Chrysalis - Some thoughts (spoilers)
Ralph Fuhrmann
Okay. First of all, WOW! WHAM! ARC INTENSIVE!
I can see now why there has been so much stuff coming out of the UK. I
counted FIVE major storylines in this one. All of which will be
points of major conversation.
Nit picks:
(Big one) Garibaldi, you must have a photographic memory if
you can look at a cube and know it's a static transmitter, and a powerful
on at that... Bad. I could see him guessing 'transmitter, mabey? - lets
run a check on the part number and find out what it is' That would have
worked for me.
The chrysalis. (Who would have thought it was going to be LITERAL?) But I
thought it was a bit cheezy. Nice that it has breathing holes - but it
just didn't have a natural look to me. But then again, it ain't natural...
Jupiter - Wow! what a cloud pattern change in 200 years!
Static blocking: Can't you switch channels in an emergency? Or are
channels that limited in the tachion pulse world thingy?
The good stuff:
Kosh's lines. Even I forgot about Delen while the whole Garibaldi thing
was going on. Then Kosh says 'you have forgotten something' and both be
and Sinclair remembered at the same time...
Morden's room. I *loved* it. Black and white. How appropriate for
shadows. What were those things? Incect like? They really know a thing or
two about cloaking devices.
The lighting on Delen's face when she activated her "Chrysalis stack"
(for lack of a term). She looked so intense, almost evil. That suggestion
of strands coming off and adhering to her, great stuff.
Garibaldi crawling down the hall. Nice piece of acting. Had us all
cringing in simpathetic pain. That ppg shot was great too, with the puff
of smoke as the plasma burned through his suit.
Ivonova watching TV while there's nothing to do. Advanced the storyline.
Personally reminded me of all my days monitoring alarms, with nothing
coming in. I mean you can't work all the time. Added a touch of realism
to the job.
Speculation:
You could really go off the deep end on this one. Me and my roomy were
just discussing a theory that Minbari->Chrysalis->Shadows...
But I'll stick to solid ground.
Let's see: Shadows are evil, 'dark force' of this show.
Earth firsters killed president. They have the people in high places to
pull it off - eg. ppg sans registration number - where'd that come from?
Minbari and Vorlons know each other better than Delen first let on in
"The Gathering" What that relationship is, we don't know.
The shadows have started the war against the B5 races by attacking the
outpost. Some don't know what we're fighting yet, but some suspect
(G'Kar?) and some know (Delen& Kosh?)
Next week can't come soon enough!!!
--
"The universe is run by the complex |This side is under construction.
interweaving of three elements; energy, |
matter and enlightened self-interest" |Spacial Heterogenity Influenced
G'Kar "Survivors" |Trend analyst for hire.
Andrew Arensburger
>Spoilers below, for those who havn't seen Chrysalis...
>Speculation:
>Earth firsters killed president. They have the people in high places to
>pull it off - eg. ppg sans registration number - where'd that come from?
Well, first of all, Garibaldi said that only special agents
get unnumbered PPGs, that he had checked Deveraux's name in the files,
and that Deveraux didn't show up.
This actually means very little: obviously, it *could* mean
that Deveraux was a member of a very powerful organization, one that
can manufacture unnumbered PPGs.
But it could also mean that Deveraux was a member of some
reasonably paranoid government agency, and Garibaldi isn't cleared to
get information on their agents (consider that the NSA public
information line wouldn't even give the opening hours for the NSA
visitor center, when it opened. Do you think they'd make a list of
their employees available to Joe Random Officer?).
Or it could mean that "Deveraux" wasn't his real name. Or that
the PPG was originally issued (legitimately) to some third party, from
whom Deveraux got it.
>Minbari and Vorlons know each other better than Delen first let on in
>"The Gathering" What that relationship is, we don't know.
Hmmm... could explain why the Minbari files on the Vorlons
are much more extensive than the Humans'. Not that that's saying much.
Personally, I hope that the Vorlons don't end up being the
next phase of Minbari existence (i.e., Minbari is to caterpillar as
Vorlon is to butterfly). This sort of thing has been done far too often
in SF (see Orson Scott Card's "Xenocide" for an example).
And on a lighter note, maybe I've been watching too much MST3K:
When G'Kar ran through the list of races, trying to figure out
who attacked the Narn base, "The Humans wouldn't do it, the Centauri
don't have the will, the Vorlons don't care, and none of the other
races are powerful enough..." I couldn't help exclaiming, "Hey! It must
have been _us_!"
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy Center for Automation Research
University of Maryland
are...@cfar.umd.edu
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy Center for Automation Research
University of Maryland
are...@cfar.umd.edu
Mike Batchelor
>Spoilers below, for those who havn't seen Chrysalis...
>Okay. First of all, WOW! WHAM! ARC INTENSIVE!
No kidding!
>(Big one) Garibaldi, you must have a photographic memory if
>you can look at a cube and know it's a static transmitter, and a powerful
>on at that... Bad. I could see him guessing 'transmitter, mabey? - lets
>run a check on the part number and find out what it is' That would have
>worked for me.
I thought so, too. But for the sake of the plot, he had to figure out what
was going on - that the President was going to be assasinated - and with
only an hour, some short cuts had to be taken. I can live with it.
>Earth firsters killed president. They have the people in high places to
>pull it off - eg. ppg sans registration number - where'd that come from?
I can't *believe* you missed the heavy implications in the Vice-
President-now-President's inaugural address. The new President of Earth
Force is an Earth-Firster, too! It's shockingly obvious - watch it again.
The Veep may have not been in on it personally, but the people who pulled it
off sure did know who would take office after Santiago was gone. They got
exactly what they were after.
>Next week can't come soon enough!!!
You said it!
--
M.Bat...@babylon4.clark.net
J.M.Egolf
Sarah Clark <slc...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>In article <38sa80$1...@babylon4.clark.net>,
>Mike Batchelor <M.Bat...@babylon4.clark.net> wrote:
>>In <CyBDJ...@cuug.ab.ca> fuhr...@cuug.ab.ca (Ralph Fuhrmann) writes:
>>
>>>Spoilers below, for those who havn't seen Chrysalis...
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>>was going on - that the President was going to be assasinated - and with
>>only an hour, some short cuts had to be taken. I can live with it.
An extra line would have been nice--something like, "Oh, I recognize these
-- confiscated a whole shipload of 'em once on [fill in one of G's previous
jobs].
Just as the "meet you in 20 minutes" would have been more believable as
"How soon can you meet me?"
I'm nitpicking... I'm not going to complain if my drugs aren't administered
with crystal and platinum-plated paraphernalia... I'M HOOKED!
--
J.M.Egolf
jeg...@mcs.com
"Religion is the ultimate sf (speculative "filosophy".)
Dianne Hackborn
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| Just as the "meet you in 20 minutes" would have been more believable as
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I'd assumed he just was 20 minutes away from <wherever he said to meet>...?
Did I miss something?
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dianne Kyra Hackborn
hac...@mail.cs.orst.edu Religious fanatics make
BIX: dhack / IRC: Dianne politicians look like saints.
Oregon State University
Sarah Clark
>
>>Spoilers below, for those who havn't seen Chrysalis...
>
>I thought so, too. But for the sake of the plot, he had to figure out what
>was going on - that the President was going to be assasinated - and with
>only an hour, some short cuts had to be taken. I can live with it.
>
>--
>M.Bat...@babylon4.clark.net
I was just rewatching AtSFoS today and one scene shows Garibaldi reading
"Universe Today". A prominent headline the reads something like, "Psi-Corp
Implicated in Election - The Psi Corp violated the ICE charter when
promoting the Vice-Presidential Candidate." Interesting...
--
-Sarah
Ralph Fuhrmann
: >Spoilers below, for those who havn't seen Chrysalis...
: >(Big one) Garibaldi, you must have a photographic memory if
: >you can look at a cube and know it's a static transmitter, and a powerful
: >on at that... Bad. I could see him guessing 'transmitter, mabey? - lets
: >run a check on the part number and find out what it is' That would have
: >worked for me.
: I thought so, too. But for the sake of the plot, he had to figure out what
: was going on - that the President was going to be assasinated - and with
: only an hour, some short cuts had to be taken. I can live with it.
Part of the problem is that there was *SO* much stuff to cover in 43 min.
that a few cuts had to be made. But I think the 'send them for analysis'
idea would have taken the same time overall, just would have hade a quick
listing of the parts, *then* Garibaldi could have figured out the plot,
with the plant guard conviently nearby when he figures it out...
: >Earth firsters killed president. They have the people in high places to
: >pull it off - eg. ppg sans registration number - where'd that come from?
: I can't *believe* you missed the heavy implications in the Vice-
: President-now-President's inaugural address. The new President of Earth
: Force is an Earth-Firster, too! It's shockingly obvious - watch it again.
: The Veep may have not been in on it personally, but the people who pulled it
: off sure did know who would take office after Santiago was gone. They got
: exactly what they were after.
Well, I didn't miss it, in fact it was discussed among a little circle of
us who watched the show together. We came to the conclution that one data
point implicating the VP (convienient virus) does not make for a trend
that implicates him. I'm not saying he wasn't in on it, just that we
don't have enough info to implicate him. I'm not sure he's an earth
firster either. All I know is that he has more of a isolationist attitude;
which Santiago did not have. So, earth firsters kill Santiago and hope Mr. VP
gets the job. Or help Mr. VP get the job.
Like I said originally, I was trying to cover some fairly solid
speculation. I figure there's going to be _tons_ of speculation based on
one little thread. Delen-->Vorlon NOT! Me thinks It'll be something
totally different, that we know nothing about, at the moment.
Samuel S. Paik
>An extra line would have been nice--something like, "Oh, I recognize these
>-- confiscated a whole shipload of 'em once on
Why? He's head of security, he ought to be familiar with all kinds of
gadgets that can be used to enhance or foil security.
Sam
--
Samuel Paik / Digital Equipment Corporation / 3D Device Support
pa...@avalon.eng.pko.dec.com / 508-493-4048 / I speak only for myself
I don't train. It's going to hurt anyway, so why hurt twice?
Julia Brodsky
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Chrysalis was going along good until the scene when we
finally got to see the shadows. Yes, the effects were amazing and all,
but I was dissapointed by the VERY cliche portrayal of the "bad guys".
This type of thing is WAY overused - "We have this good guy
and we're using him and he doesn't even know it (ha ha ha) -
Destiny is ours". If the shadows are merely trying to get
all the races against eachother so that they can come in and
achieve power - that doesn't really make up for a very
interesting and sophisticated make-up for the bad guys.
Despite the way the shadows physically portrayed creatures
that were alien, the interaction they had with Morton didn't make
them feel alien at all. They reminded me of the standard bad guys
created just so the good guys have something to go against.
I would have thought it would have been much better if all we
saw was Morton interacting with them - reporting to them in
some way, and leaving it a mystery as to what the Shadow's
intentions are or how they might go about achieving them.
This would have been much more mysterious and compelling.
I hope that I am wrong and that the Shadows will be much more
interesting in what their motives are and who they are - not
humanized versions of bad guys - but something really alien,
really different than us - sort of something that helps confirm
why they are alien, not just creatures looking to obtain power
- that's way too familiar. These guys aren't human - what they
do and why should wind up surprizing us, not just having us
say- "Yeah yeah - we've seen this same portrayal of bad
guys a million times."
IMHO I would say this scene seems to violate the manifesto.
Otherwise I really like the show, have watched all the episodes, and
really hope it doesn't fall prey to cliche devices. Thats what will
help continue to make this show intriguing and a real winner.
(jbrodsky)
Arnold Chu
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: This type of thing is WAY overused - "We have this good guy
: and we're using him and he doesn't even know it (ha ha ha) -
: Destiny is ours". If the shadows are merely trying to get
: all the races against eachother so that they can come in and
: achieve power - that doesn't really make up for a very
: interesting and sophisticated make-up for the bad guys.
: Despite the way the shadows physically portrayed creatures
: that were alien, the interaction they had with Morton didn't make
: them feel alien at all. They reminded me of the standard bad guys
: created just so the good guys have something to go against.
Hmmmm. You must have gotten more out of this episode than I did.
I STILL don't know what the Shadows really wants. So far, they
have maneuvered to gain inflences without revealing what favor
they want from Londo in the future. So many possibilities still
exist.
BTW, I really wouldn't call Londo or Morden a 'good guy'. When
Londo accepted the help, he KNEW he was 'bargaining with the devil.'
Regards,
A. Chu
-------------------------
All opinions are my own. No one else, including my employer is responsible
for them in any way.
BILL...@delphi.com
Julia Brodsky -
First
we
put
in
the
CHRYSALIS
spoiler
protection
(although
most
folks
have
probably
seen
it
already)
WELL -
The REASON some stuff is 'stock' is that the technique WORKS.
No matter what you are planning - if you can get your enemies to
fight amongst themselves - kill each other - destroy the trust
that would improve the alliance even when they realize that they
need to combine their forces -
stuff like that
MAKES SENSE.
It will (normally) make them easier to pick off after they
exhaust themselves battling each other.
(The downside is the 'live fire exercises' and technological
improvement spawned by the war MIGHT make them tougher - but
it is a risk you take).
WEGMAN
James Dusek
Arensburger) wrote:
> In <CyBDJ...@cuug.ab.ca> fuhr...@cuug.ab.ca (Ralph Fuhrmann) writes:
>
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> >Speculation:
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> >Earth firsters killed president. They have the people in high places to
> >pull it off - eg. ppg sans registration number - where'd that come from?
> Well, first of all, Garibaldi said that only special agents
> get unnumbered PPGs, that he had checked Deveraux's name in the files,
> and that Deveraux didn't show up.
> Or it could mean that "Deveraux" wasn't his real name. Or that
> the PPG was originally issued (legitimately) to some third party, from
> whom Deveraux got it.
Or some agent did discover the plot, and Deveraux killed him and took his
PPG. I still am convinced that the V.P. was in on the plot. His stance was
360 from the prez.
> Personally, I hope that the Vorlons don't end up being the
> next phase of Minbari existence (i.e., Minbari is to caterpillar as
> Vorlon is to butterfly). This sort of thing has been done far too often
Me too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| James Dusek | If the Goverment prints the money, |
| Motorola Inc | why is it always broke? |
| du...@cadsun.corp.mot.com | |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark O. Wilson
|In article <38q9nr$e...@mimsy.cs.umd.edu>, are...@cfar.umd.edu (Andrew
|Arensburger) wrote:
|> In <CyBDJ...@cuug.ab.ca> fuhr...@cuug.ab.ca (Ralph Fuhrmann) writes:
|>
|> >Spoilers below, for those who havn't seen Chrysalis...
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|> >Earth firsters killed president. They have the people in high places to
|> >pull it off - eg. ppg sans registration number - where'd that come from?
|> Well, first of all, Garibaldi said that only special agents
|> get unnumbered PPGs, that he had checked Deveraux's name in the files,
|> and that Deveraux didn't show up.
|> Or it could mean that "Deveraux" wasn't his real name. Or that
|> the PPG was originally issued (legitimately) to some third party, from
|> whom Deveraux got it.
| Or some agent did discover the plot, and Deveraux killed him and took his
|PPG. I still am convinced that the V.P. was in on the plot. His stance was
|360 from the prez.
You mean it was 180 degrees. 360 degrees means you are going in the same
direction.
--
Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because your mob calls itself a government.
It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money.
Wilson's Theory of Relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related.
Mark.O...@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
Paul Robert Bartel
Given the fact that Psi Corp has been implicated in the VPs
election (And the Sky Full of Stars - check the news headlines),
I am pretty sure they helped with the assassination. Of course,
with Psi Corp around, the VP may not even consciously be part of
any plot - the virus could have been a Psi Corp "suggestion" of
illness. The Earth Firsters are probably involved, but I think
Psi Corp is the driving force (can't wait for Walter Koenig to be
back on!)
>
>Like I said originally, I was trying to cover some fairly solid
>speculation. I figure there's going to be _tons_ of speculation based on
>one little thread. Delen-->Vorlon NOT! Me thinks It'll be something
>totally different, that we know nothing about, at the moment.
>
Watch PoD and see what you think Delenn might be becomming. The
info on the Battle of the Line is most interesting.....
Paul
Dixon Kenner
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: Or some agent did discover the plot, and Deveraux killed him and took his
: PPG. I still am convinced that the V.P. was in on the plot. His stance was
: 360 from the prez.
If the VP is 360 degrees from the President, his stance will be the
same. You mean 180 degrees out I presume.
That aside, one interesting thing, though probably unconnected, is
a follow through on the Earth-First / Shadow thread. Some have
speculated on a connection between the two groups. I note in a
prior episode, the Shadow ships decloaked before attacking.
About the same time we saw an episode where the "Earth First?"
terrorists were caugth using individual cloaking devices. WHile
they were stated to be from a secret military r&d lab, you could
wonder who's r&d lab...
Ben Andrew Fulton
: About the same time we saw an episode where the "Earth First?"
: terrorists were caugth using individual cloaking devices. WHile
Aha! Someone finally posted this in a manner that lets me make a pet
peeve correction. "Earth First" is an extreme environmentalist group from
the present day. "Homeguard" is the protectivist organization from
Babylon-5 responsible for anti-alien mischief. They are not the same thing,
and I'm surprised nobody else has been correcting this.
ben fulton
jrd...@indyunix.iupui.edu
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: Chrysalis was going along good until the scene when we
: finally got to see the shadows. Yes, the effects were amazing and all,
: but I was dissapointed by the VERY cliche portrayal of the "bad guys".
Morden is perhaps the least cliched "bad guy" I've ever seen. I'm
continually impressed by both the character and the actor.
: This type of thing is WAY overused - "We have this good guy
: and we're using him and he doesn't even know it (ha ha ha) -
: Destiny is ours". If the shadows are merely trying to get
: all the races against eachother so that they can come in and
: achieve power - that doesn't really make up for a very
: interesting and sophisticated make-up for the bad guys.
First, Londo knows. He doesn't know the details, but he knows he's in
over his head.
Where did you get the idea they were trying to get the races against
each other? That may very well be a part of their larger plan, but I
certainly saw nothing in Chrysalis to indicate this was their sole
goal.
:
: Despite the way the shadows physically portrayed creatures
: that were alien, the interaction they had with Morton didn't make
: them feel alien at all. They reminded me of the standard bad guys
: created just so the good guys have something to go against.
I only wish the Shadows were standard for bad guys. I'd enjoy TV a
helluva lot more if such interesting antagonists were around.
:
: I would have thought it would have been much better if all we
: saw was Morton interacting with them - reporting to them in
: some way, and leaving it a mystery as to what the Shadow's
: intentions are or how they might go about achieving them.
: This would have been much more mysterious and compelling.
Dunno about you, but I'm far from certain what their intentions are,
and how they're going to achieve their goals. I suspect we have more
than a few surprises left.
:
: I hope that I am wrong and that the Shadows will be much more
: interesting in what their motives are and who they are - not
: humanized versions of bad guys - but something really alien,
: really different than us - sort of something that helps confirm
: why they are alien, not just creatures looking to obtain power
: - that's way too familiar. These guys aren't human - what they
: do and why should wind up surprizing us, not just having us
: say- "Yeah yeah - we've seen this same portrayal of bad
: guys a million times."
:
: IMHO I would say this scene seems to violate the manifesto.
:
: Otherwise I really like the show, have watched all the episodes, and
: really hope it doesn't fall prey to cliche devices. Thats what will
: help continue to make this show intriguing and a real winner.
I agree with your desire to see originality, but I disagree that
there's been any hint given to indicate that we won't. We're in for
one helluva ride.
--
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
John Daily jrd...@indyunix.iupui.edu
"My shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance."
Tom Krajna
> Aha! Someone finally posted this in a manner that lets me make a pet
>peeve correction. "Earth First" is an extreme environmentalist group from
>the present day. "Homeguard" is the protectivist organization from
>Babylon-5 responsible for anti-alien mischief. They are not the same thing,
>and I'm surprised nobody else has been correcting this.
It's mass wishful thinking. It would be a very cool pun if the B5-era folks
who want to be protectionist about the Earth as a political entity had the
same name as the present-era group that has been protectionist about the
Earth as an ecological entity. That's why it never bothered me, FWIW.
--Tom K.