Doctor Who - Heaven Sent - Review With Spoilers

[The Doctor]

9/10 .

I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.

Psychodrama at its best!

Te Doctor supposed it instantly teleported from secret London to
a mysteriuos castle 1 light year away from Earth.

He has to figure out why and how he got there
and what trap awaits him.

IF you have not figured out Moffat and how he likes to torture the Doctor,
Watch this hour long episode.

Apppearently the Doctor is caught in a repeat until loop.

Repeat the sequenece until you break the diamond mountain.

By the Way he must have done this billions of times until he broke the loop.

Where does he end up?


Home! And next week looks interesting!

You have to pay close attention!!

This makes Midnight looks a picnic.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Happy Christmas 2015 and Merry New Year 2016

[T987654321]

The Doctor is a hybrid who wil...never mind.

Doctor Who needs to be put back on the shelf for a couple years and come back with a new team of writers and producers.

[John Hall]

In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
<doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes

>9/10 .
>
>I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>

My own score would be a lot lower than 9.

As usual with Steven Moffat these days, that was very clever but full of
holes. I think the production team needs an official Devil's Advocate,
someone whose job is to say: "Brilliant idea, Steven, but there are some
problems with it: this, this and this. Can you find a plausible way to
work around them?"

SPOILERS FOLLOW!

First problem: the teleport technology used to bring the Doctor to the
castle is said by the Doctor to be limited to a range of one lightyear.
That's fundamental, as it allows the Doctor to know what the sky looks
like at the present time and hence to determine how far in the future he
is. From that he is able to work out that when he dies he must be
brought back to life using a back-up recording that his captors must
have made. But where within one lightyear could his prison possibly be?
It seems that it would have to be on a planet or moon somewhere in our
solar system. A force field could perhaps keep in a breathable
atmosphere, but it would have to be close enough to the sun to have a
proper night and day, its gravity would have to be not much less than
Earth's (judging by the speed at which the Doctor's trinket dropped),
and the atmosphere would have to be transparent. I'm not sure that
there's anywhere other than Earth itself meeting those criteria, and not
even Earth would do so after a billion years had passed. Then at the end
of the episode he is teleported again and seemingly finds himself on
Gallifrey, if I've interpreted it correctly. OK, maybe this was a
different sort of teleport device, not limited to one lightyear in
range. I wouldn't normally try to analyse a Who episode in such hard SF
terms, but by using a hard SF idea this episode invited that.

Second problem: Apparently the Veil instantly knows when the Doctor has
made a true confession. It has to, as its creators must know that he is
quite capable of lying. And since the Doctor does not try to lie to it,
he must believe that it will know if he lies. How can it do that, unless
his captors have access to all his memories (which he more or less
concedes they do when he refers to the prison having things that
particularly scare him)? If they have all his memories, which they could
surely access by scanning the back-up on disk that they've made of him,
then why do they need him to confess? They should know all about the
mysterious Hybrid and who it is. (If it's the Doctor himself, I do hope
they aren't going to revive the "Doctor has a mother from Earth" idea.)
I also have a problem with the whole idea of being able to recreate the
Doctor perfectly from a back-up. (Talking of confessions: that the
Doctor originally left Gallifrey because of fear rather than boredom is
interesting. I wonder what he feared.)

Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.

Fourth and biggest problem: Surely the Time Lords must have installed
some sort of monitoring system in their prison, even if its operation is
fully automated? They know how resourceful the Doctor is. With a billion
years to work out what is going on, they should surely have realised
that the Doctor wasn't punching the adamantine shield out of pure pique.
Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
increasing level of damage to it.

I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
then it must have been better than I at first thought! The big reveal at
the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
the Veil.
--
John Hall
"Honest criticism is hard to take,
particularly from a relative, a friend,
an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

[The Doctor]

In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

REcall the Doctor did give Ashilidr his confession dial.

>Second problem: Apparently the Veil instantly knows when the Doctor has
>made a true confession. It has to, as its creators must know that he is
>quite capable of lying. And since the Doctor does not try to lie to it,
>he must believe that it will know if he lies. How can it do that, unless
>his captors have access to all his memories (which he more or less
>concedes they do when he refers to the prison having things that
>particularly scare him)? If they have all his memories, which they could
>surely access by scanning the back-up on disk that they've made of him,
>then why do they need him to confess? They should know all about the
>mysterious Hybrid and who it is. (If it's the Doctor himself, I do hope
>they aren't going to revive the "Doctor has a mother from Earth" idea.)
>I also have a problem with the whole idea of being able to recreate the
>Doctor perfectly from a back-up. (Talking of confessions: that the
>Doctor originally left Gallifrey because of fear rather than boredom is
>interesting. I wonder what he feared.)
>

Who are his captors, if any?

>Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
>over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
>wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.

It is the Time Lords?

>
>Fourth and biggest problem: Surely the Time Lords must have installed
>some sort of monitoring system in their prison, even if its operation is
>fully automated? They know how resourceful the Doctor is. With a billion
>years to work out what is going on, they should surely have realised
>that the Doctor wasn't punching the adamantine shield out of pure pique.
>Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
>increasing level of damage to it.

REmember he is caught in a loop.

>
>I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>then it must have been better than I at first thought! The big reveal at
>the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
>such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
>Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
>meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
>the Veil.
>--
>John Hall
> "Honest criticism is hard to take,
> particularly from a relative, a friend,
> an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

[anim8rfsk]

In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
> >9/10 .
> >
> >I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
> >
>
> My own score would be a lot lower than 9.

Can we go negative?

Yep, the entire "less than one light year away in the same time zone"
set-up displays a level of ignorance that borders on unimaginable.

>
> Second problem: Apparently the Veil instantly knows when the Doctor has
> made a true confession. It has to, as its creators must know that he is
> quite capable of lying. And since the Doctor does not try to lie to it,
> he must believe that it will know if he lies. How can it do that, unless
> his captors have access to all his memories (which he more or less
> concedes they do when he refers to the prison having things that
> particularly scare him)? If they have all his memories, which they could
> surely access by scanning the back-up on disk that they've made of him,
> then why do they need him to confess? They should know all about the
> mysterious Hybrid and who it is. (If it's the Doctor himself, I do hope
> they aren't going to revive the "Doctor has a mother from Earth" idea.)
> I also have a problem with the whole idea of being able to recreate the
> Doctor perfectly from a back-up. (Talking of confessions: that the
> Doctor originally left Gallifrey because of fear rather than boredom is
> interesting. I wonder what he feared.)

A serious problem with the dying doctor having enough energy to run the
teleporter and recreate himself fully powered ...

>
> Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
> over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
> wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.
>
> Fourth and biggest problem: Surely the Time Lords must have installed
> some sort of monitoring system in their prison, even if its operation is
> fully automated? They know how resourceful the Doctor is. With a billion
> years to work out what is going on, they should surely have realised
> that the Doctor wasn't punching the adamantine shield out of pure pique.
> Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
> increasing level of damage to it.

Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?

>
> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
> then it must have been better than I at first thought!

No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
ever" record in, er, record time.

The big reveal at
> the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
> such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
> Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
> meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
> the Veil.

--

Barb May is wrong, stupid, fat, ugly, and a liar. As usual.

[Arthur Lipscomb]

Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.

> Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?
>>
>> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
>
> No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
> ever" record in, er, record time.
>

OK, so then I'm not the only one who had *serious* issues with this
episode. :-/

[Siri Cruz]

In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

> Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
> over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
> wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.

In the Invasion of Time when they talk about the Eye of Harmony, they say it
makes a perpetual balance, so, yes, they overcome entropy.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists since we
cannot prove the consistency. ~~ Morris Kline

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,

And why make an escape possibly at all?

> up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
> of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.

Yeah, how exactly *was* he keeping count? Just by looking at the stars?
And why did it possibly take him thousands of years to come up with "the
transporter room resets" every time?

>
> > Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?
> >>
> >> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
> >> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
> >
> > No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
> > ever" record in, er, record time.
> >
>
> OK, so then I'm not the only one who had *serious* issues with this
> episode. :-/

Nope.

And those rear shots of Clara were so *clearly* really Jenna that you
knew her face would show before the end. My recording clipped off the
end credits - did they credit her? I know they didn't at the beginning.

[Siri Cruz]

In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

> Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
> Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
> gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
> up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
> of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.

They were trying to extract information about the Hybrid. And failed because the
Doctor allowed himself to be killed rather than reveal the Hybrid was not part
Dalek but all Dalek and he was the Hybrid.

Hybrid? Dalek? Gallifrey? I haven't got a clue.

Since Gallifrey isn't in normal space, its crack to normal space could be within
a light year.

[David Barnett]

In article <anim8rfsk-B50F45.10350829112015
@news.easynews.com>, anim...@cox.net says...

>
> And those rear shots of Clara were so *clearly* really Jenna that you
> knew her face would show before the end. My recording clipped off the
> end credits - did they credit her? I know they didn't at the beginning.

Yes, the end credits did.

--
David Barnett

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-54F5F...@news.easynews.com>,

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
> John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>> >9/10 .
>> >
>> >I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>> >
>>
>> My own score would be a lot lower than 9.
>
>Can we go negative?

See ou all on imdb.

Recall this has to deal with the confession dial which Ashildr has.

>>
>> Second problem: Apparently the Veil instantly knows when the Doctor has
>> made a true confession. It has to, as its creators must know that he is
>> quite capable of lying. And since the Doctor does not try to lie to it,
>> he must believe that it will know if he lies. How can it do that, unless
>> his captors have access to all his memories (which he more or less
>> concedes they do when he refers to the prison having things that
>> particularly scare him)? If they have all his memories, which they could
>> surely access by scanning the back-up on disk that they've made of him,
>> then why do they need him to confess? They should know all about the
>> mysterious Hybrid and who it is. (If it's the Doctor himself, I do hope
>> they aren't going to revive the "Doctor has a mother from Earth" idea.)
>> I also have a problem with the whole idea of being able to recreate the
>> Doctor perfectly from a back-up. (Talking of confessions: that the
>> Doctor originally left Gallifrey because of fear rather than boredom is
>> interesting. I wonder what he feared.)
>
>A serious problem with the dying doctor having enough energy to run the
>teleporter and recreate himself fully powered ...

He does so 2 000 000 000 times.

The moat is filled with his skulls.

>>
>> Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
>> over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
>> wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.

Doubtful. REcall LEt's Kill Hitler.

>>
>> Fourth and biggest problem: Surely the Time Lords must have installed
>> some sort of monitoring system in their prison, even if its operation is
>> fully automated? They know how resourceful the Doctor is. With a billion
>> years to work out what is going on, they should surely have realised
>> that the Doctor wasn't punching the adamantine shield out of pure pique.
>> Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
>> increasing level of damage to it.
>
>Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?

Not of the rooms are really resetting.

>>
>> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
>
>No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
>ever" record in, er, record time.

Ever heard of a repeat-until loop?

>
> The big reveal at
>> the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
>> such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
>> Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
>> meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
>> the Veil.
>

This was a Hell of the Doctor's own making.

>--
>Barb May is wrong, stupid, fat, ugly, and a liar. As usual.

[The Doctor]

In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Becaue the Doctor is caught in a loop.

>
>> Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?
>>>
>>> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>>> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
>>
>> No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
>> ever" record in, er, record time.
>>
>
>OK, so then I'm not the only one who had *serious* issues with this
>episode. :-/
>

Do you have issues in logical determination?

>
>> The big reveal at
>>> the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
>>> such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
>>> Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
>>> meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
>>> the Veil.
>>
>

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-66076...@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,

Siri Cruz <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
> John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
>> over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
>> wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.
>
>In the Invasion of Time when they talk about the Eye of Harmony, they say it
>makes a perpetual balance, so, yes, they overcome entropy.
>

A Black Hole that give Gallifrey Time Travel power!

>--
>:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
>'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
>God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists since we
>cannot prove the consistency. ~~ Morris Kline

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-B50F4...@news.easynews.com>,

The *time machine* scenes are all virtual.

>
>> up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
>> of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>
>Yeah, how exactly *was* he keeping count? Just by looking at the stars?
>And why did it possibly take him thousands of years to come up with "the
>transporter room resets" every time?

He does not recall the time he as been reset.

>>
>> > Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?
>> >>
>> >> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>> >> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
>> >
>> > No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
>> > ever" record in, er, record time.
>> >
>>
>> OK, so then I'm not the only one who had *serious* issues with this
>> episode. :-/
>
>Nope.
>
>And those rear shots of Clara were so *clearly* really Jenna that you
>knew her face would show before the end. My recording clipped off the
>end credits - did they credit her? I know they didn't at the beginning.

They did at the end.

>
>--
>Barb May is wrong, stupid, fat, ugly, and a liar. As usual.

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-7397A...@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,

Siri Cruz <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>
>> Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
>> Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
>> gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
>> up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
>> of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>
>They were trying to extract information about the Hybrid. And failed because the
>Doctor allowed himself to be killed rather than reveal the Hybrid was not part
>Dalek but all Dalek and he was the Hybrid.
>
>Hybrid? Dalek? Gallifrey? I haven't got a clue.
>
>Since Gallifrey isn't in normal space, its crack to normal space could be within
>a light year.
>

We guess. The Doctor most likely was teleported into his confession dial.

>--
>:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
>'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
>God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists since we
>cannot prove the consistency. ~~ Morris Kline

[The Doctor]

In article <MPG.30c6002...@news.eternal-september.org>,

"get off your arse"

[Agamemnon]

On 29/11/2015 11:05, John Hall wrote:
> In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>> 9/10 .
>>
>> I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>>
>
> My own score would be a lot lower than 9.
>
> As usual with Steven Moffat these days, that was very clever but full of
> holes. I think the production team needs an official Devil's Advocate,
> someone whose job is to say: "Brilliant idea, Steven, but there are some
> problems with it: this, this and this. Can you find a plausible way to
> work around them?"

Seconded.

>
> SPOILERS FOLLOW!
>
> First problem: the teleport technology used to bring the Doctor to the
> castle is said by the Doctor to be limited to a range of one lightyear.
> That's fundamental, as it allows the Doctor to know what the sky looks
> like at the present time and hence to determine how far in the future he
> is. From that he is able to work out that when he dies he must be

All of which is a complete load of nonsense. He wouldn't be able to tell
he was 7,000 years into the future just from observing the positions of
the stars with he eyes without accurate measuring equipment. They didn't
even look like recognisable constellations to me to begin with. After
less than a a hundred thousand years the Doctor wouldn't have a clue
what date it was. Like he's got information about the velocities of all
the brightest stars in his head and when they will go nova?

> brought back to life using a back-up recording that his captors must
> have made. But where within one lightyear could his prison possibly be?
> It seems that it would have to be on a planet or moon somewhere in our
> solar system. A force field could perhaps keep in a breathable
> atmosphere, but it would have to be close enough to the sun to have a
> proper night and day, its gravity would have to be not much less than
> Earth's (judging by the speed at which the Doctor's trinket dropped),
> and the atmosphere would have to be transparent. I'm not sure that
> there's anywhere other than Earth itself meeting those criteria, and not
> even Earth would do so after a billion years had passed. Then at the end

If the planet was in Earth's solar system close enough to the sun to be
provided with enough heat and light it would affect the motions of other
planets and therefore have been noticed even with a clocking device to
hide it.

> of the episode he is teleported again and seemingly finds himself on
> Gallifrey, if I've interpreted it correctly. OK, maybe this was a
> different sort of teleport device, not limited to one lightyear in
> range. I wouldn't normally try to analyse a Who episode in such hard SF
> terms, but by using a hard SF idea this episode invited that.

The confession dial he was locked into was also on Gallifrey.

>
> Second problem: Apparently the Veil instantly knows when the Doctor has
> made a true confession. It has to, as its creators must know that he is
> quite capable of lying. And since the Doctor does not try to lie to it,
> he must believe that it will know if he lies. How can it do that, unless
> his captors have access to all his memories (which he more or less
> concedes they do when he refers to the prison having things that
> particularly scare him)? If they have all his memories, which they could
> surely access by scanning the back-up on disk that they've made of him,
> then why do they need him to confess? They should know all about the
> mysterious Hybrid and who it is. (If it's the Doctor himself, I do hope
> they aren't going to revive the "Doctor has a mother from Earth" idea.)

He never confessed he was the hybrid when he was in the dial so that
could be a lie. Ashildr is the most likely hybrid unless they're going
to reveal the Doctor is half human again.

> I also have a problem with the whole idea of being able to recreate the
> Doctor perfectly from a back-up.

It's a perpetual motion machine. Where does the mass/energy come from to
produce the copy when the Doctor's ashes and skull remain on the ground?

(Talking of confessions: that the
> Doctor originally left Gallifrey because of fear rather than boredom is
> interesting. I wonder what he feared.)
>

In An Unearthly Child the Doctor and Susan were fugitives from their own
people. Maybe the Doctor was afraid of dying without seeing the
universe. At this time he doesn't have a clue what Daleks or Cybermen
even are or anything much. Maybe he was afraid of being called up for
National Service?

> Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
> over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
> wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.
>

Ever since RTD and Moffat took over the show they've had the same
moronic obsession with exaggerating everything so much that's it's
become totally unbelievable. Instead of having a tiny isolated village
being invaded by aliens it's got to be the entire f'ing planet and it's
on ever f'ing news channel and then everyone forgets. Instead of a few
dozen Zygon's being given sanctuary it's has to be 20 f'ing million of
them and no one f'ing notices. Instead of the Doctor being UNIT's
scientific advisor he has to be world f'ing president. And now instead
of going round a loop a few dozen times like in Meglos it has to be near
a whole f'ing trillion.

BTW after Gallifrey dispersed how was the planet of the Fendahl which
was in the same solar system kept inside the time loop the Time Lords
put it in?

What happens to the Time Lock Gallifrey was put in at the end of the
Time War now that Gallifrey is back?

> Fourth and biggest problem: Surely the Time Lords must have installed
> some sort of monitoring system in their prison, even if its operation is
> fully automated? They know how resourceful the Doctor is. With a billion
> years to work out what is going on, they should surely have realised
> that the Doctor wasn't punching the adamantine shield out of pure pique.

Like why didn't he kick it or use his spade?

> Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
> increasing level of damage to it.
>

How did they know the monster wasn't going to kill the Doctor outright?
Was it their intention for him to live or die? If the latter why not
just kill him properly in a disintergrator (which the teleporter
resembled) like the Daleks did to the Master in the TVM?

> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
> then it must have been better than I at first thought! The big reveal at

No. Just badly written.

> the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine

It didn't come as a surprise because the Doctor Who website and Radio
Times gave the entire f'ing ending away over a week ago.

> such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
> Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
> meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
> the Veil.

I'm expecting it to be another plot-less disappointment. Everything
being built up so that the reset button can be pressed.

[The Doctor]

In article <aNKdnTQOo-rC8cbL...@eclipse.net.uk>,

Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>On 29/11/2015 11:05, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>>> 9/10 .
>>>
>>> I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>>>
>>
>> My own score would be a lot lower than 9.
>>
>> As usual with Steven Moffat these days, that was very clever but full of
>> holes. I think the production team needs an official Devil's Advocate,
>> someone whose job is to say: "Brilliant idea, Steven, but there are some
>> problems with it: this, this and this. Can you find a plausible way to
>> work around them?"
>
>Seconded.
>

I wonder how he gets writing awards.

>>
>> SPOILERS FOLLOW!
>>
>> First problem: the teleport technology used to bring the Doctor to the
>> castle is said by the Doctor to be limited to a range of one lightyear.
>> That's fundamental, as it allows the Doctor to know what the sky looks
>> like at the present time and hence to determine how far in the future he
>> is. From that he is able to work out that when he dies he must be
>
>All of which is a complete load of nonsense. He wouldn't be able to tell
>he was 7,000 years into the future just from observing the positions of
>the stars with he eyes without accurate measuring equipment. They didn't
>even look like recognisable constellations to me to begin with. After
>less than a a hundred thousand years the Doctor wouldn't have a clue
>what date it was. Like he's got information about the velocities of all
>the brightest stars in his head and when they will go nova?

He is caught a loop of his own making.

>
>> brought back to life using a back-up recording that his captors must
>> have made. But where within one lightyear could his prison possibly be?
>> It seems that it would have to be on a planet or moon somewhere in our
>> solar system. A force field could perhaps keep in a breathable
>> atmosphere, but it would have to be close enough to the sun to have a
>> proper night and day, its gravity would have to be not much less than
>> Earth's (judging by the speed at which the Doctor's trinket dropped),
>> and the atmosphere would have to be transparent. I'm not sure that
>> there's anywhere other than Earth itself meeting those criteria, and not
>> even Earth would do so after a billion years had passed. Then at the end
>
>If the planet was in Earth's solar system close enough to the sun to be
>provided with enough heat and light it would affect the motions of other
>planets and therefore have been noticed even with a clocking device to
>hide it.

Point well taken.

>
>> of the episode he is teleported again and seemingly finds himself on
>> Gallifrey, if I've interpreted it correctly. OK, maybe this was a
>> different sort of teleport device, not limited to one lightyear in
>> range. I wouldn't normally try to analyse a Who episode in such hard SF
>> terms, but by using a hard SF idea this episode invited that.
>
>The confession dial he was locked into was also on Gallifrey.

Sounds ike the Gallifreyan Matrix.

>
>>
>> Second problem: Apparently the Veil instantly knows when the Doctor has
>> made a true confession. It has to, as its creators must know that he is
>> quite capable of lying. And since the Doctor does not try to lie to it,
>> he must believe that it will know if he lies. How can it do that, unless
>> his captors have access to all his memories (which he more or less
>> concedes they do when he refers to the prison having things that
>> particularly scare him)? If they have all his memories, which they could
>> surely access by scanning the back-up on disk that they've made of him,
>> then why do they need him to confess? They should know all about the
>> mysterious Hybrid and who it is. (If it's the Doctor himself, I do hope
>> they aren't going to revive the "Doctor has a mother from Earth" idea.)
>
>He never confessed he was the hybrid when he was in the dial so that
>could be a lie. Ashildr is the most likely hybrid unless they're going
>to reveal the Doctor is half human again.
>

We wait and see on this one. Ashilidr is a hybrid

>> I also have a problem with the whole idea of being able to recreate the
>> Doctor perfectly from a back-up.
>
>It's a perpetual motion machine. Where does the mass/energy come from to
>produce the copy when the Doctor's ashes and skull remain on the ground?

We saw the 7000 iteration. I wonder how it worked the 1st time.

>
>(Talking of confessions: that the
>> Doctor originally left Gallifrey because of fear rather than boredom is
>> interesting. I wonder what he feared.)
>>
>
>In An Unearthly Child the Doctor and Susan were fugitives from their own
>people. Maybe the Doctor was afraid of dying without seeing the
>universe. At this time he doesn't have a clue what Daleks or Cybermen
>even are or anything much. Maybe he was afraid of being called up for
>National Service?
>

Recall the idea ofthe Gallifreyan Military was inert at the start.

>> Third problem: Could even the Time Lords keep this operation running for
>> over a billion years? Even their creations can't be immune to entropy. I
>> wish a more believable time-span such as 5,000 years had been chosen.
>>
>
>Ever since RTD and Moffat took over the show they've had the same
>moronic obsession with exaggerating everything so much that's it's
>become totally unbelievable. Instead of having a tiny isolated village
>being invaded by aliens it's got to be the entire f'ing planet and it's
>on ever f'ing news channel and then everyone forgets. Instead of a few
>dozen Zygon's being given sanctuary it's has to be 20 f'ing million of
>them and no one f'ing notices. Instead of the Doctor being UNIT's
>scientific advisor he has to be world f'ing president. And now instead
>of going round a loop a few dozen times like in Meglos it has to be near
>a whole f'ing trillion.
>
>BTW after Gallifrey dispersed how was the planet of the Fendahl which
>was in the same solar system kept inside the time loop the Time Lords
>put it in?
>
>What happens to the Time Lock Gallifrey was put in at the end of the
>Time War now that Gallifrey is back?
>

RTD was the one who wanted Gallifrey out of the way
while Moffat toyed with the Gallifrey idea of its return.

>> Fourth and biggest problem: Surely the Time Lords must have installed
>> some sort of monitoring system in their prison, even if its operation is
>> fully automated? They know how resourceful the Doctor is. With a billion
>> years to work out what is going on, they should surely have realised
>> that the Doctor wasn't punching the adamantine shield out of pure pique.
>
>Like why didn't he kick it or use his spade?
>
>> Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
>> increasing level of damage to it.
>>
>
>How did they know the monster wasn't going to kill the Doctor outright?
>Was it their intention for him to live or die? If the latter why not
>just kill him properly in a disintergrator (which the teleporter
>resembled) like the Daleks did to the Master in the TVM?
>
>> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>> then it must have been better than I at first thought! The big reveal at
>
>No. Just badly written.
>
>> the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
>
>It didn't come as a surprise because the Doctor Who website and Radio
>Times gave the entire f'ing ending away over a week ago.
>
>> such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
>> Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
>> meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
>> the Veil.
>
>I'm expecting it to be another plot-less disappointment. Everything
>being built up so that the reset button can be pressed.
>
>

REgeneration occuring wher?

[Alan]

>>The Doctor is a hybrid.....

The 8th Doctor, Paul McGann, claimed to be half-human on his mother's
side. Looks like someone found that reference, and decided to do
something with it, rather than pretend that it never happened.


--
Alan

[The Doctor]

In article <v9rm5b9nd96svons1...@4ax.com>,

We shall see.

>
>--
>Alan

[John Hall]

In message <n3fp8d$6gk$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
<doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes

>In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
>Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>>
>>Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
>>Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
>>gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
>>up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
>>of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>
>Becaue the Doctor is caught in a loop.

No he isn't. It looks like that, but he's actually being created anew
each time from the data that was stored right at the start, presumably
when the original Doctor went through the initial teleport. As far as
each new instance of the Doctor is concerned, he's experiencing the
events for the first time.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <aNKdnTQOo-rC8cbL...@eclipse.net.uk>,
Agamemnon <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

> On 29/11/2015 11:05, John Hall wrote:
> > In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
> > <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
> >> 9/10 .
> >>
> >> I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
> >>
> >
> > My own score would be a lot lower than 9.
> >
> > As usual with Steven Moffat these days, that was very clever but full of
> > holes. I think the production team needs an official Devil's Advocate,
> > someone whose job is to say: "Brilliant idea, Steven, but there are some
> > problems with it: this, this and this. Can you find a plausible way to
> > work around them?"
>
> Seconded.
>
> >
> > SPOILERS FOLLOW!
> >
> > First problem: the teleport technology used to bring the Doctor to the
> > castle is said by the Doctor to be limited to a range of one lightyear.
> > That's fundamental, as it allows the Doctor to know what the sky looks
> > like at the present time and hence to determine how far in the future he
> > is. From that he is able to work out that when he dies he must be
>
> All of which is a complete load of nonsense. He wouldn't be able to tell
> he was 7,000 years into the future just from observing the positions of
> the stars with he eyes without accurate measuring equipment. They didn't
> even look like recognisable constellations to me to begin with.

If he's less than a light year from Earth they should be; I was more
annoyed that he did it during the daytime.

After
> less than a a hundred thousand years the Doctor wouldn't have a clue
> what date it was. Like he's got information about the velocities of all
> the brightest stars in his head and when they will go nova?
>
> > brought back to life using a back-up recording that his captors must
> > have made. But where within one lightyear could his prison possibly be?
> > It seems that it would have to be on a planet or moon somewhere in our
> > solar system. A force field could perhaps keep in a breathable
> > atmosphere, but it would have to be close enough to the sun to have a
> > proper night and day, its gravity would have to be not much less than
> > Earth's (judging by the speed at which the Doctor's trinket dropped),
> > and the atmosphere would have to be transparent. I'm not sure that
> > there's anywhere other than Earth itself meeting those criteria, and not
> > even Earth would do so after a billion years had passed. Then at the end
>
> If the planet was in Earth's solar system close enough to the sun to be
> provided with enough heat and light it would affect the motions of other
> planets and therefore have been noticed even with a clocking device to
> hide it.

Or even with one.

Yeah, something other than his right hand would have been nice.

>
> > Even if they didn't, they should surely have been able to detect the
> > increasing level of damage to it.
> >
>
> How did they know the monster wasn't going to kill the Doctor outright?
> Was it their intention for him to live or die? If the latter why not
> just kill him properly in a disintergrator (which the teleporter
> resembled) like the Daleks did to the Master in the TVM?
>
> > I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
> > then it must have been better than I at first thought! The big reveal at
>
> No. Just badly written.
>
> > the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
>
> It didn't come as a surprise because the Doctor Who website and Radio
> Times gave the entire f'ing ending away over a week ago.
>
> > such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
> > Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
> > meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
> > the Veil.
>
> I'm expecting it to be another plot-less disappointment. Everything
> being built up so that the reset button can be pressed.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <MPG.30c6002...@news.eternal-september.org>,
David Barnett <dbar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Thanks!

[Pudentame]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 10:35:08 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:

Yes.

She's right after Capaldi as The Doctor and just above Jami
Reid-Quarrell as the Veil.

The TARDIS in this episode is all inside The Doctor's head and the
real Clara is dead. The one writing questions on the blackboard is The
Doctor's idealized version of Clara.

But for me, it supports my contention that the way Clara's death in
"Face the Raven" was shown is out of character.

[The Doctor]

In article <V288E9Kgj3WWFwC$@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

Ever heard of a repeat-until loop?

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-2EC5B...@news.easynews.com>,

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>In article <MPG.30c6002...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> David Barnett <dbar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>> In article <anim8rfsk-B50F45.10350829112015
>> @news.easynews.com>, anim...@cox.net says...
>> >
>> > And those rear shots of Clara were so *clearly* really Jenna that you
>> > knew her face would show before the end. My recording clipped off the
>> > end credits - did they credit her? I know they didn't at the beginning.
>>
>> Yes, the end credits did.
>
>Thanks!
>

You are wlecome. The Net rocks!

>--
>Barb May is wrong, stupid, fat, ugly, and a liar. As usual.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <bc2n5bhetqdtfds8d...@4ax.com>,

Thanks!

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-F5A5A...@news.easynews.com>,

Maybe next week everything will be revealed.

>--
>Barb May is wrong, stupid, fat, ugly, and a liar. As usual.

[Pudentame]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 09:39:35 -0800, Siri Cruz <chine...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>
>> Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
>> Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
>> gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
>> up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
>> of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>
>They were trying to extract information about the Hybrid. And failed because the
>Doctor allowed himself to be killed rather than reveal the Hybrid was not part
>Dalek but all Dalek and he was the Hybrid.

The Hybrid isn't all Dalek, because a hybrid has to be part of two
different species. The hybrid can't be half Dalek, so it can't be any
part Dalek.

The preview says "The hybrid is a creature thought to be cross-bred
from two warrior races."

The Time Lords and the Daleks are not the only two warrior races in
the galaxy.

IF The Doctor is the Hybrid, he's half Time Lord and half what else?
It's not Sontaran, they're all batch clones. Not Silurians, he doesn't
have scales. It's not Ice Warriors.

Voord, Kroton, Auton? Alpha Centauran

Raxacoricofallapatorian?

Hmmmmmm? What other race might The Doctor have taken an interest in
protecting because they're part of his genetic history?

I know Zygons. The Zygon Queen Elizabeth I was the one who survived to
marry The Doctor and The Doctor is his own grandpaw?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w09ijcjnVRs

[The Doctor]

In article <u13n5b5jb7hap4dod...@4ax.com>,

Well a mix of something.

[Siri Cruz]

In article <u13n5b5jb7hap4dod...@4ax.com>,
Pudentame <no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:

According the Doctor 8 his mother was human.

[Pudentame]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 16:35:50 -0800, Siri Cruz <chine...@yahoo.com>

In the words of the late, great Molly Ivins, "Quelle surprise!"

[The Doctor]

In article <chine.bleu-125E0...@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>,

Recalled!

>--
>:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
>'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
>God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists since we
>cannot prove the consistency. ~~ Morris Kline

[The Doctor]

In article <ca7n5bpnuirrd6oei...@4ax.com>,

En Anglais s'il vous plait.

[David Barnett]

In article <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>,
doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca says...
>
> 9/10 .
>
Boring! Boring! Boring!
Surely kids would have found this boring.

I agree with anim that this was the worst episode ever,
& considering how bad some episodes were, that was some
feat.

In spite of the above, I concede that that there were a
couple of notable ideas.

--
David Barnett

[The Doctor]

In article <MPG.30c6018...@news.eternal-september.org>,

I find this intruing and watchable again.

[anim8rfsk]

In article <MPG.30c6018...@news.eternal-september.org>,
David Barnett <dbar...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> In article <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>,
> doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca says...
> >
> > 9/10 .
> >
> Boring! Boring! Boring!
> Surely kids would have found this boring.

Kids of all ages!

>
> I agree with anim that this was the worst episode ever,

Yay me! :D

> & considering how bad some episodes were, that was some
> feat.

LOL, really.

>
> In spite of the above, I concede that that there were a
> couple of notable ideas.

That makes it all the worse, the missed opportunities.

[¡Gölök Z.L.F Buday AKA The Black Jester #theblackjester]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 03:25:54 -0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.drwho doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:

Ą9/10 .
Ą
ĄI will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
Ą
ĄPsychodrama at its best!
Ą
ĄTe Doctor supposed it instantly teleported from secret London to
Ąa mysteriuos castle 1 light year away from Earth.
Ą
ĄHe has to figure out why and how he got there
Ąand what trap awaits him.
Ą
ĄIF you have not figured out Moffat and how he likes to torture the Doctor,
ĄWatch this hour long episode.
Ą
ĄApppearently the Doctor is caught in a repeat until loop.
Ą
ĄRepeat the sequenece until you break the diamond mountain.
Ą
ĄBy the Way he must have done this billions of times until he broke the loop.
Ą
ĄWhere does he end up?
Ą
Ą
ĄHome! And next week looks interesting!
Ą
ĄYou have to pay close attention!!
Ą
ĄThis makes Midnight looks a picnic.
Ą--
ĄMember - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
ĄGod,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Ąhttp://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
ĄHappy Christmas 2015 and Merry New Year 2016

Pretentious fatuous garbage.

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-7A96C...@news.easynews.com>,

You bashers are drab.
--

Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca

God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!

http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism

[The Doctor]

In article <565baf4a...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,

Says you joker.
--

Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca

God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!

http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism

[suzeeq]

Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
> On 11/29/2015 7:55 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
>> John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
>>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>>>> 9/10 .
>>>>

>>>> I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>>>>

> Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
> Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
> gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
> up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
> of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>

>> Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?
>>> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>>> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
>> No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
>> ever" record in, er, record time.
>>
>
> OK, so then I'm not the only one who had *serious* issues with this
> episode. :-/

I was lost during most of it. I'll just presume that a lot of it won't
be important to the finale next week. If it is, then I'll read about it.

[The Doctor]

Well watch each detail carefully.

[suzeeq]

There were way too many details to keep track of.

[Your Name]

In article
<chine.bleu-125E0...@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>, Siri Cruz

Yeah, but that's the crappy Americanised movie, which everyone knows is
best ignored as much as possible.

[Arthur Lipscomb]

Yeah, but they didn't really do anything with them. In seasons past
they'd come up with a good idea and write a good story around it. Now
they come up with a good idea and write a mediocre story around it.

[John Hall]

In message <aNKdnTQOo-rC8cbL...@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
<agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> writes

>The confession dial he was locked into was also on Gallifrey.

Ah yes, I must have subconsciously tried to expunge the Confession Dial
from my mind. It seems to exist purely as a plot device. Why should Time
Lords be required to have a Confession Dial? What would be the point?
And even if they /were/ required to have one, wouldn't the Doctor - who
has rebelled against the Time Lords - either have never had one or
destroyed it long ago? If he did still have one, why have we never heard
of it before? And since he evidently hasn't "confessed" the identity of
the hybrid to it, even as a plot device it hardly seems necessary.

[John Hall]

In message <n3g2ui$g38$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor

<doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>In article <V288E9Kgj3WWFwC$@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
>John Hall <jo...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <n3fp8d$6gk$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
>><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>>>In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
>>>>Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
>>>>gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
>>>>up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
>>>>of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>>>
>>>Becaue the Doctor is caught in a loop.
>>
>>No he isn't. It looks like that, but he's actually being created anew
>>each time from the data that was stored right at the start, presumably
>>when the original Doctor went through the initial teleport. As far as
>>each new instance of the Doctor is concerned, he's experiencing the
>>events for the first time.
>

>Ever heard of a repeat-until loop?

Yes. This wasn't one. To have been one, it would have needed to be the
same instance of the Doctor each time.

[John Hall]

In message <MPG.30c6018...@news.eternal-september.org>, David
Barnett <dbar...@bigpond.net.au> writes

>In article <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>,
>doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca says...
>>
>> 9/10 .
>>
>Boring! Boring! Boring!
>Surely kids would have found this boring.

I don't know about boring, but it was certainly unremittingly very grim.

>
>I agree with anim that this was the worst episode ever,
>& considering how bad some episodes were, that was some
>feat.

It wasn't to my taste, but I felt that it was nowhere near as bad as
that. "Sleep No More" was far worse, for instance.

>
>In spite of the above, I concede that that there were a
>couple of notable ideas.
>

Yes, there were some great ideas. If only they could have been fitted
together without leaving cracks. I think Steven Moffat has perhaps
become over-ambitious. His earlier episodes such as "Girl in the
Fireplace" and "Blink" also had great ideas but worked far better
because they were much less complex.

[The Doctor]

Open your mind. You can figure this out.

[The Doctor]

In article <n3go4i$l4m$1...@dont-email.me>,

Such is today's literature.

[The Doctor]

In article <2iL0xQA6rBXWFwuE@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

IN this case confess to survive.

[The Doctor]

In article <NA9aZxEgYCXWFw6r@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

John Hall <jo...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <n3g2ui$g38$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>>In article <V288E9Kgj3WWFwC$@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
>>John Hall <jo...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <n3fp8d$6gk$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
>>><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>>>>In article <n3faac$ou$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>Arthur Lipscomb <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Why even create such an elaborate pointless trap in the first place?
>>>>>Sure they are free of the doctor for a couple of billion years until he
>>>>>gets free, hops in his *time machine* and it's as if he was never locked
>>>>>up in the first place. He doesn't even have to suffer from the trauma
>>>>>of spending a billion years there since he won't remember it.
>>>>
>>>>Becaue the Doctor is caught in a loop.
>>>
>>>No he isn't. It looks like that, but he's actually being created anew
>>>each time from the data that was stored right at the start, presumably
>>>when the original Doctor went through the initial teleport. As far as
>>>each new instance of the Doctor is concerned, he's experiencing the
>>>events for the first time.
>>
>>Ever heard of a repeat-until loop?
>
>Yes. This wasn't one. To have been one, it would have needed to be the
>same instance of the Doctor each time.

There is. Please observe again.

>--
>John Hall
> "Honest criticism is hard to take,
> particularly from a relative, a friend,
> an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

[The Doctor]

In article <kAmQp3FMgCXWFw$B@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

John Hall <jo...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <MPG.30c6018...@news.eternal-september.org>, David
>Barnett <dbar...@bigpond.net.au> writes
>>In article <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>,
>>doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca says...
>>>
>>> 9/10 .
>>>
>>Boring! Boring! Boring!
>>Surely kids would have found this boring.
>
>I don't know about boring, but it was certainly unremittingly very grim.
>
>>
>>I agree with anim that this was the worst episode ever,
>>& considering how bad some episodes were, that was some
>>feat.
>
>It wasn't to my taste, but I felt that it was nowhere near as bad as
>that. "Sleep No More" was far worse, for instance.
>
>>
>>In spite of the above, I concede that that there were a
>>couple of notable ideas.
>>
>Yes, there were some great ideas. If only they could have been fitted
>together without leaving cracks. I think Steven Moffat has perhaps
>become over-ambitious. His earlier episodes such as "Girl in the
>Fireplace" and "Blink" also had great ideas but worked far better
>because they were much less complex.

He was subordinate to RTD.

>--
>John Hall
> "Honest criticism is hard to take,
> particularly from a relative, a friend,
> an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

[The Doctor]

I saw BBC holding the copyrights!

[Pudentame]

Not if it's written in C++. You just call another instance from the
appropriate library file for each iteration.

[The Doctor]

In article <debp5bptjau22ari6...@4ax.com>,

What about objective C?

[Your Name]

In article <2iL0xQA6rBXWFwuE@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>, John Hall

<john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <aNKdnTQOo-rC8cbL...@eclipse.net.uk>, Agamemnon
> <agam...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> writes
> >
> >The confession dial he was locked into was also on Gallifrey.
>
> Ah yes, I must have subconsciously tried to expunge the Confession Dial
> from my mind. It seems to exist purely as a plot device. Why should Time
> Lords be required to have a Confession Dial? What would be the point?
> And even if they /were/ required to have one, wouldn't the Doctor - who
> has rebelled against the Time Lords - either have never had one or
> destroyed it long ago? If he did still have one, why have we never heard
> of it before? And since he evidently hasn't "confessed" the identity of
> the hybrid to it, even as a plot device it hardly seems necessary.

We have heard of the Confession Dial before ... the silly female
"Master" was waffling on about it in an earlier episode. :-)

[Your Name]

In article <debp5bptjau22ari6...@4ax.com>, Pudentame
<no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:

Even in many other programming languages you can recursively call a
subroutine from within itself with different parameters being passed
... at least until you run out of stack space to store the return
addresses after the subroutine has completed. :-)

For example in BASIC you could have:

1 LET X = 1
2 GOSUB 10
3 END

10 LET X = X + 1
11 GOSUB 10
12 RETURN

Each call to the subroutine has a new value of X, although when the
subroutine completes (impossible in the simple example), the return
doesn't recall the previous value of X. Something like Pascal or C will
though, if it's a local variable.

[Nawskrad]

Or never, if you use a *real* programming language (Lisp) and thus have
tail call optimization. ;)

[The Doctor]

And C?

[The Doctor]

And prolog?

[Saint George]

On 29/11/2015 03:25 am, The Doctor wrote:
> 9/10 .
>
> I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>

> Psychodrama at its best!

>
> Te Doctor supposed it instantly teleported from secret London to

> a mysteriuos castle 1 light year away from Earth.
>

> He has to figure out why and how he got there

> and what trap awaits him.

>
> IF you have not figured out Moffat and how he likes to torture the Doctor,

> Watch this hour long episode.
>
> Apppearently the Doctor is caught in a repeat until loop.

>
> Repeat the sequenece until you break the diamond mountain.
>

> By the Way he must have done this billions of times until he broke the loop.
>

> Where does he end up?

>
>
> Home! And next week looks interesting!
>

> You have to pay close attention!!
>

> This makes Midnight looks a picnic.
>

Pretentious nonsence

[Bill Jillians]

In message <anim8rfsk-54F5F...@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> writes
>In article <CKShKnECwtWWFwCG@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,
> John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <n3dr82$d90$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
>> <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes

>> >9/10 .
>> >
>> >I will never give out perfect scores unless the episode is excpetional.
>> >
>>

>Lucky that THAT room doesn't reset, isn't it?
>>
>> I suppose if the episode could provoke such a lot of thought on my part,
>> then it must have been better than I at first thought!
>
>No, whatever you thought, it's far worse, shattering last week's "worst
>ever" record in, er, record time.
>

> The big reveal at
>> the end didn't come as a great surprise. Only the Time Lords combine
>> such a high level of technology with such a high level of sadism!
>> Anyway, I'm looking forward to next week, when it seems we'll get to
>> meet a lot more characters than just the Doctor, his imagined Clara, and
>> the Veil.
>

Jeez ... looks like half the newsgroup got out of bed on the wrong side
this morning.

I really enjoyed that episode. One of the things about it was the Doctor
made assumptions that proved to be wrong as time went by and he became
accustomed to his environment. When he first stepped out of the
transporter we saw that he thought his captor was there ... but we never
saw any captor. He also thought he had travelled 1 light year.
However since we did not see the first iteration of the Doctor's stay at
the castle and the Doctor is now code on a hard drive that keeps running
I don't think there is any way be can say how far he has travelled.
Since it is no longer the original transmat that restores the Doctor.
We know this is not the 1st iteration because we see the burning hand of
the prior iteration energising the equipment.

Other problems that people haven't considered are the skulls of the
prior iterations in the water. After a hundred billion iterations the
skulls would be out of the water and forming a mountain of their own.

Since the Doctor may or may not be in physical space the movement of the
stars to show the amount of time that has passed is really just a device
to show how the doctor is chipping away at the diamond wall. Certainly
the presence of "Death" and the way time stops (including the flys)
suggests he is not in physical space at all but possibly some kind of
Time Lord construct. Given the subject matter of next weeks episode I
would say this is most likely.

--
Bill Jillians

Idlehands admits how dumb he is.
"Thank god we are as fucking stupid as the British, that is if the chicken
fucker and binky are any representation."

[anim8rfsk]

In article <HevbvJD8...@btinternet.com>,

And yet he starts out saying he's less than a light year from Earth (the
range of that model of transporter) and in the same time zone he just
left (he can tell by looking at all those stars visible in the daylight
sky). So unless the thing started with him thinking he's in the past
... it makes no sense no matter what. It's just terrible writing.

>
> Other problems that people haven't considered are the skulls of the
> prior iterations in the water. After a hundred billion iterations the
> skulls would be out of the water and forming a mountain of their own.
>

The enemies of language at Oxford Dictionaries say the British have
finally tossed out their silly incorrect definition of 'billion' and
accepted the colonies' number, one thousand million. 1,000,000,000. At
an average of 7000 years per iteration, it only takes 140,000 times to
hit a billion. So we're not into hundreds of billions of iterations;
we're barely into hundreds of thousands. Still, that would be a big
stack of skulls.

--
New sig pending

[suzeeq]

I thought it was the Brits who call it 1 thousand million and the US 1
billion...? Or are you teasing?

[anim8rfsk]

In article <n3ks7b$g7r$2...@news.albasani.net>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com>
wrote:

No, I'm quite serious

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/words/how-many-is-a-billion

"In British English, a billion used to be equivalent to a million
million (i.e. 1,000,000,000,000), while in American English it has
always equated to a thousand million (i.e. 1,000,000,000). British
English has now adopted the American figure, though, so that a billion
equals a thousand million in both varieties of English."

>
> > At
> > an average of 7000 years per iteration, it only takes 140,000 times to
> > hit a billion. So we're not into hundreds of billions of iterations;
> > we're barely into hundreds of thousands. Still, that would be a big
> > stack of skulls.
> >

--
New sig pending

[Mike M]

You're mistaking the length of an iteration. The first instance we see is
after 7,000 years but there's already a lakebed thick with skulls. Since it
only takes the dying Doctor a couple of days to crawl back to the teleport,
most likely all the time from emergence to the hammer blow is only a few
hours, at most a day or two. So you aren't talking 1 every 7000 years.
You're talking 100 - 180 times a year.

--
"In 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasn't
important."

[John Hall]

In message <anim8rfsk-9F619...@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> writes

>In article <HevbvJD8...@btinternet.com>,
> Bill Jillians <willaim.j...@btinternet.com> wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> Other problems that people haven't considered are the skulls of the
>> prior iterations in the water. After a hundred billion iterations the
>> skulls would be out of the water and forming a mountain of their own.
>>
>The enemies of language at Oxford Dictionaries say the British have
>finally tossed out their silly incorrect definition of 'billion' and
>accepted the colonies' number, one thousand million. 1,000,000,000. At
>an average of 7000 years per iteration, it only takes 140,000 times to
>hit a billion. So we're not into hundreds of billions of iterations;
>we're barely into hundreds of thousands. Still, that would be a big
>stack of skulls.
>

I assumed that, although the first iteration they showed us happened to
be 7,000 years in the future, they would have occurred much more
frequently than one every 7,000 years. From the Time Lords' point of
view, the point of the iterations seems to be that during one of them
the Doctor might reveal the identity of the Hybrid, and so they would
want to fit in as many as possible. I'd been assuming that one would
almost immediately following the previous one, with minimal clean-up
time being needed in between them. And since the Doctor seems to live
for only a day or so in each one, they might well fit in a hundred in a
year. So we could be into hundreds of billions.

[Your Name]

In article <n3ks7b$g7r$2...@news.albasani.net>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com>
wrote:
> anim8rfsk wrote:
> >

> > The enemies of language at Oxford Dictionaries say the British have
> > finally tossed out their silly incorrect definition of 'billion' and
> > accepted the colonies' number, one thousand million. 1,000,000,000.
>
> I thought it was the Brits who call it 1 thousand million and the US 1
> billion...? Or are you teasing?

I properly correct English "one billion" was, is, and always will be
defined as one million-million.

Ones
Tens
Hundreds
Thousands
Tens of thousands
Hundreds of thousands
Millions (thousands of thousands)
Tens of millions
Hundreds of millions
Thousands of millions
Billions (millions of millions)
Tens of billions
Hundreds of billions
Thousands of billlions
Millions of billions
Trillions (billions of billions)
Tens of trillions
...


The silly garbagised definition of "billion" used in America was simply
so that their over-egoed rich twits could make themselves look better
then they really were. ;-)

[anim8rfsk]

In article <QHdPGvGGufXWFwoF@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

It's so poorly written it's hard to argue, but I thought the "first"
iteration, at least the first we saw, took 7000 years, so I just grabbed
that as an average.

--
New sig pending

[anim8rfsk]

In article <dc6csf...@mid.individual.net>,

I think all we can be sure of is that this was so poorly written and
directed that we just can't know.

--
New sig pending

[Pudentame]

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 18:55:37 +1300, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
wrote:

How much stack space in a nethersphere?

[Pudentame]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015 01:09:19 -0500, Nawskrad <naws...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

REAL men use Fortran.

If you can't write it in Fortran, write it in 360 assembler.

If you can't write it in 360 assembler, it doesn't need to be written.

[The Doctor]

In article <n3kpmb$r2$2...@dont-email.me>,

Saint George is a gabberwakky.

[The Doctor]

In article <HevbvJD8...@btinternet.com>,
Bill Jillians <willaim.j...@btinternet.com> wrote:

The beauty of the word - Not everyone agrees.

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-9F619...@news.easynews.com>,

REcall he beems into the Confession Dial which
Ashildr has in her hand.

>>
>> Other problems that people haven't considered are the skulls of the
>> prior iterations in the water. After a hundred billion iterations the
>> skulls would be out of the water and forming a mountain of their own.
>>
>The enemies of language at Oxford Dictionaries say the British have
>finally tossed out their silly incorrect definition of 'billion' and
>accepted the colonies' number, one thousand million. 1,000,000,000. At
>an average of 7000 years per iteration, it only takes 140,000 times to
>hit a billion. So we're not into hundreds of billions of iterations;
>we're barely into hundreds of thousands. Still, that would be a big
>stack of skulls.
>
>--
>New sig pending

[The Doctor]

In article <n3ks7b$g7r$2...@news.albasani.net>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:

Used to.

>> At
>> an average of 7000 years per iteration, it only takes 140,000 times to
>> hit a billion. So we're not into hundreds of billions of iterations;
>> we're barely into hundreds of thousands. Still, that would be a big
>> stack of skulls.
>>

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-9F13F...@news.easynews.com>,

Sad but true.

>>
>> > At
>> > an average of 7000 years per iteration, it only takes 140,000 times to
>> > hit a billion. So we're not into hundreds of billions of iterations;
>> > we're barely into hundreds of thousands. Still, that would be a big
>> > stack of skulls.
>> >
>
>--
>New sig pending

Up to you.

[The Doctor]

In article <dc6csf...@mid.individual.net>,
Mike M <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:

over some time.

>--
>"In 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasn't
>important."

[The Doctor]

In article <QHdPGvGGufXWFwoF@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>,

Also we knew it took several O(10^9) iterations to break through.

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-32235...@news.easynews.com>,

Poorly Writter? Midnight and Lazarus Experiment
are better examples of poorly written.

[The Doctor]

In article <anim8rfsk-79640...@news.easynews.com>,

We saw possibly the 7000th iteration.

[The Doctor]

In article <s76s5bpdkul17h4jc...@4ax.com>,

Frotran derived BCPL derived B derived C .

[The Doctor]

Very little or infinite.

[Your Name]

In article <756s5bdkroeoti6cr...@4ax.com>, Pudentame

<no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 18:55:37 +1300, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
> wrote:
> >In article <debp5bptjau22ari6...@4ax.com>, Pudentame
> ><no....@no.where.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:34:08 +0000, John Hall
> >> <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >In message <n3g2ui$g38$1...@ns2.nl2k.ab.ca>, The Doctor
> >> ><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
> >> >>

> >> >>Ever heard of a repeat-until loop?
> >> >
> >> >Yes. This wasn't one. To have been one, it would have needed to be the
> >> >same instance of the Doctor each time.
> >>
> >> Not if it's written in C++. You just call another instance from the
> >> appropriate library file for each iteration.
> >
> >Even in many other programming languages you can recursively call a
> >subroutine from within itself with different parameters being passed
> >... at least until you run out of stack space to store the return
> >addresses after the subroutine has completed. :-)
> >
> >For example in BASIC you could have:
> >
> > 1 LET X = 1
> > 2 GOSUB 10
> > 3 END
> >
> > 10 LET X = X + 1
> > 11 GOSUB 10
> > 12 RETURN
> >
> >Each call to the subroutine has a new value of X, although when the
> >subroutine completes (impossible in the simple example), the return
> >doesn't recall the previous value of X. Something like Pascal or C will
> >though, if it's a local variable.
>
> How much stack space in a nethersphere?

Probably not much if it is failing, and whatever space there is may not
be reliable.

[Your Name]

In article <s76s5bpdkul17h4jc...@4ax.com>, Pudentame

Fortran is for pansies ... *real* men use Cobol. ;-)

> If you can't write it in Fortran, write it in 360 assembler.
>
> If you can't write it in 360 assembler, it doesn't need to be written.

Nah. You should be programming at the binary level: 1010 1100 1011 ...
or if you really want a challenge, you should write your progams in
Turtle / Logo. ;-)

[suzeeq]

I just call it a billion in either language...

[Pudentame]

It seems to me from the dialog, that he's in the right place, but the
time appears to be wrong. He figures out during the episode that he's
only there for a short while, but there have already been 7,000 years
of iterations before him and that he has to keep repeating the cycle
until he can punch through the diamond wall.

Someone else speculated that the rift - the notorious crack in time
which leads to the pocket universe wherein Gallifrey is hidden is
within one light year of earth. Looking up from the top of the tower
is looking out to the sky of Gallifrey and up through the crack in
time at the stars without.

The stars being wrong are one of the clues that he uses to decipher
the problem.

>Other problems that people haven't considered are the skulls of the
>prior iterations in the water. After a hundred billion iterations the
>skulls would be out of the water and forming a mountain of their own.
>

The skulls are another clue to the repetitious nature of the problem.
Every time he carries the skull he found in the teleporter room up to
the top of the tower, that's a clue to the nature of the problem, but
the skull falls down into the water at the base of the tower. How many
iterations it will take before the pile of skulls makes a mountain
that protrudes from the water depends on how deep the water is in the
first place.

How many skulls would it take to fill the Challenger Deeps?

>Since the Doctor may or may not be in physical space the movement of the
>stars to show the amount of time that has passed is really just a device
>to show how the doctor is chipping away at the diamond wall. Certainly
>the presence of "Death" and the way time stops (including the flys)
>suggests he is not in physical space at all but possibly some kind of
>Time Lord construct. Given the subject matter of next weeks episode I
>would say this is most likely.

I too thought it was a good episode, and enjoyed it despite the
various nits to be picked.

[Pudentame]

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:25:30 -0700, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:

>anim8rfsk wrote:

>>>

>> The enemies of language at Oxford Dictionaries say the British have
>> finally tossed out their silly incorrect definition of 'billion' and
>> accepted the colonies' number, one thousand million. 1,000,000,000.
>
>I thought it was the Brits who call it 1 thousand million and the US 1
>billion...? Or are you teasing?
>

Apparently the growth of international banking has caused the Brits to
adopt the same definition used by the rest of the world.

[Pudentame]

On Wed, 02 Dec 2015 09:22:03 +1300, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
wrote:

>In article <n3ks7b$g7r$2...@news.albasani.net>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com>
>wrote:
>> anim8rfsk wrote:
>> >
>> > The enemies of language at Oxford Dictionaries say the British have
>> > finally tossed out their silly incorrect definition of 'billion' and
>> > accepted the colonies' number, one thousand million. 1,000,000,000.
>>
>> I thought it was the Brits who call it 1 thousand million and the US 1
>> billion...? Or are you teasing?
>
>I properly correct English "one billion" was, is, and always will be
>defined as one million-million.
>
> Ones
> Tens
> Hundreds
> Thousands
> Tens of thousands
> Hundreds of thousands
> Millions (thousands of thousands)
> Tens of millions
> Hundreds of millions
> Thousands of millions

You skipped Tens of Thousands of Millions
Hundreds of Thousands of Millions

> Billions (millions of millions)
> Tens of billions
> Hundreds of billions
> Thousands of billlions
> Millions of billions
> Trillions (billions of billions)
> Tens of trillions
> ...
>
>
>The silly garbagised definition of "billion" used in America was simply
>so that their over-egoed rich twits could make themselves look better
>then they really were. ;-)

It's not just the U.S., it's the rest of world. The UK was the odd man
out.

The European banks use the "American" definition of a billion. Britian
changed to make it easier to convert Pounds to Euros and vice versa.

[Pudentame]

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 13:23:09 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:

The iteration didn't take 7,000 years, it only took some hours, at
most a couple of days.

We joined the story at an iteration 7000 in the future. If you figure
each iteration for 2 days, 1,277,500 iterations have already taken
place before then.

By the time he breaks through the wall "more than a billion years"
have passed. If each iteration takes 2 days that's 182,500,000,000
iterations.

Just add another 3 zeros if you insist on the obsolete definition of a
billion.

[The Doctor]

Well 1 billon should be a billion billion while 1 milliard should be
a thousand billion.

[The Doctor]

In article <49ms5b5nsk01evngr...@4ax.com>,

rated 9.7/10 on imdb.com

[The Doctor]

In article <gens5bhgeickac3s1...@4ax.com>,

Either that or metric.

[The Doctor]

In article <l3os5bpg431uq83ia...@4ax.com>,

The first iteration should have a neat picture of Clara.

[The Doctor]

In article <021220151412080655%Your...@YourISP.com>,

You are ancient.

[Nawskrad]

That's pretty kooky. If you define a billion to be its own square it
will be forced to be either zero or one.

[The Doctor]

In article <n3lq4s$lmq$2...@dont-email.me>,

Do you numbers standard?

[Nawskrad]

?SYNTAX ERROR
READY

[The Doctor]

In article <n3lq9n$lmq$3...@dont-email.me>,

Looks like that came from null space.