Londo's chances for redemption (long)
nathank
"Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
three chances left:
1)He must save the eye that does not see.
2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
(thanks to the Lurker's Guide; I looked there because I wanted to get
the wording right.)
The first one may confuse me the most. Obviously, "the eye that does
not see" seems to refer to G'Kar, but what event in Londo's life does it
have reference to, and did he miss his chance on this or not? JMS seems
to have hinted that this referred to Londo allowing Emperor Cartagia to
put G'Kar's eye out, but that explanation never sat right with me. Why
is this singled out from the rest of G'Kar's torture, such as when he
was whipped until he was forced to scream (dishonorable and humiliating
for any Narn)? Would it really have been "all right" if Londo had saved
G'Kar's eye, but still allowed the rest of his torture?
Other explanations are that this prophecy refers to G'Kar's artificial
eye somehow (he doesn't have it when he and Londo kill each other in
"War Without End") or to G'Kar himself (G'Kar must be alive at the end
to kill Londo). I think the last may make the most sense. Any
thoughts?
As for the second, there seem to be three candidates for "the one who is
already dead": Morden, Sheridan, and Lord Refa. Morden was listed as
dead on that ship that went to Z'ha'dum and could be seen as having
given up his life to the service of the Shadows. When Londo killed him,
Morden vowed that the Shadow's allies would make him pay. As it turned
out in season 5, the Drakh were responsible for turning the Alliance
against Centauri Prime, devastating the planet, and giving Londo the
keeper. If Morden was the one "already dead," Londo failed at this
chance.
Sheridan is another likely candidate; he has been called "the One" and
died on Z'ha'dum. In this case the prophecy would refer to the scene in
"War Without End" in which Londo puts the keeper to sleep so that he can
release Sheridan and Delenn from his captivity and give Centauri Prime a
chance to recover. In this case, Londo succeeded.
I don't think Lord Refa is a popular candidate for this prophecy any
more, but he could be considered "already dead" in that he was
half-poisoned by Londo. Londo's devastation by Adira's death caused him
to have Refa's death arranged and also made him more disposed to
Morden's influence.
I'm most convinced about the third one. From the very beginning of
Babylon 5, Londo's fear of the death he saw in his dream-- being
strangled by G'Kar-- was a major thread. It dominated his actions, in
many ways-- it was the reason he asked for Lady Morella's prophecy. As
it turned out, he had to surrender himself to this death in order to
save Sheridan and Delenn and end the keeper's control over his actions.
I'm fairly sure this is what the third chance referred to.
However, there are other theories (and I'd be interested to hear them).
They have to do with an analysis of Londo's character and whether that
death was really what he feared most.
So, there still are a lot of unanswered questions. What were the two
chances Londo had already missed? How many (if any) did Londo take, and
how many did he miss? Did they all occur in the same moment, at the end
of his life, or spread across many years?
I'd be interested to hear any opinions. Sorry this was so long. I was
in a long-winded mood.
Nathan K.
Roo
>
> Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
> "Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
> up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
> three chances left:
>
> 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
I think that this applies to G'Kar when he is captured & tortured by the
emperor. I think that G'Kar himself is "the eye that does not see".
After he loses his eye, G'Kar says something to the effect that when he
had 2 good eyes he was blind, but, now with only 1 good eye, he sees
clearly. Londo fulfills this requirement by saving G'Kar.
> 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
I think that this applies to Sheriden. Sheriden dies at Z'ha'dum. He
is the one who is already dead. Londo fulfills this requirement when he
lets Sheriden & Delenn go in the future.
> 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
> greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
His death at the hands of G'Kar had been foreshadowed, and he was
obviously afraid of this. Despite that, he allowed G'Kar to live and
accepted the role of emperor, both of which he knew would cause his
death.
Roo
Friday
of the show). The two chances that he had missed, I assume, have to do
with his deal with Morden. Probably his answer to "What do you want?"
and his part in the Shadow attacks on the Narn ouposts.
Now, Londo is told that he will be redeemed if he were to take advantage
of ONE of the opportunities. My guess is that whatever "The eye that
doesn't see" means, Londo failed there. It may be the reference to
G'Kar, but I doubt it. It doesn't fit. The eye he lost, COULD SEE. So,
if Londo could save his eye, he would save the eye that COULD SEE. And
if JMS is talking about "seeing" as in "understanding", then it still
doesn't work, because G'Kar of that time already understood the "big
picture". He knew exactly what he was doing.
On the other hand, it may be a reference to the EYE that was the jewel
that Morden gave Londo. That EYE could not see and it represented the
power of the Centauri Republic. So, maybe it was the reference to Londo
saving the Centauri Republic, which on one hand he failed to do (it was
burning in "In The Beginning"), but on the other hand he did save it
(later Vir is the free (no keeper) Emperor of the Centauri Republic).
Londo may have saved it by blowing the Shadow's island, or attempted to
save it by ordering Vir to kill him, and finally by letting G'Kar to
kill him. So, it can be interpreted in any way.
Also, if you want to stretch it even further, it may be a reference to
Vir. He is the Eye, as in he has the ability to see and understand a lot
of things, but at the time he still was young and didn't see the whole
picture. So, by "giving" him to Delenn, he himself says he wants save
Vir from what was to come. Vir remained pure and later became the first
Centauri Emperor who was not burdened by any past deeds. Like I said,
its a stretch. :)
Anyway, the second part to the prophecy was, I think, pretty clear. "The
one who is already dead" is Sheridan. And in the end Londo doesn't kill
him.
The third prophecy is conditional "If all else failes". So, it may be
that if the second one didn't fail, the path of history was changed so
that the third one never presented itself.
Just my 2 cents. :)
Friday
nathank wrote:
>
> Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
> "Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
> up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
> three chances left:
>
> 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
> 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
> 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
> greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>
Roo
nathank wrote:
>
>
> However, there are other theories (and I'd be interested to hear them).
> They have to do with an analysis of Londo's character and whether that
> death was really what he feared most.
One other thought I had was that Londo's greatest fear was the downfall
of Centauri. He always spoke of restoring its greatness.
Roo
DelennJohn
>From: nathank nat...@activenation.com
>Date: Fri, 03 September 1999 02:40 PM EDT
>Message-id: <37D01627...@activenation.com>
>
>Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
>"Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
>up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
>three chances left:
>
>1)He must save the eye that does not see.
>2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
>3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
>greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>
>(thanks to the Lurker's Guide; I looked there because I wanted to get
>the wording right.)
>
Just to begin I have to warn you that their are some spoilers to the "Shadow of
his Thoughts" story JMS wrote...WARNING!!
OKay, anywho, Londo doesn't know what "You must save the eye that does not
see." means....(as he said...)
>
>The first one may confuse me the most. Obviously, "the eye that does
>not see" seems to refer to G'Kar, but what event in Londo's life does it
>have reference to, and did he miss his chance on this or not? JMS seems
>to have hinted that this referred to Londo allowing Emperor Cartagia to
>put G'Kar's eye out, but that explanation never sat right with me. Why
>is this singled out from the rest of G'Kar's torture, such as when he
>was whipped until he was forced to scream (dishonorable and humiliating
>for any Narn)? Would it really have been "all right" if Londo had saved
>G'Kar's eye, but still allowed the rest of his torture?
Geez, I thought it mean that he should stand up to Catagia, not work "behind"
him. Yes, I know, he might of ended up dead.
>
>Other explanations are that this prophecy refers to G'Kar's artificial
>eye somehow (he doesn't have it when he and Londo kill each other in
>"War Without End") or to G'Kar himself (G'Kar must be alive at the end
>to kill Londo). I think the last may make the most sense. Any
>thoughts?
No, he must not kill the one who is already dead. Don't dishonor someone's
memory...I do believe.
>
>
>As for the second, there seem to be three candidates for "the one who is
>already dead": Morden, Sheridan, and Lord Refa. Morden was listed as
>dead on that ship that went to Z'ha'dum and could be seen as having
>given up his life to the service of the Shadows. When Londo killed him,
>Morden vowed that the Shadow's allies would make him pay. As it turned
>out in season 5, the Drakh were responsible for turning the Alliance
>against Centauri Prime, devastating the planet, and giving Londo the
>keeper. If Morden was the one "already dead," Londo failed at this
>chance.
Morden wouldn't be it. Morden died and became a Shadow puppet. Thus, he was
dead, and he MUST be ride of when the shadows leave (or before, whichever)
>
>Sheridan is another likely candidate; he has been called "the One" and
>died on Z'ha'dum. In this case the prophecy would refer to the scene in
>"War Without End" in which Londo puts the keeper to sleep so that he can
>release Sheridan and Delenn from his captivity and give Centauri Prime a
>chance to recover. In this case, Londo succeeded.
Nope, Sheridan was brought back to life, hence, he was not "already dead"
besides, the last one is the one he uses.
>
>I don't think Lord Refa is a popular candidate for this prophecy any
>more, but he could be considered "already dead" in that he was
>half-poisoned by Londo. Londo's devastation by Adira's death caused him
>to have Refa's death arranged and also made him more disposed to
>Morden's influence.
Lord Refa probably wouldn't be it, either.
>
>
>I'm most convinced about the third one. From the very beginning of
>Babylon 5, Londo's fear of the death he saw in his dream-- being
>strangled by G'Kar-- was a major thread. It dominated his actions, in
>many ways-- it was the reason he asked for Lady Morella's prophecy. As
>it turned out, he had to surrender himself to this death in order to
>save Sheridan and Delenn and end the keeper's control over his actions.
>I'm fairly sure this is what the third chance referred to.
>
Yes, I believe it is that. He knew he would be killed, but, he would die anyway
someday, and his people were more inportant to him then himself for once, which
is what I believe is what the profitice was saying. He faced death, stared him
in the eye, and said "Go ahead, I don't give anymore!" type thing.
>However, there are other theories (and I'd be interested to hear them).
>They have to do with an analysis of Londo's character and whether that
>death was really what he feared most.
>
Yes, it is. If it wasn't what he feared most, he would of been dead a while ago
(I mean, you know, after B5)
>
>So, there still are a lot of unanswered questions. What were the two
>chances Londo had already missed? How many (if any) did Londo take, and
>how many did he miss? Did they all occur in the same moment, at the end
>of his life, or spread across many years?
He missed four of them, one at a time. He knew some of them, and he didn't know
others.
Yes, JMS never liked tidy endings, as I have heard.
drago
NthDoctor (Tony Smith)
This is what I always thought they meant......
: 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
"The Eye", a very important relic to the Centauri Republic. Rather than
"save" the Eye, he allowed it to fall into the hands of unscrupulous
senators and politicians who planned to use it to gain power. Not Lord
Khiro (he was killed by the Shadows), but the Centauri Londo eventually
turned it over to at the end of the episode.
Had he not given them the Eye, he would not have become an up and coming
power in the Cemtauri government and the Shadows would have had to find
someone else.
: 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
Lord Refa. Londo had previously broken with Morden and the Shadows, but
Morden conned him into believing Refa had killed his lover (the Dancer from
the first season). Londo then turned to Morden to help him kill Refa. (He
later discovers the deception)
Refa was "already dead" because he had begun dealing with the shadows as
well.
: 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
: greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
Having the Keeper put on him, because it sets up having GKar have to kill
him so that Sheriden and Delenn can be saved.
--
NthDoctor
nta...@airmail.net
Dwiff
"The Eye", a very important relic to the Centauri Republic. Rather than
"save" the Eye, he allowed it to fall into the hands of unscrupulous
senators and politicians who planned to use it to gain power. Not Lord
Khiro (he was killed by the Shadows), but the Centauri Londo eventually
turned it over to at the end of the episode.
Had he not given them the Eye, he would not have become an up and coming
power in the Cemtauri government and the Shadows would have had to find
someone else.
>>
I agree %100 with you here, Nth doctor, but I've got a different theory on the
other two:
<< : 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead. >>
Morden. By killing Morden he's set the Drakh/Keepers after him and the
Republic. And Morden qualifies as one who is already dead twice over (icarus,
zahadum)
<< : 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
: greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him. >>
Letting G'Kar kill him. It's his greatest fear, no question--see 1st episode,
1st season.
dwf
Ryan Nock
I don't the Drakh gave a damn about Morden. They were pissed about losing
the Shadows. If Londo had saved Morden, the Drakh would still have blown up
Centauri.
Dwiff <dw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990903172931...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
Ryan Nock
it was the death of Centauri Prime. It seemed that he loved his people more
than he cared for himself. Though his actions can be taken as greedy if
seen from the perspective of anyone else in the universe of Babylon 5, when
we actually see Londo, see him say what he says, and learn why he says it,
it becomes clear that all he ever wanted was to keep Centauri safe. He
wanted to save his people.
Thus, by not surrendering to his greatest fear, he failed, and was damned
somehow. The prophetess said (paraphrased), "You have three chances to save
yourself from the fire that burns beyond. You have already wasted two."
Londo is a truely wonderful tragedy. He sacrifices himself, even sacrifices
his own redemption, so he can save his people. His name shall not be
hallowed. I'm sure the Centauri eventually learned what Londo did.
Think back to "Comes the Inquisitor." Sebastian makes it clear that the
only sacrifice that truly has meaning is the one for which you are not
revered. This might be a reflection of JMS's atheism. Christ sacrifices
himself, true, but who wouldn't sacrifice himself for the lives and souls of
millions?
I never want to have to go through what JMS put Londo through, no where near
that tragedy, but I . . . I think "proud" is far short of how I feel about
Londo's end. Well, just my thoughts.
Ryan Nock
Shaz
nathank wrote in message <37D01627...@activenation.com>...
>Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
>"Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
>up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
>three chances left:
>
>greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
Joe answered these in the other newsgroup.
1) G'kar.
2) Sheridan
3) Surrendering to G'kar who will kill him (and ensure Sheridan and Delenn's
safe departure from Centauri Prime and so save the planet)
To elucidate (not jms word for word, just comments patched together and made
as coherent as I can):
1) In 'The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari' G'kar condemns Londo because he
did nothing. He was a witness to what was happening and he did nothing about
it. If he had stood up and said something sooner, things may have been
different. Of course, Londo may well also have been dead, but if he'd
rejected Cartagia by killing him he'd have survived (which, eventually, he
did).
2) Sheridan. He IS already dead. He died on Z'ha'dum and he only has 20
years left to him. He knows the time of his death, it's already been marked
on his card. He's a man living on borrowed time.
3) Already explained.
Shaz
JMarien3
>
>nathank wrote:
>>
>> Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
>> "Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
>> up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
>> three chances left:
>>
>> 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
>
>I think that this applies to G'Kar when he is captured & tortured by the
>emperor. I think that G'Kar himself is "the eye that does not see".
>After he loses his eye, G'Kar says something to the effect that when he
>had 2 good eyes he was blind, but, now with only 1 good eye, he sees
>clearly. Londo fulfills this requirement by saving G'Kar.
>
I also think this refers to G'Kar. Not sure that it can be explain literally,
but was meant more metaphorically.
I have seen speculation that this actually refers to the Eye, the holy relic
that Londo obtained in an earlier episode (Season 2 I think) via Morden.
>> 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
>
>I think that this applies to Sheriden. Sheriden dies at Z'ha'dum. He
>is the one who is already dead. Londo fulfills this requirement when he
>lets Sheriden & Delenn go in the future.
>
Disagree. This refers to Morden, whom Londo had executed. This event came back
to haunt him in The Fall of Centauri Prime.
>> 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
>> greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>
>His death at the hands of G'Kar had been foreshadowed, and he was
>obviously afraid of this. Despite that, he allowed G'Kar to live and
>accepted the role of emperor, both of which he knew would cause his
>death.
It's either that --- or Londo's acceptance of the Keeper, whereby he
surrendered his freedom in exchange for his world ... and thereby lost all hope
of life itself. I believe the latter.
JMarien3
>
>This is what I always thought they meant......
>
>: 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
>
>"The Eye", a very important relic to the Centauri Republic. Rather than
>"save" the Eye, he allowed it to fall into the hands of unscrupulous
>senators and politicians who planned to use it to gain power. Not Lord
>Khiro (he was killed by the Shadows), but the Centauri Londo eventually
>turned it over to at the end of the episode.
>
>Had he not given them the Eye, he would not have become an up and coming
>power in the Cemtauri government and the Shadows would have had to find
>someone else.
But didn't the episode with the Eye happen BEFORE the episode with the
prophecies? Maybe I have it wrong, but that's why I don't think this prophecy
refers to the Eye relic.
>
>: 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
>
>Lord Refa. Londo had previously broken with Morden and the Shadows, but
>Morden conned him into believing Refa had killed his lover (the Dancer from
>the first season). Londo then turned to Morden to help him kill Refa. (He
>later discovers the deception)
>
>Refa was "already dead" because he had begun dealing with the shadows as
>well.
Sorry, it's clear to me that it's Morden. He was "dead" too and Londo had him
executed, which set up the Shadows' revenge as shown in The Fall of Centauri
Prime.
>
>: 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
>: greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>
>Having the Keeper put on him, because it sets up having GKar have to kill
>him so that Sheriden and Delenn can be saved.
Agree. His greater fear? Losing his freedom, i.e., accepting the Keeper.
JMarien3
1) I think the first prophecy has always been the hardest to explain. I've seen
a few discussion threads on it. I think it refers to G'Kar and is meant
metaphorically.
2) The second prophecy, IMHO, is definitely related to Morden. He was "dead" at
the time that Londo ordered his execution and that event directly ties in with
the Shadows' revenge as shown in The Fall of Centauri Prime.
surrender of his freedom to the Keeper, by which he embarked on the final road
to being the broken man that we saw in WWE.
As to the earlier prophecies: I would not spend too much time speculating on
those. My guess is that that was a throwaway line by JMS, just to point out
that the spiral to Londo's ultimate fate did not begin at that point, but
rather long before. JMS may well have had nothing specific in mind at all as to
these missed opportunities.
delen...@aol.com (DelennJohn) on Fri, 03 September 1999 wrote:
>Message-id: <19990903161246...@ng-fb1.aol.com>
JMarien3
JMS did answer this directly? Do you have the exact post?
Sorry, I don't get #2. How can it be Sheriden? Agree that he was "dead" but the
prophecy was that he had 3 more chances to avoid his fate. #2 was "You must not
kill the one who is already dead." Well, Londo DIDN'T do that, so how can this
prophecy refer to Sheriden then? Still say it's Morden!
"Shaz" <hyp...@Dialnospam.pipex.com>
wrote on Fri, 03 September 1999:
>
>nathank wrote in message <37D01627...@activenation.com>...
>>Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
>>"Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
>>up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
>>three chances left:
>>
>>1)He must save the eye that does not see.
>>2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
>>3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
>>greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>
Dwiff
the Shadows. If Londo had saved Morden, the Drakh would still have blown up
Centauri. >>
Morden warned londo that they had "allies" who would enact revenge. The Drakh
are enacting this vengeance--killing Morden and betraying the shadows were
intertwined acts.
Shaz
JMarien3 wrote in message <19990904004842...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
>In reply to post quoted below:
>JMS did answer this directly? Do you have the exact post?
Quoting jms (taken from the Lurker's Guide 'cos I'm too whacked to go
through Dejanews right now):
This covers the first one:
****************************
Why didn't Londo try to save G'Kar's eye?
Yeah...would've been nice if Londo had at least tried to do something about
the eye that did not see Cartagia's splendor....
*****************************
I'll have a look for the others but I KNOW he said plain a day that Sheridan
was the one who was already dead because this subject has been hammered to
death on that newsgroup and, for a while, I actually saved his post for the
next time someone asked. Now, of course, I can't find the blasted thing
<Bang! Bang! Bang! (hits head on wall)>
Shaz <frustrated>
Dwiff
****************************
Why didn't Londo try to save G'Kar's eye?
Yeah...would've been nice if Londo had at least tried to do something about
the eye that did not see Cartagia's splendor....
***************************** >>
Course he also says that it might be "I" and not "eye" either.
ImRastro
>My favorite take is this: Londo failed. His greatest fear was not death,
>it was the death of Centauri Prime.
and
>Thus, by not surrendering to his greatest fear, (letting Centauri fail) he
failed, and was damned
>somehow.
I agree. I argued this back when the ep originally aired and didn't get any
takers. I think the theoy fits the character that JMS created better then the
notion that Londo's greatest fear was dying at G'Kar's hand (even if that was
at one time, it certainly wasn't at the point he made that choice).
Nonetheless, ours is not the theory that JMS had in mind, or so I believe. I'm
pretty sure JMS has said elsewhere that Londo was redeemed. Which is nice
since I like Londo, but not as satisfying in some weird way.
ImRastro
>
>Yeah...would've been nice if Londo had at least tried to do something about
>the eye that did not see Cartagia's splendor....
I remember that from Compuserve. we all went gaga and slapped our heads for a
month or two. And then someone posted that just maybe.......he was joking. No
further comment from JMS as I recall. Read the post again, it's not
definative. He coulda been screwing with us. He used to do that sometimes.
It was fun.
Jeff Martin
JMarien3 wrote in message <19990904001835...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
>Roo <R...@hello.com> on Fri, 03 September 1999 wrote:
>
>>
>>nathank wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
>>> "Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
>>> up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
>>> three chances left:
>>>
>>> 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
>>
>>emperor. I think that G'Kar himself is "the eye that does not see".
>>After he loses his eye, G'Kar says something to the effect that when he
>>had 2 good eyes he was blind, but, now with only 1 good eye, he sees
>>clearly. Londo fulfills this requirement by saving G'Kar.
>>
>
>I also think this refers to G'Kar. Not sure that it can be explain
literally,
>but was meant more metaphorically.
>I have seen speculation that this actually refers to the Eye, the holy
relic
>that Londo obtained in an earlier episode (Season 2 I think) via Morden.
My take comes form a referrence JMS made on The Lurker's Guide, where he
commented on G'Kar having his eye needlessly removed and Londo not taking a
stand on it.
Loosely paraphrased, his comment was: "Yes, it's a shame that Londo didn't
trave to save G'Kar's eye, the one that couldn't see Cartagia's glory..."
"the one that 'couldn't see'..."
In Cartagia's perspective, his godhood was an obnvious thing, and G'Kar's
glare was, in turn, an insult and a blemish. Thus, the removal of the eye:
because it "couldn't see" Cartagia's obvious divinity.
In this case, Londo had the chance to redeem a part of his soul by staking a
stand on even the simplest of issues, but for the sake of not causing
himself trouble, he passed, and lost a chance.
>>> 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
>>
>>I think that this applies to Sheriden. Sheriden dies at Z'ha'dum. He
>>is the one who is already dead. Londo fulfills this requirement when he
>>lets Sheriden & Delenn go in the future.
>>
>
>Disagree. This refers to Morden, whom Londo had executed. This event came
back
>to haunt him in The Fall of Centauri Prime.
>
I agree compeltely...and Morden may count as being killed twice... first
from the Icarus, and then when Sheridan pulled a Death From Above on
Z'ha'dum...
>>> 3)And failing those, at the last, he must surrender himself to his
>>> greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>>
>>His death at the hands of G'Kar had been foreshadowed, and he was
>>obviously afraid of this. Despite that, he allowed G'Kar to live and
>>accepted the role of emperor, both of which he knew would cause his
>>death.
>
>It's either that --- or Londo's acceptance of the Keeper, whereby he
>surrendered his freedom in exchange for his world ... and thereby lost all
hope
>of life itself. I believe the latter.
I'd agree with you on this, JM... by acceptign a keeper, Londo lost any
choice of helping his world on his own...of being any use to the Centauri
except as a sacrifice... and that choice would eventually put him solidly
against the Alliance, Sheridan, and his own people, once they knew the
truth. Londo's name may well have become one of the most hated in history
for allowing the Drakh takeover (as they might come to see it)...damned in
life and in history? If that ain't being destroyed, I don't want to know
what is...
nathank
How was it any more needless than any of G'Kar's torture?
> Loosely paraphrased, his comment was: "Yes, it's a shame that Londo
> didn't
> trave to save G'Kar's eye, the one that couldn't see Cartagia's
> glory..."
>
> "the one that 'couldn't see'..."
> In Cartagia's perspective, his godhood was an obnvious thing, and
> G'Kar's
> glare was, in turn, an insult and a blemish. Thus, the removal of the
> eye:
> because it "couldn't see" Cartagia's obvious divinity.
>
> In this case, Londo had the chance to redeem a part of his soul by
> staking a
> stand on even the simplest of issues, but for the sake of not causing
> himself trouble, he passed, and lost a chance.
>
This was an interesting theme addressed by "The Long Night of Londo
Mollari"-- how Londo stood and watched a great injustice without saying
a word. However, I still don't see why saving G'Kar's eye should be
elevated to more importance than any of the other atrocities Cartagia
inflicted on G'Kar. Isn't that like saying it would have been fine for
Londo to allow G'Kar's torture (all for the sake of removing Cartagia)
as long as he prevented G'Kar's eye from being put out?
Of course, I don't quite understand what JMS means by "redemption" in
the context of this show, either.
> >>> 2)He must not kill the one who is already dead.
> >>
> >>I think that this applies to Sheriden. Sheriden dies at Z'ha'dum.
> He
> >>is the one who is already dead. Londo fulfills this requirement
> when he
> >>lets Sheriden & Delenn go in the future.
> >>
> >
> >Disagree. This refers to Morden, whom Londo had executed. This event
> came
> back
> >to haunt him in The Fall of Centauri Prime.
> >
>
> I agree compeltely...and Morden may count as being killed twice...
> first
> from the Icarus, and then when Sheridan pulled a Death From Above on
> Z'ha'dum...
>
I think Morden's shouting that the Shadow allies will "make you pay for
what you've done here today" as Londo's guards drag him off is a good
piece of dramatic evidence for that interpretation. The Sheridan idea
only seems to work dramatically if we know Sheridan is going to go on to
help Centauri Prime after Londo frees him.
Yeah, but how did accepting the keeper _redeem_ Londo in any way?
Since Londo had spent much of his life trying with all his energy to
avoid this fate, accepting it willingly definitely qualifies as what he
fears most. What about it was his redemption, though? Was it because
he did it to save his planet? (The Drakh threatened to set off a bomb
that would alledgedly have killed everybody, I think.)
Also, didn't Londo tell Sheridan in the "War Without End" scene that
this was his last chance for redemption? How does that fit if taking
the keeper was the third chance?
On another topic, how come JMS didn't make it clearer in the show what
the "three chances" were? (I"m not talking about "spelling it out,"
just making it less ambiguous in the story.) Was this something that
would originally been clearer? Or does JMS just like leaving some
things to wonder about? (I'm guessing the latter is more likely.)
I'm finding the discussion very interesting.
Nathan K.
Ryan Nock
capitalize), g'kar said londo never apologized for anything.
Not sincerely at least, but he did scream, "I APOLOGIZE!!!" to the
technomages in the geometry of shadows.
The Reverend Jacob Corbin
nathank wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, but how did accepting the keeper _redeem_ Londo in any way?
> Since Londo had spent much of his life trying with all his energy to
> avoid this fate, accepting it willingly definitely qualifies as what he
> fears most. What about it was his redemption, though? Was it because
> he did it to save his planet? (The Drakh threatened to set off a bomb
> that would alledgedly have killed everybody, I think.)
Well, in the JMS short story in "Amazing Stories" a month or two ago, it is
made clear that, even Keepered, Londo is still able to undermine the Drakh
through the judicious use of alcohol. That makes me doubt that freeing
Sheridan was the only 'good' act Londo peformed in his years of enslavement;
rather, he might have taken every possible opportunity to subvert the
conquerors--effectively trading his freedom for the eventual overthrow of
the Drakh regime.
Reverend Jake
Gerard Keating
Ryan Nock <Tai...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rt6ja7...@corp.supernews.com...
Maybe G'Kar did not know about this..... After all he was not there, and i
doubt if Londo ever told anyone...
gerard
Gryllka
Keeper. He also said that if I appear to change (because he knew he would
once he accepted the Keeper) that to remember the true Londo underneath it
all.
--
-=* Gryllka *=- [gry...@hotmail.com]
"I'll be in the car."
-Comdr. Ivanova - WWE
==============================
William B. Morse, III
> I'd agree with you on this, JM... by acceptign a keeper, Londo lost any
> choice of helping his world on his own...of being any use to the Centauri
> except as a sacrifice... and that choice would eventually put him solidly
> against the Alliance, Sheridan, and his own people, once they knew the
> truth. Londo's name may well have become one of the most hated in history
> for allowing the Drakh takeover (as they might come to see it)...damned in
> life and in history? If that ain't being destroyed, I don't want to know
> what is...
I agree with your reasoning on G'Kar's eye and Morden, but I had a really
weirdthought relating to Londo's greatest fear that ties in with the acceptance
of a
keeper. Rather than thinking of "fear" in the large sense--fear for the
decline of his people or fear of submitting to the Drakh--what if fear refers
to one of Londo's phobias? In "Sic Transit Vir" Londo demonstrates an intense
phobia concerning insects (I think this is acoraphobia sp?, but I'm not sure).
Given that the Keeper is insect-like in appearance (also arachnid-like, which I
realize is a completely different type of creature) and that Londo had seen one
on the Regent, it's possible that "Londo's greatest fear" refers to a physical
repulsion toward crawly things and that he must overcome this fear by accepting
a Keeper.
Just a weird thought. I'm not even sure I buy it.
Bill
nathank
> Ryan Nock <Tai...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rt6ja7...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > In the long night of londo molari (it's late, and I'm too tired to
> > capitalize), g'kar said londo never apologized for anything.
> >
> > Not sincerely at least, but he did scream, "I APOLOGIZE!!!" to the
> > technomages in the geometry of shadows.
> >
>
> Maybe G'Kar did not know about this..... After all he was not there,
> and i
> doubt if Londo ever told anyone...
>
> gerard
The problem is that it wasn't really G'Kar who said this in "The Long
Night of Londo Mollari," was it? It was all in Londo's mind.
Nathan K.
ImRastro
>No. Londo did apologize to G'Kar. It was right before he accepted the
>Keeper. He also said that if I appear to change (because he knew he would
>once he accepted the Keeper) that to remember the true Londo underneath it
>all.
Yeah, but that was after The Long Night of Londo M. As of tLNoLM, Londo had
never taken responsability for all of the badness that he had set in motion.
Not the same.
Jeff Martin
ImRastro wrote in message <19990907001805...@ng-fh1.aol.com>...
True. Perhaps admitting to his faults and mistakes and all the pain he had
caused his people and his friends was his greatest fear?
"Just turn around."
"NO!"
etc...
BUt then, how woudl that have destroyed him? Interesting...
Dianne Heins
> Here's an old topic that has never quite been answered for sure. In
> "Point of No Return," Lady Morella told Londo that he had already passed
> up two chances to avoid the destiny he fears awaits him and that he had
> three chances left:
>
> 1)He must save the eye that does not see.
> greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him.
>
> the wording right.)
>
>
> not see" seems to refer to G'Kar, but what event in Londo's life does it
> have reference to, and did he miss his chance on this or not? JMS seems
> to have hinted that this referred to Londo allowing Emperor Cartagia to
> put G'Kar's eye out, but that explanation never sat right with me. Why
> is this singled out from the rest of G'Kar's torture, such as when he
> was whipped until he was forced to scream (dishonorable and humiliating
> for any Narn)? Would it really have been "all right" if Londo had saved
> G'Kar's eye, but still allowed the rest of his torture?
that rag over his eye. I think we're back with the jewel being the
this particular "eye."
<snip>
>
> As for the second, there seem to be three candidates for "the one who is
> already dead": Morden, Sheridan, and Lord Refa. Morden was listed as
> dead on that ship that went to Z'ha'dum and could be seen as having
> given up his life to the service of the Shadows. When Londo killed him,
> Morden vowed that the Shadow's allies would make him pay. As it turned
> out in season 5, the Drakh were responsible for turning the Alliance
> against Centauri Prime, devastating the planet, and giving Londo the
> keeper. If Morden was the one "already dead," Londo failed at this
> chance.
I think it was also the... Anna Sheridan book that pretty much implies
that Morden was the Shadow's 6 million dollar man...
> Sheridan is another likely candidate; he has been called "the One" and
> died on Z'ha'dum. In this case the prophecy would refer to the scene in
> "War Without End" in which Londo puts the keeper to sleep so that he can
> release Sheridan and Delenn from his captivity and give Centauri Prime a
> chance to recover. In this case, Londo succeeded.
>
> I don't think Lord Refa is a popular candidate for this prophecy any
> more, but he could be considered "already dead" in that he was
> half-poisoned by Londo. Londo's devastation by Adira's death caused him
> to have Refa's death arranged and also made him more disposed to
> Morden's influence.
>
>
> I'm most convinced about the third one. From the very beginning of
> Babylon 5, Londo's fear of the death he saw in his dream-- being
> strangled by G'Kar-- was a major thread. It dominated his actions, in
> many ways-- it was the reason he asked for Lady Morella's prophecy. As
> it turned out, he had to surrender himself to this death in order to
> save Sheridan and Delenn and end the keeper's control over his actions.
> I'm fairly sure this is what the third chance referred to.
He seemed to take it as a matter of course, to me (his death and the
nature thereof)--even used it to prove he "couldn't die yet," iirc.
> However, there are other theories (and I'd be interested to hear them).
> They have to do with an analysis of Londo's character and whether that
> death was really what he feared most.
Personally, I don't think death was his greatest fear. I think this
part of the prophesy was actually dealt with in "The long night of
Londo Molari"
> So, there still are a lot of unanswered questions. What were the two
> chances Londo had already missed? How many (if any) did Londo take, and
> how many did he miss? Did they all occur in the same moment, at the end
> of his life, or spread across many years?
Hm, well, the classic form of, "you've got x chances to save yourself"
tends to only proceed until the person does the right thing, so he
probably blew the first two. I believe he faced them over time, as
well... putting them all together in one moment just doesn't work,
dramatically, for me <g>.
Dianne
Roo
> >
> >is the one who is already dead. Londo fulfills this requirement when he
> >lets Sheriden & Delenn go in the future.
> >
>
> Disagree. This refers to Morden, whom Londo had executed. This event came back
> to haunt him in The Fall of Centauri Prime.
Yes, but why would saving a scumbag like Morden enable Londo's
redemption?
Roo
DelennJohn
>From: Roo R...@hello.com
>Date: Tue, 07 September 1999 04:26 PM EDT
>Message-id: <37D574EE...@hello.com>
The Drakh/Shadows would of had no reason to destroy Prime, I guess, and thus,
he wouldn't have to complete the last thingy.
drago
Shaun Gerrans
wrote:
>
>JMarien3 wrote in message <19990904004842...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
>>In reply to post quoted below:
>>JMS did answer this directly? Do you have the exact post?
>
>
>Quoting jms (taken from the Lurker's Guide 'cos I'm too whacked to go
>through Dejanews right now):
>
It was posted on Compuserve so wouldn't be available through Dejanews.
>This covers the first one:
>****************************
>Why didn't Londo try to save G'Kar's eye?
>
>Yeah...would've been nice if Londo had at least tried to do something about
>the eye that did not see Cartagia's splendor....
>*****************************
The relevant header information for that post is as follows:
Date: 29 Nov 1996 17:36:22 -0700
From: J. Michael Straczynski <71016...@compuserve.com>
To: (blocked)
Subject: 404: Falling
>I'll have a look for the others but I KNOW he said plain a day that Sheridan
>was the one who was already dead because this subject has been hammered to
>death on that newsgroup and, for a while, I actually saved his post for the
After many hours (many many hours) of searching I found the following
Compuserve post confirming that Sheridan is indeed the man who is
already dead:
***********************************************************************************
Date: 10 Mar 1997 02:22:21 -0700
Meryl Yourish <10347...@compuserve.com> asks:
> Was Lorien the man in between?
> Was Sheridan the man in between?
> Was Justin the man in between?
> Okay, if you won't answer those three, then will you answer the
> following? Was Refa the one who was already dead?
Refa was never already dead, so it can't be him. Dead is dead,
and the only one who fits that description would be Sheridan.
jms
**********************************************************************************
Shaun
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One. We die for the One."
Note to reply via Email remove NOSPAMTODAY
nathank
What about when Londo blew up the island that the Shadows' base was
on? Morden seemed pretty upset about that and I would be willing to bet
that the Drakh were too. It's not like they had a personal attachment
to Morden in particular. It seems like they act in the interests of
their former masters. (I think they were also mad about Z'ha'dum
getting blown up.)
Nathan K.
nathank
> >Subject: Re: Londo's chances for redemption (long)
> >From: nathank nat...@activenation.com
> >Date: Tue, 07 September 1999 08:44 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <37D5B184...@activenation.com>
> That's what I think it would be more like - Londo wouldn't of blown
> the island
> if he told Morden he was going to if they didn't leave. Thus, he
> wouldn't kill
> morden, morden would leave with the Shadows.
>
> drago
I have a very hard time believing that-- the Shadows do not seem likely
to just give in to threats. Does this scenario seem at all plausible?
Morden: So what are you gonna do, blow up the island?
Londo: Yes.
Morden: Oh, my goodness. We had no idea you were so serious. I guess
we'd better be leaving!
Londo struck at the Shadows before they had any chance to react. I
really don't think he would have gotten rid of them any other way. If
they had had time to launch just one ship, for instance, they could have
threatened to wipe out several major cities.
Of course, the real tragedy in this was that the Shadows left for the
Rim very shortly after Londo made an enemy of them. (Also that the
Vorlons left-- they were the reason Londo thought he needed to remove
the Shadows immediately.) He could not have known his actions would
prove unnecessary and would only bring pain to his world.
It seems that each of the likely explanations for these prophecies has a
lot of arguments for and against it being the correct one. It's getting
harder and harder for me to say which one seems to fit better. B5 has a
lot of dramatic symmetry (is that the term I want?) and that may be part
of it.
Nathan K.
Dwiff
Compuserve post confirming that Sheridan is indeed the man who is
already dead:
**************************************************************************
*********
Date: 10 Mar 1997 02:22:21 -0700
Meryl Yourish <10347...@compuserve.com> asks:
> Was Lorien the man in between?
> Was Sheridan the man in between?
> Was Justin the man in between?
> Okay, if you won't answer those three, then will you answer the
> following? Was Refa the one who was already dead?
Refa was never already dead, so it can't be him. Dead is dead,
and the only one who fits that description would be Sheridan.
jms
>>
ok, but two questions:
one--jms' reply is a little ambigous-- does "fit that description" refer to
"man in between" or "already dead"? It sure seems to reply to "already dead"
but it's not %100 clear, which leads me to my second question:
two: if Sheridan is the one who is already dead, then Londo saved him and DOES
NOT NEED TO SURRENDER TO HIS GREATEST FEAR. Saving the one who is already dead
was chance number two, and Londo only needed to surrender if he failed chance
one and two. So, if Sheridan is the one who is already dead, and Londo saved
him in WWE2 then we never saw him surrender to his greatest fear, because he
had already averted his "fate."
DelennJohn
DelennJohn
>Date: Tue, 07 September 1999 09:14 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19990907211423...@ng-cn1.aol.com>
>
><< After many hours (many many hours) of searching I found the following
>Compuserve post confirming that Sheridan is indeed the man who is
>already dead:
>
>**************************************************************************
>*********
>Date: 10 Mar 1997 02:22:21 -0700
>
> Meryl Yourish <10347...@compuserve.com> asks:
> > Was Lorien the man in between?
> > Was Sheridan the man in between?
> > Was Justin the man in between?
> > Okay, if you won't answer those three, then will you answer the
> > following? Was Refa the one who was already dead?
>
> Refa was never already dead, so it can't be him. Dead is dead,
>and the only one who fits that description would be Sheridan.
>
> jms
> >>
>
>
>ok, but two questions:
>
>one--jms' reply is a little ambigous-- does "fit that description" refer to
>"man in between" or "already dead"? It sure seems to reply to "already dead"
>but it's not %100 clear, which leads me to my second question:
>
>two: if Sheridan is the one who is already dead, then Londo saved him and
>DOES
>dead
>was chance number two, and Londo only needed to surrender if he failed chance
>one and two. So, if Sheridan is the one who is already dead, and Londo saved
>him in WWE2 then we never saw him surrender to his greatest fear, because he
>had already averted his "fate."
Okay, how long do you think it would take you to figure out Sheridan was the
one who was already dead if JMS hadn't said so first? Put youself at Londo's
posision; he probably thought it was someone else, and so, he died.
Remember, Londo died also, so that when the sleeper woke up it wouldn't know
what Londo to Sheridan/Delenn, and if it did find out, Londo would of been
dead, anyway.
drago
JMarien3
I agree. And, from the other point of view, the Drahk/Keeper probably let Londo
have his little "victories" from time to time to keep him appeased; it would be
in their best interest to do so. After a time, the situation might well have
settled into a little game between both sides, Keeper and Kept.
JMarien3
Thanks for the time to research this.
I confess, though, that I still have trouble understanding how the one who is
dead can be Sheriden. The 2nd point of redemption was *not* to kill the man who
is already dead ... but Londo did *not* do that to Sheriden, so how can that be
it? It still seems like it should be Morden.
From the timing of JMS' post, the killing or Morden had not yet occurred
(right?), so might his post have possibly pointed to the likely candidate at
that time, even though it was not the final answer?
Still puzzled here!
Sh...@yedor.demon.NOSPAMTODAY.co.uk (Shaun Gerrans) on Tue, 07 September 1999
wrote:
>Message-id: <37d593be...@news.demon.co.uk>
>
>On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:02:38 +0100, "Shaz" <hyp...@Dialnospam.pipex.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>JMarien3 wrote in message <19990904004842...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
>>>In reply to post quoted below:
>>>JMS did answer this directly? Do you have the exact post?
>>
>>
>>Quoting jms (taken from the Lurker's Guide 'cos I'm too whacked to go
>>through Dejanews right now):
>>
>
>It was posted on Compuserve so wouldn't be available through Dejanews.
>
>>This covers the first one:
>>****************************
>>Why didn't Londo try to save G'Kar's eye?
>>
>>Yeah...would've been nice if Londo had at least tried to do something about
>>the eye that did not see Cartagia's splendor....
>>*****************************
>
>The relevant header information for that post is as follows:
>
>Date: 29 Nov 1996 17:36:22 -0700
>From: J. Michael Straczynski <71016...@compuserve.com>
>To: (blocked)
>Subject: 404: Falling
>
>>I'll have a look for the others but I KNOW he said plain a day that Sheridan
>>was the one who was already dead because this subject has been hammered to
>>death on that newsgroup and, for a while, I actually saved his post for the
>
Dwiff
one who was already dead if JMS hadn't said so first? Put youself at Londo's
posision; he probably thought it was someone else, and so, he died.
>>
Good point, BUT it was fairly common knowledge that Sheridan "died" at
Zahadum--see Garibaldi's bitching about the cult of Sheridan. And the prophecy
involved three opportunties to avert fate, although your supposition makes
logical sense, I've got to say from a dramatic/literary view "Londo was
successful at option number 2 but did not know it so went for option three"
ain't that satisfying.
ImRastro
>True. Perhaps admitting to his faults and mistakes and all the pain he had
>caused his people and his friends was his greatest fear?
>
Hey, that's a clever idea I never considered before.....maybe Londo was
redeemed all along...
Christian Smith
<jma...@qconline.com> wrote:
>True. Perhaps admitting to his faults and mistakes and all the pain he had
>caused his people and his friends was his greatest fear?
See, I always thought that surrendering to his greatest fear was the
moment when he told Vir to kill him to save C.Prime from the Vorlons.
Redemption and death.
Christian
"Never pick a fight with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level.
And beat you with years of experience."
ICQ 45494039
DelennJohn
>Date: Tue, 07 September 1999 11:33 PM EDT
>Message-id: <37D5D8F9...@activenation.com>
>
>DelennJohn wrote:
>
>> >Subject: Re: Londo's chances for redemption (long)
>> >Date: Tue, 07 September 1999 08:44 PM EDT
>> >Message-id: <37D5B184...@activenation.com>
>> >
>> >DelennJohn wrote:
>> >
>to just give in to threats. Does this scenario seem at all plausible?
>
>Morden: So what are you gonna do, blow up the island?
>Londo: Yes.
>Morden: Oh, my goodness. We had no idea you were so serious. I guess
>we'd better be leaving!
>
>Londo struck at the Shadows before they had any chance to react. I
>really don't think he would have gotten rid of them any other way. If
>they had had time to launch just one ship, for instance, they could have
>threatened to wipe out several major cities.
>
>Of course, the real tragedy in this was that the Shadows left for the
>Rim very shortly after Londo made an enemy of them. (Also that the
>Vorlons left-- they were the reason Londo thought he needed to remove
>the Shadows immediately.) He could not have known his actions would
>prove unnecessary and would only bring pain to his world.
>
>It seems that each of the likely explanations for these prophecies has a
>lot of arguments for and against it being the correct one. It's getting
>harder and harder for me to say which one seems to fit better. B5 has a
>lot of dramatic symmetry (is that the term I want?) and that may be part
>of it.
>
Yeah, but, I dunno, it might of.
drago
Dianne Heins
>
> JMarien3 wrote in message <19990907234935...@ng-fs1.aol.com>...
> >In reply to the post below:
> >Thanks for the time to research this.
> >I confess, though, that I still have trouble understanding how the one who
> is
> >dead can be Sheriden. The 2nd point of redemption was *not* to kill the man
> who
> >is already dead ... but Londo did *not* do that to Sheriden, so how can
> that be
> >it? It still seems like it should be Morden.
>
> nightmare he'd carried all his life of being murdered by a Narn, G'kar) then
> he WOULD have killed the one who was already dead, Sheridan, because the
> keeper would have known what Londo had done and arranged for his buddies to
> shoot Sheridan and Delenn down as they tried to leave the planet. So he had
> to do BOTH of the last two in order to save his hide. He did, Sheridan and
> Delenn escaped, Vir took over, the ISA helped Vir free Centauri Prime of the
> Drakh, problem solved.
>
That's assuming dying was his greatest fear...
Dianne
Shaz
Dianne Heins wrote in message ...
>Shaz wrote...
>> Hang on. If Londo had not subsequently surrendered to his greatest fear
(the
>> nightmare he'd carried all his life of being murdered by a Narn, G'kar)
then
>> he WOULD have killed the one who was already dead, Sheridan, because the
>> keeper would have known what Londo had done and arranged for his buddies
to
>> shoot Sheridan and Delenn down as they tried to leave the planet. So he
had
>> to do BOTH of the last two in order to save his hide. He did, Sheridan
and
>> Delenn escaped, Vir took over, the ISA helped Vir free Centauri Prime of
the
>> Drakh, problem solved.
>>
>
>That's assuming dying was his greatest fear...
>
>Dianne
No, it's assuming dying at the hands of a Narn (the enemies of the Centauri)
was his greatest fear. Subtle difference. I don't think Londo was afraid of
death per se, just the manner of it and the implications of that manner.
Shaz
Adam Stephens
Can't quite remember when though.