CHRYSALIS... SEEN IN UK... Spoilers... I thought the scene where <cu
Benji Kelly
Saturday October 08 1994 19:09, Stephen Moore wrote to All about CHRYSALIS...
SEEN IN UK... Spoilers... I thought the scene where <cu:
SPOILER's
TREK.UK... leaving it are you :)
SM> Perhaps the Vorlons are an evolved stage of the Minbari... And
SM> *that* is what Delenn will /eventually/ become! We do not, after
SM> all, know what Kosh looks like, but we have seen his(?) art...
We see delenn in Babylon Squared so she doesn't turn into a Vorlon.
SM> 2. The Shadows... /Now/ I see where they got the name :) There's not
SM> that much to them, is there? Or is it one of those cloaking suits?
SM> Morden was his affable self, but perhaps not *quite* as light as
SM> before!
The shadow's... they were not actually called that were they?
SM> 4. Delenn's transformation... What can I say? The triluminary *is* of
SM> real use, and isn't just a hood ornament ;) But *what* will come
SM> out of that shell?
?
SM> 5. Garbaldi. *Doesn't* save the day... But he tried, and at what cost?
Well he doesn't die :)
SM> 6. Well done JMS on getting just about everyone in :) I *loved* the
SM> scene in C in C where they were watching ISN!
:)
Bye,
|) _.
|)en)|
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| ind3x.dircon.co.uk in Nottingham, England /_ _|_ |
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gh...@wam.umd.edu
Benji Kelly <Benji...@p15.f203.n2503.z1.fidonet.org> wrote:
>Hello Stephen,
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>Saturday October 08 1994 19:09, Stephen Moore wrote to All about CHRYSALIS...
>SEEN IN UK... Spoilers... I thought the scene where <cu:
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> SM> real use, and isn't just a hood ornament ;) But *what* will come
> SM> out of that shell?
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not just a hood ornament?? Didn't you notice it
from "And The Sky FUll of Stars" when it was used on Sinclair?
1) for 'scanning' Sinclair (what else can we call it?) ?
2) in teh Speaker's staf when he 'shot' Sinclair ?
--
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Simon Austin
> From: Benji...@p15.f203.n2503.z1.fidonet.org (Benji Kelly)
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> SM> Perhaps the Vorlons are an evolved stage of the Minbari... And
> SM> *that* is what Delenn will /eventually/ become! We do not, after
> SM> all, know what Kosh looks like, but we have seen his(?) art...
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> >We see delenn in Babylon Squared so she doesn't turn into a Vorlon.
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> seen via telepathic scan, admittedly) in Chrysalis looks no different from
> Delenn's hand as we see it in B2. The transformed Delenn doesn't need an
> encounter suit, but we can't be sure that Kosh does either - the suit could
> well be merely a disguise.
That wasn't Kosh's hand, that was Lyta's hand. As she said before scanning
Kosh, she would see things from *her* viewpoint and hence saw her own hand
where Kosh's would have been.
Do you really think jms would have shown what even a small part of a
Vorlon looks like in the pilot?
--
+-+ Simon Austin +-+ Student Awards +-+ University of East London +-+
| http://www.uel.ac.uk/pers/1068/ aus...@uel.ac.uk //|
| `Hold tight and think of Lancashire Hotpot, Gromit' - Wallace \X/ |
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David Wells
SPOILERs for Chrysalis (and Gathering)
SM> Perhaps the Vorlons are an evolved stage of the Minbari... And
SM> *that* is what Delenn will /eventually/ become! We do not, after
SM> all, know what Kosh looks like, but we have seen his(?) art...
>We see delenn in Babylon Squared so she doesn't turn into a Vorlon.
We don't _know_ that: we don't know what Vorlons look like. Kosh's hand (as
seen via telepathic scan, admittedly) in Chrysalis looks no different from
Delenn's hand as we see it in B2. The transformed Delenn doesn't need an
encounter suit, but we can't be sure that Kosh does either - the suit could
well be merely a disguise.
Dave
Simon Dainty
: From: Benji...@p15.f203.n2503.z1.fidonet.org (Benji Kelly)
: SPOILERs for Chrysalis (and Gathering)
[Minbari = Vorlons via evolution?]
: >We see delenn in Babylon Squared so she doesn't turn into a Vorlon.
: We don't _know_ that: we don't know what Vorlons look like. Kosh's hand (as
: seen via telepathic scan, admittedly) in Chrysalis looks no different from
: Delenn's hand as we see it in B2. The transformed Delenn doesn't need an
: encounter suit, but we can't be sure that Kosh does either - the suit could
: well be merely a disguise.
Yes, but in "The Gathering," Lyta says that whatever she 'sees' within
Naranek's 'mind' will be from her own perspective (I can't recall her
exact words). Ie, she will encounter what happened as if she *was* Kosh
and her body was in place of Kosh's.
SYL,
Si.
Andy Baillie
: From: Benji...@p15.f203.n2503.z1.fidonet.org (Benji Kelly)
: SPOILERs for Chrysalis (and Gathering)
: Kosh's hand (as
: seen via telepathic scan, admittedly) in Chrysalis looks no different from
: Delenn's hand as we see it in B2. The transformed Delenn doesn't need an
: encounter suit, but we can't be sure that Kosh does either - the suit could
: well be merely a disguise.
Don't forget that the doc said that the viewpoint would be her ( telepath's)
own. This means we would see a femalle hand. If I remember rightly the sleeve
of the suit was the same grey as she was wearing at the time, so seeing the
female hand is kind of irrelevant.
J. Cowell
> Dave
But the telepatic scan doesn't show Kosh's hand it shows the telepaths. Before
she scans him she explains that she will see her own body in place of Kosh's.
James.
Curious Of All Natures
Simon Austin <aus...@sunrae.uel.ac.uk> wrote:
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>That wasn't Kosh's hand, that was Lyta's hand. As she said before scanning
>Kosh, she would see things from *her* viewpoint and hence saw her own hand
>where Kosh's would have been.
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>Do you really think jms would have shown what even a small part of a
>Vorlon looks like in the pilot?
Yes, but only if people didn't think that's what they were seeing while
they were looking at it.
It would be JUST LIKE jms if when the Vorlon was revealed we realize
that we've seen *those* before elsewhere on the show - be they one of
the races or a special effect or whatever.
-Matthew Ryan,
mb...@kimbark.uchicago.edu Curious Of All Natures
================================== ====================================
If I'm dreaming, never let me wake. You'll never see the end of the road
If I'm awake, never let me sleep. When you're traveling with me.
-old chinese fellow -Crowded House
================================== ====================================
Dennis Brennan
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>:)). The argument that Delenn may be evolving into a Vorlon still works
>without it, however:
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>o We have never seen a Vorlon
>o We don't _know_ that Kosh needs the encounter suit (although he claims
> to)
I'll dispute this second assertion.
-Sinclair mentions (in _War Prayer?_) that it is puzzling that a poisoned
skin tab could harm Kosh through his encounter suit
-The possibility that the skin tab poisoned Kosh's _suit_ (which is probably
biotech in origin) has been advanced, and I'm pretty convinced.
-The Vorlons were very serious about preventing Kosh's suit from being
opened.
-If Kosh doesn't need the encounter suit, then why did he remain in it
in Medlab, thus giving Dr. Kyle and Lyta Alexander a chance to see him?
Conclusions:
Either Kosh needs the encounter suit, or one of my assertions above
is incorrect.
--
Dennis Brennan "Understanding is a three-edged sword."
dj...@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago
David Wells
SPOILERS for "Chrysalis" and "Gathering"...
> [Minbari = Vorlons via evolution?]
>: >We see delenn in Babylon Squared so she doesn't turn into a Vorlon.
>I wrote:
>: We don't _know_ that: we don't know what Vorlons look like. Kosh's hand (as
>: seen via telepathic scan, admittedly) in Chrysalis looks no different from
>: Delenn's hand as we see it in B2. The transformed Delenn doesn't need an
>: encounter suit, but we can't be sure that Kosh does either - the suit could
>: well be merely a disguise.
...but as several people pointed out (this quote is from
iz...@ancient.demon.co.uk (Simon Dainty))
> Yes, but in "The Gathering," Lyta says that whatever she 'sees' within
>Naranek's 'mind' will be from her own perspective (I can't recall her
>exact words). Ie, she will encounter what happened as if she *was* Kosh
>and her body was in place of Kosh's.
True enough: I fumbled my argument by adding this (Friday afternoon posting
:)). The argument that Delenn may be evolving into a Vorlon still works
without it, however:
o We have never seen a Vorlon
o We don't _know_ that Kosh needs the encounter suit (although he claims
to)
Therefore
o We don't know that just because Delenn has an apparently-human hand and
no encounter suit in B^2, she hasn't become a Vorlon
The bit from "The Gathering" only proves that Kosh has something
sufficiently like a hand for the doctor to locate it as the entry point of
the poison. (I wonder what Lyta would have "seen" if Kosh had been poisoned
somewhere with no analog in the human body?).
Dave
David Wells
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>> [Minbari = Vorlons via evolution?]
I wrote:
>>o We don't _know_ that Kosh needs the encounter suit (although he claims
>> to)
>I'll dispute this [second] assertion.
>-The possibility that the skin tab poisoned Kosh's _suit_ (which is probably
> biotech in origin) has been advanced, and I'm pretty convinced.
Could be. But even if it's true that Kosh's suit is biotech and can be
poisoned, this doesn't prove that he _needs_ it. It could be just
protection - like body armour. Given the attempts on Kosh, this seems a
sensible precaution.
>-The Vorlons were very serious about preventing Kosh's suit from being
> opened.
We know that the Vorlons don't want to be seen. Again, this in no way
proves that Kosh _needs_ the suit to survive.
>-If Kosh doesn't need the encounter suit, then why did he remain in it
> in Medlab, thus giving Dr. Kyle and Lyta Alexander a chance to see him?
Exactly the same reason as above. The Vorlons would rather Kosh die than
that their true form should be revealed. I'm fairly sure this is explicitly
stated in "Gathering".
>Conclusions:
>Either Kosh needs the encounter suit, or one of my assertions above
>is incorrect.
All your assertions demonstrate is that the Vorlons don't currently want
Kosh out of his suit, and are _very_ serious about this.
If Delenn is Vorlon in B^2 it's quite possible that the duck is already out
of the bag and _everyone_ now knows what Vorlons look like. No need for
suits anymore. Even we humble viewers are going to find out eventually
:-).
Dave
(Hoping that the episode after Chrysalis will be aired when I'm in
California next week)
Anthony Naggs
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> From: dj...@quads.uchicago.edu (Dennis Brennan)
> >
> >SPOILERS for "Chrysalis" and "Gathering"...
> >-The Vorlons were very serious about preventing Kosh's suit from being
> > opened.
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> We know that the Vorlons don't want to be seen. Again, this in no way
> proves that Kosh _needs_ the suit to survive.
Not exactly. Laurel, the traitor in The Gathering, told everyone else
that this was the case - she was the person who handled all official B5
communication with the Vorlons. Perhaps she was exaggerating. Also, we
haven't seen what was in the files on the Vorlons that Delenn gave to
Sinclair.
Anthony
BILL...@delphi.com
I just started watching THE GATHERING the other day and they
talked about the atmosphere in Kosh' quarters.
Methane and sulfur are in the mix.
Even if the Vorlons have a 'robust' respiratory system that can
handle the humanoids oxygen/nitrogen (or whatever they use on
B-5 - nitrogen has problems in a space environment) mix the
waste products might well be harmful to the oxygen breathers.
The regulations might require races such as the Vorlons to
wear an 'encounter suit' to keep things IN.
WEGMAN