Hints of a gay relationshp between Elayne and Aviendha?
Ender wiggan
When I was re-reading ACOS in preparation for POD to arrive I began to
suspect that there was a hint of a Lesbian relationship between Elayne
and Aviendha. This is based on two passages that I stupidly failed to
mark. The first was from ACOS and taken from a chapter written from
Elayne's point of view. She says something like
"That other greater secret that was only whispered between them when the
night was at its darkest."
Actually this might be evidence for the "is Aviendha pregnant"
suggestion?
Also in the POD the is a line about two AS being Pillow mates so there
obviously a recognition of H-sexuality in Randland.
If anybody could put chapters or page numbers to the quotes I would be
greatful
Be gentle this is my first ever posting!
Ender Wiggan
Ender wiggan
Ender wiggan
Ender wiggan
Ender wiggan
EmilieTN
>night was at its darkest."
Could be their love for Rand, but I found this to be indicitave of
experimentation (ahem). I don't think Aviendha could be pregnant for several
reasons, (primarily because it would complicate the book too much) but mostly
because, when you look at the time frame, we would have certainly known by the
middle of PoD. Having had a child, I can tell you that the signs are apparent
at two weeks of pregnancy--enlarged, sore breasts; illness; dizziness...need I
continue?
Emilie L.
jl...@my-dejanews.com
>
> When I was re-reading ACOS in preparation for POD to arrive I began to
> suspect that there was a hint of a Lesbian relationship between Elayne
> and Aviendha. This is based on two passages that I stupidly failed to
> mark. The first was from ACOS and taken from a chapter written from
> Elayne's point of view. She says something like
> "That other greater secret that was only whispered between them when the
> night was at its darkest."
>
> Actually this might be evidence for the "is Aviendha pregnant"
> suggestion?
>
> Also in the POD the is a line about two AS being Pillow mates so there
> obviously a recognition of H-sexuality in Randland.
>
> If anybody could put chapters or page numbers to the quotes I would be
> greatful
>
> Be gentle this is my first ever posting!
>
> Ender Wiggan
>
And what a great topic you picked for your first post.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Philip Alan Thomann
In article <36541C80...@maxwel.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Ender wiggan <mas...@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> writes:
|> Very small Spoilers (I think)
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|> When I was re-reading ACOS in preparation for POD to arrive I began to
|> suspect that there was a hint of a Lesbian relationship between Elayne
|> and Aviendha. This is based on two passages that I stupidly failed to
|> mark. The first was from ACOS and taken from a chapter written from
|> Elayne's point of view. She says something like
|> "That other greater secret that was only whispered between them when the
|> night was at its darkest."
|>
|> Actually this might be evidence for the "is Aviendha pregnant"
|> suggestion?
|>
|> Also in the POD the is a line about two AS being Pillow mates so there
|> obviously a recognition of H-sexuality in Randland.
|>
|> If anybody could put chapters or page numbers to the quotes I would be
|> greatful
|>
|> Be gentle this is my first ever posting!
|>
|> Ender Wiggan
|>
platonicly.
--
Philip Thomann
Donal K. Fellows
In article <36541C80...@maxwel.ph.kcl.ac.uk>,
Ender wiggan <mas...@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
> Be gentle this is my first ever posting!
Correction, this was your first four postings. Be careful or you
might use up your quota without realising it.
> Very small Spoilers (I think)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> When I was re-reading ACOS in preparation for POD to arrive I began to
> suspect that there was a hint of a Lesbian relationship between Elayne
> and Aviendha. This is based on two passages that I stupidly failed to
> mark. The first was from ACOS and taken from a chapter written from
> Elayne's point of view. She says something like
[...]
Oh no! Not this discussion. Again.
Why not bring in the Right To Bear Arms, M*rm*ns and School Fees[1]
and make this into the largest flamewar possible!
Donal.
[1: How *do* you brandish a M*rm*n without looking very stupid anyway? ]
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ fell...@cs.man.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K. +44-161-275-6137
--
If you staple a penguin to the head of a gnu, the result won't catch herring...
Alex Paradi
EmilieTN wrote:
> >"That other greater secret that was only whispered between them when the
> >night was at its darkest."
>
> Could be their love for Rand, but I found this to be indicitave of
> experimentation (ahem). I don't think Aviendha could be pregnant for several
> reasons, (primarily because it would complicate the book too much) but mostly
> because, when you look at the time frame, we would have certainly known by the
> middle of PoD. Having had a child, I can tell you that the signs are apparent
> at two weeks of pregnancy--enlarged, sore breasts; illness; dizziness...need I
> continue?
> Emilie L.
There have been cases to young women having children and not even knowing they
were pregnant. They continued to have a period (though somewhat erratic) and they
were just the type of person that didn't show. Albiet in this case the girl was a
really dumb teenager, but still...
Alex Paradi
Jed Wyrick
: Reordered slightly
: In article <36541C80...@maxwel.ph.kcl.ac.uk>,
: Ender wiggan <mas...@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
:> Be gentle this is my first ever posting!
: Correction, this was your first four postings. Be careful or you
: might use up your quota without realising it.
:> Very small Spoilers (I think)
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:
:> When I was re-reading ACOS in preparation for POD to arrive I began to
:> suspect that there was a hint of a Lesbian relationship between Elayne
:> and Aviendha. This is based on two passages that I stupidly failed to
:> mark. The first was from ACOS and taken from a chapter written from
:> Elayne's point of view. She says something like
: [...]
: Oh no! Not this discussion. Again.
: Why not bring in the Right To Bear Arms, M*rm*ns and School Fees[1]
: and make this into the largest flamewar possible!
Wait a minute. The problem with mormon threads et al. is that mormons get
offended. I haven't heard any gay people get offended if you ask about
what the meaning of "pillow friend" is, so they are apples and oranges.
Even if they both start flame wars. But I don't care about that...If
*straight* people get offended because you mess with their book characters
they hardly have the right to be outraged...they can merely point out that
a misreading was committed. Which I suppose is an outrage in its own
right. Like Mat and Loial, for instance <duck>. But hey, I never agreed
with that one either!
Jed
EmilieTN
>they
>were pregnant. They continued to have a period (though somewhat erratic) and
>they
>were just the type of person that didn't show.
This is true. There have been a few cases where the woman did not know she was
pregnant, went to the emergency room thinking appendicitis. These women tend
to be a)few, and b) obese. Then there is another category teenagers or young
women who do not admit they are pregnant or wish it would go away. These are
the ones we hear about on the news "strangled her baby at prom and then went
dancing."
What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women for whom it is not
obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a bright
girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
Emilie L.
onei...@my-dejanews.com
Ender wiggan <mas...@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Also in the POD the is a line about two AS being Pillow mates so there
> obviously a recognition of H-sexuality in Randland.
>
> If anybody could put chapters or page numbers to the quotes I would be
> greatful
>
Steve G.
--
"'Til money is gone, 'til assets are gone, into the audit with teeth bared, to
spit in the IRS' eye
Wendy Natividad
EmilieTN wrote in message <19981119164442...@ng64.aol.com>...
Please don't take this post to show that I DO think Aveindha's pregnant...
but when you
mention "young women who do not admit they are pregnant or wish it would go
away"...
I think Avi would definitely fit that description! Just an observation...
Wendy
Trina Dykstra
} >There have been cases to young women having children and not even knowing
} >they
} >were pregnant. They continued to have a period (though somewhat erratic) and
} >they
} >were just the type of person that didn't show.
[women not realising they're pregnant]
} What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women for whom it is not
} obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a bright
} girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
We cannot forget that Aviendha has grown up wanting and training to be
a Maiden of the Spear. Therefore she has not had much, if any, of the
lessons in "womanhood" that most young girls receive from the mothers.
If her knowledge in the field of men is any indication, I would say
that Aviendha hasn't exactly been well-trained for the life of woman.
Which of course includes pregnancy and all the signs that go with it.
--
Trina Dykstra tcdy...@hotmail.com
"Love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've
never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling
lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of
a monorail"
A N Yanez
> Trina Dykstra (t_dy...@usa.net) wrote:
> : On 19 Nov 1998 21:44:42 GMT, emil...@aol.com (EmilieTN) wrote:
>
> : [women not realising they're pregnant]
>
> : } What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women for whom it is not
> : } obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a bright
> : } girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
>
> : We cannot forget that Aviendha has grown up wanting and training to be
> : a Maiden of the Spear. Therefore she has not had much, if any, of the
> : lessons in "womanhood" that most young girls receive from the mothers.
> : If her knowledge in the field of men is any indication, I would say
> : that Aviendha hasn't exactly been well-trained for the life of woman.
> : Which of course includes pregnancy and all the signs that go with it.
ARGH! I *hate* this argument; it's not well thought out; it does NOT
analyze the available evidence at all. YES, Aviendha always wanted to be
a Maiden. HOWEVER, she still grew up in a family with a mother and (at
least one other sister). Given what we know of Aiel culture--the openess
about sex and sexuality--it is highly likely that at the very least, she
knows that pregnancy is a potential outcome of sex. Now, we know that
Maidens are hardly celibate--we see several instances of this. Indeed,
while *marriage* is prohibited to a Maiden (unless she gives up the
spear), sex and lovers are not. We know that Maidens have them and do
indeed get pregnant from time to time (we know from ther numerous
references about having to give those children up in an elaborate way to
ensure no one knows who the child's biological mother is). It is rather
unlikely that the Maidens don't know *anything* about sex, pregnancy, and
prevention. Likely, those instances are "accidents" rather than the usual
state of affairs, at it were. Afterall, it would be rather inconvenient
if Maidens were getting pregnant left and right. The Maidens have full
access to the Wise Ones and can always ask for advice on such matters.
Moreover, it is highly unlikely that the Wise Ones would forego giving
such advice. While Aviendha might be inexperienced in this realm, she's
by no means stupid. Please, people, give the woman some credit. If it
turns out that she's pregnant (which I doubt), I, for one, am going to
want a LOT of explanation and plausible groundwork laid down first.
> Of course she *has* been trained as a living weapon, which means she
> doesn't have any extraneous body fat that might occlude a pregnancy. If
> she's preggers she shouuld be showing by now, and I don't beleive we've
> heard Avi say, "Tell me, near-sister--this decadent, soft-wetlander,
> slinky gown of rare and precious silk...does it make me look fat?"
Amen.
Alberto
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"One should always be a little improbable." --Oscar Wilde
Rebel Yell
>
> In article <36541BBF...@dcs.kcl.ac.uk>,
> Ender wiggan <mas...@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Very small Spoilers (I think)
>
> >
> > When I was re-reading ACOS in preparation for POD to arrive I began to
> > suspect that there was a hint of a Lesbian relationship between Elayne
> > and Aviendha. This is based on two passages that I stupidly failed to
> > mark. The first was from ACOS and taken from a chapter written from
> > Elayne's point of view. She says something like
> > night was at its darkest."
> >
> > suggestion?
> >
> > obviously a recognition of H-sexuality in Randland.
> >
> > If anybody could put chapters or page numbers to the quotes I would be
> > greatful
> >
> >
> >
>
> And what a great topic you picked for your first post.
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
I think the great secret is that they are discussing the possibilities
for the 2 of them and min to share Rand. This idea may be aceptable to
Avi but the POV here is Elayne's and Andorans do not share husbands so
the idea would be a great secret as far as the future (or present) Queen
of Andor is concerned.
Tina Hall
The topic was:
_Re: Hints of a gay relationshp between Elayne and Aviendha?_
Answering: emil...@aol.com (EmilieTN)
e> >There have been cases to young women having children and not even
e> >knowing they
e> >were pregnant. They continued to have a period (though somewhat
e> >erratic) and they
e> >were just the type of person that didn't show.
e>
e> This is true. There have been a few cases where the woman did not
e> know she was pregnant, went to the emergency room thinking
e> appendicitis. These women tend to be a)few, and b) obese. Then
e> there is another category teenagers or young women who do not admit
e> they are pregnant or wish it would go away. These are the ones we
e> hear about on the news "strangled her baby at prom and then went
There is also the case (of a very good friend of mine), of the 3rd
pregnancy not giving any signs whatsoever until about the 4th to 5th
month.
Late last summer, first she was (not all that seriously) saying, how nice
it would be to have another baby[1], and a week or two later she started
suspecting she already was, went to the doctor and was told she is already
4 to 5 months pregnant. Now, that was really a surprise. (As was the
birth, but that's another story. The little boy is just in almost all
things a bit unusual/surprising. ;) )
e> dancing." What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women
e> for whom it is not obvious to themselves that they are pregnant.
e> Aviendha seems to be a bright girl, and unlikely to make this
e> mistake...
Well, because of my friend, I am really doubtfull of this.
e> although you never know. Emilie L.
Yep. :)
[1] You could say, this was kind of a sign, but I don't believe this. Why
would be a story of a long time. Or in short, some friends, one just knows
very well. :)
Read You
Tina
Live is hard but unjust. (Me, afaik.)
Magnus Itland
>Why not bring in the Right To Bear Arms, M*rm*ns and School Fees[1]
>and make this into the largest flamewar possible!
>
>Donal.
>[1: How *do* you brandish a M*rm*n without looking very stupid anyway? ]
Not sure, but brandishing school vouchers would make up for it.
--
itl...@online.no Yes! The one and only Magnus Itland.
http://home.sol.no/~itlandm/
"Whine for peace! Snivel for justice!"
*bunnyTshens*
: On 19 Nov 1998 21:44:42 GMT, emil...@aol.com (EmilieTN) wrote:
: [women not realising they're pregnant]
: } What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women for whom it is not
: } obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a bright
: } girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
: We cannot forget that Aviendha has grown up wanting and training to be
: a Maiden of the Spear. Therefore she has not had much, if any, of the
: lessons in "womanhood" that most young girls receive from the mothers.
: If her knowledge in the field of men is any indication, I would say
: that Aviendha hasn't exactly been well-trained for the life of woman.
: Which of course includes pregnancy and all the signs that go with it.
Of course she *has* been trained as a living weapon, which means she
doesn't have any extraneous body fat that might occlude a pregnancy. If
she's preggers she shouuld be showing by now, and I don't beleive we've
heard Avi say, "Tell me, near-sister--this decadent, soft-wetlander,
slinky gown of rare and precious silk...does it make me look fat?"
--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
DannoFTW
one thing is clear to me. If Elayne and Aviendha turned out to have a gay
relationship, that would make for some DAMNED good reading!
-Eazy D
Friend of the Dark
Leader of the Detroit Circle of Darkfriends
Faithful vassel to Demandred
Ravinomaha
>for the 2 of them and min to share Rand. This idea may be aceptable to
>Avi but the POV here is Elayne's and Andorans do not share husbands so
>the idea would be a great secret as far as the future (or present) Queen
>of Andor is concerned.
>
>
>
>
Magnus Itland
> What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women for whom it is not
>obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a bright
>girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
Given her fantasies about killing Rand and herself, I'm not sure she
would like to discover a pregnancy until it was unmistakeable.
Gary Engel
In my Social Problems class, we just learned about the wonders of abortion.
It did include pictures. So, I thought this was a perfect time to bring up a
carefully worded question about the feasibility of Avi being pregnant and not
showing it.
Me: Would it be possible for a super athletic person, about 18 or 20, to be
4.5 or 5 months pregnant and not show it?
Mrs. C: Yes, I didn't show with my first until the 6th month and I didn't wear
maternity clothing until the 9th month.
Of course you must also note that Mrs. C. was a heavy smoker at the time and
her daughter is only about 5'3.
Draw your own conclusions. I think it's possible, but unlikely.
Nathan Engel
Mark_Erikson
Trina Dykstra wrote in message <3655d6f5...@news.mts.net>...
>} >they
>} >were pregnant. They continued to have a period (though somewhat
>} >they
>} >were just the type of person that didn't show.
>
>
not
>} obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a
bright
>} girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
>
>We cannot forget that Aviendha has grown up wanting and training to be
>a Maiden of the Spear. Therefore she has not had much, if any, of the
>lessons in "womanhood" that most young girls receive from the mothers.
>If her knowledge in the field of men is any indication, I would say
>that Aviendha hasn't exactly been well-trained for the life of woman.
>Which of course includes pregnancy and all the signs that go with it.
I'm sure someone has bought this up before, but what about Nynaeve's line 'I
fix you a tea to soothe your stomach, or any woman's troubles.' On page 55
of tPoD. What does everybody make of this?
-Mark Erikson
asha...@geocities.com
"You cannot tell a man he has the power to make the
earth shake, then expect him to walk small."
-Lord of Chaos, Robert Jordan
EmilieTN
>fix you a tea to soothe your stomach, or any woman's troubles.' On page 55
>of tPoD. What does everybody make of this?
>-Mark Erikson
I think she is talking about menstrual cramps, which everybody tiptoes around;
not morning sickness, which people tend to be much more direct about. Also, if
Nynaeve suspected Aviendha was pregnant, she wouldn't have been so calm and
matter-of-fact.
In my opinion, anyway.
Emilie L.
Ravinomaha
>I'm sure someone has bought this up before, but what about Nynaeve's line 'I
>fix you a tea to soothe your stomach, or any woman's troubles.' On page 55
>of tPoD. What does everybody make of this?
I thought Nyn was talking about menstrual cramps and other things that go with
"that time of the month".
EmilieTN
>4.5 or 5 months pregnant and not show it?
>Mrs. C: Yes, I didn't show with my first until the 6th month and I didn't
>wear
>maternity clothing until the 9th mo
I didn't show until I was about six months along, either. But "showing" is not
the only sign of pregnancy that someone would notice. Since Elayne is so close
to Avi, surely she would remark, "Gee, Avi, can't stand the smell of bacon?"
Pregnancy also places a strain on the bladder, one has to pee alot.
So, anyway, more food for thought.
Emilie L.
Philip Alan Thomann
In article <3655d6f5...@news.mts.net>, t_dy...@usa.net (Trina Dykstra) writes:
|> On 19 Nov 1998 21:44:42 GMT, emil...@aol.com (EmilieTN) wrote:
|>
|> } >There have been cases to young women having children and not even knowing
|> } >they
|> } >were pregnant. They continued to have a period (though somewhat erratic) and
|> } >they
|> } >were just the type of person that didn't show.
|>
|> [women not realising they're pregnant]
|>
|> } What I am getting at is that yes, ther are a few women for whom it is not
|> } obvious to themselves that they are pregnant. Aviendha seems to be a bright
|> } girl, and unlikely to make this mistake...although you never know.
|>
|> We cannot forget that Aviendha has grown up wanting and training to be
|> a Maiden of the Spear. Therefore she has not had much, if any, of the
|> lessons in "womanhood" that most young girls receive from the mothers.
|> If her knowledge in the field of men is any indication, I would say
|> that Aviendha hasn't exactly been well-trained for the life of woman.
|> Which of course includes pregnancy and all the signs that go with it.
|>
|>
|> Trina Dykstra tcdy...@hotmail.com
|> "Love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've
|> never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling
|> lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of
|> a monorail"
Ya know, she does have a fair bit of wise one training behind her. I
think basic family medical care is included.
--
Philip Thomann
Janet Cone
<asha...@geocities.com> wrote:
>I'm sure someone has bought this up before, but what about Nynaeve's line 'I
>fix you a tea to soothe your stomach, or any woman's troubles.' On page 55
>of tPoD. What does everybody make of this?
As a female type person when I read this line I made the assumption
Nyn was offering to make a tea to relieve period pain.
|\ _,,,---,,_ Janet (and Berelain) |
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Maggie
tale...
<snip>
> In my Social Problems class, we just learned about the wonders of abortion.
> It did include pictures. So, I thought this was a perfect time to bring up a
> carefully worded question about the feasibility of Avi being pregnant and not
> showing it.
>
> 4.5 or 5 months pregnant and not show it?
>
> Mrs. C: Yes, I didn't show with my first until the 6th month and I didn't wear
>
> Of course you must also note that Mrs. C. was a heavy smoker at the time and
> her daughter is only about 5'3.
Mrs. C's smoking habits and the present height of her daughter would
have nothing to do with when her pregnancy showed.
My mother showed at 7 months. She didn't smoke. I'm 5'4". Except
for the smoking bit, it's all genetics and physical fitness.
First pregnancies often *don't* show until fairly late...this is even
more likely when the mother is very fit. The muscles and ligaments
are not yet stretched out, and are therefore better able to support
the expanding uterus. With each subsequent pregnancy, however, the
mother will show earlier because the muscles will have been stretched.
> Draw your own conclusions. I think it's possible, but unlikely.
Enh. From experience: Possible and likely. I showed quite late,
with both of my sons. They weighed 8.5 and 8.25 pounds, respectively.
--
Maggie UIN 10248195
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1374/
"Love consists of one soul inhabiting two bodies." --Aristotle
Janet
>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:03:13 GMT, enge...@wctc.net told the following
>tale...
<snip>
>
>My mother showed at 7 months. She didn't smoke. I'm 5'4". Except
>for the smoking bit, it's all genetics and physical fitness.
>
>First pregnancies often *don't* show until fairly late...this is even
>more likely when the mother is very fit. The muscles and ligaments
>are not yet stretched out, and are therefore better able to support
>the expanding uterus. With each subsequent pregnancy, however, the
>mother will show earlier because the muscles will have been stretched.
>
>> Draw your own conclusions. I think it's possible, but unlikely.
>
>Enh. From experience: Possible and likely. I showed quite late,
>with both of my sons. They weighed 8.5 and 8.25 pounds, respectively.
>
Just another bit of data, most of the women that I work with tell me
that they didn't have any of the other symptoms either. Things like
morning sickness, etc that usually scream "she's pregnant!" There are
some changes that aren't really obvious right away. My body has started
changing in places that I wouldn't have noticed if my husband hadn't
pointed it out to me.
Avi does think something about "growing soft" like the wetlanders. She
has started losing strict control of her emotions (doesn't she almost
start crying in front of Elayne and co. in the first chapter?). If
she doesn't want to be pregnant, she could be ignoring everything she's
learned. Perhaps she's trying to convince herself that she's not
pregnant. As for Nyn wanting to give her something for "woman
troubles", maybe Nyn does know but is keeping it to herself until Avi
is ready to tell people. Maybe she's just being discreet.
I think that there are enough clues that she might be pregnant, but there
isn't anything conclusive to say that she is. If we make it through
one more month without her starting to show or at least realize what's
going on, I'll agree that she probably isn't pregnant. For now, I would
say there is a definite possibility of baby booties in her future.
Janet
--
Hearing all the horror stories and wonderful stories of being pregnant.
Tina Hall
The topic was:
_Re: TAN: Pregnancy (was: Re: Hints of a gay relationshp between...)_
enge...@wctc.net (Gary Engel) wrote:
GE> Tina Hall wrote:
GE> > Answering: emil...@aol.com (EmilieTN)
[snip]
GE> > e> This is true. There have been a few cases where the woman did
GE> > e> not know she was pregnant, went to the emergency room thinking
GE> > e> appendicitis. These women tend to be a)few, and b) obese.
GE> > e> Then there is another category teenagers or young women who do
GE> > e> not admit they are pregnant or wish it would go away. These
GE> > e> are the ones we hear about on the news "strangled her baby at
GE> > e> prom and then went
GE> >
GE> > There is also the case (of a very good friend of mine), of the
GE> > 3rd pregnancy not giving any signs whatsoever until about the 4th
GE> > to 5th month.
GE> >
GE> > Late last summer, first she was (not all that seriously) saying,
GE> > how nice it would be to have another baby[1], and a week or two
GE> > later she started suspecting she already was, went to the doctor
GE> > and was told she is already 4 to 5 months pregnant. Now, that was
GE> > really a surprise. (As was the birth, but that's another story.
GE> > The little boy is just in almost all things a bit
GE> > unusual/surprising. ;) )
[snip some more]
GE> In my Social Problems class, we just learned about the wonders of
GE> abortion. It did include pictures. So, I thought this was a
GE> perfect time to bring up a carefully worded question about the
GE> feasibility of Avi being pregnant and not showing it.
GE>
GE> Me: Would it be possible for a super athletic person, about 18 or
GE> 20, to be 4.5 or 5 months pregnant and not show it?
GE>
GE> Mrs. C: Yes, I didn't show with my first until the 6th month and I
GE> didn't wear maternity clothing until the 9th month.
That's what I was getting at. But not showing wasn't the only thing that
made my friends pregnancy 'invisible'. Any other expected sign (right down
to lacking the monthly 'womens troubles') wasn't present until the 4th to
5th month. Only then they all of a sudden decided to show up.
GE> Of course you must also note that Mrs. C. was a heavy smoker at the
GE> time and her daughter is only about 5'3.
I don't know wether there is any connection to smoking. My friend's other
two kids (7 and 9) seem the right size. :)
And with them she had a normal pregnancy.
GE> Draw your own conclusions. I think it's possible, but unlikely.
In the matter of Aviendha, I am undecided. And I do not really think this
very important/interesting yet. I just didn't agree with what Emilie said
about the topic, and wanted to spread my unqualified opinion a bit. ;)