Moraine's letter to Thom (possible spoiler)
charles miller
In CoT, it is mentioned that Thom is constantly reading and rereading
a letter from a "dead woman." I assume this is the letter Moriane
gave to Rand to give to Thom, but I do not remember Rand ever actually
giving it to Thom. Can someone tell me when this takes place? I
assume Thom does not read it onstage or I would certainly remember
that. I am rereading the series again, but am only on LoC. Thanks,
charles
Kur
news:fd6af37b.03012...@posting.google.com:
Mat gave it to Thom, which Rand had given to him.
http://photeus.com/~ewot/characters/thom.html
...It's in LoC, chapter 40, so you will probably read about it soon.
Alan Ellingson
"charles miller" <cm1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fd6af37b.03012...@posting.google.com...
Rand gives it to Mat when he tells Mat to go to Salidar.
Ch. 33, LoC -
"Good," Rand said. "Good." But he was staring intently at the map. He jerked
his eyes away, and for an instant Mat thought he intended to say something
to Aviendha. Instead, he turned away from her roughly. "Thom Merrilin should
be with Elayne." Rand produced a letter from his pocket, folded and sealed.
"See that he gets this." Shoving the letter into Mat's hands, he hurriedly
left the tent.
[...]
Still, it was no concern of his. He turned the letter over in his hands.
Thom's name was written in a feminine hand; the seal was one he did not
recognize, a spreading tree topped by a crown.' What noblewoman would be
writing to a leathery old man Tike Thom? Not his concern either. Tossing the
letter on the table, he picked up his pipe and pouch. "Olver," he said,
stuffing the bowl with tabac, "ask Talmanes, Nalesean and Daerid to come to
me."
Mat gives it to him when he first arrives in Salidar after his talk with
Egwene.
Ch. 40, LoC -
You have to help me talk some sense into them," Mat said around his
pipestem. "Thom, are you listening?"
They were seated on upended kegs in the scant shade of a two-story house,
smoking their pipes, and the lanky old gleeman ***seemed more interested in
staring at the letter Rand had sent on to him***. Now he stuffed it into his
coat pocket with the tree-and-crown seal yet unbroken. The buzz of voices
and squeak of axles from the street at the end of the alley seemed distant.
Sweat dripped from both their faces. At least one thing was taken care of
for the moment. Mat had come out of the Little Tower to find that a group of
Acs Sedai had hauled Aviendha away somewhere; she would not be sticking a
knife in anybody any time soon.
[...]
Mat jumped to his feet. In his head was an image of a woman with a knife
stuck between her breasts; not one of the borrowed memories. He kicked the
keg he had been sitting on, sending it rolling along the alley. Help a
gleeman keep them alive? A faint memory stirred, something about Basel Gill,
an innkeeper in Caemlyn, saying something about Thom, but it was like mist,
gone as soon as he tried to hold it. ***"Who's the letter from, Thom?
Another woman you rescued? Or did you leave her where she could get her head
cut off?"***
"I left her," Thorn said softly. Rising, he walked away without another
word.
Mat half reached out to stop him, started to speak. Only he could not think
of what to say. Crazy old man! No, he was not crazy. Egwene was mule
stubborn, and Nynaeve made her look biddable. Worse, either would climb a
tree to see the lightning better. As for Elayne, noblewomen never had enough
sense to
Donald J. Harlow
If I remember correctly, Rand gave the letter to Mat to give to Thom, which
finally happened in Salidar in "Lord of Chaos".
--
-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html
http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/
Tessy
Cripes - it's yonks since I read the series. Didn't Rand give it to Mat
who then gave it to Thom in Salidar. Thom then went off to read it in
private realising who it was from without opening it?
--
Tessy @ nospam.com
Lyle Caldwell
Rand gives it to Matt who then gives it to Thom in Ebou Dar. I think in LoC
or CoS.
--
Lyle Caldwell
Elizabeth Wong
--
Cheers, Liz
"Away, and mock the time with fairest show: False face must hide what false
heart doth know." Macbeth (Act I. Scene vii)
Kur <o...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns930D6EA35E5...@195.67.237.53...
Christopher Rhoades
> Rand passed it to Mat who passed it to Thom in LoC
>
Just a quick question/poll. Moiraine writes the note to Thom after
she went through the rings and the Doorway, so I feel like most people
think she found out the likely 'I'll marry Thom' info in one of those
two places. However, after rereading TEOTW, it seems it was one of
Min's viewings, also because I feel like Min has an internal monologue
that roughly states: "She had only been wrong about one [viewing] so
far." Any thoughts? Or maybe this has been chatted about already.
If so, please direct me. Thanks.
Chris
Jeff McIsaac
> Just a quick question/poll. Moiraine writes the note to Thom after
> she went through the rings and the Doorway, so I feel like most people
> think she found out the likely 'I'll marry Thom' info in one of those
> two places. However, after rereading TEOTW, it seems it was one of
> Min's viewings, also because I feel like Min has an internal monologue
> that roughly states: "She had only been wrong about one [viewing] so
> far." Any thoughts? Or maybe this has been chatted about already.
> If so, please direct me. Thanks.
> Chris
This is a bit of a segue, but here goes: It has already been agreed by
consensus that Thom will rescue Moiraine. And something that has always
pissed me off is that Mat never made the connection between the *finn and
the Snakes and the Foxes that Olver always made him play. But in CoT,
_Thom_ is the one that plays S&F with Olver. And Thom is certainly cagey
enough to put two and two together. Not to mention the fact that he has all
of the required elements: Courage to strength (well documented), fire to
blind (Aludra has her matches with her in the menagerie), music to dazzle
(the guy's a harpist), iron to bind (hundreds of knives all over his
person). Plus, he has never been through either of the two doorways, so he
should be good wether he enters via the Tower of Ghenji or the Tear
doorway. So I think we have all the required elements for Thom to go to
*finnland, whip a little ass, and bring back our long lost Blue.
Christopher Rhoades
> This is a bit of a segue, but here goes: It has already been agreed by
> consensus that Thom will rescue Moiraine.
Spoilers by inference...
One other thought about the Moiraine rescue...one would think that
Moir will be healed pretty soon after she's rescued (unless she's
going to spend her last on-screen days as a normal) so that means she
must be around people who can heal it. These people are: Aes SEdai
with TCFKAE (The Camp Formerly Known As Egwene's), Nynaeve, and Flinn.
Further problematic is that no one with Thom can Travel. So either
Moiraine's going to be a normal, or we can postulate that Mat will be
headed towards one of the above groups or someone finds him who can
channel (cause also we need to get to the Tower of Genji somehow).
Thoughts?
Cyrus Levesque
> "Jeff McIsaac" <quat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<TdK9a.6839$Or5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > This is a bit of a segue, but here goes: It has already been agreed by
> > consensus that Thom will rescue Moiraine.
> <snip *Finn>
>
> Spoilers by inference...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> One other thought about the Moiraine rescue...one would think that
> Thoughts?
Ummm... how do you know she'll need Healing? Maybe I'm the only one,
but I always thought Lanfear was stilled by having her angreal torn
away from her by Moiraine while channeling, burning her out. Even if
not, there are enough differences between Lanfear and Moiraine that
Lanfear might have got herself stilled and/or killed without Moiraine
being hurt. And if you think that she must be stilled because she
couldn't be kept prisoner otherwise, that doesn't hold up. We know
very little about the *Finn but they're capable of lots of weird
stuff, so we shouldn't assume they would need to still her for any
reason. So it's possible that Moiraine was never stilled.
Margaret Johnston
news:f6f6a77b.03031...@posting.google.com...
> cvtrh...@yahoo.com (Christopher Rhoades) wrote in message
news:<6779525c.0303...@posting.google.com>...
> > Moir will be healed pretty soon after she's rescued [snip
technicalities about Healing]
> > Thoughts?
>
> Ummm... how do you know she'll need Healing? Maybe I'm the only one,
> but I always thought Lanfear was stilled by having her angreal torn
> away from her by Moiraine while channeling, burning her out. Even if
> not, there are enough differences between Lanfear and Moiraine that
> Lanfear might have got herself stilled and/or killed without Moiraine
> being hurt. And if you think that she must be stilled because she
> couldn't be kept prisoner otherwise, that doesn't hold up. We know
> very little about the *Finn but they're capable of lots of weird
> stuff, so we shouldn't assume they would need to still her for any
> reason. So it's possible that Moiraine was never stilled.
But her bond with Lan was broken when she went through the doorway. The
bond didn't break when she went through the ter'angreal in Tear, so it's
very unlikely that just her going through this doorway would break it.
How else would that happen if she wasn't stilled or killed?
--M
-----
Margaret Johnston khaa...@msn.com
"I have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only
know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that
differentiate me from a doormat." - Rebecca West, 1913.
-----
Marian Try Slaughter
<khaa...@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote:
>"Cyrus Levesque" <cybis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:f6f6a77b.03031...@posting.google.com...
>> cvtrh...@yahoo.com (Christopher Rhoades) wrote in message
>news:<6779525c.0303...@posting.google.com>...
>> > One other thought about the Moiraine rescue...one would think that
>> > Moir will be healed pretty soon after she's rescued [snip
>technicalities about Healing]
>> > Thoughts?
>>
>> Ummm... how do you know she'll need Healing? Maybe I'm the only one,
>> but I always thought Lanfear was stilled by having her angreal torn
>> away from her by Moiraine while channeling, burning her out. Even if
>> not, there are enough differences between Lanfear and Moiraine that
>> Lanfear might have got herself stilled and/or killed without Moiraine
>> being hurt. And if you think that she must be stilled because she
>> couldn't be kept prisoner otherwise, that doesn't hold up. We know
>> very little about the *Finn but they're capable of lots of weird
>> stuff, so we shouldn't assume they would need to still her for any
>> reason. So it's possible that Moiraine was never stilled.
>
>But her bond with Lan was broken when she went through the doorway. The
>bond didn't break when she went through the ter'angreal in Tear, so it's
>very unlikely that just her going through this doorway would break it.
>How else would that happen if she wasn't stilled or killed?
Perhaps the destruction of the Ter'Angreal was enough to break the bond -
It certainly broke the connection at that place between the two world, who
can say what else could be broken with that?
--
"Apart from these horrific murders and the drunk driving that lead to his
undoing, he seems to be a person of good character." - Simon - mhm27x5
Mycin
> "Cyrus Levesque" <cybis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f6f6a77b.03031...@posting.google.com...
> > cvtrh...@yahoo.com (Christopher Rhoades) wrote in message
> news:<6779525c.0303...@posting.google.com>...
> > > One other thought about the Moiraine rescue...one would think that
> > > Moir will be healed pretty soon after she's rescued [snip
> technicalities about Healing]
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > Ummm... how do you know she'll need Healing? Maybe I'm the only one,
> > but I always thought Lanfear was stilled by having her angreal torn
> > away from her by Moiraine while channeling, burning her out. Even if
> > not, there are enough differences between Lanfear and Moiraine that
> > Lanfear might have got herself stilled and/or killed without Moiraine
> > being hurt. And if you think that she must be stilled because she
> > couldn't be kept prisoner otherwise, that doesn't hold up. We know
> > very little about the *Finn but they're capable of lots of weird
> > stuff, so we shouldn't assume they would need to still her for any
> > reason. So it's possible that Moiraine was never stilled.
>
> But her bond with Lan was broken when she went through the doorway. The
> bond didn't break when she went through the ter'angreal in Tear, so it's
> very unlikely that just her going through this doorway would break it.
> How else would that happen if she wasn't stilled or killed?
Yes, but the Tear doorway didn't melt down. That could be the cause
of the broken bond. Or not. We don't know, yet.
TM
Kutulu
Levesque) wrote:
>cvtrh...@yahoo.com (Christopher Rhoades) wrote in message news:<6779525c.0303...@posting.google.com>...
>> One other thought about the Moiraine rescue...one would think that
>> Moir will be healed pretty soon after she's rescued [snip technicalities about Healing]
>> Thoughts?
>
>Ummm... how do you know she'll need Healing? Maybe I'm the only one,
>but I always thought Lanfear was stilled by having her angreal torn
>away from her by Moiraine while channeling, burning her out. Even if
>not, there are enough differences between Lanfear and Moiraine that
>Lanfear might have got herself stilled and/or killed without Moiraine
>being hurt. And if you think that she must be stilled because she
>couldn't be kept prisoner otherwise, that doesn't hold up. We know
>very little about the *Finn but they're capable of lots of weird
>stuff, so we shouldn't assume they would need to still her for any
>reason. So it's possible that Moiraine was never stilled.
The primary evidence that she was stilled is that her Warder bond
snapped. We know she's gone through these doorways before and kept
the bond intact, so that act alone isn't what did it. Lan assumes she
is dead because the bond broke, but we also know that being severed
will have the same effect.
--K
Peter Reid
I keep hearing everyone talk about how Moiraine was stilled/killed
(funny how they rhyme...but anyways...) and use the fact that the bond
is broken to prove it. However, it seems obvious from the text that it
is possible for one sister to pass her bond to another [1]. To me it
seems more obvious that Moiraine released the bond deliberately,
allowing it to pass to Myrelle (as she had already arranged), thus
making it _look_ like she had died. That is certainly the thought that
appeared to me at the start; mainly because all the characters assumed
she was dead. I tend to assume that the characters generally have
_wrong_ assumptions (which tends to hold true in RJ's writing), which
leads me to think that Moiraine was neither killed _nor_ stilled.
[1]I recall there is a story told of an Accepted who bonds a man as her
Warder a day earlier than her AS test because she was afraid he'd be
taken by someone else who was testing that day. When she was found out,
she was forced to pass the bond to another. There are other examples as
well, but I remember them more as impressions than as anything concrete.
--
Peter Reid
peter.j.r...@CAPSsympatico.ca
Marian Try Slaughter
<peter.j.r...@CAPSsympatico.ca> wrote:
>I keep hearing everyone talk about how Moiraine was stilled/killed
>(funny how they rhyme...but anyways...) and use the fact that the bond
>is broken to prove it. However, it seems obvious from the text that it
>is possible for one sister to pass her bond to another [1]. To me it
>seems more obvious that Moiraine released the bond deliberately,
>allowing it to pass to Myrelle (as she had already arranged), thus
>making it _look_ like she had died. That is certainly the thought that
>appeared to me at the start; mainly because all the characters assumed
>she was dead. I tend to assume that the characters generally have
>_wrong_ assumptions (which tends to hold true in RJ's writing), which
>leads me to think that Moiraine was neither killed _nor_ stilled.
>
>
>
>
>[1]I recall there is a story told of an Accepted who bonds a man as her
>Warder a day earlier than her AS test because she was afraid he'd be
>taken by someone else who was testing that day. When she was found out,
>she was forced to pass the bond to another. There are other examples as
>well, but I remember them more as impressions than as anything concrete.
The issue with that is, presumeably if the bond is passed in a friendly
manner (ie not dying, stilling), then the warder doesn't get all... well,
like lan did. Obsessed with revenge, dying, etc. Otherwise I can't think
they would ever force anyone to pas a bond.
The only thing that likely leaves that effect is the snapping of the bond,
be it from death, stilling, or... well, the door you just went through and
the connection between two worlds being severed.
Agamemnon
We all don't have enough info about the Tower of Ghenji (sp?) so I
won't add anything more about that.
Theory: There are 2 known ways to enter "finnland". One leads to the
"Snakes" (Tear) other to "Foxes". If the gateway to the "Foxes" was
destroyed, would that possibly cut off the OPEN gateway to their
realm? With this being the only OPEN gateway (assumption on given
info), would that sever all ties one would have to Randland (link to
warders or the One Power)? This would explain both the severed warder
bond and the need for Moiraine to be alive to be rescued.
I am new to the group, but I have read the FAQ's (or at least the
newest mentioned in other threads) so I apologize if this was already
brought up.
-Agmemnon (but you can call me Jake)
Teresa Sandstedt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
On 2003-01-24, 00:42:44, "Alan Ellingson"
<alan_ellingson[nospam]@[mapson]hotmail.com> wrote regarding Re: Moraine's
letter to Thom (possible spoiler):
> "charles miller" <cm1...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:fd6af37b.03012...@posting.google.com...
> > Spoiler Space
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Mat jumped to his feet. In his head was an image of a woman with a knife
> stuck between her breasts; not one of the borrowed memories. He kicked
the
> keg he had been sitting on, sending it rolling along the alley. Help a
> gleeman keep them alive? A faint memory stirred, something about Basel
Gill,
> an innkeeper in Caemlyn, saying something about Thom, but it was like
mist,
> gone as soon as he tried to hold it. ***"Who's the letter from, Thom?
> Another woman you rescued? OR DID YOU LEAVE HER WHERE SHE COULD GET HER
HEAD
> CUT OFF?"***
Interesting phrasing when you consider Tylin.
Sorry about posting to such an old message, I'm a newbie and slowly
catching up, but I couldn't resist commenting on this.
Teri
Ben Goodman
>
> This is a bit of a segue, but here goes: It has already been agreed by
> consensus that Thom will rescue Moiraine. And something that has always
> pissed me off is that Mat never made the connection between the *finn and
> the Snakes and the Foxes that Olver always made him play. But in CoT,
> _Thom_ is the one that plays S&F with Olver. And Thom is certainly cagey
> enough to put two and two together.
Thom doesn't have both sets of two. He only knows about the odd game. I
would expect Thom to figure out something if he'd ever been through one
of the doorways or if Mat ever talked about his experiences there. As it
is, Thom knows only about the game, not the real *finn.
Jeff McIsaac
"Ben Goodman" <goo...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:b5d720$2871h7$1...@ID-157696.news.dfncis.de...
Excellent point. But Brigitte does. So all we have to do is get Brigitte
and Thom in the same room.....
Davian
"Jeff McIsaac" <quat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EGFea.4634$lQ4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "Ben Goodman" <goo...@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:b5d720$2871h7$1...@ID-157696.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > Thom doesn't have both sets of two. He only knows about the odd game. I
> > would expect Thom to figure out something if he'd ever been through one
> > of the doorways or if Mat ever talked about his experiences there. As it
> > is, Thom knows only about the game, not the real *finn.
> >
>
> Excellent point. But Brigitte does. So all we have to do is get Brigitte
> and Thom in the same room.....
>
Or really Birgitte and anyone, with a reason to bring it up.
One chance comment by Mat or Rand, and Birgitte could tell them. would
understand it... even Mat / Rand and Perrin might be able to figure it out,
since Birgitte told him.
Ben Goodman
Huh? Birgitte only knows what Mat told her and she won't even tell that
to Elayne without his permission. If he was there to give permission,
he's there to tell it. It's not beyond comprehension that she knows
something about the Tower of Ghenji (more or less what Hopper knew), but
there's no evidence that she knows anything specific about the *finn
other than what Mat told her (and I can't imagine he was all that specific).
What I think it would require is Thom showing Mat (or maybe Rand)
Moiraine's letter before they even consider trying to rescue her. It's
not that likely, but hey, Mat's a Tav'eren. And then they have to figure
out how to invade *finnland. That would involve talking to someone like
Verin, some other Aes Sedai, or maybe Perrin. Perrin would be a bit of a
stretch since he's never met the *finn. I don't think he'd make the
connection with the Tower of Ghenji. We do (correctly or incorrectly)
because we've been looking for a way to get Moiraine back for a long
time and they're the only otherworldly nasties we know about. It doesn't
follow that he'd make that broad leap.
The best way, in fact, is for Thom to show Mat the letter and then for
Mat to tell him about the gateway Ter'angreal in Tear and then for Thom
to ask the Aelfinn how to rescue her. Of course this would require the
letter hinting that she might still be alive, it may not. If it doesn't
it requires Min to tell him about her viewing (or at least Rand passing
the viewing on).
Quinn
"Davian" <dav...@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:b5fhhb$a6g$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
Birgitte is slowly forgetting her past lives -- could it be that she's
forgotten about the Tower already? Who's to say that she won't forget
things that happened during the in-between times in T'A'R. Perrin, on the
other hand, knows of the Tower, and Mat knows of both the game and the
world. I believe that our heroes will figure it out once Mat and Perrin
reunite, which (the Creator willing) will happen in the next book when they
_both_ go save Rand. Thom will drag Mat along for his luck, and Aludra for
her matches, and maybe Tuon will come too, so we can see how she holds up in
a fight.
Mat: "Dude, those Snaky folk had the right idea - it ain't so bad being
married to the DotNM."
Perrin: "What are you talking about?"
Mat: "Oh, just that I went through this doorway in Tear and talked to some
Snaky people, who answered me some questions. There were more, in Rhuidean,
only they were Foxy people, not Snaky people, and they cheated." <explains
his 2 encounters> "Good thing that doorway's gone, now. Too bad though
that Moiraine had to fall into it and destroy it. I mean, she was
manipulative and all, but at least she didn't try to bully me into giving up
my medallion."
Thom: <sighs, pulls out letter and looks at it longingly>
Olver, background: "Let's play again, High Lady Tuon! 'Courage to
strengthen, yahdah yahdah yahdah...'"
Mat: <what Olver said jostles his memory, but he can't place it>
Perrin: "Why don't you just tell him that 'Snakes and Foxes' can't be won
unless you break the rules?"
Mat: "'Snakes and Foxes?' Burn me for a light-blinded fool! I bet that
game is based on those bloody Snaky and Foxy people! Yes, their worlds were
even set up like the game; one was curvy, the other straight. Huh, who'd
have thought?"
Perrin: <thinks slowly, methodically so as not to say something dumb;
laughs> "I guess you'd have been better off if you had broken the rules with
them, then."
Mat: "Yeah, too bad I can't get back there again. You can only go through
once. I sure wish there were another way in."
Perrin: <continues to think slowly; random thoughts on how beautiful Faile
is> "Well, there is this Tower in Andor that leads to another place. I saw
it my my wolf dream once. I think it leads to some other place." <explains
about the wolves, Slayer, Birgitte>
Mat: <dice begin tumbling in his head>
Thom: "Could you find this Tower in the real world, do you think? Tell me,
man! My sex life depends on it!"
Perrin: "Uh, sure, I guess so. It's near the River that goes through
Whitebridge." [I can't remember the name] "Why?"
Thom: <shows letter from Moiraine> "This implies she may yet be alive, and
if the last she was seen was going through that doorway, then my bet is
she's still there. What do you say, Mat? Want a chance to get back at
those guys?"
Mat: "Sure, why not?" <dice in head stop tumbling; mutters to himself,
'blood and bloody ashes'>
Olver, background: "Aw, man, we lost again. Okay, one more time; 'Courage
to strenghten...'"
Mat: "You know, I think that stupid rhyme is the key. We just need some
music, some iron, and some fire. Let's saddle up and kick some *finn tail!"
<lets out rebel yell>
Davian
"Ben Goodman" <goo...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:b5fur6$28hdqg$1...@ID-157696.news.dfncis.de...
>
>
> Davian wrote:
*Snakes and Foxes, Tower of Ghenji*
> >
> > Or really Birgitte and anyone, with a reason to bring it up.
> >
> > One chance comment by Mat or Rand, and Birgitte could tell them. would
> > understand it... even Mat / Rand and Perrin might be able to figure it
out,
> > since Birgitte told him.
> >
> >
>
> Huh? Birgitte only knows what Mat told her and she won't even tell that
> to Elayne without his permission. If he was there to give permission,
> he's there to tell it. It's not beyond comprehension that she knows
> something about the Tower of Ghenji (more or less what Hopper knew), but
> there's no evidence that she knows anything specific about the *finn
> other than what Mat told her (and I can't imagine he was all that
specific).
>
She knows everything about it. And Mat told her nothing. In _the Shadow
Rising_ she meets Perrin, in the chapter "To the Tower of Ghen'ji". In
that chapter, she explains to Perrin everything about the two 'Finns.
Hopper says nothing other than "Don't go in there, it's death to go in."
> What I think it would require is Thom showing Mat (or maybe Rand)
> Moiraine's letter before they even consider trying to rescue her. It's
> not that likely, but hey, Mat's a Tav'eren. And then they have to figure
> out how to invade *finnland. That would involve talking to someone like
> Verin, some other Aes Sedai, or maybe Perrin. Perrin would be a bit of a
> stretch since he's never met the *finn. I don't think he'd make the
> connection with the Tower of Ghenji.
As I was saying, any of the three of them getting together and talking
(Yeah, sure, in this series?!?) or having a chance comment reveal it, is all
that it would take for one of them to figure it out.
> We do (correctly or incorrectly)
> because we've been looking for a way to get Moiraine back for a long
> time and they're the only otherworldly nasties we know about. It doesn't
> follow that he'd make that broad leap.
>
We know it because we were told it specificly by Birgitte.
Jeff
Davian / Dearic
Kit
[snip intersting discussion of knowledge of ToG]
> Olver, background: "Aw, man, we lost again. Okay, one more time; 'Courage
> to strenghten...'"
>
> Mat: "You know, I think that stupid rhyme is the key. We just need some
> music, some iron, and some fire. Let's saddle up and kick some *finn tail!"
> <lets out rebel yell>
Notice how Olver says "we lost"? We don't know much about this game,
but it seems to me that it may well be played by the two players
*together*, presumably co-operatively, and *against* the *finn.
Remember how Matt and Rand went in together, but started (as it were)
at different places?
I wonder what the starting positions for the game are? I could come
up with lots of theories here, but there's not enough data to go on.
I'm looking forward to seeing how RJ works it.
Kit
--
Quinn
"Kit" <maxine...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a86cf60.03032...@posting.google.com...
> "Quinn" <bake...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<b5g6jn$27vem2$1...@ID-186901.news.dfncis.de>...
>
> [snip intersting discussion of knowledge of ToG]
>
> > Olver, background: "Aw, man, we lost again. Okay, one more time;
'Courage
> > to strenghten...'"
> >
> > Mat: "You know, I think that stupid rhyme is the key. We just need some
> > music, some iron, and some fire. Let's saddle up and kick some *finn
tail!"
> > <lets out rebel yell>
>
> Notice how Olver says "we lost"? We don't know much about this game,
> but it seems to me that it may well be played by the two players
> *together*, presumably co-operatively, and *against* the *finn.
This was my impression of the game as well.
> Remember how Matt and Rand went in together, but started (as it were)
> at different places?
They didn't go in together, at the same time. They went in at slightly
different times, as did Moiraine, and all came out at slightly different
times. As to why they never saw each other, it could be that they were "set
down," so to speak, in different parts of the world.
> I wonder what the starting positions for the game are? I could come
> up with lots of theories here, but there's not enough data to go on.
> I'm looking forward to seeing how RJ works it.
Isn't there a description of the game in the books? I don't have my books
with me, but IIRC each player is trying to move their pieces somewhere
(either from the edge to the center, or from the center to the edge, or some
such). Also, every time they move, they have to move the snakes and foxes
toward their pieces, by the most direct route. One can only take curved
routes, and the other can only take straight routes. Anyone have the books
and care to reference this? I think it's while Mat is heading south to
Maredo, before he gets diverted to Salidar. I guess that would be LoC?
Kutulu
wrote:
>>>"Ben Goodman" <goo...@netzero.net> wrote in message
>>>news:b5d720$2871h7$1...@ID-157696.news.dfncis.de...
>>>>Thom doesn't have both sets of two. He only knows about the odd game. I
>>>>would expect Thom to figure out something if he'd ever been through one
>>>>of the doorways or if Mat ever talked about his experiences there. As it
>>>>is, Thom knows only about the game, not the real *finn.
>The best way, in fact, is for Thom to show Mat the letter and then for
>Mat to tell him about the gateway Ter'angreal in Tear and then for Thom
>to ask the Aelfinn how to rescue her. Of course this would require the
>letter hinting that she might still be alive, it may not. If it doesn't
>it requires Min to tell him about her viewing (or at least Rand passing
>the viewing on).
Of course, it's just as likely that someone else will be trapped in
Finnland, someone the main characters actually know about, and between
Perrin/Mat/Thom they all collectively figure out how to go in and
rescue them. And stumble upon Moraine in the process.
--K