B5 & Tolkien

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DaStinson

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Nov 14, 1994, 8:40:20 PM11/14/94
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Frankly, I would consider the more accurate characterizations to be:
Sinclair - Aragorn (The King, The Elessar)
Delenn - Arwen (daughter of Elrond Half-elven, who weds Aragorn)
G'Kar - Theoden
Morden - The Leader of the Nazgul
Susan Ivanova - Eowen
Garibaldi - Boromir
Talia - (Hard to say - Galadriel - cool but world-wise)
Lennier - Legolas
Londo - Gimli
Kosh - Gandalf (the Gray, who becomes the White, always speaking in
riddles)
Sheridan - Eomer?

B^2 idea - Zathras as Gollum

***********************************************************************
Dave Stinson * Behold the Sword that was Broken!
DaSt...@aol.com * (now hastily re-glued)
DA...@procom.com * - Bored of the Rings
***********************************************************************
"Come, Athelas,help to the dying! In the King's hand a-lying!"

strac...@genie.geis.com

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Nov 15, 1994, 7:56:00 PM11/15/94
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The only problem with this discussion is that it begins on the
assumption that there is *any* kind of one-to-one correlation between
B5 characters and LoTR characters. There isn't. There are, however,
many aspects that they share in that they both are moving toward creating
myth of a sort; if you've read Campbell's "Hero With a Thousand Faces,"
you know that there are some constants that work throughout mythic-based
fiction. The Foundation books, the Lensman books, Childhood's End, all
worked on a kind of myth-structure; so does B5 (at least in theory; how
well it actually succeeds at that task will have to be seen with time).

jms

Abuabara

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Nov 16, 1994, 4:04:29 PM11/16/94
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In article <3a93i4$s...@newsbf01.news.aol.com> dast...@aol.com (DaStinson) writes:
>Frankly, I would consider the more accurate characterizations to be:
>Sinclair - Aragorn (The King, The Elessar)

Makes more sense for him to be Gandalf, who is stolen away but comes
back wiser & stronger.

>Delenn - Arwen (daughter of Elrond Half-elven, who weds Aragorn)

Are you kidding? Arwen did nothing but sit there & look pretty. Delenn
is doing just a little bit more. How about Galadriel, with the ring on
her finger?

>G'Kar - Theoden

No way. The Narn are dwarves. Gotta be. Belligerent, powerful, stubborn,
ugly... (sorry, ladies of the G'kar appreciation club: it's my humble
opinion :)

>Morden - The Leader of the Nazgul

Combined with Wormtongue.

>Susan Ivanova - Eowen

How about Gimli for her? A true companion, capable and dour...

>Garibaldi - Boromir

You expect him to be a traitor, then?

>Talia - (Hard to say - Galadriel - cool but world-wise)

I would say she would be Boromir, but she seems too weak to reach for
power.

>Lennier - Legolas
>Londo - Gimli

Theoden is my vote for Londo - the king of a diminished race, led astray
by the whisperings of Evil.

>Kosh - Gandalf (the Gray, who becomes the White, always speaking in
>riddles)

I fear he may resemble Saruman more closely.

>Sheridan - Eomer?

But who will you leave for Frodo?


>
>B^2 idea - Zathras as Gollum
>
>***********************************************************************
>Dave Stinson * Behold the Sword that was Broken!
>DaSt...@aol.com * (now hastily re-glued)
>DA...@procom.com * - Bored of the Rings
>***********************************************************************
>"Come, Athelas,help to the dying! In the King's hand a-lying!"
>

Of course, we should bear in mind that this is all completely
ridiculous; JMS may have enjoyed The_Lord_of_the_Rings, and even sent
his elves to the Sea, but I doubt he'd stoop to stealing its specific
characters.

--
Ligia Abuabara "What does it mean when you have the
lkab...@midway.uchicago.edu urge to buckle up, but you're not in a car?"
"It means your grip on reality is
getting all sweaty..."

Paul Heroy

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Nov 16, 1994, 10:56:33 AM11/16/94
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In article <199411160054...@relay2.geis.com>

strac...@genie.geis.com writes:

> The only problem with this discussion is that it begins on the
>assumption that there is *any* kind of one-to-one correlation between
>B5 characters and LoTR characters. There isn't. There are, however,
>many aspects that they share in that they both are moving toward creating
>myth of a sort;

That is *exactly* the reaction I had, and very strongly, while watching
"Revelations". The bits about an ancient evil, something dark returning
which hasn't been seen in 1000 years, I thought created a very strong
resonance, and I immediately said to myself "he's now definitely moved this
into the realm of future myth". We've had the prophecy and other fore-
shadowing, and the way it all resonates is starting to make me shiver with
delight. And to bring in part of another thread, I think I'm *very* glad
that this show isn't being done on Network TV; it's tough to imagine the
necessary elements of this myth structure being allowed to survive intact,
and true to the vision.

Thanks again for the vision, jms, and may your eyes be always unclouded.
(Un-shadowed? Heh...)

Paul Heroy -- he...@lsuvm.sncc.lsu.edu

Michael Kilgore

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Nov 17, 1994, 8:30:52 AM11/17/94
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(Well, foo. I had wanted to contribute to this topic, but it appears that
my 11/12 post didn't make it past local. Fwiw, here are some thoughts
again, though now only a gloss on jms' remarks; _extremely_ sorry if they
have been seen already.)
=====

In article <1994Nov11....@ll.mit.edu>, sgo...@ll.mit.edu (Sam
Gorton) wrote:
> I agree that B5 has echoes of Tolkien, but I see the parallels
> differently.

I have to agree, but for a much different reason: I doubt that such
similarities as are present are intentional echoes of Tolkien's work,
whether LOTR or the Silmarillion. I think the likenesses stem more from
the fact that each body draws on a shared cultural background.

Tolkien's principal story, of which LOTR is a small part, has many of its
roots in the Celtic story of struggle between light and dark, particularly
the Irish version as it appears in the Book of Invasions. Rendered into
its essence, this is a story of a race of magicians, with some ties to sky
and light, that enters a land and there contends with a second race of
magicians, tied to earth and darkness, for mastery. Our Heroes prevail,
but eventually fade from the visible world along with their foes, to be
supplanted by a successor race. This is very similar indeed to Tolkien's
story, especially when one notes that the two elder races are, in fact,
closely related.

(Bear with me: I'm getting there.) This is the Irish take on a distinctive
Indo-European myth, the struggle between a patriarchal family of sky gods
and a related family of matriarchal earth gods. I recently read a book
(I'll dig up the ref. if anyone wants it) that studied its forms in several
Indo-European societies: if you recall Norse mythology, you have seen one
version already. One of the author's points was that the story is a pretty
fundamental and widespread part of the IE legacy. Rather like Joseph
Campbell's world-wide hero's quest myth, it shows up all over the place;
and many other stories contain pieces of it.

So I'm not surprised that B5 and LOTR/Sil. have pieces that look a lot
alike. The IE epic of divine warfare is a great and protean story, and I
am sure that some form of it is one of the B5 sources of inspiration. But
the B5 characters fill their own distinctive roles in a universe that has
its own distinctive logic. If they seem to resemble Tolkien's characters,
that is because they embody forth some of the same themes that Tolkien
used. But JMS combines his themes in one way, Tolkien in another; and the
identical set of themes is not present in both works. So a character in
one story will never correspond very closely to any in the other; nor will
it even correspond to the same character(s) at different times in the
story.
--
Michael Kilgore (214)575-7426

Betty Boop

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Nov 17, 1994, 7:29:41 PM11/17/94
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Abuabara (lkab...@quads.uchicago.edu) wrote:
(snip)
: No way. The Narn are dwarves. Gotta be. Belligerent, powerful, stubborn,

: ugly... (sorry, ladies of the G'kar appreciation club: it's my humble
: opinion :)

>>>GASP<<< *How* can you say that about those
*beautiful* spots????????????? ;)

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The Boopster! (cl...@nevada.edu) | You know you've landed gear up when
"Marie"; The Magic Kingdom's | it takes full throttle to taxi!
Sing-Around Diva! | ...UNKNOWN
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