"Theron," Flaming dork or master of trolls?
ia...@datahaven.com
I just read my first "Theron" post.
Why does this guy even bother watching the show? He obviously
thinks that it sucks. He obviously thinks he's God's gift to
television production and is all knowing in these matters.
Sheesh, talk about a legend in one's own mind.
So, "Theron," how are the ratings for YOUR show going?
What, you don't have one? Do you even have a job, or do you just
troll the net looking for chances to slam those who are successful
and dazzle us all with your razor wit?
Ian.
Work: IA...@microsoft.com
Home: IA...@datahaven.com
--
/********************************************************************/
/ From The Crossroads BBS in Seattle WA */
/********************************************************************/
Abuabara
>
>I just read my first "Theron" post.
>
>Why does this guy even bother watching the show? He obviously
>thinks that it sucks. He obviously thinks he's God's gift to
>television production and is all knowing in these matters.
>
>Sheesh, talk about a legend in one's own mind.
>
>So, "Theron," how are the ratings for YOUR show going?
>What, you don't have one? Do you even have a job, or do you just
>troll the net looking for chances to slam those who are successful
>and dazzle us all with your razor wit?
>
Just because Theron Fuller has an exaggerated sens of his/her/its/their
own importance doesn't mean the rest of the bleeding newsgroup has to.
TF is *not* important, distinctive, or slanderous enough to merit
becoming the rastb5 antagonist of the month; are we so desperate for
flamewars that we make our own, w/out waiting for provocation?? TF is
just another person expressing a negative opinion about the show. That's
fine. Other people have. Anyone has a right to. It's not worth making a
flamewar about. Personally, I'm pissed about this b/c it seems to me
since the MAJOR flamewars have started on this group that JMS has been
posting less often, & that his posts are more often about silly things
like those very name-calling contests. This is distressing.
BTW, my mind is inviolate & my petunia is healthy, & this is *not* a
flame towards abybody. But *somebody* has to keep some damn perspective
around here. >:(
--
Ligia Abuabara "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards;
lkab...@midway.uchicago.edu it makes them soggy and hard to light."
Debbie Fuller
>
> I just read my first "Theron" post.
>
> Why does this guy even bother watching the show? He obviously
> thinks that it sucks. He obviously thinks he's God's gift to
> television production and is all knowing in these matters.
You obviously do not know how to read what people are saying. Theron has
many times complemented the show but as of late is expressing his
disappointment at the way certain aspects of it were handled as many others
on this list have done. JMS has taken upon himself to make a person vendetta
out of it.
Randomly reading someone's posts to try and understand their point is trying
to understand Christianity by randomly picking out Bible verses.
> Sheesh, talk about a legend in one's own mind.
>
> So, "Theron," how are the ratings for YOUR show going?
> What, you don't have one? Do you even have a job, or do you just
> troll the net looking for chances to slam those who are successful
> and dazzle us all with your razor wit?
Why is it when people don't like what someone has to say they make the
accusation they have had no education and have nothing better to do than
to get on USNET and annoy people? You never know, Theron just might have
more education than you do.
Deb
Nathan Mates
Debbie Fuller <DEB...@dirac.physics.jmu.edu> wrote:
>In <011557JHPL...@datahaven.com> ia...@datahaven.com writes:
>> I just read my first "Theron" post.
>> Why does this guy even bother watching the show? He obviously
>> thinks that it sucks. He obviously thinks he's God's gift to
>> television production and is all knowing in these matters.
>You obviously do not know how to read what people are saying. Theron has
>many times complemented the show but as of late is expressing his
>disappointment at the way certain aspects of it were handled as many others
>on this list have done. JMS has taken upon himself to make a person vendetta
>out of it.
I really don't think that JMS has said anything to Theron in the
past few weeks at all. A lot of others (aka not JMS) have been flaming
Theron's attacks, some deserved, some less deserved.
Saying that Theron's posts "Express disappointment" is like calling
Mr. A. Hitler's words "critical of certain racial groups." They're both
true, but there's the factor of quantity and level of attacks that
have been totally ignored. Theron's been saying things loudly and often,
sometimes claiming to "speak for every couch potato and vote with my
remote control," and expressing the same things over and over again
as if repetition would deign them with a respose from JMS.
I wouldn't have minded a scene with Sinclair leaving, but if the
author deemed it unnecessary, so be it. What if such a scene had
been written and filmed, but it was a choice between that and the
awesome battle of the line scenes (which were too short for others)?
Babylon 5 is limited by the fact that episodes can be no longer than
41-42 minutes (44 minutes minus intro & credits); decisions have to
be made, things have to be cut.
Saying that you didn't like things once is enough. Continually
saying it in a negative tone is a good way to get very flamed, which
is what's happened.
> You never know, Theron just might have more education than you do.
Education does not imply personality and ettiquette. Someone can
have a PhD, and be a real jerk. People that never went to school can
have more politeness than those that did. This flamewar was discussing
Theron's behavior on the net, which has been less than perfect.
Nathan Mates
--
* Nathan Mates http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~nathan/ *
* Ftp humor archiver: ftp to cco.caltech.edu, look in pub/humor *
* "Always listen to experts. They'll tell what can't be done, and *
* why. Then do it." -- Robert A. Heinlein, Lazarus Long *
szgi...@cassatt.ucdavis.edu
: since the MAJOR flamewars have started on this group that JMS has been
: posting less often, & that his posts are more often about silly things
: like those very name-calling contests. This is distressing.
: BTW, my mind is inviolate & my petunia is healthy, & this is *not* a
: flame towards abybody. But *somebody* has to keep some damn perspective
: around here. >:(
Aaaaaah. A voice of reason in the wilderness.
Neil
Theron Fuller
Mates) writes:
>
>In article <Czp0w...@hub.cs.jmu.edu>,
>Debbie Fuller <DEB...@dirac.physics.jmu.edu> wrote:
>>In <011557JHPL...@datahaven.com> ia...@datahaven.com writes:
>>> I just read my first "Theron" post.
>
>>> Why does this guy even bother watching the show? He obviously
>>> thinks that it sucks. He obviously thinks he's God's gift to
>>> television production and is all knowing in these matters.
>
>>You obviously do not know how to read what people are saying. Theron
has
>>many times complemented the show but as of late is expressing his
>>disappointment at the way certain aspects of it were handled as many
others
>>on this list have done. JMS has taken upon himself to make a person
vendetta
>>out of it.
>
> I really don't think that JMS has said anything to Theron in the
>past few weeks at all. A lot of others (aka not JMS) have been flaming
>Theron's attacks, some deserved, some less deserved.
>
> Saying that Theron's posts "Express disappointment" is like calling
>Mr. A. Hitler's words "critical of certain racial groups."
>They're both true, but there's the factor of quantity and level of
>attacks that have been totally ignored.
Totally inappropriate comparison. First of all, I challenge you to cite
a credible reference from any of Adolf Hitler's writings or speeches in
which he says anything "critical of certain racial groups" that is true.
Second, the differences in importance is totally out of scale. I
express personal opinions regarding an entertaining t.v. series. Adolf
Hitler expressed national opinions which resulted in the deaths of
millions of people. Third, I don't think any sort of comparison of any
individual, whether me or anyone else, with Adolf Hitler is appropriate.
>Theron's been saying things loudly and often,
I plead guilty to that.
>sometimes claiming to "speak for every couch potato and vote with my
>remote control,"
I'm the only couch potato I speak for.
Since some flamers and complainers insist on incorrectly paraphrasing
the points I try to make, I have to keep correcting the errors that keep
insinuating themselves into the posts.
So, one more once, this time for your benefit. In response to flamers
who pick up on JMS's flame and assert "It's not your show, It's not your
series," I pointed out that in a small sense it is. I get one vote,
just like any other person with a t.v. set in an area of the U.S. where
B5 is broadcast. If I watch the show, I vote "for" B5. I indirectly
express the opinion that I approve of how JMS is producing his show. If
other viewers choose to watch other programs, or no t.v. program at all,
they vote "against" B5. They indirectly express the opinion that they
either don't approve of the way JMS is producing his show, or just
don't care enough to watch it.
All the millions of opinions, yours, mine, everybody's, get summarized
in the ratings. The ratings are the bottom line. The ratings summarize
viewers' opinions in a few easy-to-understand numbers. If the ratings
hold or increase, then in the aggregate, viewers approve of the various
decisions JMS made and implemented. If the ratings sag, then many old
viewers don't approve of JMS's decisions, and many potential new viewers
don't care enough to watch the show.
Now I went out on a limb and gave JMS, or anyone else, an opportunity to
slam dunk me. November is ratings sweeps month in the U.S. Viewer
preferences are measured with extra precision during this period. If
viewers in the aggregate approve of the way JMS is producing his show
and the changes he has introduced, then B5's ratings should have held or
measurably increased.
I hypothesize that B5 ratings have sagged. (I ain't no expert on the
subject of t.v. program scheduling, but I ain't seen a show with a real
big audience broadcast at 2 a.m.) All anyone has to do to slam dunk me
is to post the November sweeps ratings for B5 that demonstrate this
isn't so.
If JMS is always honest and up front with his fans, then this is
certainly a topic that is of interest and concern to every B5 fan. If
B5's ratings are relatively good and indicate B5's chances for renewal
are positive, it would be good to hear. If this isn't the case, then
fans should be told that also.
>and expressing the same things over and over again as if repetition
>would deign them with a respose from JMS.
I don't give a happy rat's ass if JMS responds to me or not. I post
here to have some dialogue with other persons who watch B5. If JMS
insists (or "deigns") on responding to me, I wish he'd do it in more
constructive way that indicates he actually read what I posted.
When I get flamed by JMS, or anybody else, I attempt to answer those
flames. The only reason I keep posting the same point over and over is
the things I have posted, or the points I have made keep being distorted
over and over, or taken out of context, or used to imply points of view
I don't have.
>
> I wouldn't have minded a scene with Sinclair leaving, but if the
>author deemed it unnecessary, so be it. What if such a scene had
>been written and filmed, but it was a choice between that and the
>awesome battle of the line scenes (which were too short for others)?
But that wasn't the case. JMS himself said in a flame to me that
Michael O'Hare was in New York and wasn't available for filming. JMS
had no choice but to handle Sinclair's leaving indirectly.
Even if it was a choice of having a scene with Sinclair, or some other
scene, then >my personal opinion< was, and would be that JMS handled it
badly. That, in fact, is my individual opinion of that part of that
particular episode.
>Babylon 5 is limited by the fact that episodes can be no longer than
>41-42 minutes (44 minutes minus intro & credits); decisions have to
>be made, things have to be cut.
And some decisions that have been made are better than others. And B5
is produced in the real world. And JMS, and every other t.v. producer,
makes decisions based on expediency, or budget, or the availability of
actors, or broken legs, or a thousand other real-world considerations.
Some work dramatically, some don't. If the scene seems out of place, or
is impossible to understand, sometimes it's foreshadowing, and will be
explained later, and sometimes it's just a scene that is out of place
or impossible to understand.
>
> Saying that you didn't like things once is enough. Continually
>saying it in a negative tone is a good way to get very flamed, which
>is what's happened.
Obviously so in this case! :-)
>
>> You never know, Theron just might have more education than you do.
>
> Education does not imply personality and ettiquette. Someone can
>have a PhD, and be a real jerk. People that never went to school can
>have more politeness than those that did. This flamewar was discussing
>Theron's behavior on the net, which has been less than perfect.
>
I heartily agree! Insinuations regarding one's education, or lack
thereof, have become tiresome cliches in flames. The points a person
makes should stand on their own.
>Nathan Mates
Regards,
Theron Fuller
--
Theron Fuller <ful...@ix.netcom.com> Liz Fuller
"I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from
going insane." --Waylon Jennings
D. Pat Beckfield
>In article <011557JHPL...@datahaven.com> ia...@datahaven.com writes:
>>
.
.
>>
>Oh look - this is ridiculous!!
>Just because Theron Fuller has an exaggerated sens of his/her/its/their
>own importance doesn't mean the rest of the bleeding newsgroup has to.
>TF is *not* important, distinctive, or slanderous enough to merit
>becoming the rastb5 antagonist of the month; are we so desperate for
>flamewars that we make our own, w/out waiting for provocation?? TF is
>just another person expressing a negative opinion about the show. That's
>fine. Other people have. Anyone has a right to. It's not worth making a
>flamewar about. Personally, I'm pissed about this b/c it seems to me
>since the MAJOR flamewars have started on this group that JMS has been
>posting less often, & that his posts are more often about silly things
>like those very name-calling contests. This is distressing.
>BTW, my mind is inviolate & my petunia is healthy, & this is *not* a
>flame towards abybody. But *somebody* has to keep some damn perspective
>around here. >:(
>
>--
>Ligia Abuabara "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards;
>lkab...@midway.uchicago.edu it makes them soggy and hard to light."
No BOOM today. BOOM tomorrow. There's always a BOOM! Somebody's got
to keep some damn perspective.
[Not having my VCR at hand, it's the best I can do. -- dpb]
--
D. Patrick Beckfield, Tech writer pat.be...@network.com
Network Systems Corporation (612) 391-1260
7600 Boone Ave North
Minneapolis, MN 55428
Brendan K. Berver
: > Saying that Theron's posts "Express disappointment" is like calling
: >Mr. A. Hitler's words "critical of certain racial groups."
: >They're both true, but there's the factor of quantity and level of
: >attacks that have been totally ignored.
: Totally inappropriate comparison. First of all, I challenge you to cite
: a credible reference from any of Adolf Hitler's writings or speeches in
: which he says anything "critical of certain racial groups" that is true.
: Second, the differences in importance is totally out of scale. I
: express personal opinions regarding an entertaining t.v. series. Adolf
: Hitler expressed national opinions which resulted in the deaths of
: millions of people. Third, I don't think any sort of comparison of any
: individual, whether me or anyone else, with Adolf Hitler is appropriate.
Theron, I speak for every net-surfer and vote with my 'n' key.
My opinion is just as justified as yours, and if I'm of the opinion that
comparing you to Adolf Hitler is appropriate, who are you to tell me I
can't?
8) Sorry, but I just _had_ to toss that one back at you....
The Little Raven
Mark.O.Wilson
says...
> Education does not imply personality and ettiquette. Someone can
Nor does it imply intelligence.
C. Ambler - Strangeitude
>Brendan K. Berver (bbe...@nmsu.edu) wrote:
>: My opinion is just as justified as yours, and if I'm of the opinion that
>: comparing you to Adolf Hitler is appropriate, who are you to tell me I
>: can't?
>
>matter how little merit it possesses.
I prefer Harlan's musing:
Everyone is NOT entitled to their opinion, everyone is entitled to
an INFORMED opinion.
Words to live by.
--
++Christopher(); // Christopher J. Ambler --- I have that knowledge...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Central Coast Connection --- 805-544-3754 --- 2 line VOICE BBS
opinions are the author's, various AI, and the occasional Ozric Tentacles CD
Theron Fuller
>
>car...@teleport.com (Chris Carter) says:
>>Brendan K. Berver (bbe...@nmsu.edu) wrote:
>>: My opinion is just as justified as yours, and if I'm of the opinion
that
>>: comparing you to Adolf Hitler is appropriate, who are you to tell me
I
>>: can't?
>>
>>Look at it this way... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion: no
>>matter how little merit it possesses.
>
>I prefer Harlan's musing:
>
> Everyone is NOT entitled to their opinion, everyone is entitled to
>an INFORMED opinion.
>
>Words to live by.
>
All opinions aren't dependent on information, or background, or
intelligence, or social status, or almost any other social factor.
For example, President Bush expressed his personal opinion that he did
not like the taste of broccoli. His conclusion did not depend on how
much information he had on the growing of brocolli, the physiology of
human taste, the nutritional value of brocolli, or how brocolli can be
prepared.
I expressed the opinion that I was disappointed in the way that
Sinclair's departure was handled dramatically. Knowing that JMS handled
the episode in the manner the great Japanese Kabuki theater masters
handled the same situation, or he was actually paying homage to "Black
Beauty," or whatever additional information I mightaquire would probably
not change that opinion at all.
Besides, persons have only the right to an informed opinion, Harlan
Ellison would have to give up lots of his that he has expressed over the
years with great emotion. :-)
Chris Carter
: I prefer Harlan's musing:
: Everyone is NOT entitled to their opinion, everyone is entitled to
: an INFORMED opinion.
: Words to live by.
Yes. Thanks for posting that.
--
Chris Carter -- car...@teleport.com (Fidonet 1:105/302.23)
The standard disclaimer applies. .sig under construction...
J Eric Chard
>
>I expressed the opinion that I was disappointed in the way that
>Sinclair's departure was handled dramatically. Knowing that JMS handled
>the episode in the manner the great Japanese Kabuki theater masters
>handled the same situation, or he was actually paying homage to "Black
>Beauty," or whatever additional information I mightaquire would probably
>not change that opinion at all.
Thus Theron comes down firmly on the side of ignorance.
***********************************************************************
* (OOOOO) Je...@cup.portal.com | Synergy Graphix & Animation *
* (OOOOOOO) Welcome to Seattle! | Film and Video Productions *
* /////// "All I know is what I see on the monitors." *
***********************************************************************
Yves Grant
>who pick up on JMS's flame and assert "It's not your show, It's not your
>series," I pointed out that in a small sense it is. I get one vote,
>just like any other person with a t.v. set in an area of the U.S. where
>B5 is broadcast. If I watch the show, I vote "for" B5. I indirectly
>express the opinion that I approve of how JMS is producing his show. If
>other viewers choose to watch other programs, or no t.v. program at all,
>they vote "against" B5. They indirectly express the opinion that they
>either don't approve of the way JMS is producing his show, or just
>don't care enough to watch it.
>
>All the millions of opinions, yours, mine, everybody's, get summarized
>in the ratings. The ratings are the bottom line. The ratings summarize
>viewers' opinions in a few easy-to-understand numbers. If the ratings
>hold or increase, then in the aggregate, viewers approve of the various
>decisions JMS made and implemented. If the ratings sag, then many old
>viewers don't approve of JMS's decisions, and many potential new viewers
>don't care enough to watch the show.
Nelson ratings, or whatever other system you are a part of for casting a
vote every time you change the channel. Unfortunately, I, like many
others I know, am not. When I watch televison, no one cares if I'm
watching Babylon 5 or static. Metaphorically, I am voting, but no
one is marking it down.
Please keep in mind that it is always easier to talk about something than
to do it. I happen to think Babylon 5 is one of the few good shows on
television. I would hate to see it go before it's five year arc is
completed. I look forward every week to the next new episode. Usually
they live up to my expectations. So when someone delights in nit picking
and critisizing rather than trying to find the good qualities of the
episode, it only fuels anger. What good will it do to improve the series?
-Yves
--
_______________________________________________________________
"Logs can be altered, and it's a good bet he didn't reach down
his throat and yank out his own heart." -Capt. Sheridan
"Take my advice and go back to the time you came from. The
future isnt' what it used to be." -Amb. G'Kar
yv...@netcom.com
_______________________________________________________________
Theron Fuller
>
>Theron writes:
>>
>>I expressed the opinion that I was disappointed in the way that
>>Sinclair's departure was handled dramatically. Knowing that JMS
handled
>>the episode in the manner the great Japanese Kabuki theater masters
>>handled the same situation, or he was actually paying homage to "Black
>>Beauty," or whatever additional information I mightaquire would
probably
>>not change that opinion at all.
>
>
> Thus Theron comes down firmly on the side of ignorance.
>
Yes, ignorance truly is bliss. Even when some individuals are given an
erudite explanation of something, they choose to remain
blissfully ignorant of the larger truths contained in the subject.
Some persons can remain ignorant, even though they are fully informed
about the subject.
Some persons even demonstrate an ignorance of the difference in
meaning between "ignorant" and "uninformed."
Mark.O.Wilson
cam...@harp.aix.calpoly.edu says...
>
>car...@teleport.com (Chris Carter) says:
>>Brendan K. Berver (bbe...@nmsu.edu) wrote:
>>: My opinion is just as justified as yours, and if I'm of the opinion
that
>>: comparing you to Adolf Hitler is appropriate, who are you to tell me
I
>>: can't?
>>
>>Look at it this way... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion: no
>>matter how little merit it possesses.
>
>I prefer Harlan's musing:
>
> Everyone is NOT entitled to their opinion, everyone is entitled to
>an INFORMED opinion.
Unfortunately most people's definition of informed is *agrees with mine*.
Harlan seems especially prone to this tendency.
Mark.O.Wilson
>
>Theron writes:
>>
>>I expressed the opinion that I was disappointed in the way that
>>Sinclair's departure was handled dramatically. Knowing that JMS
handled
>>the episode in the manner the great Japanese Kabuki theater masters
>>handled the same situation, or he was actually paying homage to "Black
>>Beauty," or whatever additional information I mightaquire would
probably
>>not change that opinion at all.
>
>
> Thus Theron comes down firmly on the side of ignorance.
I don't see how you get that at all. Theron is talking about style.
Not everyone likes the same style.