THE FAQS OF LIFE. LOC SPOILERS
Pam Korda
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"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth
bared, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on the last day!"
"I of course have zero evidence for this, but since when has that stopped
any of us?" <David Wren-Hardin>
"Get your FAQs first, then you can distort 'em as you please." -Mark Twain
"Now, what I want is FAQs. Teach these boys and girls nothing but
FAQs...Plant nothing else, and root out everything else...Stick to
FAQs, sir!" --Charles Dickens, _Hard Times_
THE WOT FAQ WAS LAST UPDATED NOVEMBER, 1994.
CONTRIBUTORS. Active Contributors & Articles Plundered From:
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(Did I forget anyone? Is anyone on here twice? Anybody with a name
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KEEPER OF THE CHRONICLES: Pam Korda <ko...@kimbark.uchicago.edu>
(Ca veut dire, the FAQ-keeper)
REFERENCE CHECKERISSIMO DUDE: Joe Shaw (Official Net Jordan Librarian),
<joe...@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
KEEPER OF THE FLAME OF TAR FTP: Viren R. Shah <vi...@cc.gatech.edu
FAQ available by anonymous ftp. to faser.cs.olemiss.edu
/pub/jordan/Jordan.FAQ.<month>. There's all sorts of fun
stuff there besides the FAQ, so check it out.
or by gopher--lahs.losalamos.k12.nm.us, dir
is "Bored out of your Gourd? Take a Romp In Daveland"
WWW HOME PAGE: http://faser.cs.olemiss.edu/jordan/jordan.html
html conversion by Helmut Geyer
<Helmut...@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De> good job, Helmut!
MOTHER OF THE FAQ: Erica Sadun <er...@cc.gatech.edu>. She is retired,
but she started the thing, so you probably shouldn't call her
a non-entity.
REC.ARTS.SF.WRITTEN.ROBERT-JORDAN FAQ: Posted regularly to r.a.sf.w.r-j,
news.answer and rec.answers, and archived at rtfm.mit.edu in
directory /pub/usenet/news.answers/sf/robert-jordan-faq it
contains general newsgroup information, general author info,
release dates, etc. Please read this document first if you
are new to rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan. Keeper is Joe Shaw
<joe...@csgrad.vt.edu>
[NB: 'Survey Says' sections are from the 2nd Annual Novak-Ghirardelli Survey]
[NB: Standard Reference Format:
<Book Abr.: Chapter #, paperback pg#, Chapter name, hardcover pg#>]
ACRONYMS
TWoT = The Wheel of Time
TEotW = The Eye of the World
TGH = The Great Hunt
TDR = The Dragon Reborn
TSR = The Shadow Rising
TFoH = The Fires of Heaven
LoC = Lord of Chaos
FAQ = WMAK, Wonderful Masterpiece of Assembled Knowledge,
but FAQ is easier to say (and makes for better puns)
r.a.sf.w = rec.arts.sf.written (also just "rasfw")
r.a.sf.w.r-j = rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan (also just "rasfwrj")
AOL = Age of Legends
AS = Aes Sedai (or Amyrlin Seat)
BA = Black Ajah
DO = Dark One
DF = Darkfriend
DFS/DS = Darkfriend Social
Eg/Egw = Egwene
El = Elayne
Ish/Ishy = Ishamael
LTT = Lews Therin Telamon
Mog/Moggy = Moghedien
Mo/Moir = Moiraine
MPS = Mad Passionate Sex, (c) Mike Macchione
MT = Mazrim Taim
Ny/Nyn = Nynaeve
OP = One Power
RJ = Robert Jordan
SG = Shayol Ghul
SS = Siuan Sanche
T'A'R = Tel'aran'rhiod(also TAR)
WCs = Whitecloaks
WOs = Wise Ones
YKYBRTMRJW = You Know You've Been Reading Too Much Robert Jordan When...
CONTENTS: (* = new this faq, + updated this faq, - same as last faq)
part 1:
ADMINISTRIVIA
- 0.0 Contents/Acronyms Section
+ 0.1 FAQ introduction.
- 0.2 What are these Jordan Wheel of Time Books?
- 0.3 What are the Conan books?
+ 0.4 Mis-steps. (Errors along the way)
- 0.5 What should I do if I've become obsessed?
- 0.6 What's the deal with these shoddy Tor covers that keep falling off?
- 0.7 The RJ Hoax.
- 0.8 Who Is Robert Jordan, Really?
1.0 ALL ANSWERS GREAT AND SMALL
- 1.1 Jordan-speak. Words from the man himself.
+ 1.2 Who was Beidomon?
- 1.3 Is Thom Elayne and Gawyn's real father?
+ 1.4 Why do we think that Thom will marry Moiraine?
+ 1.5 Why is Moiraine not dead?
part 2:
+ 1.6 What was up with Gawyn during the coup?
- 1.7 What was the Tamyrlin?
+ 1.8 Who will marry Mat?
+ 1.9 Who will take Callandor from the Stone? (Logain stuff)
* 1.10 How does Mat's medallion work?
- 1.11 Why isn't Elaida Black?
+ 1.12 Who will Lan be bonded to now?
+ 1.13 Who killed Asmodean?
+ 1.14 Who is Moghedien, really, in Salidar
- 1.15 Is Aram a Darkfriend?
- 1.16 What's up with Mat and the dice Ter'angreal?
- 1.17 Is Aviendha pregnant?
+ 1.18 Is Nynaeve still blocked?
+ 1.19 Where is Gaidal Cain now?
+ 1.20 Will the Seanchan invade Salidar?
+ 1.21 The Seven Seals
+ 1.22 Is Ishamael still alive?
- 1.23 Who's Who in the Families?
- 1.24 Tigraine == Shaiel (Rand's mum): an analysis
- 1.25 Slayer (Isam & Luc)
- 1.26 The Severed Hand
- 1.27 How old is everyone?
- 1.28 What does each Ajah do (and want)?
- 1.29 The Green Man and the Song (Who is the Green Man, What is the Song,
Who will find the Song, Who were the Aiel?)
- 1.30 Countries of Rand-Land
+ 1.31 Is Verin Black?
+ 1.32 Is there Religion in RandLand?
+ 1.33 Who are the Forsaken? Where are they now?
part3
- 1.34 All the Aes Sedai
+ 1.35 Why Lanfear may be Good (not just in bed, Roy)
- 1.36 Who are the Aelfs & Eelfs?
- 1.37 What's up in Saldaea?
- 1.38 Who was Mat (in his past lives)?
- 1.39 Where have we seen ironic foreshadowing?
- 1.40 Why are we sure that Ba'alzamon is really Ishamael?
- 1.41 When was Rand's Power Acquisition Fever Syndrome?
- 1.42 Sad Bracelets, Mazrim Taim/Logain
- 1.43 What are the Songs (not >the< Song)
- 1.44 Is Mat still linked to the Horn?
- 1.45 What are them icons?
- 1.46 Thought and Memory: Take Two
- 1.47 What did Ogier do of old?
- 1.48 More of the Fain
- 1.49 Jain "McGuffin" Farstrider
- 1.50 Who was "Silvie?"
+ 1.51 Were there Ajahs in the Age of Legends?
- 1.52 Who ordered Melindhra?
- 1.53 Why Moiraine is not Black Ajah
+ 1.54 Will Logain get the One Power back?
+ 1.55 Will Egwene marry Galad? (Gawyn)
+ 1.56 Can Thom Channel?
- 1.57 What is the difference between Skimming & Traveling?
+ 1.58 What's up w/the male-female a'dam link where they both die screaming?
+ 1.59 Is Sheriam Black Ajah?
- 1.60 Who is not a Darkfriend?
- 1.61 What are those black threads on the forsaken?
- 1.62 What do I need to know to be a Blademaster?
* 1.63 Who are Aran'gar and Osan'gar?
* 1.64 Is Mazrim Taim really Mazrim Taim?
* 1.65 Who is Mesaana?
* 1.66 "LTT"--Is he for real, or is Rand loony?
* 1.67 Binding--what's up with that?
* 1.68 Why did Sammael claim he had a truce w/ Rand?
2.0 TRIVIAL PURSUITS: References, Sources, Allusions, Parallels, etc.
- 2.1 Arthur and the Holy Grail
- 2.2 Trolloc Tribes
- 2.3 Is Randland a future Earth?
+ 2.4 Christian Parallels
- 2.5 Various Names
- 2.6 Dragon Legends
+ 2.7 Norse Mythology
- 2.8 Steddings & China
- 2.9 Miscellaneous References
4.0 IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME, BABY
Timeline (not actually in here)
5.0 HANGIN' LOOSE
Loose Threads: Unresolved Stuff
6.0 SOME "SWEET" COVER ART:
What is it with those stupid Darrell Sweet Covers?
7.0 PROPHECIES: Everything you wanted to know about the future, but
were afraid to ask.
+ 7.1 Egwene's Dreams
+ 7.2 Min's Viewings
+ 7.3 Various Prophecies
- 7.4 Dark Prophecy
* 7.5 The propecies of the Dragon.
- 7.6 Perrin's Dreams
99.0 PUBLISHING STUFF
- 99.1 How many books will there be?
+ 99.2 When Is The Next Book Out?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
0.0==============================ADMINISTRIVIA==============================
0.1.................................................Introduction to this FAQ
This is the Wheel of Time Wondrous Masterpiece of Assembled Knowledge
(aka Frequently-Asked Questions list). 'Tis edited and maintained, and
copyrighted by myself, Pam Korda, based upon discussion of The Wheel
of Time series, on the Usenet group rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan.
You may feel free to distribute this document, provided all citations
are kept. This version of the FAQ contains lots of SPOILERS for _Lord
of Chaos_, so if you haven't read, don't read. There are versions of
the FAQ from before LOC (i.e. no spoilers, but some out-dated
theories) in the ftp archive and the WWW site.
rasfwr-j is a very high-volume group, with about 100-200 messages
posted each day. In order to keep things reasonable, this huge
compendium has been created. It chronicles all the "old, discussed to
death" topics, so that people do not have to keep bringing up the same
old points again and again. In light of this, please read this
document before you go posting all your new theories. If you don't
have time to read the whole thing through, that is okay. It is in
electronic form, which means you can use your favorite word processor,
text editor, grep, &c, to scan it for keywords. There is also a
handy-dandy Table of Contents, a few screens up from here. If you have
an idea on Tigraine, for examle, search for "Tigraine," and read what
has already been written. This way, if you agree with what has been
said before, you don't need to waste time saying it again. If you
disagree, you know the points that need to be taken into consideration
when you present your theory to the net. It is to your own benefit to
keep this thing handy for such a purpose.
This FAQ is updated to contain info from LOC, and from questions
answered by RJ at various signings on the post-LOC signing tour.
+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+
Other Submission Requests:
[What topics have been discussed to death and should I include as
'calls-for-submission' for next month?]
[Please help fill out the countries of RandLand]
[anybody wanna do a bit on the old time zones, etc. discussion?]
[The Aes Sedai section needs to be updated for LoC.]
+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+
0.2...............................WHAT ARE THESE JORDAN WHEEL OF TIME BOOKS?
The Wheel of Time, by Robert Jordan:
Hardcover editions:
THE EYE OF THE WORLD ISBN 0-312-85009-3, $24.95
THE GREAT HUNT ISBN 0-312-85140-5, $22.95
THE DRAGON REBORN ISBN 0-312-85248-7, $22.95
THE SHADOW RISING ISBN 0-312-85431-5, $24.95
THE FIRES OF HEAVEN ISBN 0-312-85427-7, $25.95
LORD OF CHAOS ISBN
Paperback editions:
THE EYE OF THE WORLD ISBN 0-812-51181-6, $5.99 ($6.99 CAN)
THE GREAT HUNT ISBN 0-812-51772-5, $5.99 ($6.99 CAN)
THE DRAGON REBORN ISBN 0-812-51371-1, $5.99 ($6.99 CAN)
THE SHADOW RISING ISBN 0-812-51373-8, $6.99 ($7.99 CAN)
THE FIRES OF HEAVEN ISBN 0-812-50974-9
Published by Tor Books
Ask for them at your favorite bookstore, or order the paperback editions
directly from:
Publishers Book and Audio Mailing Service
PO Box 120159
Staten Island NY 10312-0004
To cover postage and handling, add $1.25 for the first book and $.25 for
each additional book. Check or money order only; no CODs.
If you are in Europe, it may be more expedient to pick up the British
Editions published by Orbit (prices are listed in pounds sterling).
THE EYE OF THE WORLD ISBN 1-85723-076-0 (L5.99)
THE GREAT HUNT ISBN 1-85723-027-2 (L5.99)
THE DRAGON REBORN ISBN 1-85723-065-5 (L5.99)
THE SHADOW RISING ISBN 1-85723-121-X (L5.99)
THE FIRES OF HEAVEN ISBN 1-85723-209-7 (L5.99)
0.3................................................WHAT ARE THE CONAN BOOKS?
Jeffrey Scott Raglin reports:
Well, a little bit of research at a local Used Book Store has uncovered for
me the fact that Robert Jordan wrote, not one, not two, not even four, but
rather Seven "Conan the Barbarian" books-one of which was the novelization
of "Conan the Destroyer" (the second Arnie Conan Movie). Having skimmed parts
of several, I can conclude that this is definitely the same Robert Jordan
we know here. As evidence: the opening sentences of five of the books:
Opening Sentence, Conan the Invincible
<CtI, I, 9> "The icy wind whipping through the brown, sheer-walled chasms of
the Kezankian Mountains seemed colder still around the bleak stone fortress
that grew from the granite flank of a nameless mountain in the heart of the
range." [NOTE: not only does Jordan begin this book with a wind blowing,
but he manages to string an amazing total of four consecutive prepositional
phrases at the end of the sentence.]
Opening Sentence, Conan the Unconquered
<CtU, 0,9, Prologue> "Storm winds howling off the midnight-shrouded Vilayet
Sea clawed at the granite-walled compound of the Cult of Doom"
Opening Paragraph, Conan the Magnificent
<CtM, 0,11,Prologue> "Icy air hung deathly still among the crags of the
Kezankian mountains, deep in the heart of that arm of those mountains which
stretched south and west along the border between Zamora and Brythunia. No
bird sang, and the cloudless azure sky was empty, for even the ever-present
vultures could find no current on which to soar"
Opening Two Sentences, Conan the Victorious
<CtV, 0, 1, Prologue> "The Vendhyan night was preternaturally still, the air
weighty and oppressive. No slightest breeze stirred, leaving the capital
city of Ayodhya to swelter."
Opening Sentence, Conan the Triumphant
<CtT, 0,11, Prologue> "The great granite mound called Tor Al'Kiir crouched
like a malevolent toad in the night, wearing a crown of toppled walls and
ruined columns, memories of failed attempts by a score of Ophirean dynasties
to build there." [All right, nothing about the wind here. But I include it
anyway, because A. It's just such a ridiculous image, and B. Tor Al'Kiir is
very reminiscent of Kari al'Thor, which makes the image even more ridiculous.
Besides, the next paragraph goes on to describe black clouds of a storm that
included, among other things "lightning streaking the dark like dragons'
tongues", so there's our weather reference.
[The Opening Sentences of CtDef and CtDes are not nearly as distinctively
Jordanesque, describing the sun rather than the wind.]
0.4.........................................MIS-STEPS (ERRORS ALONG THE WAY)
>>THE EYE OF THE WORLD<<
*It seems to me that early in the first volume Jordan took some time to
decide whether the marsh-forest in the east of the Two Rivers was the
Riverwood or the Waterwood. <Don Harlow>
*In TEoTW, Thom teaches Mat and Rand to juggle. By the time they reach
Caemlyn Mat can perform "six ball circles", which I interpreted as a
six-ball shower. No way. You could probably count the number of people
in the world today who can shower six balls to a performance standard on
the fingers of one hand. Assuming there are any. I've only twice seen
a five ball shower done well. <David Mortman, others>
RE::Jain Farstrider:
From <TEotW: Glossary, 790, entry "Farstrider, Jain", 663> Farstrider
"vanished in 994 NE, after returning from a trip into the Great Blight
which some say had taken him all the way to Shayol Ghul." While <TDR:
Glossary, 696, entry "Travels of Jaim Farstrider, the", 593> says that
he disappeared shortly after the Aiel War, which is about 20 years ago.
Note that even in TEotW, all other indications are that Farstrider
disappeared 20 years ago, just after the Aiel war: Ba'alzamon tells
Rand <TEotW: 51, 760, Against the Shadow, 638> "Jain Farstrider, a
hero, whom I painted like a fool and sent to the Ogier thinking he
was free of me." The man that Loial said came to Stedding Shangtai
telling them the story about blinding the Eye of the World came just
after the Aiel War. Twould seem to be Farstrider since Ba'alzamon's
comments followed a reference to the Aiel that told the story to the
Tuatha'an. So, it seems that the 994 number is wrong. <Joe Shaw>
* Q: What about those Warders in Caemlyn around Logain in tEotW?
Didn't Moiraine say that they were all Red sisters? Reds don't
have Warders! <TEotW: 42, 637-8, Remembrance of Dreams, 535>
RJ answer, as reported by Tony Z: Moiraine never
mentioned the sisters escorting Logain (not all of whom were Red).
The ones with Logain weren't in Caemlyn at the time [evidently they
stayed with the army, which stayed outside the city--TZ]. Moiraine
was referring to those that _were_ in Caemlyn. There is something
explaining this in LoC. Remember that the interleaving of plot
threads goes backward as well as forward. [Side note: I _think_ I know
the reference Jordan was talking about, but I'm not sure I believe it.
Remember when Logain was talking to those Altaran nobles, mentioning
all the Reds that had secretly supported him, apparently under
Elaida's direction. Mentioning this at Siuan's instigation, we all
thought. What if Logain was actually _telling the truth_? Siuan
Sanche will be the most surprised woman in the world. I sort of hope
I'm wrong on this one. Can anyone else come up with another reference
in LoC that might explain this? One mentioning Reds in Caemlyn around
the time of Logain's capture?--TZ]
>>THE GREAT HUNT<<
*Ba'alzamon's goals: <TGH: 47, 665, The Grave Is No Bar To My Call, 563>
"But this time I will destroy you to your very soul, destroy you utterly
and forever." Maybe he forgot <TGH: 41, 588, Disagreements, 497> "Fool!
You will destroy yourself!" where he stopped Rand from burning himself
out. Ba'alzamon is either forgetful, confused, or trying to appear so.
<Morgan Donald Scott>
*Why does Moiraine wear her great serpent ring on her left hand in <TEotW:
2, 27, Strangers, 22-3> and <TDR: 3, 58, News from the Plain, 26> and on
her right hand in <TGH: 4, 46, Summoned, 39>? I can think of four possible
reasons:
a) a cunning plan by Jordan to make us believe sweet,
innocent Moiraine was at the Darkfriend social.
b) Moiraine has an evil, identical twin sister who wears
her ring on the other hand.
c) It's Moiraine's ring and she can wear it on whatever
hand she damn well pleases.
d) none of the above. <Damien Cole>
*When Rand returns Thom's harp and flute to the gleeman in Cairhien,
Thom grumbles: "You could at least have kept it (the harp) in tune"
<TGH: 26, 384, Discord, 323> For travel, harps (and many other stringed
instruments) are ALWAYS detuned -- the tension on the strings is
reduced to prevent string wear and possible snapping.<Erica Sadun>
>>THE DRAGON REBORN<<
*In <TDR: 6, 99, The Hunt Begins, 63>, the beginning at-camp scene,
Perrin tells Min that he loves her like a sister--and that he has no
sisters of his own. In <TSR: 29, 466, Homecoming, 333>, his two
sisters and his brother are killed.<Erica Sadun>
<TDR: 33, 375, Within the Weave, 295> "This road of hard-packed dirt,
already called the Lugard Road now that they were approaching the River
Manetherendrelle and the border of Lugard, had been paved once . . . "
Lugard is a city, not a country, and is the capital of Murandy (to the
extent that disorganized country has one). Since the city does not
lie near that River, I doubt a province or such is meant.<Gary Greenbaum>
<TDR: 41, 477, A Hunter's Oath, 388> Perrin is remembering a confrontation
between Moiraine and Zarine. "Once she learned the girl thought they would
lead her to the Horn of Valere, ...then her cold blue stare had taken on a
quality that made him feel he had been packed ..." Which left me wondering
whose cold blue stare? Both Moir. and Zarine have dark eyes.<Aline Thompson>
The quote continues "The Aes Sedai said nothing, but she stared too often
and too hard for any comfort.", implying that it refers to Moiraine.<JoeS>
<TEotW: 2, 26, Strangers, 22> <TGH: 4, 45, Summoned, 38>, <TDR: 6, 90, The
Hunt Begins, 55>, <TSR: 3, 99, Reflection, 71> and <TFoH: 2, 95, Rhuidean, 68>
all describe Moiraine as having "dark eyes", and <TDR: 33, 386, Within the
Weave, 319>, <TDR: 35, 402, The Falcon, 333>, and <TSR: 2, 54, Whirlpools
in the Pattern, 40> describe Faile as having "dark, tilted eyes".
*Metallurgy Mistake, from John Palmer & Don Harlow
Maybe others have noted this metallurgy mistake, as a engineer this
bugged me. In the Dragon Reborn, when Perrin takes a day at the
Smithy, he notes the three quenching media: "As soon as he had made
the hot-cut, he tossed the glowing metal into the salted quenching
barrel. Unsalted gave a harder quench, for the hardest metal, while the
oil gave the softest, for good knives." <TDR: 50, 595, The Hammer, 506>
Wrong.
In order of resultant hardness, it goes Oil, Water, Salt Water. with
Salt water yielding the hardest blade because of best heat transfer
and higher boiling point than plain water. Oil is softer because of
slower heat transfer but is commonly used for cutlery because it causes
less thermal stresses and a tougher blade. (won't break from shock)
Salt water quench is definitely a harder quench than fresh water. Its
due to the higher boiling point of salt water precluding the formation
of an insulating vapor layer over the steel which slows heat transfer
from the steel to the water.
*Hey, what's the scoop with Shadowman steel? First, Thom Merrilin runs into
a Fade and it left him "a little present of a stiff leg." Then
after the fight where the Aiel come to the rescue of the girls: <TDR:
39, 455, Threads in the Pattern, 382> "Shadowman steel kills,"
Aviendha said, "it does not wound." Finally, Rand's thought
while fighting a Fade: <TSR: 10, 188, The Stone Stands, 132> "That
black metal could make wounds that festered, almost as hard to heal as
the one that ached in his side now." Is there something that I'm
missing, like it just kills Aiel, or does this qualify as a Jordan
mis-step?<Dash Wendrzyk> {NB: the obvious explanation is that the Fade
did not stick Thom with its sword; the Fade just hit him, or something
--Pam}
Jain Farstrider's first name is spelled as Jaim throughout the book,
when its spelled as Jain in TEotW, TGH, and TSR. <Joe "Uno" Shaw>
>>THE SHADOW RISING<<
*Typographical Errors:
<TSR: 8, Hard Heads, 111>
Elayne states that "she had let go of saidin as soon as Egwene
stood to leave." It should be saidar. [Fixed in the pb version.]
<TSR: 16, 262-4, Leavetakings, 183-5>
Loial mentions an Ogier named Laefar from Stedding Shangtai who
is in Tear, but later calls him Faelar a page later.
<TSR: 33, 539, A New Weave in the Pattern, 377>
Perrin calls Tam al'Thor "Master al'Vere"; Master al'Vere being
miles away at that time. <Courtenay Footman>
<TSR: 35, 576, Sharp Lessons, 401>
"Egwene realized Nynaeve's blankets were empty." Unfortunately,
at this particular time, Nynaeve was in Tanchico with Elayne. It
should be Moiraine's blankets that are empty. <Jeff Smith>
<TSR: 54, 913, Into the Palace, 633>
"If only Egwene had not run into any trouble, they might make it
out of here [the Panarch's Palace] safely after all." It should
be Elayne instead of Egwene.
*<TSR: 47, The Trust of a Viewing, 531> During the Tower Coup, Siuan's
Warder gets killed. She doesn't notice until she sees his dead body.
<Michael Hanneman> [Perhaps she was shielded before he died?]
>>THE FIRES OF HEAVEN<<
*In TFoH, on the Cover, we are told that "FLAIDA" (sic) is now Amyrlin.
*Something very strange happened between 10 and 20 years ago. In
<TGH: 4, 58, Summoned, 49> the Amyrlin says to Moiraine "I am the fifth
in a row raised to the Amyrlin Seat from the Blue." Two pages earlier, we
learn that Siuan Sanche has been Amyrlin for ten years. In <TFoH: 15, 301,
What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214>, Moiraine says to Egwene: "In a few
months it will be twenty-one years since we began the search for the Dragon
Reborn. Sieren Vayu was raised to Amyrlin shortly after, a Gray with more
than a touch of Red in her." Were there really SEVEN different
Amyrlins in the space of a dozen years? (The Blue who held the seat
when Rand was born, Vayu, and then the five Blues who ended with Siuan
Sanche.) Or is this just a Jordan mistake?<Courtenay Footman>
*In <TFoH: 36, 578, A New Name, 409>, Birgitte tells Elayne "You saved my
life, Daughter-Heir of Andor. I will keep your secret and serve you as
Warder." But later in <TFoH: 47, 775-6, The Price of a Ship, 550>
Birgitte verbally scolds Elayne for telling Cerandin she was heir to a
throne, and doesn't believe it until Nynaeve makes an offhand comment
in <TFoH: 49, 803, To Boannda, 570>.
*Rand Balefires Rahvin, erasing his actions, etc. However, none of Rand's
injuries, all sustained at the hands of Rahvin, disappear--they were in-
stead Healed by Nynaeve afterwards. <TFoH: 55, 949, The Threads Burn, 672-3>
<Sean Hillyard> [Arguably an effect of either Tel'aran'rhiod or balefire.]
LORD OF CHAOS
Arguably the most humorous error yet: Perrin picks up a second horse
which he calls "Stayer" <LoC: 54, The Sending, 677>. On the way to the
Battle at Dumai's Wells, Perrin has both his horses, referred to, at one
point, as "Stepper" and "Slayer" <LoC: 55, Dumai's Wells, 685>.
0.5........................................WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I'M OBSESSED?
Judy G. gives us intelligent advice on treatment of Jordan fanaticism:
1. Stop calling the nice lady at you local bookstore, and
harassing her about when the next book will be out.
2. Lay down.
3. Stay laying down.
4. Try to not think about things like wheels, knives, spears,
swords, doorways, Piglets, fire, severed hands, plucked out
eyes, tattoos, leashes, calendars, irons, pincers, still images,
gentle breezes, FAQs, Towers, wolves, falcons, hawks, hammers,
axes, Roy, and lastly, DON'T THINK ABOUT RIVERS!
5. Now, pick up a copy of _The Tao of Pooh_ and become an uncarved block.
(p.s. that will be 50 bucks...)
(p.p.s. The idea of not thinking about Roy while laying down
is just a generally good practice , and might be applied to all
the rest of you who won't admit you have a problem ...)
0.6.........WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THOSE CHEAP TOR COVERS THAT WON'T STAY ON?
No, you are not alone in having the cover fall off of your PB copy of TDR.
What can you do about it? Patrick Nielsen Hayden says that you can send the
book to Tor, and they will send you a new copy. You can also write a (snail-
mail) letter of complaint to Tor. The address is on the inside of the books.
DO NOT SEND MEAN E-MAIL TO THE NICE TOR BOOKS MAN!!!! IT IS NOT HIS FAULT!!!
If you want to repair them yourself, Eric Ebinger provides instructions:
Materials needed:
dry sandpaper 220 grit
Walthers Goo (available at finer model train stores everywhere)
one or more Wheel of Time books, Tor edition with loose or detached covers
1. If cover(s) are not yet completely detached GENTLY and carefully detach
them. A small, sharp knife may be helpful.
2. Take sandpaper and briskly sand the back of spine of the book (on the
glue that failed to hold. Continue until the surface is slightly
rough (don't over-sand). This should only take 10-20 seconds of
sanding.
3. Lay the cover down on a flat surface with the outside DOWN. Gently sand
the inside of the binding (where the spine of the book would be,
if the book was still in its cover) until the wax coating is
removed. Do not over-sand! The objective is to remove the wax
coating so that the glue can get a grip.
4. Following directions on the package of Goo, spread glue on the binding
area of the cover. Orient the book so that it's orientation
matches that of the cover. Press the book binding down on the cover,
lift,wait two minutes,press the book binding back down on the cover,
and hold for two minutes.
5. Let dry overnight. The book should be better than new.
0.7................................THE GREAT JORDAN HOAX--READ THIS SECTION!
In March, 1994, a bunch of net.jordanites met in a small restaurant in
Arlington, VA. Collectively, they hatched a scheme to spread chaos and
confusion throughout the internet, and other nets. They were six of
the most powerful posters ever known, who went over to the Dark One.
Their names--Bill "the Fain" Garrett, Chad "Ishamael" Orzel, Joe
"Sammael" Shaw, Mike "Rahvin" Macchione, Judy "Mesaana" Ghirardelli,
and Joe "Demandred" Morris--should be used to frighten children. As a
result of their crimes, much false evidence was generated. Following
is a summary of their false claims as to what Jordan said.
Remember--ROBERT JORDAN NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING:
1) Somebody close to Rand will turn to the Dark Side.
2) There are clues in: _The Westing Game_, "What Lies Hidden," "The Gift
of a Blade," "The Tinker's Sword."
3) RJ thinks we should get our own newsgroup.
4) RJ will put a character like Roy in the next book.
5) Anything about Cain, Jain, Tam, or Graendal's old man.
6) Aram is a Darkfriend (and was at the DS in TGH).
7) There are hidden references to Conan in The Wheel of Time.
8) RJ said "Verin is more than just a simple, absent-minded librarian."
9) Thom is Elaynes' father.
10) RJ will wrap up the series in the book after _Lord of Chaos_.
11) Mazrim Taim is somebody we have already seen, sort of (and related
theories that Taim == Demandred, Taim killed Asmodean.)
12) Thom, Aviendha, Bela, & Marin Al'Vere are not what they seem.
13) Aviendha == Ilyena reborn.
14) Mat's memories are not real, but the ravings of a madman.
15) Mat and Tam can channel.
16) He would add a reference to our USENET discussions into a later book.
17) Jordan wants to put himself in there somewhere (ala Hitchcock).
18) Thought the lightbulb and telephone jokes were a hoot.
19) likes the cover art
0.8.....................Who is Robert Jordan, and what else has he written?
"Robert Jordan" is actually a pseudonym for James Oliver Rigney, Jr.,
under which he has written the "Wheel of Time" fantasy series as well
as several books of the "Conan" series. Other pseudonyms are Reagan
O'Neal ("Fallon" series), Jackson O'Reilly ("Cheyenne Raiders"), and
Chang Lung (contributions to various periodicals including Library
Journal). [Source: Contemporary Authors vol. 140]
1.0===================USEFUL INFORMATION (SHORT ANSWERS)====================
1.1.............................................................JORDAN-SPEAK
RJ gave a talk a while back at Trinity College in Dublin.
Our man on the Scene, Emmet O'Brien reports:
Robert Jordan arrived at 6:00 this evening in Trinity
College for his talk.. this being Ireland, the talk didn't start
for a further ten minutes, but in the meantime he signed books for
those of us who actually turned up on time. The turn out was pretty
disappointing considering TFoH is no. 2 on the best-seller lists
here: only about thirty people were there including SF society mafia.
He didn't have any prepared speech but took questions from
the floor. He still isn't sure how long WoT will go on for, saying
probably seven books but adding that when TEotW first came out he
saw the series as four books.. he does however know what the ending
will be and how all the major story lines will resolve. He expressed
vague dissatisfaction with the covers but didn't seem too upset
about them.
He talked for a while about 'reverse engineering' various
mythos, removing the culture-specific elements and combining the
stories, giving the example of the Wolfbrother idea, which was
derived partly from the Native American Coyote trickster/savior
figure, of whom both Mat and Perrin reflect aspects.
He does not intend to speed up as the end of the series
approaches: the books are planned to come out at the same rate
until the end..
He raised the point that Rand's creeping insanity may
manifest in much more subtle ways than the people of Randland
expect.. which leads one to wonder about Rand's increasing
withdrawal and possible megalomania..
I think he is aware of the net discussion: he expressed
surprise at the amount of analysis and comparison with Tolkien,
Dune etc. [ I felt tempted to mention A. A. Milne ] and somebody
in the audience compared WoT to _Atlas Shrugged_, which really
seemed to surprise him. His attitude is that once he has written
one book [ and publicized it ] it is time to move on to the next..
The only deliberate connection between WoT and any other
modern fantasy was giving the first 100-odd pages of TEotW a
Lord of the Rings-esque flavor, to start people off in familiar
territory.
Specific questions: Lews Therin Telamon's suicide was
emphatically _not_ balefire, but an overload of the Power. And
when Verin was mentioned, he just said he hoped he kept surprising
people.
His first Conan novel he wrote because there was money offered. Having
discovered that it was fun to write Conan, he wrote five more including the
novelization of the second movie, and then spent a year convincing people
that he was not going to write any more Conan.. he was quite adamant on
this point.
His first _novel_ was accepted and then rejected, sold and then rights
reverted to him.. he says he will never publish it as it is not very good,
but keeps it as it seems to be lucky for him..
He regards being taught to read at an early age and reading anything
and everything he could get his hands on as being very important to his
decision to write, and to what he writes and how he writes it.. he writes
Fantasy because it allows more straightforward discussion of good and evil
than fiction set in the modern world.
[ I got the impression that learning to read at age three is considered
precocious in the USA.. just another example of how far you colonials have
fallen.. :-) ]
He also spoke for quite some time on the splitting of the One Power
into male and female halves, and on the disharmony produced when they
don't work together.. this came across as one of the core elements in
the origin of WoT. [ re: Yin/Yang - leaving out the little dots in the
symbol is an intentional representation of the lack of harmony between
male/female Power in RandLand ]
That was about it.. a lot covered for half an hour. There was a strong
impression that more of the books are made up as he goes along than a reading
of all the foreshadowing etc. might lead you to expect..
A thought that occurred to me afterwards.. if at book one he expected
to finish the series in three more books, and at book five he expects to
take two more books, then logically the series should actually end up as
thirteen books..
- Emmet
Tom McCormick claims to have received a letter from RJ. I tend to
believe that his claims are authentic, but it wouldn't be the first
time I was wrong. Anyway, here are excerpts:
I found the compendium fascinating. It is startling how much your
group has puzzled out correctly, but I have to tell you that some of
what you worked out is wrong, concerning both me and the books,
but I have it in mind not to tell you which parts. That way you can
have the pleasure of figuring out for yourselves where you went
astray. (Easy to say that when I'm four or five thousand miles away.)
...
[RE: the time zones thing in TFOH when Rand & Aviendha go to
Seanchan for some MPS] Yes, the timing was calculated. I know how
far to the west Seanchan lies.
...
I have been a writer for seventeen years now, and have had a
number of other books published (Westerns, international intrigue,
historical fiction), as well as essays, dance review and theatre
criticism, but no other fantasy save the Conan novels. I've written
only one piece of short fiction in my life, aside from school
assignments, and it was never published. I will probably write in
those other genres again from time to time; I enjoy them. I am
working on something unconnected with THE WHEEL OF TIME,
though I have not yet begun writing it. (Books percolate about in my
head for a long time before anything goes onto paper.) It will be the
next thing after THE WHEEL is complete. It will be fantasy, in a
different universe than THE WHEEL.
My editor says it will be people's chance to see a society like the
Seanchan Empire, but that is simply because most of the action will
take place in a culture much like Seanchan. The main male
character, who is shipwrecked there, comes from a place that might
he considered a cross between Elizabethan England and the Italian
city-states of the Renaissance with touches of the seventeenth
century. I intend him to be a man in his thirties, a man of some
experience and worldliness in his own culture (though this does him
only occasional good where he finds himself), in contrast to Rand's
innocence and naivete. The major female character is a
noblewoman of the land where he is shipwrecked; by the law,
whatever is cast up on the shores of her estates belongs to her: the
ship, its cargo -- its crew. Of course, a good many details will surely
change between now and the commencement of writing (they always
do), but that is the general form. No working title yet beyond
SHIPWRECK. I expect to do the story in two or possibly three books.
As far as any message to the folks on the net.... It is really quite
an honour to find out that so many of you want to discuss my books in
such detail. Frankly, I'm both pleased and amazed that you have put
so much time and effort into it. Well, I hoped I was writing something
that would hold people's interest; it seems maybe I have.
One thing -- don't think you've reached bottom in your digging. I
tried to make the books fairly simple on the surface, and quite
complex underneath. You've dug up a number of points that I thought
I had buried well enough that they wouldn't come to light for some
time yet (don't expect me to say which ones), and you've also dug up
one or two that I never buried in the first place (no hints there,
either). Jordan's Law, I think, can better be stated along these
lines: "Ah, you think you know how the game goes now? Very good,
gentlemen. What say we increase the bets just to make it
interesting?".
1.2........................................................WHO WAS BEIDOMON?
1) One of the male Forsaken (Demandred? We know he had (has) a deep hatred
for LTT, as did Mierin, possibly, at the time the Bore was created.
Perhaps it was all a revenge plot?)
2) Somebody who is dead.
3) LTT (Why? From <TEotW: Prologue, xv, Dragonmount, xv>: "he who brought
the shadow...they named Dragon." Was lover of Mierin/Lanfear at some
point, maybe when the Bore was created. And, <TEotW: 4, 51, The Gleeman,
44> "I will tell you of the end of the Age of Legends, of the Dragon,
and of his attempt to free the Dark One into the world of men." But,
then again, why would LTT have another name?)
Why LTT is not Beidomon:
It would have adversely affected him after the war broke out. Secondly,
he had likely left Lanfear long before and married Ilyena by that time.
At Cairhien <TFoH: 52, 889, Choices, 629> he does say that he was never
Lanfear's. He also says that he had long before lost whatever interest
in he had her. <TFoH: 6, 172, Gateways, 123>
4) Bayle Domon--No reason, except the names sound the same.
1.3...........................WHY MAY THOM HAVE FATHERED ELAYNE AND/OR GAWYN
Elayne denies that Galad is her brother. Thom was around at the right time.
Thom clearly had something to do with Taringail's disappearance. Thom was
Morgase's lover. In <TFoH: 19, 356, Memories, 252>, Morgase thinks about
Taringail, and how the only good to come of the marriage were "two beautiful
children." This could be Elayne and Gawyn, or she could mean Galad (adopted)
and Gawyn.
Evidence from the Glossary: "A Royal Prince of Cairhien, he married
Tigraine and _fathered_ Galadedrid. When Tigraine disappeared and was
declared dead, he married Morgase and _fathered_ Elayne and Gawyn."
<TEotW: Glossary, 787, entry "Damodred, Prince Taringail", 661>
Although the glossary entries have been misleading before (e.g.
Ba'alzamon), I do not think that RJ has ever lied outright in them. I
personally cannot think of a way that the above could be a sneaky, Aes
Sedai-like twisting of the truth.
In <TSR: 17, 277, Deceptions, 194>, Moiraine says Thom was "Morgase's lover
for a time, _after Taringail died_" (emphasis mine). Here, Moiraine
is trying to impress Thom with how much she knows. She wouldn't
include a detail she had any doubt about. To be wrong about something
in such a situation would indicate faulty research, and Moiraine would
not risk showing any gap in her knowledge. If she had any doubt at
all, she wouldn't have mentioned the timing of events. Plus, Thom
didn't say or think anything to contradict Moiraine's statement.
If Morgase had been having an affair with Thom while still married to
Taringail, it is very unlikely that she would have been able to keep it
entirely under wraps; surely some rumor would have been around, especially
in Cairhien. However, we see no evidence of such a rumor existing.
Specifically, in <LoC: 50, Thorns, 628> when Rand mentions to some
Cairhienin that he means to have Elayne rule Cairhien, the Cairhienin
think she'd be a good choice, due to her descent from her father Taringail
Damodred. Somebody says something like "Taringail's greatest dream was for
his son to be king of Cairhien and his daughter to be queen of Andor." If
Morgase was unfaithful, surely there would have been some doubt as to
Elayne's right to the throne of Cairhien.
In a report from a signing in Seattle, Tony Z. says, "Jordan also
strongly implied that Thom was not Elayne's father."
Surve says: Is Thom Elayne's da?
Yes: 53 No: 28
1.4...........................WHY DO WE THINK THAT THOM WILL MARRY MOIRAINE?
Moiraine says she knows the face of the man she will marry better
than the girls know their future husbands. <TSR: 6, 126, Doorways, 90-1>
This could mean that she will never marry. The reason that seems unlikely
is because, according to Elayne, Moiraine had some passion in her voice
when she mentioned husband, despite her attempts to then brush it off.
After going through the Tear twisted doorway, which only answers personal
questions, she immediately tells Thom that he will live through the
next set of adventures. Thom keeps referring to Moiraine as a good
looking woman with more and more sincerity as time progresses and
discovers he no longer loves Morgase.
Possible scenario: How would she know who it was? Being Aes Sedai she'd
likely have a lot of chances, but here's a guess. When Min describes
how her viewings work her standard example is this; I see two people
who have never met and know they will marry--and of course we had both
Thom and Moiraine in front of her in Baerlon. So, this would also be
the reason why 1) Moiraine was so sure Thom hadn't been killed by a
Fade, despite Rand's and Mat's protestations, and 2) why she tells Thom
"I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon." <TSR: 17, 278, Deceptions,
195> (After her little trip through Rhuidean she may have decided that
perhaps Min was wrong and that Lanfear would kill her.)
Survey Says: Will Thom marry Moiraine, if she is alive?
Yes: 53 No: 28
X-REF: Thom--1.3, 1.5; Moiraine--1.5, 1.27, 1.38, 1.57; Twisted
Doorway: 1.8, 1.10, 1.40,
1.5................................................WHY IS MOIRAINE NOT DEAD?
Well, we don't know what happened after Moiraine & Lanfear fell
through the twisted doorway into the land of the Foxes. Lacking such
information, the only evidence we have is: 1) the breaking of Lan's
bond, suggesting that she is no longer among the living, and
2) Egwene's vision <TFoH: 15, 300-1, What Can Be Learned in Dreams,
214> of Thom pulling Moiraines blue jewel out of a fire.
Ruchira Datta:"One of you would have been bad enough, but two
*ta'veren* at once - you might have torn the connection entirely and
been trapped there." <TSR: 15, 255, Into the Doorway, 178-9> This quote
is the basis for one of the currently held versions of the possible
fate of Moiraine and Lanfear; just substitute "channeling combatants"
for "ta'veren".
More interpretation on Eg's "blue stone" vision:
<mste...@cs.uml.edu> (need a name here) suggests that it could
possibly mean that Thom will do something to preserve her dream
of Rand facing the DO alive and well at Tarmon Gai'don.
In <LoC: Glossary, entry "Moiraine", 710>, it says "She vanished into a
ter'angreal in Cairhien while battling Lanfear, apparently killing both
herself and the Forsaken." That "apparently" definitely leaves the
question open.
Survey Says: What happened to Moiraine?
Dead: 11 Alive: 69 (stilled: 40, unstilled: 29)
Survey Says: Will Thom rescue Moiraine, if she _is_ alive?
Yes: 74 No: 8
X-REF: Twisted Door--1.8, 1.10, 1.40; Moiraine--1.4, 1.27, 1.38, 1.57;
Egwene's Dream--7.1;
Pam Korda
CONTENTS: (* = new this faq, + updated this faq, - same as last faq)
part 1:
0.0 ADMINISTRIVIA
1.0 ALL ANSWERS GREAT AND SMALL
- 1.1 Jordan-speak. Words from the man himself.
to
+ 1.5 Why is Moiraine not dead?
part 2:
+ 1.6 What was up with Gawyn during the coup?
to
+ 1.33 Who are the Forsaken? Where are they now?
part3
- 1.34 All the Aes Sedai
to
+ 1.58 What's up w/the male-female a'dam link where they both die screaming?
part 4
+ 1.59 Is Sheriam Black Ajah?
- 1.60 Who is not a Darkfriend?
- 1.61 What are those black threads on the forsaken?
- 1.62 What do I need to know to be a Blademaster?
* 1.63 Who are Aran'gar and Osan'gar?
* 1.64 Is Mazrim Taim really Mazrim Taim?
* 1.65 Who is Mesaana?
* 1.66 "LTT"--Is he for real, or is Rand loony?
* 1.67 Binding--what's up with that?
* 1.68 Why did Sammael claim he had a truce w/ Rand?
2.0 TRIVIAL PURSUITS: References, Sources, Allusions, Parallels, etc.
- 2.1 Arthur and the Holy Grail
- 2.2 Trolloc Tribes
- 2.3 Is the world of Rand a future Earth?
+ 2.4 Christian Parallels
- 2.5 Various Names
- 2.6 Dragon Legends
+ 2.7 Norse Mythology
- 2.8 Steddings & China
- 2.9 Miscellaneous References
part 5
5.0 HANGIN' LOOSE
Loose Threads: Unresolved Stuff
6.0 SOME "SWEET" COVER ART:
What is it with those stupid Darrell Sweet Covers?
7.0 PROPHECIES: Everything you wanted to know about the future, but
were afraid to ask.
99.0 PUBLISHING STUFF
- 99.1 How many books will there be?
+ 99.2 When Is The Next Book Out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.59..................................................IS SHERIAM BLACK AJAH?
1) PRO: The scene with the Gray Man in the Tower. Nynaeve points out that
Sheriam never once wonders about who killed the Soulless. She acts
rather suspicious in general during that whole scene. <TDR: 15,
187-191, The Gray Man, 142-6>.
CON: She was just being brusque with the kids because she wanted
them to keep quiet. And why _should_ she wonder who killed
him in front of the Accepted?
2) PRO: Mistress of Novices would be a plum position for a Black Ajah,
in terms of recruiting (voluntarily, or through the assistance
of a few Fades).
CON: Just because it would be a good position, doesn't mean the Black
Ajah got one of their own into the job.
3) PRO: Sheriam's also the perfect operative of the Shadow for the
tower-in-exile in Salidar. There were many suspicious things
about her treatment of Elayne and Nynaeve when they arrived in
Salidar. Sheriam seemed to be the most ardent about confiscating
the ter'angreal. It won't be too surprising if it's Sheriam who
gives Nynaeve the hardest time when Nynaeve claims that she's
captured Moggy in Salidar. Sheriam, by her refusal to believe
Nynaeve, will be the reason Moggy escapes.
CON: Again, she's just being Aes Sedai. Why should she let the kids
keep the ter'angreal, or approve of them galavanting about the
glove, instead of studying like they should be?
4) PRO: Egwene's Accepted test: she says something like "He said they
could turn him to the Shadow, against his will. Can they?"
<TDR: 22, 255, The Price of the Ring, 202-3> Sheriam then
tells her about the 13 Dreadlords + 13 Fades trick, but she
doesn't wonder who "he" was. Could she already know, from
the Darkfriend Social?
CON: Why would a Darkfriend tell Egwene about that trick, so that
she'd know to watch out for it?
If Sheriam was a DF, isn't it probable that Halima/Aran'gar would've
attached herself to her, the Keeper of the Chronicles, instead of a DF
Sitter of the Hall? or possibly to both?
1.60................................................WHO IS NOT A DARKFRIEND?
There are several characters who we know cannot be Darkfriends. We
know because jordan has shown us their thoughts when they are thinking
about their motivations, their opinions towards the Shadow and the DO,
or something similarly indicative. These people are:
Rand, Mat, Perrin, Moiraine, Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, Elayne, Elaida (see
Section 1.11), Morgase, Thom, Egeanin, Bayle Domon, Pedron Niall, Dain
and Geofram Bornhald, Siuan Sanche.
1.61...........................WHAT ARE THOSE BLACK THREADS ON THE FORSAKEN?
When Rand battles the male Forsaken, he sees black threads, wires, or
cords running off from them. This is seen when Rand battles Ishy in
<TEotW: 51, 759-62, Against the Shadow, 637-40>, and Asmodean in <TSR:
58, 965-972, The Traps of Rhuidean, 671-675>. So what's the deal with
these strings?
The thick black threads are the Forsaken's connection to the DO. The
connection with the DO is what keeps the male Forsaken from falling
prey to the madness taint of saidin (see Asmodean's statements to
Rand in TSR after his black "thread" was severed). Rand's thread in
TEotW was silver and thinner because it was from that pure pool of
saidin that was the Eye of the World.
We've never seen the threads on a female Forsaken, so it is possible
that the threads are themselves the protection from the taint. Perhaps
they act as a kind of filter on saidin, or a conduit through which the
DO siphons off the taint when the Forsaken draws upon the Source.
1.62........................WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW TO BE A BLADEMASTER?
The Sword Forms, of course! (unfortunately, the Page #s are for PB
versions)
Apple Blossoms in the Wind (tSR, 76)
The Boar Rushes Down the Mountain (tGH, 638-9)
Boar Rushes Downhill (tDR, 651)
Bundling Straw (tGH, 665)
Cat Crosses the Courtyard (tGH, 121)
Cat Dances on the Wall (tGH, 293)
Cat on Hot Sand (tGH, 294)
The Courtier Taps His Fan (tGH, 294)
The Dove Takes Flight (tGH, 665)
The Falling Leaf (tGH, 665)
Folding the Fan (tDR, 418)
The Heron Spreads Its Wings (tGH, 294)
Heron Wading in the Rushes (tGH, 9)
Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose (tGH, 90)
The Kingfisher Takes a Silverback (tGH, 665)
Leaf on the Breeze (tGH, 638-9)
Lightning of Three Prongs (tGH, 638-9)
Lizard in the Thornbush (tGH,294)
Moon on the Water (tGH, 638-9)
The Moon Rises Over the Lakes (tGH, 393)
The Moon Rises Over Water (tSR, 81)
Parting the Silk (tGH, 9)
Ribbon in the Air (tGH, 638-9)
The River Undercuts the Bank (tGH, 638-9)
Sheathing the Sword (tGH, 147)
Stone Falls From the Mountain (tDR, 651)
Stones Falling Down the Mountain (tSR, 81)
Stones Falling From the Cliff (tGH, 638-9)
Striking the Spark (tGH, 665)
The Swallow Rides the Air (tGH, 664)
The Swallow Takes Flight (tGH, 638-9)
Thistledown Floats on the Whirlwind (tDR, 418)
Unfolding the Fan (tSR, 81)
Water Flows Downhill (tDR, 650)
Watered Silk (tDR, 651)
Whirlwind on the Mountain (tSR, 550)
Wind and Rain (tDR, 650)
The Wind Blows Over the Wall (tSR, 185)
The Wood Grouse Dances (tGH, 638-9)
1.63.........................................WHO ARE ARAN'GAR AND OSAN'GAR?
We've been told since TEOTW that the DO is Lord of the Grave. It is about time
he started acting it. In <LoC: Prolgoue, The First Message, 59-61>, we see
"Aran'gar" and "Osan'gar," two minions of the Shadow brought back from the dead
and put into new bodies. It is a good first approximation to assume that they
are re-incarnated Forsaken, and not some random Dreadlords. After all, if the
DO is going to bring people back to life, why not Choose the strongest of his
servants? So, what Forsaken are available for re-incarnation (i.e. are dead)?
Aginor and Balthamel, the Terrible Two from the TEOTW finale, Ishamael, Rahvin
and Be'lal, and possibly Asmodean and Lanfear. Well, Rahvin and Be'lal died of
balefire, and their souls are beyond even the reach of the DO. Asmodean was a
traitor, and the DO apparently lumps him in with Rahvin as having "Died the
final death" <LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 15>, so it probably wasn't him.
Aran'gar is not Lanfear, because of Osan'gar's statement "Lanfear seemed
cautious in contrast [to Aran'gar]." Furthermore, Osan'gar cannot be Lanfear
because his Forsaken-name had been "given in scorn and adopted in pride."
Lanfear was the only Forsaken to have chosen her own nom de guerre. This
leaves us with Aginor, Balthamel, and Ishamael.
Now, Ishamael was not bound like the other Forsaken during the Third Age. He
was "partly bound," or maybe not even bound at all. There are references to
this throughout the series, starting with the prologue to TEOTW, where Ishamael
appears to LTT during the Time of Madness (chronologically _after_ the sealing
of the Bore). However, Osan'gar makes reference to "waking from the long sleep"
with an aged body. The long sleep is obviously the time spent sealed between
the universe and the DO's dungeon dimension. Thus, Osan'gar must be either
Aginor or Balthamel. As to which one, all we really have to go on is his
comment on having helped make the Trollocs and not liking the Halfmen who were
an unexpected effect of that experiment. We know that Aginor was very involved
in creating the various Shadowspawn, and that he was unnerved by Fades,
spending lots of time trying to discover how they "fade." So if we have to
choose one or the other for Osan'gar, I'll say he was Aginor.
Now for Aran'gar. She is extremely upset at being put into a woman's body, and
Osan'gar thinks it is a "fine joke." From TEOTW, we know that Balthamel
enjoyed "the pleasures of the flesh." That is to say, he liked to have his way
with the female sex. Thus, it would be a great joke to put him in a female
body. Furthermore, it is stated that Aran'gar was always rather rash. I
eally wouldn't classify Ishamael as "rash," not with his centuries of careful
planning. So, it is a good bet that Aran'gar was Balthamel. Still, it is not
100% certain; we don't have enough evidence to narrow it down to which of the
two is Aginor and which is Balthamel for certain. And even though Ishamael
probably isn't either of the two, I would bet that he has been re-incarnated
in a similar fashion, we just haven't seen him yet. (Or, maybe we have, but
don't know it :).
1.64OB........................................MAZRIM TAIM--IS HE REALLY HIM?
<reasons nicely compiled by Jared Samet. Contributors Jared Samet, Bill
Garrett, William Smit, John Schwegler, John Novak, Pam Korda, OilCan, and
lots of other folks.>
So, is the Mazrim Taim in LoC the real Mazrim Taim, the Saldean False
Dragon, or is he the Forsaken Demandred in disguise?
Here, MT=the character in LoC, general of the Asha'man. Taim=the False
Dragon we heard about, captured after Falme. Demandred=Forsaken.
A Scenario for MT to be Demandred:
The BA, or a Forsaken, or some Trollocs broke Taim free from where he
was being held in Saldaea. They took him to Semirhage, or someone else
who could extract every bit of information from his skull (a la the AS
Cabriana who Semirhage tortures) and drained him dry. Then they killed
him. Now, Demandred either 1) Looks kind of like Taim in the first
place, or 2) Looks very different from Taim and is using a partial
illusion to look like the real Taim. This is why Bashere isn't sure
that MT is Taim, and why MT says that he shaved his beard.
This also explains why it is MT who brings up the things only he
and Bashere know--to convince everybody that he _is_ Taim.
Then again, MT may really be the original Mazrim Taim. The reason
we think of Demandred when we see him is not because he _is_
Demandred, but because he is similar to Demandred in personality--he
wanted to be the Dragon, he doesn't like being second-best, etc. Taim
could have the ultimate plan of supporting Rand as much as he can,
helping him to win the Last Battle. Since Rand is expected to die in
the Last Battle, Taim plans to bide his time and take control in the
aftermath. After that, well, as MT says, the winners write the
histories.
Here are the indications that MT == Demandred, and arguments against:
1)MT knows too much. The test, how quickly he picks up gateways,
how well he teaches the Asha'man, etc.
ANSWER: He's supposedly been channelling for 15 years. He had to have
learned _something_ in that time. Plus, MT mentions to Bashere that he
used compulsion on two people <LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 76>. Since the real
Taim did that, the real Taim DID know stuff. As for Gateways, maybe Taim
is just a fast learner, like Rand, or Nynaeve. In fact, one's ease of
learning seems to be a direct function of how strong one is in the Power.
(examples: Rand, Ny, El, Eg are all fast learners, and even SS and Moiraine,
who are stronger than your average bear, er, AS, spent a relatively
short time as Novices (3 years?).) This probably has to do with the fact
that, the stronger you are, the easier it is for you to see the flows
required for a particular action, and thus can more readily duplicate it.
2)The Seal. The story about finding it in a Saldean farmer's house
is pretty fishy. Could be that Demandred (posing as Taim) gave it
to Rand in order to try to gain his trust?
ANSWER: If MT is Demandred, why would he, and the DO, give a seal to Rand?
If the minions of the Shadow had a seal, wouldn't they break it? Maybe
the DO could predict that Rand/LTT would try to break the seal, but
Demandred couldn't have. MT was certainly shocked when it looked like
Rand was going to smash it <LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 80-1>. As mentioned,
it could be that Demandred would want to give it to Rand to get him
to trust him, but that failed utterly. Or there could be some
mysterious reason why the DO _wants_ to stay sealed up, at least for
the time being.
3) MT claims to not be affected by the Taint, after 15 years of channeling
<LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 76>. This seems pretty unlikely (cf. Owyn, who
was going mad after only 3 years of seldom channelling at all). The only
Taint protection we know of is linking to the DO.
ANSWER: Unless Taim was a raving lunatic when he was leading his armies
as a False Dragon, he must have still been somewhat sane, even after 15
years. Plus, Logain, who is not a Forsaken, has been channelling for
six years, and isn't going mad. It seems likely that the ease with which
one succumbs to the Taint varies widely with the person. Owyn went under
in 3 years, MT mentions some other guys who lasted for 2 years <LoC: 2,
A New Arrival, 79>, and Logain has lasted for 6 <REF?>.
4) MT's reaction to Rand's badges and awards--not pleased to be seen
as subservient to Rand <LoC: 42, The Black Tower, 543>, just like
Demandred <LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 56-7>.
ANSWER: It is entirely possible that Taim is just plain arrogant. Nothing
says the Forsaken have a monopoly on over-weening pride.
5) LTT thinks of Demandred, and killing him, every time MT is
around. Is there a method in his madness?
ANSWER: Possibly, but again, it could just be that Taim is similar to
Demandred in many ways, and LTT thinks he will betray him like
Demandred did in the AoL. Anyway, LTT is loony. Plus, LTT seems to get
this way about all male channellers who are not him/Rand. <LoC: REF?>
6) The epilogue--"Have I not done well, Great Lord?" The DO's orders
were to "Let the Lord of Chaos Rule," which seems to refer to Rand/LTT.
MT, in building the Asha'man, has certainly helped Rand in gaining
control of the world.
ANSWER: From Sammael's speech with Graendal <LoC: 6, Threads Woven of
Shadow, 135>, we know that Demandred may be involved in the Seanchan
invasion in Tarabon. Maybe this has something to do with it. (If
Demandred is MT and is also involved with the Seanchan, wouldn't it
be necessary for him to "disappear" from the farm in order to manage
his other project? I don't think anybody mentioned anything about MT
vanishing. Maybe some of his recruitment trips were to the west coast?)
Or, John Schwegler points out, Remember the intricate setup that
occurred on the way to the White Tower ... including the Shaido Aiel.
Perhaps Demandred had a major hand in manipulating the Shaido, and
orchestrating a scenario that puts Rand at odds with the rest of the
Aes Sedai(White Tower & Salidar). Neither Egwene nor Elaida will be
pleased to hear that Rand made their Aes Sedai swear allegiance. Or, this
could also have been a set up wrt "Let the LOC Rule"--it got the AS to
swear allegiance to him, plus it probably helped MT gain some favor in
Rand's eyes.
7) MT kills the Gray Man. If he hadn't, Rand might have
gotten information out of it. Alternatively, it could've been a
set-up, since MT gates in oh-so-conveniently just in time to waste
the Gray man.
ANSWER: Doubtful Rand could get much information from a Gray Man.
The Gray Men have no souls--they're
basicly walking killing machines. They probably have some sort of self-
destruct mechanism, too. Jared Samet remarks: "If I were designing a
perfect assassin, I'd set him up so that he could never point the finger
at me. Remember, the Gray Man who comes after Nynaeve in the Tower has a
knife in him the moment they find him. Besides, the gray Man could only
tell Rand anything damaging to MT if Demandred had sent him (possible
I suppose, but why can't Demandred do it himself if thats what the DO
wants?) A Gray Man with a story implicating Sammael or some other Forsaken
(easy enough for a channeler to set up) could help MT more than a dead
one." As for how conveniently MT showed up, recall that strange and
oddly convenient things happen around Rand all the time.
8) MT's remark on "These so-called Aiel". If he hadn't been around in the
AoL, why are they "so-called"? <LoC: 11, Lessons and Teachers, 215>
ANSWER: Well, if Taim knew the old tongue, he might be simply
saying that he doubts the Aiel are truly "dedicated" to Rand.
(weak, I know, but I couldn't think of anything better.) William
Smit says, "Lanfear, who was in the AoL, never doubts that the Aiel
are the same Aiel, she only says "So different than they once were",
so I doubt that Demandred would claim the Aiel were only "so-called""
Then again, it could just be a turn of phrase. Another possible
explanation is that, if Taim is about 35, which seems reasonable, then
he was alive for the Aiel War, although probably too young to go east
to fight. He probably heard tales about Aiel--10 feet tall, breathing
fire, &c. Here he sees some in Caemlyn peacefully patrolling the streets.
Not what an average wetlander would expect of Savages From the Waste.
9) MT is very strong in the Power. Forsaken-class, even (almost as strong
as Rand himself) <LoC: 3, A Woman's Eyes, 92>
ANSWER: The real Taim was thought to be very strong. <REF?> Just
because he's strong doesn't mean he's evil. Nynaeve is Forsaken-
class, but she's on the Good Guys' side.
10) In the prologue, it is said that Demandred never smiles <LoC: Prologue,
The First Message, 15>, <LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 58>.
MT doesn't either - at the end of LoC, before "Kneel, or you will
be knelt", Rand says something like "His expression was as close to a
smile as he had ever seen it."<LoC: 55, Dumai's Wells, 695>
ANSWER: Once again, it could just be that Taim and Demandred have
similar personalities.
11) Min's viewing of an invisible man holding a knife to Rand's throat.
This could indicate that Demandred is the "serpent in the bosom,"
masquerading as Taim.
ANSWER: This could be the Gray Man, as Rand thinks. Or, it could still
be MT, who is not to be trusted, even if he isn't Demandred.
12) LTT says to Rand, (approx. wording), "Yes, we should kill Sammael.
But Demandred first, then Sammael." <LoC: REF?> LTT and Rand know
where Sammael is. But how does LTT propose to go about killing
Demandred if he doesn't know where he is? Therefore, they _do_ know
where Demandred is; i.e., he's MT. (Dash W.)
ANSWER: I wouldn't take anything LTT says too seriously. He wants
to die forever and end his suffering, but he doesn't want to die.
<LoC: REF?> He says "trust no one" and "the man who doesn't trust is
dead" or words to that effect. LTT could be confusing Taim and
Demandred.
13) Bill Garrett says: Something that should maybe be added as a
separate point is MT's whole challenge/submit behavior. He'll argue
with Rand about something, telling him it has to be done another way,
then suddenly he'll agree and say "As my Lord Dragon commands." I
think it's Demandred trying to do things _his_ way, but suddenly
remembering the Dark One's orders to do what Rand says. And MT
sometimes disobeys Rand and frequently does things Rand doesn't
expect, as with the Asha'man.
ANSWER: How is this different from the way the Tairen lords behaved?
Or the Andoran nobility? Or Davram Bashere? Hell, even the Aiel tend
to do this. Everybody tries to convince Rand to do things their way,
but when you get right down to it, he's going to do as he damn well
pleases, and all you can say is "As my Lord Dragon commands."
Another possibility, which hasn't been debated as fully, is that
Demandred was always Taim. I don't know if the time scale is right,
and there are other problems wrt his capture by the AS, etc.
1.65.......................................................WHO IS MESAANA?
<Tony Zbaraschuck, Marc Zappala, Pam Korda)
In LOC, we find out that Mesaana is hiding out in the White Tower
<LoC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 138>. Naturally, this begs the
question of _who_ she is. Some folks think that she has taken the
Rahvin/Sammael/Be'lal/Graendal route, and is posing as a high-ranking
AS in the Tower. The two most-often-mentioned candidates are Galina
(the head of the Red Ajah, and the one involved w/capturing Rand) and
Alviarin (Elaida's Keeper of the Chronicles). The reason for these
guesses seem to be, in Alviarin's case, that she is in an important
position, and thus ideal for controlling the Tower. This reasoning
applies in Galina's place, also, and there is the additional point
that she somehow managed to escape capture at Dumai's Wells
<LoC: 55, Dumai's Wells, 690-695>. However, there is much evidence
gainst Mesaana being either of these two.
1. None of the Forsaken (except possibly Demandred) have copied an already-
prominent identity. Rather, they take a little-known or unknown-identity
and then promote themselves rapidly. This is probably because supplanting
someone is _not_ easy, requiring as it does almost a total control of
oneself, and the ability to copy the tiniest habits. Especially in the
Tower, where Aes Sedai can doubtless read meaning in the tilt of an
eyebrow or the tapping of a finger. And the head of the Red Ajah would
be someone well-known to a lot of Reds, and Alviarin was also an
influential White (she convinced her Ajah to side with Elaida). No real
easy way to replace either one. (Admittedly, Mesaana could just be a very
good actress, but there wasn't really any need for it because of point #4.)
2. The real clincher: we have a Galina POV episode late in the book, where
(among other things) she thinks that Min might be a useful tool to "net
Elaida like a swallow"; "caging [Elaida] would surely weaken Alviarin."
<LoC: 53, The Feast of Lights, 660>. Mesaana doesn't need any tool
to pull down Alviarin; Mesaana can just say, "Call me Great Mistress,"
and Alviarin would be on her knees rather rapidly (or be taught why
doing so was a good idea -- compare with Moghedien revealing herself
to the Black Ajah in TFoH.)
3. As for Alviarin, when Fain tried to steal the dagger she caught him and
asked him "Did one of the For- Chosen send you?" <TFoH: 19, 368, Memoires,
260> No Forsaken would use the term Forsaken instead of Chosen. And if
she WERE Mesaana, she wouldn't just let him go methinks. The DO wants
Fain's hide. (Recall Slayer's original mission in the Two Rivers--to slay
Fain.)
4. From <TSR: 5, 115, Questioners, 82>, we know the way the BA is run:
"Before we left the Tower, I knew only Liandrin, Chesmal and Rianna.
No one knew more than two or three others, I think." [Amico being
questioned by Nynaeve and Egwene.]
From this huge amount of secrecy, we can see that it is possible for
somebody to run the BA from any position within the Tower. Mesaana
(who does seem to be pulling strings there, since it is implied the
capturing-Rand-and-bringing-him-to-the-Tower plot was her plan to get
her hands on the Dragon Reborn <LoC: Prologue, The First Message, 58>.)
could be anybody, an AS, or an Accepted, or a novice, or a maid. Since
it would be much easier to pose as a new student or a servant, instead
of impersonating somebody else, and possibly being caught out.
As an additional idea, it has been suggested that Tarna, the Red emissary
to Salidar is Mesaana in disguise. Not a lot of evidence for this, except
that in the chapter where Tarna talks to Ny & El <LoC: 13, Under the
Dust, 232> the chapter icon is the Forsaken icon, and there is no other
obvious candidate in there to be Forsaken. Of course, the chapter icons
don't always apply 100%, but every other chapter in LOC with that icon
has a Forsaken in [Not exactly: <LoC: 24, Am Embassy, 350> has only
Sammael's emissary to Rand.]. Tarna is good friends with Galina <LoC:
13, Under the Dust, 237>, a known BA and head of the Red Ajah, so this
could be an extensive way to control the Tower with a Red Amyrlin. There
is evidence against this, too--why would Mesaana run her own errands?
The problem of a previous history raises its head, here, too.
1.66...............................IS LTT FOR REAL, OR IS RAND INSANE?
<Carolyn Fusinato>
So, Rand is hearing voices. Is Lews Therin a real entity, or is he a
product of Rand's taint-maddened imagination?
OPTION ONE: Two minds inhabit Rand's body; Rand and LTT. Implies that
Rand is relatively sane still and his problems can be attributed to
stress, paranoia, fear and another mind trying to take him over and
that Lews is completely insane. However, it doesn't make much sense
for LTT to be talking to Rand. If we look at the other people who have
lived past lives, we don't see this happenning. Mat's memories of his
past life/lives are integrated into his own personality. Same with
Birgitte--she doesn't talk to "Marion," she says she was once called
Marion. If LTT _is_ a seperate entity, it could imply that Rand is
just some poor sod who happened to be born into the same body that LTT
was reborn into, and that not Rand, but LTT is the actual Dragon
Reborn. OTOH, it was _Rand_ who pulled the Sword that Ain't, not LTT;
he hadn't even shown up then. There is only one case in which we
definately know that two entities coexist in one body: Ordieth.
However, this wasn't a rebirth. This theory also neglects to explain
the fact that there is no manifestation of LTT prior to Rand
channeling.
OPTION TWO-- b) The LTT personality is the manifestation of Rand's
encroaching insanity. "...everybody has been telling him he is Lews
Therin reborn, so he starts perceiving Lews Therin is in his head. Not
only that, but he finds the voice responds to him. Now he's trying to
carry on conversations with this voice. It all seems logical to us,
but then it seems logical (sort of) to Rand, as well. I found myself
thinking he should tell somebody he was hearing a voice in his head.
When I thought how absurd this sounded, it struck me that I had been
fooled into thinking Rand was still completely sane." (James Beavens,
bea...@holmes.ece.orst.edu) Then, there is also, "He raised the point
that Rand's creeping insanity may manifest in much more subtle ways
than the people of Randland expect..." (from Emmet O'Brien's account
of Jordan's talk at Trinity College in Dublin) This doesn't take into
account that "LTT" knows things that Rand could never have known on
his own--stuff about the AoL, &c. Possibly, Rand's taint-maddened
subconscious could be constructing the LTT voice out of past life
memories like Mat's. That is to say, the memories and knowledge
expressed by LTT are real effects of being somebody Reborn, but the
LTT voice is not, Rand has multiple personality disorder.
1.67................................."BINDING"? WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?
<Summarized by Daniel L. Rouk, edited by Pam Korda>
To fully illustrate the argument that binding refers to the Oath Rod,
check Graendal and Sammaels conversation. Graendal is showing off her
Shara rulers. While discussing the Shara channellers, Sammael asks her
if they 'bind themselves like criminals'. <LoC: 6, Threads Woven of
Shadow, 136>
Sammael thinks he's revealing something Graendal didn't know, but she
thinks about how she found out from Mesaana <LoC: 6, Threads Woven of
Shadow, 138>. We find out Mesaana is in the White Tower. The only
'binding' that we know about that occurs in the White Tower is the
bonds willingly taken by Aes Sedai via the Oath Rod. [Not so: it
could also refer to the AS/Warder bonding.]
Next scene: <LoC: 6, Threads Woven of Shadow, 139-143> Semirhage is
torturing the Aes Sedai, and thinking on how she was 'wronged' because
the Age of Legends Servants didn't understand why she gave a little
pain with her healing. After all, nobody complained when they owed
their life to her. She recollects that she was given two choices, to
be severed, or to accept binding. The actual quote is "to be bound
never to know her pleasures again, and with that binding be able to see
the end of life approach," This illustrates that 'binding' is in fact
as Sammael said, something done to criminals.
>From these two scenes we can pretty well conclude that the Oath Rod is
in fact a tool to restrict criminals. Other aspects of the Oath Rod, such
as if it is one of the mythical Nine Rods of Dominion, are not answered.
If the Oath Rod is simply a punishment device then my opinion is that
it is not a Dominion Rod, and that these are something else.
The second half of Semirhage's comment, "and with that binding be able
to see the end of life approach," has been interpreted to mean that
swearing an oath on the Oath Rod somehow causes one's lifespan to be
shortened, and this is why AoL AS lived longer than modern AS. Another
thing quoted in support of this theory is the Aiel WO who died at age
300 of a snakebite, but looked quite young still. <LoC: REF?> These two
things are not really enough to justify this theory. _Everybody_ in
the AoL lived longer--possibly something to do with the Tree of Life,
or it could simply be that there was better medical care, etc in the
AoL. There has never been any evidence that WOs or Seafolk Windfinders
(who haven't sworn the Oaths) live an inordinately long time, or that
the BA live longer than non-Black AS, or even that ordinary AS live so
much shorter than one would expect. In fact, AS live longer than your
average Joe.
1.68......................WHY DID SAMMAEL CLAIM HE HAD A TRUCE W/ RAND?
<Carolyn Fusinato>
1) Andris died in a pool of blood, delivering the message to Sammael
that there would be no truce and Sammael lied to Graendal. Why would
Sammael lie? All the Forsaken want to be Nae'blis. All the Forsaken
think that Rand stands a chance at becoming Nae'blis if he caves to
the Dark One. Therefore, all the Forsaken want Rand dead. The Dark
One, on the other hand, most explicitly does _not_ want Rand dead. He
will punish any Forsaken who kills Rand. Therefore, all the Forsaken
want to make the other Forsaken paranoid enough to bump Rand off on
their own. This eliminates _two_ contenders to the title of
Nae'blis--Rand, and whichever idiot kills him. (John Novak,
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu)
2) Andris died in a pool of blood, delivering the message to Sammael
that there would be a truce because someone else intervened to put
Sammael off his guard while Rand readies his counter-stroke from Tear
and the Plains of Maredo. Someone who knew that Sammael's emissary was
meeting with Rand at that moment. Who was present? Bashere, a
Saldaean named Hamad, some Aiel, and -- hiding behind a column --
Aviendha. (Don Harlow, do...@netcom.com) CON-Rand should have been able
to feel another man channeling or have experienced goosebumps if
Aviendha channeled, and Sammael's thoughts about manipulating Graendal
<LOC: 23, To Understand A Message, 349> don't make sense if he isn't
lying.
2.0============================TRIVIAL PURSUITS=============================
Diverse references, sources, allusions, parallels, etc...
Robert Jordan says:
"There are elements from Norse, Chinese, Japanese, and American
Indian mythologies, to name just a few. I think it adds resonance to the
story, although I've taken great care not to follow the older material in
any slavish way. Occasionally, I will add in details here or there, and
then discover that I have done something that is absolutely authentic to
the myth I was working from." <From Waldenbooks 'zine _Hailing Frequencies_,
issue #4, reported by Edmund Wong>
2.1..................................................ARTHUR & THE HOLY GRAIL
* Moiraine = Morgaine/Morgan De Fay
* Morgase = Morgause
* Tigraine = Ygrainne
* Egwene = Guinevere
* Artur = Arthur
* Callandor = Sword in stone
* Galad = Galahad _or_ Mordred
* Gawyn = Gawain
* Green Man = Green Knight or Green Man (worshiped by Celts)
* Sa'angreal = San Greal (Holy Grail) or Sang Real (Holy Blood).
* Wound in side = Fisher King (via Bible)
* Nynaeve = Nyneve/Vivian (Nemesis of Merlin)
* Perrin = Parcival
* Merrilin = Merlin
* Lan = Lancelot
* Damodred = Mordred
* Elayne = ?Elaine? (Lancelot's Wife)
* Luthair Paendrag = Uther Pendragon (Now Artur's son vs. his Father)
* Tar Valon = Avalon
* Elyas, Aram, and Demandred's names are all similar to names of
Arthurian knights, but I do not remember the actual names.
Min's vision of Rand's funeral bier:
In the Arthur legend (or at least the version I've read) Arthur is
severely wounded and on his deathbed and Bedivere witnesses his
being taken away on a funeral boat and ferried to Avalon to await
the time when he is needed again. The only others on the ship are
three women: 1)Arthur's half-sister Morgan Le Fay (the sorceress)
2)The Queen of North Galys 3) The Queen of the Waste Land. It is
doubtful that RJ means for Rand's women to mirror Arthur exactly.
It is probable that the women will be Elayne, Min, and Aviendha.
And, of course, the fabulous Sword in the Stone
2.2...........................................................TROLLOC TRIBES
<TEotW: Glossary, 798, entry "Trollocs", 668>
Ahf'frait=Afrits, Bhan'sheen=Banshees, Dha'vol=Devils, Dhai'mon=Demons,
Dhjin'nen=Djinns, Ghar'ghael=Gargoyles, Ghob'hlin=Goblins, Gho'hlem=Golems,
Ghraem'lan=Gremlins, Ko'bal=Kobolds, Kno-gmon=Gnomes Al'ghol=Ghouls.
2.3.............................................................FUTURE EARTH
Survey Says: Is Jordan's world under the Wheel our future earth?
Yes: 52 No: 28
<TEotW: 4, 51, The Gleeman, 43>
John Glenn:
"Tell us about Lenn," Egwene called. "How he flew to the moon
in the belly of an eagle made of fire. Tell about his daughter
Salya walking among the stars." (Eagle has landed.../Lenn may be
a merger of LEM (lunar module) and Glenn)
Salya: Salyut (Russian for star) OR Sally Ride
Moscow, ICBMS:
Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of Fire that could reach around
the world.
America: Merk the other giant.
Queen Elizabeth:
Alsbet, queen of all. (Remains of British Empire/Commonwealth?)
Mother Theresa: Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind
Anne Landers: Anla, the wise counselor?
<TSR: 24, 396, Rhuidean, 277>
Gautama Buddha: Ghoetam under the tree of life
<TSR: 11, 209, What Lies Hidden, 146-7>
In Tanchico Museum at the Panarch's Palace:
1. Stylized Three-Pointed Triangle (reeking of greed & pride)
--Mercedes Benz logo
2. Skeletons of Giraffe and Elephant
<TGH: 49, 678, What Was Meant To Be, 574>
Loial is reading 'To Sail Beyond the Sunset'
<TGH: 47, 660, The Grave Is No Bar to My Call, 559>
"Michael instead of Mikel. Patrick instead of Paedrig. Oscar instead
of Otarin." St. Michael and St. Patrick? I don't know of a St. Oscar.
<TEotW: 24, 357, Flight Down the Arinelle, 300>
Bayle Domon mentions a "mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its
center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes
within a mile of it, dies." This could possibly be a big radio
telescope, or maybe the Age of Legends equivalent.
2.4......................................................CHRISTIAN PARALLELS
(Compare) the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve clans of the Aiel.
In fact, Jordan mentions that there is (maybe) a thirteenth clan. This
clan is credited with building Rhuidean -- the holy place (temple if you will)
of the Aiel. The Israelites also had a people charged with taking care of
the Ark of the Covenant as well as the religious ceremonies within the temple
(especially within the Holy of Holies) and those people were the Levites. A
tribe not counted among the twelve, so in effect a thirteenth tribe also.
Craig Levin points out that the Levites are counted in the 12 Tribes.
It's just that Joseph's descendants split into 2 tribes later on, and
the Levites don't get land, it is our job (theoretically) to care for
the Lord's Temple and other altars across Israel. Which is even
better, since there was the Jenn/other Aiel split, and the Jenns' job
was to take care of Rhuidean/the temple.
Rebirth/Reborn notion of the Savior. (Although this savior is going to
do major damage before defeating the evil one). The blood of the
lamb versus Rand's blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul.Wound in the side
a la the Cross. Sea Folk saying Aes Sedai would wash Dragon's feet with
their hair
Masema = Saul/Paul: Anti-Rand to rabidly pro-Rand. Also, Masema =
John the Baptist--the "voice crying out in the wilderness" proclaiming
the coming of the savior and all that.
Seven Seals = Seven Seals of Solomon? (revelation)
"Peace be on you always," Elyas replied, "and on all the People." He
hesitated, then added, "I will find the song, or another will find
the song, but the song will be sung, this year or in a year to come.
As it once was so shall it be again, world without end."..."Peace be
on you," Elyas said. "And on you," Raen said sadly.
<TEotW: 27, 412, Shelter from the Storm, 346>
The former reminds me of the Catholic (maybe Christian in general -
I'm not sure) prayer called the Glory Be. It goes: "Glory be to the
Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is
now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen." The latter quotes are
reminiscent of the closing of a Catholic Mass, where the priest pronounces
"Peace be with you" and the people respond "And also with you."<J.Vessey>
At Easter mass this past spring, I saw an adult baptized for the first
time in the Catholic faith. They get the person to kneel, pour water over
their head, and say something like "Now you are sealed". I don't recall the
exact words, but "sealed" was in it for sure and I recall thinking Jordan
must be Catholic. Sounds a lot like becoming Accepted to me.<Judy G.>
In <TGH: 26, 387, Discord, 326> we have the prophecy: "twice dawns the day
when his blood is shed. once for mourning, once for rebirth." This is
very similar to the darkening of the sun when Christ is crucified: from
<Luke 23, verse 44-5>: "And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a
darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was
darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst."<Pam Korda>
<Zach Simpson>
Matthew 10:34-36 (TEV)
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No I did
not come to bring peace, but a sword. I came to set sons against
their fathers, daughters against their mothers......a man's worst
enemies will be the members of his own family." cf: TFOH tailer
prophecy: "And what was once did come again--in fire and in storm
splitting all in twain. For his peace...was the peace...of the sword.
In LOC, some of the rumors about Rand say that he was born of a woman
touched by no man <LoC: 2, A New Arrival, 78>.
2.5.............................................................RANDOM NAMES
Ba'alzamon = Ba'al or Baelzebub
Sammael = Either a member of Lucifer's host, or another name for
Lucifer himself (depending on one's source)
Graendal = Grendal from Beowulf
Rahvin = Raven harbinger of evil (Native American Loki
figure?)
Lanfear = French l'enfer--name for hell.
Shai... . = (well you KNOW who this is) : Satan
[Will Baird notes:Shai...is the Muslim name for
Satan literally.]
Be'lal = Belial, Biblical demon, Old Testament
Asmodean = Asmodeous, Biblical demon, Old Testament
Tarmon Gai'don = Armageddon, Book of Apocalypse
Paaren Disen = Paradise, Biblical Genesis
Wild Hunt = Wild Hunt, of Christian or Celtic legend
Bel Tine = Beltane, a Druidic holiday
Shayol Ghul = Sheol, Hebrew for hell; Ghul->Gol or Gul, Arabic
for Demon.
Semirhage = Legendary Assyrian queen Semiramis, noted for her
depravity (see Herodotus) [thanks Tony Z!]
LTT/Lord of
The Morning = Lucifer--the morning star?
Myrddraal = ?Murder All?
Lothair Mantelar = (Founder of Children of Light)= ?MARTIN LUTHER?
Aginor = "Recently, a friend of mine had to read the _Iliad_.
(Homer's story of the Trojan War) In Book 21,
a character named Agenor attacks Hektor, and is
defeated. Not much is said about him (Agenor) other
than that he is "blameless and powerful", and knew
that Hektor was stronger than he was. He attacked
anyway, figuring that while Hektor was much more
combat-capable, Agenor had the gods on his
side, not to mention the fact that even the powerful
make mistakes. In a few minutes, Hektor defeats
Agenor, and Apollo surrounds the loser "in a thick
mist", and transports him back to Troy. Some
interesting parallels between this an TEotW's final
battle: Both Aginors knew that his opponent was more
powerful Both were full of pride Both attacked
anyway." <Mike O'Malley>
Birgitte = Brigit, Celtic goddess of fire and something else...
Ishamael = Ishmael: In Genesis, Abraham's eldest son (to an Egyptian
serving girl Hagar) was called Ishmael. Apparently
Abraham's wife took a disliking to young Ishmael and
pressured Big Ab into exiling Ish and Hagar into the
desert. There is a quote about "every hand raised against
him" some-where but I can't remember it.
Mesaana = Possibly from Messalina, the notorious third wife of
Tiberius Cladius Drusus Nero Germanicus, Emperor of Rome.
Selene = Selena, a Roman goddess of the moon.(Hence the icon)
2.6...........................................................DRAGON LEGENDS
<Randy Cerveny>
Taken from Man, Myth and Magic (volume 5, pages 693-4):
"The most striking of these is that the dragon in China is not, as in
the West, a representative or symbol of the powers of evil. On the
contrary, according to the old Chinese Book of Rites, the dragon as
the chief of all scaly animals is one of the four benevolent spiritual
animals. This reflects the general principle stated by Jung that
'every psychological extreme secretly contains its own opposite,'
which is expressed in Chinese thought through the classical doctrine
of Yang and Tin. That this principle underlies the dragon's
transformation into a beneficent being is confirmed by Wang Fu's
statement that the dragon's scales number 117, of which 81 are imbued
with Yang and 36 with Yin, because the dragon is partly a preserver
and partly a destroyer. Yang is also the male element and, as its
representative, the dragon also became at an early period a symbol of
the Emperor, and appeared on the Chinese flag. During the Manchu
dynasty, the dragon was held in especial esteem, and everything used
by the Emperor was described in terms of it: there was the dragon
throne, dragon bed and so on.
"Although Chinese dragons appeared at favorable moments to presage
periods of prosperity, and had been known to emit foam which had
supernatural powers of fertilization, they could also, when offended
or disturbed, cause a drought by gathering up all the water of a
district in baskets, or they could eclipse the sun. To propitiate
them, the Chinese flew dragon kites, especially at the mumming parade
in the New Year."
2.7..........................................................NORSE MYTHOLOGY
<Greg Wheatley, Chad Orzel, Jonathan Vessey, Erica Sadun, Pam Korda>
1) MAT & ODIN: Has anybody failed to notice that Mat is being set up as Odin,
complete with wide brimmed hat, a spear with ravens drawn on it which
are named "Thought" and "Memory", coincidentally enough the names of
Odin's ravens and will in the future almost certainly lose an eye?
Also, it seems to me there was a Norse myth involving Odin agreeing
to be hung from Yggdrasil (or some other unpronounceable Norse thing
like that) in order to gain wisdom or power or both (he really went
in for this self-sacrifice thing...)- a definite parallel to Mat
being hung from the Tree o' Life in Rhuidean.
2) MIDGARD SERPENT: wound around the roots of above tree, often envisioned as
a symbol of eternity--a large serpent swallowing its own tail. Sound like
any famous Aes Sedai jewelry we know?
3) HEIMDALL'S HORN: Heimdall's job was to guard the Rainbow bridge into Asgard
against the Giants. During the Last Battle (Ragnarok), he was to blow the
horn to signal the arrayed gods and _dead heroes_ that it was time to
fight. cf. Horn of Valere. Granted, there are differences - the Heroes
are bound to the Horn and not to a specific cause,and they live in T'A'R
rather than the afterlife as such (where they'd fight all day, cutting
each other to pieces, then get healed at day's end. Always got a kick
out of that - sounds like a real heavenly afterlife to me), but the
concept of dead heroes waiting around for the final battle stays the same
4) BAD GUY UNDER THE MOUNTAIN: Here is the origin of the archetypical
Evil Dude Imprisoned in a Mountain. Loki, the Norse "Evil God,"
(more properly the god of chaos, but he was the antagonist of the
other gods) was chained up in a cave after he killed the god
Baldur.The legend
was that he would escape or be freed just before Ragnarok.
5) PERRIN = THOR?? Is it just coincidence that Perrin is impressively
muscled and has a big hammer, just like a certain Norse god of
thunder?
6) RAND = TEW/Tyr: Tew was a Norse god of war and of justice. This is a
parallel with Rand bringing strife to Randland, and with his concurrent
attempts to rule justly and by the rule of law. Tew's arm was
snarfled off by the monstrous wolf Fenri (Perrin?) when the gods
chained him. (The gods thus defeated one of their greatest enemies, at
the loss of one of their greatest assets, Tew's right (fighting) hand.)
More evidence for Rand losing a hand.
RJ said at a signing in Atlanta that he deliberately made Mat like
Odin and Rand like Tew/Chew.
2.8........................................................STEDDINGS & CHINA
The Ogiers seem to have named their steddings after places in China:
Shangtai = Shanghai, or Taishan (one of the sacred mountains) backwards.
Cantoine = Canton (But "Canton" is not really "Canton" -- it's "Guangzhou".)
Taijing = Beijing, or some combination of any number of places whose
names start with Tai (Taishan -- see above -- Taiyuan, etc.) and any
number of capitols/ former capitols (Beijing, Nanjing ...)
(Above two stedding mentioned in <TGH: 36, 520, Among the Elders, 439>
Tsofu = An unfortunate tasteless high protein food?
2.9..................................................MISCELLANEOUS REFERENCES
1) Birgitte in Conversation:
Maerion: Maid Marion
Mathena: Athena/Artemis
Zheres: Teiresias? Orion?
Actually, it was the goddess Artemis who turned the hunter into a stag so he
would be killed by his dogs, after he saw her bathing. Athena was also
surprised by Teiresias while bathing, but she blinded him and gave him the
gift of second sight in return.
2) Birgitte's silver bow seems straight out of Greek Mythology. Artemis
had a silver bow, to match her brother Apollo's golden one.
3) Sammael == Napoleon? Sammael is described as a great militarist. He is
short. His symbol is the golden bee, same as Napoleon.
4) Fisher King--a king in the legend of Parsival who had an unhealable wound
corresponding to the woes of his land. cf Rand's side wound which is not
Healable.
5) The history of the da'shain Aiel is based on the history of the
Cheyenne Indians during their several-generation migration from east
of the Great Lakes to the Rocky Mountains -- a period in which every
man's hand was raised against them. Similarity between words 'shain'
and 'Cheyenne' noted by me after hearing this.<Don Harlow at a signing>
6) The sword forms: It's research, and the forms come from Japanese
swordfighting and some European fencing, before the advent of
well-designed and well-made guns made swords obsolete. He mentioned
one book in particular, but I can't remember the title. <matthew
hunter at a signing, also mentioned by others>
4.0================================TIME-LINE================================
>>(Still) Under Construction<<
>>Thank you for your patience<<
>>maybe I'll get to it over Christmas Break<<
Pam Korda
PART 5 of 5 of the WOTFAQ. here be spoilers.
CONTENTS: (* = new this faq, + updated this faq, - same as last faq)
part 1:
0.0 ADMINISTRIVIA
1.0 ALL ANSWERS GREAT AND SMALL
- 1.1 Jordan-speak. Words from the man himself.
to
+ 1.5 Why is Moiraine not dead?
part 2:
+ 1.6 What was up with Gawyn during the coup?
to
+ 1.33 Who are the Forsaken? Where are they now?
part3
- 1.34 All the Aes Sedai
to
+ 1.58 What's up w/the male-female a'dam link where they both die screaming?
part 4
+ 1.59 Is Sheriam Black Ajah?
to
* 1.68 Why did Sammael claim he had a truce w/ Rand?
2.0 TRIVIAL PURSUITS: References, Sources, Allusions, Parallels, etc.
part 5
5.0 HANGIN' LOOSE
Loose Threads: Unresolved Stuff
6.0 SOME "SWEET" COVER ART:
What is it with those stupid Darrell Sweet Covers?
7.0 PROPHECIES: Everything you wanted to know about the future, but
were afraid to ask.
99.0 PUBLISHING STUFF
5.0==========================UNRESOLVED PLOT STUFF==========================
<Jocelyn>
Perhaps a list of all the plot threads currently being juggled would be a
handy item to have in the FAQ, eh Pam? Help us keep up with things! :)
okay, fine. here is a list of main plots under development,
prophecies which have a direct bearing on them (for more prophecy, see
the prophecy section.), certain unresolved questions, and other stuff
that may occur, or may not.
<from Tony Z.>
I felt that the following might be interesting. It's an extraction of
material from GEnie (posted with poster's permission), listing all the
loose ends and so forth that still need to be tied up,
---begin extract---{edited at my discretion--Pam}
{"Marcus says:"}
* Mat & the Daughter of the 9 Moons.
* The Seanchan return has been in the background for 3 books now. It's gotta come
out in front sometime.
* Perrin & Faile' marriage problems.
* The Tower AS vs. the Salidar AS, and Rand getting them to swear to his side.
* Masema the Prophet needs to attended to.
* Morgase's adventures in the Fortress of the Light, and Pedron Niall's various
plots and plans.
* There are still Shaido wandering around loose that might end up on the
Dark One's side.
* Anti-Rand rebels in Tear/Cairhien.
* The tinkers and the way of the leaf (poss including the rebirth of the Nym)
{possible finding of the Song, Perrin choosing Hammer/Axe--Pam}
* Berelain's mysterious man in white
* Rand and Elayne, Min, & Aviendha
* Lan and Nynaeve & Valan Luca
* Egwene's relationship w/ Gawyn.
* (possibly) Cleansing the taint
* Birgitte and Gaidal Cain
* The rest of the heroes of the horn, the horn itself
* The Sea Folk and their Coramoor
* A woman using the awful big sa'angreal
* Callandor, and this unknown more powerful sa'angreal (for men) {possibly may
not exist--Pam}
----
<don't have the name, here.>
* Don't forget to add Bayle Domon and Egeanin speeding off to drop the
sad bracelets in the ocean.
---------
<Pam Korda>
* is Verin Black?
* what happened to Moiraine & Lanfear in A/Eelfland?
* Who killed JoaR? (sorry, couldn't resist :)
* Thom & the Red Ajah, and whatever else was in Moiraine's letter
* Padan Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith
* Moghedien
* possible re-appearance of Liandrin
* Perrin & Slayer
* Perrin's wolf vs. human internal conflict (possibly related to hammer/axe),
and possible re-appearance of Elyas Machera
* Aram, The Tinker with the Sword
* The destruction of the Aiel
* The rest of the Forsaken: Mesaana, Semirhage, Demandred, Graendal, Sammael
* Mazrim Taim, and his likely betraying of Rand.
6.0===========WHAT IS IT WITH THOSE STUPID DARRELL SWEET COVERS?============
<Roy Navarre, Thomas Petersen, John Hansen, Joe Shaw, Erica Sadun,
Pam Korda, Don Harlow, etc.>
Patrick Nielsen Hayden (p...@panix.com) wrote:
: Darrell Sweet is a careful reader and an intelligent man who skillfully
: paints what his clients ask him to paint; please don't blame him for the
: decisions of others.
Well, who can we blame for the cover fiasco, then? :) -- Geoffrey Wiseman
TEotW: THE GANG HEADS OFF TO TAREN FERRY
1. Moiraine the Midget and Moiraine's Horse the Dwarf Pony (The text refers
to the lad being amazed at the sight of the huge horses (plural) ridden by
Lan and Moiraine--the biggest he had ever seen.
2. Moiraine's dress is supposed to be a darker blue than her cloak.
3. Lan with a Mustache and Goatee?
4. Lan in Seanchan armor? Lan isn't wearing his color-fading cloak and
instead is wearing plate mail. Lan should not be wearing plate mail.
5. Lan with TWO swords?
6. Moiraine is really UGLY and is wearing White eye shadow to boot - ugh!
7. Moiraine's hair is light brown--not dark.
8. All the horses are wearing ornamental bridles/saddles-what nonsense!
9. No saddle bags on any of the horses.
10.Everyone is wearing particularly STUPID clothing -- Rand with that weird
Robin Hood collar, Moiraine in that awful blue cloak, Perrin's
feather!?, etc.
11.Rand's face changes from the cover to the inside picture.
12.Egwene on the outside cover is blond. (Everyone except Rand from 2 rivers
has dark hair, dark eyes).
13.The Draghkar is just a bat.
14.The moon is portrayed with far too many degrees of arc for the sky.
15.Thom (little itty bitty Thom) is wearing multicolored clothing but NOT
a cloak!
16.Perrin's ax (see inside picture) is the wrong shape. (See the description
in the first chapter: two/halfmoon-blade counterweighted).
17.Egwene's hair is wrong (should be braided), and so is Moiraine's (should
be loose, not in that elaborate 'do).
18.There's an extra guy in the party! Who is that fellow way at the end? Jain
Farstrider? {M. Hunter, at a signing reports: "The covers aren't
as bad as we thought they were. The 'extra' character in TEotW really
was in the book, but was cut out later, because he had too little to
do. His parts were distributed out to the other characters, but they
never got around to cutting him from the cover.">
Timothy Bruening: On the front cover of tEotW, Moiraine is sitting
crosslegged on a horse. How does she stay on?
Patrick Nielsen Hayden: Remember all that glue we saved by not
attaching the covers firmly enough? Well, it had to get used
somewhere.
TGH: RECAPTURING THE HORN
1. Rand (changing his face again) is way way too short and stocky. He is
also wearing a really gaudy sword belt. His hair, for some reason
has gotten a lot of body (perhaps all that Clairol) and seems
almost curly,and it is not red. His clothes are totally wrong, too.
The sword is supposed to be curved, as is the Shadar Logoth dagger.
2. Loial's ears are not hairy, way too large and Loial himself is only about
four feet tall!. His boots are just awful: what if it rains? He'd
walk around with about a gallon or four of extra water in the
decorative birdbaths of those boots.
3. Selene (Lanfear) is wearing one of those dopey dresses -- this one
with a ton of elastic banding. Do they have elastic in the third
age or is this another lost art of the Age of Legends. She is not very
good looking.
4. Assuming that this is the scene where Rand steals back the horn from
Fain, (a) where is the sniffer? (b) why isn't the horn in a box?
(c) where is the (big enormous) box? (d) why has Loial brought some
pleasure reading for fighting off Trollocs (maybe its Dickens)
(e) Why are the Trollocs humans with horns on their helmets? C'mon!
(f) Why are Trollocs so short, well armed and well armored? (g) Isn't
it the wrong time of night to have just gotten the horn back
anyway?
[John Hansen adds:
This can only be the scene where Rand steals back the horn. When he and
Loial arrive back at their camp, Rand sends Hurin off the "outcrop" to
look at the activity down below. The horn is in a large ornate gold chest
that is strapped to the saddle of Loial's huge fetlocked horse. Selene
reaches up and opens the chest pushing the lid up and letting it fall open.
On her tip-toes she reaches into the chest and Rand quickly reaches over her
shoulder and lifts the horn out of the chest. It is full night and the
moonlight glimmers on the horn (which looks like it was drawn correctly).
No Trollocs are anywhere near at this point. After a moment Rand returns
the horn to the chest and after further discussion about the curved dagger,
he puts it in as well and closes the chest. So, the scene (if accurate)
should have a large horse and a gold chest in it.]
TDR : RAND PULLS THE SWORD FROM THE AIR
1. Rand (hair and face changed once AGAIN) is standing in the middle of a
large hallway where Callandor hangs mid-air. Isn't this just
a little inconvenient? What about dusting the sword or people
wandering by every now and then? Don't you think it deserves
a room or a niche of its own rather than hanging in the middle
of the hallway?{Actually, this is right. It is described as hanging
right in the middle of the Heart.--Pam}
2. Perrin (straight hair now, hair too light, held back in Rambo style
but muscles correct) is holding yet ANOTHER ax -- this a little
more correct. Mat in really sissy clothing and wrong hair is
looking on as well. Pardon me, but weren't these guys doing something
else when Rand was picking up the sword? Weren't Be'lal, Moiraine
and Ba'alzamon on hand for the Young-Arthur imitation?
3. The Aiel here look pretty classy, but the buckler in the book is strictly
leather and not this copper stuff. Also, this Aiel has black hair!
C'mon: Perrin with light hair, Aiel with black hair and dark
complexion?
4. On the very side of the book is a picture of I suppose Ba'alzamon. Boy
is he ugly or what? And wearing that Blue and Purple hat? I wonder
what he had to do to pick out something that matched his glowing
teeth so well. Why would anyone's teeth glow? Too much fluoride?
TSR : BREAKFAST AT RHUIDEAN
1. Rand's now wearing Perrin's headband and has tied his jacket to his
shoulder. Boy that must be uncomfortable! And must keep those
orthopedic and reconstructive surgeons real busy. He is again really
way too short.
2. Mat has picked up archery again along with a different face. Archery?
3. The peddlers seem to have stolen a tinker wagon.
4. Who's the ugly babe making dinner? Aviendha? Wrong hair. Who else would
wear a dress? A blue dress? NO! SAY IT ISN'T MOIRAINE!?!!!!
Cooking dinner for the Boys?! Sheesh. (It could be Isendre but
she is way way way too ugly for that). Anyway, she looks like a
monkey.
5. Who's that leather guy on the left of the wagon? Where did all that
leather come from out there in the desert? And check out the
toy Trolloc that someone has stuck in the rocks above Rand's
right hand shoulder.
TFOH: FUN IN THE SUN AT CAEMLYN
Erica S:
Well look at TSR. Mat & Rand seem to have switched roles again.
At least Aviendha does look pretty pretty but her hair is way way
too long. What's the DEAL with the foxhead. Only one eye please and
about the size of the palm of the hand. Worn against the skin too
so we're not seeing it. Rand is way too short and he's been at the
Prell or VO5 again... Mat does NOT have red or reddish hair. EVERYONE
(except Rand) from 2-rivers has dark eyes, dark hair. Why are tricksters
always supposed to have red hair? Does Mr.Sweet ever read a book?
Pam K:
Of course the cover art is truly awful; although Mr. Sweet finally got the
coats right-ish. Rhuidean doesn't look TOO bad; and the Trollocs actually
look beast-ish, as opposed to men-with-horns-on-their-helmets (TGH). but,
all the people look goofy, esp. Mat w/ his Clint Eastwood hat. Ah well, I
suppose I can take the paper bit off. Back to reading!
Jenny Foss:
What is that hat Mat is wearing? He looks like Crocodile Dundee. "That's
not a spear! THIS is a spear!"
LORD OF CHAOS--PASSION OF THE AES SEDAI
I looked at the cover of LoC in Locus. I think it sucks. It looks like
a romance novel. Passion of the _Aes Sedai_, or _Untamed Aiel_
or something.<David Wren-Hardin>
(1) The flying being in the upper right remains
(a) a draghkar;
(b) a pterodactyl;
(c) Dracula
(d) Seanchan flying-thing.
I would vote for (a), but, given the influence of _Jurassic Park_ this
past year, I would not reject (b) out of hand. {Note that whatever it was,
it was _not_ in the depicted scene--pam}
2) From this picture, we can conclude that Rand
(a) plays fullback for the New York Jets (the team that Flash Gordon
quarterbacked);
(b) suffers from a mild case of acromegaly, brought on (like hair on
the palms and premature blindness) by adolescent channeling
("Look, ma, no hands!") inspired by too many reruns of _Weird
Science_;
(c) is the offspring of a marriage not of Tigraine and Djanduin but
of Richard Kiel and David Warner.
(d) Has yet another face, this time it is the face of Andre the Giant.
(3) The emblem on the back of the black cloak is obviously
(a) a dragon having sex with the Daily Planet's world-globe;
(b) a chapter icon, illegally copied by the Aiel and used on a
commercial product (a cheap black cloak);
(c) a mandala from _The Dao of Jordan_.
(d) some sort of Deadhead sigil.
(e) A Safeway symbol
4) The woman, one supposes, is one of the AS swearing an oath of
fealty to Rand. However, she looks more like she is sniffing and
calling him a wool-headed, hairy lummox of a man, thinking with the
hair on his chest, than like she is swearing eternal obedience.
5) Looking at the cover, I felt the title should have been "The Green Ajah's
Burning Desires" or something. The way those two are looking at each
other I keep expecting to read about 'smoldering eyes' and 'throbbing
loins' and whatnot.<Julie Kangas>
It's not that. It's that Rand is posed like Elvis. Imagine a microphone
is his right (clenched) hand, and you can just see him waggling his
pelvis. His facial expression even looks like he just said "uh-huh".
And Kiruna the Groupie is swooning over the King.<Keith Casner>
6) The back of the cover, however, is way cool, with all the dead guys
and burned wagons. Kudos to Sweet for that one. Tor Should've put that
one on front.
-----
Tony Z:
This whole cover art thing has been bothering me since I first layed eyes
on the cover of TEotW. Darrell K. Sweet had always been my favorite cover
artist! He's done covers for the Lord of the Rings (2 different editions,
both which I liked), 2 editions of Thomas Covenant series (all 6), the
second of which I thought were incredible; he's done all of Terry Brooks'
stuff (I think--most of it anyway). My point is, what's with him? I can
hardly tell it's by the same guy! Does anyone know anything about him, and
why his work is degenerating so?
For more groovy D.K.Sweet cover art, check out some Piers Anthony
books, L. E. Modesitt 's "Recluse" books, some Barbara Hambly books,
some Pratchett books (US editions), The Riddlemaster of Hed books, the
man is everywhere!
7.0========================READERS GUIDE TO PROPHECY========================
7.1..........................................................EGWENE'S DREAMS
<TGH: 12, 213, Woven in the Pattern, 180>
She saw Rand sleeping on the ground, wrapped in a cloak. A woman
had been standing over him, looking down. Her face was in shadow,
but her eyes seemed to shine like the moon, and Egwene had known
she was evil. Then there was a flash of light, and they were gone.
Both of them. And behind it all, almost like another thing
altogether, was the feel of danger, as if a trap was just beginning
to snap shut on an unsuspecting lamb, a trap with many jaws." <YES,
this is where Lanfear takes Rand & co into the Portal stone world
in an attempt to bring Rand under her control>
<TDR: 25, 290, Questions, 233-4>
She had dreamed of Seanchan, too, of women in dresses with
lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line
of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call
lightning against the White Tower.(NO) That had started her
awake in a cold sweat, but that had to be just a nightmare, too.
And the dream about Whitecloaks binding her father's hands.
(YES--Master Al'Vere was powerless to act against the WCs until
Perrin came along)
<TDR: 25, 290, Questions, 234>
There had been a dream of Rand, reaching for a sword that
seemed to be made of crystal, never seeing the fine net
dropping over him.(YES) And one of him kneeling in a chamber
where a parched wind blew dust across the floor, and creatures
like the one on the Dragon banner, but much smaller, floated
on the wind, and settled into his skin.(YES) There had been a
dream of him walking down into a great hole in a black mountain,
a hole filled with a reddish glare as from vast fires below,(NO)
and even a dream of him confronting Seanchan.(NO, at least not for
the last time)
<TDR: 25, 290-1, Questions, 234>
Perrin with a falcon on his shoulder, and Perrin with a hawk.
Only the hawk held a leash in her talons--Egwene was somehow
convinced both the hawk and falcon were female--and the hawk
was trying to fasten it around Perrin's neck.(YES, but maybe
more to come) That made her shiver even now; she did not like
dreams about leashes. And that dream of Perrin--with a beard!
(YES)--leading a huge pack of wolves that stretched as far as
the eye could see.(YES--@Dumai's wells, but probably not for the
last time.) Those about Mat had been even nastier. Mat, placing
his own left eye on a balance scale.(NO) Mat, hanging by his neck
from a tree limb.(YES) There had been a dream of Mat and Seanchan
too but she was willing to dismiss that as a nightmare.(NO) It
had to have been just a nightmare. Just like the one about Mat
speaking the Old Tongue.(YES) That had to come from what she had
heard during his Healing.
<TDR: 37, 423, Fires in Cairhien, 352-3>
She had dreamed of Perrin with a wolf, and with a falcon, and a
hawk -- and the hawk and falcon fighting(YES) -- of Perrin running
from someone deadly,(SLAYER?) and Perrin stepping willingly over
the edge of a towering cliff while saying, 'It must be done. I
must learn to fly before I reach the bottom.'(Probably not, but
may refer to him mastering his wolf-brotherhood, or being a battle
commander) There had been one dream of an Aiel and she thought
that had to do with Perrin too, but she was not sure.(YES) And a
dream of Min, springing a steel trap but somehow walking through
it without so much as seeing it.(YES--the Tower Coup) ... Mat
with dice spinning 'round him ...(YES) Mat being followed by a
man who was not there ... or maybe more than one, but in some way
there was no one there(YES)... Mat riding desperately toward
something unseen in the distance that he had to reach(YES-Going
to save El/Eg/Ny in Tear), and Mat with a woman who seemed to be
tossing fireworks about(YES-Aludra). An Illuminator, she assumed,
but that made no more sense than anything else. Men and women
breaking out of a cage, then putting on crowns.(YES-Forsaken) A
woman playing with puppets, and another dream where the strings on
puppets led to the hands of larger puppets, and their strings led
to still greater puppets, on and on until the last strings vanished
into unimaginable heights(probably just symbolic of the various
degrees of manipulation going on). Kings dying, queens weeping,
battles raging. Whitecloaks ravaging the Two Rivers(YES). She had
even dreamed of the Seanchan again.
<TDR: 48, 553, Following the Craft, 468-9>
Perrin with a falcon on his shoulder(YES), choosing between ax and
hammer(NO); A Whitecloak putting Master Luhhan in the middle of a
huge, toothed trap for bait(YES); Mat dicing with the Dark One(YES),
shouting "I am coming!" at her(YES); Rand sneaking through utter
darkness toward Callandor, while all around him six men and five
women walked, some hunting him and some ignoring him, some trying
to guide him toward the shining crystal sword and some trying to
stop him from reaching it, appearing not to know where he was, or
only to see him in flashes(YES). One of the men had eyes of flame,
and he wanted Rand dead with a desperation she could nearly taste;
Rand in that dry, dusty chamber again, with those small creatures
settling into his skin.(YES)
<TDR: 48, 553, Following the Craft, 468-9>
Rand confronting a horde of Seanchan.(NO) Rand confronting her,
and the women with her, and one of *them* was a Seanchan.(NO, probably
to come when Rand wants the Salidar AS to kneel to him.)
<TSR: 11, 207, What Lies Hidden, 145>
Rand as tall as a mountain, walking through cities, crushing
buildings beneath his feet, with screaming people like ants fleeing
from him.(Not literally, if symbolic, then in progress) Rand in
chains, and it was he who was screaming.(Poss his capture & torture
by the Tower AS) Rand building a wall with him on one side and her
on the other, her and Elayne and others she could not make out. "It
has to be done," he was saying as he piled up stones. "I'll not let
you stop me now."(YES, Ongoing) ... Aiel fighting each other, killing
each other, even throwing away their weapons and running as if they
had gone mad(YES). Mat wrestling with a Seanchan woman who tied an
invisible leash to him(NO). A wolf - [Perrin] - fighting a man whose
face kept changing(YES). Galad wrapping himself in white as though
putting on his own shroud(YES, but more to come?), and Gawyn with
eyes full of pain and hatred.(Possibly refers to the Tower Coup, or
thinking Rand killed Morgase) Her mother weeping.
<TFoH: 15, 300-1, What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214>
Rand sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the
chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair
taken (YES) ... Perrin, lounging with Faile on his lap, kissing
her while she played with the short-cut beard that he wore in
the dream. Behind them tow banners waved, a red wolf's head and
a crimson eagle. A man in a bright yellow coat stood near to
Perrin's shoulder, a sword strapped to his back; in some way she
knew that he was a tinker, though no tinker would ever touch a
sword. And every bit of it except the beard seemed important.
The banners, Faile kissing Perrin, even the tinker. Every time
he moved closer to Perrin it was if a chill of doom shot through
everything. (NO) ... Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down
his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled down low so she could
not see his would(NO), while Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire
to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's
forehead. (NO) Or a dream of a storm, great dark clouds rolling
without wind or rain while forked lightning bolts, every one
identical, rent the earth. (probably The Battle of Cairhien)
<LoC: 15, A Pile of Sand, 258>
Twice, right on top of each other, she dreamed of taking [Gawyn] by the
shoulders and trying to turn him to face the other way against his will.
Once he brushed her hands away roughly; the other time she was somehow
stronger than he. The two blended tongether hazily. {NO. Will Eg convince
Gawyn to join her on Rand's side, or will he continue to hate Rand over
the chaos he's brought to his life? Related to Min's viewing of Gawyn
kneeling to Eg or breaking her neck.} In another, [Gawyn] began swinging
a door closed on her, and she knew if that narrowing gap of light vanished,
she was dead. {NO, again related to the above & Min's viewing--Gawyn has
the power to destroy Eg, if he chooses not to join her.}
<LoC: 15, A Pile of Sand, 258>
Perrin came and stood before her, a wolf lying at his feet, a hawk and a
falcon perched on his shoulders glaring at each other over his head. {YES,
ongoing.} Seemingly unaware of them, he kept trying to throw away that
axe of his until finally he ran, the axe floating through the air chasing
him. {??? Perrin wants to give up the axe, but he cannot. We have yet to
decide what the axe symbolizes in general. I think maybe the Lordly life
Faile has planned for him, and the fighting inherent therein?} Again
Perrin; he turned away from a Tinker and ran, faster and faster though
she called for him to come back. {NO. Perrin and Aram's relationship
doesn't seem to have degenerated so far.}
<LoC: 15, A Pile of Sand, 258>
Mat spoke words she almost understood - the Old Tongue, she thought{YES}
- and two ravens alighted on his soulders, claws sinking through his coat
into the flesh beneath {NO?. probably has to do w/the Daughter of the 9
Moons and the Seanchan. For some reason, this vision calls to mind that
Raven tatoos on the shoulders mean "Property of the Seanchan Empress."}
He seemed no more aware of them that Perrin had been on the hawk and the
falcon, yet the defiance passed across his face, and the grim acceptance.
{??? Maybe the ravens refer to his spear, which he got on his trip to
A/Eelfland, where he also became a battle-master, which he first fought,
and has now accepted?} In another a woman, face shrouded in shadow,
beckoned him toward great danger; Egwene did not know what, only that
it was monstrous."{NO, I think. Is this woman the Daughter of the Nine
Moons?}
<LoC: 15, A Pile of Sand, 258>
Several concerned Rand, not all bad, but all odd. Elayne, forcing him to
his knees with one hand."{NO. Possibly concerning the throne of Andor, or
being Bonded to her as a Warder?} Elayne and Min and Aviendha, sitting
in a silent circle around him, each in turn reaching out to lay a hand
on him." {??? They've all had their turns to "lay their hands on him."
Elayne in Tear, Aviendha in Seanchan Igloo, Min in Caemlyn/Cairhien}
Him walking toward a burning mountain, something crunching beneath his
boots. She stirred and whimpered; the crunching things were the seals
on the Dark One's prison, shattering with his every step." {NO. The
Mountain is Shayol Ghul. The breaking of the Seals--has something to
do with LTT wanting to break them, and Fel's note?}
7.2...........................................................MIN'S VIEWINGS
<TEotW: 15, 215-6, Strangers and Friends, 181>
*LAN: Seven ruined Towers/A babe in a cradle holding a sword(YES)
*THOM: A man--not him--juggling fire/The White Tower(Uncertain.
either of these could refer to his nephew Owyn, and the Tower
could also represent future involvement with the AS)
*MAT: A red eagle(YES)/A eye on a balance scale(NO)/
A dagger with a ruby(YES)/A horn(YES)/A laughing face(NO)
*RAND A sword that isn't a sword (YES), A golden crown of laurel leaves (NO,
But this is obviously the Laurel Crown of Illian),
A beggars staff (NO), Him pouring water on sand(YES) Three woman
standing over a funeral bier with him on it:(NO) A bloody hand and a
white hot iron(NO) Black rock wet with blood:(NO)
<TDR: 6, 99, The Hunt Begins, 62-3> and above.
*PERRIN: A wolf(YES)/A broken crown(NO, but it has to do w/ his marriage
to Faile. Maybe Faile is heir to the Saldean throne?)/Trees flowering
around him(Uncertain, poss. refers to Loial singing to the trees over
Perrin's family's grave, or maybe he will find the Song)/
An Aielman in a cage(YES)/A Tuatha'an with a sword(YES)/
A falcon and a hawk, perching on his shoulders, both female.(YES)
A darkness swirling around him.(Uncertain--poss. just meaning
the shadow was chasing him, or maybe more specific--there are
Darkfriends near to him? or maybe something else entirely)
<TGH: 24, 362, New Friends and Old Enemies, 305> <TGH: 43, 605, A Plan, 511>
*ELAYNE The Rose Crown of Andor(YES), A severed hand, not hers(NO),
A red-hot iron and an ax.(NO)
<TGH: 43, 605, A Plan, 511>
*NYNAEVE: Man's ring of heavy gold.(YES, she has it, but no, she hasn't
actually done anything with it besides carry it around.)
<TGH: 24, 362, New Friends and Old Enemies, 305>
*EGWENE A white flame(YES)
Survey Says: Will Egwene be next Amyrlin?
Yes: 30 No: 4
<TSR: 17, 284, Deceptions, 198>
*LOGAIN A halo of gold and blue, signifying glory to come.(May have to do
with being un-stilled, but I think there is more to this.)
<TSR:1, 25, Seeds of Shadow, 21> <TSR: 47, 786-7, The Truth of a Viewing, 544>
*GAWYN A heron marked sword, his or threatening(uncertain. Threatening
could refer to fighting Hammar & Coulin in the Tower Coup)/
His banner with a field of green rather than white(YES-Younglings' banner)/
Either breaking Egwene's neck or kneeling to her(NO)
<TSR: 1, 18-21, Seeds of Shadow, 16-23>
*RANDOM AES SEDAI IN WHITE TOWER:
A silver collar, similar to, or actually, a damane's.(NO)
[also lots of death and suffering/bones etc.]
<TFoH: 26, 446, Sallie Daera, 317>
*SHERIAM: "Rays of silver and blue flashed about her fiery hair,
and a soft golden light; Min could not say what it meant."(maybe
has to do w/ her being Keeper?)
<TFoH: 26, 447, Sallie Daera, 317>
*CARLINYA: "a raven floating beside her dark hair; more of a drawing of
the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo..."(NO,)
<TFoH: 26, 452, Sallie Daera, 320>
*EDESINA: "[...] a silvery collar suddenly appeared, snug around the
woman's neck, and as suddenly seemed to shatter. Min shivered.
She did not like viewings connected to the Seanchan. At least
Edesina would escape somehow."(NO, but Edesina is one of the AS sent
to Tarabon, where the Seanchan are.)
<TFoH: 28, 484, Trapped, 343>
*SS/GARETH BRYNE: 'When Bryne came in, I had a viewing. An aura, and
a bull ripping roses from around its neck(YES), and ... None of
it matters except the aura. I didn't even really understand that,
but more than anything else.' 'How much did you understand?'
'If you want to stay alive, you had better stay close to him.'
Despite the heat, Min shivered. She had only ever had one other
viewing with an 'if' in it, and both had been potentially deadly.
It was bad enough sometimes knowing what would happen; if she
started knowing what might ... 'All I know is this. If he
stays close to you, you live. If he gets too far away, for too
long, you are going to die. Both of you. I don't know why I
should have seen anything about you in his aura, but you seemed
like part of it.'(NO)
<TFoH: 50, 835, To Teach and Learn, 592>
*FAOLAIN: 'A nasty woman,' Min murmured, squinting after Faolain ...
'You'd think, if there was any justice, she would have an
unpleasant future ahead of her.'(NO)
<TFoH: 50, 844, To Teach, and Learn, 598-9>
*MARIGAN, NICOLA, and AREINA: (Three women refugees with Ny et al.)
'Those three you brought with are trouble, and that is a viewing.'
'I only caught glimpses of aura, and just out of the corner of my
eye. Never when I was looking right at them, where I might have
made something out.'(YES, Marigan was Moggy.)
<TFoH: 50, 844-5, To Teach, and Learn, 598-9>
*RAND,ELAYNE, MIN, AVIENDHA:
Elayne leaped off the cliff. "Min, you had a viewing about Rand
and me, didn't you?" [...]
"Yes." It was a wary word.
"You saw that we were going to fall in love."
"Not exactly. I saw you'd fall in love with him. I don't know
what he feels for you, only that he's tied to you some way."
[...] "And you saw there would be someone else. Someone I'd have
to ... share ... him with."
"Two, " Min said hoarsely. "And .... And I'm one."
[...] "Who is the third?"
"I don't know," Min mumbled. "Only that she has a temper. Not
Nynaeve."(YES)
<LoC: 41, A Threat, 527>
*RAND: Contless thousands of sparkling lights, like stars or fireflies,
rushed into a great blacknes, trying to fill it up, rushed in and were
swallowed. Theree seemed to be more lights thanm she had ever seen
before, but the darkness swallowed them at a greater rate, too. And
there was something else, something new, an aura of yellow and brown
and purple that made her stomach clench.
<LoC: 41, A Threat, 532>
*RAND: "I saw an aura around you [Rand] in the throne room. Aes Sedai are
going to hurt you[YES]. Women who can channel, anyway. It was all
confused; I'm not sure about the Aes Sedai part. But it might happen
more than once." [Only happenned once. Will some non-AS channellers
hurt him, now? The Shaido Wise Ones? The Seanchan? The Sea Folk?
The Sharans???]
<LoC: 41, A Threat, 534>
*MELAINE: 'You will have two daughters,' Min murmured. 'Twins like
mirrors.'{NO, but she's pregnant.}
<LoC: 46, Beyond the Gate, 578-9>
*RAND and PERRIN: "When you two were together, I saw those fireflies and the
darkness stronger than ever.... But with two of you in the same room,
the fireflies were holding their own instead of being eaten faster than
they can swarm, the way they do when you're alone." {Just a general idea,
not a definite event. cf the "sparks" Min sees in the inn in Baerlon.}
"Twice he's going to have to be there, or you [Rand]...." "If he's not,
something bad will happen to you." "Very bad." Rand: "Then I'll just
have to keep him around." Min: "I don't know that that will be enough,
it _will_ happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't
because he is. It will be very bad, Rand. Just thinking of that viewing
makes me...."{??? Once was probably the capture by the AS, the second
hasn't yet happenned, for sure.}
<LoC: 50, Thorns, 626>
*MISC. NOBLES: "Maringil...was going to die by poison.(YES) Colavaere...
would die by hanging.(NOT YET) Meilan...would die by the knife.(YES)
...Aracome and Maraconn and Gueyam were all going to die too, bloody
deaths, in battle.(NO)
<LoC: 50, Thorns, 628>
*BERELAIN: "a man in white who will make her fall head over heels." {NO.
Who is it? A Whitecloak? Galad? A Gai'shan? (Rhuarc gets gai'shan-ed
and Berelain falls in love with him?)}
7.3.......................................................VARIOUS PROPHECIES
<TEotW: prologue, xv, Dragonmount, xv>
O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One
be born of the mountain(YES), according to the prophecies, as he
was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of
the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the
valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn
shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend
us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.(NO)
<TEOTW: prologue, xv, Dragonmount, xv>
And it came to pass in those days, as it had come beofre and would come
again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land an weighed down the hearts of
men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to
the Creator, saying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the
Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he
was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the
Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys
give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from
the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride
again on the winds of time. (from _Charal Drianaan te Calamon, The
Cycle of the Dragon._ Author unknown, the Fourth Age)
The prophecy for the Horn of Valere:
<TEotW: 26, 389, Whitebridge, 327>
In the last, lorn fight
'gainst the fall of long night,
the mountains stand guard,
and the dead shall be ward,
for the grave is no bar to my call.(NO)
Elaida's Foretelling:
<TEOTW: 40, 614, The Web Tightens, 514>
'This I Foretell...and swear under the Light that I can say no
clearer. From this day Andor marches toward pain and division. The
Shadow has yet to darken to its blackest, and I cannot see if the
Light will come after. Where the world has wept one tear, it will
weep thousands....This, too, I Foretell. Pain and division come to
the whole world, and this man [Rand] stands at the heart of it.'(YES)
<TDR: Trailer Prophesy, 675, 578>
And it was written that no hand but his should wield the Sword
held in the Stone, but he did draw it out, like fire in his
hand, and his glory did burn the world. Thus did it begin. Thus
do we sing his Rebirth. Thus do we sing the beginning.(YES)
<TSR: 15, 253, Into the Doorway, 177>
ANSWERS TO MAT'S QUESTIONS: [What fate?]
To marry the Daughter of the Nine moons.(NO)
To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was.(YES)
To give up half the light of the world to save the world.(NO)
Survey Says: What does it mean for Mat to give up 1/2 the light...?
Lose an eye: 74
Something to do with Mayene and lamp oil: 4
Other: 8
_Coramoor_ (Jendai Prophecy):
<TSR: 19, 315-6, The Wavedancer, 220-1>
He can wield the One Power ... and he holds the Sword That Cannot
Be Touched. The Aiel have come over the Dragonwall to his call.
... The Stone of Tear has fallen, and war breaks over the nations
of the land. Those who once ruled have returned, and been driven
back for the first time. ... The White Tower shall be broken by
his name(YES), and Aes Sedai shall kneel to wash his feet and dry
them with their hair.(NO, not all of them, yet.)
Wise One Dreaming:
<TSR: 23, 385, Beyond the Stone, 270>
(Moiraine, Melaine, and Seana in conversation on Chaendaer)
"We did not see Egwene or Mat Cauthon at all. It was no more than
an even chance that the young man who calls himself Rand al'Thor
would come. If he did not, it was certain that he would die, and
the Aiel too.(ONGOING) Yet he has come, and if he survives
Rhuidean, some of the Aiel at least will survive. This we know.
If you(Moiraine) had not come, he would have died(YES). If
Aan'allein had not come, you would have died(???). If you did not
go through the rings..."
From Rhuidean:
<TSR: 25, 408, The Road to the Spear, 285-6>
The stone that never falls will fall to announce his coming.(YES)
Of the blood, but not raised by the blood, he will come from
Rhuidean at dawn(YES), and tie you together with bonds you cannot
break(I GUESS SO...). He will take you back(YES), and he will
destroy you(YES, BUT MORE TO COME).
<TSR: 24, 402, Rhuidean, 281-2>
MAT'S WISHES: Holes in memory restored/a way to be free of Aes Sedai
and the Power/Away and back to Rhuidean(YES to all)
<LoC: Header Prophecy>
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule. {your guess is as good as mine as to whether
this is actually prophecy or no}
<LoC: 14, Dreams and Nightmares, 255>
*NICOLA'S FORETELLING: "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees
beyond.(YES? El, Avi, and Min--do they have something special to do?)
Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives."{??? I have yet to
hear a satisfactory explanation of this one, although it resonates with
the WOs boat dream} The great battle done, but the world not done with
battle.{??? perhaps the Last Battle, yet the struggle between the Shadow
and the Light continues?} The land divided by the return {NO, obviously
refers to the Seanchan} and the guardians balance out the servants.{YES,
the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai.} The future teeters on the edge of a
blade{metaphorical melodramatics--this war is crucial}."
<LoC: 19, Matters of Toh, 312-3>
Wise Ones Dreams: "Melaine and Bair dreamed of you on a boat with
three women whose faces they could not see{??? something to do with
Min, El, and Avi}, and a scale tilting first one way and then the
other."{YES--everything seems up in the air now. Rand might win, the
Shadow might, who knows?} Melaine and Amys dreamed of a man standing
by your side with a dagger to your throat, but you did not see him.
{??? Poss a Grey Man, Poss. refers to Taim?} Bair and Amys dreamed
of you cutting the wetlands in two with a sword. {YES--Randland is
polarizing into pro- and anti- Dragon factions. there will soon be
no sitting on the fence.} All three had this dream, which makes it
especially significant. Rain, coming from a bowl. There are snares
and pitfalls around the bowl. {NO, but this is obviously the bowl
ter'angreal} If the right hands pick it up, they will find a treasure
perhaps as great as the bowl. {NO. Maybe there is something else in
the bowl room? Angreals, etc?} If the wrong hands, the world is
doomed. {Well, duh.} "The key to finding the bowl is to find the one
who is no longer."{NO--???}
<LoC: REF?>
Behind the Red Doorway in Tear: "He [Rand] knew he had a chance to live,
if a seemingly impossible one. _If_you_would_live_, _you_must_die_."
{NO. Maybe means "if you would live future lives, you must die
(physically) in this one. cf LTT's wanting to die for good, never be
spun out again.<LoC: 18, A Taste of Solitude, 299>}
7.4........................................................THE DARK PROPHECY
<TGH: 7, 105-6, Blood Calls Blood, 89>
Daughter of the Night, she walks again.(YES)
The ancient war, she yet fights.(YES)
Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her(DOUBTFUL) and
die(NOT YET), yet serve still.
Who shall stand against her coming?
The Shining Walls shall kneel.(NO, not yet)
Blood feeds blood.
Blood calls blood.
Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.
The man who channels stands alone.
He gives his friends for sacrifice.
Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.
Which will he choose? Which will he choose?
What hand shelters? What hand slays?
Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.
Isam waited in the high passes.
The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.
One did live, and one did die, but both are.
The Time of Change has come.(YES TO ALL)
The Watchers wait on Toman Head.
The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.(YES)
Death shall sow, and summer burn(YES), before the Great Lord comes.
Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.
Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.
Now the Great Lord comes.(YES)
7.5....................................................THE KARAETHON CYCLE
<TGH Header Prophecy>
And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered,
and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the DO shall
once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men
quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither
shall anything stand nor abide...
Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow...and there shall be
wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes
shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his
coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall
he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the
Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let
tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation.
<TGH: 22, 328, Watchers, 275>
Vandene talking to Moiraine:
'Five ride forth, and four return.(YES) Above the watchers shall
he proclaim himself, bannered cross the sky in fire...'(YES)
<TGH: 26, 387, Discord, 325-6> <TSR: 9, 180, Decisions, 126>
Thom to Rand:
Twice and twice shall he be marked,YES)
twice to live, and twice to die,(maybe Rand & LTT?)
Once the heron to set his path. (YES)
Twice the heron, to name him true.(YES)
Once the Dragon for remembrance lost.(YES)
Twice the Dragon for the price he must pay .(he has been paying,
but will there be a Real Big Price, i.e. his life & his blood?)
<TGH: 26, 387, Discord, 326>
Thom to Rand:
Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.(NO,)
Survey says: Will there be an eclipse when Rand spills his blood?
Yes: 56 No: 26
<TDR: 6, 93, The Hunt Begins, 57>
Moiraine in conversation:
He has yet to break the nations(YES), or shatter the world. Even
scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their entire lives
do not know how to interpret them all. What does it mean that
he shall 'slay his people people with the sword of peace, and
destroy them with the leaf'(YES)? What does it mean that he
shall bind the nine moons to serve him?(NO) Yet these are given
equal weight with Callandor in the Cycle. There are others.
What 'wound of madness and cutting of hope' has he healed?(NO--
possible reference to healing the Taint?)
What chains has he broken(possibly chains binding people to the
Shadow--Ingtar, Asmodean, Tear, Andor), and who put into chains?
(Asmodean, maybe? or all the nations he is binding to follow him?)
Survey Says: Will Rand break the world:
Physically: 28 Figuratively: 67
Survey Says: Will the Taint be cleansed from Saidin?
Yes: 59 No: 22
<TDR: Header Prophesy, ix, ix>
And his paths shall be many, and who shall know his
name, for he shall be born among us many times, in
many guises, as he has been and ever will be, time
without end. His coming shall be like the sharp edge of
the plow, turning our lives in furrows from out of the
places where we lie in our silence. The breaker of bonds;
the forger of chains. The maker of futures; the unshaper
of destiny.(General Prophesy, no real judgment needed)
<TSR: 3, 99, Reflection, 71>
His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away
the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation.(NO)
Survey Says: Will Rand Die?
No: 17 Yes: 67 (stay dead: 32, resurrected: 35)
<TSR: 6, 131, Doorways, 93>
Power of the Shadow made human flesh,(poss. Forsaken, Fain, Slayer, or
the Bubble of evil at the start of TSR?)
wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.
The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,
dances the sword in dreams and mist,
chains the Shadowsworn to his will,(YES)
from the city, lost and forsaken,
leads the spears to war once more,(YES)
breaks the spears and makes them see,
truth long hidden in the ancient dream.(YES)
<TSR: 21, 349, Into the Heart, 244>
Into the heart he thrusts his sword,
into the heart, to hold their hearts.(YES)
Who draws it out shall follow after,
What hand can grasp that fearful blade?(NO)
<TFOH: Header Prophecy>
With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the
land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The
wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond
the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no
salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.
<LoC: Trailer Prophecy>
The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign. The
seas rage, and stormclouds gather unseen. Beyond the horizon, hidden
fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom. What was exalted is cast
down; what was cast down is raised up. Order burns to clear his path.
7.6..........................................................PERRIN'S DREAMS
<TDR: 43, 504, Shadowbrothers, 426>
Egwene and Nynaeve and Elayne stood looking at a huge metal cage,
with a raised door held on a heavy spring. They stepped in and
reached up together to loose the catch. The barred door snapped
down behind them. A woman with her hair all in braids laughed
at them, and another woman all in white laughed at her.(YES)
<TDR: 43, 504, Shadowbrothers, 425>
Mat, rattling a dice cup. His opponent stared at Mat with eyes
of fire. Mat did not seem to see the man, but Perrin knew him.
"Mat!" he shouted. "It's Ba'alzamon. Light, Mat, you're dicing
with Ba'alzamon!"(YES)
<TSR: 28, 458, To the Tower of Ghenjei, 320-1>
Rand stood amid swirling stormwinds, laughing wildly, even madly,
arms upraised, and on the winds rode [dragons](NO); hidden eyes
watched Rand, and there was no way of telling whether he knew it
(possibly general--all the people watching Rand, e.g. Forsaken,
Wise Ones, AS, etc. or maybe something more specific that we do
not know about); Nynaeve and Elayne stalking cautiously through
a demented landscape of twisted, shadowed buildings, hunting some
dangerous beast(YES). Mat, standing where a road forked ahead of
him. He flipped a coin(YES--flipped a coin at the Portal Stone,
to get to Rhuidean), started down one branch, and suddenly was
wearing a wide-brimmed hat and walking with a staff bearing a
short sword blade(YES). Egwene and a woman with long white hair
(Amys?) were staring at him in surprise while behind them the
White Tower crumbled stone by stone.(YES)
<TSR: 53, 882, The Price of a Departure, 612>
Egwene stood among a crowd of women, fear in her eyes; slowly the
women knelt around her, Nynaeve was one of them, and he believed
he saw Elayne's red-gold hair.(YES) That window faded and was
replaced. Mat stood naked and bound, snarling; an odd spear with
a black shaft had been thrust across his back behind his elbows,
and a silver medallion, a foxhead, hung on his chest.(YES) Mat
vanished, and it was Rand. Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore
rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.(NO)
99.0===========================PUBLISHING STUFF=============================
99.1...........................................HOW MANY BOOKS WILL THERE BE?
However many RJ writes. 3 or 4 more after LOC is what he said at a
signing in Atlanta.
99.2..............................................WHEN IS THE NEXT BOOK OUT?
Brian Bax talked to Mrs. RJ at a signing, and gives us the following
information:
LOC took a long time to compile, in fact TOO much time. It was
"supposed" to be done by April 1994 at the latest. However,it wasn't
even close to being done. Somwhere past the deadline, they lost a
chapter. They flew RJ up to New York and he wrote the final parts in
a hotel for about two weeks. He finished on August 28, 1994. Tor had
to do MAJOR overtime to check and edit it for it's Oct. 12 release
date. Mrs Jordan also added that LoC was their most difficult one
composed ever. It was a real marker as to how fast they could produce
a novel at this point in the series. After his book signing tour he's
going straight to his word processor and type through Thanksgiving and
probably Xmas, cause he hasn't even started yet. RJ made an
arrangement with a manager ((I think) from Tor for a March deadline.
If book seven wasn't completed by that time, then the fall release
would be cancelled, meaning that book seven will not be released to as
late as Fall 1996 possibly. This manager seems to have forgotten this
arrangement and wanted to have it released by fall 1995, under
pressure from Tor publishing and the parent St. Martin's it appears.
{my own personal comment, but one voiced by many, is that it would be
preferable to wait longer for the next book and have it be good,
instead of RJ rushing to finish, and having it turn out poorly.}
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Pam Korda
PART 5 of 5 of the WOTFAQ. here be spoilers.
CONTENTS: (* = new this faq, + updated this faq, - same as last faq)
part 1:
0.0 ADMINISTRIVIA
1.0 ALL ANSWERS GREAT AND SMALL
- 1.1 Jordan-speak. Words from the man himself.
to
+ 1.5 Why is Moiraine not dead?
part 2:
+ 1.6 What was up with Gawyn during the coup?
to
+ 1.33 Who are the Forsaken? Where are they now?
part3
- 1.34 All the Aes Sedai
to
+ 1.58 What's up w/the male-female a'dam link where they both die screaming?
part 4
+ 1.59 Is Sheriam Black Ajah?
to
* 1.68 Why did Sammael claim he had a truce w/ Rand?
2.0 TRIVIAL PURSUITS: References, Sources, Allusions, Parallels, etc.
part 5
5.0 HANGIN' LOOSE
Loose Threads: Unresolved Stuff
6.0 SOME "SWEET" COVER ART:
What is it with those stupid Darrell Sweet Covers?
7.0 PROPHECIES: Everything you wanted to know about the future, but
were afraid to ask.
99.0 PUBLISHING STUFF
5.0==========================UNRESOLVED PLOT STUFF==========================
* is Verin Black?
* Padan Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith
* Moghedien
* Perrin & Slayer
TGH: RECAPTURING THE HORN
TSR : BREAKFAST AT RHUIDEAN
7.0========================READERS GUIDE TO PROPHECY========================
7.1..........................................................EGWENE'S DREAMS
<TFoH: 15, 300-1, What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214>
7.2...........................................................MIN'S VIEWINGS
7.3.......................................................VARIOUS PROPHECIES
7.4........................................................THE DARK PROPHECY
7.5....................................................THE KARAETHON CYCLE
<TSR: 3, 99, Reflection, 71>
Michael Macchione
Pam Korda <ko...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
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>|/\\ A A E S S N I I F F F \\/|
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Cute Pam, I never noticed before how Sedai is spelled with the letters
SNIFF. Cute, real cute.
Mike
Sir MPS
Carolyn Fusinato
>Possibly, Rand's taint-maddened subconscious could be constructing the
>LTT voice out of past life memories like Mat's.
Considering the late great argument about whether the memories are really
mat's or not, I'm not sure that Mat's experience should be applied to
the Rand/LTT discussion. Moiraine
Joe Uno Shaw
> Pam Korda <ko...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
[large ASCII "AES SEDAI" block letters deleted.]
> Cute Pam, I never noticed before how Sedai is spelled with the letters
> SNIFF. Cute, real cute.
Don't you ever read the FAQ, Mike? :-)
It's been like that since bloody September, fer crying out loud.
It's about flaming time somebody finally noticed it!
Strangely enough, "cute" was Pam's reaction too when she saw it.
Nobody's found the "snort" I hid in the FAQ yet, though....
- Joe
--
To get the rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan FAQ, via WWW or anonymous ftp:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/sf/robert-jordan-faq
(Contains directions to the Wheel of Time FAQ(s) and WWW home page)
It takes only ONE spoiler to ruin someone's enjoyment of a book. [ISRI/NtF-NtF]
Piglet
> Warder gets killed. She doesn't notice until she sees his dead body.
> <Michael Hanneman> [Perhaps she was shielded before he died?]
>
>
I think this is explained in LOC:
spoilers lurk below:
LOC page 427: Siuan gets emotional after being Healed. She thinks "She knew
what it was now. Alric, her Warder. Her dead Warder, murdered when Elaida
deposed her. She could lie-the Three Oaths were still gone-but some part
of her bond to Alric, a bond flesh to flesh and mind to mind, had been
resurrected. THe pain of his death, the pain *first masked by the shock
of what Elaida intended and then buried by stilling*, that pain filled her
to the brim." Emphasis mine. I think she did not feel him die because
she was so shocked by Elaida's coup.
IMO, of course.
Judy G.
--
Judy Ghirardelli || Love is Always , Me is Life
ju...@ren.psy.jhu.edu || Forever is just another Smile
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"It's hard to Brave when you're a Very Small Animal" - Piglet
Pam Korda
>>Possibly, Rand's taint-maddened subconscious could be constructing the
>>LTT voice out of past life memories like Mat's.
>Considering the late great argument about whether the memories are really
>mat's or not, I'm not sure that Mat's experience should be applied to
>the Rand/LTT discussion. Moiraine
Well, to be pedantic, Mat's memories are the memories of _somebody's_
past lives. (I could go into philosophical arguments about how if he
remembers them, they are, effectively, even if not metaphysically, his
past lives, and if he doesn't remember his _real past lives, then,
effectively, he isn't that person. However, I'll just say that John
Locke wrote a long treatise on the subject of the nature of the self,
which deals with this question, and look it up if you're really
interested.) Plus, Mat had at least one past life thingy going on
before Rhuidean--remember his Healing in the Tower?
Pam Korda | To get the WOTFAQ between
Most Arrogant Woman on the Net | postings, E-mail me,
ko...@kimbark.uchicago.edu | or ftp it from
ko...@rainbow.uchicago.edu | faser.cs.olemiss.edu.
>>>>>>>>>>WOTFAQ CONTAINS LOC SPOILERS!!!<<<<<<<<
Osan'gar
: spoilers lurk below:
: LOC page 427: Siuan gets emotional after being Healed. She thinks "She knew
: what it was now. Alric, her Warder. Her dead Warder, murdered when Elaida
: deposed her. She could lie-the Three Oaths were still gone-but some part
: of her bond to Alric, a bond flesh to flesh and mind to mind, had been
: resurrected. THe pain of his death, the pain *first masked by the shock
: of what Elaida intended and then buried by stilling*, that pain filled her
: to the brim." Emphasis mine. I think she did not feel him die because
: she was so shocked by Elaida's coup.
This brings up an interesting point wrt Moiraine and Lan. If an AS is
stilled, does she lose her Warder? Or does she just temporarily lose the
ability to sense him? If the first, Moiraine getting stilled in the
ter'angreal is ok... but if the second, she's bitten the dust.
--Jared "Osan'gar" Samet
Andrea Lynn Leistra
dead...
Just being in *finn land is enough to cut off the AS/Warder link, if the
doorway isn't there.
As we know the AS/Warder bond is a thing of the OP. The Aes Sedai's loss
of the OP (stilling) would sever the bond, but healing would restore it.
Aviendha
Timothy Bruening
On Wednesday, November 30, 1994 at 10:14:40 AM UTC-8, Pam Korda wrote:
> Here is part 1 of 5 of the WOTFAQ, updated for LOC. there be spoilers here.
> *In TFoH, on the Cover, we are told that "FLAIDA" (sic) is now Amyrlin.
> *Something very strange happened between 10 and 20 years ago. In
> <TGH: 4, 58, Summoned, 49> the Amyrlin says to Moiraine "I am the fifth
> in a row raised to the Amyrlin Seat from the Blue." Two pages earlier, we
> learn that Siuan Sanche has been Amyrlin for ten years. In <TFoH: 15, 301,
> What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214>, Moiraine says to Egwene: "In a few
> months it will be twenty-one years since we began the search for the Dragon
> Reborn. Sieren Vayu was raised to Amyrlin shortly after, a Gray with more
> than a touch of Red in her." Were there really SEVEN different
> Amyrlins in the space of a dozen years? (The Blue who held the seat
> when Rand was born, Vayu, and then the five Blues who ended with Siuan
> Sanche.) Or is this just a Jordan mistake?<Courtenay Footman>