Babylon 5 movie talk?
GaryTheGreat
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I don't mean to get everyone's hopes up unnecessarily, but I ran
across this article this morning.
http://sknr.net/2009/01/19/warner-bros-may-be-ready-to-bring-babylon-5-to-the-big-screen/
The substantial quote of this article is "Warner Bros has initiated
contact to ask JMS just how ?Big? does it have to be in order to bring
Babylon 5 to the screen." I'm not sure who their "jms source" is, and
I have my doubts as to the authenticity. My motto usually is it ain't
so until jms let's us know. If anyone has additional information, it
would be appreciated.
Perhaps someone could ask jms about the article's veracity at NYCC if,
he isn't in England getting knighted :)
Matt Ion
I got a kick out of the bit about being "in love" :)
Amy Guskin
<eded54c2-b712-4160...@d32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>):
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>
> I don't mean to get everyone's hopes up unnecessarily, but I ran
> across this article this morning.
>
>
http://sknr.net/2009/01/19/warner-bros-may-be-ready-to-bring-babylon-5-to-the-
> big-screen/
>
> The substantial quote of this article is "Warner Bros has initiated
> contact to ask JMS just how ?Big? does it have to be in order to bring
> Babylon 5 to the screen." I'm not sure who their "jms source" is, and
> I have my doubts as to the authenticity. My motto usually is it ain't
> so until jms let's us know. If anyone has additional information, it
> would be appreciated. <<
If this is on the level, it's a shame it took them this long to figure it out
-- it would have been nice if we could have had a movie that included G'Kar
and Franklin.
Amy
--
Ten Thousand Questions Blog:
A Question a Day for Journaling, Self-Discovery, and Transformation
"2009 is the Year of Questions"
tenthousandquestions.com
Jan
> >> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:17:36 -0500, thus spake GaryTheGreat (in article
>
>
> > [ The following text is in the "windows-1252" character set. ]
> > [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>
> > I don't mean to get everyone's hopes up unnecessarily, but I ran
> > across this article this morning.
>
>
> > big-screen/
>
> > The substantial quote of this article is "Warner Bros has initiated
> > contact to ask JMS just how ?Big? does it have to be in order to bring
> > Babylon 5 to the screen." I'm not sure who their "jms source" is, and
> > I have my doubts as to the authenticity. My motto usually is it ain't
> > so until jms let's us know. If anyone has additional information, it
> > would be appreciated. <<
>
> If this is on the level, it's a shame it took them this long to figure it out
> -- it would have been nice if we could have had a movie that included G'Kar
> and Franklin.
>
It's on the level. It's based on comments JMS made in an interview
with the blogger for NYCC. Check out:
http://www.mediumatlarge.net/2009/01/battlestar-would-win-jms-sits-down-with.html
Whether anything will come of it...time will tell, I guess.
Jan
Dan Dassow
>
> Whether anything will come of it...time will tell, I guess.
>
> Jan
Much as I would love to see a Babylon 5 feature film produced with an
appropriate budget, I would hope that JMS waits in negotiating the
deal until after Ninja Assassin, World War Z, They Marched into
Sunlight, Lensman, and Forbidden Planet are filmed, produced and
distributed. Warner Brothers needs to fully understand their folly in
trying to produce a Babylon 5 film on the cheap. In a total flight of
fancy, it would be interesting to see Clint Eastwood direct a Babylon
5 feature film.
Dan Dassow
Josh Hill
<glin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't mean to get everyone's hopes up unnecessarily, but I ran
>across this article this morning.
>
>http://sknr.net/2009/01/19/warner-bros-may-be-ready-to-bring-babylon-5-to-the-big-screen/
>
>The substantial quote of this article is "Warner Bros has initiated
>contact to ask JMS just how ?Big? does it have to be in order to bring
>Babylon 5 to the screen." I'm not sure who their "jms source" is, and
>I have my doubts as to the authenticity. My motto usually is it ain't
>so until jms let's us know. If anyone has additional information, it
>would be appreciated.
>Perhaps someone could ask jms about the article's veracity at NYCC if,
>he isn't in England getting knighted :)
Funny, I just finished reading an article about how Warner has
eliminated 800 jobs, in part because of declining DVD sales and
declining demand for scripted TV shows. Is it possible that they've
finally come around to realizing the value of a franchise that's been
sitting under their noses earning fabulous sums of money? I mean, "Get
Smart?" Next think you know they'll be bringing back "My Mother the
Car" and "The Flying Nun." But no B5.
--
Josh
"What is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?" - Sarah Palin
Hans Christian Vang
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"GaryTheGreat" <glin...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:eded54c2-b712-4160...@d32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Perhaps someone could ask jms about the article's veracity at NYCC if,
he isn't in England getting knighted :)
Why on earth would he be in England getting KNIGHTED?
hc
mpvork...@hotmail.com
>
> Whether anything will come of it...time will tell, I guess.
That was hilarious. Joe gave that poor guy so much static...
Mike
mpvork...@hotmail.com
wrote:
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> [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>
>
> Perhaps someone could ask jms about the article's veracity at NYCC if,
> he isn't in England getting knighted :)
>
> Why on earth would he be in England getting KNIGHTED?
Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
Mike
Jeffrey Kaplan
mpvork...@hotmail.com said:
> > Perhaps someone could ask jms about the article's veracity at NYCC if,
> > he isn't in England getting knighted :)
> >
> > Why on earth would he be in England getting KNIGHTED?
>
> Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
PTerry is British.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"No, I’m sorry Steve, you’ve been with Susan a year now. Either you’ve
got a future, or you should just get married." - Patrick Maitland,
Coupling, "Gotcha"
mpvork...@hotmail.com
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,
> mpvorkosi...@hotmail.com said:
>
> > > Perhaps someone could ask jms about the article's veracity at NYCC if,
> > > he isn't in England getting knighted :)
>
> > > Why on earth would he be in England getting KNIGHTED?
>
> > Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
>
> PTerry is British.
Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
make him an OBE...
Mike
Andrew Swallow
OBE are awarded by politicians. Several films would have to be made in
the UK to get one of those.
Andrew Swallow
Jeffrey Kaplan
mpvork...@hotmail.com said:
> > > Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
> >
> > PTerry is British.
>
> Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
> could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
> make him an OBE...
Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
for an American to get a British award. Something on the level like
saving the British Isles from the Germans during a world war.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol
"Always finding the good in every situation ay Captain?" "Absolutely.
If I didn't I might end up like you." "Hey what's that supposed to
mean? Did anybody else hear that? Did you hear that?" "No
commander." "Good." (Cmdr. Ivanova, Capt. Sheridan and Lt. Corwin,
B5 "A Day In The Strife")
Matt Ion
>Why on earth would he be in England getting KNIGHTED?
What would French knights be doing in an English castle, for that matter?
John W. Kennedy
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,
> mpvork...@hotmail.com said:
>
>>>> Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
>>> PTerry is British.
>> Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
>> could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
>> make him an OBE...
>
> Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
> three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
> for an American to get a British award. Something on the level like
> saving the British Isles from the Germans during a world war.
By that logic, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland should be even
worse off, but all four of the Corrs received MBEs in 2005. (Some in
the Dáil raged against it, but were apparently quieted when it was
pointed out to them that, since the Republic offered no such honor,
Ireland should be grateful to the UK for picking up the slack.)
Of course, the Corrs were honored for their charity work, which JMS is
not known for. (Not saying he isn't active philanthropically, just
that he isn't known for it in the way that, say, Bono is.)
Jeffrey Kaplan
> >>>> Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
> >>> PTerry is British.
> >> Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
> >> could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
> >> make him an OBE...
> >
> > Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
> > three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
>
> By that logic, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland should be even
> worse off, but all four of the Corrs received MBEs in 2005. (Some in
Isn't the RofI part of the British Commonwealth?
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #144.
I will order my guards to stand in a line when they shoot at the hero
so he cannot duck and have them accidentally shoot each other. Also, I
will order some to aim above, below, and to the sides so he cannot
jump out of the way.
John W. Kennedy
> Isn't the RofI part of the British Commonwealth?
Not since the days when it was called "The Irish Free State", which it
hasn't been since 1937. About the only remnant is the Common Travel
Area, which allowed passport-free movement -- and it's not clear how
much longer that will last.
Andrew Swallow
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, John W. Kennedy said:
>
>>>>>> Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
>>>>> PTerry is British.
>>>> Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
>>>> could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
>>>> make him an OBE...
>>> Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
>>> three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
>> By that logic, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland should be even
>> worse off, but all four of the Corrs received MBEs in 2005. (Some in
>
> Isn't the RofI part of the British Commonwealth?
>
Ireland left the British Commonwealth in 1949 when it became a republic.
Andrew Swallow
Dave Hayslett
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, John W. Kennedy said:
>
>>>>>> Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
>>>>> PTerry is British.
>>>> Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
>>>> could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
>>>> make him an OBE...
>>>
>>> Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
>>> three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
>>
>> By that logic, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland should be even
>> worse off, but all four of the Corrs received MBEs in 2005. (Some in
>
> Isn't the RofI part of the British Commonwealth?
What does rolling on the floor la... Oh. That's an *I*. Never mind, then.
:-)
--
Dave (1/22/2009 6:40:36 PM)
Tour the world in a heavy metal band
but they run out of gas, the plane can never land.
Amy Guskin
<3bhhn4pci1lf72uok...@gordol.org>):
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, John W. Kennedy said:
>
>>>>>> Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
>>>>> PTerry is British.
>>>> Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
>>>> could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
>>>> make him an OBE...
>>>
>>> Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
>>> three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
>>
>> By that logic, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland should be even
>> worse off, but all four of the Corrs received MBEs in 2005. (Some in
>
> Isn't the RofI part of the British Commonwealth? <<
You do _not_ want to walk into a bar in Dublin (or Sligo, or Donegal, or
Galway) and say that. I think you're thinking of Northern Ireland.
Amy Guskin
<vrk1ka91...@hayslett.sc.rr.com>):
> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:14:39 -0500, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
>
>>
>> Isn't the RofI part of the British Commonwealth?
>
> What does rolling on the floor la... Oh. That's an *I*. Never mind, then.
<<
Okay, so I'm _not_ that only one who read it that way first. :-D
mpvork...@hotmail.com
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,
>
> > > > Hell, why not? Terry Pratchett got knighted...
>
> > > PTerry is British.
>
> > Yeah. And as former subjects of Her Most Royal Britannic Majesty, she
> > could find ways to stretch a point far enough...She could at the least
> > make him an OBE...
>
> Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
> three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
> for an American to get a British award. Something on the level like
> saving the British Isles from the Germans during a world war.
Yeah, but George III was nuts, and even his subjects knew it.
Elizabeth is sweet and forgiving, and if she's willing to knight
Geldof, why not JMS?
Mike
Jeffrey Kaplan
mpvork...@hotmail.com said:
> Yeah, but George III was nuts, and even his subjects knew it.
> Elizabeth is sweet and forgiving, and if she's willing to knight
> Geldof, why not JMS?
Who is "Geldof"?
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #3. When the Evil Overlord takes
hostages, I will presume the hostages dead and hold a memorial
service. Any promises made by the Evil Overlord regarding their safe
return shall be summarily ignored. My loved ones will be warned to
expect this.
Christophe Bachmann
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,
> mpvork...@hotmail.com said:
>
>> Yeah, but George III was nuts, and even his subjects knew it.
>> Elizabeth is sweet and forgiving, and if she's willing to knight
>> Geldof, why not JMS?
>
> Who is "Geldof"?
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Geldof
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Château du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France
Amy Guskin
<r9lin4hei78j6kj51...@gordol.org>):
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,
> mpvork...@hotmail.com said:
>
>> Yeah, but George III was nuts, and even his subjects knew it.
>> Elizabeth is sweet and forgiving, and if she's willing to knight
>> Geldof, why not JMS?
>
> Who is "Geldof"? <<
Most people know him as the guy behind Band Aid, the big British effort that
created a multi-artist benefit song to help starving people in Ethiopia,
which then led to Live Aid all over the world. But he was also in the
Boomtown Rats, the band that brought you the song "I Don't Like Mondays."
Me, I always think of both Geldof and Midge Ure when I think of Band Aid, but
that's just me. Anyway, if you want to see the video of the song, and the
"making of" videos (and if you're a fan of 80s British new wave bands, this
is a do-not-miss!), go to YouTube and plug " band aid geldof" (without the
quotes) into the search engine. Everything pops right up.
For me, it isn't Christmas unless I have "Do They Know It's Christmas" on my
iPod!
John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:
Don't you go dissin' Max. The movie wasn't a blockbuster but better
than most lets rebuild a TV concept movies.
How could you arrange for a B5 movie to be true a blockbuster? First
thing that really needs to happen is a round of sydication where
people can stumble onto it again. We can't evangilize everyone. We
need help to get people to really wan't to put their buts in the seats
for a movie or they end up with Serenity sorts of numbers.
Joseph DeMartino
> Who is "Geldof"?
I believe that would be the wizard from "The Lord of the Rings".
<g>
Joe
mpvork...@hotmail.com
Then that guy from the Boomtown Rats must be Bob Gandalf...
Mike
Jeffrey Kaplan
That would be "Gandalf", hence my question.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #95. The assistance of
politicians will be obtained by appealing to their self-interest. Any
politician who appears to be cooperating with me out of the kindness
of his heart is actually plotting to betray me at some point.
Joseph DeMartino
> That would be "Gandalf", hence my question.
That would be a "joke", hence my "<g>".
Joe
Gregory Weston
<2cb75eba-dec6-4103...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com>,
mpvork...@hotmail.com wrote:
Sang "I Don't Like Mordor?"
--
"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?"
- Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix
Amy Guskin
<uce-50D776.2...@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>):
> In article
> <2cb75eba-dec6-4103...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com>,
> mpvork...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Jan 23, 3:54 pm, Joseph DeMartino <jdema...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> On Jan 23, 12:27 am, Jeffrey Kaplan <gor...@gordol.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Who is "Geldof"?
>>>
>>> I believe that would be the wizard from "The Lord of the Rings".
>>> <g>
>>
>> Then that guy from the Boomtown Rats must be Bob Gandalf...
>
> Sang "I Don't Like Mordor?" <<
HA! Oh, zing!
mpvork...@hotmail.com
> >> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:27:58 -0500, thus spake Gregory Weston (in article
>
>
> > In article
> > <2cb75eba-dec6-4103-8e12-43c21494c...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com>,
> > mpvorkosi...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >> On Jan 23, 3:54 pm, Joseph DeMartino <jdema...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>> On Jan 23, 12:27 am, Jeffrey Kaplan <gor...@gordol.org> wrote:
>
> >>>> Who is "Geldof"?
>
> >>> I believe that would be the wizard from "The Lord of the Rings".
> >>> <g>
>
> >> Then that guy from the Boomtown Rats must be Bob Gandalf...
>
> > Sang "I Don't Like Mordor?" <<
>
> HA! Oh, zing!
Don't forget Bob's big showcase number with the balrog, "Drag Me
Down"...
Mike
Josh Hill
<johndun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Don't you go dissin' Max. The movie wasn't a blockbuster but better
>than most lets rebuild a TV concept movies.
I enjoyed the movie, actually. But it wasn't IMO up to the inspired
original.
> How could you arrange for a B5 movie to be true a blockbuster? First
>thing that really needs to happen is a round of sydication where
>people can stumble onto it again. We can't evangilize everyone. We
>need help to get people to really wan't to put their buts in the seats
>for a movie or they end up with Serenity sorts of numbers.
As much as I enjoyed the show, the Serenity movie just wasn't *good
enough* to get those numbers, which is to say I enjoyed it as I would
an episode but it didn't have the something extra we expect from a
feature film.
As I see it, if a B5 movie is first rank, like "In the Beginning,"
they'll come, if not, they won't -- fans will see it and enjoy it, but
it won't break out into the mainstream.
Of course, I could be very wrong about this. Babylon 5 had a large
following, was on the air for five years, became part of our popular
culture. I don't think you'll meet very many people who don't know who
Londo and G'kar are. In that sense, it's more like Get Smart or the
Addams Family than Serenity, with its regrettably brief airing.
But I think what one might call the anticipation of familiarity is
going to be there in the case of Babylon 5, the thing that draws us in
to see movies about the Batman comics or TV shows of our youth, the
sort of feeling that makes people applaud the moment they see the
trailer on the screen. I think. A movie that calls upon that pent-up
anticipation can fail at the box office only if it's truly bad.
And I hope for much more than that. "In the Beginning," in particular,
had everything -- great action and suspense, a wraparound story that
was touching without being overdone or false, spectacular effects
which were always in service to the story, and a magnificently
compelling performance by Peter Jurasik. It seems to me that if a B5
feature can match the quality of "In the Beginning" -- and exceed it
of course in some of the areas in which a feature might be expected
to, e.g., music, shooting ratio, costumes, sets, effects, etc. -- the
audience will come.
The absence of Andreas in particular will be keenly felt. But a movie
can succeed without well known stars in the lead (which would of
course be disastrous in the case of B5, something I gather the studio
didn't originally understand) if everything else is right. As for
example did Star Wars, in which the leads weren't the equal of some in
the supporting cast. An Obi Wan can do wonders to lift a film (or a
Yoda or a C3PO!), if the other assets are deployed to best utilize
their strengths. I believe that even acting of a limited range can
become an asset in the right hands ("Kurdy?").
And JMS has shown that, given sufficient resources, he can transcend
the limitations of television. In fact, I think JMS has a better
chance to move B5 to the big screen than the creators of Star Trek
did, in part because he understands how to integrate the grandiosity
of vast events with personal drama. The Trek movie people had trouble
with that, and so it's no accident I think that the most successful
Trek movie, the Wrath of Khan, was the smallest in scope. JMS can do
both, create a link between great battles and the bond between a dying
emperor and a little girl. And since I doubt that JMS would sign off
on one of those slick action-every-second Hollywood circuses -- the
ones that substitute pacing and effects for intelligence and emotional
involvement -- story will be all.
--
Josh
"What is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?" - Sarah Palin
Duggy
wrote:
> How could you arrange for a B5 movie to be true a blockbuster? First
> thing that really needs to happen is a round of sydication where
> people can stumble onto it again. We can't evangilize everyone. We
> need help to get people to really wan't to put their buts in the seats
> for a movie or they end up with Serenity sorts of numbers.
The TV show isn't going to do it.
I mean, honestly, the audience for the show isn't Blockbuster
numbers. Double it and you aren't there yet.
Sure, it has better value than a film with no history, but not enough.
For the film to work as a blockbuster it has to be a cinema
blockbuster and it has to work as one.
It needs a story that doesn't need the series or knowledge of the
existing universe without ignoring it or needing to over explain it.
Casting becomes an issue. I'm not talking recasting, but any
additional casting would have to be good... although there may, in
that case, be a need to skew towards newer characters.
And, if you're talking blockbusters, you need big FX/action pieces.
Not that that's impossible in B5, but it's an issue.
I'm not saying that JMS can't do all this and isn't aware of it, I'm
just saying these are the real issues with a film.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:59:57 -0500, John Duncan Yoyo
> >thing that really needs to happen is a round of sydication where
> >people can stumble onto it again. We can't evangilize everyone. We
> >need help to get people to really wan't to put their buts in the seats
> >for a movie or they end up with Serenity sorts of numbers.
> As much as I enjoyed the show, the Serenity movie just wasn't *good
> enough* to get those numbers, which is to say I enjoyed it as I would
> an episode but it didn't have the something extra we expect from a
> feature film.
Serenity was a great telemovie... but it wasn't cinematic enough.
And it catered a little too much to the fans. It may have increased
the fanbase a little but it didn't work as motion picture.
> As I see it, if a B5 movie is first rank, like "In the Beginning,"
> they'll come, if not, they won't -- fans will see it and enjoy it, but
> it won't break out into the mainstream.
ItB didn't completely work either.
The story relied too much on inbuilt fan interest. The death of
Dukhat and the destruction of the Blackstar were interesting because
we already knew how important these events. It was really a series of
vignettes catering to fans and not a good example of what we should be
looking for.
> Of course, I could be very wrong about this. Babylon 5 had a large
> following, was on the air for five years, became part of our popular
> culture. I don't think you'll meet very many people who don't know who
> Londo and G'kar are.
I think you'll find lots of people who don't know who they are. They
aren't Kirk & Spock.
===
= DUG.
===
Joseph DeMartino
wrote:
> How could you arrange for a B5 movie to be true a blockbuster?
You couldn't. Blockbusters are hoped for, not "arranged". If it were
simply a matter of deciding to make a blockbuster and then doing it,
all Hollywood films would be huge hits and none of them would be
bombs.
Nor is a return to syndication important. Discussions about movies
adapted from other media always get caught up in ultimately
meaningless talk about how big "the base" is, how to exapnd "beyond
the base", etc. They forget that plenty of movies that aren't based
on *anything* - or on fairly obscure sources - go on to become quite
successful. What is needed to make a film a blockbuster is that it be
a *good film* - basically a good piece of storytelling with at least
one compelling element that encourages people to return to watch it
again and again in theaters. Because the one thing ALL movie
blockbusters have in common is repeat ticket sales. There simply
aren't enough casual movie-goers in the United States to generate the
kind of numbers that some films enjoy.
There was no five year "Star Wars" series or top-selling DVDs on the
market before the first film debuted in 1977, but as I recall it still
managed to make a few bucks. Geeks like me saw it five or six times
during its original run. The FX were new and dazzling, and the story
was old and dazzling, harking back to the serials we grew up watching
on TV. Killer combination. "Jaws" tapped into a lot of primal fears,
was expertly told and was a terrific date movie - hence, lots of
repeat businesss. "Titanic" had spectacle and beauty. It also had a
lumbering, ham-fisted, cliche fest of a script, but in the middle of
the mess was Leonardo DiCaprio in the kind of sappy "tragic" love
story that appeals to 12 to 17 year old girls. And it was those pre-
teen and teenage girls who saw the film over and over again and made
it a hit. (If Cameron had depended on grown-ups to pay the bills the
film would have sunk like the ship and probably taken the stuido with
it ala "Heaven's Gate")
A "B5" theatrical film will have to succeed first and foremost *as a
film* and to do that it has to be a story that can be enjoyed and
understood by people who have never heard of the show. But that isn't
as big a hurdle as some people seem to think. At least half of the
people who made "X-Men" and "Iron Man" hits had probably never read a
single issue of either comic. They were dragged to see the films by
dates who had, or they thought the ads looked cool. Because the
films were good, word of mouth was also good and lots of people came
to see them. Nobody NEEDED to have read 20 or 30 years of either
title and know all the nuances of ever character to enjoy the movies.
What we needed to know, the films themselves told us.
Nobody knows Rick or Ilsa or Capt. Renault before they see
"Casablanca" for the first time, but by the end of the film most
people know them quite well. That's what movies DO. Because we have
the whole history of "B5" in our heads, we tend to think that you need
that to enjoy a "B5" story, but the fact is, you don't. There are
plenty of tales that could be told in a self-contained 2 hour movie,
incuding some we've been waiting a long time for, because the
ESSENTIAL backstory could be laid in very quickly and the audience
could then follow the story. Sure there'd be lots of subtle points
only accessible to die-hard fans, but so what? That was also true of
"The Lord of the Rings" and that seems to have done OK. (In constrast
to the earlier Ralph Bakshi animated fiasco, which was unintelligible
to anyone who hadn't read the books, and offensive to anyone who had -
a pefect example of how NOT to adapt a cult project to the screen.)
It should be perfecty possible to advertise a "B5" film as if it were
a stand-alone SF original and attract enough of an audience to "open"
and then sustain the film provided it has a compelling story and is
well-made. The television history is irrelevant.
Regards,
Joe
Joseph DeMartino
> Of course, I could be very wrong about this. Babylon 5 had a large
> following, was on the air for five years, became part of our popular
> culture. I don't think you'll meet very many people who don't know who
> Londo and G'kar are. In that sense, it's more like Get Smart or the
> Addams Family than Serenity, with its regrettably brief airing.
Unless you actually live *at* a "B5" convention, I'm not sure how you
can make such a statement. Part of our popular culture? Most of the
people who are even vaugely aware of "B5" still think it is a "Trek"
series. A handful of references on geek-friendly TV shows like "Drew
Carey" do not a cultural icon make. Kirk and Spock are icons. So are
Lucy and Desi. Even Mortia and Gomez or RIchie and the Fonz. But
Londo and G'Kar? Are you kidding. Stand outside an office building
and ask 100 random people if they recognize the following names:
Boris and Natasha
Bonnie and Clyde
Londo and G'Kar
I'm betting the responses would be around 80, 90 and 7. <g>
Regards,
Joe
Amy Guskin
<b1af8622-f6cb-40ab...@r37g2000prr.googlegroups.com>):
Thanks for the reality check. I remember reading this the day Josh wrote it,
and not having time to reply, but for the briefest of seconds I wondered what
country he lived in. Then I remembered it was Josh, so US. And my brain
quietly exploded, and I didn't reply.
I have a fair amount of B5 stuff that I wear and use -- bags, shirts, bomber
jacket -- and I have _yet_ to run into _anyone_, anywhere, who has said to
me, "Oh, B5, cool." Or any other sign of recognition. If anyone _does_
comment on anything I'm wearing/carrying that says "Babylon 5," it's to ask
what that is.
I mean, hey, I love the show as much as anyone here, but let's be realistic.
I don't think you'll meet very many people who _do_ know who Londo and G'Kar
are. The closest I usually get to recognition is "Oh, that show with the guy
with the hair."
But I wouldn't mind living in Josh's universe, where everyone _does_ know it!
Amy Guskin
<504c6e2e-83ae-4706...@p37g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
> On Jan 26, 8:14 pm, Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course, I could be very wrong about this. Babylon 5 had a large
>> following, was on the air for five years, became part of our popular
>> culture. I don't think you'll meet very many people who don't know who
>> Londo and G'kar are. In that sense, it's more like Get Smart or the
>> Addams Family than Serenity, with its regrettably brief airing.
>
> Unless you actually live *at* a "B5" convention, I'm not sure how you
> can make such a statement. Part of our popular culture? Most of the
> people who are even vaugely aware of "B5" still think it is a "Trek"
> series. A handful of references on geek-friendly TV shows like "Drew
> Carey" <<
And "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"! Let's not forget Xander and his collectible
B5 plates! :-)
mpvork...@hotmail.com
> >> On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:02:30 -0500, thus spake Joseph DeMartino (in article
>
>
> > On Jan 26, 8:14 pm, Josh Hill <userepl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Of course, I could be very wrong about this. Babylon 5 had a large
> >> following, was on the air for five years, became part of our popular
> >> culture. I don't think you'll meet very many people who don't know who
> >> Londo and G'kar are. In that sense, it's more like Get Smart or the
> >> Addams Family than Serenity, with its regrettably brief airing.
>
> > Unless you actually live *at* a "B5" convention, I'm not sure how you
> > can make such a statement. Part of our popular culture? Most of the
> > people who are even vaugely aware of "B5" still think it is a "Trek"
> > series. A handful of references on geek-friendly TV shows like "Drew
> > Carey" <<
>
> And "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"! Let's not forget Xander and his collectible
> B5 plates! :-)
I could kill Xander just for those plates. I tried, God I tried, to
get those things myself... but one-eye beat me to 'em!
B5 has a small but rabid fan base, mostly folks who appreciate good
writing above all else. A fair chunk of them are Trekpatriates, fans
who love good sf no matter who writes it. I was pounding on people
about B5 as soon as it hit the airwaves, but it took a bit for most of
them to come on board. When they did, they got as crazed as I am. Some
of them even moreso.
But for every openminded fan of Trek/B5/Firefly, there are half a
dozen who are willingly blinkered by their devotion to one franchise
or another. "I just can't get into it" is the standard refrain.
I remember when the show first came on, there was at least one person
who complained about the links. Not practical, he said, you wouldn't
wear a communications device on the back of your hand, everybody knows
that the only way it would work is to wear it like a badge on your
uniform. I swear, that's what the guy said.
But we got the last laugh, with the guys at MIT and NASA who said that
you should never try to apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5
problem...
Mike
Soundy
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:27:37 -0500, thus spake Jeffrey Kaplan (in article
>
> > Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated,
> > mpvorkosi...@hotmail.com said:
>
> >> Yeah, but George III was nuts, and even his subjects knew it.
> >> Elizabeth is sweet and forgiving, and if she's willing to knight
> >> Geldof, why not JMS?
>
> > Who is "Geldof"? <<
>
> Most people know him as the guy behind Band Aid, the big British effort that
> created a multi-artist benefit song to help starving people in Ethiopia,
> which then led to Live Aid all over the world. But he was also in the
> Boomtown Rats, the band that brought you the song "I Don't Like Mondays."
Don't forget his acting debut as "Pink" in the movie version of Pink
Floyd's The Wall...
David Williams
<mpvork...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eba8a407-c29c-4cb8...@b16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> But we got the last laugh, with the guys at MIT and NASA who
> said that you should never try to apply a Star Trek solution to a
> Babylon 5 problem...
I don't know or don't remember what you might be specifically referring to
here. Please follow up on your ellipsis.
David W.
Jeffrey Kaplan
Draal does not like it when you try to increase the output of the
tachyon emitter by reversing the polarity of a Heisenberg/Cochran
Subspace Transducer Array.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #119.
I will not attempt to kill the hero by placing a venomous creature in
his room. It will just wind up accidentally killing one of my clumsy
henchmen instead.
John W. Kennedy
> <mpvorkosi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Pretty much what he said. It is a published fact that "Don't apply a
'Star Trek' solution to a 'Babylon 5' problem" became a motto in space-
engineering circles in the 1990s.
Aleks A.-Lessmann
>jacket -- and I have _yet_ to run into _anyone_, anywhere, who has said to
>me, "Oh, B5, cool." Or any other sign of recognition. If anyone _does_
>comment on anything I'm wearing/carrying that says "Babylon 5," it's to ask
We live in different worlds. I regularly meet people who at least have
heard of B5, even if they may not have liked it. I work in IT at
management level with regular geek contact, so that may help the ratio,
of course.
>I don't think you'll meet very many people who _do_ know who Londo and G'Kar
I suspect outside the IT/Geek world it may be the way your world is.
Aleks
Aleks A.-Lessmann
>You couldn't. Blockbusters are hoped for, not "arranged". If it were
>simply a matter of deciding to make a blockbuster and then doing it,
Still, we know that the power of marketing is a big one. It does not
give you absolute assurance of a hit (Snakes on a plane bombed in spite
of heavy marketing) but it makes enough people realize the movie exists
at all.
>A "B5" theatrical film will have to succeed first and foremost *as a
>film* and to do that it has to be a story that can be enjoyed and
>understood by people who have never heard of the show. But that isn't
>as big a hurdle as some people seem to think. At least half of the
I saw Serenity with only a vague idea of the series behind it. Of
course, being written by Josh Whedon made it really interesting for me,
having liked Buffy and Angel.
Only after I saw the movie I felt compelled to watch the sadly
short-lived series that had pre-dated it.
At least for me, you have a point there, as you most often do.
Aleks
Baff
Jeffrey Kaplan <gor...@gordol.org> wrote:
> Draal does not like it when you try to increase the output of the
> tachyon emitter by reversing the polarity of a Heisenberg/Cochran
> Subspace Transducer Array.
That sounds more like a Doctor Who solution than Star Trek. I'm pretty
sure I watched a Jon Pertwee episode yesterday where he offered exactly
that solution to some problem.
--
Vince
"Good and evil aren't always." Weis & Hickman (I think)
Baff
Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
> And "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"! Let's not forget Xander and his collectible
> B5 plates! :-)
>
> Amy
A few months back there was a B5 reference in one of Zero Punctuation's
video game reviews. His video reviews have to be seen/heard to be
understood, mere written words can't describe them. For anyone
interested, the B5 reference is in the first minute.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/123-LEGO-Ind
y
Dan Dassow
> In article <o45do4tsd5103q5n09dlv446f8sc9tg...@gordol.org>,
> Jeffrey Kaplan <gor...@gordol.org> wrote:
>
> > Draal does not like it when you try to increase the output of the
> > tachyon emitter by reversing the polarity of a Heisenberg/Cochran
> > Subspace Transducer Array.
>
> That sounds more like a Doctor Who solution than Star Trek. I'm pretty
> sure I watched a Jon Pertwee episode yesterday where he offered exactly
> that solution to some problem.
>
It is also characteristic of Star Trek: Voyager, AKA, Star Trek: Capt.
Janeway's Favorite Technobabble.
Dan Dassow
Amy Guskin
<ofddo41lbaa4n8a8q...@4ax.com>):
> On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 05:51:19 -0800 (PST), Joseph DeMartino wrote:
>
>> You couldn't. Blockbusters are hoped for, not "arranged". If it were
>> simply a matter of deciding to make a blockbuster and then doing it,
>
> Still, we know that the power of marketing is a big one. It does not
> give you absolute assurance of a hit (Snakes on a plane bombed in spite
> of heavy marketing) but it makes enough people realize the movie exists
> at all. <<
Since this subject is on the table, some of you might enjoy -- and find
informative -- this New Yorker article that I just finished reading in the
printed edition:
The Cobra
Inside a movie marketer's playbook
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/01/19/090119fa_fact_friend
Amy Guskin
> On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:34:40 GMT, Amy Guskin wrote:
>
>> jacket -- and I have _yet_ to run into _anyone_, anywhere, who has said to
>> me, "Oh, B5, cool." Or any other sign of recognition. If anyone _does_
>> comment on anything I'm wearing/carrying that says "Babylon 5," it's to ask
>
> We live in different worlds. I regularly meet people who at least have
> heard of B5, even if they may not have liked it. I work in IT at
> management level with regular geek contact, so that may help the ratio,
> of course. <<
I know a lot of geeks, and of course _they_ know the show (at least the older
ones do). But I'm talking about the general public, which is most of the
entertainment-consuming world.
>>> I don't think you'll meet very many people who _do_ know who Londo and
>> G'Kar
>
> I suspect outside the IT/Geek world it may be the way your world is. <<
Honestly, I love the show as much as you do. But let's be realistic. We are
talking about the general public, and in the real world of the general public
-- meaning, not the people you meet at cons -- most people do _not_ know what
Babylon 5 is, or they have only vaguely heard of it. It's just silly to
target specific segments of the general public and use that as proof that
Babylon 5 is a cultural staple. The fact is, as Duggy said, Londo and G'Kar
are NOT Kirk and Spock. When you see Saturday Night Live or Weird Al or The
Simpsons lampooning Babylon 5, you'll know its hit pop cultural meme status.
Amy Guskin
<baff-5CE1CF.0...@news.verizon.net>):
> In article <0001HW.C5AB1DC8...@news.verizon.net>,
> Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>> And "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"! Let's not forget Xander and his
>> collectible
>> B5 plates! :-)
>>
>> Amy
>
> A few months back there was a B5 reference in one of Zero Punctuation's
> video game reviews. His video reviews have to be seen/heard to be
> understood, mere written words can't describe them. For anyone
> interested, the B5 reference is in the first minute.
>
> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/123-LEGO-Ind
> y <<
Okay, that was pretty funny. And...jeebus, but that guy talks faster than
anyone save perhaps the guy from the old FedEx commercials.
Joseph DeMartino
consulting.com> wrote:
> Still, we know that the power of marketing is a big one. It does not
> give you absolute assurance of a hit (Snakes on a plane bombed in spite
> of heavy marketing) but it makes enough people realize the movie exists
> at all.
Which is why marketing can sometimes "open" a picture - get butts in
the seats for the first weekend. But that doesn't make a film
profitable, much less a blockbuster. After that first weekend it is
word-of-mouth that rules. All advertising does at that point is
remind people which films their friends said good things about and
that they are therefore, "meaning to see." If you get a big opening
weekend and everybody comes out of the theater talking about how badly
your film sucks, you're not got to have a lot of people in the theater
the following weekend. Hits are the movies the get friends of the
initial audience to come see them in later weeks. Blockbusters are
films that get the initial audience to come back *with* their
friends. And flops are the films that lose 50% to 70% of their first
weekend audience on the second weekend.
Regards,
Joe
Alan Dicey
I think that Star Trek invented technobabble, in the sense that there
was a scripting convention that essentially meant "insert
technical-term-of-the-week here". SF always had and still has a need to
make up words for things that don't exist yet, but Trek did it so often,
and with so little regard to continuity, that it became notorious.
Mind you, the only obvious Trek reference in Jeffrey's example is Cochrane.
The use of technobabble predates the rise of the term (derived from
psychobabble, apparantly, in the '80's) One example that should be
familiar: Asimov's "The Endochronic Properties of Resubliminated
Thiotimoline"
Jeffrey Kaplan
Geordie LaForge did it quite frequently in TNG.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"In a world that had lost it's anchor to reality, it was hard to get
seriously involved with a turkey sandwich." ("The Engines of God," by
Jack McDevitt)
Jeffrey Kaplan
> I think that Star Trek invented technobabble, in the sense that there
> was a scripting convention that essentially meant "insert
> technical-term-of-the-week here". SF always had and still has a need to
> make up words for things that don't exist yet, but Trek did it so often,
> and with so little regard to continuity, that it became notorious.
>
> Mind you, the only obvious Trek reference in Jeffrey's example is Cochrane.
Which I inserted specifically for that purpose. Although Geordie
seemed to like referencing "Heisenberg" on a regular basis.
> The use of technobabble predates the rise of the term (derived from
> psychobabble, apparantly, in the '80's) One example that should be
> familiar: Asimov's "The Endochronic Properties of Resubliminated
> Thiotimoline"
In ST, it became known as "Treknobabble".
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian
Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." - George W.
Bush, May 29, 2003
Baff
Amy Guskin <ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
> Okay, that was pretty funny. And...jeebus, but that guy talks faster than
> anyone save perhaps the guy from the old FedEx commercials.
He produces one of those insane reviews every week. Even games he loves
he tears to shreds. They are the kind of thing you can watch a second
time to catch stuff you missed the first time. I find them far more
amusing than 99.9% of the trash on youtube, even though the humor is
pretty base at times and not at all politically correct.
Chris Adams
>(Snakes on a plane bombed in spite
>of heavy marketing)
IMHO "Snakes on a Plane" did much better because of the marketing.
Without that, it is a one-week-and-done and then Sci-Fi movie of the
week.
>I saw Serenity with only a vague idea of the series behind it. Of
>course, being written by Josh Whedon made it really interesting for me,
>having liked Buffy and Angel.
That's "Joss". :-)
--
Chris Adams <cma...@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
Giovanni Wassen
> I mean, hey, I love the show as much as anyone here, but let's be
> realistic. I don't think you'll meet very many people who _do_ know
> who Londo and G'Kar are. The closest I usually get to recognition is
> "Oh, that show with the guy with the hair."
Here @work the names Chewie, Han Solo & Obi-Wan don't even ring a bell.
--
Gio
http://www.watkijkikoptv.info
http://myanimelist.net/profile/extatix
http://watkijkikoptv.info/animeblog
Josh Hill
<P.Allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Serenity was a great telemovie... but it wasn't cinematic enough.
>
>And it catered a little too much to the fans. It may have increased
>the fanbase a little but it didn't work as motion picture.
Yeah, similar to my impression.
>ItB didn't completely work either.
>
>The story relied too much on inbuilt fan interest. The death of
>Dukhat and the destruction of the Blackstar were interesting because
>we already knew how important these events. It was really a series of
>vignettes catering to fans and not a good example of what we should be
>looking for.
I've a sample of only one, a friend who watched the show (having
recorded it for me -- I don't remember why, but I couldn't watch it
the day it was aired), watched it himself, and was clearly taken with
it.
>> Of course, I could be very wrong about this. Babylon 5 had a large
>> following, was on the air for five years, became part of our popular
>> culture. I don't think you'll meet very many people who don't know who
>> Londo and G'kar are.
>
>I think you'll find lots of people who don't know who they are. They
>aren't Kirk & Spock.
I'm not sure I want to find those people. They're probably accountants
and boring old couples who live in suburban houses that smell of
mothballs. And they print out their emails and file them.
--
Josh
"What is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?" - Sarah Palin
Josh Hill
wrote:
>Thanks for the reality check. I remember reading this the day Josh wrote it,
>and not having time to reply, but for the briefest of seconds I wondered what
>country he lived in. Then I remembered it was Josh, so US. And my brain
>quietly exploded, and I didn't reply.
>
>I have a fair amount of B5 stuff that I wear and use -- bags, shirts, bomber
>jacket -- and I have _yet_ to run into _anyone_, anywhere, who has said to
>me, "Oh, B5, cool." Or any other sign of recognition. If anyone _does_
>comment on anything I'm wearing/carrying that says "Babylon 5," it's to ask
>what that is.
>
>I mean, hey, I love the show as much as anyone here, but let's be realistic.
>I don't think you'll meet very many people who _do_ know who Londo and G'Kar
>are. The closest I usually get to recognition is "Oh, that show with the guy
>with the hair."
>
>But I wouldn't mind living in Josh's universe, where everyone _does_ know it!
I dunno. I haven't noticed that character recognition for B5 is any
lower than it is for other successful TV shows. Not as high as Star
Trek, of course, which has had many years in which to become iconic,
or some series with higher ratings. But still, it was on for five
years, and on the cover of TV guide and what have you.
Josh Hill
While I don't of course have any objective data, that hasn't been my
experience. There are many who were exposed to the show peripherally
but didn't watch it regularly, which is true of any show. B5 may not
have been a #1 sitcom on NBC, but neither was it an underground
phenomenon or something that appeared only on the Sci Fi channel.
Duggy
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:24:11 -0800 (PST),Duggy
> <P.Allan.Dug...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Serenity was a great telemovie... but it wasn't cinematic enough.
> >And it catered a little too much to the fans. It may have increased
> >the fanbase a little but it didn't work as motion picture.
> Yeah, similar to my impression.
Good, common ground to work from.
> >ItB didn't completely work either.
> >The story relied too much on inbuilt fan interest. The death of
> >Dukhat and the destruction of the Blackstar were interesting because
> >we already knew how important these events. It was really a series of
> >vignettes catering to fans and not a good example of what we should be
> >looking for.
> I've a sample of only one, a friend who watched the show (having
> recorded it for me -- I don't remember why, but I couldn't watch it
> the day it was aired), watched it himself, and was clearly taken with
> it.
True, but the person I went to see Serenity with went on to buy the
series on DVD.
Like Serenity, ItB may have increased the fanbase a little but it
still isn't what you're looking for in a blockbuster.
> >I think you'll find lots of people who don't know who they are. They
> >aren't Kirk & Spock.
> I'm not sure I want to find those people. They're probably accountants
> and boring old couples who live in suburban houses that smell of
> mothballs. And they print out their emails and file them.
They're people. Ordinary, everyday people.
People that buy movie tickets and take things from "failed" to break
even to "blockbuster."
===
= DUG.
===
Josh Hill
<P.Allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>True, but the person I went to see Serenity with went on to buy the
>series on DVD.
>
>Like Serenity, ItB may have increased the fanbase a little but it
>still isn't what you're looking for in a blockbuster.
No, but ItB was a TV movie, with all that that implies -- smaller
cast, poor shooting ratio, simpler sets and effects, action directed
for the small screen, etc. And it had a specific role, roping people
into the series, so it had to interest newbies, fill them in on the
backstory, and satisfy fans eager to have one or another arc mystery
resolved, all at the same time. Joss Whedon wasn't able by virtue of
resources or habit to make the transition from the small screen to
cinema, but JMS of course writes for the big screen as well as
television and has made it clear that he isn't going to work with
inadequate resources.
>> >I think you'll find lots of people who don't know who they are. They
>> >aren't Kirk & Spock.
>> I'm not sure I want to find those people. They're probably accountants
>> and boring old couples who live in suburban houses that smell of
>> mothballs. And they print out their emails and file them.
>
>They're people. Ordinary, everyday people.
>
>People that buy movie tickets and take things from "failed" to break
>even to "blockbuster."
I'm no expert in the demographics of filmgoers, but I'm not sure how
many of those people go to see blockbuster movies. I think the
audience for blockbusters tends to be disproportionately youthful,
pre-adolescents, adolescents, and young adults. Adults I think are
more likely to go to the relatively few movies that are made for
grownups, and in smaller numbers.
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> And, if you're talking blockbusters, you need big FX/action pieces.
> Not that that's impossible in B5, but it's an issue.
With known battles on both Earth and Mars the Telepath War has
infantry fights and explosions written all over it. Plenty of
room to bring in new people.
Andrew Swallow
Jeffrey Kaplan
> With known battles on both Earth and Mars the Telepath War has
> infantry fights and explosions written all over it. Plenty of
> room to bring in new people.
But, unfortunately such a plot would likely cater almost exclusively to
the existing fan base. To make a B5 movie a "blockbuster", it would
have to have a plot that stands on its own.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"So what's the plan?" "Find the stargate." "Find the stargate?
That's the plan?" "Elegant in its simplicity, don't you think?" -
Daniel Jackson and Jack O'Neill, SG1
Amy Guskin
<9fcro4t2jhmdoo5g3...@4ax.com>):
Actually, people across every demographic go to blockbusters. That's what
makes them blockbusters.
Amy Guskin
<h5oro415g93j2a6qf...@gordol.org>):
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Andrew Swallow said:
>
>> With known battles on both Earth and Mars the Telepath War has
>> infantry fights and explosions written all over it. Plenty of
>> room to bring in new people.
>
> But, unfortunately such a plot would likely cater almost exclusively to
> the existing fan base. To make a B5 movie a "blockbuster", it would
> have to have a plot that stands on its own. <<
Why do you think that a movie about the Telepath War couldn't stand on its
own? I don't think that the amount of background required to make the
average viewer understand it would be insurmountable. Remember, the average
viewer doesn't have to know EVERYTHING about the series, like we do. We'll
get more out of it, obviously, but I'm fairly certain JMS could write a movie
about the Telepath War that non-B5-fanatics could enjoy and understand.
I think someone else -- maybe Joe DeMartino -- said something nearly
identical the other day.
Joseph DeMartino
> I'm no expert in the demographics of filmgoers, but I'm not sure how
> many of those people go to see blockbuster movies. I think the
> audience for blockbusters tends to be disproportionately youthful,
> pre-adolescents, adolescents, and young adults. Adults I think are
> more likely to go to the relatively few movies that are made for
> grownups, and in smaller numbers.
Actually it is the demo for the *average* movie that skews
disproportionately young. Blockbusters are precisely those movies
that pull in adults *as well as* teenagers and twenty-somethings."The
Exorcist", "Jaws", "Titanic" and the "Star Wars" films *all* drew
substantial adult audiences.
Regards,
Joe
Jeffrey Kaplan
> >> With known battles on both Earth and Mars the Telepath War has
> > But, unfortunately such a plot would likely cater almost exclusively to
> > the existing fan base. To make a B5 movie a "blockbuster", it would
> > have to have a plot that stands on its own. <<
>
> Why do you think that a movie about the Telepath War couldn't stand on its
> own? I don't think that the amount of background required to make the
> average viewer understand it would be insurmountable. Remember, the average
> viewer doesn't have to know EVERYTHING about the series, like we do. We'll
> get more out of it, obviously, but I'm fairly certain JMS could write a movie
> about the Telepath War that non-B5-fanatics could enjoy and understand.
How to separate it from the backstory? And no, I'm not asking for
story ideas.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
"Never play cards with a man called Doc. Never eat at a place called
Mom's. Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your
own." Nelson Algren
Joseph DeMartino
> How to separate it from the backstory? And no, I'm not asking for
> story ideas.
You DON'T separate it from the backstory. You just limit yourself to
the *essential* backstory that the audience needs to know in order to
follow the particular story you are actually telling. How much time
did "X-Men" spend on establishing the existance of super-powered
mutants, the prejudice against them, and the opposing forces of Xavier
and Magnus? 10 minutes? 12? The Teep situation in "B5" is almost
exactly analogous to the mutant situation in "X-Men" (telepaths *are*
mutants, after all) - a movie that did very well by appealing far
beyond the it "core" audience of comic book geeks.
You don't need to rehash the whole story of the Shadow War to tell the
story of the Telepath War. Again, because we know the whole history
of the thing, because we see all the interconnections, we think it is
all *necessary*. But it isn't. As Amy said, we would enjoy a richer
experience for having seen the series than moviegoers brand new to
"B5", but that doesn't mean those newbies wouldn't be able to follow
the plot. "Star Trek II" did very well among non-"Trek" fans because
it was a rollicking good adventure story that was accessible to people
who had never seen a single episode of the series. Did it mean more
to those who remembered "Space Seed" and for whom the characters were
old friends? Sure. But their dollars counted for no more at the box
office than those of the newbies. <g>
Regards,
Joe
Duggy
> I'm no expert in the demographics of filmgoers, but I'm not sure how
> many of those people go to see blockbuster movies.
Everyone goes to blockbusters. That's the point. That's why they
lack nudity and overly graphic violence.
> I think the
> audience for blockbusters tends to be disproportionately youthful,
But not solely.
> Adults I think are
> more likely to go to the relatively few movies that are made for
> grownups, and in smaller numbers.
Blockbusters are made for adults, too.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> How to separate it from the backstory? And no, I'm not asking for
> story ideas.
Every film or TV show has a backstory, whether it has been made or
not.
It is the quality of the writer that determines how and how much is
told.
===
= DUG.
===
Wes Struebing
Indeed. I believe someone already said that's why they're called
"blockbusters"...
(cross-demographic lines)
esoterik...@gmail.com
> Have you forgotten that little rebellion some two hundred and thirty
> three years ago? Since then, it takes something rather extraordinary
> for an American to get a British award. Something on the level like
> saving the British Isles from the Germans during a world war.
A remarkably bigoted comment for a B5 fan, displaying a complete
historical lack of understanding, bravo.
Jeffrey Kaplan
esoterik...@gmail.com said:
Explain why that was bigoted or lacked understanding.
--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection
Tips for the Trusted Lieutenant: 9. Find out what happened to your
predecessor. Learn from it.
mpvork...@hotmail.com
> Previously on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated, Dan Dassow said:
>
> > On Feb 3, 4:31 am, Baff <b...@gemmary.com> wrote:
> > > In article <o45do4tsd5103q5n09dlv446f8sc9tg...@gordol.org>,
> > > Jeffrey Kaplan <gor...@gordol.org> wrote:
>
> > > > Draal does not like it when you try to increase the output of the
> > > > tachyon emitter by reversing the polarity of a Heisenberg/Cochran
> > > > Subspace Transducer Array.
>
> > > That sounds more like a Doctor Who solution than Star Trek. I'm pretty
> > > sure I watched a Jon Pertwee episode yesterday where he offered exactly
> > > that solution to some problem.
>
> > It is also characteristic of Star Trek: Voyager, AKA, Star Trek: Capt.
> > Janeway's Favorite Technobabble.
>
> Geordie LaForge did it quite frequently in TNG.
Read Jimmy Doohan's book, Jeff. At one point he's prepping for a scene
with Levar, and asks him why all the techspeak. "I kmow real
engineers, Levar. They don't talk like that."
"Maybe not, but Rick Berman likes it, and he signs the paychecks."
Thus explaining the whole shootin' match.
Mike
Ron
- Ron
On Jan 20, 1:07 pm, Dan Dassow <dan_das...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 20, 12:48 pm, Jan <janmschroe...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 20, 1:39 pm, Amy Guskin <aisl...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:17:36 -0500, thus spake GaryTheGreat (in article
>
> > > <eded54c2-b712-4160-821a-a3671c29a...@d32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>):
>
> > > > [ The following text is in the "windows-1252" character set. ]
> > > > [ Your display is set for the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
> > > > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>
> > > > I don't mean to get everyone's hopes up unnecessarily, but I ran
> > > > across this article this morning.
>
> > >http://sknr.net/2009/01/19/warner-bros-may-be-ready-to-bring-babylon-...
>
> > > > big-screen/
>
> > > > The substantial quote of this article is "Warner Bros has initiated
> > > > contact to ask JMS just how ?Big? does it have to be in order to bring
> > > > Babylon 5 to the screen." I'm not sure who their "jms source" is, and
> > > > I have my doubts as to the authenticity. My motto usually is it ain't
> > > > so until jms let's us know. If anyone has additional information, it
> > > > would be appreciated. <<
>
> > > If this is on the level, it's a shame it took them this long to figure it out
> > > -- it would have been nice if we could have had a movie that included G'Kar
> > > and Franklin.
>
> > It's on the level. It's based on comments JMS made in an interview
> > with the blogger for NYCC. Check out:
>
> >http://www.mediumatlarge.net/2009/01/battlestar-would-win-jms-sits-do...
>
> > Whether anything will come of it...time will tell, I guess.
>
> > Jan
>
> Much as I would love to see a Babylon 5 feature film produced with an
> appropriate budget, I would hope that JMS waits in negotiating the
> deal until after Ninja Assassin, World War Z, They Marched into
> Sunlight, Lensman, and Forbidden Planet are filmed, produced and
> distributed. Warner Brothers needs to fully understand their folly in
> trying to produce a Babylon 5 film on the cheap. In a total flight of
> fancy, it would be interesting to see Clint Eastwood direct a Babylon
> 5 feature film.
>
> Dan Dassow- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
lizardgirl
> I was thinking Ron Howard as the directory for the next B5 movie.
>
directory? as in stripped naked and written upon. :^)
lg
(i know, i know. it was a type-o, i just couldn't help myself.)
Support Autism Research!
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Dan Dassow
> On Feb 17, 1:01 am, Ron <apart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was thinking Ron Howard as the directory for the next B5 movie.
>
> directory? as in stripped naked and written upon. :^)
>
> lg
>
> (i know, i know. it was a type-o, i just couldn't help myself.)
lg, I think we need to warn Ron Howard about you. :-b
Dan Dassow
lizardgirl
what! why so mean! :^) the hubby and i kicked back with some double
chocolate strouts and watched 'quills' in celebration of valentines
day.
guess i was still in the zone.
lg
Amy Guskin
<82aae1ad-e899-4f0f...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>):
Mmm, would that be Young's?
lizardgirl
> >> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:21:00 -0500, thus spake lizardgirl (in article
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 5:22 pm, Dan Dassow <dan_das...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 17, 5:40 pm, lizardgirl <gab...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Feb 17, 1:01 am, Ron <apart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> I was thinking Ron Howard as the directory for the next B5 movie.
>
> >>> directory? as in stripped naked and written upon. :^)
>
> >>> lg
>
> >>> (i know, i know. it was a type-o, i just couldn't help myself.)
>
> >> lg, I think we need to warn Ron Howard about you. :-b
>
> > what! why so mean! :^) the hubby and i kicked back with some double
> > chocolate strouts and watched 'quills' in celebration of valentines
> > day. <<
>
> Mmm, would that be Young's?
>
yes, yes it would. :^)
lg