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The power of B5 fans - from jms

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Jms at B5

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Dec 4, 2001, 7:24:58 PM12/4/01
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One thing I've always tried to do was to avoid obvious promotion; I like
talking about the writing of a show, the making of a show, what I liked (or
didn't) like about the end result...going out there and blatantly saying "Hey,
watch our show!" is something I've never been comfortable with, only because I
think people are smart enough to make up their own minds. If it's something
you want to see, you'll see it; if it ain't, you won't. ("If you like that
sort of thing, it's the sort of thing you'll like." Abraham Lincoln.)

One thing, however, is self-evident about the coming broadcast of The Legend of
the Rangers: if enough people tune it, there will be a series. If enough
don't, there won't.

At conventions, I'm asked constantly when more B5 stuff will be coming down the
pike. I've always said it's in the hands of the networks and the studios.
This time, it's the fans who have the power to make that decision. If every B5
fan tunes in, it happens. It's really that simple and straightforward.

The rest I leave happily to your own disrection.

jms

(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)


Roseann

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:14:11 AM12/5/01
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WhooHoo!!!! I'm there. Joe, if this does take off as a new series, is it
possible the fan club could make a comeback, or is too soon to say?

Thanks for taking the time to keep us in the loop.

Roseann


Pål Are Nordal

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Dec 5, 2001, 10:34:12 AM12/5/01
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Jms at B5 wrote:

>
> At conventions, I'm asked constantly when more B5 stuff will be coming down the
> pike. I've always said it's in the hands of the networks and the studios.
> This time, it's the fans who have the power to make that decision. If every B5
> fan tunes in, it happens. It's really that simple and straightforward.

Yes... And this time we certainly can't claim that the suits aren't
doing their part.


Tammy Smith

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Dec 5, 2001, 11:46:22 AM12/5/01
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If SFC would hurry up & send me my Rangers t-shirt, I will be wearing it
to help advertise the movie. I want Rangers to be a success, so I will
do whatever I can to promote it.

Tammy


Hank Arnold

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:18:09 AM12/5/01
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Nolo problemo........ My wife is already been warned that this is "Super
Bowl" style time. Leave the snacks and leave me alone..... They'll have to
tear my cold dead fingers off the remote to stop me......

--
Regards,
Hank Arnold
"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011204192458...@mb-mq.aol.com...

Birgit Schindlbeck

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Dec 5, 2001, 7:15:09 AM12/5/01
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Well, all I can say about Legend of the Rangers is:
I'm sure as hell gonna watch it if it ever makes it over here, to Germany! :-)

See you!
Birgit


Aisling Willow Grey

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Dec 5, 2001, 2:45:33 PM12/5/01
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SciFi is doing well to involve the fans -- we all have a keen interest
in seeing this pilot turn into a series! -- but like Tammy, I too am
concerned and anxious about getting the promotional materials from them
(the t-shirts, the car-wrap, the postcards) already! I'm waiting to do
my Christmas shopping until my car is wrapped so that I can drive my
sweet little 6-cylinder promotional tool into heavily-trafficked
shopping areas, and talk about the show to anyone who asks why my car
looks like that.

I think you can rest assured that if there is _anything_ any of us can
do to ensure that this series is picked up, it will be done. As for
watching the show -- well, that's a no-brainer.

Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
please! please!) :-D

Aisling Grey

Mac Breck

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Dec 5, 2001, 4:35:22 PM12/5/01
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You and me both!


http://members.tripod.co.uk/macbreck/photoalbum/images/B5_Crusade_LOTR3Scr.j
pg

...and...

http://members.tripod.co.uk/macbreck/photoalbum/images/Rangers.jpg

...have been in the back window of my car since October (no signs of fading
yet either). I guess that Alps MD-5000 really *is* pretty fade resistant
<g>.


I also have the following message on the rear side windows of my car:

http://members.tripod.co.uk/macbreck/photoalbum/images/B5_Crusade_LOTR3Scr.j
pg
72 pixel per inch version for quicker viewing

http://members.tripod.co.uk/macbreck/photoalbum/images/B5_Crusade_LOTR3Prt.j
pg
printer version (higher res)


Mac Breck
------------------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/ http://www.b5lr.com/

Jms at B5

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Dec 5, 2001, 4:40:53 PM12/5/01
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>Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
>please! please!) :-D

That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring character,
and see other known B5 characters along the way.

Cheryl Martin

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Dec 5, 2001, 5:40:35 PM12/5/01
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In article <20011205164053...@mb-fc.aol.com>,

Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
>>please! please!) :-D
>

>That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring
>character, and see other known B5 characters along the way.

Yay!

Um....I'd love to see most of the B5 and Crusade
characters..but...er..how about not having Lochley?


Cheryl
--
% This post brought to you by the letter "Z" and the number 42 %
% Cheryl L Martin %
% Moderator: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, soc.personals %
% http://grumpywitch.org %

Jay Denebeim

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Dec 5, 2001, 5:45:07 PM12/5/01
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In article <20011205164053...@mb-fc.aol.com>,
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:

>That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring
>character, and see other known B5 characters along the way.

Hey Joe, how about no Tracy Scoggins, or if you feel you must could it
be in an episode entitled "Lochley's horribly pathetic and painful,
flaming death"?

Jay
--
I'm looking for a job, for my resume please see:
http://www.deepthot.org:2001/denebeim.html

Aisling Willow Grey

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Dec 5, 2001, 5:47:31 PM12/5/01
to
>>Jms at B5 wrote:

>>Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
>>please! please!) :-D
>>
>
> That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring character,
> and see other known B5 characters along the way.<<

YIPPEEEE!!!!

The Great Maker is good; the Great Maker is wise. May the Great Maker
receive many brownies, festive trinkets and a high audience share for
granting us such a blessing!

(And if I didn't make myself clear, HOOOOORAAAAAAYYYY!!!!!!)

Aisling Grey

Jan

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:21:10 PM12/5/01
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Aisling Grey wrote:

<<
I think you can rest assured that if there is _anything_ any of us can
do to ensure that this series is picked up, it will be done. As for
watching the show -- well, that's a no-brainer.>>

Amen! Wish I was getting my car wrapped. I might not let them take it off.

Jan

Jan

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:25:06 PM12/5/01
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Cheryl wrote:

<<..how about not having Lochley?>>

I like Lochley! She seems a lot more human than Sheridan any day!

Jan

Lisa Coulter

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Dec 5, 2001, 2:48:33 PM12/5/01
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jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote in message news:<20011204192458...@mb-mq.aol.com>...

> At conventions, I'm asked constantly when more B5 stuff will be coming down the
> pike. I've always said it's in the hands of the networks and the studios.
> This time, it's the fans who have the power to make that decision. If every B5
> fan tunes in, it happens. It's really that simple and straightforward.
>
> The rest I leave happily to your own disrection.
>
> jms
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)

Well, here's one person who will tune in and do her utmost to get others to
as well! You've never written anything I've seen short of first-class.

Thanks.

Lisa Coulter

Michael P. Casey

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:02:05 PM12/5/01
to

"Jay Denebeim" <dene...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
news:9um81j$r0n$1...@dent.deepthot.org...

>
>
> Hey Joe, how about no Tracy Scoggins, or if you feel you must could it
> be in an episode entitled "Lochley's horribly pathetic and painful,
> flaming death"?

What's so bad about Lochley? Granted, I've never seen any episodes of
Crusade, but on B5 at least she wasn't THAT bad. Or, at least, not as bad
as some of the other actors and actresses to show up. (The Centauri woman
on "Sic Transit Vir" a few nights ago kept me constantly cringing, and Lyta
often has the same effect...)

MPC


Aisling Willow Grey

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Dec 5, 2001, 6:54:04 PM12/5/01
to
>>Jan wrote:

Well, I did find out that G'Kar will be among the characters in the
design, so I'm already scheming to have the designers cut around him
when they remove the wrap. :-)

Aisling Grey

Michael J Wise

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Dec 5, 2001, 7:24:20 PM12/5/01
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Jms at B5 wrote:

> The rest I leave happily to your own disrection.

*WHAT* discression?

Aloha mai Nai`a, making plans for a party on 2002.01.19!
Hmmm... 119 is what you dial if you're in Japan....
--
"Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/
and Usenet Registration handy..."


To...@fred.net

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Dec 5, 2001, 7:53:38 PM12/5/01
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This post on 05 Dec 2001 00:24:58 GMT would probably sound more commanding if Jms at B5 wasn't wearing the Yummy Sushi Pajamas:

: One thing, however, is self-evident about the coming broadcast of The Legend of


: the Rangers: if enough people tune it, there will be a series. If enough
: don't, there won't.

We've been here before, haven't we? Before Algore invented the Internet and
we relied on GEnie to pass word along about TWCNBN.

Time to saddle up again.

Thanks, Joe.

--
To...@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr

* Faith Manages...... But Willow is in Tech Support
* "Hello, girls.... I'm the Easter Bunny!" - Janet Reno, "South Park"
* Look out! If Bender says "ass", Katherine Harris will appear!
* This .sig brought to you by the "Boxleitner/Doyle-2004" Election
Committee.

"Tonight's grudge match: Sabrina v. Willow v. Harry Potter. Discuss."
- Darth Kirby

Mary Kay Bergman 1961-1999 -
http://tvcomedy.about.com/tvradio/tvcomedy/library/weekly/aa111899.htm

Wesley Struebing

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Dec 5, 2001, 8:12:46 PM12/5/01
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On 5 Dec 2001 22:40:35 GMT, zof...@deepthot.org (Cheryl Martin) wrote:

>In article <20011205164053...@mb-fc.aol.com>,
>Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
>>>please! please!) :-D
>>
>
>>That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring
>>character, and see other known B5 characters along the way.
>
>Yay!
>
>Um....I'd love to see most of the B5 and Crusade
>characters..but...er..how about not having Lochley?

Oh, pooh! Spoilsport! Just no more holobrothel seens...<G>
>
>
>Cheryl

--
Some work of noble note, may yet be done - Tennyson's "Ulysses"

Wes Struebing
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
str...@americanisp.com
ph: 303-343-9006
home page: http://silicon.americanisp.net/~struebing/

Andrew

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Dec 5, 2001, 9:21:48 PM12/5/01
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"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011205164053...@mb-fc.aol.com...

> >Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
> >please! please!) :-D
>
> That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring
character,
> and see other known B5 characters along the way.

"Recurring", with a frequency like Morden or Bester, occasionally during
arc-heavy episodes, or "recurring" with a frequency like Vir, every
two-three episodes or more?

--
Andrew
===============
"We live for the one,
we die for the one.
But we *don't* die stupidly."
--Captain David Martel,
_To Live and Die in Starlight_

Chris Schumacher

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Dec 5, 2001, 10:30:49 PM12/5/01
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On 05 Dec 2001 21:40:53 GMT, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:

>>Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
>>please! please!) :-D
>
>That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring character,
>and see other known B5 characters along the way.
>
> jms

How important is this pan to the story? Is it kind of like the
Apocalypse Box in Crusade? Thus is the cook on the ship terribly
important?
Does the pan have its own trading card?
Is there a possibility of the pan being in a relationship with a
member of the cast?
Don't you really wish you had a pan right now, and me within striking
distance?

-==Kensu==-
Oh, that was a typo from the Japanese B5 group; really, the main
character is a piece of bread.

Chris Schumacher

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Dec 5, 2001, 10:34:37 PM12/5/01
to
Or, or, you could say I was being a real pan in the ass!

Or even you could say we ate Utter, and he's in our stomachs!
Ha ha ...Forget that last one.

-==Kensu==-

Lurker

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Dec 5, 2001, 10:49:48 PM12/5/01
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"Cheryl Martin" <zof...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
news:9um7p3$qoo$1...@dent.deepthot.org...

> In article <20011205164053...@mb-fc.aol.com>,
> Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>Now, about keeping G'Kar on if the show goes to series.... (please!
> >>please! please!) :-D
> >
>
> >That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring
> >character, and see other known B5 characters along the way.
>
> Yay!
>
> Um....I'd love to see most of the B5 and Crusade
> characters..but...er..how about not having Lochley?
>
I liked Lochley in Crusade. There, but not always. :-)


E. John Roth III

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Dec 5, 2001, 11:19:32 PM12/5/01
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Jan wrote:

My GF wants her in that cute thing she wore in The Well of Souls... I
guess she IS popular with women.

E. John Roth III


E. John Roth III

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Dec 5, 2001, 11:20:28 PM12/5/01
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Jay Denebeim wrote:

Moderator bias :P

E, John Roth III

E. John Roth III

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Dec 5, 2001, 11:21:25 PM12/5/01
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"Michael P. Casey" wrote:

If you rag on Lyta thats a troll Mods Mods!!!

E. John Roth III

Aisling Willow Grey

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Dec 5, 2001, 11:48:21 PM12/5/01
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>>Chris Schumacher wrote:

Yes...yes. There is a little bit of Uter in all of us.

Aisling Grey

Jay Denebeim

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Dec 6, 2001, 3:36:57 AM12/6/01
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In article <PFxP7.9$H72...@typhoon.nyu.edu>,

Michael P. Casey <mpc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What's so bad about Lochley?

Scoggins actually. She looks like a frog IMO. I also find her really
annoying. Note this is *Scoggins* not the character.

>(The Centauri woman on "Sic Transit Vir" a few nights ago kept me
>constantly cringing, and Lyta often has the same effect...)

Different strokes. I thought she played the part wonderfully.

Andrew Spray

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Dec 6, 2001, 6:50:39 AM12/6/01
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Andrew wrote:

> > That actually would be part of the pan, to have G'Kar as a recurring
> > character, and see other known B5 characters along the way.
>
> "Recurring", with a frequency like Morden or Bester, occasionally during
> arc-heavy episodes, or "recurring" with a frequency like Vir, every
> two-three episodes or more?

If I may throw an opinion onto the fire, then I'd prefer the former. That
way, G'Kar could be important without overshadowing/dominating the
show. Also, to further risk annoying people:), I'd like to add my name to
the 'Lochley wasn't that bad really' group. Besides, given the timescale
no Lochley would mean no Babylon 5 (the location). This may not be a bad
thing - you probably wouldn't want them going there every few weeks, for
example - but nor would you want the station to be totally ignored. After
all, sooner or later, everyone comes to *WHAM*WHAM*WHAM*WHAM*WHAM*

--
Andrew Spray "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The
history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of
that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn
that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -G'Kar


Jan

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Dec 6, 2001, 6:58:59 AM12/6/01
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E. John Roth III wrote:

<<My GF wants her in that cute thing she wore in The Well of Souls... I
guess she IS popular with women.>>

I don't care what she wears, I liked her best sparring with Garibaldi and
matching wits with Gideon.

Jan

E. John Roth III

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Dec 6, 2001, 8:46:15 AM12/6/01
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Jan wrote:

I have used the "I haven't seen intelligence overt or covert" In fact I have
been un-impressed with our intelligence pre-Step. 11. I will with hold
judgment about since then. I really didn't care for the Gideon romance it
seemed forced. Then again the Sheriden/Delenn romace left me cold. Cath was
less kind about that - she said that Delenn would have done better with Zack.

E. John Roth III


Aisling Willow Grey

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Dec 6, 2001, 10:28:50 AM12/6/01
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>>Jan wrote:

Hear, hear.

I don't have the problem with Lochley that so many others seem to have,
and I generally feel vaguely uncomfortable in groups of people
discussing her -- like, there must be something wrong with me for _not_
despising her! So, I'm glad to see some showing for the converse
opinion here.

But I wonder if anyone can give me a quick thumbnail sketch of what's
supposed to be so objectionable about her? TS's acting is fine; she's
got a decent military bearing (more military than that
24-hour-a-day-tea-drinking Picard on TNG, in any case!). What's so bad
about her?

Aisling Grey

James Bell

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Dec 6, 2001, 10:39:22 AM12/6/01
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"Aisling Willow Grey" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
news:3C0F8E9A...@fjordstone.com...

She's not Claudia Christian.

Other than that, she's ok. I liked her better in Crusade than in Season 5
of B5. It is probably a familiarity factor. I didn't particularly like
Ivanova at first, either.

Jim


watkins julia k

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Dec 6, 2001, 11:13:58 AM12/6/01
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"James Bell" <jam...@naxs.com> writes:

>Jim


I can deal with her not being Claudia Christian; nothing else to be done
at that point. I like her better when I pretend the past with Sheridan
doesn't exist. It clutters up his past unnecessarily -- there's no
thematic use for it. I wish jms had come up with another reason why
Sheridan trusts Lochley. There was a couple of awkward scenes and
a few bad jokes, ehh. All the places that I like her a lot have nothing
to do with The Secret.

Julie


Mike Hennebry

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Dec 6, 2001, 11:18:37 AM12/6/01
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In article <3C0F76A7...@oklahoma.net>,

E. John Roth III <jr...@oklahoma.net> wrote:
>seemed forced. Then again the Sheriden/Delenn romace left me cold. Cath was
>less kind about that - she said that Delenn would have done better with Zack.

At one time, this one expected Delenn to get Lennier.

--
Mike henn...@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
Iluvatar is the better part of Valar.

Mike Hennebry

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Dec 6, 2001, 11:27:12 AM12/6/01
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In article <mkzP7.47$Hj7....@news.abs.net>, <To...@Fred.Net> wrote:
>We've been here before, haven't we? Before Algore invented the Internet and
>we relied on GEnie to pass word along about TWCNBN.

Would you quote Al Gore's claim? I've often heard the claim that AG
claimed to have invented the internet, but never the claim itself. I
have also heard that it's just a lie that has drowned out the truth.

>"Tonight's grudge match: Sabrina v. Willow v. Harry Potter. Discuss."
> - Darth Kirby

Why aren't Gandalf or Saruman in the match?

Rob Scott

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Dec 6, 2001, 11:51:21 AM12/6/01
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"James Bell" <jam...@naxs.com> wrote ...

> "Aisling Willow Grey" <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote in message
> > But I wonder if anyone can give me a quick thumbnail sketch of what's
> > supposed to be so objectionable about her?>
>
> She's not Claudia Christian.

I think that's it for me too -- or more to the point, her character isn't
Ivanova.

Every "Lochley" episode just served to remind me that I didn't really *want*
to find out more about this person -- I wanted to know what would have
happened to Ivanova!! Grrrr.

I think the fifth season would have been *much* better with Ivanova. (And
with a bit less telepath agnst.)

Rob Scott

Mac Breck

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Dec 6, 2001, 11:58:48 AM12/6/01
to

I think Pat Tallman was perfect as Lyta, and that actress who played
Lyndisty was perfect in her role as well. With regard to CC as Ivanova, CC
seemed like a natural in that role (perfect casting).

Mac Breck
------------------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/ http://www.b5lr.com/


Mac Breck

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Dec 6, 2001, 12:02:19 PM12/6/01
to

I'm not precisely sure of all the things that cause it, but whenever I see
her as the Captain in B5 or Crusade, I don't see the character, but rather I
see an actor acting. I cannot suspend disbelief enough to see her as really
*in that role*.

It's as if you'd NEVER, EVER see someone who looks like that (big eyes,
sharp, angular features), and sounds like that (husky, smoky voice), AND is
made up like that (i.e. with that much eye makeup; she would have looked
better if she'd been more plain, clean and neat with very little makeup), in
that position. I can see her as a saloon girl in a western, the story of an
up and coming female weight lifter or personal trainer, or in the role she
had on Lois & Clark, but not as an EA Captain in 2261. No offense to JMS,
and I'm certainly no professional TV/Film Critic, but to me, it was just bad
casting. She may be good in other roles, but this isn't the one for her.
It was too much of a stretch. She stands out like a sore thumb, and because
of that, I can't stay *in* the story.

It's as if you wouldn't see that face, that voice, that body, and that
intelligence [1] all in the same person. She might be good as say somebody
who's artificially engineered, but you wouldn't see this combination
occurring in nature.


Similarly, it would look weird to see:

1. a knockout cheerleader as a college senior in electrical engineering, or

2. the worst looking person you remember from high school becoming a top
model immediately after high school.


From the neck up, Scoggins' features are so striking that I have a hard time
noticing anything but that. The brightness and contrast of those features
**has to be** toned down so that they don't dominate the scene. They're
just too bright, harsh, and brassy to notice anything else nearby.

In the following examples, I'm drawn right to her eyes and face, and I'm
riveted there. If I saw her in person, one day later, I wouldn't be able to
tell you what she was wearing unless she was dressed in a clown suit from
the neck down (and I have a photographic memory!). It's as if there's an 8x
neutral density filter covering everything but her head and shoulders.

Examples:

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/0838-rea/scoggins.tra

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/1151/wi20010401_TracyScoggins_Granitz_163927
.jpg

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/0285-hum/scoggins.tra


Don't ask me why I *can* see Ivanova in that position (EA Commander or
Captain). CC just seems to "fit" as Ivanova. It just worked. Well,
CC/Ivanova had smoother features, and wasn't made up as harshly. To me,
Ivanova's most attractive look was with her hair pulled back, because it
accentuated her gorgeous.eyes. Still, she just looked smooth and
professional, not overly made up. Yes, Ivanova worked for me, but Lochley
*definitely* didn't.


ps. I'm not trying to insult *anybody* by this. I'm just trying to explain
it, in my own, admittedly ham-handed, layman's way.

[1] I seem to remember reading somewhere that she's a pretty smart cookie.

Mac Breck

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Dec 6, 2001, 12:05:18 PM12/6/01
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Spray" <ap...@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: The power of B5 fans - from jms


> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Andrew wrote:
>
> Also, to further risk annoying people:), I'd like to add my name to
> the 'Lochley wasn't that bad really' group. Besides, given the timescale
> no Lochley would mean no Babylon 5 (the location).

The role of Lochley *could be* recast. No, I don't see it happening, but it
could be done.

WRWhite963

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Dec 6, 2001, 12:36:31 PM12/6/01
to
>Would you quote Al Gore's claim? I've often heard the claim that AG
>claimed to have invented the internet, but never the claim itself. I
>have also heard that it's just a lie that has drowned out the truth.

About five minutes of gandering a google search came up with a lot of info, but
the following link:

http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

... seems to be a good overview. Gore was talking about his role in
encouraging the Internet as it developed into the 1990's - starting his
interest around 1988. Of course, the internet existed long before then, so
it's really a matter of semantics. Unfortunately for Gore, his phrasing made
it seem like he was taking credit for inventing the concept, rather than
championing the development. Poor choice of words on his point.

The quote (from a transcription part of the document link above) is:

GORE: Well, I will be offering - I'll be offering my vision when my campaign
begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be
compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to
every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took
the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven
to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection,
improvements in our educational system.

WRW

Cheryl Martin

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Dec 6, 2001, 12:54:12 PM12/6/01
to
In article <9uo3c9$8l5$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,

That's not it for me. And I don't agree that Scoggins acting is fine.
Every time she was on the screen, I had to restrain myself from
switching the channel or fastforwarding. I can't really put my finger
on it...maybe it's her voice or her look or the way she says her
lines. I don't find it believable and I do find it irritating.

I don't particularly care for Sheridan either but I think the Box did
a fine job with the character. I have/had no trouble watching
Sheridan (except for the "romantic" scenes with Delenn).

Cheryl
(maybe I'm a shadow minion)
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Dylan Hankel

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Dec 6, 2001, 3:27:37 PM12/6/01
to
The fan campaign is essential of course but Sci Fi needs to really step up
the TV ads for LoTR and hype it a lot more on the Sci Fi airwaves too. They
seem to hype "80s horror movie of the week" more than they do their own
shows. People really need to have the show ingrained into their minds so
it'll truly catch on and take hold. Otherwise everything else they're doing
is great and I was blown away by the fact that a Rangers trailer will be in
front of Lord of the Rings.

Dylan H.

James Bell

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Dec 6, 2001, 1:44:42 PM12/6/01
to
"WRWhite963" <wrwhi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011206123631...@mb-ca.aol.com...

> >Would you quote Al Gore's claim? I've often heard the claim that AG
> >claimed to have invented the internet, but never the claim itself. I
> >have also heard that it's just a lie that has drowned out the truth.
>
> About five minutes of gandering a google search came up with a lot of
info, but
> the following link:
>
> http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/
>
> ... seems to be a good overview. Gore was talking about his role in
> encouraging the Internet as it developed into the 1990's - starting his
> interest around 1988. Of course, the internet existed long before then,
so
> it's really a matter of semantics. Unfortunately for Gore, his phrasing
made
> it seem like he was taking credit for inventing the concept, rather than
> championing the development. Poor choice of words on his point.

It is interesting what an interpretation can do to a statement. While many
interpret the statement as Gore claiming to invent the Internet, others,
knowing he did no such thing of course, claim he didn't mean it that way but
rather, that he "championed the development" to use your phrase.

Why not let the statement stand on its own:

>During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in
creating the Internet.

He meant what he said. He didn't mean he "invented" the Internet and he
didn't mean he "championed the development" of the Internet. He meant he
"took the initiative in creating the Internet," because that is what he
said. He was incredibly and stupidly wrong but I think he probably believed
what he was saying. He was probably on some committee at some point that
probably allocated some funds to something relating to computers and Al
looked back in retrospect and assumed the Internet was a result of his
Congressional work.

He neither invented the Internet nor championed its development. Either of
these two other interpretations would make him a liar. I prefer to give him
the benefit of the doubt and just consider him as stupid.

Jim


James Bell

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Dec 6, 2001, 1:47:56 PM12/6/01
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"Rob Scott" <spam...@lagrangepoint.com> wrote in message
news:dmNP7.4611$dq5.2...@ratbert.tds.net...

I think the telepath plot was fine. It was the characterization of Byron
and his followers that made it weak. If the rogues were more like the early
season two rogues rather than walking shampoo commercials it might have been
better.

Jim


Otto Martin

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Dec 6, 2001, 3:23:36 AM12/6/01