1st Season Stargate Universe - Justice - 5 star poll -SPOILERS AHOY !
George Avalos
12-4-09 SGU
5 stars (American)
0-1 stars (honor killings)
-George
Pete B
art...@alum.calberkeley.org says...
> > The only downside I see is that Eli might be unhappy with Young. (I
> > think he guessed what happened.)
> >
> > Dan Lanciani
> > ddl@danlan.*com
>
> I would use a stronger word than guessed for Eli's understanding of what
> happened.
divined?
Pete B
says...
> > I was shocked that Young actually did it, but in retrospect he had very
> > little choice. They'll have to depend on those onboard including Eli, and
> > help from visitors via the stones. Rush lied at every turn anyway. You
> > can't function that way with one who cannot be trusted. For all we know, he
> > wouldn't have shown them the way home if he knew it. I'm sure we haven't
> > seen the last of Rush at any rate.
> >
> I also think it was telling when Rush said to Young, "You're not
> dedicated to the mission." The only way that makes sense to me is if
> Rush _still_ thinks their mission is to go exploring, not to find a way
> home.
He knows they are aiming for seven seasons.
Pete B
@nospamlycos.com says...
> Pete B <xxxh@_xsomeething.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.25854ff13...@news.usenetserver.com:
>
> > In article <4b1ad1e1$0$1615$742e...@news.sonic.net>,
> > dtr...@sonic.net says...
> >> George Avalos wrote:
> >> > "Justice"
> >> > 12-4-09 SGU
> >> >
> >> > 5 stars (American)
> >> >
> >> > 0-1 stars (honor killings)
> >> >
> >>
> >> <now waiting for all the Rush defenders to justify his framing Col.
> >> Young>
> >
> > Well rush was right - and young just proved himself to be a murderer
>
> Yeah so which is worse? What Rush did or what Young did? Was Young
> justified?
No i certainly don't think Young was justified, and what he did was
worse. Rush got him maneuvered out of the way without damage to anything
but his pride, he probably kept a copy of the data himself so he could
prove Young innocent if the rest wanted to lynch him. It got IOA lady in
place and consequently someone in the chair - who may remember good
stuff (assuming anybody remembers to tune in when the show continues).
Young the price specimen goes around beating people up he doesn't like -
has entered the realm of paranoia and essentially tried to kill Rush.
So no cookies for Young.
Dimensional Traveler
> In article <Xns9CD8F28D486ABil...@94.75.244.46>, iloveds9
> @nospamlycos.com says...
>
>>> Why do you suppose Young ordered Eli to make him a copy of the video
>>> proof of what Rush did? Who do YOU think the crew would side with?
>> They would certainly "hate" Rush for what he did but Young leaving Rush
>> on the planet is wrong, period. Hope Rush makes it back so we can see
>> how the crew reacts to what Rush and Young did.
>
> IMDB says he is in all episodes - of course that could be mis
> information. I'm expecting him to time travel back to the first episode
> in that pod which left the ship ;)
He's _credited_ in all episodes. Not the same as appearing in all of
them. But yes, he'll make it back to the Destiny at some point before
too long.
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
jewahe
> "Justice"
> 12-4-09 SGU
>
> 5 stars (American)
>
> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>
>
>
2.5.
The obligatory "put the commander on trial" episode, and it wasn't even
that well done.
I think this ep settled the argument on Rush - he's a manipulative
bastard who got what he deserved. The sad thing is that it is almost
certain that he will fix the alien ship and make a dramatic return.
--
JWH
DJensen
> DJensen wrote:
>> George Avalos wrote:
>>> "Justice"
>>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>>
>>> 5 stars (American)
>>>
>>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>
> It should. That it doesn't probably indicates this is not the show for you.
> That's valid of course. It then remains up to you whether to continue to
> watch (or post about) it.
It's pretty much the only thing about the show I don't like. SGU has
turned off plenty of people, but I'm not one of them.
--
DJensen
A Watcher
> Gisele wrote:
>> Gisele <ilov...@nospamlycos.com> wrote in
>> news:Xns9CD88994540F9il...@94.75.244.46:
>>> "George Avalos" <george...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>> news:jICdnWj0AutmDIfW...@supernews.com:
>>>
>>>> "Justice"
>>>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>>>
>>>> 5 stars (American)
>>>>
>>>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>>>>
>>> 2.0 The only good character that has a personality gets left on a
>>> dead planet.....great. Although I'll bet he gets that abandoned
>>> spaceship working. Now that will be interesting if he gets back to
>>> the Destiny and tells everyone what Young did....<g> At least, *that*
>>> would be interesting and if it happens in the next episode next year,
>>> then that might warrant a good score.
>>>
>>> Gisele
>>
>> Wanted to add that leaving the only scientist, that can help them get
>> back to Earth or survive, on a dead planet seems like a very, very
>> stupid move. Granted, Rush deserved some kind of punishment but
>> banishment is way too harsh and foolhardy. I think Rush is right,
>> Young does not know how to command.
>
> I'm not sure that "know how" is the right phrase.
>
> I think that the show has given enough hints that Young has simply lost
> the *will* to command.
>
> At some point, he obviously had Jack's confidence and earned the respect
> of those who serve under him - that signals at least some level of
> competence.
>
> He's obviously suffering some physical ailment (remember that he
> collapsed at least once before he was forced into the Destiny mission).
> Tis mysterious sickness likely undermined his confidence and sense of
> self, led to the affair with Johanson, and underpinned his reason for
> tendering his resignation from Stargate Command.
>
He was severly injured when he jumped through the gate in the first
episode. He barely survived.
erilar
jewahe <reg...@comcast.net> wrote:
> SGA had 5 seasons.
>
> Five long seasons of Teyla <shudder>.
Much worse: magic buttocks guy was in EVERY episode!
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
David V. Loewe, Jr
>George Avalos wrote:
>> "Justice"
>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>
>> 5 stars (American)
>>
>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
3.5
>2.5.
>
>The obligatory "put the commander on trial" episode, and it wasn't even
>that well done.
>
>I think this ep settled the argument on Rush - he's a manipulative
>bastard who got what he deserved. The sad thing is that it is almost
>certain that he will fix the alien ship and make a dramatic return.
"Almost"?
Carlyle is the top billed star of the show. He signed because this was
a role he could play for 5 years or more.
And...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
He is in episodes for which information has been leaked later on in the
series.
--
"...you know, it seems to me you suffer from the problem of
wanting a tailored fit in an off the rack world."
Dennis Juds
jewahe
> In article <hfgl0f$af$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, reg...@comcast.net
> says...
>> George Avalos wrote:
>>> "Justice"
>>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>>
>>> 5 stars (American)
>>>
>>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>>>
>>> -George
>>>
>>>
>> 2.5.
>>
>> The obligatory "put the commander on trial" episode, and it wasn't even
>> that well done.
>>
>> I think this ep settled the argument on Rush - he's a manipulative
>> bastard who got what he deserved.
>
>
Rush's manipulations have directly led to the death of at least 3 people
so far and the loss of 3 others (according to the numbers provided by
Dimensional Traveler). What's more, it is obvious that he would
willingly kill everyone on board Destiny.
So, yes, Rush got what he deserved.
--
JWH
David V. Loewe, Jr
Arromdee) wrote:
>Pete B <xxxh@_xsomeething.com> wrote:
>>No i certainly don't think Young was justified, and what he did was
>>worse. Rush got him maneuvered out of the way without damage to anything
>>but his pride
>
>Which is pure luck. There's no way you can decide that a certain amount
>of evidence is precisely enough to make everyone suspicious of him but not
>imprison him or treat him any more harshly than that. It's only chance
>that nothing worse happened to Young.
>
>Besides, even if you ignore the issue of harm to Young, Rush *lied in order
>to take over*.
No.
He lied in order to remove Young from his leadership position.
Wray took over leadership, not Rush.
>That's a real hazard.
--
"It's raining soup and we haven't built any soup bowls."
Dr. Jerry Pournelle
David Loewe, Jr.
>Pete B wrote:
>> reg...@comcast.net says...
>>> George Avalos wrote:
>>>> "Justice"
>>>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>>>
>>>> 5 stars (American)
>>>>
>>>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>>> 2.5.
>>>
>>> The obligatory "put the commander on trial" episode, and it wasn't even
>>> that well done.
>>>
>>> I think this ep settled the argument on Rush - he's a manipulative
>>> bastard who got what he deserved.
>>
>> Better manipulative than a murderer.
>Rush's manipulations have directly led to the death of at least 3 people
No.
>so far and the loss of 3 others (according to the numbers provided by
>Dimensional Traveler). What's more, it is obvious that he would
>willingly kill everyone on board Destiny.
>
>So, yes, Rush got what he deserved.
--
"Reading Solzhenitsyn makes it difficult to take seriously the
people in this culture who insist that Dissent has been squelched.
Brother, you have no idea."
James Lileks
Pete B
> George Avalos wrote:
> > "Justice"
> > 12-4-09 SGU
> >
> > 5 stars (American)
> >
> > 0-1 stars (honor killings)
> >
> >
> >
>
> I give it 5.0 Stars. A very interesting episode. It seems Dr. Rush
> will go to certain extremes to get his team back on mission. I don't
> condone the method that Dr. Rush use to have Col Young removed from
> command. But Col Young needs to come the realization that this crew's
> mission now is to survive and learn as much about the Ancient ship
> ?Destiny?. If he still thinks there is a way to use the ship's stargate
> to get back to Earth, he is sadly mistaken. They are stuck on this ship
> for now and they better get used to it.
>
> For someone who has severed in the military for more than twenty years,
> Col Young is not someone I would want as my commanding officer. It is
> one thing to frame someone for a crime, but it is other to deliberately
> abandon someone on a planet. Especially the one person who has the best
> chance of understanding the ship's Ancient technology. Rule one in the
> military, ?Never Leave A Man Behind?. He is putting his own personal
> problems above that of his mission. And his mission right now is to see
> that his people survive and he can best do that by having Dr. Rush and
> his team learn all they can about ?Destiny?. Once they get full access
> to all the ships areas and the ships computer system then they might
> have a chance to find a way back to Earth.
What he said!
Dimensional Traveler
> In article <hfh78g$e1s$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> stoc...@earthlink.net says...
>>>
>>> Fred Ellis
>> Rush can't be trusted. If Young can't believe anything he says then how
>> could Rush be counted on?
>
> Oh rush could be trusted if young just trusted him (and that's not glib
> - young chose to be an enemy from the start, and you don't owe enemies
> anything)
>
How did Young chose to be Rush's enemy?
--
"Dude. They've gone fractal."
Dimensional Traveler
> In article <4b1c56e9$0$1621$742e...@news.sonic.net>, dtr...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler) writes:
> | Dan Lanciani wrote:
> | > In article <MPG.258611a6...@news.usenetserver.com>, xxxh@_xsomeething.com (Pete B) writes:
> | > | In article <4b1b4552$0$1625$742e...@news.sonic.net>, dtr...@sonic.net
> | > | says...
> | > | > Pete B wrote:
> | > | > > In article <4b1ad1e1$0$1615$742e...@news.sonic.net>, dtr...@sonic.net
> | > | > >> George Avalos wrote:
> | > | > >>> "Justice"
> | > | > >>> 12-4-09 SGU
> | > | > >>>
> | > | > >>> 5 stars (American)
> | > | > >>>
> | > | > >>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
> | > | > >>>
> | > | > >>
> | > | > >> <now waiting for all the Rush defenders to justify his framing Col. Young>
> | > | > >
> | > | > > Well rush was right - and young just proved himself to be a murderer
> | > | > >
> | > | > Rush's claim was that Young "couldn't make the hard calls, the life and
> | > | > death decisions". So Young made one, to sacrifice Rush for the good of
> | > | > the rest of the Destiny's crew.
> | > | >
> | > | > So which is it? You can't have it both ways.
> | > |
> | > | Oh enough with the 'can't have it both ways'
> | > |
> | > | Rush was right young is incompetent.
> | > |
> | I disagree with you on this and you've made it clear that you don't
> | consider any military officer to be competent by definition, so let's
> | just drop it.
> |
> | > |
> | > | >Either Rush was right and
> | > | > Young can't make the hard decisions, in which case Rush comes back alive
> | > | > (no murder); or Rush is wrong, Young can make the hard decisions and
> | > | > stranded Rush to save the others (justified, no murder).
> | > |
> | > | If he was competent he would have allowed someone to sit in the chair
> | > | instead of trying to kill rush
> | >
> | > Consider the current situation. Somebody _did_ sit in the chair. Young
> | > not only didn't allow it (keeping the moral high ground) but was not in
> | > command when it happened (avoiding accusations of carelessness). Rush
> | > is at least temporarily out of the way so there is the possibility of
> | > using whatever knowledge might be gained from the chair to get home--
> | > something Rush would almost certainly try to prevent. Maybe Young isn't
> | > as incompetent as you think...
> | >
> | There's no evidence that any knowledge has been gained from the chair.
>
> That's why I said "might." At least with Rush absent there is the
> _possibility_ of benefiting from the dangerous experiment.
>
In that Rush wouldn't be there to interfere or twist the interpretation
of what he learned, yes, I agree with that.
> | The person who sat in it is, last we knew, catatonic. The medic
> | proposed a "massive dosage" of some drug and was told to do it but we
> | didn't hear anything about it after that in this episode.
>
> The drug was lorazepam, and as I said before I question the wisdom
> of a massive dose for someone in an unresponsive state. If the whole
> information download thing corresponded at all to the way real-world
> memory formation works I would question the wisdom of any dose of any
> benzodiazepine under the circumstances. IIRC the medic has said some
> odd things about medication before. I don't know if it's the character
> or the writers.
>
I would assume the writers.
Pete B
dra...@chibardun.net.invalid says...
> In article <rp1oh51b4vulmpae0...@4ax.com>,
> "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:09:54 -0500, jewahe <reg...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > >George Avalos wrote:
> >
> > >> "Justice"
> > >> 12-4-09 SGU
> > >>
> > >> 5 stars (American)
> > >>
> > >> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
> >
> >
> > >2.5.
> > >
> > >The obligatory "put the commander on trial" episode, and it wasn't even
> > >that well done.
> > >
> > >I think this ep settled the argument on Rush - he's a manipulative
> > >certain that he will fix the alien ship and make a dramatic return.
> >
> > "Almost"?
> >
> > Carlyle is the top billed star of the show. He signed because this was
> > a role he could play for 5 years or more.
> >
> > And...
> >
> >
> > S
> >
> > P
> >
> > O
> >
> > I
> >
> > L
> >
> > E
> >
> > R
> >
> >
> > S
> >
> > P
> >
> > A
> >
> > C
> >
> > E
> >
> >
> > He is in episodes for which information has been leaked later on in the
> > series.
>
> He's also listed for all 20 scheduled episodes. . .
Could be a cunning plan ;)
Dano
He didn't acquiesce to his superior wisdom of course. That of course is
what a true "leader" would have done....following the Rush logic.
TB
> In article <4b1afd41$0$1620$742ec...@news.sonic.net>, dtra...@sonic.net
> says...
>
> > > I was shocked that Young actually did it, but in retrospect he had very
> > > little choice. They'll have to depend on those onboard including Eli, and
> > > help from visitors via the stones. Rush lied at every turn anyway. You
> > > can't function that way with one who cannot be trusted. For all we know, he
> > > wouldn't have shown them the way home if he knew it. I'm sure we haven't
> > > seen the last of Rush at any rate.
>
> > I also think it was telling when Rush said to Young, "You're not
> > dedicated to the mission." The only way that makes sense to me is if
> > Rush _still_ thinks their mission is to go exploring, not to find a way
> > home.
>
> He knows they are aiming for seven seasons.
One reason that Young isn't totally dedicated to the mission is that
he's obsessed with Emily and Telford. Perhaps TJ can solve that
problem by taking off her clothes.:)
Dimensional Traveler
> In article <4b1c54ad$0$1621$742e...@news.sonic.net>, dtr...@sonic.net
> says...
>> Pete B wrote:
>>> In article <hfh3lv$oro$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> reg...@comcast.net says...
>>>
>>>> Rush's manipulations have directly led to the death of at least 3 people
>>>> Dimensional Traveler).
>>>
>> Is that claim based on a disagreement with my numbers or are you
>> disputing that Rush is responsible for them being on Destiny in the
>> first place? (Please note that I'm just asking for clarification of
>> your position, not trying to start another argument.)
>
> My position is that its not logical to trace everything to the nth
> degree. If you do do that you should hold whoever hired Rush
> responsible, not rush.
That sounds like you're evading the question. Who do _you_ think is
responsible for them being on the Destiny?
TB
> George Avalos wrote:
> > "Justice"
> > 12-4-09 SGU
>
> > 5 stars (American)
>
> > 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>
>
> 2.5.
>
> The obligatory "put the commander on trial" episode, and it wasn't even
> that well done.
>
> I think this ep settled the argument on Rush - he's a manipulative
> bastard who got what he deserved. The sad thing is that it is almost
> certain that he will fix the alien ship and make a dramatic return.
During the hearing, why didn't any of the visitors from Earth mention
Young beating up Telford in the episode "Life"?
Tim Bruening
Gisele wrote:
> Gisele <ilov...@nospamlycos.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9CD88994540F9il...@94.75.244.46:
>
>> "George Avalos" <george...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:jICdnWj0AutmDIfW...@supernews.com:
>>
>>> "Justice"
>>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>>
>>> 5 stars (American)
>>>
>>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>>>
>>> -George
>>
>> dead planet.....great. Although I'll bet he gets that abandoned
>> spaceship working. Now that will be interesting if he gets back to
>> the Destiny and tells everyone what Young did....<g> At least,
>> *that* would be interesting and if it happens in the next episode
>> next year, then that might warrant a good score.
>>
>> Gisele
>
> Wanted to add that leaving the only scientist, that can help them get
> back to Earth or survive, on a dead planet seems like a very, very
> stupid move. Granted, Rush deserved some kind of punishment but
> banishment is way too harsh and foolhardy. I think Rush is right,
> Young does not know how to command.
>
During the investigation of the "Murder of Spencer", Young insists on
following procedure. Yet when Young learns that Rush framed him for the
death of Spencer, Young does not follow the proper procedure, which
would be to arrest Rush and throw him into the brig. Instead, Young
abandons Rush on a desert planet without dur process.
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>Tim Bruening wrote:
>> Gisele wrote:
>>> Gisele <ilov...@nospamlycos.com> wrote:
>>>> "George Avalos" <george...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Justice"
>>>>> 12-4-09 SGU
>>>>>
>>>>> 5 stars (American)
>>>>>
>>>>> 0-1 stars (honor killings)
>>>> 2.0 The only good character that has a personality gets left on a
>>>> dead planet.....great. Although I'll bet he gets that abandoned
>>>> spaceship working. Now that will be interesting if he gets back to
>>>> the Destiny and tells everyone what Young did....<g> At least,
>>>> *that* would be interesting and if it happens in the next episode
>>>> next year, then that might warrant a good score.
>>> Wanted to add that leaving the only scientist, that can help them get
>>> back to Earth or survive, on a dead planet seems like a very, very
>>> stupid move. Granted, Rush deserved some kind of punishment but
>>> banishment is way too harsh and foolhardy. I think Rush is right,
>>> Young does not know how to command.
>> During the investigation of the "Murder of Spencer", Young insists on
>> following procedure. Yet when Young learns that Rush framed him for the
>> death of Spencer, Young does not follow the proper procedure, which
>> would be to arrest Rush and throw him into the brig. Instead, Young
>> abandons Rush on a desert planet without dur process.
>
>He learned from the incident with the IOA team trying to use the gate to
>dial Earth that Rush can't be allowed to touch anything on the ship.
Young was also not in favor of that particular maneuver and learned from
Eli that the attempt would have failed = perhaps catastrophically as
Rush claimed.
Moreover, Rush had *help* setting that up.
>Rush is just too smart and is totally dedicated to going on with the
>mission instead of returning to Earth. He made what you might call a
>battlefield decision to take an extreme measure.
--
"Get next to a clue and hope the wind blows, dude."
- Fitzbo