Sexual imagery in SW
av...@vax.rhodes.edu
the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
seems to have a lot of sexual imagery. The phallic shaped
X-wings fly into the trench and aim their blasts into the hole.
Some of the shots of the pilots have them rocking up and down
as if having sex. Lines like "Look at the size of that thing"
and "getting closer, getting closer" sound sexual as well.
AfteAfter the climax (no pun intended) where the Death Star
explodes, Luke is seen rocking up and down in a relieved,
"wow that was good sex" kind of way. Do you guys think these
similarities were intentional?
Mangum
you're kidding, right? If anything Lucas went out of his way to avoid
sexual imagery. The only time you can tell Leia even is a woman is
when she is held captive....ergo, sex=evil. while both Luke and Han
may look terribly attractive at times, (and esp when Luke wears black!)
at no time do they even appear as sexual beings. the only kiss is
purely chaste and if you look around, there appears to be only two
women in the entire universe, Leia and Mon Montha...but that's another
story....
--
Jeanne Mangum....tjmangum@ix.netcom.com.....AuntT...@aol.com
The door to your cage is open.
All you have to do is walk out....if you dare ...George Lucas
Eric N. Tully
Luke: "We're going in. We're going in full throttle"
Biggs: "Luke, at that speed will you be able to pull out in time?"
There is no question in my mind that the entire Death Star sequence was one
big orgy. It is a film maker's job to conjure up imagery and compare a
story to something you're familiar with. (Which is why ANH was a little
over my head at nine years old!) And if you want to argue that Lucas is
a PG kind of guy, then I acuse his subconscious of doing some of the
writing. Tell me, could you write that scene (with that CLIMACTIC an
ending) without thinking of sex? I'm glad Lucas didn't turn the trilogy
into a typical sex fantasy with scantily clad Hurculean women. Just
because there's no sex, though, doesn't mean there isn't sexual imagery.
************************************************************
* Eric Tully, Syracuse University, Syracuse, New York *
------------------------------------------------------------
* "The most valuable commodity I know of is Information" *
************************************************************
Peter Ferguson
looking at a piece of dirt...
JOSH NIMOCKS
: --
: Jeanne Mangum....tjmangum@ix.netcom.com.....AuntT...@aol.com
Actually there are two kisses...the one where Leia kissed Luke to piss
Han off and the one on the Falcon when Leia's fixing something and
scoundrel man comes along.
RUTH RENWICK
In a previous article, av...@vax.rhodes.edu () says:
>I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I wanted to see waht
>the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
>seems to have a lot of sexual imagery. The phallic shaped
>X-wings fly into the trench and aim their blasts into the hole.
>Some of the shots of the pilots have them rocking up and down
>as if having sex. Lines like "Look at the size of that thing"
>and "getting closer, getting closer" sound sexual as well.
>AfteAfter the climax (no pun intended) where the Death Star
>explodes, Luke is seen rocking up and down in a relieved,
>"wow that was good sex" kind of way. Do you guys think these
>similarities were intentional?
>
You must think about sex with giant metal balls alot,huh?:-)
-Andrew
Tom Lichy
>I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I wanted to see waht
>the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
>seems to have a lot of sexual imagery. The phallic shaped
>X-wings fly into the trench and aim their blasts into the hole.
>Some of the shots of the pilots have them rocking up and down
>as if having sex. Lines like "Look at the size of that thing"
>and "getting closer, getting closer" sound sexual as well.
>AfteAfter the climax (no pun intended) where the Death Star
>explodes, Luke is seen rocking up and down in a relieved,
>"wow that was good sex" kind of way. Do you guys think these
>similarities were intentional?
I totally agree with you there. Also am I the only one who thinks
that Y-wing ships are somehow femmine and mothery? Maybe it's
because 1) In the films, Y-wings are often shown as mother wombs transporting
and disgorging piviotal characters from their belly, c.f. Darth Vader being
'born' from a Y-wing at the start of ANH. 2) My sad mind may have this
the wrong way round, but isn't the Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
and thus the brave macho X-wings, with their strangely penile-like
expanding wings and ejaculating guns seem incrediably masculine to me.
3) X-wings seem to be masculine cos they blow up, get burnt, it's a rough
life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
it's all plush fabrics and drapes - the Emperor's Y-wing in ROTJ,
(*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a mother
giving birth ....?
Is anyone with me?
Tom Lichy, Department of Artificial Intelligence. <disclaimer>
t...@dcs.ed.ac.uk University of Edinburgh. <goes here.>
Support Mebyon Kernow and Independence for Cornwall NOW!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Sean McManus
In SW: 2 kisses, both from leia to luke
IN E: 4 kisses, one deep leia to luke, two deep han and leia together,
and one from lando to leia (her hand counts)
IN J: 2 kisses between leia and han
Alas though, a kiss is but a kiss. From the insestious to the fleeting
greeting of a scoundrel there are a variety of kisses, none of them are
really used as an expression of sexual passion. They mearly represent
emotional bonds between individuals. This I would not call sexual
imagery. This would more appropriately be classified as the use of a
characters sexualtity to display his or her alligence. Interestingly
enough all of our favorite heros all kissed leia, and no body else.
Talk about the motivation for a revolution!
_____________________________MSM 5373___________________________________
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What's that buzzing?
Are you now, or have you ever been?
Move slowly...
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Brian Jennings
>and disgorging piviotal characters from their belly, c.f. Darth Vader being
>'born' from a Y-wing at the start of ANH.
That's a shuttle, not a Y-Wing. The Y-Wings are the ancient Rebel bombers
that are extremely easy to destroy (I've personally taken out 86).
-Apocalypse
-------
Sent from Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School.
Quantum BBS/E-Mail (508)443-4644
The views expressed in this posting are those of the individual.
-------
Mangum
>Actually there are two kisses...the one where Leia kissed Luke to piss
>Han off and the one on the Falcon when Leia's fixing something and
>scoundrel man comes along.
Three. you forgot the kiss for good luck before they swing across
the..whatever it is.
Mangum
Wolf) writes:
>
>In article <7987543...@ksmith.com> JOSH NIMOCKS wrote:
>>Mangum (tjma...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>there appears to be only two women in the entire universe,
>>Leia and Mon Montha...but that's another story....
>>
>
>Wars universe: Aunt Beru :-)
>
ooooops, how could i forget my namesake? aunt beru, aka aunt toast?;)
Christopher Wolf
>Mangum (tjma...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>there appears to be only two women in the entire universe,
>Leia and Mon Montha...but that's another story....
>
You forgot the third woman with a sizable chunk of dialog in the Star
Wars universe: Aunt Beru :-)
--
Christopher A. Wolf <ch...@warped.com>
NeXTmail, MIME, PGP accepted (finger me for PGP public key)
Christopher Wolf
>I totally agree with you there. Also am I the only one who thinks
>that Y-wing ships are somehow femmine and mothery?
You're majorly confused here. The ships you seem to be referring to as
"Y-wings" are Imperial Shuttles. The real Y-wings are the other rebel fighter
model (besides the X-wing) which participated in the assault on the first Death
Star.
>Maybe it's because 1) In the films, Y-wings are often shown as mother wombs
>transporting and disgorging piviotal characters from their belly, c.f. Darth
>Vader being 'born' from a Y-wing at the start of ANH.
I think you are talking about the beginning of Return of the Jedi when Darth
Vader arrives on the 2nd Death Star. He arrives on an Imperial Shuttle not a
Y-Wing.
>2) My sad mind may have this the wrong way round, but isn't the
>Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
No. The Y-chromosome is the male chromosome.
>3) X-wings seem to be masculine cos they blow up, get burnt, it's a rough
>life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
>it's all plush fabrics and drapes - the Emperor's Y-wing in ROTJ,
>(*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a mother
>giving birth ....?
The Emperor also arrived on an Imperial Shuttle and as far as I can remember we
never see the interior of it.
>Is anyone with me?
I wonder if I've just been trolled.....
- Chris
M. Sean McManus
responded and assumibly figured I was nuts or they just were to repressed
to talk intelligently on the subject. Actually ther was one person who
told about a book that explored this matter intirely. The book was called
EROS AND THE MINDS EYE. Ther are tons and tons of metaphores.
Think X & Y sperm trying to penetrate the big galactic egg. The big bang,
explosion at the begining of life. X & Y wings fighting against the death
star. MAny Many more. SW is overloaded with this sort of symbolism.
EMAIL ME.
M. Sean McManus
hyper drive conrtols are phalic shaped, hyperdrive and "jumping" into
hyperspace is basically a big technological orgasim!
Christopher Novosad
in the corner. It mechanically pumps back and forth. They kiss, and
next thing you know, Leia is acting like a woman instead of a scared,
bossy princess. Guess that trip to Bespin was more fun than they led on....
$.02
. "... Still, even a duck has to be taught to swim." .
. "What's a duck?" Luke asked curiously. .
o "Never mind..." Kenobi's unabashed look of evaluation made Luke nervous.o
O - Star Wars novelization O
o ------------------------------------------------------------------------ o
. Christopher Novosad, sometimes Pa'ash Shonasha, all others: .
. VOLTAYRE, Gundark Ear Puller, Esq. (volt...@actlab.utexas.edu) .
Karen M Cartmell
On 25 Apr 1995, Mangum wrote:
>
> >Actually there are two kisses...the one where Leia kissed Luke to piss
> >Han off and the one on the Falcon when Leia's fixing something and
> >scoundrel man comes along.
>
> Three. you forgot the kiss for good luck before they swing across
> the..whatever it is.
> --
> Jeanne Mangum....tjmangum@ix.netcom.com.....AuntT...@aol.com
>
> The door to your cage is open.
> All you have to do is walk out....if you dare ...George Lucas
>
>
in ANH and ESB there are a total of ten kisses, (we didn't watch
ROTJ to count, but we will) this is counting all kisses on the cheek
andhands as well
Karen
Mara Jade
>because 1) In the films, Y-wings are often shown as mother wombs transporting
>and disgorging piviotal characters from their belly, c.f. Darth Vader being
>'born' from a Y-wing at the start of ANH. 2) My sad mind may have this
Beg pardon? Vader was never in a Y-wing. Why would an Imperial be
in a Rebel fighter?
>the wrong way round, but isn't the Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
Nope. Y is male, X is female. Well, actually, lack of Y is female.
Everyone has at least one X chromosome, which they received from their
mother. The father's contribution of an X or a Y decides the gender of the
child. If he gives an X, the child is a girl, a Y a boy.
>life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
>it's all plush fabrics and drapes - the Emperor's Y-wing in ROTJ,
>(*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a mother
You're thinking of Imperial shuttles, aren't you? Those are *very*
different from Y-wings. Y-wings, like X-wings, are snub fighters. Shuttles
are...just that. Shuttles aren't intended for combat, and fighters are.
Christopher S. Kivlehan
Jussi Hannula
> >life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
> >it's all plush fabrics and drapes - the Emperor's Y-wing in ROTJ,
> >(*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a mother
> You're thinking of Imperial shuttles, aren't you? Those are *very*
> different from Y-wings. Y-wings, like X-wings, are snub fighters. Shuttles
> are...just that. Shuttles aren't intended for combat, and fighters are.
True, except that Y-Wings are not fighters either, in the true meaning of
the word. Fighters are aircraft (in this case spacecraft) designed to
destroy other air[space]craft. Y-Wings are bombers with a limited
capability to defend themselves, so you can technically call them
fighter-bombers, but fighters they are not. Sorry about being so anal, I
just happen to hate Y-Wings and I think calling them fighters gives them
way too much credit :) X-Wings, on the other hand...
"There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets."
Maj Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson, USMC
-Evacuate? In our oo__ _ _ __oo ,_~"""~-,
moment of triumph? """--,,,_(_)_--_(_)_,,,--""" .'(_)------`,
I think you overestimate... _>_[____]_<_ |===========|
-But, sir, it's SpAce! ___--""" (_)\__/(_) """--___ `,---------,'
-Where's my shuttle?!! oo"" ""oo ~-.___.-~
DSauder
But it does kind of make me smile when I think of the comparisons!
Tom Lichy wrote:
>2) My sad mind may have this
>the wrong way round, but isn't the Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
>and thus the brave macho X-wings, with their strangely penile-like
>expanding wings and ejaculating guns seem incrediably masculine to me.
Good guess, but it is actually the other way around.
The X is the female chromosome and the Y is the male chromosome.
It is interesting that Lucas chose X and Y for his fighters, isn't it?
Nathanel J. Barlow
in SW by JOSH NIM...@ksmith.com
> Han off and the one on the Falcon when Leia's fixing something and
> scoundrel man comes along.
What about the "for luck" kiss in ANH? I believe there's a few others I
can't remember--doesn't Leia kiss Han after freeing him from carbonite?
Nate (Shocked that he cannot remember such details--time to for another
viewing)
Jedi
>I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I wanted to see waht
>the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
>seems to have a lot of sexual imagery. The phallic shaped
>X-wings fly into the trench and aim their blasts into the hole.
>Some of the shots of the pilots have them rocking up and down
>as if having sex. Lines like "Look at the size of that thing"
>and "getting closer, getting closer" sound sexual as well.
>AfteAfter the climax (no pun intended) where the Death Star
>explodes, Luke is seen rocking up and down in a relieved,
>"wow that was good sex" kind of way. Do you guys think these
>similarities were intentional?
One word: Sarlaac.
~jedi
--
<je...@ecst.csuchico.edu> http://www2.ecst.csuchico.edu/~jedi/index.html
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Verse Chorus Verse, the Nirvana Homepage:
- http://www2.ecst.csuchico.edu/~jedi/nirvana.html
Scott Gastineau
In article <D7Kvo...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, t...@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tom Lichy) writes:
> In article <1995Apr24.030507.2583@rhodes> av...@vax.rhodes.edu writes:
>>I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I wanted to see waht
>>the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
>>seems to have a lot of sexual imagery. (cut)
>
> I totally agree with you there. Also am I the only one who thinks
> that Y-wing ships are somehow femmine and mothery? Maybe it's
> because 1) In the films, Y-wings are often shown as mother wombs transporting
> and disgorging piviotal characters from their belly, c.f. Darth Vader being
> 'born' from a Y-wing at the start of ANH.
What in the world are you typing about? The first time that
Vader is seen in ANH, he walks from his super star destroyer onto the
captured rebel craft. Vader flies an enhanced TIE fighter in the
trech run scene, but I don't recall him ever flying in a Y-Wing.
>2) My sad mind may have this
> the wrong way round, but isn't the Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
> and thus the brave macho X-wings, with their strangely penile-like
> expanding wings and ejaculating guns seem incrediably masculine to me.
> 3) X-wings seem to be masculine cos they blow up, get burnt, it's a rough
> life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
> it's all plush fabrics and drapes
Based on the X-Wing game, I'd have to agree that the Y-wing
cockpit does appear more padded and roomier. However, the Y-wing
actually has superior fire-power and carries more photon torpedoes
than the X-Wing (in exchange for a lack of speed) so the analogy isn't
perfect.
>- the Emperor's Y-wing in ROTJ,
> (*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a mother
> giving birth ....?
I think that you're thinking of a shuttle. Shuttles look like
an upside down Y when viewed from head-on. Y-Wings look like Y's when
viewed from above.
> Is anyone with me?
half-way.
Marissa Douglas
Jussi Hannula <hann...@cs.usafa.af.mil> writes:
> Y-Wings are not fighters either, in the true meaning of
> the word. Fighters are aircraft (in this case spacecraft) designed to
> destroy other air[space]craft. Y-Wings are bombers with a limited
> capability to defend themselves, so you can technically call them
> fighter-bombers, but fighters they are not. Sorry about being so anal, I
> just happen to hate Y-Wings and I think calling them fighters gives them
> way too much credit :) X-Wings, on the other hand...
Grrrrrr! How dare you insult the Y-wing, the best-looking and most
powerful weapon in the Rebel fleet?
The Y-wing is a supreme design...sleek, powerful, able to both dogfight
and drop bombs and proton torpedoes! An X-wing, though a good ship, would
be no match for a Y-wing. The Y-wing is the best fighter in the entire
galaxy!
Its the X-wing which is being given too much credit! Y-wings forever! :)
*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*
* Marissa Louise Douglas*MD90...@Caper1.uccb.ns.ca*E-Mail Welcome! *
* ----------------------------------------------------------------- *
* "To live will be a very great adventure!" -Peter Banning, _Hook_ *
*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*
DAVID LEMEN
av...@vax.rhodes.edu writes:
>I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I wanted to see waht
>the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
>seems to have a lot of sexual imagery. The phallic shaped
>X-wings fly into the trench and aim their blasts into the hole.
>Some of the shots of the pilots have them rocking up and down
>as if having sex. Lines like "Look at the size of that thing"
>and "getting closer, getting closer" sound sexual as well.
>AfteAfter the climax (no pun intended) where the Death Star
>explodes, Luke is seen rocking up and down in a relieved,
>"wow that was good sex" kind of way. Do you guys think these
>similarities were intentional?
Well...personally, I have never really bought into the whole
'sexual-imagry' thing. I guess from a certain Fruedian point of
view, everything is sexual in some sense. However, I do not feel
that it was meant to be explicitely nor implicitely in Star Wars.
Most of the imagery you described above is actually just common
sense stuff. Earlier Han said "it's to big to be a space station"
so "look at the size..." seems appropriate. Since the first pilot
was "Getting closer" to the target, that line seem appropriate as
well. As far as the use of a hole for the target, I'm not sure
what else would have been appropriate. since this DS was contained,
they could not fly into it like they did DS2. They needed a way to
get their weaponry ("blasts") inside to destroy it. I guess they
could have found a window, but it just doesn't have the same impact.
Not to mention...if you recall from the footage from Desert Storm,
we actually aimed/fired a missle into an vent port of a building and
it went down and blew out the ground floor. I wouldn't say Schwartzcoff
(pardon my spelling) was acting out fruedian tendencies.
I don't know. I guess that just about anything could be made to
appear sexual in some way. My wife studies art in college and she
learns about all the sexual imagery in flower paintings. Even the
artist themselves (Georgio O'Keefe specifically) adamently denied
sexual meaning in the paintings but people still see it. I suppose
the same is now true with Star Wars.
Just my $0.02
MTFBWY,
Dave
Taki Kogoma
<Pine.SUN.3.91.95042...@troi.usafa.af.mil> in rec.arts.sf.starwars:
>True, except that Y-Wings are not fighters either, in the true meaning of
>destroy other air[space]craft. Y-Wings are bombers with a limited
>capability to defend themselves, so you can technically call them
>fighter-bombers, but fighters they are not. Sorry about being so anal, I
>just happen to hate Y-Wings and I think calling them fighters gives them
>way too much credit :) X-Wings, on the other hand...
Now, now...
I expect that the Y-wing was, at one time, a front-line fighter.
However, this was probably on the order of a decade before Palpatine's
rise to power. There's a long tradition of converting formerly
top-of-the-line fighters into fighter-bombers. (Ex: F4U Corsairs
serving as F/Bs in the Korean war.)
>"There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets."
> Maj Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson, USMC
That's funny. I heard this as a sub driver talking about Submarines
and Targets. ;-)
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
qu...@unm.edu | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
Erik Christensen
Jussi Hannula, hann...@cs.usafa.af.mil writes:
>True, except that Y-Wings are not fighters either, in the true meaning of
>the word. Fighters are aircraft (in this case spacecraft) designed to
>destroy other air[space]craft. Y-Wings are bombers with a limited
>capability to defend themselves, so you can technically call them
>fighter-bombers, but fighters they are not. Sorry about being so anal, I
>just happen to hate Y-Wings and I think calling them fighters gives them
>way too much credit :) X-Wings, on the other hand...
Well, that's not really a very good analogy, since Y-wings CAN defend
themselves, as seen in ROTJ where one takes out one (or maybe two, not
sure if the second just crashes into a cruiser). Plus, the X-wing would
then have to be a fighter/bomber, not a fighter. The *A-wing* would be
the fighter.
Also, since you say that "fighters are aircraft(in this case spacecraft)
designed to destroy other air(space) craft" then a Y-wing WOULD be a
fighter, since it blows up capital ships. (Sorry, that was a
technicality)
Erik Christensen
gas...@wkuvx1.wku.edu writes:
> No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
>One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
>chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
>chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
If you get two Y chromosomes, you become a huge, slobbering mutant.
(Actually I was kidding about the last part)
Erik Christensen
Douglas, MD90...@caper1.uccb.ns.ca writes:
> Its the X-wing which is being given too much credit! Y-wings forever! :)
I agree, but the TIE Fighter is the best ship o' all. In a skilled
pilot's hands, it can outmanuver any ship ever created. And it looks
real cool.
Jussi Hannula
> Grrrrrr! How dare you insult the Y-wing, the best-looking and most
> powerful weapon in the Rebel fleet?
> The Y-wing is a supreme design...sleek, powerful, able to both dogfight
> and drop bombs and proton torpedoes! An X-wing, though a good ship, would
> be no match for a Y-wing. The Y-wing is the best fighter in the entire
> galaxy!
I like your sense of humor... ;)
> Its the X-wing which is being given too much credit! Y-wings forever! :)
OK, humor is one thing... but please don't push your luck any further! :)
| _ | \_____/ oo__ _ _ __oo / _ \
|=(_)=| __ | __ """--,,,_(_)_--_(_)_,,,--""" / _ _ \ |-=(_)=-|
| | \-(_)-/ _>_[____]_<_ |=(_)(_)=| \ /
\ / ___--""" (_)\__/(_) """--___ \ " /
/ \ oo"" ""oo -SpAce-
Never tell me the odds!!!
dmkr...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
: As for the whole kiss thing,
: In SW: 2 kisses, both from leia to luke
: IN E: 4 kisses, one deep leia to luke, two deep han and leia together,
: and one from lando to leia (her hand counts)
: IN J: 2 kisses between leia and han
: Alas though, a kiss is but a kiss. From the insestious to the fleeting
: greeting of a scoundrel there are a variety of kisses, none of them are
: really used as an expression of sexual passion. They mearly represent
: emotional bonds between individuals. This I would not call sexual
: imagery. This would more appropriately be classified as the use of a
: characters sexualtity to display his or her alligence. Interestingly
: enough all of our favorite heros all kissed leia, and no body else.
Who else should they kiss? Chewbacca? ;)
Actually, there aren't an awful lot of women in the trilogy (Aunt Beru
comes to mind) or in the Rebellion, that we see. I suppose that, now that
women are becoming fighter pilots and such, the prequels and sequels may
be politically corrected to reflect that. (Not that I mind; I'm just as
happy seeing a nameless woman go down in flames, as a nameless man, or
alien--maybe Porkins had a sister...)
--
Deanna Kramer (email: dmkr...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca)
********************************************************************
* "Don't blame me. I'm an interpreter. I'm not supposed to know a *
* power socket from a computer terminal." - C3PO *
********************************************************************
M. Sean McManus
suprised at the galactic digression that followed! I liked someone's idea
about the shuttels and the red guards. The symbolic value of the emperor
emerging from an upside down female chromosome surrounded by bloodied
innocence really intrigues me. Why were you all correcting the
terminology of someone who put forth a valid observation? Not one of the
responses I read even began to comment on the issue, which was incidently
not wether he meant to say Shuttle or Ywing.
I also though Id let you know someone sent me a message calling asking me
to fuck them, because I was a pervert and should get a life and jerk off.
It doesn't really mean much now, but I just though ID remind you all that
some really strange repressed individuals do read this group silently
posting obsenitys to others.
Anyway, do any of you have any more really good thoughts on imagery in
SW? I want to find your observations, not simply a "well, everyone
interprets images differently" response. Thank you.
Love,
nathan j burns
> I totally agree with you there. Also am I the only one who thinks
> that Y-wing ships are somehow femmine and mothery? Maybe it's
> because 1) In the films, Y-wings are often shown as mother wombs
transporting
> and disgorging piviotal characters from their belly, c.f. Darth Vader
being
> expanding wings and ejaculating guns seem incrediably masculine to me.
> 3) X-wings seem to be masculine cos they blow up, get burnt, it's a
rough
> life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
> (*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a
mother
> giving birth ....?
>
That is a great idea, I like it. But do you know what you are talking
about? Darth was never seen in a Y-wing, nor was the Emperor. I think
that you are thinking about and Imperial Shuttle. BTW, this was not seen
untill ROTJ.
Nate
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
| The strangest living boy you | njb...@mik.uky.edu |
| could ever wish to see...... | njb...@ukpr.uky.edu |
| that's me. | |
| -Gary Numan | write to mik address |
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jussi Hannula
> Jussi Hannula <hann...@cs.usafa.af.mil> was observed writing message
> <Pine.SUN.3.91.95042...@troi.usafa.af.mil> in rec.arts.sf.starwars:
> >True, except that Y-Wings are not fighters either, in the true meaning of
> >the word. Fighters are aircraft (in this case spacecraft) designed to
> >destroy other air[space]craft. Y-Wings are bombers with a limited
> >capability to defend themselves, so you can technically call them
> >fighter-bombers, but fighters they are not. Sorry about being so anal, I
> >just happen to hate Y-Wings and I think calling them fighters gives them
> >way too much credit :) X-Wings, on the other hand...
> I expect that the Y-wing was, at one time, a front-line fighter.
> However, this was probably on the order of a decade before Palpatine's
> rise to power. There's a long tradition of converting formerly
> top-of-the-line fighters into fighter-bombers. (Ex: F4U Corsairs
> serving as F/Bs in the Korean war.)
That's right. Another good example of similar transition is the F-4
Phantom II, which used to be the front line fighter for both the AF and
the Navy. But could it do that job now? I don't think so. It wouldn't
really stand a chance in a dogfight against any modern fighter, which in
my opinion means that you can't call it a fighter anymore. For the same
reason I wouldn't call the Y-Wing a fighter either -- even though it has
once been that, it simply couldn't perform that job against modern
starfighters.
ghost
> No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
> One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
> chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
> chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
Uh, not to nitpick and followups to alt.gender-bending.wtf... but the
female has two X chromosomes -- and the male one Y one X; that's why so
many diseases are x-linked; since the male has a screwy X the other Y
can't mask it with all the missing parts on the missing leg. This is in
comparison to the female, who has one back-up incase some parts are really
wacked out.
hth
jon
Christian A. Hull
They are one of the most heavilly armed type of fighters.
They are equipped with duel ion cannons, two proton torpedo launchers, plus
three blaster cannons. ( Not to mention the craft has two pilots!)
--
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for more information send e-mail to: in...@earthspirit.org
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Mangum Stephen D
: Greetings,
: In article <D7Kvo...@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, t...@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tom Lichy) writes:
: >2) My sad mind may have this
: > the wrong way round, but isn't the Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
: No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
: One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
: chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
: chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
NO! NO! NO! The X chromosome is the one that is in females.
A male has an X and a Y, but a female has two X chromosomes.
Where the hell did you people learn biology?
: > and thus the brave macho X-wings, with their strangely penile-like
: > expanding wings and ejaculating guns seem incrediably masculine to me.
: > 3) X-wings seem to be masculine cos they blow up, get burnt, it's a rough
: > life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
: > it's all plush fabrics and drapes
: Based on the X-Wing game, I'd have to agree that the Y-wing
: cockpit does appear more padded and roomier. However, the Y-wing
: actually has superior fire-power and carries more photon torpedoes
: than the X-Wing (in exchange for a lack of speed) so the analogy isn't
: perfect.
: >- the Emperor's Y-wing in ROTJ,
: > (*was* it a Y-wing?) with his blood-red body-guard - the blood of a mother
: > giving birth ....?
: I think that you're thinking of a shuttle. Shuttles look like
: an upside down Y when viewed from head-on. Y-Wings look like Y's when
: viewed from above.
Yes you are right on that one.
:
: > Is anyone with me?
: half-way.
More like one-third of the way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no knowledge that is not power. MK3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jussi Hannula
> What do you mean Y-wings don't qualify as fighters!!??
>
> They are one of the most heavilly armed type of fighters.
> They are equipped with duel ion cannons, two proton torpedo launchers, plus
> three blaster cannons. ( Not to mention the craft has two pilots!)
Did you read my definition of a fighter? I think you did (because you're
replying to the exact message where it was) but I guess you didn't really
understand it... because if you did, you would also understand that you
provide the exact answer to your question yourself. First of all, ion
cannons, torpedo launchers, and the second crew member (he/she is NOT
another pilot, but the ion cannon gunner) have nothing to do with
dogfighting (the job of a *fighter*). Secondly, you made a mistake with
the only asset of the Y-Wing that has everything to do with dogfighting,
the laser (or blaster) cannons -- there are only two of them, which is not
a whole lot compared to the rack of four of the best fighters of both
sides (X-Wing, TIE Interceptor). Also, you are not even considering some
other important characteristics of a fighter, namely manoeuverability and
speed, in which the Y-Wing is clearly inferior to all other Rebel (and
Imperial) fighters, with the exception of the B-Wing (it's even less
manoeuverable).
Source: The Rebel Alliance Sourcebook.
Eric Bouma
full of sexuall imagery. It is full of reallistic scenes and lines.
Jonas Ussing
>In article <165865062...@earthspirit.org> Christian A. Hull,
>Christia...@earthspirit.org writes:
>>They are one of the most heavilly armed type of fighters.
>>They are equipped with duel ion cannons, two proton torpedo launchers, plus
>>three blaster cannons. ( Not to mention the craft has two pilots!)
> Actually, this is the description of a B-wing
Where is the second B-wing pilot?
>, but you are still right
>about the heavily armed part. The Y-wing(I believe) has only two lasers,
>not three, and only one pilot.
I dont know much about the technical details, but looking at the y-wing's shape
and size, it could hold several pilots, which doesnt seem to be the case with
the B-wing.
--
Jonas U, du...@diku.dk
"I'll kill that cat..."
Jussi Hannula
> I dont know much about the technical details, but looking at the
> y-wing's shape
> and size, it could hold several pilots, which doesnt seem to be the case with
> the B-wing.
I already said this but... no Y-Wing model has two pilots. However, the
standard Y-Wing has an ion cannon gunner in addition to the pilot. Some
other models have only the pilot and the ion cannon is fixed.
Erik Christensen
Christia...@earthspirit.org writes:
>They are one of the most heavilly armed type of fighters.
>They are equipped with duel ion cannons, two proton torpedo launchers, plus
>three blaster cannons. ( Not to mention the craft has two pilots!)
Actually, this is the description of a B-wing, but you are still right
Simon Whitaker
>In article <7987543...@ksmith.com> JOSH NIMOCKS wrote:
>>Mangum (tjma...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>there appears to be only two women in the entire universe,
>>Leia and Mon Montha...but that's another story....
>>
>You forgot the third woman with a sizable chunk of dialog in the Star
>Wars universe: Aunt Beru :-)
>--
>Christopher A. Wolf <ch...@warped.com>
And the "Standby Ion control. Fire." woman.
Simon.
:w
:q
:q
Doh!
>NeXTmail, MIME, PGP accepted (finger me for PGP public key)
Simon H. Lee
>think, if you look closely, you'll find that Y-wings kick butt. They are
>NOT the ships you fly in X-wing.
>For one, movie Y-wings are fast.
>For two, the kill ratio is quite high.
>Got a third?
Um, there was only one Y-wing kill in ROTJ, if that's what you're referring
to. Also, the big scraggly group of fighters in ROTJ wasn't going all that
quick.
Oh well, I'm rambling...
--
_________________________ALL DONE! BYE BYE!_________________________
| __ |
| / \* |
| \__ _ _ _ _ "Daca sint gresit, vreau sa stiu." |
| \|| | |/ \| \ |
| \__/|| | |\_/| | |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
alan wertsching
no matter what the film is there must be some sexual
edge to it, even Disney films. It simply is unavoidable
but in the case of wonderful Star Wars trilogy I can't
help but believe any of the mentioned scenes were intentional.
ANH has one scene with the trash compactor that is simply
hilarious if viewed with a sexual slant. Paraphasing Han
' GET ON TOP OF IT', Leia's response ' I CAN'T!', ' LET ME
TRY TO WEDGE IT.'
Harrison Ford grabs Carrie Fischer's breast in that scene so
they must have also seen the humor in the lines they read.
You can tell the actors were on some level aware of the
possible interpretations some scenes had. The very last
scene in ROTJ with the group picture my girlfriend insists that
Mark Hamill is grabbing Carrie Fischer's ass and the both of
them are on the verge of cracking up.
To those repressed types if the actors could have fun with
it so can we.
Alan...
Wade Harshman
Glenn Saunders
the Y-wing vs. combat techniques with fixed guns (most others).
A Y-wing need not be maneuverable to acheive kills, and that gun is not
only offensive, but defensive, as it can wipe out attacking TIEs even
coming from the rear.
The Y-wing has a bad reputation solely due to the X-wing game not
presenting a 2-player option, thus NULLIFYING the advantage of a
free-moving cannon.
If you ever play the game Star Lords in the arcade, that game can be
played alone or with a gunner. With a gunner, the game is amazingly more
playable. It makes a huge difference.
Christian Norris Harrison
>On 26 Apr 1995, Taki Kogoma wrote:
>> Jussi Hannula <hann...@cs.usafa.af.mil> was observed writing message
>> <Pine.SUN.3.91.95042...@troi.usafa.af.mil> in rec.arts.sf.starwars:
>> >True, except that Y-Wings are not fighters either, in the true meaning of
>> >the word. Fighters are aircraft (in this case spacecraft) designed to
>> >destroy other air[space]craft. Y-Wings are bombers with a limited
>> >capability to defend themselves, so you can technically call them
>> >fighter-bombers, but fighters they are not. Sorry about being so anal, I
>> >just happen to hate Y-Wings and I think calling them fighters gives them
>> >way too much credit :) X-Wings, on the other hand...
>> I expect that the Y-wing was, at one time, a front-line fighter.
>> However, this was probably on the order of a decade before Palpatine's
>> rise to power. There's a long tradition of converting formerly
>> top-of-the-line fighters into fighter-bombers. (Ex: F4U Corsairs
>> serving as F/Bs in the Korean war.)
>That's right. Another good example of similar transition is the F-4
>Phantom II, which used to be the front line fighter for both the AF and
>the Navy. But could it do that job now? I don't think so. It wouldn't
>really stand a chance in a dogfight against any modern fighter, which in
>my opinion means that you can't call it a fighter anymore. For the same
>reason I wouldn't call the Y-Wing a fighter either -- even though it has
>once been that, it simply couldn't perform that job against modern
>starfighters.
>
> | _ | \_____/ oo__ _ _ __oo / _ \
> |=(_)=| __ | __ """--,,,_(_)_--_(_)_,,,--""" / _ _ \ |-=(_)=-|
> | | \-(_)-/ _>_[____]_<_ |=(_)(_)=| \ /
> \ / ___--""" (_)\__/(_) """--___ \ " /
> / \ oo"" ""oo -SpAce-
> Never tell me the odds!!!
(I just couldn't delete this great .sig)
Hey just becouse you expect the best from the USAF and the Navy that doesn't
mean that some other country wouldn't love a few f-4 in their AF. after all
isn't that what the rebelion is? a small group fighting the big bad
imperials.
later
Chris
Marco
> : No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
> : One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
> : chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
> : chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
*gasp*choke*
WHAAAAAT?????
> NO! NO! NO! The X chromosome is the one that is in females.
> A male has an X and a Y, but a female has two X chromosomes.
> Where the hell did you people learn biology?
Thank you. The Y chromosome is the male chromosome. You can have as
many X chromosomes as you want but all it takes is one little Y to turn
you into a guy. Single, double, triple, or quadruple X is a female. But
if you have quadruple X, single Y you are male (this is really, REALLY
rare). People with multiple Y's are also male, except for those with
double Y and no X who are dead.
> : > and thus the brave macho X-wings, with their strangely penile-like
> : > expanding wings and ejaculating guns seem incrediably masculine to me.
> : > 3) X-wings seem to be masculine cos they blow up, get burnt, it's a rough
> : > life in an X-wing, but from what we see of the interiors of Y-wings,
> : > it's all plush fabrics and drapes
Plush fabrics and drapes? When's the last time you saw the movies? What
about the Playboy centerfolds posted all over the interiors?
> : Based on the X-Wing game, I'd have to agree that the Y-wing
> : cockpit does appear more padded and roomier. However, the Y-wing
> : actually has superior fire-power and carries more photon torpedoes
> : than the X-Wing (in exchange for a lack of speed) so the analogy isn't
> : perfect.
Jeez, I don't believe this. Take a B-52 and compare it to an F-14.
B-52's are huge, their cockpits likewise, because they were designed to
be bombers. The pilots can stretch in there and chill out. They aren't
going to do any dogfighting and fancy maneuvers. They just fly to their
targets, drop their bombs and turn around. F-14's are designed to go
chasing other planes.
Similarly, the Y-wings were very sturdy, loaded with lots of torpedoes,
were the logical first choice for a torpedo run in a narrow trench where
maneuverability wasn't going to count for anything. X-wings were quick
and maneuverable, good for escorting the Y-wings, shooting up fighters,
buzzing by turbolaser turrets, and otherwise keeping the imperials busy.
But when the Y-wings failed, the X-wings had to sort of improvise.
As for the "penis-like" guns on the X-wings: this is a silly discussion,
because as a friend of mine used to say.....
ANYTHING LONGER THAN IT IS WIDE IS PHALLIC!!!!!
Now please grow up.
Marco.
Wade Harshman
> to. Also, the big scraggly group of fighters in ROTJ wasn't going all that
> quick.
Hmmm, I'll have to watch the movies again to see what you're talking
about. I DO know that in ANH, the X-wings move to attack speed and not a
single Y-wing gets left behind.
> Oh well, I'm rambling...
Ah, keep rambling.
Mangum
>Marco.
gee marco, your so.....verbal. ;) anyway, the argument on why they
used X and Y is totally inane. think about the alphabet. only a few
letters are symetricial enough to look like a ship of any kind. X and
Y are two that work, while a R craft would look pretty silly, as well
as unstable. marco is right, and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
(although light sabes might warrent another discussion althogether)
--
Jeanne Mangum...tjmangum@ix.netcom.com...AuntT...@aol.com
The door to your cage is open
All you have to do is walk out...if you dare. George Lucas
Simon H. Lee
>gee marco, your so.....verbal. ;) anyway, the argument on why they
>used X and Y is totally inane. think about the alphabet. only a few
>letters are symetricial enough to look like a ship of any kind. X and
>Y are two that work, while a R craft would look pretty silly, as well
>as unstable. marco is right, and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
>(although light sabes might warrent another discussion althogether)
>--
>Jeanne Mangum...tjmangum@ix.netcom.com...AuntT...@aol.com
Something that has plagued me for quite some time now...While I know the A-
wing and B-wing were meant to be another letter-paired set of fighters, I
don't ever see why the B-wing couldn't be called the T-wing. It seems so
much more logical. (But, then, according to my previous argument, the A-
wing would be kinda lonely out there.)
--
_________________________ALL DONE! BYE BYE!_________________________
| __ |
| / \* |
| \__ _ _ _ _ "Daca sunt gresit, te rog sa-mi spui." |
| \|| | |/ \| \ |
| \__/|| | |\_/| | |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
Simon H. Lee
>Ah, keep rambling.
I'm referring to the attack on the DS, when they go roaring down on the
surface. After a while, it seems that the Wedge's X-wing pulls out ahead,
then there's an A-wing, then the MF. Now, someone's not got the throttle to
the stops, because the A-wing is supposed to be ridiculously fast. Note,
though, that the Y-wings are further back throughout.
In ANH, though, they were sort of cruising in to target, then the XW pull
out ahead.
Steven Viscido
>
>Hmmm, I'll have to watch the movies again to see what you're talking
>about. I DO know that in ANH, the X-wings move to attack speed and not a
>single Y-wing gets left behind.
>
Not only that, but did you ever notice how xwings are able to keep up with Tie
Fighters, which in the game are much faster? We have to realize that XW and TF
are GAMES. As such, they kept as much of the flavor and feel of the SW universe
as they could, to put us in the cockpit of an Xwing fighter, which every kid who
grew up on star wars used to dream about (I sure did). However, they had to keep
the game BALANCED. think about the T/D. Is it really a challenge to FLY that
thing. It's faster than anything else, has more and better weapons, and shields
that are equal at least to an A-wing's. What's the point? It's MUCH more
challenging to fly a TF against Bwings or a YW against TIE interceptors. This is
because both TF and YW ships are LIMITED. There are some things they do well and
others they can't do well, and the pilot has to compensate for those
limitations. This makes the game balanced, and makes it possible to have fun
with different TYPES of fighters. After all, there is a different strategy you
use, and different ELS configuration, for EACH type of ship. For example, a
really good ELS combo to use against fast ships when you are in an XW is no power
to shields, full power to cannons. Just remember to transfer energy every once
in a while and you can keep up with even a T/A like this (your speed is 100). On
the other hand, that would not be worth doing in a YW because you STILL would
only be going 75 or so, so you may as well go 70 and keep the shields charged.
Thus, the game makers fixed things so that you would have to learn DIFFERENT ways
of piloting different ships. They did this EXTREMELY well in XW, and also for
the most part in TF except for TAs and TDs. The point is, for each thing they
gave a fighter, they took something away. They gave YWs Ion canons, and powerful
defenses, but took away speed and turn radius and maneuverability. They gave AWs
speed and agility, but took away offensive punch and defenses. They gave XWs
good offensiv punch and maneuverability, but took away a little speed and a
little defense. It balances quite well. Same thing when you compare, say, a TI
to a GUN. The GUN has great shields, but poor maneuverability and low speed.
The TI is very maneuverable and has great attack power, but one hit and you're a
goner.
This was done for the sake of BALANCE, not realism. First of all, the movies
have no eveidence for GUNS, TAs, or TDs. That's just all made up in the game.
Now WHY they would make up the TD in the first place is beyond me. Without, I
think TF would be a better game. At least the missions would be challenging from
the viewpoint of your ship not being able to do EVERYTHING well.
Actually, I think it would have been much more fun, in XW, if they had let you
PICK which ship you wanted to use in an attack. There were times when I was
flying an AW, having trouble, and I would mutter to the attacking 27 GUNs on my
screen, "Boy are you lucky I'm not flying a YW right now!" Of course, some
missions would be made too easy that way, but you would have to correctly
predict, using your tactical knowledge, which fighter to use (just like in TF you
get to choose which missile you get). That might be fun. It would just add a
different twist to the game.
SV
--
Steven Viscido
Biological Sciences, Univ. of South Carolina, Columbia SC 29208
Internet address: ste...@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu
Marco
> Something that has plagued me for quite some time now...While I know the A-
> wing and B-wing were meant to be another letter-paired set of fighters, I
> don't ever see why the B-wing couldn't be called the T-wing. It seems so
> much more logical. (But, then, according to my previous argument, the A-
> wing would be kinda lonely out there.)
I think the B-wing was supposed to stand for "blade" or something like
that. I'm not sure though. I was actually having a problem figuring out
why they didn't call A-wings H-wings. Then I looked at a model carefully
and figured out they wings are tilted slightly inwards, more like an A.
Marco.
Parallax
>
>
>
>>On Sun, 30 Apr 1995, Simon H. Lee wrote:
>
>I'm referring to the attack on the DS, when they go roaring down on the
>surface. After a while, it seems that the Wedge's X-wing pulls out ahead,
>then there's an A-wing, then the MF. Now, someone's not got the throttle to
>the stops, because the A-wing is supposed to be ridiculously fast. Note,
>though, that the Y-wings are further back throughout.
>
This has more to do with the pilot than the ship. I doubt any of them were
going full speed on the surface. Wedge, being the AWESOME pilot that he is
(but that's another thread), pulls ahead, followed by and A-wing, then the
MF, which is big and hence cannot go as fast.
>In ANH, though, they were sort of cruising in to target, then the XW pull
>out ahead.
>
This was because the X-wings were heading to the surface to draw the Imperials'
fire and dogfight, while the Y-wings were positioning to drop down into the
trench.
>--
> _________________________ALL DONE! BYE BYE!_________________________
>| __ |
>| / \* |
>| \__ _ _ _ _ "Daca sunt gresit, te rog sa-mi spui." |
>| \|| | |/ \| \ |
>| \__/|| | |\_/| | |
>|_____________________________________________________________________|
>
>
--
========================================================================
Matt Hilliard, Star Wars fan and MiSTie | "Kreg" on SWmud | Formerly:
"Red Three, Red Two, pull in!" -Wedge | "Setrion" on IRC | "Matt H."
NOTE: If you have a telnet site and would like a MUD, please email me!!
========================================================================
Marco
> Marco <mcav...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu> writes:
> >As for the "penis-like" guns on the X-wings: this is a silly discussion,
> >because as a friend of mine used to say.....
> >ANYTHING LONGER THAN IT IS WIDE IS PHALLIC!!!!!
> gee marco, your so.....verbal. ;) anyway, the argument on why they
Yes, I'm a little testy. These sorts of conversations irritate me.
> used X and Y is totally inane. think about the alphabet. only a few
> letters are symetricial enough to look like a ship of any kind. X and
> Y are two that work, while a R craft would look pretty silly, as well
> as unstable. marco is right, and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
> (although light sabes might warrent another discussion althogether)
Hmmm...been watching Spaceballs lately?
Marco.
Erik Christensen
ste...@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu writes:
>Now WHY they would make up the TD in the first place is beyond me. Without, I
>think TF would be a better game
Thank you!
You are the first person to agree with me(TIE Fighter playing person at
least). I had MUCH more fun in the earlier T/F missions, where you have
to worry about getting killed, rather than worrying about not destroying
all fifty Corvettes before they jump.
The Lonely Man
: In article <165865062...@earthspirit.org> Christian A. Hull,
nope... he was not describing the b-wing but i will say that he was
wring on a few points. as i said before in a previous posting, the
y-wing has about one and a half times the armor of an x-wing, *one* ion
cannon, *two* lasers, two proton torpedo launchers, and two concussion
missle launchers... not to mention the fact that it has a pilot *and* a
gunner (no starfighter has more than one pilot, that would be stupid)...
overall, the y-wing was the best attack fighter around. it was well
suited for this role and highly effective i used properly. the only
negative thing about the y-wing is the fact that it's slow, but that
couldn't be helped considering all the armor/weaponry that it has.
unfortunately, the only starfighter that it can be compared to in this
role is the tie bomber- a really sad excuse for an attack fighter (no
shields *or* armor and very little weaponry in comparison)
--
==============================================================================
No matter what you say, it never gets any better
No matter what you do, we never see any change
-Phil Collins (Colours)
==============================================================================
Nianque |
| There is no such thing as a good day,
| just one that isn't quite as bad as
(kgr...@goober.mbhs.edu) | all the rest.
(95kg...@vax.mbhs.edu) |
==============================================================================
Wade Harshman
> I'm referring to the attack on the DS, when they go roaring down on the
> surface. After a while, it seems that the Wedge's X-wing pulls out ahead,
> then there's an A-wing, then the MF. Now, someone's not got the throttle to
> the stops, because the A-wing is supposed to be ridiculously fast. Note,
> though, that the Y-wings are further back throughout.
You mean the second DS, then. Well, there wasn't exactly a lot of room
for the Y-wing to pass, either. I'm guessing he volunteered to head back
to the surface because- judging from the design- those things probably
aren't real manuverable, which makes them less than ideal for racing
through the tunnels of the DS.
> In ANH, though, they were sort of cruising in to target, then the XW pull
> out ahead.
Hmmm.... it looked to me like they were pretty much staying together. If
there IS a notable distinction between X and Y-wings, I would say it
would have to be manuverability, since the X's smaller engines are spread
out more evenly.
I also think that choosing the Y-wings for the first trench run is
significant. You don't send your slowest ships on suicide runs, no
matter how much of a tank it is.
Marco
> nope... he was not describing the b-wing but i will say that he was
> wring on a few points. as i said before in a previous posting, the
> y-wing has about one and a half times the armor of an x-wing, *one* ion
> cannon, *two* lasers, two proton torpedo launchers, and two concussion
> missle launchers... not to mention the fact that it has a pilot *and* a
> gunner (no starfighter has more than one pilot, that would be stupid)...
Just wondering where you got your info? I have the vehicle blue-prints
which are supposed to be faithful to the movies, and it looks like the
B-wing is a lot more heavily armed. I don't remember the specs, but I'll
look them up and post them tomorrow if you want.
Speaking of B-wings, I have come across a photo in that book on ROTJ
(which has the script, a whole bunch of sketches, as well as photos of
matte paintings and scenes - all three books in the series are a really
good investment). It shows a group of two or three B-wings in the
foreground flying away from a Star Destroyer that's blowing up in an
awesome explosion. The caption only says it's a still from the special
effects studio. I'm wondering if this scene was ever filmed in its
entirety and then cut out of the movie, or if they just produced the one
bit I saw and then decided to drop the whole idea before they got
further.
Marco.
Jussi Hannula
> In article <3o5bn7$c...@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu> Steven Viscido,
> ste...@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu writes:
> >Now WHY they would make up the TD in the first place is beyond me.
> >Without, I think TF would be a better game
> You are the first person to agree with me(TIE Fighter playing person at
> least).
Well, I've been saying it since about last August or so... However, I
could still deal with the T/D because it was at least sort of fun to fly
and fight with, even though the challenge was pretty limited. On the
other hand, the Missile Boat was waaaay beyond my comprehension. That
made me ask myself if I bought the game to fly and dogfight or to sit and
launch missiles at everything around me... for some reason I found the
latter type of task neither challenging nor fun.
> I had MUCH more fun in the earlier T/F missions, where you have
> to worry about getting killed, rather than worrying about not destroying
> all fifty Corvettes before they jump.
I didn't enjoy those that much either... I think it's pretty frustrating
if I get killed because of a stray laser shot, because it has nothing to
do with my skills (or lack thereof), and everything to do with luck. In
my opinion, a game is well balanced when it's hard, even frustrating at
first, but in the end you can quote Ben's "In my experience there's no
such thing as luck" if you've truly mastered the game. When flying
unshielded craft in T/F you can never say that, no matter how good you
are. X-Wing, on the other hand, is to me a good example of a well
balanced game. It's definitely challenging enough at first, but with some
talent and lots of practice it's *possible* to achieve the level when the
luck factor is eliminated to the point that you can quote Ben (with one
exception: a midspace collision in a furball with lots of GUNs is an
unforseeable threat even to a master). If there's anyone who can prove to
me they can say the same about flying the unshielded craft in TIE, I'll
buy them a beer...
Jussi Hannula
> but did you ever notice how xwings are able to keep up
> with Tie Fighters, which in the game are much faster?
Since when are T/F faster than X-Wings in any of the games?
-SpAce-
Simon H. Lee
>Speaking of B-wings, I have come across a photo in that book on ROTJ
>(which has the script, a whole bunch of sketches, as well as photos of
>matte paintings and scenes - all three books in the series are a really
>good investment). It shows a group of two or three B-wings in the
>foreground flying away from a Star Destroyer that's blowing up in an
>awesome explosion. The caption only says it's a still from the special
>effects studio. I'm wondering if this scene was ever filmed in its
>entirety and then cut out of the movie, or if they just produced the one
>bit I saw and then decided to drop the whole idea before they got
>further.
I've seen this shot blown up to ridiculous size (in one of the *really* olr
RPG books--rules or the orig. SB), and it doesn't seem to have nearly the
quality of a movie shot. It's probably a composite--a *lot* of the pictures
we associate with the movies are shots that have been put together from
other elements.
--
_________________________ALL DONE! BYE BYE!_________________________
| __ |
| / \* |
| \__ _ _ _ _ "Adevarul este undeva imprejur." |
| \|| | |/ \| \ |
| \__/|| | |\_/| | |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
Simon H. Lee
>I didn't enjoy those that much either... I think it's pretty frustrating
>if I get killed because of a stray laser shot, because it has nothing to
>do with my skills (or lack thereof), and everything to do with luck. In
>my opinion, a game is well balanced when it's hard, even frustrating at
>first, but in the end you can quote Ben's "In my experience there's no
>such thing as luck" if you've truly mastered the game. When flying
>unshielded craft in T/F you can never say that, no matter how good you
>are. X-Wing, on the other hand, is to me a good example of a well
>balanced game. It's definitely challenging enough at first, but with some
>talent and lots of practice it's *possible* to achieve the level when the
>luck factor is eliminated to the point that you can quote Ben (with one
>exception: a midspace collision in a furball with lots of GUNs is an
>unforseeable threat even to a master). If there's anyone who can prove to
>me they can say the same about flying the unshielded craft in TIE, I'll
>buy them a beer...
>
> | _ | \_____/ oo__ _ _ __oo / _ \
> |=(_)=| __ | __ """--,,,_(_)_--_(_)_,,,--""" / _ _ \ |-=(_)=-|
> | | \-(_)-/ _>_[____]_<_ |=(_)(_)=| \ /
> \ / ___--""" (_)\__/(_) """--___ \ " /
> / \ oo"" ""oo -SpAce-
> Never tell me the odds!!!
I agree with you about X-Wing. It was fun to learn. (And using a mouse
gave me a whole new degree of flight control once I worked out the kinks.)
There were hordes of usually inferior fighters, but piloted by some pretty
tough Imperials, and you didn't have any incredible advantages (Like the
Missile Boat). A-wings vs. 12 GUNs was always a challenge, including the
collision risk. There is also not the aforementioned "lucky shot and you're
toast" problem...I mean, the T/F "Suicide Sled" phenomenon really bugged me
in TF when I got hit by exploded XW or shuttle fragments, or I just happened
to get in the way of a capital ship turbolaser, or my wingman smoked me by
accident.
Now, if they stuck TIE's map, radio, resupply, and target anaysis features
in X-wing...
Marco
> first, but in the end you can quote Ben's "In my experience there's no
> such thing as luck" if you've truly mastered the game. When flying
> unshielded craft in T/F you can never say that, no matter how good you
> are. X-Wing, on the other hand, is to me a good example of a well
> balanced game. It's definitely challenging enough at first, but with some
> talent and lots of practice it's *possible* to achieve the level when the
> luck factor is eliminated to the point that you can quote Ben (with one
> exception: a midspace collision in a furball with lots of GUNs is an
> unforseeable threat even to a master). If there's anyone who can prove to
> me they can say the same about flying the unshielded craft in TIE, I'll
> buy them a beer...
I more or less agree with you, but you can still make a lot of you're own
luck even in a dinky TIE fighter. In fact, I think my favorite mission
in TIE is the very first TIE fighter training mission. That's the one
where you start by shooting some containers, then your platform sends
some unarmed Z-95 drones at you, and then some armed Z-95s in
progressively larger and larger waves, until at the end you are alone
against 12 Z-95's. And if you get past them, you get 12 X-wings. I
love that mission, and I've flown it more than all the others put
together, and I've gotten pretty good at dogfighting against ridiculous
odds in an unshielded TIE. Sure, every now and then I get unlucky, but
I've developed strategies that consistantly work. I used to think it was
impossible to complete all the bonus goals without cheating, but I don't
think so now. I still haven't managed to complete everything, but I've
gotten damn close (all the X-wings down except for 3 or 4).
I don't know. Do I deserve the beer?
Marco.
Wade Harshman
> >unforseeable threat even to a master). If there's anyone who can prove to
> >me they can say the same about flying the unshielded craft in TIE, I'll
> >buy them a beer...
I'll admit, it's a switch in styles. I think that the unsheilded TIE's
in the game are more true to the movies, though. I never saw any rebel
pilots taking hits because they could. Every rebel I saw get hit took
some serious damage.
But, for the sake of the beer, I'm usually not too worried about getting
hit in a TIE. Sure, I lost to the "Grant Maneuver" once or twice, but
for the mostpart, there wasn't too much in the game that you or I
couldn't handle in a TIE Fighter. I also noticed that your ship speed is
taken into account when the computer processes damage done (try it on one
of those training missions. Blow up a container at no speed, then again
at top speed, and look that the difference each shot makes). This makes
me think that NO ship is safe from kamikazee runs. Pass the beer.
Steven Viscido
>On 2 May 1995, Erik Christensen wrote:
>
>> You are the first person to agree with me(TIE Fighter playing person at
>> least).
>
>Well, I've been saying it since about last August or so... However, I
>could still deal with the T/D because it was at least sort of fun to fly
>and fight with, even though the challenge was pretty limited.
I always found the lack of challenge annoying, though. There are many who like
the "enter" key as a match speed function. However, I think trying to match
speeds manually was part of the Xwing challenge. Yeah, it's a more
"sophisticated" way of flying a fighter craft, and presumably the technology
should be there in SW to match speeds at the press of a button. But in a TD
you are soooo fast, that you can match speeds with anything else without
bothering to change your recharge settings. That makes it too easy. yeah, at
first I liked it that you could match speeds, but once you're in a TD, it makes
it too easy.
> On the
>other hand, the Missile Boat was waaaay beyond my comprehension. That
>made me ask myself if I bought the game to fly and dogfight or to sit and
>launch missiles at everything around me... for some reason I found the
>latter type of task neither challenging nor fun.
Not only that, but what about being able to suck power out of the guns to go at
250 or so MGLT? Now THAT's really ridiculous. Again, like matching speeds,
tractor beams, and the missile ship itself, as novelties I thought all of these
things were cool, but they just make it easier to be a pilot. You need less
skill. Ironically, by the time you get them, you have so much skill (usually)
that you don't NEED them. You're right though, the missile boat is extremely
excessive.
On missions with unshielded TIEs:
>
>I didn't enjoy those that much either... I think it's pretty frustrating
>if I get killed because of a stray laser shot, because it has nothing to
>do with my skills (or lack thereof), and everything to do with luck.
Well... yes and no. MOST of the time when you get hit in TF it's by someone
chasing you. The main fright I used to get was when non-wingmen who were on my
side (from another squadron) would decide to start firing at a guy whose tail I
was on. You're more likely to be blown up by your own side in a situation like
that. Now in an Awing or other shielded craft, I would ignore it, let the dope
hit me a few times, blow away the guy we are both chasing, and that's the end
of it. But in a TF, you're screwed... On the other hand, you have to be MUCH
more willing to react to enemy fire when you are in a TF (most of the time, in
a shielded craft, I ignore it until I finish with whoever I am on first, and
then turn on the guy whose been chasing me). In a TF, you have got to start
reacting immediately. I didn't mind this, because it put us in the shoes of
those guys we blew up so easily in the first game. I actually thought the GUN
was the most balanced fighter in TF. Not too strong or fast, but not too weak
either.
>my opinion, a game is well balanced when it's hard, even frustrating at
>first, but in the end you can quote Ben's "In my experience there's no
>such thing as luck" if you've truly mastered the game. When flying
>unshielded craft in T/F you can never say that, no matter how good you
>are. X-Wing, on the other hand, is to me a good example of a well
>balanced game. It's definitely challenging enough at first, but with some
>talent and lots of practice it's *possible* to achieve the level when the
>luck factor is eliminated
Yeah, you get no argument from me here. I think Xwing was a better game all
the way around. There are a few minor features of TF that represent
improvements, such as the automatic backup. I was always more of a cowboy in
TF becuase I knew if I went too far and was blown up, I didn't lose all of
those points... I had an automatic backup. And the "enter" key as a speed
match, while bad in a very fast ship as mentioned above, would be OK in YWs or
BWs because to really match the speed of something like a TA you would still
have to play with your ELS, which requires at least SOME thinking and
coordination. I also liked being able to target specific things on ships, and
I prefer the faster-moving ion canon blasts. And the idea of actually telling
us what percentage of shields, hull and systems are left, is a great idea. But
other than those things, I think XW is the better game. I much preferred
playing that.
John Massaglia
Marco <mcav...@umabnet.ab.umd.edu> wrote:
>
> I think the B-wing was supposed to stand for "blade" or something like
> that. I'm not sure though. I was actually having a problem figuring out
> why they didn't call A-wings H-wings. Then I looked at a model carefully
> and figured out they wings are tilted slightly inwards, more like an A.
>
Are you sure you're not talking about Y-wings? A wings look a lot more
like an A than any other letter. Y-wings on the other hand do look kind
of like an H with a thing coming out of the top.
John Massaglia Workers of the World: Relax!
John_Ma...@byu.edu
mas...@spock.et.byu.edu http://spock.et.byu.edu/~massagj/index.html
finger mas...@spock.et.byu.edu for public key.
GO d-- H- s:- !g p2 au a- w+ v+ C++$ UH P+ L 3 E? N++ K++ W--- M++ V
-po+ Y+ t+ 5- j++ R- G' tv b+ D B-- e+ u* h--- f r+++ !n y?
Shane Chung
: No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
: One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
: chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
: chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
Um, sorry. I know this is a little off topic and everything but ah, two
X chromosomes are what females have and an X and a Y are what males
have. Just, nit-picking, but still...
Shogun.
Raul Fernandez
(Scott Gastineau) wrote:
<<much snip>>
> >2) My sad mind may have this
> > the wrong way round, but isn't the Y-chromosome the female chromosome,
>
> No, you've got this right. Two Y chromosomes create a female.
> One Y chromosome and one X chromosome create a male. Thus, the Y
> chromosome is typically considered the female chromosome and the X
> chromosome is typically considered the male chromosome.
Sorry kids, women are XX, men are XY.
Double Y gets you aggressive psychopaths.
Double D gets you more club bookings
--
\ / /
/ \ /
\ / |
Douglas McClellan Jr.
writes:
>
>
>>I didn't enjoy those that much either... I think it's pretty
frustrating
>>if I get killed because of a stray laser shot, because it has nothing
to
>>do with my skills (or lack thereof), and everything to do with luck.
>>my opinion, a game is well balanced when it's hard, even frustrating
at
>>first, but in the end you can quote Ben's "In my experience there's
no
>>such thing as luck" if you've truly mastered the game. When flying
>>unshielded craft in T/F you can never say that, no matter how good
you
>>are. X-Wing, on the other hand, is to me a good example of a well
>>balanced game. It's definitely challenging enough at first, but with
some
>>talent and lots of practice it's *possible* to achieve the level when
the
one
>>exception: a midspace collision in a furball with lots of GUNs is an
prove to
>>me they can say the same about flying the unshielded craft in TIE,
I'll
>>buy them a beer...
>>
I agree with both of you to a degree. I have been playing TIE since it
came out and I think I am proficient in any of the Imperial craft. I
also have to admit I don't have a life and my girlfriend is no longer
amused so she is gone.<G> But I am a damn good pilot. I will be showing
off that talent at Dragon Con this year in Atlanta. So the moral of the
story is keep your girlfriend and don't take any of this shit too
seriously.
--Doug
Doug...@ix.netcom.com
Andrew J. Irwin
: On 27 Apr 1995, Christian A. Hull wrote:
:
: > What do you mean Y-wings don't qualify as fighters!!??
: >
: > They are equipped with duel ion cannons, two proton torpedo launchers, plus
: > three blaster cannons. ( Not to mention the craft has two pilots!)
:
: replying to the exact message where it was) but I guess you didn't really
: understand it... because if you did, you would also understand that you
: provide the exact answer to your question yourself. First of all, ion
: cannons, torpedo launchers, and the second crew member (he/she is NOT
: another pilot, but the ion cannon gunner) have nothing to do with
: dogfighting (the job of a *fighter*). Secondly, you made a mistake with
: the only asset of the Y-Wing that has everything to do with dogfighting,
: the laser (or blaster) cannons -- there are only two of them, which is not
: a whole lot compared to the rack of four of the best fighters of both
: sides (X-Wing, TIE Interceptor). Also, you are not even considering some
: other important characteristics of a fighter, namely manoeuverability and
: speed, in which the Y-Wing is clearly inferior to all other Rebel (and
: Imperial) fighters, with the exception of the B-Wing (it's even less
: manoeuverable).
:
: Source: Rebel Alliance Sourcebook
First off, the Y-wing does the same job as the X-wing... pure
space superiority. Lasers and ions for the fighters, and proton
launchers for the Big Nasties(tm). The Y-wing has more armour and
shielding than an X-wing, and is a little slower, with half the long
range firepower, but at close ranges the Y-wings Ion Cannons more than
make up for the two lasers, and allow the possibility of merely
neutralizing enemy vessels without destroying them. If your definition
of a fighter is pure fighter vs. fighter, than the only ship the Alliance
has that really fits the bill is the A-wing. Proton launchers are NOT
anti-fighter weapons...
-Draco
Marco
> Sorry kids, women are XX, men are XY.
Yup.
> Double Y gets you aggressive psychopaths.
That's probably a myth. XYY is actually one of the more common
chromosome abnormalities, and there's plenty of normal, well adjusted
males walking around with a double Y. There's also plenty of aggressive
psychopaths running around without a double Y. The only difference in
males with the double Y is that they generally *seem* to have an above
average height. But the Y chromosome promoting aggressive behavior has
yet to be demonstrated.
Don't believe all the BS propagated by an ignorant, sensationalistic
media that took the results of ONE badly done, uncontrolled scientific
study and ran amok.
> Double D gets you more club bookings
Can't argue with that.
Marco.
* SCREEEECH! * HOOONK! * "you ASSHOLE!!!!! oh...oops..."
- Me, to a U.S. senator
Sosmooth
Carry some big ordananze, and even got a turret. Pretty good, reliable,
ships. Not as fancy as a x-wing but they serve their purpose well.
Sosmooth
Sosmooth
and dont get me wrong, i love y-wings too..just think X-wings are a better
fighter)
Sosmooth
around the corner to dodge the enemy. The ion cannon helps but you NEED
speed and lots of maneuverability (Thats why i think a Starfury from
babylon 5 could kill any StarWars fighter..course its made to fly in real
space like a real spaceship so it can do all sorts of neat turns and
spins)
Y-wings are great old ships that serve their purpose but they aint the
best dogfighters in the galaxy .. usable but an X-wing is preferred byme
at least (oh, and i aint talking about in that computer game)
Sosmooth
cannon sittin on the turret. So they got Two Lasers and 2 ions.
Jussi Hannula
> First off, the Y-wing does the same job as the X-wing... pure
> space superiority. Lasers and ions for the fighters, and proton
> launchers for the Big Nasties(tm).
The Y-Wing is a space superiority fighter??? I guess you have no clue
what the term space superiority means, do you? FYI, it means taking out
the enemy fighters so that your own craft can do their missions without
the fear of interception. That is the X-Wing's primary job. However, it
has additionally some attack capability in the form of proton torpedos,
but that has nothing to do with its space superiority mission -- it's just
like real life fighters such as the F-16, F/A-18, F-15E can all perform
attack missions in addition to being good dogfighters. The Y-Wing has
nothing to do with space superiority. Period.
> If your definition
> of a fighter is pure fighter vs. fighter, than the only ship the Alliance
> has that really fits the bill is the A-wing.
Nope. The A-Wing is an interceptor, designed to knock out attacking enemy
bombers far away from their targets before they get to launch their
warheads -- hence the highest speed and concussion missile load. It's not
as good in fighter vs. fighter combat, at least if there are several tough
enemies around. Although more maneuverable than the X-Wing, its poor
fire-power and weak shields make it a less preferable dogfighter. Its
higher speed is not a real factor in dogfighting, but makes it better in
interception missions.
> Proton launchers are NOT anti-fighter weapons...
You tell me...
LIM KENNETH IGNATIUS
: > why they didn't call A-wings H-wings. Then I looked at a model carefully
: >
: Are you sure you're not talking about Y-wings? A wings look a lot more
: like an A than any other letter. Y-wings on the other hand do look kind
: of like an H with a thing coming out of the top.
Nononono.. look at it from the back.. up the tailpipes, those vertical
fins tilt in at the top. In actual fact.. only the X and B wings have
'wings' at all. The Y- has engine pods, the A- has nothing. I've been
wondering about an O-wing. a wrap-around armoured shield housing engines
and multiple missile bays, maybe ion cannons and a central control pod
with lots of lasers. Sort of like a hollow Last Starfighter. judging from
the lack of rear windows in any TIE ship and all but the A-wing (never
mind about the vestigial glass in the X- and Y-) 'check six' does not
seem to be a major consideration in SW.
Ken Lim
NoBrainJoe
itself.
The entire thing is a wing in the shape of an "A"
Jay Bardhan
>Subject: Sexual imagery in SW
>From: av...@vax.rhodes.edu
>Date: 24 Apr 95 03:05:07 -0500
>I know this may be a bit far fetched, but I wanted to see waht
>the rest of you think of this. The final scene of Star Wars
>seems to have a lot of sexual imagery.
Yup, its pretty far fetched, at least IMHO:)
>X-wings fly into the trench and aim their blasts into the hole.
>Some of the shots of the pilots have them rocking up and down
>as if having sex.
That's intentional, I think. The fighters are being buffeted about by the
amount of flak and the pilots are weaving their ships about to avoid it.
>Lines like "Look at the size of that thing"
>and "getting closer, getting closer" sound sexual as well.
Ah hah! This part is the only place where it _might_ be sexually construed.
But check out many other fighter movies..ie "Im right on him!" might be
interpreted the same way, no?
>AfteAfter the climax (no pun intended) where the Death Star
>explodes, Luke is seen rocking up and down in a relieved,
>"wow that was good sex" kind of way. Do you guys think these
>similarities were intentional?
ummm... uhh... my explanation for his bobbing up and down is just sheer relief.
after all, he was concentrating very hard, and it might also have to do with
his first _real_ use of the Force being very exhilirating.
As to whether or not the above innuendos were intentional.. maybe, maybe not.
Maybe it had to do with an comparison of Luke the young man wanting to be
somebody to Luke the sex starved youth wanting to score;)
just my $.02
Jay Bardhan
jbar...@demon.ceh.servtech.com
David Smith
: just my $.02
: Jay Bardhan
: jbar...@demon.ceh.servtech.com
--
You should lay off the XTC while watching Star Wars. Its all in the
eye of the beholder.
but gosh, having sex while watching Star Wars does blow all else
away....
M. Sean McManus
what I think about this. And if by some chance you don't and want to
know, email me and we can talk about the true sexuality of Star Wars.
_____________________________MSM 5373___________________________________
Can you feel this?
What's that buzzing?
Are you now, or have you ever been?
Move slowly...
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