Babylon 5 vs Star Wars
Celes
In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups, I've seen
plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic situation
would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the galaxy to fight off
an invading, land hungry empire? Or is it the other way around? Have the
Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will
the Shawdows and Vorlons even participate, or are they gone for good? Can
Vader or Luke (who have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation,
compaired to Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What
will turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What role will
the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever get throught the 47
rituals?
There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with opinions
to answer them.
How about you?
--
-Celes
ce...@deskmedia.com
Any/all replies flaming spelling and/or grammar
will be ignored because it is an obvious sign that the
flamer has no real ideas.
"If they don't understand, we will make them understand!"
-Ambassador Delenn-Babylon 5
"We SW vs ST vs B5 people are everywhere... for your convenience."
Ah yes the ever insightful versus debates...
No better way to hone the mind or get a full mail box than to fight for
whichever piece of fiction you prefer.
I have no doubt that some of you will start complaing about taking up
*your* server space or something like that, but you should be happy on one
point, at least I made it clear in the tital that it was a versus debate.
Rudy Robles
Celes wrote:
> Ah yes the ever insightful versus debates...
> No better way to hone the mind or get a full mail box than to fight for
> whichever piece of fiction you prefer.
> I have no doubt that some of you will start complaing about taking up
> *your* server space or something like that, but you should be happy on one
> point, at least I made it clear in the tital that it was a versus debate.
"Insightful" isn't the word I'd use to describe these so-called debates.
Apples versus Oranges.
Just spare us, please.
John Cholewa
Celes wrote:
>
> In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups, I've seen
> plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
>
> So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic situation
> would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the galaxy to fight off
> an invading, land hungry empire? Or is it the other way around? Have the
> Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will
> the Shawdows and Vorlons even participate, or are they gone for good? Can
> Vader or Luke (who have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation,
> compaired to Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What
> will turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
> telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What role will
> the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever get throught the 47
> rituals?
>
> There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with opinions
> to answer them.
>
> How about you?
> --
> -Celes
> ce...@deskmedia.com
Ah, Celes...you could not possibly conceive what a Pandora's Box
you have just opened...
So are you talking Prequel Star Wars, Movie Star Wars, or Post RotJ Star
Wars?
-JC
Jeff Walters
"Celes" <ce...@deskmedia.com> wrote:
>In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups, I've seen
>plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
>So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic situation
>would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the galaxy to fight off
>an invading, land hungry empire? Or is it the other way around? Have the
>Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will
>the Shawdows and Vorlons even participate, or are they gone for good? Can
>Vader or Luke (who have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation,
>compaired to Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What
>will turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
>telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What role will
>the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever get throught the 47
>rituals?
>There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with opinions
>to answer them.
>How about you?
Please,. I'm begging you start another pointless 'vs' debate
tim martin
John Cholewa <j...@bccom.com> wrote:
>Celes wrote:
>>
>> In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups, I've seen
>> plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
>>
>> So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic situation
>> would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the galaxy to fight off
>> an invading, land hungry empire?
Sure he could!
Or is it the other way around? Have the
>> Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will
>> the Shawdows and Vorlons even participate, or are they gone for good? Can
>> Vader or Luke (who have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation,
>> compaired to Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What
>> will turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
>> telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What role will
>> the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever get throught the 47
>> rituals?
>>
How does a Jedi Knight compare to a powerful telepath? Who can
influence people more, Luke Skywalker or Bester? Are Starfuries and
Thunderbolts better fighters than A-, B-, E-, X-, or Y- Wings, or TIE
fighters? A PPG versus a "good blaster at your side?" Mimbari
cruisers versus Star Destroyers? Interdictors pulling out a B5 fleet
our of hyperspace? A Vorlon planet-killer versus the Death Star,
Eclipse Class Star Destroyer, or the Sun Crusher (or the Galaxy Gun,
or Darksaber)?
Tim M
>> There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with opinions
>> to answer them.
>>
>> How about you?
tru...@usit.net
>How does a Jedi Knight compare to a powerful telepath? Who can
>influence people more, Luke Skywalker or Bester? Are Starfuries and
>Thunderbolts better fighters than A-, B-, E-, X-, or Y- Wings, or TIE
>fighters? A PPG versus a "good blaster at your side?" Mimbari
>cruisers versus Star Destroyers? Interdictors pulling out a B5 fleet
>our of hyperspace? A Vorlon planet-killer versus the Death Star,
>Eclipse Class Star Destroyer, or the Sun Crusher (or the Galaxy Gun,
>or Darksaber)?
>
>Tim M
>
misspelled), 2000 years before the empire, took control of an entire
race using the force. Cobroath(from the novels) took over crews of
ships numbering upwards of 200. Clone a few powerfull dark jedi, the
end.
Merrick Baldelli
I can't believe I'm about to stoop to this level, but it's one
of those days, and I think that a little light-hearted conjecture seems
to fit into the mood I'm in at the moment.
On Mon, 07 Jul 1997 17:59:22 GMT, tmar...@ua1vm.ua.edu (tim martin)
wrote:
>How does a Jedi Knight compare to a powerful telepath? Who can
>influence people more, Luke Skywalker or Bester?
Bester is more powerful in this case. As it was stated in Star
Wars, by Lucas himself, when Ben Kenobi used the force on the storm
troopers, and Luke asked him how that was done, Ben said, "the Force can
be used influence the weak minded"... Jabba himself showed that the
Jedi Mind Trick wouldn't work on him.
Whereas Bester being a P-12 telepath, and only having one rival
better than him at present (Lyta Alexander), has no peers other than
perhaps his own Psi-Cop compatriots, and could influence just about
anyone...
>Are Starfuries and Thunderbolts better fighters than A-, B-, E-, X-, or Y-
>Wings, or TIE fighters?
In this case, the ships from Star Wars. They have deflector
shields. From what I understand, the Starfuries and the Thunderbolts
don't.
>A PPG versus a "good blaster at your side?"
Both are capable of killing a person. The results are the same.
>Mimbari cruisers versus Star Destroyers?
Don't know what the weapon capabilities are for either ship...
So in my case, I cannot argue this point at all.
>Interdictors pulling out a B5 fleet our of hyperspace?
From what they show of Hyperspace of the Star Wars Galaxy --
it's explained as a SPEED. After all Solo himself said in Star Wars
about flying INTO a planet or asteroid.
From what they show of Hyperspace in the Babylon-5 galaxy, they
show it to be a different DIMENSION. As far as we've been able to see,
gravity wells don't seem to be too much of an issue with a Whitestar
class ship, as it was able to activate the Jump Drive while within
Jupiter's atmosphere.
In this case, PERHAPS an Inderdictor could create a field which
would prevent a Whitestar or such ships from the Babylon-5 Universe from
jumping into Hyperspace, I severely doubt that it can pull ships already
out of hyperspace out.
>A Vorlon planet-killer versus the Death Star, Eclipse Class Star
>Destroyer, or the Sun Crusher (or the Galaxy Gun, or Darksaber)?
They all destroy planets. Like the PPG vs blaster question
which you made earlier, the question is does it matter really, if the
effects are the same?
("\''/").___..--''"`-._
`9_ 9 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
*******************(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'***********************
* Merrick Baldelli _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' .' mbal...@mindspring.com *
******************(il).-''**((i).'**((!.-'*******************************
http://www.mindspring.com/~mbaldelli
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GCM d+(-)>--- s: a C+++$ UHSCX+++(on)$ P@ L@ !E W+++(++)$>+ N++>$ !o !K--
w++++$ O M$ V$ PS+>$ PE Y+>$ PGP++ t++>$ 5++(++)>++$ X R tv(-)>-- b++>$
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John Trauger
Merrick Baldelli <mbal...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33c98068...@news.mindspring.com>...
Before we get to far afield on this, please keep in mind that a LOT of
novels and comic books have been written about Star Wars and Lucas does not
keep the reigns on the writers the way I would expect JMS to do, which
means that authors can write anything they want into a given work. (and I'm
sure they do) This will seriously skew any reasonable comparison.
If you WANT this thread to degenerate into a "mine is better" kind of
thing, using sources beyond the movies is the quickest way to get there.
Since I haven't read any of the books, I both can't and won't cite them.
The one thing the Star Wars universe has going for it is speed. In Empire,
the MF's hyperdrive is damaged and they toodle to the nearest star ststem
without it. What does this say? Star Wars drives are likely MUCH faster
than their B5 equivalents. The thing that StarFuries, Thunderbolts and the
rest have in their favor is manuverability. B5 fighters, if they can be
judged by the StarFury standards, can shift direction and orientation than
their Star Wars bretheren, who rely on atmospheric-style curves.
At the end of Empire, the rebels are shown to have a base (or at least a
"meeting point") well beyond the normal confines of the galaxy. The MF and
some fighters jump off to go find Han. To get a view of the galaxy we see
there, the rebel base would have to be 30-40 THOUSAND light-years out,
perhaps in a globular cluster orbiting the galactic core. For someone to
hop in a fighter cockpit, make the jump to lightspeed and not go stir-crazy
before reaching civilization makes the hyperdrive speed for Star Wars ships
nothing less than phenominal. The Voyager and crew would be home for
afternoon tea if they had Star Wars hyperdrive.
In contrast, Hyperspace travel in B5 is OK but nothing incredible. It is
10 light years from Earth to Epsilon Eridani as the White Star flies. With
that as a "two-day jump" means that, in hyperspace, ships can cover around
5 light years per day. this is roughly comprable to ST's warp drive, but
is a snail's pace compared to Star Wars.
Merrick Baldelli
On Tue, 08 Jul 1997 20:23:06 GMT, tru...@usit.net wrote:
>I can answer the force/telapath one right now. Exar Kun(yes,
>misspelled), 2000 years before the empire, took control of an entire
>race using the force. Cobroath(from the novels) took over crews of
>ships numbering upwards of 200. Clone a few powerfull dark jedi, the
>end.
The question about these books though is -- is this considered
Canon?
loo...@you.kid
On Mon, 07 Jul 1997 03:54:57 GMT, n970...@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au
(Jeff Walters) wrote:
>"Celes" <ce...@deskmedia.com> wrote:
>
>>In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups, I've seen
>>plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
>
>>So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic situation
>>would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the galaxy to fight off
>>an invading, land hungry empire? Or is it the other way around? Have the
>>Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will
>>the Shawdows and Vorlons even participate, or are they gone for good? Can
>>Vader or Luke (who have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation,
>>compaired to Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What
>>will turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
>>telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What role will
>>the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever get throught the 47
>>rituals?
>
>>There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with opinions
>>to answer them.
>
>>How about you?
>
>Please,. I'm begging you start another pointless 'vs' debate
>
Oh God, it's started. The Sleeper has awakened yaddah yaddah yaddah
Please everyone let's ignore this thread and hope it goes away before
becoming on of those "+57" threads that never seem to die
Please, for Kosh's sake
epa...@removethis.wagweb.com
On 1997-07-07 n970...@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au(JeffWalters) said:
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars,rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5,alt.tv.
>babylon-5,alt.fan.starwars
>"Celes" <ce...@deskmedia.com> wrote:
>>In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups,
>>I've seen plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
>>So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic
>>situation would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the
>>galaxy to fight off an invading, land hungry empire? Or is it the
>>other way around? Have the Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to
>>the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will the Shawdows and Vorlons even
>>participate, or are they gone for good? Can Vader or Luke (who
>>have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation, compaired to
>>Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What will
>>turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
>>telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What
>>role will the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever
>get throught the 47 rituals?
>>There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with
>>opinions to answer them.
>>How about you?
>Please,. I'm begging you start another pointless 'vs' debate
I think ST beats the sh1t out of both of 'em. ST ships are more
maneuverable, faster, pack a harder punch and have tougher shields. The
tactical disadvantage they have is telepathy. Vulcans have some
telepathic abilities but B5 and SW telepths/jedis seem able to exert it
over great distances. They do have sensors that can detect psi energy
and can keep clear. Maybe the shadows and vorlons could give the
federation a hard time but the human/mimbar tech is joke compared to
Starfleet.
Okay... Now that that's settled, how about Borg VS Shadows.
Ha! Flame on!
---
Please feel free to smell at me. ;)
Ed Padin, Systems Integration Consultant, NYC/USA
" Lead or get out of the way! "
Net-Tamer V 1.08 Palm Top - Registered
Merrick Baldelli
On 9 Jul 1997 17:53:10 GMT, "John Trauger"
<john.t...@NOSPAMsierra.com> wrote:
[snipped my original response]
>Before we get to far afield on this, please keep in mind that a LOT of
>novels and comic books have been written about Star Wars and Lucas does not
>keep the reigns on the writers the way I would expect JMS to do, which
>means that authors can write anything they want into a given work. (and I'm
>sure they do) This will seriously skew any reasonable comparison.
From what I understand about all this -- even though Lucas
allows things to be written about the Star Wars Universe (for a take on
the profit) -- most of the time, he tells everyone publically what he
does and does not consider canon.
When I posted my response to this somewhat "pointless" debate --
I used what I understood as Canon according to what Lucas has said. And
so far, about the only things that are generally Canon as blessed by
Lucas himself, has been anything produced by him or LucasArts Inc.
Anything else is wild speculation which though he is amused by, does not
always carry his "seal of approval" other than perhaps that they can use
the Star Wars name to print it under.
>If you WANT this thread to degenerate into a "mine is better" kind of
>thing, using sources beyond the movies is the quickest way to get there.
Hehehehehehe, as I've already seen about some Jedi that was able
to control a whole planet. I don't personally remember reading that
story myself. ;)
>Since I haven't read any of the books, I both can't and won't cite them.
And when I responded to this thread, I've only read a quarter of
them, all of which Lucas himself said that they weren't considered
canon.
>The one thing the Star Wars universe has going for it is speed. In Empire,
>the MF's hyperdrive is damaged and they toodle to the nearest star ststem
>without it. What does this say? Star Wars drives are likely MUCH faster
>than their B5 equivalents.
If you're using "The Empire Strikes Back" as proof to this, I
have to ask the question:
Do you understand the magic of compressed time through editing?
>To get a view of the galaxy we see there, the rebel base would have to
>be 30-40 THOUSAND light-years out, perhaps in a globular cluster orbiting
>the galactic core.
*PROVIDING* that the picture which we see there is similar to
the picture of the galaxy which we've also seen viewed in none other
than "The Outer Limits."
What if that wasn't actually a galaxy? It wasn't mentioned at
all during the end sequences of ESB that that's actually a galaxy which
we are seeing out the window on the Medical Frigate. Hence, this is
merely an interpretation based on something which you and I have seen
someplace else. It doesn't always mean that it has the same value in
this universe. ;)
Celes
>>> So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic
situation
>>> would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the galaxy to fight
off
>>> an invading, land hungry empire?
My guess exactly!
>>>Or is it the other way around? Have the
>>> Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to the SW galaxy and set up shop?
Will
>>> the Shawdows and Vorlons even participate, or are they gone for good?
Can
>>> Vader or Luke (who have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation,
>>> compaired to Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows?
What
>>> will turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
>>> telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What role
will
>>> the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever get throught the
47
>>> rituals?
>How does a Jedi Knight compare to a powerful telepath? Who can
>influence people more, Luke Skywalker or Bester?
Until the recent thing with Garabaldi, I would say the Jedi. Now, of
course the Psi Coree is better at completly turning people, where as Jedi
do it for a short time.
>Are Starfuries and
>Thunderbolts better fighters than A-, B-, E-, X-, or Y- Wings, or TIE
>fighters?
If size (of the blasts) and distructive power are any evidence, the
StarFuries would apear to be better.
>A PPG versus a "good blaster at your side?" Mimbari
>cruisers versus Star Destroyers?
Mimbari, defenetly.
>Interdictors pulling out a B5 fleet
>our of hyperspace? A Vorlon planet-killer versus the Death Star,
>Eclipse Class Star Destroyer, or the Sun Crusher (or the Galaxy Gun,
>or Darksaber)?
Hmmm, DS vs. Vorlons. I want to see that movie, could you imagine the
destruction (what with not Federation morals to get in the way)
>>> There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with
opinions
>>> to answer them.
>>>
>>> How about you?
>>Ah, Celes...you could not possibly conceive what a Pandora's Box
>>you have just opened...
Being a war veteran of ST vs. SW (where I fought for SW BTW,) and Defiant
Vs. WhiteStar (B5 all the way!) I do know of the box.
>>So are you talking Prequel Star Wars, Movie Star Wars, or Post RotJ Star
>>Wars?
Any, all.
--
-Celes
ce...@deskmedia.com
Any/all replies flaming spelling and/or grammar
will be ignored because it is an obvious sign that the
flamer has no real ideas.
"If they don't understand, we will make them understand!"
-Ambassador Delenn-Babylon 5
"...Anything that gets in the way... disappears."
-John Sheridan-Babylon 5
"We are everywhere... for your convenience."
-Bester-Babylon 5.
Celes
NOTE:
I added the group alt.startrek.vs.starwars and alt.startrek (being I don't
think many people have noticed alt.startrek.vs.starwars yet) being this now
involves Star Trek.
> >"Celes" <ce...@deskmedia.com> wrote:
> >>In the few months that I've activly participated in these groups,
> >>I've seen plenty of B5 vs ST and ST vs. SW, but no SW vs. B5.
> >>So, whoes technology is better, and then whoes tactics/economic
> >>situation would win? Is Sheridan going to be able to unite the
> >>galaxy to fight off an invading, land hungry empire? Or is it the
> >>other way around? Have the Shawdow and Vorlons traveled out to
> >>the SW galaxy and set up shop? Will the Shawdows and Vorlons even
> >>participate, or are they gone for good? Can Vader or Luke (who
> >>have probaly been bread for hundreds of generation, compaired to
> >>Leeta's 6 generations) stun or even kill the shawdows? What will
> >>turbolasers do to the orgainc hulls of the whitestars? Will the
> >>telepath trick that got the shawdows get the whitestars? What
> >>role will the great machine play? Will Sheridan and Deleen ever
> >get throught the 47 rituals?
> >>There are many questions to be answered, and plenty of people with
> >>opinions to answer them.
> >>How about you?
>>Please,. I'm begging you start another pointless 'vs' debate
I did.
>I think ST beats the sh1t out of both of 'em. ST ships are more
>maneuverable,
Laughing. The Defiant (which seems to be the only ST ship that moves 3
dementionaly in battle) couldn't pull anywhere near the turns seen in last
weeks B5 episode Lines of Communication. In the first episode with the
White Star, it went from moving toward the camera to perpendicularialy up
in a zero degree turning radius. The Defiant always has to turn less
sharply.
>faster,
In normal space:
VS. SW, yes probaly. The ST Impulse is faster, but they rearly seem to
fight at that speed, they usally fight at a standstill or just barly
moving)
VS B5, No way
In Faster than light
VS. SW, No way 127 light years per hour (what .5 past light speed is
acording to Dark Force Rising) vs. 2000 light years a YEAR!
VS B5 ????? I don't know.
>pack a harder punch
VS. SW, No. 120 gigawatt weapons vs. the treks 5.1 megawatt, yet you think
the ST Phasers are more powerful!?!
VS B5, No. the ST 5.1 megawatt weapons vs B5's TERRAWATT weapons, yet you
think Phasers pack more of a punch?
>
and have tougher shields.
Being the B5 and SW weapons are more powerful, it's sfe to assume that the
armor is just as good.
>The
tactical disadvantage they have is telepathy.
>Vulcans have some
telepathic abilities but B5 and SW telepths/jedis seem able to >exert it
>over great distances. They do have sensors that can detect psi energy
>and can keep clear. Maybe the shadows and vorlons could give the
>federation
>a hard time but the human/mimbar tech is joke compared to
>Starfleet.
Even the White Stars, (made with Vorlon Tech)
>Okay... Now that that's settled, how about Borg VS Shadows.
>Ha! Flame on!
I hope your talking about the "assimilated" telepaths and not going into
Voyager stole the Shadows.... I hope.
Celes
>>I can answer the force/telapath one right now. Exar Kun(yes,
>>misspelled), 2000 years before the empire, took control of an entire
>>race using the force. Cobroath(from the novels) took over crews of
>>ships numbering upwards of 200. Clone a few powerfull dark jedi, the
>>end.
>
> The question about these books though is -- is this considered
>Canon?
The Lurker's Guide said that the B5 people have OFFICIALY declared one of
their books to be 100% canon (and others to be like 90% canon) So it is a
good bet that all the SW books that say "The Authorised Continuation of the
Star Wars Saga" (or something like that) are canon enought for our
purposes. (I believe that (until recently) Gerorge Lucas had to OK them
before they were done)
Pooley
What about all the manga v. tv-sf.....? hehehehehe.
On B5 books: the great maker goes through em all. so writers cant just
make up super weapons/technology like every ST episode. lucas may say he
considers in or out.... roddenberry can't cause his dead. so what's to
stop ST? we've already seen that htey like to do *drool* grabs with huge
lasers on the Enterprise and what all...
B5 v ST: trek shows can't produce a real fight scene for their lives.
therefore they'd lose. Same for ST v SW.
B5 v SW: well, the SW universe is a galaxy far far away.... so only the
b5 First Ones would be able to get there. If the first ones were so
inclinded it'd get pretty messy.
Anyway I like B5 and SW too much to compare them.
ST on the other hand needs a dose of restraint and shouldn't be worried
about fighting. its suppost to be about unity and scientific research,
not super*drool*tech made up during the script.
they had to bring the borg into Voyager to keep interest.
they need to cross over TNG people into DS9/Voy to keep interest.
One series captain is better than an older series and so on...
Picard' treatmen of Spock
Sisko's treatment of Picard, and later Worf.
Return Trek to what its suppost to be, let the professionals do the
fighting.
Capt.Ja...@usa.net
Where did anyone get the information on StarWars weapons,Where in a
StarWars canon sources did it ever say that their lasers are running at
129 gigawatts or that .5 past the speed of light is 127 light years per
hour. I thought that canon sources are the Films and series not books and
RPG. If you go by them then StarTrek and for that matter StarWars starts
to conflict with themselves.
Buggs
Celes
>Where did anyone get the information on StarWars weapons,Where in a
>StarWars canon sources did it ever say that their lasers are running at
>129 gigawatts
None did. It's 120 gigawatts.
>or that .5 past the speed of light is 127 light years per
>hour.
The Dark Force Riseing. The Authorised continuation of the Star Wars
Saga.
>I thought that canon sources are the Films and series not books and
>RPG. If you go by them then StarTrek and for that matter StarWars starts
>to conflict with themselves.
Star Trek's series conflict with each other. How many times have you seen
"Warp ten is immposible" only to see Voyager do it. Or you see individual
borg (FC) or clocked ships firing (ST6) or emotinal Vulcans, or beaming
through shields, or finding clocked vessels?
None of the (Authorised) SW books (that I've read) conflict with the
movies. NONE!
The only thing that they even conflict with each other in is how many
powers Luke has, let's see Trek match that.
You can't say no books are canon. Baybylon 5 recently declared a soon to
be published book to be 100% canon.
Basicly for canon you go:
1)What JMS says (only for B5)
2)The newest films and TV shows
3)The older films and TV shows
4)RPGs and Tech manels
5)The lurkers guide (only for B5)
6)Fiction books and art manuels.
7)Comic books
8)What various actors say
If a higher number conflicts with a lower number, you the lower number
(i.e. take movies over books)
How else do you fit in B5's declaration of a book to be 100% canon?
necKro
In article <5qc3k4$55e$1...@shadow.skypoint.net>,
Celes <ce...@deskmedia.com> wrote:
>You can't say no books are canon. Baybylon 5 recently declared a soon to
>be published book to be 100% canon.
It's already out. B5 novel #9, "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", by
Kathryn Drennan (a.k.a. JMS' wife). I've read it, it's VERY good, and
100% consistent with the series. It should be required reading for any
fan of the series, as it fills in LOTS of gaps.
>Basicly for canon you go:
>1)What JMS says (only for B5)
>2)The newest films and TV shows
>3)The older films and TV shows
>4)RPGs and Tech manels
>5)The lurkers guide (only for B5)
>6)Fiction books and art manuels.
>7)Comic books
>8)What various actors say
>
>If a higher number conflicts with a lower number, you the lower number
>(i.e. take movies over books)
>
>How else do you fit in B5's declaration of a book to be 100% canon?
All of the other B5 books suck though, except for possibly #7, which is
okay...
--
nec...@yuck.net <*> http://www.visi.com/~neckro/
"The universe runs on the complex interweaving of three elements:
energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." -G'Kar
Les Duff
Give me a break.
Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
always the correct way up?
At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
gate in B5.
Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
oxygen?
At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
Vulcan (First Contact)?
Jester
Kevin Brophy
Celes wrote:
> Star Trek's series conflict with each other. How many times have you
> seen
> "Warp ten is immposible" only to see Voyager do it. Or you see
> individual
> borg (FC) or clocked ships firing (ST6) or emotinal Vulcans, or
> beaming
> through shields, or finding clocked vessels?
I haven't watched Voyager religiously, but the two times they reached
Warp 10 (in a single episode), all hell broke loose and Paris and
Janeway were turned into giant newts. In ST:TNG, I know that in the
final episode "All Good Things", a futuristic Enterprise hit warp 13(?),
but that was a "dream" episode".
All Vulcans are INCREDIBLY emotional. They made a decision eons ago that
if they let their emotions get the best of them they would fall apart as
a society, so what the do is CONTROL their emotions and use logic as a
guide.
As O'Brien showed in one episode, if you know the frequency of the
shield you can beam through it. This was also useful to the Klingons in
the movie ST: Generations when they "followed" Jordie around with his
visor until he looked at the shield setting; they re-set their weapons
accordingly and got right through.
Finding cloaked vessels - again, I'm going to have to assume you mean
ST:TNG, most of the aliens Voyager has found so far haven't gotten such
technology (replicators and the such). The two episodes I can think of
were: 1) The last episode which, again, was a "dream" episode and 2) the
time they made a huge grid of ships creating a web of tachion (sp?)
beams between them, so that even if a "cloaked" ship passed through the
ship would be detected.
- Kevin
Celes
>>You can't say no books are canon. Baybylon 5 recently declared a soon
to
>>be published book to be 100% canon.
> It's already out. B5 novel #9, "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", by
>Kathryn Drennan (a.k.a. JMS' wife). I've read it, it's VERY good, and
>100% consistent with the series. It should be required reading for any
>fan of the series, as it fills in LOTS of gaps.
Ah, I see I was wrong on the publication date. Thanks for clearing that
up.
Capt.Ja...@usa.net
I totaly agree that B5 is more realistic. I just think StarWars is far
more unrealistic.
Buggs
Stephen
Rank the sci-fi tech levels!
Here is my ranking of relative techs.
Highest- Dr. Who
The Vorlons and Shadows are puppies compared to the time lords.
Dr. Who could probably blow up a planet with the sonic screwdriver
if he had to. The time lords could probably destroy the universe
if they felt like it. Daleks and Sontorans are likely at the Vorlon
level of tech.
2. Vorlons/Shadows
They can cross galaxies easily and blowing up planets is nothing amazing for
them. Billions of years old. When the Shadows are in a bad mood they bring
an unstoppable black cloud made up of a gazillion huge bombs. These are the
only races that would destroy a Death Star using brute force.
3. Star Wars Empire
They can cross galaxies and can blow up planets with rare Death Stars
The civilization has been spacefaring for many thousands of years.
4. Minbari
They can cross the galaxy and have artificial gravity. The Minbari cannot blow
up planets. The civilization has been spacefaring for 1000+ years.
5. Star Trek
Cannot cross a galaxy and cannot blow up planets. They do have shields and
artificial gravity. The civilization has been spacefaring for hundreds of
years.
6. EA/Narn/Centauri
No Artificial gravity, no shields, cannot blow up planets. They can cross a
galaxy, giving them a strategic edge on the ST tech, but the lack of defences
and grav are crippling. Spacefaring for hundreds of years.
7. SAAB
Still using fission reactors. Barely colonizing other planets.
G-Byte
On 15 Jul 1997 05:16:55 GMT, Capt.Ja...@usa.net wrote:
>In article <33CA28...@cmpt.co.uk>, ld...@cmpt.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Give me a break.
>>
>> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
>> always the correct way up?
>>
>> At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
>> gate in B5.
>>
Granted. ST seems to employ the notion that the universe has an
up/down axis. Ships always meet eye-to-eye.
>> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
>> oxygen?
>>
>> At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
Wrong. There have been episods in ST where a species needed speacial
breathing apperatus. There have also been species that had to adapt
to a different gravity.
>>
>> and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
>> Vulcan (First Contact)?
I blame that one on American pride....
>>
>> Jester
GigantiByte
Please post responces in the current newsgroup, but if you must email me, remove *NOSPAM* from my email address.
leny
>and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
>Vulcan (First Contact)?
Because it is located in San Francisco. They came for the cheese and
sourdough french bread. Only if you've had it, will you understand.
Leny
Matt
star trek is crap face it you sad fucking trekkies
G-Byte <Gigantibyte@*NOSPAM*hotmail.com> wrote in article
<33cc9683....@news.storm.ca>...
> On 15 Jul 1997 05:16:55 GMT, Capt.Ja...@usa.net wrote:
>
> >In article <33CA28...@cmpt.co.uk>, ld...@cmpt.co.uk wrote:
> >
> >> Give me a break.
> >>
> >> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
> >> always the correct way up?
> >>
> >> At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
> >> gate in B5.
> >>
> Granted. ST seems to employ the notion that the universe has an
> up/down axis. Ships always meet eye-to-eye.
>
> >> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
> >> oxygen?
> >>
> >> At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
>
> Wrong. There have been episods in ST where a species needed speacial
> breathing apperatus. There have also been species that had to adapt
> to a different gravity.
>
> >>
> >> and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
> >> Vulcan (First Contact)?
>
Ben Matterson
Matt wrote:
> star trek is crap face it you sad fucking trekkies
I'm sure you're very sincere and all, but, as a Trekkie I find it very
difficult to get worked up over a poorly-executed, barely-literate troll
like this.
Let's all just pretend we heard a little gnat buzzing around.
Ben (posting from rastb5)
--
Art imitates life. TV imitates art.
Celes
On the whole I like it, but I would like to make a few modifications.
(I changed some of the numbers when I added new races. See his post for
the original numbers)
>Rank the sci-fi tech levels!
>
>Here is my ranking of relative techs.
>
>Highest- Dr. Who
>
>The Vorlons and Shadows are puppies compared to the time lords.
>Dr. Who could probably blow up a planet with the sonic screwdriver
>if he had to. The time lords could probably destroy the universe
>if they felt like it. Daleks and Sontorans are likely at the Vorlon
>level of tech.
>
>2. Vorlons/Shadows
>
>They can cross galaxies easily and blowing up planets is nothing amazing
for
>them. Billions of years old. When the Shadows are in a bad mood they
bring
>an unstoppable black cloud made up of a gazillion huge bombs. These are
the
>only races that would destroy a Death Star using brute force.
3. The other First Ones (from B5)
They seem to be less powerful than the Vorlons and Shadows, but they are
still advanced races
4. Species 8472
They seem to be just as powerful as the Vorlons. (please let's not start a
plagerism debate) They have much of the same tech, jumpgates, organic
hulls, planet killing lasers.
>5. Minbari
>
>They can cross the galaxy and have artificial gravity. The Minbari cannot
blow
>up planets. The civilization has been spacefaring for 1000+ years.
They now have organic technology, and have the weapons power to destroy
Shadows vessels (at great cost to their own fleet, but they can do it.)
The Species 8472 has tech similar to the Shadows, but the Borg can't take
species 8472 in a space battle, so I believe the Mimbai rank above the Borg
(and therefor above the Federation (which has far worse tech than the
Borg)
6. The "Minions" (Allies of the Shadows, such as the Drahk and Keepers)
They were advanced a lot by the shadows. but they probaly didn't get all
the Tech hte Shadows possest (or the Whitestar fleet would have a harder
time against the Drahk in Line of Communication)
7. Star Wars Empire
They can cross the galaxy, and can blow up planets, but they still have'nt
mastered Organic tech.
8. The Borg
Being they conquer as they go, the Borg probaly have'nt crossed the entire
galaxy. I think that if the Borg can ever assimilate Species 8472, or any
Vorlons, the Universe in in grave danger. They are the race (other than
the Time Lords) who could (in the lonn run) do the greatest danger to all
life in the universe.
9. The Federation/Romulan/Klingons
>Cannot cross a galaxy and cannot blow up planets. They do have shields
and
>artificial gravity. The civilization has been spacefaring for hundreds
of
>years.
>
>10. EA/Narn/Centauri
>
>No Artificial gravity, no shields, cannot blow up planets. They can cross
a
>galaxy, giving them a strategic edge on the ST tech, but the lack of
defences
>and grav are crippling. Spacefaring for hundreds of years.
>
>11. SAAB
David Bigg
G-Byte wrote:
<snip>
> >> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
> >> always the correct way up?
> >>
> >> At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
> >> gate in B5.
> >>
> Granted. ST seems to employ the notion that the universe has an
> up/down axis. Ships always meet eye-to-eye.
It is simple. The Enterprise/ship-in-question always moves so that the
crew will not get sick looking at it. This fuction is to keep up the
health of the crew.
> >> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
> >> oxygen?
> >>
> >> At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
>
> Wrong. There have been episods in ST where a species needed speacial
> breathing apperatus. There have also been species that had to adapt
> to a different gravity.
Of course, there have been the odd species that "breathe" rock . . .
> >>
> >> and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
> >> Vulcan (First Contact)?
>
> I blame that one on American pride....
That one is because the Federation is a _human_ achievement. It was the
humans that forged the first bonds with Vulcan, who then, together, went
and got the other races such as the Andorians and the Tellarites. The
Federation came about after the Romulan Wars.
As StarFleet is the military/exploration arm of the Federation, its
headquaters will be where the hq of the Federation lies, Earth.
Of course, the REAL reason is that this is an EARTH program ;-)
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
David Bigg <*>
Trekker, B5'er and X-Phile lurks at
dg...@student.canterbury.ac.nz
big...@cad.canterbury.ac.nz
d_b...@hotmail.com
and soon at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/2263
When in danger, or in doubt,
Run in circles, scream aand shout.
Old Roman adage.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Les Duff
Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
Gene Roddenberry did it first.
And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
programme aimed at adults.
Jester
darc'
> Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
> there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
>
So what your saying is that ST crawled from the slime but B5 walks erect.
darc'
Frank O Wustner
Les Duff (ld...@cmpt.co.uk) wrote:
: Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
: there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!
: Gene Roddenberry did it first.
No he didn't. H.G. Wells was doing sci fi LONG before Mr. Roddenberry
was even born.
: And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
: that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
: programme aimed at adults.
Even if that is true, so what? You could quite truthfully say that Mr.
Roddenberry ripped off H.G. Wells, who got into the genera before him.
Or you could say that the creator of "West Side Story" ripped off William
Shakespere (sp?).
Just because someone else has done sci fi before doesn't mean that Mr.
Roddenberry, or JMS (creator of B5), or ANYONE else, can't do sci fi
also. Do you think George Lucas ripped off Star Trek when he did Star
Wars? I doubt it. Likewise, JMS didn't rip off Star Trek when he did
Babylon 5. The two are completely different, except for being sci fi.
Personally, I like them both very much. So does the rest of my family.
So do several of my best friends. Anyone who doesn't like B5 just
because "JMS ripped off Star Trek!" is quite ignorent.
The Deadly Nightshade
--
this .sig down for repairs
'Droid
David Charlap wrote:
>
> Al Barros <*afb...@concentric.net*> wrote:
> >
> >... BTW, what ever happened to the Tholians,
> >Gorns, Metrones, Organians, etc? Like, the Dominion is just gonna walk
> >over them too?
>
> I don't know about the rest, but in a recent episode, Sisko was
> informed that the Tholians signed a non-agression treaty with the
> Dominion.
>
> And I agree with you - it doesn't sound very believable. The Tholians
> are so xenophobic the Dominion representatives shouldn't have been
> able to get close enough to present the treaty, let alone negotiate
> one.
Get a founder to assume the shape of a Tholian like life-form. They
might be more responsive to a species more like themselves. It might
only be humanoids which they don't like.
'Droid
Stephen
David Charlap wrote:
>
> Al Barros <*afb...@concentric.net*> wrote:
> >
> >... BTW, what ever happened to the Tholians,
> >Gorns, Metrones, Organians, etc? Like, the Dominion is just gonna walk
> >over them too?
>
> I don't know about the rest, but in a recent episode, Sisko was
> informed that the Tholians signed a non-agression treaty with the
> Dominion.
I want to see a pack of Gorns kicking Gem-Haddar butt. The Dominion
losers are barely able to beat up wounded klingons, let alone an
indestructable super-strong race. I would also like to see a founder
slowly lose his/her shape in the high gravity of a Gorn ship.
The Metrones would probably exterminate any dominion ship that entered
their space.
darc'
"Hisssisssissss I grow weary of the wait to sssee my ssspecies'sss return".
Massster of Gorn dedicated VGA Planets player.
darc'
Al Barros
> >> Give me a break.
> >>
> >> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
> >> always the correct way up?
> >>
> >> At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
> >> gate in B5.
> >>
> Granted. ST seems to employ the notion that the universe has an
> up/down axis. Ships always meet eye-to-eye.
ST has become very antiseptic, politically correct and dull. It's hard to
believe that humans will be so 'wonderful' in 200 years - no money, needs,
etc. Maybe 1000, but not 200. Babylon 5 seems much more 'realistic' in
terms of the human condition, and espouses the fact that there are greater
and lesser civilizations in the universe, whereas ST focuses predominately
on radical social issues and interpersonal relationships; not a lot of SF
in ST anymore. I also get a real hoot when I watch the Klingons in ST 6
(cold, calculating, intelligent), then watch the blathering fool Klingons
on the new ST series - what a joke - it's amazing they can build anything,
let alone starships... And Voyager - man, that's just "Lost in Space -
1997." And they have to do something about Janeway's voice - that's enough
to give a Horta an infection. DS-9 and the Defiant - I thought the Defiant
was the "State of the Art" federation military ship, but it's always
getting ripped - go figure... BTW, what ever happened to the Tholians,
Gorns, Metrones, Organians, etc? Like, the Dominion is just gonna walk
over them too?
> >> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
> >> oxygen?
> >>
> >> At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
>
> Wrong. There have been episods in ST where a species needed speacial
> breathing apperatus. There have also been species that had to adapt
> to a different gravity.
True, but at LEAST 97% of ST species breathe oxygen (it's easier for the
producers). But, B5 is pretty much the same way. I'm surprised they
didn't have atmospheric areas on B5...
> >> and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
> >> Vulcan (First Contact)?
>
> I blame that one on American pride....
>
Also true, and easier. But, the Fed Pres is an alien...
AMB
Sice Dude
Babylon 5 is much better. True ST is good, but B5 shows much more. It
shows the fact the world is not perfect, unlike ST.
B5 is also much more intense.
Its back 23rd July at 22:40 CH4, so it will be shown un cut!!!!
ST is good. B5 is great.
-----
Hi there.
I am sorry to write to you, but there is a volunteer organisation that
is trying to change the world basically. They need volunteers, so if
just half of you that read this sign up things will be great.
Please go to
Isn`t time you gave something back?
Zorro
Stephen wrote:
>
> Rank the sci-fi tech levels!
>
> Here is my ranking of relative techs.
>
> Highest- Dr. Who
>
> The Vorlons and Shadows are puppies compared to the time lords.
> Dr. Who could probably blow up a planet with the sonic screwdriver
> if he had to. The time lords could probably destroy the universe
> if they felt like it. Daleks and Sontorans are likely at the Vorlon
> level of tech.
>
Ok
> 2. Vorlons/Shadows
>
> They can cross galaxies easily and blowing up planets is nothing amazing for
> them. Billions of years old. When the Shadows are in a bad mood they bring
> an unstoppable black cloud made up of a gazillion huge bombs. These are the
> only races that would destroy a Death Star using brute force.
Nope, the First Ones, have already proven that one wrong.
>
> 3. Star Wars Empire
>
> They can cross galaxies and can blow up planets with rare Death Stars
> The civilization has been spacefaring for many thousands of years.
They can cross 1, one, a single galaxy...which is impossible to do with
thier technology. The MF can go .5 past lightspeed, so lightspeed must
be a benchmark, it's 10000 lightyears to Alpha Centauri, and thats a
close one....thats 10,000 years in starwars time...unrealistic....yup.
> 4. Minbari
>
> They can cross the galaxy and have artificial gravity. The Minbari cannot blow
> up planets. The civilization has been spacefaring for 1000+ years.
>
> 5. Star Trek
>
> Cannot cross a galaxy and cannot blow up planets. They do have shields and
> artificial gravity. The civilization has been spacefaring for hundreds of
> years.
>
But your still my brother.
Zorro
check_w...@netran.net
In <01bc9274$27fd3ae0$5f5c...@sh1.ro.com>, "TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> writes:
>Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> wrote in article <33CCAB...@cmpt.co.uk>...
>> Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
>> there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
>>
>>
>> that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
>> programme aimed at adults.
>
>stuff.
>Right. Sure it was.
>TMB
I'll grant you Outer Limits, but I'm not so sure about Twilight Zone. It seems to be more fantasy with weird twists and morals not always presnted well (sometimes downright corny).
>Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
>webmaster@localhost
>abuse@localhost
>postmaster@localhost
>Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
:-) Cute. Too bad it won't work with spamers sending from a dial up line (spamers don't run UNIX).
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TMB
Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> wrote in article <33CCAB...@cmpt.co.uk>...
> Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
> there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
>
> Gene Roddenberry did it first.
>
> And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
> that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
> programme aimed at adults.
Yep, that ol' Twilight Zone and Outer Limits was some pretty childish
stuff.
Right. Sure it was.
TMB
--
Frank O Wustner
Sice Dude (meerk...@aol.com) wrote:
: Babylon 5 is much better. True ST is good, but B5 shows much more. It
: shows the fact the world is not perfect, unlike ST.
I agree on this point. A friend of mine, stupidly, does not. he is
really a contradictory guy, who believes that people are stupid and will
never change. He also claims that B5 would be better if it portrayed a
perfect universe like Star Trek because "it would be more realistic to
show how the world improves over time". The two beliefs directly
contradict each other, yet he has no qualms about holding both. *shrug*
Go figure.
: B5 is also much more intense.
Because B5 was meant to be a novel with a real plot, while Star Trek is a
bunch of little stand-alone episodes.
: ST is good. B5 is great.
Definately.
The Deadly Nightshade
|-----------------------------------|
|"I, too, believe in fate... |
|the fate a man makes for himself." |
|Lord Soth |
|-----------------------------------|
|"Quoth the raven, 'Eat my shorts!'"|
|Edgar Allan Bart |
|-----------------------------------|
|"Ack. Thpppbt." Bill the Cat |
|-----------------------------------|
check_w...@netran.net
In <5qjl65$iqk$1...@celica.visix.com>, qn...@ivfvk.pbz.com (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <33CD49...@netcomuk.co.uk>, 'Droid <af...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:
>As for the Organians, good luck. I don't think the Dominion would
>stand a chance against them. Considering that they single-handedly
>enforced the cease-fire along the Klingon neutral zone using just
>their psionic abilities (in the original series), they should be able
>to overpower a Jem Hadar fleet just as well. But I think Rick Berman
>wants to pretend that those races never existed, because they'd
>prevent the plot from getting interesting.
It seems like they don't want to introduce many new species, especailly on DS9. In the original series, Kirk was stationed on the outer boarders of the Federation, so they ran into many new things. Now, its like new speicies stopped comming by. I know that DS9 is an orbial vessal not ment to travel far, except in circles, but they do go exploring that other quadrant.
It would be nice if some of these older species make a reappearence on Star Trek. Done properly, it can make the plot more interesting.
Karl Hiller
In alt.startrek.vs.babylon5 Frank O Wustner <uwus...@mcl.ucsb.edu> wrote:
> Just because someone else has done sci fi before doesn't mean that Mr.
> Roddenberry, or JMS (creator of B5), or ANYONE else, can't do sci fi
> also. Do you think George Lucas ripped off Star Trek when he did Star
> Wars? I doubt it.
No, of course not. Everyone knows that George Lucas ripped off *Dune*
when he did Star Wars! Sheesh!
Karl
[@] (job-seeking) librarian, INTP, axolotl fancier, super-genius ^
[@] Watching: Babylon 5, Red Dwarf Playing: ADOM, Blood / @ \
[@] Listening to: Carter USM, Whorgasm, The Heads, & Splashdown /-----\
Reading: _Agyar_ by Steven Brust /_______\
Les Duff
More like the primevil swamp.
Lets be honest Trek TOS, is crap. The Next Gen was a
lot better.
Jester
necKro
>> Just because someone else has done sci fi before doesn't mean that Mr.
>> Roddenberry, or JMS (creator of B5), or ANYONE else, can't do sci fi
>> also. Do you think George Lucas ripped off Star Trek when he did Star
>> Wars? I doubt it.
>
>No, of course not. Everyone knows that George Lucas ripped off *Dune*
>when he did Star Wars! Sheesh!
And, of course, they were both ripping off Tolkien... who ripped
off the Bible... who ripped off the Greeks... man, there's been quite a
shortage of original storytelling lately...
--
nec...@yuck.net <*> http://www.visi.com/~neckro/
"The universe runs on the complex interweaving of three elements:
energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." -G'Kar
Les Duff
Well excuse me.
Just to kick start another discussion.
Outer Limits and Twilight Zone may feature some Sci
Fi stories but the series are mainly fantasy and not
Sci Fi.
Jester
Stephen
darc' wrote:
>
> "Hisssisssissss I grow weary of the wait to sssee my ssspecies'sss return".
>
> Massster of Gorn dedicated VGA Planets player.
Doing a good Gorn would be expensive, the one on TOS would look pretty
bad today. But hell, DS9 has tons of cash. What kind of a Gorn-friendly
pettition can we whip up and send to Paramount?
Les Duff
To settle this one and for all. I belive that H G
Wells wrote the first ever SCi-Fi or was it Jules
Verne?
Jester
Martin Phillpot
I beg to differ, TOS had decent character interaction, moral issues, a variety
of strange things happening and a scottish engineer.
Is there anything in TNG to compare with the banter of Spock And McCoy?
As to the captains, Patrick Stewart is a better actor than Shatner,
but I prefer the character of Kirk.
Martin J Phillpot
Karl F. Banke
But there were Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon
and that was even before TV....
Karl
--
------------------------------------------------
Karl F. Banke, MPI fuer Eisenforschung
Come to UTrade where YOU trade !
http://www.utrade.net
Now Java enabled
------------------------------------------------
Bert Vanderbauwhede
Les Duff (ld...@cmpt.co.uk) wrote:
: To settle this one and for all. I belive that H G
: Verne?
The first SciFi-story, Frankenstein, was written by a woman (sorry, can't
remember her name).
--
Bert Vanderbauwhede aka batlock
e-mail: bat...@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be
URL: http://ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~batlock
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell me anything. Tell me everything.
Revoke our time apart. Love me fierce in danger.
check_w...@netran.net
I agree. Both serise had something to offer and both were succesful (even if the TV execs didn't like TOS). Sure, the sets and special effects aren't the best in TOS when compared to modern shows, but thats no surprise. TOS had some of the best special effects of any TV show in its time. Its main competition were westerns -- how many special effects do you see there?
I know Shatener has garnered a lot of critisism over how he played Kirk, but it didn't seem all that bad to me. It was peculiar at times, though.
And the banterings on TOS -- they're great! Spock and McCoy were funny and witty at the same time. They would even clash opposing view poits that were both quite valid to emphasize a delimma. All TNG had was Wesley -- terribly unreal.
dangermouse
Les Duff (ld...@cmpt.co.uk) wrote:
> : And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
> : programme aimed at adults.
Quatermass, Twilight Zone, Dr Who.... Need I go on - they all pre-date
Trek.
Zorro
>
> Doing a good Gorn would be expensive, the one on TOS would look pretty
> bad today. But hell, DS9 has tons of cash. What kind of a Gorn-friendly
> pettition can we whip up and send to Paramount?
Thats a great idea, e-mail me and we'll set it up.
Zorro
umni...@cc.umanitoba.ca
>> >> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
>> >> always the correct way up?
>> >>
>> up/down axis. Ships always meet eye-to-eye.
>crew will not get sick looking at it. This fuction is to keep up the
>health of the crew.
Actually, I think this is how it can be explained. As we watch the
program, the ship is aligned face up. But that doesn't mean the rest of
the universe is face up. Our view of the ship is only one point of view.
I think the meeting eye-to-eye could be to make it easier on viewers and
possibly the creation of the special effects. It was probably decided the
issue was so small that it didn't need to be addressed. I don't think it
has anything to do with the health of the crew. They've been trained for
space travel and probably one of the first things taught is the 3D
capabilities of space.
Al Nixon
Fourth Year Computer Science Honours
University of Manitoba
necKro
In article <33CDF2...@cmpt.co.uk>, Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> wrote:
>More like the primevil swamp.
>
>Lets be honest Trek TOS, is crap. The Next Gen was a
>lot better.
Next Gen was slicker, but I've been watching TOS repeats lately
(I'm lucky enough to get them around here) and while the special effects
weren't all that great and the makeup was crappy, it had, overall, much
more interesting stories than TNG did... at least TOS didn't invent a new
particle every two weeks...
And besides, the TOS episode "Mirror, Mirror" is one of the most
(unintentionally) hilarious things I've seen on TV... I know it was a
serious episode, with a serious message (albeit an anti-Commie one), but I
can't get over Evil Sulu hitting on Uhura...
"I am Spock of beard. Revolution is illogical. Put Mr. Chekov
back into the pain chamber."
Coffey
On 13 Jul 1997 20:54:24 GMT, Capt.Ja...@usa.net wrote:
>Where did anyone get the information on StarWars weapons,Where in a
>StarWars canon sources did it ever say that their lasers are running at
>129 gigawatts or that .5 past the speed of light is 127 light years per
>hour. I thought that canon sources are the Films and series not books and
>RPG. If you go by them then StarTrek and for that matter StarWars starts
>to conflict with themselves.
>Buggs
Hey heres another one:
The DeathStar would need to exhibit a minimum of 2 x 10^32 W to
destroy a planet to the point where almost all parts achieve escape
velocity.
Thats
200000000000000000000000 GigaWatts
Think about it, it makes sense, you have to move all those pieces of
rock at escape velocities in ~1 second. Think how much energy is
needed for the Shuttle to achieve escape velocity, (and think how tiny
th space shuttle is in comparison to the Earth).
The DeathStar posses one VBFG
It's well calculated for more info to how this figure is drawn check
out:
http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~saxton/starwars/ds.html#power
(Oh Yes and thats a R.E.A.L educational physics institution boys and
girls!)
necKro
In article <33cefa7d...@news.istar.ca>, <pmpk...@fox.nstn.ca> wrote:
>Babylon 5? Well as far as I've ever been able to tell, they just
>ripped off BOTH SW and ST, hardly even worth mentioning them....
Ripped off? B5 has used many inspirations from the same sources as ST
and SW, but is hardly a rip-off... name ONE element that's a blatant
Trek/SW rip-off...
JMS' prime inspiration for creating B5 was to be able to do a show in
the grand tradition of the sf epics like Dune, Foundation, and Lensman...
it pulls inspiration from a large number of sources, but ST and SW are
hardly among them...
pmpk...@fox.nstn.ca
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:06:53 +0000, Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> wrote:
>Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
>there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
>
>Gene Roddenberry did it first.
>
>And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
>that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
>programme aimed at adults.
>
>Jester
How the hell do you figure Star Wars has anything to fo with ST on TV?
In any event, Lucas has ALWAYS said that the primary audience he had
in mind for SW wasn't adults. He wanted to give the younger
gemneration some modern mythology, a clear morality tale, to enjoy at
a time when the norm was heavy, social issue movies, and entertainment
a forbidden word. Besides THAT, truth be told, the science fiction
writers of the later half of the last century did it first. Burroughs
wrote about interplanetary conflict LONG before Gene the mooch ever
came anywhere near Star Trek (which, to put a further arrow through
your claim of ST's originality, was Gene's "Wagon Train to the Stars"
as ST fans never tire of quoting. He ripped off another genre for his
show).
Justin Kokkin
:
m>:
Organization: University of New England, NSW, Australia
Distribution:
Zorro (Zo...@homemail.com) wrote:
:
: They can cross 1, one, a single galaxy...which is impossible to do with
: thier technology. The MF can go .5 past lightspeed, so lightspeed must
: be a benchmark, it's 10000 lightyears to Alpha Centauri, and thats a
: close one....thats 10,000 years in starwars time...unrealistic....yup.
What do you mean by .5 past lightspeed, is that 1.5 lightyears/year??
Don't forget the starwars galaxy was "far, far away"!!
And Alpha Centauri is only about 4 lightyears away from us, if that was
what you meant.
Jk
Ben Steed
That would be Mary Shelley
Ben Steed
People are stupid? How shocking!
Well, only about 95% of them
Ben Steed
I thought it amazing he could do all that, Nichelle Nichols, and Majel
Barrett at the same time.
Frederick Pagniello
In article <01bc9274$27fd3ae0$5f5c...@sh1.ro.com>
"TMB" <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> writes:
>
>Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> wrote in article <33CCAB...@cmpt.co.uk>...
>> there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
world of fertilizer sales. Lucas was inspired by the old westerns and action
movies, on which he was nurtured when a young man. And he was also rather
familiar with Joe Campell's "The Power of Myth." Recall that the characters
in the Lucasverse are archetypes (several years ago a young woman told me of
a character from Irish mythology, who was onehanded, so she may very well be
justified in comparing Luke to him. Anyone for Vader, as well?)
By the by, one could say that if it weren't for "Forbidden Planet," there
would be no ST. Anyone notice a few "minor" coincidences between the two?
>>
>> Gene Roddenberry did it first.
the events surrounding the classic episode of TOS, Roddenberry was, shall
we say, something less than honorable. It was Roddenberry who started the
rumor, and continued it onwards even after being corrected (and admitting it)
of Scotty dealing drugs, that it was Gene Coon who coined the phrase "To
boldy go where no man has gone before" (never knew that prior to the book),
as well as other interesting tidbits on the great bird of the galaxy.
Now, one may claim that this is just one side of the story, but sometimes
there is only one side. Ellison is not a paragon of virtue (and who is),
but he tends to have strong convinctions (like keeping one's word, something
considered trivial by many of current society): he walked away from "The
Starlost" after it was butchered by the production company rather than stay
and receive the money for his services.
>>
>> And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
>> that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
>> programme aimed at adults.
>
>stuff.
>Right. Sure it was.
>TMB
claim, or at the minimum appear to claim, that ST is the greates literary
vehicle ever devised.
Frederick James Pagniello.
Frederick Pagniello
bea...@oasiskc.net (Roj) writes:
>
>
>Actually, in interviews, George Lucas credits the original Flash Gordon
>for his source of inspiration. He watched them as a kid and decided to
>write his own space opera. And 20th Century Fox didn't let him make it
>because of Star Trek. Rather they let him make it because of his success
>with American Graffiti.
>
>
Damn, forgot about good ol' Gordon! Westerns, cliff-hangers, comic books
and Flash Gordon. Who'se going to say that is trash? The working man
(especially one in particular, to whom I am unfortunately related....).
>
Frederick James Pagniello.
Les Duff
How the hell do you figure Star Wars has anything to
fo with ST on TV?
Read the post shit head.
I never said Trek was an original idea or even the
first Sci-Fi. What I said was that Trek was the
first Sci_fi TV programme aimed at adults.
I know Roddenberry ripped off western movies and I
also know that there where Sci-Fi movies, books and
comics before Trek.
If Star Wars is prmamrily aimed at kids then please
explain why the appeal of the films has not dwindled.
I first saw Star Wars when I was 11 but I still enjoy
the films today.
As far what as Star Wars go to do with Trek or Bab 5.
Lucas and Strasinsky where both influenced by the
original Trek series.
My final word on this subject is this if the only
Sci_fi you enjoy is Star Wars then firstly, you are
missing a lot of got Sc-Fi from Doc Who to Babylon 5
and secondly you are a very sad person.
In future please read the posts properly before
sounding off and get a life.
Jester
BTW I assume you are to much of a coward to sign your
posts.
Frederick Pagniello
In article <33CF83...@cmpt.co.uk>
Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> writes:
>
>How the hell do you figure Star Wars has anything to
>fo with ST on TV?
>
>Read the post shit head.
>
>I never said Trek was an original idea or even the
>first Sci-Fi. What I said was that Trek was the
>first Sci_fi TV programme aimed at adults.
and one from the '50s (whose name I've forgotten) were all intended for
a mature audience. Better get your facts straight before making a claim.
>
>If Star Wars is prmamrily aimed at kids then please
>explain why the appeal of the films has not dwindled.
heyday of space exploration, and were raised on the same fare as Lucas.
So, SW tapped into all these memories, and others as well (such as all the
games we played as children, such as spaceman). And that the film was very
unique, as well.
>
>As far what as Star Wars go to do with Trek or Bab 5.
>Lucas and Strasinsky where both influenced by the
>original Trek series.
of its existance, and perhaps even watching it as well. I've never heard
Lucas tip the hat in gratitude to Roddenberry for inspiration. As was
posted earlier, Lucas wanted to do an updated version of Flash Gordon,
but was unable to secure the rights. So, he set out to create his own
story.
Frederick James Pagniello.
David Stinson
In article <33CF83...@cmpt.co.uk>, ld...@cmpt.co.uk wrote:
: I never said Trek was an original idea or even the
: first Sci-Fi. What I said was that Trek was the
: first Sci_fi TV programme aimed at adults.
And you would be wrong - TWILIGHT ZONE, OUTER LIMITS, several
anthology theater-type productions all were before STAR TREK.
: I know Roddenberry ripped off western movies and I
: also know that there where Sci-Fi movies, books and
: comics before Trek.
Many, dating back into the last century.
: If Star Wars is prmamrily aimed at kids then please
: explain why the appeal of the films has not dwindled.
Classic story. Great special effects.
And nostalgia.
: As far what as Star Wars go to do with Trek or Bab 5.
: Lucas and Strasinsky where both influenced by the
: original Trek series.
They were influenced by a lot of things. Straczynski credits
THE TWILIGHT ZONE more than STAR TREK, as Rod Serling and his
contemporaries were his models as a writer.
Lucas creditis Joseph Campbell's background on mythology and
Japanese Samurai movies, as well as the serials of the 30's
and 40's as his source. Which fits the style of STAR WARS better
than STAR TREK.
STAR WARS is a classic Space Opera.
Kindly remember things like the BUCK ROGERS and FLASH GORDON
serials were an inspiration to quite a few film makers. Much as
the action serials were an inspiration for RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK.
: My final word on this subject is this if the only
: Sci_fi you enjoy is Star Wars then firstly, you are
: missing a lot of got Sc-Fi from Doc Who to Babylon 5
: and secondly you are a very sad person.
I don''t think the last item was necessary to your argument.
Yes, almost all SF has its good points (even some SPACE:1999 -
but not much).
--
David A. Stinson Web Page: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html
Personal E-Mail : dast...@zaol.com or dsti...@ix.netcomz.com
Remove 'Z' from addresses to send E-mail.
** No electrons were harmed during the production of this message **
John Trauger
Ben Steed <bst...@telis.org> wrote in article
<33CF1B48...@telis.org>...
> People are stupid? How shocking!
> Well, only about 95% of them
Shaocking that people are stupid or "only" 95% are?
Kosh: "Yes."
Scipio
: The first SciFi-story, Frankenstein, was written by a woman (sorry, can't
: remember her name).
Mary Shelley was her name.
H Samuel Renkert
Capt.Ja...@usa.net wrote:
: In article <33CA28...@cmpt.co.uk>, ld...@cmpt.co.uk wrote:
: > Give me a break.
: >
: > Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
: > always the correct way up?
This is because they all have calibrated internal guidence and orientation
mechinisms. - Duh!
: >
: > At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
: > gate in B5.
: >
: > Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
: > oxygen?
: >
: > At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
: >
: > and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
: > Vulcan (First Contact)?
: >
: > Jester
: I totaly agree that B5 is more realistic. I just think StarWars is far
: more unrealistic.
: Buggs
CJ Gregory
umni...@cc.umanitoba.ca wrote:
> >> >> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
> >> >> always the correct way up?
> >> >>
> >> Granted. ST seems to employ the notion that the universe has an
> >> up/down axis. Ships always meet eye-to-eye.
> >It is simple. The Enterprise/ship-in-question always moves so that
> the
> >crew will not get sick looking at it. This fuction is to keep up the
> >health of the crew.
>
> Actually, I think this is how it can be explained. As we watch the
> program, the ship is aligned face up. But that doesn't mean the rest
> of
> the universe is face up. Our view of the ship is only one point of
> view.
When the two ships meet in space, imagine how personel transfers between
the two ships would be, if they were not meeting "eye-to-eye"? Crew
emenber goig form one ship to another would go from one environment
where up is up to the other where up = down and down = up!! Just going
from one ship to another would be EXTREMELY confusing. Safety and use of
transition are prbably the reasons why two ships/stations when meeting,
meet with corelating X, Y and Z axis....
Bab5 chooses to have its ships show this a little better, that's all!
CJ Gregory
Support Coordinator
(not speaking for) Labatt Breweries of Canada
mailto:calvin....@labatt.com
Dave Garber
>: In article <33CA28...@cmpt.co.uk>, ld...@cmpt.co.uk wrote:
>
>: > Give me a break.
>: >
>: > Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
>: > always the correct way up?
>
That's just the way it's depicted on TV.. Watch ST:VI and watch as
the Klingon Battle Cruiser comes to starboard of the Enterprise.. They
show the Klingon ship rotating to match the orientation of the
Enterprise. I guess that they assume that we know this happens and
choose not to show this maneuver on the TV shows... Probably to save
money in special effects... (every little bit they can save, the
better, I guess)
Edward Spurlock
Al Barros <*afb...@concentric.net*> wrote in article
<01bc923d$d0f1d020$1438adce@default>...
>
[snip]
>
> > >> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
> > >> oxygen?
> > >>
> > >> At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
> >
> > Wrong. There have been episods in ST where a species needed speacial
> > breathing apperatus. There have also been species that had to adapt
> > to a different gravity.
>
> True, but at LEAST 97% of ST species breathe oxygen (it's easier for the
> producers). But, B5 is pretty much the same way. I'm surprised they
> didn't have atmospheric areas on B5...
>
Hadn't you noticed that everyone who visited the late Vorlon ambassadors'
quarters used breathing apparatus? The exception being the
surgically-modified telepath/interpreter.
--shrEd--
Coffey
On 15 Jul 1997 05:16:55 GMT, Capt.Ja...@usa.net wrote:
>In article <33CA28...@cmpt.co.uk>, ld...@cmpt.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Give me a break.
>>
>> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
>> always the correct way up?
>>
>> At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
>> gate in B5.
>>
>> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
>> oxygen?
>>
>> At least some races on B5 are non oxygen breathing.
>>
>> and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
>> Vulcan (First Contact)?
>>
>> Jester
>I totaly agree that B5 is more realistic. I just think StarWars is far
>more unrealistic.
And StarTrek Even MORE unrealistic
Did you know that APPARENTLY using the transporter (to transport 1
person) uses more energy than a blast from the DeathStar.
ie: 2x10^17(I think, pretty close)Terra-Watts.
OK WHATEVER SOUNDS COOL ST.
Al Barros
> Hadn't you noticed that everyone who visited the late Vorlon ambassadors'
> quarters used breathing apparatus? The exception being the
> surgically-modified telepath/interpreter.
Yeah, but that was only one individual's living area, not a section of the
station.
AMB
Graham Kennedy
In article <33cd7d16...@news.wave.co.nz>, Coffey
<cr...@arkon.co.nz> writes
They're assuming that this energy comes from the Death Star in the first
place, of course.
Why are they making that assumption?
--
Graham Kennedy
Mark Freid
> Ripped off? B5 has used many inspirations from the same sources as ST
> and SW, but is hardly a rip-off... name ONE element that's a blatant
> Trek/SW rip-off...
Majel Barrett!
Walter Koenig!
(sorry... couldn't resist. <grin>)
-Mark
Merrick Baldelli
On 20 Jul 1997 00:37:59 GMT, "Edward Spurlock" <spur...@bga.com> wrote:
>Hadn't you noticed that everyone who visited the late Vorlon ambassadors'
>quarters used breathing apparatus? The exception being the
>surgically-modified telepath/interpreter.
You forgot to mention G'Kar. ;) He also has a similar
apparatus..
("\''/").___..--''"`-._
`9_ 9 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
*******************(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'***********************
* Merrick Baldelli _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' .' mbal...@mindspring.com *
******************(il).-''**((i).'**((!.-'*******************************
http://www.mindspring.com/~mbaldelli
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GCM d+(-)>--- s: a C+++$ UHSCX+++(on)$ P@ L@ !E W+++(++)$>+ N++>$ !o !K--
w++++$ O M$ V$ PS+>$ PE Y+>$ PGP++ t++>$ 5++(++)>++$ X R tv(-)>-- b++>$
DI++(+) D G e++ h r y+
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Timothy Jones
On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Les Duff wrote:
> Give me a break.
Arm or leg? :>
> Anyone noticed that when a ship in ST docks its
> always the correct way up?
I don't see what that proves. Trek starbases don't need to rotate to
generate their gravity, so the starships don't need to spin to dock.
[shrug] That would seem to indicate they're *more* advanced to me.
> At least the ships spin when coming through the jump
> gate in B5.
Fed ships don't need jumpgates either...
> Isn't amazing that all the alien races in ST breath
> oxygen?
Not all. [Most of the B5 ones seem to as well, BTW.] And again, I don't
see what that's supposed to prove, esp not techwise.
> and finally why is Star Fleet HQ on Earth and not
> Vulcan (First Contact)?
Probably b/c Earth started the Federation. [Yes, I've seen "First
Contact," and know very well the Vulcans had warp-driven travel
first...that *doesn't* mean *they* started the Federation...*both* planets
and civilizations are considered "founding worlds."] Let's also remember
that a substantial number of Vulcans don't think Starfleet is a better
carear choice than the Vulcan Science Academy, so I for one would easily
understand if their government prefered not to have the Academy there,
bringing in all those illogical offworlders who'd constantly whine about
the heat and pollute their (rather isolationistic) culture.
TJ...LLAP
Greg Muir
>
>(Yes, in the novel, the Enterprise somehow manages to avoid the time
>shift, goes back in time millions of years, and ensures that the
>dinosaurs get wiped out the way they should. What else would you
>expect?)
>
Wouldn't that violate the Prime Directive somehow?
Robert Denier
> > Gene Roddenberry did it first.
> >
> > that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
> > programme aimed at adults.
> >
Wrong...The first episode of Dr. Who aired within a few days of
Kennedy's assasination (I think). This is before Star Trek.
-Robert
Robert Berman
Les Duff wrote:
>
> To settle this one and for all. I belive that H G
> Wells wrote the first ever SCi-Fi or was it Jules
> Verne?
>
Well, this can of worms can get messy really quick. IMHO, some Greek
myths (Icarus, some stories about Daedalus) qualify as Sci-Fi, even
though the science isn't so great by modern standards. But if you
insist on being modern, Frankenstein predates Welles and Verne by a
couple of generations, doesn't it?
Robert Berman
P.S.Cotterell
The day after, in fact (23rd November). Although "aimed at adults" might
be open to debate...
Philip
Kareem Badr
Frankenstein IS accepted in the literary world as the first Science
Fiction novel. End of discussion.
FUBAR
From a Trekkie to another Trekkie:
>> Before you Flame me on my Spelling, I apologize. My spell checker is not
installed since it was corrupted <<
Anyway:
If it weren't for SW us trekkies wouldn't have the episodes you're watching
on tv now.
SW would have been made irregardless of rather ST exist or not.
And as for Rodenberry - He's a great writter and I don't know of anyone
that is as sucessful consecutively as he has, However, he has made nothing
to impress Lucas ( and if you can remember ST was unpopulour not just with
the networks but with the tv audiance of it days. Read it's history! You'll
know.) Mr.Lucas was impress by the old Buck Rogers and Flash Gorden
serials of the 30-40's. If anything Lucas was motivated by, it was 2001.
NOT Kirk.
SW was believeable and don't have shiny saucer, smooth surface nor does
it's weapon fire power in line with a "ray" gun (al'a star trek beam (ray)
phaser )
Today ST is overly blown out of proportion with politically correct
episodes and men in tights. Mothers taking charge of ships and men doing a
womens job. Blacks, Asians Eskimo's ect. captainning the ship at every
different episodes. ( Yes - there's nothing wrong with this - but the point
is : ST is made to please politics ( especially liberals) not for realistic
enjoyment. ) Not to mention Wulf, wolf or what'ever his name is - having
sex/relationship with the main female cast member ( Alien and human?) This
is as close to Beastiality as you can get on TV. I don't care what anyone
says - interacial between human is Okay by me but ST has gone too far. And
I can't understand all the fake mumbo -jumbo sci-fi techno crap they keep
inventing every episodes.
I like both of these shows but, Let's face it SW is in a catagory of it's
own. It's Not made to be shown on a TV and Star trek was never written to
be shown in a theater.
-nuff says.
TMB <tmbr...@ro.com.uk> wrote in article
<01bc9274$27fd3ae0$5f5c...@sh1.ro.com>...
> Les Duff <ld...@cmpt.co.uk> wrote in article
<33CCAB...@cmpt.co.uk>...
> > Just remember if it wasn't for the Star Trek TOS,
> > there would be no Babylon 5, Star Wars etc.
> >
> > Gene Roddenberry did it first.
> >
> > And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
> > that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
> > programme aimed at adults.
>
> Yep, that ol' Twilight Zone and Outer Limits was some pretty childish
> stuff.
> Right. Sure it was.
> TMB
> --
> Here Spambot! Here ya' go boy:
> webmaster@localhost
> abuse@localhost
> postmaster@localhost
> Fetch that little spam right back to your host now, ya' hear?
>
>
FUBAR
I usually don't replay in a NG to an idiots but I had to for this Moron:
> And, of course, they were both ripping off Tolkien... who ripped
> off the Bible... who ripped off the Greeks... man, there's been quite a
> shortage of original storytelling lately...
>
--
> nec...@yuck.net <*> http://www.visi.com/~neckro/
> "The universe runs on the complex interweaving of three elements:
> energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." -G'Kar
Dude I hope you were kidding when you say "The Holy Bible" ripped of
Greek.
- Get a life guy. - There more out there in the universe then your home
planet of Uranus.
Charles Dyer
> To settle this one and for all. I belive that H G
> Wells wrote the first ever SCi-Fi or was it Jules
> Verne?
Homer, actually. Check out _The Odessey_
>
> Jester
--
antispam enabled in sig. delete to mail me.
Timeout
Coffey wrote:
> On 13 Jul 1997 20:54:24 GMT, Capt.Ja...@usa.net wrote:
>
> >Where did anyone get the information on StarWars weapons,Where in a
> >StarWars canon sources did it ever say that their lasers are running
> at
> >129 gigawatts or that .5 past the speed of light is 127 light years
> per
> >hour. I thought that canon sources are the Films and series not books
> and
> >RPG. If you go by them then StarTrek and for that matter StarWars
> starts
> >to conflict with themselves.
> >Buggs
>
> Hey heres another one:
> The DeathStar would need to exhibit a minimum of 2 x 10^32 W to
> destroy a planet to the point where almost all parts achieve escape
> velocity.
>
> Thats
>
> 200000000000000000000000 GigaWatts
>
> Think about it, it makes sense, you have to move all those pieces of
> rock at escape velocities in ~1 second. Think how much energy is
> needed for the Shuttle to achieve escape velocity, (and think how tiny
>
> th space shuttle is in comparison to the Earth).
>
Here is a great one.
To transport an average sized person would take the power of a small
exploding sun. The E-D can transport 1000 persons per hour.
That would be 9999999999999999999999 ^ 99999999999999999 terawatts or
more.
Think how small the earth is in comparison to 1000 suns.
Timeout
Coffey wrote:
> Did you know that APPARENTLY using the transporter (to transport 1
> person) uses more energy than a blast from the DeathStar.
>
> ie: 2x10^17(I think, pretty close)Terra-Watts.
>
To transport one person takes the energy of a small exploding sun. I
don't think you are close with 2x10^17 terawatts.
Graham Kennedy
In article <01bc96d8$852925e0$a0aa61ce@stapp>, FUBAR <no...@vvm.com>
writes
>From a Trekkie to another Trekkie:
Well, that's "Mistake" number one. Since you haven't a clue what is
going on in Startrek, you are clearly no Trekkie.
>Anyway:
>
>If it weren't for SW us trekkies wouldn't have the episodes you're watching
>on tv now.
>
>SW would have been made irregardless of rather ST exist or not.
Possibly.
>And as for Rodenberry - He's a great writter and I don't know of anyone
>that is as sucessful consecutively as he has, However, he has made nothing
>to impress Lucas ( and if you can remember ST was unpopulour not just with
>the networks but with the tv audiance of it days. Read it's history! You'll
>know.)
Startrek was already popular in syndication by the time Starwars was
made - so popular that another series was literally days from filming
when Starwars came out. Mistake number two.
>Mr.Lucas was impress by the old Buck Rogers and Flash Gorden
>serials of the 30-40's. If anything Lucas was motivated by, it was 2001.
>NOT Kirk.
Lucas had already written Starwars when 2001 came out. Mistake number
three.
>SW was believeable and don't have shiny saucer, smooth surface nor does
>it's weapon fire power in line with a "ray" gun (al'a star trek beam (ray)
>phaser )
Ever seen the Death Stars main weapon fire? If that isn't a ray gun, I
don't know what is. Mistake number four.
>Today ST is overly blown out of proportion with politically correct
>episodes and men in tights.
So what? You got something against tights? :)
>Mothers taking charge of ships
You think Mothers are incompetent? Is this all of them, or just yours in
particular? She sure seems to have done a bad job with you...
> and men doing a
>womens job.
Just what exactly is a "womens job"? I'd love to hear a list from you.
Go on, I just DARE you to post a reply to this listing what "womens
jobs" are and what "mens jobs" are.
Tell you what, give me just FIVE important thing that no woman is
capable of doing better than you can. Just five. If you don't, everybody
will know that you can't think of any and we'll all know that women are
better at EVERYTHING than you are.
> Blacks, Asians Eskimo's ect. captainning the ship at every
>different episodes. ( Yes - there's nothing wrong with this - but the point
>is : ST is made to please politics ( especially liberals) not for realistic
>enjoyment. )
And presumably this pleases you, since there is nothing wrong with it?
Or are you just a raging hypocrite?
>Not to mention Wulf, wolf or what'ever his name is - having
>sex/relationship with the main female cast member ( Alien and human?) This
>is as close to Beastiality as you can get on TV. I don't care what anyone
>says - interacial between human is Okay by me but ST has gone too far.
This is probably the most hilarious piece of crap in the whole dungheap!
You claim to be a Trekkie, but you don't even know Worfs name! Mistake
number five.
And you don't even know that Jadzia Dax is not a human being? She's a
Trill! I know they've only had three or four episodes dedicated to it,
and mentioned it in about twenty others, so it might not have got
through to you yet. Let me try:
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN! SHE IS NOT HUMAN!
Got it yet? Mistake number six.
>I like both of these shows but,
How can you like them when you clearly don't watch them?
> Let's face it SW is in a catagory of it's
>own. It's Not made to be shown on a TV and Star trek was never written to
>be shown in a theater.
Starwars is in the category of "morality play with big special effects
and a plot simple enough to appeal to children". That puts it in with
the likes of "Independance Day" or "Jurassic Park" - an entertaining way
to spend a couple of hours, and nothing more.
--
Graham Kennedy
Rob Alexander
In article <Pine.OSF.3.95.970722132121.7052D-100000@rabat>,
"P.S.Cotterell" <fn94...@ecs.pc.Cranfield.ac.uk> writes
>On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Robert Denier wrote:
>
>> > >
>> > > And before anyone starts about other Sci-Fi TV series
>> > > that pre-empted Trek. Trek was the first TV Sci_Fi
>> > > programme aimed at adults.
>> > >
>>
>>
>> Kennedy's assasination (I think). This is before Star Trek.
>>
>> -Robert
>
>The day after, in fact (23rd November). Although "aimed at adults" might
>be open to debate...
Dr Who was originaly an educational children's program. However, the
creators changed their minds by the second story.
--
Rob Alexander Remove NOSPAM to reply
Wise man say: Better to light a candle,
than to curse the dark.
Les Duff
I take you missed the post about Mary Shelley?
Apparantley she wrote the first Sci_fi novel
Frankenstein.
Jester
Les Duff
I apologise. I was wrong.
Doc Who was first.
Jester
Les Duff
David Charlap wrote:
> One answer comes from the novesl (yes, I know. Paramount does not
> consider the Trek novels part of the same timeline as the TV/movie
> episodes...)
>
It always amazes me how in most time distortion
stories the Federation is unaffected.
Whether it be novel, comic or TV episode.
Jester
Les Duff
Have you ever actually watched Trek, Bab 5 or read
any Sci-Fi comics or books?
I have read history more than you.
Yes Trek was cancelled because it didn't get ratings
and the studio where unhappy.
The reason being that the TV audience at the time
didn't understand Trek.
As much as I enjoy Star Wars, it is nothing more than
a good old fashioned western in space. Both Trek and
Bab 5 try to tackle issues that are relevant today.
I honestly think that Trek etc is beyond your
comprehesion and you would be far happier watching
John Wayne blowing shit out of the Germans / Indians
/ Japanese.
I get the impression that you are nothing more than a
racist bigoted pig.
I will not deem myself to answer any more of your
inane crap.
Hasselhoff
FUBAR <no...@vvm.com> wrote in article
<01bc96d8$852925e0$a0aa61ce@stapp>...
> From a Trekkie to another Trekkie:
>
> >> Before you Flame me on my Spelling, I apologize. My spell checker is
not
> installed since it was corrupted <<
>
> Anyway:
>
> If it weren't for SW us trekkies wouldn't have the episodes you're
watching
> on tv now.
>
Why not? Reruns of TOS were extremely popular even 2 years after the show
ended. Besides, SW made more people watch scifi stuff, but I don't
consider ST as true scifi. I think it's better.
> SW would have been made irregardless of rather ST exist or not.
So? The sitcom "Friends" would have been made, even if the sitcom "Full
House" hadn't been. I don't think "Friends" made "Full House" any more
popular or watchable, however.
>
> And as for Rodenberry - He's a great writter and I don't know of anyone
> that is as sucessful consecutively as he has, However, he has made
nothing
> to impress Lucas ( and if you can remember ST was unpopulour not just
with
> the networks but with the tv audiance of it days. Read it's history!
You'll
> know.) Mr.Lucas was impress by the old Buck Rogers and Flash Gorden
> serials of the 30-40's. If anything Lucas was motivated by, it was 2001.
> NOT Kirk.
Again, so? I don't see how this matters. Roddenberry wasn't influenced by
Luke Skywalker, either. (However, I'd say someone on the SW writing staff
watched TOS; I mean, PROTON torpedoes? Come on!)
>
> SW was believeable and don't have shiny saucer, smooth surface nor does
> it's weapon fire power in line with a "ray" gun (al'a star trek beam
(ray)
> phaser )
Yeah, it was SO believeable: far away, long ago, this huge bad empire
ruled the galaxy, and the most powerful people are sorcerers with an
advanced form of magic. Oh, and of course, they have engineers who design
space stations the size of moons that can be destroyed by a single torpedo
the size of my TV. It's just hard to tell where the movie ends and real
life starts, alright.
>
> Today ST is overly blown out of proportion with politically correct
> episodes and men in tights. Mothers taking charge of ships and men doing
a
> womens job. Blacks, Asians Eskimo's ect. captainning the ship at every
> different episodes. ( Yes - there's nothing wrong with this - but the
point
> is : ST is made to please politics ( especially liberals) not for
realistic
> enjoyment. ) Not to mention Wulf, wolf or what'ever his name is - having
> sex/relationship with the main female cast member ( Alien and human?)
This
> is as close to Beastiality as you can get on TV. I don't care what anyone
> says - interacial between human is Okay by me but ST has gone too far.
And
> I can't understand all the fake mumbo -jumbo sci-fi techno crap they keep
> inventing every episodes.
>
Once again, so? What's wrong with diversity? You don't actually think the
entire Starfleet of the galaxy would only have American and English
officers, do you? Aren't there MORE non-caucasions on Earth now, not
counting all of the other races in the Federation?
And as for the Worf/Dax relationship: I've never thought of it like that.
I guess it takes someone with their mind in the gutter to point something
like that out.
> I like both of these shows but, Let's face it SW is in a catagory of it's
> own. It's Not made to be shown on a TV and Star trek was never written to
> be shown in a theater.
Then why is the trilogy shown on USA and SciFi every couple of months, and
ST has had 8 movies in the theater, with another on the way?
Celes
>> "Hisssisssissss I grow weary of the wait to sssee my ssspecies'sss
return".
>> Massster of Gorn dedicated VGA Planets player.
>Doing a good Gorn would be expensive, the one on TOS would look pretty
>bad today. But hell, DS9 has tons of cash. What kind of a Gorn-friendly
>pettition can we whip up and send to Paramount?
An interesting possibiity (and we should have done this a year ago, for the
30 aniversary) would be to have the Gorn, the blue race with antanie, the
telepathic race from The Cage, that race that can spin the red space web to
trap invaders, and all the other races team together for a massive
counter-offensive against the Dominion. (Kind of like what B5 did with the
League of Non-Aligned Worlds)
It's probaly too late now, but oh well.
BTW send me any info on a Pro-Gorn pettiton (by e-mail)
--
-Celes
ce...@deskmedia.com
Any/all replies flaming spelling and/or grammar
will be ignored because it is an obvious sign that the
flamer has no real ideas.
"If they don't understand, we will make them understand!"
-Ambassador Delenn-Babylon 5
"...Anything that gets in the way... disappears."
-John Sheridan-Babylon 5
"We are everywhere... for your convenience."
-Bester-Babylon 5.
Stephen wrote in article <33CE35...@psu.edu>...
>darc' wrote:
>>
>> "Hisssisssissss I grow weary of the wait to sssee my ssspecies'sss
return".
>>
>> Massster of Gorn dedicated VGA Planets player.
>
>Doing a good Gorn would be expensive, the one on TOS would look pretty
>bad today. But hell, DS9 has tons of cash. What kind of a Gorn-friendly
>pettition can we whip up and send to Paramount?
>