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Continuum Explained - Season 2 Finale Cliffhangers (SPOILERS)
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KalElFan
Aug 13, 2013, 12:10:56 PM8/13/13
to
SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
B
E
L
O
W
SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
This will be airing in the U.S. on Friday, August 30. It's an
extremely busy episode, filled with "twisty goodness".
We learn the Freelancers are Time Cops.
We learn that Time Travel is not just something that Older
Alec v1 invented as his "life's work," but that it became the
"Family Business". Specifically, Young Alec learns that Escher
is his father and Jason is his son. So the "Family Business"
spans at least three generations that we know of.
In the Cliffhanger, the Freelancers have captured Kiera and
Jason, as well as any remaining Liber8 members. The three
Freelancers allude to Young Alec still being on the loose, but
mention the "danger" being over "in this timeline".
In other words, the Freelancers (not the brightest bulbs from
the future mind you :-)) seem to think that they've won the time
war, i.e. preserved their v1 of the timeline. Perhaps they think
that Young Alec has fled to some unstable, easily eliminated
or marginalized timeline. In fact, Young Alec has used the Time
Travel Device to go back and save his girlfriend Emily, who was
killed a few hours prior (at the end of the previous episode) by
one of the Freelancers.
Escher, Alec's father, sees his son escape and smiles. He almost
certainly realizes that Alec has probably set the coordinates to go
back to see Escher's younger self, prior to Emily's death. From
"then" they would have the ability to alter not just Emily's death
but also at least some of the success that the Freelancers think
they've had. Which things get reset and which remain in place
in the Season 3 premiere is something the writers have a great
deal of leeway on.
For example, Carlos either joins or infiltrates Liber8 at the end.
He and Betty (the Liber8 mole) visit Liber8 inspirational leader
Julian / Theseus (step-brother of Alec) and his mother. It seems
to me this is a storyline the writers probably intend to keep and
here's why...
Carlos has arguably become the strongest moral compass in
the show the last several episodes. He sees how corrupt the
police force has become, and freed Kiera realizing she'd been
framed. He was on the right moral side in the torture and other
scenarios. He may not be, in fact I doubt he is, sold on Liber8
completely. But he figures that's his most useful place to be
and possibly do some good. I can't see why the writers would
undo the natural progression of this Carlos story.
Travis appeared to have been killed by Kiera, but then we see
him in one of the cages on a ventilator. Chen is already a "dead"
Liber8 member turned Freelancer, and Stefan was the other "dead"
Liber8 member whose body the Freelancers stole. Stefan is also
in a cage on a ventilator. So we now have these three "dead" ex-
Liber8 members who are or may be about to become Freelancers:
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Curtis_Chen
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Stefan_Jaworski
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Travis_Verta
A fourth dead Liber8 member, Kagame, was vaporized in his
2012 suicide bombing so the Freelancers presumably could
not salvage his body.
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Edouard_Kagame
Travis and Jaworski had a conversation about the afterlife
in 2077, before their execution. So there'd be some irony in
their escaping to the 2012 past, only to be killed and then be
"resurrected" as Zombie-Freelancers. :-) Young Alec had a
"reanimating the dead" line in an earlier episode as well,
alluding to it as cool or some such. With The Walking Dead's
success, and that Game of Thrones finale last season, and
World War Z, and mock Zombie Apocalypse emergency drills
and all the rest, I think the writers are probably running with
that in some form. :-)
Perhaps the "Travis is Dead" shtick should also continue in
every season finale from here on in. He appeared to be dead
in the Season 1 finale as well, after Sonya shot him pursuant
to Kagame's orders (before he died). I thought the character
was one-note enough (killing machine) that he should have
stayed dead then. He was better used in Season 2 though,
and potentially even better in Season 3 if he's a Freelancer.
Maybe we'll learn that they aren't pure Zombie and it's just
a combination of medical tech and mind control that "recruits"
them as Freelancers. After he dies again in the Season 3
finale, maybe Travis becomes Born Again Liber8 or something
else. :-) Again, I just don't think they want to reset that aspect
of the Season 2 finale.
Likewise, Dillon at "City Protective Services" and his heavy-
handed tactics. Escher's company, Piron, has started that
up much earlier than it originally was in the v1 timeline, and
I suspect it's part of the plan. CPS and its tactics are very
visible, allowing Julian/Theseus, Liber8 and its followers
to gain more traction sooner. Meanwhile, Escher and Young
Alec have a head start on Time Travel in v2, and therefore a
stronger ability to combat the Freelancers. So that and CPS
ought to be a Keeper in terms of the over-arching story of
trying to avert the Awful Future.
As for resets...
I think Saving Emily is a no-brainer example, and also
rescuing Kiera. Probably also Jason, and the remaining
three "alive" Liber8: Sonya, Garza and (ex-Liber8) Kellog.
They could leave Lucas in the loony bin for a bit and if he
escapes retain his ability to be visited by Kagame. :-) In
that way the show can still retain all the orginal Liber8
for guest spots. :-)
The "twisty goodness" follow-up from the last post 4 of 5
should also happen soon into Season 3 IMO. If Escher is
Kiera Cameron's young son in 2077, Sam Cameron but all
grown up, Kiera will be the Matriarch of the "Family Business"
started by Older Alec's "life's work" in 2077. Her son, her
grandson, and her great grandson are all in the loop. Young
Alec should perhaps also be figuring it out now that he knows
Escher is his father. Others online seem to be seeing this
twist coming now so I doubt it makes sense to withhold it
much longer.
Now a couple of things I haven't quite got figured out...
In an early Season 2 episode, we saw Older Alec in 2077 do
another "Transmit Data" into Kiera's CMR, and/or a dream
sequence that was the same as the Season 2 cliffhanger. It
was Kiera geting pumped up with drugs and imprisoned.
Was Older Alec preparing or warning her about the Freelancer
threat she'd be facing? If so, how would Older Alec have even
known about it? Presumably, the same way he knew of the
Freelancers existence in the Season 2 finale. It may be the
standard way Freelancers capture Time Criminals and Older
Alec had seen it from some other CPS officer's CMR?
The other question I have is the Freelancers wanting to shoot
Kiera because she was the "glitch" in the Continuum. If
they knew she was the Matriarch, it still wouldn't much help
them to kill her since Sam Cameron aka Escher has aleady
been born in the future and traveled back. Killing Kiera will
not prevent Sam from being born, and in fact Freelancers,
one would think, don't WANT Older Alec himself to be killed
because they need Time Travel to be invented.
So I take their wanting to "kill" Kiera as preventing any MORE
"damage" to the timeline from their point of view. They
want to undo damage already done (Mission Accomplished
they think), and prevent any more of it.
Even so, they probably weren't "killing" Kiera at all since we
see at the end that they've captured her. In other words,
Freelancers don't seem to execute time-traveling criminals
they capture them. If they kill them or they otherwise get
killed by other than natural means, they reanimate them
(unless, like Kagame, that's impossible because he was
vaporized). The only people they've killed, that I can recall,
is the CSIS agent and Emily. Perhaps various other 2012 red
shirt types as well, considered unimportant to the timeline
or historically on record as dying?
It raises the possibility that the Freelancers very much have
a "moral" code from their point of view. Warren mentioned
the "oath" they took to protect the timeline. The lady in 2077
tells Older Alec that they're a "sect" and "claim a dogmatic
responsibility to intervene." So the same idea as the oath
basically.
Sect, oath, protect, dogma, etc., combined with being "saved"
after death and some mind control thrown in. That extends
the Freelancers = Fate or Destiny metaphor to a moral, even
religious code of sorts. They could see themselves as God's
Will perhaps, as they enforce Fate or Destiny.
It'll be interesting to see how the Season 2 finale on Aug. 30
is received in the U.S., online and also in terms of the ratings
to start next season. The 18-49 ratings seemed to peak two
weeks ago, just before SyFy announced the Season 3 pickup
(13 episodes, Showcase had already renewed it in Canada).
Sharknado week, specifically advertising of Continuum, may
have helped the peak, but arguably Kiera's dubious actions
for example could have been starting to weigh.
The first reaction to the Season 2 finale is I think almost
unavoidably negative in the "overload" sense. There's just
so much that seems to change, get upended and so on...
Emily dead, Carlos joining Liber8, the x 2 Family Business
revelations, Freelancers being Time Cops and capturing
so many at the end (a scene difficult to understand and
easy to miss the details of). Too bad if it ends up hurting
the series, because I think the Greatness elements of it
are still very much there and indeed strengthened. They
just may have got a bit too carried away with themselves
trying to make the Cliffhangers a "must come back next
season" hook, as many of these things are intended to be.
and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
B
E
L
O
W
SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
This will be airing in the U.S. on Friday, August 30. It's an
extremely busy episode, filled with "twisty goodness".
We learn the Freelancers are Time Cops.
We learn that Time Travel is not just something that Older
Alec v1 invented as his "life's work," but that it became the
"Family Business". Specifically, Young Alec learns that Escher
is his father and Jason is his son. So the "Family Business"
spans at least three generations that we know of.
In the Cliffhanger, the Freelancers have captured Kiera and
Jason, as well as any remaining Liber8 members. The three
Freelancers allude to Young Alec still being on the loose, but
mention the "danger" being over "in this timeline".
In other words, the Freelancers (not the brightest bulbs from
the future mind you :-)) seem to think that they've won the time
war, i.e. preserved their v1 of the timeline. Perhaps they think
that Young Alec has fled to some unstable, easily eliminated
or marginalized timeline. In fact, Young Alec has used the Time
Travel Device to go back and save his girlfriend Emily, who was
killed a few hours prior (at the end of the previous episode) by
one of the Freelancers.
Escher, Alec's father, sees his son escape and smiles. He almost
certainly realizes that Alec has probably set the coordinates to go
back to see Escher's younger self, prior to Emily's death. From
"then" they would have the ability to alter not just Emily's death
but also at least some of the success that the Freelancers think
they've had. Which things get reset and which remain in place
in the Season 3 premiere is something the writers have a great
deal of leeway on.
For example, Carlos either joins or infiltrates Liber8 at the end.
He and Betty (the Liber8 mole) visit Liber8 inspirational leader
Julian / Theseus (step-brother of Alec) and his mother. It seems
to me this is a storyline the writers probably intend to keep and
here's why...
Carlos has arguably become the strongest moral compass in
the show the last several episodes. He sees how corrupt the
police force has become, and freed Kiera realizing she'd been
framed. He was on the right moral side in the torture and other
scenarios. He may not be, in fact I doubt he is, sold on Liber8
completely. But he figures that's his most useful place to be
and possibly do some good. I can't see why the writers would
undo the natural progression of this Carlos story.
Travis appeared to have been killed by Kiera, but then we see
him in one of the cages on a ventilator. Chen is already a "dead"
Liber8 member turned Freelancer, and Stefan was the other "dead"
Liber8 member whose body the Freelancers stole. Stefan is also
in a cage on a ventilator. So we now have these three "dead" ex-
Liber8 members who are or may be about to become Freelancers:
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Curtis_Chen
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Stefan_Jaworski
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Travis_Verta
A fourth dead Liber8 member, Kagame, was vaporized in his
2012 suicide bombing so the Freelancers presumably could
not salvage his body.
http://continuum.wikia.com/wiki/Edouard_Kagame
Travis and Jaworski had a conversation about the afterlife
in 2077, before their execution. So there'd be some irony in
their escaping to the 2012 past, only to be killed and then be
"resurrected" as Zombie-Freelancers. :-) Young Alec had a
"reanimating the dead" line in an earlier episode as well,
alluding to it as cool or some such. With The Walking Dead's
success, and that Game of Thrones finale last season, and
World War Z, and mock Zombie Apocalypse emergency drills
and all the rest, I think the writers are probably running with
that in some form. :-)
Perhaps the "Travis is Dead" shtick should also continue in
every season finale from here on in. He appeared to be dead
in the Season 1 finale as well, after Sonya shot him pursuant
to Kagame's orders (before he died). I thought the character
was one-note enough (killing machine) that he should have
stayed dead then. He was better used in Season 2 though,
and potentially even better in Season 3 if he's a Freelancer.
Maybe we'll learn that they aren't pure Zombie and it's just
a combination of medical tech and mind control that "recruits"
them as Freelancers. After he dies again in the Season 3
finale, maybe Travis becomes Born Again Liber8 or something
else. :-) Again, I just don't think they want to reset that aspect
of the Season 2 finale.
Likewise, Dillon at "City Protective Services" and his heavy-
handed tactics. Escher's company, Piron, has started that
up much earlier than it originally was in the v1 timeline, and
I suspect it's part of the plan. CPS and its tactics are very
visible, allowing Julian/Theseus, Liber8 and its followers
to gain more traction sooner. Meanwhile, Escher and Young
Alec have a head start on Time Travel in v2, and therefore a
stronger ability to combat the Freelancers. So that and CPS
ought to be a Keeper in terms of the over-arching story of
trying to avert the Awful Future.
As for resets...
I think Saving Emily is a no-brainer example, and also
rescuing Kiera. Probably also Jason, and the remaining
three "alive" Liber8: Sonya, Garza and (ex-Liber8) Kellog.
They could leave Lucas in the loony bin for a bit and if he
escapes retain his ability to be visited by Kagame. :-) In
that way the show can still retain all the orginal Liber8
for guest spots. :-)
The "twisty goodness" follow-up from the last post 4 of 5
should also happen soon into Season 3 IMO. If Escher is
Kiera Cameron's young son in 2077, Sam Cameron but all
grown up, Kiera will be the Matriarch of the "Family Business"
started by Older Alec's "life's work" in 2077. Her son, her
grandson, and her great grandson are all in the loop. Young
Alec should perhaps also be figuring it out now that he knows
Escher is his father. Others online seem to be seeing this
twist coming now so I doubt it makes sense to withhold it
much longer.
Now a couple of things I haven't quite got figured out...
In an early Season 2 episode, we saw Older Alec in 2077 do
another "Transmit Data" into Kiera's CMR, and/or a dream
sequence that was the same as the Season 2 cliffhanger. It
was Kiera geting pumped up with drugs and imprisoned.
Was Older Alec preparing or warning her about the Freelancer
threat she'd be facing? If so, how would Older Alec have even
known about it? Presumably, the same way he knew of the
Freelancers existence in the Season 2 finale. It may be the
standard way Freelancers capture Time Criminals and Older
Alec had seen it from some other CPS officer's CMR?
The other question I have is the Freelancers wanting to shoot
Kiera because she was the "glitch" in the Continuum. If
they knew she was the Matriarch, it still wouldn't much help
them to kill her since Sam Cameron aka Escher has aleady
been born in the future and traveled back. Killing Kiera will
not prevent Sam from being born, and in fact Freelancers,
one would think, don't WANT Older Alec himself to be killed
because they need Time Travel to be invented.
So I take their wanting to "kill" Kiera as preventing any MORE
"damage" to the timeline from their point of view. They
want to undo damage already done (Mission Accomplished
they think), and prevent any more of it.
Even so, they probably weren't "killing" Kiera at all since we
see at the end that they've captured her. In other words,
Freelancers don't seem to execute time-traveling criminals
they capture them. If they kill them or they otherwise get
killed by other than natural means, they reanimate them
(unless, like Kagame, that's impossible because he was
vaporized). The only people they've killed, that I can recall,
is the CSIS agent and Emily. Perhaps various other 2012 red
shirt types as well, considered unimportant to the timeline
or historically on record as dying?
It raises the possibility that the Freelancers very much have
a "moral" code from their point of view. Warren mentioned
the "oath" they took to protect the timeline. The lady in 2077
tells Older Alec that they're a "sect" and "claim a dogmatic
responsibility to intervene." So the same idea as the oath
basically.
Sect, oath, protect, dogma, etc., combined with being "saved"
after death and some mind control thrown in. That extends
the Freelancers = Fate or Destiny metaphor to a moral, even
religious code of sorts. They could see themselves as God's
Will perhaps, as they enforce Fate or Destiny.
It'll be interesting to see how the Season 2 finale on Aug. 30
is received in the U.S., online and also in terms of the ratings
to start next season. The 18-49 ratings seemed to peak two
weeks ago, just before SyFy announced the Season 3 pickup
(13 episodes, Showcase had already renewed it in Canada).
Sharknado week, specifically advertising of Continuum, may
have helped the peak, but arguably Kiera's dubious actions
for example could have been starting to weigh.
The first reaction to the Season 2 finale is I think almost
unavoidably negative in the "overload" sense. There's just
so much that seems to change, get upended and so on...
Emily dead, Carlos joining Liber8, the x 2 Family Business
revelations, Freelancers being Time Cops and capturing
so many at the end (a scene difficult to understand and
easy to miss the details of). Too bad if it ends up hurting
the series, because I think the Greatness elements of it
are still very much there and indeed strengthened. They
just may have got a bit too carried away with themselves
trying to make the Cliffhangers a "must come back next
season" hook, as many of these things are intended to be.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Aug 31, 2013, 7:35:07 PM8/31/13
to
In article <b6v45p...@mid.individual.net>,
I must have missed it, but where, when and how did we get conclusive
proof that Escher is Alec's father...Alec at least did a DNA on Jason,
why wouldn't he do that on Escher or for that matter Kiera
proof that Escher is Alec's father...Alec at least did a DNA on Jason,
why wouldn't he do that on Escher or for that matter Kiera
Dano
Sep 1, 2013, 3:05:06 AM9/1/13
to
"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote in message
news:atlas-bugged-2DF7...@free.teranews.com...
========================================
I'm not completely convinced about Escher...but my guess is that he IS
Alec's father. If for no other reason than his lie would never hold up if
it is a lie. The DNA familial match for Jason was because he is Alec's
son...not his dad as he had thought. There was that family
photo...presumably of Escher when he still had hair.
news:atlas-bugged-2DF7...@free.teranews.com...
I'm not completely convinced about Escher...but my guess is that he IS
Alec's father. If for no other reason than his lie would never hold up if
it is a lie. The DNA familial match for Jason was because he is Alec's
son...not his dad as he had thought. There was that family
photo...presumably of Escher when he still had hair.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 1, 2013, 11:28:56 AM9/1/13
to
KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>S
>
>B
>E
>L
>O
>W
>SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
>This will be airing in the U.S. on Friday, August 30. It's an
>extremely busy episode, filled with "twisty goodness".
>We learn the Freelancers are Time Cops.
Not really. They're more like religious fanatics. Somehow, their time travel
>SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>S
>
>B
>E
>L
>O
>W
>SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
>This will be airing in the U.S. on Friday, August 30. It's an
>extremely busy episode, filled with "twisty goodness".
>We learn the Freelancers are Time Cops.
doesn't alter the time line? Only a fanatic believes that. We don't know
what kind of future they're trying to preserve.
The main thing we learned was how critical it was to Alec that Kiera's
husband was reporting on her, because it Alec hadn't decided until the
very last minute that she'd be sent back. I wonder if the other future cop
Kiera encountered in the past was one of Alec's candidates, or if she really
was sent back entirely accidentally. You'd think Alec would have had several
candidates in mind.
>We learn that Time Travel is not just something that Older
>Alec v1 invented as his "life's work," but that it became the
>"Family Business". Specifically, Young Alec learns that Escher
>is his father and Jason is his son. So the "Family Business"
>spans at least three generations that we know of.
Alex that his existence is paradoxical to control him. Jason could be
Alec's father; Alec may have lied to him.
I don't see how the overall plot works if one of the central character's
entire existence is paradoxical. The solution to the problem of the boluxed
up future becomes completely straightforward, then: Prevent his father from
travelling back in time to have a kid in the past. Then the timeline unfolds
in the original fucked-up way it should have.
There's a brother-against-brother story that you're failing to account for.
Alec has a totally warped view of Julian. Quite a lot of the bad future
unfolded the way it did because Alec hated Julian, making Julian the
fall guy for certain evil things that Alec was responsible for. It's not
like Alec ever admitted to his crimes so Julian would have been freed
from prison. Nah, erasing the time line is so much better because Alec
never has to come clean. Alec never told anybody, not Kiera, not Jason,
not Jasmine. Maybe Alec confessed all of his crimes to Kagame, but we'll
never know as he was killed in the past.
Just as Alec sent Jasmine back as a contingency to assasinate him in the
past, I think there's another contingency in which he could have Julian killed,
or he hoped Kiera would be his dupe in that regard.
>In the Cliffhanger, the Freelancers have captured Kiera and
>Jason, as well as any remaining Liber8 members. The three
>Freelancers allude to Young Alec still being on the loose, but
>mention the "danger" being over "in this timeline".
we were supposed to assume was Jasmine. Who else did you see?
>Carlos has arguably become the strongest moral compass in
>the show the last several episodes. He sees how corrupt the
>police force has become, and freed Kiera realizing she'd been
>framed. He was on the right moral side in the torture and other
>scenarios. He may not be, in fact I doubt he is, sold on Liber8
>completely. But he figures that's his most useful place to be
>and possibly do some good. I can't see why the writers would
>undo the natural progression of this Carlos story.
she broke Julian. If Carlos is setting himself up to be a father figure,
good luck with that.
>Travis appeared to have been killed by Kiera, . . .
Not by comic book law. In any event, since the super suit prevents bullets
from penetrating, it probably has the ability to mitigate brain injury to
some extent from a great fall.
You didn't comment on one thing that we learned that Kiera knew: Super suits
aren't unisex.
>Maybe we'll learn that they aren't pure Zombie and it's just
>a combination of medical tech and mind control that "recruits"
>them as Freelancers. After he dies again in the Season 3
>finale, maybe Travis becomes Born Again Liber8 or something
>else. :-) Again, I just don't think they want to reset that aspect
>of the Season 2 finale.
fanatics, since you're arguing that they use cult-like indoctrination
methods on recruits. Who is their charismatic leader?
>Likewise, Dillon at "City Protective Services" and his heavy-
>handed tactics.
supposed to believe that in the weeks that the character was absent from
the program (was Brian Markinson making a movie?) that Escher had
indoctrinated him? He's got an all-new personality.
Am I the only one who finds it confusing that there's a character named
Dillon and an actor named Dillon on this show?
>Now a couple of things I haven't quite got figured out...
>In an early Season 2 episode, we saw Older Alec in 2077 do
>another "Transmit Data" into Kiera's CMR, and/or a dream
>sequence that was the same as the Season 2 cliffhanger. It
>was Kiera geting pumped up with drugs and imprisoned.
a way that other characters aren't, so he had to keep updating Kiera. He's
really not nice to her at all.
The explanation will be magical, not scifi.
>The first reaction to the Season 2 finale is I think almost
>unavoidably negative in the "overload" sense. There's just
>so much that seems to change, get upended and so on...
all the writers around so they stop writing excessively plot heavy
episodes as the first and last episode of seasons, with too little
happening in between. Not just on this program, on every program.
I'm starting a Freelance program of my own.
David Johnston
Sep 1, 2013, 11:44:42 AM9/1/13
to
On 9/1/2013 9:28 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>> S
>>
>> B
>> E
>> L
>> O
>> W
>
>> SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
>
>> This will be airing in the U.S. on Friday, August 30. It's an
>> extremely busy episode, filled with "twisty goodness".
>
>> We learn the Freelancers are Time Cops.
>
> Not really. They're more like religious fanatics. Somehow, their time travel
> doesn't alter the time line?
Continuum clearly now has a rubber timeline where it takes a lot of
> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>> S
>>
>> B
>> E
>> L
>> O
>> W
>
>> SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
>
>> This will be airing in the U.S. on Friday, August 30. It's an
>> extremely busy episode, filled with "twisty goodness".
>
>> We learn the Freelancers are Time Cops.
>
> Not really. They're more like religious fanatics. Somehow, their time travel
> doesn't alter the time line?
effort to change anything about it. Otherwise the future would have
long since been erased by the time travelling and replaced with another
that none of the players would recognize.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 1, 2013, 11:49:58 AM9/1/13
to
with the timeline in which all viewers of the program have seen the same
episodes, not the ones that play in your head?
The rest of us have not seen an episode with a future altered due to
actions taken by time travelers to the past. The future they keep showing
us is backstory.
Also, Johnston, would it kill you to stop quoting selectively? You never
indicate that you elided quotes. Given how frequently you quote selectively
to remove necessary context and change the meaning of what your opponent
has written, there's no good reason for a reader to assume that you're
anything but dishonest when quoting.
David Johnston
Sep 1, 2013, 12:02:35 PM9/1/13
to
this is not at all the first go around of this carousel.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Sep 1, 2013, 3:19:43 PM9/1/13
to
In article <kvuov8$3tk$1...@dont-email.me>, "Dano" <janea...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
yes, because Escher couldn't afford someone to photoshop it?
wrote:
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 1, 2013, 4:31:48 PM9/1/13
to
indicating that you've done so, Johnston?
The rest of us haven't seen the episode you've imagined. I can repeat that
again if you still don't grasp it.
Dano
Sep 1, 2013, 7:21:58 PM9/1/13
to
"David Johnston" wrote in message news:kvvndb$f2k$1...@dont-email.me...
=========================================
And how do you (or WOULD you) know it hasn't been?
And how do you (or WOULD you) know it hasn't been?
Dano
Sep 1, 2013, 7:27:13 PM9/1/13
to
"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote in message
news:atlas-bugged-DCEB...@free.teranews.com...
Well as I said...I'm not convinced. My own guess is that perhaps Alec is
not either. He could still have been playing along. Wasn't Jason in one of
those cells at the end? I wish I hadn't deleted the episode. If he
was...well dear old Granddad locked him up? And why would he be in such
fear of Escher?
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Sep 1, 2013, 7:50:56 PM9/1/13
to
In article <l00igp$6rk$2...@dont-email.me>, "Dano" <janea...@yahoo.com>
young Alec really shouldn't trust anyone. my guess is next season Kiera
will somehow "escape" and re-establish contact with him only at the end
of that season to be shown as having betrayed him
will somehow "escape" and re-establish contact with him only at the end
of that season to be shown as having betrayed him
David Johnston
Sep 1, 2013, 11:18:27 PM9/1/13
to
Dano
Sep 2, 2013, 12:43:26 AM9/2/13
to
"Malcom "Mal" Reynolds" wrote in message
news:atlas-bugged-5713...@free.teranews.com...
Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to himself
was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
Dano
Sep 2, 2013, 12:47:33 AM9/2/13
to
"David Johnston" wrote in message news:l01022$qkd$2...@dont-email.me...
==========================================
Hmmm...because he experienced everything he went through with everyone he
met that travelled through time eh? Well then he should have also known
about Jason and dear old dad. Was that in the message to himself through
time do you suppose? Or did he want his younger self to go through all of
this...including the death of his young first love? See? He also would
have known about that...and might have tried to save her.
Hmmm...because he experienced everything he went through with everyone he
met that travelled through time eh? Well then he should have also known
about Jason and dear old dad. Was that in the message to himself through
time do you suppose? Or did he want his younger self to go through all of
this...including the death of his young first love? See? He also would
have known about that...and might have tried to save her.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 12:51:18 AM9/2/13
to
had committed numerous attrocities, so Kiera hadn't been sent back.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 2:38:11 AM9/2/13
to
that Old Alec never experienced, enough to be proof to his hitgirl that
history has changed and he might turn out differently. So not
_everything_.
Well then he should have also
> through time do you suppose? Or did he want his younger self to go
> through all of this...including the death of his young first love?
> See? He also would have known about that...and might have tried to save
> her.
>
As I said, Emily seems to be a new addition to the mix. But in a
> through all of this...including the death of his young first love?
> See? He also would have known about that...and might have tried to save
> her.
>
brittle timeline, the simple appearance of a time traveller would cause
expanding ripples of historical change. The grand children of those
presently alive would never exist. And I don't think they're going to
go with "Kiera and the others have already changed history so that she
no longer has a son to go back to or anyone who remembers her."
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 2:39:12 AM9/2/13
to
Dano
Sep 2, 2013, 11:37:22 AM9/2/13
to
"David Johnston" wrote in message news:l01bok$5q8$1...@dont-email.me...
==========================================
Unless we go "back to the future" (where have I heard that before?) we have
absolutely no way to know what...if anything has changed. And if it
has...then Old Alec wouldn't even know. If it changes to the good (whatever
THAT might be) then Old Alec might never set the wheels in motion to send
them all back to change things in the first place. What effect would THAT
then have? So I can't see that anything could actually change anything
ultimately. I prefer the theory of multiple (perhaps even infinite)
timelines...that everything that COULD happen, already has...and will. This
also goes to my belief that the very idea of "infinity"...that seems a
concept we don't/can't fully grasp...means if all things are
possible...aren't they also just as probable?
Unless we go "back to the future" (where have I heard that before?) we have
absolutely no way to know what...if anything has changed. And if it
has...then Old Alec wouldn't even know. If it changes to the good (whatever
THAT might be) then Old Alec might never set the wheels in motion to send
them all back to change things in the first place. What effect would THAT
then have? So I can't see that anything could actually change anything
ultimately. I prefer the theory of multiple (perhaps even infinite)
timelines...that everything that COULD happen, already has...and will. This
also goes to my belief that the very idea of "infinity"...that seems a
concept we don't/can't fully grasp...means if all things are
possible...aren't they also just as probable?
Dano
Sep 2, 2013, 11:39:16 AM9/2/13
to
"David Johnston" wrote in message news:l01bqf$5q8$2...@dont-email.me...
===================================================
I think he got that backasswards.
I think he got that backasswards.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 11:53:11 AM9/2/13
to
your eyes open, you'd have noticed that the future is backstory and past
isn't prologue, same as everyone else.
Ian J. Ball
Sep 2, 2013, 12:21:03 PM9/2/13
to
In article <atlas-bugged-5713...@free.teranews.com>,
"present", and he's directly responsible for her time-travel in the
future.
If I was Keira, I couldn't throw everyone, except maybe Carlos, under
the bus fast enough! Especially Alec!!
--
"Surf-crazed aliens... Of course." - Amber, "Alien Surf Girls",
Episode #1.1, "Wipeout".
Wait a minute... "Of course"?! "*Of course*"?!! Did I miss a step here??!!
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" <atlas-...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> In article <l00igp$6rk$2...@dont-email.me>, "Dano" <janea...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > In article <b6v45p...@mid.individual.net>,
> > > "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
> > > > and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
> > > >
> > > > S
> > > > P
> > > > O
> > > > I
> > > > L
> > > > E
> > > > R
> > > > S
> > > >
> > > > B
> > > > E
> > > > L
> > > > O
> > > > W
> > > >
> > > > SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
> >
> In article <l00igp$6rk$2...@dont-email.me>, "Dano" <janea...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > In article <b6v45p...@mid.individual.net>,
> > > "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
> > > > and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
> > > >
> > > > S
> > > > P
> > > > O
> > > > I
> > > > L
> > > > E
> > > > R
> > > > S
> > > >
> > > > B
> > > > E
> > > > L
> > > > O
> > > > W
> > > >
> > > > SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
> >
> > Well as I said...I'm not convinced. My own guess is that perhaps Alec is
> > not either. He could still have been playing along. Wasn't Jason in one
> > of
> > those cells at the end? I wish I hadn't deleted the episode. If he
> > was...well dear old Granddad locked him up? And why would he be in such
> > fear of Escher?
>
> young Alec really shouldn't trust anyone. my guess is next season Kiera
> will somehow "escape" and re-establish contact with him only at the end
> of that season to be shown as having betrayed him
Why should Keira betray him?! He's already betrayed her in the
> > not either. He could still have been playing along. Wasn't Jason in one
> > of
> > those cells at the end? I wish I hadn't deleted the episode. If he
> > was...well dear old Granddad locked him up? And why would he be in such
> > fear of Escher?
>
> young Alec really shouldn't trust anyone. my guess is next season Kiera
> will somehow "escape" and re-establish contact with him only at the end
> of that season to be shown as having betrayed him
"present", and he's directly responsible for her time-travel in the
future.
If I was Keira, I couldn't throw everyone, except maybe Carlos, under
the bus fast enough! Especially Alec!!
--
"Surf-crazed aliens... Of course." - Amber, "Alien Surf Girls",
Episode #1.1, "Wipeout".
Wait a minute... "Of course"?! "*Of course*"?!! Did I miss a step here??!!
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 12:38:15 PM9/2/13
to
Ian J. Ball <ijball-...@mac.invalid> wrote:
>"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" <atlas-...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" <atlas-...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
father is from the future, the only solution is to kill the father before
he fathers Alec to prevent Alec's birth.
I don't know why the Freelancers haven't figures that out.
Matthew's funny. Can we keep him? Carlos is boring some weeks, so I dunno
why you'd keep him.
cloud dreamer
Sep 2, 2013, 12:44:36 PM9/2/13
to
On 31/08/2013 9:05 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> In article <b6v45p...@mid.individual.net>,
> "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
But...but...but....according to Number 6, if the show has aired, you can
> In article <b6v45p...@mid.individual.net>,
> "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
put out all the spoilers you want...even in the header.
..
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 1:19:35 PM9/2/13
to
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 1:25:47 PM9/2/13
to
time-travelling Kiera from existence or as you prefer, put Alec into an
alternate universe in which she didn't exist.
And if
> it has...then Old Alec wouldn't even know.If it changes to the good
> (whatever THAT might be) then Old Alec might never set the wheels in
> motion to send them all back to change things in the first place.What
> effect would THAT then have?
That would cause reversion. However Alec knows that Kiera and Liber8
> motion to send them all back to change things in the first place.What
> effect would THAT then have?
must travel back in time if he is ever to set up a stable time loop
which changes history, so he has to change history in a way that still
has that happening.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 1:26:57 PM9/2/13
to
Freelancers want.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 1:30:50 PM9/2/13
to
advance notification of everything that was going to happen...up until
Emily was introduced into the mix, and _therefore_ everything
significant up until that point had happened before in the previous time
travel cycle. Therefore history is not brittle and Kiera had been sent
in the previous cycle of the loop.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 1:47:13 PM9/2/13
to
>But what I also noted that Old Alec and Kagame had advance notification
>of everything that was going to happen...up until Emily was introduced
>into the mix, and _therefore_ everything significant up until that point
>had happened before in the previous time travel cycle. Therefore history
>is not brittle and Kiera had been sent in the previous cycle of the loop.
incidents that he had personally conspired with Kagame to cause? Kagame
was inserted into a specific point in history, prior to Julian's
radicalization, to take advantage of things Julian did to make Liber8
more important and a force for change (not just fringe elements) and so
that Julian is still the fall guy for other things because he despises
his brother.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 1:50:10 PM9/2/13
to
exploit time travel so apparently they want something very close to the
established status quo.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 1:56:47 PM9/2/13
to
advance knowledge. To take one example how could he have known that
Kiera would travel back in time to meet his past self without
remembering it? Simply putting Kiera there wasn't enough to ensure that
because it depended on Kiera being the one guard who notices the time
pomegranate and rushes forward to try to stop it a variable he could not
control but could accurately predict.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 1:57:25 PM9/2/13
to
is due to time travel. So where does the religious radicalism come in, if
they're trying to preserve corporate dominance (at least of other corporations
not owned by Alec)?
I could buy them being corporate tools, but they're claiming to be
Freelancers, so they're not corporate tools.
I reject your theory that if they don't work for the corporations, they are
inadvertantly acting in the best interest of the corporations.
In fact, you're forcing me to agree with Kal that they're fucking idiots.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 2:02:26 PM9/2/13
to
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 2:14:37 PM9/2/13
to
technology Alec had built as a teenager. In fact, all the CMRs implanted in
the brains of everyone sent back were compatible, which supports my theory
that Alec had multiple candidates in mind for interacting with his younger
self, including Travis. I don't have a theory as to why he thought Travis
would have been useful.
In any event, he sent Kiera back to Vancouver where he grew up, making a
reasonable assumption that the two of them would interact.
>Simply putting Kiera there wasn't enough to ensure that because it
>depended on Kiera being the one guard who notices the time pomegranate
>and rushes forward to try to stop it a variable he could not control
>but could accurately predict.
they were both candidates, or perhaps Alec assumed they'd be partners
in the past. I do think sending her way too far back into the past, as
Jason was (allegedly) was an accident.
>>Kagame was inserted into a specific point in history, prior to Julian's
>>radicalization, to take advantage of things Julian did to make Liber8
>>more important and a force for change (not just fringe elements) and so
>>that Julian is still the fall guy for other things because he despises
>>his brother.
wasn't altered by sending Liber8 back, why were the Liber8 members unknown
from history?
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 2:16:44 PM9/2/13
to
retroactively wiped out if history is changed, even if that change is
abstractly for the better.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 2:32:34 PM9/2/13
to
at key moments have indeed changed the future, not preserved it.
Important note: We have no idea from whence they came.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 2:40:31 PM9/2/13
to
>
>> Simply putting Kiera there wasn't enough to ensure that because it
>> depended on Kiera being the one guard who notices the time pomegranate
>> and rushes forward to try to stop it a variable he could not control
>> but could accurately predict.
>
> You forget that the other Protector was sent back in time, too,
that Kiera would be the one Alec would hook up. He mentioned her by
name in his message to his younger self. And that depends on Kiera just
happening to be the one who notices what they are doing and getting real
close to it as it goes off, since precision of targetting appears to be
a matter of proximity. Those who were farther away ended up farther
from the target destination with a minor degree of scattering for those
at the center.
so I think
> they were both candidates, or perhaps Alec assumed they'd be partners
> in the past. I do think sending her way too far back into the past, as
> Jason was (allegedly) was an accident.
>
>>> Kagame was inserted into a specific point in history, prior to Julian's
>>> radicalization, to take advantage of things Julian did to make Liber8
>>> more important and a force for change (not just fringe elements) and so
>>> that Julian is still the fall guy for other things because he despises
>>> his brother.
>
> wasn't altered by sending Liber8 back, why were the Liber8 members unknown
> from history?
>
I would guess because Alec doesn't want them to be. Stuff they did,
> from history?
>
like destroying the building, is still in recorded history.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 2:48:30 PM9/2/13
to
we have no basis for that assumption and reason I've mentioned for
before for thinking that they haven't.
>
> Important note: We have no idea from whence they came.
exist in Kiera's time. The actual self-appointed time cops may come
from farther in the future than Kiera's time but that doesn't really
have much bearing on the issue.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Sep 2, 2013, 2:49:18 PM9/2/13
to
In article <l01bok$5q8$1...@dont-email.me>,
almost every character in the show has some connection with Alex, so I'm
assuming that Emily has never been who we think she is...she could
actually be Eschers daughter
assuming that Emily has never been who we think she is...she could
actually be Eschers daughter
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Sep 2, 2013, 2:53:58 PM9/2/13
to
In article
<ijball-NO_SPAM-E9E...@news.eternal-september.org>,
she betrayed him when it became more important for her to go back to her
son than it was to go further back in time so she could deal with Liber8
when they arrive
<ijball-NO_SPAM-E9E...@news.eternal-september.org>,
"Ian J. Ball" <ijball-...@mac.invalid> wrote:
son than it was to go further back in time so she could deal with Liber8
when they arrive
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 3:00:40 PM9/2/13
to
>>Important note: We have no idea from whence they came.
>We know they don't come from the past and that they or their precursors
>exist in Kiera's time. The actual self-appointed time cops may come
>from farther in the future than Kiera's time but that doesn't really
>have much bearing on the issue.
come from any era, actually. All that's required of them is that they
follow orders. In fact, it might be easier to recruit them from a time
before time travel as they won't have anything at stake personally.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 3:13:40 PM9/2/13
to
her CMR. So glad the obvious occurs to you after I've spelled it out. If
she'd been sent back too far into the past, as the other Protector and
Jason had been, she couldn't have communicated with Alec.
>>>Simply putting Kiera there wasn't enough to ensure that because it
>>>depended on Kiera being the one guard who notices the time pomegranate
>>>and rushes forward to try to stop it a variable he could not control
>>>but could accurately predict.
>>You forget that the other Protector was sent back in time, too,
>No, I don't. Anyone near the pomegrante was sent back. But he knew
>that Kiera would be the one Alec would hook up. He mentioned her by
>name in his message to his younger self.
Easter Egg on her CMR for his younger self to find. If he had other
candidates in addition to Kiera, he'd have done exactly the same thing.
The fact that Alec is evil in the back story is the most obvious factor
that you are completely wrong. Of course, you could reject the idea that
the show is about Alec wanted a second chance not to be evil.
>And that depends on Kiera just happening to be the one who notices
>what they are doing and getting real close to it as it goes off, since
>precision of targetting appears to be a matter of proximity. Those who
>were farther away ended up farther from the target destination with a
>minor degree of scattering for those at the center.
time travel event may have been triggered by her entry into the field. If
that's the case, then it's possible that Kiera was the only candidate.
>>so I think they were both candidates, or perhaps Alec assumed they'd
>>be partners in the past. I do think sending her way too far back into
>>the past, as Jason was (allegedly) was an accident.
>>>>Kagame was inserted into a specific point in history, prior to Julian's
>>>>radicalization, to take advantage of things Julian did to make Liber8
>>>>more important and a force for change (not just fringe elements) and so
>>>>that Julian is still the fall guy for other things because he despises
>>>>his brother.
>>wasn't altered by sending Liber8 back, why were the Liber8 members unknown
>>from history?
>I would guess because Alec doesn't want them to be. Stuff they did,
>like destroying the building, is still in recorded history.
Yeah. I don't see how it's possible for him to control what gets recorded
>>from history?
>I would guess because Alec doesn't want them to be. Stuff they did,
>like destroying the building, is still in recorded history.
as history at all points in history.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 3:22:45 PM9/2/13
to
On 9/2/2013 12:49 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> In article <l01bok$5q8$1...@dont-email.me>,
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/1/2013 10:47 PM, Dano wrote:
>>> "David Johnston" wrote in message news:l01022$qkd$2...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 9/1/2013 5:21 PM, Dano wrote:
>>>> "David Johnston" wrote in message news:kvvndb$f2k$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 9/1/2013 9:28 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>>>>>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>>>>>
>>>>>> S
>>>>>> P
>>>>>> O
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> L
>>>>>> E
>>>>>> R
>>>>>> S
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B
>>>>>> E
>>>>>> L
>>>>>> O
>>>>>> W
>>>>>
> In article <l01bok$5q8$1...@dont-email.me>,
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/1/2013 10:47 PM, Dano wrote:
>>> "David Johnston" wrote in message news:l01022$qkd$2...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 9/1/2013 5:21 PM, Dano wrote:
>>>> "David Johnston" wrote in message news:kvvndb$f2k$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> On 9/1/2013 9:28 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>>>>>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>>>>>
>>>>>> S
>>>>>> P
>>>>>> O
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> L
>>>>>> E
>>>>>> R
>>>>>> S
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B
>>>>>> E
>>>>>> L
>>>>>> O
>>>>>> W
>>>>>
>> As I said, Emily seems to be a new addition to the mix. But in a
>> brittle timeline, the simple appearance of a time traveller would cause
>> expanding ripples of historical change. The grand children of those
>> presently alive would never exist. And I don't think they're going to
>> go with "Kiera and the others have already changed history so that she
>> no longer has a son to go back to or anyone who remembers her."
>
> almost every character in the show has some connection with Alex, so I'm
> assuming that Emily has never been who we think she is...she could
> actually be Eschers daughter
>
Let's establish that Escher was lying about Alec being his son before we
>> brittle timeline, the simple appearance of a time traveller would cause
>> expanding ripples of historical change. The grand children of those
>> presently alive would never exist. And I don't think they're going to
>> go with "Kiera and the others have already changed history so that she
>> no longer has a son to go back to or anyone who remembers her."
>
> almost every character in the show has some connection with Alex, so I'm
> assuming that Emily has never been who we think she is...she could
> actually be Eschers daughter
>
go there. Otherwise it gets a little Star Wars.
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 3:27:28 PM9/2/13
to
time which is not so impossible as a leading member of a corporate
oligarchy which has every reason to try to suppress Liber8's
ideology...or you know just adjust her personal memory to delete
anything awkward. Remember Kiera apparently has no clue that the mass
murder Theseus is most famous consisted of hitting the off switch on a
workforce of cyberzombies.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 2, 2013, 3:46:58 PM9/2/13
to
David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>On 9/2/2013 1:13 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>On 9/2/2013 12:14 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>>>On 9/2/2013 11:47 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> W
>On 9/2/2013 1:13 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>On 9/2/2013 12:14 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>>>On 9/2/2013 11:47 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> W
>>>>>>Kagame was inserted into a specific point in history, prior to Julian's
>>>>>>radicalization, to take advantage of things Julian did to make Liber8
>>>>>>more important and a force for change (not just fringe elements) and so
>>>>>>that Julian is still the fall guy for other things because he despises
>>>>>>his brother.
>>>>You ignored this bit (thank you for not cutting it). If the timeline
>>>>wasn't altered by sending Liber8 back, why were the Liber8 members unknown
>>>>from history?
>>>I would guess because Alec doesn't want them to be. Stuff they did,
>>>like destroying the building, is still in recorded history.
>>Yeah. I don't see how it's possible for him to control what gets recorded
>>as history at all points in history.
>He doesn't have to control it at all points in history. Just in Kiera's
>time which is not so impossible as a leading member of a corporate
>oligarchy which has every reason to try to suppress Liber8's
>ideology...or you know just adjust her personal memory to delete
>anything awkward. Remember Kiera apparently has no clue that the mass
>murder Theseus is most famous consisted of hitting the off switch on a
>workforce of cyberzombies.
Yes, that episode established for the viewer that Kiera was unfamiliar
>>>>>>radicalization, to take advantage of things Julian did to make Liber8
>>>>>>more important and a force for change (not just fringe elements) and so
>>>>>>that Julian is still the fall guy for other things because he despises
>>>>>>his brother.
>>>>You ignored this bit (thank you for not cutting it). If the timeline
>>>>wasn't altered by sending Liber8 back, why were the Liber8 members unknown
>>>>from history?
>>>I would guess because Alec doesn't want them to be. Stuff they did,
>>>like destroying the building, is still in recorded history.
>>Yeah. I don't see how it's possible for him to control what gets recorded
>>as history at all points in history.
>He doesn't have to control it at all points in history. Just in Kiera's
>time which is not so impossible as a leading member of a corporate
>oligarchy which has every reason to try to suppress Liber8's
>ideology...or you know just adjust her personal memory to delete
>anything awkward. Remember Kiera apparently has no clue that the mass
>murder Theseus is most famous consisted of hitting the off switch on a
>workforce of cyberzombies.
with the true history of her own society. But you're claiming that it was
possible to keep Liber8's identities unknown prior to Kiera's time, when
the corporations hadn't yet established dominance, when Liber8 was less
powerful, and somehow, no one stopped them or learned who they were.
So, clearly you're wrong that Alec required control of history at very
limited moments rather than ever since he sent Liber8 back in time, in
support of your theory that Alec exists after he's committed great evil
despite having altered the time line, in which case, his evil plot to
control history was fuck.
Wouldn't this have occurred to Kagame, if anything you say is correct?
David Johnston
Sep 2, 2013, 4:35:08 PM9/2/13
to
except Kagame was born.
when Liber8 was less
> powerful, and somehow, no one stopped them or learned who they were.
Liber8 were time travellers rather than a revival of an old terrorist
group? Which they probably wouldn't. The oligarchs except for Alec
would know that Liber8's activities helped bring them to power and would
not know about that last big operation against them. Also of course,
Alec (and Escher) have a technology that would let them rewrite the
records of the present any way they chose. Alec actually edited Kiera's
memory to keep her from pursuing an investigation that might derail the
plan.
>
> So, clearly you're wrong that Alec required control of history at very
> limited moments rather than ever since he sent Liber8 back in time, in
> support of your theory that Alec exists after he's committed great evil
> despite having altered the time line, in which case, his evil plot to
> control history was fuck.
>
> Wouldn't this have occurred to Kagame, if anything you say is correct?
>
been to go along with his alleged predestined future (according to
Julian) right up until he died, then try to change history by replacing
the leader he'd leave behind with a different one.
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Sep 2, 2013, 6:38:51 PM9/2/13
to
In article <l02oi6$pu4$1...@dont-email.me>,
they could have different mothers which would make it less strange or
maybe feelings about "incest" have changed in the future
maybe feelings about "incest" have changed in the future
~consul
Sep 2, 2013, 8:26:10 PM9/2/13
to
'tis on this 9/1/2013 11:28 AM, wrote Adam H. Kerman thus to say:
> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>> S
>>
>> B
>> E
>> L
>> O
>> W
>
>> SEASON 2 FINALE CLIFFHANGERS
> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> SPOILERS here for Continuum through the Season 2 finale
>> and in particular including the revelations in that finale.
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>> S
>>
>> B
>> E
>> L
>> O
>> W
>
>> In an early Season 2 episode, we saw Older Alec in 2077 do
>> another "Transmit Data" into Kiera's CMR, and/or a dream
>> sequence that was the same as the Season 2 cliffhanger. It
>> was Kiera geting pumped up with drugs and imprisoned.
>
> It's either a retcon, or Alec is sensitive to changes made in the past in
> a way that other characters aren't, so he had to keep updating Kiera. He's
> really not nice to her at all.
Maybe it's just me, but I felt that when Kiera first came back here, she (and her flashbacks) showed her as being fully intergrated into her life, that she didn't have any real suspicions of anything hinky going on. Now, the past couple of epsodes, the flashbacks have her doing real investigations, being suspicious and wary of the establishment.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, consul -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
anim8rFSK
Sep 2, 2013, 9:56:49 PM9/2/13
to
In article <l03abj$pv0$2...@dont-email.me>,
Of course her history is being changed, so maybe her flashbacks are too.
--
Wait - are you saying that ClodReamer was wrong, or lying?
--
Wait - are you saying that ClodReamer was wrong, or lying?
Ian J. Ball
Sep 3, 2013, 10:42:47 AM9/3/13
to
In article <atlas-bugged-499D...@free.teranews.com>,
Are you watching the same show the rest of us are?....
--
"Surf-crazed aliens... Of course." - Amber, "Alien Surf Girls",
Episode #1.1, "Wipeout".
Wait a minute... "Of course"?! "*Of course*"?!! Did I miss a step here??!!
--
"Surf-crazed aliens... Of course." - Amber, "Alien Surf Girls",
Episode #1.1, "Wipeout".
Wait a minute... "Of course"?! "*Of course*"?!! Did I miss a step here??!!
Jim G.
Sep 3, 2013, 1:58:51 PM9/3/13
to
Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to himself
> was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Dang it. That was my best Dirty Harry. He might just be an idiot." --
Jason Stackhouse, TRUE BLOOD
> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to himself
> was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
"Dang it. That was my best Dirty Harry. He might just be an idiot." --
Jason Stackhouse, TRUE BLOOD
David Johnston
Sep 3, 2013, 2:21:26 PM9/3/13
to
On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
> Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>> himself
>> was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>
> It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
> letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
>
Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
> Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>> himself
>> was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>
> It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
> letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
>
best as I can tell, he never did.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 3, 2013, 2:32:16 PM9/3/13
to
we see the future as changed by time travel into the past. . .
. . . except when we're not.
Thanks ever so for clarifying how the story has been unfolding.
David Johnston
Sep 3, 2013, 3:04:03 PM9/3/13
to
On 9/3/2013 12:32 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>
>>>> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>>>> himself was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>
>>> It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
>>> letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
>
>> Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
>> best as I can tell, he never did.
>
> Do you ever stop contradicting yourself, Johnston?So according to you,
> David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>
>>>> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>>>> himself was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>
>>> It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
>>> letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
>
>> Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
>> best as I can tell, he never did.
>
> we see the future as changed by time travel into the past. . .
>
> . . . except when we're not.
That the future we are seeing isn't the one where Alec met Emily doesn't
>
> . . . except when we're not.
mean it isn't the product of time travel. It just means that the
historical manipulations are ongoing until the historical manipulators
are either neutralized or satisfied.
Consider the finale. Alec is travelling back to undo Emily's death.
But Emily's death is itself the product of time travel. She was brought
into Alec's life by one time traveller and killed by another. Alec is
travelling from one present created by time travel into the past where
he'll create a new history.
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 3, 2013, 4:45:05 PM9/3/13
to
David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>On 9/3/2013 12:32 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>>Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>>>>>Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>>>>>himself was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>>>>It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
>>>>letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
>>>Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
>>>best as I can tell, he never did.
>>Do you ever stop contradicting yourself, Johnston? So according to you,
>On 9/3/2013 12:32 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>David Johnston <Da...@block.net> wrote:
>>>On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
>>>>Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>>>>>Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>>>>>himself was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>>>>It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
>>>>letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the torso.
>>>Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
>>>best as I can tell, he never did.
>>we see the future as changed by time travel into the past. . .
>>. . . except when we're not.
>That the future we are seeing isn't the one where Alec met Emily doesn't
>mean it isn't the product of time travel. It just means that the
>historical manipulations are ongoing until the historical manipulators
>are either neutralized or satisfied.
That would be the writers.
>>. . . except when we're not.
>That the future we are seeing isn't the one where Alec met Emily doesn't
>mean it isn't the product of time travel. It just means that the
>historical manipulations are ongoing until the historical manipulators
>are either neutralized or satisfied.
>Consider the finale. Alec is travelling back to undo Emily's death.
>But Emily's death is itself the product of time travel. She was brought
>into Alec's life by one time traveller and killed by another. Alec is
>travelling from one present created by time travel into the past where
>he'll create a new history.
David Johnston
Sep 3, 2013, 4:46:28 PM9/3/13
to
Adam H. Kerman
Sep 3, 2013, 4:48:51 PM9/3/13
to
It's the closed loop you believe it to be.
Jim G.
Sep 4, 2013, 3:22:08 PM9/4/13
to
David Johnston sent the following on 9/3/2013 1:21 PM:
No, it would only require *Young* Alec to meet her. And since the
timeline already has a message reaching Young Alec from his future self,
there's no reason why that message couldn't have included a bit about
not letting Emily do something really stupid on a rooftop.
timeline already has a message reaching Young Alec from his future self,
there's no reason why that message couldn't have included a bit about
not letting Emily do something really stupid on a rooftop.
David Johnston
Sep 4, 2013, 4:14:46 PM9/4/13
to
On 9/4/2013 1:22 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> David Johnston sent the following on 9/3/2013 1:21 PM:
>> On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>>>> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>>>> himself
>>>> was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>>>
>>> It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
>>> letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the
>>> torso.
>>>
>>
>> Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
>> best as I can tell, he never did.
>
> No, it would only require *Young* Alec to meet her.And since the
> David Johnston sent the following on 9/3/2013 1:21 PM:
>> On 9/3/2013 11:58 AM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Dano sent the following on 9/1/2013 11:43 PM:
>>>> Did we ever learn exactly what the message Alec sent back in time to
>>>> himself
>>>> was? I suspect there's a lot we're still left guessing at.
>>>
>>> It would have been nice if his message had included a bit about not
>>> letting his gal pal stupidly stand up and take some bullets to the
>>> torso.
>>>
>>
>> Of course that would have required Old Alec to have ever met her, and
>> best as I can tell, he never did.
>
> timeline already has a message reaching Young Alec from his future self,
But his previous future self never met her...probably. Remember, the
only reason Young Alec is still alive is because of Emily. This leads
me to believe that Emily is a new factor. Bear in mind that Young Alec
only knows Emily because Escher, who is a time traveller, sent her after
him. I believe Emily is already an historical change so Old Alec never
met her.
Then again I could be wrong. Old Alec did tell Young Alec not to trust
Kiera and he could have been referring to that..or to some completely
different situation where Kiera throws care aside while chasing the
pomegranate.
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