JMS: Silver Surfer back in development?
Jan
I noticed a few weeks ago that IMDB had changed Silver Surfer's status from
'Unknown' to being back in development:
Project Notes
All dates refer to when the comment was entered
18 June 2007 Optioned Property
30 June 2007 Script
1 July 2008 Development Unknown
8 October 2009 Script
In active development at Fox.
And this morning there this article was linked to on another forum:
http://www.examiner.com/x-18039-Capital-District-Movies-Examiner~y2009m10d8-Gary-Ross-to-rewrite-direct-SpiderMan-spinoff-Venom
..so I wondered if you've heard anything new that you can share?
Thanks,
Jan
--
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased; thus do we refute entropy
--Spider Robinson
Check out http://wedreamforjeanne.blogspot.com/ for ways to help Jeanne Robinson
fight cancer.
jms...@aol.com
> JMS:
>
> I noticed a few weeks ago that IMDB had changed Silver Surfer's status from
> 'Unknown' to being back in development:
>
> Project Notes
> All dates refer to when the comment was entered
> 18 June 2007 Optioned Property
>
> 30 June 2007 Script
>
> 1 July 2008 Development Unknown
>
> 8 October 2009 Script
> In active development at Fox.
>
>
> ..so I wondered if you've heard anything new that you can share?
>
Nope. My guess is that since my draft was closely tied into FF2,
which is ancient now, they've struck off in a different direction.
jms
Jan
More perfect 'Union' for Disney
Bruckheimer taps Straczynski to adapt vidgame
By MARC GRASER
The 'Shattered Union' vidgame posits an American in which Washington, D.C., has
been destroyed, and civil war rages.
Jerry Bruckheimer is plotting a civil war at Disney, tapping J. Michael
Straczynski to adapt 2K Games' "Shattered Union."
In the game, states secede from the U.S. and form their own governments that
wage a civil war against each other after Washington, D.C., is wiped out in a
nuclear blast and chaos ravages the nation. Players control one of the warring
group of states -- the California Commonwealth, Republic of Texas and New
England Alliance are three of the six -- or a European peacekeeping unit sent to
reunify America.
(Follow link for complete article)
Doug Freyburger
>
> In the game, states secede from the U.S. and form their own governments that
> wage a civil war against each other after Washington, D.C., is wiped out in a
> nuclear blast and chaos ravages the nation. Players control one of the warring
> group of states -- the California Commonwealth, Republic of Texas and New
> England Alliance are three of the six -- or a European peacekeeping unit sent to
> reunify America.
Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
movie of similar ilk will rule.
John W. Kennedy
"Jericho" has bugger-all to do with it. The idea's been used in legit.
SF, comics, and movies since the 1920s. At the latest.
Josh Hill
<dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
>movie of similar ilk will rule.
Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
A. Depressing.
B. Ludicrously unfair to the country. North Korea et al are innocent.
We destroy ourselves, and then commit genocide against countries that
didn't attack us. The series could have been made by the Al Qaeda
propaganda department.
C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
little more than a bad hair day.
D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
--
Josh
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man."
- George Bernard Shaw
Khendon
news:87uee5d0hepbkr2mc...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:01:52 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
>>movie of similar ilk will rule.
>
> Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
>
> A. Depressing.
>
> B. Ludicrously unfair to the country. North Korea et al are innocent.
> We destroy ourselves, and then commit genocide against countries that
> didn't attack us. The series could have been made by the Al Qaeda
> propaganda department.
>
> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
> little more than a bad hair day.
>
> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
> --
> Josh
Actually (and unfortunately) I'd have to disagree with you.
This country is so polarized (especially politically) that a catastrophic
event - especially one that takes out the majority of our central
government - would ignite a power scramble the likes that we've probably
never seen.
You'd have many sides attempting to claim the mantle of "leadership" - each
with there own "vision" on how to "rebuild" (in their own ideological
design, of course) - and that would give plenty of excuses for parts of this
country to say "we've got ours, screw you, we're going our own way".
Since destroying Washington D.C. has been the source of an old joke for so
long...
"What do you call several thousand dead politicians? A good start".
Wes Struebing
>http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118010438.html?categoryid=13&cs=1
>
>More perfect 'Union' for Disney
>Bruckheimer taps Straczynski to adapt vidgame
>By MARC GRASER
>
>The 'Shattered Union' vidgame posits an American in which Washington, D.C., has
>been destroyed, and civil war rages.
>
>Jerry Bruckheimer is plotting a civil war at Disney, tapping J. Michael
>Straczynski to adapt 2K Games' "Shattered Union."
>
>In the game, states secede from the U.S. and form their own governments that
>wage a civil war against each other after Washington, D.C., is wiped out in a
>nuclear blast and chaos ravages the nation. Players control one of the warring
>group of states -- the California Commonwealth, Republic of Texas and New
>England Alliance are three of the six -- or a European peacekeeping unit sent to
>reunify America.
>
>(Follow link for complete article)
Interesting! I don't game, but this sounds, err, intriguing.
(wouldn't be a first, either, would it? I'm thinking of "Wing
Commander")
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
Matt Ion
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:01:52 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
>> movie of similar ilk will rule.
>
> Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
Did you actually WATCH it?
> B. Ludicrously unfair to the country. North Korea et al are innocent.
> We destroy ourselves, and then commit genocide against countries that
> didn't attack us. The series could have been made by the Al Qaeda
> propaganda department.
I don't recall anyone blaming North Korea, or anyone else specifically.
As I recall, there was a lot of speculation that China was involved
earlier on, but for all of the series that I recall, all anyone really
had was speculation, because they were cut off from any solid
information on what had happened.
> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
> little more than a bad hair day.
It wasn't a "nuclear war" though, at least not in the classic "bomb the
shit out of the other side" style. It was a dozen or so devices,
detonated on or under the ground (not air bursts, as would be used for
maximum destruction in a proper military strike), in select major
cities, by what we're led to believe are home-grown terrorists.
> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
We don't even know that the whole nation did. All we ever see is a
small corner of Kansas and warring towns there. Everything from outside
of that is hearsay.
Josh Hill
wrote:
>On 27/10/2009 3:56 PM, Josh Hill wrote:
>> Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
>
>Did you actually WATCH it?
Unfortunately, yes, into the first few episodes of I guess the second
season when I gave up in disgust.
>
>> B. Ludicrously unfair to the country. North Korea et al are innocent.
>> We destroy ourselves, and then commit genocide against countries that
>> didn't attack us. The series could have been made by the Al Qaeda
>> propaganda department.
>
>I don't recall anyone blaming North Korea, or anyone else specifically.
> As I recall, there was a lot of speculation that China was involved
>earlier on, but for all of the series that I recall, all anyone really
>had was speculation, because they were cut off from any solid
>information on what had happened.
As I recall, they announced that North Korea was responsible (and
Iran?) and nuked it.
>> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
>> little more than a bad hair day.
>
>It wasn't a "nuclear war" though, at least not in the classic "bomb the
>shit out of the other side" style. It was a dozen or so devices,
>detonated on or under the ground (not air bursts, as would be used for
>maximum destruction in a proper military strike), in select major
>cities, by what we're led to believe are home-grown terrorists.
Still a whitewash, I think. The misery would be incalculable.
>> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
>> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
>We don't even know that the whole nation did. All we ever see is a
>small corner of Kansas and warring towns there. Everything from outside
>of that is hearsay.
--
Giovanni Wassen
> Jan quoted:
>>
>> In the game, states secede from the U.S. and form their own
>> governments that wage a civil war against each other after
>> Washington, D.C., is wiped out in a nuclear blast and chaos ravages
>> the nation. Players control one of the warring group of states -- the
>> California Commonwealth, Republic of Texas and New England Alliance
>> are three of the six -- or a European peacekeeping unit sent to
>> reunify America.
>
> Nice summary of the TV series Jericho.
So you guess this will suck too?
--
Gio
http://www.watkijkikoptv.info
http://myanimelist.net/profile/extatix
http://watkijkikoptv.info/animeblog
Giovanni Wassen
> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
> little more than a bad hair day.
I loved it when they started bbq'ing right afther the attack.
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
> Jerry Bruckheimer is plotting a civil war at Disney, tapping J. Michael
> Straczynski to adapt 2K Games' "Shattered Union."
I will never understand the need for these people to base movies on
games. Over and over and over again it has been tried and rarely does
it ever produce something that rises any higher than the steam from a
freshly laid pile of diarrhea.
--
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
Promote someone else.
Josh Hill
<ext...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I loved it when they started bbq'ing right afther the attack.
They didn't even have to use a fire. :-)
Josh Hill
Schultz" <star...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 27 Oct 2009 11:38:34 -0700, Jan wrote:
>
>> Jerry Bruckheimer is plotting a civil war at Disney, tapping J. Michael
>> Straczynski to adapt 2K Games' "Shattered Union."
>
>I will never understand the need for these people to base movies on
>games. Over and over and over again it has been tried and rarely does
>it ever produce something that rises any higher than the steam from a
>freshly laid pile of diarrhea.
LOL, true, although I'm guessing that if anyone can do it, JMS can. I
mean, he did a great job with Jeremiah, based on a similar topic . . .
Christian Hennecke
[ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Some special characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:56:25 UTC, Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
> >movie of similar ilk will rule.
>
> Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
>
> A. Depressing.
I found it to be refreshingly realistic in many aspects. Like "Lost."
And yes, the behavior of people under extreme circumstances is not
pretty.
> B. Ludicrously unfair to the country. North Korea et al are innocent.
> We destroy ourselves, and then commit genocide against countries that
> didn't attack us. The series could have been made by the Al Qaeda
> propaganda department.
Again, that's rather realistic. There are enough in the USA (and other
countries, too) who would just lash out blindly and try to kill
somebody. Foolishness and fear...
> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
> little more than a bad hair day.
You do have a point here. However, it wasn't fullscale nuclear war,
"just" some strategically placed, limited detonations to achieve the
desired effect.
> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
Un-American? Sheesh, either you don't really have *any* clue of what
humans will do if their "containment" is removed, or you just don't want
to see it. Look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurrican (I
think it was Catherine?) and in Asia after the tsunami for a small
taste. Plundering, raping, murder, etc. galore. Look at the atrocities
committed during any war. The lacquer of civilization is very thin.
Anywhere. Shows like Lost, Jericho, and the new Battlestar Galactica
have shoved it into people's faces.
--
"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen." - W.H. Auden
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
> LOL, true, although I'm guessing that if anyone can do it, JMS can. I
> mean, he did a great job with Jeremiah, based on a similar topic . . .
I'll certainly watch, but I don't believe JMS needs a game license
from which to launch a good story. :-)
Matt Ion
>> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
>> little more than a bad hair day.
>
> You do have a point here. However, it wasn't fullscale nuclear war,
> "just" some strategically placed, limited detonations to achieve the
> desired effect.
...and the people we see were never directly exposed to any nuclear
blast. They see one in the distance, they see some scattered after
effects... one early episode, they hide out from what they EXPECT will
be radiation-laden rain, but never know for sure that it was. Most of
the news they receive on the after-effects is hearsay. Other than a lot
of confusion and panic, I don't know what other sort of "misery" one
would expect to see?
>> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
>> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
> Un-American? Sheesh, either you don't really have *any* clue of what
> humans will do if their "containment" is removed, or you just don't want
> to see it. Look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurrican (I
> think it was Catherine?) and in Asia after the tsunami for a small
> taste. Plundering, raping, murder, etc. galore. Look at the atrocities
> committed during any war. The lacquer of civilization is very thin.
> Anywhere. Shows like Lost, Jericho, and the new Battlestar Galactica
> have shoved it into people's faces.
Or Jeremiah, for that matter...
Kathryn Huxtable
> [ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-15" character set. ]
> [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> [ Some special characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:56:25 UTC, Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
[...]
>> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
>> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
> Un-American? Sheesh, either you don't really have *any* clue of what
> humans will do if their "containment" is removed, or you just don't want
> to see it. Look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurrican (I
> think it was Catherine?) and in Asia after the tsunami for a small
> taste. Plundering, raping, murder, etc. galore. Look at the atrocities
> committed during any war. The lacquer of civilization is very thin.
> Anywhere. Shows like Lost, Jericho, and the new Battlestar Galactica
> have shoved it into people's faces.
Well, a lot of the stuff that supposedly went on during the Katrina
aftermath in New Orleans turned out to have not happened.
-K
Josh Hill
<christian...@os2voice.org> wrote:
>Again, that's rather realistic. There are enough in the USA (and other
>countries, too) who would just lash out blindly and try to kill
>somebody. Foolishness and fear...
I just can't believe that there are many people who would nuke their
own country. How often does something like that happen? The worst I
see is the occasional bombing or assassination, and most of those
bombings conducted by extremist organizations in the Middle East, not
here. The chance of keeping a conspiracy of the size necessary to get
hold of American nuclear weapons is nil, because the vast majority of
people who were approached about something like that would go right to
the FBI, which would do a hell of a lot more than stick in an
undercover agent or two. Besides which, the sort of people who could
do something like that are too stupid or crazy to pull it off.
>> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
>> little more than a bad hair day.
>
>You do have a point here. However, it wasn't fullscale nuclear war,
>"just" some strategically placed, limited detonations to achieve the
>desired effect.
The thing is, you have a plume of death that extends something like 75
miles from ground zero -- and that's rapid death. And then you have
all the people who survived -- barely. And they're on the road,
looking for food, suffering from radiation sickness. The entire
distribution network is down, the government is crippled, electronic
devices are gone. And the country has, IIRC, a two week supply of
food. Next year's crop? The farmer is dependent on seed stock from a
company half a continent away. The rugged independence thing just
doesn't work very well anymore.
>> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
>> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
>Un-American? Sheesh, either you don't really have *any* clue of what
>humans will do if their "containment" is removed, or you just don't want
>to see it. Look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurrican (I
>think it was Catherine?) and in Asia after the tsunami for a small
>taste. Plundering, raping, murder, etc. galore. Look at the atrocities
>committed during any war. The lacquer of civilization is very thin.
>Anywhere. Shows like Lost, Jericho, and the new Battlestar Galactica
>have shoved it into people's faces.
I can also look at what happened during say the San Francisco
earthquake, when the Army moved in and established martial law. And
New Orleans was secured, action was just delayed because of Bush's
bungling (no idea what was going on at first, then refused to
federalize the Guard and send in troops). Sure, you'd have some
looting, but the selfishness and lack of organization in this show
just didn't strike me as realistic.
Kurt Ullman
Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can also look at what happened during say the San Francisco
> earthquake, when the Army moved in and established martial law. And
> New Orleans was secured, action was just delayed because of Bush's
> bungling (no idea what was going on at first, then refused to
> federalize the Guard and send in troops).
Of course aided by the bungling of the Governor and Mayor. Most
of the major problems were secondary to the really bad decisions made by
the locals during the initial stages, compounded by some relatively dumb
decisions by the Feds. That was a Charlie Frank from the getgo.
--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"
Doug Freyburger
>
> I just can't believe that there are many people who would nuke their
> own country. How often does something like that happen? The worst I
> see is the occasional bombing or assassination, and most of those
> bombings conducted by extremist organizations in the Middle East, not
> here.
The Oklahoma City bombing was non-nuked and by a citizen. His claims
about his motivations say he did not want the blast to extend outside of
the federal building zone but he is crazy so who can tell if he would
have used a nuke if he'd had one.
> The chance of keeping a conspiracy of the size necessary to get
> hold of American nuclear weapons is nil, because the vast majority of
> people who were approached about something like that would go right to
> the FBI, which would do a hell of a lot more than stick in an
> undercover agent or two. Besides which, the sort of people who could
> do something like that are too stupid or crazy to pull it off.
Something strange in the wording of the last sentence. Folks crazy
enough to do it are too crazy to be able to pull it off. Folks abel to
pull it off are too sane to go it. Was that the wording you wanted?
> The thing is, you have a plume of death that extends something like 75
> miles from ground zero -- and that's rapid death. And then you have
> all the people who survived -- barely. And they're on the road,
> looking for food, suffering from radiation sickness. The entire
> distribution network is down, the government is crippled, electronic
> devices are gone. And the country has, IIRC, a two week supply of
> food. Next year's crop? The farmer is dependent on seed stock from a
> company half a continent away. The rugged independence thing just
> doesn't work very well anymore.
The mass starvation in the first year of the Jericho first season was
the part that was seen in the least damaged part of the country. The
centers of recovery didn't match the places with the best resources but
at least some attempt was made in that direction.
The next year a far worse mass starvation would happen after the crops
did not come in because they weren't planted. Many regions of the world
currently depend on US grown food so the starvation would be world wide
in well under a year.
> I can also look at what happened during say the San Francisco
> earthquake, when the Army moved in and established martial law.
More rapid recovery than could happen after a wider fall.
> And
> New Orleans was secured, action was just delayed because of Bush's
> bungling (no idea what was going on at first, then refused to
> federalize the Guard and send in troops).
Inserting Bush's name in this makes the statement objectively false in a
way that's trivial to confirm. In the US the President has the power
to deploy troops outside of the borders, but no power to deploy them
inside the US. A state *must* request aid from any military other than
its own National Guard units. Military relief units were lined up on
highways leading to New Orleans waiting for permission from the
governor.
Fast or slow, Bush's reaction was more than fast enough because it was
faster than the governor's. Consider that once the idiot governor
finally realized what he was doing he not only granted permission to the
US military but also to the Mexican military. The Texas governor
immediately granted passage and for the first time in a century a
Mexican military unit crossed into the US. Pretty cool having disaster
aid running the other direction than usual.
Blaming Bush for not having US military troops on hand to help is as
biased and easy to figure out as blaming Bush for the hurricane itself.
Oh wait, what group am I posting to? It's Clark's fault!
> Sure, you'd have some
> looting, but the selfishness and lack of organization in this show
> just didn't strike me as realistic.
Right. I liked Jericho in comparison to the other shows on a couple of
years ago. Not in comparison to the shows Joe has produced. Different
field of competition.
Christophe Bachmann
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:22:46 +0000 (UTC), "Christian Hennecke"
> <christian...@os2voice.org> wrote:
>
>> Again, that's rather realistic. There are enough in the USA (and other
>> countries, too) who would just lash out blindly and try to kill
>> somebody. Foolishness and fear...
>
> I just can't believe that there are many people who would nuke their
> own country. How often does something like that happen? The worst I
> see is the occasional bombing or assassination, and most of those
> bombings conducted by extremist organizations in the Middle East, not
> here.
Like Oklahoma City, Timothy McVeigh ;
Like the IRA, the ETA, Aum Shinrikyō, the Sendero Luminoso...
None of these got their hands on nukes, but one at least unleashed a WDM
in the Tokyo subway, and none of these are middle-eastern. Hatred and
desire to unleash destruction is quite equally distributed...
> The chance of keeping a conspiracy of the size necessary to get
> hold of American nuclear weapons is nil, because the vast majority of
> people who were approached about something like that would go right to
> the FBI, which would do a hell of a lot more than stick in an
> undercover agent or two. Besides which, the sort of people who could
> do something like that are too stupid or crazy to pull it off.
>
The chance of getting one's hands on U.S. nukes is indeed nil, but
getting hold of some obsolescent soviet warheads and smuggling them into
the U.S., while difficult, could be pulled off by a determined enough
group. In order to raise a lot of hell you don't need a multi-megaton
blast, a bare Davy Crockett would be far enough and a lot of 'dud'
waheads can still pull that off very well.
And that's discounting the even easier 'dirty bomb' and these are
insanely simple to do, just look up Goiânia ...
>>> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
>>> little more than a bad hair day.
>> You do have a point here. However, it wasn't fullscale nuclear war,
>> "just" some strategically placed, limited detonations to achieve the
>> desired effect.
>
> The thing is, you have a plume of death that extends something like 75
> miles from ground zero -- and that's rapid death.
How big a warhead are you writing about... You can use
http://surviveanukeattack.com/ to look up fall-out calculators for the
zones, and with small yields 1-10 kT you don't get a 75 miles plume...
> And then you have
> all the people who survived -- barely. And they're on the road,
> looking for food, suffering from radiation sickness. The entire
> distribution network is down, the government is crippled, electronic
> devices are gone. And the country has, IIRC, a two week supply of
> food. Next year's crop? The farmer is dependent on seed stock from a
> company half a continent away. The rugged independence thing just
> doesn't work very well anymore.
>
That is if you think total thermonuclear war and MAD doctrine, but if
you think terrorists getting their hands on a few small warheads and
getting suboptimal yield because they are not able to pull off a clean
fire, you can get the centre of Washington obliterated without even
impacting Baltimore or Annapolis and then you have all the
infrastructure needed to take care of a few tens of thousand casualties.
Think Bhopal or Chernobyl, not WW3.
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France
Jeffrey Kaplan
> I just can't believe that there are many people who would nuke their
> own country. How often does something like that happen? The worst I
> see is the occasional bombing or assassination, and most of those
> bombings conducted by extremist organizations in the Middle East, not
> here. The chance of keeping a conspiracy of the size necessary to get
Timothy McVeigh. Do you think he wouldn't have used a small nuke if he
could have gotten one?
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"The next time you want a revelation, could you possibly find a way
that isn't quite so uncomfortable?" (Marcus Cole, B5 "Grey 17 is
Missing")
Amy Guskin
(in article <hcaaqp$n35$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> Josh Hill wrote:
>
>> And
>> New Orleans was secured, action was just delayed because of Bush's
>> bungling (no idea what was going on at first, then refused to
>> federalize the Guard and send in troops).
>
> Inserting Bush's name in this makes the statement objectively false in a
> way that's trivial to confirm. In the US the President has the power
> to deploy troops outside of the borders, but no power to deploy them
> inside the US. A state *must* request aid from any military other than
> its own National Guard units. Military relief units were lined up on
> highways leading to New Orleans waiting for permission from the
> governor.
>
> Fast or slow, Bush's reaction was more than fast enough because it was
> faster than the governor's. Consider that once the idiot governor
> finally realized what he was doing he not only <<
One would have to take your assessment of this with a grain of salt, as the
quality of your information is suspect based on your calling the Governor of
Louisiana at the time of Katrina a "he." :-)
Amy
--
Ten Thousand Questions
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com
Duggy
<starf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:31:38 -0400, Josh Hill wrote:
> > LOL, true, although I'm guessing that if anyone can do it, JMS can. I
> > mean, he did a great job with Jeremiah, based on a similar topic . . .
>
> I'll certainly watch, but I don't believe JMS needs a game license
> from which to launch a good story. :-)
I don't think that JMS needs a French comic book or a book about
Zombies to launch a good story, but he has in the past.
===
= DUG.
===
voxwoman
<christian.henne...@os2voice.org> wrote:
> [ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-15" character set. ]
> [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> [ Some special characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>
> wrote:
>
> > >Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
> > >movie of similar ilk will rule.
>
> > Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
>
> > A. Depressing.
>
> I found it to be refreshingly realistic in many aspects. Like "Lost."
> And yes, the behavior of people under extreme circumstances is not
> pretty.
That's what the reimagining of BSG was for me :p
I had no desire to watch Jerico - I was burned by "Red Dawn" and got
my fill of post apocalyptic america with "Canticle for Leibowitz" and
another novel whose name escapes me at the moment (was set in
Jacksonville, FL, after a BIG nuclear war). Also "The Day After" and
that other really depressing British nuclear holocaust movie - both
where everyone basically dies slowly during the course of the film/
miniseries.
Jeremiah was the exception, and that's only because JMS was involved.
>
> > B. Ludicrously unfair to the country. North Korea et al are innocent.
> > We destroy ourselves, and then commit genocide against countries that
> > didn't attack us. The series could have been made by the Al Qaeda
> > propaganda department.
>
> Again, that's rather realistic. There are enough in the USA (and other
> countries, too) who would just lash out blindly and try to kill
> somebody. Foolishness and fear...
>
> > C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
> > little more than a bad hair day.
>
> You do have a point here. However, it wasn't fullscale nuclear war,
> "just" some strategically placed, limited detonations to achieve the
> desired effect.
>
> > D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
> > would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
> Un-American? Sheesh, either you don't really have *any* clue of what
> humans will do if their "containment" is removed, or you just don't want
> to see it. Look at what happened in New Orleans after that hurrican (I
> think it was Catherine?)
Katrina
>and in Asia after the tsunami for a small
> taste. Plundering, raping, murder, etc. galore. Look at the atrocities
> committed during any war. The lacquer of civilization is very thin.
> Anywhere. Shows like Lost, Jericho, and the new Battlestar Galactica
> have shoved it into people's faces.
I have enough friends with their bunkers in the mountains from Y2K,
and now waiting for the end of the Mayan calendar to need to feed the
other wingnuts by watching a sensationalist TV show based in the "sort
of present".
I'd much rather watch Jenna Elfman deal with get knocked up by someone
15 years her junior. That at least is FUNNY.
-Wendy
voxwoman
> On 28/10/2009 4:22 AM, Christian Hennecke wrote:
>
> >> C. A ridiculous whitewash of nuclear war, these people go through
> >> little more than a bad hair day.
>
> > You do have a point here. However, it wasn't fullscale nuclear war,
> > "just" some strategically placed, limited detonations to achieve the
> > desired effect.
>
> ...and the people we see were never directly exposed to any nuclear
> blast. They see one in the distance, they see some scattered after
> effects... one early episode, they hide out from what they EXPECT will
> be radiation-laden rain, but never know for sure that it was. Most of
> the news they receive on the after-effects is hearsay. Other than a lot
> of confusion and panic, I don't know what other sort of "misery" one
> would expect to see?
Hmmm... well if there are thousands of corpses of humans and animals,
there should be some massive outbreak of some rather nasty pathogens.
I think if you're close enough to see the blast at all, you're close
enough for some serious radiation exposure, but maybe not enough to
kill you within a couple of months, but I'm guessing that there will
be massive leukemia cases on the horizon, and folks in those parts
won't live much past 50.
And they can hide from the rain, but once the rain is in the ground,
the plants growing in it will contain radioactive isotopes. Just like
milk from cows containing high levels of strontium-90 from eating
irradiated grass.
Tell, me did they do the Niven/Pournelle survival tactic and get all
the womenfolk pregnant immediately?
-Wendy
voxwoman
> >> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:50:33 -0400, Doug Freyburger wrote
>
>
>
>
> > Josh Hill wrote:
>
> >> And
> >> New Orleans was secured, action was just delayed because of Bush's
> >> bungling (no idea what was going on at first, then refused to
> >> federalize the Guard and send in troops).
>
> > Inserting Bush's name in this makes the statement objectively false in a
> > way that's trivial to confirm. In the US the President has the power
> > to deploy troops outside of the borders, but no power to deploy them
> > inside the US. A state *must* request aid from any military other than
> > its own National Guard units. Military relief units were lined up on
> > highways leading to New Orleans waiting for permission from the
> > governor.
>
> > Fast or slow, Bush's reaction was more than fast enough because it was
> > faster than the governor's. Consider that once the idiot governor
> > finally realized what he was doing he not only <<
>
> One would have to take your assessment of this with a grain of salt, as the
> quality of your information is suspect based on your calling the Governor of
> Louisiana at the time of Katrina a "he." :-)
>
ISTR some serious strings attached to her initial request for aid,
which was one reason given for the delay in asking, or at least some
of the finger pointing. The Governor of LA was a Democrat. The
Governor of TX was a Republican. There were some politics going on
during and after the storm, and not just bits of the country helping
the other bits. Don't ask me for sources, because I don't have them
readily available - most of my memory comes from conversations with a
NOLA resident who lived through it.
-Wendy
Wes Struebing
<voxw...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I had no desire to watch Jerico - I was burned by "Red Dawn" and got
>my fill of post apocalyptic america with "Canticle for Leibowitz" and
>another novel whose name escapes me at the moment (was set in
>Jacksonville, FL, after a BIG nuclear war). Also "The Day After" and
>that other really depressing British nuclear holocaust movie - both
>where everyone basically dies slowly during the course of the film/
>miniseries.
>
<snip>
Not that you wanted to know, but probably was "Alas, Babylon"
Then, there was "On the Beach", which is probably the "British" movie
you're referring to (though it was a book first)
Don't ask me why I remember all this stuff...<G>
Christophe Bachmann
Jeremiah is a Belgian. :-) Many of our french creators are in fact...
Bill
wrote:
> Well, a lot of the stuff that supposedly went on during the Katrina
> aftermath in New Orleans turned out to have not happened.
>
Actually, my oldest, best friend was in New Orleans and her boyfriend
is a native of the area and both of them have confirmed that much of
what was reported actually did happen.
Bill
Kurt Ullman
<c4d408f3-6e21-4144...@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>,
Bill <feline...@yahoo.com> wrote:
First hand or through the grapevine. For instance, in the after
action stuff, they were never able to find a helicopter pilot actually
shot at.
The main problems with NOLA was that they followed their disaster
plan to the letter but the disaster did not. The Superdome was
specifically mentioned in the DP as a place to ride out the storm and
then be parceled out to the other shelters. Nobody got around (over a
couple generations of planners) to asking what would happen if there
were no shelters. And then everybody spent the first couple of days
deferring to everybody else.
Interesting that the only entity that really did good work early on
was the one that could come in on their own authority and ignore the
other three. Go Coasties!!!!
Doug Freyburger
>Doug Freyburger wrote:
>> Josh Hill wrote:
>
>>> And
>>> New Orleans was secured, action was just delayed because of Bush's
>>> bungling (no idea what was going on at first, then refused to
>>> federalize the Guard and send in troops).
>
>> Inserting Bush's name in this makes the statement objectively false in a
>> way that's trivial to confirm. In the US the President has the power
>> to deploy troops outside of the borders, but no power to deploy them
>> inside the US. A state *must* request aid from any military other than
>> its own National Guard units. Military relief units were lined up on
>> highways leading to New Orleans waiting for permission from the
>> governor.
>
>> Fast or slow, Bush's reaction was more than fast enough because it was
>> faster than the governor's. Consider that once the idiot governor
>> finally realized what he was doing he not only
>
> One would have to take your assessment of this with a grain of salt, as the
> quality of your information is suspect based on your calling the Governor of
> Louisiana at the time of Katrina a "he." :-)
Thanks for the correction. Sorry for my bias of automatically labelling
a moron as male. ;^)
As to the issue of troops and equipment lined up on highways waiting for
permission to enter the state, it should not be hard to retrieve
archival footage showing it. I recall seeing the live video of it on
the news at the time.
Bruckheimer? Anything he touches gets approved. This should be good.
Ron
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:01:52 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
>
> <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
> >movie of similar ilk will rule.
>
> Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
>
>
> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
> Josh
>
It's coming. The 'state' of the union isn't so great these days. I
started paying attention now that I'm forty and not twenty. More than
anything the Copenhegen Treaty, the Amero, and Carbon Taxes scares the
crap out of me. Lord Munckton makes a good case against the UN and
this 'Green' crap.
- Ron
voxwoman
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:49:08 -0700 (PDT), voxwoman
>
>
> <snip>>I had no desire to watch Jerico - I was burned by "Red Dawn" and got
> >my fill of post apocalyptic america with "Canticle for Leibowitz" and
> >another novel whose name escapes me at the moment (was set in
> >Jacksonville, FL, after a BIG nuclear war). Also "The Day After" and
> >that other really depressing British nuclear holocaust movie - both
> >where everyone basically dies slowly during the course of the film/
> >miniseries.
>
> <snip>
>
> Not that you wanted to know, but probably was "Alas, Babylon"
Yep that was it.
-Wendy
Kathryn Huxtable
Boy are you deluded. There is no "Amero". Period.
As to global climate change, you're probably even more deluded.
BTW, mentioning the "Amero" as if it's a real thing is one of those
conversation enders. It's a clear sign that the person involved is not a
member of the reality-based community.
You'll probably respond to this, but if I don't respond back, that's
why. No point of contact.
-K
Josh Hill
<dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The Oklahoma City bombing was non-nuked and by a citizen. His claims
>about his motivations say he did not want the blast to extend outside of
>the federal building zone but he is crazy so who can tell if he would
>have used a nuke if he'd had one.
[ . . . ]
>Something strange in the wording of the last sentence. Folks crazy
>enough to do it are too crazy to be able to pull it off. Folks abel to
>pull it off are too sane to go it. Was that the wording you wanted?
Isn't that what I said? Anyway, yeah, someone like the Oklahoma City
bombing guy couldn't get hold of a nuke even if he wanted to (and if
he did, what would he do about the permissive action link?). The
Unabomber was probably smart enough, but he was too crazy. And Lex
Luthor was on vacation.
>The mass starvation in the first year of the Jericho first season was
>the part that was seen in the least damaged part of the country. The
>centers of recovery didn't match the places with the best resources but
>at least some attempt was made in that direction.
>
>The next year a far worse mass starvation would happen after the crops
>did not come in because they weren't planted. Many regions of the world
>currently depend on US grown food so the starvation would be world wide
>in well under a year.
True, hadn't thought of that.
>Inserting Bush's name in this makes the statement objectively false in a
>way that's trivial to confirm. In the US the President has the power
>to deploy troops outside of the borders, but no power to deploy them
>inside the US. A state *must* request aid from any military other than
>its own National Guard units. Military relief units were lined up on
>highways leading to New Orleans waiting for permission from the
>governor.
As I understand it, Bush had the authority to declare an insurrection
under the Posse Commitatus Act. He could have sent in troops and
Federalized the Guard, but being Bush, he decided people would get
upset if he did and made the wrong call. Whereas forex the technically
illegal use of troops in San Francisco after the earthquake met with
praise rather than condemnation. The man had an almost supernatural
ability to make wrong calls! Who says all abilities have to be as
useful as flying or reading minds? Perhaps some of them confer a
superhuman capacity for screwing things up?
>Fast or slow, Bush's reaction was more than fast enough because it was
>faster than the governor's.
That the governor also proved incompetent was of concern I'm sure to
the people of Louisiana, but didn't much interest me. Local officials
typically are, particularly local officials in Louisiana, which is why
they're local officials, and local officials in Louisiana. I'm not
sure I trust local officials to catch stray dogs, never mind cope with
natural disasters that strike three states.
>Consider that once the idiot governor
>finally realized what he was doing he not only granted permission to the
>US military but also to the Mexican military. The Texas governor
>immediately granted passage and for the first time in a century a
>Mexican military unit crossed into the US. Pretty cool having disaster
>aid running the other direction than usual.
>
>Blaming Bush for not having US military troops on hand to help is as
>biased and easy to figure out as blaming Bush for the hurricane itself.
Clinton professionalized FEMA, Bush appointed unqualified political
hacks. And the lack of planning happened on his watch. The buck stops
here and so forth. As president, it was his responsibility, and he
muffed it.
>Right. I liked Jericho in comparison to the other shows on a couple of
>years ago. Not in comparison to the shows Joe has produced. Different
>field of competition.
I thought it had a lot of his magic, even if it wasn't entirely his .
.. .
Duggy
> I had no desire to watch Jerico - I was burned by "Red Dawn" and got
> my fill of post apocalyptic america with "Canticle for Leibowitz" and
> another novel whose name escapes me at the moment (was set in
> Jacksonville, FL, after a BIG nuclear war). Also "The Day After" and
> that other really depressing British nuclear holocaust movie -
Threads.
> both
> where everyone basically dies slowly during the course of the film/
> miniseries.
Those always freaked me out as a kid.
> Jeremiah was the exception, and that's only because JMS was involved.
Or more because it's reconstruction after the cataclysm, rather than
the cataclysm and deconstruction of society...
> I have enough friends with their bunkers in the mountains from Y2K,
> and now waiting for the end of the Mayan calendar to need to feed the
> other wingnuts by watching a sensationalist TV show based in the "sort
> of present".
The end of the Mayan calender if you read it incorrectly.
> I'd much rather watch Jenna Elfman deal with get knocked up by someone
> 15 years her junior. That at least is FUNNY.
It is?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Hmmm... well if there are thousands of corpses of humans and animals,
> there should be some massive outbreak of some rather nasty pathogens.
I thought that that was myth.
> I think if you're close enough to see the blast at all, you're close
> enough for some serious radiation exposure, but maybe not enough to
> kill you within a couple of months, but I'm guessing that there will
> be massive leukemia cases on the horizon, and folks in those parts
> won't live much past 50.
I'd say so but I'm no expert.
> And they can hide from the rain, but once the rain is in the ground,
> the plants growing in it will contain radioactive isotopes. Just like
> milk from cows containing high levels of strontium-90 from eating
> irradiated grass.
Yup.
> Tell, me did they do the Niven/Pournelle survival tactic and get all
> the womenfolk pregnant immediately?
It was just a soap with a nuke in the first episode... so more than
likely.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Not that you wanted to know, but probably was "Alas, Babylon"
I thought Threads, but you may be right... I think there was a cartoon
"When the Wind Blows" or such, too.
> Then, there was "On the Beach", which is probably the "British" movie
> you're referring to (though it was a book first)
Which was Australian, wasn't it?
> Don't ask me why I remember all this stuff...<G>
Because you can?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> > I don't think that JMS needs a French comic book or a book about
> > Zombies to launch a good story, but he has in the past.
> As much as I hate to break it to you, but Hermann Huppen, the creator of
> Jeremiah is a Belgian. :-) Many of our french creators are in fact...
Where was the comic first printed?
Many Australian actors and singers are actually from New Zealand.
===
= DUG.
===
Josh Hill
<Chri...@JMVD.Info> wrote:
>Like Oklahoma City, Timothy McVeigh ;
>Like the IRA, the ETA, Aum Shinriky?, the Sendero Luminoso...
>
>None of these got their hands on nukes, but one at least unleashed a WDM
>in the Tokyo subway, and none of these are middle-eastern. Hatred and
>desire to unleash destruction is quite equally distributed...
Note how badly the Tokyo subway attack failed. It's a lot harder to
steal and use a bunch of nukes from the US military than it is to make
a bit of nerve gas and some defective anthrax, at least I hope it is.
And when you do get to the relatively sane ones, e.g., the IRA, you
get people who aren't stupid enough to use nukes against their own
country. Hell, I doubt that even the others would be that stupid.
>The chance of getting one's hands on U.S. nukes is indeed nil, but
>getting hold of some obsolescent soviet warheads and smuggling them into
>the U.S., while difficult, could be pulled off by a determined enough
>group. In order to raise a lot of hell you don't need a multi-megaton
>blast, a bare Davy Crockett would be far enough and a lot of 'dud'
>waheads can still pull that off very well.
>
>And that's discounting the even easier 'dirty bomb' and these are
>insanely simple to do, just look up Goiânia ...
But dirty bombs are more a weapon of fear than they are of effect.
Soviet nukes, maybe, but the show didn't use them. Instead, they
relied on a ludicrously implausible black helicopter plot that led to
the use of American nukes against the United States by American
citizens. Had they shown Al Qaeda, say, getting its hands on some old
Soviet nukes and smuggling them into American cities, they would have
had a chillingly plausible what-if. Or Pakistani nukes, or what have
you.
>How big a warhead are you writing about... You can use
>http://surviveanukeattack.com/ to look up fall-out calculators for the
>zones, and with small yields 1-10 kT you don't get a 75 miles plume...
The bombs on the show appear to have been high yield H bombs, not the
small Hiroshoma-sized fission bombs that a terrorist might be expected
to use.
>That is if you think total thermonuclear war and MAD doctrine, but if
>you think terrorists getting their hands on a few small warheads and
>getting suboptimal yield because they are not able to pull off a clean
>fire, you can get the centre of Washington obliterated without even
>impacting Baltimore or Annapolis and then you have all the
>infrastructure needed to take care of a few tens of thousand casualties.
>
>Think Bhopal or Chernobyl, not WW3.
Again, these were people who used American strategic warheads. A small
terrorist explosion would cause great suffering and economic damage,
but I agree, it wouldn't cause a widespread disaster (though even the
destruction of a few buildings in New York had a surprisingly
significant effect on the national economy).
Josh Hill
wrote:
>Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Josh Hill said:
>
>> I just can't believe that there are many people who would nuke their
>> own country. How often does something like that happen? The worst I
>> see is the occasional bombing or assassination, and most of those
>> bombings conducted by extremist organizations in the Middle East, not
>> here. The chance of keeping a conspiracy of the size necessary to get
>
>Timothy McVeigh. Do you think he wouldn't have used a small nuke if he
>could have gotten one?
I dunno, Doug says he said he wouldn't. But I doubt he would have
gotten one even if he'd wanted one. They just aren't that easy to get,
even Al Qaeda hasn't managed, despite various attempts. A Timothy
McVeigh just doesn't have the brains or resources, even if he has the
desire.
Josh Hill
>I have enough friends with their bunkers in the mountains from Y2K,
>and now waiting for the end of the Mayan calendar to need to feed the
>other wingnuts by watching a sensationalist TV show based in the "sort
>of present".
Do I see the seeds of an amusing story here? A bunch of overaged
hippies are refurbishing their Y2K shelter in anticipation of the end
of the Mayan calendar, when an asteroid strikes and they find
themselves the sole representatives of humanity . . .
Josh Hill
wrote:
>It's coming. The 'state' of the union isn't so great these days. I
>started paying attention now that I'm forty and not twenty. More than
>anything the Copenhegen Treaty, the Amero, and Carbon Taxes scares the
>crap out of me. Lord Munckton makes a good case against the UN and
>this 'Green' crap.
Never even heard of the Amero, the Copenhagen Treaty isn't going to do
much, and we aren't going to have carbon taxes, though we should,
because inaction is going to cost us a lot more than action would.
Just cap and trade.
Christophe Bachmann
It was first printed in the german magazine 'Zack', but syndicated to
the french 'Métal Hurlant' and the belgian 'Spirou', and was collected
in book form by the belgian 'Editions Fleurus' before being split
between the french 'Hachette' and the belgian 'Novedi' from the fifth
volume and sold to the belgian 'Dupuis' after the twelfth.
A very european thing.
Kurt Ullman
Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Fast or slow, Bush's reaction was more than fast enough because it was
> >faster than the governor's.
>
> That the governor also proved incompetent was of concern I'm sure to
> the people of Louisiana, but didn't much interest me. Local officials
> typically are, particularly local officials in Louisiana, which is why
> they're local officials, and local officials in Louisiana. I'm not
> sure I trust local officials to catch stray dogs, never mind cope with
> natural disasters that strike three states.
Interesting, though, that the other states had considerably less
trouble despite the fact they had much wider spread damage. The Federal
Response, by law and tradition is only to back up the locals and help.
In those areas where the locals were able to uphold their end of the
bargain, the response by the same group of people went much better.
Kurt Ullman
Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But dirty bombs are more a weapon of fear than they are of effect.
But the business of terrorists is to terrorize. THAT is the effect
they are looking for and that is the effect they will get. Especially
with general nuke-aversion psychosis so prevalent in the US.
Properly placed, it could have some very debilitating economic
implications. Interesting scenario at:
http://www.jplabs.com/html/dirty_bomb.HTM
>
> >Think Bhopal or Chernobyl, not WW3.
>
> Again, these were people who used American strategic warheads. A small
> terrorist explosion would cause great suffering and economic damage,
> but I agree, it wouldn't cause a widespread disaster (though even the
> destruction of a few buildings in New York had a surprisingly
> significant effect on the national economy).
See above (g).
Kathryn Huxtable
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:03:43 -0700 (PDT), Ron <apar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>It's coming. The 'state' of the union isn't so great these days. I
>>started paying attention now that I'm forty and not twenty. More than
>>anything the Copenhegen Treaty, the Amero, and Carbon Taxes scares the
>>crap out of me. Lord Munckton makes a good case against the UN and
>>this 'Green' crap.
>
> Never even heard of the Amero, the Copenhagen Treaty isn't going to do
> much, and we aren't going to have carbon taxes, though we should,
> because inaction is going to cost us a lot more than action would.
> Just cap and trade.
The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
to scare right-wingers.
-K
Ron
wrote:
> Ron <apart...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Oct 27, 5:56 pm, Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:01:52 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
>
> >> <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it. Having JMS do a
> >> >movie of similar ilk will rule.
>
> >> Really? I hated Jericho, heh.
>
> >> D. The Civil War notwithstanding, I find the premise that the nation
> >> would devolve into warring camps unrealistic and even un-American.
>
> >> --
> >> Josh
>
> > It's coming. The 'state' of the union isn't so great these days. I
> > started paying attention now that I'm forty and not twenty. More than
> > crap out of me. Lord Munckton makes a good case against the UN and
> > this 'Green' crap.
>
> Boy are you deluded. There is no "Amero". Period.
>
> As to global climate change, you're probably even more deluded.
>
> BTW, mentioning the "Amero" as if it's a real thing is one of those
> conversation enders. It's a clear sign that the person involved is not a
> member of the reality-based community.
>
> You'll probably respond to this, but if I don't respond back, that's
> why. No point of contact.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sure, i'll respond. Tell me why I'm deluded about the Amero? As to
climate change - oh ya, I do know that there is a climate change
occurring, It no longer snows here. But it's a natural cycle, not a
man made disaster. Sea water is getting colder, not warmer. The ice
sheets are growing, not melting. Polar bears are not dying by the
droves.
-R
SLerman
> Tell me why I'm deluded about the Amero?
Well, I had never even heard of it before now, and since technology
forums tend to lean (to put it mildly) libertarian, I would think I
would have seen at least one ridiculous flame war about it if it were
remotely close to reality. A quick look at the results from Google for
"amero currency" shows me a bunch of blogs and no legitimate news
sources. My personal, and I'd like to think unbiased, opinion is that
it's just a conspiracy theory, and not a particularly interesting one.
Kathryn Huxtable
Kathryn Huxtable
You're deluded about the Amero because there's nothing to it. That's
like asking why you're deluded about the sky being paisley.
Wrong on all counts. 'Nuff said. You are obviously getting your
information from the non-reality-based community. And Lord Munckton has
his head up his ass so far he's looking out his mouth.
-K
Doug Freyburger
> Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Inserting Bush's name in this makes the statement objectively false in a
>>way that's trivial to confirm. In the US the President has the power
>>to deploy troops outside of the borders, but no power to deploy them
>>inside the US. A state *must* request aid from any military other than
>>its own National Guard units. Military relief units were lined up on
>>highways leading to New Orleans waiting for permission from the
>>governor.
>
> As I understand it, Bush had the authority to declare an insurrection
> under the Posse Commitatus Act.
If a President called a hurricane an insurrection, I would join the call
for Impeachment. I didn't even join the call to Impeach Nixon.
I was in Los Angeles metro during the King riots. I would not have
objected then, but even then the troops called in were California
National Guard units. The governor at the time could have asked for
federal troops and at the time I would not have objected.
> ... The man had an almost supernatural
> ability to make wrong calls! Who says all abilities have to be as
> useful as flying or reading minds? Perhaps some of them confer a
> superhuman capacity for screwing things up?
Right. Please don't see that I correct folks who havbe their story
wrong and think it's because I was a Bush supporter. I gave up on
supporting or opposing sitting Presidents after Carter left office
other than at the polls.
voxwoman
> On Oct 29, 10:49 am, voxwoman <voxwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I had no desire to watch Jerico - I was burned by "Red Dawn" and got
> > my fill of post apocalyptic america with "Canticle for Leibowitz" and
> > another novel whose name escapes me at the moment (was set in
> > Jacksonville, FL, after a BIG nuclear war). Also "The Day After" and
> > that other really depressing British nuclear holocaust movie -
>
> Threads.
>
> > both
> > where everyone basically dies slowly during the course of the film/
> > miniseries.
>
> Those always freaked me out as a kid.
>
> > Jeremiah was the exception, and that's only because JMS was involved.
>
> Or more because it's reconstruction after the cataclysm, rather than
> the cataclysm and deconstruction of society...
>
> > I have enough friends with their bunkers in the mountains from Y2K,
> > and now waiting for the end of the Mayan calendar to need to feed the
> > other wingnuts by watching a sensationalist TV show based in the "sort
> > of present".
>
> The end of the Mayan calender if you read it incorrectly.
I'm not one of those people that freak out when the odometer goes back
to 0, which is what the whole Mayan calendar is. The fact that it also
coincides with the (cue the "uh-oh" music) Galactic Alignment is
coincidental and I don't think catastrophic as in "end of the World"
because it happens every 26Kyr, which means it's happened more than
173,100 times (assuming an age of the earth at 4500Myr). Pretty old
hat for the earth, if you ask me.
>
> > I'd much rather watch Jenna Elfman deal with get knocked up by someone
> > 15 years her junior. That at least is FUNNY.
>
> It is?
Yes. Maybe not the one-sentence version I provided, but the dialog
makes me laugh out loud.
-Wendy
voxwoman
> On Oct 29, 12:21 pm, Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Not that you wanted to know, but probably was "Alas, Babylon"
>
> I thought Threads,
Threads is the movie I was talking about. Alas, Babylon is the book
title about a community that "survives" a nuclear attack on the United
States, and most of the action takes place in Jackonsville, Florida.
The few things I remember from that book is the filling of the
bathtubs right away so they wouldn't run out of potable water
immediately, and them being very happy to be living near orange
groves. Alas, Babylon along with the DoD publication "The Effects of
Nuclear Weapons" and a map of Northern Virginia (where I was living as
a young teenager) convinced me that I would be part of the glassed-
over area when they nuked the Pentagon. The local street maps had
mileage rings centered on the Pentagon. The only logical reason I
could think of for this was knowing how close you are to ground zero.
-Wendy
Chris Adams
>I'm not one of those people that freak out when the odometer goes back
>to 0, which is what the whole Mayan calendar is. The fact that it also
>coincides with the (cue the "uh-oh" music) Galactic Alignment is
>coincidental
Especially when it doesn't coincide at all. First, the so-called
Galactic Equator is just something we have assigned to an area of space,
and second, the closest point in any such alignment was about 10-11
years ago.
I'd say I can't wait until 2013, but I'm sure there'll just be another
crackpot pop-sci "end of the world is coming and I can prove it" myth on
TV and the Internet.
--
Chris Adams <cma...@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Kathryn Huxtable
I'll never forget the final line of _Alas, Babylon_, when the
Jacksonville community is contacted by what's left of the rest of the US
and one of them asks who won the war. The reply is, "We did. We beat the
hell out of them. Not that it matters."
-K
Josh Hill
<dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>If a President called a hurricane an insurrection, I would join the call
>for Impeachment. I didn't even join the call to Impeach Nixon.
>
>I was in Los Angeles metro during the King riots. I would not have
>objected then, but even then the troops called in were California
>National Guard units. The governor at the time could have asked for
>federal troops and at the time I would not have objected.
The looting was I think sufficient legal justification. And remember
that nobody cared when the Army marched into San Francisco (well, out
of the Presidio, anyway) in 1906. No legal justification whatsoever.
Josh Hill
wrote:
>In article <d1dke5l3b9q9o8s9g...@4ax.com>,
> Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> But dirty bombs are more a weapon of fear than they are of effect.
> But the business of terrorists is to terrorize. THAT is the effect
>they are looking for and that is the effect they will get. Especially
>with general nuke-aversion psychosis so prevalent in the US.
> Properly placed, it could have some very debilitating economic
>implications. Interesting scenario at:
>http://www.jplabs.com/html/dirty_bomb.HTM
It would certainly be expensive, but to put it in perspective, I think
you have to compare it to forex the much more widespread economic
damage from forex WW II bombing -- entire cities reduced to rubble,
and yet Japan and Germany recovered within a generation.
Josh Hill
<kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
>to scare right-wingers.
Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
is some kind of plot.
Kathryn Huxtable
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
> <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>
>>The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
>>to scare right-wingers.
>
> Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
> Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
> is some kind of plot.
Well, someone is trying to convince people of this. I heard Dick Armey
say something to the effect that it's a plot.
-K
Kurt Ullman
Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The looting was I think sufficient legal justification. And remember
> that nobody cared when the Army marched into San Francisco (well, out
> of the Presidio, anyway) in 1906. No legal justification whatsoever.
The law at the time required insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful
combination, or conspiracy. Simple looting would not have sufficed
unless, like in the riots there was well... .rioting. The laws have been
changed a couple of time since then to open up the ability of the Pres
to put troops in to these situations.
1906 society was a whole lot different in what was tolerated or
interpreted.
voxwoman
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>
> >The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
> >currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
> >to scare right-wingers.
>
> Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
> Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
> is some kind of plot.
>
Why? more vaccine for them?
-Wendy
voxwoman
> In article <gdsme5tu623p4v57c8deta5nu9q80ie...@4ax.com>,
> Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The looting was I think sufficient legal justification. And remember
> > that nobody cared when the Army marched into San Francisco (well, out
> > of the Presidio, anyway) in 1906. No legal justification whatsoever.
>
> The law at the time required insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful
> combination, or conspiracy. Simple looting would not have sufficed
> unless, like in the riots there was well... .rioting. The laws have been
> changed a couple of time since then to open up the ability of the Pres
> to put troops in to these situations.
> 1906 society was a whole lot different in what was tolerated or
> interpreted.
OK, what's unlawful combination? Mixing oil and water? Dogs and cats
living together?
-Wendy
Duggy
> On Oct 29, 8:36 pm,Duggy<p.allan.dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I have enough friends with their bunkers in the mountains from Y2K,
> > > and now waiting for the end of the Mayan calendar to need to feed the
> > > other wingnuts by watching a sensationalist TV show based in the "sort
> > > of present".
> > The end of the Mayan calender if you read it incorrectly.
> I'm not one of those people that freak out when the odometer goes back
> to 0, which is what the whole Mayan calendar is.
Not to zero, but rather 13.0.0.0.0, as a new cycle starts.
It's like being freaked out when it turn into the year 2000.
> The fact that it also
> coincides with the (cue the "uh-oh" music) Galactic Alignment is coincidental
Which was more precise in 1998 than it will be in 2012...
> and I don't think catastrophic as in "end of the World"
> because it happens every 26Kyr, which means it's happened more than
> 173,100 times (assuming an age of the earth at 4500Myr). Pretty old
> hat for the earth, if you ask me.
> > > I'd much rather watch Jenna Elfman deal with get knocked up by someone
> > > 15 years her junior. That at least is FUNNY.
> > It is?
> Yes. Maybe not the one-sentence version I provided, but the dialog
> makes me laugh out loud.
OK.
===
= DUG.
===
Wes Struebing
<p.allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 29, 12:21 pm, Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Not that you wanted to know, but probably was "Alas, Babylon"
>
>I thought Threads, but you may be right... I think there was a cartoon
>"When the Wind Blows" or such, too.
>
>> Then, there was "On the Beach", which is probably the "British" movie
>> you're referring to (though it was a book first)
>
>Which was Australian, wasn't it?
The book was. And was played that way in the movie. But, iirc,
Gregory Peck was the (American) submarine captain. (Ava Gardner was
the love interest)
>
>> Don't ask me why I remember all this stuff...<G>
>
>Because you can?
>
It's a curse, but I've learned to live with it...<G>
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
Winston
> Nice summary of the TV series Jericho. I loved it.
Are you thinking of Jericho or Jeremiah? They had a related premise,
but JMS's show was Jeremiah. Jerico, IMHO, was so unrealistic I stopped
watching after just the first few episodes.
-WBE
Wes Struebing
wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
><kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>
>>The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
>>to scare right-wingers.
>
>Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
>Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
>is some kind of plot.
It seems so, but worse is Jenny McCarthy (she even has a youtube video
of "how she cured her son [I think it was] of "autism caused by
vaccines"). SHE is a scary wingnut.
Yeah - right...
Wes Struebing
<kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>> <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>>
>>>The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
>>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
>>>to scare right-wingers.
>>
>> Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
>> Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
>> is some kind of plot.
>
>Well, someone is trying to convince people of this. I heard Dick Armey
>say something to the effect that it's a plot.
>
About on a par with Michelle Bachman's assertion that the census is to
put people in camps like the Japanese-Americans of WWII.
One really wonders what planet these nuts come from.
Wes Struebing
Dumping water into acid?
Kathryn Huxtable
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:19:17 -0400, Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>><kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>>
>>>The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
>>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
>>>to scare right-wingers.
>>
>>Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
>>Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
>>is some kind of plot.
>
> It seems so, but worse is Jenny McCarthy (she even has a youtube video
> of "how she cured her son [I think it was] of "autism caused by
> vaccines"). SHE is a scary wingnut.
>
> Yeah - right...
Don't get me started on those people...
-K
Ron
> > climate change - oh ya, I do know that there is a climate change
> > occurring, It no longer snows here. But it's a natural cycle, not a
> > man made disaster. Sea water is getting colder, not warmer. The ice
> > sheets are growing, not melting. Polar bears are not dying by the
> > droves.
>
> like asking why you're deluded about the sky being paisley.
>
> Wrong on all counts. 'Nuff said. You are obviously getting your
> information from the non-reality-based community. And Lord Munckton has
> his head up his ass so far he's looking out his mouth.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The 'amero' may be fantasy, but the Euro isn't. NAFTA isn't a
fantasy. All of that builds up, making it easier for new laws and
agreements. Pan-America will follow, with a united currency not far
behind.
Yes I've seen the stupid blogs about the amero, and Amexda, and you're
right, most of that's crap. But what is right is the 'direciton' that
things are going.
-R
Ron
wrote:
> Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> writes:
> > On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:19:17 -0400, Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>
> >>>TheAmerois a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
> >>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
> >>>to scare right-wingers.
>
> >>Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
> >>Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
> >>is some kind of plot.
>
> > It seems so, but worse is Jenny McCarthy (she even has a youtube video
> > of "how she cured her son [I think it was] of "autism caused by
> > vaccines"). SHE is a scary wingnut.
>
> > Yeah - right...
>
> Don't get me started on those people...
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Crank -- Crank --
- Ron
Ron
> > climate change - oh ya, I do know that there is a climate change
> > occurring, It no longer snows here. But it's a natural cycle, not a
> > man made disaster. Sea water is getting colder, not warmer. The ice
> > sheets are growing, not melting. Polar bears are not dying by the
> > droves.
>
> like asking why you're deluded about the sky being paisley.
>
> Wrong on all counts. 'Nuff said. You are obviously getting your
> information from the non-reality-based community. And Lord Munckton has
> his head up his ass so far he's looking out his mouth.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The sky is not paisley? Well .. eye of the beholder an' all. I
suppose where you come from the sky is blue?
-R
Ron
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:19:17 -0400, Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>
> >>TheAmerois a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
> >>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
> >>to scare right-wingers.
>
> >Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
> >Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
> >is some kind of plot.
>
> It seems so, but worse is Jenny McCarthy (she even has a youtube video
> of "how she cured her son [I think it was] of "autism caused by
> vaccines"). SHE is a scary wingnut.
>
> Yeah - right...
> --
>
> Wes Struebing
> I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
> and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
> promising liberty and justice for all.
> Homepage:www.carpedementem.org
> linkedin profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
I'm not fond of vaccines - the local clinic couldn't even tell us what
the contents were, nor did they know where they actually ordered them
from. We've had two cases of H1N1 among friends and family, but only
one case was directly after the vaccine- a 10 month old. But I
believe that's to be expected, a few get the flu after the 'shot' ...
- Ron
Ron
wrote:
> Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> writes:
> > On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:19:17 -0400, Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>
> >>>TheAmerois a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
> >>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
> >>>to scare right-wingers.
>
> >>Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
> >>Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
> >>is some kind of plot.
>
> > It seems so, but worse is Jenny McCarthy (she even has a youtube video
> > of "how she cured her son [I think it was] of "autism caused by
> > vaccines"). SHE is a scary wingnut.
>
> > Yeah - right...
>
> Don't get me started on those people...
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kathryn! I've found startling evidience of the AMERO! - http://tinyurl.com/yclayl2
Surely you see your arguements as futile now!
-R
Kurt Ullman
<246d3061-1b18-4b95...@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
voxwoman <voxw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK, what's unlawful combination? Mixing oil and water? Dogs and cats
> living together?
Basically it another way to say conspiracy. You know attorney's
can't just say one thing. When you bill by the milisecond every word
counts (grin)
Kurt Ullman
<92701e96-3a79-4750...@p32g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Ron <apar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not fond of vaccines - the local clinic couldn't even tell us what
> the contents were, nor did they know where they actually ordered them
> from. We've had two cases of H1N1 among friends and family, but only
> one case was directly after the vaccine- a 10 month old. But I
> believe that's to be expected, a few get the flu after the 'shot' ...
>
So, do you ask the pharmacist or doctor or nurse where your
(insert ANYTHING from vitamins to cancer medications)comes from or the
contents? If not, what makes H1N1 so different?
The Dirty little secret is that the H1N1 is made EXACTLY the same
way as the seasonal flu shots that have been in use for years. There is
absolutely nothin' exotic about it. If H1N1 had been nice enough to rear
its ugly little head a few months earlier, it would have been included
with the "regular". It didn't so it wasn't and let the people get bent
for no reason.
voxwoman
It depends on whether or not someone added acid to the water...
-Wendy
Bill
> Sure, i'll respond. Tell me why I'm deluded about the Amero? As to
> climate change - oh ya, I do know that there is a climate change
> occurring, It no longer snows here. But it's a natural cycle, not a
> man made disaster. Sea water is getting colder, not warmer. The ice
> sheets are growing, not melting. Polar bears are not dying by the
> droves.
Are you aware that your opinions on global warming contradict every
reputable study on the subject that I have ever heard of? As for the
Amero, it has been categorically denounced as an outright fraud
perpetrated by a radio host according to http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/amerocoin.asp.
Bill
voxwoman
>
> Ron <apart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm not fond of vaccines - the local clinic couldn't even tell us what
> > the contents were, nor did they know where they actually ordered them
> > from. We've had two cases of H1N1 among friends and family, but only
> > one case was directly after the vaccine- a 10 month old. But I
> > believe that's to be expected, a few get the flu after the 'shot' ...
>
> So, do you ask the pharmacist or doctor or nurse where your
> (insert ANYTHING from vitamins to cancer medications)comes from or the
> contents? If not, what makes H1N1 so different?
> The Dirty little secret is that the H1N1 is made EXACTLY the same
> way as the seasonal flu shots that have been in use for years. There is
> absolutely nothin' exotic about it. If H1N1 had been nice enough to rear
> its ugly little head a few months earlier, it would have been included
> with the "regular". It didn't so it wasn't and let the people get bent
> for no reason.
>
People have been freaking out about vaccines since they were invented.
this cartoon was in one of my elementary school science books, when we
were learning about Leewenhouek and other 19th century biologists.
http://www.vaclib.org/intro/present/cartoon.jpg
(You'll note the small cows protruding from people who were
innoculated for cowpox)
My mother used to tell stories about when she was a little girl in the
Bronx, in the 1920s, how her mother and all the other mothers would be
terrified all summer long, worrying that their kids would get polio. I
remember the birth defects of babies carried when their mothers
contracted rubella (German measles), and how the global populations
were reduced by things like smallpox outbreaks. There is evidence that
there were many more humans living on the North American continent
prior to European "discovery," and that contact with the Europeans
reduced the populations there significantly (making it much easier for
colonization - an unexpected consequence of contact) simply because
those populations hadn't been selected for immunity/resistance to
those bacteria and virii (N.A. populations had a stronger resistance
to parasitic organisms, which the Europeans couldn't tolerate). I
don't have a net source for this, but it's in the book "1491" ( amazon
link: http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelations-Americas-Before-Columbus/dp/140004006X
)
I was just at a lecture the other day where the psychologist was
saying that autism (or some forms of it) is now thought to be
something going wrong with the mechanism in the brain that prunes
excess neurons during childhood/early adolescence; that autistic
children have more neural connections than they're "supposed" to.
Perhaps this is some sort of early adaptation to our wired society,
and the genome is attempting to work this stuff out.
-Wendy
Amy Guskin
(in article
<kurtullman-47100...@70-3-168-216.pools.spcsdns.net>):
> In article
> <92701e96-3a79-4750...@p32g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> Ron <apar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not fond of vaccines - the local clinic couldn't even tell us what
>> the contents were, nor did they know where they actually ordered them
>> from. We've had two cases of H1N1 among friends and family, but only
>> one case was directly after the vaccine- a 10 month old. But I
>> believe that's to be expected, a few get the flu after the 'shot' ...
>>
> So, do you ask the pharmacist or doctor or nurse where your
> (insert ANYTHING from vitamins to cancer medications)comes from or the
> contents? If not, what makes H1N1 so different?
> The Dirty little secret is that the H1N1 is made EXACTLY the same
> way as the seasonal flu shots that have been in use for years. There is
> absolutely nothin' exotic about it. If H1N1 had been nice enough to rear
> its ugly little head a few months earlier, it would have been included
> with the "regular". It didn't so it wasn't and let the people get bent
> for no reason. <<
I've already had my seasonal flu shot, and probably will not get the H1N1
vaccine (even though I'm diabetic), but not because I'm anti-virus: it's
because I already _had_ the H1N1 over the summer.
But to give people a little credit, it really isn't "for no reason." This
flu has been widely referred to as "swine flu," and most ordinary people
don't say "H1N1 vaccine" -- they say "swine flu vaccine." And the last time
swine flu vaccines were developed and administered, people died, people
developed Guillain-Barré syndrome, and I believe there were other problems.
Sure, this vaccine ain't that vaccine, and as you say, this is pretty much
exactly like the seasonal flu vaccine and only due to a fluke of timing
didn't get included in the seasonal one, but it's not out of nowhere that
people are _relating_ the two.
Amy (seeing a lot of sick people at every Halloween event -- take your
AirBorne, folks!)
--
Ten Thousand Questions
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com
John W. Kennedy
> People have been freaking out about vaccines since they were invented.
> this cartoon was in one of my elementary school science books, when we
> (You'll note the small cows protruding from people who were
> innoculated for cowpox)
Besides, according to "Christians" (who understood Christian doctrine
about as well as a woman whose only real accomplishment is that she
looks really hot when she's naked understands immunology), it's wicked
to thwart God's will when he's trying to kill you.
> My mother used to tell stories about when she was a little girl in the
> Bronx, in the 1920s, how her mother and all the other mothers would be
> terrified all summer long, worrying that their kids would get polio.
My mother /did/ get polio in the 1930s. She was one of the lucky ones
who beat it completely, though it took the better part of a year.
> I
> remember the birth defects of babies carried when their mothers
> contracted rubella (German measles),
Yup. A major fear when I was growing up.
> and how the global populations
> were reduced by things like smallpox outbreaks. There is evidence that
> there were many more humans living on the North American continent
> prior to European "discovery," and that contact with the Europeans
> reduced the populations there significantly (making it much easier for
> colonization - an unexpected consequence of contact) simply because
> those populations hadn't been selected for immunity/resistance to
> those bacteria and virii
Ouch! "Viruses" is the /only/ plural of "virus", which has no plural
in Latin, and is of a freak variety (2nd-declension neuter nouns in "-
us", for those who are interested) for which no plural can be
extrapolated. "Virii" is the Latin equivalent of "cattleses".
> (N.A. populations had a stronger resistance
> to parasitic organisms, which the Europeans couldn't tolerate). I
> don't have a net source for this, but it's in the book "1491" (amazon
> link: <URL:http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelations-Americas-Before-Columbus/dp/140004006X>)
The exact numbers are still controversial, but a 90% death rate is
fairly commonly given.
voxwoman
wrote:
So did everyone jump on Tolkein for "Hobittses"?
Noted on the virus plural. From now on, I'l use "virixenses."
>
> > (N.A. populations had a stronger resistance
> > to parasitic organisms, which the Europeans couldn't tolerate). I
> > don't have a net source for this, but it's in the book "1491" (amazon
> > link: <URL:http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelations-Americas-Before-Columbus/dp/14...>)
>
> The exact numbers are still controversial, but a 90% death rate is
> fairly commonly given.
ISTR that from the book, but as the numbers are still controversial, I
preferred to err on the side of vagueness. :-D
There was one passage in the book, describing what were basically
ghost towns all along the Mississippi river, as noted by one of the
early explorers (forget which one was the first to go up the river,
but it was him).
-Wendy
Ron
> On Oct 30, 1:23 pm, Ron <apart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > climate change - oh ya, I do know that there is a climate change
> > occurring, It no longer snows here. But it's a natural cycle, not a
> > man made disaster. Sea water is getting colder, not warmer. The ice
> > sheets are growing, not melting. Polar bears are not dying by the
> > droves.
>
> Are you aware that your opinions on global warming contradict every
> perpetrated by a radio host according tohttp://www.snopes.com/politics/business/amerocoin.asp.
>
> Bill
The Amero represents a direciton and trend toward a unified currency.
I wonder if the Euro is really a fraud?
As for the 'reputable study' on climate change and global warming; I
recall that Al Gore (the inventor of the internet) stated that sea
levels would rise immiently, we were approaching disaster - then we
bought a condo on the beach. Gore's report indicates that polar bears
were dying all over the place - when in fact only 4 deaths of polar
bears were recorded during his report time frame. Climatologists are
not in concensus about global warming.
Actual data shows that the UN has fabricated reports on global
warming.
If you have any links to share, I would like to look at them. Do a
search on YouTube for Lord Monckton at St. Paul. Good speech. He's a
funny bird, but good reports.
-R
SLerman
> Al Gore (the inventor of the internet)
I'm not certain what your intent here is, but you seem to be mocking
Al Gore for claiming to have invented the Internet. Gore has never
claimed such a thing, nor has anyone with a clue about the development
of the Internet. Gore was perhaps the most important supporter in
Congress of the funding and development of the Internet when it was
still primarily controlled by the Department of Defense and a few
major universities, and he continued to be an important supporter when
he was vice president. Only idiots have seriously said that Gore
invented the Internet or that he has ever claimed to have invented the
Internet.
You can read a bit about his role as a Congressman and as Vice
President- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_gore#House_and_Senate and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore_and_information_technology#Vice_President_and_Information_Superhighway
Kurt Ullman
<799091ee-838f-4280...@15g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>,
"John W. Kennedy" <john.w....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Besides, according to "Christians" (who understood Christian doctrine
> about as well as a woman whose only real accomplishment is that she
> looks really hot when she's naked understands immunology), it's wicked
> to thwart God's will when he's trying to kill you.
That also works on the other end. Nobody has ever been able to tell
him how pulling the plug is any different (from a God's will standpoint)
than putting the plug IN in the first place.
John W. Kennedy
Too true -- as a networking professional in the early 90s (though more
SNA than TCP/IP), the main thing I knew about Gore was that he was
Washington's "Information Superhighway Guy". He didn't "invent the
Internet" and never claimed to, but he was the politician most
responsible for the funding that eventually led to the public Internet
as we know it (although he had been thinking in terms of a new
network, not the sudden explosion of the historic ARPAnet that came
with the introduction of Mosaic).
Amy Guskin
(in article
<cbf4bb01-79c0-46b0...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>):
> As for the 'reputable study' on climate change and global warming; I
> recall that Al Gore (the inventor of the internet) <<
<banging head on desk>
Amy Guskin
(in article
<653f1326-742b-4e6f...@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>):
> On Oct 31, 1:22 pm, Ron <apart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Al Gore (the inventor of the internet)
>
> I'm not certain what your intent here is, but you seem to be mocking
> Al Gore for claiming to have invented the Internet. Gore has never
> claimed such a thing, nor has anyone with a clue about the development
> of the Internet. Gore was perhaps the most important supporter in
> Congress of the funding and development of the Internet when it was
> still primarily controlled by the Department of Defense and a few
> major universities, and he continued to be an important supporter when
> he was vice president. Only idiots have seriously said that Gore
> invented the Internet or that he has ever claimed to have invented the
> Internet. <<
Thanks. You did that better than I did.
Amy
Dan Dassow
wrote:
> On Oct 31, 10:38 am, voxwoman <voxwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My mother used to tell stories about when she was a little girl in the
> > Bronx, in the 1920s, how her mother and all the other mothers would be
> > terrified all summer long, worrying that their kids would get polio.
>
> My mother /did/ get polio in the 1930s. She was one of the lucky ones
> who beat it completely, though it took the better part of a year.
The initial symptoms of poliomyelitis appear the same as a case of the
flu. Depending upon which of the three serotypes of poliovirus, 90 to
95 percent cases are asymptomatic and less than 1 percent lead to
paralysis. Unfortunately, even people who have not shown any symptoms
of polio can get post-polio syndrome as they grow older, typically
over the age of 40. The last major outbreak of polio in the United
States was in 1955, the year I contracted polio. There have been minor
outbreaks in the United States since that time in small communities
who did not believe in vaccination.
Dan Dassow
Wes Struebing
What is quite frightening to me are the "flu parties", similar to
(thank the Great Maker my parents had better sense!) the "chicken pox"
parties" or "measles parties" when I was a sprite (I know hard to
believe I was ever a sprite...).
I'll wager that these idiots (I an find no cleaner word to describe
them) would have staged "polio parties" at the time...
;-)
Wes Struebing
<ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:22:20 -0400, Ron wrote
>(in article
><cbf4bb01-79c0-46b0...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> As for the 'reputable study' on climate change and global warming; I
>> recall that Al Gore (the inventor of the internet) <<
>
><banging head on desk>
Easy, dear. You'll break your fangs...
(wanting to do the same thing, but already weak enough from having
been bled today...)
Dan Dassow
Wes, I know you are joking about this, but I could not imagine anyone
during the time of the polio epidemics having "polio parties". Fear of
contracting polio at times bordered on hysteria. A good book to read
on the subject is "Polio and Its Aftermath: The Paralysis of Culture"
by Marc Shell (ISBN 0674013158,
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ABookSources&isbn=0674013158
)
Parents who conduct "flu parties" should be charged with reckless
endangerment.
Dan Dassow
voxwoman
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:42:06 -0700 (PDT), Dan Dassow
>
>
>
> <dan_das...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 31, 10:35 am, "John W. Kennedy" <john.w.kenn...@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On Oct 31, 10:38 am, voxwoman <voxwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > My mother used to tell stories about when she was a little girl in the
> >> > Bronx, in the 1920s, how her mother and all the other mothers would be
> >> > terrified all summer long, worrying that their kids would get polio.
>
> >> My mother /did/ get polio in the 1930s. She was one of the lucky ones
> >> who beat it completely, though it took the better part of a year.
>
> >The initial symptoms of poliomyelitis appear the same as a case of the
> >flu. Depending upon which of the three serotypes of poliovirus, 90 to
> >95 percent cases are asymptomatic and less than 1 percent lead to
> >paralysis. Unfortunately, even people who have not shown any symptoms
> >of polio can get post-polio syndrome as they grow older, typically
> >over the age of 40. The last major outbreak of polio in the United
> >States was in 1955, the year I contracted polio. There have been minor
> >outbreaks in the United States since that time in small communities
> >who did not believe in vaccination.
>
> What is quite frightening to me are the "flu parties", similar to
> (thank the Great Maker my parents had better sense!) the "chicken pox"
> parties" or "measles parties" when I was a sprite (I know hard to
> believe I was ever a sprite...).
I never went to a Rubella party, but my brother got it when he was 8
or 9, and I was in 3rd or 4th grade (years before the vaccine was
available). He didn't finish his soup for lunch and I asked if I could
have it. My mother decided that it was better for me to get German
Measles before I hit puberty, and let me finish his soup. I will never
forget the day a few weeks later, when I noticed spots all over me in
class, and the teacher practically threw me out of the classroom when
I pointed them out to her :)
I also remember chicken pox (my earliest memory, actually), and mumps.
My daughter got the vaccines.
-Wendy
Ron
You know what, you're right about that. I don't personally like Gore,
for envirnmental issues, but that was a bit too far. I should not
have mocked him, and I should have researched that more. The phrase
that I heard him say was akin to 'push to create the internet'..
-R
shawn
<kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>Josh Hill <usere...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:59:49 -0500, Kathryn Huxtable
>> <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org> wrote:
>>
>>>The Amero is a right-wing fantasy of a North American common
>>>currency. No one in any government is working on this. It exists solely
>>>to scare right-wingers.
>>
>> Whose ability to swallow crap whole never ceases to astound me. I hear
>> Rush and Beck are trying to convince people that the H1N1 flu vaccine
>> is some kind of plot.
>
>Well, someone is trying to convince people of this. I heard Dick Armey
>say something to the effect that it's a plot.
It's not a totally unreasonable idea. I'm not saying there is any sort
of conspiracy going on. What I've heard talked suggested is that part
of the reason for amping up the fear of H1N1 is to force people to get
flu shots.
The suggestion is that since the flu tends to mutate every year this
can be an ongoing thing with everyone having to get flu shots each
year and making the flu shot manufacturers a LOT of money. It's not
unreasonable to suggest that the flu shot manufacturers would love to
see such a thing come to pass and may be encouraging politicians /
health officials to move in that direction. Doesn't require any huge
conspiracy or plots since it's just normal business to try and grow a
business by whatever legal (and sometimes illegal) means available.