Tonight's Jeremiah

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David Chapple

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Mar 16, 2002, 12:02:38 AM3/16/02
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Spoiler space

That should be enough.
Well, maybe more


Okay
Anyway, great episode tonight. Also was Captain Iron part of the Joe's
Comics line?
I'm glad the death of Captain Iron wasn't the cliched slow motion herioc
scene that we've seen(sorry) before.
Thanks again JMS
Dave


Jan

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Mar 16, 2002, 4:36:15 PM3/16/02
to
David Chapple wrote:

<<Spoiler space

<<Okay
Anyway, great episode tonight. Also was Captain Iron part of the Joe's
Comics line?>>

Not that I'm aware of so far.

<<I'm glad the death of Captain Iron wasn't the cliched slow motion herioc
scene that we've seen(sorry) before.
Thanks again JMS>>

Agreed. Also, this time I was more conscious of the music and it was very
appropriate.

In typical JMS fashion, we came to care about Captain Iron and Megan in a short
period of time as well as finding out a lot about Erin in the way that she
backs up Markus. I'd like to see more of Megan. I can see several ways that
she could be shown as part of Markus' life though never leaving her isolation
room.

Looking forward to next week.
Jan

Brian Osserman

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Mar 16, 2002, 5:01:01 PM3/16/02
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Jan <jbon...@aol.com> wrote:
>David Chapple wrote:
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><<I'm glad the death of Captain Iron wasn't the cliched slow motion herioc
>scene that we've seen(sorry) before.
>Thanks again JMS>>

>Agreed. Also, this time I was more conscious of the music and it was very
>appropriate.

>In typical JMS fashion, we came to care about Captain Iron and Megan in a short
>period of time as well as finding out a lot about Erin in the way that she
>backs up Markus. I'd like to see more of Megan. I can see several ways that
>she could be shown as part of Markus' life though never leaving her isolation
>room.

Am I the only one who felt that this episode was on the heavy-handed
side? I still enjoyed it, but I didn't think it was as good as the pilot.
I think perhaps it was kind of rushed -- I personally didn't find myself
caring about Captain Iron by the time he died; he simply got too little
non-buffoonish screen time before it happened. The episode also seemed on the
predictable side -- within about two minutes of Captain Iron's appearance, I
had decided he'd be dead by the end, and my first reaction to Megan was "oh,
an opportunity to find a cure," which kind of reduced the impact of her
speech way later, not to mention all the politicking in between.
A couple more peeves about the episode -- I hope the "Jeremiah finds
someone who knows something about Valhalla Sector but dies before saying
anything" doesn't happen every episode, or it will drastically lose its
impact. Once was good (not to mention extremely believably set up), but this
time felt far more artificial, particularly in that, as far as I can
remember being shown, Jeremiah didn't then ask Captain Iron's sister if she
knew anything that might be helpful. I hope we see some explanation of how
Captain Iron was connected to Valhalla Sector in the future. Lastly, and
this is more a pet peeve than a criticism of the episode (given the
circumstances, I can't really argue with the believability), can't people
get it through their heads that viruses and bacteria are fundamentally
different? At the least, if one wants to have the slightest hope of curing
something, knowing whether it's a virus or bacteria would be kind of
necessary. IIRC, Markus says the Big Death was caused by one, and Megan says
it was caused by the other. Oh, and while I'm on the subject, why would they
dissect her to try to find a cure? As far as I understand of current medical
technology, it's hard to picture how dissecting a carrier would accomplish
much, and it would be awfully dangerous to kill your only sample. That added
to the general feel of heavy-handed artificial drama, which JMS is normally
so good at avoiding. Oh, and lastly, I don't really see how the solution at
the end to not tell the council about Megan makes much sense. The whole
theme of the episode is that keeping secrets from people you trust isn't a
good idea, and if you simply explain that there's reason to believe the Big
Death will return regardless, and she's your best chance for a cure, it's
hard to picture not getting pretty wholehearted support.
All of that said, I liked the plot of the episode, I liked Megan, and it
had some great lines. I was just kind of disappointed with it after the
pilot, which I liked a lot, and nearly uniformly (except for Kurdy and
Simon's ex, which kind of made me groan).

>Looking forward to next week.

Definitely. IIRC, this is the episode that JMS has been singling out as
indicative of being able to do much more than he ever could have on network
TV.

Brian

Jan

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Mar 16, 2002, 7:08:33 PM3/16/02
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osse...@math.mit.edu (Brian Osserman) wrote:
Jan <jbon...@aol.com> wrote:
>David Chapple wrote:
><<Spoiler space


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<<Am I the only one who felt that this episode was on the heavy-handed
side? I still enjoyed it, but I didn't think it was as good as the pilot.

I think perhaps it was kind of rushed..>>

As a second episode I thought it was well done. I'll perhaps expect more as
time goes on. I think that the rushed feeling may have been due to some rather
awkward cuts between scenes (acts?). I haven't decided yet if it's due to the
lack of commercials or something else that they seem more noticeable. I look
forward to the future when we get JMS' trademark three-hours-of
story-in-one-hour emotional roller-coaster rides.

As for heavy handedness, the main thing I noticed was the part at the end where
Jeremiah dwells on the 'one person can change the world/make a difference
theme. This early in the series, though, pointing out the hopeful themes isn't
a bad thing.

<<A couple more peeves about the episode -- I hope the "Jeremiah finds someone
who knows something about Valhalla Sector but dies before saying anything"
doesn't happen every episode, or it will drastically lose its impact. Once was
good (not to mention extremely believably set up), but this time felt far more

artificial,...>>

Actually, I thought it was probably there as much to show why Captain Iron
became as he did as it was to further the mystery of Valhalla Sector. He was
much younger in the flashback than he was when the Big D took his parents so
one assumes that somebody 'came to his rescue'.

One thing to remember is that many of the things that were once common
knowledge (Jesse James, for example) have been lost. For all we know, the term
Valhalla Sector was once as well known to adults as say, Deep Throat. Are
pre-pubescent kids suddenly orphaned and forced to scavange to live likely to
remember? I doubt it.

<< Oh, and lastly, I don't really see how the solution at the end to not tell
the council about Megan makes much sense. The whole theme of the episode is
that keeping secrets from people you trust isn't a
good idea, and if you simply explain that there's reason to believe the Big
Death will return regardless, and she's your best chance for a cure, it's hard
to picture not getting pretty wholehearted support.>>

I tend to disagree here. First, all we know is that the Council isn't being
told *yet* and in a highly inflamatory manner of "I just found out that...!".
Also, since we don't as yet know what, if any, medical research is being done
to find a preventive for a recurrance of the Big D, Megan isn't crucial to the
success of the research. In my view, the Megan story was for exposition into
the characters of Markus and Erin and their relationship. As for the support
issue, I think it's likely that any slightest threat of exposure to the cause
of the Big D would cause widespread panic rather than cool, rational thought as
to the hope for a cure. You may have a better opinion of human nature than I
have, though. I'll admit that the Thunder Mountain folks *should* be better
equipped to deal with any percieved threat, but I'd hate to gamble a woman's
life on that.

<<Definitely. IIRC, this is the episode that JMS has been singling out as
indicative of being able to do much more than he ever could have on network
TV.>>

Indeed, and if one had blinked, one might have missed it. The scene where it
was er...exposed that Captain Iron's sister was only kidnapped for the sake of
rape was nicely done. I hope to see more of the realistic portrayals of how
parts of humanity will/have regressed to it's baser nature while others
struggle to maintain the higher and nobler impulses. We never saw any scenes
showing the after-effects of the kidnapping on Capt. Iron's sister but there
*must* be a reason why she stayed with her cowardly 'husband'. Perhaps for even
the dubious protection he offers.

Wishing JMS would come play with us on this one.

Jan

David Chapple

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Mar 16, 2002, 10:19:35 PM3/16/02
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"Jan" <jbon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020316163615...@mb-cg.aol.com...

> David Chapple wrote:
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> <<Okay
> Anyway, great episode tonight. Also was Captain Iron part of the Joe's
> Comics line?>>
>
> Not that I'm aware of so far.
>

In retrospect I don't think I had phrased that correctly. I was actually
poking fun at the fact that I thought I saw the Joe's Comics in the upper
left-hand corner of the Captain Iron comic that was shown onscreen during
the episode. ; )
Dave


Jan

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Mar 17, 2002, 4:48:57 AM3/17/02
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David Chapple wrote:

OH! Very cool, if so. I missed that and didn't tape the episode so I can't go
back and look. Hope somebody else can verify this. Joe? You there?

Jan


John W. Kennedy

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Mar 17, 2002, 2:37:33 PM3/17/02
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Jan wrote:
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> osse...@math.mit.edu (Brian Osserman) wrote:
> Jan <jbon...@aol.com> wrote:
> >David Chapple wrote:
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> We never saw any scenes
> showing the after-effects of the kidnapping on Capt. Iron's sister but there
> *must* be a reason why she stayed with her cowardly 'husband'. Perhaps for even
> the dubious protection he offers.

Her anger was understandable, but his excuse had some validity, too, if
he really supposed her already dead.... It's not safe to assume that
he's completely useless. (And unexpectedly finding oneself alive when
one expected to be dead can ease an anger considerably.)

--
John W. Kennedy
Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated!
http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/Double%20Falshood.html

Jeff Grass

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Mar 16, 2002, 8:33:38 PM3/16/02
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Brian Osserman wrote:

I thought it was about one person making a sacrifice - making a difference -
changing the world. Captain Iron's sacrifice saved his sister and latter encouraged
one of the kids to 'carry on the good fight'. Megan acknowledges that her very
existence is reason enough for everyone to want her dead - I doubt most who are
fearful of dying
of the Big Death would stop to consider that she also potentially holds the cure
for something that may no longer be a threat, unless of course, she continues to
live.
There's nothing more destructive than uncontrolled emotions. If Megan continues to
live, and if the resources to find a cure can be gathered, it sounds like she
thinks she might die in the process.

Dissection in a medical, or even biochemical context, may not mean grabbing a
scalpel and then slicing and dicing. The last thing anyone doing research wants to
do is
destroy their one and only sample. Being a biochemist myself, I never feel
comfortable working with irreplaceable samples, and I always make sure I have
multiple
backups, stored in multiple freezers, of important samples - when possible. There's
no sadder sound in a lab than the 'oh no' uttered when some drops several months of

work all over the floor.

Dissection could mean a variety of things. For instance taking samples of blood,
skin or other bodily fluids such as mucus (aka snot). It could also mean being
subjected to a variety of tests similar to those done to identify allergies. There
are many more techniques that doctors / researchers use to identify the source of
an illness that don't involve killing the patient. Anybody out there ever
participate in medical studies? Some people just don't like the experience.

I wasn't to concerned about the discrepancy about the Big Death being referred to
as a virus and as a bacterium. Some of the characters may not understand the
difference between a virus and a bacterium. Also, the characters may be reiterating
information that they believe is true, but which is in reality, false. Was the
nature
of the infectious agent identified before the Big Death ran it's course? How many
rumors about the nature of the infectious agent were circulating before everything
broke down?

Then again, maybe I'm wrong...

Jeff

Brian Osserman

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Mar 17, 2002, 5:07:24 PM3/17/02
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Jeff Grass <jag...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
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>I thought it was about one person making a sacrifice - making a difference -
>changing the world. Captain Iron's sacrifice saved his sister and latter
>encouraged
>one of the kids to 'carry on the good fight'.

Agreed that this would be a good one-sentence theme for the episode, but I
think it applies a lot more to Megan than to Captain Iron -- after all,
Captain Iron, as far as we have any reason to believe, succeeded primarily
only in giving his life for his sister's, which is noble, but I'm with Kurdy
that it doesn't exactly qualify as "changing the world." Encouraging the kid
is good, of course, but again, it's one kid, and at this stage, we haven't
seen where, if anywhere, that leads. Well, rereading what you wrote, I
should qualify I'm talking about the 'one person changing the world' theme,
and how much it really applies to the Captain Iron plot. Obviously it's very
much a case of someone's sacrifice making a difference.

>Megan acknowledges that her very
>existence is reason enough for everyone to want her dead - I doubt most who are
>fearful of dying
>of the Big Death would stop to consider that she also potentially holds the cure
>for something that may no longer be a threat, unless of course, she continues to
>live.

This also kind of bugged me. For what I can only assume was supposed to
be dramatic effect, Megan goes from talking about herself only as an angel
of death in one scene to focusing on her ability to one day save the world
in a later one.

>Dissection could mean a variety of things. For instance taking samples of blood,
>skin or other bodily fluids such as mucus (aka snot). It could also mean being
>subjected to a variety of tests similar to those done to identify
>allergies.

I was not aware that this was standard terminology in biomedical circles,
but I don't think it's really relevant here, because Megan is quite clearly
talking about giving her life for the sake of medical research (what was the
line? "my death may be the only meaningful thing I've done with my life?").
It's this aspect that didn't make sense to me, not the word usage, per se
(although if we're assuming that no one in question is a medical expert,
which I think we kind of have to, I think there's no question that the word
'dissection' brings up images of post-mortem slicing and dicing).

>I wasn't to concerned about the discrepancy about the Big Death being
>referred to
>as a virus and as a bacterium. Some of the characters may not understand the
>difference between a virus and a bacterium. Also, the characters may be
>reiterating
>information that they believe is true, but which is in reality, false. Was the
>nature
>of the infectious agent identified before the Big Death ran it's course?
>How many
>rumors about the nature of the infectious agent were circulating before
>everything
>broke down?

Well, yeah, that's why I said I couldn't really argue with it in the
context of the show. But at the same time, it doesn't exactly further the
more immediate cause of getting it through people's heads that there is a
real and important difference. :-)

Brian

Jere Lull

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Mar 17, 2002, 6:13:03 PM3/17/02
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Brian Osserman wrote:

>Jeff Grass <jag...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
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>>I thought it was about one person making a sacrifice - making a difference -
>>changing the world. Captain Iron's sacrifice saved his sister and latter
>>encouraged
>>one of the kids to 'carry on the good fight'.
>>
>
>Agreed that this would be a good one-sentence theme for the episode, but I
>think it applies a lot more to Megan than to Captain Iron -- after all,
>Captain Iron, as far as we have any reason to believe, succeeded primarily
>only in giving his life for his sister's, which is noble, but I'm with Kurdy
>that it doesn't exactly qualify as "changing the world." Encouraging the kid
>is good, of course, but again, it's one kid, and at this stage, we haven't
>seen where, if anywhere, that leads. Well, rereading what you wrote, I
>should qualify I'm talking about the 'one person changing the world' theme,
>and how much it really applies to the Captain Iron plot. Obviously it's very
>much a case of someone's sacrifice making a difference.
>

OR, harking back to a theme in B5: If one nexus is destroyed, another
will step in, and another, and another...

Not all heroes are "the One". Each can change their world, or a portion
of the larger one, depending the viewpoint.

"It's a start".

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 sailing from Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ annotated pics) http://members.dca.net/jerelull/BVI.html


Stanley Friesen

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Mar 17, 2002, 10:48:30 PM3/17/02
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osse...@math.mit.edu (Brian Osserman) wrote:

>Jeff Grass <jag...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
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>>I thought it was about one person making a sacrifice - making a difference -
>>changing the world. Captain Iron's sacrifice saved his sister and latter
>>encouraged
>>one of the kids to 'carry on the good fight'.
>
>Agreed that this would be a good one-sentence theme for the episode, but I
>think it applies a lot more to Megan than to Captain Iron -- after all,
>Captain Iron, as far as we have any reason to believe, succeeded primarily
>only in giving his life for his sister's, which is noble, but I'm with Kurdy
>that it doesn't exactly qualify as "changing the world." Encouraging the kid
>is good, of course, but again, it's one kid, and at this stage, we haven't
>seen where, if anywhere, that leads.

Never hear the phrase "How do you change the world? One person at a
time."? The kid was actually more important as the answer than the
sister. The kid was the future. He showed that Captain Iron's dreams
lived on after he had died.

The peace of God be with you.

Stanley Friesen

Jms at B5

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Mar 17, 2002, 10:10:38 PM3/17/02
to
> Definitely. IIRC, this is the episode that JMS has been singling out as
>> indicative of being able to do much more than he ever could have on network
>> TV.

I believe you're thinking of next week's ep.
jms

(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)


Brian Osserman

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Mar 18, 2002, 5:56:49 PM3/18/02
to
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Definitely. IIRC, this is the episode that JMS has been singling out as
>>> indicative of being able to do much more than he ever could have on network
>>> TV.
>
>I believe you're thinking of next week's ep.

Indeed I am. The original post had this sentence as a followup up to
"looking forward to next week's episode," but this was cut (and
misunderstood, apparently) in the followup.

Brian

Christian McNeill

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Mar 18, 2002, 9:23:50 PM3/18/02
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"Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net> wrote in message
news:jqoa9uosv2fdqff21...@4ax.com...

It reminded me of The Phantom

--
==========================
Christian McNeill

Email: r...@underground.com.au

David W. Althausen

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Mar 18, 2002, 12:07:09 AM3/18/02
to
Howdy,

can someone tell me what time and channel it is on. Have not seen anything
in the different TV logs showing the program.

TIA,
Dave


Jeanne Douglas

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Mar 18, 2002, 3:13:35 AM3/18/02
to
In article <a7342s$2om$2...@galois.mit.edu>,
osse...@math.mit.edu (Brian Osserman) wrote:

> Jeff Grass <jag...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
> >> ><<Spoiler space
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> >I thought it was about one person making a sacrifice - making a difference -
> >changing the world. Captain Iron's sacrifice saved his sister and latter
> >encouraged
> >one of the kids to 'carry on the good fight'.
>
> Agreed that this would be a good one-sentence theme for the episode, but I
> think it applies a lot more to Megan than to Captain Iron -- after all,
> Captain Iron, as far as we have any reason to believe, succeeded primarily
> only in giving his life for his sister's, which is noble, but I'm with Kurdy
> that it doesn't exactly qualify as "changing the world." Encouraging the kid
> is good, of course, but again, it's one kid, and at this stage, we haven't
> seen where, if anywhere, that leads.

In a world of such horror and despair, keeping alive the concepts of
hope and hero are absolutely essential. Just seeing them passed on to
another is a huge thing.

> This also kind of bugged me. For what I can only assume was supposed to
> be dramatic effect, Megan goes from talking about herself only as an angel
> of death in one scene to focusing on her ability to one day save the world
> in a later one.

How horrible to be both at the same time, even though one is only a
potential.

> >I wasn't to concerned about the discrepancy about the Big Death being
> >referred to
> >as a virus and as a bacterium. Some of the characters may not understand the
> >difference between a virus and a bacterium. Also, the characters may be
> >reiterating
> >information that they believe is true, but which is in reality, false. Was
> >the
> >nature
> >of the infectious agent identified before the Big Death ran it's course?
> >How many
> >rumors about the nature of the infectious agent were circulating before
> >everything
> >broke down?
>
> Well, yeah, that's why I said I couldn't really argue with it in the
> context of the show. But at the same time, it doesn't exactly further the
> more immediate cause of getting it through people's heads that there is a
> real and important difference. :-)

Why should people in Jeremiah's world understand the difference any
better than people today?

JD

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game.
It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us."-- Walt Whitman

John W. Kennedy

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Mar 19, 2002, 10:34:24 AM3/19/02
to

It is on the well known pay channel Showtime, Fridays at very
approximately 2245 Eastern, Showtime West at very approximately 2245
Pacific, and, on an uncertain schedule, it is also found on the rarely
seen pay channel Showtime Beyond.

Mike Hennebry

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Mar 19, 2002, 10:43:16 AM3/19/02
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>> ><<Spoiler space
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I think that Megan's comment about being dissected had more to do
with how she was feeling than with what she expected to happen.
She probably isn't expecting to enjoy all the biopsies.
One wonders if medical technology will advance fast enough for
her to be useful.

--
Mike henn...@web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who can't."
-- I. Forget

Monica Hübinette

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Mar 19, 2002, 2:19:10 AM3/19/02
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jbon...@aol.com (Jan) wrote...

>
> << In retrospect I don't think I had phrased that correctly. I was actually
> poking fun at the fact that I thought I saw the Joe's Comics in the upper
> left-hand corner of the Captain Iron comic that was shown onscreen during
> the episode. ; ) >>
>
> OH! Very cool, if so. I missed that and didn't tape the episode so I can't go
> back and look. Hope somebody else can verify this. Joe? You there?

Very good catch! I totally missed it but I went back and caught it
toward the end where Kurdy hands Jeremiah a copy of Captain Iron which
definitely has a Joe's Comics imprint on it. I will try getting a
screen cap soon, so check my web site in a day or so. ;) I am too
tired to do it tonight ...

--
Monica Hübinette | http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/
I can't do it ~ so move along ~ do you really want to wait until I
prove you wrong? --Aimee Mann

Jms at B5

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Mar 19, 2002, 4:04:02 PM3/19/02
to
Just as an FYI on this week's episode, "And the Gound, Sown with Salt"...this
is one of the hardest things I've written, and may be one of the best. It's
just totally unrefuckinglenting, there are some great performances...it's a
tough episode that takes stuff right to the wall. It's one of my favorites.

(On the annoying side...fell Saturday and fractured and sprained my left ankle,
AND fractured and dislocated my right ring finger, so I may be typing even less
than usual for a bit.)
jms

(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2002 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,

James Bell

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Mar 19, 2002, 4:12:32 PM3/19/02
to

"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020319160402...@mb-cg.aol.com...

> Just as an FYI on this week's episode, "And the Gound, Sown with
Salt"...this
> is one of the hardest things I've written, and may be one of the best.
It's
> just totally unrefuckinglenting, there are some great performances...it's
a
> tough episode that takes stuff right to the wall. It's one of my
favorites.
>
> (On the annoying side...fell Saturday and fractured and sprained my left
ankle,
> AND fractured and dislocated my right ring finger, so I may be typing even
less
> than usual for a bit.)
> jms

Have you ever considered trying one of the voice recognition programs? Both
Via Voice and Dragon Naturally Speaking are supposed to be pretty good once
they know your voice.

Jim


Kathryn Huxtable

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Mar 19, 2002, 4:15:37 PM3/19/02
to
"James Bell" <jam...@naxs.com> writes:
> "Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020319160402...@mb-cg.aol.com...
> > (On the annoying side...fell Saturday and fractured and sprained
> > my left ankle, AND fractured and dislocated my right ring finger,
> > so I may be typing even less than usual for a bit.)
> > jms
>
> Have you ever considered trying one of the voice recognition programs? Both
> Via Voice and Dragon Naturally Speaking are supposed to be pretty good once
> they know your voice.

Well, I have Via Voice and unfortunately, I mumble apparently, so
although it's fine when I'm declaiming into the microphone, a normal
sentence is parsed rather badly. JMS's mileage may vary.

JMS, maybe life is trying to tell you something. (Naah, I don't
believe it either.)

-K

Jms at B5

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Mar 19, 2002, 4:37:23 PM3/19/02
to
My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.

Jan

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Mar 19, 2002, 6:31:22 PM3/19/02
to
JMS wrote:

<<My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.>>

Well after the Claudia Christian synchronicity are your sure that nobody's been
writing about you falling?

Speaking of that scene, though, it was very powerful.

Best wishes for an ultra speedy recovery! Are you going to reschdule the
Showtime chat?

Jan

Ron Jarrell

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Mar 19, 2002, 6:59:44 PM3/19/02
to
Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
> My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
> after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.

I'd seen plenty of characters say "fuck you" to god before, but I think
this was the first one I can recall threaten basically to hunt god down and
beat the crap out of him... Nice touch, that..

Gary Seven

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Mar 19, 2002, 11:05:42 PM3/19/02
to

"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020319160402...@mb-cg.aol.com...

> (On the annoying side...fell Saturday and fractured and sprained my left
ankle,
> AND fractured and dislocated my right ring finger, so I may be typing even
less
> than usual for a bit.)
> jms
>

Jesus Christ, Joe --I hope you're all right!

Shit.


Gary Seven

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Mar 19, 2002, 11:21:34 PM3/19/02
to

"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020319163723...@mb-fi.aol.com...

> My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next
day
> after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.
>
> jms
>

I'm going to be blunt here --I was rather stunned by that scene. It took
balls, but to have the main character threatening the Almighty by telling
him "And then when we're done, we're coming after YOU next!" I wasn't really
sure what the point was ...I mean, after all, if the plague was man-made,
then it wasn't really the fault of the big guy upstairs, was it? It was ours
then, No? (Even if it was the fault of one lone idiot scientist working in
some government lab somewhere.)

I know the reasons as to what caused the plague remains unclear to them all,
and obviously Jeremiah is very angry because of all the misery in the world
and what he's endured, but if it was the fault of mankind, then it's
probably not reasonable to expect God to step in and mop up our mess. That
instead would be up to us.

I was sick as a dog Friday night through Saturday --fever, vomiting,
coughing my brains out, but even so, I don't think I missed anything
important. If so, it will have to be chalked up to my delirious state.

Cheryl Martin

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Mar 20, 2002, 1:21:20 AM3/20/02
to
In article <20020319163723...@mb-fi.aol.com>,

Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
>after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.
>

Considering what happened with Jerry and Claudia, you should be much
more careful with your power.

And use it only for good.

Cheryl
--
*Moderator: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, soc.personals *
*Associate Moderator: sci.space.moderated *
*Personal: http://www.grumpywitch.org *
*Arizona Polyamory http://www.grumpywitch.org/azpoly.html *

Daniel O. Miller

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Mar 19, 2002, 7:00:46 PM3/19/02
to
On 19 Mar 2002, Jan wrote:

> JMS wrote:
>
> <<My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
> after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.>>
>
> Well after the Claudia Christian synchronicity are your sure that nobody's been
> writing about you falling?

Didn't Jerry Doyle get hurt in a separate incident, AFTER Garibaldi was
"injured"? Got "shot in the leg" and showed up in the next episode with
his arm in a sling, or vice versa?


Daniel O. Miller

"Does this look familiar? Do you know what it is? Neither do I! I made
it last night in my sleep. Apparently I used gindrogac - highly unstable!
I put a button on it, yes? I wish to press it, but I'm not sure what will
happen if I do..." - Gune


Daniel O. Miller

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Mar 19, 2002, 4:23:46 PM3/19/02
to

I thought the Dragon people went out of business a year or so back?

Cheryl Martin

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Mar 20, 2002, 3:08:05 AM3/20/02
to
In article <a799p0$gf1$1...@dent.deepthot.org>,

Cheryl Martin <zof...@deepthot.org> wrote:
>In article <20020319163723...@mb-fi.aol.com>,
>Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>>My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
>>after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.
>>
>
>Considering what happened with Jerry and Claudia, you should be much
>more careful with your power.
>
>And use it only for good.

oops! I also meant to offer my sympathies here. I hope you recover
quickly and fully!

Mike Hennebry

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Mar 20, 2002, 11:05:07 AM3/20/02
to
In article <a789ku$27c$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,

James Bell <jam...@naxs.com> wrote:
>
>"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20020319160402...@mb-cg.aol.com...
>> (On the annoying side...fell Saturday and fractured and sprained my left
>ankle,
>> AND fractured and dislocated my right ring finger, so I may be typing even
>less
>> than usual for a bit.)

I suppose that is milder hypobole than calling WWII "the unpleasantness".

>Have you ever considered trying one of the voice recognition programs? Both
>Via Voice and Dragon Naturally Speaking are supposed to be pretty good once
>they know your voice.

According to a previous JMS posting, JMS thinks with his fingers.
Voice recognition wouldn't help.

Chris Schumacher

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Mar 20, 2002, 12:52:10 PM3/20/02
to
On 20 Mar 2002 16:05:07 GMT, henn...@web.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu (Mike
Hennebry) wrote:

>According to a previous JMS posting, JMS thinks with his fingers.
>Voice recognition wouldn't help.

(insert off-color joke that would have both Joe and Ms. Drennan
sending me dead rats in the mail)


-==Kensu==-

John W. Kennedy

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Mar 20, 2002, 5:37:02 PM3/20/02
to
Jms at B5 wrote:
>
> My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next day
> after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.

Tell your attorney to read Job.

Chris Schumacher

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Mar 20, 2002, 6:28:46 PM3/20/02
to
On 19 Mar 2002 21:04:02 GMT, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:

>
>(On the annoying side...fell Saturday and fractured and sprained my left ankle,
>AND fractured and dislocated my right ring finger, so I may be typing even less
>than usual for a bit.)
> jms

I remember once cutting my finger with the can-opener part of my swiss
army knife. (you know how the Philips-head screwdriver is on the end
of both the bottle opener and the can opener; the smaller one being on
the can opener; imagine what happens if you're try to unscrew
something, and it doesn't want to unscrew, and it goes flying; and
then you have to drive ten minutes to the grocery store because you
don't have any band-aids, and the inside of your car looks like the
inside of OJ's Bronco). That was just before midterms too; I wrote
half of a short story before it healed completely; it's
very...colorful.
I suspect we're going to see one script in which the characters are
extremely agitated, and it contains an inexplicably immense amount of
swearing.

-==Kensu==-

Christian McNeill

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Mar 20, 2002, 6:46:01 PM3/20/02
to
"Jeanne Douglas" <hlw...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:hlwdjsd-D46A87...@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...

> In article <a7342s$2om$2...@galois.mit.edu>,
> osse...@math.mit.edu (Brian Osserman) wrote:
>
> > Jeff Grass <jag...@facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote:
> > >> ><<Spoiler space
> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> > This also kind of bugged me. For what I can only assume was supposed
to
> > be dramatic effect, Megan goes from talking about herself only as an
angel
> > of death in one scene to focusing on her ability to one day save the
world
> > in a later one.
>
> How horrible to be both at the same time, even though one is only a
> potential.

Both are only a potential... whose to say that this generation has build up
an immunity to the virus/plague. The were all in contact with it.

pluther

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Mar 21, 2002, 8:21:06 PM3/21/02
to
Chris Schumacher <kensu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<4h6i9uci4mjrvt85s...@4ax.com>...

Or one in which they strangely don't use any words with the letters
L or O in them. Or speak in complete sentences, for that matter.

-Pat

--
Pat Luther -- pluther at usa dot net -- http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~pluther
Thankfu y it wasn't his eft midd e finger, or e se he w u dn't be ab e
t type hard y any w rds at a

Dirk A. Loedding

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Mar 22, 2002, 7:42:52 AM3/22/02
to
In article <a7342s$2om$2...@galois.mit.edu>,
osse...@math.mit.edu (Brian Osserman) wrote:

Spoiler space recycled


[snip]

> I was not aware that this was standard terminology in biomedical circles,
>but I don't think it's really relevant here, because Megan is quite clearly
>talking about giving her life for the sake of medical research (what was the
>line? "my death may be the only meaningful thing I've done with my life?").
>It's this aspect that didn't make sense to me, not the word usage, per se
>(although if we're assuming that no one in question is a medical expert,
>which I think we kind of have to, I think there's no question that the word
>'dissection' brings up images of post-mortem slicing and dicing).

Also, let's keep in mind who and what Megan was before she got locked
away. She was a scared teen who happened to not be affected by the
virus/bacteria that caused the Big Death. She's not a medical
researcher. She knows nothing about that kind of stuff. She might
well truly believe that the only way to find out why she's immune
involves cutting her open to see what's inside. That might be how she
understands the practice of medical experimentation and research.

I've seen the discussions the virus/bacteria terminology discrepancy
and I agree that it's the characters that don't know the difference.
All of them - except for Megan - were pre-pubescent children when the
Big D hit. Children are not generally known for their medical know-
how. To the vast majority of kids, a doctor is someone who makes them
stick their tongue out and say "Ah" and gives them shots. They know
medicine tastes bad, and that's about as far as their knowledge
extends.

> Well, yeah, that's why I said I couldn't really argue with it in the
>context of the show. But at the same time, it doesn't exactly further the
>more immediate cause of getting it through people's heads that there is a
>real and important difference. :-)

And you're right that there's a huge, huge number of people who think
the two terms are interchangeable, that there's no difference between
the two. Doctors are pressured to administer antibiotics to people
suffering from viral infections all the time. And they frequently
give in to this pressure, because it's easier than trying to educate a
sick person who's too cranky and stressed out by their illness to be
open to learning. I know *I* never feel like learning anything when
I'm sick with something like the flu.

That said, I don't know that it's the job of this TV show to teach
people the difference. That ought to be up to the medical community.

--
Thought for the day:

Survival Tip #2: Never moon a werewolf.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dirk A. Loedding <*> ju...@america.net |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

David E. Powell

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Mar 24, 2002, 9:29:20 AM3/24/02
to
"Daniel O. Miller" <dmil...@ridgenet.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.3.95.102031...@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us...

> On 19 Mar 2002, Jan wrote:
>
> > JMS wrote:
> >
> > <<My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very
next day
> > after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.>>
> >
> > Well after the Claudia Christian synchronicity are your sure that
nobody's been
> > writing about you falling?
>
> Didn't Jerry Doyle get hurt in a separate incident, AFTER Garibaldi was
> "injured"? Got "shot in the leg" and showed up in the next episode with
> his arm in a sling, or vice versa?

Yes. Doyle broke his arm while filming "Severed Dreams," IIRC.

Claudia Christian broke her ankle shooting another episode, as well, again
IIRC.

David E. Powell

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Mar 24, 2002, 9:32:10 AM3/24/02
to
"Gary Seven" <gary7...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:i7Ul8.18088$bj1.7...@news02.optonline.net...

>
> "Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020319163723...@mb-fi.aol.com...
> > My attorney pointed out that this little accident happened the very next
> day
> > after I had Jeremiah saying fuck you to god...I am not amused.
> >
> > jms
>
> I'm going to be blunt here --I was rather stunned by that scene. It
took
> balls, but to have the main character threatening the Almighty by telling
> him "And then when we're done, we're coming after YOU next!" I wasn't
really
> sure what the point was ...I mean, after all, if the plague was man-made,
> then it wasn't really the fault of the big guy upstairs, was it? It was
ours
> then, No? (Even if it was the fault of one lone idiot scientist working in
> some government lab somewhere.)

The whole point of free will allowed by the Creator as opposed to
intervention after the expulsion of man from the Garden of Eden.

> I know the reasons as to what caused the plague remains unclear to them
all,
> and obviously Jeremiah is very angry because of all the misery in the
world
> and what he's endured, but if it was the fault of mankind, then it's
> probably not reasonable to expect God to step in and mop up our mess. That
> instead would be up to us.

Well, if he was in a condition where he was thinking in pure logic, and he
had no concept of God, maybe..

> I was sick as a dog Friday night through Saturday --fever, vomiting,
> coughing my brains out, but even so, I don't think I missed anything
> important. If so, it will have to be chalked up to my delirious state.

OUCH! Hope you're feeling better.

Dave

Pelzo63

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Mar 25, 2002, 12:24:29 AM3/25/02
to
david_powell3006 wrote:

>Claudia Christian broke her ankle shooting another episode, as well, again
>IIRC.

and IIRC, mira became pregnant, and andrea's career was dissected.

...Chris,

Bill Sheehan

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Mar 24, 2002, 9:51:22 PM3/24/02
to
The scene was shocking, but I loved it. I haven't seen anyone take on
God with such vehemence since President Bartlet told God to go to hell
(in Latin!) in "The Two Cathedrals" episode of "West Wing."
Theologians call this "The problem of evil." We say that God created
us, we say that God is love, we call him "Father," so how can such
things happen? It's intellectually dishonest to answer horrors like
the Holocaust or plague with pat platitudes about free will.

There's an old Jewish story about a group who put God on trial for his
sins against mankind. They formed a minyan, call God to the dock (by
the simple expedient of closing the door, since God is everywhere),
and argued the case. In the end, they found God guilty of letting sin
loose in a world of weak and corruptible men, and for not providing
for widows and orphans.

Questions like these are worth wrestling with. I am always gratified
to see such questions aired in such a dramatic fashion.

Luckily for me, another Showtime channel airs Jeremiah on Sunday
night, so I caught the last couple minutes that my ReplayTV cut off in
the first airing. <sniffle!>

-- Bill


Gary Seven <gary7...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<i7Ul8.18088$bj1.7...@news02.optonline.net>...

> I'm going to be blunt here --I was rather stunned by that scene. It took

EWC

unread,
Mar 25, 2002, 6:05:54 PM3/25/02
to
On 24 Mar 2002 18:51:22 -0800, she...@sheehan.tzo.com (Bill Sheehan)
wrote:

>Theologians call this "The problem of evil." We say that God created
>us, we say that God is love, we call him "Father," so how can such
>things happen?

One answer to that is that by God's standard this is the best of all
possible worlds. That answer is a little dodgy because we can't ever
know what God's standard *is*, but you can't disprove it either because
of that.

--
EWC

HrafnWif

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Mar 25, 2002, 6:32:48 PM3/25/02
to
>
>There's an old Jewish story about a group who put God on trial for his
>sins against mankind. They formed a minyan, call God to the dock (by
>the simple expedient of closing the door, since God is everywhere),
>and argued the case. In the end, they found God guilty of letting sin
loose in a world of weak and corruptible men, and for not providing
for widows and orphans.>>>>>>>>>>>>

IIRC, the story ends not with the guilty verdict but with what the accusors did
next: after finding God guilty as charged, they devoutly began their evening
prayers.

Now THERE'S faith.

Jenn

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