Farscape
Sergey Bukhman
Farscape is not sci-fi.
Farscape is a better Star Wars than Star Wars ever was.
--
Sergey
I heartily endorse this product and/or service.
Podkayne Fries
<ser...@netropolis.net> wrote:
>
>Farscape is not sci-fi.
>
>Farscape is a better Star Wars than Star Wars ever was.
>
FARSCAPE is space opera, and very entertaining. Mindless fluff has its
place,too.
>
>I heartily endorse this product and/or service.
What he said.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
Those of you who think you know everything are
very annoying to those of us who do.
2 Funkee
--
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List #48845580
Sergey Bukhman <ser...@netropolis.net> wrote in message
news:3876B90B...@netropolis.net...
>
> Farscape is not sci-fi.
>
> Farscape is a better Star Wars than Star Wars ever was.
>
> --
> Sergey
Sergey Bukhman
2 Funkee partly wrote:
*metalic wheeze*
>
*metalic wheeze*
>
> Son,
I am your father!
--
Sergey
"Zed wantd nookie and the brother of brothers blame her for the
destruction of their planet."
-Dan Tropea
Sergey Bukhman
Quiet Desperation wrote:
>
> In article <3876B90B...@netropolis.net>, Sergey Bukhman
> <ser...@netropolis.net> wrote:
>
> > Farscape is not sci-fi.
>
> Wait... I thought Farscape *was* sci-fi, and that what it wasn't was
> science fiction, or was it?
If the definition of sci-fi includes fantasy, then yes, it is sci-fi.
Then so is Star Wars and Xena: The Warrior Princes.
Quiet Desperation
WWS
Sergey Bukhman wrote:
> If the definition of sci-fi includes fantasy, then yes, it is sci-fi.
> Then so is Star Wars and Xena: The Warrior Princes.
Let's see if I can remember all the terms that have been tossed around
on RAST the last couple of years:
Sub topics under the heading of SF
Hard Science Fiction
Science Fiction
Sci - Fi
Skiffy
Space Opera
Speculative Fiction
Speculative Fantasy
Xena should fit near the bottom, Star Wars is definitely Space
Opera, and everything else is what we get to argue about on the
ng's.
(This is about where Gharlane usually pops in.)
_______________________________________________________WWS____________
Michael Martinez
>Mindless fluff has its place,too.
So that's how you rationalize your place in the universe.
Milt Stevens
Sergey Bukhman wrote in message <3876FC84...@netropolis.net>...
>> Wait... I thought Farscape *was* sci-fi, and that what it wasn't was
>> science fiction, or was it?
>
>If the definition of sci-fi includes fantasy, then yes, it is sci-fi.
>Then so is Star Wars and Xena: The Warrior Princes.
>
enough to be called sci-fi." There can be good hard science fiction, soft
science fiction, space opera, or fantasy. However, sci-fi is always crap.
Karen Kaiser
to do with outer space or et is Scifi.
> In article <3876B90B...@netropolis.net>, Sergey Bukhman
> <ser...@netropolis.net> wrote:
>
> > Farscape is not sci-fi.
>
Karen Kaiser
Michael Martinez
>Scifi is science fiction. it's a shorting of the two words. And anything
>to do with outer space or et is Scifi.
You're apparently not aware of SF snobdom. Well, "scifi" was coined in the
1950s or 1960s by someone whom many longtime SF fans consider to have been a
schlock producer (I forget his name -- the story isn't THAT important to me),
so they've been eschewing the term ever since.
It isn't so much people looking down their noses at the rest of the world as
not wanting works they love and cherish, authors whom they admire, to be
associated with the crud that came out of Hollywood -- much of it intended
only to capitalize on then-current fads. Science fiction is a bit more
serious and thoughtful. Maybe the reaction is due in part to the fact that
the rest of the world used to stick its nose up in the air toward science
fiction, and it's taken decades for the genre to develop serious credibility.
So, anyway, it's uncool to say "SciFi" around the people who know the
difference (and they don't wear name-tags to keep you informed of that fact),
and it's cool to say "SF" (as in Speculative Fiction) or "SF&F" (as in Science
Fiction and Fantasy).
You can also apply to become a SMOF, but you have to know where to go to get
the application forms, and to whom they are submitted, and what the qualifying
rituals are. About the only worthy thing in that, maybe, is you could meet
some really nice (and not necessarily stuck up) SMOFBabes -- if that's your
cup of tea.
Sergey Bukhman
Dear Mr. Martinez (if that indeed is your REAL name)
please do not hack up this thread
with high school cafeteria style one liners.
Thank you.
Michael Martinez
>Michael Martinez wrote:
>>
>> In article <3876bed7...@news.fairfieldi.com>, fr...@fairfieldi.com wrote:
>> >Mindless fluff has its place,too.
>>
>> So that's how you rationalize your place in the universe.
>
>Dear Mr. Martinez (if that indeed is your REAL name)
[snip]
If you're bucking for a detention slip, I don't babysit.
Sergey Bukhman
Sergey Bukhman wrote:
>
> Michael Martinez wrote:
> >
> > In article <3876bed7...@news.fairfieldi.com>, fr...@fairfieldi.com wrote:
> > >Mindless fluff has its place,too.
> >
> > So that's how you rationalize your place in the universe.
>
> Dear Mr. Martinez (if that indeed is your REAL name)
> please do not hack up this thread
> with high school cafeteria style one liners.
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Sergey
>
> "Zed wantd nookie and the brother of brothers blame her for the
> destruction of their planet."
> -Dan Tropea
You know, I just realized I made a whole post out of two memes (one of
which I'm proud to call my own)!
And my .sig is definitely WARNING!!! CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED!!! worthy.
Quiet Desperation
> Scifi is science fiction. it's a shorting of the two words. And anything
> to do with outer space or et is Scifi.
>
> > In article <3876B90B...@netropolis.net>, Sergey Bukhman
> > <ser...@netropolis.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Farscape is not sci-fi.
> >
> > Wait... I thought Farscape *was* sci-fi, and that what it wasn't was
> > science fiction, or was it?
> >
> >
>
>
Note to self. Use more smileys.
Quiet Desperation
<ser...@netropolis.net> wrote:
> And my .sig is definitely WARNING!!! CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED!!! worthy.
Is that a good thing?
My cat walked on the keyboard once and all I got was "fsgd etyasds
dhjahudauidhauidhaiuhiud dasaduhfa", and he spelled "dasaduhfa" wrong.
Gharlane of Eddore
>
> Son, without Star Wars there wouldn't be a Farscape.
>
SERIOUSLY?
( Mr. Peabody, warm up the Way-Back Machine; we have to go cause a
couple of fatal accidents on location while they're shooting
"AMERICAN GRAFFITI." )
Geoduck
Eddore) wrote:
Note to Gharlane the Spelling Nitpicker: it's 'WABAC'.
--
Geoduck
geo...@usa.net
http://www.olywa.net/cook
Gharlane of Eddore
In <3876B90B...@netropolis.net>, Sergey Bukhman
<ser...@netropolis.net> wrote:
>
> Farscape is not sci-fi.
>
Quiet Desperation wrote:
>
> Wait... I thought Farscape *was* sci-fi, and that what it wasn't was
> science fiction, or was it?
>
Sergey Bukhman wrote:
>
> If the definition of sci-fi includes fantasy, then yes, it is sci-fi.
> Then so is Star Wars and Xena: The Warrior Princes.
>
In <387746C2...@tyler.net> WWS <wsch...@tyler.net> said:
>
> Let's see if I can remember all the terms that have been tossed around
> on RAST the last couple of years:
>
> Sub topics under the heading of SF
>
> Hard Science Fiction
> Science Fiction
> Sci - Fi
> Skiffy
> Space Opera
> Speculative Fiction
> Speculative Fantasy
>
>
> Xena should fit near the bottom, Star Wars is definitely Space
> Opera, and everything else is what we get to argue about on the
> ng's.
>
> (This is about where Gharlane usually pops in.)
>
*POP*
Well, my current thinking on the subject is easily explicated...
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so let's save some
verbiage, here....
| |
| |
| |
| SPECULATIVE FICTION |
| ( fiction set in a reality |
| / that does not exist ) |
| / \ |
| / \ |
| FANTASY SCIENCE FICTION |
| ( fiction which ( Fiction based on a |
| cannot occur ) projection of current |
| | \___________ knowledge which is |
| | | legitimately defensible ) |
| CLASSIC FANTASY | / \ |
| ( elves, magic, wizards, | / \ |
| "Social Security" ) | SOFT SF HARD SF |
| Emphasis on mythic | ( one or more ( Based on |
| archetypes and quests | presumptions; stuff we know |
| ________| ESP, FTL, we'll be able |
| | or one major to build ) |
| SCI-FI departure Emphasis on |
| ---- ( Fantasy from known checkable math, |
| / with reality. ) logic, and info; |
| SKIFFY SF props Emphasis on characters think |
| ( largely substituted human reaction. and solve. |
| excrement ) for "magic.") and action. | |
| | | | | |
| +--------------------------------------------------------+ |
| | SPACE OPERA --- can be SkiFfy to Sci-Fi to Hard SF | |
| +--------------------------------------------------------+ |
"SPECULATIVE FICTION" would include all non-real-world fiction with
fantastical elements. Things like "PT 109," "DYNASTY," "MIAMI VICE,"
"THE COSBY SHOW," "SIXTY MINUTES," and anything where Peter
Jennings tries to convince us he knows anything all count as
"Speculative Fiction," since they deal with a world that does
not exist but might be fun to visit, if only for the horror.
"FANTASY" would include all utterly impossible fictional frameworks,
ranging from "I LOVE LUCY" through "I DREAM OF JEANNIE" to Sarah
Brady's speech to the Democratic National Convention, or even more
horrific, "FRIENDS."
TV-Fantasy is normally inordinately putrid; happy exceptions in
recent years include "BUFFY" and "ANGEL."
Respectable class efforts like "BRIMSTONE" have been made.
"CLASSIC FANTASY" would be the great works that transcend time, era,
and review by litterateurs; Homer, Vergil, Aristophanes, Tolkien,
Spenser, Lonnrott, Malory, and their ilk; numerous religious works
fall in this category as well. This category can range from
Gilgamesh to simplistic archetype exercises such as Michael Landon
playing a Magic Angel.
I rate "XENA" as good Classic Fantasy, and "STAR WARS" as an also-ran.
"SCI-FI" is Fantasy that lifts props from Science Fiction without
laying the groundwork or establishing the need for technology.
( example; Crichton could just as easily be a human transported
across the Rainbow Bridge to Asgard, being Earnestly Interviewed
by Loki; we haven't seen any use of actual technology that can't
be handled just as easily with Magic Spells; he has a Magic Spell
to get home with, but it's clouded until the Right Time. At least
Manning had the class to slip "Froonium" in as *intended* as guff. )
Most of the "TREK" products range from "Fantasy" to "Sci-Fi," with
occasional coherent efforts that slip across the line into being
something that vaguely resembles real Science Fiction. Of course,
none of these occasional efforts have been seen on "VOYAGER," or
on a show that Braga or Taylor worked on.
"SKIFFY" is something that puts on airs about being "Science Fiction"
and isn't; unlike some "Sci-Fi" and some "Fantasy," it is almost
never respectable, and is only rarely worthwhile. It's a sort of
illegitimate offspring of "Sci-Fi," and is normally engaged in by
Production Suits with delusions of sapience. Typical examples
would include the late and unlamented "PREY," "SPACE: ABYSMAL AND
BORING," "SINKQUEST," and "EARTH 2." I believe that "PREY"
probably carries the all-time high score for insegrevious putridity,
although the others cited are certainly close runners-up.
"THIRD ROCK" is SkiFfy. "MY FAVORITE MARTIAN" was SkiFfy.
"GET SMART" was often SkiFfy.
"Hard Science Fiction" is written by people who know enough of science
and technology to know what is possible, and create a narrative milieu
based on the availability of something we haven't got yet, but can have.
VERY few people do "Hard Science Fiction" without slipping over the
edge here and there, so the real thing is very rare indeed. On TV,
the only two examples I can think of offhand are "MEN INTO SPACE"
and "STAR COPS."
"Soft Science Fiction" is an exercise in coherent extrapolation; given
one presumption, how would life/society/human beings be affected, and
what would they do about it? Historically, some fairly wild one-
presumption schticks have been allowed, when developed with skill and
respect by the writer involved. ( My favorite examples here are
Alfred Bester's two best books, "TIGER, TIGER" and "THE DEMOLISHED
MAN," which aside from a few noncritical props, posit only one
departure from present knowledge, the trainability of ESP powers. )
( I just re-read "THE DEMOLISHED MAN," and was amused to note that
Bester seems to have scooped the cosmetic surgery people by half
a century; they've recently been touting adjustable inflatables
that you can set to the size you're in the mood for, and avoid
silicone implants... )
The best "Soft Science Fiction" I've seen on TV that comes instantly
to mind was the old "PLAYHOUSE 90" Bradbury script, "THE SOUND OF A
DIFFERENT DRUMMER." There were, of course, several examples of
decent "Soft SF" on both incarnations of "THE TWILIGHT ZONE," and
one or two good tries on the old "OUTER LIMITS." ( And a couple
of good ones on the NOL, after the staffing shakeups. ) The
best current-production example, in my opinion, is "STARGATE SG-1,"
which is often actually worth watching.
"SCIENCE FICTION THEATER" did several hard-SF scripts, and a
number of soft-SF, and a whole bunch of Sci-Fi.
"Space Opera" can range from "CAPTAIN VIDEO" to "STAR TREK," with
stops at "SPACE RANGERS" and "QUARK." I haven't seen any Space
Opera produced to date that qualifies as "Science Fiction," but
I've certainly seen a lot that I enjoyed.
As for "FARSCAPE," it's "Kiddie-SkiFfy," but we're cutting it
some slack and calling it "Sci-Fi," since it's got Good Muppets.
( And we know that Muppets *can* be built. )
For a formalized view of this sort of thing, constructed by someone
with a bit more formal academic rigor, see the "rec.arts.sf.tv"
FAQ created by the Estimable Hines; it's in the archive sites.
===========================================================================
| |
| "If the universe were an empty canvas, how would you fill it? |
| If you were the creators of STAR TREK: VOYAGER, you'd begin with |
| bold strokes of color; you'd introduce contrast, texture, and |
| dimension.....and in the end, you'd have a masterpiece. |
| "Tonight, UPN invites you to the unveiling of something truly |
| extraordinary. ( Chakotay: "My god." Echo: <my god> ) |
| <grams UP, choral music swell> ( Kes: <indecipherable emoting> ) |
| "It's not just a season premiere, (Paris: "We're being pulled in!") |
| but rather a two-hour television event that elevates Science Fiction |
| to an Art Form. ( Janeway: "Get. My. Crew. Home." ) |
| "STAR TREK: VOYAGER. Coming up next, on UPN." |
| <grams CUT> <hard cut to opening scene, despoiled by the TV-14 |
| and UPN logos in the party-per-bend corners > |
| |
| --"VOYAGER" season opener, 3 September, 1997; a date which now |
| ranks with 7 December, 1941 in terms of sheer criminal obtusity. |
| |
===========================================================================
Rob Woodard
> [lengthy monograph]
> As for "FARSCAPE," it's "Kiddie-SkiFfy," but we're cutting it some slack and
> calling it "Sci-Fi," since it's got Good Muppets. ( And we know that Muppets
> *can* be built. )
Impressive. Most impressive. But you are not a Jedi yet...
Your entire exercise comes down to trying to draw lines around the inherently
nebulous. Can one truly draw a line between "Soft Science Fiction" and
"Sci-Fi"? I don't think even the well-respected (by me, anyway) Harlan Ellison
has come up with a reasonably defensible point at which to draw the
distinction. Ultimately, what one person classifies as "skiffy" can be seen by
another as classic Science Fantasy. That is the very definition of a
subjective viewpoint, and I don't see how we can get away from it. I can't
stand TV shows such as "Friends" and "Party of Five", but 50 million Jennifer
Aniston fans dispute my analysis.
Farscape is a Science Fiction show, because it has spaceships, aliens, and zap
guns, and I associate those things with Science Fiction. If it runs a few more
years and finally resolves one of the running plotlines (preferably dealing
with Kriess, can we finally blow him away or forgive and forget or something?),
it will in my mind qualify as Space Opera, like Babylon 5. Pedantic attempts
to denigrate a show because it doesn't match this or that criteria don't carry
any weight with me. It's not a Good Muppet that can be built and therefore
allows us to damn the show with faint praise, it's Rygel the 16th, former ruler
of 600 million Hynerians. I like Farscape, and I'm not alone.
Rob Woodard
> In <856n6...@news2.newsguy.com> "2 Funkee" <mea...@aol.com> writes:
> >
> > Son, without Star Wars there wouldn't be a Farscape.
> >
>
> SERIOUSLY?
>
> ( Mr. Peabody, warm up the Way-Back Machine; we have to go cause a
> couple of fatal accidents on location while they're shooting
> "AMERICAN GRAFFITI." )
You'll have to go back further than that, if there hadn't been a Flash
Gordon there wouldn't have been a Star Wars.
Reverend Sean O'Hara
a subset of fantasy. Classic fantasy and horror have much in common,
but they're two separate genres.
--
Reverend Sean O'Hara
You two can be an ordained minister: http://www.ulc.org/ulc
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's
game because they always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable
from - self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts
of free time." -Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"
Reverend Sean O'Hara
>
> Farscape is a Science Fiction show, because it has spaceships, aliens, and zap
> guns, and I associate those things with Science Fiction.
As much as I enjoy Farscape, it is not science fiction; there's no
real science. It's sci-fi in the same vein as Star Wars or Babylon 5.
Traci
Reverend Sean O'Hara <oha...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3878C449...@rcn.com...
> Rob Woodard wrote:
> > Farscape is a Science Fiction show, because it has spaceships,
aliens, and zap
> > guns, and I associate those things with Science Fiction.
> As much as I enjoy Farscape, it is not science fiction; there's no
> real science. It's sci-fi in the same vein as Star Wars or Babylon 5.
You mean, the translator microbes aren't based on real science? Or
StarBurst? Say it ain't so!
<innocent grin>
--
Traci (to reply, remove "NOTHANKS")
"Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold/that lies in the deep
distance..."
Genesis - A Trick of the Tail
Creator/Maintainer of the alt.tv.farscape FAQ
http://pages.prodigy.net/cailibear/alt.tv.farscapeFAQ.htm
Quiet Desperation
(Gharlane of Eddore) wrote:
> As for "FARSCAPE," it's "Kiddie-SkiFfy," but we're cutting it
> some slack and calling it "Sci-Fi," since it's got Good Muppets.
And with the new character, we now have a good moppet. :)
Sorry....
James C. Ellis
>
> In article <Fo1CK...@freenet.buffalo.edu>, Karen Kaiser <ci...@freenet.buffalo.edu> wrote:
> >Scifi is science fiction. it's a shorting of the two words. And
> >anything to do with outer space or et is Scifi.
>
> in the 1950s or 1960s by someone whom many longtime SF fans consider
> to have been a schlock producer (I forget his name -- the story isn't
> THAT important to me), so they've been eschewing the term ever since.
Hey, Michael.
Care to reiterate the reasons why _Lord of the Rings_ is neither
mediaeval or even quasi-mediaeval in tone, and then get back to us about
the snobbishness of adhering to particular definitions?
Thought not.
Biff
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare - a pumpkin with a gun.
[...] Euminides this! " - Mervyn, the Sandman #66
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Brown
Martinez) wrote:
>You're apparently not aware of SF snobdom. Well, "scifi" was coined in the
>1950s or 1960s by someone whom many longtime SF fans consider to have been a
>schlock producer (I forget his name -- the story isn't THAT important to me),
>so they've been eschewing the term ever since.
Forrest J Ackerman.
The term used to bother me until I learnt how much worse it could have
been (Hugo Gernsback's 'scientifiction' comes to mind).
Jerry Brown
Old Jedis never die,
They only fade away!
Michael Martinez
Well, "scientifiction" at least has that cozy feel of coined terminology from
the pulp days.
I can't imagine any marketing genius coming up with the Scientifiction
Network. Picture some famous person turning to the screen and saying, "This
is Scientifiction".
Sorta comes across like, "Got bovine mammary emulsion?"
DoctorSF
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A movie directed in 1969 where you'll discover the protected world of
Captain Nemo
----- Updated Files ------
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THE MATRIX
NEW : You'll also find plenty of midi files dow the movie or serial files.
Have a look for them !
Bon Surf !
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