David Potter
Theron Fuller
news:3B2C9DAB...@hotmail.com...
> Travers Naran wrote:
> >
> > When you die someday, Theron, do you believe, deep in your heart, that
> > you will get this kind of response? This kind of outpouring of love
> > from so many people that Gharlane has received this past week. Do you
> > believe you will have more than a dozen people who will even care?
>
> "Ding dong, the witch is dead..."
I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good, the
bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life. I don't
really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
The reaction to David Potter's death is truly amazing. Most of the
"outpouring of love" is for "Gharlane," David Potter's marvelous online
personna, and not for David Potter the man behind that personna. It's as if
when Jim Henson died, everybody mourned the death of Kermit the Frog and
almost totally ignored the memory of Jim Henson the man. Indeed, I've seen
numerous posts commenting that no attention at all should be given to the
memory of David Potter, a real person, and all the attention should be
directed to "Gharlane," a fiction that David Potter created and maintained
for so long. That's very sad.
Someone has observed that on the Internet, everyone is rich and good
looking. David Potter's creation, "Gharlane" was a very famous but very
reclusive science fiction writer, screen writer, and occasional cameo role
actor in films. Much of Gharlane's authority came from his assertion of
decades of experience, ranging from Science Fiction Theater in the early
'50s to stories he wrote under a pseudonym just before he died.
David Potter the man was a computer engineer at Cal State Sacramento for 20
years who spent up to 4 hours or more every day online in his "Gharlane"
personna.
An old Con cliche is, "Reality is for those who can't handle Science
Fiction." Apparently for many people, "Gharlane's memory is for those who
can't handle the reality of David Potter's death."
If you really want to pour out your love, eulogize David Potter the man, not
the fictictious "Gharlane."
Theron Fuller
Vinay Pandey
> I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good, the
> bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life. I don't
> really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
> The reaction to David Potter's death is truly amazing. Most of the
> "outpouring of love" is for "Gharlane," David Potter's marvelous online
> personna, and not for David Potter the man behind that personna. It's as if
> when Jim Henson died, everybody mourned the death of Kermit the Frog and
> almost totally ignored the memory of Jim Henson the man. Indeed, I've seen
> numerous posts commenting that no attention at all should be given to the
> memory of David Potter, a real person, and all the attention should be
> directed to "Gharlane," a fiction that David Potter created and maintained
> for so long. That's very sad.
Right. Except for the "That's very sad". I didn't know Jim
Henson, I didn't know Charles Schultz, nor Chuck Jones, and I
certainly didn't know who was behind Gharlane of Eddore. How
could I possibly comment or lament about someone I have no
knowledge of. My sympathies lie with the family and friends of
all of those, since at some point or another, their characters
brought me enjoyment; it is them that I miss.
What I miss, is that this particular comic strip is now changed,
sure there will be new characters, sure there'll be new trolls, but
I don't quite expect to see the part of Gharlane of Eddore being
reprised as well as it was. So ends this chapter of this particular
interactive stage-play, played across aether, with the consent and
participation of a global audience -- where there are no stars,
but some characters are more likable than others.
[...subtle troll snipped]
> If you really want to pour out your love, eulogize David Potter the man, not
> the fictictious "Gharlane."
Once more, thanks for your permission, but I don't know anyone called
David Potter. So, I'll miss the person I knew. You are free to
remember Gharlane as who you choose.
You, ofcourse, have my permission, as long as we're all giving
and receiving permission, continue forth on thine quest,
THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.
--
Fix mail address: reverse my name, reverse the host
David Johnston
<jns-t...@home.com> wrote:
>"John VanSickle" <evil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3B2C9DAB...@hotmail.com...
>> Travers Naran wrote:
>> >
>> > When you die someday, Theron, do you believe, deep in your heart, that
>> > you will get this kind of response? This kind of outpouring of love
>> > from so many people that Gharlane has received this past week. Do you
>> > believe you will have more than a dozen people who will even care?
>>
>> "Ding dong, the witch is dead..."
>
>I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good, the
>bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life. I don't
>really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
>
>The reaction to David Potter's death is truly amazing. Most of the
>"outpouring of love" is for "Gharlane," David Potter's marvelous online
>personna, and not for David Potter the man behind that personna. It's as if
>when Jim Henson died, everybody mourned the death of Kermit the Frog and
>almost totally ignored the memory of Jim Henson the man. Indeed, I've seen
>numerous posts commenting that no attention at all should be given to the
>memory of David Potter, a real person, and all the attention should be
>directed to "Gharlane," a fiction that David Potter created and maintained
>for so long. That's very sad.
<shrug> It's not as if any (or at least many) of these people
actually knew David Potter outside of his internet postings.
You can only miss what you experience.
The Effulgent And Torsional Mr. Hole
>In rec.arts.sf.tv Theron Fuller <jns-t...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good, the
>> bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life. I don't
>> really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
>
>> The reaction to David Potter's death is truly amazing. Most of the
>> "outpouring of love" is for "Gharlane," David Potter's marvelous online
>> personna, and not for David Potter the man behind that personna. It's as if
>> when Jim Henson died, everybody mourned the death of Kermit the Frog and
>> almost totally ignored the memory of Jim Henson the man. Indeed, I've seen
>> numerous posts commenting that no attention at all should be given to the
>> memory of David Potter, a real person, and all the attention should be
>> directed to "Gharlane," a fiction that David Potter created and maintained
>> for so long. That's very sad.
> Right. Except for the "That's very sad". I
> didn't know Jim Henson, I didn't know Charles
> Schultz, nor Chuck Jones, and I certainly
> didn't know who was behind Gharlane of Eddore.
HEY!!!11!!!! CHUCK JONES ISN'T DEAD!!!11!!!!
Please take your nasty Death-ray and point it some place else.
**
Mr. Hole
Jan Yarnot
> If you really want to pour out your love, eulogize David Potter the man, not
> the fictictious "Gharlane."
I've done that, but not for the likes of you. Rather I WILL do that,
because you sure can't read, Theron.
ObGharlane: "fictitious".
Tom Holt
got angry. I hated them. I wanted to smash their faces in with a rock.
Now Gharlane's dead too, and the likes of Fuller, Harper and O.Deus
are scrabbling in the freshly-turned earth, squatting and grinning
like jackals; and I haven't got the energy or the strength to feel
anger or hatred this time, just a weary and unbounded contempt. It
doesn't really matter any more. The truth speaks for itself and
besides, the odds is gone. I can sense Gharlane grinning and saying,
'It's only Usenet, don't worry about it.'
Nothing I could ever do to Fuller, Harper and O.Deus could ever be as
cruel and unusual as the punishment Nature has inflicted on them;
namely, the horrible indignity of being who they are. May they live
to be old, old men. May they live for ever.
Arthur Levesque
VP>I didn't know Jim Henson, I didn't know Charles Schultz, nor Chuck
VP>Jones...
ITYM Mel Blanc
/\ Arthur M Levesque 2A4W <*> b...@boog.orgy =/\= http://boog.org __
\B\ack King of the Potato People <fnord> "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!" (oO)
\S\lash Member of a vast right-wing conspiracy (-O-) Urban Spaceman /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable "I hate rainbows!"-EC
Vinay Pandey
> Right. Except for the "That's very sad". I
> didn't know Jim Henson, I didn't know Charles
> Schultz, nor Chuck Jones, and I certainly
> didn't know who was behind Gharlane of Eddore.
In rec.arts.sf.tv The Effulgent And Torsional Mr. Hole <holef...@webtv.net> wrote:
> HEY!!!11!!!! CHUCK JONES ISN'T DEAD!!!11!!!!
> Please take your nasty Death-ray and point it some place else.
In rec.arts.sf.tv Arthur Levesque <meist...@boog.org> wrote:
> ITYM Mel Blanc
Not being Eddorian, *I* make mistrakes. Consider this my 137th
mistake for the year. As penance, I shall now fire up my copy
of this year's "June Bugs" off the Cartoon Network for the next 24
hours. *And* I shall awaken every morning for the next week and 19
times I will recite
Bricka Bracka Fire Cracker
Sis Boom Bah
Bugs Bunny, Bugs Bunny
Rah Rah Rah
My most sincere apologies to Mr. Jones, may he live as long as he
chooses.
David Stinson
:"John VanSickle" <evil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:news:3B2C9DAB...@hotmail.com...
:> Travers Naran wrote:
:> >
:> > When you die someday, Theron, do you believe, deep in your heart, that
:> > you will get this kind of response? This kind of outpouring of love
:> > from so many people that Gharlane has received this past week. Do you
:> > believe you will have more than a dozen people who will even care?
:>
:> "Ding dong, the witch is dead..."
:
:I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good, the
:bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life. I don't
:really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
The fact is that he had the right to protect his identity. People respected
Gharlane by whatever name he used. To use it vindictively, as you have, is
sheer spite and in contradiction to the past wishes of the person involved. If
that is how you would wish to be treated, then feel free to show your colors
the way you have.
Most of us frankly don't care what name he went by, we cared about HIM. And if
you can't deal with that and respect it in death, Theron, then it says more
about you then it ever said about him.
--
David A. Stinson Web Page: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html
E-Mail: dsti...@ix.netcomz.com da...@procomz.com dast...@aolz.com
* NO ELECTRONS WERE HARMED DURING PRODUCTION OF THIS MESSAGE *
REMOVE Z FROM ADDRESS IN POST TO EMAIL.
norville
(David Stinson) wrote:
> In article <716X6.89067$G5.19...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>, "Theron
Fuller" <jns-t...@home.com> wrote:
>>I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good, the
>>bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life. I don't
>>really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
ObGharlane: "persona"
All we know of you, Theron, is your online persona, so excuse us if we're
not impressed by how wonderful you claim to be IRL.
> The fact is that he had the right to protect his identity.
Some people simply prefer not to freely give out their names, considering
what some people can do to them with that information. (For the same
reason, I refuse to talk to a stranger who's been pestering me at a bus
stop, always asking me personal information. I take him for a stalker and
don't want his attention. I have a right to think this way -- a stranger
at a bus stop once asked for my phone number, but I found him odd, so gave
him a wrong one; since I'd told him where I worked, he tried to call me at
work and get information about me! They refused. Luckily, I've never had
to deal with *that* one again.)
Other people get all uptight and say that obviously they're hiding things
and that they aren't worth listening to if they don't post by a real name.
I disagree, all right?
> Most of us frankly don't care what name he went by, we cared about HIM.
And if
> you can't deal with that and respect it in death, Theron, then it says more
> about you then it ever said about him.
Indeed. It says a great deal about an apparently psychotic fixation, just
as he has with JMS -- which is precisely *why* some people wish to keep
personal information to a minimum.
The only use I would have for Gharlane's name would be to find SF stories
that he'd written...
Klyfix
>
>The reaction to David Potter's death is truly amazing. Most of the
>"outpouring of love" is for "Gharlane," David Potter's marvelous online
>personna, and not for David Potter the man behind that personna. It's as if
>when Jim Henson died, everybody mourned the death of Kermit the Frog and
>almost totally ignored the memory of Jim Henson the man. Indeed, I've seen
>numerous posts commenting that no attention at all should be given to the
>memory of David Potter, a real person, and all the attention should be
>directed to "Gharlane," a fiction that David Potter created and maintained
>for so long. That's very sad.
>
Uhh, Kermit the Frog isn't dead, and didn't die with Henson.
Gharlane is the personae most of us were in contact with, and
he _is_ gone.
While I'm gonna agree partly that it may be absurd to call for maintaining
the pretense that Gharlane was not David Potter (although I'm inclined
to suspect that the "G" in the name was a bit of whimsy on his part)
when those who could be considered his "enemies" are fully aware
of that and when knowing about what he really wrote would give us
a fuller appreciation of his accomplishments, the reality is that
we online folk (even those of us who has a smidge of email contact)
were in contact with Gharlane as Gharlane and it really didn't
matter if he was a guy at a college or a bum under a bridge or
or a talking lab mouse.
Granted that is perhaps a difficult concept to wrap one's mind around.
V. S. Greene : kly...@aol.com : Boston, near Arkham...
Eckzylon: http://m1.aol.com/klyfix/eckzylon.html
RPG and SF, predictions, philosophy, and other things.
"It's not like Sioux Falls"-A guy on the Boston subway.
O Deus
Tom Holt wrote in message <200106171...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>Now Gharlane's dead too, and the likes of Fuller, Harper and O.Deus
>are scrabbling in the freshly-turned earth, squatting and grinning
Fuller is making some valid and respectfull points about the entire issue
which you and the rest of Potter's followers would rather ignore and rant
like a baboon flinging his feces at the zoo visitors.
And I didn't go negative until Potter's followers decide that a great way to
commemorate his name was by bashing his enemies and then I went negative and
if you want to whine about that, I suggest you turn your attention to the
people on your side who started it.
>doesn't really matter any more. The truth speaks for itself and
>besides, the odds is gone. I can sense Gharlane grinning and
Yes the truth does indeed speak for itself and the truth is was that
Gharlane was the online name of a man named David Potter whose actual
qualities most people are ignoring.
That is the truth but then you don't much like the truth. You'd rather have
the lie.
>Nothing I could ever do to Fuller, Harper and O.Deus could ever be as
>cruel and unusual as the punishment Nature has inflicted on them;
How original. Good luck with your career as a cut rate Terry Pratchett. It's
obvious now why you don't have the skill level to do any better than that.
>namely, the horrible indignity of being who they are. May they live
>to be old, old men. May they live for ever.
I'll go along with that.
Paul Harper
wrote:
Please point out where I deserve that?
The comment was made that sending money to a branch of the gun lobby
dealing with education was a fitting and worthy gesture. I agreed that
it was fitting but questioned the worthiness. There must be more
worthy ways to mark someone's passing?
I fail to see how this justifies the degree of petulant condemnation
you have just displayed.
I understand your hurt in this matter, and forgive your outburst for
that reason. You and Gharlane were very close. That much was obvious
all round, on both parts.
For your information, I did not, and do not consider myself an "enemy"
of Gharlane any more than I do of you. Both of you are "mark as
already read" in my kill filter because I disagreed with the offensive
way you both slagged off my country.
That does not make an "enemy" of either of you. It just means I didn't
want to read what you wrote.
If you recall, my first posting on this matter stated words to the
effect that although he was in my kill filter, I wished him luck
wherever he was.
That was, and remains, my position.
This pathetic circus that has built, and continues to build around
this man's premature death is now bordering on the nauseating.
Sorry you're upset Tom, but it ain't my fault you're upset.
Paul.
--
See Jeri Ryan at Retribution this year: www.supernova-conventions.com
A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
" . . . SFX is a fairly useless publication on just
about every imaginable front. Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so
little, with so much, for so long." JMS.
Paul Harper
<pa...@harper.netNOSPAM> wrote:
>If you recall, my first posting on this matter stated words to the
>effect that although he was in my kill filter, I wished him luck
>wherever he was.
For accuracy's sake, it wasn't here, but on the B5 moderated group,
where at 19:12 last Wednesday I said:
<quote>
On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:12:09 -0700, norv...@sonic.net wrote:
>Ohhhh, hell. Over the years, I had my disagreements with him, but always
>considered him to be worth reading.
He's been an entry in my kill file for some time now, but as you and
others say, there's no way to deny he was certainly a force on the
newsgroups.
Good luck to him wherever he is now.
Jeffrey Lindemuth
Tom Holt wrote in message <200106171...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>(A few eloquent words about watching people grinning and spitting at a wake, snipped herein for the sake of brevity)
to which
> O Deus spat back in his usual "style":
> (his usual stuff, snipped herein for the sake of sanity)
I just have a question. . . how is it that this "O Deus" continually
gets smaller and smaller and never disappears?
BW(not Jeffrey)L
Damn. This place is never going to be the same. The color seems to
have faded out.
Podkayne Fries
wrote:
>
>of Gharlane any more than I do of you. Both of you are "mark as
>already read" in my kill filter because I disagreed with the offensive
>way you both slagged off my country.
You're such a sensitive soul, aren't you, Paul? How awful it must be
for you to have been forced to read such vile calumnies about your cute
little island.
You are aware that the esteemed Mr. Holt is also a subject of the Queen,
are you not? Gharlane had a number of friends in the UK and has also
associated himself with Known Canadians.
Perhaps you failed to notice that Gharlane was as harsh with our
country's failings as he was with that of any other country? Search
for <gharlane + klinton>. In this country, freedom of speech is one of
our dearest rights.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
"WebTV is for people who think game shows are too hard." - Kibo
Tom Holt
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:31:08 +0100, Paul Harper <pa...@harper.netNOSPAM>
> wrote:
> >Both of you are "mark as
> >already read" in my kill filter because I disagreed with the offensive
> >way you both slagged off my country.
Since you were able to read my message, it would seem that your kill
filter doesn't work. This would suggest that the software was written
in the UK.
My killfile works just fine. Welcome to it.
Cordially,
Tom Holt
PS; Your country stinks. By a strange coincidence, so does mine.
Franklin Harris
"Podkayne Fries" <fr...@fairfieldi.com> wrote in message
news:3b2e84bb...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> Gharlane had a number of friends in the UK and has also
> associated himself with Known Canadians.
I am offended. This is not the proper time to dredge up our dear Gharlane's
faults.
--
Franklin Harris
Pulp Culture Online, www.pulpculture.net
"It is not I who am crazy. It is I who am mad!" -- Ren Hoek
Pål Are Nordal
>
> > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 17:31:08 +0100, Paul Harper <pa...@harper.netNOSPAM>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Both of you are "mark as
> > >already read" in my kill filter because I disagreed with the offensive
> > >way you both slagged off my country.
>
> Since you were able to read my message, it would seem that your kill
> filter doesn't work.
Ya know, I could swear Paul's post says "mark as already read", not
killfile, meaning that he can still see the post on the thread overview
and read it if he chooses too. Paul is (IMO) way too proud for is own
good, but right here you're ragging on him for the sake of ragging on him.
> This would suggest that the software was written in the UK.
He is using Agent, which I believe is a US product. However, if I'm not
mistaken, you're posting through custom software made by a UK ISP.
--
Run a screensaver that helps cancer research: http://www.ud.com/
(and join the "Excalibur" team)
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
recook77
Theron Fuller <jns-t...@home.com> wrote in message
news:716X6.89067$G5.19...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
> news:3B2C9DAB...@hotmail.com...
> > Travers Naran wrote:
> > >
> > > When you die someday, Theron, do you believe, deep in your heart, that
> > > you will get this kind of response? This kind of outpouring of love
> > > from so many people that Gharlane has received this past week. Do you
> > > believe you will have more than a dozen people who will even care?
> >
> > "Ding dong, the witch is dead..."
>
> I hope that when I die that I'll be honestly remembered for the good
country. The
> bad, and the ugly that people who knew me experienced in real life
duh. I don't
> really care at all what will be said or not said about my online personna.
>
> The reaction to David Potter's death is truly amazing. Most of the
The
>outpouring of love" is for "Gharlane," David Potter's marvelous online
that
> personna, and not for David Potter the man behind that personna. It's as
if
remember
> when Jim Henson died, everybody mourned the death of Kermit the Frog and
They
> almost totally ignored the memory of Jim Henson the man. Indeed, I've seen
Instead,
> numerous posts commenting that no attention at all should be given to the
from the
> memory of David Potter, a real person, and all the attention should be
mail clerk.
--
"If you don't like the effects, don't produce the cause."
George Clinton
>
>
>
>
recook77
> wrote:
> >
> >For your information, I did not, and do not consider myself an "enemy"
> >of Gharlane any more than I do of you. Both of you are "mark as
> >already read" in my kill filter because I disagreed with the offensive
> >way you both slagged off my country.
>
> You're such a sensitive soul, aren't you, Paul? How awful it must be
> for you to have been forced to read such vile calumnies about your cute
> little island.
Well, it is a cute little island. But Block Island is cuter. It doesn't
have a queen, but it is awfully cute and you can go rent bikes and pedal
around. Fuuuuuuuuuuun.
But Block Island doesn't have kewl castles and old buildings like England
does.
>
> You are aware that the esteemed Mr. Holt is also a subject of the Queen,
> are you not? Gharlane had a number of friends in the UK and has also
> associated himself with Known Canadians.
Oh, I'm sure that Gharlane was no Anglophobe. OTOH, his taste in music left
a lot to be desired.
The man had the cojones to refer to Kate Bush as a "professional screecher."
A SCREECHER, I say! Since when does Kate Bush screech?
Some people don't know great voices when they hear them. HMPH.
;)
O Deus
whole grandure of my substance
--
But then this episode doesn't allow anything to interfere with its theme of
"Voyager, Happy Family" even it makes little realistic sense. And being a
happy family, everyone must be assimilated into the happy family so it's
fitting that Lineage hinges on the linked and equally trivial and saccharine
theme of having Torres learn to accept being accepted. It's almost like a
Hallmark Gold Crown store threw up on Ken Biller's I-Mac.
Jeffrey Lindemuth wrote in message <3B2E7732...@bronze.coil.com>...
O Deus
Podkayne Fries wrote in message
>You are aware that the esteemed Mr. Holt is also a subject of the Queen,
Hmm that puts a whole new twist on his relationship with Potter.
>are you not? Gharlane had a number of friends in the UK and has also
>associated himself with Known Canadians.
How charitable of him to remain cordial with some members of groups he
hated. Little tip here, the "some of my best friends" routine is generally
the last ditch defense of a bigot.
>Perhaps you failed to notice that Gharlane was as harsh with our
>country's failings as he was with that of any other country? Search
>for <gharlane + klinton>. In this country, freedom of speech is one of
>our dearest rights.
Yes Gharlane hated all liberals and anyone who would rob him of his stock of
weapons he no reasonable use for.
Dammit
wackylace snipped
<something, finally, to smile at!>
Somehow - prolly because I don't have much time to do more than scan a
few threads at breakneck speeds between switching sides (huh? what
sides? ;-p ) - all the sturm und drag attending the Gharlane eulogy
wars have been relegated to the status of white noise, for me.
A number of us already went through this with Cronan. A lot of time
wasted trying to explain oyster by-products to porcines. (Not u,
Porco.)
Some people care about The Name because they wish to inflict a final
insult. Some out of idle curiousity. Some, because they would have
liked to have known the person a little better. (I, for one, found
Gharlane just a little intimidating on the intellectual plane,
although he was never anything but generous and gentlemanly in the few
emails we exchanged.)
Podkayne & others' points about the respectful and the precautionary
*reasons* for continued anonymity are well taken...but I think it also
bears remembering that Gharlane's victory over his lessers has very
little to do with "true names" - in the birth certificate/phone book
sense, anyway. He kept the real poseurs ranting and raving, foaming &
chomping, right to the end.
Yes, Virginia, there IS a Gharlane.
LisaB
Paul Harper
wrote:
>You're such a sensitive soul, aren't you, Paul? How awful it must be
>for you to have been forced to read such vile calumnies about your cute
>little island.
Since when was it a crime to take exception when a foreigner and
so-called countryman post offensive comments against my home country?
Is marking such posts as "already read" so I don't automatically read
them such a terrible counter-reaction?
>You are aware that the esteemed Mr. Holt is also a subject of the Queen,
>are you not? Gharlane had a number of friends in the UK and has also
>associated himself with Known Canadians.
Gharlane never had trouble differentiating between country and person.
I count as friends a couple of people over here with whom he had
frequent and very cordial exchanges (no, *not* Mr Holt!). He also had
an annoying habit of slagging off my country at the drop of a hat, and
for no good reason that I could ever detect.
I am very much aware of Mr Holt's heritage, and his issues with his
own country, and his heart-felt desire to get himself out of it. A
move I whole heartedly support.
But since his posts seemed to be little more than pale imitations of
Gharlane's but without the extensive sci-fi knowledge, there wasn't
much point reading them either.
>Perhaps you failed to notice that Gharlane was as harsh with our
>country's failings as he was with that of any other country? Search
>for <gharlane + klinton>. In this country, freedom of speech is one of
>our dearest rights.
We've had freedom of speech for hundreds of years as well. Freedom of
speech does not imply the right to be heard, though.
As for Gharlane's harshness with his own country - that is Gharlane's
right. I am aware of the many and varied failings of my own country,
lest you think me some kind of blind patriotic idiot (a charge
frequently leveled in my direction when the topic once again went that
way), but I don't feel the need to provide amusement for others by
pointing them out.
If I didn't like it so much here, I would leave. No excuses, no
artificial barriers, no slagging it off - just leave.
For now, I choose not to - though in the interests of honesty, there
are a couple of rather nice Spanish places we're playing at looking at
if we can sort out the children's education and my employment. It'll
be good to feel the sun occasionally on my back again, and the sort of
place we can buy with the proceeds of selling out houses here in
London would be spectacular!
Paul.
--
See Jeri Ryan at the Retribution Convention : www.supernova-conventions.com
Paul Harper
wrote:
>
>
So you're not going to bother answering what I thought was (and
certainly intended to be) a well-meaning and very well balanced
message? Fine. Your decision.
Lose the red mist Tom.
It's making you forget what's important, it's beneath you and it
demeans Gharlane.
It's time to get out from behind the denial and move on.
Paul.
--
See Jeri Ryan at the Retribution Convention : www.supernova-conventions.com
Paul Harper
<pa...@harper.netNOSPAM> wrote:
>and the sort of
>place we can buy with the proceeds of selling out houses here in
>London would be spectacular!
"out houses"? <grin!>
Harper, the outside loo salesman :-)
Make that "our houses"...
Paul.
--
See Jeri Ryan at Retribution this year: www.supernova-conventions.com
Theron Fuller
"recook77" <reco...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9gmbi5$mq0$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
David Potter would be proud that you did this in a thread with his name on
it.
It's a fitting eulogy for his wake.
Theron Fuller
Harry Erwin
>
> Yes Gharlane hated all liberals and anyone who would rob him of his stock of
> weapons he no reasonable use for.
Really? I got along with him fine working together on the Schmitz
project.
--
Dr. Harry Erwin, ha...@dherwin.org, http://world.std.com/~herwin
felix
"Klyfix" <kly...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20010617202039...@nso-ca.aol.com...
...stuff deleted...
>
> While I'm gonna agree partly that it may be absurd to call for maintaining
> the pretense that Gharlane was not David Potter (although I'm inclined
> to suspect that the "G" in the name was a bit of whimsy on his part)
> when those who could be considered his "enemies" are fully aware
> of that and when knowing about what he really wrote would give us
> a fuller appreciation of his accomplishments, the reality is that
> we online folk (even those of us who has a smidge of email contact)
> were in contact with Gharlane as Gharlane and it really didn't
> matter if he was a guy at a college or a bum under a bridge or
> or a talking lab mouse.
Or a brain in a jar?
felix
felix
"Tom Holt" <lemmi...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200106171...@zetnet.co.uk...
> When Cronan died and his enemies crawled out to shit on his grave, I
> got angry. I hated them. I wanted to smash their faces in with a rock.
>
> Now Gharlane's dead too, and the likes of Fuller, Harper and O.Deus
> are scrabbling in the freshly-turned earth, squatting and grinning
> like jackals; and I haven't got the energy or the strength to feel
> anger or hatred this time, just a weary and unbounded contempt. It
I hope you'll excuse my butting in, I just wanted to point out that you may
be unfairly maligning Paul Harper by lumping him in with the other two. Of
the 222 posts I've read so far, there is not one post in which he may
reasonably be termed as 'grinning like a jackal.' He has a couple of posts
of which the worst I can say would be that in the Usenet equivalent of a
wake, he spotted something that raised his ire and he then proceeded
make his displeasure known with no regards to innocent bystanders.
Impolite and boorish, maybe, disrespectful, perhaps, but hardly with malice
intended.
The less said about the other two in your list, better I think.
> doesn't really matter any more. The truth speaks for itself and
> besides, the odds is gone. I can sense Gharlane grinning and saying,
> 'It's only Usenet, don't worry about it.'
...rest of stuff deleted...
David Stinson
:O Deus <od...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
:
:>
:> Yes Gharlane hated all liberals and anyone who would rob him of his stock of
:> weapons he no reasonable use for.
:
:Really? I got along with him fine working together on the Schmitz
:project.
He didn't have that much trouble with me and I'm a lifelong liberal. We
disagreed on politics but we were friends.
Jeff Walther
> I just have a question. . . how is it that this "O Deus" continually
> gets smaller and smaller and never disappears?
"Convergent Series" He's trying to materialize on his own belly.
> Damn. This place is never going to be the same. The color seems to
> have faded out.
Damn. Must refrain from reading these threads at the office. I keep
tearing up and it's embarrassing.
Geoduck
(snip)
>Some people care about The Name because they wish to inflict a final
>insult. Some out of idle curiousity. Some, because they would have
>liked to have known the person a little better. (I, for one, found
>Gharlane just a little intimidating on the intellectual plane,
>although he was never anything but generous and gentlemanly in the few
>emails we exchanged.)
(snip)
I felt that way as well; as much as I respected Gharlane and enjoyed
his posts, I don't like hanging around with people who make me feel
like an idiot, and Gharlane could do that without even trying.
And there were the times when he deliberately tried to make you feel
like an idiot... Hooo boy...
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Tom Holt
from "felix" <fi...@deja.com> contains these words:
> I hope you'll excuse my butting in, I just wanted to point out that you may
> be unfairly maligning Paul Harper by lumping him in with the other two.
I don't think so. In fact, I consider Harper to be the most culpable
of the three. From Fuller and 'Odeus' I expected nothing better.
Harper's unforgivable behavior at this time has shocked and disgusted
me. I honestly believed he was better than that. I was wrong.
Paul Harper
>I hope you'll excuse my butting in, I just wanted to point out that you may
>be unfairly maligning Paul Harper by lumping him in with the other two. Of
>the 222 posts I've read so far, there is not one post in which he may
>reasonably be termed as 'grinning like a jackal.' He has a couple of posts
>of which the worst I can say would be that in the Usenet equivalent of a
>wake, he spotted something that raised his ire and he then proceeded
>make his displeasure known with no regards to innocent bystanders.
>Impolite and boorish, maybe, disrespectful, perhaps, but hardly with malice
>intended.
Doesn't that last sentence remind you of someone? For my part, I can
assure you there was no malice at all.
I *have* tried to explain that to him, in a calm and reasonable way,
but he's not listening. I have now stopped trying to explain, figuring
that I am wasting my time and that he's not interested, preferring to
believe his own prejudices in this matter rather than the truth.
Which is a shame, really.
Paul.
--
See Jeri Ryan at the Retribution Convention : www.supernova-conventions.com
Pål Are Nordal
>
> Since when was it a crime to take exception when a foreigner and
> so-called countryman post offensive comments against my home country?
You mentioned elsewhere that people weren't getting your humour. In this
case, I don't think you were getting Gharlane's. While it's obvious he
wasn't all that fond of the UK or its government, the "hell on Earth"
type comments seemed to be a fair bit of hyperbole, designed mostly to
jank a few chains. If you hadn't been so damn serious about it, I'd
think his arguments would have started moving the same way as many of
the anti-Canadian ones (where he dragged in igloos, penguins and killer moose).
I think you took the insults far more personally than they were
intended, and in any case - to most of the people here, those posts are
probably largely irrelevant to what they feel Gharlane was and what he
stood for. So, I must add myself to the ones commenting on your posts -
I too feel they are inappropriate, and I'd wish you'd just try to let it lie.
Please.
O Deus
Lurker
"Pål Are Nordal" <a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3B300234...@bigfoot.com...
> Paul Harper wrote:
> >
> > Since when was it a crime to take exception when a foreigner and
> > so-called countryman post offensive comments against my home country?
>
> You mentioned elsewhere that people weren't getting your humour. In this
> case, I don't think you were getting Gharlane's. While it's obvious he
> wasn't all that fond of the UK or its government, the "hell on Earth"
> type comments seemed to be a fair bit of hyperbole, designed mostly to
> jank
OBGharlane> "Yank"
The Effulgent And Torsional Mr. Hole
Some of my fondest Usenet memories are of Cronan taunting him in a
condescending manner, he always knew the right path to take.
**
Mr. Hole
His posts are real.
But he is not.
Vinay Pandey
On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:21:35 GMT, Dammit <lisa...@home.com> wrote:
[...]
> (I, for one, found
> Gharlane just a little intimidating on the intellectual plane,
> although he was never anything but generous and gentlemanly in the few
> emails we exchanged.)
[presuming same context for da 'duck's comments]
In rec.arts.sf.tv Geoduck <geo...@usa.net> wrote:
> I felt that way as well; as much as I respected Gharlane and enjoyed
> his posts, I don't like hanging around with people who make me feel
> like an idiot, and Gharlane could do that without even trying.
> And there were the times when he deliberately tried to make you feel
> like an idiot... Hooo boy...
I agree that Sr De Eddore was *way* smarter than me, but I don't
remember him ever trying to make me feel like an idiot. His
harshest words to me were when I misinterpreted STARSHIP TROOPER's
Federal Service and Military Service. "You are experiencing a
WHORFIAN linguistic problem". And even there, even, when I
misinterpreted RAH's work, he did not attack me. His harsh language
was to jar me awake from my sleep, and re-analyze the situation.
So, I don't think he was trying to make me feel like an idiot, just
helping me become a better thinker.
--
Fix mail address: reverse my name, reverse the host
Klyfix
> the reality is that
>> we online folk (even those of us who has a smidge of email contact)
>> were in contact with Gharlane as Gharlane and it really didn't
>> matter if he was a guy at a college or a bum under a bridge or
>> or a talking lab mouse.
>
>Or a brain in a jar?
>
Well, of course! :)
V. S. Greene : kly...@aol.com : Boston, near Arkham...
Eckzylon: http://m1.aol.com/klyfix/eckzylon.html
RPG and SF, predictions, philosophy, and other things.
"It's not like Sioux Falls"-A guy on the Boston subway.
Klyfix
harry...@sunderland.ac.uk (Harry Erwin) writes:
>
>O Deus <od...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes Gharlane hated all liberals and anyone who would rob him of his stock
>of
>> weapons he no reasonable use for.
>
>Really? I got along with him fine working together on the Schmitz
>project.
>--
Umm, "Scmitz Project"? What is that, if I may ask?
Hmm, and I'm an Evil Liberal (okay, really a pragmitist) and
Gharlane didn't hate me. Really.
Paul Harper
<a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>You mentioned elsewhere that people weren't getting your humour. In this
>case, I don't think you were getting Gharlane's.
That was frequently what he said as well. I guess people just don't /
won't get what they don't want to.
>So, I must add myself to the ones commenting on your posts -
>I too feel they are inappropriate, and I'd wish you'd just try to let it lie.
>
>Please.
My point has been made and doesn't need repeating so, fair request and
very politely put. Agreed.
Geoduck
<a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
(snip)
> While it's obvious he
>wasn't all that fond of the UK or its government, the "hell on Earth"
>type comments seemed to be a fair bit of hyperbole, designed mostly to
>jank a few chains. If you hadn't been so damn serious about it, I'd
>think his arguments would have started moving the same way as many of
>the anti-Canadian ones (where he dragged in igloos, penguins and killer moose).
(snip)
Polar bears, silly. Not penguins.
As for the UK...
Several times, I almost screwed up the nerve to ask Gharlane when the
last time he was in England. Never could quite bring myself do it;
guess deep down I didn't really want to know. The reason I thought
about asking was that if he hadn't been there in 30+ years, as was
sometimes hinted in his posts, his memories/comments about England may
have been (even more?) accurate. I don't think most Americans realize
just how massive a hit England took during WWII, and how grim it was
to be living there in the decades afterwards. I have relatives who
moved to England in the 60s and made a fortune, because, from the way
they told it to me 3-odd decades later, the native population was
still wandering around like a lot of zombies.
But times change. And Gharlane, if you're still out there somewhere,
the English now *do* have actual freeways, and video stores, and
computers, and supermarkets with big parking lots for cars, and you
can go into the store with your nifty wheeled basket and buy all kinds
of actual food. They may even now have dentists, but I don't have
first-hand knowlege on that point...
Of course, they still can't make sandwiches worth a darn.
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Paul Harper
<a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Please.
Vis Galaxy Quest:
Pål : Give it a rest, huh?
Paul: I don't want to and nothing you can say will make me
Pål : Please
Paul: Damn you!
<grin!>
PAul.
David Silberstein
Jeffrey Lindemuth <li...@bronze.coil.com> wrote:
(referring to one whose words are best ignored)
>
>I just have a question. . . how is it that this "O Deus" continually
>gets smaller and smaller and never disappears?
>
The curve of increasing pettiness is as a donkey which transforms into
a micro-demon in the form of an amphibian, i.e., an Ass->imp(toad).
>BW(not Jeffrey)L
>
>Damn. This place is never going to be the same. The color seems to
>have faded out.
Yah.
I'll never know what he would have thought of British Interned Legends...
Harry Erwin
> In article <1ev8qmc.1a3ve3uls211cN%harry...@sunderland.ac.uk>,
> harry...@sunderland.ac.uk (Harry Erwin) writes:
>
> >
> >O Deus <od...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Yes Gharlane hated all liberals and anyone who would rob him of his stock
> >of
> >> weapons he no reasonable use for.
> >
> >Really? I got along with him fine working together on the Schmitz
> >project.
> >--
>
> Umm, "Scmitz Project"? What is that, if I may ask?
>
You may have noted that James Schmitz is back in print (Baen). Check out
the names on page 429 of the first volume ("Telzey Amberdon").
Harry Erwin
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 03:53:51 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= Are Nordal
> <a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> As for the UK...
> Several times, I almost screwed up the nerve to ask Gharlane when the
> last time he was in England. Never could quite bring myself do it;
> guess deep down I didn't really want to know. The reason I thought
> about asking was that if he hadn't been there in 30+ years, as was
> sometimes hinted in his posts, his memories/comments about England may
> have been (even more?) accurate. I don't think most Americans realize
> just how massive a hit England took during WWII, and how grim it was
> to be living there in the decades afterwards. I have relatives who
> moved to England in the 60s and made a fortune, because, from the way
> they told it to me 3-odd decades later, the native population was
> still wandering around like a lot of zombies.
Still to some extent true. I don't know if it's because a significant
portion of the population has been trained to deny their brains, but I
sometimes observe behavior in the local neighborhood that just seems
terminally dumb.
felix
"Paul Harper" <pa...@harper.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:7covit025pv4qh4dg...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:46:14 -0400, "felix" <fi...@deja.com> wrote:
>
> >I hope you'll excuse my butting in, I just wanted to point out that you
may
> >be unfairly maligning Paul Harper by lumping him in with the other two.
Of
> >the 222 posts I've read so far, there is not one post in which he may
> >reasonably be termed as 'grinning like a jackal.' He has a couple of
posts
> >of which the worst I can say would be that in the Usenet equivalent of a
> >wake, he spotted something that raised his ire and he then proceeded
> >make his displeasure known with no regards to innocent bystanders.
> >Impolite and boorish, maybe, disrespectful, perhaps, but hardly with
malice
> >intended.
>
> Doesn't that last sentence remind you of someone? For my part, I can
> assure you there was no malice at all.
As a matter of fact it did when I wrote it. Saddened as I am that I will no
longer
see any new posts from the Eddorian, I do still remember with pleasure when
I
'discovered' his posts over a decade ago. His flames were always a joy to
read
(especially since I never became a target of them) crafted as they were by
someone
who REALLY knew how to write. I perceived them though as more of a
challenge,
'prove me wrong,' rather than to actually hurt someone. Other people may
have
thought differently but I never considered his flames as meant with malice.
Unfortunately, the last few years I have not had a good Usenet feed and
though I
could follow somewhat through dejanews, I simply could not really indulge in
following and participating in discussions. Now that I again have a regular
news server
I find out that one of the reasons I enjoyed USENET so much is gone.
Sigh...
>
> I *have* tried to explain that to him, in a calm and reasonable way,
> but he's not listening. I have now stopped trying to explain, figuring
> that I am wasting my time and that he's not interested, preferring to
> believe his own prejudices in this matter rather than the truth.
>
> Which is a shame, really.
>
All we can do is try. I do have a favor to ask though, not just of you but
anybody else
who are discussing off-topic subjects in the other Gharlane threads to at
least change
the subject (something like OT Gun Thread) so at least other people may more
easily
avoid posts they would not want to read. I've tried it once already but the
next poster
simply replied to the upthread post so it didn't quite work. It would be a
nice display of
courtesy. Thanks.
felix
Dammit
>Some of my fondest Usenet memories are of Cronan taunting him in a
>condescending manner, he always knew the right path to take.
Reading Cronan & Gharlane sparring was like watching two haggled
grannies try to teach each other to suck eggs. :-)
A bit of my favorite Gharlane/Cronan Exchange, from about 3 years back
- subject line, "Absence Makes the Heart Clam Chowder":
"Plain and Simple Cronan" <ja...@mindspring.com> wrote:
><snipped>
>
>Plain & Simple Cronan <ja...@mindspring.com> pointed out that Gharlane's
>conclusions were based on erroneous half-data with the following:
>> Have you ever worked with autistic children, oh reputed Eddorian of mine?
>
>
>Gharlane of Eddore continued his reprimand with:
>>No, but I've *been* one, if that counts. Not to mention what Keltner later
>>evaluated as "Stage Four Dyslexic," although it was not at all fashionable
>>in those days, and the preferred treatment was simply corporal punishment.
>
>I find myself asking, in the face of your heart-wrenching tale, it's
>relevance. However, in favor of goodwill to man and beast, I will allow your
>tale of woe and hardship to serve in the place of something substantive.
>
>>> I sincerely doubt, for all a genuine antediluvian canned encephalon such
>>> as yourself may catalogue in their impressive inventory of
>accomplishments,
>>> that such a demanding, yet rewarding, pursuit is among them.
>>>
>>
>>( Nicely turned phrase. In fact, the only reason I chose to dignify
>> your post with a response. )
>
>You would expect less from one of plain simplicity?
>
>
>>Dang straight. HOWEVER, no matter how exemplary your performance in
>>this area, you still get to go home at night. JMS has set himself
>>up with a situation where the job goes home with him, and keeps him
>>up all night. ( His choice, certainly; but it *is* the state of affairs.)
>
>JMS' self-immolation is a product of his carrying the burden beyond of a most
>dedicated professional. I have no qualm with this. Tis your perfunctory
>minimization of my obligations and responsibilities as trifling matters of
>negligible worth that has so exasperated my otherwise imperturbable veneer.
>(I must say that I'd have never dreamed of seeing you starstruck.)
>
>
>>Oh, certainly I can be replaced; but not by a callow stripling such
>>as yourself...... you're too kind, gentle, compassionate, and courteous.
>
>It appears as though my boyish charm has misled you as it has so many others.
>You forget, Gharlane, it's not the length of your stay but what use you've
>made of it.
>
>
>>Get back to us as soon as you've qualified "Expert" with at least
>>three variant types of firearm, earned black belts in at least two
>>disparate styles, and know all of Fred Faust's pen names, and we'll
>>put your resume on file with the other applicants'.
>>
>>In the meantime, don't call us, we'll call you.
>
>Oh, you wacky Eddorian! Your vociferous nature has gotten the better of you
>once again. (And while rebuking a usurper, no less!)
>
>To allegorize even my accelerated development, which is only just approaching
>the completion of its 2nd decade, to that of one who is, at the very least, a
>bona fide septuagenarian would be a fool's errand. Let us instead ask if your
>brand of wisdom is worth servile devotion to the status quo.
>
>
>P&SC
>"Old people like to give good advice, as solace for no longer being able to
>provide bad examples." La Rochefoucauld, _Maxims_
>
LisaB
>It appears as though my boyish charm has misled you as it has so many others.
>You forget, Gharlane, it's not the length of your stay but what use you've
>made of it. - "Plain & Simple Cronan"
Paul Harper
>All we can do is try. I do have a favor to ask though, not just of you but
>anybody else
>who are discussing off-topic subjects in the other Gharlane threads to at
>least change
>the subject (something like OT Gun Thread) so at least other people may more
>easily
>avoid posts they would not want to read.
Already politely requested by another poster and agreed to by me. No
problem.
felix
I will not try to argue how much his actions hurt you, I do not have the
same
yardstick to go by as you do. I do say that if you want to blast him, do it
for what
he alone has done, not the other two. Deal with him as he is, not what he
is not. He
is neither someone who seems to have a pathological obsession with
somebody's
"real name" who even now won't let it rest; nor is he a troll whose behavior
at this time
is worse than a carrion eater's. A carrion eater at least has the excuse
that it bothers the dead
to survive, the aforementioned troll does it merely to call attention to
himself.
To group all three together and accuse them of the same type of crime is
wrong. Those
who know Theron and Odeus might assume that Paul is just like them and I
think that is an
injustice. If you disagree, fine, we disagree. But possibly, and even
worse, those who know
Paul and think he is not the monster you think he is might also start
thinking that the other
two are not as bad as some people seem to think they are. Now that is just
wrong and I
will not concede any point about that with you.
If you must expend your anger and frustration, aim at the right target and
for the right reasons.
If you remember, Gharlane always made distinctions between O' Bannon and
Braga and Goldberg etc...
so that you are never in doubt about exactly what he has against each one
and you will not
mistake one's transgressions against science fiction with the others'. All
I ask is for the same level
of care about the details. I would venture to say that the Eddorian,
wherever he is now, would approve.
felix
Tom Holt
from kly...@aol.comedy (Klyfix) contains these words:
> In article <1ev8qmc.1a3ve3uls211cN%harry...@sunderland.ac.uk>,
> harry...@sunderland.ac.uk (Harry Erwin) writes:
> >
> >Really? I got along with him fine working together on the Schmitz
> >project.
> >--
> Umm, "Scmitz Project"? What is that, if I may ask?
As I understand it, he was helping to see various OOP works by James
H Schmitz ('The Witches Of Karres' &c &c) through the press.
Paul Harper
Just tried to email you - could you drop me a quick line, please?
(take "NOSPAM" out)
Thanks
Paul.
Klyfix
<lemmi...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Umm, "Scmitz Project"? What is that, if I may ask?
>
>As I understand it, he was helping to see various OOP works by James
>H Schmitz ('The Witches Of Karres' &c &c) through the press.
>
*BING* Ahhh, "Witches" I recognize. Cool.
Klyfix
harry...@sunderland.ac.uk (Harry Erwin) writes:
> >
>> >Really? I got along with him fine working together on the Schmitz
>> >project.
>> >--
>>
>> Umm, "Scmitz Project"? What is that, if I may ask?
>>
>
>You may have noted that James Schmitz is back in print (Baen). Check out
>the names on page 429 of the first volume ("Telzey Amberdon").
>
Ah, okay. I shall check this out.
Robert Holland
> When Cronan died and his enemies crawled out to shit on his grave, I
> got angry. I hated them. I wanted to smash their faces in with a rock.
And yet, they are merely usenet personas. They don't exist outside of
Usenet.
> Now Gharlane's dead too, and the likes of Fuller, Harper and O.Deus
> are scrabbling in the freshly-turned earth, squatting and grinning
> like jackals; and I haven't got the energy or the strength to feel
> anger or hatred this time, just a weary and unbounded contempt. It
> doesn't really matter any more. The truth speaks for itself and
> besides, the odds is gone. I can sense Gharlane grinning and saying,
> 'It's only Usenet, don't worry about it.'
The Gherkin persona was long past its prime. As for the man behind it,
well, it's a shame to die at 54, no matter how you chose to spend your
time.
> Nothing I could ever do to Fuller, Harper and O.Deus could ever be as
> cruel and unusual as the punishment Nature has inflicted on them;
> namely, the horrible indignity of being who they are. May they live
> to be old, old men. May they live for ever.
Such as it ever was--overheated rhetoric targeting people who express
opinions contrary to your own.
This is Usenet, where you exist only if you post. Voyager is over, so
there was no reason for the ol' dill to carry forward.
RH
William December Starr
rhol...@wht.jarin.net (Robert Holland) said:
>> When Cronan died and his enemies crawled out to shit on his grave,
>> I got angry. I hated them. I wanted to smash their faces in with a
>> rock. [Tom Holt]
>
> And yet, they are merely usenet personas. They don't exist outside
> of Usenet.
That's one view of things, but it's one to which I cannot subscribe.
If what people say in Usenet is not a reflection of their real selves,
why should what they say in meat-life be considered an accurate
projection of their true selves either?
"Oh, he may have stoop up at a public rally and said 'All Jews and
niggers should die,' but was just his public persona; it doesn't exist
when he's at home..."
If someone says something where they know it's going to be heard (or
read) by others, they should be held accountable for it. Even if such
accountability only extends to the realm of others' opinions about
what sort of people they are.
-- William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
William December Starr
>> When Cronan died and his enemies crawled out to shit on his grave,
>> I got angry. I hated them. I wanted to smash their faces in with a
>> rock. [Tom Holt]
>
> And yet, they are merely usenet personas. They don't exist outside
> of Usenet.
That's one view of things, but it's one to which I cannot subscribe.
If what people say in Usenet is not a reflection of their real selves,
why should what they say in meat-life be considered an accurate
projection of their true selves either?
"Oh, he may have stood up at a public rally and said 'All Jews and
Robert Holland
> In article <98e23102.01062...@posting.google.com>,
> rhol...@wht.jarin.net (Robert Holland) said:
>
> >> When Cronan died and his enemies crawled out to shit on his grave,
> >> I got angry. I hated them. I wanted to smash their faces in with a
> >> rock. [Tom Holt]
> >
> > And yet, they are merely usenet personas. They don't exist outside
> > of Usenet.
>
> That's one view of things, but it's one to which I cannot subscribe.
As you will, for this is your perogative.
> If what people say in Usenet is not a reflection of their real selves,
> why should what they say in meat-life be considered an accurate
> projection of their true selves either?
>
> "Oh, he may have stood up at a public rally and said 'All Jews and
> niggers should die,' but was just his public persona; it doesn't exist
> when he's at home..."
>
> If someone says something where they know it's going to be heard (or
> read) by others, they should be held accountable for it. Even if such
> accountability only extends to the realm of others' opinions about
> what sort of people they are.
All the world is a stage, my friend.
Written well before Usenet.
RH
Jaime De Castellvi
Dammit <lisa...@home.com> wrote:
>"recook77" <reco...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>wackylace snipped
><something, finally, to smile at!>
>Somehow - prolly because I don't have much time to do more than scan a
>few threads at breakneck speeds between switching sides (huh? what
>sides? ;-p ) - all the sturm und drag attending the Gharlane eulogy
>wars have been relegated to the status of white noise, for me.
>A number of us already went through this with Cronan. A lot of time
>wasted trying to explain oyster by-products to porcines. (Not u,
>Porco.)
>Some people care about The Name because they wish to inflict a final
>insult. Some out of idle curiousity. Some, because they would have
>liked to have known the person a little better. (I, for one, found
>Gharlane just a little intimidating on the intellectual plane,
>although he was never anything but generous and gentlemanly in the few
>emails we exchanged.)
>Podkayne & others' points about the respectful and the precautionary
>*reasons* for continued anonymity are well taken...but I think it also
>bears remembering that Gharlane's victory over his lessers has very
>little to do with "true names" - in the birth certificate/phone book
>sense, anyway. He kept the real poseurs ranting and raving, foaming &
>chomping, right to the end.
>Yes, Virginia, there IS a Gharlane.
>LisaB
You know, put that way it does remind me a lot of the story of El Cid, who
wielded such power over his enemies psyches that even after his death he
was able to defeat them in one final battle. His corpse had far more
winning presence than the beating livers of those who opposed him. I
think that Gharlane would have been mildly amused by all this.
Last week, me and Beth both strongly felt that the best tribute we could
offer our friend was to avoid adding another "me too" post to the long
list, to keep our feelings private. As for eulogies, there were some
excellent ones posted already, each as unique and special as the persons
who posted them. But this week, once the initial surge had subside, I've
been reading through the threads, the words of the folks who attended the
memorial... the feeling has been slowly changing. Finally, after reading
your wonderful post, Lisa, I realized that there was some stuff I could
not leave unsaid either.
When you hit Usenet for the first time as a wide-eyed newbie, you face a
realm of mystery, wit and excitement which literally takes your breath
away. My time for this was on the rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 of the spring
of 95. I'd been told by the same very dear lemming friend who'd
introduced me to the show and to Usenet that the producer was on-line
there. If we'd had a public internet back in 66, this seemed as magical
and unbelievable as if we'd had Gene on-line in the early days of Trek.
My friend also warned me about a couple of well-known kooks in the group
(they haven't evolved much since, though one's perception of their
function certainly changes over time) and, on the plus side, had
recommended I read "anything written by a poster who refers to himself as
Gharlane of Eddore".
Everyone seemed intimidating then. One wanted to add something
meaningful, to be liked, to carve oneself a little space of one's own in
this brave new world of virtual and exciting human intercourse. Everybody
needs to reinvent oneself for Usenet to greater or lesser degree, and the
process may take either a few inspired moments or many years. Meanwhile,
one also watched the kooks, in some wonder as to what could possibly make
them tick. And one reads, with increasing awe, admiration and --as is
humanly permissible-- a little envy, the amazingly elegant, witty and
informed posts of that mysterious Gharlane, whose image was enhanced by
that techno-mage .sig he had chosen to adopt at the time (there was
something very friendly and reassuring about that choice; it was as if he
were saying, I'm a dreamer too, like you: we're all together here).
Well, one doesn't stay a newbie for long. Novelty wears off with doing.
There was that Porco rite-of-passage thing. Taking on the kooks briefly,
even in fun, seems part of the necessary process of maturing, of learning
to see past them and onto the more relevant things Usenet has to offer.
Suddenly, they cease to seem the imponent figures they were when one
thought there might be some meaning to them. Day by day, year by year,
they become smaller and smaller in one's regard, still good for
occassional comic relief but little else.
One also increasingly wonders about the folks --other than the newbies--
who seem to have something to prove by taking issue with them over and
over as if they could be changed to fit our liking. Been there, done
that, got the point, moved on. Mediocrity --insecure, self-pitying and
self-absorbed, hopelessly vulgar and unable to stand the sight of its own
face on the magic looking glass of life, and bitterly resentful of the
attention accorded to those who make a better way for themselves and for
others even as it unsuccessfully tries to bring them down to be perceived
as being on her own level-- has always been there, just as its opposite.
It raises one heck of a ruckus sometimes, but it is mostly forgotten ten
seconds after the noise is gone, for what mark has it made to be
remembered by? That is the way of things and it will not be changed.
Why take it so very seriously when its self-representation can often be
so outrageously comical? As a fond Jedi once noted, one's focus tends to
determine one's reality.
Gharlane, on the other hand, seems only to gain in stature as the days,
months, and years go by. One slowly learns many things about him, not the
least of which is that he is indeed quite as human and as fallible as the
rest of us. But that makes his class, humour, sheer imagination,
intelligence and scope, as well as the uncompromising and painstakingly
made-to-seem easy elegance and style of his posts, all the more breathtaking.
Even brighter than all that shone his humanity. Even when he "flamed", he
often complimented and there was generosity, kindness and plenty of
humour in his flames, a conspiratorial and fond chuckle tongue-in-cheek,
addressed at the person getting flamed. This might well be lost on the
target. Gharlane was often misunderstood, particularly if the person on
the other end lacked a sense of humour, aimed to monopolize the attention,
or took him/herself too seriously. Often he was despised by those overly
defensive (what they thought they were doing in Usenet, Ghod knows!) or by
those who couldn't stand the calibre and elegance of his posts because it
made theirs so laughable and pitiful in comparison.
But spite, viciousness, genuine malice, I don't recall seeing much of
that in anything he ever posted. It was sheer folly, if you were not
secure enough to be able to laugh heartily at yourself, to try to take on
Gharlane of Eddore, but even the Eddorian's graciousness could not make up
for the proportion of sheer stupidity that is and will likely remain a
part and parcel of Usenet. And of course, Gharlane also took a very
joyful and childlike glee in playfully teasing those who took themselves
way too seriously, at many levels quite often beyond their grasp. This
was rarely if ever done in a mean or petty fashion (maybe somebody can
recall otherwise; I certainly cannot). It is something that I think many
of us can relate to, and which certainly did enjoy. Whenever we were the
butt of his gentle irony, it was always something of an opportunity to
learn and to stretch oneself futher.
Ms. Ware has very perceptively said that in the end, Gharlane was simply a
romantic. This is such an apt observation! Both him, and Cronan. One
had to die at such an unbeareably early age, even for a romantic. The
other, being a romantic, perhaps could only live to such a relatively
advanced age by often pretending (not least to himself than others) to be
a cynic (the best amongst us are perhaps those rare and supremely wise
ones who like Gharlane manage to keep intact the inner heart of a child
throughout an entire lifetime). But most decent folks around always
intuited that underneath its brainpower and semblance of Eddorian
cynicism, Gharlane always nurtured a very pure Arisian heart (sorry, dear
friend, that the truth about your inner nature had to constitute such an
awful insult to your proud Eddorian heritage *grin* ;)
Then there is his oft remarked generosity and graciousness through email.
No matter how busy he might be, Gharlane would always spent the time to
answer a thoughful or even a silly email. His answers were always
informative and quirkly humorous, often fascinating, invariably patient.
Given half a chance, he would never fail to seek and find the best in
others, even people who disagreed and disputed with him.
As I suspect most of us have, I have come to take his presence so much for
granted as part of the Usenet I know that it is very hard now to fathom
the immensity of the vacuum that is left behind, both on the newsgroups
and in one's inbox.
On a personal level, it goes so much deeper than this. Until only a few
days ago, I was convinced that I posted to Usenet mostly to please myself,
to be appreciated on the whacky level at which I write by a few people who
I consider as friends, and to enjoy confusing everybody else. Lately I've
come to realize that nearly everything I posted was, at some level,
dedicated to Gharlane, wondering what he would think of it, pretty much
like a son might tend to do with a father. I never had the chance to tell
him this because I didn't consciously realize it until now. It is an odd
realization for a mostly grown man well over fourty to have, and to admit
publically. FWIW, there it is.
A great deal of this has to do with gratitude. Gratitude for the endless
encouragement, friendship and information that he bestowed upon me (and
upon so many others) since my early days as an insignificant newbie, for
the many times in which he either inspired me or pointed me in the right
direction, all of which has helped to take me to where I am right now.
Gratitude for being such a giving man with so many countless others.
Though I think I corresponded as best I could, although I feel that I was
a better friend to him than I ever got to be to Cronan FI, I wish and I
always will that I had done more for him. I wanted him to be proud of
what I had and would continue to accomplish thanks in such large measure
to him.
This is my own selfish and petty sense of loss in all this. That and the
fact that I never got share with him those Stan Rogers tapes I had been
meaning to send him, that Canadian beer I had promised, that I never got
to see him again and that me and Beth never got to take him out to dinner
and allow him to feel the great affection we both felt for him. But this
is rather a tiny thing in the homage we wish to pay to his beautiful
memory, now and throughout the rest of our lives.
Lastly, about the David G. Potter thing...
I think this must have been the worst kept secret around Usenet. Many of
us had found even back in our newbie days, before even the Gary Farber
post made from LACon III on September of 96. He knew we knew and
pretended he didn't and we pretended in turn, both publically and in
person. Ultimately, those of us on-line knew him and thought of him
mostly as Gharlane. It is plentifully clear that as such, he has made one
hell of a mark and will always be remembered fondly.
I am infinitely grateful for the gift of having known him as Gharlane and
will gladly take what I've been given, since it is more than I could have
ever hoped for. But having read here the testimony of many others who
knew David G. Potter personally in their everyday lives, I am also very
happy to see that David, eccentric, ingenious, fallible, gifted and
infinitely human, was so well loved and will be remembered just as fondly
by those who knew him and who shared his life offline.
Either way, he has left us all with a very fond smile on our faces at the
memory of him, to last for a lifetime. What greater gift could one ever
hope to leave behind? We celebrate both Gharlane and David, the man who
brought the irascible and gifted Eddorian to life for us. Who knows where
one left off and became the other? More importantly, who cares? *grin*
Will we ever miss you now, you blessed, quirky, gifted and lovable little
brain in a jar... (and my your undying light continue to blaze a path
through every realm you get to grace with the fond laughter which defines
your immortal soul)
Cheers,
Jaime
les ungerleider
to read well-written words).
With that mea culpa out of the way, I too have waited before
posting about my relationship with GoE. We exchanged
e-mail on a daily basis on lots of subjects, especially puns. We
also spoke on the phone, when I felt that I was no
expressing myself well with words. Since I have been in
computing for 40 years, we had a lot of 'war' stories in
common. He explained DUNE to my wife (she is not a
science fiction fan, although I got her hooked on B5).
My wife is in SF this week on a work-related trip. I was going
to join her for the weekend and play tourist. We had plans to
meet GoE for lunch next Saturday. I have research material
that he wanted to borrow, and it was a good excuse to meet
Now it will not happen. A tree has been planted in his
memory. When I pass on, the research material will be given
to a research library in both our names, something we agreed
to only last month.
Last year I ran for the state legislature, GoE helped with
editing, contributing, and keeping me honest with my
position papers, news releases and responses to various
groups that wanted more information on where I stood on
issues. His help was always on target.
Some folks are posting that he was 54, as I understood it, he
was 57 (I'm 58, and we kidded about our ages). He was
always a gentle-man when he answered questions by my wife.
In our correspondence, he was never petty, vindictive or
nasty.
This community (usenet, science fiction, personal circle of
friends, etc.) will be less now that GoE has gone. I keep
wanting to CC items, and then remember that I will not get
an insightful response if I do. . .
--
Les Ungerleider
(please use SLU@pupik.(dot).com)
The Internet is a haystack full of needles...
The above comments reflect only my views and do not commit
my employer, my wife or my dog to any positions or actions.
B. Durbin
> was 57 (I'm 58, and we kidded about our ages). He was
> always a gentle-man when he answered questions by my wife.
> In our correspondence, he was never petty, vindictive or
> nasty.
Vinay Pandey
> This community (usenet, science fiction, personal circle of
> friends, etc.) will be less now that GoE has gone. I keep
> wanting to CC items, and then remember that I will not get
> an insightful response if I do. . .
Just wanted to highlight this bit.
And once more hope that some day I can make Sr De Eddore
proud...If I learn the smallest fration of what you tried to
teach, I'll be that much smarter by it.