Daughter of the Nine Moons
Dennis Collin
As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
about this,
1 It could be Brigette-Reason being that she comes from the time of
legends and might have been born at that time to Noble blood.
2 Nine moons could mean nine life times which we all know that Brigette
was spun out many times by the wheel.
3 There seems to be more interaction between Mat and her as of late
Urdlen of Razor Park
Dennis Collin wrote:
>
> As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
> about this,
>Sorry, but DotNM has been referred to several times, and she's Seanchan.
Urdlen the beggar
Tim Margheim
In article <325DD9...@cyberbeach.net>, pug...@cyberbeach.net wrote:
>As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
>about this,
>legends and might have been born at that time to Noble blood.
>2 Nine moons could mean nine life times which we all know that Brigette
>was spun out many times by the wheel.
>3 There seems to be more interaction between Mat and her as of late
The Daughter of the Nine Moons is a Seanchan title. It's been used. they've
talked of the Court of the Nine Moons.
Therava
The Argonaut
Dennis Collin <pug...@cyberbeach.net> wrote:
>As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
>about this,
>1 It could be Brigette-Reason being that she comes from the time of
>legends and might have been born at that time to Noble blood.
>2 Nine moons could mean nine life times which we all know that Brigette
>was spun out many times by the wheel.
>3 There seems to be more interaction between Mat and her as of late
Unless Birgitte has anything to do with the Seanchan ( which I find
unlikely) she is not the Daughter of the Nine Moons. If you have
noticed the Royal Court of the Seanchan is also refered to as the
Court of the Nine Moons. We also know of the Seanchan Empress and
that she has a daughter (princess) which she favors for succession.
It is my assumption that this princess is the DotNM. Another
indication that the DotNM is Seanchan is when Mat makes a comment in
an inn in Ebou-Dar about her and is overheard by a man who is startled
for a moment. We see this same man later on outside the city saying
that nothing can save Ebou-Dar. Sortly after the Seanchan take over
the city and Mat is left under some debris unconcious (End of CoS).
So what follows... well... the Seanchan find Mat and then nature takes
it's course. :)
As for the interaction between Mat and Brigette, we note that Mat
himself ponders about this and Brigette is not a woman he is
interested in a sexual way, but rather she is a friend he can speak
freely to since she knows his secret and vice versa....
*****************************************
-Jason C. Eliopoulos
Stevens Institute of Technology
Email: jeli...@attila.stevens-tech.edu
or http://menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu/~jeliopou
*************************************************
Sarah Keast
Dennis Collin wrote:
> 1 It could be Brigette-Reason being that she comes from the time of
What is this 'Brigette" epdemic? Three times in two weeks. Was it the
same person everytime or different people. I've lost track
Sarah
Michael Kozlowski
In article <325F04...@artsci.wustl.edu>,
Sarah Keast <ssk...@artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
>What is this 'Brigette" epdemic? Three times in two weeks. Was it the
>same person everytime or different people. I've lost track
Oh, just wait. Soon, you won't even be fazed by "Moraine," "Matt," or "my
bad."
-Mike "not a frustrated schoolteacher, despite all appearances" K.
--
Michael Kozlowski
President, International Weasel Information Society
kozl...@cae.wisc.edu
http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~kozlowsk/weasel.html
Chrome Raven
In article <325DD9...@cyberbeach.net>, pug...@cyberbeach.net says...
> As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
> about this,
> 2 Nine moons could mean nine life times which we all know that Brigette
> was spun out many times by the wheel.
> 3 There seems to be more interaction between Mat and her as of late
>
There is no question who she is, she is the Seanchan
Emperess(sp?)...Reason being - remember when Mat and Nynaeve and all them
got into Ebou Dar and he mentioned something about the Daughter? And one
guy he was playing dice with had a slurred accent? After Mat said this,
he promptly left?
-Laterz
Chrome
Malka Susswein
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Dennis Collin wrote:
> As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
> about this,
> 1 It could be Brigette-Reason being that she comes from the time of
> legends and might have been born at that time to Noble blood.
No way. I remember Brigitte saying that she's never born of noble blood. I
can't tell you exactly where because I haven't reached Brigitte in my
rereading yet, but I remember she said it because I found it interesting
at the time.
> 2 Nine moons could mean nine life times which we all know that Brigette
> was spun out many times by the wheel.
> 3 There seems to be more interaction between Mat and her as of late
Mat is NOT Cain! Cain's UGLY!
Malka.
(I've got to get back to work on my paper!)
Steven Hillage
The Argonaut wrote:
>
> Dennis Collin <pug...@cyberbeach.net> wrote:
>
> >As mentioned in CoS FAQ Who is this DotNM, I have a far fetched theory
> >about this,
> >1 It could be Brigette-Reason being that she comes from the time of
> >legends and might have been born at that time to Noble blood.
> >was spun out many times by the wheel.
> >3 There seems to be more interaction between Mat and her as of late
>
> unlikely) she is not the Daughter of the Nine Moons. If you have
> noticed the Royal Court of the Seanchan is also refered to as the
> Court of the Nine Moons. We also know of the Seanchan Empress and
> that she has a daughter (princess) which she favors for succession.
> It is my assumption that this princess is the DotNM. Another
> indication that the DotNM is Seanchan is when Mat makes a comment in
> an inn in Ebou-Dar about her and is overheard by a man who is startled
> for a moment. We see this same man later on outside the city saying
> that nothing can save Ebou-Dar. Sortly after the Seanchan take over
> the city and Mat is left under some debris unconcious (End of CoS).
>
> So what follows... well... the Seanchan find Mat and then nature takes
> it's course. :)
>
> As for the interaction between Mat and Brigette, we note that Mat
> himself ponders about this and Brigette is not a woman he is
> interested in a sexual way, but rather she is a friend he can speak
> freely to since she knows his secret and vice versa....
>
I tend to agree with most of what Jason says (except her name is spelt
"Birgitte" in my copies of WoT).
I believe that Mat will be brought before Suroth with his Ashandarei,
fox medallion, recently bought ring, memories of being one of Artur
Hawkwing's generals and all round Ta'veren ability. The Seachan will
see him as a worthy consort for tDotNM (Seanchan princess) and will
either take him back to Seander or marry her off to him in Hawkwing's
land. Mat may / may not : lose an eye, find Moiraine, forget he's
TwoRiversfolk or bring the Seanchan over to Rand's side as well!
Carl Petrucci
Daughter of the nine moons is the emporess's child in seanchan :) that is
waht i picked up in my rereads if u remember it says the tower of the nine
moons i think Egeanin says it or it is said to her :)
Shawn Gabert
Daughter of the Nine Moons is someone in the Seanchan I seem to recall
that is either the Empress or the Empress' first daughter. This is
discussed in CoS. And at the end of LoC.
Saurabh Asthana
Speculation concerning the true nature of the DotNM does not yet allow
one to make any assumptions as to her identity. Add to this the fact
that Tuon, the daughter you mention, is spoken about for only a few
lines, and is in no way EVER connected even remotely with the DotNM
makes it impossible for us to make such assumptions
I won't comment on your atrocious spelling and grammar, because that
would be just plain --- ah, fuck it. Learn to spell, and don't use
run-on sentences. Use periods. Capitilize occaisonally. You're not e
e cummings. Don't say "u" instead of "you." And don't throw in :)'s
where they don't belong. They don't substitute for periods. In short,
take an English course, and QUICKLY.
HTH.
The Skink
lsu...@hotmail.com
Don't be such an arsehole, Skink.
The Empress' daughter is almost certainly Mat's future wife. It makes solutions possible
for a number of loose plot threads, and not just those concerning Mat's wife.
Consider:
1) The court of the current Seanchan Empress is The Court of the Nine Moons.
2) The Empress has a daughter whom she favours as her successor.
3) Mat is currently incapacitated in a city that has just been over-run by Seanchan forces.
4) Jordan needs a way to bring the Seanchan behind Rand. What better way than for
Rand's closest friend to marry the heir to the Seanchan throne? Incidentally, I think Mat's
presence in Seanchan will spark actions leading to the current Empress' death, so that her
daughter (Mat's wife) will take the throne.
You say that the Empress' daughter has been "in no way EVER connected even remotely
with DotNM."
Have you actually read Jordan's books? There are myriad references to The Court of The
Nine Moons being the Seanchan royal court. Egeanin, Turak, Suroth, the S'redit (Sp?)
trainer in Luca's menagerie: all these people have referred to it. To say that the *daughter*
of the ruler of the *Court of The Nine Moons* can have not even the remotest connection
to someone called The Daughter of the Nine Moons is a bit fanciful...
And don't attack people just because they don't write English very well. We all make
spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes when typing. It's what people are trying to
say that's important, not how eloquently they say it.
Incidentally, I found seven grammatical errors in your rant against that poor guy who was
just trying to make a contribution to our debate. Live in a glass house, do you?
Nathaniel Scheckler
In article <326D15...@MIT.EDU> Saurabh Asthana, mor...@MIT.EDU
writes:
>Capitilize occaisonally
I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but you misspelled both
"capitalize" and "occasionally." Right in the middle of your own
spelling/punctuation flame, too. HTH.
Nathaniel Scheckler
Saurabh Asthana
Nathaniel Scheckler wrote:
> I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but you misspelled both
> "capitalize" and "occasionally." Right in the middle of your own
> spelling/punctuation flame, too. HTH.
> Nathaniel Scheckler
Fuck!
Stupid poetic justice!
The Skink
Jacob Sewell
And yea, on Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:24:34 GMT, the mighty one, whom
men call "pm...@zip.com.au (Paul Mach)" thus spake:
>Malka Susswein <mal...@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote:
>>Mat is NOT Cain! Cain's UGLY!
>
>So you're saying Mat's good looking?
>
Wouldn't he have to be? All those tavern maids must have
_something_ to lure them in.
Jacob Sewell -- Chancellor of the Exchequer for Palmer House
jase...@midway.uchicago.edu cse...@nckcn.com (summer)
http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/jasewell/
"Palmer: the House of World Domination. Resistance is feudal."
Paul Mach
So you're saying Mat's good looking?
Paul Mach
If you're ever unhappy, just change to FUNDAMENTALISM!
If you're ever unhappy, just change to FUNDAMENTALISM!
Sean Kelly
In article <326D15...@MIT.EDU>, Saurabh Asthana <mor...@MIT.EDU> wrote:
>Carl Petrucci wrote:
>>
>> Daughter of the nine moons is the emporess's child in seanchan :) that is
>> waht i picked up in my rereads if u remember it says the tower of the nine
>> moons i think Egeanin says it or it is said to her :)
>
>
>Speculation concerning the true nature of the DotNM does not yet allow
>one to make any assumptions as to her identity. Add to this the fact
>that Tuon, the daughter you mention, is spoken about for only a few
>lines, and is in no way EVER connected even remotely with the DotNM
>makes it impossible for us to make such assumptions
It's true that Tuon is never directly tied to the title "Daughter of the Nine
Moons," but is that really necessary? There are numerous references to the
DNM and the Court of the Nine Moons which are more than sufficient grounds for
theorizing that the DNM is the Seanchan princess. If you'll remember, in the
end of Lord of Chaos (the one before Crown of Swords?) Mat's in a tavern and
he says something about the DNM. One of the other people in the tavern chokes
at hearing the title, and later makes a side comment implicating that it's the
princess (he's a Seanchan himself). There are a number of other references to
the Court of the Nine Moons in earlier books also. If you want even more
evidence of Mat's connection with the Seanchan, one of the prophecies ties him
to the Tower of the Ravens (or whatever it's called), or having ravens on his
shoulders. Besides, with his memories (some of which are even of Artur
Hawking personally) he's an ideal candidate to handle the Seanchan problem.
Who knows, if things work out right they may even hail him as some sort of
Important Guy.
-Sean
Terry Wallace
Sean Kelly wrote:
:
: In article <326D15...@MIT.EDU>, Saurabh Asthana <mor...@MIT.EDU>
This may be a wacky theory but I think this Daughter of the Nine Moons
is the half of the world Mat must sacrifice to save the other half of
the world.
Terry Wallace
Saurabh Asthana
> -Sean
I am quite familiar with the reference you make; however, i am a little
uncertain over how you have interpreted it. There is indeed a court of
the nine moons --- all this tells us is that the DotNM is a Seanchan
figure. Clearly this Seanchan figure will tie the Seanch to Rand
through Mat. However, we don't know more than this. What i'm
complaining about is the theory (the wholly unfounded theory) that Tuon
is the DotNM. From what the Seanchan spy in LoC says,
"Perhaps the DotNM would return at last and lead them to victory."
(or something pretty close) I conclude that the DotNM is a prophesied
figure on par with Rand, who will lead the Seanchan in their Corenne,
but is not a person who either the Seanchan or the Randlanders have
identified yet.
The Skink
Malka Susswein
On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Saurabh Asthana wrote:
> I am quite familiar with the reference you make; however, i am a little
> uncertain over how you have interpreted it. There is indeed a court of
> the nine moons --- all this tells us is that the DotNM is a Seanchan
> figure. Clearly this Seanchan figure will tie the Seanch to Rand
> through Mat. However, we don't know more than this. What i'm
> complaining about is the theory (the wholly unfounded theory) that Tuon
> is the DotNM. From what the Seanchan spy in LoC says,
>
> "Perhaps the DotNM would return at last and lead them to victory."
>
> (or something pretty close) I conclude that the DotNM is a prophesied
> figure on par with Rand, who will lead the Seanchan in their Corenne,
> but is not a person who either the Seanchan or the Randlanders have
> identified yet.
>
> The Skink
Interesting. I never thought of it that way, but now that you point it out
it does look like the spy was talking about a figure prophesized about,
and not an actual known person. Maybe there is a prophesy that the DotNM
would return them to Artur Hawkwings lands. They wouldn't know who tDotNM
would be, and they'd probably assume that "returning them" would mean they
would conquer the mainland.
BTW, this doesn't mean that tDotNM can't be Tuon.
Malka.
Troy N. Terry
Doesn't Lanfear's banner have a moon and nine stars?
Hmm... Not conclusive, but suggestive.
Yours,
T. Terry
Richard M. Boye'
>
> There may be another candidate for the title of tDotNM besides Tuon,
> see FoH, A Short Spear, p477 pb : "...I myself have put both a
> daughter and a son of the Empress ... to the question ..."
>
> If this unfavoured daughter survived that questioning & its
> consequences she may be part of the Return (Correne) and may lead the
> _Ever Victorious Army_ to retake the lands of Hawkwing.
Look, aside from the odious practices of a'dam, sul'dam and damane,
da'cova, the Seanchan do not seem to be truly evil people.
They have notions of loyalty and justice, and run of the mill Seanchan
like Cerandin & Egeanin seem to think that the Empress (may she live
forever) is a beneficent and nurturing person, and she has a benevolent
regime.
Sure they have a caste structure and apalling human rights violations,
but they are not minions of the DO.
The problem with our perceptions of them is that the ones we haveseen
are led by a Darkriend. I wouldn't want to live in a Seanchan regime
but, hey...
> Further, if rebellious children are common in Seanchan royalty there
> may be other daughters amenable to Mat's wiles.
>
> IIRC Turak (Seanchan Lord & blademaster killed in Falme) was 12th in
> line to the throne but didn't feel secure enough to consider blowing
> the Horn of Valere hence presenting a challenge to the Empress' power.
> He appeared to be Suroth's superior at that time.
Turak was Suroth's superior. He died leaving the Corenne in the hands of
Suroth.
> Finally it may be an honorific for the woman (probably one of the
> Blood anyway) appointed by the Empress to undertake the Correne and is
> Suroth's new superior but she was on the Sea Folk isles directing
> Suroth's attacks from behind.
I still doubt it. I think it's a title akin to "Prince of Wales," a
title referring to a designated successor.
ObAside: Has there ever been a Princess of Wales, i.e designated
daughter and heir who was not married to the Prince of Wales? Was
Elizabeth II designated Princess of Wales while her father was still
alive or is saved strictly for male heirs? Emma?
> I favour the possibility that tDotNM is Tuon & that she is (or soon
> will be) Returning to Randland to lead the _Ever Victorious Army_ to
> attempt the retaking of Hawkwing's lands.
I buy this. But my only problem is can you really imagine Mat marrying a
chick with a mohawk?
(I predict right now, that when we do meet Mat's future bride she will
have really pale blonde hair.)
Later,
Rich
--
Richard M. Boyé * wa...@webspan.net
* Waldo's Wheel Of Time Art Gallery *
** http://pages.prodigy.com/RWaldo **
Steven Hillage
Further, if rebellious children are common in Seanchan royalty there
may be other daughters amenable to Mat's wiles.
IIRC Turak (Seanchan Lord & blademaster killed in Falme) was 12th in
line to the throne but didn't feel secure enough to consider blowing
the Horn of Valere hence presenting a challenge to the Empress' power.
He appeared to be Suroth's superior at that time.
Finally it may be an honorific for the woman (probably one of the
Blood anyway) appointed by the Empress to undertake the Correne and is
Suroth's new superior but she was on the Sea Folk isles directing
Suroth's attacks from behind.
I favour the possibility that tDotNM is Tuon & that she is (or soon
will be) Returning to Randland to lead the _Ever Victorious Army_ to
attempt the retaking of Hawkwing's lands.
--
Steven Hillage | "Are we seeking the truth about man that sets all
| men free? Or are the truths we discover only making
| some men more free and powerful, while others become
| more vulnerable to manipulation" Sidney Jourard
Angela Furry
"Troy N. Terry" <tr...@eventus.com> wrote:
>Malka Susswein wrote:
>> BTW, this doesn't mean that tDotNM can't be Tuon.
>Doesn't Lanfear's banner have a moon and nine stars?
>Hmm... Not conclusive, but suggestive.
You're right. It's not conclusive. Next question?
Angela Furry
Malka Susswein
On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Troy N. Terry wrote:
> Malka Susswein wrote:
> > Interesting. I never thought of it that way, but now that you point it out
> > itdoes look like the spy was talking about a figure prophesized about,
> > and not an actual known person. Maybe there is a prophesy that the DotNM
> > would return them to Artur Hawkwings lands. They wouldn't know who tDotNM
> > would be, and they'd probablyassume that "returning them" would mean they
> > would conquer the mainland.
> >
> > BTW, this doesn't mean that tDotNM can't be Tuon.
>
> Doesn't Lanfear's banner have a moon and nine stars?
> Hmm... Not conclusive, but suggestive.
Eeeek! Mat marrying LANFEAR?!
Malka.
Emma Pease
In <327C19...@webspan.net> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> writes:
[on daughter of the nine moons]
>I still doubt it. I think it's a title akin to "Prince of Wales," a
>title referring to a designated successor.
>ObAside: Has there ever been a Princess of Wales, i.e designated
>daughter and heir who was not married to the Prince of Wales? Was
>Elizabeth II designated Princess of Wales while her father was still
>alive or is saved strictly for male heirs? Emma?
I don't think so; by the very nature of the rules a woman can never be
more than heir presumptive not heir apparent and the Prince of Wales
is a title bestowed (not automatically given) upon the heir apparent
(Prince Charles didn't get it until he was 21). Elizabeth II wasn't
and most other women who have inherited the English throne were not
daughters of the previous monarch (Mary I and Elizabeth I were sisters
of the previous monarch, Mary II was daughter but had a living brother
and came to the throne by revolution, Anne inherited from her
brother-in-law/cousin [though she was heir apparent {not presumptive}
upon the death her sister Mary], Victoria from her uncle). Charlotte
only legitimate child of George IV was in direct line to the throne
but died (1817) before her father came to the throne (1820). Henry I
would probably have made his daughter Matilda/Maud Princess of Wales
but the title didn't exist at the time (or rather it did but was held
by an actual Welshman and independent of the English crown); he did
make her his official heir after the death of his only legitimate son
in the sinking of the white ship (it would also have been a step down
as she was entitled to be called Empress by virtue of her late husband
a Holy Roman Emperor).
Princess Royal is a courtesy title sometimes bestowed by the monarch
upon his or her eldest daughter.
Emma
ps. As far as Daughter of the Nine Moons, unless the Empress has made
a decision in the last year or so I don't think it is the title of the
official heir.
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ em...@csli.stanford.edu Die Luft der Freiheit weht
Rick Moen
Richard M. Boye' (wa...@webspan.net) wrote:
: ObAside: Has there ever been a Princess of Wales, i.e designated
: daughter and heir who was not married to the Prince of Wales? Was
: Elizabeth II designated Princess of Wales while her father was still
: alive or is saved strictly for male heirs? Emma?
Newsreels from the - what, 1952? -- coronation indeed referred to Liz Deux
as the Princess of Wales.
--
Cheers, Long ago, there lived a creature with a
Rick Moen voice like a vacuum cleaner. We know little
ri...@hugin.imat.com about it, but we do know that it ate cats.
Constance
Emma Pease wrote:
>
> In <327C19...@webspan.net> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> writes:
>
> [on daughter of the nine moons]
>
> >title referring to a designated successor.
>
> >ObAside: Has there ever been a Princess of Wales, i.e designated
> >daughter and heir who was not married to the Prince of Wales? Was
> >Elizabeth II designated Princess of Wales while her father was still
> >alive or is saved strictly for male heirs? Emma?
>
> more than heir presumptive not heir apparent and the Prince of Wales
> is a title bestowed (not automatically given) upon the heir apparent
> (Prince Charles didn't get it until he was 21).
> Elizabeth II wasn't and most other women >who have inherited the English throne were not
> daughters of the previous monarch
<pardon the massive snip of monarchy stuff>
I wonder if I'm the only one who mis-understood (at first) what you
meant here? I'm sure you don't mean to imply that Elizabeth did not
inherit the throne from her father, King George VI; but that she was not
the heiress apparent(as opposed to heriess presumptive).
Just to clarify...you obviously know your stuff.
--
Constance
"There still he stood far into the night, hearing only the sigh and
murmur of the waves on the shores of Middle-Earth, and the sound of them
sank deep into his heart." -- The Return of the King, LoTR
CClagett
In article <327675...@imc220.med.navy.mil>, Terry Wallace
<dsc...@imc220.med.navy.mil> writes:
>
>This may be a wacky theory but I think this Daughter of the Nine Moons
>is the half of the world Mat must sacrifice to save the other half of
>the world.
>
>
no, thats his eye.
Tshen
CClagett (ccla...@aol.com) wrote:
: <dsc...@imc220.med.navy.mil> writes:
: >This may be a wacky theory but I think this Daughter of the Nine Moons
: >is the half of the world Mat must sacrifice to save the other half of
: >the world.
: no, thats his eye.
The Daughter of the Nine Moons is _Mat's eye_?!!?!???!??
Why of course!
Don't know why we didn't think of that before!
IT"S ALL SO OBVIOUSD TO ME NOW!!@Q!!!!
I WIL NOW DEVOTE THE RESTOF TMY BODDY TO SCIENCE!!!!!!
thANK YOU ALL AND OH GOD MOMMY THE PAIN THA PAIN THE PAIIINNNNNNNNNNNNN
--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
Steven Hillage
x-no-archive : yes> : ObAside: Has there ever been a Princess of Wales, i.e designated
> : daughter and heir who was not married to the Prince of Wales? Was
> : Elizabeth II designated Princess of Wales while her father was still
> : alive or is saved strictly for male heirs? Emma?
>
> English system of inheritance, a daughter can never be better than an
> heir presumptive.
IIRC this has been recently changed by Mr & Mrs Windsor. They've
decided that in the future (from possible Charles III onwards) the
eldest child regardless of gender will be the heir apparent but I'm
not sure if that means they'd've an unmarried Princess of Wales or
cook up some new title.
BTW : Current first 13 Chosen are : Chucka (Betrayer of Di),
Willie-boy, 'Enry, Randy Andy (note Anhorse is older), Be-tryse,
U-jean, Ready Eddie, Anhorse, Beata Phillips, Zero Filipz, Maggie,
Devid Strongarm, and Sera Chattoff. These names are still used to
frighten children asleep by TV.
So if Willie-boy makes it then his eldest child will become the heir
apparent regardles of hir (sic) gender.
--
Steven Hillage | "We would boldly be working on it ..."
| Motto of the Institute for Infinitive
| Splitters and Participle Accelerators
Steven Hillage
x-no-archive : yes
Troy N. Terry wrote:
> Doesn't Lanfear's banner have a moon and nine stars?
I can't remember that reference but her chapter icon shows a crescent
moon with 5 stars and she's known as the _Daughter of the Night_. I
don't think she's a serious contender for DotNM as well.
My money is still on a Seanchan Princess (not necessarily _second,
favoured daughter_ : Tuon) who Mat'll meet in book 8.
--
Steven Hillage | "Can we tolerate the manipulations
| that blur the gap between animal and man?"
| Gerald Leach
Steven Springer
Now, WAIT a sec, here. Lanfear is not the Daughter of the Nine Moons.
If you'd check the chapters with the Seanchan, it's mentioned that the
captain left behind (I don't remember her name, but I believe that it's
the one that Nyn, Eg, and Elayne meet) serves the Court of the Nine
Moons. At least, I'm pretty sure- could someone verify me on this one?
Until the Wheel turns again, Steve
Malka Susswein
On 6 Nov 1996, Tshen wrote:
> CClagett (ccla...@aol.com) wrote:
> : <dsc...@imc220.med.navy.mil> writes:
> : >This may be a wacky theory but I think this Daughter of the Nine Moons
> : >is the half of the world Mat must sacrifice to save the other half of
> : >the world.
> : no, thats his eye.
>
> The Daughter of the Nine Moons is _Mat's eye_?!!?!???!??
>
> Why of course!
>
> Don't know why we didn't think of that before!
>
> IT"S ALL SO OBVIOUSD TO ME NOW!!@Q!!!!
>
> I WIL NOW DEVOTE THE RESTOF TMY BODDY TO SCIENCE!!!!!!
>
> thANK YOU ALL ANDOH GOD MOMMY THE PAIN THA PAIN THE PAIIINNNNNNNNNNNNN
>
> --Tshen
> Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
ROTFLOL!
Malka.
(It's almost 1:00 in the morning. I should get to bed)
Eduard Ralph
ske...@interramp.com (Sean Kelly) wrote:
>In article <326D15...@MIT.EDU>, Saurabh Asthana <mor...@MIT.EDU> wrote:
>>Carl Petrucci wrote:
>>>
>>> Daughter of the nine moons is the emporess's child in seanchan :) that is
>>> waht i picked up in my rereads if u remember it says the tower of the nine
>>> moons i think Egeanin says it or it is said to her :)
>>
>>
>>Speculation concerning the true nature of the DotNM does not yet allow
>>one to make any assumptions as to her identity. Add to this the fact
>>that Tuon, the daughter you mention, is spoken about for only a few
>>lines, and is in no way EVER connected even remotely with the DotNM
>>makes it impossible for us to make such assumptions
>It's true that Tuon is never directly tied to the title "Daughter of the Nine
>Moons," but is that really necessary? There are numerous references to the
>DNM and the Court of the Nine Moons which are more than sufficient grounds for
>theorizing that the DNM is the Seanchan princess. If you'll remember, in the
>end of Lord of Chaos (the one before Crown of Swords?) Mat's in a tavern and
>he says something about the DNM. One of the other people in the tavern chokes
>at hearing the title, and later makes a side comment implicating that it's the
>princess (he's a Seanchan himself). There are a number of other references to
>the Court of the Nine Moons in earlier books also. If you want even more
>evidence of Mat's connection with the Seanchan, one of the prophecies ties him
>to the Tower of the Ravens (or whatever it's called), or having ravens on his
>shoulders. Besides, with his memories (some of which are even of Artur
>Hawking personally) he's an ideal candidate to handle the Seanchan problem.
>Who knows, if things work out right they may even hail him as some sort of
>Important Guy.
If you look back even a little further, you find refrences of Turok,
the guy in Falme who mucked it up, who talks about the
succession...read it, I think he calls her the Daughter or so...
ru...@rediris.es
Right, moreover, it's in the FAQ. There are other clues, like the ravens
in Mat's spear; engraved ravens are a Seanchan property mark, or something
like that if I remember right.
Troy N. Terry
Steven Hillage wrote:
>
> x-no-archive : yes
> Troy N. Terry wrote:
>
> > Doesn't Lanfear's banner have a moon and nine stars?
>
> I can't remember that reference but her chapter icon shows a crescent
> moon with 5 stars and she's known as the _Daughter of the Night_. I
> don't think she's a serious contender for DotNM as well.
>
> My money is still on a Seanchan Princess (not necessarily _second,
> favoured daughter_ : Tuon) who Mat'll meet in book 8.
>
You're probably right on this one... I doubt that
Lanfear is the DotNM. However, the title itself may
come from some warped memory of her, if the
Seanchan are as Forsaken-influenced as people say.
Yours,
T. Terry
Chris Cookson
> Emma Pease wrote:
> >
> > In <327C19...@webspan.net> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net>
writes:
> >
> > [on daughter of the nine moons]
> >
> > >I still doubt it. I think it's a title akin to "Prince of Wales," a
> > >title referring to a designated successor.
> >
> > >ObAside: Has there ever been a Princess of Wales, i.e designated
> > >daughter and heir who was not married to the Prince of Wales? Was
> > >Elizabeth II designated Princess of Wales while her father was still
> > >alive or is saved strictly for male heirs? Emma?
> >
> > I don't think so; by the very nature of the rules a woman can never be
> > more than heir presumptive not heir apparent and the Prince of Wales
> > is a title bestowed (not automatically given) upon the heir apparent
> > (Prince Charles didn't get it until he was 21).
>
> > Elizabeth II wasn't and most other women >who have inherited the
English throne were not
> > daughters of the previous monarch
> <pardon the massive snip of monarchy stuff>
I believe Mary Tudor was designated Princess of Wales at age sixteen or
seventeen. This was of course prior to Henry VIII's annulment and Mary's
subsequent reduction in rank to the Lady Mary.
Cassandra Cookson
Richard M. Boye'
Chris Cookson wrote:
>
> >
> > > Elizabeth II wasn't and most other women >who have inherited the
> English throne were not
> > > daughters of the previous monarch
> > <pardon the massive snip of monarchy stuff>
>
> I believe Mary Tudor was designated Princess of Wales at age sixteen or
> seventeen. This was of course prior to Henry VIII's annulment and Mary's
> subsequent reduction in rank to the Lady Mary.
Yep, you're right. I happened to have just looked this up the other day
(I was actually looking for a portarit of Mary...you don't need to know
why) and in 1525, Mary was made Princess of Wales.
Good call Cassandra.
Saurabh Asthana
Eduard Ralph wrote:
> If you look back even a little further, you find refrences of Turok,
> the guy in Falme who mucked it up, who talks about the
> succession...read it, I think he calls her the Daughter or so...
No, Turok calls her the second daughter of the empress, and the current
favorite for succession. He never so much as mentions the DotNM.
ObAside: Can you really blame Falme on Turok? He was dead before the
true debacle started. If anything, it's Rand's fault.
The Skink
geyy...@aol.com
The palace or hall of the nine moons is Seanchan (ref don't remember which
book the daughter is obviously the Seanchan queen or princess or something
Jason Lee
geyy...@aol.com wrote:
>
> The palace or hall of the nine moons is Seanchan (ref don't remember which
> book the daughter is obviously the Seanchan queen or princess or something
"Check out the Big Brain on Brad!!!!! You're a smart motherfucker!"
You're right. F A Q
Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to an old
theory.
Jason Lee
My Opinions are my own, and I don't give a rat's ass about OU's.
ObDisclaimers: Are they really necessary for legal reasons?
Karl-Johan Noren
In article <328C4B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
I think it's time for using the SBRF now...
STANDARDIZED RASFWRJ BONEHEAD REPLY FORM V1.3
(adapted from the STANDARDIZED BONEHEAD REPLY FORM by Joe Shaw)
(integrating some of Karl-Johan Noren's rogue modifications to V1.0)
(totally unedited, in order to discomply with all UseNet bandwidth regulations)
I took exception to your recent post to rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan.
It was (check all that apply):
___ lame.
_X_ stupid.
___ boring.
___ obvious killfile fodder.
_X_ obvious retromoderation fodder.
_X_ much longer than any worthwhile thought of which you may be capable.
___ a (technical term ahead) bazillion lines long.
_X_ without question the most useless thing I have ever seen
___ crossposted to alt.fan.robert-jordan
___ unnecessarily crossposted to rec.arts.sf.written
___ and you didn't put "JORDAN:" in the subject line.
Your attention is drawn to the fact that:
_X_ This is a *family* newsgroup.
___ The answer to your question is in a FAQ, specifically:
(Mark only if above checked, and similarly hereafter)
___ in the rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan FAQ, Section _._.
___ in the Wheel of Time FAQ, Section __.___.
___ in the Usenet FAQ.
_X_ what you posted/said has been done before.
_X_ And is in the rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan FAQ.
_X_ And is in the Wheel of Time FAQ.
_X_ Not only that, it was also done better the last time.
___ By you.
___ what you posted cannot possibly be.
___ Because of this reference: ________________________________.
(Book, chapter, page ref.)
_X_ you told someone to read the FAQ and did not tell them where to find it.
___ you told someone to read the Wheel of Time FAQ when it would spoil them.
_X_ your post/mail was a pathetic imitation of _____Kate Nepveu_____.
(net.personality)
___ your post/mail originated from (check all that apply)
___ msn.com
___ America Online.
___ ix.netcom.com
___ FidoNet.
___ Delphi.
___ Compu$erve.
___ Prodigy.
___ a BBS.
___ Texas.
___ your post contained MIME codes
___ your post/mail was intended to be email/a post.
___ and was both posted and emailed.
___ using Pine.
___ using Mozilla.
___ That means Netscape, in case you didn't know.
___ your post/mail was sent multiple (____) times.
___ with Mozilla
___ That means Netscape, in case you didn't know.
___ your post referred to the newsgroup as a Folder, Board, BBoard, BBS,
Notesfile, or Web Page.
_X_ you are in violation of RFC 1855, Section(s) _____3.1.1_____.
THE FINE FOR THIS IS $50. Please remit immediately to:
RASFWRJ Cabal
c/o Usenet Central Administration
916 W. Trinity Ave. #10
Durham, NC 27701
or your posting privileges will be canceled.
___ you posted a metaphor without a metaphor license.
THE FINE FOR THIS IS $50. Please remit immediately to:
RASFWRJ Cabal
c/o Usenet Central Administration
916 W. Trinity Ave. #10
Durham, NC 27701
or your posting privileges will be canceled.
___ your post contained commercial advertising.
THE FINE FOR THIS IS $100. Please remit immediately to:
RASFWRJ Cabal
c/o Usenet Central Administration
916 W. Trinity Ave. #10
Durham, NC 27701
or your posting privileges will be canceled.
___ you trolled a newsgroup veteran at the expense of an innocent newbie.
THE FINE FOR THIS IS $_______. Please remit immediately to:
RASFWRJ Cabal
c/o Usenet Central Administration
916 W. Trinity Ave. #10
Durham, NC 27701
or your posting privileges will be canceled.
___ The amount specified is because you are a repeat offender.
___ The punishment for your next offense will be _____________________.
___ your post/letter contained numerous spelling errors.
___ and you are not halasz.
___ your post/letter contained multiple grammatical errors.
___ and you are not an "innorant furinner"
___ YOUR POST CONTAINED EXCESSIVE CAPITALIZATION AND/OR PUNCTUATION!!!!!
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___ And you are not E. E. Cummings.
___ your post/letter was an obvious forgery.
___ It was done clumsily.
___ your login name or signature name is from the Wheel of Time.
___ misspelled
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___ misspelled
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___ Both are stupid.
___ your attempt at a middle name fell flat.
___ Painfully.
___ you pointed out the fact that you are a newbie.
___ when it was painfully obvious anyway.
___ you quoted an article/letter in followup and failed to attribute the
quoted text.
___ you quoted an article/letter in followup and added no new text.
___ you quoted an article in followup and only added one line of new text
___ that said "Me, too!!!"
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___ and your name is not Aaron Bergman.
___ you quoted an article/letter in followup and only added ___ lines of text.
___ you posted a followup to an article but gave no context for your remarks.
___ and the Message-Id: of the post you replied to wasn't even in the
References: header.
___ and you changed the subject line as well.
___ you called David Eddings "the penultimate author."
___ you called Erica Sadun a "non-entity".
___ you called Hawk "cutie" or "babe".
_X_ you flamed a newbie for mistakes they did not make.
___ you flamed someone who has been around far longer than you.
___ you flamed someone who is far more intelligent and witty than you.
___ you flamed someone who is a member of the Cabal [There Is No Cabal].
___ your post was so stupid it could almost be trolling.
___ But it's really too stupid even for that.
___ and your name is not Timothy Bruening.
___ your lines are 80 columns wide or wider.
___ your software inserted newlines that made every other line
less than
thirty characters in length.
___ you failed to check the "Followups-To:" line.
___ you have no .sig .
___ your .sig is longer than four lines.
___ And your newsreader truncated it.
_X_ your .sig is ridiculous because (check all that apply):
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___ it's longer than your included text.
___ it's longer than the entire rest of your post.
___ it approacheth Kibo's in length.
(Mark only if one of above four also)
___ and includes ____ lines of nothing but whitespace.
___ you listed ___ snail mail address(es).
___ and a nine-digit ZIP code.
___ you listed ___ phone numbers for people to use in prank calls.
___ and a fax number for people to use in prank faxes.
_X_ you included a stupid disclaimer.
_X_ your pathetic attempt at being witty in the disclaimer failed.
_X_ Miserably.
___ you included a "The <something>est man/woman on the Net." quote.
___ and your name is not John S. Novak III.
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(Mark all that apply)
___ a stupid self-quote.
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___ whose membership is mutually exclusive.
___ a stupid quote from
(Mark all that apply)
___ Verin
___ Lini
___ A movie that nobody but you ever watched.
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___ With English Translation for the Old Tongue impaired.
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___ And your name is not Judy Ghirardelli.
(Mark only if one of above eleven also)
___ and claimed it was your own quote.
___ a reference to Beavis & Butthead.
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___ lame ASCII fonts
___ lame ASCII graphic(s) (Choose all that apply):
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___ And you included the dots that aren't there.
___ A Dragon's Fang (only).
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worthwhile INFORMATION to LEAK out into USENET!!
Furthermore:
_X_ You have greatly misunderstood the purpose of
rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan
_X_ You have greatly misunderstood the purpose of the net.
_X_ You are a loser.
___ You must have spent your entire life in a stasis box to be this
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___ *Sniff*
___ *Snort*
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___ This has been pointed out to you before.
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(Mark all that apply)
___ Bow down and acknowledge the omniscience of the Cabal[TINC].
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___ Especially this list.
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_X_ stick to America Online and switch to Fidonet when you know what
a badger is.
___ Ask Rand, Mat or Perrin for advice about how to handle women.
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___ Lay down and not think about Roy.
___ felch yourself.
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___ stop sending email and get a life.
___ don't leave your terminal whilst still logged in.
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___ consume excrement and thus expire.
___ balefire yourself.
Additional comments:
A real, good helpful FAQ-pointer should have approximately
this content:
You can get the WoT FAQ via anonymous FTP from
ftp.cc.gatech.edu/pub/people/viren/jordan/Current.FAQ
or via WWW at
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/ftp/people/viren/www/jordan/CoS/index.html
or by sending an empty e-mail to
(beware, since the FAQ is 450K big, it might blow your mailbox).
The rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan FAQ is available at
http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/internet/news/faq/archive/sf.robert-jordan-faq.html
or by sending an empty e-mail to
It is also archived at the usual FAQ archiving services.
(Blank forms may be freely obtained by members of the Cabal [TINC] by
sending a self-addressed, stamped email message in reply to this post.)
--
Karl-Johan Norén (Noren with acute e) -- k-j-...@dsv.su.se
http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/
- To believe people are as stupid as one believes is
stupider than one can believe
Andrea Lynn Leistra
In article <328C4B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>,
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> wrote:
>geyy...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> The palace or hall of the nine moons is Seanchan (ref don't remember which
>> book the daughter is obviously the Seanchan queen or princess or something
>You're right. F A Q
This isn't terribly helpful. If you point someone to the FAQ, give them
a pointer so they know where it is.
Like this:
It's available through anonymous FTP from
ftp.cc.gatech.edu/pub/people/viren/jordan/Current.FAQ
or via WWW at
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/ftp/people/viren/www/jordan/CoS/index.html
or by sending an empty e-mail to
jor...@bjc.carenet.org
The last option isn't a good idea unless it's the only option - the FAQ is
upwards of 400K, and might not make your mailbox happy.
You aren't expected to read it in its entirety - just grep or otherwise
search for keywords (such as Nine Moons) before posting a question or
theory to see what's been covered already.
--
Andrea Leistra http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~aleistra
-----
Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts.
Jay Pasquantonio
Karl-Johan Noren SRASFWRJBRF-ed somebody:
Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
DotNM=Seanchan Princess Theory is far from original. Why? They were not
even that harsh, and given that that theory has been posted - what? five
times this month? - they could easily have been harsher. Or was your
SRBRF trigger-finger itchy? Sure, there haven't been many SRBRFs lobbed
recently, but that is just because of October's salvo.
Really, KJ, I expected better from you.
And not everyone keeps a FAQ pointer in their shoulder-holster like you
and Kate.
--
Jay Pasquantonio
"When the shit hits the fan, I'm the one
passing out goggles and Handi-wipes."
Richard M. Boye'
Jay Pasquantonio wrote:
>
> Karl-Johan Noren SRASFWRJBRF-ed somebody:
>
> Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
> Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
> DotNM=Seanchan Princess Theory is far from original. Why? They were not
> even that harsh, and given that that theory has been posted - what? five
> times this month? - they could easily have been harsher. Or was your
> SRBRF trigger-finger itchy? Sure, there haven't been many SRBRFs lobbed
> recently, but that is just because of October's salvo.
> Really, KJ, I expected better from you.
> And not everyone keeps a FAQ pointer in their shoulder-holster like you
> and Kate.
>
I disagree.
The BotM standard reply is equally applicable in this instance.
The BotMSRF has provisions for someone who is unessecarily harsh to a
newbie, shoves the FAQ in his or her face, but doesn't tell them where
to get it.
I'd say this was a fairly judicious application of the BotMSRF.
(not for the harshness, but for the failure to point someone in the
general direction of the FAQ, after ramming it down his or her throat)
Andrea Lynn Leistra
In article <328E54...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de>,
>Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
>Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
>Really, KJ, I expected better from you.
>And not everyone keeps a FAQ pointer in their shoulder-holster like you
>and Kate.
The poster that Karl SBRF'd was pretty harsh. Posting something that's
been done before isn't grounds for a flame - it's grounds for a FAQ
pointer. Simply telling someone 'FAQ!' without giving a pointer is
useless. If you don't have a pointer, fine - then let someone who *does*
tell the person to read the FAQ.
Jay Pasquantonio
Andrea Lynn Leistra wrote:
>
> In article <328E54...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de>,
> Jay Pasquantonio <j...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de> wrote:
> >Karl-Johan Noren SRASFWRJBRF-ed somebody:
>
>>Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
>>Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
>
>>Really, KJ, I expected better from you.
>>And not everyone keeps a FAQ pointer in their shoulder-holster like
>>you and Kate.
>
>The poster that Karl SBRF'd was pretty harsh. Posting something
>that's been done before isn't grounds for a flame - it's grounds for
>a FAQ pointer. Simply telling someone 'FAQ!' without giving a
>pointer is useless. If you don't have a pointer, fine - then let
>someone who *does* tell the person to read the FAQ.
Well, some of my annoyance with that particular thread rubbed off,
there. I mean, in one thread, the same damn thing has been said, what,
fifty times? I've got them sitting in front of me right now, and I'm
boggling that someone hasn't been hit by the _whole clue tree_ before
now. Not everyone can be Tshen:
>The Daughter of the Nine Moons is _Mat's eye_?!!?!???!??
>Why of course!
>Don't know why we didn't think of that before!
>IT"S ALL SO OBVIOUSD TO ME NOW!!@Q!!!!
>I WIL NOW DEVOTE THE RESTOF TMY BODDY TO SCIENCE!!!!!!
>thANK YOU ALL AND OH GOD MOMMY THE PAIN THA PAIN THE
>PAIIINNNNNNNNNNNNN
Plus, if anyone deserved the SRBRF, it was the original poster, who was:
1. Posting from AOL (not that there's anything wrong with that),
2. Had numerous grammatical mistakes,
3. Provided no context in a response,
4. Has four similar posts that I can see, all equally FUBAR,
5. Stated an idea that was not only obvious to any semi-intelligent
organism, but had already been posted so many times within the past two
weeks that it was becoming a noobie mantra.
Note that Karl indicated in his SRBRF that the flamer was posting from
AOL, which is incorrect, he was posting from Oklahoma U. ("Surrey with
the friiiiiinge oooon tooooooooooop!"). He also checked off "you flamed
a newbie for mistakes they did not make," which is also incorrect, as
this newbie did most certainly post a total bonehead repitition of
something that has been touched on in-depth repeatedly in multiple
threads within the week, and that was a mistake. He also has the Cabal
address (TCHNA) listed at Duke University, near East Campus, while it is
well known that the Cabal offices (TCHNO) moved to a new building on
Central Campus along Anderson Street (TINCC,OAS,FTM) where the
International House (of Pancakes) used to be.
YMMV, but I didn't find Jason Lee's reply too harsh, given the above. He
quoted an obscure insult, but it wasn't direct (since this guy's
apparently not a "Brad").
True, he did yell "FAQ" without a pointer, but anyone who is really
interested in posting to this group can find any number of FAQ pointers
by just searching a few threads herein. This is especially true since
Paul Raj Khangure seems to be shooting for a merger into the K^2 entity
with his frequent FAQ pointers, making it the K^3 entity.
Finally, I would like to point out that I gave KJ a yellow card, not a
red. If he gets another yellow, then he'll have to sit out a while
(insert favorite _Slapshot_ penalty box quote here), but that isn't
likely, since Karl is usually quite civil.
Karl-Johan Noren
I'm replying to everything in one go...
Jay Pasquantonio wrote:
Karl-Johan Noren SRASFWRJBRF-ed somebody:
> Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
> Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
> DotNM=Seanchan Princess Theory is far from original.
Lappri.
I did what I did it becuase 1) Jason's reply was insulting
and condescending; 2) he didn't include one hint of
helpfulness about netiquette or the FAQ; 3) he has done
similar things before.
> Why? They were not even that harsh, and given that that theory has
> been posted - what? five times this month? - they could easily have
> been harsher. Or was your SRBRF trigger-finger itchy? Sure, there
> haven't been many SRBRFs lobbed recently, but that is just because
> of October's salvo.
I think you're alone in thinking that Jason's post was "not
even that harsh". It was a classic example of a
newbie-juvenile flaming a newbie-infant.
> Really, KJ, I expected better from you.
I've gotten two responses via e-mail, _thanking_ me for
sending out that SRBRF, as well as that neither Richard nor
Andrea seems to have any problem with it.
> And not everyone keeps a FAQ pointer in their shoulder-holster like you
> and Kate.
Even then, the Jason's response could have had at least an
attempt at helpfulness and civility.
_Refering_ to mine and Kate's posts, for instance.
In article <328E9F...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Jay Pasquantonio <j...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de> writes:
> Andrea Lynn Leistra wrote:
[ in response to Jay's original post, quoted above ]
> >The poster that Karl SBRF'd was pretty harsh. Posting something
> >that's been done before isn't grounds for a flame - it's grounds for
> >a FAQ pointer. Simply telling someone 'FAQ!' without giving a
> >pointer is useless. If you don't have a pointer, fine - then let
> >someone who *does* tell the person to read the FAQ.
>
> Well, some of my annoyance with that particular thread rubbed off,
> there. I mean, in one thread, the same damn thing has been said, what,
> fifty times? I've got them sitting in front of me right now, and I'm
> boggling that someone hasn't been hit by the _whole clue tree_ before
> now.
That's still not an excuse for not being civil. Go around
and post the relevant section of the FAQ if nothing else
helps, for instance.
> Plus, if anyone deserved the SRBRF, it was the original poster, who was:
> 1. Posting from AOL (not that there's anything wrong with that),
Spot the logical flaw.
> 2. Had numerous grammatical mistakes,
> 3. Provided no context in a response,
> 4. Has four similar posts that I can see, all equally FUBAR,
DejaNews only lists one, which is the one Jason flamed him/her
for. Not that DejaNews is perfect.
> 5. Stated an idea that was not only obvious to any semi-intelligent
> organism, but had already been posted so many times within the past two
> weeks that it was becoming a noobie mantra.
Nothing of which (except the last point) was addressed by
Jason. And his way of addressing the issue was by insults
and condescending sarcasm ("You're a smart motherfucker!";
"Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to
an old theory."), not with _any_ sort of helpful response.
> Note that Karl indicated in his SRBRF that the flamer was posting from
> AOL, which is incorrect, he was posting from Oklahoma U.
*raises eyebrows*
Go back and check again.
> ("Surrey with the friiiiiinge oooon tooooooooooop!").
And what the hell are you trying to say here? Or better yet,
don't tell me. I'm sure it would help the froup's sanity not
knowing.
> He also checked off "you flamed a newbie for mistakes they did not
> make," which is also incorrect, as this newbie did most certainly
> post a total bonehead repitition of something that has been touched
> on in-depth repeatedly in multiple threads within the week, and that
> was a mistake.
Ignorance, hardly a mistake.
_Willful_ ignorance is something else again, but the only
one being that as far as I can tell is Jason.
> He also has the Cabal address (TCHNA) listed at Duke
> University, near East Campus, while it is well known that the Cabal
> offices (TCHNO) moved to a new building on Central Campus along
> Anderson Street (TINCC,OAS,FTM) where the International House (of
> Pancakes) used to be.
Pray tell, how am I to make sense out of the above pile of
semantical garbage?
> YMMV, but I didn't find Jason Lee's reply too harsh, given the above. He
> quoted an obscure insult, but it wasn't direct (since this guy's
> apparently not a "Brad").
I wouldn't call that insult "obscure". If an innorant
furriner like myself can get the insult without any idea of
it's "obscurity", I guess any American could as well.
> True, he did yell "FAQ" without a pointer, but anyone who is really
> interested in posting to this group can find any number of FAQ pointers
> by just searching a few threads herein.
Then refer to one of Paul's posts, instead of going off in
obscurity. And it's _still_ no excuse for the insulting
behaviour.
> This is especially true since Paul Raj Khangure seems to be shooting
> for a merger into the K^2 entity with his frequent FAQ pointers,
> making it the K^3 entity.
ObAside: FAQ pointers do not an entity make.
> Finally, I would like to point out that I gave KJ a yellow card, not a
> red. If he gets another yellow, then he'll have to sit out a while
> (insert favorite _Slapshot_ penalty box quote here), but that isn't
> likely, since Karl is usually quite civil.
And what, exactly, would be the practical difference between
a yellow and a red card on the froup? You killfiling me?
Go ahead, make my day.
For reference purposes, Jason's original post
<328C4B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>:
*** begin included post
geyy...@aol.com wrote:
> The palace or hall of the nine moons is Seanchan (ref don't remember which
> book the daughter is obviously the Seanchan queen or princess or something
"Check out the Big Brain on Brad!!!!! You're a smart motherfucker!"
You're right. F A Q
Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to an old
theory.
Jason Lee
My Opinions are my own, and I don't give a rat's ass about OU's.
ObDisclaimers: Are they really necessary for legal reasons?
*** end included post
Jason Lee
>Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
> I'm replying to everything in one go...
>
> Jay Pasquantonio wrote:
>
>> Karl-Johan Noren SRASFWRJBRF-ed somebody:
>
> > Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
> > Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
> > DotNM=Seanchan Princess Theory is far from original.
>
> Lappri.
>
[munch because I don't even know where to start]
Okay Karl-Johan Noren, heads up:
1) You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. The _Pulp Fiction_ tag-on was totally
out of line; I apologize to whomever I emotionally injured. My only
excuse is that I was having a *bad* day, double emphasis on the bad, and
it mildly relieved some of my tension posting that.
2) You are WRONG. I absolutely stand by my conviction that something
that is
a) addressed almost completely in the FAQ,
b) obvious to anyone who has skimmed through any section with Seanchan
royalty in it
c) been posted at least twice a week for the last month or so, if not
longer (sorry, I don't keep archives)
is totally, completely and utterly without a shred of originality. More
so than some of my humor.
If you're too rushed or too lazy to read the next set of points, see my
next reply for a summary. And remember: I took the time to read
through your SBRF.
Addressing other things:
1) Thank you to those who stood up for me. I consider myself chastised
on several points.
2) I = newbie. Let's discuss newbie. I've been reading messages, on
and off, for at least one and a half years now, and I've posted stuff on
other people's accounts on the rarest of occasions. Due to that I find
myself stuck in front of a terminal for the longest of periods lately,
I've been posting/reading a whole lot more. To give a timeframe, I
actually remember when the Taimandred theories were original! Beat
that! How long have you been lurking/posting, my SRASFWRJBRFing friend?
3) I = juvenile. I'm registered for the draft, I'm considered in a
court of law as an adult, I pay my own taxes, etc. If you're talking
about the content, see the above.
4) If I didn't include a FAQ pointer, and whomever concerned hasn't
randomly clicked and found one (I give it a 1 in 5 chance, per click)
than I suppose he/she could have written back, flaming me right back for
not pointing it out, now couldn't he/she?
5) I gladly receive the SBRF for the following Xes: lame insult,
retromoderation fodder, and lame .sig line.
A) I did not flame the newbie for mistakes he/she did not make.See 2).
B) This is _not_ a family newsgroup, and will become one about the same
time it gets totally back on topic.
C) It was not a thought longer than I can comprehend; I can comprehend
much longer trains of thought, as well as much more complex than
one-line insults. Referenced as you need it.
D) It was not lacking in intelligence either; the problem with the
original post was it went overboard. Dispute as wanted to.
E) It was _not_ the most useless thing you've ever seen; you've posted
worse, and I've posted worse. Get over it. Hopefully the newbie will
bother to state something less completely obvious next time, or at least
add something to it; a conclusion or deduction, perhaps.
F) I'm terribly sorry to point this out to you, but I believe I was the
first to respond to the original post. If someone has an earlier, than
my server didn't receive it at the time of writing.
G) Who the hell is Kate Nepveu?? I'm extremely puzzled by this insult,
since I have absolutely no reference frame to judge it by.
H) If RFC 1855 is about obscenities, I'll kindly ignore you even brought
up a free speech issue.
I) I have not misunderstood rasfwr-j; like someone aptly put, "Usenet is
the electronic toilet wall". Anyone who believes otherwise needs their
"Gumpism" level checked. Myself, if I need to get something productive
done over the internet, I use private massmail. Look into it.
J) As for getting a life, my life at the present is going just fine,
other than I don't have a steady significant other. But I am the judge
of what my life is, and I invite all those insecure "men" out there for
comparison, if you _*REALLY*_ need it to satisfy an ego craving.
K) Loser, huh? See J), as well as the summary on the next letter.
L) I have never, EVER used AOHell and I never will. Accuse me of that
again, and give me your home address while you're at it.
M) For "Understanding", I believe someone here is mistaken, and it's not
me. See I).
Jason Lee
"Anyone can err, but it is the admittance it makes us men."
Jason Lee
[munch Long Version of my Apology/Rejection]
What it boils down to is:
I need to work on venting frustration / anger / whatever at more
deserving sources.
You need to watch what you accuse people of, my friend. Because posting
Falsehood on the net is ultimately the greatest sign of lack of
misunderstanding of what the 'net is really about.
Jason Lee
"How many SBRFs until I win a doll?"
Jason Lee
>
> You need to watch what you accuse people of, my friend. Because posting
> Falsehood on the net is ultimately the greatest sign of lack of
> misunderstanding of what the 'net is really about.
>
Dear Lord, you know you're tired when you make a faux pas like that.
...or to some people, a Freudian Slip...
misunderstanding should read: understanding
Jason Lee
Bonehead
In article <56qbp1$j...@news.tamu.edu>, tlm...@tam2000.tamu.edu (Ty
Margheim) wrote:
}This is totally off topic from anything else.
}
}Hey Jason, how did you like the game on Saturday. It
}was awesome, wasn't it.
It was pathetic. Slocum should be placed on bonfire before we light
'er up.
--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
Ty Margheim
This is totally off topic from anything else.
Hey Jason, how did you like the game on Saturday. It
was awesome, wasn't it.
Ty
Heheheheheheh!
Karl-Johan Noren
In article <32905B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
[ me SRBRF-ed Jason ]
> 2) You are WRONG. I absolutely stand by my conviction that something
> that is
> a) addressed almost completely in the FAQ,
> b) obvious to anyone who has skimmed through any section with Seanchan
> royalty in it
> c) been posted at least twice a week for the last month or so, if not
> longer (sorry, I don't keep archives)
> is totally, completely and utterly without a shred of originality. More
> so than some of my humor.
Without a shred of originality, maybe. But is that
sufficient reason to be insulting and not being helpful? I
don't think so, and I'm pretty sure _every_ regular agrees
with me here.
And no, I don't think a reference to some "FAQing 3some" is
helpful either. IMO, it's just another attempt at showing
yourself as k00l and $mart. Hint: noone's being impressed by
such here.
[ munch ]
> 2) I = newbie. Let's discuss newbie. I've been reading messages, on
> and off, for at least one and a half years now, and I've posted stuff on
> other people's accounts on the rarest of occasions. Due to that I find
> myself stuck in front of a terminal for the longest of periods lately,
> I've been posting/reading a whole lot more. To give a timeframe, I
> actually remember when the Taimandred theories were original! Beat
> that! How long have you been lurking/posting, my SRASFWRJBRFing friend?
You can be on the net for _years_ while still remaining a
newbie. At the same time, there's people who're hardly never
newbies. It's a state of mind, _not_ some quantitative
amount of days logged on. If you behave like a newbie, you
_are_ a newbie. And you have behaved like the worst sort of
newbie.
FYI, I made my first post (I think) in November 1994, and
have been regular here since about March 1995. FWIW.
> 3) I = juvenile. I'm registered for the draft, I'm considered in a
> court of law as an adult, I pay my own taxes, etc. If you're talking
> about the content, see the above.
See above. And check the context of the "juvenile" remark.
You do hardly need to be a teenager to be a juvenile.
There's also teenagers who are not juvenile.
> 4) If I didn't include a FAQ pointer, and whomever concerned hasn't
> randomly clicked and found one (I give it a 1 in 5 chance, per click)
> than I suppose he/she could have written back, flaming me right back for
> not pointing it out, now couldn't he/she?
Unless you, through you being insulting, scared him or her
away from the froup. And don't give me the "small loss"
argument, there's been people who've made even worse entrees
than that who've become respected regulars in their own
right.
> A) I did not flame the newbie for mistakes he/she did not make.See 2).
You flamed a newbie _because_ he/she was a newbie.
Being a newbie is no mistake, it's no crime, it's no reason
for flames. Being a _willful_ ignorant is, but that was
hardly the case here, at least for the newbie you made your
remarks to.
The only one here right now who can deserve that label is
you. I haven't put that one on you yet, but you have sure
dropped a lot in my estimation.
> B) This is _not_ a family newsgroup, and will become one about the same
> time it gets totally back on topic.
Bzzzttt! Somehow I begin to doubt your claims on having
been here a long time.
[ munch ]
> F) I'm terribly sorry to point this out to you, but I believe I was the
> first to respond to the original post. If someone has an earlier, than
> my server didn't receive it at the time of writing.
And what is that an excuse of? Noone's being helpful yet,
so I'll get a free newbiebash?!?
Go do a reality check.
> G) Who the hell is Kate Nepveu?? I'm extremely puzzled by this insult,
> since I have absolutely no reference frame to judge it by.
The divine half of the K^2 entity, newbie helper
extraordinaire, afp regular, furniture consultant, lady,
sap, pervert and dominatrix, she's been posting regularly
since August this year, and probably earlier as well.
Somehow I doubt your claims about your time here even more.
> H) If RFC 1855 is about obscenities, I'll kindly ignore you even brought
> up a free speech issue.
Read it instead. Easily available from
http://pubweb.nexor.co.uk/public/rfc/index/rfc.html
[ munch ]
> L) I have never, EVER used AOHell and I never will. Accuse me of that
> again, and give me your home address while you're at it.
Somehow I doubt you've read my entire first post if you
stand by that claim. You got it from Jay, most likely.
> M) For "Understanding", I believe someone here is mistaken, and it's not
> me. See I).
Here's a free clue: if you want to be a $marta$$, go
somewhere else and be it. If you want to get the least
respect here, you had better go earn it, contributing to the
froup in a wortwhile manner and make sure you treat people
(that's newbies too, in case you wondered) decently.
Ty Margheim
In article <dylan-18119...@news.tamu.edu>, Bonehead says something
funny...
>}
>}Hey Jason, how did you like the game on Saturday. It
>}was awesome, wasn't it.
>
>'er up.
There I have to agree. The only reason that we won was because
OU stopped doing pass plays. If they had continued the way they
had in the second quarter, they would have stomped us.
Ty
Kate Nepveu
Rumor has it that k-j-...@dsv.su.se (Karl-Johan Noren) said:
>In article <328C4B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>
>Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
>> "Check out the Big Brain on Brad!!!!! You're a smart motherfucker!"
>> You're right. F A Q
>> Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to an old
>> theory.
> STANDARDIZED RASFWRJ BONEHEAD REPLY FORM V1.3
>_X_ your post/mail was a pathetic imitation of _____Kate Nepveu_____.
> (net.personality)
Waitaminute, methinks I heard my name taken in vain...
I mean, shouldn't that be Dylan or someone instead?
Kate
All lecturers read in closets in hope of discovering Narnia.
--Ewan Crichton
Thomas J. Stokes
Is it possible that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is yet another
prophesied figure? The Seanchan have controlled every one of the women
on their continent who can channel for quite some time. I'm sure that
at least a few of these had the Talent of Foretelling (in the last 20
years it has appeared 3 times among the Aes Sedai). The one with the
Foretelling would have told of certain signs that signalled the coming of
the DotNM and the return of the Seanchan to their native land.
Perhaps the reason the Seanchan have returned after all this time
is that the signs have finally appeared. Like every other people that
have had a prophesied figure, they have come searching for theirs. Being
a completely militant people, they have assumed that she would lead them
in battle when, in fact, she would bring peace between them and the
citizens of Randland proper. Berelain would be perfect for this role.
She may be a descendant of Hawkwing and she is a skilled arbitrator and
leader. Perhaps her comment about Mat being too much like herself was
one of RJ's subtle clues that she, as the DotNM, would marry him.
Kate Nepveu
Rumor has it that k-j-...@dsv.su.se (Karl-Johan Noren) said:
>In article <32905B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>
>Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
>> G) Who the hell is Kate Nepveu?? I'm extremely puzzled by this insult,
>> since I have absolutely no reference frame to judge it by.
>The divine half of the K^2 entity, newbie helper
>extraordinaire, afp regular, furniture consultant, lady,
^^^^^^^^^^^
>sap, pervert and dominatrix, she's been posting regularly
>since August this year, and probably earlier as well.
Actually I haven't had time lately to check out afp... just for
accuracy's sake, you know. (And I was around since just before ACOS
came out, but I was... umm.. quieter then.) Carry on.
Hawk
In article <56qu9n$d...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
Richard Pistole <rpis...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Karl-Johan wrote:
>>Jason Lee wrote:
>|> B) This is _not_ a family newsgroup, and will become one about the same
>|> time it gets totally back on topic.
>|Bzzzttt! Somehow I begin to doubt your claims on having
>|been here a long time.
>KJ, are you reading the same froup as I am? A family group this ain't.
>Family groups aren't obsessed with badgers. Family groups aren't
>filled with Piers Anthony reccomendations. They don't think up new
>groups like 'alt.fan.breasts.laras' in family groups.
Hmm... maybe we should do the injoke FAQ.
Anyway, that's all the point. This _isn't_ a family newsgroup, and, IIRC,
that phrase came into popular use when we were trying to prove to someone
that this isn't a group for immature kiddies to hang out on.
It's all sarcastic.
Hawk
Breasts are not a steering wheel.
Andrea Lynn Leistra
In article <56r6jf$1...@herald.concentric.net>, Hawk <M...@cris.com> wrote:
>In article <56qu9n$d...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
>Richard Pistole <rpis...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
[This isn't a family froup]
[Is too]
>>KJ, are you reading the same froup as I am? A family group this ain't.
>>Family groups aren't obsessed with badgers. Family groups aren't
>>filled with Piers Anthony reccomendations. They don't think up new
>>groups like 'alt.fan.breasts.laras' in family groups.
>Anyway, that's all the point. This _isn't_ a family newsgroup, and, IIRC,
>that phrase came into popular use when we were trying to prove to someone
>that this isn't a group for immature kiddies to hang out on.
>It's all sarcastic.
Does anyone have Pam's old "What are Family Values" post archived?
And, of course, there's the Family Tree, which makes it a family froup in
an entirely different sense...
Jason Lee
Karl-Johan wrote:
>In article <32905B...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>
>Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
>> 2) You are WRONG. I absolutely stand by my conviction that something
>> that is
>> a) addressed almost completely in the FAQ,
>> b) obvious to anyone who has skimmed through any section with Seanchan
>> royalty in it
>> c) been posted at least twice a week for the last month or so, if not
>> longer (sorry, I don't keep archives)
>> is totally, completely and utterly without a shred of originality. More
>> so than some of my humor.
>Without a shred of originality, maybe. But is that
>sufficient reason to be insulting and not being helpful? I
>don't think so, and I'm pretty sure _every_ regular agrees
>with me here.
Let me clarify. When someone posts as unintelligible a remark as "you know read
somewhere daughter of the nine moons seanchan royalty or something", it is BOTH
_unoriginal_ due to the number of postings on this subject covering this, and _idiotic_
in its statement of the blatantly obvious ("Hey, rasfwr-jians, didya know space is a
near-vacuum?"), lack of conclusions drawn, and total inability to parse correctly. I've
already apologized for going overboard in my acidity, but if you're saying that this
_doesn't_ deserve insult, than I heartily disagree - and that a large amount of regulars
will agree with me here.
>And no, I don't think a reference to some "FAQing 3some" is
>helpful either. IMO, it's just another attempt at showing
>yourself as k00l and $mart. Hint: noone's being impressed by
>such here.
Am I out to impress somebody here? No. The odds of me meeting a rasfwr-jian in person
is probably less than the odds a jumbo jet will crash into this building with me in it.
"FAQing 3some" was a shortened reference to, "Go find a post by Paul, Karl-Johan, or Ty
that has one of those lengthy hyperlinks I don't care to memorize at the moment to the
Wheel of Time FAQ". Why do you use IMO? Why does anyone? To "impress" people?
[ munch ]
>FYI, I made my first post (I think) in November 1994, and
>have been regular here since about March 1995. FWIW.
Whatever. Doubt as you want to how long I've been here, I don't care.
On this, you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AGAIN, 'newbie' is a qualitative indicator of what the
post is. My original post was definitely 'newbie quality'. ANOTHER good example of
'newbie quality' is the SBRF form, with its smartass checklist. If you're accusing me
of being a smartass, which I am occasionally, why are you using the best example yet of
such behavior?
>> 4) If I didn't include a FAQ pointer, and whomever concerned hasn't
>> randomly clicked and found one (I give it a 1 in 5 chance, per click)
>> than I suppose he/she could have written back, flaming me right back for
>> not pointing it out, now couldn't he/she?
>Unless you, through you being insulting, scared him or her
>away from the froup. And don't give me the "small loss"
>argument, there's been people who've made even worse entrees
>than that who've become respected regulars in their own
>right.
If someone has the timidity to not respond, or even post again after a flame on the
usenet, then I seriously doubt that person will become a "respected regular in his/her
own right".
>> A) I did not flame the newbie for mistakes he/she did not make.See 2).
>You flamed a newbie _because_ he/she was a newbie.
Wrong _again_, KJ, which was what the apology/rejection was about. You're contending I
flamed him simply because he's new, timewise, to this group. B.S. I flamed him because
of the content, as per my earlier argument towards its idiocy and redundancy. Yes, I
went too far, but if I'm in a suitable mood I'll take the time to insult any similar
stupid remarks from 'regulars', as well.
>Being a newbie is no mistake, it's no crime, it's no reason
>for flames. Being a _willful_ ignorant is, but that was
>hardly the case here, at least for the newbie you made your
>remarks to.
Making unintelligent remarks is an open target for retorts. Saying I flamed him for
being a 'new-person' is like the Associated Press article attributing AIDS was racist,
because more minorities get the disease proportionally than whites.
>The only one here right now who can deserve that label is
>you. I haven't put that one on you yet, but you have sure
>dropped a lot in my estimation.
Et tu? My original post was definitely out of line. Some of the smartass remarks in
the SBRF definitely belong in that category, too.
>> B) This is _not_ a family newsgroup, and will become one about the same
>> time it gets totally back on topic.
>Bzzzttt! Somehow I begin to doubt your claims on having
>been here a long time.
Really? I begin to doubt yours.
>> F) I'm terribly sorry to point this out to you, but I believe I was the
>> first to respond to the original post. If someone has an earlier, than
>> my server didn't receive it at the time of writing.
>And what is that an excuse of? Noone's being helpful yet,
>so I'll get a free newbiebash?!?
>Go do a reality check.
<sigh> One of your original smartass remarks in the SBRF was that my post was lame for
reason that it was redundant. Go read your SBRF again.
No it doesn't excuse anything, I'm responding to your SBRF.
>> G) Who the hell is Kate Nepveu?? I'm extremely puzzled by this insult,
>> since I have absolutely no reference frame to judge it by.
>The divine half of the K^2 entity, newbie helper
>extraordinaire, afp regular, furniture consultant, lady,
>sap, pervert and dominatrix, she's been posting regularly
>since August this year, and probably earlier as well.
>Somehow I doubt your claims about your time here even more.
I'm glad of it. I didn't even stop to read posts between June 1996 - Sept 1996 for
better things to do, which I don't have at this moment...
And if you think I'm going to know anybody's first and last name the week after I stop
posting, you have another thing coming...
>> L) I have never, EVER used AOHell and I never will. Accuse me of that
>> again, and give me your home address while you're at it.
>Somehow I doubt you've read my entire first post if you
>stand by that claim. You got it from Jay, most likely.
Again, you're forgetting what you commented on in your own SBRF. I believe the remark
was similar to, "Go back to AOL until you realize what the usenet is for."
No, I didn't get it from Jay.
>> M) For "Understanding", I believe someone here is mistaken, and it's not
>> me. See I).
>Here's a free clue: if you want to be a $marta$$, go
>somewhere else and be it. If you want to get the least
>respect here, you had better go earn it, contributing to the
>froup in a wortwhile manner and make sure you treat people
>(that's newbies too, in case you wondered) decently.
Here's a clue, as well: S B R F. Are you on your way, yet?
Jason Lee
Jay Pasquantonio
Hmm. Two points before I start off:
1. Most of my comments to KJ after his SRBRF were at least a bit
tongue-in-cheek, but it seems that he took them more seriously than I
expected. For KJ's consumtion only: Hey, I didn't mean to develop
hostilities here. I don't think there is anything a member of the K^2
entity could do to make me killfile them.
2. Unfortunately, my previous prediction that it would be uneccessary to
award Karl another yellow card was correct. For this post and the one
where he replied to Jason later, he gets a red card. But, hey, look at
it this way: it's a virtual red card so it doesn't mean diddleysquat.;)
(Eeew, I just used and emoticon!)
Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
>
> I'm replying to everything in one go...
Then so will I. Touche'
>
> Jay Pasquantonio wrote:
>
> Karl-Johan Noren SRASFWRJBRF-ed somebody:
>
> > Karl-Johan, I think I have to give you a yellow card here. You
> > Bonehead-Reply-Form-ed somebody for telling someone that the
> > DotNM=Seanchan Princess Theory is far from original.
>
> Lappri.
Tiera Del Fuego.
>
> I did what I did it becuase 1) Jason's reply was insulting
> and condescending; 2) he didn't include one hint of
> helpfulness about netiquette or the FAQ; 3) he has done
> similar things before.
I caught the repeat act later on in my scroll down.
Retroactively: Bad Jason, stop that!
>
> > Why? They were not even that harsh, and given that that theory has
> >been posted - what? five times this month? - they could easily have
> > been harsher. Or was your SRBRF trigger-finger itchy? Sure, there
> > haven't been many SRBRFs lobbed recently, but that is just because
> > of October's salvo.
>
> I think you're alone in thinking that Jason's post was "not
> even that harsh". It was a classic example of a
> newbie-juvenile flaming a newbie-infant.
Ok, lets get this one straight now. The part where he was being so harsh
was a quote, and I interpreted as not being a personal attack. It was in
quotes, and used a name that clearly was not the name of the person he
was responding to. Yes, after the RockGoddes incident, he should have
known better. Still, he left more clues than Loy did in his _Goodfellas_
post. Perhaps I am alone in thinking it was not that harsh. But perhaps
I saw it as too weak to be insulting. I certainly would not have been
insulted if it had been a reply to one of my posts, simply because it
was, well, stupid^H^H^H^Hunhelpful in itself. (Here I go - I'm trying to
alienate everybody. Really.)
>
> > Really, KJ, I expected better from you.
>
> I've gotten two responses via e-mail, _thanking_ me for
> sending out that SRBRF, as well as that neither Richard nor
> Andrea seems to have any problem with it.
And my response to your SRBRF was mostly in jest. I apologize if I did
not do a good enough job in conveying that tone, I promise to do better
in the future.
>
>>And not everyone keeps a FAQ pointer in their shoulder-holster like
>>you and Kate.
>
> Even then, the Jason's response could have had at least an
> attempt at helpfulness and civility.
Very true.
>
> _Refering_ to mine and Kate's posts, for instance.
Note that Andrea's response to Jason was not to SRBRF him, but to mildly
chastize him, and then provide the requisite pointer. Do you think Jason
got all the way down to the FAQ pointer at the end of your SRBRF? Or
geyshab, the guy he RTFFed? Or what about the original poster, Thomas?
Maybe, but they had to wade through a SRBRF to get to it. Not that I
would want your job of being Herr FAQPointer. Too much work and not
enough play for a boy like me.
>
> In article <328E9F...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de>
> Jay Pasquantonio <j...@med1.med.tu-muenchen.de> writes:
>
> > Andrea Lynn Leistra wrote:
>
> [ in response to Jay's original post, quoted above ]
>
>>>The poster that Karl SBRF'd was pretty harsh. Posting something
>>>that's been done before isn't grounds for a flame - it's grounds
>>>for a FAQ pointer. Simply telling someone 'FAQ!' without giving a
>>>pointer is useless. If you don't have a pointer, fine - then let
>>>someone who *does* tell the person to read the FAQ.
> >
>>Well, some of my annoyance with that particular thread rubbed off,
>>there. I mean, in one thread, the same damn thing has been said,
>>what, fifty times? I've got them sitting in front of me right now,
>>and I'm boggling that someone hasn't been hit by the _whole clue
>>tree_ before now.
>
> That's still not an excuse for not being civil. Go around
> and post the relevant section of the FAQ if nothing else
> helps, for instance.
Well, I guess that I still think that geyshab (the target of Jason's
ire) was not particularly deserving of kindness, since he was not only
flaming a newbie himself, but he provided no context for Jason to deduce
this from. This is probably due to my lack of patience for the willfully
ignorant _and_ hostile. Ignorance, I can put up with, even respond
helpfully to. A combination of ignorance and hostility gets no sympathy
and all disgust from me. This combination of ignorance and hostility is
what geyshab embodied with his post. Jason was not a paragon of reason
and humility himself, but he was about an order of magnitude more
palatable than geyshab.
>
>>Plus, if anyone deserved the SRBRF, it was the original poster, who
>>was:
>>1. Posting from AOL (not that there's anything wrong with that),
>
> Spot the logical flaw.
Spot the blatant _Seinfeld_ quote.
Subtitles for the evidentially challenged (=clueless):
The phrase "not that there is anything wrong with that" comes from a
famous _Seinfeld_ episode where a reporter thinks Jerry is gay, and he
keeps trying to convince her he is not without being offensive to
homosexuals. So he kept saying "not that there is anything wrong with
(being gay)." Which only convinced her more that he _was_ gay.
In any case, my parents use AOL, and they like it, so I don't give it as
hard of a time as some.
>
> > 2. Had numerous grammatical mistakes,
> > 3. Provided no context in a response,
> > 4. Has four similar posts that I can see, all equally FUBAR,
>
> DejaNews only lists one, which is the one Jason flamed him/her
> for. Not that DejaNews is perfect.
Here you are exactly right, and I was wrong. I was looking at a
different random .aoler who didn't give his name or any identifying
information. But at least you can see my confusion...?
>
>>5. Stated an idea that was not only obvious to any semi-intelligent
>> organism, but had already been posted so many times within the past
>>two weeks that it was becoming a noobie mantra.
>
> Nothing of which (except the last point) was addressed by
> Jason. And his way of addressing the issue was by insults
> and condescending sarcasm ("You're a smart motherfucker!";
> "Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to
> an old theory."), not with _any_ sort of helpful response.
Well, last time I checked, one didn't have to itemize why one was
lighting somebody up, especially if they have done something truly
stupid. The "smart motherfucker" quote is from a well known movie, which
insulates its personal insult. The other comment, while not helpful, was
arguably a defense of the newbie who got flamed by geyyshab.
>
>>Note that Karl indicated in his SRBRF that the flamer was posting
>>from AOL, which is incorrect, he was posting from Oklahoma U.
>
> *raises eyebrows*
Don't point those things at me!
>
> Go back and check again.
Yep, Jason most definitely was posting from Oklahoma University, and was
flaming geyy...@aol.com, who was listed as sender:ne...@aol.com. Here,
Karl, is where you picked up your red card.
>
> > ("Surrey with the friiiiiinge oooon tooooooooooop!").
>
> And what the hell are you trying to say here? Or better yet,
> don't tell me. I'm sure it would help the froup's sanity not
> knowing.
What? You mean you don't know the musical _Oklahoma_? Not that I've ever
seen the whole thing through, but it is definitely a requisite part of
American cultural literacy to know most of the major show tunes. Of
course, you have been excluded from this scruitiny, but if anyone from
southern Sweden could know that reference, I would have expected it of
you, Karl.
>
>>He also checked off "you flamed a newbie for mistakes they did not
>>make," which is also incorrect, as this newbie did most certainly
>>post a total bonehead repitition of something that has been touched
>>on in-depth repeatedly in multiple threads within the week, and that
>>was a mistake.
>
> Ignorance, hardly a mistake.
>
> _Willful_ ignorance is something else again, but the only
> one being that as far as I can tell is Jason.
Is it my turn to raise my eyebrows? I can raise one at a time or both at
once; which do you prefer? Because geyyshab is the one who seemed to be
the most hostilely ignorant in this whole thing. Jason was most
certainly not a saint, but he was at least addressing someone who was
crushing several rules of basic netiquette.
>
>>He also has the Cabal address (TCHNA) listed at Duke
>>University, near East Campus, while it is well known that the Cabal
>>offices (TCHNO) moved to a new building on Central Campus along
>>Anderson Street (TINCC,OAS,FTM) where the International House (of
>>Pancakes) used to be.
>
> Pray tell, how am I to make sense out of the above pile of
> semantical garbage?
This didn't help you avoid the red card, either. I was making several
references to my alma mater, Duke University, which features prominently
in _your_ SRBRF, as the listed Cabal address on your SRBRF is a real
one, and happens to be located across the street from Duke University's
East Campus. My flight of fancy involved the Cabal offices you had
listed moving from Trinity Avenue to Anderson Street, not only putting
them in a better neighborhood but landing them on the spot of the
offices of the international exchange program at Duke. See, this
building was called the International House, and since there is a
restaurant chain in the US called "International House of Pancakes," the
sign in front of the International House often had "of Pancakes" added
on to it by graffiti artists.
>
>>YMMV, but I didn't find Jason Lee's reply too harsh, given the
>>above. He quoted an obscure insult, but it wasn't direct (since this
>>guy's apparently not a "Brad").
>
> I wouldn't call that insult "obscure". If an innorant
> furriner like myself can get the insult without any idea of
> it's "obscurity", I guess any American could as well.
So you recognized the quote? And you still thought it was insulting? As
I said, YMMV.
>
>>True, he did yell "FAQ" without a pointer, but anyone who is really
>>interested in posting to this group can find any number of FAQ
>>pointers by just searching a few threads herein.
>
> Then refer to one of Paul's posts, instead of going off in
> obscurity. And it's _still_ no excuse for the insulting
> behaviour.
I think the key to our disagreement here is a difference of opinion
regarding the harshness of Jason's post and whether some insult was due
to geyyshab. One reaps what one sows.
>
>>This is especially true since Paul Raj Khangure seems to be shooting
>>for a merger into the K^2 entity with his frequent FAQ pointers,
>>making it the K^3 entity.
>
> ObAside: FAQ pointers do not an entity make.
True.
>
>>Finally, I would like to point out that I gave KJ a yellow card, not
>>a red. If he gets another yellow, then he'll have to sit out a
>>while (insert favorite _Slapshot_ penalty box quote here), but that
>>isn't likely, since Karl is usually quite civil.
>
> And what, exactly, would be the practical difference between
> a yellow and a red card on the froup? You killfiling me?
Sheesh. I know that sitting out a soccer game in winter in Sweden could
result in a fatal case of hypothermia, but meethinks you took my post a
tad bit too seriously, Karl.
(frip Jason's original post)
Ok, two can play at this game.
Here is the first line of the post that originated this thread. Thomas
J. Stokes wrote it:
>Is it possible that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is yet another
>prophesied figure?
The poster actually did have something to add, and it wasn't just
another DotNM noobie post.
Here was geyyshab's response to this post, in which s/he did not include
any context:
>The palace or hall of the nine moons is Seanchan (ref don't remember >which
>book the daughter is obviously the Seanchan queen or princess or
>something
This isn't particularly harsh, but it does have a "shut up, we know this
already" voice to it, in my opinion. This is the post which Jason
flamed, and he might have overreacted, but not by all that much, and
certainly not enough to call for a SRBRF. Note that my "yellow card"
post was not a flame at you, by any stretch of the imagination, and that
I agree with you that telling someone to read the FAQ without providing
a pointer is hypocrical. Then again, Irony, thy name is Usenet.
--
Jay Pasquantonio
"This is a dictatorship.
I'm the dick, and you're the taters."
-9th grade football coach
Emma Pease
>Let me clarify. When someone posts as unintelligible a remark as "you know read
large number of lines over 80 characters. Relevant lines reformatted
for readability.
Jason,
You are making yourself look worse and worse.
>I've already apologized for going overboard in my acidity, but if
>you're saying that this _doesn't_ deserve insult, than I heartily
>disagree - and that a large amount of regulars will agree with me
>here.
Insult should be reserved for those who fail to get a clue after been
definitely told they are in the wrong (or in retaliation for insults).
Even then other methods might be better. The novice you flamed was in
neither category and deserved at least civility from you (note you can
be civil and still tell a person he is wrong).
>Am I out to impress somebody here? No. The odds of me meeting a
>rasfwr-jian in person is probably less than the odds a jumbo jet will
>crash into this building with me in it. "FAQing 3some" was a
>shortened reference to, "Go find a post by Paul, Karl-Johan, or Ty
>that has one of those lengthy hyperlinks I don't care to memorize at
>the moment to the Wheel of Time FAQ".
Wait till you meet a possible employer who lurks in this newsgroup
(ask Garrett about such) or decides to do a dejanews search for all
articles you've ever posted. You might regret your acidity then.
Note that if you don't have enough time to find the URL or to give
some half way decent pointers to the FAQ you probably didn't have
enough time to post the message in the first place. If you needed to
let off steam, write the message but then drop it in /dev/null rather
than posting it and embarrassing yourself.
Emma
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ em...@csli.stanford.edu Die Luft der Freiheit weht
Karl-Johan Noren
In article <3290ebfc...@nntp.neu.edu>
kne...@lynx.neu.edu (Kate Nepveu) writes:
> Rumor has it that k-j-...@dsv.su.se (Karl-Johan Noren) said:
> >Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
> >> "Check out the Big Brain on Brad!!!!! You're a smart motherfucker!"
> >> You're right. F A Q
> >> Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to an old
> >> theory.
> >
> >_X_ your post/mail was a pathetic imitation of _____Kate Nepveu_____.
>
> Waitaminute, methinks I heard my name taken in vain...
>
> I mean, shouldn't that be Dylan or someone instead?
Well, it was a pathetic help to a newbie, as well as a
pathetic FAQ pointer. Don't you agree?
Putting DFA there instead would defeat the whole purpose of
the exercise...
Paul Raj Khangure
In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Jason Lee wrote:
: Let me clarify. When someone posts as unintelligible a remark as "you know read
: somewhere daughter of the nine moons seanchan royalty or something", it is BOTH
: _unoriginal_ due to the number of postings on this subject covering this, and _idiotic_
: in its statement of the blatantly obvious ("Hey, rasfwr-jians, didya know space is a
: near-vacuum?"), lack of conclusions drawn, and total inability to parse correctly. I've
: already apologized for going overboard in my acidity, but if you're saying that this
: _doesn't_ deserve insult, than I heartily disagree - and that a large amount of regulars
: will agree with me here.
etc.
Jason, a polite word on formatting.
Your line lengths exceed 80 characters.
Please keep them below 80 characters, preferably 70-75 characters long.
This increases your posts readability, and increases your chances of being
taken seriously.
Paul "Moridin" Khangure
--
If you aren't living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
It is unsporting to engage in a battle of wits against an unarmed opponent.
p...@iinet.net.au http://www.iinet.net.au/~prk
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Michael Steeves
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> wrote:
> Karl-Johan wrote:
> >Without a shred of originality, maybe. But is that
> >sufficient reason to be insulting and not being helpful? I
> >don't think so, and I'm pretty sure _every_ regular agrees
> >with me here.
>
> Let me clarify. When someone posts as unintelligible a remark as "you
> know read somewhere daughter of the nine moons seanchan royalty or
> something", it is BOTH _unoriginal_ due to the number of postings on
> this subject covering this, and _idiotic_ in its statement of the
> blatantly obvious ("Hey, rasfwr-jians, didya know space is a
> near-vacuum?"), lack of conclusions drawn, and total inability to
> parse correctly.
So they posted a FAQ-ed topic. Big fucking deal.
You still posted an annoying screed that was about as intelligent,
useful, and necessary as you. Probably about as wanted, also.
I find it telling that you're bleating about others being
"_idiotic_", and you still manage to look like a complete
moron because you can't handle a trivial detail like formatting
your posts properly, as well as a logical ability that would cause
shame to most two year old children.
> I've already apologized for going overboard in my acidity, but if
> you're saying that this _doesn't_ deserve insult, than I heartily
> disagree - and that a large amount of regulars will agree with me here.
Wrong. We already have people who have taken it upon themselves to
act as FAQ pointers, and do so with a lot more class and clue then
you managed.
You are a fucking moron, and will now be used as an example in
the "Meen To Newbies" threads, causing endless grief when we need
to administer the Throbbing Purple-Helmeted Love Nazi of Clue to
the Sphincter of Willful Ignorance. To suggest that you are a
waste of what would otherwise be a productive and useful human
being is to be guilty of a gross understatement that borders on
outright falsehood.
> >Being a newbie is no mistake, it's no crime, it's no reason
> >for flames. Being a _willful_ ignorant is, but that was
> >hardly the case here, at least for the newbie you made your
> >remarks to.
>
> Making unintelligent remarks is an open target for retorts. Saying
> I flamed him for being a 'new-person' is like the Associated Press
> article attributing AIDS was racist, because more minorities get the
> disease proportionally than whites.
Priceless. Just fucking priceless. How, exactly, you fit into the
Grand Scheme of Things According to Jason Lee is something that I'm
almost afraid to discover.
> >The only one here right now who can deserve that label is
> >you. I haven't put that one on you yet, but you have sure
> >dropped a lot in my estimation.
>
> Et tu? My original post was definitely out of line. Some of the
> smartass remarks in the SBRF definitely belong in that category, too.
The SBRF is a fairly humorous way to mock those that show a complete
and utter lack of a clue. I myself voted for Gang Squickings, but then
again I've never been much of a diplmat.
> >The divine half of the K^2 entity, newbie helper
> >extraordinaire, afp regular, furniture consultant, lady,
> >sap, pervert and dominatrix, she's been posting regularly
> >since August this year, and probably earlier as well.
> >Somehow I doubt your claims about your time here even more.
Oh, get some therapy, already, Karl. Sheesh.
> I'm glad of it. I didn't even stop to read posts between June
> 1996 - Sept 1996 for better things to do, which I don't have at
> this moment... And if you think I'm going to know anybody's first
> and last name the week after I stop posting, you have another thing
> coming...
And you criticize others for idiocy and Lack of Clue? Good God,
are you acting this way deliberately, or are your parents related?
"Now run along and have a wank. We have matters of import to
discuss, and you'd only become frightfully confused."
Peeve: That now, whenever one of the interminable newbie/oldbie
threads come about, I'll have to hear about *this* fucking moron.
-darkelf
--
Mike Steeves mste...@tiac.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Death before dishonor / Drugs before lunch
-Aspen Gun and Drug Club
Richard M. Boye'
Michael Steeves wrote:
>
(snip fairly long brilliant blistering blow-off of Jason Lee)
Gee, Michael could I be you when I grow up?
I wish, just once, I could be as inspiredly dastardly as you when you're
writing a retort, or in general swatting off morons.
> And you criticize others for idiocy and Lack of Clue? Good God,
> are you acting this way deliberately, or are your parents related?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This of course if my favorite part.
I realize, that I'm going to subconciously file that away and use when
it the need arises, unintentionally, further alienating my family and
friends. Most of whom think I'm too sarcastic as it is.
Oh well.
--
Jason Lee
Paul Raj Khangure wrote:
>
> Jason, a polite word on formatting.
>
> Your line lengths exceed 80 characters.
>
> Please keep them below 80 characters, preferably 70-75 characters long.
>
> This increases your posts readability, and increases your chances of being
> taken seriously.
My bad. Thank you for the pointer.
Jason Lee
Jason Lee
Emma Pease wrote:
>
> large number of lines over 80 characters. Relevant lines reformatted
> for readability.
My apologies; I blew up the reply to get a better view of
the original, and didn't think about the length.
> Jason,
>
> You are making yourself look worse and worse.
> Insult should be reserved for those who fail to get a clue after been
> definitely told they are in the wrong (or in retaliation for insults).
> Even then other methods might be better. The novice you flamed was in
> neither category and deserved at least civility from you (note you can
> be civil and still tell a person he is wrong).
>
All right, _already_.
I've said that I was in the wrong. Do I need a standard header now?
You're right, there _are_ better methods. Thank you for your input.
I'll censor my remarks and look for them. Note that being civil
on usenet is far from what you may be suggesting: that people aren't
regularly condescending or sarcastic to each other on the net.
> Wait till you meet a possible employer who lurks in this newsgroup
> (ask Garrett about such) or decides to do a dejanews search for all
> articles you've ever posted. You might regret your acidity then.
Okay, I'll bite. <Chomp on obvious unmentioned story>
What happened to Garrett?
Or is he an employer?
Jason Lee
Jason Lee
Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
>
> In article <3290ebfc...@nntp.neu.edu>
> kne...@lynx.neu.edu (Kate Nepveu) writes:
>
> > Rumor has it that k-j-...@dsv.su.se (Karl-Johan Noren) said:
> > >Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
> > >> "Check out the Big Brain on Brad!!!!! You're a smart motherfucker!"
> > >> You're right. F A Q
> > >> Unless you wish to add some intellectually dazzling spin to an old
> > >> theory.
> > >
> > >_X_ your post/mail was a pathetic imitation of _____Kate Nepveu_____.
> >
> > Waitaminute, methinks I heard my name taken in vain...
> >
> > I mean, shouldn't that be Dylan or someone instead?
>
> Well, it was a pathetic help to a newbie, as well as a
> pathetic FAQ pointer. Don't you agree?
KJ,
Get over it, already. If you can't, well, what can _I_ do about it?
>
> Putting DFA there instead would defeat the whole purpose of
> the exercise...
Kindly leave insults to other members of rasfwr-j out of this discussion,
especially bad attempts to be subtle at it.
Ms. Nepveu: I'm sorry I acted rashly the first post, I'm sorry you
got dragged into this (unless you're not, and then I don't care), and
I'm sorry I chose to respond to the SBRF instead of ignoring it.
Have a wonderful night and day, everybody.
...Back to PoliSci...
Jason Lee
The rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan FAQ is available at
http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/internet/news/faq/archive/sf.robert-jordan-faq.html
Satisfied? I'll be sure to copy it every time I need to point
the FAQ to someone, to avoid those nasty SBRFs.
Jason Lee
Jason Lee
Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
>
> In article <3290ebfc...@nntp.neu.edu>
> kne...@lynx.neu.edu (Kate Nepveu) writes:
>
<snip archive>
Kate Nepveu
>> >Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
>> >> "Check out the Big Brain on Brad!!!!! You're a smart motherfucker!"
>> >> You're right. F A Q
>> >_X_ your post/mail was a pathetic imitation of _____Kate Nepveu_____.
>> Waitaminute, methinks I heard my name taken in vain...
>> I mean, shouldn't that be Dylan or someone instead?
>Well, it was a pathetic help to a newbie, as well as a
>pathetic FAQ pointer. Don't you agree?
But it was also a pathetic insult to a newbie
>Putting DFA there instead would defeat the whole purpose of
>the exercise...
Errm, well, I see your point, but... the context made it sound more
insulting than anything (which I know you didn't intend).
Michael Kozlowski
In article <32930D...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>,
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> wrote:
[response to KJ's SBRF snipped]
>I'm sorry I chose to respond to the SBRF instead of ignoring it.
... posted three times.
My irony-meter is giving me record numbers here.
--
Michael Kozlowski
President, International Weasel Information Society
kozl...@cae.wisc.edu
http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~kozlowsk/weasel.html
Kate Nepveu
Rumor has it that Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> said:
>Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
>> In article <3290ebfc...@nntp.neu.edu>
>> kne...@lynx.neu.edu (Kate Nepveu) writes:
[SRBRF]
>> > Waitaminute, methinks I heard my name taken in vain...
>> > I mean, shouldn't that be Dylan or someone instead?
>> Well, it was a pathetic help to a newbie, as well as a
>> pathetic FAQ pointer. Don't you agree?
>> Putting DFA there instead would defeat the whole purpose of
>> the exercise...
>Kindly leave insults to other members of rasfwr-j out of this discussion,
>especially bad attempts to be subtle at it.
Well, actually that comment should be directed at me, since I brought
Dylan into this. I wasn't trying to insult Dylan, actually, since he
has been known to make comments like that (though without the FAQ
pointer.)
>Ms. Nepveu: I'm sorry I acted rashly the first post, I'm sorry you
>got dragged into this (unless you're not, and then I don't care), and
>I'm sorry I chose to respond to the SBRF instead of ignoring it.
Okay. As far as I can tell, this matter should be closed now,
everyone...
>Have a wonderful night and day, everybody.
>...Back to PoliSci...
You had to go there...
ObPaperTopic: "The Most Underrated President in US History is:
Warren G. Harding." <shudder>
Kate Nepveu
Rumor has it that mste...@tiac.net (Michael Steeves) said:
>> Karl-Johan wrote:
>> >The divine half of the K^2 entity, newbie helper
>> >extraordinaire, afp regular, furniture consultant, lady,
>> >sap, pervert and dominatrix, she's been posting regularly
>> >since August this year, and probably earlier as well.
>> >Somehow I doubt your claims about your time here even more.
>Oh, get some therapy, already, Karl. Sheesh.
What? He sounds perfectly normal to me...
Jason Lee
HA! I'd hate to prove that one...
Try ObPaperTopic: "Foreign Influence And Lessons Learned From The Balkan
Conflict."
The one I'm writing _now_.
Jason Lee
Jason Lee
Michael Kozlowski wrote:
<snip>
> ... posted three times.
> My irony-meter is giving me record numbers here.
My apologies. My server hiccuped.
"Jay, I'll take a box of Handiwipes, I already have goggles..."
You know, I stepped back and took a good, objective look at this
discussion thread, and it was going NOWHERE.
I looked back at the source of it all, and I laughed.
We're throwing insults around like ninth graders, fellas. C'mon, we
outgrew this a _long_ time ago. So, as the last batch of insults:
I was a Bonehead(tm). I made a moronic post I shouldn't have. After
that, I made a stupid/idiotic/rash decision to throw a retort back at a
well-deserved SBRF. So Karl-Johan, forget I said any of my
ill-placed insults from then on; here's the reply that an intelligent and
wise Jason would have posted:
>Karl-Johan wrote:[munch long SBRF]
>I erred in flaming the 'newperson' in my previous post. Thank you for
>the quick attitude correction, and I'll take some of the SBRF as good
>advice. Yellow card for me.
>Jason Lee
For the rest of you, thank you for miscellaneous pointers along the way.
I have to say, Michael, that I'm slightly disappointed that your server
munched your reply before I could read it. I'm sure it had lots of good
advice, too. =>
As a last question, Karl, do you have geyser's address so I can mail an
apology?
So let's get back to discussing important topics that include the
Amusement Factor(tm), such as beer, acronyms, and professions.
Jason Lee
"ObAdamMiller: Holyshit^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H, I guess he was VERY..."
Adam Robert Miller
In article <32934F...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>,
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> wrote:
<snip everything relevant to this thread>
>Jason Lee
>
>"ObAdamMiller: Holyshit^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H, I guess he was VERY..."
Where did this come from????? Not that I don't appreciate it, but I'm
confused now...
Adam Miller
Loremaster of the Random Thought
Points Awarded are not Official Cabal Points (TANOCP)
Bill Garrett
wa...@webspan.net wrote:
} Emma Pease wrote:
} >
} > Wait till you meet a possible employer who lurks in this newsgroup
}
} furtively in dark corners), but this is the first time I've heard of a
} specific instance of this happening.
}
} Did that really happen to Garrett? (or anyone else for that matter?)
Please, call me either "Bill" or "Mister Garrett", but not "Garrett".
When I interviewed at... a major software company located near
Seattle... one of the people I interviewed with was familiar with at
least some of my Jordanite background. Over lunch we were discussing
virtual communities on the Internet. I said that I belonged to one,
and that in fact just the day before I met in person for the first
time a fellow (Devin Ganger) whom I'd "known" only electronically for
more than a year. "Oh, was that one of the darkfriends from the Jordan
newsgroup?" he asked.
To be fair, he may have gotten that information from browsing my
Robert Jordan Web archive rather than from lurking in the newsgroup.
I suppose the bottom line is that you should be aware that whatever
you post to a newsgroup or place on the Web may be read by someone
you'll actually meet.
--
Bill Garrett We have enough youth.
gar...@apple.com How about a fountain of SMART?
Opinions mine, not Apple's.
Lawless
Paul Raj Khangure (p...@opera.iinet.net.au) wrote:
: Jason, a polite word on formatting.
: Your line lengths exceed 80 characters.
: Please keep them below 80 characters, preferably 70-75 characters long.
: This increases your posts readability, and increases your chances of being
: taken seriously.
It also reduces the likelihood of your being balefired. ;>
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg (law...@netcom.com / law...@eskimo.com)
--
-- If violence isn't the answer then I don't understand the question.
Kate Nepveu
Rumor has it that Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> said:
>Kate Nepveu wrote:
>> ObPaperTopic: "The Most Underrated President in US History is:
>> Warren G. Harding." <shudder>
>HA! I'd hate to prove that one...
It's actually going pretty well in terms of finding evidence. It's
just that the damn thing is due Friday.... (I picked Harding, he
wasn't forced on me.)
>Try ObPaperTopic: "Foreign Influence And Lessons Learned From The Balkan
>Conflict."
>The one I'm writing _now_.
Lessons? What lessons? People don't learn from history...
Seriously, foreign policy's not really a field of interest of mine,
though I did do a paper on intervention in Somalia last year.
BTW, your line lengths are still showing up rather long on my
newsreader. You might need to put manual line breaks in.
Kate
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body.
--Elaine Boosler
Richard M. Boye'
Emma Pease wrote:
>
>
> Wait till you meet a possible employer who lurks in this newsgroup
I just gotta ask.
I've heard rumors about this kind of thing occurring (whispered
furtively in dark corners), but this is the first time I've heard of a
specific instance of this happening.
Did that really happen to Garrett? (or anyone else for that matter?)
Just curious.
(and a little unnerved, actually)
Lawless
Richard M. Boye' (wa...@webspan.net) wrote:
: Emma Pease wrote:
: > Wait till you meet a possible employer who lurks in this newsgroup
: > (ask Garrett about such)
: I've heard rumors about this kind of thing occurring (whispered
: furtively in dark corners), but this is the first time I've heard of a
: specific instance of this happening.
: Did that really happen to Garrett? (or anyone else for that matter?)
Isn't going to be terribly common that an employer is reading a newsgroup
a future employee posts in, except for various tech/business related ones.
Doesn't mean it doesn't, or hasn't, happened.
More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
look at where & what the person has been posting. If you don't know to
put a X-noarchive header in your posts (something like that), then Alta
Vista & Deja News among others will likely archive your posts.
At this point, it's all to easy to get an "Author Profile" showing a list
of newsgroups you've posted to, how many articles in each, and even lets
them pull up the Subjects and articles you wrote. Can find some real
illuminating things out about people by doing this.
Bonehead
}More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
}has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
}look at where & what the person has been posting.
So, Novak, did this come up when you were getting your security clearance?
--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
Karl-Johan Noren
> Rumor has it that k-j-...@dsv.su.se (Karl-Johan Noren) said:
> >kne...@lynx.neu.edu (Kate Nepveu) writes:
> >> I mean, shouldn't that be Dylan or someone instead?
> >
> >Well, it was a pathetic help to a newbie, as well as a
> >pathetic FAQ pointer. Don't you agree?
>
> But it was also a pathetic insult to a newbie
Well, yes, but then I don't think the newbie in question saw
it as pathetic...
> >Putting DFA there instead would defeat the whole purpose of
> >the exercise...
>
> Errm, well, I see your point, but... the context made it sound more
> insulting than anything (which I know you didn't intend).
I see your point as well. Can you forgive me?
Karl-Johan Noren
In article <32934F...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu>
Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> writes:
> I was a Bonehead(tm). I made a moronic post I shouldn't have. After
> that, I made a stupid/idiotic/rash decision to throw a retort back at a
> well-deserved SBRF. So Karl-Johan, forget I said any of my
> ill-placed insults from then on; here's the reply that an intelligent and
> wise Jason would have posted:
Apology accepted.
> As a last question, Karl, do you have geyser's address so I can mail an
> apology?
Karl-Johan Noren
In article <32931bba...@nntp.neu.edu>
kne...@lynx.neu.edu (Kate Nepveu) writes:
> Rumor has it that mste...@tiac.net (Michael Steeves) said:
> >> Karl-Johan wrote:
> >> >The divine half of the K^2 entity, newbie helper
> >> >extraordinaire, afp regular, furniture consultant, lady,
> >> >sap, pervert and dominatrix, she's been posting regularly
> >> >since August this year, and probably earlier as well.
> >
> >Oh, get some therapy, already, Karl. Sheesh.
>
> What? He sounds perfectly normal to me...
Paul, here you see what's needed for the K^2 entity.
Darkelf has to be thinking you need therapy...
Richard Campbell
In article <garrett-2011...@kellmi1.apple.com>,
Bill Garrett <gar...@apple.com> wrote:
>}
>} Did that really happen to Garrett? (or anyone else for that matter?)
>
Aw, come on.
I mean, I have only pleasant associations with "Garrett."
First, there's the amusing fantasy PI by Cook. (sp?)
Second, there's the sound...sounds like...garotte
...sounds like...victory.
Richard Campbell gt3...@prism.gatech.edu
--
Dilbert: "I'm tempted to try this chain letter."
Dogbert: "Maybe for your first crime you shouldn't put your name and
address on it and distribute it to ten thousand strangers."
Paul Raj Khangure
In an Age long past, an Age yet to come, Jason Lee wrote:
: > Putting DFA there instead would defeat the whole purpose of
: > the exercise...
:
: Kindly leave insults to other members of rasfwr-j out of this discussion,
: especially bad attempts to be subtle at it.
I wouldn't call that subtle. <G>
Jason, you're digging yourself in deeper and deeper.
You post saying you've read and lurked a while, you're not a newbie.
You aren't aware of various ppl, who are regulars.
You post a reply with line lengths exceeding standard.
And now you post an article 3 times. (Yes, not exactly the same article,
but close enough).
Maybe it was a real unfortunate run of events, but just take a look at how
it appears.
John S. Novak, III
>More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
>has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
>look at where & what the person has been posting.
I would suspect that most employers would have better fucking uses for
their time, to be quite honest.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cris.com
The Humblest Man on the Net
Michael Kozlowski
In article <570avu$i...@herald.concentric.net>,
John S. Novak, III <J...@cris.com> wrote:
>In <lawlessE...@netcom.com> law...@netcom.com (Lawless) writes:
>
>>More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
>>has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
>>look at where & what the person has been posting.
>
>I would suspect that most employers would have better fucking uses for
>their time, to be quite honest.
In my current job, which I applied for via e-mail, my employer checked out
my Web page before interviewing me.
After he mentioned that, I was a bit nervous about my prospects for
getting the job, let me tell you.
-Mike "You seem qualified, but what's this about weasels?" K.
Michael Steeves
wa...@webspan.net wrote:
> Gee, Michael could I be you when I grow up?
Sure. That part's easy.
Drink a cup of coffee. Finished? Good. Drink another. When you
finish that, drink a third. In fact, drink this whole pot here.
Done with that? Blurred vision? Heart palpitations? Excellent.
Try this acid. Better try a couple, just in case. Now that you've
done all that, grab an Amyl for later, a copy of _Fear and Loathing_
for tagline quotes and whatnot, and you're ready to go!
See, now wasn't that easy?
-darkelf
"A cap of good acid costs five dollars and for that you can hear the
Universal Symphony with God singing solo an dthe Holy Ghost on drums."
-Hunter S. Thompson
--
Mike Steeves mste...@tiac.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Death before dishonor / Drugs before lunch
-Aspen Gun and Drug Club
Michael Steeves
kne...@lynx.neu.edu wrote:
> Rumor has it that mste...@tiac.net (Michael Steeves) said:
> >Oh, get some therapy, already, Karl. Sheesh.
>
> What? He sounds perfectly normal to me...
Well, yeah, but you finished furniture for *Chad*. It's not
like we can trust your opinions on these things....
-darkelf
John S. Novak, III
>}More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
>}has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
>}look at where & what the person has been posting.
>So, Novak, did this come up when you were getting your security clearance?
No.
Not for the Secret level clearance, anyway. My Top Secret is still in
the paperwork phase. The Boss has been waiting for his TS for, fuck,
upwards of 20 months, now. It was regarded as a minor miracle that I
got my Secret in two months.
Y'see, I filled out The Form.
The Form, of course, is an eleven page miracle of US government
paperwork. Eleven pages of extrmely small type. Two sections.
Section one is a history. List three character references. List all
educational activities for the past ten years, and people who can
verify each one. List complete residential history for the past ten
years, down to the dorm room number and summer vacation levels of
resolution. List complete work history for ten years, and people who
can verify. List a person for each residence WHO STILL LIVES IN THE
AREA to verify. Give certain details on various close family members
including in-laws, if any.
(Oh, and what they don't mention is that no reference for anything
should appear more than twice, anywhere. If I moved from Heitz 24 to
Heitz 28, I still need two people who still live in Peoria who knew me
when I lived at those locations. Ponder that, future classified
workers. Do you have any idea how much time I spent trying to
remember where all I lived and dredging up references?)
Section two is "Are you or have you ever...?" D'you use drugs?
Booze? Are you a deadbeat? Ever been convicted of a felony? Etc,
etc. It was stressed that marking one or more of these as "yes" is
not a death sentence. I should know, I had to mark one or two as yes,
as a matter of fact.
My all time favorite on this is:
"Have you ever been an officer or a member or made donations to an
organization dedicated to the violent overthrow of the United States
Government and which engages in illegal activities to that end,
knowing that the organization engages in such activities with the
specific intent to further such activities?"
"Have you ever knowingly engaged in any acts or activities designed to
overthrow the United States Government by force?"
"If you answered 'Yes' to a or b, explain in the space below."
No shit. I am not making this up. It is my mission in life to find
someone who basically said "Yes, I have committed High Treason," and
then see if they got their clearance.
So just from a practical, common sense level, if they're going to
accept someone (potentially) who had a known drug problem with the
government culture on illegal durgs being what it is, I really don't
think they give a shit what someone says on the Net, unless they're
doing something stupid like exporting encryption technology through
your web page. They're not going to waste their time going through
the crap we all put on our pages.
And on an experiential level, they did not check so much as one
reference that I put down. None of the employment refs, none of the
character refs, none of the education refs, none of the residence
refs. None. Nada. Zip.
What makes you think they're gonna fire up a fucking web page, just
aside from the fact that there's no spot on the form asking for such
transient shit as e-mail address, posting address or web page?
In conclusion, the answer is, no. They don't do this.
Frankly, I'm surprised companies do, either, unless they're hiring you
as a web artist or some such. As far as I'm concerned, it's entirely
orthogonal to their main concern, namely, my job qualifications. My
web page, unless it attacks or mentions the company I work for directly,
is just as much none of their business as anything else I do in my
spare time.
Kate Nepveu
Rumor has it that law...@netcom.com (Lawless) said:
>More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
>has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
>look at where & what the person has been posting.
[....]
> Can find some real
>illuminating things out about people by doing this.
Do employers really do this?
Somewhat concerned, for obvious reasons,
Brian D. Ritchie
In article <329353d1...@nntp.neu.edu>,
Kate Nepveu <kne...@lynx.neu.edu> wrote:
>Rumor has it that Jason Lee <jc...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu> said:
>>Kate Nepveu wrote:
>>> ObPaperTopic: "The Most Underrated President in US History is:
>>> Warren G. Harding." <shudder>
>>HA! I'd hate to prove that one...
>It's actually going pretty well in terms of finding evidence. It's
>just that the damn thing is due Friday.... (I picked Harding, he
>wasn't forced on me.)
I had to write a paper about a president once. As I discovered, there
isn't a whole to be said about William Henry Harrison's time as president.
--
Brian Ritchie
br...@prism.gatech.edu
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt8782b/
Michael Kozlowski
In article <3293bc22...@nntp.neu.edu>,
Kate Nepveu <kne...@lynx.neu.edu> wrote:
>Rumor has it that law...@netcom.com (Lawless) said:
>
>>More common though, is that employers check to see if a potential employee
>>has been posting on Usenet via one of several search engines, and then
>>look at where & what the person has been posting.
>Do employers really do this?
>
>Somewhat concerned, for obvious reasons,
Oh, don't worry. Even if some employer ever did do a Usenet search on
you, they'd probably never find out about your extensive criminal record.
Or your Nazi leanings.