Why didn't Luke cut Vader's arm off?
Felton Shelley
All right, everyone, this has been bugging me for a long time, and a post on
another thread made me think of it again. In TESB, Luke and vader are
dueling with their lightsabers, and Luke hits Vader on the shoulder with his
lightsaber. However, this does nothing but _really_ tick Vader off, and
Vader's next stroke slices through a railing. Now, I know you could say
that you really have to swing hard in order to chop through something, but
Luke was swinging pretty hard, and usually a lightsaber just chops right
through stuff. So, what's up? Am I missing something? Is this a mistake?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
later,
Felton
W. Erik Black
>Hi all,
Vader is an extremely powerful Force-user. If you recall, he deflected a
blaster bolt, another kind of energy, with his hand. Admittedly, a lightsaber
is much more powerful, but it is also augmented by the power of its user.
Vader's skill was greater than that of Luke's, so he was able to partially
deflect the blow without losing his arm.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Black
man...@iastate.edu My hood ornament is a spider alien.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mariusz Jesmanowicz
>
> Well, then how in RTJ did Luke hack off Vadar's arm at the end?
>It must have just been a foul up in the continuity of the movie the guys
>watching these things must not have been awake or saw TESB when George
>showed them the script
Did you see how hard Luke was hitting in ROJ. Not only he cut off his
hand but also that metal stand that Vader was leaning on.
in ESB he hardly hit him with the saber. It is just like with a regylar
sword, if you use hard you might cut someone in have but if you just
hit him light, he might only has a small scretch.
-=Mario=-
Mariusz Jesmanowicz
As we already talked about it, Vader has some kind of an armor, that is
why you see sparks flying from that hit. Some people say he is
using the force but I don't think so it is just an armor, but saber can
panetrate, Luke would have to hit him a little bit harder.
William Yuen Wai Lee
>In <ShelleyFS96%cs27.26....@Cadetmail.usafa.af.mil> ShelleyFS96%cs...@Cadetmail.usafa.af.mil (Felton Shelley) writes:
>>Hi all,
>>All right, everyone, this has been bugging me for a long time, and a post on
>>another thread made me think of it again. In TESB, Luke and vader are
>>dueling with their lightsabers, and Luke hits Vader on the shoulder with his
>>lightsaber. However, this does nothing but _really_ tick Vader off, and
>>Vader's next stroke slices through a railing. Now, I know you could say
>>that you really have to swing hard in order to chop through something, but
>>Luke was swinging pretty hard, and usually a lightsaber just chops right
>>through stuff. So, what's up? Am I missing something? Is this a mistake?
I always thought that was a really cool scene because of the sparks a
flying and Vader lets out a "Aaarrrggh!" when it happens. .r
I think his arm was not cut off because at this point Luke is
exhausted and all he can do is defend himself from Vader's blows y
so when Vader is struck, it is only a tap from Luke's sabre.
Of course, it is also obvious that Vader has much better armour
than any stormtrooper would ever have access to. :)
k
.
--
William Lee (wl...@sfu.ca)
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, BC, Canada
Ernie Oporto
ShelleyFS96%cs...@Cadetmail.usafa.af.mil (Felton Shelley) says:
>
>All right, everyone, this has been bugging me for a long time, and a post on
>another thread made me think of it again. In TESB, Luke and vader are
>dueling with their lightsabers, and Luke hits Vader on the shoulder with his
>lightsaber. However, this does nothing but _really_ tick Vader off
It just impacted on the surface.
--- Ernie "Shokk" Oporto
Women who want equality must be prepared to give it and believe in it, and in
order to do that it is not enough to state that you are as good as any man,
but also it must be stated he is as good as you and both will be humans
together. -- Anne Roiphe
_____/ ____ / / eao...@psuvm.psu.edu
/ / \ / / sh...@eao102.sip.psu.edu
_____ ____ _ _ eao...@cac.psu.edu
\ \ \ opo...@cse.psu.edu
\______/ __ __ \______/ __ \___ __ \___ sh...@psu.edu
Sturm
: As we already talked about it, Vader has some kind of an armor, that is
: why you see sparks flying from that hit. Some people say he is
: using the force but I don't think so it is just an armor, but saber can
: panetrate, Luke would have to hit him a little bit harder.
Well, then how in RTJ did Luke hack off Vadar's arm at the end?
It must have just been a foul up in the continuity of the movie the guys
watching these things must not have been awake or saw TESB when George
showed them the script
--
_________________________________________________________________________
| _____________________________________ | St...@Clark.Net |
| / ____ _______ _ _ ___ _ _ \ |---------------------------|
| | / __||__ __|| | | || \ | \__/ | | | Linocomm BBS (410)426-9359|
| | \__ \ | | | |_| || / | | | | 40+megs of Demos |
| | |____/ |_| |_____||_|\_\|_|\__/|_| | | 15+megs of Raytracing |
| \_______________________________________/ | 400+ megs online |
| | CD-ROM Online |
|_____________________________________________|___________________________|
USE...@mr.net
ShelleyFS96%cs...@Cadetmail.usafa.af.mil (Felton Shelley) wrote:
If anyone takes "Splinter of the minds eye" into consideration, didn't Luke
or Leia remove Vader's arm?
Wade
Glenn Saunders
In ANH, Luke really doesn't use the lightsaber at all. Is it Obi Wan's
OWN Lightsaber he uses on Vader or is that Anakin's?
Anyway, that aside, it is intersting to remember that in ESB, Luke is
fighting Vader with Vader's OWN old lightsaber (Anakin's).
This is an intersting thought, because it is almost like Luke, using
Anakin's sword, represents Anakin in his good youth rejuvenated, to take
revenge upon his corrupted self. His own lightsaber returning from the
past with an idealistic son wielding it for good.
If you think about it, how would you react had you been corrupted? The
SYMBOLISM of the lightsaber as a _bridge_ between the two?
In ROJ, for Luke to complete his individuation, and to replace his lost
Sabre, he builds his own, which is mentioned in ROJ. But not actually
shown being built. It may be that Vader decided to remove Luke's arm to
get rid of the SYMBOL of Vader's GOOD past.
If you were a Jedi Knight akin to a medieval knight, that represented
very high morals, and a medieval sword of high individualness and quality
has strong symbolic power as a force of good. Even though cutting off
Luke's hand was a drastic measure, it could be Vader was pushed over by
the frustration of being fought with his old light sabre as if if the
PAST itself was stinging him like a curse. Reminding him with every
swing of his fall from grace.
Joost A. Korpel, User
If you watch ESB you will see a lot of inconsistencies in how the light sabers
are used. Its pretty obvious to me that the light saber was never meant as a
single handed weapon like a foil or cutlass, but true to its spiritual nature
it is more like a Japanese Katana, a two handed weapon. I may be wrong but I
believe that in ROTJ they always used two hands on Light Sabers. Chalk it up
to flakey directing.
As far as cutting Vaders arm off, as anyone in the martial arts will tell you,
slicing through an object with an "elegant" (Obi's words) weapon, as opposed
to say a battle axe, is more a matter of mental focus rather then brute force,
and this is probably even more so when using the Force. Its very hard to keep
mental focus when you are tired and disoriented in a fight and those wild
swings of Luke's may have kept Darth at a distance but they were NOT effective
strikes.
In ROTJ Luke has learned to mentally focus himself during battle, and it seems
he has finally learned the correct way to use his light sabre (two handed).
This time when he fights Vader the blows are much harder due to this mental
focus and control of the force. For those of you that do not believe in the
power of mental focus just watch any video footage of a Bruce Lee
demonstration and watch how he can knock a man off his feet with a punch that
starts only 2 inches from the chest, this is not strength folks!
Why did he succede in cutting Vadeer's hand off in ROTJ and not ESB? Three
reasons: 1) Training; 2) Mental Focus; and 3) the arm above the wrist is
narrower and appears to have less armour protecting it then the shoulder.
---------------------------------------------------
Joost A. Korpel, Research Geologist
Iowa Department of Natural Resources
Geological Survey Bureau
Geographic Information Section
Iowa City, IA, USA
e-mail: jko...@gsbth-po.igsb.uiowa.edu
Things are more like today then they have ever been
in the past. Dr. Richard Hoppin, Geology Professor
----------------------------------------------------
Lemming
Luke probably didn't want to get his saber caught so he pulled up in
midswing to get back into position. It was a lucky, accidental hit --
if he had known Vader was going to be in that position he would have
followed through, but Luke had no idea. The guy's a goober; what do
you expect.
I guess them fencin' classes did pay off, eh?
> later,
> Felton
--
"Zebras are reactionary Antelopes are missionaries
Pigeons plot in secrecy and Hamsters turn on frequently..."
-- Paul Simon, "At the Zoo"
(and the Lemmings are just plain odd)
Mariusz Jesmanowicz
About this mental focus, it might be true but when it comes to
Bruce Lee and his 1 and 3 inch punch, you are wrong. If you read
more about Bruce and his techniques you will see how energetic
he was, how fast and also how strong, even though he was small.
He said that you have to follow through with the puch, which
means not just stop when you hit the surface but go even further
this is what Luke didn't do in ESB and also to use the entire
arm or even body on that punch the more mass the more force you
have F=ma. But that is just on the side.Luke didn't cut Vader's arm
because he did not put enough force in to it and i don't mean the Force,
but the strength.
Joost A. Korpel
>From: jesm...@sun26.cs.wisc.edu (Mariusz Jesmanowicz)
>Subject: Re: Why didn't Luke cut Vader's arm off?
>Date: 29 Apr 1994 03:46:59 GMT
>About this mental focus, it might be true but when it comes to
>Bruce Lee and his 1 and 3 inch punch, you are wrong.
I disagree. It is true that Bruce Lee said to follow through on the punch,
actually he said you should punch at a point 1 inch beyond your intended
target. In my own martial art, Aikido, I have seen a 70 year old master (Doshu
- for you Aikido types) who weighs perhaps 140lbs and is arguably not the
strongest person in the world hit men twice his size, who were rushing
head on, and throw them off their feet backwards. Clearly the man rushing
him had much more mass and acceleration and if I you believe strictly in
Physics, F=ma then he should have been flattened! But he wasn't, and its
because of his mental focus.
Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing against the physics of this. You say that
Bruce Lee used his entire body while he punched, and its true but that doesn't
mean he threw his body mass into the punch, doing that would cause him to
lunge forward and if you watch bruce closely with his 1 inch punch you will
see very little body movement. What he was doing is focusing his entire
body's energy into and out through his fist with mental focus.
I could go own with this but frankly, people that have never experienced this
will never believe it. I suggest you try the following example, commonly used
to train students in Aikido; face a friend a little less then an arms length
away. Place your arm on your friends shoulder directly accross from you (right
arm on left shoulder) with your wrist contacting the shoulder. Then use all
your strength to keep your arm straight and ask your friend to bend your arm
at the elbow till it collapses. Your friend can use both his (or her, I don't
want to appear sexist) hands and his body weight if he wishs. Unless your
Arnold Scwharzinager, your arm will collapse. Now try the experiment again,
only this time focus your eyes at a point just beyond your friend. Concentrate
on the image of water running up through your body and out your arm and
fingers, as if your arm was a fire hose. Keep your arm relaxed, do not lock
your elbow and do not tighten your muscles (this is the hardest part for
beginners). Once you are completely focused ask your friend to try and
collapse your arm again, if you are doing this correctly it will be impossible.
If you ever have an opportunity to see an Aikido demonstration do it. Its like
no other martial art you've ever seen. I've said all I want to on this subject
as it seems we are straying away from SW and there is probably a martial arts
usenet this discussion would be more appropriate to.
May the Force be with you friend!
Son of Stan
: All right, everyone, this has been bugging me for a long time, and a post on
I have read the other posts, but my line of thought has always been this way--
I love the scene, and the sound (I like to express it as a kind of "MAAAWWWW")
Vader makes. I tend to believe that it was a glancing blow. If I recall
correctly, Vader is ducking to the side when the impact hits. I thought
that the saber did not go in the direction to cut THROUGH the shoulder,
but instead cut along it. This would cause pain, hence the scream, but not
cut it off.
M.D.
--
____________________________________________________________________
Matthew I. Dworkin | matt.d...@launchpad.unc.edu
Wharton '97 | dwor...@wharton.upenn.edu
E.H. Comp. Lab Manager 1994-95 | ro...@genie.resnet.upenn.edu
Also known as Prufrock and Dante | prufrock@genie and dante@genie
--------------------------------------------------------------------
John Hagerman
:
: ... it is intersting to remember that in ESB, Luke is
:
: This is an intersting thought, because it is almost like Luke, using
: Anakin's sword, represents Anakin in his good youth rejuvenated, to take
: revenge upon his corrupted self. His own lightsaber returning from the
: past with an idealistic son wielding it for good.
: In ROJ, for Luke to complete his individuation, and to replace his lost
: shown being built. It may be that Vader decided to remove Luke's arm to
: get rid of the SYMBOL of Vader's GOOD past.
:
: If you were a Jedi Knight akin to a medieval knight, that represented
: very high morals, and a medieval sword of high individualness and quality
: has strong symbolic power as a force of good. Even though cutting off
: Luke's hand was a drastic measure, it could be Vader was pushed over by
: the frustration of being fought with his old light sabre as if if the
: PAST itself was stinging him like a curse. Reminding him with every
: swing of his fall from grace.
Very interesting thoughts. A slightly different take is that Luke's
use of his father's sabre is symbolic of Luke's potential to follow
his father down the path to the dark side. Given this interpretation,
when Vader chopped off Luke's hand, _Vader was helping Luke to avoid
Anakin's fate_! Was it unintentional? Did Vader know subconsciously
what was best for Luke (separating Luke from Anakin's sabre symbolic
for allowing Luke to follow a different path)?
- John
Les Armistead
Date: 27 Apr 94 11:58:03 CST
In article <1994Apr27...@wkuvx2.wku.edu> Lemming,
seb...@wkuvx1.wku.edu writes:
>In article <ShelleyFS96%cs27.26....@Cadetmail.usafa.af.mil>,
>ShelleyFS96%cs...@Cadetmail.usafa.af.mil (Felton Shelley) writes:
>> Hi all,
>>
post on
>> another thread made me think of it again. In TESB, Luke and vader are
>> dueling with their lightsabers, and Luke hits Vader on the shoulder
with his
>> lightsaber. However, this does nothing but _really_ tick Vader off,
and
>> Vader's next stroke slices through a railing. Now, I know you could
say
>> that you really have to swing hard in order to chop through something,
but
>> Luke was swinging pretty hard, and usually a lightsaber just chops
right
>> through stuff. So, what's up? Am I missing something? Is this a
mistake?
>> Thoughts? Suggestions?
Guys, its really quite simple. If you pay close attention to what Luke
is doing when he takes the shot at Vader's arm, you'll notice that he is
moving in the opposite direction from the swing he's taking with the
blade. I've taken fencing and I've also had some experience with
two-handed weapons and, laser cutting ability or no, if you move in the
opposite direction from your strike you will not get penetration with the
blade unless you compensate befoehand. Luke was a little frazzled at the
time. No great mystery.
Bye
Atul Varma
armor on... it was kinda like when Vader used the force to hurl things at
Luke; the first object he hurled at him, Luke turned around and sliced at
it, but it didn't chop in half; it just kinda got hurt or somethin' :).
So, I'd assume that Vader's arm was also made of metal so it just kinda
hurt HIM... :)
Atul
--
[ Atul Varma | Sysop, StarBase Mintaka BBS (614)442-7779 ]
[ at...@bronze.coil.com | Files dealing with Programming, Sci-Fi, ]
[ Columbus, Ohio, U.S.A. | Raytraces, Fractals, and graphics demos ]
[ MACINTOSH SUCKS!! | 500 MB online, 300-14.4k BPS, SHS BBS 3.2 ]