Translations of WoT-terms

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Maarten D. de Jong

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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When discussing the Wheel of Time with a few friends, I discovered it is
really quite difficult to translate a few keywords into my native language---
Dutch. I've read a Dutch translation of the WoT-books, but the translations
seem needlessly theatrical. I wondered if people speaking other germanistic
languages have the same trouble with:

One Power
taint
Blight
to channel
Pattern
Waygate
Wheel of Time (especially 'wheel'!)

Maarten


Rick Waters

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Dec 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/30/97
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Maarten D. de Jong wrote ...


Yes. English.

--
Rick Waters
rwa...@erols.com

Benny V

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
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Maarten D. de Jong <maa...@cpt6.stm.tudelft.nl> skrev i
inlägg <68bp8p$jjk$1...@news.tudelft.nl>...


> When discussing the Wheel of Time with a few friends, I
discovered it is
> really quite difficult to translate a few keywords into
my native language---
> Dutch. I've read a Dutch translation of the WoT-books,
but the translations
> seem needlessly theatrical. I wondered if people speaking
other germanistic
> languages have the same trouble with:
>
> One Power

In the swedish translation that becomes _Kraften_ which
translated to English becomes _the_Force_.

> to channel

Becomes _att_leda_ which becomes _to_direct_

> Waygate

Becomes _Port_ which becomes _Gate_

We have some other problems to.
I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
the word "Gateway".

Benny Välitalo

Kjell Stahl

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
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On 31 Dec 1997 00:15:13 GMT, "Benny V" <be...@mbox310.swipnet.se>
wrote:

>We have some other problems to.
>I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
>the word "Gateway".

I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
Fördärv."

Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)

--
Kjell Stahl -- kst...@hem2.passagen.se
http://hem2.passagen.se/kstahl/
"I consider myself a nice guy. So should you."

Richard M. Boye'

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
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Kjell Stahl wrote:
>
> On 31 Dec 1997 00:15:13 GMT, "Benny V" <be...@mbox310.swipnet.se>
> wrote:
>
> >We have some other problems to.
> >I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
> >the word "Gateway".
>
> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
> Fördärv."
>
> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)

How so?


--
Richard M. Boye'
* wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/
"I like having low self-esteem. It makes me feel special."

Kjell Stahl

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
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On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:25:30 -0500, "Richard M. Boye'"
<wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

>Kjell Stahl wrote:
>>
>> On 31 Dec 1997 00:15:13 GMT, "Benny V" <be...@mbox310.swipnet.se>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >We have some other problems to.
>> >I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
>> >the word "Gateway".
>>
>> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
>> Fördärv."
>>
>> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)
>
>How so?

Well, if something was blighted, we would say "fördärvad" in
Sweden. And "stor" means big, large, or something similar...

Richard M. Boye'

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
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Kjell Stahl wrote:
>
> On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:25:30 -0500, "Richard M. Boye'"
> <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>
> >Kjell Stahl wrote:
> >>
> >> On 31 Dec 1997 00:15:13 GMT, "Benny V" <be...@mbox310.swipnet.se>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >We have some other problems to.
> >> >I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
> >> >the word "Gateway".
> >>
> >> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
> >> Fördärv."
> >>
> >> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)
> >
> >How so?
>
> Well, if something was blighted, we would say "fördärvad" in
> Sweden. And "stor" means big, large, or something similar...

So basically it means the "Big Rot"?

That is kinda grody.

Mathias Cederholm

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Dec 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/31/97
to

Kjell Stahl wrote:
>
> On 31 Dec 1997 00:15:13 GMT, "Benny V" <be...@mbox310.swipnet.se>
> wrote:
>
> >We have some other problems to.
> >I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
> >the word "Gateway".
>
> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
> Fördärv."
>
> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)
>
> --
> Kjell Stahl -- kst...@hem2.passagen.se
> http://hem2.passagen.se/kstahl/
> "I consider myself a nice guy. So should you."

I agree...many of the words suck when they get into swedish...
It´s like when you translate sentences in movies like:
I´ll be back - Jag kommer tillbaka ---- It sounds so WRONG!!!
--
==========================
Mathias Cederholm
cede...@hotmail.com
http://truelight.base.org
==========================


Kjell Stahl

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Jan 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/2/98
to

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:58:08 +0100, Mathias Cederholm
<mathias....@vasteras.mail.telia.com> wrote:

[snip]

>I agree...many of the words suck when they get into swedish...
>It´s like when you translate sentences in movies like:
>I´ll be back - Jag kommer tillbaka ---- It sounds so WRONG!!!

Amen, brother.

Johan Grahnen

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Jan 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/2/98
to

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:58:08 +0100, it seems Mathias Cederholm
<mathias....@vasteras.mail.telia.com> wrote something like this:

<ka-snip!>


>
>I agree...many of the words suck when they get into swedish...

>It愀 like when you translate sentences in movies like:
>I惻l be back - Jag kommer tillbaka ---- It sounds so WRONG!!!

Try my favorite: Game Over. That one really sounds goofy..
And for a good line in LoC (I think): Kneel, or be knelt. I sure
wouldn't like to be a translator for these books.

--
Johan Grahnen (with an acute e)
anita....@mbox200.swipnet.se
"Religion is an excuse for the religious" - Kublai Khan

Eivind Hagen Liljedahl

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Jan 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/3/98
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Benny V skrev i artikkelen

> >
> > >We have some other problems to.
> > >I'm just waiting to see what the translators will do with
> > >the word "Gateway".
> >
> > I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
> > Fördärv."
> >

> --
>
Like it's better in Norwegian? They translated Lanfear to Lan-
frykt, like it's what it's supposed to mean. It's a name god-damnit.
And Maidens of the Spear became Spyd-jomfruer!!!!
I don't read the Norwegian translation at all, because of the way english
and norwegian works it becomes extremly High Chant sometimes.


Magnus Itland

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Jan 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/3/98
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maa...@cpt6.stm.tudelft.nl (Maarten D. de Jong) wrote:

>When discussing the Wheel of Time with a few friends, I discovered it is
>really quite difficult to translate a few keywords into my native language---
>Dutch. I've read a Dutch translation of the WoT-books, but the translations
>seem needlessly theatrical. I wondered if people speaking other germanistic
>languages have the same trouble with:

>One Power


>taint
>Blight
>to channel
>Pattern
>Waygate
>Wheel of Time (especially 'wheel'!)

The Norwegian translation is a bit more old-fashioned in its
language than the original, and some of the key words are
indeed looking weird. Some of it had to be done:

There is no construction like "the Dark One" in Norwegian,
a literal translation would convey a different meaning
(namely that only one was Dark and nobody else was).
So they chose a construction equivalent to "the Darkest",
not a bad shot really.

The Blight is translated as the Land of Plague. Strange?
In Norwegian at least it looks better than "big rot"...

Stedding is translated as Secret Garden. Is there an
actual English word stedding with such a meaning?

To gentle a male channler has turned into a word which
literally means to soften. It looks strange, and could
probably been done better. ("Mildne" would be a more
literal translation than "mykne" and convey the original
euphemism. Now it looks quite squishy.)

Darkfriends are now "relatives of the Dark" or "family
of the Dark". While this may be theologically correct,
it is completely unnecessary. A literal translation is
possible and would hardly look more peculiar.

The Breaking is translated as the Destruction. A bit
over the top, perhaps.

There are also some unbelievable changes. Ogiers are
renamed Ogurs, Kari is Kahri, Tear is Rift, and the
Two Rivers are Twin Rivers.

But the Wheel of Time is correctly translated as
Tidshjulet.

--
itl...@online.no Yes! The one and only Magnus Itland.
And what, exactly, is that camel doing in my bedroom?


Dagurashibanipal

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Jan 3, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/3/98
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On 30 Dec 1997 21:32:09 GMT, maa...@cpt6.stm.tudelft.nl (Maarten D.
de Jong) wrote:

[Trouble with translations to Dutch]

Me and my fellow WoTitians I know all read the books in English, so I
can't say anything about the German translation (although I've seen it
in the bookstore: They split each Book, so they are at volume 14 by
now!).

But whenever I discuss the books with a collegue, we do this 50% in
English (We begin German, and after some time we semi-unconciously
change between English and German - I cite s/thing in English, make an
English remark and then comes a word I don't know in English, so I
continue the sentence in german... Very funny, but I fear it doen't
raise the quality of my English.
--
Greets from over there
Dagurashibanipal
avbi...@datacomm.ch

For a moment, nothing happended.
Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.

MSartwell

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Jan 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/4/98
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Magnus Italnd wondered:

>Stedding is translated as Secret Garden. Is there an
>actual English word stedding with such a meaning?

The closest relevant word to "stedding" that I can think of is "homestead,"
which means a farm with a house and outlying buildings, such as a barn. In the
US, at least, it calls up images
of the settlement of the West and suggests a place of refuge
in a wilderness.

Of course, there's also "steadfast," a quality which is easily
conected with the Ogier.

>The Blight is translated as the Land of Plague. Strange?
>In Norwegian at least it looks better than "big rot"...

Strictly speaking, in English a blight is an infection of a plant. By
extension it has come to mean a kind of pollution. So Land of
Plague seems alright, but doesn't have the immediate tie to
the corruption of vegetation that Blight does. This is probably
what someone was after when they decided to call the Blight
the Big Rot.

Richard M. Boye'

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Jan 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/4/98
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Magnus Itland wrote:
>
> Stedding is translated as Secret Garden. Is there an
> actual English word stedding with such a meaning?

No, not really. I would think that "fictitious" words like 'stedding'
would be untranslatable. Or, that they not need to be translated.


> Darkfriends are now "relatives of the Dark" or "family
> of the Dark". While this may be theologically correct,
> it is completely unnecessary. A literal translation is
> possible and would hardly look more peculiar.


"Family of the Dark" huh? Sounds like the holiday season at my house.

>
> There are also some unbelievable changes. Ogiers are
> renamed Ogurs, Kari is Kahri, Tear is Rift, and the
> Two Rivers are Twin Rivers.

Tear is Rift? That's odd. So what are Tairens?

Christian R. Conrad

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Jan 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/5/98
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On Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:20:57 -0500,
"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> said:


> Tear is Rift? That's odd. So what are Tairens?

Dem be de Rifters. An dat be shortened to d'Rifters.

Drifters? Yep, has to be.


Christian R. Conrad

--
Sole owner of all opinions (except quotes!) expressed above.
==========================================================================
"In the unlikely event of losing Pascal's Wager, I intend to saunter in to
Judgement Day with a bookshelf full of grievances, a flaming sword of my own
devising, and a serious attitude problem." Rick Moen, in r.a.s.f.w.r-j.

Magnus Itland

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Jan 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/5/98
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"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>Magnus Itland wrote:

>> There are also some unbelievable changes. Ogiers are
>> renamed Ogurs, Kari is Kahri, Tear is Rift, and the
>> Two Rivers are Twin Rivers.

>Tear is Rift? That's odd. So what are Tairens?

People from Rift, it seems. And Falme is Faelm.
Birgitte is Bergithe.

Johan Grahnen

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Jan 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/6/98
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On Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:06:13 GMT, it seems itl...@online.no (Magnus
Itland) wrote something like this:

>"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>>Magnus Itland wrote:
>
>>> There are also some unbelievable changes. Ogiers are
>>> renamed Ogurs, Kari is Kahri, Tear is Rift, and the
>>> Two Rivers are Twin Rivers.
>
>>Tear is Rift? That's odd. So what are Tairens?
>
>People from Rift, it seems. And Falme is Faelm.
>Birgitte is Bergithe.
>

Thank god I live in Sweden! The translation stills sounds funny, but
at least they got the names right (well, in most places). Some things
went wrong, though: The Dark One became the Black One, and the
dreadlords became blacklords. All of a sudden, we have the Forsaken
being the Lost Ones (de Förlorade, in swedish), too. Had I been Aiel,
I would have had real problems with the last one......

Mattias Lidman

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Jan 6, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/6/98
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Johan Grahnen <anita....@mbox200.swipnet.se> wrote
<34b226e5...@nntpserver.swip.net>...

> >>> There are also some unbelievable changes. Ogiers are
> >>> renamed Ogurs, Kari is Kahri, Tear is Rift, and the
> >>> Two Rivers are Twin Rivers.
> >
> >>Tear is Rift? That's odd. So what are Tairens?
> >
> >People from Rift, it seems. And Falme is Faelm.
> >Birgitte is Bergithe.
> >
> Thank god I live in Sweden! The translation stills sounds funny, but
> at least they got the names right (well, in most places). Some things
> went wrong, though: The Dark One became the Black One, and the
> dreadlords became blacklords. All of a sudden, we have the Forsaken
> being the Lost Ones (de Förlorade, in swedish), too. Had I been Aiel,
> I would have had real problems with the last one......

Well, den Mörke for the DO and Skräck furstar for Dreadlords would be even
dumber, so you can't realy blame the translators.
Here's two more accidents that you can't realy blame the tranlators for:
In tSR when Perrin and c:o visits the tinkers camp someone (Gaul? Chiad?)
says somthing like 'we won't sleep with the Lost Ones' and runs off to camp
in the woods. This translated to swedish and then back to english would
be: we won't sleep with the Forsaken.
Another funny thing in the swedish translation is the Aiel habit to say
'shade of my life/heart' about the people they love. In swedish the word
for shade and shadow is the same, so we have Rhuarc calling his wifes
'shadow of my life'. This might seem a bit weird if you haven't read the
books in english.
What you can, however, blame the translators for are that they use realy
weird wording (at least in the first few books). If they got two words
that mean the same thing, they use the less known and less used. Like
'hirdmän' (used about Ingtars party that chased the Trollocs in tGH). I'm
not sure i would have had a clue what the word meant if I saw it in a
wordlist, or somewhere where the meaning wasn't made obvious by the way it
was mentioned.

--
Mattias Lidman
---
' You labeled me
I´ll label you
So I dub thee Unforgiven'
************TRANSMISSION ENDS*************

Karl-Johan Noren

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Jan 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/7/98
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In <34AAD5...@webspan.net>,

"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

> Kjell Stahl wrote:
> > "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

> > >Kjell Stahl wrote:
> > >> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
> > >> Fördärv."

> > >> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)

> > >How so?
> >
> > Well, if something was blighted, we would say "fördärvad" in
> > Sweden. And "stor" means big, large, or something similar...
>
> So basically it means the "Big Rot"?

Nope. You can say that rotten food is "fördärvad", but not
the other way around.

In the way it's used here (as a noun), it's actually rather
Biblical in its implications and pretty close to
"blight". So from that stand-point it's good, but I have
trouble with the adjective hanged on, and you can't make it
into the definite form without making it unweildy (it would
be "fördärvet") and loosing some of the implications. All
IMO of course.

--
Karl-Johan Norén (Noren with acute e) -- k-j-...@dsv.su.se
http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/
- To believe people are as stupid as one believes is
stupider than one can believe

Richard M. Boye'

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Jan 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/7/98
to

Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
>
> In <34AAD5...@webspan.net>,
> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>
> > Kjell Stahl wrote:
> > > "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
> > > >Kjell Stahl wrote:
> > > >> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
> > > >> Fördärv."
> > > >> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)
> > > >How so?
> > >
> > > Well, if something was blighted, we would say "fördärvad" in
> > > Sweden. And "stor" means big, large, or something similar...
> >
> > So basically it means the "Big Rot"?
>
> Nope. You can say that rotten food is "fördärvad", but not
> the other way around.

So it means the "Rotten Big"?

Sheesh. Why can't all you damned furriners speak English?

> In the way it's used here (as a noun), it's actually rather
> Biblical in its implications and pretty close to
> "blight". So from that stand-point it's good, but I have
> trouble with the adjective hanged on, and you can't make it
> into the definite form without making it unweildy (it would
> be "fördärvet") and loosing some of the implications. All
> IMO of course.

So, when you read WOT, do you read the English version or the Swedish
one?

Jouni Karhu

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Jan 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/7/98
to

>> >>> There are also some unbelievable changes. Ogiers are
>> >>> renamed Ogurs, Kari is Kahri, Tear is Rift, and the
>> >>> Two Rivers are Twin Rivers.
>> >
>> >>Tear is Rift? That's odd. So what are Tairens?
>> >
>> >People from Rift, it seems. And Falme is Faelm.
>> >Birgitte is Bergithe.

Then again, the names are obviously changed so that the speakers of
that tongue will pronounce them 'correctly'. Hell, Gorbachev is
Gorbatshov in Finland. Just a different transliteration. (Was that the
German translation, btw?)

Tear is understood to have meant something that is torn, and a rift
goes along the same lines. I think Tear is just Tear, and has nothing
to do with crying or ripping. Oh well.

How has Emond's Field been translated? I think the village got its
name from being Aemon's battlefield, thus -> Aemon's Field -> Emond's
Field. In the Finnish translation the only word that doesn't also
carry the meaning of battlefield, 'pelto', was chosen for 'field'. It
means the kind of field you use for farming. Oh well. I might be
wrong, of course :)


'I have something to say! | 'The Immoral Immortal' \o JJ Karhu
It is better to burn out, | -=========================OxxxxxxxxxxxO
than to fade away!' | kur...@modeemi.cs.tut.fi /o

Trinity

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Jan 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/7/98
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You know its been too long between WoT books when you start reading
a thread between Swedes and Norwegians about the miserable translations
of Robert Jordan...

...and actually find it interesting.

--
Trinity

Only eight or nine months until Book 8

Karl-Johan Noren

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Jan 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/8/98
to

In <34B414...@webspan.net>,

"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

> Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
> > "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
> > > Kjell Stahl wrote:
> > > > Well, if something was blighted, we would say "fördärvad" in
> > > > Sweden. And "stor" means big, large, or something similar...
> > > So basically it means the "Big Rot"?
> > Nope. You can say that rotten food is "fördärvad", but not
> > the other way around.
>
> So it means the "Rotten Big"?

Nope. Check the above again. Rotten/rutten implies
blight/fördärv, but not the other way around.

> Sheesh. Why can't all you damned furriners speak English?

Because English still is inferior to Swedish. HTH!

> > In the way it's used here (as a noun), it's actually rather
> > Biblical in its implications and pretty close to "blight". So from
> > that stand-point it's good, but I have trouble with the adjective
> > hanged on, and you can't make it into the definite form without
> > making it unweildy (it would be "fördärvet") and loosing some of
> > the implications. All IMO of course.
>
> So, when you read WOT, do you read the English version or the Swedish
> one?

The English.

Kjell Stahl

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Jan 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/8/98
to

On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:49:18 -0500, "Richard M. Boye'"
<wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

>Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
>>
>> In <34AAD5...@webspan.net>,


>> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>>

>> > Kjell Stahl wrote:
>> > > "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>> > > >Kjell Stahl wrote:

>> > > >> I hate the way they translated the Great Blight into "Stora
>> > > >> Fördärv."
>> > > >> Yuck. (But I suppose it's accurate.)
>> > > >How so?
>> > >

>> > > Well, if something was blighted, we would say "fördärvad" in
>> > > Sweden. And "stor" means big, large, or something similar...
>> >
>> > So basically it means the "Big Rot"?
>>
>> Nope. You can say that rotten food is "fördärvad", but not
>> the other way around.
>
>So it means the "Rotten Big"?
>

>Sheesh. Why can't all you damned furriners speak English?
>

>> In the way it's used here (as a noun), it's actually rather
>> Biblical in its implications and pretty close to
>> "blight". So from that stand-point it's good, but I have
>> trouble with the adjective hanged on, and you can't make it
>> into the definite form without making it unweildy (it would
>> be "fördärvet") and loosing some of the implications. All
>> IMO of course.
>
>So, when you read WOT, do you read the English version or the Swedish
>one?

Both. But I prefer the English versions.

Christian R. Conrad

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Jan 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/8/98
to

On 07 Jan 1998 21:58:41 +0100,
Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> said:

> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

[The Blight = "Stora Fördärv" (umlauts --> oe, ae)]

> > So basically it means the "Big Rot"?

> Nope. You can say that rotten food is "fördärvad", but not
> the other way around.

A more generic term, correlating better to "foerdaervad", is "spoiled".

So maybe the translation back into English should be the "Big Spoil"?

Christian R. Conrad

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Jan 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/8/98
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On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 02:00:41 GMT,
kur...@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Jouni Karhu) said:

[WoT names in translations]


> Then again, the names are obviously changed so that the speakers of
> that tongue will pronounce them 'correctly'. Hell, Gorbachev is
> Gorbatshov in Finland. Just a different transliteration. (Was that the
> German translation, btw?)

Almost, but not quite: Gorbatschow. I think.

[snip ]

> Emond's Field. In the Finnish translation the only word that doesn't
> also carry the meaning of battlefield, 'pelto', was chosen for 'field'.
> It means the kind of field you use for farming. Oh well. I might be
> wrong, of course :)

"Emondin Pelto", or what? ("Emondsvall" in Swedish, IIRC.)

Johan Grahnen

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Jan 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/9/98
to

On Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:51:30 GMT, it seems
christia...@hedengren.fi (Christian R. Conrad) wrote something
like this:

>On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 02:00:41 GMT,
>kur...@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Jouni Karhu) said:
>
>[WoT names in translations]

<snip finnish>


>("Emondsvall" in Swedish, IIRC.)

Yepp.

Iceberg

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Jan 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/9/98
to

Putting Bobby Beathard on hold Trinity <oha...@pop.erols.com> picked
up call-waiting and screamed . . .

Yeah and then about 5 years for the one after that. We had better hope
Jordan comes from a long-lived family because Book 12 should be due
about(lets add about 2 years additional time for each book) the year
2030. Hell, forget Jordan, I won't live that long. Absurd!

Iceberg


Paul E. Ward

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Jan 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/9/98
to

Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
> In <34B414...@webspan.net>,

> "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
> > Karl-Johan Noren wrote:
> > > "Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
> > > > Kjell Stahl wrote:
> > > > > [snip: Translation of "blighted"/"fördärvad"]

>
> > Sheesh. Why can't all you damned furriners speak English?
>
> Because English still is inferior to Swedish. HTH! [snip to end]

ObObscureReferenceToADFS: KJN, that is so true. But you forgot
to give the reason. You see, it's because Sweden has the Swedish
Chef and the word "Bork!" (or is it a grunt or some other
primeval Swedish noise?)

--

Paul Ward
nomrom....@cats.NOSPAM.ucsc.edu

LdyKaurya

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Jan 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/10/98
to

You know it's too long between books when you read David Eddings....


and LIKE it!

Or you start to figure out what Hanson and the Spice Girls are saying.


Beth McAdams
"Infinity stretched unlimitlessly" -Siouxsie and the Banshees

Kjell Stahl

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Jan 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/10/98
to

On Fri, 09 Jan 1998 20:18:03 GMT,
anita....@mbox200.swipnet.se (Johan Grahnen) wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:51:30 GMT, it seems
>christia...@hedengren.fi (Christian R. Conrad) wrote something
>like this:
>
>>On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 02:00:41 GMT,
>>kur...@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Jouni Karhu) said:
>>
>>[WoT names in translations]
><snip finnish>
>>("Emondsvall" in Swedish, IIRC.)
>
>Yepp.

ObYM: Yuck.

Robert W. Parker

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Jan 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/10/98
to

On 10 Jan 1998 00:26:27 GMT, ldyk...@aol.com (LdyKaurya) wrote:

>You know it's too long between books when you read David Eddings....
>
>
>and LIKE it!
>
>Or you start to figure out what Hanson and the Spice Girls are saying.
>
>

Both of those thoughts really scare me. Because I find that it is
happening to me. At least Aerosmith will tide me over till the new Pearl
Jam album. I don't have anything that does that for the WoT. Every
series is just so short now.
_

The eyes are the windows to the soul, and I see
that many people's are glazed over.

Bobby Parker


Magnus Itland

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Jan 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/10/98
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"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

>Sheesh. Why can't all you damned furriners speak English?

We can. We just don't want to.

--
itl...@online.no Yes! The one and only Magnus Itland.

Some children today have actually never tasted grass.


Magnus Itland

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Jan 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/10/98
to

kur...@modeemi.cs.tut.fi (Jouni Karhu) wrote:

>How has Emond's Field been translated? I think the village got its

>name from being Aemon's battlefield, thus -> Aemon's Field -> Emond's


>Field. In the Finnish translation the only word that doesn't also
>carry the meaning of battlefield, 'pelto', was chosen for 'field'. It
>means the kind of field you use for farming. Oh well. I might be
>wrong, of course :)

In Norwegian they actually got that one right. Emond's Field is
translated "Emondsmark", and battlefield is "slagmark". Then
again, place names ending in -mark are very common around here.
(Then *again*, so were battles.)

Bunnythor

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Jan 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/10/98
to

The Amazing Itland said:
>"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:

>>Sheesh. Why can't all you damned furriners speak English?

>We can. We just don't want to.

Yes, we've noticed that problem...especially with the British.

--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum

LdyKaurya

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Jan 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/11/98
to

Magnus Itland:

>Some children today have actually never tasted grass.

I can say (maybe not proudly) that I have tasted grass. And it's not too bad,
from what I remember.


Beth McAdams
"Infinity stretches unlimitlessly" -Siouxsie and the Banshees

Robert Pfeifer

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Jan 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/11/98
to

On 11 Jan 1998, LdyKaurya wrote:
}Magnus Itland:
}>Some children today have actually never tasted grass.
}
}I can say (maybe not proudly) that I have tasted grass. And it's not too bad,
}from what I remember.

Doesn't taste of all that much. Needs a teabag too.

Rob

--
"Jesus was five feet and three and a half inches long."
Rob Pfeifer - mzyg142 @ unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~mzyg142/


Dave Rothgery

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Jan 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/11/98
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Steve Moss wrote in message <01bd1eee$5a829940$ba1d...@stevem.ctaz.com>...
>Try George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones. The 2nd book is coming
>out in a couple of months.

Pretty good story, but there is one serious problem with this book.

It reads like the first third of a 2500+ page book, not one book. Even Lord
of Chaos had something of a climax and conclusion. But there wasn't even a
token death of a Minion of the Evil Overlord, or a crushing defeat that Our
Heroes barely survive.

--
Dave Rothgery WPI Computer Science '98
dave...@wpi.edu http://www.wpi.edu/~daveroth/

Steve Moss

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

Robert W. Parker <bobb...@juno.com> wrote in article
<34b7f4d4...@NNTP.ix.netcom.com>...

> On 10 Jan 1998 00:26:27 GMT, ldyk...@aol.com (LdyKaurya) wrote:

> Both of those thoughts really scare me. Because I find that it is
> happening to me. At least Aerosmith will tide me over till the
new Pearl
> Jam album. I don't have anything that does that for the WoT.
Every
> series is just so short now.

Try George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones. The 2nd book is coming


out in a couple of months.

--
Steven Moss

"Happiness is being at the top of the food chain." G.Harrison

email ste...@ctaz.com
homepage http://www.ctaz.com/~stevem/

Karl-Johan Noren

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

In <34bbce9c...@nntpserver.swip.net>,
kst...@hem2.passagen.se (Kjell Stahl) wrote:

> anita....@mbox200.swipnet.se (Johan Grahnen) wrote:
>
> >christia...@hedengren.fi (Christian R. Conrad) wrote something

> >>[WoT names in translations]


> >>("Emondsvall" in Swedish, IIRC.)
> >Yepp.
>
> ObYM: Yuck.

Actually, Emondsvall is quite good.

Or you haven't read its etymology. "vall" goes back to the
Old Norse word "val", which means battle and/or fallen (in
the meaning death). Compare eg "valplats" (archaic word for
battlefield), Valfader and valkyria.

Christian R. Conrad

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

On Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:54:07 -0800,
"Paul E. Ward" <nom...@cats.ucsc.edu> said:

> Karl-Johan Noren wrote:

> > Because English still is inferior to Swedish. HTH! [snip to end]

> ObObscureReferenceToADFS: KJN, that is so true. But you forgot
> to give the reason. You see, it's because Sweden has the Swedish
> Chef and the word "Bork!" (or is it a grunt or some other
> primeval Swedish noise?)

It's an _American_ grunt / other primeval noise, which is presumed by
innurant Merkins to _sound_ like Swedish. It doesn't very much, AFAICH.

The only word "bork" in Swedish is the _name_ of an ice hockey coach,
Leif Bork (or is that "Boork"? I'm not sure any more; help me, guys!).
Rather fittingly for someone whose very name is a Merkin joke, he is
widely regarded as a nut case in sports circles, if I understand it all
correctly. But, OTOH, he often got _results_, which of course excuses
most (or all?) of his eccentric training methods. In the eyes of many.

(Oh, and the name of a character in an Astrid Lindgren story.)

Michael Kozlowski

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

In article <69bqlq$hfv$1...@bigboote.WPI.EDU>,
Dave Rothgery <dave...@wpi.edu> wrote:

[A Game of Thrones]

>It reads like the first third of a 2500+ page book, not one book. Even Lord
>of Chaos had something of a climax and conclusion. But there wasn't even a
>token death of a Minion of the Evil Overlord, or a crushing defeat that Our
>Heroes barely survive.

Er? What about...

... Stark's death?

Personally, I thought the book moved along at a nice pace -- faster than
Jordan, certainly.

--
Michael Kozlowski m...@cs.wisc.edu
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mlk/sfbooks.html -- Recommended SF Reading

Dave Rothgery

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

Michael Kozlowski wrote in message <69dfda$g...@spool.cs.wisc.edu>...


>In article <69bqlq$hfv$1...@bigboote.WPI.EDU>,
>Dave Rothgery <dave...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>
>[A Game of Thrones]
>
>>It reads like the first third of a 2500+ page book, not one book.
>>Even Lord of Chaos had something of a climax and conclusion. But
>>there wasn't even a token death of a Minion of the Evil Overlord, or
>>a crushing defeat that Our Heroes barely survive.
>
>Er? What about...
>
>
>
>... Stark's death?


But that wasn't the _end_.

And yes, Ned died, but given Robb's successes, both political and military,
it was hardly a crushing defeat. Indeed, the events surrounding Ned's death
seem to have hurt the Lamnisters, rather than helped them.

>Personally, I thought the book moved along at a nice pace -- faster than
>Jordan, certainly.

I didn't think it moved slowly; it just hit about the only reasonable place
for a conclusion, and then went on for a few more chapters. After Ned died,
I figured that chapter was the end. And then I read another chapter, which
sounded like the end. This happened a few more times. I might even buy the
next book in hardcover, but I'm not expecting a conclusion of any sort until
the end of book three.

Richard M. Boye'

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

Dave Rothgery wrote:
>
> Michael Kozlowski wrote in message <69dfda$g...@spool.cs.wisc.edu>...
> >In article <69bqlq$hfv$1...@bigboote.WPI.EDU>,
> >Dave Rothgery <dave...@wpi.edu> wrote:
> >
> >[A Game of Thrones]
> >
> >>It reads like the first third of a 2500+ page book, not one book.
> >>Even Lord of Chaos had something of a climax and conclusion. But
> >>there wasn't even a token death of a Minion of the Evil Overlord, or
> >>a crushing defeat that Our Heroes barely survive.
> >
> >Er? What about...
> >
> >
> >
> >... Stark's death?
>
> But that wasn't the _end_.
>
> And yes, Ned died, but given Robb's successes, both political and military,
> it was hardly a crushing defeat. Indeed, the events surrounding Ned's death
> seem to have hurt the Lamnisters, rather than helped them.
>
> >Personally, I thought the book moved along at a nice pace -- faster than
> >Jordan, certainly.
>
> I didn't think it moved slowly; it just hit about the only reasonable place
> for a conclusion, and then went on for a few more chapters. After Ned died,
> I figured that chapter was the end. And then I read another chapter, which
> sounded like the end. This happened a few more times.

It's sorta because he had a large cast of wildly dispersed characters
and each little cluster of them had to have their own little denuement.

The real kicker was the scene with Daenerhys(sp?) and her 'offspring.'

I am curious what the deal with Arya was too. But the only scene I
really want to see happen in the series is for Catelyn Stark to
bitch-slap Cersei Lannister nine ways from thursday. That's all I ask.

However, if anything, judging from the appendix of Houses at the end,
and the sample portion of CoK, the series will only get increasingly
more complex.

> I might even buy the
> next book in hardcover, but I'm not expecting a conclusion of any sort until
> the end of book three.

Well, then you'd still be off. _A Song of Fire and Ice_ is expected to
be a tetralogy.

I'm guessing Martin is thinking in terms of _one_ huge book, broken up
into four volumes for publishing convenience.

--
Richard M. Boye' * wa...@webspan.net

http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/
"Strong as a gorilla, yet soft
and pliable like a nerf ball."

Dave Rothgery

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <34BA76...@webspan.net>...
>Dave Rothgery wrote:
>> [Problems with the conclusion of A Game of Thrones]


A bit of spoiler space, probably useless.

>> I didn't think it moved slowly; it just hit about the only reasonable
place
>> for a conclusion, and then went on for a few more chapters. After Ned
died,
>> I figured that chapter was the end. And then I read another chapter,
which
>> sounded like the end. This happened a few more times.
>
>It's sorta because he had a large cast of wildly dispersed characters
>and each little cluster of them had to have their own little denuement.
>
>The real kicker was the scene with Daenerhys(sp?) and her 'offspring.'

Dany's dragons may have some interesting effects, though it doesn't change
the general outline of what was expected within a few chapters of the
first -- a civil war in the Seven Kingdoms, a foreign invasion with a
Targaryen at its head, and something, though who knows what, coming south
from north of the Wall.

>I am curious what the deal with Arya was too.

YM wrt to her capture by the man of the Night's Watch?
For some reason I'd been expecting her to free Sansa, but I get the feeling
the next book will start with her in the custody of the Lannisters.

>But the only scene I
>really want to see happen in the series is for Catelyn Stark to
>bitch-slap Cersei Lannister nine ways from thursday. That's all I ask.

Although not quite as high on my 'scenes I'd like to see' list as the same,
replacing (obRJ) Catelyn with Nynaeve and Cersei with Moghedien, that one
will be fun to see.

What I'd like to know is how a pampered 13-year old can possibly be the
vicious brat the Joffrey Lannister is. Or how he can manage to override his
mother's wishes consistently. My brothers and I couldn't manage that when
we were 13.

>However, if anything, judging from the appendix of Houses at the end,
>and the sample portion of CoK, the series will only get increasingly
>more complex.

Well, there are only three major groups in play and described to a
reasonable extent right now -- the Starks, the Lannisters, and Dany's bunch.

>Well, then you'd still be off. _A Song of Fire and Ice_ is expected to
>be a tetralogy.

Ack! Four books before a conclusion?!?! I've only had to wait for one of
RJ's (I read all six just between just before and just after LoC came out in
hardcover), and he does better endings.

>I'm guessing Martin is thinking in terms of _one_ huge book, broken up
>into four volumes for publishing convenience.

That's the idea I got, too. Which is why I really don't expect a solid
ending until the last one.

Richard M. Boye'

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

Dave Rothgery wrote:
>
> Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <34BA76...@webspan.net>...
> >Dave Rothgery wrote:
> >> [Problems with the conclusion of A Game of Thrones]
>
>a bit of spoiler space, probably useless.

Probably, but what der hell.



> >> I didn't think it moved slowly; it just hit about the only reasonable place
> >> for a conclusion, and then went on for a few more chapters. After Ned died,
> >> I figured that chapter was the end. And then I read another chapter, which
> >> sounded like the end. This happened a few more times.
> >
> >It's sorta because he had a large cast of wildly dispersed characters
> >and each little cluster of them had to have their own little denuement.
> >
> >The real kicker was the scene with Daenerhys(sp?) and her 'offspring.'
>
> Dany's dragons may have some interesting effects, though it doesn't change
> the general outline of what was expected within a few chapters of the
> first -- a civil war in the Seven Kingdoms, a foreign invasion with a
> Targaryen at its head, and something, though who knows what, coming south
> from north of the Wall.

Well, being the title of the series is a "Song of Fire and Ice" I'm
assuming either the Seven Kingdoms will get swacked with the a double
whammy of those....things swarming over the wall, and the invasion of
Dothraki Hordes led by Daenerhys and her kinder _or_ Robb(or some other
young male figure) will marry Daenerhys and _together_ with her Dothraki
and her dragons as well as his Seven Kingdommers will toss
those....things back over the wall.

Aside: "Targaryen." 'Taragon' is the Greek word for 'dragon'.


> >I am curious what the deal with Arya was too.
>
> YM wrt to her capture by the man of the Night's Watch?

Ja.

> For some reason I'd been expecting her to free Sansa, but I get the feeling
> the next book will start with her in the custody of the Lannisters.

Who? Arya or Sansa? If you ask me, Sansa seems the candidate most like
to to win the "Most Likely to Emulate Lysa Stark" memorial award.

Arya on the other and will end up being a pretty groovy lady.

> >But the only scene I
> >really want to see happen in the series is for Catelyn Stark to
> >bitch-slap Cersei Lannister nine ways from thursday. That's all I ask.
>
> Although not quite as high on my 'scenes I'd like to see' list as the same,
> replacing (obRJ) Catelyn with Nynaeve and Cersei with Moghedien, that one
> will be fun to see.

That one too. As soon as we met the queen named 'Cersei' I instantly
knew not to trust her.

Aside: the cover art for CoK looks very impressive.


> What I'd like to know is how a pampered 13-year old can possibly be the
> vicious brat the Joffrey Lannister is. Or how he can manage to override his
> mother's wishes consistently. My brothers and I couldn't manage that when
> we were 13.

Well, did your mother need you to control the throne? Besides Cersei
Lannister is a vain and self-centered woman, and only sees her children
as extensions of her (and Jaime's...yuck!) perfection. She just can't
deal when one of them manifests a will of his own. Besides, Joffrey
seems to be a terror, which I somehow doubt you were, and he's got a
bunch of armed goons.

> >However, if anything, judging from the appendix of Houses at the end,
> >and the sample portion of CoK, the series will only get increasingly
> >more complex.
>
> Well, there are only three major groups in play and described to a
> reasonable extent right now -- the Starks, the Lannisters, and Dany's bunch.

Well, the sampler introduced us to the family squabbles of the Greyjoys
(Theon's sister, Asha?, seeming to be in favor with their father for the
rulership of the Iron Islands), then there was all the references to
Robert Baratheon's brother marrying the daughter of the familt whose
name I cannot recall now, ya know the ones with the floral heraldry.
That family is too well describe and catloged not to het invloved
somehow, same as the Martells. We have the whole family losted, yet the
made no apprearance at all in GoT.

Then you have Catelyn's fat stupid sister, Lysa, squatting in the Vale.
_That_ situation cannot be go unresolved either.

> >Well, then you'd still be off. _A Song of Fire and Ice_ is expected to
> >be a tetralogy.
>
> Ack! Four books before a conclusion?!?! I've only had to wait for one of
> RJ's (I read all six just between just before and just after LoC came out in
> hardcover), and he does better endings.

Usually.

The ending of of CoS wasn't too nifty, IMHO.

Noell Milota

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...

>On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:17 GMT, christia...@hedengren.fi
>(Christian R. Conrad) wrote:
>
>>Rather fittingly for someone whose very name is a Merkin joke, he is
>
>Does this man _know _ what merkin means? I think not.

Huh?

Apparently _I_ don't know what Merkin means. I always assumed it was
slang for American, and in that context, what he said makes perfect
sense. What are _you_ referring to?


--
Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com>


Noell Milota

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

David Loewe, Jr. wrote in message
<34bbfec5...@news.inlink.com>...
>>i believe it has something to do with pubic hair.
>
>Think of a toupee for your pubic mound.

Geeez! Am I _that_ naive, or are you guys trolling me?

--
Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com>


Dave Rothgery

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Jan 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/12/98
to

Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <34BAD4...@webspan.net>...


>Dave Rothgery wrote:
>>
>> Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <34BA76...@webspan.net>...
>> >Dave Rothgery wrote:
>> >> [Problems with the conclusion of A Game of Thrones]
>>
>>a bit of spoiler space, probably useless.
>
>Probably, but what der hell.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>> >The real kicker was the scene with Daenerhys(sp?) and her
>> > 'offspring.'
>>
>> Dany's dragons may have some interesting effects, though it
>> doesn't change the general outline of what was expected within
>> a few chapters of the first -- a civil war in the Seven Kingdoms,
>> a foreign invasion with a Targaryen at its head, and something,
>> though who knows what, coming south from north of the Wall.
>
>Well, being the title of the series is a "Song of Fire and Ice" I'm
>assuming either the Seven Kingdoms will get swacked with the a double
>whammy of those....things swarming over the wall, and the invasion of
>Dothraki Hordes led by Daenerhys and her kinder _or_ Robb(or some other
>young male figure) will marry Daenerhys

Given Robb's sense of honor, I believe every one of the Late Lord Fey's
daughters under the age of 30 would have to be dead before he'd even
consider the idea, no matter how urgent the situation.

For some reason, though, I can't help but think Dany's forces will not have
any sympathy at all for the people of the Seven Kingdoms, especially
considering her chief advisor's attitude towrad house Stark (who, by virtue
of containing most of Our Heroes, are the inevitable winners in the civil
war) and their honor.

>and _together_ with her Dothraki
>and her dragons as well as his Seven Kingdommers will toss
>those....things back over the wall.

We'll see. By the end, though, I was pretty sure that Robb was supposed to
be the Hero of this story, and that kind of ending leaves little for him to
do on the heroic side.

>> >I am curious what the deal with Arya was too.
>>
>> YM wrt to her capture by the man of the Night's Watch?
>
>Ja.
>
>> For some reason I'd been expecting her to free Sansa, but I get the
feeling
>> the next book will start with her in the custody of the Lannisters.
>
>Who? Arya or Sansa? If you ask me, Sansa seems the candidate most like
>to to win the "Most Likely to Emulate Lysa Stark" memorial award.


Arya. Sansa was already a Lannister prisoner, and she's certainly incapable
of escaping on her own.

>> >But the only scene I
>> >really want to see happen in the series is for Catelyn Stark to
>> >bitch-slap Cersei Lannister nine ways from thursday. That's all I ask.
>>
>> Although not quite as high on my 'scenes I'd like to see' list as the
same,
>> replacing (obRJ) Catelyn with Nynaeve and Cersei with Moghedien, that one
>> will be fun to see.
>
>That one too. As soon as we met the queen named 'Cersei' I instantly
>knew not to trust her.


You had to meet her first?

>Aside: the cover art for CoK looks very impressive.


Well, you're the artist.

>> What I'd like to know is how a pampered 13-year old can possibly
>> be the vicious brat the Joffrey Lannister is. Or how he can manage
>> to override his mother's wishes consistently. My brothers and I
>> couldn't manage that when we were 13.
>
>Well, did your mother need you to control the throne? Besides Cersei
>Lannister is a vain and self-centered woman, and only sees her children
>as extensions of her (and Jaime's...yuck!) perfection.

Speaking of which, doesn't it seem odd that none of the Targaryens, nor any
of Cersei and Jaime's children, seem to have shown the physical annomallys
that are rather more common in children of incest? I know that this happens
less than is popularly believed, but over the course of a few hundred years
within the same family, I'd think something bad is bound to happen. But
then, I'm no geneticist.

Another thing -- sooner or later, the Lannister kids are going to find out
who their father really is. Too many know to keep them from ever learning
the truth. So what happens then -- probably denial, but what else?

>She just can't
>deal when one of them manifests a will of his own. Besides, Joffrey
>seems to be a terror, which I somehow doubt you were, and he's got a
>bunch of armed goons.

But why would the armed goons listen to him, rather than her? Any House
Lannister is likely to employ probably aren't the type to serve him just
because he is their King -- in fact she, Jaime, and her father likely chose
them.

>> >However, if anything, judging from the appendix of Houses at the end,
>> >and the sample portion of CoK, the series will only get increasingly
>> >more complex.
>>
>> Well, there are only three major groups in play and described
>> to a reasonable extent right now -- the Starks, the Lannisters,
>> and Dany's bunch.
>
>Well, the sampler introduced us to the family squabbles of the Greyjoys
>(Theon's sister, Asha?, seeming to be in favor with their father for the
>rulership of the Iron Islands), then there was all the references to
>Robert Baratheon's brother marrying the daughter of the familt whose
>name I cannot recall now, ya know the ones with the floral heraldry.

<Gets book>
Tyrell.

>That family is too well describe and catloged not to het invloved
>somehow, same as the Martells. We have the whole family losted, yet the
>made no apprearance at all in GoT.

Ack! Who does he think he is, creating all these elaborate geneologies --
RJ or Melanie Rawn (I guess the answer to that depends on how many people
die)?

>Then you have Catelyn's fat stupid sister, Lysa, squatting in the Vale.
>_That_ situation cannot be go unresolved either.

Though that one's a gimmee. Someone will take the so-called impregnable
castle, killing Lysa. Somehow the kid will get away, and away from his
mother (after a respectable grieving period), will turn out well enough to
rule from the Eyre by the end of the books.

>> >Well, then you'd still be off. _A Song of Fire and Ice_ is expected to
>> >be a tetralogy.
>>
>> Ack! Four books before a conclusion?!?! I've only had to wait for one of
>> RJ's (I read all six just between just before and just after LoC came out
in
>> hardcover), and he does better endings.
>
>Usually.
>

>The ending of CoS wasn't too nifty, IMHO.

Agreed, the showdown with Sammael was lacking.

But the fight for the Bowl was pretty nifty, the only annoyance being two
piddling little BA holding a shield on Nynaeve. Fortunately, RJ explained
that one -- and he even killed an important minor character.

kate brown

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:17 GMT, christia...@hedengren.fi
(Christian R. Conrad) wrote:


>Rather fittingly for someone whose very name is a Merkin joke, he is


Does this man _know _ what merkin means? I think not.


Kate
take time out to reply


LdyKaurya

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

Michael Kozlowski, this is your quote:
>m...@cs.wisc.edu

You go to a college in Wisconsin? Madison?


Beth McAdams
"Pardon me while I stick my ovular depositor down your throat and lay eggs in
your chest, but I'm not an alien!" Tom Servo, MST3K:TM


Kate Nepveu

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
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"Richard M. Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote:
>Dave Rothgery wrote:

Here there be spoilers for _A Game of Thrones_.

>> I didn't think it moved slowly; it just hit about the only reasonable place
>> for a conclusion, and then went on for a few more chapters. After Ned died,
>> I figured that chapter was the end. And then I read another chapter, which
>> sounded like the end. This happened a few more times.

>It's sorta because he had a large cast of wildly dispersed characters
>and each little cluster of them had to have their own little denuement.

>The real kicker was the scene with Daenerhys(sp?) and her 'offspring.'

That was pretty cool. I wasn't hugely impressed by the book, but I
have to say that Martin does know how to do endings of a serial
novel...
--
Kate http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/index.html

"I wish that wishes were indeed horses, and that therefore, being
beggars, we could ride."
--John Barnes, _One for the Morning Glory_

Jon Travaglia

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

Ask Robert Pfeifer <mzy...@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> for blue key:

>On 11 Jan 1998, LdyKaurya wrote:

>}I can say (maybe not proudly) that I have tasted grass. And it's not too bad,
>}from what I remember.
>
>Doesn't taste of all that much. Needs a teabag too.

From what I recall of my experiments in grass tasting it was pretty
revolting.

Didn't stop me from trying it again though.

--
Jon Travaglia (E-mail address ROT-13d)

"So, is Silicon Heaven the same heaven as humans go to?"
"Don't be silly sir! Humans don't go to heaven, that's just
something they made up to stop you all from going nuts!"

wred...@usyd.edu.au

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
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Noell Milota wrote:
>
> kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...
> >On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:17 GMT, christia...@hedengren.fi
> >(Christian R. Conrad) wrote:
> >
> >>Rather fittingly for someone whose very name is a Merkin joke, he is
> >
> >Does this man _know _ what merkin means? I think not.
>
> Huh?
>
> Apparently _I_ don't know what Merkin means. I always assumed it was
> slang for American, and in that context, what he said makes perfect
> sense. What are _you_ referring to?
>
> --
> Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com>

David Loewe, Jr.

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:25:07 +1100, wred...@usyd.edu.au wrote:

>Noell Milota wrote:

>> kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...
>> >On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:17 GMT, christia...@hedengren.fi
>> >(Christian R. Conrad) wrote:

>> >>Rather fittingly for someone whose very name is a Merkin joke, he is

>> >Does this man _know _ what merkin means? I think not.

>> Huh?

>> Apparently _I_ don't know what Merkin means. I always assumed it was
>> slang for American, and in that context, what he said makes perfect
>> sense. What are _you_ referring to?

>i believe it has something to do with pubic hair.

Think of a toupee for your pubic mound.
--

"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a
fool following it."
Laurence van Cott Niven

Evan P Langlinais

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
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With a slow, stroking motion LdyKaurya (ldyk...@aol.com) proudly ejaculated:

Funny how that att. line is more fitting some times than others.

> Beth McAdams
> "Pardon me while I stick my ovular depositor down your throat and lay eggs in

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


> your chest, but I'm not an alien!" Tom Servo, MST3K:TM

Minor Nit to pick, but shouldn't that be "Ovipositor?" As opposed to
"ovular depositor," which I can only figure would be an egg donor, or
someone with a _really_ unusually shaped...Nevermind.

--
| | |\ | | | ) Theudegisklos "Skwid" Sweinbrothar of the order Teuthoidia
|/| |\ |/ | |X| ( SKWID, Vulture V4 pilot ( The Humblest Mollusc
| | | | | | | ) Evan "Skwid" Langlinais ) on the Net
"This is stupid, and as a pseudo-intellectual, that offends me."

Doc Hogan

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
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Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
<69emss$cvq$1...@newsfep1.sprintmail.com>...


> kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...

> Apparently _I_ don't know what Merkin means. I always assumed it was
> slang for American, and in that context, what he said makes perfect
> sense. What are _you_ referring to?


You're absolutely right. This comes from one of Thom Merrilins stories
about a couple of people from Merk (assumed to mean America) and Mosk
(assumed to mean Moscow) throwing lances of fire allthe way across the
globe (nukes)

--
Doc Hogan
Funked Up! Productions

A dirty book is rarely dusty.


David Loewe, Jr.

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:13:12 -0800, "Noell Milota"
<no...@sprintmail.com> wrote:

>David Loewe, Jr. wrote in message
><34bbfec5...@news.inlink.com>...

>>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:25:07 +1100, wred...@usyd.edu.au wrote:
>>>Noell Milota wrote:

>>>> kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...

>>>> >On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:17 GMT, christia...@hedengren.fi
>>>> >(Christian R. Conrad) wrote:

>>>> >>Rather fittingly for someone whose very name is a Merkin joke,
>>>> >>he is

>>>> >Does this man _know _ what merkin means? I think not.

>>>> Huh?

>>>> Apparently _I_ don't know what Merkin means. I always assumed


>>>> it was slang for American, and in that context, what he said makes
>>>> perfect sense. What are _you_ referring to?

>>>i believe it has something to do with pubic hair.

>>Think of a toupee for your pubic mound.

>Geeez! Am I _that_ naive, or are you guys trolling me?

You must be _that_ naive, because I am not _currently_ trolling you
and a merkin is indeed 'fake pubic hair' used above one's genitalia.

Noell Milota

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

David Loewe, Jr. wrote in message
<34c01bb5...@news.inlink.com>...


Huh. That's ... uh ... interesting. You learn something new
everyday.

Though your emphasis on "currently" frightens me! ;)


--
Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com>


kate brown

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
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On 13 Jan 1998 06:30:43 GMT, "Doc Hogan" <doch...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
><69emss$cvq$1...@newsfep1.sprintmail.com>...

>> kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...

>> Apparently _I_ don't know what Merkin means. I always assumed it was
>> slang for American, and in that context, what he said makes perfect
>> sense. What are _you_ referring to?
>
>

>You're absolutely right. This comes from one of Thom Merrilins stories
>about a couple of people from Merk (assumed to mean America) and Mosk
>(assumed to mean Moscow) throwing lances of fire allthe way across the
>globe (nukes)
>
>--


darling sweetie merkin-brained Doc, you might have learnt how to
format your emails but you certainly haven't learnt how to attribute.
Go away and do better.


>Funked Up! Productions

Indeed


Kate B

wolf...@game-master.com

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

Dave Rothgery wrote:
>
> Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <34BAD4...@webspan.net>...
> >Dave Rothgery wrote:
> >>
> >> Richard M. Boye' wrote in message <34BA76...@webspan.net>...
> >> >Dave Rothgery wrote:

> >and _together_ with her Dothraki
> >and her dragons as well as his Seven Kingdommers will toss
> >those....things back over the wall.
>
> We'll see. By the end, though, I was pretty sure that Robb was supposed to
> be the Hero of this story, and that kind of ending leaves little for him to
> do on the heroic side.

Personnaly I think the Hero of the Tale will be Jon Snow, Eddard's
bastard son with the nifty albino Direwolf, Ghost.

> >The ending of CoS wasn't too nifty, IMHO.
>
> Agreed, the showdown with Sammael was lacking.
>
> But the fight for the Bowl was pretty nifty, the only annoyance being two
> piddling little BA holding a shield on Nynaeve. Fortunately, RJ explained
> that one -- and he even killed an important minor character.

What did RJ say about that and what minor character are you talking
about?

Christian R. Conrad

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98
to

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:47:24 GMT,
ka...@yell.almac.time.co.uk. (kate brown) said:

> On 13 Jan 1998 06:30:43 GMT, "Doc Hogan" <doch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Noell Milota <no...@sprintmail.com> wrote in article
> ><69emss$cvq$1...@newsfep1.sprintmail.com>...
> >> kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>...

That's correct -- Noell (or more probably, her newsreader) _did_ write
"kate brown wrote in message <34baaf6f...@news.almac.co.uk>..." !

Since there are three '>'s before it, just as with the rest of Noell's
text, there is really no big risk we'd think Kate wrote Noell's post.

So, it was an _unnecessary_ attribution (since all of Kate's text was
snipped) -- but that, IMAO at least, is far better than too few of them!

[ S N I P contents ]

> darling sweetie merkin-brained Doc, you might have learnt how to
> format your emails but you certainly haven't learnt how to attribute.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, on the other hand, maybe Doc knows the
difference between a newspost and an e-mail, eh...?


> Go away and do better.

Be careful with phrases like that, unless you're a real expert yourself.
(Not that I'm one either; I hasten to add lest anyone think I'm suddenly
inflicted with a virtually lethal infection of hubris...)


> >Funked Up! Productions

> Indeed

In-*very*-deed, indeed... You guys partners in that company? :-)


> Kate B
> take time out to reply

There, I did. Happy?

Sarah Coit

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Jan 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/13/98