Toasting Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru - WHY?
DARYL GRAHAM FOWLIE
For some reason, I always felt that the one scene where there is a 'close
up' of the smoldering remains of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru (ie- their
skeletons) did not belong in the movie. Sure, ANH starts out with a
massacer of Rebel troops on the Blockade Runner, but nothing is so graphic.
As for the argument that the skeleton scene is to show that Luke has
nothing left on his home planet, there is wider view of all the carnage
just before the close up.
It is a family movie, and I remember not liking the scene in the theaters
as a 6 year old.
Any better reasons to put the scene in??
daryl
Peter Ferguson
>daryl
To be realistic
To show that his Uncle & Aunt are dead
Also the movie was not for kids, If AA was out then (was it ? I don't think
so), then I'm sure it would've been....
Could you imagine luke coming up to his farm, and seeing it on fire, and then
Looking away and then leave... Then we'd have a thread in this newsgroup
called
"What happend to Owen and Beru ?"
People would say their dead, others would say their captured.. And some would
just say "Gonk" .... It'd be a real mess...
I liked that scene, it also showed that this is no pansy "People die, but we
don't care because we don't see them die" movie.
I feel that Star Wars showed the result of death on people better then most
movies today, you can see Arnold, or Van Damme, or Sly.. or any of those guys
kill a million Meanies.. and it won't phase you.. .You'll laugh at it.. But
when you see Luke see his parents dead, see Obi-Wan get cut down, and see his
friends die over the Death Star... You see the effects it has on Luke..
Well thats my opinion anyways... Maybe you guys don't see this, but I do...
(Though when I was a Kid, my friend and I did laugh when we say Porkins
Die... hey it was funny to two 8 year old kids...)
Josh J Mace
B
I think thaAt the scene is great. It serves to reinforce the terrible
things thaat the Empire can do. After seeing the opening battle, we
are kinda awstruck by the Imperials. They haave cool uniforms, and
we are taken aback by their looks. Even in the opening scene we don't
grasp the sheer terror that should suround the Empire. This is a scene
where we say jeez man, the Empire is really scum. It may strike a chord
in many people, but that is the desired reaction.
In short, we are meant to hate the Empire after that scene, much
in the same way that the people who have to live with its terror
do.
a cool leader
StarWars1
Mace) writes:
Well, it also is PARENTAL GUIDANCE.. :) Not trying to flame, but SW is to
me very family-like movie, however, it's not rated "G". :) And my
response sucks, yes. But the previous poster said it all! Showed us how
"bad" the bad guys really were. Besides, that skeletal remains shot is
NOTHING compared to what we see on National TV nowadays...
Rocky
DuaneVP
dgfo...@cs-acad-lan.Lakeheadu.Ca (DARYL GRAHAM FOWLIE) writes:
Previous posts have really given all the reasons you should need but I
have a couple of things to mention. Whether you were 6 or 36 you weren't
supposed to like this scene, you were supposed to be repulsed and think
bad thoughts about the Empire (as mentioned). Yet you didn't mention the
bloody arm on the floor of the cantina only a few minutes further along in
the film. Did that make you feel the same way?
I am rather surprised you had such a strong reaction to such a BRIEF
shot and not from very close up. Only in that one shot can you actually
see the skeletons and then its really only long enough for you to
recognize what they are (or were). No lingering extreme closeups of blood
dripping or empty eye sockets or anything like that. Even for the 1970's
it was pretty mild as gore might be measured.
One last point: (and this is my primary reason for posting) I intend
no flame to you personally here, but it really annoys me when people are
given perfectly adequate warning about a movies content via the ratings
system and then complain about the effect on young children after the
fact. IMHO the only blame is that of the parents for not caring enough
about their children to find out more about a movie before letting them
see it.
This was really brought home to me when Jurrasic Park premiered.
There was a great deal of talk at the time about whether the terror and
violence were too much for young children. On one local talk radio show I
heard the host say that anyone who took children to see the movie did not
deserve to be parents and proceeded to hang up on any caller who tried to
make a point to the contrary. Any adequate review of a film nowadays will
state WHY a movie has a particular rating and even premium cable services
like HBO and Showtime give a brief list along with the rating. "graphic
violence", "sexual situations", "bathroom humor", "rape scene" are typical
ones that I've seen (at least in printed reviews) and should be more than
enough for any parent to base a decision on. If any doubt remains then
parents should simply wait until they can get more information from
someone who has seen it or see it themselves before they let their
children see it.
Sorry if I'm raving, I didn't really mean to. Just irritates me is
all.
Downtime
kfis...@marcie.wellesley.edu
but think about it, that's probably the most graphic thing in the whole
trilogy. They also could have panned the shot up closer, and made it even
worse. I haven't seen the movie on the big screen (I was too young to see
ANH in the theatres), but I remember seeing more gruesome things than that
around age six. I suppose they could have kept the camera close up from being
quite so close, but it could be worse.
My question is, how does Ben hide the knowledge of his own brother dying at the
hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a tremor in the
Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does everyone think?
- Karen
Josh J Mace
Thanks...I'm glad that you agreed with me.
If you are watching anything on TV these days, and the nicest scene in the
show is better than the skeleton scene in ANH, then you can count yourself
lucky.
Seeing the charred skeletons of Owen and Beru Lars should not offend anyone
who watches so much as cartoons these days.
-jjmace
DuaneVP
(Peter Ferguson) writes:
>Well thats my opinion anyways... Maybe you guys don't see this, but I
do...
>(Though when I was a Kid, my friend and I did laugh when we say Porkins
>Die... hey it was funny to two 8 year old kids...)
That's odd, me and my friends alway laugh when 3PO bites it in ESB.
"I'm terribly sorry! I don't mean to intrude. No, no, please don't get
up! NO!"
Gets me every time.
Downtime
DuaneVP
kfis...@marcie.wellesley.edu writes:
>My question is, how does Ben hide the knowledge of his own brother dying
at >the hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a
tremor in >the Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does
everyone think?
Owen wasn't Ben's brother he was Anakin/Darth Vaders brother!
"Luke's just not a farmer Owen. He has too much of his father in him."
"That's what I'm afraid of."
"I tried to give this to you once but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He
was afraid you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic
crusade like your father did."
Don't know of anywhere that it says Ben and Owen are relatives.
Downtime
Beth Wilson
>
>
>For some reason, I always felt that the one scene where there is a 'close
>up' of the smoldering remains of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru (ie- their
>skeletons) did not belong in the movie. Sure, ANH starts out with a
>massacer of Rebel troops on the Blockade Runner, but nothing is so graphic.
>As for the argument that the skeleton scene is to show that Luke has
>nothing left on his home planet, there is wider view of all the carnage
>just before the close up.
>
>It is a family movie, and I remember not liking the scene in the theaters
>as a 6 year old.
>
>Any better reasons to put the scene in??
>
>daryl
>
I read somewhere, sorry I can't remember where, that the close-up of the corpses
and the shot of the bloody arm in the Cantina Scene were added to try and keep the
film from getting a "G" rating. A "G" rating was thought to consign a movie to
certain box office death!
ttyl - Beth
--
邢 唷�
Scott David Sherris
: My question is, how does Ben hide the knowledge of his own brother dying at the
: hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a tremor in the
: Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does everyone think?
: - Karen
When did Ben hide Owen's death? He never says otherwise. When he
told luke "It's too dangerous" he had no idea whether stormtroopers would
still be there. I'm confused. =0
--
Scott David Sherris |
Georgia Institute of Technology |
FDC Vice President of Imagineering |
gt5...@prism.gatech.edu |
James McGowan
> >My question is, how does Ben hide the knowledge of his own brother dying
> at >the hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a
> tremor in >the Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does
> everyone think?
>
> Owen wasn't Ben's brother he was Anakin/Darth Vaders brother!
>
> "Luke's just not a farmer Owen. He has too much of his father in him."
> "That's what I'm afraid of."
>
> "I tried to give this to you once but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He
> was afraid you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic
> crusade like your father did."
>
> Don't know of anywhere that it says Ben and Owen are relatives.
>
According to some of the books (which are all BS until Lucas says so) Owen
is actually Ben's brother (not Anakin's) What i want to know is - if they
didn't
want Luke to follow his fathers footsteps, why didn't they change his name
from Skywalker?
JAMES.
------------------------------------------------------------------
James McGowan BT LABS Ipswich, Suffolk, United Kingdom
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Collin Yeoh
>From: gt5...@prism.gatech.edu (Scott David Sherris)
>Subject: Re: Toasting Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru - WHY?
>Date: 7 Oct 1994 23:01:46 -0400
>kfis...@marcie.wellesley.edu wrote:
>: My question is, how does Ben hide the knowledge of his own brother dying at the
>: hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a tremor in the
>: Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does everyone think?
> When did Ben hide Owen's death? He never says otherwise. When he
>told luke "It's too dangerous" he had no idea whether stormtroopers would
>still be there. I'm confused. =0
What she meant was how come Ben's so cool about his brother and sister in-law
biting the dust. That's something that's always bothered me. I choose not to
accept the fact that Owen was Ben's brother, no matter what the novel or
script says. The *movie* never said it, take note.
Something related that has also always bothered me - *Luke's* reaction to
Owen's and Beru's death. He's lived with them all his life. They're all the
family he has. When they die, I think Luke should at least have shed a few
tears. But neither the movie or the novel (radio drama?) goes very far into
this.
ML Hewitt
scene it is - it is v. effective at severing Luke's final link with his
Tatooine life - the Empire killed his family - we see what he sees. Also
that innocents do get killed. Injustice, revenge, etc and so on. I do not
regard it as an unecessary up-the-age-rating-scene but as an integral
catalyst to the following events. Errrrrrrrrr I'm starting an essay now
aren't I ? bandwith, succintness and all that.....
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CINDY
>
>Something related that has also always bothered me - *Luke's* reaction to
>Owen's and Beru's death. He's lived with them all his life. They're all the
>family he has. When they die, I think Luke should at least have shed a few
>tears. But neither the movie or the novel (radio drama?) goes very far into
>this.
Well, lots of people react to death without tears. I thought the pained look
on his face, and his subsequent decision to throw himself into the Rebellion
was the only way he knew how to deal with it. The way I see it, the slaughter
of his aunt and uncle was the catalyst for everything he did subsequently.
So actually, if the Imperial Stormtroopers hadn't killed them, Luke
wouldn't have been around to mess up their plans!
In comparison, Leia also shed no tears (at least on screen) when her
entire homeworld was destroyed.
/cy
Christopher Ruzsicska
: My question is, how does Ben hide the knowledge of his own brother dying at the
: hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a tremor in the
: Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does everyone think?
: - Karen
I think that obviously Ben was upset at the loss of his brother, but,
he had more important things on his mind. Like looking after Luke, the
mission to Alderaan, etc.
There was probably a tremor in the force, but to the untrained (meaning Luke)
it was hardly noticeable.
Just my opinion.
Chris.
William D. ClarkJr
the RotJ novel said that Ben and Owen were brothers...
Bill
--
#######################################################################
# "That's the SQUAW that STROKED the camel's SACK." Kelly Bundy #
#######################################################################
Stacy Leggitt
>: hands of the stormtroopers? Doubtless Owen's death caused a tremor in the
>: Force too, after all, he was Ben's brother. What does everyone think?
>: - Karen
>
>I think that obviously Ben was upset at the loss of his brother, but,
>he had more important things on his mind. Like looking after Luke, the
>mission to Alderaan, etc.
If you think he had "more important things on his mind" to the extent
that he didn't even display emotion, you must not have a brother. Thank
you to whoever realized this flaw; I'd never noticed it.
Jason Zanon
>In comparison, Leia also shed no tears (at least on screen) when her
>entire homeworld was destroyed.
Well, we don't really know that, since we don't see her between the time
she says "no..." as Vader clutches her just before Alderaan bites it and
the time Luke opens up her cell door. She seemed pretty bent out of shape
in the radio drama, though.
Jason
Glenn M. Saunders
: "I tried to give this to you once but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He
: was afraid you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic
: crusade like your father did."
: Don't know of anywhere that it says Ben and Owen are relatives.
In the ROJ novelization. This line above is hotly debated for more than
one reason.
A) does it imply that Owen rebuffed Owen at that point in time (meaning
Anakin knew he had kids) which is contradicted by ROJ material.
B) does it imply that Owen is Luke's biological uncle (contradictory to
ROJ material)
Likely solution as I presented it:
He is twisting the truth to shield Luke from having to explain how Ben was
left with Anakin's lightsaber. From the ROJ material it is easy to
extrapolate that Ben got the saber in the final battle with Anakin falling
into the pit, a painful memory for Ben and one in which he would not want
to recount to Luke. So building an alibi about 'vader killed your father'
(explained in ROJ) and ALSO 'your father wanted you to have this' when he
is really talking about HIMSELF wanting Luke to have the saber, is
totally justified and is probably something Ben was concocting for
decades almost to the point of believing himself as a defense mechanism.
Counter view, which is not really likely, is that Anakin would say "IF (I
can not stress IF any more than that) IF IF IF I had a son, he would
have wanted him to have his saber", to Ben. Since the twins were HIDDEN
from Anakin, he never knew he had kids.
So if you substitute 'your father' with Ben, several things magically
fall into place. We now understand a little better why Owen is rather
indignant towards Ben when talking to Luke about him. We know in ROJ
that Ben personally handled taking Luke to live with Owen, and so one
wonders why Ben would not be an active player in Luke's life. Owen was
an obstacle to this which is plainly evident in ANH and this caused
friction between the two, which goes right along with the line 'but your
Uncle wouldn't allow it'. In fact, I postulated that Owen is perhaps a
half brother or separated at birth. This would explain how he wound up
ona backwater planet like Tatooine with no interest or skill in the force
whereas all other examples of hereditary siblings has them BOTH have
force skills.
Glenn M. Saunders
: The fact that the smoking corpses bothered you just shows what an important
: scene it is - it is v. effective at severing Luke's final link with his
: Tatooine life - the Empire killed his family - we see what he sees. Also
: that innocents do get killed. Injustice, revenge, etc and so on. I do not
: regard it as an unecessary up-the-age-rating-scene but as an integral
: catalyst to the following events. Errrrrrrrrr I'm starting an essay now
: aren't I ? bandwith, succintness and all that.....
It also raises the film above a whitewashed fantasy like, um, ROJ was in
many ways. Compare the smoldering corpses to the Ewoks playing the
helmets of the dead stormtroopers and Chewie's Tarzan yell.
Glenn M. Saunders
: Something related that has also always bothered me - *Luke's* reaction to
: Owen's and Beru's death. He's lived with them all his life. They're all the
: family he has. When they die, I think Luke should at least have shed a few
: tears. But neither the movie or the novel (radio drama?) goes very far into
: this.
Having him slobber there would have been excessively corny and overdone.
Instead he DOESN't cry and that is part of his transition to adulthood,
the ability to cope with tragedy, so this is more meaningful. Not only
that, the cinematography focuses more on the twilight and the bodies and
less on Luke's expression upon seeing them. Therefore the film is giving
a pause for the AUDIENCE to express grief as Luke's standin, which I do
when I see that scene (or at least I used to do, especially the first
time I saw it). Not having him crying over the soundtrack lets the
audience's reaction be genuine and not be following the character they
are supposedly identifying with.
His mood and many other things are symbolized by the twilight scene.
Glenn M. Saunders
Force, that Owen and Beru were going to die. I don't know when he
determined this, but it was probably soon after Luke met up with Ben and
Ben knew that the Empire was probably right on their trail. He therefore
had time to internalize the grief and come to terms with the fact that
there was NOTHING he could have done.
The acutal MOMENT of their death was probably while Luke was in transit.
The tremor would have been felt offscreen and Ben would have controlled
himself by the time they reunite. Also, Ben would have known as well
that Luke would not be captured by going home. Ben knew there was danger
there, but if he thought Luke would have gotten captured, he would have
tried to stop Luke more forcefully. Rather, I think Ben saw the event
for what it was, something that Luke had to see and experience alone, and
the precise moment where Luke would sever his ties to his childhood.
Collin Yeoh
>Subject: Luke reacting to death (was re: something else)
>Date: 11 Oct 1994 09:21 -0800
>In article <cyeoh.140...@homecom.pl.my>, cy...@homecom.pl.my (Collin Yeoh) writes...
>>
>>Something related that has also always bothered me - *Luke's* reaction to
>>Owen's and Beru's death. He's lived with them all his life. They're all the
>>family he has. When they die, I think Luke should at least have shed a few
>>tears. But neither the movie or the novel (radio drama?) goes very far into
>>this.
>Well, lots of people react to death without tears. I thought the pained look
>on his face, and his subsequent decision to throw himself into the Rebellion
>was the only way he knew how to deal with it. The way I see it, the slaughter
>of his aunt and uncle was the catalyst for everything he did subsequently.
>So actually, if the Imperial Stormtroopers hadn't killed them, Luke
>wouldn't have been around to mess up their plans!
Pained look? What pained look? Luke's expression seemed pretty wooden to me.
>In comparison, Leia also shed no tears (at least on screen) when her
>entire homeworld was destroyed.
That's what got me thinking. Luke's adoptive parents were brutally murdered.
No tears. Leia's parents, friends, family, and ENTIRE HOME PLANET was
destroyed. No tears. I think this is Lucas' fault. He didn't direct Mark and
Carrie to show more emotion during these scenes.
IMHO, much as I love the trilogy, I think compared to today's movies, SW is
very much outdated. Emotional scenes like these, as well as a few action
scenes (ANH: gunfight in prison block) look very poorly done in light of
today's ultra-sophisticated action flicks.
Christopher Ruzsicska
: IMHO, much as I love the trilogy, I think compared to today's movies, SW is
: scenes (ANH: gunfight in prison block) look very poorly done in light of
: today's ultra-sophisticated action flicks.
Just remember that when alot of the SW SFX were done, that basically was the
latest in techo wizardry. When you see the films you don't think of what's
available now for films. Otherwise, consider Terminator 2. If you consider
movies made a year or two before that, then you could say "Oh look how
bad the SFX are, etc". You can't compare the quality of past films with todays
latest films. They really can't be compared in that context.
Anyway, this is just my opinion and I don't want to upset anyone, so ......
Chris.
Christopher Ruzsicska
<quite a lot of stuff deleted :) >
: Downtime
I just wanted to say that I agree. If you're not sure about the possible content,
find out before hand.
It's not that hard to do !!!
Chris.
Beth Wilson
>Hum..I seem to remember something saying that Owen was Brother/cousin to
>Anakin..Never heard that ben was his brother till i started reading
>this. Im going to stick with the Anakin theroy though..cuz why would
>Ben give the kid to Owen and not teach him from birth? Also..hm, watch
>ANH again, or at least just the beginning stuff..think theres something
>there about it
According to the bios in the SW Screen Entertainment, Owen and Ben are brothers.
Glenn M. Saunders
NEVER be surpassed when it comes to the quality of its production design
(sets and props). That is something that doesn't magically improve with
time the way photographic/computer SFX do.
Beth Wilson
>
>I'm not talking about the *SFX*. I'm talking about the slightly campy way the
>movies were made. My post talked about Mark Hamill's wooden acting during the
>Owen and Beru death scene, and Carrie Fisher's equal lack of emotion during
>the Alderaan-gets-blown-away scene. Also, during a couple of gunfight scenes,
>Our Heroes looked really *campy*. *That's* what I mean by outdated. Today's
>ultra-sophisticated action flicks are ultra-realistic when it comes to scenes
>like these, and SW can't compare.
>
It's funny that you should refer to the acting as campy. In the Lucas bio "Skywalking"
it says that the actors, after reading the script, thought that the movie was
supposed to be camp. They didn't think they were supposed to be serious. Fisher
had trouble saying lines like, "Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding
Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I came on board," without laughing.
(Forgive me if I don't quote corrctly) Ford was constantly saying to Lucas, "you know,
you may be able to write this shit, but you sure can't say it."
Just some thoughts
Beth
wood...@castlebbs.com
IW>: Owen wasn't Ben's brother he was Anakin/Darth Vaders brother!
IW> the RotJ novel said that Ben and Owen were brothers...
IW>
IW> Bill
IW>--
IW> #######################################################################
IW> # "That's the SQUAW that STROKED the camel's SACK." Kelly Bundy #
IW> #######################################################################
Hum..I seem to remember something saying that Owen was Brother/cousin to
Anakin..Never heard that ben was his brother till i started reading
this. Im going to stick with the Anakin theroy though..cuz why would
Ben give the kid to Owen and not teach him from birth? Also..hm, watch
ANH again, or at least just the beginning stuff..think theres something
there about it
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Amanda FordDuquette
disbelief and much more effective than hysterical sobbing.
David Cornette
: I feel that Star Wars showed the result of death on people better then most
: movies today, you can see Arnold, or Van Damme, or Sly.. or any of those guys
: kill a million Meanies.. and it won't phase you.. .You'll laugh at it.. But
: when you see Luke see his parents dead, see Obi-Wan get cut down, and see his
: friends die over the Death Star... You see the effects it has on Luke..
There is no question that despite all the violence in the Star Wars movies,
they do have an anti-violence message. Of course, the hero of the movies
follows a system of beliefs that allows for defense only, not attack. This
message is also shown in a scene from ROTJ during the fight on the surface of
Endor. Right in the middle of a bunch of exciting, violent scenes, we see some
Ewoks running from an AT-ST. The walker shoots, and smoke obscures the Ewoks. When the smoke clears, one of the Ewoks gets up and is about to continue
running when he realizes that his companion has not gotten up. He kneels down
and shakes the unmoving Ewok, and then realizes that his friend has been
killed. This is one of the most moving scenes in the trilogy.
David Cornette
dcor...@hawk.anselm.edu
All opinions expressed are my own, but they should be everyone else's too.
Greg Lubianetzky
C> In article <cyeoh.140...@homecom.pl.my>,
C> cy...@homecom.pl.my (Collin Yeoh) writes...
>Something related that has also always bothered me -
>*Luke's* reaction to Owen's and Beru's death. He's lived
>with them all his life. They're all the family he has. When
>they die, I think Luke should at least have shed a few
>tears. But neither the movie or the novel (radio drama?)
>goes very far into
C> Well, lots of people react to death without tears. I
C> thought the pained look on his face, and his subsequent
C> decision to throw himself into the Rebellion was the
C> only way he knew how to deal with it. The way I see it,
C> the slaughter of his aunt and uncle was the catalyst for
C> everything he did subsequently. So actually, if the
C> Imperial Stormtroopers hadn't killed them, Luke wouldn't
C> have been around to mess up their plans!
C> In comparison, Leia also shed no tears (at least on
C> screen) when her entire homeworld was destroyed.
C> /cy
Or when Han was carbon frozen... :-(
On a related note-this bit about Luke's lack of emotional reaction is
because of Lucas...I have an interview done with MarkHamill during the
shooting of ANH in which he mentioned that he felt Luke should have
dropped down to his knees, weeping like mad for the only family he's ever
known, but Lucas wanted a less emotional reaction from Luke-he wanted the
audience reaction to Owen and Beru's deaths to be the impact of the scene,
not Luke's-we find out soon enough that LUke's reaction is to throw
himself into the rebellion, like the last poster said...It's Lucas' film,
so they did it his way...
My 2 cents... May the force, Marianne
greg.lub...@canrem.com
-> Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Ser#2-174
Origin: Alice strikes back @
Christopher Ruzsicska
: If you think he had "more important things on his mind" to the extent
: that he didn't even display emotion, you must not have a brother. Thank
: you to whoever realized this flaw; I'd never noticed it.
Well, as a matter of fact I have 5 brothers ..... but hey I spose you weren't
meant to know that, even if you were going to make a stupid comment.
Chris.
std...@shsu.edu
Luke was having to grow up real fast, and he probably didnt want except the
fact yet, so seeing his uncle and aunt dead may have showed him part of his
destiny, which was to fight the empire.
This is not meant to be a flame, but Lucas aprroves what goes and stays in
the scripts, novels,etc. The books and scripts give us background information
that would be hard to fully explain in the movies, and would prove to be to
lengthy as it is. Just because the movie doesnt reveal a fact or background
doesnt mean it is false. Look at alot of movies made from novels, and you will
see that there is alot that is left out.
Jay Taylor- std...@freya.shsu.edu
Keith Sohl
be brought up by his (Ben's) brother. I'll try to find a bona-fide reference to
that. In addition, I think that Ben DID feel his brother's death through the
Force. Would you let a farmboy who is likely to hold the key to the future of the
galaxy run off to where he might tangle with a platoon of stormtroopers alone?
Wouldn't you have tried harder to stop him, with more than a 'No Luke, it's too
dangerous.' ANYbody would, that's why I think Ben LET Luke go ... he knew the
Luke would be too late. He also knew when Luke returned that Owen and Beru were
dead, without Luke telling him.
--
Bakura
FordDuquette) writes:
>I dunno. I found the "wooden" acting to be indicative of deep shock and
>disbelief and much more effective than hysterical sobbing.
Mark Hamill once said in an interview that he gave Lucas a take with and
without tears. Mark preferred the one with tears. I think we all know
which one Lucas preferred.
Collin Yeoh
>From: std...@SHSU.edu
>Subject: Re: Toasting Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru - WHY?
>Luke was having to grow up real fast, and he probably didnt want except the
>fact yet, so seeing his uncle and aunt dead may have showed him part of his
>destiny, which was to fight the empire.
> This is not meant to be a flame, but Lucas aprroves what goes and stays in
>the scripts, novels,etc. The books and scripts give us background information
>that would be hard to fully explain in the movies, and would prove to be to
>lengthy as it is. Just because the movie doesnt reveal a fact or background
>doesnt mean it is false. Look at alot of movies made from novels, and you will
>see that there is alot that is left out.
>Jay Taylor- std...@freya.shsu.edu
Still, that part of ANH didn't work for me. I'd guess it's Lucas' fault, that
scene just seemed to unrealistic and wooden to me. I'm hoping the new movies
don't reveal that Owen is actually Ben's brother - in what *I* consider canon,
he's not.
David Hines
(Kaizer) writes:
> Well here is the posting called for. On pg 336 of "A Guide to
>the Star Wars Universe" second edition states, "Luke believed owen was
>his natural uncle, but in fact the man was Ben Kenobi's brother." I hope
>this clears up any questions that you have.
The information comes from the ROTJ novelization and the uncut script
for ROTJ, in which Ben has a long speech which reveals lots of stuff
to Luke. The scene was cut from the finished movie, sadly.
David Hines
dzh...@midway.uchicago.edu
Kaizer
> the Star Wars Universe states that Ben and Owen were brothers. I am not
> at home right now so I can't say for sure but I will check it when I get
> back and post the correct version and where it was discussed.
> Der Kaizer
Well here is the posting called for. On pg 336 of "A Guide to
the Star Wars Universe" second edition states, "Luke believed owen was
his natural uncle, but in fact the man was Ben Kenobi's brother." I hope
this clears up any questions that you have.
Der Kaizer
Glenn M. Saunders
: In article <37udbm$d...@bmerha64.bnr.ca>, af...@bcarh2d8.bnr.ca (Amanda
: FordDuquette) writes:
: Mark Hamill once said in an interview that he gave Lucas a take with and
: without tears. Mark preferred the one with tears. I think we all know
: which one Lucas preferred.
I think Lucas was right. I know it would be natural to cry at any age,
to keep your emotions hidden is all that macho crap, but as far as making
a statement to the audience, a more reserved response shows a
fatalism/maturity in Luke which is important for him at this dramatic
moment. To have him slobbering would not establish the fact that this
event is a turningpoint for him to look BEYOND his own life and to the
greater concerns of society as a whole. It might also have suggested,
had he cried, that his desire to become a Jedi was nothing but a pure
desire for REVENGE. And I don't think Lucas wanted a hero who was
motivated by vengance, despite the early title 'revenge of the Jedi'.
As a rule, in film, less is more. You let the audience read in what they
want. Emotions are amplified onscreen. Often underplaying seems more
realistic than actually realistic emotionalism.
General Kev Benobi
: I'm not talking about the *SFX*. I'm talking about the slightly campy way the
: Owen and Beru death scene, and Carrie Fisher's equal lack of emotion during
: the Alderaan-gets-blown-away scene. Also, during a couple of gunfight scenes,
: Our Heroes looked really *campy*. *That's* what I mean by outdated. Today's
: ultra-sophisticated action flicks are ultra-realistic when it comes to scenes
: like these, and SW can't compare.
good actors. Get real. The only thing carrying 90% og modern action
films is the Special Effects budget. The stories are paper thin and the
acting is more wooden than this desk at which I sit. Ever heard of shock?
How would you act if Earth was blown up while you watched? Other authors
have written about this and a total lack of emotion is written into the
BOOK where the quality of acting doesn't matter. The thing about SW is
that no matter how tough things got, the good guys were able to wisecrack
but they did it in a very real sort of way. The humour in todays "great"
blockbusters is 99%contrived.
: SW SFX still rules, after all these years!
As does the Story, the execution of it and everything I have not yet
mentioned.
--
General Kev Benobi
Too much Star Wars is just barely enough!
You can go ANYWHERE in 10 minutes if you drive fast enough!
General Kev Benobi
: In addition, I think that Ben DID feel his brother's death through the
: Force. Would you let a farmboy who is likely to hold the key to the future of the
: galaxy run off to where he might tangle with a platoon of stormtroopers alone?
: Wouldn't you have tried harder to stop him, with more than a 'No Luke, it's too
: dangerous.' ANYbody would, that's why I think Ben LET Luke go ... he knew the
: Luke would be too late. He also knew when Luke returned that Owen and Beru were
: dead, without Luke telling him.
Ben knew Luke was safe to return home because he knew Luke was not going
to encounter ST's. Ben killed Owen and Beru. Isn't that bit obvious?
--
General Kev Benobi
Too much Star Wars is just barely enough!
Laugh it up fuzzball.
hoff...@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
> Bakura (bak...@aol.com) wrote:
> : In article <37udbm$d...@bmerha64.bnr.ca>, af...@bcarh2d8.bnr.ca (Amanda
> : FordDuquette) writes:
> : Mark Hamill once said in an interview that he gave Lucas a take with and
> : without tears. Mark preferred the one with tears. I think we all know
> : which one Lucas preferred.
>
> I think Lucas was right. I know it would be natural to cry at any age,
> to keep your emotions hidden is all that macho crap, but as far as making
> a statement to the audience, a more reserved response shows a
> fatalism/maturity in Luke which is important for him at this dramatic
> moment. To have him slobbering would not establish the fact that this
> event is a turningpoint for him to look BEYOND his own life and to the
> greater concerns of society as a whole. It might also have suggested,
> had he cried, that his desire to become a Jedi was nothing but a pure
> desire for REVENGE. And I don't think Lucas wanted a hero who was
> motivated by vengance, despite the early title 'revenge of the Jedi'.
Besides, when you're shocked like he was, it usually takes more than the ten
seconds the movie showed for the full impact to sink in, (in my observations
anyway). I think it was more realistic for him not to lose it right away,
regardless of the symbolism.
-Lara
Jay Taylor
I have to disagree about the Ben killing Owen and Beru part. Ben warned Luke in
ROTJ that his feelings could be used against him. Ben had seen the death of
many friends,Jedis, and proverbaly Anakin, so my guess would be that he hid his
feelings deep down, so that he could help guide Luke down his path to his
destiny. If Luke had sensed or seen that Ben was troubled, he would have been
reluctant to say the least. You do make some really good points though.
Jay Taylor
"The Hurkle is a happy beast."
Jon Nelson
overdone. The effects in Star Wars will NEVER be surpassed for their
believability. I don't care how good the SFX in movies are, it is how
they are used!
James McGowan
Sohl) wrote:
It still doesn't explain why they told him his real name (Skywalker) if this
clue would lead him to his destiny.
James.
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James McGowan BT LABS Ipswich, Suffolk, United Kingdom
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'We are all cigarette ends floating in the lavatory pan
of life, just trying not to get flushed away'
- Rab C. Nesbit (paraphrase)
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