ATTN JMS:"Next Two Weeks are going to be Critical..."

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Gropo

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:41:45 AM2/23/05
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Fearless leader,

On January 30, in an email titled
"Quickie from JMS" you posted this concerning TMoS:

"I'd say that the next two weeks are going to be critical for the
future of
TMoS. There have been a variety of conversations about a variety of
things and
people, and some offers are starting to go out to various
individuals...so we
shall see what we shall see."


We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even though 3
weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?

Moyra J. Bligh

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Feb 23, 2005, 10:42:28 PM2/23/05
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To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend, "It's
dead".

--
Moyra J. Bligh - mo...@zlatna.com
FAQ maintainer - alt.fan.mira-furlan http://www.zlatna.com/MFfaq.html
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

krueg...@hotmail.com

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:02:02 PM2/23/05
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Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
> >
> >We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even
though 3
> >weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
>
> To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend,
"It's
> dead".

What? When she said this, was she referring to her appearing in TMoS?
Or are you saying she's basically claimed publicly that the entire
project is a no-go?


Moyra J. Bligh

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Feb 23, 2005, 11:11:49 PM2/23/05
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:02:02 +0000 (UTC), krueg...@hotmail.com
wrote:

Mira was talking about the entire movie.

Thunder, Agent '005

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Feb 24, 2005, 3:04:53 AM2/24/05
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If that's the case then I wonder if/when Joe can tell us something...

t.k.

Oron Port

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Feb 24, 2005, 8:06:16 AM2/24/05
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Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:02:02 +0000 (UTC), krueg...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>>Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
>>
>>>>We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even
>>
>>though 3
>>
>>>>weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
>>>
>>>To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend,
>>>"It's dead".
>>
>>What? When she said this, was she referring to her appearing in TMoS?
>>Or are you saying she's basically claimed publicly that the entire
>>project is a no-go?
>
>
> Mira was talking about the entire movie.
>

This is news (to me). DAMN!!!

Oron

Arlen Roy Kundert

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Feb 24, 2005, 8:40:38 AM2/24/05
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> Mira was talking about the entire movie.
Speaking for ONLY myself, I'd rather see it not happen at all than be
recasted.

There's only one John J. Sheridan, one G'Kar, one Delenn, ect.

If it's put on "ice" for a time, so be it. To quote JMS: "...Simply
put...I'm in no hurry. I'd rather get it right than get it done on
Tuesday." http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/116.html


Moyra J. Bligh

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Feb 24, 2005, 8:58:25 AM2/24/05
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:40:38 +0000 (UTC), "Arlen Roy Kundert"
<arkofth...@juno.com> wrote:

>> Mira was talking about the entire movie.
>Speaking for ONLY myself, I'd rather see it not happen at all than be
>recasted.

It wasn't being recast - that's how Mira knows it's dead.

>There's only one John J. Sheridan, one G'Kar, one Delenn, ect.

--

LK

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Feb 24, 2005, 9:06:57 AM2/24/05
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 03:42:28 +0000 (UTC), Moyra J. Bligh
<mo...@zlatna.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:41:45 +0000 (UTC), "Gropo"
><ve...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Fearless leader,
>>
>>On January 30, in an email titled
>>"Quickie from JMS" you posted this concerning TMoS:
>>
>>"I'd say that the next two weeks are going to be critical for the
>>future of
>>TMoS. There have been a variety of conversations about a variety of
>>things and
>>people, and some offers are starting to go out to various
>>individuals...so we
>>shall see what we shall see."
>>
>>
>>We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even though 3
>>weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
>
>To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend, "It's
>dead".


There is a dignity in something being dead for the right reasons.

LK


DJK

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Feb 24, 2005, 11:51:57 AM2/24/05
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If TMOS is no more, will JMS start releasing the big story
(Rangers,Drahk,Teep War) in novel form. I loved the first trilogies and
would love to see more of the story on the bigscreen, little screen, or in
book form. Heck, the books let you add more development anyway.

Both Thirdspace and In the Beginning novels had a LOT more info than the
movies.

Mac Breck

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Feb 24, 2005, 12:47:33 PM2/24/05
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"Thunder, Agent '005" <dece...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:YTfTd.492054$Xk.280397@pd7tw3no...

Figures. Guess the studio wouldn't budge on recasting. Still, it's
better dead than recast. Maybe we'll get it in novels in 10 or 20
years.

--
Mac Breck (KoshN) - from the desktop PC
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Gideon: I thought you said you don't hold a grudge.
Galen: I don't. I have no surviving enemies... at all.

"Brimstone" (1998)
The Devil: Nobody beats the Devil. Are you listening? Did you hear what
I said, Mr. Stone? Nobody beats the Devil.
Ezekiel Stone: So you keep telling me. <enjoying his Reggie Bar> Go to
Hell...<smiles and pushes the Down button on the elevator> ...please.

Chris Kocher

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Feb 24, 2005, 1:28:37 PM2/24/05
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Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:40:38 +0000 (UTC), "Arlen Roy Kundert"
> <arkofth...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>>Speaking for ONLY myself, I'd rather see it not happen at all than be
>>recasted.
>
>
> It wasn't being recast - that's how Mira knows it's dead.


Hmmmm... *very* interesting. So all the recasting frenzy around here...
for what?

Thanks very much for the info, even if it's not what we'd necessarily
want to hear about the movie (i.e., it's dead).


Chris

Methuselah Jones

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Feb 24, 2005, 1:44:01 PM2/24/05
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Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
Moyra J. Bligh of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:

> To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend, "It's
> dead".

"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead." (Miracle Max,
"The Princess Bride")

No offense to Mira, but I'll wait until we hear the details from JMS until
I sing any funeral dirges. Maybe it's just mostly dead.

--
Methuselah
"I never met a lasagna I didn't like."
-- Garfield

Andrew Swallow

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Feb 24, 2005, 2:06:20 PM2/24/05
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Methuselah Jones wrote:
[snip]

> No offense to Mira, but I'll wait until we hear the details from JMS until
> I sing any funeral dirges. Maybe it's just mostly dead.
>
If Warner Brothers have decided not to make a movie then the film rights
may be obtained cheaply.

The script may reappear as a "Movie of the Week" or straight to DVD. It
is time to see if Pay for Download works.

Note: I purchased the 3 Babylon 5 MoW on Monday. The set was second in
the tv chart of the British nationwide newsagent W H Smiths. This
placing was on the advance orders. Season 5 has dropped from 2nd down
to 10th place.

Andrew Swallow

Rob Perkins

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Feb 24, 2005, 3:08:31 PM2/24/05
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Andrew Swallow wrote:

> If Warner Brothers have decided not to make a movie then the film rights
> may be obtained cheaply.

...unless, like so many other things B5 which have died, the
rights-owners decide that no price is high enough. In spite of
deep-seated interest in a BSG feature film, for example, Universal never
sold the rights to anyone, including Richard Hatch.

Rob

Vorlonagent

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Feb 24, 2005, 4:29:08 PM2/24/05
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"Chris Kocher" <cko...@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:71pTd.27539$vK5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

A problem I've noticed with the B5 Universe is that it doesn't seem to
travel well.

"Travel" in the sense of transferring to a new cast of characters. It seems
like a lot of the mythic power of the B5 universe is locked up in the core
characters of B5 itself.

Call to Arms did well, but then Sheridan was in the captain's chair too.

Crusade started marignal, got better, but was still just starting to find
its feet.

Then there's "Legend of the Rangers"...

If I were a Suit, I would be very concerned about a B5 movie that didn't
involve the primary cast of B5.

But then as a Suit, I would be discounting JMS as a writer.


--
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent

"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."

"The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to
fit their views
....which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that
needs altering."
-The Doctor


Ian Galbraith

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Feb 24, 2005, 9:03:15 PM2/24/05
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:29:08 +0000 (UTC), "Vorlonagent"
<j...@otfresno.com> wrote:

[snip]

>A problem I've noticed with the B5 Universe is that it doesn't seem to
>travel well.

>"Travel" in the sense of transferring to a new cast of characters. It seems
>like a lot of the mythic power of the B5 universe is locked up in the core
>characters of B5 itself.

Not IMHO, the power is in JMS's writing. If TMOS has been axed as a
result of recasting what sounded like essentially cameo roles for
original cast members then its a damn shame IMHO.

>Call to Arms did well, but then Sheridan was in the captain's chair too.

>Crusade started marignal, got better, but was still just starting to find
>its feet.

Crusade was only marginal due to TNT's interference, the original
episodes are great.

[snip]

Vorlonagent

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Feb 24, 2005, 10:32:31 PM2/24/05
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"Ian Galbraith" <igalb...@ozonline.com.au> wrote in message
news:in1t11l39o72abt50...@4ax.com...


I'd have to disagree. Crusade has two batches of episodes, one good, one
not so.

The earlier episodes (by episode number) tend to be the more questionable to
me and the later ones tend to be the better ones, which suggests that TNT
did Crusade a favor by interveneing, even if some of the things TNT wanted
were outright silly and stupid. JMS was right to stand firm on most of the
things he opposed.

The result was we got the best of both worlds...and then the show was
cancelled.

Lee Jamilkowski

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Feb 24, 2005, 11:10:43 PM2/24/05
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Oh, well. I was looking forward to bigscreen B5.

I'm sure this means there's an interesting story or two that JMS will
have to relate to us at some future point.

Lee

"Moyra J. Bligh" <mo...@zlatna.com> wrote in message
news:3qkq11dthrcecoroh...@4ax.com...

Moyra J. Bligh

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Feb 24, 2005, 11:56:38 PM2/24/05
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:44:01 +0000 (UTC), Methuselah Jones
<methu...@altgeek.org> wrote:

>"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead." (Miracle Max,
>"The Princess Bride")
>
>No offense to Mira, but I'll wait until we hear the details from JMS until
>I sing any funeral dirges. Maybe it's just mostly dead.

I've transcribed the relevant piece of her Q&A session.

======================================================================

"And then I don't know if you know that there was a movie that was
going to happen, a Babylon 5 movie and that there were all kinds of
things that were happening around that.... And finally, no movie! No
movie....

But, maybe it will resurface again ... I'm sure it will, 'cause it's
somehow... it's floating around, that idea and I think it's going to
happen in some other reincarnation, that particular one it won't.

So, um...

It was supposed to be a, well, a reunion, which as I say is never
going to be a real one."[1]

======================================================================

[1] she had been talking earlier about the deaths of Rick Biggs and
Tim Choate and how no Babylon 5 cast reunion would ever be the same
again.

Mac Breck

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:12:26 AM2/25/05
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"Vorlonagent" <j...@otfresno.com> wrote in message
news:q-udnYPjvOG...@sti.net...

You have GOT to be kidding. TNT was right only about the uniforms, but
they were wrong about imposing that uniform change mid-season. If they
were going to insist upon a uniform change in the first season, they
should have anted up for reshooting the first five episodes with the new
uniforms.


Production Order:

Grey/Red Uniform Episodes
101 The Needs of Earth
102 The Memory of War
103 Racing the Night
104 Visitors from Down the Street
105 Each Night I Dream of Home

Of the first five, the only weak one was 105, but still, it had a lot of
great dialogue.

The first production shutdown.

Black Uniform Episodes:
106 The Well of Forever
107 The Long Road
108 War Zone
109 The Path of Sorrows
110 Patterns of the Soul
111 Ruling from the Tomb
112 The Rules of the Game
113 Appearances and Other Deceits

Of the last eight, the weak ones were 108 and 111.

> even if some of the things TNT wanted
> were outright silly and stupid. JMS was right to stand firm on most
of the
> things he opposed.
>
> The result was we got the best of both worlds...and then the show was
> cancelled.

What we got was a Humpty-Dumpty puzzle, a mish-mash of good and bad
that's impossible to put together correctly, because TNT didn't have the
balls or sense to do it right.

Andrew Swallow

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Feb 25, 2005, 6:17:39 PM2/25/05
to
I can understand a top executive who has never seen Babylon 5 wanting to
put his own people into the show. This is a traditional way of
consolidating power. However this does not apply to an independent
producer, they need every bit of help that they can get. The star’s
fans are a major aid.

NEW BABYLON 5 PRODUCTION LIMITED (id = 05155023) was probably a £100
(approx $200) company. Is it not up for sale?

I bid £110.00

Andrew Swallow

jms...@aol.com

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:10:37 PM2/25/05
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I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
soonish on another subject.

jms

-----------------------------------------------

The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
only one will ever get made...if that.

A little over a year ago, I was approached by a company that wanted to
make a Babylon 5 movie. They optioned the rights, and commissioned a
script. (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
long run.)

Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it; without that, things become very problematic,
especially as far as the financing was concerned. You much have to put
together a consortium of international interests and business plans
rivaled in complexity only by the Allied invasion of Normandy Beach.

Nonetheless, every attempt was made by the people involved to get this
deal in place. This was not being done by Doug or myself, but rather
by the company/individuals who approached us and optioned the rights.
At times, it seemed we were inches away from a deal...stages were
reserved at Elstree, actors were contacted, a director was in place,
the script went through many revisions, a few key staff were hired,
again not by me...it was really a year-long roller coaster ride.
During that time, the people involved, with every good intention, tried
very hard to pull the necessary pieces together on the deal. The
option expired in late December 2004, but I renewed it without cost, to
give those involved more time to try and make things work.

In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended. Nor do I think this particular incarnation
will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
benefit of hindsight.

This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.

To that end...I can wait.

Anyway, just thought you should know the story.

jms


copyright (c) 2005 by
Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Reprint permission specifically
denied to SFX Magazine


Mac Breck

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:22:37 PM2/25/05
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<jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio, e.g.
Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
just not how things are done?

--
Mac Breck (KoshN) - from the desktop PC
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)
Gideon: I thought you said you don't hold a grudge.
Galen: I don't. I have no surviving enemies... at all.

"Brimstone" (1998)
The Devil: Nobody beats the Devil. Are you listening? Did you hear what
I said, Mr. Stone? Nobody beats the Devil.
Ezekiel Stone: So you keep telling me. <enjoying his Reggie Bar> Go to
Hell...<smiles and pushes the Down button on the elevator> ...please.


snip

Jan

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:39:14 PM2/25/05
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In article <1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
jms...@aol.com says...

>
>The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
>comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
>right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
>up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>
>To that end...I can wait.
>
>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>
>jms
>
>copyright (c) 2005 by
>Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
>Reprint permission specifically
>denied to SFX Magazine
>

Thanks for the official word, JMS. Sorry it's not to be yet, but I'm so glad
that you hold the rights to this one because there's no doubt you'll do it
right.

Jan


--
Richard Biggs Memorial Show - A day with his friends - Saturday, March 19, 2005.
For more info: http://www.richardbiggs.com/

Rob Perkins

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:51:26 PM2/25/05
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Jan wrote:

> Thanks for the official word, JMS. Sorry it's not to be yet, but I'm so glad
> that you hold the rights to this one because there's no doubt you'll do it
> right.
>
> Jan

So....

What does this mean for the eep contest, Jan?

Rob

Oron Port

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:51:15 PM2/25/05
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Mac Breck wrote:
> Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio, e.g.
> Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
> just not how things are done?
>

From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which
commissioned the script, now has the rights on that particular project.
So probably he can't negotiate such deals by himself.

This is very sad... Although a B5 project can be delayed, but if we want
to see our favorite characters and the actors who play them, it cannot
be delayed too much, since time takes its toll from all. Although the
age difference might serve as a plus if the project is played about ten
years into the future (Telepath war, anyone?).

Oron

Oron Port

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Feb 25, 2005, 7:52:00 PM2/25/05
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Jan wrote:
> In article <1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> jms...@aol.com says...
>
>>The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
>>comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
>>right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
>>up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>>
>>To that end...I can wait.
>>
>>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>>
>>jms
>>
>>copyright (c) 2005 by
>>Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
>>Reprint permission specifically
>>denied to SFX Magazine
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the official word, JMS. Sorry it's not to be yet, but I'm so glad
> that you hold the rights to this one because there's no doubt you'll do it
> right.
>
> Jan
>
>

And so ends the Eep saga... What a wonderful time it was...

Oron

Mac Breck

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:01:04 PM2/25/05
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"Oron Port" <zora...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net...

> Mac Breck wrote:
> > Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio,
e.g.
> > Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
> > just not how things are done?
> >
>
> From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which
> commissioned the script, now has the rights on that particular
project.
> So probably he can't negotiate such deals by himself.

But for how long? Doesn't have to be a whole year (thru Dec. 2005),
does it?

Amy Guskin

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:02:12 PM2/25/05
to
>>On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:51:15 -0500, Oron Port wrote
(in article <421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net>):

The Telepath War takes place 2264-65. That's about two years after the end
of season 5.

Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It gives me
some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write Joe a
blank check?

Amy

--
http://www.zongoftheweek.com
Free and legal downloads of fun, original songs

Jan

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:04:19 PM2/25/05
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In article <389vg2F...@individual.net>, Rob Perkins says...

Stay tuned...I'm drafting that now.

Paul Harper

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:04:45 PM2/25/05
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On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:10:37 +0000 (UTC), jms...@aol.com wrote:

>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.

Better luck next time. Whatever happens, I am sure you'll do it right,
and do it in your own way, irrespective of unwanted outside
interference.

Chin up.

Paul.

--
. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
. JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."
. EMail: Unless invited to, don't. Your message is likely to be automatically deleted.

Oron Port

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:05:16 PM2/25/05
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Amy Guskin wrote:
> The Telepath War takes place 2264-65. That's about two years after the end
> of season 5.

Oh, yeah, how stupid of me. For some reason I thought it took place
after Crusade. Thanks for the clarification.

Oron

Oron Port

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:10:07 PM2/25/05
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jms...@aol.com wrote:
> Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>
> jms

Thank you Joe for everything. Hoping for a better luck next time,
Oron

Andrew Swallow

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:15:59 PM2/25/05
to
Mac Breck wrote:
> "Oron Port" <zora...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:421fc7ac$1...@news.bezeqint.net...
>
>>Mac Breck wrote:
>>
>>>Could you approach another, perhaps more sci-fi friendly, studio,
>
> e.g.
>
>>>Universal (FIREFLY) and Fox (SW) and even Paramount (ST), or is that
>>>just not how things are done?
>>>
>>
>> From what he said I understand that the unnamed company which
>>commissioned the script, now has the rights on that particular
>
> project.
>
>>So probably he can't negotiate such deals by himself.
>
>
> But for how long? Doesn't have to be a whole year (thru Dec. 2005),
> does it?
>
JMS answered that one

" ... So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,


the project has dead ended."

Andrew Swallow

John W. Kennedy

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Feb 25, 2005, 8:18:11 PM2/25/05
to
jms...@aol.com wrote:
> (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
> movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
> I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
> were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
> long run.)

You never told us that!

So that means that there's a decent chance that if and when a B5
theatrical is made, it won't end up being "A Fettes Grey Production",
right? (I say "a decent chance" because I remember only too well how
Steve Gerber loved the "Howard the Duck" movie, until he actually saw it.)

That's some consolation. A considerable consolation, in fact.

--
John W. Kennedy
The solemn hour, "when night and morning meet,"
Mysterious time, to superstition dear,
And superstition’s guides, now passes by;
Deathlike in solitude. The sentinels,
In drowsy tones, from post to post, send on
The signal of the passing hour. "All’s well,"
Sounds through the camp. Alas! all is not well;
Else, why stand I, a man, the friend of man,
At midnight’s depth, deck’d in this murderous guise,
The habiliment of death, the badge of dire,
Necessitous coercion. ’Tis not well.
--In vain the enlighten’d friends of suffering man
Point out, of war, the folly, guilt, and madness.
Still, age succeeds to age, and war to war;
And man, the murderer, marshals out his hosts
In all the gaiety of festive pomp,
To spread around him death and desolation.
How long! how long!----------------
-- William Dunlap: André: A Tragedy in Five Acts (1798)

Andrew Swallow

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 8:26:56 PM2/25/05
to
Amy Guskin wrote:
[snip]

> Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It gives me
> some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write Joe a
> blank check?

Or Bill Gates. Or the people who work for Bill Gates.
Or any of the technology companies and organisations.

To raise $40 million you need 40,000 people to pay $1,000.

Although 40 people paying one million each can do it
with less paperwork.

I would suggest the London stock market but I suspect
that the Thunderbirds film killed that. The banks
have probably already said no. Television stations
(such as the BBC and Channel 4) sometimes fund feature
films, providing they get first showing rights.

Once the banks are out the standard sources of money are
family, friends, fools and fanatics.

Andrew Swallow

krueg...@hotmail.com

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 8:27:22 PM2/25/05
to
Thanks for keeping quality and meaning the key here, JMS. You could
have made some easy bucks on this, probably.

Thanks so much for taking the higher road.


Jan

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 8:28:15 PM2/25/05
to
In article <0001HW.BE4534A8...@news.verizon.net>, Amy Guskin
says...

>
>Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It gives me
>some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write Joe a
>blank check?
>

What's his address? We can always...write letters. ;-)

Jan
(just kidding! Honest!)

Oron Port

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 8:41:31 PM2/25/05
to
Andrew Swallow wrote:

When I have my fantasies on being stinking-rich now and then, I almost
always think about what it would be like to give some big bucks to Joe,
so he'd make the show he would like to see.

Oron

Jan

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 8:44:44 PM2/25/05
to

> Nor do I think this particular incarnation


>will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
>always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
>benefit of hindsight.
>

JMS,

Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation' mean that
this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be used? I
really hope that's not what you meant...

Jan

Christian Hennecke

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 8:54:22 PM2/25/05
to
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:11:49 UTC, Moyra J. Bligh <mo...@zlatna.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 04:02:02 +0000 (UTC), krueg...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Moyra J. Bligh wrote:
> >> >
> >> >We out in the hinterlands haven't seen or heard anything, even
> >though 3
> >> >weeks have passed. Can you say if things go well or not?
> >>
> >> To quote Mira Furlan at VisionCon in Missouri this past weekend,
> >>"It's dead".
> >
> >What? When she said this, was she referring to her appearing in TMoS?
> >Or are you saying she's basically claimed publicly that the entire
> >project is a no-go?
>
> Mira was talking about the entire movie.

Oh CRAP!
--
"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen." - W.H. Auden


Methuselah Jones

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 9:02:29 PM2/25/05
to
Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
<jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:

> When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms I will
> never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have were

> the movie rights.

No wonder WB likes B5 -- they don't have to pay you anything for it.
Kind of puts a different light on buying the DVDs and stuff, knowing
we're just supporting some fat-ass studio execs and not the actual
talent.

> In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did
> not look as if that was going to change at any point in the
> foreseeable future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents
> and purposes, the project has dead ended.

Sorry to hear it, Joe. But know that you and all your hard work are
greatly appreciated by your fans. That which is loved....

--
Methuselah
"Next week, a doctor with a flashlight shows us where sales projections
come from."
-- Dilbert

jms...@aol.com

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 9:22:05 PM2/25/05
to

Methuselah Jones wrote:
> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
> <jms...@aol.com> of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>
> > When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms I
will
> > never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were
> > the movie rights.
>
> No wonder WB likes B5 -- they don't have to pay you anything for it.
> Kind of puts a different light on buying the DVDs and stuff, knowing
> we're just supporting some fat-ass studio execs and not the actual
> talent.
>

That's the great irony of the situation. The criteria told to us right
up front while we were producing B5 was that each of the series on PTEN
had to show a profit *in that year* in order to stay on the air and be
renewed. So we'd have these meetings with studio heads who were
congratulating us on how much money the show was making for them
(again, while we were still making for it), and then look at me,
realize what they'd said, and hurriedly add, "Though technically we're
still in the red."

The show, all in, cost about $110 million to make. Each year of its
original run, we know it showed a profit because they TOLD us so. And
in one case, they actually showed us the figures. It's now been on the
air worldwide for ten years. There's been merchandise, syndication,
cable, books, you name it. The DVDs grossed roughly half a BILLION
dollars (and that was just after they put out S5, without all of the S5
sales in).

So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
red.

Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.

But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
more than anything else.

Doesn't mean I can't tweak 'em about it, though.

jms


Iva

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 9:26:01 PM2/25/05
to
<jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent
eaerlier
> is taking a while to move through the system. So this info
will repeat
> soonish on another subject.
>
> jms
<much snippage>

Damn. <sigh> Well, at least you still have the movie rights.
Hopefully, one day, we will see B5 on the big screen.

Thanks for letting us know, even if it wasn't exactly what we
*really* wanted to hear.

--
Iva

Iva

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 9:27:13 PM2/25/05
to
Jan wrote:

>Amy Guskin wrote:
> >
> >Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself.
It gives me
> >some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to
write Joe a
> >blank check?
> >
>
> What's his address? We can always...write letters. ;-)
>
> Jan
> (just kidding! Honest!)

Hey, I still have some B5 Bucks left! <g>

--
Iva

krueg...@hotmail.com

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 9:29:18 PM2/25/05
to
Tweak away. I can't imagine doing business with such people. Well,
not WB necessarily, I just mean everything I ever hear about "the
business" makes me realize I'd never survive it for even 10 minutes.

Thanks for not making an easy profit at the cost of quality. Your
stories really have inspired. They have given perspective that some of
us might not have gotten otherwise. Stories that make us think, make
us angry, and also make us inspired. (And even if I still can't spell
it right, thanks especially for "Waiting for Gethsemene" and "View from
the Gallery".)

Thanks.

And if it is any kind of consolation to you, you have ruined me for
typical television science fiction now, you know. LOL

;)


Andrew Swallow

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 9:57:26 PM2/25/05
to
jms...@aol.com wrote:
[snip]

> So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
> red.
>
> Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
> down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits.

Is there an end date on this spending and/or contract?

Is this the end of your stay in Britain? Or do you have other work in
progress?

Andrew Swallow

Lisa Stewart

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 10:33:39 PM2/25/05
to

jms...@aol.com wrote:

> But then again, I knew that was the situation going in...I saw the
> writing on the wall (and the contract) from the git-go. I didn't do
> this to build an empire, I wanted to tell this story...and that's worth
> more than anything else.

This is the part that just gets me.

I really want you to have the opportunity to tell some more stories.
All the way -- from start to finish. And it seems that something always
gets in the way. Crusade, Legend of the Rangers, Jeremiah, and now
this. I have a bad case of storius interruptus. *sigh*

I support your decisions and trust your judgment, I'm just mourning the
loss of another great story.

--Lisa

Jeffrey O. Gustafson

unread,
Feb 25, 2005, 10:50:18 PM2/25/05
to
> (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
>movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms

>I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
>were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
>long run.)

!?!!!

Mac Breck

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 8:58:45 AM2/26/05
to
<jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1109376591.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
> is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will
repeat
> soonish on another subject.
>
> jms
>
> -----------------------------------------------
snip
> Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
> Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
> deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
> least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
> directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
> was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
> you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
> they'd get behind it;

And if they hadn't given you the movie rights, I suspect the excuse
would have just been a different one, *or* they would have made a movie
cast with whomever they wanted.

In the current situation, you get older, we get older, and the cast gets
older and less likely to be able to play their parts. The future,
minimal as it is, appears to be in novels. Wonder who's dragging their
feet there, or what the monkeywrench dealbreaker is. Got to be
something like that. "Also, expect word fairly soon-ish about a new
series of B5 novels." was posted back on June 15, 2004, over eight
months ago.

Good grief, wonder if we'll ever get to see any of these stories
resolved before the last of us go beyond the freaking rim. Time to quit
watching the pot. Maybe it'll boil when no one's looking. Probably
not, but what the hell, it's worth a try.

Over and out.

snip

> jms
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> copyright (c) 2005 by
> Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
> Reprint permission specifically
> denied to SFX Magazine

--
Mac Breck (KoshN)


-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999)

Galen: "There is always hope, only because it's the one thing that no
one has figured out how to kill yet."
(Galen's obviously never met Warner Brothers, TNT-Atlanta or Sci-Fi.)

Gunnar René Øie

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 10:10:48 AM2/26/05
to
Jan wrote:

> Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation' mean
> that
> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be
> used? I really hope that's not what you meant...

I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same option.
It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has expired, while
the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the script has to be bought
or an all new story has to be written...)


Dan Dassow

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 11:26:11 AM2/26/05
to

Paul G. Allen, one of Bill Gates's original partners,
would be more likely to bankroll a B5 Movie, although
the chances of that happening is probably nill. Mr. Allen
is the founder of the Science Fiction Museum in
Seattle, Washington.
<http://www.sfhomeworld.org/about/index.asp>

Dan Dassow


Robert

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 11:27:13 AM2/26/05
to

<jms...@aol.com> wrote:
> This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
> and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
> things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
> can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
> The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
> comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
> right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
> up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>
> To that end...I can wait.

> Anyway, just thought you should know the story.


Man, I am just burned at this news. I really was hoping that this project
would work out. However, I also feared a Babylon 5 movie that was dictated
by the studio, and not by JMS.

I'm just disappointed, after having my hopes raised for the last year.
Hopefully someone in Hollywood will see B5 for what it is, and what is it is
worth.


Robert


Amy Guskin

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 11:51:14 AM2/26/05
to
>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar René Øie wrote
(in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1...@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):

I think it would have to be the script. We already know from his post that
JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December and he
extended them a bit, treading water to try to make the project work. That
extension was likely only for a very short term.

I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option. And in any
case, I think that by WGA rules it would _have_ to revert to him if the film
is not made within a certain, contracted period of time. And JMS is too
smart to sign something that would let the script languish in the hands of a
studio for very long (if at all) if the film isn't being made.

Dan Dassow

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 11:52:56 AM2/26/05
to
Jan wrote:
> In article <0001HW.BE4534A8...@news.verizon.net>, Amy
Guskin
> says...
> >
> >Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It
gives me
> >some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write
Joe a
> >blank check?
> >
>
> What's his address? We can always...write letters. ;-)
>
> Jan
> (just kidding! Honest!)
>

Jan, if you were serious, and I am certain
that you are not, you could start a thread
on the message boards at <http://www.starwars.com/>.
Unfortunately, you would probably risk incurring
the wrath of the "true" Star Wars fans and being
banned from ever posting again on that message board.
That would be a small price to pay for getting a B5
film. <*WINK*> <*BIG GRIN*>

You could also appeal to "John Hudgens (Fenn)" to
intervene with Mr. Lucas. For those recent members of
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated who do not know
John Hudgens, he collaborated with JMS on the
creation of promotional music videos for the B5,
which can be seen at Joe's or his own convention
presentations.[1] John also produced one of the funniest
Star Wars parodies ever produced, "The Jedi Hunter"
<http://tinyurl.com/62bjd>
Original URL:
<http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/spotlight/collections/focus/focus_swffa.html>

"The Jedi Hunter" was the 2003 Audience Award Winner,
Star Wars Fan Film Awards!

Dan Dassow
Note:
[1] One of these days I will get to see these videos.
Everyone has mentioned that these are extremely
well done.


Chris Kocher

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:00:59 PM2/26/05
to
jms...@aol.com wrote:


So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
the B5 movie at all.

Ironic, really, considering how much in a tizzy some pople were around here.


Chris

Amy Guskin

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:06:38 PM2/26/05
to
>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:00:59 -0500, Chris Kocher wrote
(in article <IO2Ud.30392$vK5....@twister.nyroc.rr.com>):

> jms...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
>> movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
>> I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
>> were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
>> long run.)
>
>
> So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over
> the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
> the B5 movie at all.<<

That's not what JMS's message says.

Methuselah Jones

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:12:04 PM2/26/05
to
Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Amy
Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:

>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar René Řie wrote


> (in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1...@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
>
>> Jan wrote:
>>
>>> Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation'
>>> mean that
>>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever
>>> be used? I really hope that's not what you meant...
>>
>> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same
>> option. It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has
>> expired, while the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the
>> script has to be bought or an all new story has to be written...)<<
>
> I think it would have to be the script. We already know from his post
> that JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December

That is, the other studio's option on them expired.

> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.

That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce would
be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold onto it.

Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to try
to get some of that money back from it.

--
Methuselah
"Beauty is skin deep. But how rich you are can last a long time."
-- Christine, age 9

Wesley Struebing

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:18:47 PM2/26/05
to
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:10:37 +0000 (UTC), jms...@aol.com wrote:

>I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
>is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
>soonish on another subject.
>
>jms
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>

>The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
>get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
>only one will ever get made...if that.
<"death of a movie" snipped>


>
>This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
>and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
>things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
>can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
>The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
>comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
>right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
>up to what fans and I myself would want to see.
>
>To that end...I can wait.
>
>Anyway, just thought you should know the story.
>

>jms
>
Well, err, crap! Just - crap!

We can wait, too, I think.

Thank you, nonetheless, for the update.

(though I fully expected to see this here about now - I just got done
reading the Zocalo...

....and crap again!

--

Wes Struebing

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.

Amy Guskin

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:20:02 PM2/26/05
to
>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:12:04 -0500, Methuselah Jones wrote
(in article <Xns96098640B97E8me...@216.196.97.131>):

> Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of Amy
> Guskin of rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated make plain:
>

>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:10:48 -0500, Gunnar René Øie wrote


>> (in article <cvq3cf$vp5$1...@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>):
>>
>>> Jan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you expand on this a little? Does 'this particular incarnation'
>>>> mean that
>>>> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever
>>>> be used? I really hope that's not what you meant...
>>>
>>> I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same
>>> option. It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has
>>> expired, while the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the
>>> script has to be bought or an all new story has to be written...)<<
>>
>> I think it would have to be the script. We already know from his post
>> that JMS owns the film rights to B5, and that they expired in December
>
> That is, the other studio's option on them expired.<<

Yeah, thanks, that was badly worded on my part, but that's what I meant: the
production company's option on JMS's property expired.

>>> I'm sure that the script was part and parcel of the movie option.
>
> That would make sense. A script that you have no right to produce would
> be worthless; there would be no reason for the studio to hold onto it.
>
> Although, if they paid to have the script written, they might want to try
> to get some of that money back from it. <<

Well, that work has been _done_ - the script was written - so it's money
already spent. If I code a website for a company and it fails, I don't have
to pay them back for the work I did. I'm not responsible for their bad
business practices.

Chris Kocher

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:20:23 PM2/26/05
to
Amy Guskin wrote:
>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:00:59 -0500, Chris Kocher wrote

>>So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over

>>the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in
>>the B5 movie at all.<<
>
>
> That's not what JMS's message says.

OK, how's this: WB apparently had no role in the movie at the time all
the letters and etc. were being written. The consortium of other backers
was being assembled, and I doubt that WB would have joined them if they
could not have complete ownership.


Chris

Wesley Struebing

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:21:01 PM2/26/05
to
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:26:11 +0000 (UTC), "Dan Dassow"
<dan_d...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Andrew Swallow wrote:
>> Amy Guskin wrote:
>> [snip]
>> > Sad news. But glad to know that JMS holds the rights himself. It
>gives me
>> > some comfort. Now, how can we get Lucas interested enough to write
>Joe a
>> > blank check?
>>

<snip>


>
>Paul G. Allen, one of Bill Gates's original partners,
>would be more likely to bankroll a B5 Movie, although
>the chances of that happening is probably nill. Mr. Allen
>is the founder of the Science Fiction Museum in
>Seattle, Washington.
><http://www.sfhomeworld.org/about/index.asp>
>

....and pretty-much bankrolled Spaceship One, too

Wesley Struebing

unread,
Feb 26, 2005, 1:26:05 PM2/26/05