Minbari surrender hint in Legacies
Marc Plaisant
the battle of the Line. Bare with me, I _really_ think this is it. Be
warned though, Legacies spoilers follow....
The explanation comes from two episodes: Legacies and the Soul Hunter
episode awhile back.
Remember when the soul hunter was talking to Delenn about trying to
save the Minbari leader Dukat. He described how he had to go through
(kill?) waves of Minbari souls to get to their leader Dukat's soul. The
soul hunter said something on the lines of:
"...you [the Minbari] surrounded him so I could not save his soul before he
[Dukat] died."
Granted that while the soul hunter may not have been playing with a full
deck, the important point is that the Minbari were involved in Dukat's
death. ^^^^^^^^^^^
I get the impression that the Minbari that were protecting Dukat were of the
religious caste and not the military caste. (The division between the two
castes has become increasingly apparent as we learn more of the Minbari).
In Legacies, in the scene immediately after the dead Alite's (sp?)
body was discovered missing, Sinclair, Garibaldi, and the two Minbaris -
Delenn and (the military) Neroon are arguing about what happened to the
body:
Neroon: "...To lose the vessel of his soul will bring his clan's fury upon
you."
Sinclair: "Are you threatening to make war over this?"
Neroon: "That is how the last one started, with the murder of Dukat."
^^^^^^^^^^
Garibaldi: "That was a tragic accident."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whoa. The last two lines are it. Neroon, with his tone of voice seems to
be saying that the humans were involved with Dukat's death. And
Garibaldi's response supports Neroon's accusation. When Garibaldi says
that Dukat's death was an accident it seems he's responding to the murder
acusation by saying "Hey, we're sorry we were involved in Dukat's death but
the events (whatever they were) that took Dukat's life were not our fault."
So, what has been established:
The Minbari religious caste was actually involved in Dukat's death (from
Soul Hunter).
The humans believe they were involved in Dukat's death (from Legacies).
I have a very strong impression that the religious caste is trying to lay the
blame of Dukat's death on the humans. Not wanting to explain to the
Minbari military caste that they were the one's who let him die. Hmm.....
So what does this all have to do with the Minbari surrender? Delenn made
it clear (in Legacies) that the order to surrender came from the Grey
Council (the religious caste). The Minbari as a whole seem to be honorable
people no matter what caste they come from (as Neroon implies when he is
apologizing to Sinclair, after Sinclair says "We've fought long enough,
it's time for peace." and Neroon comes back with "You sound like a
Minbari.").
Maybe, the religious caste realized they were wrong (remember Lennier's
shame for harbouring Death walker) in placing the blame of Dukat's death on
the humans and didn't expect the whole thing to go to war.
The Minbari had the clear advantage at the Line and could have easily won
the war; the military caste was fighting the battle under the assumption
the humans had murdered Dukat.
The religious caste was too ashamed to take the blame for Dukat's death, but
realized it was not right to kill off another species for a mistake they
made. The pieces seem to fit.
Marc Plaisant
m...@cis.ufl.edu
Some days are bouncers that won't let you in.
-U2
Phil G. Fraering
be going into a sort of collective denial that the religious caste
could have been wrong about a war, possibly because they
may be horrified about all the past wars they fought for them,
that could be wrong too...
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+-----------------------+Comet Shoemaker-Levy-9 Memorial .signature!
|"Standard Disclaymore" |"Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM!" - Ivanova, B5
|p...@srl03.cacs.usl.edu |"Evolution doesn't take prisoners." - Lizard
+-----------------------+"The revolution happened, but nobody noticed.
They were all home watching VR." - Hanno Protagonist
Shane L. Bell - So many books so little time
In article <MP0.94Ju...@yawl.cis.ufl.edu>, m...@yawl.cis.ufl.edu (Marc Plaisant) writes:
|>I think I have a plausible explanation of why the Minbari surrendered at
|>the battle of the Line. Bare with me, I _really_ think this is it. Be
|>warned though, Legacies spoilers follow....
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|>The Minbari religious caste was actually involved in Dukat's death (from
|>Soul Hunter).
|>The humans believe they were involved in Dukat's death (from Legacies).
|>
We don't know the religious caste was involved in Dukat's death.
All we know is that they were present at is death. Example. Many were
around at JFK's assasination where they all involved in his death?
--
,,,
(o o)
+-------------------oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------+
| Shane L. Bell email: be...@rock.enet.dec.com |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Steven Sharp
>Granted that while the soul hunter may not have been playing with a full
>deck, the important point is that the Minbari were involved in Dukat's
>death. ^^^^^^^^^^^
Try "present at". A simpler explanation would be that the human attack on
Dukat's ship did not kill him instantly, but fatally wounded him. By the
time he actually died, with the soul hunter trying to get to him, he
could be surrounded by other Minbari, including Delenn. Alternately,
these other Minbari were already on the ship with him. Note that Delenn
expressed no guilt about the incident when the soul hunter mentioned it.
I wouldn't buy it anyway. The Minbari didn't just stop, they surrendered.
Your explanation doesn't require that.
They surrendered at the Line because they suddenly recognized that they
were at a crossroad where a prophecy said that victory meant destruction
and defeat meant rebirth. Go back and watch PoD again.
Hill, Dave
> We don't know the religious caste was involved in Dukat's death.
>All we know is that they were present at is death. Example. Many were
>around at JFK's assasination where they all involved in his death?
*All* of them!
It's true -- I document it in the book I'll be finished with real soon. It
will be on the shelves at your local B. Dalton's by November, and it will
document how every single person in the Zapruder film is actually a
conspirator for one or more of the major factions behind JFK's death --
except for those who are under the domination of the orbiting mind control
laser, of course.
Geez. What kind of propaganda are they teaching kids in school these days?
Just to cite a few of the heretofore unknown sources, in October of 1963,
three -- hey, what are you Narn doing he ---
WHAMWHAMWHAMWHAMWHAM ....
*** Dave Hill (dh...@jacobs.com)
*** "Commander, I think I have to go to the bathroom."
*** "Tell me about it."
Kevin Hay
>
>In article <MP0.94Ju...@yawl.cis.ufl.edu> m...@yawl.cis.ufl.edu (Marc Plaisant) writes:
>
>>Granted that while the soul hunter may not have been playing with a full
>>deck, the important point is that the Minbari were involved in Dukat's
>>death. ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Try "present at". A simpler explanation would be that the human attack on
>Dukat's ship did not kill him instantly, but fatally wounded him. By the
>time he actually died, with the soul hunter trying to get to him, he
>could be surrounded by other Minbari, including Delenn. Alternately,
>these other Minbari were already on the ship with him. Note that Delenn
>expressed no guilt about the incident when the soul hunter mentioned it.
>
When watching the Minbari cruiser approached in Legacies, a thought slamed
into my mind on how the Minbari war got started. I had initialy thought, from
the Soul Hunter episode, that the Soul Hunter had tried to get Dukat's soul on
Minbar itself. But JMS had mentioned that the war started when the Earth
attacked a Minbari ship with the Minbari leader on it. I have a speculation
on what really happend (NOT A STORY IDEA, ONLY A SPECULATION ON
EXISTING PLOT THREADS): Dukat was the Minbari leader, a warrior, who was
dying on Minbar. The soul hunter sensed this and went after mister soul.
The Minbari succeded in stopping him from getting the soul when he died.
Then the warrior caste sent his body on tour in a Minbari cruiser. Somewhere
along the tour they happen upon an EA cruiser. The EA ship sees this BIG
alien ship coming toward them with their gun ports open, as in the custom
for the Minbari, and decides it is an attack and open fires destroying the ship
and Dukat's body, a VERY big deal to the Minbari. So starts the Holy War.
Crisper Than Thou
>
> We don't know the religious caste was involved in Dukat's death.
>All we know is that they were present at is death. Example. Many were
>around at JFK's assasination where they all involved in his death?
Yes, they were. Bad example. :)
But you're right, sorta-- we only know that the Minbari were present in great
numbers at Dukat's death. The soul hunter did not make it clear whether
those Minbari were all religious caste (seems likely, but definitely not
certain) or not. We know the Grey Council was there, at least, but we can't
say for sure that both clans were not present, nor can we make any assumptions
about who was involved in his actual death.
--The Elder Dan
--
If you don't stop whistling "Born Free" I swear that I'll piss on you.