ATTN JMS: Star Wars Movie (No Plot Spoilers)
Tammy Smith
against it--the effects are incredible!
BTW, have you seen it yet?
Tammy
Jms at B5
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
B5 Official Fan Club at:
http://www.thestation.com
Vanan
>I just saw TPM today, & I can see why you feared putting a B5 movie up
>against it--the effects are incredible!
The story, on the other hand, is not. Well worth the watch though. (Did
anyone else want to strangle the Gunguns and those annoying things that took
over Naboo?)
Dave
Brian Watson
For me, there were only a two things that I really liked about the movie. The
incredible choreographed light saber duels, and the very subtle thing that was
shown at the end of the movie, concerning one person being moved into a certain
position, that most except the die hard fans wouldn't have recognized at the
first outset. I am not much of a fan of SW, and knew this person was important
for some reason but couldn't remember why. When the last scene was about to
fade out, it hit me. Ouch.
Tammy Smith
many others caught it?
Tammy
Brad Templeton
The funny thing is I think the hype scared away the lines, though it
may not last. I was driving through a smaller town yesterday, went
past the moviehouse and there was just a short line for their first
showing of the day (other than a midnight one) at 4pm. I went in and
sat in the sweet spot of the cinema, getting there just 45 minutes
before the film. It only filled about half the house, and the 7pm
show didn't sell out either.
--
Brad Templeton http://www.templetons.com/brad/
Ron Fuller
>No, figure I'll wait until the lines die down a bit.
>
>
> jms
>
Lines? What lines.
Joe, no joke the 9 AM showing at the La Jolla AMC theater ( it seats
450) fewer then 60 people there.
Star Wars is in such wide release that even opening day showings were
not all sold out.
Best Regards
Ron in San Diego
Diving in San Diego
http://www.diegoweb.com/diving
r...@diegoweb.com
Bren90046
I saw TPM yesterday (Wed.) at the Beverly Center. Its playing on their only
bigscreen.
No lines for the 2pm show! I was going to wait too... for lines to die down,
and was originally going to see "Tea w/Mussolini" .
But, you might want to wait anyway... I read in the LATimes that Lucas is
releasing a DIGITAL copy of TPM in June... to play in NY and LA only ol the new
Texas instument digital projectors only in a couple theaters.
I'll be seeing it again when that happens.
Warmest,
Bren
Lawrence King
"Re: ATTN JMS: Star Wars Movie (No Plot Spoilers)"
does have spoilers in it! looks like the moderators missed it.
I added a *SPOILERS* tag to this reply.
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Tammy Smith <gka...@webtv.net> wrote:
>> Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder
>> how many others caught it?
If you knew the name Palpatine already, it was pretty easy. The Senator
gave an evil smile for about 0.25 second at the end of one scene.
But only one person I've talked to figured it out -without- knowing the
name in advance.
I think Lucas made a real mistake here. It looks like he's setting up a
mystery that won't be revealed until movie 2. But by then, everyone will
have heard who the badguy is from the millions of information outlets.
| Larry King \\|// |
| univ of washington (@ @) |
|------------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-----|
| Babylon 5 History Page |
| http://www.math.washington.edu/~lking/b-five.html |
| B5 Chronology. Dreams, Prophecies, and Visions. Astronomy in B5. |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shredder
Brad Templeton <b...@templetons.com> wrote in message
news:7i1k1c$3...@chronicle.concentric.net...
>
> The funny thing is I think the hype scared away the lines, though it
> may not last .
I'll have to agree with this statement. I'm one of the original Star wars
fans, from long ago in 1982. Even though I was only 4 years old then, my
parents said I loved watching Empire Stirkes back. And it's still my
favorite to this day.
I was still a fan during the dark days of the later 80's , when Star Wars
wasn't considerd, "As Cool" as it was earlier. I was ecstatic when the
Trilogy was re released in the form of Special Edition, finally got to see
them on the big screen.
Back then, in 97, you'd see a blurb or too about it on the news. Now, in
1999, when the new movie comes out, you can't turn the channel without
seeing a blurb about it. The People w aiting in line for a month is
absolutly crazy. Although they did it for a worthy cause/charity, so it was
at least notable.
When I went to wait in line, all I had to do was wait for 4 hours, was
toward the end of the line at a THX Digital sound theater. Got tickets for
opening night. 8 PM showing. Line out the side of the theater for people
waiting at the 9 PM showing. People dressing up as Luke, and Darth Maul,
pretty damn good costumes too. But, the point of this letter(Yes, the point
:) ), is that an 8 PM Showing had about 15 seats left over.
This theater has Stadium Seating. I figured that the reason these seats
wheren't filled, was because you'd have permanent neck damage having to look
up at the screen for 2:10. But yet, we had a packed house :)
Doug Berry
rful...@san.rr.com (Ron Fuller) pass this message on to me:
>Lines? What lines.
>Joe, no joke the 9 AM showing at the La Jolla AMC theater ( it seats
>450) fewer then 60 people there.
>Star Wars is in such wide release that even opening day showings were
>not all sold out.
What's funny is that before the primeir, opening day tickets were
going for as much as $500 on eBay. This despite the fact that
many shows had ample seating avalible.
--
+-------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry dbe...@hooked.net |
| http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/ |
|-------------------------------------------|
| "Hear the voices in my head, swear to God |
| it sounds like they're snoring." |
| -Harvey Danger, "Flagpole Sitta" |
+-------------------------------------------+
James A. Wolf
>
>For me, there were only a two things that I really liked about the movie. The
>incredible choreographed light saber duels, and the very subtle thing that was
>shown at the end of the movie, concerning one person being moved into a certain
>position, that most except the die hard fans wouldn't have recognized at the
>first outset. I am not much of a fan of SW, and knew this person was important
>for some reason but couldn't remember why. When the last scene was about to
>fade out, it hit me. Ouch.
>
>
Spoiler Space
Many veiwers think the good guys won. B5 fanks know the bad guys won.
<*> James A. Wolf - jaw...@tiac.net - www.tiac.net/users/jawolf <*>
"The jawbone of an ass is | "You really shouldn't |"There is no law for those
just as dangerous a weapon | encourage my socio- |who make the laws and no
today as in Samson's time."| pathic tendencies." |law for the incorrigibly
Richard Nixon | Florence King |lawless." Terry Prachett
[PLEASE BUY 'THE ULTIMATE HULK' ANTHOLOGY, WITH MY FIRST PUBLISHED STORY!]
James A. Wolf
>In article <19990520030955...@ng-cd1.aol.com>,
>Jms at B5 <jms...@aol.com> wrote:
>>No, figure I'll wait until the lines die down a bit.
>>
>
>The funny thing is I think the hype scared away the lines, though it
>may not last. I was driving through a smaller town yesterday, went
>past the moviehouse and there was just a short line for their first
>showing of the day (other than a midnight one) at 4pm. I went in and
>sat in the sweet spot of the cinema, getting there just 45 minutes
>before the film. It only filled about half the house, and the 7pm
>show didn't sell out either.
>--
I bought my tickets for the midnight (Tues) showing that
afternoon, and I got the theater at 11:30. I even had time to get a
drink and popcorn, and even go to the bathroom, and I didn't miss a
prievew.
And the lines to get in were darn long!
Tammy Smith
you're not a "morning-person", though, Joe! :)
Tammy
Tammy Smith
I saw TPM at Regal Cinemas 18 in El Cajon.
Tammy
E. Mark Ping
Doug Berry <dbe...@hooked.net> wrote:
>On 20 May 1999 13:28:10 -0600, the Secret Masters made
>rful...@san.rr.com (Ron Fuller) pass this message on to me:
>
>
>>Lines? What lines.
>>Joe, no joke the 9 AM showing at the La Jolla AMC theater ( it seats
>>450) fewer then 60 people there.
>>Star Wars is in such wide release that even opening day showings were
>>not all sold out.
>
>What's funny is that before the primeir, opening day tickets were
>going for as much as $500 on eBay. This despite the fact that
>many shows had ample seating avalible.
Availability of seating is undoubtedly variable from region to region.
Here in the Silicon Valley, the theater closest to me house had lines a
week before opening, and the opening day tickets sold out *less than one
hour* after going on sale.
--
| "If hard data were the filtering criterion
Mark Ping | you could fit the entire contents of the
ema...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU | Internet on a floppy disk."
| - Cecil Adams, The Straight Dope Tells All
Podkayne Fries
Ping) wrote:
>
>Availability of seating is undoubtedly variable from region to region.
>Here in the Silicon Valley, the theater closest to me house had lines a
>week before opening, and the opening day tickets sold out *less than one
>hour* after going on sale.
Our local theatre didn't sell advance tickets. They've had empty seats
for every show. I've also noticed that local stores are putting STAR
WARS merchandise on the clearance racks because it isn't selling.
OTOH, a local nut^H^H^Hfan got her picture on the front page because she
named her daughter 'Cindel'.
--
Regards, Podkayne Fries
"Worst of all, even Star Trek: Voyager has characters that eclipse
anything in The Phantom Menace, and one cannot accuse that show of
having any plot to get in the way of the special effects."
Installment 22 of Hell^Òs Half-Acre Herald, http://www.hpoo.com/contest/index.html
Steve Brinich
> Spoiler Space
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> Many veiwers think the good guys won. B5 fanks know the bad guys won.
I've seen the suggestion that the meaning of the title "The Phantom
Menace" is to draw a contrast between the *phantom* menace of the
*obvious* villain and the *real* menace waiting in the wings....
--
Steve Brinich <ste...@Radix.Net> If the government wants us
http://www.Radix.Net/~steveb to respect the law
89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E it should set a better example
fcc...@my-dejanews.com
bev1...@ecn.ab.ca
: Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder how
: many others caught it?
: Tammy
It sure wasn't lost on me. Characters are being moved around like pieces
on a chess board. The NEXT film will have to be REALLY interesting.
Bev
James Bell
> BEWARE! The topic entitled
> "Re: ATTN JMS: Star Wars Movie (No Plot Spoilers)"
> does have spoilers in it! looks like the moderators missed it.
>
> I added a *SPOILERS* tag to this reply.
>
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> Tammy Smith <gka...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> >> Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder
> >> how many others caught it?
>
> If you knew the name Palpatine already, it was pretty easy. The Senator
> gave an evil smile for about 0.25 second at the end of one scene.
>
> But only one person I've talked to figured it out -without- knowing the
> name in advance.
>
> I think Lucas made a real mistake here. It looks like he's setting up a
> mystery that won't be revealed until movie 2. But by then, everyone will
> have heard who the badguy is from the millions of information outlets.
I hate to rain on everyone's parade who think they've figured something out.
It was painfully obvious throughout the entire movie that Senator Palpatine
was the "bad guy." When it became obvious to me that he was the "Emperor"
Palpatine:
'There's not much we can do so you probably should just sign the treaty and
we'll work it out later, after I overthrow the chancellor and take over the
Senate.'
The guy oozed power-hungry politician in every scene. I'm sorry if this
offends anyone but the close-up shot at the end was to finally clue in the
10-and-under crowd who were too busy laughing at Jar Jar's idiotic antics
during the film to figure out the only remotely complicated plot point.
Side note: Here's a list of things that annoyed me about the film (which I'd
give an 8/10, btw):
Jar Jar Binks.
"Yipee!"
The queen's lipstick.
The glowing Minbari fighting pike used by Darth Maul. It didn't really annoy
me but I can't help be left thinking, "who was that guy?" I guess his lack
of development annoys me.
Jim
Craig Powers
: BEWARE! The topic entitled
: "Re: ATTN JMS: Star Wars Movie (No Plot Spoilers)"
: does have spoilers in it! looks like the moderators missed it.
I do not believe the moderators have any obligation to provide spoiler
protection for anything other than B5 episodes/movies, and indeed that
protection only extends to /new/ B5 episodes/movies.
I agree with the spoiler protection though. My main comment follows the
recycled spoiler space:
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[snip]
:
: If you knew the name Palpatine already, it was pretty easy. The Senator
: gave an evil smile for about 0.25 second at the end of one scene.
:
: But only one person I've talked to figured it out -without- knowing the
: name in advance.
:
: I think Lucas made a real mistake here. It looks like he's setting up a
: mystery that won't be revealed until movie 2. But by then, everyone will
: have heard who the badguy is from the millions of information outlets.
There is more to connect Palpatine to Sidious, namely the voice, though
I knew going in that they were one and the same and was looking for
similarity. Taking a larger view, like jms has commented, if you set
something up properly, there will always be a few people who "get it"
before you reveal it.
I don't think, though, that this information is destined to be revealed
to the population at large. Certainly, SW casts a wider net than, say,
B5, but on the other hand, mass media outlets are no more likely to
spill this particular plot point (I don't think) than they would be to
spill a similar plot point about B5 (if there was one), which is not
likely. Hence, the only people who are liable to be accidentally
exposed are online. Judging by the B5 online community vs. real
community, that's a pretty small percentage.
--
Craig Powers NU ChE class of '98
cpo...@lynx.dac.neu.edu http://lynx.neu.edu/home/httpd/c/cpowers
eni...@hal-pc.org http://www.hal-pc.org/~enigma
"Good..bad....I'm the guy with the gun." -- "Ash" in *Army of Darkness*
Craig Powers
SPOILER SPACE
: Tammy Smith (gka...@webtv.net) wrote:
: : Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder how
: : many others caught it?
:
: It sure wasn't lost on me. Characters are being moved around like pieces
: on a chess board. The NEXT film will have to be REALLY interesting.
Are we talking about Palpatine's "I will follow your career with great
interest" here, or something else that was interesting in that scene?
Craig Powers
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: I hate to rain on everyone's parade who think they've figured something out.
: It was painfully obvious throughout the entire movie that Senator Palpatine
: was the "bad guy." When it became obvious to me that he was the "Emperor"
: Palpatine:
Well, I knew beforehand, but I'm pretty sure that came from reading one
of the novelizations or something, because I'm sure they never gave his
last name onscreen as emperor. Honestly, though, I do think you had to
work this out by lining up Sidious with Palpatine, because I don't think
it was obvious that he wasn't trying to do all of this to get out of the
Trade Federation jam.
: 'There's not much we can do so you probably should just sign the treaty and
: we'll work it out later, after I overthrow the chancellor and take over the
: Senate.'
:
: The guy oozed power-hungry politician in every scene. I'm sorry if this
: offends anyone but the close-up shot at the end was to finally clue in the
: 10-and-under crowd who were too busy laughing at Jar Jar's idiotic antics
: during the film to figure out the only remotely complicated plot point.
:
: Side note: Here's a list of things that annoyed me about the film (which I'd
: give an 8/10, btw):
:
: Jar Jar Binks.
:
: "Yipee!"
:
: The queen's lipstick.
:
: The glowing Minbari fighting pike used by Darth Maul. It didn't really annoy
: me but I can't help be left thinking, "who was that guy?" I guess his lack
: of development annoys me.
I liked it too, but if that's all that annoyed you, you can't have been
trying that hard. What's not to be annoyed with when Annikin blows up
the droid control ship? That annoyed me to no end - there just had to
have been a better way to do it. Though it's a major plot point, at
least it isn't a strain to figure that they would have done it somehow,
even if not quite like that. And I found 3PO completely unnecessary to
the point of straining credibility, but fortunately that means he can
just be ignored, as he didn't really accomplish anything either.
Unlike you and some other people (in other fora, I believe), I thought
Maul was played perfectly. I read him as just a Jedi killing machine,
nothing more and nothing less. I can't see much to do with him that
wouldn't have been out-of-character.
Joe Schulte
: bev1...@ecn.ab.ca () spake thusly:
: SPOILER SPACE
: : Tammy Smith (gka...@webtv.net) wrote:
: : : Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder how
: : : many others caught it?
: :
: : It sure wasn't lost on me. Characters are being moved around like pieces
: : on a chess board. The NEXT film will have to be REALLY interesting.
: Are we talking about Palpatine's "I will follow your career with great
: interest" here, or something else that was interesting in that scene?
I believe it was the scene between Yoda and SLJ where it is asked, "But
did we kill the master or the apprentice?". Then the camera stops panning
on a certain person in answer to the question.
Joe Schulte
Not really a spoiler here.
: The glowing Minbari fighting pike used by Darth Maul. It didn't really annoy
: me but I can't help be left thinking, "who was that guy?" I guess his lack
: of development annoys me.
Development? Why? The guy is nothing more than a trained pitbull.
That was the point as far as I was concerned. Anything else would be a
waste of screen time.
Kinda like Fett - we didn't need to know more about him, either....
Tammy Smith
That's what I caught, Joe--Yoda talks about the master & the apprentice,
& then, we see Palpatine.
As for Darth Maul, yes, he wasn't much of a character, but he looked
interesting!
Tammy
fcc...@my-dejanews.com
<Pine.OSF.4.02A.99052...@goedel3.math.washington.edu>,
Lawrence King <lk...@math.washington.edu> wrote:
> I think Lucas made a real mistake here. It looks like he's setting up
> a mystery that won't be revealed until movie 2. But by then, everyone
> will have heard who the badguy is from the millions of information
> outlets.
(Something seems to have messed up my previous post: I guess it was
spoiled by the spoiler space. <G>)
I think he wanted people to figure it out, given certain scenes in the
movie and the way he put the (second) trailer together.
Francis
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
James Dusek
gka...@webtv.net says...
> I just saw TPM today, & I can see why you feared putting a B5 movie up
> against it--the effects are incredible!
Yes the effects were incredible, how about the rest of the movie?
I wasn't very pleased with it.
1.) To much catering to the kids.
2.) It was a big add to sell toys.
The Jedi fight in the end was cool, but that pretty much sums up
the movie. It was created to sell toys.
James Dusek
Western Environmental Law Center
But why shouldn't they make it easily accessible to the kiddies? I first saw
Star Wars: A New Hope at age 5 and was awestruck. Children are much more
open and receptive to the magic than we jaded grown ups - I'm glad that the
under 12 audience was not forgotten.
My impressions: enjoyed it a great deal in spite of some flaws and some
surprising (and somewhat disturbing) ethnic stereotyping. (Anyone else
notice that or am I just being paranoid?) But overall, very enjoyable. And
delightful to hear the kids in the audience giggling and catching their
collective breath during the space battles and light saber duels.
Looking forward to seeing Annakin's descent into darkness, the demise of the
Jedi and the transformation of Palpatine from Senator to Emperor...with a
mixture of anticipation and dread! :)
Just my humble opinion...
Leigh
James Dusek wrote in message ...
Craig Powers
: : SPOILER SPACE
Oh, yes, now that you mention it, I certainly did catch the drift there.
Of course, I knew going into the movie that Palpatine was the future
emperor. I think the way it was played was really quite excellent,
providing both a subtle tip-off to anyone who hadn't figured it out yet,
and also a bit of irony (I think that's the right term for this, right?)
for those who were in the know.
I should also think that if Yoda and Windu were thinking clearly about
this, they would expect to have killed the apprentice. If I were in
their position and put the effort into thinking it through, that would
be my conclusion, esp. since it presents a greater threat than would
having killed the master.
Brian Watson
> SOME SPOILERS...
>
>
> But why shouldn't they make it easily accessible to the kiddies? I first saw
> Star Wars: A New Hope at age 5 and was awestruck. Children are much more
> open and receptive to the magic than we jaded grown ups - I'm glad that the
> under 12 audience was not forgotten.
But he made it almost ONLY for children. Jar Jar was in EVERY scene, nearly at
the center of attention every time. His ridiculous speech patterns were
annoying to no end, and in a way very disturbing.
> My impressions: enjoyed it a great deal in spite of some flaws and some
> surprising (and somewhat disturbing) ethnic stereotyping. (Anyone else
> notice that or am I just being paranoid?)
What? The bad Jamacin (sp?) accent on Jar Jar and the rest of the floppy eared
CGI generated monstrosities, or the bad Chinese accents on the poorly designed
and ridiculous looking Trade Federation aliens? You need to be specific.
> But overall, very enjoyable. And
> delightful to hear the kids in the audience giggling and catching their
> collective breath during the space battles and light saber duels.
NOT enjoyable. Downright boring. The 'climactic' Pod Race and space battle
were DULL DULL DULL, and quite stupid with Anakin yelling WHOOPIE in the middle
of a dogfight. The way he 'stumbled' upon destroying the space station (like
father like son?) was just inane, as well as the way Jar Jar stumbled through
the battle on Naboo ala Buster Keaton, wiping out the droids left and right.
> Looking forward to seeing Annakin's descent into darkness, the demise of the
> Jedi and the transformation of Palpatine from Senator to Emperor...with a
> mixture of anticipation and dread! :)
I look forward to the rise of the Empire and decline of Anakin's sanity. I
particularly DON'T look forward to the fact that it is HEAVILY rumored (with
some substantial evidence) that Leonardo Dicaprio may play the late teenage
Anakin in the next one. I'll never see the movie if it has him in it.
Tom Maddox
>Craig Powers (eni...@hal-pc.org) wrote:
>: bev1...@ecn.ab.ca () spake thusly:
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>: : Tammy Smith (gka...@webtv.net) wrote:
>: : : Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder how
>: : : many others caught it?
>: :
>: : It sure wasn't lost on me. Characters are being moved around like pieces
>: : on a chess board. The NEXT film will have to be REALLY interesting.
>
>: Are we talking about Palpatine's "I will follow your career with great
>: interest" here, or something else that was interesting in that scene?
>
>I believe it was the scene between Yoda and SLJ where it is asked, "But
>did we kill the master or the apprentice?". Then the camera stops panning
>on a certain person in answer to the question.
See, I don't understand the great importance of this scene. If you've watched
the original trilogy, you know that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. It's not
really any sort of revelation that Senator Palpatine becomes Emperor
Palpatine, unless one believes that Palpatine is just an incredibly common
name in the Star Wars universe.
"Those you cannot teach to fly, teach to fall faster." -- Nietzsche
<mailto:tma...@dnai.com> | I'd use a spam trap, but I have enough.
Tammy Smith
I didn't mind the pod-race. In fact, I found it exciting. But I *do
not* want Leonardo Di Caprio to play Anakin! That would be a huge
mistake!
Tammy
Scott Johnson
: SPOILERS
I think you guys are being too hard on him. In spite of his association
as a teenage heartthrob, he is quite a good actor, and might very well
make an excellent teenage Anakin.
--
Scott Johnson sco...@eecs.umich.edu
Dept. of EECS, Univ. of Michigan http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~scottdj
(734) 763-5363
Finger for PGP public key.
Richard Manny
saw
>Star Wars: A New Hope at age 5 and was awestruck. Children are much more
>open and receptive to the magic than we jaded grown ups - I'm glad that the
>under 12 audience was not forgotten.
>
came out. Other than the first movie, I enjoyed them, but had mixed
emotions on some parts or some characters. Star Wars is, after all, a
movie. An immensely fun movie, but a movie nonetheless. I believe that
memory and the wonderful things that a mind does to its memories has
resulted in people forgetting feelings or thoughts like, "I think that the
Ewoks are stupid" or "Can you believe what a downer Empire Strikes Back
was?" I got a heck of a kick out of The Phantom Menace and so did my 4 year
old daughter. Was it a perfect movie? No. But was it fun? Yes. Is there
greater depth to it for some viewers (i.e.., myth)? Sure.
I celebrate all good speculative fiction. That's why I frequent this forum.
That's why I read Ellison, Twain, Melville, Simmons and many others. That's
why I read good mainstream fiction and classical works. That's why I
enjoyed The Mummy and The Matrix equally. Good fiction works.
Richard
s
Tom Maddox
>Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
>
>> SOME SPOILERS...
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Star Wars: A New Hope at age 5 and was awestruck. Children are much more
>> open and receptive to the magic than we jaded grown ups - I'm glad that the
>> under 12 audience was not forgotten.
>
>the center of attention every time. His ridiculous speech patterns were
>annoying to no end, and in a way very disturbing.
>
>> My impressions: enjoyed it a great deal in spite of some flaws and some
>> surprising (and somewhat disturbing) ethnic stereotyping. (Anyone else
>> notice that or am I just being paranoid?)
>
>What? The bad Jamacin (sp?) accent on Jar Jar and the rest of the floppy eared
>CGI generated monstrosities, or the bad Chinese accents on the poorly designed
>and ridiculous looking Trade Federation aliens? You need to be specific.
Actually, the Trade Federation guys sounded more like they were supposed to be
vaguely Italian to me. And I believe they were ridiculous-looking and
-sounding on purpose, the intent being to imply that these guys weren't the
real threat (hence, "The Phantom Menace").
>> But overall, very enjoyable. And
>> delightful to hear the kids in the audience giggling and catching their
>> collective breath during the space battles and light saber duels.
>
>NOT enjoyable. Downright boring. The 'climactic' Pod Race and space battle
>were DULL DULL DULL, and quite stupid with Anakin yelling WHOOPIE in the middle
>of a dogfight. The way he 'stumbled' upon destroying the space station (like
>father like son?) was just inane, as well as the way Jar Jar stumbled through
>the battle on Naboo ala Buster Keaton, wiping out the droids left and right.
You have seen the other movies, right? You do know what The Force is? The
point of both those scenes is that The Force was with each character, allowing
them to succeed in ways that would otherwise be impossible, or at least highly
improbable. Much as a despise Jar Jar, I thought that scene made perfect
sense. I thought the Pod Race was pretty intense, myself, and the space
battle didn't suck.
YMMV, of course.
>> Looking forward to seeing Annakin's descent into darkness, the demise of the
>> Jedi and the transformation of Palpatine from Senator to Emperor...with a
>> mixture of anticipation and dread! :)
>
>I look forward to the rise of the Empire and decline of Anakin's sanity. I
>particularly DON'T look forward to the fact that it is HEAVILY rumored (with
>some substantial evidence) that Leonardo Dicaprio may play the late teenage
>Anakin in the next one. I'll never see the movie if it has him in it.
Yeah, and that "What's Eating Gilbert Grape?" movie really sucked, too.
Believe it or not, ol' Leo actually is quite a good actor, which you can only
appreciate if you've seen him in something besides "Titanic."
James A. Wolf
>In article <374A22DB...@cris.com>, Brian Watson <ke...@cris.com> wrote:
>>Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
>>
>>> SOME SPOILERS...
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>What? The bad Jamacin (sp?) accent on Jar Jar and the rest of the floppy eared
>>CGI generated monstrosities, or the bad Chinese accents on the poorly designed
>>and ridiculous looking Trade Federation aliens? You need to be specific.
>
>Actually, the Trade Federation guys sounded more like they were supposed to be
>vaguely Italian to me.
Everyone thinks I'm crazy because I said those guys sounded French.
<*> James A. Wolf - jaw...@tiac.net - www.tiac.net/users/jawolf <*>
"The jawbone of an ass is just |"How can we explain adolescent behavior in
as dangerous a weapon today as |adolescents, when we can't explain adolescent
in Samson's time." Richard Nixon |behavior in our President?" Rush Limbaugh
UnltdLife
>memory and the wonderful things that a mind does to its memories has
>resulted in people forgetting feelings or thoughts like, "I think that the
>Ewoks are stupid" or "Can you believe what a downer Empire Strikes Back
>was?"
It's funny you bring that up about "Empire". I think I was nine or ten when I
saw it the first time -- and was horrified by the way it ended! Of course, I
love the movie. But for a ten year old to accept Darth Vader as Luke's dad --
unthinkable. (I figured Vader was lying.) And the cliff hanger ending? Ouch.
The adults "got it" ut I'm not sure most of the kids didn't. My sister-in-law
had the same reaction when she first saw it.
Now, the Phantom Menace is going to be a movie that grows on people, gradually.
I think it will eventually achieve it's rightful place in the Star Wars
mythos.
Kind of like B5's Fifth Season -- it's actually better the second time around.
Jason
James Dusek
> In article <374A22DB...@cris.com>, Brian Watson <ke...@cris.com> wrote:
> >Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
> >> Star Wars: A New Hope at age 5 and was awestruck. Children are much more
> >> open and receptive to the magic than we jaded grown ups - I'm glad that the
> >> under 12 audience was not forgotten.
> >But he made it almost ONLY for children. Jar Jar was in EVERY scene, nearly at
> >the center of attention every time. His ridiculous speech patterns were
> >annoying to no end, and in a way very disturbing.
I agree with this, also their 70ish funky disco walk made me want
to puke. To me it all said "BUY MORE TOYS KIDDIES." This movie made JMS's
choice to keep control over licensing more undestandable. This movie was
ruined by the fact it was primarily made to get kids to buy toys. Hell,
the toys even came out BEFORE the movie was released.
> >I look forward to the rise of the Empire and decline of Anakin's sanity. I
> >particularly DON'T look forward to the fact that it is HEAVILY rumored (with
> >some substantial evidence) that Leonardo Dicaprio may play the late teenage
> >Anakin in the next one. I'll never see the movie if it has him in it.
> Yeah, and that "What's Eating Gilbert Grape?" movie really sucked, too.
> Believe it or not, ol' Leo actually is quite a good actor, which you can only
> appreciate if you've seen him in something besides "Titanic."
IF Leo is the next Anakin Skywalker, I'll wait until the movie
hits DVD before seeing it. I saw his performance in the Man in the Iron
Mask. He failed utterly as the good twin, although he did a damn good job
as the evil twin.
James Dusek
Joe Schulte
: In article <7ibrpj$1f9$1...@earth.execpc.com>, moon...@execpc.com (Joe Schulte) wrote:
: >Craig Powers (eni...@hal-pc.org) wrote:
: >: bev1...@ecn.ab.ca () spake thusly:
: >
: >: SPOILER SPACE
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >: : Tammy Smith (gka...@webtv.net) wrote:
: >: : : Brian, I caught that thing at the end of the movie, too. Wonder how
: >: : : many others caught it?
: >: :
: >: : It sure wasn't lost on me. Characters are being moved around like pieces
: >: : on a chess board. The NEXT film will have to be REALLY interesting.
: >
: >: Are we talking about Palpatine's "I will follow your career with great
: >: interest" here, or something else that was interesting in that scene?
: >
: >I believe it was the scene between Yoda and SLJ where it is asked, "But
: >did we kill the master or the apprentice?". Then the camera stops panning
: >on a certain person in answer to the question.
: See, I don't understand the great importance of this scene. If you've watched
: the original trilogy, you know that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. It's not
: really any sort of revelation that Senator Palpatine becomes Emperor
: Palpatine, unless one believes that Palpatine is just an incredibly common
: name in the Star Wars universe.
Umm...no.
If you've played "Trivial Pursuit" the "Young Player's" edition you know
who Palpatine is. If you've read Return of the Jedi (and possibly Empire
Strikes Back but I can't remember) you know who Palpatine is. If you read
some of the RPG books you know who Palpatine is.
>From watching the original trilogy you do NOT know what importance
whatsoever the name "Palpatine" has.
Joe Schulte
: Tammy Smith (gka...@webtv.net) wrote:
: : SPOILERS
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :
: : I didn't mind the pod-race. In fact, I found it exciting. But I *do
: : not* want Leonardo Di Caprio to play Anakin! That would be a huge
: : mistake!
: :
: : Tammy
: I think you guys are being too hard on him. In spite of his association
: as a teenage heartthrob, he is quite a good actor, and might very well
: make an excellent teenage Anakin.
Sure he is.
I still don't want to see him in a Star Wars movie. The same reason that I
really wish Samuel L. Jackson (much as I love him as an actor) hadn't been
in it.
Established faces shouldn't be in a Star Wars film.
(Yes, you can claim that people such as Liam and Ewan are already
established - and they are, but not to a typical American audience)
Paul Rubin
>I still don't want to see him [Leonardo DiCaprio] in a Star Wars
>movie. The same reason that I really wish Samuel L. Jackson (much as
>I love him as an actor) hadn't been in it.
>
>Established faces shouldn't be in a Star Wars film.
>
>(Yes, you can claim that people such as Liam and Ewan are already
>established - and they are, but not to a typical American audience)
And Alec Guinness, nobody in the US had ever heard of him, of course.
Anything you say. :)
Joe Schulte
: tma...@dnai.com (Tom Maddox) wrote:
: >In article <374A22DB...@cris.com>, Brian Watson <ke...@cris.com> wrote:
: >>Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
: >>
: >>> SOME SPOILERS...
: >>>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>>
: >>
: >>What? The bad Jamacin (sp?) accent on Jar Jar and the rest of the floppy eared
: >>CGI generated monstrosities, or the bad Chinese accents on the poorly designed
: >>and ridiculous looking Trade Federation aliens? You need to be specific.
: >
: >Actually, the Trade Federation guys sounded more like they were supposed to be
: >vaguely Italian to me.
: Everyone thinks I'm crazy because I said those guys sounded French.
Yes...it's such an insultingly stereotyped that everyone thinks it's a
different accent.
Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
Aaron P. Brezenski
Joe Schulte <moon...@execpc.com> wrote:
>: >
>: >: SPOILER SPACE
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>Umm...no.
>
>If you've played "Trivial Pursuit" the "Young Player's" edition you know
>who Palpatine is. If you've read Return of the Jedi (and possibly Empire
>Strikes Back but I can't remember) you know who Palpatine is. If you read
>some of the RPG books you know who Palpatine is.
>
>>From watching the original trilogy you do NOT know what importance
>whatsoever the name "Palpatine" has.
Of course, seeing "Ian McDiarmid" listed in the credits under both roles
could cause someone to ask questions. Or even recognizing the voice.
Actually, though, I think McDiarmid was listed in the RotJ credits as
"Emperor Palpatine". That's how it's always been listed on the IMDB (though
I recognize that the IMDB is far from a reliable source...).
Aaron Brezenski
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get me."
Card-Carrying Member of the Illuminati
Peter Walker
<jaw...@tiac.net> wrote:
>tma...@dnai.com (Tom Maddox) wrote:
>
>>In article <374A22DB...@cris.com>, Brian Watson <ke...@cris.com> wrote:
>>>Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
>>>
>>>> SOME SPOILERS...
>>>What? [...] or the bad Chinese accents on the
>>>and ridiculous looking Trade Federation aliens? You need to be specific.
>>
>>Actually, the Trade Federation guys sounded more like they were supposed to
>>be vaguely Italian to me.
>
>Everyone thinks I'm crazy because I said those guys sounded French.
I tend to agree with the Chinese assertion - with this caveat: they
didn't sound like real Chinese, but more like whoever dubs those
wonderfully awful Hong Kong martial arts films.
Turnabout's fair play, I suppose. About 15 years ago I saw a Chinese
martial arts movie on TV one afternoon, and the film was using the Star
Wars score - all but the main title. The Jedi theme was invoked when
the martial artist was being trained by his master, and the Cantina
band played in a Chinese tavern. *Very* funny...
--
Peter Wykoff Walker II | EMAIL: p...@spacsun.rice.edu
Rice University | WWW: http://spac-201.rice.edu/
Dept. of Space Physics & Astronomy | alt.atheist #3 (Oldtimer Division)
--------- QUI NOS RODUNT CONFUNDANTUR ET COM IUSTIS NON SCRIBANTUR ---------
Brian Watson
> In article <374A22DB...@cris.com>, Brian Watson <ke...@cris.com> wrote:
> >Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
> >
> >> SOME SPOILERS...
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> But overall, very enjoyable. And
> >> delightful to hear the kids in the audience giggling and catching their
> >> collective breath during the space battles and light saber duels.
> >
> >NOT enjoyable. Downright boring. The 'climactic' Pod Race and space battle
> >were DULL DULL DULL, and quite stupid with Anakin yelling WHOOPIE in the middle
> >of a dogfight. The way he 'stumbled' upon destroying the space station (like
> >father like son?) was just inane, as well as the way Jar Jar stumbled through
> >the battle on Naboo ala Buster Keaton, wiping out the droids left and right.
>
> You have seen the other movies, right? You do know what The Force is? The
> point of both those scenes is that The Force was with each character, allowing
> them to succeed in ways that would otherwise be impossible, or at least highly
> improbable.
Oh yes. The Force. The pathetic 'imaculate conception of Anakin' story line made
me want to get up and leave the theatre right that moment. (And I would have if I
hadn't known there would be a lightsaber duel later) Jesus. As if he couldn't get
any more ridiculous. And then, to demystify the Force, GL decides to make the Force
a bunch of single celled organisms living in people's blood. And yet, he insists
they have a grander ability to be able to actually spontaneously generate a human
being. Bad bad bad bad bad storywriting.
> Much as a despise Jar Jar, I thought that scene made perfect
> sense. I thought the Pod Race was pretty intense, myself, and the space
> battle didn't suck.
Since WHEN does Jar Jar have any amount of Force? He's just a bumbling baffoon,
meant to amuse kiddies. You read too much into his actions, giving them a grander
purpose. He's not a future Jedi, and only hopefully future bantha fodder. The Pod
Race was derivitive, just a copy of the first movie's trench scene. And did no one
else notice that the 40,000 spectators, nor Anakin, Obi Wan or Qui Jong (who all
Jedi can supposedly 'see the future before it happens') bothered to see their arch
enemy stroll over to their Pod Racer while whistling inconspicuously and snap off a
piece of the Pod's engine? PUUUULLLEEEAAASSSEEEE. The space battle was just
downright stupid, with Anakin accidentally stumbling upon the power source to
destroy it with a ridiculously lucky shot. (*insert Beavis and Butthead laugh*
Like father like son, I suppose, George) Believe it or not, GL out did himself from
the stupidity of a Rebel Alliance letting a complete unknown pilot one of the few
starfighters they have against THE greatest threat they have ever known, and then
let him succeed.
> >> Looking forward to seeing Annakin's descent into darkness, the demise of the
> >> Jedi and the transformation of Palpatine from Senator to Emperor...with a
> >> mixture of anticipation and dread! :)
> >
> >I look forward to the rise of the Empire and decline of Anakin's sanity. I
> >particularly DON'T look forward to the fact that it is HEAVILY rumored (with
> >some substantial evidence) that Leonardo Dicaprio may play the late teenage
> >Anakin in the next one. I'll never see the movie if it has him in it.
>
> Yeah, and that "What's Eating Gilbert Grape?" movie really sucked, too.
> Believe it or not, ol' Leo actually is quite a good actor, which you can only
> appreciate if you've seen him in something besides "Titanic."
He's a twit, and an over rated actor. And I applauded the booing of his next movie
in the previews before SW:TPM. After all, destroying the ecological purity and
beauty of an island for a movie in which we get to see America's heart throb take
off his shirt is certainly worth it.
Jim Batka
Western Environmental Law Center wrote:
<deletia>
> My impressions: enjoyed it a great deal in spite of some flaws and some
> surprising (and somewhat disturbing) ethnic stereotyping. (Anyone else
> notice that or am I just being paranoid?)
I detected it too and was surprised. I'll be even more surprised if we
don't start hearing more about it in the news media.
Be seeing you,
--
Jim Batka
Jim Batka
> James Bell <jam...@naxs.com> spake thusly:
> : I hate to rain on everyone's parade who think they've figured something out.
> : It was painfully obvious throughout the entire movie that Senator Palpatine
> : was the "bad guy." When it became obvious to me that he was the "Emperor"
> : Palpatine:
>
> Well, I knew beforehand, but I'm pretty sure that came from reading one
> of the novelizations or something, because I'm sure they never gave his
> last name onscreen as emperor. Honestly, though, I do think you had to
> work this out by lining up Sidious with Palpatine, because I don't think
> it was obvious that he wasn't trying to do all of this to get out of the
> Trade Federation jam.
I read this completely differently. The Trade Federation attack on
Daboo, was orchestrated solely to put the Senate into crisis. Since
the original Chancellor was effectively hamstrung and unable to
correct the situation, it presented an opportunity for Palpatine to
move in. As he stated in the movie, the fact that the Trade Federation
was attacking Naboo would provide a sympathetic reaction which
would help his position.
The entire episode was orchestrated by Palpatine to get himself
elected as Chancellor. The fact that the secondary objective of
getting Naboo to sign some treaty or other and that the Trade
Federation itself was critically wounded mattered very little to
Palpatine. He basically achieved all of his objectives, even if all
of the details didn't work out quite to his liking.
Of course it appears that the "Bad Guys" (tm) lost, in reality the
Bad Guy got what he wanted. The good guys won a tactical
victory, but the bad guy won the strategic victory.
Western Environmental Law Center
>Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
My thoughts exactly. They sounded Asian to me...and Jar Jar's people sounded
(and behaved) in (what I thought) was a derogatory stereotype of people of
African descent and Jamaicans in particular. I left the theatre dumbfounded
that no one on Lucas' PR team would have picked up on these potentially VERY
insulting characterizations before the movie's release.
I think (and certainly hope) that the makers of this film were not
intentionally perpetuating racist stereotypes. Still, it boggles my mind
that they weren't aware. It was pretty blatant, IMHO.
Leigh
Daryl Nash
Mmm. I saw Empire when I was, um, God has it been that long ago, 7 years old. I
thought it was spooky and exciting then, and I feel pretty much the same now
(except that now I'm rather impressed by the Eastern wisdom of Yoda, which I
somehow missed at seven). So, as a kid, I think I "got it".
Phantom Menace is not as good--it's a little plot-heavy for a Star Wars movie, and
the acting's a little leaden. But it was a very good movie. Fans will continue to
grouse about it just like they still do about Jedi, but it's definitely a worthy
addition to the original trilogy.
As for fifth season B5, I somehow doubt it will improve with age. But I haven't
yet had the stomach to re-watch the whole thing. It was much more lacking than The
Phantom Menace.
Daryl
Daryl Nash
> Tom Maddox wrote:
>
> > >> SOME SPOILERS...
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > You have seen the other movies, right? You do know what The Force is? The
> > point of both those scenes is that The Force was with each character, allowing
> > them to succeed in ways that would otherwise be impossible, or at least highly
> > improbable.
>
> Oh yes. The Force. The pathetic 'imaculate conception of Anakin' story line made
> me want to get up and leave the theatre right that moment. (And I would have if I
> hadn't known there would be a lightsaber duel later) Jesus. As if he couldn't get
> any more ridiculous. And then, to demystify the Force, GL decides to make the Force
> a bunch of single celled organisms living in people's blood. And yet, he insists
> they have a grander ability to be able to actually spontaneously generate a human
> being. Bad bad bad bad bad storywriting.
>
Umm. Did you like the original trilogy? Remember Han Solo made the Kessel Run in 4 (or
somesuch) PARSECS? Remember the melodramatic acting? Remember the deus ex machina of
Obi Wan telling Luke to "use his feelings" in order to destroy the Death Star? The
carbon copy plot of RotJ from SW:ANH? The laughable temptation of Luke by the Emperor
in Jedi? The annoying "yub-yub"ing of the Ewoks?
Wasn't it fun, though? Silly mistakes and melodrama and all?
If you didn't like the old trilogy, why waste your time with the new one? You can be
fairly certain that the new movies will be similar...
If you did like the original trilogy, then I can only surmise that somewhere along the
line you lost your childlike ability to have fun with a movie and replaced it with the
cynical need to find the flaws in everything.
Me, I try to balance my cynicism with the innocent optimism of a child--and let me tell
you, the seven-year-old in me thought the Phantom Menace was a damn good movie.
Daryl
Nitflegal
>: >did we kill the master or the apprentice?". Then the camera stops panning
>: >on a certain person in answer to the question.
>
>: See, I don't understand the great importance of this scene. If you've
>watched
>: the original trilogy, you know that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. It's
>not
>: really any sort of revelation that Senator Palpatine becomes Emperor
>: Palpatine, unless one believes that Palpatine is just an incredibly common
>: name in the Star Wars universe.
>
See, I don't think that was so much a tip that Senator Palpatine became Emperor
Palpatine. Most fans already know this. What it does is it tells you, if you
hadn't caught on, who Darth Sidious is. Without recognizing the voice or lower
face, many might not know that Seator Palpatine and Sidious are one and the
same.
That's what I think the scene was for.
Nitflegal
I think that people might be reading way to much here. In some ways, I think
that Lucas is geared towards children more than adults. And American children
at that. For instance, the Imperials are played by people with English accents.
Probably because that sound formal to us in the US, whereas America accents
sound cowboyish and "free" which fits rebels well, while an English accent
might trigger the mental baggage of order and regimentation in a US audience.
Lucas gives different character groups separate accents to aurally
differentiate them from each other, probably so kids can keep up. For the trade
fedaration, he needs something exotic. European languages are not exotic to
American ears, in fact, when we think of exotic cultures, we think of the
mysterious East. Giving these exotic aliens an orietal accent is a natural.
For Watto, again a non-western accent is needed. Many African accents can be
difficult to understand, so that leaves Innuit and Russia/Eastern Europe,
which have the added advatage of souding harsh and slightly oily to a west
brought up during the cold war.
Jamaican is a musical language, and children seem to respond best to toal
languages. Give it to the new heros, and children may respond better.
Again, I don't think that Lucas is being racist, rather he is aiming for
simplistic reactions. Besides, this is leaps and bounds above the original star
wars, where all of the combatats were white males ('cept for the plucky
princess) and blacks and asians may as well have not even existed. Heck,
through the first trilogy, the only non-European who even rates a name is
Lando.
James A. Wolf
>
>I think that people might be reading way to much here. In some ways, I think
>that Lucas is geared towards children more than adults. And American children
>at that. For instance, the Imperials are played by people with English accents.
>Probably because that sound formal to us in the US, whereas America accents
>sound cowboyish and "free" which fits rebels well, while an English accent
>might trigger the mental baggage of order and regimentation in a US audience.
>
I take it you've never watched Sparticus then? :->
But seriously, notice how the two Jedis had British accents in this
story?
Chris Harvey
> Of course, seeing "Ian McDiarmid" listed in the credits under both roles
> could cause someone to ask questions. Or even recognizing the voice.
> Actually, though, I think McDiarmid was listed in the RotJ credits as
> "Emperor Palpatine". That's how it's always been listed on the IMDB (though
> I recognize that the IMDB is far from a reliable source...).
I'll have to pay attention when I see it again, but I don't
think Darth Sideous is listed in the credits.
Chris Harvey
chha...@home.com
E. Mark Ping
>Tom Maddox wrote:
>
>> In article <374A22DB...@cris.com>, Brian Watson <ke...@cris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>Oh yes. The Force. The pathetic 'imaculate conception of Anakin'
>story line made me want to get up and leave the theatre right that
>moment. (And I would have if I hadn't known there would be a lightsaber
>duel later) Jesus. As if he couldn't get any more ridiculous. And
>then, to demystify the Force, GL decides to make the Force a bunch of
>single celled organisms living in people's blood. And yet, he insists
>they have a grander ability to be able to actually spontaneously
>generate a human being. Bad bad bad bad bad storywriting.
Perhaps you need to see the movie again. I believe the organisms were
*not* the embodiment of the force, but rather the catalyst between it
and the lifeform (such as the Jedi) trying to access the force.
>
>> Much as a despise Jar Jar, I thought that scene made perfect sense.
>> I thought the Pod Race was pretty intense, myself, and the space
>> battle didn't suck.
>
>Since WHEN does Jar Jar have any amount of Force? He's just a bumbling
Um, I don't think anyone has "any amount" of Force. That's like someone
saying "I *have* the Internet." Sigh. And what inside information do
you have that says that J-J wasn't sensitive to the Force?
>baffoon, meant to amuse kiddies. You read too much into his actions,
>giving them a grander purpose. He's not a future Jedi, and only
>hopefully future bantha fodder. The Pod Race was derivitive, just a
>copy of the first movie's trench scene.
Ah. Like the battle on Hoth was derivative. And the speeders in the
forest of Endor. All just a bunch of fast vehicles flying low to the
ground.
> The space battle was just downright stupid,
>with Anakin accidentally stumbling upon the power source to destroy it
>with a ridiculously lucky shot.
Or maybe that's how strong the Force was with Anakin. Just trying to do
the right thing he manages to take out the bad guys unintentionally.
Perhaps we're seeing a glimpse of what Anakin will be like as a Jedi.
--
| "If hard data were the filtering criterion
Mark Ping | you could fit the entire contents of the
ema...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU | Internet on a floppy disk."
| - Cecil Adams, The Straight Dope Tells All
Chris Harvey
>
>
> >Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
>
> My thoughts exactly. They sounded Asian to me...and Jar Jar's people sounded
> (and behaved) in (what I thought) was a derogatory stereotype of people of
> African descent and Jamaicans in particular. I left the theatre dumbfounded
> that no one on Lucas' PR team would have picked up on these potentially VERY
> insulting characterizations before the movie's release.
Maybe I don't get it, but why do you think that the
depiction of the Gungans was in any way derogatory towards
*any* people? I found them heroic and noble -- certainly Jar
Jar's faults (being clumsy) don't apply to the rest of
them....
I did think of old Flash Gordon serials when I heard the
Trade Federation folk talk, but don't think Lucas was trying
to perpetuate a stereotype. Of all American filmmakers, I
think he's one that is heavily influenced by Asian art,
theater, and cinema (an influence he himself has mentioned
several times).
Chris Harvey
chha...@home.com
Craig Powers
: Craig Powers wrote:
:
: > James Bell <jam...@naxs.com> spake thusly:
: > : I hate to rain on everyone's parade who think they've figured something out.
: > : It was painfully obvious throughout the entire movie that Senator Palpatine
: > : was the "bad guy." When it became obvious to me that he was the "Emperor"
: > : Palpatine:
: >
: > Well, I knew beforehand, but I'm pretty sure that came from reading one
: > of the novelizations or something, because I'm sure they never gave his
: > last name onscreen as emperor. Honestly, though, I do think you had to
: > work this out by lining up Sidious with Palpatine, because I don't think
: > it was obvious that he wasn't trying to do all of this to get out of the
: > Trade Federation jam.
Which isn't to say that I didn't /know/ that he was orchestrating things
this way; I did. I just didn't think it was apparent in the movie
unless you had already made the Sidious-Palpatine connection. This
could also go to explain why some people like the movie a lot more when
they see it the second time.
: I read this completely differently. The Trade Federation attack on
: Daboo, was orchestrated solely to put the Senate into crisis. Since
: the original Chancellor was effectively hamstrung and unable to
: correct the situation, it presented an opportunity for Palpatine to
: move in. As he stated in the movie, the fact that the Trade Federation
: was attacking Naboo would provide a sympathetic reaction which
: would help his position.
:
: The entire episode was orchestrated by Palpatine to get himself
: elected as Chancellor. The fact that the secondary objective of
: getting Naboo to sign some treaty or other and that the Trade
: Federation itself was critically wounded mattered very little to
: Palpatine. He basically achieved all of his objectives, even if all
: of the details didn't work out quite to his liking.
Yup. I knew that, perhaps not immediately, but certainly by the end of
the movie. What I was saying wasn't that I didn't know it, just that I
didn't think that the average person would figure it out IF they didn't
know that Palpatine = Sidious.
: Of course it appears that the "Bad Guys" (tm) lost, in reality the
: Bad Guy got what he wanted. The good guys won a tactical
: victory, but the bad guy won the strategic victory.
Which is very subversive; I like it that way.
Moreover, the bad guys have lost nothing of importance while learning
lessons about what doesn't work. Perhaps the worst thing that could
have happened is for the Good Guys (tm) to win, because now the Bad Guys
(tm) will be much stronger when they bring the next wave.
--
Craig Powers NU ChE class of '98
cpo...@lynx.dac.neu.edu http://lynx.neu.edu/home/httpd/c/cpowers
eni...@hal-pc.org http://www.hal-pc.org/~enigma
"Good..bad....I'm the guy with the gun." -- "Ash" in *Army of Darkness*
Craig Powers
: SPOILERS
: >Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
:
:
: My thoughts exactly. They sounded Asian to me...and Jar Jar's people sounded
: (and behaved) in (what I thought) was a derogatory stereotype of people of
: African descent and Jamaicans in particular. I left the theatre dumbfounded
: that no one on Lucas' PR team would have picked up on these potentially VERY
: insulting characterizations before the movie's release.
:
: I think (and certainly hope) that the makers of this film were not
: intentionally perpetuating racist stereotypes. Still, it boggles my mind
: that they weren't aware. It was pretty blatant, IMHO.
If you want a (very) thorough (and decidedly smoking or even outright
burning) treatment of this discussion, check out rec.arts.sf.movies.
The subject is "if you ain't a parent..."
Not to discourage discussion of it here, by any means, but you might be
interested in additional viewpoints on the matter.
Jim Batka
Craig Powers wrote:
> Jim Batka <jim....@sdrc.com> spake thusly:
<deletia>
> : Of course it appears that the "Bad Guys" (tm) lost, in reality the
> : Bad Guy got what he wanted. The good guys won a tactical
> : victory, but the bad guy won the strategic victory.
>
> Which is very subversive; I like it that way.
Me too. I enjoyed SW:TPM, but I wasn't really impressed by it.
However, several individual aspects of the movie were quite good
and I feel this was one of them. The few movie elements which
hint at the underlying B plot add a texture to this movie that I
think will help in the long run.
Another savings grace of the movie is that it is setting things in
motion for the next two movies.
I hope we get to see the payoff.
> Moreover, the bad guys have lost nothing of importance while learning
> lessons about what doesn't work. Perhaps the worst thing that could
> have happened is for the Good Guys (tm) to win, because now the Bad Guys
> (tm) will be much stronger when they bring the next wave.
Agreed. TPM is a good title because it should alert viewers to
the underlying plot. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie
again and looking for other elements of the B plot. Perhaps there
is more to this movie than we picked up on our first viewing.
I may have to take a nap through the middle of it though ;)
--
Jim Batka
Brian Watson
> Brian Watson wrote:
>
> > Tom Maddox wrote:
> >
> > > >> SOME SPOILERS...
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > You have seen the other movies, right? You do know what The Force is? The
> > > point of both those scenes is that The Force was with each character, allowing
> > > them to succeed in ways that would otherwise be impossible, or at least highly
> > > improbable.
> >
> > Oh yes. The Force. The pathetic 'imaculate conception of Anakin' story line made
> > me want to get up and leave the theatre right that moment. (And I would have if I
> > hadn't known there would be a lightsaber duel later) Jesus. As if he couldn't get
> > any more ridiculous. And then, to demystify the Force, GL decides to make the Force
> > a bunch of single celled organisms living in people's blood. And yet, he insists
> > they have a grander ability to be able to actually spontaneously generate a human
> > being. Bad bad bad bad bad storywriting.
> >
>
> Umm. Did you like the original trilogy?
They were tolerable. This piece of trash GL just put out wasn't.
> Remember Han Solo made the Kessel Run in 4 (or
> somesuch) PARSECS?
Yup. And it's amazing how you can measure a unit of time with a unit of distance. Uh huh.
> Remember the melodramatic acting?
Many would not even use a polysyllabic word to describe it. "Poor" acting suits it better.
> Remember the deus ex machina of
> Obi Wan telling Luke to "use his feelings" in order to destroy the Death Star?
Uh huh. The computer targetting system which should be able to measure things to the
micron, or at least significant enough to not miss a stationary target, fails yet a boy
whose only job has been 'crop dusting' targets the exact spot with his eyes closed.
> The
> carbon copy plot of RotJ from SW:ANH? The laughable temptation of Luke by the Emperor
> in Jedi? The annoying "yub-yub"ing of the Ewoks?
I applauded each time an annoying teddy bear bit it from an Imperial laser. It was
laughable that the Stormtroopers were even phased by the stone arrows that BOUNCED off their
armor, and that they actually turned around and ran away from the completely ineffective
stoneage weapons was even worse.
> Wasn't it fun, though? Silly mistakes and melodrama and all?
Yes. Parts of it was fun. This more current tripe, isn't, however. I will never find the
Pod Race enjoyable, because it's repetitive and boring with no tension what so ever. I will
never find the destruction of the space station enjoyable because that little twit playing
Anakin couldn't act his way out of a wet paper sack (and Leonardo Dicaprio could ONLY be an
improvement over his acting, I'm afraid to say).
> If you didn't like the old trilogy, why waste your time with the new one? You can be
> fairly certain that the new movies will be similar...
I could take the old trilogy or I could leave it. It was an okay series of movies, but at
least they had SOME substance. This current pile of filth is nothing more than GL making
the worlds longest toy commercial, and he KNOWS it.
> If you did like the original trilogy, then I can only surmise that somewhere along the
> line you lost your childlike ability to have fun with a movie and replaced it with the
> cynical need to find the flaws in everything.
Nope. You are incorrect. False. Wrong. In error.
I liked the original trilogy because they WERE fun, but this one ISN'T. And you, like so
many other SW fans, are probably in denial that it was that bad because you have been
looking forward to this one for so long you are mentally incapable of accepting the fact
that it was TERRIBLE.
> Me, I try to balance my cynicism with the innocent optimism of a child--and let me tell
> you, the seven-year-old in me thought the Phantom Menace was a damn good movie.
Yes. A seven year old would, but a discerning eye of an adult, who can enjoy a movie when
it is GOOD even if it does have faults is something entirely different. And by the way, if
you flash bright lights off a shiny penny, a seven year old child will fall in love with the
penny as well. And as far as I am concerned, the amount of money that I'd pay to see this
movie is only worth as much as that is
Daryl Nash
> Daryl Nash wrote:
>
> > Brian Watson wrote:
> >
> > > Tom Maddox wrote:
> > >
> > > > >> SOME SPOILERS...
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > You have seen the other movies, right? You do know what The Force is? The
> > > > point of both those scenes is that The Force was with each character, allowing
> > > > them to succeed in ways that would otherwise be impossible, or at least highly
> > > > improbable.
> > >
> > > Oh yes. The Force. The pathetic 'imaculate conception of Anakin' story line made
> > > me want to get up and leave the theatre right that moment. (And I would have if I
> > > hadn't known there would be a lightsaber duel later) Jesus. As if he couldn't get
> > > any more ridiculous. And then, to demystify the Force, GL decides to make the Force
> > > a bunch of single celled organisms living in people's blood. And yet, he insists
> > > they have a grander ability to be able to actually spontaneously generate a human
> > > being. Bad bad bad bad bad storywriting.
> > >
> >
> > Umm. Did you like the original trilogy?
>
> They were tolerable. This piece of trash GL just put out wasn't.
"Tolerable"? That's not exactly "like". It's usually a synonym for mediocre.
>
>
> > Remember Han Solo made the Kessel Run in 4 (or
> > somesuch) PARSECS?
>
> Yup. And it's amazing how you can measure a unit of time with a unit of distance. Uh huh.
Yah. My point.
>
>
> > Remember the melodramatic acting?
>
> Many would not even use a polysyllabic word to describe it. "Poor" acting suits it better.
>
Ah-ha. Here we may have your problem with Episode One. See the way the actors over-react to
things, often in an unrealistic manner? This, by some, would be called, "poor acting". But if
you're trying to capture the feel of a old sci-fi serial, it might be seen as
appropriate--hence, melodramatic.
> > Remember the deus ex machina of
> > Obi Wan telling Luke to "use his feelings" in order to destroy the Death Star?
>
> Uh huh. The computer targetting system which should be able to measure things to the
> micron, or at least significant enough to not miss a stationary target, fails yet a boy
> whose only job has been 'crop dusting' targets the exact spot with his eyes closed.
Yup. But it's not SCIENCE fiction, it's a bastard child of B-grade sci-fi and Joseph Campbell's
theories of mythology. And it shouldn't be judged by the same standards as hard sf, because
that's not the game it's playing.
>
>
> > The
> > carbon copy plot of RotJ from SW:ANH? The laughable temptation of Luke by the Emperor
> > in Jedi? The annoying "yub-yub"ing of the Ewoks?
>
> I applauded each time an annoying teddy bear bit it from an Imperial laser. It was
> laughable that the Stormtroopers were even phased by the stone arrows that BOUNCED off their
> armor, and that they actually turned around and ran away from the completely ineffective
> stoneage weapons was even worse.
>
> > Wasn't it fun, though? Silly mistakes and melodrama and all?
>
> Yes. Parts of it was fun. This more current tripe, isn't, however. I will never find the
> Pod Race enjoyable, because it's repetitive and boring with no tension what so ever. I will
> never find the destruction of the space station enjoyable because that little twit playing
> Anakin couldn't act his way out of a wet paper sack (and Leonardo Dicaprio could ONLY be an
> improvement over his acting, I'm afraid to say).
While the pod race was visually exciting, there was very little tension since we knew Anakin had
to win, and it certainly did go on too long. I found the space battle and Gungan battle to be
fun, if a bit silly. (Methinks you do not go in for silly.) And the light saber duel to be
very exciting. The entire last act is very comperable to the end of Return of the Jedi, in
fact.
> > If you didn't like the old trilogy, why waste your time with the new one? You can be
> > fairly certain that the new movies will be similar...
>
> I could take the old trilogy or I could leave it. It was an okay series of movies, but at
> least they had SOME substance. This current pile of filth is nothing more than GL making
> the worlds longest toy commercial, and he KNOWS it.
The original trilogy had substance? With the exception of Empire, I find the original trilogy
to be remarkably substance-free. Whereas Episode One felt a little too heavy in that regard--it
has so much set-up for the following movies (Palpatine, the Sith, Anakin, the goofy force
microbes) and glimpses into the politics of the Star Wars universe (about the only bit of
politics in the first trilogy was Vader or Tarkin saying that the Senate had been dissolved).
And if there was ever a two hour long toy commercial, it was Return of the Jedi....
> > If you did like the original trilogy, then I can only surmise that somewhere along the
> > line you lost your childlike ability to have fun with a movie and replaced it with the
> > cynical need to find the flaws in everything.
>
> Nope. You are incorrect. False. Wrong. In error.
>
> I liked the original trilogy because they WERE fun, but this one ISN'T. And you, like so
> many other SW fans, are probably in denial that it was that bad because you have been
> looking forward to this one for so long you are mentally incapable of accepting the fact
> that it was TERRIBLE.
No, the Mummy was TERRIBLE. Godzilla was TERRIBLE. The Phantom Menace is a far cry better than
those two turkeys, no matter what measuring stick you're using.
And I certainly think I am "mentally capable" of judging the relative worth of a movie in
general and SW:Ep 1 in particular. I have a certain nostalgia for Star Wars, but am not quite
in the fanboy camp. (There are two factions in that camp: Those who loved the movie because it
was Star Wars, and those who hated the movie because it did not measure up to the original
trilogy in their eyes. I am in neither faction--I think it was a good movie with certain
flaws.)
> > Me, I try to balance my cynicism with the innocent optimism of a child--and let me tell
> > you, the seven-year-old in me thought the Phantom Menace was a damn good movie.
>
> Yes. A seven year old would, but a discerning eye of an adult, who can enjoy a movie when
> it is GOOD even if it does have faults is something entirely different. And by the way, if
> you flash bright lights off a shiny penny, a seven year old child will fall in love with the
> penny as well. And as far as I am concerned, the amount of money that I'd pay to see this
> movie is only worth as much as that is
Mmm. Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
>From your comments about the old trilogy, I think you should have known you wouldn't like
Episode One. And trying to convice you otherwise is like a vegetarian trying to convince me
that a salad tastes good when I hate lettuce. (Or find it "tolerable".)
It's fine if it doesn't match your taste, but don't assume the quality of the movie is low just
because you don't like it. I, for one, found Singin' in the Rain to be a snoozer (to pick one
out of the AFI's top ten), but that's because I don't like musicals, not because it is
quantifiably a "bad" movie.
And if none of that makes any sense to you--just feel smug in the knowledge that you were bright
enough to see The Phantom Menace for the "tripe" that it is, while all of us poor fools labor
under the delusion that we enjoyed a good movie.
Daryl
Steve Brinich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The entire episode was orchestrated by Palpatine to get himself
> elected as Chancellor. The fact that the secondary objective of
> getting Naboo to sign some treaty or other and that the Trade
> Federation itself was critically wounded mattered very little to
> Palpatine. He basically achieved all of his objectives, even if all
> of the details didn't work out quite to his liking.
Actually, he can turn this to his advantage -- those valuable franchises
lost by the Trade Federation will presumably be gained by somebody, and
Palapatine is now in a good position to determine who that somebody will
be and obtain something in return. Also, he may not mind having the Trade
Federation crippled now that its usefulness to him (as far as we know) is
at an end.
Now that I think about it, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he
planned it this way, or at least planned two contingencies so that no
matter which side lost, he himself would win.
--
Steve Brinich <ste...@Radix.Net> If the government wants us
http://www.Radix.Net/~steveb to respect the law
89B992BBE67F7B2F64FDF2EA14374C3E it should set a better example
Dirk A. Loedding
"Western Environmental Law Center" <la...@laplaza.org> wrote:
>SPOILERS
[spoiler space recyled]
>>Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
>My thoughts exactly. They sounded Asian to me...and Jar Jar's people sounded
>(and behaved) in (what I thought) was a derogatory stereotype of people of
>African descent and Jamaicans in particular.
See, I didn't get that, at all. What *I* got from Jar Jar and his
people was more South Pacific Island types...polynesians, and the like,
speaking pidgin English. I had read some of the stuff on other
newsgroups about the overt racial stereotyping supposedly going on in
this movie, and I just didn't see it. Not at all. And neither did my
wife, who is *very* sensitive to that sort of thing.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dirk A. Loedding <*> ju...@america.net |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Lawrence King
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Jim Batka <jim....@sdrc.com> wrote:
>> : As he stated in the movie, the fact that the Trade Federation
>> : was attacking Naboo would provide a sympathetic reaction which
>> : would help his position.
>> :
>> : The entire episode was orchestrated by Palpatine to get himself
>> : elected as Chancellor.
Craig Powers <eni...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>> Yup. I knew that, perhaps not immediately, but certainly by the
>> end of the movie. What I was saying wasn't that I didn't know it,
>> just that I didn't think that the average person would figure it
>> out IF they didn't know that Palpatine = Sidious.
And without that knowledge, even the title of the movie makes no sense.
Jim argues that the title is another =clue= which would help them figure
out the trick. I just don't see it. I would not have recognized the
Senator's voice and chin if I didn't know his name. It's very possible I
would have picked up on his occasional creepiness, and since the
Lucasworld is pretty black-and-white this would automatically have raised
a suspicion that he was evil.
But if it wasn't a Lucas film, even concluding that the Senator was taking
advantage of the crisis to get a promotion would NOT imply that he was
secretly behind the crisis all along!
Over a third of the folks I saw it with didn't realize the Senator was the
Emperor/Sidious.
Larry King
univ of washington
Cheryl Martin
>BEWARE! The topic entitled
> "Re: ATTN JMS: Star Wars Movie (No Plot Spoilers)"
>does have spoilers in it! looks like the moderators missed it.
Sorry, this isn't a Star Wars newsgroup so we aren't watching for TPM
spoilers.
Cheryl
(who went to a midnight showing and there were only 4 other people in
the theater)
--
% zof...@deepthot.aurora.co.us Cheryl Martin, grumpy witch %
% List Mistress, Denver Area Poly List %
% moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.bablyon5.moderated %
% My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/~ayofolashade %
Laura M. Appelbaum
>
> In article <7ihsof$qe5$1...@sloth.swcp.com>,
> "Western Environmental Law Center" <la...@laplaza.org> wrote:
>
> >SPOILERS
>
> [spoiler space recyled]
>
> >>Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
>
> >My thoughts exactly. They sounded Asian to me...and Jar Jar's people sounded
> >(and behaved) in (what I thought) was a derogatory stereotype of people of
> >African descent and Jamaicans in particular.
>
> See, I didn't get that, at all. What *I* got from Jar Jar and his
> people was more South Pacific Island types...polynesians, and the like,
> speaking pidgin English. I had read some of the stuff on other
> newsgroups about the overt racial stereotyping supposedly going on in
> this movie, and I just didn't see it. Not at all. And neither did my
> wife, who is *very* sensitive to that sort of thing.
>
what I was watching. Of course, that's pretty much what I felt thru the
whole film (which I just saw yesterday) -- am I really WATCHING
something THIS BAD? If a friend hadn't driven us, I would have walked
out after the first interminable hour. You know, you can take a pile of
crap and put it into a $100,000,000 silver bucket, but it's still just a
pile of crap.
LMA
Joe Schulte
: In article <7ihsof$qe5$1...@sloth.swcp.com>,
: "Western Environmental Law Center" <la...@laplaza.org> wrote:
: >SPOILERS
: [spoiler space recyled]
: >>Personally, I was thinking along the lines of Oriental.
: >My thoughts exactly. They sounded Asian to me...and Jar Jar's people sounded
: >(and behaved) in (what I thought) was a derogatory stereotype of people of
: >African descent and Jamaicans in particular.
: See, I didn't get that, at all. What *I* got from Jar Jar and his
: people was more South Pacific Island types...polynesians, and the like,
: speaking pidgin English. I had read some of the stuff on other
: newsgroups about the overt racial stereotyping supposedly going on in
: this movie, and I just didn't see it. Not at all. And neither did my
: wife, who is *very* sensitive to that sort of thing.
Just like a lot of other "offensive" things, it all depends on how hard
you look.
Most people who look hard enough will manage to find it.
Jeffrey MacHott
Yeah, I didn't see the African American connection to Jar Jar, I
thought he was making fun of Italians because he sounded like Mario or
Luigi... But people are bored, they try to find this kind of thing in
popular things. I could say that the Klendathu in StarShip Troopers
were making army ants look bad, but I didn't... Lets face it,
everyone's tired of roasting Clinton...
James A. Wolf
> Lets face it,
>everyone's tired of roasting Clinton...
Speak for yourself. :->
When Robert Conquest's book about the Soviet Union 'The Great
Terror' was to be re-issued, the publisher recomended that they use a
new title. The author suggested, 'I Told You So You F***ing Fools'.
Lesse, Clinton's handpicked idiots let the spies run amok,
while they topok contributions from their masters. Meanwhile,
Macnamara... I mean Madaline... Albright is leading us down the
primrose path in the Balkans. And so Clinton, in violation of the War
Powers act, is having our fighting men and women- volunteers all- show
the flag by bombing Belgrade.
But chatacter doesn't count.
Sorry about the rant, but I know how Mr. Conquest feels.
UnltdLife
>out after the first interminable hour.
What?! And not even demanded your money back?
>You know, you can take a pile of
>crap and put it into a $100,000,000 silver bucket, but it's still just a
>pile of crap.
As long as you realize that the above is just your opinion. (Not about the
"crap" in general -- but about The Phantom Menace...) I'm sure many millions
of people would disagree with you. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
Jason
Nicholas C. Weaver
Everyone involved in the movie did a wonderful job except for George
Lucas.
--
Nicholas C. Weaver nwe...@cs.berkeley.edu
Joe Schulte
: (I heard this from someone).
: Everyone involved in the movie did a wonderful job except for George
: Lucas.
Blah blah.
Anyways, if you REALLY want a summary of the movie with minimalish
spoilers, watch the Pepsi commercial where the alien is playing with the
Pepsi cans.
It's actually a pretty funny summary. Better than most of the attempts at
wit I've seen on the 'net.
UnltdLife
>spoilers, watch the Pepsi commercial where the alien is playing with the
>Pepsi cans.
That really is a grrrrrreat commercial!
Jason
(Oh, my brain is leaking...)
Triad3204
Templeton) writes:
>The funny thing is I think the hype scared away the lines, though it
>may not last. I was driving through a smaller town yesterday, went
>past the moviehouse and there was just a short line for their first
>showing of the day (other than a midnight one) at 4pm. I went in and
>sat in the sweet spot of the cinema, getting there just 45 minutes
>before the film. It only filled about half the house, and the 7pm
>show didn't sell out either.
I don't think *any* movie could fill all the theatres this one is playing at. I
live in Minneapolis, MN and haven't had any problems getting in ever. Which
isn't surprising since there must be over 100 theatres showing the thing every
single day of the week from 10 AM in the morning until 10 PM or midnight.
Also, since I'm posting to this thread I might as well post my Generic Star
Wars Rebuttal message (covering all the common complaints):
The blood test: Clearly the midiclorians are merely an indication of potential
(remember -- even in RETURN we were told that the Force could "run strongly" in
certain families). To get in touch with that potential all of the spiritual
elements still remain. The fact that Lucas has postulated that we may someday
find a scientific underpinning for spirituality is not exactly that
earth-shattering -- the mere fact that what people can do with the Force is
demonstrable and repeatable is, in one, way making the spiritual scientific.
Taking the next step changes nothing about the underlying strength of these
concepts.
The virgin birth: Meeting a guide (Obi-Wan Kenobi) who gives you the secret
knowledge (the Force) and tools (a lightsaber) necessary to overcome the great
evil (the Death Star) is a mythic archetype. A virgin birth signifying the
chosen one is no different -- it is merely that your average Judeo-Christian
upbringing has made the one "ridiculous" (oddly enough; shouldn't it encourage
the opposite?). Read Joseph Campbell's A HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES and get a
grip on yourself. I expect that we shall also see young Anakin face three
challenges to his "faith" (temptations), and (unlike the Christ and Buddha
figures) you will see him fail in one of them.
Jar Jar Binks: Jar Jar is no more "out of place" than C3-PO. The fact that you
have watched the first trilogy of movies 500 times (or whatever your personal
count may be) and sublimated the fact that those droids (and several other
characters) are actually nothing but glorified comic relief (just like Jar Jar
Binks) doesn't mean that they aren't.
Negative Racial Stereotypes: Jar Jar is, of course, the most "noticeable" of
these. Let me say this: I have Jamaican friends. Although there are tonal
similarities in the accents, Jar Jar (and the other Gungans) are NOT speaking
with a Jamaican dialect. And if the reps of the Trade Federation are "Asian" in
some way (other than the "we're really good at business" -- which is a
*positive* stereotype) then you've met different Asians than I have. The truth
of this position is generally backed up by the fact that if you’ve been
following this particular "controversy" you’ll see that all of these "racist
portrayals" have, in fact, been ascribed to different minority groups by
different protesters. The fact that people are seeing "racism" in this film
tells us more about the prejudices of the people making such outrageous claims
than about the film itself. The fact that they are capable of seeing Jar Jar as
a "negative black stereotype", for example, despite the fact that... uh... he's
an ALIEN... tells us more about these people than about Jar Jar.
Lloyd's Acting: Sucks. There can be no denying it.
THE PHANTOM MENACE, in closing, is an excellent film -- in every way as good as
those of the first trilogy. The first time I watched it I was somewhat
disappointed, but after going back a couple of times I can now put my thumb on
why that was: I had built up certain, general expectations of what type of
story this would be before ever coming to the theatre. Years ago, in fact, I
had constructed my own nebulous version of how Anakin turns to the dark side.
The hard reality could never hope to live up to those potent, isolated images I
had constructed. The truth is that I could not enjoy this film until I learned
to enjoy it FOR ITSELF, not for what I would have done.
Justin Bacon
tr...@prairie.lakes.com
Richard Gitschlag
> >: the original trilogy, you know that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. It's
> >not
> >: really any sort of revelation that Senator Palpatine becomes Emperor
> >: Palpatine, unless one believes that Palpatine is just an incredibly common
> >: name in the Star Wars universe.
> >
>
> See, I don't think that was so much a tip that Senator Palpatine became Emperor
> Palpatine. Most fans already know this. What it does is it tells you, if you
> hadn't caught on, who Darth Sidious is. Without recognizing the voice or lower
> face, many might not know that Seator Palpatine and Sidious are one and the
> same.
>
> That's what I think the scene was for.
What about all the peripheral fans, newcomers and other movie watchers who haven't
followed the story as closely as most of the people here? We see something
unnecessary because we are in the know, but there are many more out there who are
not.
Stswfan
>I think that people might be reading way too much here.
<snip>
>Again, I don't think that Lucas is being racist
I agree. Perhaps those who believe this movie is insulting would prefer a
whole new language to be developed, and then the audience would have to sit
through subtitles. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the various accents to
differentiate the races. Unfortunately, imho, our society has become so
litigious that it seeks the least little opportunity as a means of "making
money".
Faith Manages.
Brian Watson
> <snip>
> >Again, I don't think that Lucas is being racist
>
> I agree. Perhaps those who believe this movie is insulting would prefer a
> whole new language to be developed, and then the audience would have to sit
> through subtitles. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the various accents to
> differentiate the races. Unfortunately, imho, our society has become so
> litigious that it seeks the least little opportunity as a means of "making
> money".
Actually, yes, I would have prefered a new language be created by Lucas for Jar
Jar! He wouldn't even have to make a real language, just the kind of grunts, hoots
and whistles that we've gotten from Jaba, Chewbacca, and whatever other races he's
used like that. At least if us, and the kids, have to read the subtitles, then
there might be some kind of learning experience rather than the crap Lucas made
this turn around, and probably the next movie.
And who is suing Lucas over the characters? If no one, then the complaints aren't
transparent attempts to get money from them, they are people who have legitimate
complaints about Lucas's "technique."
nanorc
Stswfan <sts...@aol.com> wrote
> >Again, I don't think that Lucas is being racist
>
> I agree. Perhaps those who believe this movie is insulting would prefer a
> whole new language to be developed, and then the audience would have to sit
> through subtitles. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the various accents
> to differentiate the races. Unfortunately, imho, our society has become so
> litigious that it seeks the least little opportunity as a means of "making
> money".
Though I agree with your sentiment (Lucas had no intention of being
offensive or racist) I don't really see how our society's recently
litigious nature has any bearing on this. No one is trying to sue
Lucas.
The only money being made and changing hands (as far as I can tell)
is by those seeking donations for their various "causes" to fight the
sort of thing they proclaim Lucas proclaim guilty of.
My point here is that we should attack the right PC strawman if we
must engage in such banal silliness. That lawyers are out there
doing Very Bad Things is, I suppose, commonly accepted knowledge,
but the problem I have here comes from our culture's current view
of lawyers and their purportedly nefarious deeds suddenly being to
blame for *everything* that goes wrong. You end up almost
institutionalizing a form bigotry while trying to fight a certainly
lesser evil.
Nanorc
...'pointing fingers' is usually just where it starts
Alisa Schreibman
>must engage in such banal silliness. That lawyers are out there
>doing Very Bad Things is, I suppose, commonly accepted knowledge,
>but the problem I have here comes from our culture's current view
>of lawyers and their purportedly nefarious deeds suddenly being to
>blame for *everything* that goes wrong. You end up almost
>institutionalizing a form bigotry while trying to fight a certainly
>lesser evil.
>
>Nanorc
>...'pointing fingers' is usually just where it starts
>
(Not directed at you Nanorc, just wanting to say this.) Hey, I'm a lawyer
(a legal academic to be precise), and here I am making civil posts and
enjoying B5 and Crusade. These are not Very Bad Things. And I have lots of
lawyer-friends that are doing Very Good Things--fighting for clean air,
water, sustainable development; trying to get prison conditions improved;
protecting battered children and women; litigating racial and sexual
harassment suits, and so on. Lawyers aren't bad people, but there are some
bad people who are lawyers. The unfortunate thing is that they are the ones
who get all the air time.
Alisa