Things You Don't Expect to Hear

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Jms at B5

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Nov 26, 2002, 2:32:22 AM11/26/02
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So I was talking to Doug Netter this afternoon, who had in turn spoken with
Bruce Boxleitner earlier in the day about the year 2 DVD. In the course of
that conversation, Bruce mentioned something that Doug in turn mentioned to me.

To wit:

Bruce had been at the White House about a month ago, in the company of wife
Melissa Gilbert, president of the Screen Actors Guild, for a discussion with
some of the functionaries there concerning acting roles moving north of the
Canadian border.

As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting the
door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power
behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."

He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."

Then there's a pause, and he adds....

"And the President thinks so too."

Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
back on my feet by Spring, latest.

jms

(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2002 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)


John Hinge

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Nov 27, 2002, 11:43:27 AM11/27/02
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On 26 nov 2002 Jms at B5 was heard to say:


> As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of
> the meeting the door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the
> Republican Party and power behind the White House throne -- comes
> in.

> He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big
> science fiction fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science
> fiction television series *ever*."
>

I wonder, have he even *seen* B5 ?

> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."
>

we *are* talking about the pretzel swallower right ?

> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully
> expect to be back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>

They must have totally switched off their little minds while
watching.. I see so many parrallels to current events that
I'm kinda antsy, and I live all the way over here in Denmark
(where Amsterdam and Germany lies according to some New Yorkers
interviewed earlier today in the radio. Occasion being that
a Danish copseries won an International Emmy for best Dramaseries)

I have this impression of mr. Shrubbery as being the most scary
thing to have happened for some time, and the idea of him liking
B5 and still doing the things he does spins my mind..


--
John Hinge - shayera / .sPOOn.
On usenet I represent no one but myself.
"Buffy I love you...... Oh God No!" Spike, Buffy tVs
http://www.spoon.dvd-klub.dk

Ed Ryder

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Nov 27, 2002, 3:05:40 PM11/27/02
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You couldn't email the President and ask him to put pressure on TNT to film
the rest of Crusade without interference could you? :o)
(A mini series about the Telepath War would be nice too)

Ed.


"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com...

Svetislav Soldat

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Nov 28, 2002, 3:39:24 PM11/28/02
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George W. Bush loves B5??? Well this is actually funny...see they never
learn :)

Jan

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Nov 27, 2002, 8:21:44 AM11/27/02
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JMS wrote:

>He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science
>fiction
>fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series
>*ever*."
>
>Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
>"And the President thinks so too."
>
>Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
>back on my feet by Spring, latest.

Very cool!

Jan

Raven Woman

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Nov 27, 2002, 9:17:10 AM11/27/02
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>>>Then there's a pause, and he adds....

>>>>"And the President thinks so too."

Now THAT'S something to make the hair on one's toes curl!

Congratulations!!

Jenn


Jeremy Billones

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Nov 27, 2002, 9:24:37 AM11/27/02
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In article <20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com>,

Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
>back on my feet by Spring, latest.

But you're still not voting for him :)

--
Jeremy Billones "You have to learn *why* things work on a starship."

some guy

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Nov 27, 2002, 10:33:48 AM11/27/02
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All I can say is, WOW! <g>

Joseph DeMartino

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Nov 27, 2002, 10:04:36 AM11/27/02
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Gee, maybe Bush isn't as dumb as some people think he is. <g>

Joe

Brian Hulett

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Nov 27, 2002, 10:48:30 AM11/27/02
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"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com...
I knew I liked Dubbya for more than just being conservative Christian.
Careful though, JMS, before you know it some idiots will be referring to Al
Quaeda as the Shadows, and giving you credit for inspiring the pres to go
after the bad guys like Sheridan. I can hear it now in the Oval Office,
referring to allies dragging their feet: "Why don't they get off their
encouter-suited butts and DO something?!" LOL

--
---Brian Hulett, Publishing Editor
Fantasy Football Digest & Leagues
http://thewinningdrive.com
"Work well. Laugh hard. Play fair. Love completely."


Claudia Mastroianni

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Nov 27, 2002, 11:12:18 AM11/27/02
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Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
: He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction

: fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
: Then there's a pause, and he adds....
: "And the President thinks so too."

TIPS *was* based on Nightwatch!

But this is pretty cool. Reminds me of Arlo Guthrie's anniversary
intro to Alice's Restaurant, wherein it is revealed that the Nixons
had a copy of the record. And y'know, the song runs 18 minutes and
20 seconds long, just like a certain famous gap....

Claudia
--
"PLAYBOY SEEKS PICTURES FOR THE WOMEN OF ENRON."

And I thought "that can't be real" but I'm not particularly prone
to hallucinations and if I was, I'd like to think they wouldn't be
so damn boring. -- kjc

SamusekTDS

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Nov 28, 2002, 12:22:48 AM11/28/02
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Wow... If it were me, I'd be insanely beside myself and walking around
gloating and feeling happy, full and bloated with power and pride!

But since it's not me :-) and since I'm an annoying and cynical schmoe
(and not to mention-- hypocritical) I have to ask if that's really a
compliment? I've long considered B5 as "thinking person's Sci-Fi" and
GWB is many things but a--

Ahhh you know where I'm going with this one, don't you?

(Maybe it's 'cause I'm Canadian)
---
Sam.

Andrew Swallow

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Nov 27, 2002, 11:22:03 AM11/27/02
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"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com...

That is good news. There is sufficient politics in Babylon 5 that Karl Rove
may actually enjoy watching.

> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."
>

Nice, if suspicious, to hear. Lets hope that Bush takes Sheridan rather
than Clarke as his role model.

> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to
be
> back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>
> jms
>

Get well soon. <g>

Congratulations to all the producers and actors in Babylon 5.

Andrew Swallow

John Hinge

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Nov 27, 2002, 11:44:25 AM11/27/02
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On 26 nov 2002 Jms at B5 was heard to say:

> As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of
> the meeting the door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the
> Republican Party and power behind the White House throne -- comes
> in.

> He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big
> science fiction fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science
> fiction television series *ever*."
>

I wonder, have he even *seen* B5 ?

> Then there's a pause, and he adds....


>
> "And the President thinks so too."
>

we *are* talking about the pretzel swallower right ?

> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully


> expect to be back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>

Mac Breck

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Nov 27, 2002, 11:45:27 AM11/27/02
to

Daniel

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Nov 28, 2002, 4:06:22 AM11/28/02
to
Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
>
>
> "And the President thinks so too."

I thought he could only count to 4?

BoredGuy

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Nov 27, 2002, 1:30:09 PM11/27/02
to

"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com...

Don't believe you.. otherwise Bush would be hanging out in here as well :)

Truthfully, well done... if only some other high profile people come forward
liking B5 we can think of the endless campaign posters for them :)

(Hope your on your feet in time to do commentarys for Season 2 DVD's :D )

Boredguy

Rob

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Nov 27, 2002, 2:55:17 PM11/27/02
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That's great! Although Bush is more like President Clark, and Rove is a
good Morden, perhaps WB will be motivated to get off their blue-suited butts
and produce the rest of the DVD's expeditiously and with highest quality.
(But maybe I've inhaled too much dust).


****************************************
"Imagination is more important than knowledge, for knowledge is limited
while imagination embraces the entire world."
-Albert Einstein

"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com...

Joseph DeMartino

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Nov 27, 2002, 2:59:44 PM11/27/02
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So I guess this means we can expect a quick fix to the case design for
the next set, and that the prints for the 2nd through 5th season will be
free of blemishes? (I can just hear it now, "Damn! This set has two
copies of Disc 4, too. And two of the things are scratched! And what's
with those white blobs in 'Midnight on the Firing Line'? Who runs that
company? Get that guy on the phone!")

Better still, if they like the show that much and respect your writing,
maybe somebody can nudge the White House into expanding the current
corporate scandal hunt to include *Hollywood's* accounting practices.
Isn't anybody up there curious about an industry whose products have
never turned a profit in nearly a hundred years (according to their
accountants) but where everybody still makes money? Who knows? You
might even see some money from "B5" beyond your original writing and
producing fees, and steadily-declining writer's royalties. <g>

In the meantime I'll keep an eye out for news stories about an SEC
investigation of AOL/Time-Warner, which I expect to surface shortly
after the Prez gets his third DVD set with discs floating around loose
in it. <g>

Regards,

Joe

Steve

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Nov 27, 2002, 2:29:04 PM11/27/02
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Hi Joe,

> So I was talking to Doug Netter this afternoon, who had in turn spoken with
> Bruce Boxleitner earlier in the day about the year 2 DVD.

I'm already a happy man, and this is just the first sentence. I know
it's probably too early to read anything into this, but I'm hoping this
means that Bruce is up for a featurette or (even better) a commentary on
the second season box set.

> In the course of that conversation, Bruce mentioned something that Doug in
> turn mentioned to me.
>
> To wit:
>
> Bruce had been at the White House about a month ago, in the company of wife
> Melissa Gilbert, president of the Screen Actors Guild, for a discussion with
> some of the functionaries there concerning acting roles moving north of the
> Canadian border.
>
> As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting the
> door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power
> behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
> to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."
>
> He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
> fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."

That's just too damn cool! Now let's see if government backing can get
us a new series ;o)

> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."

I never though I'd see those two words together in a sentence without
some kind of negative qualifier in there as well, like "doesn't".

> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
> back on my feet by Spring, latest.

I've been thinking of taking up hibernation myself. Seems like a good
way to conserve money! :o)

-Steve

Anna Hayward, Alien Visitor

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Nov 28, 2002, 4:58:15 AM11/28/02
to
Hi,

>> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>>
>> "And the President thinks so too."
>>
>we *are* talking about the pretzel swallower right ?

I must admit, George Bush just went right up in my estimation :o) Here
in UK, he is usually caricatured as being a moron (getting names and
countries wrong all the time, making up long words in a vain attempt to
sound intelligent, accidentally invading countries etc.). But if he's a
B5 fan, he must have *some* redeeming features.

Maybe he could pass a law making it illegal for TV companies to stop B5
spin-off series after 13 episodes?

>> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully
>> expect to be back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>>
>They must have totally switched off their little minds while
>watching.. I see so many parrallels to current events that
>I'm kinda antsy, and I live all the way over here in Denmark

I felt exactly the same when I heard that.

>I have this impression of mr. Shrubbery as being the most scary
>thing to have happened for some time, and the idea of him liking
>B5 and still doing the things he does spins my mind..

I don't actually think the man is that scary. I think he's got some
scary people behind him, pulling the strings, but Mr. Rhododendron
himself is probably OK on a personal level - a bit like Londo was OK on
a personal level.

My biggest concern about him (apart from his desire to invade a
practically third-world country) is his anti-environmentalist politics.
How can we expect a man who made his fortune from oil to be objective in
such matters?
--
Anna Hayward, Alien Visitor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Boy, I've never seen that guy so down... or ever before"
- a janitor from Futurama
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

wendy

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Nov 27, 2002, 3:21:15 PM11/27/02
to
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote in message news:<20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com>...

>
>
> He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
> fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
>
> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."
>
> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
> back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>

Gosh, my father was right -- a stopped clock is still right twice a
day.

Now I want to know which character the president most identifies with
(and why do I fear it might be Londo?)


wendy

Edo Steinberg

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Nov 27, 2002, 3:43:18 PM11/27/02
to
First time I agree whole heartedly with Bush. Won't it be odd if it
turns out that he sees himself as the leader of the Army of Light
against the forces of Chaos (Radical Islam), and especially the
Shadows (Iraq and Bin Laden) and their minions the Drakh (the smaller
terror groups), and what inspired him wasn't only his conservative
religious convictions, but also and maybe mainly, Babylon 5?

"I wanna be the kind of leader JMS would write about, fellas. Oh, and
excuse me Condi and Rummy, I have to make time from the war plans to
watch some of the Season 1 DVD I just bought with taxpayers' money."

jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote in message news:<20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com>...

> As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting the
> door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power
> behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
> to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."
>
> He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
> fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
>
> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."

Here's a way to make you feel better - maybe it's just a ploy by Karl
Rove to get B5 fans to vote for Republicans (after all, a month ago,
when he said that to Bruce, was right before the midterm elections).

> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
> back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2002 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)

PS: Just an odd thought. If Bush wins the 2004 elections, he'll start
his term in Jan 2005. Bush 2005 - B5. Freaky.

John Behling

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Nov 27, 2002, 8:48:20 PM11/27/02
to
Well jeepers, Joe, that was pretty close to the *last* thing I ever
thought I'd read. When I first saw this, everything went black, but
once I regained consciousness, I had a thought, everyone needs a role
model and I guess George W. Bush must have just *loved* President
Clark.
Does this mean you get to be John Sheridan?

-John

Jim Royal

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Nov 27, 2002, 6:52:14 PM11/27/02
to
In article <20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com>, Jms at B5
<jms...@aol.com> wrote:

> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."

Well...

That certainly exaplins the Homeland Security Act and the Total
Information Awareness project. ** shudder **

Methinks he might be taking inspiration from Mr. Morden...

--
Jim Royal <jimr...@canada.com>
"Understanding is a three-edged sword"
http://JimRoyal.com

Pelzo63

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Nov 27, 2002, 8:11:20 PM11/27/02
to
jms wrote:

>He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
>fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
>
>Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
>"And the President thinks so too."

well, that answers the question that popped up here a few months ago.

...Chris, avoiding ANY political discussions for now.

Michael J Wise

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Nov 27, 2002, 9:54:09 PM11/27/02
to
Jms at B5 wrote:

> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect
> to be back on my feet by Spring, latest.

Oh, The Horror, The Horror....

(;-)

You see?
Even people you don't like, like your work.
Well, with the possible exception of some who live in Atlanta.

Aloha mai Nai`a!
--
"Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/
and Usenet Registration handy..."


Matthew Vincent

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Nov 29, 2002, 5:31:49 AM11/29/02
to
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:

>Bruce had been at the White House about a month ago, in the
>company of wife Melissa Gilbert, president of the Screen Actors
>Guild, for a discussion with some of the functionaries there
>concerning acting roles moving north of the Canadian border.
>

>As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the

>meeting the door [opens] and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the

>Republican Party and power behind the White House throne -- comes
>in. He says (paraphrased from memory) to Melissa, "I hope
>you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."
>

>He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a
>big science fiction fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best
>science fiction television series *ever*."
>
>Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
>"And the President thinks so too."

There are a whole bunch of different things I could conceivably say
here, but most of them are probably inappropriate... so perhaps it's
best if I keep my big mouth shut for once. ;)

Matthew

Febo

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Nov 29, 2002, 4:09:57 PM11/29/02
to
>First time I agree whole heartedly with Bush. Won't it be odd if it
>turns out that he sees himself as the leader of the Army of Light
>against the forces of Chaos (Radical Islam), and especially the
>Shadows (Iraq and Bin Laden) and their minions the Drakh (the smaller
>terror groups).

I always thought of Bush as a Drazi. remeber in tyhe 5th season, when the
Drazi decided that they wanted to randomly attack their neighbors everytime one
of their ships were attacked?

It's too bad the UN doesn't have a White Star Fleet, so that, like Sheridan did
with the Drazi, we can take Dubya up to a viewscreen and show him "Our forces
watching your forces."


Febo

Voxwoman

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Nov 30, 2002, 10:59:49 AM11/30/02
to

Michael J Wise wrote:

> Jms at B5 wrote:
>
>
>>Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect
>>to be back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>>
>
> Oh, The Horror, The Horror....
>
> (;-)
>
> You see?
> Even people you don't like, like your work.


And I just remembered that Charles Manson liked the works of Robert
Heinlein....

Zar

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Dec 1, 2002, 5:00:38 PM12/1/02
to
> "And the President thinks so too."


Just when I thought I had the universe figured out.
Owell, back to the drawing board.


Zar

Kathryn Huxtable

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Dec 1, 2002, 12:55:51 AM12/1/02
to
Voxwoman <voxw...@hotmail.com> writes:
> And I just remembered that Charles Manson liked the works of Robert
> Heinlein....

"Liked"? Isn't Manson still alive?

-K, quibbling again

Richard Tibbetts

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Nov 30, 2002, 7:36:59 AM11/30/02
to
In message <Pine.OSX.4.31.021127...@kapu.net>,
Michael J Wise <mjw...@kapu.net> wrote on Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:54:09
-1000:

[...]


> Even people you don't like, like your work.
> Well, with the possible exception of some who live in Atlanta.

They probably did like it, but just didn't think it was "commercial"
enough :-<
--
Richard Tibbetts
http://www.primepeace.ltd.uk/

Lisa Coulter

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Dec 1, 2002, 7:51:39 PM12/1/02
to
jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote in message news:<20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com>...
> So I was talking to Doug Netter this afternoon, who had in turn spoken with
> Bruce Boxleitner earlier in the day about the year 2 DVD. In the course of

> that conversation, Bruce mentioned something that Doug in turn mentioned to me.
>
> To wit:
>
> Bruce had been at the White House about a month ago, in the company of wife
> Melissa Gilbert, president of the Screen Actors Guild, for a discussion with
> some of the functionaries there concerning acting roles moving north of the
> Canadian border.
>
> As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting the
> door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power

> behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
> to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."
>
> He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
> fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
>
> Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
> "And the President thinks so too."
>
> Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
> back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>
> jms

That's really amazing!

See, guys, Bush may be better than some of you think. :)

Lisa Coulter

Lisa Coulter

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Dec 1, 2002, 7:55:45 PM12/1/02
to
sho...@macam.ac.il (Edo Steinberg) wrote in message news:<93c19000.0211...@posting.google.com>...

> First time I agree whole heartedly with Bush. Won't it be odd if it
> turns out that he sees himself as the leader of the Army of Light
> against the forces of Chaos (Radical Islam), and especially the
> Shadows (Iraq and Bin Laden) and their minions the Drakh (the smaller
> terror groups), and what inspired him wasn't only his conservative
> religious convictions, but also and maybe mainly, Babylon 5?
>
> "I wanna be the kind of leader JMS would write about, fellas. Oh, and
> excuse me Condi and Rummy, I have to make time from the war plans to
> watch some of the Season 1 DVD I just bought with taxpayers' money."
>
> jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote in message news:<20021126023222...@mb-fa.aol.com>...
> > As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting the
> > door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power
> > behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
> > to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."
> >
> > He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
> > fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."
> >
> > Then there's a pause, and he adds....
> >
> > "And the President thinks so too."
>
> Here's a way to make you feel better - maybe it's just a ploy by Karl
> Rove to get B5 fans to vote for Republicans (after all, a month ago,
> when he said that to Bruce, was right before the midterm elections).
>

Um - hate to tell you this, but some of us already do. Sorry to mess
with your prejudices... And BTW Jerry Doyle is definitely a
Republican, and from what I can tell Boxleitner is too - he supported
Doyle's run as a Republican for Congress.

Lisa Coulter

David Williams

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Dec 2, 2002, 1:02:17 AM12/2/02
to

"Kathryn Huxtable" <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote in message
news:n0nqb7...@kathrynhuxtable.org...

Yes, but it would be preferable to forget him, to let him rot in prison
until he dies, leaving him symbolically dead. Just like
"the-man-we-do-not-name" who killed John Lennon in order to become famous.

However, that won't happen. As with any sensationalist story, on slow news
days, the ratings-starved media love to drag out old Charley (and Squeaky,
et al.), dust him off, and do a re-hash of the whole affair. Sometimes it's
enough to make you chew your own foot off...

-David W.


Gunnar René Øie

unread,
Dec 2, 2002, 4:30:05 AM12/2/02
to
[ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]

[This is a re-post. The first post disappeared into a glitch in space-time
and might suddenly re-appear.]

If this conversation took place on "the West Wing", I would have believed
it a thousand times more than this "nobody sits" nonsense. (A real
show-stopper that one.)
The guy who spoke to Bruce was a Science Fition fan, but is GWB too? If B5
is the only science fiction the President has seen/read, and just a couple
of episodes, then his opinion about what is the best SF show carries no
more weight than his taste for broccoli does to farmers. On the other
hand, what he saw, he must have liked, so this might be interesting after
all. Let's hope he, and Karl Rove, got some positive influence from it.
Arthur C. Clarke: "Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns
and detective stories."

And now for some sillyness:
Perhaps time to do something like this with one of the Babylon 5
book/video covers and posters:
http://www.theforce.net/humor/pics/madmag.jpg

The Shadow Within? To dream in the city of sorrows? A call to arms?
Perhaps somebody with a lot of time and video equipment can even redo one
of the Babylon 5 introductions that have pictures of the cast, and replace
them in the same manner?

My only demand is that if somebody makes a "GWB is bad" version, they must
make sure a "GWB is good" version is made as well :-)

As much as I would have liked the electoral college abolished, and hoped
for Gore to win the election, this constant bickering about Bush
"stealing" the election is so infinately boringgggggggggggggagshfhfdh .
Oops! Fell asleep at keyboard. >:-P
It's good to be vigilant about your own government, but I think it's
a bit silly and/or premature to call Bush a new Clark. (But then I'm not
on the "recieving end" of things.)
Perhaps Bush is a Vorlon? You know, they attacked those who harbored the
Shadows. And talked funny.

--
Gunnar René Øie
Possessor of the new-forged Master Ring starting 2005. Fear!


Kathryn Huxtable

unread,
Dec 5, 2002, 10:51:34 PM12/5/02
to
"David Williams" <dwilli...@attbi.com> writes:
> "Kathryn Huxtable" <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote in message
> news:n0nqb7...@kathrynhuxtable.org...
> > Voxwoman <voxw...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > > And I just remembered that Charles Manson liked the works of
> > > Robert Heinlein....
> >
> > "Liked"? Isn't Manson still alive?
> >
> > -K, quibbling again
>
> Yes, but it would be preferable to forget him, to let him rot in prison
> until he dies, leaving him symbolically dead. Just like
> "the-man-we-do-not-name" who killed John Lennon in order to become famous.

I remember his name, unfortunately.

> However, that won't happen. As with any sensationalist story, on slow news
> days, the ratings-starved media love to drag out old Charley (and Squeaky,
> et al.), dust him off, and do a re-hash of the whole affair. Sometimes it's
> enough to make you chew your own foot off...

Don't do that.

-K

David Williams

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 12:54:51 AM12/6/02
to

"Kathryn Huxtable" <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote in message

> > et al.), dust him off, and do a re-hash of the whole affair. Sometimes


it's
> > enough to make you chew your own foot off...

>
> Don't do that.
>
> -K

Sigh
I may just have to if I put it in my mouth again. (see the Re: ATN: JMS -
Why no bloopers on DVDs ? thread...)

-David W.
(...going to bed early tonight)


Edo Steinberg

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 11:21:15 AM12/6/02
to
lisac...@hotmail.com (Lisa Coulter) wrote in message
> Um - hate to tell you this, but some of us already do. Sorry to mess
> with your prejudices... And BTW Jerry Doyle is definitely a
> Republican, and from what I can tell Boxleitner is too - he supported
> Doyle's run as a Republican for Congress.

For some reason, my first reply to this didn't get through, so here it
is again.

I never said there are no Republican B5 fans. B5 fandom, just like any
other group of people, has both Democrats and Republicans alike. And,
like any other group, it also has undecided voters.

Bye,
Edo

Aisling Willow Grey

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 2:52:49 PM12/6/02
to
>>Edo Steinberg wrote:


As well as independents who vote based on individual merit, or
principle, or any number of things rather than party affiliation. Hey,
I'd like to think I'm not the only of us here who voted for Ralph in 2000!

Although...now that I'm thinking about it, I'm a little concerned about
having voted Green. This could cause me some trouble with the Purples...

<ducking the NBS on my way out>

Aisling

flet...@post.queensu.ca

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 2:58:25 PM12/6/02
to
In a general mishmash of bytes, Edo wrote:
> I never said there are no Republican B5 fans. B5 fandom, just like any
> other group of people, has both Democrats and Republicans alike. And,
> like any other group, it also has undecided voters.
And those who don't even subscribe to that particular political party
style of system. You don't see democracts and republicans in many other
countries besides the US. :)

Mac Breck

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 3:17:24 PM12/6/02
to
"Aisling Willow Grey" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
news:3DF101A7...@fjordstone.com...

> >>Edo Steinberg wrote:
>
> > lisac...@hotmail.com (Lisa Coulter) wrote in message
> >
> >>Um - hate to tell you this, but some of us already do. Sorry to mess
> >>with your prejudices... And BTW Jerry Doyle is definitely a
> >>Republican, and from what I can tell Boxleitner is too - he supported
> >>Doyle's run as a Republican for Congress.
> >>
> >
> > For some reason, my first reply to this didn't get through, so here it
> > is again.
> >
> > I never said there are no Republican B5 fans. B5 fandom, just like any
> > other group of people, has both Democrats and Republicans alike. And,
> > like any other group, it also has undecided voters.<<
>
>
> As well as independents who vote based on individual merit, or
> principle, or any number of things rather than party affiliation.

And some Republicans and Democrats vote based on "individual merit, or
principle, or any number of things rather than party affiliation." in
general elections.

--
Mac Breck
http://www.scifi.com/crusade/
http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1164
http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1490
http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/2088
http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1455
http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/2416
http://www.scifi.com/brimstone/


Sam Black

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 5:44:47 PM12/6/02
to
> You don't see democracts and republicans in many other
> countries besides the US. :)

Probably because there aren't all that many democratic republics...

-------
- sam Sometimes the best solution to morale problems
is just to fire all of the unhappy people...


Sam Black

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 5:47:35 PM12/6/02
to
> And some Republicans and Democrats vote based on "individual merit, or
> principle, or any number of things rather than party affiliation." in
> general elections.

Alas, that number is all too small on both sides of the aisle. If only more
people did that...

Simo Aaltonen

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 7:18:46 AM12/6/02
to
Oh, great. Now people will go around saying B5 is the science fiction
show Bush likes. As an admirer of Mr. Straczynski's works, I feel dirty.

As Sheridan said, there is a difference between the office of the
president and the person holding that office. So while it's interesting
to learn that the current US president likes a quality show, it's
disturbing to learn that Bush, the individual holding the office of the
president, someone who represents such conservative, destructive
policies, enjoys such an antithetically (in comparison to him) *wise*
show as Babylon 5. I mean, if he's seen enough of the series to grasp the
overall story arc (which is, unfortunately, doubtful), one can only
question the extent to which he actually understood what he was
seeing--what the series was *saying*.

Congratulations on one hand, then, Joe, but concerned well-wishing on
the other. I'd hate to see B5, no matter via how remote a connection, be
associated in any permanent way with George Bush, Jr.

-Simo Sakari Aaltonen-
(simo...@cc.jyu.fi)


--

Gary007Seven

unread,
Dec 6, 2002, 1:25:35 AM12/6/02
to
>So I was talking to Doug Netter this afternoon, who had in turn spoken with
>Bruce Boxleitner earlier in the day about the year 2 DVD. In the course of
>that conversation, Bruce mentioned something that Doug in turn mentioned to
>me.
>
>To wit:
>
>Bruce had been at the White House about a month ago, in the company of wife
>Melissa Gilbert, president of the Screen Actors Guild, for a discussion with
>some of the functionaries there concerning acting roles moving north of the
>Canadian border.
>
>As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting
>the
>door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power
>behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
>to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."
>
>He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science
>fiction
>fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series
>*ever*."
>
>Then there's a pause, and he adds....
>
>"And the President thinks so too."
>
>Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
>back on my feet by Spring, latest.
>
> jms
>
>(jms...@aol.com)

ROTFL - LMAO!!!
You see, Joe --proof that you've got the guy (along with probably the
rest of them too) all wrong!

Ahh, that's truly Rich!! I wish I had seen this one a bit sooner --I needed the
laugh!


Edo Steinberg

unread,
Dec 7, 2002, 9:01:22 AM12/7/02
to
Sam Black <pen...@pixar.com> wrote in message news:<3DF1285F...@pixar.com>...

> > You don't see democracts and republicans in many other
> > countries besides the US. :)
>
> Probably because there aren't all that many democratic republics...
>

It doesn't have anything to do with that. Although there really aren't
that many democratic republics around the world, even those countries
who are democracies don't have parties called Democrats and
Republicans. The UK (not a republic, but still a democracy) has Labour
and Conservatives, as well as Liberal Democrats. Germany has Social
Democrats and Christian Democrats, Israel has Avoda (meaning Labour)
and Likud (meaning Unity) and so on and so on...

By the way, I was referring to US B5 fans (as a dual US-Israeli
citizen who has lived most his life in Israel, I should know other
countries don't have Dems and GOP) and I know there are more than just
R's and D's, also independents, greens, libertarians and an endless
list of other small parties. Just didn't want to waste the time of
those reading my message with a never-ending list of all the
possibilities.

I wonder if Ariel Sharon or Amram Mitzna are Babylon 5 fans. If an
Israeli politician will say something about B5, it might help me
decide who the hell to vote for. Right now all the parties are either
too hawkish or too dovish. Nothing in the middle.

Bye,
Edo


PS: I was kidding about voting for a politician who likes B5. In
Israel, unlike what happens a lot in the States, the vote is on the
issues, not on the looks, peronality and hobbies of the candidates.

Kathryn Huxtable

unread,
Dec 7, 2002, 10:52:51 AM12/7/02
to
sho...@macam.ac.il (Edo Steinberg) writes:
> PS: I was kidding about voting for a politician who likes B5. In
> Israel, unlike what happens a lot in the States, the vote is on the
> issues, not on the looks, peronality and hobbies of the candidates.

Just you wait. The US is in the process of exporting its system of
voting for candidates on the basis of anything *but* their stands on
issues to the rest of the world. ;-)

-K

Andrew Swallow

unread,
Dec 7, 2002, 4:44:04 PM12/7/02
to
"Kathryn Huxtable" <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote in message
news:4r9p3j...@kathrynhuxtable.org...

I suspect that the British are about to get over the problem of allowing
political spin to be confused with reality. The spin doctor's job ends
at the launch party. The policy woks have to start work on devising
sensible policies and writing viable laws. Government ministers have
to choose appropriate actions (frequently unpopular) and progress
chase them. The failure of the cover-up of high unemployment,
deteriorating government finances and policy misses will be noticed.

Andrew Swallow

Otto Martin

unread,
Dec 7, 2002, 7:51:18 AM12/7/02
to
Simo Aaltonen <simo...@itu.st.jyu.fi> wrote:
>Oh, great. Now people will go around saying B5 is the science fiction
>show Bush likes. As an admirer of Mr. Straczynski's works, I feel dirty.

And now I feel dirty because a Finnish person is saying such stupid
things... :-)

>it's disturbing to learn that Bush, the individual holding the office of
>the president, someone who represents such conservative, destructive
>policies, enjoys such an antithetically (in comparison to him) *wise*
>show as Babylon 5. I mean, if he's seen enough of the series to grasp
>the overall story arc (which is, unfortunately, doubtful), one can only
>question the extent to which he actually understood what he was
>seeing--what the series was *saying*.

We have very little information on what George W. Bush actually thinks
of the show, only that a person close to him said that he likes it.
This could mean he likes the pretty colorful battles in space.
This could mean he likes the fact that the bright-eyed and clearly
american-values-upholding humans "win".
This could even mean that he's actually followed the show closely,
understood most of what all happened and become a more enlightened
person. (Though from what I've seen of his public projection,
I'll admit I don't think it very likely... :-)
All in all, though, I don't really care what he thinks of the show.
If he likes it, good. Maybe he'll find somewhere in it a interesting
parallel with his own life and make better decisions because of it.
It doesn't make the show any less.

>I'd hate to see B5, no matter via how remote a connection, be
>associated in any permanent way with George Bush, Jr.

Geez, you really have a beef with him...


Otto Martin - actually, a passive extremist green myself... ^_^;
--
"Wow! My own personal Yoda!"
http://www.venisproductions.com/angelmoxie/archives/0/3/039.html


Sesamev

unread,
Dec 8, 2002, 12:51:03 PM12/8/02
to
> The policy woks have to start work on devising
>sensible policies and writing viable laws.

OK, first, I know you meant to type "wonks." This is not a spellcheck post.

Second, I love the idea of a policy wok. Intense heat applied to finely diced
components, with timing the most crucial element.

Nice.

Devoted to finding the beauty in error,
--Suzanne


Lisa Coulter

unread,
Dec 8, 2002, 7:14:34 PM12/8/02
to
Sam Black <pen...@pixar.com> wrote in message news:<3DF12907...@pixar.com>...

> > And some Republicans and Democrats vote based on "individual merit, or
> > principle, or any number of things rather than party affiliation." in
> > general elections.
>
> Alas, that number is all too small on both sides of the aisle. If only more
> people did that...
>

Agreed. It's interesting that Jerry Doyle as much as admits this in
his interview. He's very cynical about Party politics and politicians
in general for one aspiring to office. I can see how jms, though he
disagrees with Doyle poltically, might have supported him as an honest
man.

Personally, I wish there was more of a chance in the US for people of
many different persuasions to be active politically. The two party
system acts mainly to keep those parties and people in power, which
does not always help the citizenry as much as it could. But the way
our campaign laws and such are written, it's very hard for other
people to even get on the ballot in many states. I guess that may not
be true in all states, but I know for a fact it is where I live in
Florida.

Anyway, thank all of you for taking my somewhat snippy comment and
turning it into a very reasoned and interesting discussion. It
somewhat restores my faith in things...:)

Lisa Coulter

Aisling Willow Grey

unread,
Dec 5, 2002, 3:50:18 PM12/5/02
to
>>Kathryn Huxtable wrote:

> Voxwoman <voxw...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>And I just remembered that Charles Manson liked the works of Robert
>>Heinlein....
>>
>
> "Liked"? Isn't Manson still alive?<<


Yeah, but I think that when she used the past tense "liked," Jenn was
referring to the fact that along with most of us, Manson was pretty
disgusted with Heinlein after that posthumous nonsense got published.

;-)

Aisling

Raven Woman

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 8:50:26 AM12/9/02
to
>>>>Yeah, but I think that when she used the past tense "liked," Jenn was
referring to the fact that along with most of us, Manson was pretty
disgusted with Heinlein after that posthumous nonsense got published.

;-)

Aisling<<<<<<<<

Wasn't this Jenn who posted about Manson.

But somehow I wouldn't put liking Heinlein past him. Heinlein, urgh.
Jenn

Jan

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 8:45:38 AM12/9/02
to
Jenn wrote:

>But somehow I wouldn't put liking Heinlein past him. Heinlein, urgh.

Hrmph. *I* like Heinlein. A lot. A lot of his writings haven't aged well but
it was still great stuff with lively characters.

Jan

Raven Woman

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 9:33:04 AM12/9/02
to
>>>>>Hrmph. *I* like Heinlein. A lot. A lot of his writings haven't aged
well but
it was still great stuff with lively characters.

Jan<<<<<

Hm, well, there's no arguing with taste. I could give you plenty ammo,
though, by confessing to a secret passion for both Lexx and Red Dwarf....

:)

Seriously, though, it does seem to me that more written sci-fi aims
specifically at a "teen-guy" audience (as opposed to a "male" audience) in
that it features REALLY BAD guys who should be killed, REALLY HOT babes who
wanna be scr-wed. Heinlein just bothers me more cos he combines those
elements w/ a higher intellectual level, which makes him more dangerous,
IMHO. Just like CS Lewis, he's so *good* at what he does that it renders
his opinions all the more dangerous. (You know you're still lurking, J.
Kennedy, here's some bait, come play, come play--)

I do like some of Heinlein's "general" observations, though. I used to have
one about the power of language taped to my cubicle; it was from the novel
where Earth is ruled by the religious fanatics and the protagonists are
discussing how propaganda works. Can't think of the title, alas.

Jenn

Jan

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 9:23:57 AM12/9/02
to
Raven Woman wrote:

>Hm, well, there's no arguing with taste. I could give you plenty ammo,
>though, by confessing to a secret passion for both Lexx and Red Dwarf....

ROFL, we all have our little vices, don't we?

>Heinlein just bothers me more cos he combines those
>elements w/ a higher intellectual level, which makes him more dangerous,
>IMHO.

Yeah, that's a point. And in fact, you're probably right on the money because
a good many of his books *were* written for juveniles. They just aren't marked
that way. There were certain things he simply wasn't allowed to do, due to the
targeted market. Not only publishing company ninny's got to p..lay in his pool,
library sorts did too.

>I do like some of Heinlein's "general" observations, though. I used to have
>one about the power of language taped to my cubicle; it was from the novel
>where Earth is ruled by the religious fanatics and the protagonists are
>discussing how propaganda works. Can't think of the title, alas.

I can't either but it was a good 'coming of age' story as I recall. And yes,
Heinlein always gave me the impression that he respected and loved language.

I guess I have a knack for skating over the stuff that doesn't work for me to
concentrate on the stuff that does and the rest of the story.

Jan

Simo Aaltonen

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 6:08:46 AM12/9/02
to
In article <assqs6$q2e$1...@news.cc.tut.fi>, Otto Martin wrote:
> And now I feel dirty because a Finnish person is saying such stupid
> things... :-)

I wrote what I felt. If I hadn't, I'd have been lying.

That I am Finnish is part of my character, but it is not a descriptor of
my character, so if Finnishness is a descriptor of *your* character, you
have no reason to feel dirty because only a racist would lump us together
in the same category. I am no more representative of Finns in general
than Bush is representative of Americans in general. (Which should go
without saying, but there it is.)

-Simo Sakari Aaltonen-
(simo...@cc.jyu.fi)


Simo Aaltonen

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 8:20:05 AM12/9/02
to
In article <assqs6$q2e$1...@news.cc.tut.fi>, Otto Martin wrote:
> Geez, you really have a beef with him...

If anyone is still wondering why someone would have a problem with Bush
being president of the United States, they need only read the December 9,
2002 issue of Newsweek.

-Simo Sakari Aaltonen-
(simo...@cc.jyu.fi)


Simo Aaltonen

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 8:34:38 AM12/9/02
to
In article <assqs6$q2e$1...@news.cc.tut.fi>, Otto Martin wrote:
> And now I feel dirty because a Finnish person is saying such stupid
> things... :-)

Sorry for replying to your message in three parts (one of which featured
what you might call some "fuzzy logic" due to impaired cognitive
functioning brought on by extremely recent loss of a beloved creature),
but it seems my brain is working piece-meal today.

What is this need Finns have of touting their Finnishness--bringing it up
at every possible turn? I can understand when it's somehow relevant to
the discussion, but not when it's like, "Kiss me, I'm Finnish."
(Okay, *that* would be mildly amusing, in a stale kind of way, but
usually it's brought up like it should somehow bring about instant
respect or something. Which is embarrassing, to say the least. Not from
a countryman's point of view, but from that of a fellow human being.)

It's little different from saying, "I'm white, by the way."

-Simo Sakari Aaltonen-
(simo...@cc.jyu.fi)


Robert Perkins

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 6:16:00 PM12/9/02
to
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:33:04 -0500, "Raven Woman"
<Hraf...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I used to have
>one about the power of language taped to my cubicle; it was from the novel
>where Earth is ruled by the religious fanatics and the protagonists are
>discussing how propaganda works. Can't think of the title, alas.

It was "If This Goes On..." in the _Revolt in 2100_ collection.

Rob, a Heinlein fan, for the most part

Voxwoman

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 6:46:34 PM12/9/02
to

Jan wrote:

> Raven Woman wrote:
>
>
>>Hm, well, there's no arguing with taste. I could give you plenty ammo,
>>though, by confessing to a secret passion for both Lexx and Red Dwarf....
>>
>
> ROFL, we all have our little vices, don't we?
>
>
>>Heinlein just bothers me more cos he combines those
>>elements w/ a higher intellectual level, which makes him more dangerous,
>>IMHO.
>>
>
> Yeah, that's a point. And in fact, you're probably right on the money because
> a good many of his books *were* written for juveniles. They just aren't marked
> that way. There were certain things he simply wasn't allowed to do, due to the
> targeted market. Not only publishing company ninny's got to p..lay in his pool,
> library sorts did too.
>
>
>>I do like some of Heinlein's "general" observations, though. I used to have
>>one about the power of language taped to my cubicle; it was from the novel
>>where Earth is ruled by the religious fanatics and the protagonists are
>>discussing how propaganda works. Can't think of the title, alas.


could be "Job: A comedy of errors" or maybe "farnam's freehold"? or even
"6th column"... I don't remember now, either.


>>
>
> I can't either but it was a good 'coming of age' story as I recall. And yes,
> Heinlein always gave me the impression that he respected and loved language.
>
> I guess I have a knack for skating over the stuff that doesn't work for me to
> concentrate on the stuff that does and the rest of the story.
>
> Jan
>
>

My favorite RAH quote is: "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh."

It's managed to keep me out of many arguments over who's God is better...

Voxwoman (who brought up the subject in the first place)


Robert Perkins

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 6:22:21 PM12/9/02
to
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:08:46 +0000 (UTC), simo...@itu.st.jyu.fi (Simo
Aaltonen) wrote:

>I am no more representative of Finns in general
>than Bush is representative of Americans in general. (Which should go
>without saying, but there it is.)

Bush's manner and attitudes actually seem pretty much dead-on
"flyover" America, with the exception of a few population centers, in
my experience.

Rob


Jan

unread,
Dec 9, 2002, 7:57:24 PM12/9/02