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Aes Sedai Breaks First Oath! A Memory Of Light Spoilers
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TB
Apr 21, 2013, 11:30:36 PM4/21/13
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PP 130-131: Emarin, (Asha'man trainee) Androl (another Asha'man
trainee), and Pevara Sedai have captured Dobster, and Asha'man who has
been Turned to the Shadow. Pevara unblocks the block on Dobster's
ears so that he can hear Emarin and Androl discuss setting up a Grey
Tower to compete with the Black and White Towers. Emarin then asks
Pevara "He cannot hear what we say?", and Pevara says "No", which
would be a lie, contradicting the First Oath against lying.
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PP 130-131: Emarin, (Asha'man trainee) Androl (another Asha'man
trainee), and Pevara Sedai have captured Dobster, and Asha'man who has
been Turned to the Shadow. Pevara unblocks the block on Dobster's
ears so that he can hear Emarin and Androl discuss setting up a Grey
Tower to compete with the Black and White Towers. Emarin then asks
Pevara "He cannot hear what we say?", and Pevara says "No", which
would be a lie, contradicting the First Oath against lying.
David Goldfarb
Apr 21, 2013, 11:39:14 PM4/21/13
to
Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
--
David Goldfarb |
goldf...@gmail.com | Private .sig -- please do not read.
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
--
David Goldfarb |
goldf...@gmail.com | Private .sig -- please do not read.
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
Chucky @ Work
Apr 22, 2013, 2:41:46 AM4/22/13
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On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:39:14 GMT, gold...@kithrup.com (David
Goldfarb) wrote:
>Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
>and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
>was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
>
>Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
Are you serious?
Goldfarb) wrote:
>Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
>and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
>was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
>
>Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
C@w
--
13 of 12, the CMM Collective
CHOW:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/chow-a-dance-with-dragons/
Give a hoot, read my book:
http://stchucky.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/arsebook-my-rear-in-status-2011/
Chucky @ Work
Apr 22, 2013, 2:43:14 AM4/22/13
to
there was some technicality there which would allow her to get away
with it. Maybe she meant "no, he *can* hear what we say," but the
whole thing was worded ambiguously because they wanted him to think
*they thought* he couldn't hear them.
David DeLaney
Apr 22, 2013, 5:17:08 AM4/22/13
to
Chucky @ Work <st.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
>gold...@kithrup.com (David Goldfarb) wrote:
>>Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
>>and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
>>was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
>>
>>Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
>
>Are you serious?
He probably is ... but he's also following up to Tim Bruening, who almost
>gold...@kithrup.com (David Goldfarb) wrote:
>>Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
>>and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
>>was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
>>
>>Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
>
>Are you serious?
certainly will totally ignore any such request because he's been crossposting
OCD-ically for ages.
Also sorry about the blank email reply, hit the wrong button.
Dave (that's what SHE said)
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Rast
Apr 22, 2013, 10:07:05 AM4/22/13
to
Chucky @ Work wrote...
Emarin, who Pevara knows knows the truth.
She is deceiving Dobster, but:
(1) She isn't deceiving him about the substance of what she is saying,
because he knows very well that he can hear what they are saying.
She's deceiving him about her intentions.
and (2) it might be OK to lie for the benefit of eavesdroppers, on the
rationale that one is not talking *to* them.
Ultimately, the Oath is enforced by Pevara's perceptions, not by any
objective standard, so if she can genuinely convince herself that the
words are technically not a lie, she can say them.
"One of a thousand weaknesses of those fool oaths."
> >PP 130-131: Emarin, (Asha'man trainee) Androl (another Asha'man
> >trainee), and Pevara Sedai have captured Dobster, and Asha'man who has
> >been Turned to the Shadow. Pevara unblocks the block on Dobster's
> >ears so that he can hear Emarin and Androl discuss setting up a Grey
> >Tower to compete with the Black and White Towers. Emarin then asks
> >Pevara "He cannot hear what we say?", and Pevara says "No", which
> >would be a lie, contradicting the First Oath against lying.
>
> Hmm, I'd have to take another look at that scene, I'm pretty sure
> there was some technicality there which would allow her to get away
> with it. Maybe she meant "no, he *can* hear what we say," but the
> whole thing was worded ambiguously because they wanted him to think
> *they thought* he couldn't hear them.
I don't think it counts as a lie, because there is no intent to deceive
> >trainee), and Pevara Sedai have captured Dobster, and Asha'man who has
> >been Turned to the Shadow. Pevara unblocks the block on Dobster's
> >ears so that he can hear Emarin and Androl discuss setting up a Grey
> >Tower to compete with the Black and White Towers. Emarin then asks
> >Pevara "He cannot hear what we say?", and Pevara says "No", which
> >would be a lie, contradicting the First Oath against lying.
>
> Hmm, I'd have to take another look at that scene, I'm pretty sure
> there was some technicality there which would allow her to get away
> with it. Maybe she meant "no, he *can* hear what we say," but the
> whole thing was worded ambiguously because they wanted him to think
> *they thought* he couldn't hear them.
Emarin, who Pevara knows knows the truth.
She is deceiving Dobster, but:
(1) She isn't deceiving him about the substance of what she is saying,
because he knows very well that he can hear what they are saying.
She's deceiving him about her intentions.
and (2) it might be OK to lie for the benefit of eavesdroppers, on the
rationale that one is not talking *to* them.
Ultimately, the Oath is enforced by Pevara's perceptions, not by any
objective standard, so if she can genuinely convince herself that the
words are technically not a lie, she can say them.
"One of a thousand weaknesses of those fool oaths."
TB
Apr 22, 2013, 4:35:14 PM4/22/13
to
On Apr 22, 7:45 am, Aaron <ahste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> They had arranged, as you say, to put on a play for him. To say this violates the oath against lying is to say that an Aes Sedai cannot act in any play or any other sort of make-believe. Basically, they arranged that he would ask if Dobbie can hear, and she would say "no". Thus, she's not lying, she's *acting*
Have you ever heard of an AS acting in a play on screen?
> On Monday, April 22, 2013 2:43:14 AM UTC-4, Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster wrote:
> > On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT), TB
>
> > On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:30:36 -0700 (PDT), TB
>
Have you ever heard of an AS acting in a play on screen?
TB
Apr 22, 2013, 4:37:10 PM4/22/13
to
On Apr 21, 8:39 pm, goldf...@kithrup.com (David Goldfarb) wrote:
> Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
> and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
> was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
However, there doesn't seem to be much Wheel of Time traffic these
> Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
> and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
> was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
days. Are you sure that its necessary to keep such traffic out of
rec.arts.sf.written?
Chucky @ Work
Apr 23, 2013, 3:48:42 AM4/23/13
to
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:07:05 -0400, Rast <ra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >PP 130-131: Emarin, (Asha'man trainee) Androl (another Asha'man
>> >trainee), and Pevara Sedai have captured Dobster, and Asha'man who has
>> >been Turned to the Shadow. Pevara unblocks the block on Dobster's
>> >ears so that he can hear Emarin and Androl discuss setting up a Grey
>> >Tower to compete with the Black and White Towers. Emarin then asks
>> >Pevara "He cannot hear what we say?", and Pevara says "No", which
>> >would be a lie, contradicting the First Oath against lying.
>>
>> Hmm, I'd have to take another look at that scene, I'm pretty sure
>> there was some technicality there which would allow her to get away
>> with it. Maybe she meant "no, he *can* hear what we say," but the
>> whole thing was worded ambiguously because they wanted him to think
>> *they thought* he couldn't hear them.
>
>I don't think it counts as a lie, because there is no intent to deceive
>Emarin, who Pevara knows knows the truth.
Good point.
>> >PP 130-131: Emarin, (Asha'man trainee) Androl (another Asha'man
>> >trainee), and Pevara Sedai have captured Dobster, and Asha'man who has
>> >been Turned to the Shadow. Pevara unblocks the block on Dobster's
>> >ears so that he can hear Emarin and Androl discuss setting up a Grey
>> >Tower to compete with the Black and White Towers. Emarin then asks
>> >Pevara "He cannot hear what we say?", and Pevara says "No", which
>> >would be a lie, contradicting the First Oath against lying.
>>
>> Hmm, I'd have to take another look at that scene, I'm pretty sure
>> there was some technicality there which would allow her to get away
>> with it. Maybe she meant "no, he *can* hear what we say," but the
>> whole thing was worded ambiguously because they wanted him to think
>> *they thought* he couldn't hear them.
>
>I don't think it counts as a lie, because there is no intent to deceive
>Emarin, who Pevara knows knows the truth.
>She is deceiving Dobster, but:
>(1) She isn't deceiving him about the substance of what she is saying,
>because he knows very well that he can hear what they are saying.
>She's deceiving him about her intentions.
>and (2) it might be OK to lie for the benefit of eavesdroppers, on the
>rationale that one is not talking *to* them.
>Ultimately, the Oath is enforced by Pevara's perceptions, not by any
>objective standard, so if she can genuinely convince herself that the
>words are technically not a lie, she can say them.
>
>"One of a thousand weaknesses of those fool oaths."
lot to lie to people. No wonder nobody trusted or liked them. The Oath
about lying was really pretty pointless in the end. Although it was an
interesting characteristic. And "The Couple Of Oaths" isn't very
punchy.
Chucky @ Work
Apr 23, 2013, 4:01:20 AM4/23/13
to
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 05:17:08 -0400, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David
DeLaney) wrote:
>>>Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
>>>and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
>>>was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
>>>
>>>Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
>>
>>Are you serious?
>
>He probably is ... but he's also following up to Tim Bruening, who almost
>certainly will totally ignore any such request because he's been crossposting
>OCD-ically for ages.
Hee, true. Although he *does* reply to actual responses.
DeLaney) wrote:
>>>Can I ask you please not to crosspost between rec.arts.sf.written
>>>and rasfw.robert-jordan? The whole point of creating rasfw.r-j
>>>was to take Wheel of Time traffic *out* of rasfw.
>>>
>>>Followups set to rasfw.r-j.
>>
>>Are you serious?
>
>He probably is ... but he's also following up to Tim Bruening, who almost
>certainly will totally ignore any such request because he's been crossposting
>OCD-ically for ages.
>Also sorry about the blank email reply, hit the wrong button.
be so kicking with life that this handful of Wheel of Time posts would
classify as unwelcome sideline spam. The split was orchestrated back
in the day when rasfw was a huge and generic group, and Jordan-talk
was filling it up to such a degree that a separate group was
warranted. That hardly seems to be the case now.
Mind you, I am still all for the idea of moving Sanderson discussion
into the Jordan groups.
TB
Apr 26, 2013, 8:49:19 PM4/26/13
to
On Apr 23, 9:47 am, Aaron <ahste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A completely irrelevant question to which you know the answer.
>
> The only "plays" in the entire series, IIRC, are from gleemen and the like. That means nothing.
This has been such a long series that I thought I might have missed an
AS play admist all the wordage!
I do remember Leane Sedai helping Min play the part of a dim headed
girl in The Shadow Rising!
>
> The only "plays" in the entire series, IIRC, are from gleemen and the like. That means nothing.
This has been such a long series that I thought I might have missed an
AS play admist all the wordage!
I do remember Leane Sedai helping Min play the part of a dim headed
girl in The Shadow Rising!
Timothy Bruening
Apr 5, 2022, 11:03:54 AM4/5/22
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