ATTN JMS: Crusade - how do you think you did?
Pål Are Nordal
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Now that you've had some time to put the battles you fought during the
production behind you, how do you feel what was produced of Crusade
turned out?
What was your strongest episode?
What was your weakest (ignoring War Zone)?
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Pål Are Nordal
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Jms at B5
>production behind you, how do you feel what was produced of Crusade
>turned out?
>
>What was your strongest episode?
>
>What was your weakest (ignoring War Zone)?
I still think the first five produced were our best of the ones we shot, in
terms of the ones I wrote. The best scripts of mine per se would probably be
the two that didn't get produced but which were made available via
bookface.com, To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line. I think they
would've kicked over the table and shown where the production, and the story,
was going. They're also the ones I wrote after "Apperances," which is where I
decided, "Fuck it, fuck TNT, fuck the notes, I'm just gonna go back to what I
was doing for the first 5 and write what I want." I got pissed, and sometimes
I write best when I'm angry about something.
Weakest of my scripts...probably The Long Road, which started out as a good
idea, and is still about 70% a good idea, but it's over-written and it
feels...I dunno... stagey, somehow.
You actually happened to hit me with this question on a reflective night, so
I'm taking a bit more time than I normally would with this.
I was talking to a friend recently, and I mentioned that in looking at the
Crusade episodes on SFC, something about them bothers me...not the performers,
who are all great, or the direction, which was generally quite good (with some
lapses), but the writing. They didn't seem to me to have the same level of
energy as B5.
To which I was told, "You want to know the truth of it? I was glad when they
shut down Crusade." Now, as you might expect, I was kind of taken aback by
this, and asked for clarification and what this had to do with my original
statement.
The reply: "You were *exhausted*. You did five years of backbreaking work, you
were averaging 3-4 hours sleep a night if you were lucky, you lost your hair,
your health, and a good-sized chunk of your sanity...you were *tired*. The
best thing would've been if there had been a year break between B5 and Crusade,
to give you a chance to catch your breath. Would it have made a difference to
TNT's decision? No. They changed their mind about the show based on their new
ratings surveys before you ever shot a frame of film. But you wouldn't be
sensing that lack of energy in the episodes now.
"Look at the stuff now: the Rising Stars screenplay is getting fast-tracked,
the studio and the network love (title deleted until press release is issued),
it's some of your best work ever, and Rangers has the energy that B5 always
had, that Crusade didn't. It's still better than 95% of what's out there, but
it's not you writing at the top of your top form."
"So how come you didn't say this at the time?" I asked.
"Because then you couldn't have heard it, wouldn't have listened. Now you
can."
Hearing something like that is very difficult, because we all like to think
we're invulnerable. In retrospect, I think there's a measure of truth to it.
Maybe more than a measure.
Crusade is a good show. It got beaten down after the first five, stayed kind
of beaten down through network notes and my own fatigue fighting fights that I
shouldn't have had to fight, then picked up with the two post-fuck'em scripts
because my energy was gearing up again at that decision. But overall it was a
good show.
Not that it made any difference to Crusade's eventual fate; that had zero to do
with the writing, acting, or directing, and everything to do with an internal
corporate TNT decision about SF in general. Even written at 100% of my energy
level, even if it had been a GREAT show instead of a very good show, it STILL
would've met the fate it met. Of that there is no question.
It was starting to pick up speed again with those last two scripts. I think we
would've eventually progressed in quality to where it needed to be.
But I had just enough energy to get it started, to write and produce it, but
not enough to go through all that AND the day-to-day battles with the network.
Having gone through five years of hell on B5, I could handle any two of those
three, not all three.
And I'm wondering now if, in the long run, maybe it was the best thing that
could have happened. If it had not gone the way it did, I almost certainly
would never have been in a position to do the things I'm doing now...a (still
classified) high-profile and high-budget TV series for one network, a B5 TV
movie that will almost certainly go to a series on SFC, and the Rising Stars
feature film in addition to a bunch of other stuff. And it's all fresh, with
energy, there's fun there, and I think Rangers will have the fun and energy and
cool stuff that is emblematic of B5.
I've always tried to be very forthright in my appraisal of my own work...I know
where my strengths are, but I also know where my failings are, and I think one
needs to be blunt about both. So I tend to be pretty merciless when looking
back at this kind of thing, but I think it's necessary.
It's weird to think that I'm actually in a *better* position now, in terms of
my career and the quality of my work, with Crusade having gone the way it did,
than I would be if it had continued...but there it is.
It's a funny old world, you know...?
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)
E. John Roth III
>
> It's weird to think that I'm actually in a *better* position now, in terms of
> my career and the quality of my work, with Crusade having gone the way it did,
> than I would be if it had continued...but there it is.
>
> It's a funny old world, you know...?
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)
Joe - Still some of the Stuff you did do in Crusade STILL kicked ass. As for "The
Long Road" I LIKED it then, I LIKE it now. As for Well Of Forever and Each Night...
You tore me to shreds with those eps. That was a GOOD thing. As for TNT so days you
get the Tiger some days she gets you - screw 'em.
E. John Roth III
(Still would have like to see that Cool sword though)
Matthew Vincent
>"Because then you couldn't have heard it, wouldn't have listened. Now you can."
In a manner of speaking, perhaps you already knew. You wrote the plot
where Franklin was using his work to escape from his inner self, and
you had G'Kar remark about how his imprisonment gave him a chance to
do some soul-searching without the distractions of the outside world.
I can relate a lot of this to myself, and I've got a fair idea of what
might be happening for you, but I won't say any more right now since I
appreciate the need for manners concerning unauthorised scans (so to
speak). In general terms, I'll say that I think people tend to project
their ideal self onto a goal of something they'd like to achieve
(whether in work or relationships), and then feel anxiety at the
thought of not achieving it, sometimes to the point where their life
can lose meaning without it.
I often find myself hit in the face with something I kinda knew
already, but had previously found too inconvenient to accept on its
own terms. Especially when it comes to relationships, actually.
I thought a lot about G'Kar's comments, and I still don't know if
there actually is anything better than doing what you have to do
(work), getting used to it, finding something to indulge in to
convince yourself that you're coping. It's kinda like how
relationships can be a way to escape emotional wounds, but yet this
doesn't mean it's healthy to go without relationships altogether.
Maybe work is the same way - there's nothing better than escaping the
pain, but it's helpful to at least understand our feelings so we don't
take the way we cope with them for granted. Plus to take breaks, to
vary things in order to find different ways of coping, to deal with at
least some of the baggage which is unnecessary.
I hope I'm wrong about this speculation, and I hope one day I discover
or hear that there's a better way. But if my work and stuff is
escapism, then what am I escaping *from*? Fear of my vulnerability, my
inevitable death and progression towards it, my biology and animal
nature? What the heck can I do about that? Is there really something
at the centre of me that can make it all healthy and right, if I just
work it all out? I don't know so much. Well, I know I take some
comfort from viewing humanity as having a future and a path I can
contribute to, as a generalisation of my own individual
life-preserving instinct. Thus the appeal of Deconstruction.
>Hearing something like that is very difficult, because we all like to think
>we're invulnerable.
Yes, and that's been a hard lesson for me also. It's also been a
problem when other people (like my recent ex-girlfriend) give me
feedback, and this feedback is inaccurate due to *them* making
rationalisations out of wanting to think they're invulnerable. I try
so hard to get everything right, and I can't bear it when I stuff up.
I'm constantly aware of being vulnerable, to the point where I can see
many things in a different way. For this reason, I'm determined not to
let myself fall apart in the meantime - although I know that will
happen eventually (as per SiL), one way or the other. For all that you
disliked WZ, there were some scenes in that I really identify with. My
goal in life isn't to avoid falling apart, so much as to make sure I
ground the Drakh ship and release the distress signal before that
happens. That sums up the long-term goals for my career. Ideally, I'd
also like to be happy and enjoy my life while I'm at it, so I know
what I'm fighting *for*. Survival is only temporary, and a means to an
end - the end is doing good things for myself and others.
>Crusade is a good show.
Indeed. It disappointed the heck out of me when TNT canned it. Bunch
of losers. Thinking back to those old cartoons, perhaps a proverbial
canister of TNT needs to be stuck up... I shouldn't be advocating
violence, so I'll stop right there.
>I've always tried to be very forthright in my appraisal of my own work...I know
>where my strengths are, but I also know where my failings are, and I think one
>needs to be blunt about both.
Couldn't agree more. We can maintain most of our strengths (what is
built endures, as Delenn would say) whilst working on improving or
managing our failings.
>It's a funny old world, you know...?
All too well. Sometimes my cynicism parallels Galen's, but sometimes I
feel like there is a design out there and that things have happened in
my life for a reason - even the highly inconvenient experiences. It
all seems to fit too well. Or perhaps I'm just imagining this out of a
subconscious avoidance of the reality that it's all temporary and that
my consciousness could disappear at any time. Who knows? But either
way, as long as I still exist then I have a destiny: Life.
Matthew
Brian Stinson
But having said that, when I watched Crusade I compared it to B5 season one,
and found that it compared very favorably. I was very excited to see where
the story was going. Watching it again on Sci-Fi, I just shake my head and
wonder what TNT was thinking when they found it unsatisfactory.
James Bell
"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010419021712...@ng-de1.aol.com...
> a B5 TV
> movie that will *almost certainly* go to a series on SFC,
It hasn't even filmed yet and it has already gone from a "maybe" to an
"almost certainly"!!!
Woo Hoo!
Jim
Andrew Timson
news:20010419021712...@ng-de1.aol.com...
<snip>
> ...sometimes
> I write best when I'm angry about something.
That doesn't explain SiL, though.
<snip>
> You actually happened to hit me with this question on a reflective night,
so
> I'm taking a bit more time than I normally would with this.
We're here to listen.
<snip>
> "...The
> best thing would've been if there had been a year break between B5 and
Crusade,
> to give you a chance to catch your breath..."
Yes, but then you'd have had a year of us bugging you to tell us what
Crusade was about...
> "...the studio and the network love (title deleted until press release is
issued)..."
Grr...
> "Because then you couldn't have heard it, wouldn't have listened. Now you
> can."
Just because JMS can listen doesn't mean that he will. See B5, and the
comments made at the beginning - "You're nuts." "It'll never finish."
"You're insane." Did he listen? No. At least in that case we're the better
for it.
<snip>
> It was starting to pick up speed again with those last two scripts. I
think we
> would've eventually progressed in quality to where it needed to be.
With the two scripts, IMHO it was *exactly* where it needed to be.
I'm just thankful that Legions of Fire 2 resolves the cliffhanger...
> But I had just enough energy to get it started, to write and produce it,
but
> not enough to go through all that AND the day-to-day battles with the
network.
> Having gone through five years of hell on B5, I could handle any two of
those
> three, not all three.
Would Crusade have taxed you as much as B5 once it got going? You said that
the arc wouldn't be as tight, meaning that you could probably bring in some
outside or staff writers.
You probably won't answer (directly), but did you have a SiL-type episode
planned for Crusade (tear-jerker finale)? Or something more along the lines
of if Endgame was B5's last episode?
> And I'm wondering now if, in the long run, maybe it was the best thing
that
> could have happened. If it had not gone the way it did, I almost
certainly
> would never have been in a position to do the things I'm doing now...a
(still
> classified)
I know that Lucasfilm installs anti-spoiler implants (OK, so they're really
non-disclosure agreements, but it's an on-going joke that spoilers blow up
the one giving them) in the writers of the new arc-based Star Wars novels.
Do TV executives install implants in their writers, too?
> high-profile and high-budget TV series for one network, a B5 TV
> movie that will almost certainly go to a series on SFC
D'oh! I don't *have* the budget to buy cable, but I'm going to have to.
> and the Rising Stars
> feature film in addition to a bunch of other stuff.
Which would you recommend for a newbie - comics then movie or movie then
comics? I haven't been able to find the trade paperback (I'm still
searching!), so if I don't find it soon I may hold off until the movie if
that's what you recommend.
> And it's all fresh, with
> energy, there's fun there, and I think Rangers will have the fun and
energy and
> cool stuff that is emblematic of B5.
Nice...
> I've always tried to be very forthright in my appraisal of my own work...I
know
> where my strengths are, but I also know where my failings are, and I think
one
> needs to be blunt about both. So I tend to be pretty merciless when
looking
> back at this kind of thing, but I think it's necessary.
I'm the same way - looking back on my writing, I say "This is bad. That
needs to be rewritten. Out the window this part goes." I never compliment
myself on anything.
<snip>
> It's a funny old world, you know...?
Too well... too well...
Andrew Timson
==================================================
Well, Ambassador, what *do* you want? It's impolite to just tell me "They
aren't for you," and run off...
Jessica L. Price
| Crusade is a good show. It got beaten down after the first five, stayed
<snip>
|
| It's weird to think that I'm actually in a *better* position now, in terms
of
| my career and the quality of my work, with Crusade having gone the way it
did,
| than I would be if it had continued...but there it is.
Maybe I'm reading to much into this. I can't quite be sure, but does this
sound to anyone else like he's fairly certain that Crusade is definitely
done for?
OTOH, he does say "Crusade *is* a good show" rather than "Crusade *was* a
good show."
<sigh> I'm really starting to get into it, and counting down the remaining
episodes like this is really depressing.
Pål Are Nordal
>
> Maybe I'm reading to much into this.
I think so.
> I can't quite be sure, but does this
> sound to anyone else like he's fairly certain that Crusade is definitely
> done for?
He's been very consistent in saying otherwise ever since the production
stopped, and I don't think that's changed.
Jessica L. Price
"Pål Are Nordal" <a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3ADF7370...@bigfoot.com...
| "Jessica L. Price" wrote:
| >
| > Maybe I'm reading to much into this.
|
| I think so.
Good.
webmaster
"E. John Roth III" <jr...@oklahoma.net> wrote in message
news:3ADE8AE1...@oklahoma.net...
I agree. The Long Road was great - it just shouldn't have appeared as the
second episode. It turned alot of people off because of the Golden Dragon
thing.
I liked the thoughtful nature of Crusade - "The Path of Sorrows" was
unbelievable.
Nathan
www.livefromspace.tv
>
>
>
TN...@aol.com
wrote:
>After hearing all that, I guess it's good that Crusade ended when it did.
>But having said that, when I watched Crusade I compared it to B5 season
>one,and found that it compared very favorably. I was very excited to see
where
>the story was going. Watching it again on Sci-Fi, I just shake my head
>and wonder what TNT was thinking when they found it unsatisfactory.
I agree. Actually, I couldn't get into B5 Season 1 at all. It took seeing a
number of episodes in either Season 2 or 3 to get me hooked. With Crusade, I
started out with little interest and before the end of the 13 episodes was
totally hooked. It sucked me into the characters/mystery much faster than B5
did. When it ended, I was disappointed in a way I never expected to be (so
disappointed I actually wrote a letter to the Sci-Fi channel on Crusade's
behalf -- not the kind of thing I normally do).
Joe, I think your friend was way too hard on the show. I loved it and am
convinced that if TNT had given it a chance it would've had a big audience.
TNW
Jon Green
> I still think the first five produced were our best of the ones we shot, in
> terms of the ones I wrote. The best scripts of mine per se would probably be
> the two that didn't get produced but which were made available via
> bookface.com, To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line.
Joe --
Now that bookface.com has folded, is there anywhere else we can buy
these scripts?
Thanks in advance,
Jon
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Carl N. Hoff
Thanks for the longer then usual note. A couple quick questions:
(1) You mention "The best scripts of mine per se would probably be
the two that didn't get produced but which were made available
via bookface.com, To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line."
Is there any chance at all of these being made available again in
some format in the future?
(2) I take the tone of your email to imply that there is ZERO chance
of Crusade ever making a come back. Is Crusades truly dead?
Or is there still a glimmer of hope someplace?
Later,
Carl
Andrew Timson
news:6tltdtkpu2va48a45...@4ax.com...
> On 18 Apr 2001 23:18:06 -0700, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>
> > I still think the first five produced were our best of the ones we shot,
in
> > terms of the ones I wrote. The best scripts of mine per se would
probably be
> > the two that didn't get produced but which were made available via
> > bookface.com, To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line.
>
> Joe --
>
> Now that bookface.com has folded, is there anywhere else we can buy
> these scripts?
Not right now, at least.
Andrew
Mike Ventrella
his comments. It means a lot to us fans out here. Thanks again!
Jms at B5
> of Crusade ever making a come back. Is Crusades truly dead?
> Or is there still a glimmer of hope someplace?
>
It doesn't have anything to do with that one way or t'other.
Joe Biles
them to order more episodes. Of course, the only time I did it
previously was prior to the July something '99 deadline for renewing
cast and crew contracts, so it's not like I've been the most devoted
"Crusade" advocate. As far as the previous poster's first question,
which JMS didn't answer, I hope we'll be able to see "To the Ends of
the Earth" and "End of the Line" again--this time as full 45-minute
length TV episodes.
Joe
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>I just wanted to comment about how nice it is to have jms post here and give
>his comments. It means a lot to us fans out here.
Indeed. :)
Matthew
Dave Thomer
particularly once things got hairy. Thanks for sharing this. It does raise
one question: how the heck are you going to stop it from happening again? I
know you've brought up the Sorkin and Kelley examples, but they don't get as
closely involved with every element of the show as you tend to do. And I
have to think that planning and attention to detail is part of what produced
the budget efficiency you mentioned in B5. I mean, if you think you have
all this great stuff in you, I want to see it -- but it boggles my mind to
even THINK about two or three series plus comic book assignments, move
scripts and who knows what else. I mean, I HOPE you won't be requiring
yourself to get massively ticked off just for the adrenaline's sake. :)
Take care.
Dave Thomer
This Is Not News - www.notnews.org
Philosophy, public affairs, and pop culture
Tammy Smith
want to. I had to do this a few years ago. I didn't want to--I wanted
to keep fighting my battles. If I had continued fighting, though, I
honestly don't know if I would still be alive today. I was depressed,
exhausted, & ready to end it all. I finally just had to give up the
battle & try to heal. This is something I had to do on my own--no one
could've told me to do it because of my stubborn nature. You know what?
It was tough at first, but after that, I felt alive again, & things are
pretty good now. Things actually can work out in the end.
Tammy
Pål Are Nordal
>
> I always wondered how much fatigue might have factored into Crusade,
> particularly once things got hairy. Thanks for sharing this. It does raise
> one question: how the heck are you going to stop it from happening again?
He isn't as close to the stories as he was with B5, and they aren't as
meticulously planned. I trust there will be a writing staff on both shows.
Kenneth Keller
> In article <J%AD6.470$dM6.1...@nnrp3.sbc.net>, Brian <blee...@swbell.net>
> wrote:
> I agree. Actually, I couldn't get into B5 Season 1 at all. It took seeing a
> number of episodes in either Season 2 or 3 to get me hooked. With Crusade, I
> started out with little interest and before the end of the 13 episodes was
> totally hooked. It sucked me into the characters/mystery much faster than B5
> did.
What do you expect, he had the experience of B5 under his belt. I'm sure
he learned something in 5 years. :)
Ken
-=====================================================================-
ZOG!
Kimball, Robert
strong as the B5 work or not (and I can see how it was corporated some)
with the cast and the overall story as great as it was, it moved us all.
And we would really like to see the rest. Isn't it nice to see the fruits
of your inspiration be so adored?. :)
Rob
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Dylan Hankel
mean, just in light of the fact that you seem a bit less enthusiastic about
it now after having what can now be viewed from the ordeal as a very needed
rest period for you. If Sci Fi came up to you and said they were so pleased
with the ratings from the Crusade re-run that they'd like to revive the show
would you wholeheartedly agree and hand it over to Fiona Avery and your
other trusted associates or do you think one new B5 related series (TLoTR)
is as much as you AND Sci Fi could handle (I just get this feeling trying to
think what goes on in a suit's mind that they'd unfortunately somehow view
LoTR AND Crusade fully alive again on the channel at the same time as
"oversaturating" their channel with B5 shows. I hope that's not the case.)?
I hope you're not too tired to also see Crusade float back to the stars
where it belongs IMHO with the Ranger series so we can see how you would
have blown both us and yourself away with the two scripts that you feel
would have helped make yourself feel even better about the direction the
core 5 episodes had. Anyways, glad things are going so well for you now
with all the new projects and that you can look back on the trial as a
valuable renewal process. I definitely know how that feels myself.
Dylan H.
Brandon Wolgast
Crusade has been gone for good since it was originally stopped. While I
agree I would love to see it come back, it simply will not do so, and I
never thought it would. I think this, among other things, is JMS
"confirming" that.
Brandon
Mac Breck
From: "Dylan Hankel" <dyl...@ndak.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: So, jms, does this mean that.....
> .....there is even less of a chance for Crusade to get revived by Sci Fi?
I
> mean, just in light of the fact that you seem a bit less enthusiastic
about
> it now after having what can now be viewed from the ordeal as a very
needed
> rest period for you. If Sci Fi came up to you and said they were so
pleased
> with the ratings from the Crusade re-run that they'd like to revive the
show
> would you wholeheartedly agree and hand it over to Fiona Avery and your
> other trusted associates or do you think one new B5 related series (TLoTR)
> is as much as you AND Sci Fi could handle (I just get this feeling trying
to
> think what goes on in a suit's mind that they'd unfortunately somehow view
> LoTR AND Crusade fully alive again on the channel at the same time as
> "oversaturating" their channel with B5 shows. I hope that's not the
case.)?
I don't know if it's "possible" to oversaturate the channel with B5 related
series. :-)
Besides, who knows how long they're going to run B5 without a break?
> I hope you're not too tired to also see Crusade float back to the stars
> where it belongs IMHO with the Ranger series so we can see how you would
> have blown both us and yourself away with the two scripts that you feel
> would have helped make yourself feel even better about the direction the
> core 5 episodes had.
Me too. I'd *love* to see To the Ends of the Earth" and "End of the Line"
produced. I'd also love to see "Hidden Agendas" (the short story) get into
B5:LotR. Fun times could be ahead!
:-)
Mac Breck
----------------
Vorlon Empire
Defender of Marcus and Lennier
Watch "CRUSADE"
8 PM on The Sci-Fi Channel
Mon-Thurs. in April 2001, beginning 4/9
James Bell
movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of closure
would be better than nothing.
Jim
"Dylan Hankel" <dyl...@ndak.net> wrote in message
news:tdusq0h...@corp.supernews.com...
James Bell
>>>I take the tone of your email to imply that there is ZERO chance of
Crusade ever making a come back. Is Crusades truly dead?
> Or is there still a glimmer of hope someplace?
>
It doesn't have anything to do with that one way or t'other.
jms>>>
What is he confirming? If Joe wasn't holding out some hope of finishing the
story, he would have said so long since in clear and precise language. He
has refused to do so even in vague generalities. You are free to read
between the lines all you like but there is nothing to support the
contention that jms doesn't intend to finish his story.
Now, chances have always been slim-to-none that Crusade gets renewed.
However, the chances are better now than they have ever been and if there
was ever a time for hope, this is it.
Jim
"Brandon Wolgast" <bwol...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RXKD6.38687$o9.82...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Mac Breck
From: "James Bell" <jam...@naxs.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Crusade - how do you think you did?
> So when Joe posts this:
>
> >>>I take the tone of your email to imply that there is ZERO chance of
> Crusade ever making a come back. Is Crusades truly dead?
> > Or is there still a glimmer of hope someplace?
> >
> It doesn't have anything to do with that one way or t'other.
> jms>>>
>
> What is he confirming? If Joe wasn't holding out some hope of finishing
the
> story, he would have said so long since in clear and precise language. He
> has refused to do so even in vague generalities. You are free to read
> between the lines all you like but there is nothing to support the
> contention that jms doesn't intend to finish his story.
>
> Now, chances have always been slim-to-none that Crusade gets renewed.
> However, the chances are better now than they have ever been and if there
> was ever a time for hope, this is it.
>
> Jim
Agreed. JMS is just saying that the tone of his post and Crusade's chances
for revival are unrelated. Crusade's chances for revival *are* related to
what Nielsen Numbers it gets on Sci-Fi, and "probably" how many letters
Sci-Fi gets asking for more (as in NEW) episodes of Crusade after the last
episode airs on 4/30.
Andrew
> Dave Thomer wrote:
> >
> > I always wondered how much fatigue might have factored into Crusade,
> > particularly once things got hairy. Thanks for sharing this. It does
raise
> > one question: how the heck are you going to stop it from happening
again?
>
> He isn't as close to the stories as he was with B5, and they aren't as
> meticulously planned. I trust there will be a writing staff on both shows.
My wish list (for a staff shared between both shows): Fiona Avery, Peter
David, Kathryn M. Drennan, Harlan Ellison, *maybe* D.C. Fontana, and
Lawrence G. DiTilitio.
Plus, of course, the half or so of each series written by JMS...
Andrew
==================================================
Well, Ambassador, what *do* you want? It's impolite to just tell me "They
aren't for you," and walk off...
Rob Scott
news:9bpfnn$f0a$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu...
> I'd personally be happy with a wrap-up of Crusade through a series of
2-hour
> movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of
closure
> would be better than nothing.
That's not a bad idea. It also might be possible to have "crossover"
episodes within the Rangers series and bring back the Crusade crew for a
while.
BTW, I hope this does not approach a story idea in any way, since I did not
suggest a story line for such an episode.
- Rob Scott
Tammy Smith
whole premise, so why would he just discard it without finishing it?
It's part of the whole B5 saga. I think he just needed time away from
the pressures of TV for awhile. He doesn't hate Crusade--he just hated
the battles he had with TNT.
I hope that JMS will be able to have fun now with his various
projects--he deserves it!
Tammy
Mac Breck
From: "Tammy Smith" <gka...@webtv.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Subject: Re: So, jms, does this mean that.....
> I doubt that JMS would just completely abandon Crusade. He set up the
> whole premise, so why would he just discard it without finishing it?
> It's part of the whole B5 saga. I think he just needed time away from
> the pressures of TV for awhile. He doesn't hate Crusade--he just hated
> the battles he had with TNT.
I don't know how they were able to produce as good of a show as they did
with Crusade, given the awful working environment it had to be for JMS.
Pål Are Nordal
>
> I'd personally be happy with a wrap-up of Crusade through a series of 2-hour
> movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of closure
> would be better than nothing.
I strongly disagree. If you do a token "wrap-up" Crusade, that will be
all there is. Without it, there is what could have been...
Jessica L. Price
"Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> wrote in message
news:022e01c0c9a7$862a3b90
| > So when Joe posts this:
| >
| > >>>I take the tone of your email to imply that there is ZERO chance of
| > Crusade ever making a come back. Is Crusades truly dead?
| > > Or is there still a glimmer of hope someplace?
| > >
| > It doesn't have anything to do with that one way or t'other.
| > jms>>>
| >
| > What is he confirming? If Joe wasn't holding out some hope of finishing
| the
| > story, he would have said so long since in clear and precise language.
He
| > has refused to do so even in vague generalities. You are free to read
| > between the lines all you like but there is nothing to support the
| > contention that jms doesn't intend to finish his story.
| >
| > Now, chances have always been slim-to-none that Crusade gets renewed.
| > However, the chances are better now than they have ever been and if
there
| > was ever a time for hope, this is it.
| >
| > Jim
|
|
|
| Agreed. JMS is just saying that the tone of his post and Crusade's
chances
| for revival are unrelated. Crusade's chances for revival *are* related to
| what Nielsen Numbers it gets on Sci-Fi, and "probably" how many letters
| Sci-Fi gets asking for more (as in NEW) episodes of Crusade after the last
| episode airs on 4/30.
In addition, there *was* the tantalizing:
">I heard a rumor that the main reason there won't be any new Crusade
>episodes is that the cast can't be reassembled.
Untrue.
>I doubt this is the
>reason, since SFC will probably want to wait for the ratings breakdowns
>first, see how things are going to go, then crank up new episodes if it
>looks good.
That would certainly be the more logical approach.
jms"
Pål Are Nordal
>
> My wish list (for a staff shared between both shows): Fiona Avery, Peter
> David, Kathryn M. Drennan, Harlan Ellison, *maybe* D.C. Fontana, and
> Lawrence G. DiTilitio.
There are pretty decent writers out there who haven't worked on B5 yet, y'know...
(And you should remember that being on staff at a show is a different
beast than being a freelancer, and someone doing one of them may not be
interested in doing the other).
Joseph DeMartino
interested in "Crusade" JMS made the point that "Rangers" was a "B5" project
based on "B5"'s ratings, while "Crusade" was its own project and hadn't
even aired (at that point) on Sci-Fi. So the one had no impact on the
other. If ever there was a chance for throwing cold water on the idea of a
"Crusade" revival, that was it and JMS didn't take it.
Even before "B5" debuted on the Sci-Fi Channel it was clear that a) Sci-Fi
was interested in the whole "B5" universe and future projects from JMS and
b) that there was a plan in place for testing "B5", etc. "on their air."
Finally it was clear that Sci-Fi was going to take a one-step-at-a-time
approach to the whole thing.
They bought the rights to the "B5" reruns but pointedly did *not* buy the
"Crusade" rights at the same time. JMS "predicted" a time-line when this
happened: Sci-Fi would run "B5" all the way through to see what the ratings
were like, then they'd acquire to "Crusade" and see how *it* did, and after
that anything was possible. He also noted (in mid-2000) that even if Sci-Fi
wanted to revive "Crusade" time table for airing both sets of reruns and the
logistics of putting the show back together probably meant that it couldn't
go back into production any sooner than the Spring of 2002.
That means that "Crusade" season two (or a completed season one depending on
how they handle things) could be set in 2267 and would debut in the Fall of
2002 - along with the second season of "Rangers" If the "Rangers" pilot is
set in late 2265 and the first season in 2266, season two would likely be
set in 2267. I don't think any of this is a coincidence. Rather I think it
is typical JMS contingency planning, which I don't think he'd bother with if
*he* had written off any chance of "Crusade" returning.
He's just not going to say anything until there is something concrete to say
something *about*. But I'm sure that further "Crusade" stories have been
part of the conversations between JMS and Sci-Fi *from the beginning*, since
they very much wanted both the "B5" reruns and "Crusade" back in 1999, and
that "Crusade" is still an option.
One of the arguments against reviving "Crusade" is that it is "damaged
goods" - a failure on another network. Of course, if Sci-Fi launches an
original "Rangers" series and it is successful, then "Crusade" could be sold
as simply another "new" "B5" spin-off, removing much of this patina of
"failure."
Regards,
Joe
Pål Are Nordal
>
> One of the arguments against reviving "Crusade" is that it is "damaged
> goods" - a failure on another network.
Like Sliders and Poltergeist: The Legacy?
E. John Roth III
Joe were the Oracle of Delphi in a former life?
Lisa Coulter
>
>"P=E5l Are Nordal" <a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:3AE021E2...@bigfoot.com...
>> Dave Thomer wrote:
>> >
>> > I always wondered how much fatigue might have factored into Crusade,
>s
>raise
>> > one question: how the heck are you going to stop it from happening
>again?
>>
>> He isn't as close to the stories as he was with B5, and they aren't as
>ws.
>
>My wish list (for a staff shared between both shows): Fiona Avery, Peter
>David, Kathryn M. Drennan, Harlan Ellison, *maybe* D.C. Fontana, and
>Lawrence G. DiTilitio.
>
>Plus, of course, the half or so of each series written by JMS...
>
>Andrew
Neil Gainan! Neil Gainan! Neil Gainan!
(Did I say I loved Day of the Dead? Sure you'd never guess ;-) )
I know he is a mainline SF / fantasy author, but if he'd do 1 - 2 eps per
season....whoa!
Lisa
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Andrew Timson
news:zd0E6.4624$D4.4...@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <3ae049c8$0$12829$1dc6...@news.corecomm.net>, Andrew says...
> >
> >"P=E5l Are Nordal" <a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:3AE021E2...@bigfoot.com...
> >> Dave Thomer wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I always wondered how much fatigue might have factored into Crusade,
> >> > particularly once things got hairy. Thanks for sharing this. It
doe=
> >s
> >raise
> >> > one question: how the heck are you going to stop it from happening
> >again?
> >>
> >> He isn't as close to the stories as he was with B5, and they aren't as
> >> meticulously planned. I trust there will be a writing staff on both
sho=
> >ws.
> >
> >My wish list (for a staff shared between both shows): Fiona Avery, Peter
> >David, Kathryn M. Drennan, Harlan Ellison, *maybe* D.C. Fontana, and
> >Lawrence G. DiTilitio.
> >
> >Plus, of course, the half or so of each series written by JMS...
> >
> >Andrew
>
>
> Neil Gainan! Neil Gainan! Neil Gainan!
>
> (Did I say I loved Day of the Dead? Sure you'd never guess ;-) )
>
> I know he is a mainline SF / fantasy author, but if he'd do 1 - 2 eps per
> season....whoa!
It'd be easier for him to be a freelancer and do that, but I wouldn't mind
his return.
Oh, and it's Neil Gaiman, not Gainan.
Andrew
==================================================
Andrew Timson
> Andrew wrote:
> >
> > My wish list (for a staff shared between both shows): Fiona Avery, Peter
> > David, Kathryn M. Drennan, Harlan Ellison, *maybe* D.C. Fontana, and
> > Lawrence G. DiTilitio.
>
> There are pretty decent writers out there who haven't worked on B5 yet,
y'know...
I have yet to see the TV work of one of them, with the exception of Chris
Carter (who's a tad busy right now).
> (And you should remember that being on staff at a show is a different
> beast than being a freelancer, and someone doing one of them may not be
> interested in doing the other).
True, although five of the six were already regular workers (and for four,
writers) on a show (Avery was on Crusade, PD had his own show with Bill
Mumy, Ellison... did something on B5, and Fontana and DiTilitio were both
story editors). So it's not too much of a stretch for them. Ms. Drennan, on
the other hand, has written three scripts, period. She is probably unlikely
to be a staff writer.
Please note, though, that it was called a wish list. As in what I want. Not
what is likely.
Andrew Timson
> James Bell wrote:
> >
> > I'd personally be happy with a wrap-up of Crusade through a series of
2-hour
> > movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of
closure
> > would be better than nothing.
>
> I strongly disagree. If you do a token "wrap-up" Crusade, that will be
> all there is. Without it, there is what could have been...
How about 47 2-hour movies and 1 3-hour movie?
Matthew Vincent
wrote:
>I hate to say this, but I really believe it has been painfully obvious
>Crusade has been gone for good since it was originally stopped. While I
>agree I would love to see it come back, it simply will not do so, and I
>never thought it would. I think this, among other things, is JMS
>"confirming" that.
I try not to ignore the truth when it's inconvenient, and I can
appreciate where you're coming from. However, perhaps your pessimism
is unwarranted in this particular situation. JMS would tell us if it
was over as a certainty - I fully believe that. He has said it could
go either way, so let's stick with that until we hear otherwise. JMS
tends to work on multiple projects at once, and often leaves them for
a while with the intention of maybe returning to them later (like the
City of Dreams). He likes to leave his options open and not burn
bridges. Right now, he's too busy with Legend of the Rangers to turn
his attention to Crusade, but it's not beyond possibility that he
might try a 2nd season of Crusade in the future, especially now that
things are going well due to the Sci-Fi channel. The previous episodes
of Crusade were clearly written with this possibility in mind. Let's
not jump to conclusions - it could still go either way.
Matthew
Duggy (Paul A Duggan)
> I'd personally be happy with a wrap-up of Crusade through a series of 2-hour
> movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of closure
> would be better than nothing.
What about crossovers with B5LR in a few years time...
---
- Dug.
---
The E-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail.
---
Lisa Coulter
says...
>
>James Bell wrote:
>>=20
>> I'd personally be happy with a wrap-up of Crusade through a series of 2=
>-hour
>> movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of clo=
>sure
>> would be better than nothing.
>
>I strongly disagree. If you do a token "wrap-up" Crusade, that will be
>all there is. Without it, there is what could have been...
>
>a_b...@bigfoot.com
>
Podkayne Fries posted a rumor on rasftv this afternoon claiming to be from
inside sources. I will quote part of it. Note, I have NO IDEA how accurate
this is, or in general if Podkayne would have sources that might know this.
Perhaps some of the "net elders" around here can comment.
Podkayne says:
Note that this is a rumor, passed on to me by an insider. Don't shoot
the messenger because I'm just posting gossip ...
A little background first:
As I'm sure you've all figured out by now, SciFi wants to own
*everything* marginally skiffy. This explains why they've bought crap
like FIRST WAVE and BLACK SCORPION. Whether or not the acquisition is
any good is irrelevant; the idea here is to become the only TV station
where a sci-fi fan can find sci-fi programming. They're a niche market
and their goal is to corner the market. AMC, for example, has the
rights to run the old Godzilla movies and a lot of 50s horror/sci-fi.
SciFi is counting the days until the contracts expire so that they can
buy the rights to run all the classic stuff we've grown to love.
Despite his reputation, SciFi wanted JMS to write something for them so
that they could monopolize most of his time. Yes, he usually has
several projects going at once, but a weekly series will take most of
his attention. Upper-level SciFi PHBs have purchased case lots of
Chapstick in JMS-Ass Flavor because a happy JMS won't wander off and
start a series somewhere else.
Although JMS doesn't see CRUSADE AND RANGERS as a fiscal repacking of
BABYLON 5, SciFi does. They see this as a Good Thing because it means
that B5 3.0 has a built-in audience before it even starts production.
They also realize that True Believers will do a lot of the marketing and
promotion for them, thereby saving SciFi some much-needed cash. SciFi
has some ambitious plans, and anything they save means more money for
another project. You don't think Dennis Hopper's services come cheaply,
do you?
CRUSADE, in its previous incarnation, is not coming back. RANGERS might
well cover some of CRUSADE's subject matter, but you really don't think
that Skiffy can afford to produce two versions of B5, do you? If the
CRUSADE reruns continue to pull in decent numbers for a stripped show,
*and* if RANGERS does fairly well, there should be one, maybe two
CRUSADE movies. These movies will tie in with the RANGERS TV show,
which has better than even odds of starting Real Soon Now.
Think about this for a minute: would it be fiscally sound to have three
programs on your network that are basically the same thing? (Yes, I
know what you're thinking: think like a Suit for a minute.) It would be
too much of a good thing. Why dilute your overall numbers with three
versions of Babylon5 when you can pull in greater numbers with a single
series?
Expect to see a lot more merchandising. SciFi realize that Truly
Devoted Fans will pony up their lunch money for any little gimcrack
featuring their idols. (Look at some of the crap in their store.)
Don't think for a moment that SciFi isn't keenly aware of the bottom
line. Everything sound swell right now, but if JMS doesn't produce the
numbers they want, they'll toss him out like yesterday's newspaper. He
can't afford to pitch fits as he's done in the past if he wants to
continue to produce stories in the B5 universe. Skiffy wnats to be the
Ultimate Master of the Skiffy Universe, and they'd sell their mothers
into white slavery to achieve their goals.
I haven't heard anything about the main cast members, but it sounds as
if most of them will be relative unknowns.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
Anyway, that's the whole post. Didn't mean to do the whole thing, but since I
know some of us avoid other NGs (out of a great deal of common sense if you ask
me) I thought it might be worth at least a look.
Anyone have any idea of its validity?
Thanks,
Lisa
"In the end, there is always the sunrise..."
Matthew Vincent
>Joe (JMS), sometimes we have to pull back & rest, even when we don't
>want to. I had to do this a few years ago. I didn't want to--I wanted
>to keep fighting my battles. If I had continued fighting, though, I
>honestly don't know if I would still be alive today. I was depressed,
>exhausted, & ready to end it all.
I'm glad that you didn't, and I can see that you won't now that you've
faced this for what it is. Life doesn't have to be as conditional as
we think it is - we don't need the coping strategies we use as much as
we think we need them. In _Shadow Dancing_, Franklin talks about
appreciating what he is: "alive - everything else is negotiable".
>I finally just had to give up the
>battle & try to heal. This is something I had to do on my own--no one
>could've told me to do it because of my stubborn nature. You know what?
>It was tough at first, but after that, I felt alive again, & things are
>pretty good now.
That's good to hear. I haven't been suicidal to the point of coming
close to attempting it, but I've felt that sense of despair you talk
about, and it's been getting better for me too. I recall Sandoval
Bey's comments about how suicide is often a way of saying "I'll show
them" - I'll show them how much I'm hurting, they'll see how real this
is. Perhaps related to overcompensating for people neglecting and
ignoring one's more reasonable cries for help due to them not wanting
to deal with it. One of the problems with dismissing suicidal talk as
"just" a cry for help is that many people *complete* an act of suicide
as a cry for help. That's probably why they usually leave a note
rather than just disappearing.
>Things actually can work out in the end.
Even when reason tells us otherwise, it can be helpful to think back
to certain lines in B5. Especially "if you're falling off a cliff, you
may as well attempt to fly - there's nothing to lose in trying".
Matthew
Joseph DeMartino
Flavor because a happy JMS won't wander off and start a series somewhere
else. <
Well since he already *has* started at least one (and possibly two) series
somewhere else, I guess they just wasted a lot of money on Chapstick. And
while Sci-Fi may *want* to green light "Rangers" before the film is even
dry, they're not going to be able to do much if the stikes happen on
schedule. (May 2nd for the writers, July 1st for the actors.) And they
know this. Nor would having two "B5" series (the reruns don't count)
running as weekly show in prime time put them off. Plenty of stations took
"TNG" and "Deep Space Nine" in syndication, and would have killed to get the
"TOS" reruns as well. This guy sounds like an insider wannabe covering a
lack of hard facts with a smart-ass prose style and a tough-guy attitude
that is probably covering bottomless insecurity.
Me, I'll wait for the next press release.
Regards,
Joe
Jms at B5
>inside sources.
Except, of course, there is ZERO information in the post, and 100% personal
opinion. It doesn't even qualify as a rumor, it's just one guy spouting off
(and some of the things said sound awfully familiar to me).
Basically: he's just one more loudmouth spouting off to try and ruin the party.
Dave Thomer
>He isn't as close to the stories as he was with B5, and they aren't as
>meticulously planned. I trust there will be a writing staff on both shows.
OK, but let's look at this realistically. Three shows, with 22 episode
seasons, let's say. If he writes half of each season, that's 33 episodes.
If he writes a third of each season, that's still 21-22 episodes -- the same
number he wrote during each season of B5. Except now, he's gotta do
rewrites and supervision of freelance and staff scripts -- unless JMS has
somehow eliminated his need to make sure all the characters speak with a
consistent voice. Plus he's gonna be hiring directors, supervising
production design and all that other stuff. Even if he's not quite as hands
on and meticulous as with B5, that's gonna take some time and energy. Plus
he's dealing with multiple studios, and he has other writing assignments,
etc., etc. And JMS is a guy who cares, passionately, about his stuff.
Maybe he won't obsess over any of these shows like he did over B5, but he's
still gonna be getting heavily involved, and I think there's some chance of
it getting to be a bit much. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just
saying that I'm curious as to what concrete steps are going to be taken to
handle this abundance of riches.
--
Dave Thomer
This Is Not News - www.notnews.org
Philosophy, public affairs, and pop culture
Mac Breck
My guess: Delegation. After all these years of B5 and Crusade, he's put
together a group of people he can trust, who know what he wants.
Pål Are Nordal
>
> Except now, he's gotta do
> rewrites and supervision of freelance and staff scripts
That's what story editors and writer/producers are for.
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
Patrick MARCEL
> Basically: he's just one more loudmouth spouting off to try and ruin the
> party.
Not to be overly nitpicky... But wasn't Podkayne Fries a girl, in the
Heinlein novel? Why is this one a "he"?
Patrick
--
Reason is only a drug, and its effects cannot be permanent.
- Hope Mirrlees -
Pål Are Nordal
>
> Not to be overly nitpicky... But wasn't Podkayne Fries a girl, in the
> Heinlein novel? Why is this one a "he"?
Podkayne's message was prefaced by:
"Note that this is a rumor, passed on to me by an insider. Don't shoot
the messenger because I'm just posting gossip ..."
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
Patrick MARCEL
> Patrick MARCEL wrote:
>> Not to be overly nitpicky... But wasn't Podkayne Fries a girl, in the
>> Heinlein novel? Why is this one a "he"?
> Podkayne's message was prefaced by:
> "Note that this is a rumor, passed on to me by an insider. Don't shoot
> the messenger because I'm just posting gossip ..."
Yup. I read that. Still doesn't explain why a Podkayne would be a he.
Patrick
--
I used to be Snow White, but I drifted.
- Mae West -
Pål Are Nordal
>
> Yup. I read that. Still doesn't explain why a Podkayne would be a he.
Well, I assumed jms was talking about the "insider", not Podkayne.
Patrick MARCEL
> Patrick MARCEL wrote:
>> Yup. I read that. Still doesn't explain why a Podkayne would be a he.
> Well, I assumed jms was talking about the "insider", not Podkayne.
Hmmm... Fair enough. Might be the case, indeed.
Lisa Coulter
Point taken. I'll treat him as such in the future.
Lisa
Joseph DeMartino
> Well, I assumed jms was talking about the "insider", not Podkayne. <
Of course, there's no particular reason for assuming the *insider* is a
"he", either. <g> I know, generic "he" I wish that the English language
would either develop a decent neutral personal pronoun of that people would
learn to accept the language as it is and not be so friggin' *touchy* about
its imperfections. <g>
Regards,
Joe
Hal Peterson
Lisa> ... Jms at B5 says...
>> Basically: he's just one more loudmouth spouting off to try and
>> ruin the party.
Lisa> Point taken. I'll treat him as such in the future.
Uh...`She's?' `Her?' Podkayne of Mars was female.
--
Hal Peterson Bloomington, MN, USA
Patrick MARCEL
> I wish that the English language
> would either develop a decent neutral personal pronoun of that people would
> learn to accept the language as it is and not be so friggin' *touchy* about
> its imperfections. <g>
As I said, it's not a matter of sexism, or being *touchy* about a generic
"he". It's just that the only name mentioned seems to me to be feminine,
hence my surprise at the "he".
Please, let's not drag this simple remark into a debate about whether a
generic "he" is admissible or not.
Joseph DeMartino
generic "he" is admissible or not. <
And please let's not make a general comment not even *addressed* to you into
a topic of debate.
Joe
TJ
>"TNG" and "Deep Space Nine" in syndication
Too bad my stupid UPN owns the rights and never airs them. I know this because
they used to air them, and now only voyager reruns are on.
Stupid KCOP. Los Angeles is not a trek-friendly area. Its so not fair, every
where else somebody's doing at least TNG or DS9 reruns.
TJ
Andrew Timson
news:20010421151433...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
The Detroit UPN station has the Voyager & TNG rerun rights... but they run
them at midnight & 1 AM respectively. There's *no* way I'd stay up that
late, even for B5.
Andrew Swallow
<jdem...@bellsouth.net> writes:
[snop]> I wish that the English language
>would either develop a decent neutral personal pronoun [snip]
Try -
he, she, it zhe
his, hers, its, zhes
Andrew Swallow
Lisa Coulter
Hangs head in embarrassment.
Sorry!
Lisa
Pelzo63
>Stupid KCOP. Los Angeles is not a trek-friendly area. Its so not fair,
>every
>where else somebody's doing at least TNG or DS9 reruns.
KCOP, now there's a respectable station, everytime i tell someoen from out of
town what their upcoming headlines are for the news, they ask if i'm watching
an episode of "Real Sex" on HBO.
P.S., glad to see you can now post to the group. :-)
..Chris
Podkayne Fries
wrote:
>Le 21/04/01 10:49, P=E5l Are Nordal a =E9crit =A0:
>
>> Patrick MARCEL wrote:
>
>>> Not to be overly nitpicky... But wasn't Podkayne Fries a girl, in the
>>> Heinlein novel? Why is this one a "he"?
>
>> Podkayne's message was prefaced by:
>
>> "Note that this is a rumor, passed on to me by an insider. Don't shoot
>> the messenger because I'm just posting gossip ..."
>
>Yup. I read that. Still doesn't explain why a Podkayne would be a he.
>
St. Podkayne was a Martian. In PODKAYNE OF MARS, Poddy states that a
Martian's gender is a matter of opinion. <g>
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
Opera is blood sport. Baseball is for pussies, relatively speaking. --
James Jorden, Message-ID: <3903549F...@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
TJ
>them at midnight & 1 AM respectively. There's *no* way I'd stay up that
>late, even for B5.
video tape it and watch it the next day when you have nothing to do...thats
what I always did with TOS reruns when it was syndicated, and B5 when it was on
7 and 8 am every saturday or wahtever on tnt.
UPN13 shows voyager at midnight every weeknight, and it has a syndicated one
saturday nights at 9...I dont know how they do that...I thought it was either
strip or weekend.
<shrugs>
TJ
Podkayne Fries
>
>Except, of course, there is ZERO information in the post, and 100%
>personal opinion. It doesn't even qualify as a rumor, it's just one guy
>spouting off (and some of the things said sound awfully familiar to me).
>
>Basically: he's just one more loudmouth spouting off to try and ruin the
>party.
Um, no. I posted what I'd been told, and posted it to rec.arts.sf.tv.
For the most part, you people don't belong to that group and missed most
of the subtext of the post when it was posted here - without my
knowledge or permission, I might add. It's interesting that my post has
generated a good discussion in rec.arts.sf.tv, but has been used over
here by some to lob pretty lame flames in my general direction.
I am not trying to "ruin the party", as you put it. Try rereading my
post, as well asthe discussion it's generated in rec.arts.sf.tv, and
you'll see that other people understood the point I was trying to make.
The B5 universe has a built-in fan base. In online and fannish circles,
the name "B5" has become synonymous with "quality sci-fi drama".
"Brand recognition" is vital to the continued success of Scifi. This
isn't a Bad Thing!
As for Lisa Coulter ... Lisa, you should have asked for my permission
before posting this over here.
TJ
>KCOP, now there's a respectable station,
yea, right. Maybe when they showed DS9 and B5 on thursday nigths at 8 and 9
back in the day...but i never watched B5 til TNT...I heard about it, but I
never watched it. That was back when we actually had weeknight TNG reruns at 7
pm...so I was a much bigger trekkie then when we actually could see the
episodes on TV...but KCOP...yea there so respectable...they dont even dish out
the money to put themselves available on DirecTV...Even KCAL 9 which isnt even
affiliated with UPN or anything comes through on DirecTV....
TJ
PS...A mod said AOL6 is broken or something...but I can reply to posts and
where it says send via mail...I just change the email address it has to
b5mod@deepthot
TJ
Pelzo63
> KCAL 9 which isnt even
>affiliated with UPN or anything comes through on DirecTV....
well, my "respectible station" line was a joke, KCOP is one of the most
annoying stations out there. as for kcal, they're technically a
"superstation", which is different from a network afifliate, they're like wwor,
wgn, and tbs, a broadcast station that gets on cable
...Chris
Patrick MARCEL
> St. Podkayne was a Martian. In PODKAYNE OF MARS, Poddy states that a
> Martian's gender is a matter of opinion. <g>
I stand corrected. :-)
Pål Are Nordal
>
> So, someone referring to themselves as Podkayne Fries wrote in
> reply...
> "Um, no. I posted what I'd been told, and posted it to rec.arts.sf.tv.
> For the most part, you people don't belong to that group and missed most
>
> Don't belong to that group? Says who?
Netiquette. And the fact that the two groups have quite different
styles, even if there's an overlap in regulars. Something that goes well
in one group, does not necessarily go well in another.
It's kinda like why I would not go into a US environmental expo wearing
a t-shirt that has a picture of whale in a targeting scope with the
caption "Kill the whales - Intelligent people need intelligent food".
> And you miss the point that he is trying to make, that the rumor you
> posted is such utter gibberish that it doesn't deserve a single second
> of thought spent on it.
I do think that there are a few valid points in it, but much of if it
plain wrong. However, it did start an interesting discussion on rast,
which IMO more than justifies it's existence there.
Lisa Coulter
>
>On 20 Apr 2001 20:42:10 -0700, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Except, of course, there is ZERO information in the post, and 100%
>>personal opinion. It doesn't even qualify as a rumor, it's just one guy
>>spouting off (and some of the things said sound awfully familiar to me).
>>
>>Basically: he's just one more loudmouth spouting off to try and ruin the
>>party.
>
>Um, no. I posted what I'd been told, and posted it to rec.arts.sf.tv.
>For the most part, you people don't belong to that group and missed most
>of the subtext of the post when it was posted here - without my
>knowledge or permission, I might add. It's interesting that my post has
>generated a good discussion in rec.arts.sf.tv, but has been used over
>here by some to lob pretty lame flames in my general direction.
>
>I am not trying to "ruin the party", as you put it. Try rereading my
>post, as well asthe discussion it's generated in rec.arts.sf.tv, and
>you'll see that other people understood the point I was trying to make.
>
>The B5 universe has a built-in fan base. In online and fannish circles,
>the name "B5" has become synonymous with "quality sci-fi drama".
>"Brand recognition" is vital to the continued success of Scifi. This
>isn't a Bad Thing!
>
>As for Lisa Coulter ... Lisa, you should have asked for my permission
>before posting this over here.
>
I have already apologized publicly to you on rasftv regarding this. I do so
again here.
However, what I did was what I would do if I was authoring a paper and wanted to
include a comment - quote it in toto and attribute it to the author.
So it is at least somewhat reasonable for me to assume that that would be
adequate here.
In any case, I am sorry you were offended by my use of and attribution of your
words without your prior consent.
Lisa
TJ
>well, my "respectible station" line was a joke, KCOP is one of the most
>annoying stations out there. as for kcal, they're technically a
>"superstation", which is different from a network afifliate, they're like
>wwor,
>wgn, and tbs, a broadcast station that gets on cable
I never heard of WWOR....but I thought KCAL was just LA Local...they dont ever
play anything besides talk shows, sports, and news...I dont watch them that
much...heh...WGN used to be a WB affiliate nationally (but it couldnt play DS9
on its national station!)...it played the WB shows here, just earlier, but I
guess all the local affiliates made them stop?
I dont think I'll ever understand all that TV stuff.
:D
TJ
Andrew Timson
> >The Detroit UPN station has the Voyager & TNG rerun rights... but they
run
> >them at midnight & 1 AM respectively. There's *no* way I'd stay up that
> >late, even for B5.
>
> video tape it and watch it the next day when you have nothing to
do...thats
> what I always did with TOS reruns when it was syndicated, and B5 when it
was on
> 7 and 8 am every saturday or wahtever on tnt.
I don't have the time the next day, usually... sleep + eating + school +
schoolwork (some of which I can do in front of the TV, but there's stuff on
that I haven't seen most of that I usually do it during) = not enough other
time.
> UPN13 shows voyager at midnight every weeknight, and it has a syndicated
one
> saturday nights at 9...I dont know how they do that...I thought it was
either
> strip or weekend.
It's probably either both, or a strip with the weekend added. That's what my
local station did for a while.
j...@gte.net
any "insider" status of any kind, it is inside one of the die-hard "TREK IS
ALL" groups that still hate JMS for making an excellent series that has
nothing to do with any variety of trek. I sincerely doubt that any of this
has any validity at all. And as for JMS "pitching fits," I say good for
him! Without his "my program my way or nothing" attitude B5 would not have
been one fourth as good as it was.
Jon
-------------------- original message: -----------------------
Lisa Coulter wrote:
>
> In article <3AE05CEA...@bigfoot.com>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= Are Nordal
> says...
> >
> >James Bell wrote:
> >>=20
> >> I'd personally be happy with a wrap-up of Crusade through a series of 2=
> >-hour
> >> movies. It would be nice to see the series go on but *any* sort of clo=
> >sure
> >> would be better than nothing.
> >
> >I strongly disagree. If you do a token "wrap-up" Crusade, that will be
> >all there is. Without it, there is what could have been...
> >
> >--=20
> >Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
> >
> >P=E5l Are Nordal
> >a_b...@bigfoot.com
> >
>
> Podkayne Fries posted a rumor on rasftv this afternoon claiming to be from
> inside sources. I will quote part of it. Note, I have NO IDEA how accurate
> this is, or in general if Podkayne would have sources that might know this.
>
> Perhaps some of the "net elders" around here can comment.
>
> Podkayne says:
>
> Note that this is a rumor, passed on to me by an insider. Don't shoot
> the messenger because I'm just posting gossip ...
>
> A little background first:
>
> As I'm sure you've all figured out by now, SciFi wants to own
> *everything* marginally skiffy. This explains why they've bought crap
> like FIRST WAVE and BLACK SCORPION. Whether or not the acquisition is
> any good is irrelevant; the idea here is to become the only TV station
> where a sci-fi fan can find sci-fi programming. They're a niche market
> and their goal is to corner the market. AMC, for example, has the
> rights to run the old Godzilla movies and a lot of 50s horror/sci-fi.
> SciFi is counting the days until the contracts expire so that they can
> buy the rights to run all the classic stuff we've grown to love.
>
> Despite his reputation, SciFi wanted JMS to write something for them so
> that they could monopolize most of his time. Yes, he usually has
> several projects going at once, but a weekly series will take most of
> his attention. Upper-level SciFi PHBs have purchased case lots of
> Chapstick in JMS-Ass Flavor because a happy JMS won't wander off and
> start a series somewhere else.
>
> Although JMS doesn't see CRUSADE AND RANGERS as a fiscal repacking of
> BABYLON 5, SciFi does. They see this as a Good Thing because it means
> that B5 3.0 has a built-in audience before it even starts production.
> They also realize that True Believers will do a lot of the marketing and
> promotion for them, thereby saving SciFi some much-needed cash. SciFi
> has some ambitious plans, and anything they save means more money for
> another project. You don't think Dennis Hopper's services come cheaply,
> do you?
>
> CRUSADE, in its previous incarnation, is not coming back. RANGERS might
> well cover some of CRUSADE's subject matter, but you really don't think
> that Skiffy can afford to produce two versions of B5, do you? If the
> CRUSADE reruns continue to pull in decent numbers for a stripped show,
> *and* if RANGERS does fairly well, there should be one, maybe two
> CRUSADE movies. These movies will tie in with the RANGERS TV show,
> which has better than even odds of starting Real Soon Now.
>
> Think about this for a minute: would it be fiscally sound to have three
> programs on your network that are basically the same thing? (Yes, I
> know what you're thinking: think like a Suit for a minute.) It would be
> too much of a good thing. Why dilute your overall numbers with three
> versions of Babylon5 when you can pull in greater numbers with a single
> series?
>
> Expect to see a lot more merchandising. SciFi realize that Truly
> Devoted Fans will pony up their lunch money for any little gimcrack
> featuring their idols. (Look at some of the crap in their store.)
>
> Don't think for a moment that SciFi isn't keenly aware of the bottom
> line. Everything sound swell right now, but if JMS doesn't produce the
> numbers they want, they'll toss him out like yesterday's newspaper. He
> can't afford to pitch fits as he's done in the past if he wants to
> continue to produce stories in the B5 universe. Skiffy wnats to be the
> Ultimate Master of the Skiffy Universe, and they'd sell their mothers
> into white slavery to achieve their goals.
>
> I haven't heard anything about the main cast members, but it sounds as
> if most of them will be relative unknowns.
>
> --
> Regards, Podkayne Fries
>
> Anyway, that's the whole post. Didn't mean to do the whole thing, but since I
> know some of us avoid other NGs (out of a great deal of common sense if you ask
> me) I thought it might be worth at least a look.
>
> Anyone have any idea of its validity?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lisa
>
> "In the end, there is always the sunrise..."
--
I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-- Galileo
Cheryl Martin
>Sounds to me like "Podkayne Fries" is a first class jackass. If there is
>any "insider" status of any kind, it is inside one of the die-hard "TREK IS
>ALL" groups that still hate JMS for making an excellent series that has
>nothing to do with any variety of trek. I sincerely doubt that any of this
>has any validity at all. And as for JMS "pitching fits," I say good for
>him! Without his "my program my way or nothing" attitude B5 would not have
>been one fourth as good as it was.
Podkayne posted what she was told. Your characterization is totally
uncalled for. It's too bad this thread isn't hand-moderated. I would
have bounced it as a Flame.
Remember, heated discussion is okay but this sort of unproductive name
calling is not appropriate.
*sheesh*
Cheryl
--
% Moderator: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, soc.personals %
% http://www.geocities.com/grumpywitch %
Podkayne Fries
wrote:
> <j...@gte.net> said:
>>
>>Sounds to me like "Podkayne Fries" is a first class jackass.
>
>
>Podkayne posted what she was told. Your characterization is totally
>uncalled for. It's too bad this thread isn't hand-moderated. I would
>have bounced it as a Flame.
Thank you for that comment, Cheryl. I appreciate it.
It's interesting to note that I'm getting flamed here, in a newsgroup
that's supposed to be troll- and flame-free, and the same post has
generated a lively disscussion in rec.arts.sf.tv.
I've got one or two more comments to make and then I'm done. I've held
off a bit so that it isn't necessary for the mods to hand-moderate this
thread. <g>
Pål Are Nordal
>
> It's interesting to note that I'm getting flamed here, in a newsgroup
> that's supposed to be troll- and flame-free
See - rastb5m isn't as bad as some would have it!
--
Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/
Pål Are Nordal
a_b...@bigfoot.com
Tammy Smith
It's interesting that my post has generated a good discussion in
rec.arts.sf.tv
My reply:
Funny, about all I seemed to read were a bunch of immature jokes, with
occasional good posts.
Tammy
Richard Corey
>> Crusade is a good show. <<
Darn straight!
I've been enjoying it hugely, and you're to be congratulated for being
innovative and fresh even if, as you say, you were exhausted. I didn't pick
up on that. I thought "whimsical ... and perverse as ever".
I would have loved to follow Gideon and his Box to their logical conclusion.
Eilarson was a trip. Galen had complex possibilities. TNT and the Drakh
have a lot in common!
I'm glad that things have worked out to bring you more options, and I'm
breathlessly eager to see your next triumph unfold and evolve. Thanks for
posting at such length, and so personally. B5, and your online dialog have
made you a friend whether that was your intention or not.
Thanks again.
Rick Corey
Pelzo63
>I never heard of WWOR....
it's a new york station, shown on several cable channels, and part of Dish
network's "superstations" package. and a UPN affiliate i think
>but I thought KCAL was just LA Local...they dont
>ever
>play anything besides talk shows, sports, and news...I dont watch them that
>much..
which is the same as TBS, WGN, and WWOR, remember, tbs plays all kinds of
atlanta sports, wgn does chicago sports, and wwor does some NY sports. :-)
ther'es also KWGN in denver,(as opposed to WWGN in chicago), which is the same,
but spread around less than the others i mentioned
...Chris
Pelzo63
am i the only one who has yet to see podkayne's post, or the repost of
podkayne's post? i wanna see what all the hubbub is about! <g>
..Chris
Paul Gillingwater
> The best scripts of mine per se would probably be
> the two that didn't get produced but which were made available via
> bookface.com, To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line.
Bookface.com is out of business. Any other options? Have you considered e-Books?
ghar...@news.deepthot.org
Podkayne Fries wrote:
>
> It's interesting to note that I'm getting flamed here, in a newsgroup
> that's supposed to be troll- and flame-free
>
In <3AE3819F...@bigfoot.com>,
=?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l?= Are Nordal <a_b...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> See - rastb5m isn't as bad as some would have it!
>
Actually, Podkayne, you're just getting grief on the B-5 topic due to
your fickleness; you who used to get all sweaty over Richard Biggs
now disdain the classic "BABYLON 5" simply because Keith Hamilton
Cobb is running loose over on "ANDROMEDA."
You flighty young girls, falling deeply into lust with one actor
after another, tend to lose credibility after the third or fourth
spate of "Oh my Ghu, isn't he *GORGEOUS*" postings.....
I mean, sure, Keith Cobb is tall, great-looking, and a magnificent
actor... but once you've said that, what else is there? Is he
worth the public embarrassment you're generating for yourself?
After all, it's not like he's really someone worth getting excited
over, like Patricia Tallman, right?
Just have a nice cup of decaffeinated mint oolong, and do some
deep breathing and calm down, okay?
TJ
>atlanta sports, wgn does chicago sports, and wwor does some NY sports. :-)
but TBS and WGN play alot of syndicated rerun shows (alot of the same actually)
liek full house and saved by the bell nad that stuff lol...KCAL 9 doesnt do
anything..it used to air stargate sg-1 I think though.
TJ
Hendrik Boom
[ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
Jms at B5 wrote:
> The reply: "You were *exhausted*. You did five years of backbreaking work, you
> were averaging 3-4 hours sleep a night if you were lucky, you lost your hair,
When I started losing my hair, I was not exhausted by five years of TV
production.
My wife told me, "It's a sign of virility. Men get bald. Women
don't."
One of the nicer things she's ever said to me.
J. Potts
Cheryl Martin <zof...@deepthot.org> wrote:
>Podkayne posted what she was told. Your characterization is totally
>uncalled for. It's too bad this thread isn't hand-moderated. I would
>have bounced it as a Flame.
>
>Remember, heated discussion is okay but this sort of unproductive name
>calling is not appropriate.
Of course there was nothing in the least provocative about Poddy's posting
things like:
> Upper-level SciFi PHBs have purchased case lots of
> Chapstick in JMS-Ass Flavor because a happy JMS won't wander off and
> start a series somewhere else.
> They also realize that True Believers will do a lot of the marketing and
> promotion for them, thereby saving SciFi some much-needed cash.
> He [JMS]
> can't afford to pitch fits as he's done in the past if he wants to
> continue to produce stories in the B5 universe.
There are those that would find some degree of offense in these statements
because of the implications in them. It could even be considered by some as
a Troll (Trolls are posts that seem designed for the specific purpose of
provoking members of the group into responding heatedly. --Moderation FAQ)
Now, granted, the post was not intended for this newsgroup, so in that
respect, I can't fault her for speaking her mind, but I understand why it
might ruffle a few feathers over here.
Be that as it may, it does not make it right for others to respond with
name calling.
--
JRP
"How many slime-trailing, sleepless, slimy, slobbering things do you know
that will *run and hide* from your Eveready?"
--Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson
Wesley Struebing
<snip - for brevity>
>
>There are those that would find some degree of offense in these statements
>because of the implications in them. It could even be considered by some as
>a Troll (Trolls are posts that seem designed for the specific purpose of
>provoking members of the group into responding heatedly. --Moderation FAQ)
>Now, granted, the post was not intended for this newsgroup, so in that
>respect, I can't fault her for speaking her mind, but I understand why it
>might ruffle a few feathers over here.
>
>Be that as it may, it does not make it right for others to respond with
>name calling.
Have to agree with this sentiment. I had intended to stay out of this
since I felt I had nothing much to say about it (and I still feel that
way, mostly), but...
While I feel that the post *read* (note that I said read, my
interpretation - not the post said, what was actually in it) as a
little bit of chain-yanking (which a number of posts here are - so
deal with it<G>)and possibly trollish, possibly a bit PO'ed at SciFi
channel, but not nearly nasty(?) enough to prompt some of the
responses it got.
So, I didn't find the repost agreeable. So what? It certainly didn't
read as an atttack - on either JMS (it was prefaced with "I'm only the
messenger"), or this group. Certainly not on me, personally.
I think people are going a bit sir-crazy after a long winter...
--
-- Some work of noble note, may yet be done - Tennyson's "Ulysses"
--
--Wes Struebing
--
--+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-- str...@americanisp.com
-- ph: 303-343-9006 / FAX: 303-343-9026
-- home page: http://users.americanisp.com/~struebing/
Pelzo63
>KCAL 9 doesnt do
>anything..
well, they air sensationalistic news(though their stuff is actual news, unlike
KCOP which just does sex stories and calls it news), and...err...nevermind
anyways, i was confusing KTLA with KCAL :-), KTLA is the superstation, KCAL is
not, sorry bout that. lol
Podkayne Fries
wrote:
>
>So, someone referring to themselves as Podkayne=A0Fries wrote in
>reply...
I've used this nick for years. I'm not going to change it for a couple
of posts to one group.
>"Um, no. I posted what I'd been told, and posted it to rec.arts.sf.tv.
>For the most part, you people don't belong to that group and missed most
>of the subtext of the post when it was posted here [snip]"
>
>Don't belong to that group? Says who? A good number of the "you
>people" that post in this group post to rec.arts.sf.tv.
Actually, no. Compare a couple of days' posts from both groups.
Looking over the last two days' posts from b5.mod, I spot about half a
dozen people whom I recognize from rec.arts.sf.tv.
I did a quick Google on your name and user ID and can't find any
evidence that *you* are part of rec.arts.sf.tv. You're not Dan Tropea
in disguise, are you? Offhand, I can't think of any WebTVers who post
there.
>Don't belong to that group my ass. When you are in control of who posts
>to what then I'll pretend to give a fuck.
>
Fluffy owns Usenet. Everyone knows that. Also, you lose ten yards for
Use of Bad Language.
>As for any subtext you think we're missing, let me ask you to look at
>the post posted here and compare it to the one you posted on rasftv.
>Nope, not missing a thing.
I didn't say that Lisa snipped any of the post. What I was trying to
point out that a regular in rec.arts.sf.tv would know me, my posting
habits,my opinions, as well as the group's culture and memes. That
subtext makes a big difference in an all-text medium.
>See, I don't know what subtext you think
>we're missing because there is nothing to miss. Lisa didn't snip or
>edit your post and the replies to it on rasftv don't to a damn thing to
>clarify or add "subtext" to it.
When I used the phrase 'fiscal repackaging' in my post to
rec.arts.sf.tv, everyone over there knew *exactly* what I meant - a new
show set in a familiar universe. LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY, JOANIE LOVES
CHACHIE, etc., are all fiscal repackings of HAPPY DAYS, which was,
IIRC, spun off from something else. (I might have the series' orders
wrong; it's been a long time.)
Let's look at what I posted:
I was told that SciFi wants JMS to monopolize JMS' time. This means
lots of JMS- written and produced TV. Explain how this is a bad thing.
I said that SciFi wants to buy up every skiffy program in in existence.
Well, *duh*. Of course they do; it's how they earn a paycheck.
SciFi realizes that RANGERS will have a built-in fan base. That would
be you people. I saw a post here in which someone asked for a
JMS-approved RANGER logo to use on stickers, their web site, etc. You
cannot *buy* this type of advertising. Of *course* this fan base
appealed to SciFi - B5 fans buy lots of books, scripts, toys, etc, which
bring in more money.
I was told that CRUSADE won't be coming back, but that a couple of
movies are a possibility. For those who enjoyed CRUSADE, I'd think that
you would be pleased to hear that the loose ends will be tied up.
>"I am not trying to "ruin the party", as you put it. Try rereading my
>post, as well asthe discussion it's generated in rec.arts.sf.tv, and
>you'll see that other people understood the point I was trying to make."
>
>And you miss the point that he is trying to make, that the rumor you
>posted is such utter gibberish that it doesn't deserve a single second
>of thought spent on it.
Some of you people seem to think that JMS and I know the same people at
SciFi and would therefore here the same things. That would be wrong.
Note, too, that my post was clearly marked as a rumor; it was not etched
into stone tablets and carried down from a mountain.
>Another problem is that a semi-legit point is mixed in with this
>so-called rumor. The meaning became lost in something somebody else
>supposedly told you. If you want to make a point based on something,
>try differentiating your work from theirs, because the way you wrote it,
>it seems like you made up the whole damned thing, rumors and points.
Next time, I'l be sure to tape any telephone conversations or save chat
logs and post them verbatim - after getting your explicit approval as to
each and every statement's veracity, of course.
TJ
>not, sorry bout that. lol
>
yea..I can see that...It plays all the syndicated stuff that WGN plays.
KTLA also is the WB.
TJ
Lisa Coulter
Sometimes spouses surprise one, don't they? My husband just told our oldest
daughter that Mommy only started to
go gray after she was born. I thought that was pretty nice, too. Especially
since she wants me to dye it and I have no
interest in doing so.
Lisa
Andrew
news:KogF6.3342$QV4.2...@www.newsranger.com...
Yeah, well, in my mom's case that's actually true, though. (Well, ok, so it
was the second-oldest kid, my younger sister, but still...)
Andrew
==================================================
Well, Ambassador, what *do* you want? It's impolite to just tell me "They
aren't for you," and walk off...
<snip>
Lisa Coulter
>
>"Lisa Coulter" <lisa_c...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:KogF6.3342$QV4.2...@www.newsranger.com...
>> In article <3AE445D6...@topoi.pooq.com>, Hendrik Boom says...
>> >
>> > [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-15" character set. ]
>> > [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
>> > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>> >
>> >Jms at B5 wrote:
>> >
>> >> The reply: "You were *exhausted*. You did five years of backbreaking
>work, you
>> >> were averaging 3-4 hours sleep a night if you were lucky, you lost your
>hair,
>> >
>> >When I started losing my hair, I was not exhausted by five years of TV
>> >production.
>> >My wife told me, "It's a sign of virility. Men get bald. Women
>> >don't."
>> >One of the nicer things she's ever said to me.
>> >
>> >-- hen...@opoi.pooq.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> Sometimes spouses surprise one, don't they? My husband just told our
>oldest
>> daughter that Mommy only started to
>> go gray after she was born. I thought that was pretty nice, too.
>
>Yeah, well, in my mom's case that's actually true, though. (Well, ok, so it
>was the second-oldest kid, my younger sister, but still...)
>
>Andrew
Uh huh. Your sister. I wonder what story SHE tells about this? It could never
have been you. <g>
Lisa
Jessica L. Price
It's *always* the younger siblings. My mom was 31 when she had me and
didn't go grey until she had my sister at 36.