Attn JMS - And The Sky Full Of Stars Question *SPOILERS*
Mark Holtz
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While the message below deals with the episode "And The Sky Full Of
Stars", this message also contains spoilers for other episodes that
have aired outside of TNT. You have been warned.
[Oh, and yes, I grant reprint question for this question on other
networks, but I deny permission to use my e-mail address for
unsolicited commercial e-mail, more commonly known as SPAM]
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C&C we are online.
In The Beginning, we found out that the Minbari had to keep a close
eye on Sinclair.
In The Gathering (special edition), Delenn's orders were that she was
to observe Sinclair only, and that Kosh (to himself) greeted Sinclair
as Valen.
In Eyes (I believe), amonst other things, in exchange for support to
build the Babylon stations, they got the final word on chosing the CO
of the station.
In Points Of Departure (or was it the episode thereafter), it was
stated that Sinclair was to be Earth ambassador to Minbar, later to
run the Rangers.
In Pasing Through Gethsemane, we find out that Valen was the greatest
Minbari. Was it in the same scene that Valen was a Minbari who was not
of Minbar.
And, in War Without End, we find out that it was Sinclair who travels
back in time in Babylon 4, changed his form to resemble a Minbari via
the Chrisalis machine, and called himself Valen.
So, the questions that lie now with the airing of "And The Sky Full Of
Stars" is....
1. Who was the Minbari who was in Delenn's shower?
2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
--
E-mail: mho...@bigfoot.com | http://www.speedlink.com/mholtz/
c...@zipcon.net
Mark Holtz (mho...@bigfoot.com) wrote:
:
: 1. Who was the Minbari who was in Delenn's shower?
: 2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
: he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
1 - One of the grey Council warrior caste. Doesn't he show up on the
council again when Delenn goes to get the triluminary? (I think he was
played by the same actor who played another warrior caste minbari in
Points of Departure, the one who tries to frame Sheridan.)
2 - His order would be that because the Grey Council would be more
concerned with keeping the end of the war a secret than with keeping
Sinclair alive. They know he has Valen's soul; they don't know that he
went back in time to become Valen. Or more simply, he said it just to keep
Delenn from becoming so attached to the person she was watching that she
might tell him what happened out of sympathy for him.
Jms at B5
>1. Who was the Minbari who was in Delenn's shower?
A member of the Grey Council, seen in later episodes.
>2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
>he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
Because if the word about the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got out before their
people could be prepared, it could rip Minbari society apart...and since the
Minbari also believe in reincarnation, better to "recycle" Valen's soul than
see the world he cared so much about torn asunder.
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
Steve Sloan
On 14 Jan 1998, Mark Holtz wrote:
> _____ _____ _____ __ __ _____ _____ _____
> | ___| ___ | | | | | ___| ___ | ___|
> |___ | __| | | | |__| ___| __|___ |
> |_____|__| |_____|__|_____|_____|__|\_|_____|
>
> While the message below deals with the episode "And The Sky Full Of
> Stars", this message also contains spoilers for other episodes that
> have aired outside of TNT. You have been warned.
>
> [Oh, and yes, I grant reprint question for this question on other
> networks, but I deny permission to use my e-mail address for
> unsolicited commercial e-mail, more commonly known as SPAM]
> C&C we are online.
>
> So, the questions that lie now with the airing of "And The Sky Full Of
> Stars" is....
>
> 1. Who was the Minbari who was in Delenn's shower?
> 2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened.
> If he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand,
> Delenn?"
Possibly because he was merely a member of the military caste, so
he didn't know Sinclair would become Valen. Maybe he just wanted
Sinclair's capture and interrogation to stay secret from the humans.
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Sloan E-mail: ssl...@cs.uah.edu
Computer Science graduate at the University of Alabama in Huntsville
Science fiction and raytracing pictures and links:
http://mars.cs.uah.edu/cs/students/ssloan/ Main home page
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/3148 POV-Ray Objects
"Look at the way... We go out walkin' close together. I guess you
could say... I'm really beside myself... I think I'm a clone, now, I
can stay at home while I'm out of tow-own... I think I'm a clone now,
'cause every pair of genes is a hand-me-down." -- Weird Al
Steve Brinich
Mark Holtz wrote:
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> 2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
> he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
Remember, at the time _nobody_ knew that Sinclair would travel back
in time and become Valen -- the Minbari who were present at Sinclair's
interrogation believe (in accordance with their religion) that
Sinclair is a reincarnation of Valen. Killing him would be a Very
Bad Thing, but letting Minbari society be torn apart by having this
revealed before the Minbari generally could be prepared for the
startling notion of Minbari souls being reborn in Human bodies would
be an Even Worse Thing.
--
Steve Brinich ste...@access.digex.net If the government wants us
PGP:89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E to respect the law
http://www.access.digex.net/~steve-b it should set a better example
Rob LeGood
Jms at B5 wrote:
> >2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
> >he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
>
> Because if the word about the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got out before their
> people could be prepared, it could rip Minbari society apart...and since the
> Minbari also believe in reincarnation, better to "recycle" Valen's soul than
> see the world he cared so much about torn asunder.
>
Well, wait a second.. I just had a thought. If the Minbari really
believed in reincarnation, wouldn't it have been better for them to
slaughter the entire human race? Since they thought that their souls
were popping up in humans, by killing them all, their souls would be
born back into Minbari bodies.
Rob.
(Watch Mr.Show with Bob and David. It's funny. There are not paying me
to say this. Really.)
Alan Scobbie
In article <19980115072...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, Jms at B5
<jms...@aol.com> writes
>Because if the word about the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got out before their
>people could be prepared, it could rip Minbari society apart...and since the
>Minbari also believe in reincarnation, better to "recycle" Valen's soul than
>see the world he cared so much about torn asunder.
That last sentence isn't a vague spoiler to a certain S5 episode and a
certain doomed character is it?
********************************<*>Alan<*>******************************
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is lossed upon
the world. The blood-dimmed tide is loosed everywhere
The cerememony of innocence is drowned." The Second Coming, W.B. Yeats
************************************************al...@the-one.demon.co.uk
Laura M. Appelbaum
Rob LeGood wrote:
>
> Jms at B5 wrote:
> > >2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
> > >he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
> >
> > Because if the word about the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got out before their
> > people could be prepared, it could rip Minbari society apart...and since the
> > Minbari also believe in reincarnation, better to "recycle" Valen's soul than
> > see the world he cared so much about torn asunder.
> >
>
> Well, wait a second.. I just had a thought. If the Minbari really
> believed in reincarnation, wouldn't it have been better for them to
> slaughter the entire human race? Since they thought that their souls
> were popping up in humans, by killing them all, their souls would be
> born back into Minbari bodies.
>
I *DO* hope you aren't a member of any kind of clergy ... <G> Your
conclusion doesn't even make "religious" sense, since the Minbari think
that what is happening is that their souls are becoming Human souls --
NOT the other way around! The "evidence" is that it DOESN"T work the
other way around since the Minbari population itself has been
diminishing over time. If they killed all the Humans, first off, they'd
be sinning big time by violating Valen's law against Minbari killing
Minbari. Bad enough that they'd been doing it in ignorance, but to do so
CONSCIOUSLY ... VERY bad karma!!!!
Second off, what's to say that if all Humans were destroyed, those souls
wouldn't perish as well, or be reborn into the bodies of an even MORE
(from the Minbari perspective) primitive and unattractive race?
No, what you propose is NOT a good idea!
LMA
John & Linda VanSickle
Laura M. Appelbaum wrote:
>
> Rob LeGood wrote:
> >
> > Jms at B5 wrote:
> > > >2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
> > > >he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
> > >
> > > Because if the word about the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got out before their
> > > people could be prepared, it could rip Minbari society apart...and since the
> > > Minbari also believe in reincarnation, better to "recycle" Valen's soul than
> > > see the world he cared so much about torn asunder.
> > >
> >
> > Well, wait a second.. I just had a thought. If the Minbari really
> > believed in reincarnation, wouldn't it have been better for them to
> > slaughter the entire human race? Since they thought that their souls
> > were popping up in humans, by killing them all, their souls would be
> > born back into Minbari bodies.
> >
> I *DO* hope you aren't a member of any kind of clergy ... <G> Your
> conclusion doesn't even make "religious" sense, since the Minbari think
> that what is happening is that their souls are becoming Human souls --
> NOT the other way around! The "evidence" is that it DOESN"T work the
> other way around since the Minbari population itself has been
> diminishing over time. If they killed all the Humans, first off, they'd
> be sinning big time by violating Valen's law against Minbari killing
> Minbari. Bad enough that they'd been doing it in ignorance, but to do so
> CONSCIOUSLY ... VERY bad karma!!!!
Thou hast lost an eighth!
> Second off, what's to say that if all Humans were destroyed, those souls
> wouldn't perish as well, or be reborn into the bodies of an even MORE
> (from the Minbari perspective) primitive and unattractive race?
A bunch of Neelixes, perhaps?
--
"But the next thing I knew, one of them was dead, the other was dying,
and I was pulling a knife out of my side. And I was laughing."
http://www.erols.com/vansickl
John Schilling
Rob LeGood <rfle...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Jms at B5 wrote:
>> >2. And, why would his order be: "He must never know what happened. If
>> >he should find out, he must be killed. Do you understand, Delenn?"
>>
>> Because if the word about the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got out before their
>> people could be prepared, it could rip Minbari society apart...and since the
>> Minbari also believe in reincarnation, better to "recycle" Valen's soul than
>> see the world he cared so much about torn asunder.
>Well, wait a second.. I just had a thought. If the Minbari really
>believed in reincarnation, wouldn't it have been better for them to
>slaughter the entire human race? Since they thought that their souls
>were popping up in humans, by killing them all, their souls would be
>born back into Minbari bodies.
I imagine this line of thought was quite popular amongst those warrior
caste Minbari who learned of the Grey Council's reasons for surrender.
Theology does tend to be rather flexible when it comes to rationalizing
such matters.
Yet another reason not to tell everyone the "truth".
--
*John Schilling * "You can have Peace, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * or you can have Freedom. *
*University of Southern California * Don't ever count on having both *
*Aerospace Engineering Department * at the same time." *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * - Robert A. Heinlein *
*(213)-740-5311 or 747-2527 * Finger for PGP public key *
Dianne Heins
In article <34bd64a3...@news.speedlink.com>,
Mark Holtz was rumored to have written...
> [Oh, and yes, I grant reprint question for this question on other
> networks, but I deny permission to use my e-mail address for
> unsolicited commercial e-mail, more commonly known as SPAM]
>
>
Well, you already did that by posting it to the known universe and
good luck not getting spam... <g>
--
Dianne <*>
SBRICE
In article <34BEE090...@access.digex.net>, Steve Brinich
<ste...@access.digex.net> writes:
Spoiler space
>Remember, at the time _nobody_ knew that Sinclair would travel back
in time
>and become Valen -- the Minbari who were present at Sinclair's
interrogation
>believe (in accordance with their religion) that
Sinclair is a reincarnation
>of Valen. Killing him would be a Very
Bad Thing, but letting Minbari society
>be torn apart by having this
revealed before the Minbari generally could be
>prepared for the
startling notion of Minbari souls being reborn in Human
>bodies would
be an Even Worse Thing.
Absolutely correct! It wasn't until WWE that this information concerning
Sinclair travelling back with B4 would come to light. Until that time all
anyone knew was that Sinclair was the reincarnation of Valen.
Sarah
God does not play dice with the Universe -- Albert Einstein