Newsgroup Vampires
Jay Denebeim
I ran across this post in news.groups and it reminded me so much of
the situation here and the reasons we made .mod I just had to post
it.
See if this reminds anyone of anything:
In article <33933E...@ix.netcom.com>,
Arrow Blue <arro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I happened on this thread while browsing news.groups. It was
> interesting to see yet another newsgroup being pestered by this type
> of, oh for lack of a better term, attention-parasite. Your
> description could fit half a dozen, uh personalities that inhabit
> alt.sex.bondage on and off and sometimes permanently ensconce
> themselves. One has made alt.personals.bondage his personal fiefdom
> and posts huge self aggrandizing narratives everyday as well as
> arguing constantly with the regulars.
> I heard you mention some characteristics that I see in each of
> these newsgroup vampires:
> "at the beginning we all try to engage with him. "
> Each of these personalities are taken at face value when they first
> show up and usually to some extent by new posters when they run
> across him or her. They usually have some valid points and arguments
> mixed in with what ever crusade they are pushing.
> "What bothered me was his logic - which I found difficult to follow
> before I realized that it was absent "
> I've noticed that intelligent people tend to assume that a poster
> does make sense, whether or not the post is even readable. I guess
> its a case of trying to be polite, or perhaps they are reading in
> opinions that haven't really been expressed. After a while someone
> (as per Emperor's New Clothes) will point out that the vampire
> personality is using circular logic or making no sense. This
> happens over and over and many are lured into discussions over
> favorite subjects or obvious errors and then get disgusted and drop
> the argument. It's hard to resist wanting to be the one who finally
> manages to show the vampire 'the light' and help him or her to be a
> responsible member of the newsgroup family.
> "I find his presentation of himself boring, arrogant, pretentious,
> repetitive, hostile and occasionally abusive."
> Yep, yep and yep. All of these characteristics seem to hold for each
> of them.
> "there appears to be some morbid pleasure in being ignored, rejected
> and scorned..."
> 'If you don't agree totally with me, then you are a member of the
> cabal, the clique that is trying to silence all dissention.' says
> each vampire - a pretty impossible level of perfection to be
> attained by mere acquaintances, eh? Every challenge to his or her
> statements is viewed as a personal attack and a petty one at that.
> The first time I followed one of these guys, I suddenly thought to
> myself, 'Why he sounds like an abusive husband trying to work over
> an entire newsgroup of co-dependent wives.' It seemed crazy, but it
> did seem to be working that way. Every time a person would get
> tired of the impossible logic presented, there was always someone
> else to pick up the argument and continue the interaction.
> Attention was repeatedly deflected from the vampire by him making
> wild accusations and implying that the newsgroup was attacking him,
> thus enabling the vampire from having to shoulder responsibility for
> his own part in his own problems.
> And most of all, there was no way to escape the vampire - he was
> living in your newsgroup along with you. Ignoring him was like
> ignoring an elephant in your living room. There were always plenty
> of new people to stumble over him and repeat the mistakes everyone
> else had already made and was ready to scream over. The threads were
> huge and never-ending.
> So what do you do? Try to educate everyone to ignore him and hope
> that he will eventually get tired and go away? Write a FAQ that is
> posted every week on your 'problem child' to warn the newbies? Post
> his real name and address,email bomb him (or her), complain to his
> postmaster and try to scare him away? Pick up and move to a new
> newsgroup and not tell him the new name?
> These all have been tried with little success, except perhaps the
> last one (grin). I have no answers for you, except to say, your
> newsgroup is not alone - hey, maybe we should create a support group
> for afflicted newsgroups?
> I guess its a lot like a family with addict in its midst creating
> emergency after emergency and draining the family of its
> energy. Maybe gives you new insight to some of your patient's
> problems, eh? Unless you abandon the good parts of the family
> (newsgroup) you have to continue to deal with its problems and
> because of that in some ways, feed those same problems.
> Is he serving a purpose for you all? I guess, to some extent. He's a
> member of your family whether you like it or not, and you have to
> come to terms with that. He does stimulate discussion of your topic
> and help to define where you each draw your lines defining terms and
> ethics by espousing extreme views, but it is a pretty painful way to
> do it.
> Real life is so much easier, sometimes there are policemen who will
> come and remove the disruptive family members from the household and
> issue restraining orders against them. Here we have no such
> protections, ineffective as they sometimes are. But then again, I
> think we are still in the 'wild west' stage of development for
> newsgroups, kind of 'the man with the biggest gun' - (most time to
> post huge diatribes) gets the most attention from the rest of us. I
> see that we are closing off and civilizing(moderating) our
> communities (newsgroup). As usual, something is lost and something
> gained when this happens.
> Arrow
--
* Jay Denebeim, Moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: b5...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
* moderator contact address: b5mod-...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
jdn
Jay Denebeim wrote in article <5mvptd$p...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>...
:I ran across this post in news.groups and it reminded me so much of
:the situation here and the reasons we made .mod I just had to post
:it.
:
:See if this reminds anyone of anything:
:
<self-gratuitous, self-justifying whining snipped>
yep, reminds some of us of you, Jay.
David M. Sueme
On 2 Jun 1997 20:53:01 -0400, dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay
Denebeim) wrote:
>I ran across this post in news.groups and it reminded me so much of
>the situation here and the reasons we made .mod I just had to post
>it.
Oh come on. Anyone with any sense knows why .mod was created. By
announcing that he would answer "attn: JMS" posts, old Joe created a
situation where silence would be construed as admitting the truth of
an asserted proposition. Now consider the following "post", which I
submit is true to the spirit of much that was going on here two years
ago:
"Attn: JMS - Isn't it true that you fired [first station commander]
because he just wasn't exciting enough?"
Of course JMS can't say yes, to do so is to give a former employee a
terrible job referral and is libel. TO SAY NOTHING IS THE SAME, SEE
ABOVE. So as a practical matter, JMS is forced to create a fib. With
hundreds of IQ > 125 participants on the group to examine, criticise,
compare and so on, the fibs grew progressively more transparent.
Eventually JMS was forced to retreat behind a firewall, and thus
.softball, er, .mod was created.
The interesting thing here is what this experience means for the next
producer who wants to interact with fans in a relatively unrestricted
internet forum. I submit that the implied promise to respond was the
fatal error. If JMS had merely responded when he found something
interesting, then no response could not so readily be construed as an
admission. If the next JMS takes that approach then he will be able
to ignore unreasonable accusatory posts without fear of being sued.
Dave
Captain Infinity
In article <5mvptd$p...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim) wrote :
>I ran across this post in news.groups and it reminded me so much of
>the situation here and the reasons we made .mod I just had to post
>it.
>
>See if this reminds anyone of anything:
>
<snip>
Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
--
Captain Infinity
mumble mumble take my bat and ball and go home grumble mumble...
Robert Holland
Jay Denebeim wrote:
>
> I ran across this post in news.groups and it reminded me so much of
> the situation here and the reasons we made .mod I just had to post
> it.
>
> See if this reminds anyone of anything:
>
> In article <33933E...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Arrow Blue <arro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
Funny how you can post to a newsgroup that interests you and
after a while believe that group belongs to you. At that point
it becomes your sworn duty to protect consensus opinion at
any cost, invoking flame, intimidation, witch hunt, and finally,
seeing that you can't force anyone out, you set up a moderated
ng where you can truly own the turf.
Enjoy footing the bill, Jay. You have learned the true cost
of newsgroup ownership.
--RH (Say, you haven't tired of moderating, have you?)
Jay Denebeim
In article <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>,
Captain Infinity <Innf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
Well, like I said, it reminded me of the situation here. It seems
like just about every newsgroup has a kook. One of the psychology
groups has one that looks like it's driving them to moderate. He
showed up in news.groups to argue against moderation. Quite
entertaining, just like old times here.
Jay
c...@sim.zipcon.net
Jay Denebeim (dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us) wrote:
: In article <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>,
: Captain Infinity <Innf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
:
: >Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
:
: Well, like I said, it reminded me of the situation here. It seems
: like just about every newsgroup has a kook. One of the psychology
: showed up in news.groups to argue against moderation. Quite
: entertaining, just like old times here.
It's still trolling. You know there are people here with strong opinions
or reactions to the reasons for the .mod group being created, and you
posted about it deliberately as a derogatory comment on the state of this
group and why the .mod group got formed. It's trolling, and it's
hypocritical of you.
Knock it off, please.
--
Chris Keroack <*> The only joy in the world is to begin.
c...@zipcon.net <*> - Cesare Pavese
Rick Sharer
> [Image]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Post News][Post Binary][X Post News][X Post Binary][Display Header]
> [Prev][Next][Help][Frame]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vampires
> Date: 4 Jun 1997 17:55:05 GMT
> From: c...@sim.zipcon.net ( )
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5
> References: <dvdwant.9...@libarts.up.ac.za>
> <33933E...@ix.netcom.com> <5mvptd$p...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
> <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>
> <5n47qv$p...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jay Denebeim (dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us) wrote:
> : In article <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>,
> : Captain Infinity <Innf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> :
> : >Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
> :
> : Well, like I said, it reminded me of the situation here. It seems
> : like just about every newsgroup has a kook. One of the psychology
> : groups has one that looks like it's driving them to moderate. He
> : showed up in news.groups to argue against moderation. Quite
> : entertaining, just like old times here.
>
> It's still trolling. You know there are people here with strong opinions
> or reactions to the reasons for the .mod group being created, and you
> posted about it deliberately as a derogatory comment on the state of this
> group and why the .mod group got formed. It's trolling, and it's
> hypocritical of you.
>
> Knock it off, please.
No...you see, even Jay doesn't have to knock it off *here*.
Unless you're the new moderator of unmoderated. ;)
V
Beware the Newsgroup Vampires
They are One...with Different Names ;)
jdn
The effort is appreciated, but I wouldn't count on much coming from this.
Jay has shown consistently that he's a pussy, making threats, goading
individuals, sending trolls and flames, etc. all the various things he so
'devotedly' protects the mod group from, all the while refraining from
answering to legitimate complaints, as well as refraining from answering to
counter-trolls, flames, etc. Face it, he's a wimp.
wrote in article <86544698...@ran.zipcon.net>...
:Jay Denebeim (dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us) wrote:
:: In article <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>,
:: Captain Infinity <Innf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
::
:: >Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
::
:: Well, like I said, it reminded me of the situation here. It seems
:: like just about every newsgroup has a kook. One of the psychology
:: groups has one that looks like it's driving them to moderate. He
:: showed up in news.groups to argue against moderation. Quite
:: entertaining, just like old times here.
:
:
:It's still trolling. You know there are people here with strong opinions
:or reactions to the reasons for the .mod group being created, and you
:posted about it deliberately as a derogatory comment on the state of this
:group and why the .mod group got formed. It's trolling, and it's
:hypocritical of you.
:
:Knock it off, please.
:
:
:--
:
Robert Holland
Jay Denebeim wrote:
>
> In article <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>,
> Captain Infinity <Innf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
>
> Well, like I said, it reminded me of the situation here. It seems
> like just about every newsgroup has a kook. One of the psychology
> showed up in news.groups to argue against moderation. Quite
> entertaining, just like old times here.
>
I think you realize half a post's meaning depends on the
interpretation of the reader. For instance, I read your
first post and thought it described Gherkin to a tee,
especially his actions in the seaquest ng.
Glad you have a place to vent!
--RH
Robert Holland
Rick Sharer wrote:
>
> > [Image]
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > [Post News][Post Binary][X Post News][X Post Binary][Display Header]
> > [Prev][Next][Help][Frame]
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vampires
> > Date: 4 Jun 1997 17:55:05 GMT
> > From: c...@sim.zipcon.net ( )
> > Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5
> > References: <dvdwant.9...@libarts.up.ac.za>
> > <33933E...@ix.netcom.com> <5mvptd$p...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
> > <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>
> > <5n47qv$p...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > : In article <3394a2da...@nntp.netcruiser>,
> > : Captain Infinity <Innf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > :
> > : >Hey! No fair trolling in this group if I can't troll in yours!
> > :
> > : Well, like I said, it reminded me of the situation here. It seems
> > : like just about every newsgroup has a kook. One of the psychology
> > : groups has one that looks like it's driving them to moderate. He
> > : showed up in news.groups to argue against moderation. Quite
> > : entertaining, just like old times here.
> >
> > or reactions to the reasons for the .mod group being created, and you
> > posted about it deliberately as a derogatory comment on the state of this
> > group and why the .mod group got formed. It's trolling, and it's
> > hypocritical of you.
> >
> > Knock it off, please.
>
>
> Unless you're the new moderator of unmoderated. ;)
>
> V
> Beware the Newsgroup Vampires
> They are One...with Different Names ;)
Damn straight, Rick! We fought the good fight long and hard
to preserve Jay's right to post whatever he likes in this ng.
It's good to see him exercise that right occasionally.
--RH
kivasmama
jdn penned...
> The effort is appreciated, but I wouldn't count on much coming from this.
> Jay has shown consistently that he's a pussy, making threats, goading
> individuals, sending trolls and flames, etc. all the various things he so
> 'devotedly' protects the mod group from, all the while refraining from
> answering to legitimate complaints, as well as refraining from answering to
> counter-trolls, flames, etc. Face it, he's a wimp.
>
>
Gee, just as this was getting interesting it deteriorates into
mindless sweeping generalizations, flames and trolls...
Let me get this straight: just from reading *your* statement, this
person is a pussy for... behaving just like you? Oh wait, except when
he chooses to champion an NG set up to avoid such silly behavior, then
he's a whimp. So if one does what one complains about, one is a
pussy... you don't by any chance have 9 lives do you?
And so what if it *is* a troll? That's perfectly acceptable here,
isn't it? I mean, after all, the very post to which I am responding
is, in fact, a troll.
What's your point, sweetheart? Did the big boys hurt you? Come here,
little one and let a *real* pussy show you who's a whimp <g>.
--
Dianne <*>
who thinks that if you can't play with the big dogs, you should stay
on the porch (the mod group, I think you'd call it?)
Ben Matterson
kivasmama wrote:
>
>
> What's your point, sweetheart? Did the big boys hurt you? Come here,
> little one and let a *real* pussy show you who's a whimp <g>.
>
Oh, me too, please. I think I like you. I sure like your style.
--
Ben
Art imitates life. TV imitates art.
thew...@cybernothing.org
kivasmama (dhe...@polaris.attmail.com) wrote:
: jdn penned...
: > The effort is appreciated, but I wouldn't count on much coming from this.
: > Jay has shown consistently that he's a pussy, making threats, goading
: > individuals, sending trolls and flames, etc. all the various things he so
: > 'devotedly' protects the mod group from, all the while refraining from
: > answering to legitimate complaints, as well as refraining from answering to
: > counter-trolls, flames, etc. Face it, he's a wimp.
<snip>
:
: What's your point, sweetheart? Did the big boys hurt you? Come here,
YM "who's whipped" ;)
--
TheWitch
"You run the grave risk of being turned
into a piece of bread and toasted"
--T. H. White
"The Once and Future King"
jdn
wow, i'd almost forgotten that one. Your news server must have one hell of
a lot more disk space than netcom's. Anyhoo, if I can remember the point
of my diatribe (if there was one)...
kivasmama wrote in article ...
:jdn penned...
:> The effort is appreciated, but I wouldn't count on much coming from
this.
:> Jay has shown consistently that he's a pussy, making threats, goading
:> individuals, sending trolls and flames, etc. all the various things he
so
:> 'devotedly' protects the mod group from, all the while refraining from
:> answering to legitimate complaints, as well as refraining from answering
to
:> counter-trolls, flames, etc. Face it, he's a wimp.
:>
:
:Gee, just as this was getting interesting it deteriorates into
:mindless sweeping generalizations, flames and trolls...
Not a mindless generalization if it is true, and it is. Read the vast
majority of Jay's past posts (and it looks like you have access to them
<grin>).
:
:Let me get this straight: just from reading *your* statement, this
:person is a pussy for... behaving just like you? Oh wait, except when
:he chooses to champion an NG set up to avoid such silly behavior, then
:he's a whimp. So if one does what one complains about, one is a
:pussy... you don't by any chance have 9 lives do you?
Cute. No, he's a pussy (and a wimp) because he's made direct 'threats' to
me, mainly, to post to this newsgroup the various posts and e-mails we had
between us over some argument about censorship on the moderated group,
which he was refraining from doing because he didn't want to 'embarrass'
me. Now, given the fact that I am fully aware of my own capacity to
embarrass myself without outside help, that didn't phase me, so I
challenged him repeatedly to do so, in large part because I believed those
messages would reveal how much of a two-faced hypocrite he is. He
declined. That makes him a wimp.
Plus, there was the charge he made in a single post about me being (if I
remember the wording correctly) a "pseudo-Christian homophobe" (the wording
always struck me as strange; I have an irrational fear of gay pseudo
Christians?). This came from nowhere since I have never at any point in my
life written anything on homosexuality, plus I live and have gotten along
just fine with any number of people who are into that sort of thing (here
on South Beach, Florida, gays actually prefer to call themselves "flaming
queers' at times, but then again South Beach has always been a different
sort of place), and most importantly, since when it comes to sexual
preference I really don't care.
But that's sort of the point, where an individual just levels a charge
totally unsubstantiated, in large part I think because he didn't have an
argumentative leg to stand on concerning our disagreement.
:
:And so what if it *is* a troll? That's perfectly acceptable here,
:isn't it? I mean, after all, the very post to which I am responding
:is, in fact, a troll.
Of course, it is perfectly acceptable. I have no problem with trolls
really, since they are often very entertaining. Thus, in response to a
troll, I trolled.
:
:What's your point, sweetheart? Did the big boys hurt you? Come here,
:little one and let a *real* pussy show you who's a whimp <g>.
nah, didn't hurt. Besides which, thanks for the offer, but that job's
taken<big grin, since she's asleep right now (but will laugh when she sees
this)>.
nice talking to you,
jdn
king...@ix.netcom.com
:
:--
:
Theron Fuller
jdn wrote:
(Stuff Deleted)
> :Let me get this straight: just from reading *your* statement, this
> :person is a pussy for... behaving just like you? Oh wait, except when
> :he chooses to champion an NG set up to avoid such silly behavior, then
> :he's a whimp. So if one does what one complains about, one is a
> :pussy... you don't by any chance have 9 lives do you?
>
> Cute. No, he's a pussy (and a wimp) because he's made direct 'threats' to
> me, mainly, to post to this newsgroup the various posts and e-mails we had
> between us over some argument about censorship on the moderated group,
> which he was refraining from doing because he didn't want to 'embarrass'
> me. Now, given the fact that I am fully aware of my own capacity to
> embarrass myself without outside help, that didn't phase me, so I
> challenged him repeatedly to do so, in large part because I believed those
> messages would reveal how much of a two-faced hypocrite he is. He
> declined. That makes him a wimp.
>
> Plus, there was the charge he made in a single post about me being (if I
> remember the wording correctly) a "pseudo-Christian homophobe" (the wording
> always struck me as strange; I have an irrational fear of gay pseudo
> Christians?). This came from nowhere since I have never at any point in my
> life written anything on homosexuality, plus I live and have gotten along
> just fine with any number of people who are into that sort of thing (here
> on South Beach, Florida, gays actually prefer to call themselves "flaming
> queers' at times, but then again South Beach has always been a different
> sort of place), and most importantly, since when it comes to sexual
> preference I really don't care.
>
We have something in common. I made a post where I observed that
rastb5.RomperRoom didn't maintain any message logs that would let the
rest of the moderators know whether of not Jay Denebeim was
systematically deleting posts from certing individuals. Jay Denebeim
threatend a denial-of-service attack on me by saying he would send me
the whole 1 gigabyte rastb5.RomperRoom backup file to me as an e-mail
attachment.
> But that's sort of the point, where an individual just levels a charge
> totally unsubstantiated, in large part I think because he didn't have an
> argumentative leg to stand on concerning our disagreement.
>
> :
> :And so what if it *is* a troll? That's perfectly acceptable here,
> :isn't it? I mean, after all, the very post to which I am responding
> :is, in fact, a troll.
>
> Of course, it is perfectly acceptable. I have no problem with trolls
> really, since they are often very entertaining. Thus, in response to a
> troll, I trolled.
Jay's fallen on newsgroup hard times lately. Since the "Shadow-War-end"
episode, even the True Believers aren't all that anzious to hear what
Joe Straczynski has to say about the show on rastb5.RomperRoom. And
even some of the truest of the True Believers have been trying to post
the type of pointed questions Joe Straczynski definitely doesn't want to
see on his newsgroup. And Joe Straczynski doesn't seem all that eager
to discuss Babylon 5 these days, anyhow.
So, Jay's invested all that money in equipment to run rastb5.RomperRoom
and the handwriting is on the wall for the slow decline of the
newsgroup. Participation there is slowly dropping back towards that on
rastb5. Being Big Cheese moderator for rastb5.RomperRoom just ain't
what it used to be.
(Stuff Deleted)
Regards,
Theron Fuller
thew...@cybernothing.org
Wherein Theron Fuller gives us his "take" on DoS.
Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
:
: We have something in common. I made a post where I observed that
: rastb5.RomperRoom didn't maintain any message logs that would let the
: rest of the moderators know whether of not Jay Denebeim was
: systematically deleting posts from certing individuals. Jay Denebeim
: threatend a denial-of-service attack on me by saying he would send me
: the whole 1 gigabyte rastb5.RomperRoom backup file to me as an e-mail
: attachment.
TRANSLATION:
1. Theron makes an accusation
2. Jay offers to send him the evidence that his accusation is unfounded
3. This somehow becomes a Denial of Service attack.
<snip more unsubstantiated bullshit>
It really eats at you that rastb5.mod not only got created, but hasn't
fallen into the pits as you predicted during the RFD, doesn't it?
Hugs & kisses,
thew...@cybernothing.org
jdn (king...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: wow, i'd almost forgotten that one. Your news server must have one hell of
: a lot more disk space than netcom's. Anyhoo, if I can remember the point
: of my diatribe (if there was one)...
: kivasmama wrote in article ...
: :jdn penned...
: :> The effort is appreciated, but I wouldn't count on much coming from
: this.
: :> Jay has shown consistently that he's a pussy, making threats, goading
: :> individuals, sending trolls and flames, etc. all the various things he
: so
: :> 'devotedly' protects the mod group from, all the while refraining from
: :> answering to legitimate complaints, as well as refraining from answering
: to
: :> counter-trolls, flames, etc. Face it, he's a wimp.
If you have a legitimate complaint, then take it to the satai list. At
this point all we have is your word that Jay has done something not in
keeping with being a moderator. If you really think that Jay's done
something over the top and you have proof of this, then the satai list is
the place to deal with the complaint.
If you're merely venting, go for it.
: :
: :Gee, just as this was getting interesting it deteriorates into
: :mindless sweeping generalizations, flames and trolls...
:
: Not a mindless generalization if it is true, and it is. Read the vast
: majority of Jay's past posts (and it looks like you have access to them
: <grin>).
What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to post as
others do over on rastb5?
: :Let me get this straight: just from reading *your* statement, this
: :person is a pussy for... behaving just like you? Oh wait, except when
: :he chooses to champion an NG set up to avoid such silly behavior, then
: :he's a whimp. So if one does what one complains about, one is a
: :pussy... you don't by any chance have 9 lives do you?
:
: Cute. No, he's a pussy (and a wimp) because he's made direct 'threats' to
: me, mainly, to post to this newsgroup the various posts and e-mails we had
: between us over some argument about censorship on the moderated group,
: which he was refraining from doing because he didn't want to 'embarrass'
: me. Now, given the fact that I am fully aware of my own capacity to
: embarrass myself without outside help, that didn't phase me, so I
: challenged him repeatedly to do so, in large part because I believed those
: messages would reveal how much of a two-faced hypocrite he is. He
: declined. That makes him a wimp.
So why don't *you* post them? Or better yet, why don't you appeal to the
satai list?
<snip deconstruction of pseudo-christian homophobe>
: But that's sort of the point, where an individual just levels a charge
: totally unsubstantiated, in large part I think because he didn't have an
: argumentative leg to stand on concerning our disagreement.
Gee, kinda like you've just done, yes?
<snip>
Theron Fuller
TheW...@Endor.com wrote:
>
> Wherein Theron Fuller gives us his "take" on DoS.
>
> Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
> :
> : We have something in common. I made a post where I observed that
> : rastb5.RomperRoom didn't maintain any message logs that would let the
> : rest of the moderators know whether of not Jay Denebeim was
> : systematically deleting posts from certing individuals. Jay Denebeim
> : threatend a denial-of-service attack on me by saying he would send me
> : the whole 1 gigabyte rastb5.RomperRoom backup file to me as an e-mail
> : attachment.
>
> TRANSLATION:
>
> 1. Theron makes an accusation
> 2. Jay offers to send him the evidence that his accusation is unfounded
> 3. This somehow becomes a Denial of Service attack.
1. Theron systematically documents that posts he has sent to
rastb5.RomperRoom are not disappearing due to either newsreader problems
or ISP problems on my end, which verifies the experience of problems
other would-be posters had reported. Concludes that there is either a
problem with the moderation software, or that Day Denebeim is deleting
posts form the moderation queue. Observes that rastb5.RomperRoom has no
logs that can be used to objectively determine who is doing what to
messages on rastb5.Romper.
2. Jay Denebeim posts that he indeed has logs in the form of backup
file of more than a gigabyte, and since I have requested proof, he will
send me the file as an e-mail attachment. He observes that, of course,
this is likely to crash my ISP's system, but since I have requested the
file, he will send it. He CCs my ISP's system administrator and notes
that I have requested a very large e-mail attachment that will overload
the e-mail system and very likely crash the whole e-mail system.
3. Jay Denebeim threatened a deliberate action which he knows will
overload my ISP's e-mail system, and cause either a major slowdown or a
systems crash. This is a threat to launch a denial-of-service attack.
Jay Denebeim engaged in a threat of net terrorism.
> <snip more unsubstantiated bullshit>
>
> It really eats at you that rastb5.mod not only got created, but hasn't
> fallen into the pits as you predicted during the RFD, doesn't it?
Dont bother me a bit. This isn't a "sour grapes" observation. Even
Stevie Wonder can see that things have changed drastically on
rastb5.RomperRoom since the Shadow War ended. Joe Straczynski's posts
have dropped off dramatically. And the volume of posts to the newsgroup
is way down over where it was a year ago. After this next new episode
airs in the U.S., and if Warner Bros. makes its "official announcement"
about Babylon 5's renewal, watch the volume of posts drop off even more.
Regards,
Theron Fuller
TMB
TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> replied to:
> : Not a mindless generalization if it is true, and it is. Read the vast
> : majority of Jay's past posts (and it looks like you have access to them
> : <grin>).
with
> What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to post as
> others do over on rastb5?
(Major swing in subject here, not sure how that conclusion was drawn from
the paragraph it was replying to, but didn't want to appear to be snipping
to change context)
I haven't seen anything in this thread about any of the moderators not
being allowed (or should not be allowed) to post in this group. It's the
behavior of a few that get commented on.
A moderator (any moderator anywhere) that goes into a non-moderated group
to flame or post trolls is behavior that can be likened to a minister
preaching on Sunday morning about the weakness of the flesh and
overindulgence after tying one on the night before with a prostitute in a
motel room.
Hypocrisy.
I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame people
and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what you
preach.
In an effort to move this along a bit faster, the normal responses will be
dealt with here:
1. Where's your proof?
You can search Dejanews just as well as I can. It's all still there,
everything from JMS citing health reason while he flames four people on his
way out the door of this group to this post you're reading now.
2. If you don't like it, complain to Satai.
Complain to the accused. Right
3. Form my own newsgroup.
Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow this
behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
4. Go somewhere else.
It's an open forum, freedom of speech, etc.
5. You're going into my killfile.
Thank you. The ultimate in problem solving.
6. For the obscenities, vulgarities, insults, etc...
Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
Theron Fuller
thew...@cybernothing.org
Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
<snip>
: 2. Jay Denebeim posts that he indeed has logs in the form of backup
: file of more than a gigabyte, and since I have requested proof, he will
: send me the file as an e-mail attachment. He observes that, of course,
: this is likely to crash my ISP's system, but since I have requested the
: file, he will send it. He CCs my ISP's system administrator and notes
: that I have requested a very large e-mail attachment that will overload
: the e-mail system and very likely crash the whole e-mail system.
:
: 3. Jay Denebeim threatened a deliberate action which he knows will
: overload my ISP's e-mail system, and cause either a major slowdown or a
: systems crash. This is a threat to launch a denial-of-service attack.
: Jay Denebeim engaged in a threat of net terrorism.
:
Uhm. If it *was* a DoS, why didn't your ISP go ahead and bring charges
Theron? Were they feeling particularly magnanimous that day? <chuckle>
Most people threatening DoS usually don't cc the sysadmin. But nice
attempt at spin-doctoring.
: > <snip more unsubstantiated bullshit>
: >
: > It really eats at you that rastb5.mod not only got created, but hasn't
: > fallen into the pits as you predicted during the RFD, doesn't it?
:
: Dont bother me a bit. This isn't a "sour grapes" observation.
Sure it is, hon. :)
: Even
: Stevie Wonder can see that things have changed drastically on
: rastb5.RomperRoom since the Shadow War ended. Joe Straczynski's posts
: have dropped off dramatically. And the volume of posts to the newsgroup
: is way down over where it was a year ago. After this next new episode
: airs in the U.S., and if Warner Bros. makes its "official announcement"
: about Babylon 5's renewal, watch the volume of posts drop off even more.
Want to give your evidence of this? Or should be just assume that you're
again posting your version of "how things should be". :)
Hugs & kisses,
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) proven liar and Master of the Sour Grape wrote:
:
: > What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to post as
: > others do over on rastb5?
:
: (Major swing in subject here, not sure how that conclusion was drawn from
: the paragraph it was replying to, but didn't want to appear to be snipping
: to change context)
Be my guest, hon. Care to discuss the lack of negative criticism over in
rastb5.mod?
:
: I haven't seen anything in this thread about any of the moderators not
: being allowed (or should not be allowed) to post in this group. It's the
: behavior of a few that get commented on.
And the fact that *Jay* is a moderator on rastb5.mod, and because of his
posts, he's a number of so far, unprovable epithets.
: A moderator (any moderator anywhere) that goes into a non-moderated group
: to flame or post trolls is behavior that can be likened to a minister
: preaching on Sunday morning about the weakness of the flesh and
: overindulgence after tying one on the night before with a prostitute in a
: motel room.
: Hypocrisy.
<LOL> A group of people got tired of the flames, baiting, and spoilers.
For the record, the flames got boring, but having a spoiler-free place was
my main reason advocating the formation, and for my yes-vote.
But back to the point. There were and continue to be people who feel the
need to take the formation of rastb5.mod as a personal slap in the face.
And well they should. :) They continue to post articles *calculated* to
bring Jay over here. Jay does so, and responds in kind. Suddenly he's a
hypocrite.
There's a severe flaw in your logic. But that, like honesty has never
stopped you or certain others from posting the crap anyway. :)
: I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame people
: and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what you
: preach.
<smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
: In an effort to move this along a bit faster, the normal responses will be
: dealt with here:
: 1. Where's your proof?
: You can search Dejanews just as well as I can.
You and a few others are the ones who've made the allegation. Debate 101
starts out by stating that the burden of proof is on the accuser. Of
course, if you're a proven liar, this becomes even more imperative, should
you actually wish to be taken seriously. :)
It's all still there,
: everything from JMS citing health reason while he flames four people on his
: way out the door of this group to this post you're reading now.
: 2. If you don't like it, complain to Satai.
: Complain to the accused. Right
There are 9 moderators (iirc) there is also an impartial overseer to whom
appeals may be made if you feel any or all the moderators are acting
unfairly. Perhaps you would do well to read . . .oops. Are you lying
*again*, sport?
<snip pissing and moaning, but no real content>
: 6. For the obscenities, vulgarities, insults, etc...
: Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
: opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
<grin> You, sir, are amazingly full of shit. But then you knew that,
yes?
Theron Fuller
TheW...@Endor.com wrote:
>
> Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> : 2. Jay Denebeim posts that he indeed has logs in the form of backup
> : file of more than a gigabyte, and since I have requested proof, he will
> : send me the file as an e-mail attachment. He observes that, of course,
> : this is likely to crash my ISP's system, but since I have requested the
> : file, he will send it. He CCs my ISP's system administrator and notes
> : that I have requested a very large e-mail attachment that will overload
> : the e-mail system and very likely crash the whole e-mail system.
> :
> : 3. Jay Denebeim threatened a deliberate action which he knows will
> : overload my ISP's e-mail system, and cause either a major slowdown or a
> : systems crash. This is a threat to launch a denial-of-service attack.
> : Jay Denebeim engaged in a threat of net terrorism.
> :
>
> Uhm. If it *was* a DoS, why didn't your ISP go ahead and bring charges
> Theron? Were they feeling particularly magnanimous that day? <chuckle>
> Most people threatening DoS usually don't cc the sysadmin. But nice
> attempt at spin-doctoring.
I don't define threats at Internet terrorism by what response my ISP
makes to that threat. Denebeim knew it was a denieal-of-servide
threat. I know it was a denial-of-service threat. Anyone else can
define the situation as Jay Denebeim trying to be helpful, even though
he knew his action would harm my ISP's mail service, or they can define
it as Fuller trying to put spin control on a situation he caused and
where Jay Denebeim really stuck it to "the mind fucker." Or they can
define the situation as a crude denial-of-service threat by Denebeim.
Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
and a net terrorist for this particular action.
>
> : > <snip more unsubstantiated bullshit>
> : >
> : > It really eats at you that rastb5.mod not only got created, but hasn't
> : > fallen into the pits as you predicted during the RFD, doesn't it?
> :
> : Dont bother me a bit. This isn't a "sour grapes" observation.
>
> Sure it is, hon. :)
I ain't your "hon." Rastb5.RomperRoom and I co-exist quite well on the
Internet. I don't recall predicting that rastb5.RomperRoom will "fall
into a pit." However, I will defer to any post I may have made at the
time. I do recall predicting that Jay Denebeim would act more as a
censor than as a moderator, and that he would not observe his own
charter. I was bang on in that prediction. Just call me "Nostradamas."
>
> : Even
> : Stevie Wonder can see that things have changed drastically on
> : rastb5.RomperRoom since the Shadow War ended. Joe Straczynski's posts
> : have dropped off dramatically. And the volume of posts to the newsgroup
> : is way down over where it was a year ago. After this next new episode
> : airs in the U.S., and if Warner Bros. makes its "official announcement"
> : about Babylon 5's renewal, watch the volume of posts drop off even more.
>
> Want to give your evidence of this? Or should be just assume that you're
> again posting your version of "how things should be". :)
No, I'm giving my version of how I interpret the changes I've observed
on rastb5.RomperRoom and the changes I've observed on rastb5. And I'm
giving my personal prediction of how I thinks things are going to
continue to change.
This is one area where each individual can observe for themselves, come
to their own conclusions, and put any interpretation on those
conclusions they wish. If you don't think things on rastb5.RomperRoom
have changed drastically, then I won't argue the point.
> Hugs & kisses,
Coff, Coff, patooie! Anybody got any gum? (Apologies to Jim Carey. :-)
)
Theron Fuller
David Stinson
In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
"TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
:TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> replied to:
:> : Not a mindless generalization if it is true, and it is. Read the vast
:> : majority of Jay's past posts (and it looks like you have access to them
:> : <grin>).
:
:with
:> What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to post as
:> others do over on rastb5?
:
:(Major swing in subject here, not sure how that conclusion was drawn from
:the paragraph it was replying to, but didn't want to appear to be snipping
:to change context)
:I haven't seen anything in this thread about any of the moderators not
:being allowed (or should not be allowed) to post in this group. It's the
:behavior of a few that get commented on.
:to flame or post trolls is behavior that can be likened to a minister
:preaching on Sunday morning about the weakness of the flesh and
:overindulgence after tying one on the night before with a prostitute in a
:motel room.
So he should just let you post your insults instead, and never say a word
here...
:Hypocrisy.
Yes, you have exhinbited it on many occasions. Including several recent ones.
:I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame people
:and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what you
:preach.
Well ,as Robert Holland says, you don't have to watch what you say here. Seems
to me that several here, who are not moderators, are overly fond of absuing
that priviledge.
:In an effort to move this along a bit faster, the normal responses will be
:dealt with here:
:1. Where's your proof?
:You can search Dejanews just as well as I can. It's all still there,
:everything from JMS citing health reason while he flames four people on his
:way out the door of this group to this post you're reading now.
Nice rewrite of the actual events - try a goodbye letter explaining why he
shouldn't have to be a shooting gallery for a group of people who seemed to
enjoy the concept of hounding him simply because of who he was.
And you notably disregard the CONSTANT flaming of those four persons (at least
three of them) during the period just previous. One would be well advised to
check the archives of this newsgroup for the time period from September to
November of 1995 for the FULL CONTEXT of that situation.
:2. If you don't like it, complain to Satai.
:Complain to the accused. Right
Satai is NOT the moderators. They are regulars there but Satai consists of
around twenty to twenty five different people of which only nine were
moderators.
:3. Form my own newsgroup.
:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow this
:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to pass in
the first place.
:4. Go somewhere else.
:It's an open forum, freedom of speech, etc.
Freedom of speech has a concommitant responsibility to not abuse that freedom.
It would be nice of people to remember that.
:5. You're going into my killfile.
:Thank you. The ultimate in problem solving.
Hey, a killfile blocks ONE person form seeing those posts, by their own
choice. You seem to believe a person has no right to make that choice for
themselves???
:6. For the obscenities, vulgarities, insults, etc...
:Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
:opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
:
Right back at ya...
--
David A. Stinson Web Page: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html
E-Mail: dsti...@ix.netcomz.com da...@procomz.com dast...@aolz.com
* NO ELECTRONS WERE HARMED DURING PRODUCTION OF THIS MESSAGE *
REMOVE Z FROM ADDRESS IN POST TO EMAIL.
Theron Fuller
(Stuff Deleted)
> : I don't define threats at Internet terrorism by what response my ISP
> : makes to that threat.
>
> Well I'm not surprised, Theron. You pretty much *do* make up your own
> definitions as the mood strikes you. You know, like why O'Hare left the
> show, and a number of others.
Well yeah. That's why I'm posting this on rastb5. If I wanted to let
Jay Denebeim make up my definitions for me as the mood strikes him, I
would post to rsstb5.RomperRoom.
I encourage everyone to "make up their own definitons." Who makes up
your "definitions" for you? I define threatening to send me an e-mail
message with a gigabyte attachment when he know such an action may crash
my ISP's mail service as a "threatening a denial-of-service attack." I
define anyone who threatens me with a denial-of-service attact as "an
Internet terrorist." These are my own personal definitions, nothing
more and nothing less.
Also, I was specifically discussing Jay Denebeim's actions on the
Internet, not why Michael O'Hare left the Babylon 5 series. That's
another thread.
>
(Stuff Deleted)
> Given your rather weak history in terms of accuracy, I'll opt for Jay
> trying to be helpful. :)
Well, you're posting on rastb5, you opt and post any way you choose. :-)
>
> : Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
> : and a net terrorist for this particular action.
>
> WAINS? You've never liked Jay, and you've always tried to put the
> nastiest spin on just about anything that Jay has said or done. Perhaps
> you're right and it was a DoS. I'm not going to buy it simply because
> you've cried "wolf" once too often.
You pays your money and you takes your choice. I gave you my opinion
for free, and it's worth every penny you paid for it. And in this
instance, I tried to give the situation the nastiest spin I could convey
in an newsgroup post. I have absolutely no use for anybody who
threatens to crash Internet Services.
>
(Stuff Deleted)
> : I do recall predicting that Jay Denebeim would act more as a
> : censor than as a moderator, and that he would not observe his own
> : charter. I was bang on in that prediction.
>
> And your evidence for this is. . .?
I ain't gonna play "prove it" games with you. Those who have been
reading or participating on rastb5.RomperRoom for any length of time can
form their own opinions of the degree of truth in my observation. If you
want to "prove" my opinion wrong, have at it. Again, this is rastb5 and
there are no restrictions on your doing so.
>
> : Just call me "Nostradamas."
>
> Nah, I'll just stick to calling you "hon". It so clearly rattles you,
> that it's too fun to drop, and you sure as shit haven't earned the
> position of "seer".
If you think I'm rattled by you calling me "hon," then by all means take
every opportunity you can to call me that in posts. Seems like calling
myself "Nostradamas" clearly rattles you. You can call me "Mind
Fucker." I've sure as shit earned that position. From The Great Man
Himself.
>
(Stuff Deleted)
> : > Want to give your evidence of this? Or should be just assume that you're
> : > again posting your version of "how things should be". :)
Gosh, I don't know how many times I have to try to explain my posts.
I'm posting my version of "how things should be." Anyone who cares to
can make their own conclusions of what has happened recently on the
rastb5 and rastb5.RomperRoom news groups, and why things have or haven't
changed. Same with my observations of what's going to happen in the
future. Make your own observations and either agree with me or rub my
nose into it if my predicions are wrong.
> :
> : No, I'm giving my version of how I interpret the changes I've observed
> : on rastb5.RomperRoom and the changes I've observed on rastb5.
>
> Ah, so it *is* your version of "how things should be". :) Thanks for
> clearing that up, hon.
At last, the light dawns. Now can we stop all this "and your evidence
is..." crap?
>
> : And I'm
> : giving my personal prediction of how I thinks things are going to
> : continue to change.
>
> And no doubt it will come back to haunt you in the ensuing years. :)
Well, won't be the first time. And probably not the last. So, when
>you< state observations, conclusions and opinions here and on other newsgroups, just whose observations, conclusions, and opinions are they?
>
> : This is one area where each individual can observe for themselves, come
> : to their own conclusions, and put any interpretation on those
> : conclusions they wish. If you don't think things on rastb5.RomperRoom
> : have changed drastically, then I won't argue the point.
>
> That's good, 'cause you'd be wrong, hon.
Is that your "own personal opinion?" And your evidence is...?
>
> :
> : > Hugs & kisses,
> :
> : Coff, Coff, patooie! Anybody got any gum? (Apologies to Jim Carey. :-)
>
> More like apologies to rastb5.mod and JMS are in order. Somehow I think
> Mr. Carey would find you just as slimy and underhanded as jms, and a
> number of other USENET notables do.
Well, I'm a very gracious person with a certain amount of class and
style. I'll fall all over myself apologizing to Joe Straczynski
immediately after he posts his apology to me. However, I owe
rastb5.RomperRoom no apology for anything.
>
> Hugs & kisses,
Coff, Coff, patooie! Damn, there never is any gum around when you really
need it.
Theron Fuller
Deb Fuller
David Stinson wrote:
> Nice rewrite of the actual events - try a goodbye letter explaining why he
> shouldn't have to be a shooting gallery for a group of people who seemed to
> enjoy the concept of hounding him simply because of who he was.
Hey Dave, what drugs are you smoking and why aren't you sharing? As a
member of said "shooting gallery", I had not posted anything in many
months when JMS made his melodramatic good-bye.
>
> And you notably disregard the CONSTANT flaming of those four persons (at least
> three of them) during the period just previous. One would be well advised to
> check the archives of this newsgroup for the time period from September to
> November of 1995 for the FULL CONTEXT of that situation.
Ooh, go a bit futher back and see the headache that JMS caused my
sysadmin and the sysadmin at swan.uiuc.edu for falsely accusing me of
filing a sexual harrasment complaint against him. The real kicker of
that was that the person I supposedly complained to was at a University
3/4ths of the way across the US. Needless to say, she had no clue what
was going on but found out way more than she wanted to know because JMS
posted her address on the net without contacting her first. The Church
of Joe came to his "rescue" and flooded both our boxes for weeks. He
never apologised to either of us for being completely wrong and posting
information without first checking his sources.
Even better, go a bit further back and see some of the napalm JMS was
lobbing. It takes two to tango ya' know.
Deb, target shooter and one of the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse (I'm the
short blonde one riding the pony. ;)
thew...@cybernothing.org
: > Uhm. If it *was* a DoS, why didn't your ISP go ahead and bring charges
: > Theron? Were they feeling particularly magnanimous that day? <chuckle>
: > Most people threatening DoS usually don't cc the sysadmin. But nice
: > attempt at spin-doctoring.
: makes to that threat.
Well I'm not surprised, Theron. You pretty much *do* make up your own
definitions as the mood strikes you. You know, like why O'Hare left the
show, and a number of others.
: Denebeim knew it was a denieal-of-servide
: threat. I know it was a denial-of-service threat. Anyone else can
: define the situation as Jay Denebeim trying to be helpful, even though
: he knew his action would harm my ISP's mail service, or they can define
: it as Fuller trying to put spin control on a situation he caused and
: where Jay Denebeim really stuck it to "the mind fucker." Or they can
: define the situation as a crude denial-of-service threat by Denebeim.
Given your rather weak history in terms of accuracy, I'll opt for Jay
trying to be helpful. :)
: Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
: and a net terrorist for this particular action.
WAINS? You've never liked Jay, and you've always tried to put the
nastiest spin on just about anything that Jay has said or done. Perhaps
you're right and it was a DoS. I'm not going to buy it simply because
you've cried "wolf" once too often.
: > : > <snip more unsubstantiated bullshit>
: > : >
: > : > It really eats at you that rastb5.mod not only got created, but hasn't
: > : > fallen into the pits as you predicted during the RFD, doesn't it?
: > :
: > : Dont bother me a bit. This isn't a "sour grapes" observation.
: >
: > Sure it is, hon. :)
:
: I ain't your "hon." Rastb5.RomperRoom and I co-exist quite well on the
: Internet. I don't recall predicting that rastb5.RomperRoom will "fall
: into a pit." However, I will defer to any post I may have made at the
: time.
I'm not gonna go through the thousands of posts during the RFD. So I'll
concede the point until I have a couple of hours to kill. <g>
: I do recall predicting that Jay Denebeim would act more as a
: censor than as a moderator, and that he would not observe his own
: charter. I was bang on in that prediction.
And your evidence for this is. . .?
: Just call me "Nostradamas."
Nah, I'll just stick to calling you "hon". It so clearly rattles you,
that it's too fun to drop, and you sure as shit haven't earned the
position of "seer".
: > : Even
: > : Stevie Wonder can see that things have changed drastically on
: > : rastb5.RomperRoom since the Shadow War ended. Joe Straczynski's posts
: > : have dropped off dramatically. And the volume of posts to the newsgroup
: > : is way down over where it was a year ago. After this next new episode
: > : airs in the U.S., and if Warner Bros. makes its "official announcement"
: > : about Babylon 5's renewal, watch the volume of posts drop off even more.
: >
: > Want to give your evidence of this? Or should be just assume that you're
: > again posting your version of "how things should be". :)
:
: No, I'm giving my version of how I interpret the changes I've observed
: on rastb5.RomperRoom and the changes I've observed on rastb5.
Ah, so it *is* your version of "how things should be". :) Thanks for
clearing that up, hon.
: And I'm
: giving my personal prediction of how I thinks things are going to
: continue to change.
And no doubt it will come back to haunt you in the ensuing years. :)
: This is one area where each individual can observe for themselves, come
: to their own conclusions, and put any interpretation on those
: conclusions they wish. If you don't think things on rastb5.RomperRoom
: have changed drastically, then I won't argue the point.
That's good, 'cause you'd be wrong, hon.
:
: > Hugs & kisses,
:
: Coff, Coff, patooie! Anybody got any gum? (Apologies to Jim Carey. :-)
More like apologies to rastb5.mod and JMS are in order. Somehow I think
Mr. Carey would find you just as slimy and underhanded as jms, and a
number of other USENET notables do.
Hugs & kisses,
TMB
TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
<5o1e12$5...@winter.erols.com>...Feisty, aren't we, flinging accusations and insults from the header?
Exactly how do you prove an opinion wrong?
> :
> : > What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to
post as
> : > others do over on rastb5?
> :
> : (Major swing in subject here, not sure how that conclusion was drawn
from
> : the paragraph it was replying to, but didn't want to appear to be
snipping
> : to change context)
>
I think you were so quick to get off a shot at me that you didn't read it
correctly. I was referring to you drawing a conclusion that was a change
in subject. You know, the part you were responding to, the part that you
snipped out that makes you look foolish.
Hon? So may I assume a liberty with you and address you as Endora?
> Care to discuss the lack of negative criticism over in
> rastb5.mod?
Well, I was responding to you, but if this will help you feel better, knock
yourself out.
>
> :
> : I haven't seen anything in this thread about any of the moderators not
> : being allowed (or should not be allowed) to post in this group. It's
the
> : behavior of a few that get commented on.
>
> And the fact that *Jay* is a moderator on rastb5.mod, and because of his
> posts, he's a number of so far, unprovable epithets.
Your conclusion. Must need it for a later retort, eh? Why did you feel to
need to bring Jay into this anyway?
> : A moderator (any moderator anywhere) that goes into a non-moderated
group
> : to flame or post trolls is behavior that can be likened to a minister
> : preaching on Sunday morning about the weakness of the flesh and
> : overindulgence after tying one on the night before with a prostitute in
a
> : motel room.
> : Hypocrisy.
>
> <LOL>
As I said, some find humor and enjoy being hypocrites.
> A group of people got tired of the flames, baiting, and spoilers.
> For the record, the flames got boring, but having a spoiler-free place
was
> my main reason advocating the formation, and for my yes-vote.
Happy for you. I voted yes also, but dropped out after watching the
romper.room in action.
> But back to the point. There were and continue to be people who feel the
> need to take the formation of rastb5.mod as a personal slap in the face.
> And well they should. :) They continue to post articles *calculated* to
> bring Jay ove here. Jay does so, and responds in kind. Suddenly he's a
> hypocrite.
True, but also true that some people feel a finger being pointed and bite
it off.
In this thread, I have not mentioned any moderator by name. Why do you
insist on bringing Jay's name into this?
>
> There's a severe flaw in your logic. But that, like honesty has never
> stopped you or certain others from posting the crap anyway. :)
I always love that argument that your opinion differs from mine, so you are
dishonest and a liar. At least you have limited you vulgarities to a
slightly better level so far.
>
> : I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
people
> : and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what you
> : preach.
>
> <smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
> Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
If you'll check the thread, you'll find that I've originally cross posted
nothing, only replied (I do not change others words for my benefit and that
includes changing where someone else was posting to. It's not a right I
feel you, I, or anyone have); that in fact they are mostly responses to
you. At least when it's not an opinion and the facts can be established,
*try* to stick to them. It will hurt your chances to insult and toss out a
vulgarity, but you won't make silly accusations anymore.
>
> : In an effort to move this along a bit faster, the normal responses will
be
> : dealt with here:
> : 1. Where's your proof?
> : You can search Dejanews just as well as I can.
>
> You and a few others are the ones who've made the allegation. Debate 101
> starts out by stating that the burden of proof is on the accuser. Of
> course, if you're a proven liar, this becomes even more imperative,
should
> you actually wish to be taken seriously. :)
Afraid of what you'll find? The opinions are mine, the sources cited are
there. If it matters that much to you, knock yourself out. I invite you to
prove me a liar. Prove that the posts aren't on Dejanews.
>
> It's all still there,
> : everything from JMS citing health reason while he flames four people on
his
> : way out the door of this group to this post you're reading now.
> : 2. If you don't like it, complain to Satai.
> : Complain to the accused. Right
>
> There are 9 moderators (iirc) there is also an impartial overseer to whom
> appeals may be made if you feel any or all the moderators are acting
> unfairly. Perhaps you would do well to read . . .oops. Are you lying
> *again*, sport?
Nope, expressing an opinion that when you complain to a group of people
about one of their members, they tend to defend them.
Sport? I just love it when you try to be condescending.
>
> <snip pissing and moaning, but no real content>
In other words you couldn't come up with a snappy comeback, or did they
strike too close to home?
>
> : 6. For the obscenities, vulgarities, insults, etc...
> : Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
> : opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
>
> <grin> You, sir, are amazingly full of shit. But then you knew that,
> yes?
>
Well, so much for acting civilized. At least you again remained true to
form and proved my point exactly. When you can't get an opinion changed,
fling a vulgarity. How civilized. Are you vulgar in every endeavor in
life, or just in places like the newsgroups where you do not have to
account for your action and act civilized?
TMB
PS, I'll keep future posts shorter for you so that you won't have such a
hard time grasping the content and then snipping it out anyway
--
Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
webmaster@localhost
abuse@localhost
postmaster@localhost
Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
TMB
Davie!
Mr.
"I-can-still-moderate-you-here-by-changing-my-follow-up-to-alt.dev.null"!
I was wondering if you were going hop the wall and get into this.
Still a rough neighborhood, though. You'll probably be making a few header
"adjustments" before heading back over to romper.room.
Happy bleating, Davie.
TMB
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
: <5o1e12$5...@winter.erols.com>...
: > TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) proven liar and Master of the Sour Grape wrote:
: Feisty, aren't we, flinging accusations and insults from the header?
: Exactly how do you prove an opinion wrong?
You said that there was no negative criticism on rastb5.mod, when you were
corrected on that, and I gave my assumption that you didn't read the
group. You said that you did. Therefore, since there is negative
criticism regarding the show and it *is* posted to rastb5.mod, you are
therefore a liar. Simple enough for you, sport?
: > :
: > : > What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to
: post as
: > : > others do over on rastb5?
: > :
: > : (Major swing in subject here, not sure how that conclusion was drawn
: from
: > : the paragraph it was replying to, but didn't want to appear to be
: snipping
: > : to change context)
: >
: > Be my guest, hon.
:
: I think you were so quick to get off a shot at me that you didn't read it
: correctly.
<grin> I read it correctly. I simply meant that you may snip away to
your little heart's content. Do you think I'm taking you, a liar,
seriously?
: I was referring to you drawing a conclusion that was a change
: in subject. You know, the part you were responding to, the part that you
: snipped out that makes you look foolish.
Sorry, I don't remember it, so if you thought it made me look foolish, I'm
inclined to believe that it probably struck me as irrelevant. But if you
want to follow-up and bring it back in, be my guest, hon. :)
: Hon? So may I assume a liberty with you and address you as Endora?
You may call me whatever you like, but if you're looking to be accurate,
that wouldn't be the correct title.
: > Care to discuss the lack of negative criticism over in
: > rastb5.mod?
:
: Well, I was responding to you, but if this will help you feel better, knock
: yourself out.
Chickenshit. <grin>
: > : I haven't seen anything in this thread about any of the moderators not
: > : being allowed (or should not be allowed) to post in this group. It's
: the
: > : behavior of a few that get commented on.
: >
: > And the fact that *Jay* is a moderator on rastb5.mod, and because of his
: > posts, he's a number of so far, unprovable epithets.
:
: Your conclusion. Must need it for a later retort, eh? Why did you feel to
: need to bring Jay into this anyway?
I don't like character assassination by innuendo. Or was there another
moderator that you felt mistreated by?
: > : Hypocrisy.
: >
: > <LOL>
:
: As I said, some find humor and enjoy being hypocrites.
<grin> Show me my hypocrisy (but you can't just make it up, hon).
: > A group of people got tired of the flames, baiting, and spoilers.
: > For the record, the flames got boring, but having a spoiler-free place
: was
: > my main reason advocating the formation, and for my yes-vote.
:
: Happy for you. I voted yes also, but dropped out after watching the
: romper.room in action.
Meaning, you tried to get a flame by and it got bounced. Sorry for you.
:
: > But back to the point. There were and continue to be people who feel the
: > need to take the formation of rastb5.mod as a personal slap in the face.
: > And well they should. :) They continue to post articles *calculated* to
: > bring Jay ove here. Jay does so, and responds in kind. Suddenly he's a
: > hypocrite.
:
: True, but also true that some people feel a finger being pointed and bite
: it off.
: In this thread, I have not mentioned any moderator by name. Why do you
: insist on bringing Jay's name into this?
Oh you mean there's another moderator that you feel has been unfair? I'm
so used to having Theron & Co. blame all the troubles of the USENET
universe on Jay, that I simply assumed. So tell me, which moderator was
so mean to you?
: > There's a severe flaw in your logic. But that, like honesty has never
: > stopped you or certain others from posting the crap anyway. :)
:
: I always love that argument that your opinion differs from mine, so you are
: dishonest and a liar. At least you have limited you vulgarities to a
: slightly better level so far.
You made a flat out statement. There was no "opinion" about it. You lied
and I'll continue to point it out, sport.
:
: >
: > : I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
: people
: > : and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what you
: > : preach.
: >
: > <smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
: > Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
:
: If you'll check the thread, you'll find that I've originally cross posted
: nothing, only replied (I do not change others words for my benefit and that
: includes changing where someone else was posting to.
How very noble of you. It still doesn't change the fact taht you
crossposted and you lied in that post. :)
: It's not a right I
: feel you, I, or anyone have); that in fact they are mostly responses to
: you. At least when it's not an opinion and the facts can be established,
: *try* to stick to them. It will hurt your chances to insult and toss out a
: vulgarity, but you won't make silly accusations anymore.
See above.
: >
: > : In an effort to move this along a bit faster, the normal responses will
: be
: > : dealt with here:
: > : 1. Where's your proof?
: > : You can search Dejanews just as well as I can.
: >
: > You and a few others are the ones who've made the allegation. Debate 101
: > starts out by stating that the burden of proof is on the accuser. Of
: > course, if you're a proven liar, this becomes even more imperative,
: should
: > you actually wish to be taken seriously. :)
:
: Afraid of what you'll find?
Nope. The burden of proof is on you, sport. Afraid you can't back up
your assertion?
: The opinions are mine, the sources cited are
: there.
Uhm. What sources, sport? Deja News is an archive, but you've cited *no
one*. You've merely made unfounded allegations and again, been unwilling
to back them up. I'm not gonna do your work for you, you lazy bastard. :)
That's *your* job.
: If it matters that much to you, knock yourself out. I invite you to
: prove me a liar. Prove that the posts aren't on Dejanews.
Can't do it in this post, I'll give you one with your very own title.
Probably sometime on Monday.
: > There are 9 moderators (iirc) there is also an impartial overseer to whom
: > appeals may be made if you feel any or all the moderators are acting
: > unfairly. Perhaps you would do well to read . . .oops. Are you lying
: > *again*, sport?
:
: Nope, expressing an opinion that when you complain to a group of people
: about one of their members, they tend to defend them.
: Sport? I just love it when you try to be condescending.
And I just love it when you show your monumental ignorance, sport. One of
the individuals on the satai list (and there are more than just the 9
moderators) is charged with overseeing the moderators, the feed, and is
the one to appeal to in the case where someone feels that *all* the
moderators are being unfair. This individual has no vested interested in
rastb5.mod, he's a truly neutral party. I'd give you his name, but
frankly, I can't remember it. Hopefully someone else can give it to you,
or barring that, I'll find out and post it.
:
: >
: > <snip pissing and moaning, but no real content>
:
: In other words you couldn't come up with a snappy comeback, or did they
: strike too close to home?
Nope, too boring to parody. Sorry to disappoint. :)
:
: >
: > : 6. For the obscenities, vulgarities, insults, etc...
: > : Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
: > : opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
: >
: > <grin> You, sir, are amazingly full of shit. But then you knew that,
: > yes?
: >
:
: Well, so much for acting civilized. At least you again remained true to
: form and proved my point exactly. When you can't get an opinion changed,
: fling a vulgarity. How civilized. Are you vulgar in every endeavor in
: life, or just in places like the newsgroups where you do not have to
: account for your action and act civilized?
I use 'em as the occasion warrants. I especially delight in using them
with someone who feels that a few well chosen epithets somehow demean a
person or take away from their point. And yes, I use 'em in the real
world as well, dickhead. :)
: PS, I'll keep future posts shorter for you so that you won't have such a
: hard time grasping the content and then snipping it out anyway
Oh don't worry, sport. After posting your articles with the lies there
for all the world to see and the name of the overseer, if someone doesn't
post it first, I'll pretty much stick to poking fun and taking your shit
out of context and generally enjoying myself at your expense.
jdn
TheW...@Endor.com wrote in article <5o0qco$8...@winter.erols.com>...
Yes, well that's a good point. The only thing being that the whole
'dispute' happened I think nearly a year ago, and since I tank my computer
system too often to count, and since I don't keep an archive of my posts, I
can't. But that's okay, there have been numerous discussions about alleged
censorship on the moderated group since then that, although I've hardly
been fully vindicated, I feel that at least the issue has been raised to a
more significant degree than it had been previously to my knowledge (though
since I've only been posting to this or the moderated group for 1.5-2
years, I missed all the 'glorious battles' from the beginning).
:: :
:: :Gee, just as this was getting interesting it deteriorates into
:: :mindless sweeping generalizations, flames and trolls...
::
:: Not a mindless generalization if it is true, and it is. Read the vast
:: majority of Jay's past posts (and it looks like you have access to them
:: <grin>).
:
:What, because he's a moderator on rastb5.mod, he's not allowed to post as
:others do over on rastb5?
When did I ever say he wasn't allowed? Read the posts. I have no problem
with him posting anywhere or everywhere. Never said or implied otherwise.
Just as I can post anything I want here, be it mindless, informative,
bitchy, whiny, intelligent, or just plain inane. Just as I can point out
the hypocrisy of certain individuals when it comes to argumentative
strategy (or lack thereof). Your mileage may vary, but that's your
prerogative. If you want to defend without question someone I think has
questionably moderation tactics, go for it.
:
:: :Let me get this straight: just from reading *your* statement, this
:: :person is a pussy for... behaving just like you? Oh wait, except when
:: :he chooses to champion an NG set up to avoid such silly behavior, then
:: :he's a whimp. So if one does what one complains about, one is a
:: :pussy... you don't by any chance have 9 lives do you?
::
:: Cute. No, he's a pussy (and a wimp) because he's made direct 'threats'
to
:: me, mainly, to post to this newsgroup the various posts and e-mails we
had
:: between us over some argument about censorship on the moderated group,
:: which he was refraining from doing because he didn't want to
'embarrass'
:: me. Now, given the fact that I am fully aware of my own capacity to
:: embarrass myself without outside help, that didn't phase me, so I
:: challenged him repeatedly to do so, in large part because I believed
those
:: messages would reveal how much of a two-faced hypocrite he is. He
:: declined. That makes him a wimp.
:
:So why don't *you* post them? Or better yet, why don't you appeal to the
:satai list?
See above. Again, this is an old topic. Must have missed it the first
through 20 times.
:
:<snip deconstruction of pseudo-christian homophobe>
:
:: But that's sort of the point, where an individual just levels a charge
:: totally unsubstantiated, in large part I think because he didn't have
an
:: argumentative leg to stand on concerning our disagreement.
:
:Gee, kinda like you've just done, yes?
No, though, of course, since you were apparently absent during the entire
previous squaller, it would legitimately appear that way to you. And I
have always fully admitted that I have an invested interest in the debate,
so I may view it otherwise than you or anyone else.
:
:<snip>
:
:--
:
Jay Denebeim
In article <5o1sfe$6...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
David Stinson <dsti...@ix.netcomz.com> wrote:
>In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
> "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
>:3. Form my own newsgroup.
>:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow this
>:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
>
>Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to pass in
>the first place.
Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
*deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
following.
Jay
--
* Jay Denebeim, Moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: b5...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
* moderator contact address: b5mod-...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us *
AJT3823437
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vampires
From: dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
Date: 16 Jun 1997 00:52:36 -0400
Message-ID: <5o2gqk$4...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
In article <5o1sfe$6...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
David Stinson <dsti...@ix.netcomz.com> wrote:
>In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
> "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
>:3. Form my own newsgroup.
>:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow
this
>:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
>
>Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to
pass in
>the first place.
Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
*deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
following.
Jay
Who? If you're talking about that chick from One Day at a Time who was
booted off the show because of a drug problem, I think you misspelled her
name.
Robert Holland
David Stinson wrote:
> So he should just let you post your insults instead, and never say a
> word
> here...
He can do as he likes here. Apparently Jay found the time to start
thislittle thread. Don't know why, and he ain't talking.
> :Hypocrisy.
We are all hypocrites. Every one of us at some point. However, we don't
needa moderated ng to establish that fact.
> Yes, you have exhinbited it on many occasions. Including several
> recent ones.
As have we all, Dave, as have we all.
> :I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
> people
> :and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what you
>
> :preach.
>
> Well ,as Robert Holland says, you don't have to watch what you say
> here. Seems
> to me that several here, who are not moderators, are overly fond of
> absuing
> that priviledge.
Hey! That's right! You can post whatever you like to rastb5, and have
othersshare their opinions of you (as Dave has demonstrated for us).
> Nice rewrite of the actual events - try a goodbye letter explaining
> why he
> shouldn't have to be a shooting gallery for a group of people who
> seemed to
> enjoy the concept of hounding him simply because of who he was.
Oh, don't be a sorehead. Straczynski was fully armed and had his squad
ofcrack attack chihuahuas to cover him. I think he actually tired of the
fight.
The only thing that remains unexplained is why he did what he did to the
Rangers, who filtered his feed in favor of Jay Denebeim.
> And you notably disregard the CONSTANT flaming of those four persons
> (at least
> three of them) during the period just previous. One would be well
> advised to
> check the archives of this newsgroup for the time period from
> September to
> November of 1995 for the FULL CONTEXT of that situation.
See what I mean by everyone is a hypocrite? It takes both sides to keepa
flamewar going.
> Freedom of speech has a concommitant responsibility to not abuse that
> freedom.
> It would be nice of people to remember that.
Perhaps one abuse of free speech is to impose your opinion of a
television showon those who might like to discuss it in terms other than
your own.
--RH
Robert Holland
TheW...@Endor.com wrote: <LOL> A group of people got tired of the
flames, baiting, and spoilers.
> For the record, the flames got boring, but having a spoiler-free place
> was
> my main reason advocating the formation, and for my yes-vote.
Yeah, it became clear there were certain people who could not
toleratecertain opinions of the tv show, and they needed to be isolated
to be
happy. Thus, my yes vote too.
> But back to the point. There were and continue to be people who feel
> the
> need to take the formation of rastb5.mod as a personal slap in the
> face.
> And well they should. :) They continue to post articles *calculated*
> to
> bring Jay over here. Jay does so, and responds in kind. Suddenly
> he's a
> hypocrite.
Actually, Jay started this thread. Wonder why he didn't stick around.
> There's a severe flaw in your logic. But that, like honesty has never
>
> stopped you or certain others from posting the crap anyway. :)
I dunno. Anyone claiming to be honest in Usenet is instantly suspect.
> : I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
> people
> : and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what
> you
> : preach.
>
> <smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
>
> Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
Actually, you can read the moderated ng to find flames in violation of
thecharter, from time to time. I think Gherkin chased off one or two in
his
last go-around.
--RH
Robert Holland
TMB
> TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
> : TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
> : <5o1e12$5...@winter.erols.com>...
> : > TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) proven liar and Master of the Sour Grape
wrote:
> : Feisty, aren't we, flinging accusations and insults from the header?
> : Exactly how do you prove an opinion wrong?
>
> You said that there was no negative criticism on rastb5.mod, when you
were
> corrected on that, and I gave my assumption that you didn't read the
> group. You said that you did. Therefore, since there is negative
> criticism regarding the show and it *is* posted to rastb5.mod, you are
> therefore a liar. Simple enough for you, sport?
Not bad, except I did not say there was not any negative criticism in the
romper.room.
What I said was that is was watered down...stress free if you would. And
in another thread. Even gave examples like "hey, you screwed up" in here
to "you may have made a mistake" in the other. (or words to that effect)
It makes it so less negative that there's no way stress could accompany it,
which was the point I was making.
A point that you snipped out and never addressed again because it gave you
ground on which to pontificate on for you benefit.
Why do you always change fact or context to get a witty remark in?
Just because someone doesn't post daily to a group does not mean they don't
read that group. I see you defend Ms Bobbits low IQ in one group and shred
Libby with vulgarities in another, but I guess I must not read those
either. But to be fair, I have posted one (1) time to A.R.K.
The rest of your reply in your post is simply more of this. Renaming my
opinions as written facts, demanding proof, trying to get others to jump in
and help you, etc.
Context distortion, rewriting, vulgarities, insults, and so on.
Anyone who has followed these two threads you have been hounding me around
in knows what I wrote, and the spin you've applied to them. Ever stop to
think how often you hear the word 'spin' in this and other groups? Take a
hint.
Correcting your blatant attempts to change the meaning of what I wrote has
become tiring, so claim your victory and whatever little prize it is you
think you've won.
Knock yourself out.
TMB
Jay Denebeim <dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote in article
<5o2gqk$4...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>...
> In article <5o1sfe$6...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
> David Stinson <dsti...@ix.netcomz.com> wrote:
> >In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
> > "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
>
> >:3. Form my own newsgroup.
> >:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow
this
> >:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
> >
> >Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to
pass in
> >the first place.
>
> Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
> *deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
> rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
> following.
>
> Jay
Weak, Jay. Hardly worth the trip over the wall. Of course that would have
not been bounced in your group, nope, not a troll at all. Nay, not an
insult or barb. No way it would have been bounced.
I see the Witch's call for back-up worked. Got both you and Davie over the
wall on the same day.
How typical, yet sadly predictable.
TMB
AJT3823437 <ajt38...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970616063...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> Subject: Re: Newsgroup Vampires
> From: dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim)
> Date: 16 Jun 1997 00:52:36 -0400
> Message-ID: <5o2gqk$4...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>
>
> David Stinson <dsti...@ix.netcomz.com> wrote:
> >In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
> > "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
>
> >:3. Form my own newsgroup.
> >:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow
> this
> >:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
> >
> >Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to
> pass in
> >the first place.
>
> Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
> *deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
> rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
> following.
>
> Jay
>
> booted off the show because of a drug problem, I think you misspelled her
> name.
>
witty troll at the time and couldn't bother with little things like being
correct.
thew...@cybernothing.org
Robert Holland (rhol...@wco.com) wrote:
: TheW...@Endor.com wrote: <LOL> A group of people got tired of the
: flames, baiting, and spoilers.
:
: > For the record, the flames got boring, but having a spoiler-free place
: > was
: > my main reason advocating the formation, and for my yes-vote.
:
: Yeah, it became clear there were certain people who could not
: toleratecertain opinions of the tv show, and they needed to be isolated
: to be
: happy. Thus, my yes vote too.
Robert, I don't think I've ever denied that a number of people got too
pissed off over some of the negative criticism, the trolls, etc., and
voted for rastb5.mod because of this. And I think I was pretty vocal over
stating that the only reason for the formation that I *didn't* see as
legitimate was people voting for it solely to bring JMS back to USENET.
Pretty much the reason *any* moderated group gets formed is to keep the
signal to noise ratio at a reasonable level.
:
:
: > But back to the point. There were and continue to be people who feel
: > the
: > need to take the formation of rastb5.mod as a personal slap in the
: > face.
: > And well they should. :) They continue to post articles *calculated*
: > to
: > bring Jay over here. Jay does so, and responds in kind. Suddenly
: > he's a
: > hypocrite.
:
: Actually, Jay started this thread. Wonder why he didn't stick around.
Don't know. Why don't you ask him? However, this doesn't negate my
observation that should Jay respond in kind to the trolls, this somehow
makes him a hypocrite. I distinctly remember a thread during the RFD
where proponents stated whether or not they would abandon rastb5. IIRC,
Jay stated that he'd be sticking around here and participating.
:
: > There's a severe flaw in your logic. But that, like honesty has never
: >
: > stopped you or certain others from posting the crap anyway. :)
:
: I dunno. Anyone claiming to be honest in Usenet is instantly suspect.
Why? I'm not claiming total honesty myself, but I know that I pretty much
try to be as honest as possible. Why would that make me suspect?
: > : I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
: > people
: > : and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what
: > you
: > : preach.
: >
: > <smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
: >
: > Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
:
: Actually, you can read the moderated ng to find flames in violation of
: thecharter, from time to time. I think Gherkin chased off one or two in
: his
: last go-around.
I've seen posts from time to time that I wondered about, however I keep in
mind that there is an auto-moderation system in place that occasionally
lets innappropriate posts through, as well as *very* human moderators, who
are susceptible to mistakes. Overall, I think that the system works, (of
course I've never had a post rejected so I realize I'm prone to being less
objective) and the fact that rastb5.mod is a relatively high traffic
newsgroup tends to bear my opinion out.
thew...@cybernothing.org
: > TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: > : TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
: > : <5o1e12$5...@winter.erols.com>...
: > : > TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) proven liar and Master of the Sour Grape
: wrote:
: > : Feisty, aren't we, flinging accusations and insults from the header?
: > : Exactly how do you prove an opinion wrong?
: >
: > You said that there was no negative criticism on rastb5.mod, when you
: were
: > corrected on that, and I gave my assumption that you didn't read the
: > group. You said that you did. Therefore, since there is negative
: > criticism regarding the show and it *is* posted to rastb5.mod, you are
: > therefore a liar. Simple enough for you, sport?
:
: romper.room.
: What I said was that is was watered down...stress free if you would. And
: in another thread. Even gave examples like "hey, you screwed up" in here
: to "you may have made a mistake" in the other. (or words to that effect)
: It makes it so less negative that there's no way stress could accompany it,
: which was the point I was making.
Oh my. I guess this means I *shouldn't* repost our *exact* exchange.
Hmm. No, I think I will.
From: "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5,alt.tv.babylon-5,rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Fake Accents on Babylon 5
Date: 10 Jun 1997 15:12:45 GMT
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--
Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
abuse@localhost
postmaster@localhost
Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
Troy-...@psu.edu wrote in article <8656368...@dejanews.com>...
> From: Troy_...@ccmail.orl.mmc.com
>
> I've been reading some old JMS messages from Season 1. I think it's
> funny how JMS has >CHANGED< over the past three years. His messages were
> fiery and slamming, especially when he felt insulted. The JMS of 1994
> reminds me of the G'Kar of 2258. Hot and quick to anger. The JMS that I
> read today is more like the G'Kar of 2261. Quiet and contemplative and
> extremely restrained.
>
> Coincidence? Or has JMS passed through the same crucible as G'Kar?
>
> Troy :)
>
>
> From: jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5)
> Date: 6 Jun 1997 03:09:01 -0400
> Lines: 24
>
> Take it as read that anything I say on this has a vested interest, and
> is utterly subjective, and therefore not to be trusted. That stated:
>
> I've found, over time, that this particular job -- running a show with a
> fair amount of visibility -- will either make you into a monster, or
> calm you down. I've noticed, as you have, that my messages have grown
> overall a lot less intemperate. Other people around me have noticed
> that I don't get angry as often, hardly ever anymore; I'm fairly serene
> in most things (mainly I think by utterly disconnecting from my life, a
> requirement to get through the load of work involved)...and they have
> suggested that I've more or less mellowed out.
>
> Yes and no...primarily, I think it's this: what I set out to prove, I
> proved. What I wanted to do, I did. Once you realize that, you come
> into a certain kind of calm. I am, or like to think that I am, just as
> intense now as ever before, but I'm definitely *calmer* now. The work
> is out there now...I can relax.
>
>
> jms
>
I imagine that being totally shielded from negative criticism ("hey, that
made no sense") in the original group to the stuff over in romper.room
("excuse me, sir, but maybe you overlooked this. Maybe. Er, possibly...Or
I could be wrong") would provide a certain amount of calm.
Hell, I'd be alot calmer day to day if I had a bunch of people
proof-reading everything negative out of my life.
TMB
(waiting for the attack Chihuahuas to zip over from romper.room for a
"quick and witty retort" or "righteous indignation" before going back
behind the wall)
From: thew...@cybernothing.org (TheW...@Endor.com)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5,alt.tv.babylon-5,rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Fake Accents on Babylon 5
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5,alt.tv.babylon-5,rec.arts.tv
Date: 11 Jun 1997 17:36:47 GMT
Organization: cyberNOTHING: nothing is cooler just because it is cyber.
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References: <8655456...@dejanews.com> <5n8b6d$g...@nntp02.primenet.com> <8656368...@dejanews.com> <01bc75af$fe251160$1e5c...@sh1.ro.com>
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TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: I imagine that being totally shielded from negative criticism ("hey, that
: made no sense") in the original group to the stuff over in romper.room
<LOL> Having been the unwitting perpetrator of some *really* negative
criticism, it's clear to me at least that you, sir, are talking out of
your ass. JMS was not only civil to me (I had said that now we knew that
bad music made it into the future, refering to the abysmal song in
Walkabout, not knowing that JMS had written it) but we had a nice
discussion about music in general and music on the show specifically.
Perhaps you might do well to actually *read* the group that you're so
quick to disparage, rather than sounding like a whiny schoolchild who's
been told that, no, you can't piss in the sandbox.
--
TheWitch
"You run the grave risk of being turned into a piece of bread and toasted"
--T. H. White
"The Once and Future King"
From: "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv,rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5,alt.tv.babylon-5,rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Fake Accents on Babylon 5
Date: 11 Jun 1997 20:35:58 GMT
Organization: Classified NATO Top Secret
Lines: 49
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Witty. That'll make me change my opinion by receiving insults from someone
who has a strange idea of what the different bodily orifices are capable
of.
If you have actually read my post, maybe you could be so kind as to explain
how you came to the conclusion that I don't read romper.room?
I actually have found it quite amusing and have used examples of various
posts to prove several points in Human Behavior and Psychology.
The last example was an 'A' in demonstrating how hypocrisy and self-denial
hand in hand usually co-exist within a given case study where ego and/or
inferiority complexes are manifested.
Of course, I imagine championing a cause of civility using obscene language
to describe an alleged attribute and insults could prove much the same
point.
TMB
--
Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
abuse@localhost
postmaster@localhost
Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
<5nmnnf$k...@winter.erols.com>...
> TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
>
> : I imagine that being totally shielded from negative criticism ("hey,
that
> : made no sense") in the original group to the stuff over in romper.room
>
> <LOL> Having been the unwitting perpetrator of some *really* negative
> criticism, it's clear to me at least that you, sir, are talking out of
> your ass. JMS was not only civil to me (I had said that now we knew that
> bad music made it into the future, refering to the abysmal song in
> Walkabout, not knowing that JMS had written it) but we had a nice
> discussion about music in general and music on the show specifically.
>
> Perhaps you might do well to actually *read* the group that you're so
> quick to disparage, rather than sounding like a whiny schoolchild who's
> been told that, no, you can't piss in the sandbox.
>
>
> --
> TheWitch
>
> "You run the grave risk of being turned into a piece of bread and
toasted"
>
> --T. H. White
> "The Once and Future King"
>
Now, anyone and everyone may draw their own conclusions. *I* say you
lied. :)
: A point that you snipped out and never addressed again because it gave you
: ground on which to pontificate on for you benefit.
Ooh. Don't quit your day job Swahmi. I never addressed it again, because
you changed to subject to berate me for assuming that you hadn't read the
newsgroup. Nice try. :)
: Why do you always change fact or context to get a witty remark in?
Depends on whether or not I take the person seriously, sport. :) If I
believe that the individual is being sincere, and has a reasonably
intelligent argument, I don't snip for entertainment value. When I'm of
the opinion that the person is a snot-nosed, whiner, with nothing other
than a chip on his/her shoulder, and a propensity for dishonesty, then
I'll amuse myself at their expense. Guess which category you fall under.
: Just because someone doesn't post daily to a group does not mean they don't
: read that group. I see you defend Ms Bobbits low IQ in one group and shred
: Libby with vulgarities in another,
Uhm. No. Those threads are in a.s.n. and crossposted to a number of
newsgroups. But thanks for taking the time to go research my posting
habits. I'd be flattered if you or your opinion of me mattered. :)
: but I guess I must not read those
: either.
<grin> I'd venture to guess that you did a quick perusal of Deja News
rather than being a lurker in either a.s.n. or a.r.k.
: But to be fair, I have posted one (1) time to A.R.K.
And no doubt your were flamed out of existence. :)
: The rest of your reply in your post is simply more of this. Renaming my
: opinions as written facts, demanding proof,
You made the opening statement, sport. Whining about the consequences and
trying to backpedal on your "views" merely amuses me (and my guess a
number of others as well).
: trying to get others to jump in
: and help you, etc.
Of course you have evidence of this, yes? :)
: Context distortion, rewriting, vulgarities, insults, and so on.
: Anyone who has followed these two threads you have been hounding me around
: in knows what I wrote, and the spin you've applied to them.
Oh dear. Do you feel hounded? In two *whole* threads? Jeez, maybe you
should rethink making stupid remarks in public if you don't like the
results, sport. <grin> I'll point out that *I'm* not the one who felt
the need to go do an author profile over on DN, but then I've made it
clear that you just aren't worthy of the effort.
: Ever stop to
: think how often you hear the word 'spin' in this and other groups?
Ever looked up "non sequiter"? :)
: Take a hint.
Blow me.
: Correcting your blatant attempts to change the meaning of what I wrote has
: become tiring, so claim your victory and whatever little prize it is you
: think you've won.
: Knock yourself out.
Sport, you're the only one who saw this as some sort of contest. :)
You've been an amusing diversion, nothing more. Sorry to disappoint you.
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: Jay Denebeim <dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote in article
: <5o2gqk$4...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>...
: >
: > Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
: > *deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
: > rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
: > following.
: >
: > Jay
: Weak, Jay. Hardly worth the trip over the wall. Of course that would have
: not been bounced in your group, nope, not a troll at all. Nay, not an
: insult or barb. No way it would have been bounced.
: I see the Witch's call for back-up worked. Got both you and Davie over the
: wall on the same day.
<smirk> As if I needed it, or that *anyone* is at my beck and call.
: How typical, yet sadly predictable.
What's more amusing than anything, is the fact that you're unable to
entertain the possibility that your own stupidity has brought this on. :)
Hugs & kisses,
kivasmama
Theron Fuller whined...
<other silliness snipped--if you want to see it, read back a little>
<account of how big 'ol nasty Jay-the-moderator-of-*that*-NG
threatened to send poor little 'ol misunderstood and beleaguered
Theron Fuller the very information he requested and claims to have
been denied>
> This is a threat to launch a denial-of-service attack.
> Jay Denebeim engaged in a threat of net terrorism.
>
>
>
*giggle*
Oh Theron Fuller (since you seem to have this thing with full names),
thy name is known. As is the enmity between you and Jay.
Big deal. Welcome to Usenet, where anyone can say anything just about
anywhere and actually come to believe their opinions *matter.* That
is, of course, unless folks get tired of it and set up a moderated
group (and there are a few of them out there--not just rastb5m).
As for having your posts deleted--how is it I occasionally *see* posts
from you over there? Kinda blows your theory of personal persecution,
doesn't it? Besides, there are several moderators, it'd have to be a
real conspiracy. That's it, a conspiracy to silence Theron Fuller.
Maybe you can get a movie deal out of it?
--
Dianne <*>
who finds Theron Fuller amusing in a flea-circus way...
kivasmama
jdn penned...
> Read the vast
> majority of Jay's past posts (and it looks like you have access to them
> <grin>).
>
>
Actually, I have about as much access to them as you do, although if
you mean if I asked nicely he'd let me see them... well, that depends
on whether you'd ask nicely.
As for the rest of your post, I read a lot more than I post and I've
been around for a while. Sure Jay's got opinions, he gets pissed
sometimes, etc.; but as an individual--a right which I'd expect you to
support. As a moderator, he appears (to me anyway) to go overboard to
let even idiots share their opinions--as long as their presentation is
within the charter of the ng.
As for not carrying through on a threat to behave unethically, that
doesn't' spell "whimp" to me. I've made the occasional stupid threat
when I was hot under the collar myself. To be honest, anyone who does
that and then risks looking like a fool rather than follow up on it is
a bit braver than I. But again, this is *my* opinion, which I've
never claimed to be unbiased. In point of fact (and this is something
else you don't need to know about me, but what the heck, I can tell
you whatever I want here, right?),I found the moderated group a "safe"
place to hide out in about a year back when I was going through a
tough time and I've been much more appreciative of it ever since.
--
Dianne <*>
who appreciates the fact that usenet *also* has room for moderated
ngs.
Jay Denebeim
In article <33A4D642...@wco.com>,
Robert Holland <rhol...@wco.com> wrote:
>Actually, Jay started this thread. Wonder why he didn't stick around.
Mostly because I've been drowning in posts since the last few episodes
started airing. That and I'm writing a new version of the moderation
software.
kivasmama
TMB penned, among other odd things...
> 5. You're going into my killfile.
> Thank you. The ultimate in problem solving.
> Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
> opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
>
>
Excuse me? Perhaps a post has failed to get propagated to the server
here, but I didn't see any mention of kill files and very little in
the way of obscenities or vulgarities... As for insults, well, when
one has such *big* targets, it's hard to resist.
But the the *real* point I responded: your rant about hypocrisy.
First of all, being a moderator of a group has little to nothing to do
with taking a moral stand, unlike being, say, a member of the
christian clergy. All that is required of a moderator is to ensure
that posts to the group fall within the charter of *that group.*
Period. If s/he wants to behave in exactly the opposite manner
outside of the ng--so what? Or is there some kind of NG hell I've not
been told about--wait, being targeted by a spammer just may qualify...
but then your average moderator deals with enough spam as to *deserve*
to come out and play...
Actually, I find your "righteous" indignation more than a bit funny, I
find it boring.
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
Theron Fuller penned...
> Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
> and a net terrorist for this particular action.
>
>
Ah! Finally, you, "personally" is at the base of it, isn't it? If
you guys hate each other's guts, it isn't surprising you'd see him a
"nasty piece of work." I've not found you any less likely to behave
in "net terrorist" tactics, so I find your hypocrisy... telling.
Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
I'm not getting in the middle of that. Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
I'm just glad you finally admitted it was a "personal" problem;
perhaps there's hope for you yet.
nah
--
Dianne <*>
Ben Matterson
Deb Fuller wrote:
>
> Deb, target shooter and one of the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse (I'm the
> short blonde one riding the pony. ;)
I always envisioned the four horsemen riding big horses, like
clydesdales (sp?), that could easily tromp on their victims skull cases.
Maybe you're riding a very big pony?
--
Ben
Art imitates life. TV imitates art.
thew...@cybernothing.org
kivasmama (dhe...@polaris.attmail.com) wrote:
: TMB penned, among other odd things...
: > 5. You're going into my killfile.
: > Thank you. The ultimate in problem solving.
: > 6. For the obscenities, vulgarities, insults, etc...
: > Amazing (ain't freedom wonderful, when you can manipulate it?) how your
: > opinions can be posted here, isn't it?
: >
: >
:
: Excuse me? Perhaps a post has failed to get propagated to the server
: here, but I didn't see any mention of kill files and very little in
: the way of obscenities or vulgarities... As for insults, well, when
: one has such *big* targets, it's hard to resist.
I sure as hell don't recall mentioning killfiles, but I imagine a couple
of my posts haven't propagated to your server. I figure anyone who has a
problem with the words "piss" and "ass" and seems to think that those are
vulgarities deserves to see the real thing in action. Well, actually I
was pretty fucking restrained if you want to know the truth. :)
:
: But the the *real* point I responded: your rant about hypocrisy.
: First of all, being a moderator of a group has little to nothing to do
: with taking a moral stand, unlike being, say, a member of the
: christian clergy. All that is required of a moderator is to ensure
: that posts to the group fall within the charter of *that group.*
: Period. If s/he wants to behave in exactly the opposite manner
: outside of the ng--so what? Or is there some kind of NG hell I've not
: been told about--wait, being targeted by a spammer just may qualify...
: but then your average moderator deals with enough spam as to *deserve*
: to come out and play...
<chuckle> I just found out that most of my good friends made it onto the
net.scum page. One of them for having the audacity to post that perhaps
migrating over to alt.recovery.abuse would stop the sex spam from showing
up on alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.
: Actually, I find your "righteous" indignation more than a bit funny, I
: find it boring.
Oh I've never found him/her terribly funny, it's in the lovely way s/he
jumped through the hoops and furiously tried to avoid the whole honesty
issue.
kivasmama
TMB penned...
> He did, but in all fairness, he was in a real big hurry to show off his
> witty troll at the time and couldn't bother with little things like being
> correct.
>
>
I hear the "clueless police" are on their way to you right now...
--
Dianne <*>
thew...@cybernothing.org
Jay Denebeim (dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us) wrote:
: In article <5o1sfe$6...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
: David Stinson <dsti...@ix.netcomz.com> wrote:
: >In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
: > "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
:
: >:3. Form my own newsgroup.
: >:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow this
: >:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
: >
: >Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to pass in
: >the first place.
: Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
: *deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
: rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
: following.
Oh my. This guy is a *fan* of Mackenzie Phillips? This explains much.
thew...@cybernothing.org
jdn (king...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: TheW...@Endor.com wrote in article <5o0qco$8...@winter.erols.com>...
Frankly, I've only heard you, Theron, and the British git complaining.
I'm not saying that there aren't others, but those are the only one's I've
seen. IMO Theron's complaints are always highly suspect, and I've got no
use for whiners like the git.
You've shown yourself to be relatively reasonable, other than having a
penchant for calling Jay names that, as far as I can tell, are wholly
unjustified.
I suggest that you try posting again, and if your post gets bounced that
you use the satai list. I just don't see the selective censorship. If
anything there's a lot of stuff from a *lot* of people, that I'd never let
through. This is why I'm not a moderator. :)
Again, if you're just venting, have at it. But if you truly think that
there are things that should be changed, then sitting here bitching won't
solve things. Anyone may join the satai list, I suggest that you do.
<snip>
: :: But that's sort of the point, where an individual just levels a charge
: :: totally unsubstantiated, in large part I think because he didn't have
: an
: :: argumentative leg to stand on concerning our disagreement.
: :
: :Gee, kinda like you've just done, yes?
:
: No, though, of course, since you were apparently absent during the entire
: previous squaller, it would legitimately appear that way to you.
Yes I was absent, and I apologize for being a bitch before getting all the
facts. However, I'm not sure I understand things. You're calling Jay
names and complaining about his ability to moderate because of an event
that happened a year ago?
If this is just a personal dislike of Jay, I'll stand back and let you
boys do battle. But if you have a legitimate complaint concerning
moderator misconduct, I believe it should be discussed. Now mind you,
I've not seen anything from any of the moderators that I believe to be
misconduct, but I haven't paid much attention for the last 6 or 8 months.
: And I
: have always fully admitted that I have an invested interest in the debate,
: so I may view it otherwise than you or anyone else.
Well since you admit that you don't have the post(s) in question it makes
it a little difficult to judge. Again, I suggest that you try using the
moderated ng and if Jay or anyone else bounces a post that you consider
within the charter, take it up on satai and/or post about it here.
Deb Fuller
Ben Matterson wrote:
> I always envisioned the four horsemen riding big horses, like
> clydesdales (sp?), that could easily tromp on their victims skull cases.
> Maybe you're riding a very big pony?
Size doesn't matter. I've been almost trampled by shetlands with an
attitude. The smaller they are, the more devious they become. :)
Deb
TMB
Ah. The twins unite to face a common foe, though the whole time claiming
how boring and non-humorous. But it does give them tag team oportunities,
perfect to play off each other. How sweet.
--
Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
abuse@localhost
postmaster@localhost
Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
<5o4711$a...@winter.erols.com>...
TMB
kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
<MPG.e0f4dddb...@news.netnews.att.com>...
> Theron Fuller penned...
> > Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
> > and a net terrorist for this particular action.
> >
> >
>
> Ah! Finally, you, "personally" is at the base of it, isn't it? If
> you guys hate each other's guts, it isn't surprising you'd see him a
> "nasty piece of work." I've not found you any less likely to behave
> in "net terrorist" tactics, so I find your hypocrisy... telling.
>
> Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
> Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
> I'm not getting in the middle of that.
RFLOL! Wooeee! That's a good one! You?!?!?! Stay out of anything? Stop
it! No way you could keep out of it, it's what you're here for! You're
killing me here, Diane!
No, really, you've got to be kidding?
Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
> heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
One out of two ain't bad, after all, your still reading and posting at
every chance.
TMB
TMB
Diane, I see you've paid excellent attention in the Cut to Distort 101
class.
Here's an "A" for efforts!
Sorry, but you only get a "D" for the failed witty remark, but keep trying!
TMB
--
Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
webmaster@localhost
abuse@localhost
postmaster@localhost
Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
<MPG.e0f509c7...@news.netnews.att.com>...
Theron Fuller
kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
<MPG.e0f4dddb...@news.netnews.att.com>...
> Theron Fuller penned...
> > Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
> > and a net terrorist for this particular action.
> >
> >
>
> Ah! Finally, you, "personally" is at the base of it, isn't it?
Why, yes, I've posted my own opinion of Jay Denebeim's actions. What is
it with you refugees from rastb5.RomperRoom? Don't you guys have any
concept of "personal opinion?"
I posted my opinion. I'm posting from my personal account, giving my "True
Name" and personal e-mail address. I have in no way given the impression I
was speaking as a representative of my employer, or as the representative
of any private or public organization. I'm not posting on behalf of any
other individual Therefore, it should be obvious that "me, personally" is
at the base of my statement. That's why I'm posting here on rastb5. If I
wanted some moderator to be "at the base" of my statements, I would post to
rastb5.RomperRoom.
If
> you guys hate each other's guts, it isn't surprising you'd see him a
> "nasty piece of work."
I consider him a "nasty piece of work" for his denial-of-service threat.
As I would so label any individual who posts a denial-of-service threat on
the Internet, regardless of to whom the threat was addressed.
I've not found you any less likely to behave
> in "net terrorist" tactics, so I find your hypocrisy... telling.
If you can't find any difference in my activities here and on other
newsgroups and in Jay Denebeim's denial-of-service threat, then I find your
ignorance...telling. (And that's my personal opinion. And I'm not going
to present any "proof" of it.)
>
> Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
> Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
> I'm not getting in the middle of that. Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
> heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
Not surprising. I'm sure boredom sets in quite regularly for somebody who
has such difficulty determining when a strong personal opinion is being
expressed in a newsgroup post, and who doesn't realize the significance of
a denial-of-service threat made against somebody on the Internet.
And any "cat fights" Jay attempts to engage me in will be all one-sided and
he will win by default. I won't respond to any post he makes. I don't
respond to net terrorists.
>
> I'm just glad you finally admitted it was a "personal" problem;
> perhaps there's hope for you yet.
Again, what is it with you rastb5.RomperRoom refugees? Why do you equate
"personal opinion" with "personal problem."
Theron Fuller
David Stinson
In article <33A497...@moon.jic.com>, tfu...@moon.jic.com wrote:
: I encourage everyone to "make up their own definitons." Who makes up
: your "definitions" for you? I define threatening to send me an e-mail
: message with a gigabyte attachment when he know such an action may crash
: my ISP's mail service as a "threatening a denial-of-service attack." I
: define anyone who threatens me with a denial-of-service attact as "an
: Internet terrorist." These are my own personal definitions, nothing
: more and nothing less.
You might note in your little discourse that you specifically ASKED for
that information. He told you how large it was and that if you REALLY
wanted it, you should warn your ISP about that large a file coming in. He
DID NOT threaten you with a denial of service attack. You however have used
that action, WARNING YOU ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE FILE YOU SPECIFICALLY
REQUESTED, as a threat all along the way.
Your definitions are rather arbitrary and opinionated, it would seem.
: > : Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
: > : and a net terrorist for this particular action.
: >
: > WAINS? You've never liked Jay, and you've always tried to put the
: > nastiest spin on just about anything that Jay has said or done. Perhaps
: > you're right and it was a DoS. I'm not going to buy it simply because
: > you've cried "wolf" once too often.
:
: You pays your money and you takes your choice. I gave you my opinion
: for free, and it's worth every penny you paid for it. And in this
: instance, I tried to give the situation the nastiest spin I could convey
: in an newsgroup post. I have absolutely no use for anybody who
: threatens to crash Internet Services.
And I have even less for someone who knew exactly why he was warned about
the size of the file, and did his own little spin about it being an attack.
He DID NOT send the file, and he specifically warned you thast if you
really wanted the file you should warn your ISP to set aside the space for
the file. No more, no less. Funny how you interpret that as an "attack".
:
: (Stuff Deleted)
:
:
: > : I do recall predicting that Jay Denebeim would act more as a
: > : censor than as a moderator, and that he would not observe his own
: > : charter. I was bang on in that prediction.
: >
: > And your evidence for this is. . .?
:
: I ain't gonna play "prove it" games with you. Those who have been
: reading or participating on rastb5.RomperRoom for any length of time can
: form their own opinions of the degree of truth in my observation. If you
: want to "prove" my opinion wrong, have at it. Again, this is rastb5 and
: there are no restrictions on your doing so.
Well, given that I see the raw feed and the moderators repsonses to the
posters who have their post rejected, they're doing a pretty good job.
you however are working from a lot less information, and if truth be told,
don't seem to be real interested in the actual facts.
:
: Gosh, I don't know how many times I have to try to explain my posts.
: I'm posting my version of "how things should be." Anyone who cares to
: can make their own conclusions of what has happened recently on the
: rastb5 and rastb5.RomperRoom news groups, and why things have or haven't
: changed. Same with my observations of what's going to happen in the
: future. Make your own observations and either agree with me or rub my
: nose into it if my predicions are wrong.
Actually, anyone looking would have noticed that the moderation FAQ was
lengthened and extra steps shown for the proper submission and handling of
complaints and questions.
--
David A. Stinson Web Page: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html
Product Integration Work E-Mail : da...@zprocom.com
Engineer Personal E-Mail : dast...@zaol.com
Procom Technology
**** OPINIONS ABOVE ARE THOSE OF D.STINSON, AND NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF
PROCOM TECHNOLOGY **** Remove 'Z' from addresses to send E-mail.
** No electrons were harmed during the production of this message **
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: Ah. The twins unite to face a common foe,
^^^
You misspelled "schmuck".
HTH
--
TheWitch (oh dear, you don't think I quoted out of context, do you?)
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: Diane, I see you've paid excellent attention . . .
Better than you, sport. :)
Hugs & kisses,
--
TheWitch
"You run the grave risk of being turned
David Stinson
In article <33A41C...@moon.jic.com>, tfu...@moon.jic.com wrote:
: 1. Theron systematically documents that posts he has sent to
: rastb5.RomperRoom are not disappearing due to either newsreader problems
: or ISP problems on my end, which verifies the experience of problems
: other would-be posters had reported. Concludes that there is either a
: problem with the moderation software, or that Day Denebeim is deleting
: posts form the moderation queue. Observes that rastb5.RomperRoom has no
: logs that can be used to objectively determine who is doing what to
: messages on rastb5.Romper.
Funny how Theron never e-mailed at the same time as when he posted, as
suggested by several persons at the time, so that his post would be seen at
the same time as submitted.
But then it would have been obvious that Theron was not actually posting.
: 2. Jay Denebeim posts that he indeed has logs in the form of backup
: file of more than a gigabyte, and since I have requested proof, he will
: send me the file as an e-mail attachment. He observes that, of course,
: this is likely to crash my ISP's system, but since I have requested the
: file, he will send it. He CCs my ISP's system administrator and notes
: that I have requested a very large e-mail attachment that will overload
: the e-mail system and very likely crash the whole e-mail system.
Which part of that did you not understand? YOU REQUESTED THE DATA. He
warned you of the size of the file, rather than sending it directly. As he
should.
: 3. Jay Denebeim threatened a deliberate action which he knows will
: overload my ISP's e-mail system, and cause either a major slowdown or a
: systems crash. This is a threat to launch a denial-of-service attack.
: Jay Denebeim engaged in a threat of net terrorism.
That. folks, is what's called a SPIN. Applying a little interpretation of a
reasonable action taken by the other person in warning him AND HIS ISP of
the direct consequences of SPECIFICALLY WHAT HE WAS ASKED FOR.
Theron also seems to not be able to understand the concept of multiple
moderators. I see the responses from all of them. The majority of rejected
posts are for Story Ideas, frankly. And they are judged by the criteria of
the charter AS IS PROPER FOR A MODERATED GROUP.
thew...@cybernothing.org
Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
:
:
: kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
: <MPG.e0f4dddb...@news.netnews.att.com>...
<snippage>
: >
: > Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
: > Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
: > I'm not getting in the middle of that. Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
: > heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
:
: Not surprising. I'm sure boredom sets in quite regularly for somebody who
: has such difficulty determining when a strong personal opinion is being
: expressed in a newsgroup post, and who doesn't realize the significance of
: a denial-of-service threat made against somebody on the Internet.
But you've already stated that this alleged DoS *is* only your opinion.
So far no one, not even your ISP, seems to agree with you, hon. You may
opine that Jay is a net terrorist all you like, but at this point, it's
relatively clear that your opinion is, to put it delicately, bullshit. :)
thew...@cybernothing.org
And from our "Pot. Kettle. Black" department,
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) self-appointed fighter of hypocrisy and
officious holder of the Order of the Sour Grape, wrote:
: kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
<snip>
: >
: > Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
: > Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
: > I'm not getting in the middle of that.
:
: RFLOL! Wooeee! That's a good one! You?!?!?! Stay out of anything? Stop
: it! No way you could keep out of it, it's what you're here for! You're
: killing me here, Diane!
: No, really, you've got to be kidding?
:
: Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
: > heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
:
: One out of two ain't bad, after all, your still reading and posting at
: every chance.
And look who's panting right on the "bitch's" heels.
Theron Fuller
kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
<MPG.e0f3e79d...@news.netnews.att.com>...
> Theron Fuller whined...
> <other silliness snipped--if you want to see it, read back a little>
> <account of how big 'ol nasty Jay-the-moderator-of-*that*-NG
> threatened to send poor little 'ol misunderstood and beleaguered
> Theron Fuller the very information he requested and claims to have
> been denied>
> > This is a threat to launch a denial-of-service attack.
> > Jay Denebeim engaged in a threat of net terrorism.
> >
> >
> >
>
> *giggle*
First of all, I requested nothing from Jay Denebeim. I made a statement
that the rastb5.RomperRoom moderation system had no logs that would allow
other moderators to monitor Jay Denebeim's actions.
Jay Denebeim responded that, in response to my demand for "proof" of such
logs, he would e-mail me the backup file for rastb5.RomperRoom. He then
observed that such a large e-mail attachment would likely crash my ISP's
post office, but since I had requested it, he was going to send it. And
just to make sure his point was clear, he forwarded his statement to my
ISP's systems administrator.
I seriously doubt more than a megabyte or so of this file would have ever
gotten beyond the first system up the line, but that's not really the
point. Denebeim was clearly trying, however crudely, to make me shut up by
threatening me with a denial of service attack.
Now because of who the threat was made, you may find the incident funny.
But denial-of-service threats are a serious problem for everyone on the
Internet. And you certainly won't find things so funny if your ISP's
system crashes because some malicious idiot was honked about something. I
can remember when the first computer viruses on the Macintosh were "cute."
>
> Oh Theron Fuller (since you seem to have this thing with full names),
> thy name is known. As is the enmity between you and Jay.
My full name is Theron Keith Fuller. And I don't have anything at all
about "full names." I will try play by whatever semantic games those who
make an issue of the "True Name," however.
>
> Big deal. Welcome to Usenet, where anyone can say anything just about
> anywhere and actually come to believe their opinions *matter.* That
> is, of course, unless folks get tired of it and set up a moderated
> group (and there are a few of them out there--not just rastb5m).
Yeah, rastb5.RomperRoom has been quite a boon all around. The people who
get tired of other people saying just about anything can avoid unmoderated
newsgroups like rastb5 and have what they can post and what they can read
determined for them by moderators such as Jay Denebeim.
And folks on rastb5.RomperRoom can have it both ways. They can
occasionally leave the safety of rastb5.RomperRoom, troll, flame and attack
with the best of us here on rastb5, then scurry back to the safety of
rastb5.RomperRoom.
>
> As for having your posts deleted--how is it I occasionally *see* posts
> from you over there?
Must be from me responding to cross-posts. I don't directly post to
rastb5.RomperRoom. (Of course, I may be the victim of
tfu...@nym.alias.net busily impersonating me. Or, maybe after my recent
observations on his posting behavior, maybe even
tfu...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu <grin>).
Kinda blows your theory of personal persecution,
> doesn't it?
Shucks, I don't have any theory of personal persecution. I just gave my
opinion of what I >personally< consider to be a very crude
denial-of-service threat by Jay Denebeim. I don't consider it
"persecution." Just Internet terrorism.
(I will not give in to the temptation to make crude remarks about you
"blowing" things. I will not give in to the temptation to make crude
remarks about you 'blowing" things. I will not....)
Besides, there are several moderators, it'd have to be a
> real conspiracy. That's it, a conspiracy to silence Theron Fuller.
> Maybe you can get a movie deal out of it?
I make it very easy for the moderators of rastb5.RomperRoom. I don't post
there. My silence on rastb5.RomperRoom is self-imposed.
Theron Fuller
David Stinson
In article <01bc79ea$dbbc7340$305c...@sh1.ro.com>, "TMB"
<tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
: Davie!
:
: Mr.
: "I-can-still-moderate-you-here-by-changing-my-follow-up-to-alt.dev.null"!
: I was wondering if you were going hop the wall and get into this.
: Still a rough neighborhood, though. You'll probably be making a few header
: "adjustments" before heading back over to romper.room.
: Happy bleating, Davie.
:
Never left. As I said during the RFD, I would remain in both groups.
And I haven't alt.dev.null'ed you in a few months. And you changed it
anyway, so it would seem to have been no problem for you.
Last I looked, you were complaining about someone else moderating your
posts - and now you complain about me setting the followups on my own. It
would seem to be a double standard - you seem to want to determine how I
should post my posts.
BTW, could you get your level of argument above the 6th grade?
Jay Denebeim
In article <01bc7a2a$37f2b7c0$215c...@sh1.ro.com>,
TMB <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
>Jay Denebeim <dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us> wrote in article
><5o2gqk$4...@marvin.deepthot.cary.nc.us>...
>> David Stinson <dsti...@ix.netcomz.com> wrote:
>> >In article <01bc79a4$4e1aade0$475c...@sh1.ro.com>,
>> > "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >:3. Form my own newsgroup.
>> >:Any newsgroup I formed would be unmoderated, which would still allow
>this
>> >:behavior. It's an issue of conduct, not content.
>> >
>> >Then do so. See how popular your newsgroup is, if you could get it to
>pass in
>> >the first place.
>>
>> Hey, that sounds like a plan. Tell 'ya what Mackinsey Phillips
>> *deserves* a newsgroup, why don't you try to start up
>> rec.arts.tv.mackinsey-phillips? I'm sure it would have a large
>> following.
>
That would depend on who you are. This particular post was mostly for
David Stinson, who I hope wasn't drinking something at the time he
read it. Read news.groups a couple of months ago, and all will become
clear to you.
Jay Denebeim
In article <5o4711$a...@winter.erols.com>,
TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote:
> <chuckle> I just found out that most of my good friends made it onto
> the net.scum page.
That's quite the page isn't it? It reads like a who's who in usenet,
just about everybody who's been fighting off the barbarions and
keeping usenet useable is on it. They spelt my name wrong though.
Robert Holland
TheW...@Endor.com wrote:
>
> Robert,
Yes, Beth?
> I don't think I've ever denied that a number of people got too
> pissed off over some of the negative criticism, the trolls, etc., and
> voted for rastb5.mod because of this. And I think I was pretty vocal over
> stating that the only reason for the formation that I *didn't* see as
> legitimate was people voting for it solely to bring JMS back to USENET.
> Pretty much the reason *any* moderated group gets formed is to keep the
> signal to noise ratio at a reasonable level.
There were many reasons to vote for the moderated ng. I think it has
served my needs nicely, and I see you are happy with it, too.
Although you seem to be a bit defensive over the whole thing these
days. What gives?
> : I dunno. Anyone claiming to be honest in Usenet is instantly suspect.
>
> Why? I'm not claiming total honesty myself, but I know that I pretty much
> try to be as honest as possible. Why would that make me suspect?
Let's put it this way, Beth: We each post opinion from our own
perspective,
relying on the reader to interpret that perspective. I think it is
exceedingly
rare that reader and poster perspectives match completely. Thus,
although
you feel your posts about the moderated ng are honest, they clearly have
a spin from your own pro-moderator perspective. In other words, your
opinion may be honest, but not impartial.
> : > : I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
> : > people
> : > : and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what
> : > you
> : > : preach.
> : >
> : > <smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
> : >
> : > Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
> :
> : Actually, you can read the moderated ng to find flames in violation of
> : thecharter, from time to time. I think Gherkin chased off one or two in
> : his
> : last go-around.
>
> I've seen posts from time to time that I wondered about, however I keep in
> mind that there is an auto-moderation system in place that occasionally
> lets innappropriate posts through, as well as *very* human moderators, who
> are susceptible to mistakes.
According to Dave Stinson, the moderators intercept Gherkin posts and
help
him rewrite them to their standards. That Gherkin posts continue to
insult
people in moderated implicates those who helped him draft those
messages.
> Overall, I think that the system works, (of
> course I've never had a post rejected so I realize I'm prone to being less
> objective) and the fact that rastb5.mod is a relatively high traffic
> newsgroup tends to bear my opinion out.
Moderated works for me, too, Beth. Thanks to Jay.
--RH (we agree but from different perspectives.)
George Avalos
Robert Holland <rhol...@wco.com>
(snips)
Robert, have you gotten obsessed with your diatribes that you have to
create multiple threads with the same posts? didn't you post to
"newsgroup vampires?" and now it looks like the same thing in
"werewolves?" and did you start hound dogs too? Aren't you going to
add succubi, or mummies, or gremlins? Or at least zombies. You and
Buford are so fond of using that term, or "brain-dead," that's
probably an appropriate one for you
Aliens? Fluke Boys? Demons? must be a few more you can come up with.
Cheers,
George Avalos
Theron Fuller
David Stinson <da...@zprocom.com> wrote in article
<daves-ya02358000...@news.ni.net>...
> In article <33A497...@moon.jic.com>, tfu...@moon.jic.com wrote:
>
> : I encourage everyone to "make up their own definitons." Who makes up
> : your "definitions" for you? I define threatening to send me an e-mail
> : message with a gigabyte attachment when he know such an action may
crash
> : my ISP's mail service as a "threatening a denial-of-service attack." I
> : define anyone who threatens me with a denial-of-service attact as "an
> : Internet terrorist." These are my own personal definitions, nothing
> : more and nothing less.
>
> You might note in your little discourse that you specifically ASKED for
> that information. He told you how large it was and that if you REALLY
> wanted it, you should warn your ISP about that large a file coming in. He
> DID NOT threaten you with a denial of service attack. You however have
used
> that action, WARNING YOU ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE FILE YOU SPECIFICALLY
> REQUESTED, as a threat all along the way.
>
> Your definitions are rather arbitrary and opinionated, it would seem.
I stated that rastb5.RomperRoom moderators had no logs or any other means
of determining whether or not Jay Denebeim was unilaterally deleting
messages before they entered the moderation queue. In response, Denebeim
posted that since I had requested proof, he would send me the
rastb5.RomperRoom backup file. And he then observed that the file was over
a gigabyte in size, and would very likely crash my ISP's e-mail system.
But, since I had requested proof he was sending it to me.
When somebody tells me they're e-mailing me a file they think will crash my
ISP's e-mail system, I consider that a denial-of-service attack threat. As
I noted before, if you want to define the act as Jay Denebeim attempting to
be helpful, then do so.
>
>
>
> : > : Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of
work
> : > : and a net terrorist for this particular action.
> : >
> : > WAINS? You've never liked Jay, and you've always tried to put the
> : > nastiest spin on just about anything that Jay has said or done.
Perhaps
> : > you're right and it was a DoS. I'm not going to buy it simply
because
> : > you've cried "wolf" once too often.
> :
> : You pays your money and you takes your choice. I gave you my opinion
> : for free, and it's worth every penny you paid for it. And in this
> : instance, I tried to give the situation the nastiest spin I could
convey
> : in an newsgroup post. I have absolutely no use for anybody who
> : threatens to crash Internet Services.
>
>
> And I have even less for someone who knew exactly why he was warned about
> the size of the file, and did his own little spin about it being an
attack.
> He DID NOT send the file, and he specifically warned you thast if you
> really wanted the file you should warn your ISP to set aside the space
for
> the file. No more, no less. Funny how you interpret that as an "attack".
I don't consider it funny at all, David.
:
> : > : I do recall predicting that Jay Denebeim would act more as a
> : > : censor than as a moderator, and that he would not observe his own
> : > : charter. I was bang on in that prediction.
> : >
> : > And your evidence for this is. . .?
> :
> : I ain't gonna play "prove it" games with you. Those who have been
> : reading or participating on rastb5.RomperRoom for any length of time
can
> : form their own opinions of the degree of truth in my observation. If
you
> : want to "prove" my opinion wrong, have at it. Again, this is rastb5
and
> : there are no restrictions on your doing so.
>
> Well, given that I see the raw feed and the moderators repsonses to the
> posters who have their post rejected, they're doing a pretty good job.
Thanks for your endorsement, David. I'm sure all the moderators on
rastb5.RomperRoom appreciate your vote of confidence in them.
>
> you however are working from a lot less information, and if truth be
told,
> don't seem to be real interested in the actual facts.
I'm inviting everyone to observe the situation and form their own opinions.
Just as I have observed the situation and have formed my opinion. I
encourage you to post whatever "actual facts" you feel the need or urge to
post, David. For example, you might want to give us statistics on how many
posts Joe Straczynski has made on rastb5.RomperRoom in each of the past
several months. Post some statistics on the total number of monthly posts
for corresponding periods of 1996 and 1997. Or, just state your own
personal opinion and let it go at that. Whatever turns you on.
>
>
> :
> : Gosh, I don't know how many times I have to try to explain my posts.
> : I'm posting my version of "how things should be." Anyone who cares to
> : can make their own conclusions of what has happened recently on the
> : rastb5 and rastb5.RomperRoom news groups, and why things have or
haven't
> : changed. Same with my observations of what's going to happen in the
> : future. Make your own observations and either agree with me or rub my
> : nose into it if my predicions are wrong.
>
> Actually, anyone looking would have noticed that the moderation FAQ was
> lengthened and extra steps shown for the proper submission and handling
of
> complaints and questions.
I have no idea of what you're referring to, David.
Regards,
Theron Fuller
TMB
schmuck a common foe? Fingers engaging before brain again?
TMB
--
Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
webmaster@localhost
abuse@localhost
postmaster@localhost
Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote in article
<5o4ht4$g...@winter.erols.com>...
> TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
> : Ah. The twins unite to face a common foe,
> ^^^
>
> You misspelled "schmuck".
>
> HTH
>
> --
> TheWitch (oh dear, you don't think I quoted out of context, do you?)
>
TMB
> And from our "Pot. Kettle. Black" department,
>
> TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) self-appointed fighter of hypocrisy and
> officious holder of the Order of the Sour Grape, wrote:
>
>
> : kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
>
> <snip>
> : >
> : > Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
> : > Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
> : > I'm not getting in the middle of that.
> :
> : RFLOL! Wooeee! That's a good one! You?!?!?! Stay out of anything?
Stop
> : it! No way you could keep out of it, it's what you're here for!
You're
> : killing me here, Diane!
> : No, really, you've got to be kidding?
> :
> : Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
> : > heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
> :
> : One out of two ain't bad, after all, your still reading and posting at
> : every chance.
>
> And look who's panting right on the "bitch's" heels.
>
> --
be you, the witch? Even rhymes.
We are learning far more about you then we need.
TMB
jdn
:Actually, Jay started this thread. Wonder why he didn't stick around.
Because he was probably bored and just wanted to see how many posts he
could get in response and how long the thread would continue, if I had a
guess.
Newsgroups be fertile ground for sociological studies, eh?
thew...@cybernothing.org
Jay Denebeim (dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us) wrote:
: In article <5o4711$a...@winter.erols.com>,
: TheW...@Endor.com <thew...@cybernothing.org> wrote:
:
: > <chuckle> I just found out that most of my good friends made it onto
: > the net.scum page.
:
: That's quite the page isn't it? It reads like a who's who in usenet,
: just about everybody who's been fighting off the barbarions and
: keeping usenet useable is on it. They spelt my name wrong though.
Yeah, I almost missed it. And don't take this the wrong way, Jay, but I
hadn't expected to see you on it. I was *glad* that you were as it
confirms my generally good taste in friends. :)
--
TheWitch
thew...@cybernothing.org
Robert Holland (rhol...@wco.com) wrote:
: TheW...@Endor.com wrote:
: >
: > Robert,
:
: Yes, Beth?
Just wanted to say "Hi"!
:
: > I don't think I've ever denied that a number of people got too
: > pissed off over some of the negative criticism, the trolls, etc., and
: > voted for rastb5.mod because of this. And I think I was pretty vocal over
: > stating that the only reason for the formation that I *didn't* see as
: > legitimate was people voting for it solely to bring JMS back to USENET.
: > Pretty much the reason *any* moderated group gets formed is to keep the
: > signal to noise ratio at a reasonable level.
:
: There were many reasons to vote for the moderated ng. I think it has
: served my needs nicely, and I see you are happy with it, too.
:
: Although you seem to be a bit defensive over the whole thing these
: days. What gives?
I would hardly call it defensive. :) I saw the "Fake Accents" thread over
in rec.arts.tv. Stupidity pisses me off, and I reacted. Actually, I've
been enjoying the (I can't call it debate) exchange immensely.
Incidently, it's one of the reasons I've always been civil with you.
While you've posted opinions that I thought were merely trolls and/or
flamebait, they were usually capable of making me laugh. You've always
been reasonable when we've debated in the past. IOW you don't show the
stupidity that I've seen in some of the old timers and now with the
british git.
:
: > : I dunno. Anyone claiming to be honest in Usenet is instantly suspect.
: >
: > Why? I'm not claiming total honesty myself, but I know that I pretty much
: > try to be as honest as possible. Why would that make me suspect?
:
: Let's put it this way, Beth: We each post opinion from our own
: perspective,
: relying on the reader to interpret that perspective. I think it is
: exceedingly
: rare that reader and poster perspectives match completely. Thus,
: although
: you feel your posts about the moderated ng are honest, they clearly have
: a spin from your own pro-moderator perspective. In other words, your
: opinion may be honest, but not impartial.
Robert, if I knew of a moderator violation, I would be the first one
raising my voice. Now I admit that I haven't paid much attention to
either of the newsgroups until recently. I've subscribed to satai and
since that time, there hasn't been a complaint. If/when a complaint is
lodged, I'll get to see whether or not I'm truly objective.
:
: > : > : I've seen some of the moderators enter or group from this and flame
: > : > people
: > : > : and opinions. It's just my opinion that you should practice what
: > : > you
: > : > : preach.
: > : >
: > : > <smirk> Right. Which is why you crosspost lies regarding rastb5.mod.
: > : >
: > : > Bzzt. Thank you for playing.
: > :
: > : Actually, you can read the moderated ng to find flames in violation of
: > : thecharter, from time to time. I think Gherkin chased off one or two in
: > : his
: > : last go-around.
: >
: > I've seen posts from time to time that I wondered about, however I keep in
: > mind that there is an auto-moderation system in place that occasionally
: > lets innappropriate posts through, as well as *very* human moderators, who
: > are susceptible to mistakes.
:
: According to Dave Stinson, the moderators intercept Gherkin posts and
: help
: him rewrite them to their standards. That Gherkin posts continue to
: insult
: people in moderated implicates those who helped him draft those
: messages.
Exactly how many people have been insulted? Were they *personal* attacks
on individuals? Did those posts violate the charter?
The posts that I've read of Gharlane's recently are pretty damned
innocuous.
: > Overall, I think that the system works, (of
: > course I've never had a post rejected so I realize I'm prone to being less
: > objective) and the fact that rastb5.mod is a relatively high traffic
: > newsgroup tends to bear my opinion out.
:
: Moderated works for me, too, Beth. Thanks to Jay.
And all those who post to it, the other 8 moderators, etc.
: --RH (we agree but from different perspectives.)
Mellanie Rittenour
Y'know, having only recently come into unlimited internet access, and
discovered the RASTB5 and RASTB5.mod NG, it really is interesting to see
the differences between the two groups, as well as the rivalry that has
been evident between the two. I find the rivalry interesting because I
enjoy both groups immensely, but for totally different reasons. Both
groups have good points and bad points.
RASTB5.mod has very little serious criticism of JMS or the show. I
started watching the show late in 3rd season, so I had no idea there
was even the suggestion O'Hare might have been fired. I just assumed
it was part of the great 5 year arc. "There is none so blind as he
who will not see" I suppose.
Perhaps part of this lack of criticism is because the moderators want to
keep JMS posting to the NG. Somehow, though, I think that a person with
the vision to create B5 wouldn't be put off by random criticism of his
show. Regardless, at times it does tend to give you cavities, the ng's
so sweet. But at least the focus is on one thing: THE SHOW.
RASTB5 isn't about the show. Or it is, but only in the same way a framed
work of art is about the frame. What is interesting/amusing/frustrating
about RASTB5 is the interaction of the people who post to it, not
necessarily the topic itself. If people were _so_ intent on only
discussing matters about the show, these flames wouldn't be going on.
I mean, "RE: NEWSGROUP VAMPIRES" goes back so far I haven't been able to
find out who originally did what to whom, and for how many cookies...Most
of the posts have virtually nothing to do with B5.
The whole point of the moderated newsgroup _is_ to have someone out
there who is watching the content of the postings. The participants
agree to give up a certain degree of freedom in their postings to help
insure the quality of the newsgroups information. Kind of like on B5
-- Sheridan tolerated Garibaldi's presence and comments, even though
Garibaldi had been critical of Sheridan's actions, because Sheridan
believed in freedom -- but when Garibaldi's actions began to cause
problems for the entire station, taking the focus off the war effort,
then Sheridan had to step in and say, shut up or leave. (OK--I know
its a paraphrase.)
But with RASTB5, it's kind of a chaotic free for all. And who did what
to whom doesn't really matter, only that we are examining it in the
context of B5.
IMHO, I can't say either one has an edge over the other: each has good
and bad qualities. But when we start these arguments going about which
is the better newsgroup, I guess in the end it just depends on what
you're looking for.
De Castellvi Jaime M
Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
: > It really eats at you that rastb5.mod not only got created, but hasn't
: > fallen into the pits as you predicted during the RFD, doesn't it?
:
: Dont bother me a bit. This isn't a "sour grapes" observation. Even
: Stevie Wonder can see that things have changed drastically on
: rastb5.RomperRoom since the Shadow War ended. Joe Straczynski's posts
: have dropped off dramatically. And the volume of posts to the newsgroup
: is way down over where it was a year ago. After this next new episode
: airs in the U.S., and if Warner Bros. makes its "official announcement"
: about Babylon 5's renewal, watch the volume of posts drop off even more.
Say, hon... skewed perspective aside, it sure is nice to know that you
continue to peek into the .mod ng as often as you can in order to swoop in
with the dash of a harpie and snatch any tasty morsels you can catch, for
later use. Clearly the .mod ng does add some measure of valuable utility
to your glamorous and overly thrilling existence.
Perhaps you would admit now that you were a tad overhasty in opposing it
when it first came about? It seems to do a thing or two for you. I do
somewhat rejoice to see this.
: Regards,
: Theron Fuller
Cheers from NB,
Jaime
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> Jaime M. de Castellvi ^ <<
>> 3c...@qlink.queensu.ca ^ 'That is not what I meant at all. <<
>> http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjmd ^ That is not it, at all.' (T.S.E.) <<
>>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\^//////////////////////////////////////<<
>> 'When my uncle saw the note, he tugged out the flag of his <<
>> handkerchief and blew such a hubbub of trumpets that the plates on <<
>> the dresser shook. "It's the same every year," he said. And then he <<
>> looked at me. "But this year it's different..." ' (D.T.) <<
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
kivasmama
TMB penned...
> Ah. The twins unite to face a common foe, though the whole time claiming
> how boring and non-humorous. But it does give them tag team oportunities,
> perfect to play off each other. How sweet.
>
>
Firstly, not twins (we haven't actually met face-to-face, and I'm sure
any decent mother would at least require that of twins), but thanks
for placing me in the same category as The Witch. I really appreciate
it (preen).
As for boring and non-humorous--I think you misunderstand, we find the
whole thing awfully entertaining--it is *your posts* we find boring
and non-humorous.
As for sweet--interesting term, but again, I thank you for it. Nice
to know my femininity isn't in question.
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
Theron Fuller penned...
>
> kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
> <MPG.e0f4dddb...@news.netnews.att.com>...
> > Theron Fuller penned...
> > > Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
> > > and a net terrorist for this particular action.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ah! Finally, you, "personally" is at the base of it, isn't it?
>
> Why, yes, I've posted my own opinion of Jay Denebeim's actions. What is
> it with you refugees from rastb5.RomperRoom? Don't you guys have any
> concept of "personal opinion?"
Refugees? I started here first and moved up. And of course we do, we
are just able to tell the difference between "opinion" and
"accusation." We have also learned to "move on." Perhaps you should
spend more time reading your dictionary and less time on UseNet.
> I posted my opinion. I'm posting from my personal account, giving my "True
> Name" and personal e-mail address. I have in no way given the impression I
> was speaking as a representative of my employer, or as the representative
> of any private or public organization. I'm not posting on behalf of any
> other individual Therefore, it should be obvious that "me, personally" is
> at the base of my statement. That's why I'm posting here on rastb5. If I
> wanted some moderator to be "at the base" of my statements, I would post to
> rastb5.RomperRoom.
You don't get it, do you? Just 'cause you can't or won't forge a
header (I don't do it either) doesn't make you righteous. Neither
does not pretending to represent someone else (like anyone here would
believe that anyway). "Personal" means that *you've* got a beef
against Jay. You present it as if Jay is some net demon that the
entire universe should be aware of, shun, and attempt to exorcise,
when in fact, you, Theron Fuller, individual, have a problem with Jay
Denebeim, individual. Perhaps the rest of us don't even give an ounce
of chicken shit about your little problems. Taking a personal
vendetta to the ng and attempting to win support for "your position"
in some kind of "righteous" cause is blowing a personal problem into a
public problem.
> If
> > you guys hate each other's guts, it isn't surprising you'd see him a
> > "nasty piece of work."
>
> I consider him a "nasty piece of work" for his denial-of-service threat.
> As I would so label any individual who posts a denial-of-service threat on
> the Internet, regardless of to whom the threat was addressed.
Let's get this straight. You interpreted one--ONE thing in this
matter as being a threat. An interpretation which doesn't appear to
have been shared by your ISP. This makes Jay a nasty person in
general? Hm, you have a distorted sense of reality--especially given
your occasional, um, slip ups. My observation stands: you've decided
Jay is a big meany and he could send you flowers and you'd find
something wrong with them. I suggest you have such an internalized
bogeyman caricature of him in your mind by now that you can't even see
the real person--or at least that which he presents online.
>
> I've not found you any less likely to behave
> > in "net terrorist" tactics, so I find your hypocrisy... telling.
>
> If you can't find any difference in my activities here and on other
> newsgroups and in Jay Denebeim's denial-of-service threat, then I find your
> ignorance...telling. (And that's my personal opinion. And I'm not going
> to present any "proof" of it.)
I don't particular trust your "proofs" anyway. I've watched you over
the years, your attitudes speak for themselves. To quote "Kitty" from
another ng, "Do you need a ladder or does your high horse come with a
lift?" Get over yourself, I'm not impressed by your hot air.
> >
> > Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
> > Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
> > I'm not getting in the middle of that. Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
> > heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
>
> Not surprising. I'm sure boredom sets in quite regularly for somebody who
> has such difficulty determining when a strong personal opinion is being
> expressed in a newsgroup post, and who doesn't realize the significance of
> a denial-of-service threat made against somebody on the Internet.
Why Theron, you obviously take yourself *way* too seriously. More
seriously than I do, at any rate. The fact that I find you a petty
blowhard with illusions of grandeur doesn't by any means indicate an
inability to recognize "strong personal opinions."
>
> And any "cat fights" Jay attempts to engage me in will be all one-sided and
> he will win by default. I won't respond to any post he makes. I don't
> respond to net terrorists.
Oh really? I'm glad to see you've decided to change tactics.
>
> >
> > I'm just glad you finally admitted it was a "personal" problem;
> > perhaps there's hope for you yet.
> Again, what is it with you rastb5.RomperRoom refugees? Why do you equate
> "personal opinion" with "personal problem."
>
> Theron Fuller
>
Get out more, Theron Fuller, you might actually trip over a clue.
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
TMB penned...
> Diane, I see you've paid excellent attention in the Cut to Distort 101
> class.
> Here's an "A" for efforts!
> Sorry, but you only get a "D" for the failed witty remark, but keep trying!
> TMB
> --
Well, that's Dianne--with 2 'n's -- you obviously have difficulty
reading. And you know, to be "witty" requires that one's audience
actually has the "wit" to understand the joke. You failed to
comprehend it is all. But then, I didn't actually write this for
*your* benefit.
Oh, and if you're curious, since I have no respect for your standards,
I don't really give a flying... flarn for your grades, but thanks
anyway.
<your sig snipped>
> kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
> <MPG.e0f509c7...@news.netnews.att.com>...
> > TMB penned...
> > > He did, but in all fairness, he was in a real big hurry to show off his
> > > witty troll at the time and couldn't bother with little things like
> being
> > > correct.
> >
> > I hear the "clueless police" are on their way to you right now...
> >
> > --
> > Dianne <*>
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
TMB penned...
> kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote in article
> <MPG.e0f4dddb...@news.netnews.att.com>...
> > Theron Fuller penned...
> > > Me personally, I consider Jay Denebeim to be a real nasty piece of work
> > > and a net terrorist for this particular action.
> >
> > Ah! Finally, you, "personally" is at the base of it, isn't it? If
> > you guys hate each other's guts, it isn't surprising you'd see him a
> > "nasty piece of work." I've not found you any less likely to behave
> > in "net terrorist" tactics, so I find your hypocrisy... telling.
> >
> > Don't get the wrong end of the stick, though. From what I've seen,
> > Jay seems more than able to hold his own in cat fights with you--so
> > I'm not getting in the middle of that.
>
> RFLOL! Wooeee! That's a good one! You?!?!?! Stay out of anything? Stop
> it! No way you could keep out of it, it's what you're here for! You're
> killing me here, Diane!
> No, really, you've got to be kidding?
I stay out of a lot. If you'd bothered to actually *read* what I
wrote, I said I'd stay out of Theron's and Jay's fights. That's it.
I didn't say anything about not baiting you.
And again, that's Dianne--I don't know who this "Diane" person is, but
I doubt she'll take kindly to the mistake.
> Quite frankly, I'm a bitch at
> > heart and get quickly bored with your hissing and spitting.
>
> One out of two ain't bad, after all, your still reading and posting at
> every chance.
No, I read much faster than that, I only post when I feel like it.
And I do find Theron's hissing and spitting boorish.
<your "name" and sig snipped>
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
Theron Fuller penned...
<other similar rhetoric snipped for purposes of brevity; feel free to
read back yourself..>
> Yeah, rastb5.RomperRoom has been quite a boon all around. The people who
> get tired of other people saying just about anything can avoid unmoderated
> newsgroups like rastb5 and have what they can post and what they can read
> determined for them by moderators such as Jay Denebeim.
I think he's beginning to get it..
> And folks on rastb5.RomperRoom can have it both ways. They can
> occasionally leave the safety of rastb5.RomperRoom, troll, flame and attack
> with the best of us here on rastb5, then scurry back to the safety of
> rastb5.RomperRoom.
I really do...
> > As for having your posts deleted--how is it I occasionally *see* posts
> > from you over there?
>
> Must be from me responding to cross-posts. I don't directly post to
> rastb5.RomperRoom. (Of course, I may be the victim of
> tfu...@nym.alias.net busily impersonating me. Or, maybe after my recent
> observations on his posting behavior, maybe even
> tfu...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu <grin>).
Actually, it generally has been cross-posts. I can actually figure
that kind of thing out, ya know. But they haven't been bounced 'cause
they're from you...
> Kinda blows your theory of personal persecution,
> > doesn't it?
>
> Shucks, I don't have any theory of personal persecution. I just gave my
> opinion of what I >personally< consider to be a very crude
> denial-of-service threat by Jay Denebeim. I don't consider it
> "persecution." Just Internet terrorism.
You have an amazing capacity to worry ONE thing for ages and ages and
ages. Perhaps I should go back and find one of your nasties and post
about it over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and... nah; I actually *have* a life.
> (I will not give in to the temptation to make crude remarks about you
> "blowing" things. I will not give in to the temptation to make crude
> remarks about you 'blowing" things. I will not....)
Oh pretty please; I do *so* enjoy a good innuendo and even the
occasional sophomoric attempt at a joke. And I want you to know, if I
"blow" anything, it won't be done... crudely.
> Besides, there are several moderators, it'd have to be a
> > real conspiracy. That's it, a conspiracy to silence Theron Fuller.
> > Maybe you can get a movie deal out of it?
>
> I make it very easy for the moderators of rastb5.RomperRoom. I don't post
> there. My silence on rastb5.RomperRoom is self-imposed.
>
> Theron Fuller
And we all truly appreciate your absence; truly we do. I want to
publicly thank you for your selfless behavior in this matter. Thank
you very, very much.
--
Dianne <*>
who'd start getting posts bounced on the adult^H^H^H^H^H moderated
newsgroup if Theron were a regular there...
kivasmama
Theron Fuller penned...
> But, since I had requested proof he was sending it to me.
>
>
>
Did he, in fact, send anything that crashed anything? Seems to me
that a real terrorist actually *does* things and often fails to claim
credit until after the fact.
Thus far, Theron, you've basically shown yourself to be full of hot
air. May I suggest Mylanta? It might make you feel better.
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
TMB penned...
> Well let's see, you posted the follow-up to the post, so I guess that would
> be you, the witch? Even rhymes.
> We are learning far more about you then we need.
>
>
Are you suggesting she's coming on to me?
--
Dianne <*>
Robert Holland
Glad you're still reading, George Skellington.
--RH
Robert Holland
jdn wrote:
>
>
> Newsgroups be fertile ground for sociological studies, eh?
>
> jdn
> king...@ix.netcom.com
Not really. The control group would be hard to come by.
--RH
Robert Holland
Jay Denebeim wrote:
>
> In article <33A4D642...@wco.com>,
> Robert Holland <rhol...@wco.com> wrote:
>
> >Actually, Jay started this thread. Wonder why he didn't stick around.
>
> started airing. That and I'm writing a new version of the moderation
> software.
Seems with 8 other mods you could offload some of that work...
Hmmm. What could be wrong with the old version?
Nevermind. Forget I asked!
--RH
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: > --
: Well let's see, you posted the follow-up to the post, so I guess that would
: be you, the witch? Even rhymes.
: We are learning far more about you then we need.
: TMB
Calling me a bitch is *soooo* original, sport. :) I'll just call you
denser than dirt.
Hugs & kisses,
--
TheWitch (oh yeah, you're also a proven liar)
thew...@cybernothing.org
TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
: schmuck a common foe?
I can't think of a more common schmuck than you, sport. :)
Hugs & kisses,
--
TheWitch
"You run the grave risk of being turned
thew...@cybernothing.org
Mellanie Rittenour (ni...@imperium.net) wrote:
: Y'know, having only recently come into unlimited internet access, and
: discovered the RASTB5 and RASTB5.mod NG, it really is interesting to see
: the differences between the two groups, as well as the rivalry that has
: been evident between the two. I find the rivalry interesting because I
: enjoy both groups immensely, but for totally different reasons. Both
: groups have good points and bad points.
:
: RASTB5.mod has very little serious criticism of JMS or the show.
What would you define as serious criticism?
: I
: started watching the show late in 3rd season, so I had no idea there
: was even the suggestion O'Hare might have been fired. I just assumed
: it was part of the great 5 year arc. "There is none so blind as he
: who will not see" I suppose.
:
: Perhaps part of this lack of criticism is because the moderators want to
: keep JMS posting to the NG. Somehow, though, I think that a person with
: the vision to create B5 wouldn't be put off by random criticism of his
: show.
Frankly, I don't think he is. My encounters with him when I've made
negative comments (which were let through, btw) have always been pleasant.
And I don't believe that the moderators are selectively censoring things.
It may be that the majority of posters are censoring themselves out of
fear of pissing him off or fear that the post won't get through. The only
concrete evidence that I have is my last encounter with JMS regarding
Walkabout. If you do a Deja News search with rastb5.mod as the newsgroup,
and put in dates spanning around two weeks when Walkabout was aired and
you use "beth@cais*" as the author, that ought to call up the exchange in
question. I wasn't kind, but neither was I abusive. There is a
difference. You be the judge as to whether or not what I had to say was
pablum.
: Regardless, at times it does tend to give you cavities, the ng's
: so sweet. But at least the focus is on one thing: THE SHOW.
<snip>
: The whole point of the moderated newsgroup _is_ to have someone out
: there who is watching the content of the postings. The participants
: agree to give up a certain degree of freedom in their postings to help
: insure the quality of the newsgroups information. Kind of like on B5
: -- Sheridan tolerated Garibaldi's presence and comments, even though
: Garibaldi had been critical of Sheridan's actions, because Sheridan
: believed in freedom -- but when Garibaldi's actions began to cause
: problems for the entire station, taking the focus off the war effort,
: then Sheridan had to step in and say, shut up or leave. (OK--I know
: its a paraphrase.)
:
: But with RASTB5, it's kind of a chaotic free for all. And who did what
: to whom doesn't really matter, only that we are examining it in the
: context of B5.
:
: IMHO, I can't say either one has an edge over the other: each has good
: and bad qualities. But when we start these arguments going about which
: is the better newsgroup, I guess in the end it just depends on what
: you're looking for.
I don't know that I've made a distinction as to which newsgroup is better.
I have said that a) there is negative criticism on rastb5.mod; and b)
moderators aren't censoring negative criticism unless it's directed at jms
personally, or is clearly abusive.
De Castellvi Jaime M
Theron Fuller (tfu...@moon.jic.com) wrote:
: I stated that rastb5.RomperRoom moderators had no logs or any other means
: of determining whether or not Jay Denebeim was unilaterally deleting
: messages before they entered the moderation queue. In response, Denebeim
: posted that since I had requested proof, he would send me the
: rastb5.RomperRoom backup file. And he then observed that the file was over
: a gigabyte in size, and would very likely crash my ISP's e-mail system.
: But, since I had requested proof he was sending it to me.
He also told you prior to sending anything that he was sending a copy of
the same message to your sysadmin, just in case it should cause a problem.
When your sysadmin asked him not to send it, he didn't.
Frankly, I'm more than a little mystified at the amount of plaintive
whining you are managing to squeeze out of this rather preposterous and
unimaginative spin of yours. You pestered the heck out of Jay asking for
an audit trail (your own words), and when he initially ignored you, you
gloated like a monkey with a hard-on over the fact that he "could not"
provide a trail, and then you grew even more obnoxious and insistant.
Eventually Jay decided that you had become enough of a pest and offered to
send you the trail that had so dearly and for so long desired (or had at
least so vociferously claimed to).
Suddenly, you were speechless in the Pentagon.
Of course, behind this silence, some just perceived that you were assuming
a passive stance, rather than taking the more responsible attitude of
discouraging Jay from sending you the proof you'd asked. It is as if you
were deliberately hoping he would be foolish enough to send it, and so
give you something real to attack and to squeal in righteousness about.
Jay of course knew better. He warned your sysadmin and asked him if this
would pose a problem. When the latter said it would, Jay did not send the
file (However, this whole incident did manage to bring your posting
shenanigans to your sysadmin's attention, and your account was under
sudden and intent scrutiny. You had to lay low and behave yourself for a
little while in order to keep it.). This dissapointed your hopes to
provoke Jay into a real one for you to rise an outcry about, but you
tried anyways (incidentally, the whole incident just proves how little do
you really understand Jay Denebeim). You are still trying, looking more
than slightly silly, and you have finally forced me to address you in a
slightly condescending manner. Maybe this provides you with a feeling of
validation. If so, this post will be my true scout's good action for the
day.
OK, so you were hoisted rather comically with your own petard. Everybody
got a good laugh out of it. You didn't. Sniff. Squeeze some juice out
of your prunified brain cells and devise a new scheme to rant about and to
entertain us with. Right now, your tendency to tell and retell the same
old tired routine is rapidly losing you all of your audience (except for
die-hard faithfuls like myself).
<oft repeated stuff deleted>
: > Actually, anyone looking would have noticed that the moderation FAQ was
: > lengthened and extra steps shown for the proper submission and handling
: of
: > complaints and questions.
:
: I have no idea of what you're referring to, David.
Every human being has the capacity to surprise others when least expected
and, Theron, it seems you are no exception. Forgive me for having
underestimated you in the past. It seems that, sometimes, you *do* get
David's point.
: Regards,
: Theron Fuller
Cheers from NB (did I tell you how great the seafood tastes in this
province? :)
Ben Matterson
Mellanie Rittenour wrote:
>
> Y'know, having only recently come into unlimited internet access, and
> discovered the RASTB5 and RASTB5.mod NG, it really is interesting to see
> the differences between the two groups, as well as the rivalry that has
> been evident between the two. I find the rivalry interesting because I
> enjoy both groups immensely, but for totally different reasons. Both
> groups have good points and bad points.
>
Hi Mellanie,
Welcome to the fray. Not all of us are involved in the rivalry between
the two groups. I used to be interested in that, but since I don't have
access to rastb5.mod, it was something of an abstract battle. So I quit
worrying about the what happens in rastb5.mod. I just sometimes wish
that the rastb5.mod defenders would go there and stay there, and not
come over here and react to every damn thing anyone says against
rastb5.mod.
I get the feeling that there are those here in rastb5 (and you know who
you are) who take pleasure in getting a rise out of the rastb5.mod
defenders. Not that it's very diffcult to do that, those folks rise to
the occasion every time. Of course, theres not much reluctance over here
to engage in a battle of words. It's all one big, sometimes
excruciatingly-dull, often entertaining, occasionally funny-as-hell
melee.
--
Ben
Art imitates life. TV imitates art.
David Stinson
In article <33A804...@usa.net>, ben.ma...@usa.net wrote:
:
: Welcome to the fray. Not all of us are involved in the rivalry between
: the two groups. I used to be interested in that, but since I don't have
: access to rastb5.mod, it was something of an abstract battle. So I quit
: worrying about the what happens in rastb5.mod. I just sometimes wish
: that the rastb5.mod defenders would go there and stay there, and not
: come over here and react to every damn thing anyone says against
: rastb5.mod.
:
Ben,
Guess you'll just wish I went there and stayed there again... but
It should be noted that almost without exception the defenders of rastb5mod
have been in rastb5 since not long after its creation. Personally I came on
about 4 months after the group started.
We are the guys who were around and created moderated when the level of
flaming took over rastb5 to a degree that we could no longer sit around and
just do nothing about it.
We created rastb5mod for ONE reason (and that was NOT to bring JMS back):
it was to provide a CHOICE of another place to talk where personal attack
flames (as defined SPECIFICALLY) were unacceptable as a form of posting.
Read the mod charter - it has a very clear definition of the inappropriate
behavior.
We stick around in rastb5 because as they say "we have always been here". I
said at the time of the rastb5m RFD that I wouldn't be leaving rastb5.
So it should be understood that we frankly have just as much right to be
here as those who insult us. Funny how you neglect their culpability.
Freedom of speech has the concommitant responsibility to be RESPONSIBLE in
your speech. Simple enough, but too few people seem to understand it.
--
David A. Stinson Web Page: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html
Product Integration Work E-Mail : da...@zprocom.com
Engineer Personal E-Mail : dast...@zaol.com
Procom Technology
**** OPINIONS ABOVE ARE THOSE OF D.STINSON, AND NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF
PROCOM TECHNOLOGY **** Remove 'Z' from addresses to send E-mail.
** No electrons were harmed during the production of this message **
David Stinson
In article <5o776c$h...@news.imperium.net>, Mellanie Rittenour
<ni...@imperium.net> wrote:
: RASTB5.mod has very little serious criticism of JMS or the show. I
: started watching the show late in 3rd season, so I had no idea there
: was even the suggestion O'Hare might have been fired. I just assumed
: it was part of the great 5 year arc. "There is none so blind as he
: who will not see" I suppose.
Funny, I've seen quite a bit of SERIOUS criticism of the show on rastb5m.
And I have rarely seen a critical post (and as oversight person, I see ALL
rejections) that wasn't rejected for not meeting the charter requirements.
: Perhaps part of this lack of criticism is because the moderators want to
: keep JMS posting to the NG. Somehow, though, I think that a person with
: the vision to create B5 wouldn't be put off by random criticism of his
: show. Regardless, at times it does tend to give you cavities, the ng's
: so sweet. But at least the focus is on one thing: THE SHOW.
Joe posts what Joe posts. Frankly most rejections are for Story Ideas
,which ios off charter in BOTH groups and insufficient spoiler protection
(which are usually resubmitted).
: RASTB5 isn't about the show. Or it is, but only in the same way a framed
: work of art is about the frame. What is interesting/amusing/frustrating
: about RASTB5 is the interaction of the people who post to it, not
: necessarily the topic itself. If people were _so_ intent on only
: discussing matters about the show, these flames wouldn't be going on.
: I mean, "RE: NEWSGROUP VAMPIRES" goes back so far I haven't been able to
: find out who originally did what to whom, and for how many cookies...Most
: of the posts have virtually nothing to do with B5.
That thread goes back about a month. There are threads that have gone for YEARS.
thew...@cybernothing.org
kivasmama (dhe...@polaris.attmail.com) wrote:
: TMB penned...
: > Well let's see, you posted the follow-up to the post, so I guess that would
: > be you, the witch? Even rhymes.
: > We are learning far more about you then we need.
: >
:
: Are you suggesting she's coming on to me?
I have chocolate. :)
Jay Denebeim
In article <MPG.e10873db...@news.netnews.att.com>,
kivasmama <dhe...@polaris.attmail.com> wrote:
>Theron Fuller penned...
>> I make it very easy for the moderators of rastb5.RomperRoom. I don't post
>> there. My silence on rastb5.RomperRoom is self-imposed.
>>
>> Theron Fuller
>
>And we all truly appreciate your absence; truly we do. I want to
>publicly thank you for your selfless behavior in this matter. Thank
>you very, very much.
The real reason 'ole Thererun doesn't post to the moderated group is
because it would be pointless for him to do so.
History lesson time...
Back in the summer of '95, Theron decided to turn over a new leaf. He
posted reasonably for a couple of months, no flames, no
recriminations, no sadonecrobestiality. Once it started becoming a
habit, I noticed it. I even took jms to task for being rude to him
when Theron was trying to act like a sane person for once. Yeah,
eventually he gave up, turned back to his old ways with a vengence,
and ended up making the moderated group necessary.
However, during those two months he demonstrated something. The
reason he sticks with one insult for months at a time is because he
can't come up with anything quicker. The fact is, when he tries to
post reasonably he's BOREing. Nobody replied back to any of his posts
because what he had to say was always trite, obvious, or redundant.
He was getting 0 attention, except for me and a few others encouraging
him for trying to act reasonably. The only way he can get people to
pay attention to him is by being an ass. A persistant ass, granted.
I know that I couldn't keep making the same points over and over and
over for months at a time. I mean, look at his posting style, he
chooses one topic every few months, comes up with a few points to
support that topic, and then *every* post he makes brings up the exact
same points. He only leaves that topic when some person or other
really smacks him down, like el Porco last summer or me last winter.
It almost seems like he's got obsessive-compulsive disorder. He seems
quite bright, as most people with that disorder are. However, he also
seems fixated on one thing to the exclusion of all else. After all,
this all started with one slight FOUR years ago. He's been spending
most of his energy on it ever since. That sure sounds like
obsessive-compulsive disorder to me. I suppose hounding people for
rediculously long periods of time is better than cleaning floors with
a toothbrush, but it's still not what I would call sane. But I
digress...
The point I was trying to make is that the only way Theron ever gets
noticed is when he's being an ass. He's not capable of coming up with
an original, interesting thought, so he's stuck back here on the
unmoderated group.
It's really rather pathetic when you think about it.
Jay
--
"As the most participatory form of mass speech yet developed, the
Internet deserves the highest protection from governmental intrusion."
- Judge Stewart Dalzell
kivasmama
TheW...@Endor.com penned...
> TMB (tmbr...@ro.com.uk) wrote:
>
> : > --
> : be you, the witch? Even rhymes.
> : We are learning far more about you then we need.
>
> Calling me a bitch is *soooo* original, sport. :) I'll just call you
> denser than dirt.
>
> Hugs & kisses,
>
Oh, no! I called myself a "bitch" and he was trying to through us
together as the "twins," remember?
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
Mellanie Rittenour penned...
> RASTB5.mod has very little serious criticism of JMS or the show. I
> started watching the show late in 3rd season, so I had no idea there
> was even the suggestion O'Hare might have been fired. I just assumed
> it was part of the great 5 year arc. "There is none so blind as he
> who will not see" I suppose.
>
Since the remainder of your post has been answered by others--and
better--elsewhere, I just wanted to add a few comments inspired by the
quoted paragraph.
Since you are rather new to the NGs--and to B5, as you say--you
probably don't have the whole picture, but it'll become clear over
time. As The Witch mentioned in her response to you, the moderated
group can get a bit saccharine at times due to self-editing on the
part of the posters. It is also affected by the "new crop" of posters
that each new season and each new bit of PR brings in--these new fans
and/or posters tend to be a bit.. hesitant at first. [It is also
true, btw, that personal attacks--on anyone--tend to be discouraged,
which means that if it gets too personal or abusive, the post tends to
get sent back for revision.]
One very distinct difference between the two groups is the amount of
unsubstantiated rumor and malicious gossip that fly around. The
speculation about O'Hare is not only unsubstantiated--it's *old* news;
years old, and the rumors burned out elsewhere long ago. You need to
take care to differentiate between "normal" posts and those made by
the "ogres under the billy goats' bridge" that you'll find here.
As for things like story ideas and "wild" speculation--you'll
occasionally find some here--if you're interested in that sort of
thing there is also a mailing list. I don't know how to subscribe
'cause that's not my thing, but I'm sure someone can help if you want.
--
Dianne <*>
kivasmama
kivasmama penned...
argh. brain wrong tool (today). "he was trying to throw us together
as.." sorry about the neuron-short-circuit.
--
Dianne <*>