Anyone LOVE ROTJ at first, THEN hate it?
Victory A. Marasigan
I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
well into my teenage years.
Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
Opinions?
Victory A. Marasigan
M.A. Kribble
On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Victory A. Marasigan wrote:
>
> I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
> minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
> well into my teenage years.
> Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
I know exactly what you mean. I think it was because I was able to be
very excited about RotJ's release. When my parents took me to see ESB I
was 5 and that was my intro to the SW universe. When Jedi came out, I'd
played with all the toys, seen ANH on video, loved the characters, and read
the storybook before I saw the movie (yeah, I spoiled the twins
revelation for myself AND my Dad, I think)--I knew what I was going
into and loved it--the finality of the happy ending was what did it, I
think.
I thought Jedi was the best until sometime during HS, when I started to
agree with my Dad that ANH--being the classic and the original--was the
best.
Since I've been in college, I've decided that ESB is the masterpiece, ANH
the classic, and RotJ the not-as-impressive happy ending.
> I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
> flaws?
I don't know why it is either. I think that for me I realized how
incredible ESB is and that RotJ isn't much more than a re-hash of ANH.
And that I didn't have any special fondness for ewoks. Yes, the last
part comes from RASSM somewhat, but I disliked the ewok movies when they
first came out, so that counts for something...
> Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
> tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
> Opinions?
:( The only thing I can suggest is that you try to enjoy it as much as
possible--try to remember what you like about it in the first place, see
it with kids maybe. Good luck!
-----
Meg
(-o-)
Non-cool ORS&GC
Travis C. Porco
In article <5fqbga$e...@camel1.mindspring.com>,
Chuck Fullerton <nou...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>"Victory A. Marasigan" <vma...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>>I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
>>minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
>>well into my teenage years.
> I totally agree. I feel the same way. The first time I saw it back
>in 1983 it felt like a trip to Disneyworld. Now I look at Han behaving
>like a dork and just shake my head. Lucas and Kasdan should have come
>up with something more original than another Death Star. Someone on this
>group suggested a raid on Coruscant, and I think that would have been
>great.
Well, I haven't seen it in a long time (can barely wait until next Friday!).
But I think people are being too hard on ROTJ. I don't recall Han behaving
like a dork; next week we can discuss specific examples.
As far as a new Death Star, it's logical for the Empire to build a new
and improved version. The first one was very nearly an invincible weapon
that would have guaranteed that the Iron Boot would stamp down the galaxy
forever. Its destruction must have been some very bad, embarassing PR for
the Empire. That they would fix the flaws and get a new one up and blasting
ASAP makes good sense.
But a raid on Coruscant would have been interesting, if it could have been
made plausible. There must be a lot of heavy shielding, ion cannons, and
who knows what else, defending that planet.
--Travis Porco
Travis C. Porco
In article <5fqe28$p...@newssvr02-int.news.prodigy.com>,
Rhett Neilson <ACC...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>Personally I love A new hope the best....since ben plays a more prominate
>role
I like this aspect of ANH too.
>I dind't like ROJ because of the Ewoks.....they ruined the film
I didn't think so at all, but let's discuss the Ewoks more next week after
the Special Edition.
--Travis
Daniel
Victory A. Marasigan wrote:
>
> I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
> minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
> well into my teenage years.
>
> flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
> movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
>
> tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
>
> Opinions?
>
When's the last time you actually watched it? It's a lot better than you
give it credit for. Just overlook such things like burping frogs and
Chewbacca yelling like Tarzan. Stop looking for what you don't like
about the movie and enjoy what you like about it- hmm. that sounds
kinda' Yoda-like. I myself have always found it to be the most
atmospheric of the movies and at times the most moving- i.e- the burning
of Vader.
Paul Ens
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.97030...@umbc10.umbc.edu>, "Victory
> I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved
> every minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it
> as such well into my teenage years.
>
> Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the
> film, and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to
> see ROTJ's flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative
> opinions about the movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
My story is very similar to yours, except that I wouldn't go so far as to say
I hate it.
I was 12 in 1983 and thought Jedi was the ultimate film of the ultimate
trilogy. It's now my least favorite of the three, but I don't think I'll ever
hate the film.
Luke jumping off the skiff, grabbing it and jumping back up in time to catch
his lightsaber remains my favorite moment in film history. It's impossible for
me to watch it without smiling. The Vader - Luke duel at the end is still
great eye candy.
At 12, I thought the similarities between it's plot and ANH were cool, now I
wish it were slightly more original. The ewoks are too cute, but I still buy
the vision of nature vs technology.
I don't hate the film, but I don't love it as I once did.
=====================================================
Paul Ens (Paul...@sasknet.sk.ca)
Visit the "Star Wars:Special Edition Annotations":
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/6251
Mark Cox
Victory A. Marasigan wrote:
>
> I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
> minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
> well into my teenage years.
>
> Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
> and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
> flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
> movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
>
> tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Victory A. Marasigan
I have the same problem. ROTJ has always been my favorite, but people
say I'm stupid for liking it. I think everyone loved Jedi when they
were little because of the action, i can't even recall the number of
times i went outside and reinacted the "Sarlacc" scene. Me being Luke
of course. but when we get older we look at things too hard, we see too
many little flaws. I don't know why people hate Jedi, maybe its because
Boba Fett dies........
Eplicon
> My story is very similar to yours, except that I wouldn't go so far as
to say
> I hate it.
> I was 12 in 1983 and thought Jedi was the ultimate film of the ultimate
trilogy.
> It's now my least favorite of the three, but I don't think I'll ever
hate the film.
That's how I would sum it up myself today. When I saw ROTJ in June of
'83, I had just completed my freshman year in high school. When you're at
that age, movie excitement and action is all you really care about. Story
is somewhat secondary.
Back in those days, I regarded action/adventure movies my favorite type;
today I prefer dramatic and classic films (although I still like to
indulge in nonsensical blockbusters now and again).
For me, at the time, I actually rated ROTJ above both SW and TESB! And it
was largely for the reason I stated above. I loved the action (especially
in the film's last half hour, where everything zooms around at a fun and
maddening pace). I loved the special f/x (the speeder bike chase on a
70mm screen was far more fun than I had ever dreamed, as were the final
space battles). The Ewoks didn't bother me too much then or now, but
still wish that the Empire was taken down by good old fashioned Rebel
fortitude like in the first film. Among this, and Luke becoming a Jedi,
it was that surprise happy ending that made me think highly of the film.
I left the theatre in a great mood. In fact, I thought highly of ROTJ
enough to see it 7 times theatrically, whereas I only saw SW and TESB four
times each (that is, until the SE re-release).
But as I stated some time ago, it only took me one year to re-evaluate
that. In 1984, I bought TESB when it came out on video (cost me $84 and
broke me for the rest of the year <g>). When I saw TESB again, I had
forgotten how smart of a film it really was compared to ROTJ. I realized
all flash and the lack of substance didn't make ROTJ the great flick I
thought it was. The mythology that ROTJ presented was watery and shallow
compared to its predecessors. The concept is still there, but didn't have
the same awe and wonder. The storytelling also lacked some of the
narrative flow that made the first two more compelling. Some of the
things (like the loose ends) were wrapped up a little too neatly at times,
but then again, Lucas only had two hours to tell it.
---
/-Jack
epl...@aol.com
ra...@genie.com
ra...@compuserve.com
Edward Lee
Victory A. Marasigan (vma...@gl.umbc.edu) wrote:
:
: I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
: minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
: well into my teenage years.
:
: Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
: and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
: flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
: movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
:
: Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
: tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
:
: Opinions?
This is pretty much identical to my experience. I think a lot of
it has to do with the fact that I was older when Jedi was released, so I
was able to appreciate it a bit more. I loved the space battles, the
speeder bikes and the final lightsabre duel, mostly. But around first
year of university, I really started liking Empire much more. Previously
the Dagobah training scenes kind of bored me and I thought it really
slowed the film down. Now, I can't get enough of Yoda (especially when
Yoda and R2 fight over the flashlight). I also loved Hoth and the
lightsabre duel from day one. Later, I really enjoyed Leia and Han's
relationship. My love for Empire was only magnified as my interest in
Williams' music grew (love that Han and Leia theme). Simultaneously, I
started seeing flaws in the script as well as a few performances in Jedi.
I was totally unsatisfied at how Leia was written in (she had so much
character potential, but it was ALL wasted) as well as the absence of
Han's smarmy lines. *shrug* Even though I still love it, it has
definitely declined relative to Empire and ANH.
--
=) Ed
=========================================================================
"When I open my eyes, I must sigh... I must despise the world
which does not know that music is a higher revelation than all wisdom
and philosophy."
- Ludwig van Beethoven
=========================================================================
Matty
I can certainly understand everyone's problem with ROTJ. I see the flaws
which everyone loves to point out, and I recognize the sort of artistic
superiority of the other two films.
BUT, that aside, I must admit that ROTJ is still my favorite. I guess
I'm a sucker for big climaxes, and the three part battle we see at the
end of Jedi is about as big as it gets. And, certainly, there is IMHO
no scene in the trilogy to compare to the moment when Vadar picks up the
emperor to throw him over the side. Just thinking about it--the music
change and all--I get goosebumps.
I don't really want to get involved in a debate--I recognize the flaws. But
because of the child in me, I love the movie anyway.
Matty Silverstein
mesi...@unix.amherst.edu
P.S. Plus, the moment when Leia tells Han that Luke is her sister . . .
moment. I love the look on Harrison Ford's face.
Rimrunner
I think "hate" is too strong a word, at least where I'm concerned.
A lot of people have pointed to the acting in RotJ, and it's true that the
actors were mostly going through the motions. The performances in ANH and
ESB weren't stellar, but the actors did give it a pretty good shot. But,
let's face it. Star Wars has never been about Oscar-winning performances.
Hamill ain't Olivier, but he doesn't have to be (and actually, having just
seen ESB:SE last night, I think he did do a damn good job given that he
spends most of the film interacting with puppets, robots and people
wearing masks).
There's quite a bit to like in RotJ, if you ask me. I still love the whole
throne room scene, even if the Emperor does ham it up (one explanation
I've heard for this is that Ian McDiarmid is primarily a stage actor), and
the RotJ space battle. I never did care much for the Ewoks or find them
all that plausible, although when I was 9 I did think they were funny.
The sail barge battle has some problems, yeah. I don't object in
particular to Boba Fett getting killed off, although the WAY he dies is,
yes, lame. Other than that, I still get a kick out of it. The beginning
sequence where Luke jumps off the plank, does his nifty backflip, and
catches his lightsaber is STILL cool as all hell. And so is Leia choking
Jabba. (Hey, I told y'all already...she was my first hero!)
ESB is still my favorite of the three, if I have to pick one of 'em. That
doesn't mean that the other two suck, fer godssakes.
Rimrunner
and yeah, i liked esb:se
--
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Bas-Jan Walewijk
Daniel <dbs1...@bayou.uh.edu> wrote in article <332120...@bayou.uh.edu>...
> When's the last time you actually watched it? It's a lot better than you
> give it credit for. Just overlook such things like burping frogs and
> Chewbacca yelling like Tarzan. Stop looking for what you don't like
> about the movie and enjoy what you like about it- hmm. that sounds
> kinda' Yoda-like. I myself have always found it to be the most
> atmospheric of the movies and at times the most moving- i.e- the burning
> of Vader.
Absolutely. The funeral pyre and the chorus on the final phase of the
lightsaber duel elevate it to greatness after all. Just not to the same
greatness as the other two, IMHO.
Bas-Jan
--
"Context is strawberries."
--
"Yesterday, some poor fellow was arrested in the rue Le Peletier -
on leaving the exhibition, he had begun biting the passers-by."
- review of the second Impressionist exhibition
--
Another genuine Official RASSM Cool Person. Beware imitations.
Mitchell Ting
On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Phil Mahoney wrote:
> Same story here. After waiting 3 years to resolve the cliffhanger, seeing
> Jedi that first night was the greatest movie theater experinence in my life.
> But I also have seen flaws since I've become a film
> geek/buff/snob/student/critic/cricket:
>
> The Ewoks suck. If I want to see that I'll watch the Care Bears.
I've heard a lot about the Ewoks. Now, aside from the fact that they do
seem too "likable", I personally don't see how they could be such a flaw
in the movie. Maybe I don't analyze and criticize the movie in every
little aspect, but hey it's still one helluva entertaining ride.
> The Emperor on the whole is cool, but he gets repetitive and ends up looking
> like an evil cartoon.
He didn't seem as sinister and menacing as ... say, Darth Vader.
> Other than the above 3 complaints, it's still my favourite of the three. The
> first half hour, the rescue of Han Solo is the greatest half hour in film
> history. And now that Jedi Rocks has replaced the dreadful Lapti Nek, it'll
> be even better.
For pure escapism, I would have to give that to ROTJ ... that movie's like
ANH on steriods. I was never a big fan of ESB ... I thought it felt too
slow in some parts.
--Mitch
Kentaro P Maeda
i'm sure a lot has to do with the way hip cool guys in the generation x
fave "clerks," when one guy (from what i've heard) say that "jedi was
nothing but muppets." of course, ewok-bashing is very in. seems to me like
a bandwagonning, no one wants to admit they don't think the ewoks are all
THAT bad, lest they get embarrassed and put down.
i think after a dark and somewhat depressing ESB, the third chapter just
simply had to be more uplifting, that's why we liked it so much as kids
(for those were kids anyway). but it had its dark element: luke's battle
with the dark side, and such. everyone thought lando shoulda died to make
it more "realistic." well, luke's saves his dad from the dark side, but he
dies. i just think it all worked out perfectly. for those who aren't
die hard fans, they may actually like esb the least, maybe it's not as
action-oriented. comparing my experience with the sw and esb crowds, there
weren't as many moments in esb where the crowd whooped and hollered, esp
after the 1st half (were there even such events?). i think there should be
a lot more throughout jedi tho (i dunno, it's been a while :) ).
rotj isn't citizen kane, but i think it's a lot of fun. and that's all
lucas wanted it to be, first and foremost. a fun crowd experience. don't
get so caught up in the "bad acting" or the "muppets," just enjoy it and
have fun :)
if you're with the right crowd, hopefully you'll walk out of the theater
with a better lasting impression of rotj (hopefully lucas didn't do
anything major to make it a _worse_ film...)
Ken
Phil Mahoney
Same story here. After waiting 3 years to resolve the cliffhanger, seeing
Jedi that first night was the greatest movie theater experinence in my life.
But I also have seen flaws since I've become a film
geek/buff/snob/student/critic/cricket:
The Ewoks suck. If I want to see that I'll watch the Care Bears.
The Emperor on the whole is cool, but he gets repetitive and ends up looking
like an evil cartoon.
Harrison Ford/Han Solo spends too many of his scenes mugging for the camera.
Maybe he's just excercising his face muscles after being in Carbonite for 6
months?
Other than the above 3 complaints, it's still my favourite of the three. The
first half hour, the rescue of Han Solo is the greatest half hour in film
history. And now that Jedi Rocks has replaced the dreadful Lapti Nek, it'll
be even better.
Phil :^/
Brian Linder
This is a really refreshing viewpoint on here fellas! I may have to
agree with both of you in some aspects!! I can't wait to see those
ewoks kicking some imperial ass!! : )
On Sat, 8 Mar 1997 18:44:06 -0800, Mitchell Ting <mkt...@uci.edu>
wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Phil Mahoney wrote:
>
>> Same story here. After waiting 3 years to resolve the cliffhanger, seeing
>> Jedi that first night was the greatest movie theater experinence in my life.
>> But I also have seen flaws since I've become a film
>> geek/buff/snob/student/critic/cricket:
>>
>> The Ewoks suck. If I want to see that I'll watch the Care Bears.
>
>I've heard a lot about the Ewoks. Now, aside from the fact that they do
>seem too "likable", I personally don't see how they could be such a flaw
>in the movie. Maybe I don't analyze and criticize the movie in every
>little aspect, but hey it's still one helluva entertaining ride.
>
>> The Emperor on the whole is cool, but he gets repetitive and ends up looking
>> like an evil cartoon.
>
>He didn't seem as sinister and menacing as ... say, Darth Vader.
>
>> Other than the above 3 complaints, it's still my favourite of the three. The
>> first half hour, the rescue of Han Solo is the greatest half hour in film
>> history. And now that Jedi Rocks has replaced the dreadful Lapti Nek, it'll
>> be even better.
>
>For pure escapism, I would have to give that to ROTJ ... that movie's like
>ANH on steriods. I was never a big fan of ESB ... I thought it felt too
>slow in some parts.
>
>--Mitch
>
Brian A. Linder
bli...@cg.net
--------------------------------------------------
Return of the Jedi Special Edition
March 14th, 1997
Live the magic!
Experience the power!
Feel the Force...like never before!
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.starwars.com
Atsushi Kanamori
>
>I have the same problem. ROTJ has always been my favorite, but people
>say I'm stupid for liking it. I think everyone loved Jedi when they
>were little because of the action, i can't even recall the number of
>times i went outside and reinacted the "Sarlacc" scene. Me being Luke
>of course. but when we get older we look at things too hard, we see too
>many little flaws. I don't know why people hate Jedi,
ROTJ could have been a bit more daring, dontcha think? Lucas
took a pretty big risk making ESB such a dark film with an
unresolved ending; and it did cost him some box office dollars
but once you get past that, ESB comes across as seminal in its
own way as ANH. ROTJ seemed too copycat in comparison; what with
another Death Star, another critter-fest display, the cut-and-paste
soundtrack and big celebration-ending.
Which made for a great first viewing, but once the nostalgia rush
passes, it's easy to see that ANH and ESB did all the foundation work and
ROTJ was largely a workmanlike tieup of the hornet's nest created by
the first two movies.
'Hate' is too strong a word to apply, though, in my case. I just don't
have the respect for it that I do for the first two films.
(btw, I think Boba Fett is completely overrated.)
.
.
Atsushi Kanamori
>I have the same problem. ROTJ has always been my favorite, but people
>say I'm stupid for liking it. I think everyone loved Jedi when they
>were little because of the action,
Actually, I liked it the first time because of (1) the whole Vader-Luke-ObiWan
angle which was a powerful story, and (2) because all the homages to ANH
and ESB brought up such great memories. As I said elsewhere, I regard
#2 as a weakness, now, not a strength.
And as for the much beloved (not) Ewoks, they were just too obviously
token little guy with the purest of heart for me to really get into them.
The idea of people prevailing over technology is fine as an concept
but I can't get interested in a bunch of characters who are introduced
into a story for no legitimate reason that to push that rather simple
and obvious message. I didn't care much about their equally obvious
merchandising angle, but it didn't help either.
.
.
Charles Polanski
Jedi was my favorite 14 years ago and remains my favorite to this day...
It's the largest of all three movies and Williams expands upon themes used
earlier in the trilogy masterfully while introducing the great Luke/Leia
theme, Emperor theme and now we get a new, supposedly amazing theme that
sets your heart flying, in the ROTJ SE.
Jabba is a great character, the EMperor is the most evil of all the Star
Wars characters, the death of Yoda is very moving and important to the
story "and now the last of the Jedi you will be..." I remeber crying during
that portion... I could go on and I have had spirited defenses of ROTJ in
the past but I'm tired of arguing which movie is the best... I enjoy all
three wholeheartedly
Gerthein Boersma
The one and only "Victory A. Marasigan" <vma...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
>minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
>well into my teenage years.
>Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
>and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
>flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
>movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
>Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
>tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
>Opinions?
I've defended Jedi more than enough, but okay, here I go again. This
is my final word on it until I've seen ROTJ:SE, though. Here goes.
Moreso than ANH and ESB, Jedi is immediatly satisfying on the lowest
level: it's fast, it's fun, and the good guys win big time. This is
why most fans loved it as a kid, and why Jedi is still a favorite
among mainstream audiences. Alas, young fans grow old, and now dislike
what they see as a kiddie movie. They make one flaw however: they
liked ANH and maybe ESB as kiddie movies too, yet found new elements
in them as they grew older, rekindling their love for the movies.
That's what's so great about the SW-trilogy: it's a lowest common
denominator in the best sense of the word, working on different levels
and satisfying on all of them. Jedi most certainly has enough elements
to satisfy the 'higher' levels, but people apparently fail to see
them. I don't know why, because I love Jedi. I think it's one of the
three best movies ever made. Here are just a few reasons why, and why
I think people disagree.
Jedi has some undeniable strong suits: First off, design is
incredible, with the Lamba-class shuttle and the imperial Royal Guards
looking beautifully sleek, and the Rancor, the Ewok-tree village and
the Scout Troopers also having a nice and appropriate look. Admiral
Ackbar and Jabba the Hutt also deserve a mention as great new
characters.
Music is, in my opinion, also the best of the trilogy. The beautifully
scored Vader-Luke duel, the dark Emperor's theme and segments such as
the Sarlacc-sequence, Yoda's death and Vader's funeral pyre come to
mind. It isn't a coincidence that the corresponding scenes have turned
out to be some of the best in the entire trilogy. Indeed, it often
seems as if people forget that ROTJ has as many of the best scenes,
lines and ideas of the trilogy as the other films do.
ROTJ has, I feel, also more depth than it's contractors would have you
believe. With Luke truly becoming a Jedi and Vader's beautiful
redemption, it certainly is more 'wholesome' than ANH, although it
can't match ESB's level of drama. It does bring back the enormous
scale of ANH though, with this time the fate of the galaxy hanging
firmly in the balance, and of course this is ultimatly what space
opera is all about. In fact, this is one of the things ESB, my
favorite movie of the trilogy, lacked when compared to the other two,
and that Jedi managed to bring it back to this level while still
maintaining at least some degree of ESB's depth is much to it's merit.
Of course, ROTJ is not flawless. The Ewoks, although in my opinion
grossly underrated, are obviously a little too cute, and the movie
suffers from occasionally biting off more than it can chew. Fans tend
to forget, however, that ANH and ESB aren't flawless either, and that
Jedi quite simply features some of the things the others lack. In
fact, that's way the films work so well as a trilogy.
Another reason why many people can't seem to muster as much
enthousiasm for ROTJ is I think because of all the films in the
trilogy, ROTJ suffers most from being watched on the small screen. I
fully expect to hear some more enthusiasm regarding Jedi when the SE
is released, as apart from fixing problems, only the big screen can
convey the Skiff battle or the fleet clash. Indeed, I think I may be
looking forward to the SE of ROTJ more than to any of the others (keep
in mind that, living in Europe, I've seen none of them at this point).
Lastly, make no mistake: the people who so dislike Jedi are not that
big a group, even among the die-hard fans. They are a vocal group,
yes, but the truth is most fans love Jedi, although they tend to
critisize it a lot because something has caused the general belief
that that is the way an intelligent fan should behave. Pity, for a
moment, those few fans who truly hate Jedi with a passion, for they
will never see a satisfactory conclusion of their favorite trilogy.
Imagine the frustration! ;-)
But only pity them for a moment, for the rest of the time should be
spent cheering over ROTJ's greatness, and biting nails in anticipation
of the re-release of the StarWars trilogy's phenomenal conclusion.
Now can I get an AMEN?
- Cool Gerthein
-----------------------
gert...@worldaccess.nl
-----------------------
Official RASSM Cool Person since 1997
Mitchell Ting
On 9 Mar 1997, Atsushi Kanamori wrote:
> And as for the much beloved (not) Ewoks, they were just too obviously
> token little guy with the purest of heart for me to really get into them.
> The idea of people prevailing over technology is fine as an concept
> but I can't get interested in a bunch of characters who are introduced
> into a story for no legitimate reason that to push that rather simple
> and obvious message. I didn't care much about their equally obvious
I agree that the Ewoks seem a little too "likable". But not every creature
encountered in another world *has* to be hostile. I don't remember a
written word about that. Maybe we've grown to think any foreign thing
can't be a little friendly. Although that "friendliness" in the Ewoks
might have been pushed up two notches too much.
But there is a legitimate reason for their introduction into the story.
It's not so much nature prevailing over technology ... although that is
the aspect being pushed by the forest fight scenes. Hey, this is Endor.
Another planet. A possibility for life forms. Hence, the introduction of
Ewoks. IMHO, I see no flaw with that ... just a part of an entertaining
storytelling.
--Mitch
Mitchell Ting
On 9 Mar 1997, Charles Polanski wrote:
> Jedi was my favorite 14 years ago and remains my favorite to this day...
> It's the largest of all three movies and Williams expands upon themes used
> earlier in the trilogy masterfully while introducing the great Luke/Leia
> theme, Emperor theme and now we get a new, supposedly amazing theme that
> sets your heart flying, in the ROTJ SE.
I guess what pulls me to like ROTJ is how some of the themes and twists
are resolved. Who would have thought Luke and Leia were siblings? The
throne room scene and the Vader/Luke duel still remains etched in my mind.
How about the new insights discovered from the little chat Luke and
Obi-Wan had at Dagobah? Or the scenes involving Luke and his dying father
and how Vader is finally redeemed? The Ewok scene is still pure fun, even
if those Ewoks are just way too "likable". And how about that space
battle? Whew! Can't forget Jabba too..
--Mitch
M.A. Kribble
On 8 Mar 1997, Matty wrote:
>
> P.S. Plus, the moment when Leia tells Han that Luke is her sister . . .
> moment. I love the look on Harrison Ford's face.
So do I. You just know he's thinking "so there ARE more like you at
home! Two to choose from!"
We all know what you meant. :)
At least we hope that's what you meant!
JamesG
Gerthein Boersma wrote:
> I've defended Jedi more than enough, but okay, here I go again. This
> is my final word on it until I've seen ROTJ:SE, though. Here goes.
<sigh> And we still haven't had ANH yet... Bummer.
<Snip>
> Jedi has some undeniable strong suits: First off, design is
> incredible, with the Lamba-class shuttle and the imperial Royal Guards
> looking beautifully sleek, and the Rancor, the Ewok-tree village and
> the Scout Troopers also having a nice and appropriate look. Admiral
> Ackbar and Jabba the Hutt also deserve a mention as great new
> characters.
Totally agree on the design, I'd also add the A-wings and B-wings, the
Mon-Cal cruisers, the surface of the Death Star and the tunnel...
<snip>
> ROTJ has, I feel, also more depth than it's contractors would have you
> believe. With Luke truly becoming a Jedi and Vader's beautiful
> redemption, it certainly is more 'wholesome' than ANH, although it
> can't match ESB's level of drama. It does bring back the enormous
> scale of ANH though, with this time the fate of the galaxy hanging
> firmly in the balance, and of course this is ultimatly what space
> opera is all about. In fact, this is one of the things ESB, my
> favorite movie of the trilogy, lacked when compared to the other two,
> and that Jedi managed to bring it back to this level while still
> maintaining at least some degree of ESB's depth is much to it's merit.
A little problem I have with RotJ is that we don't see 'the rest of the
galaxy' that is in the previous films, the bustle of Mos Eisley and
Cloud City, that there is life outside the main characters.
> Of course, ROTJ is not flawless. The Ewoks, although in my opinion
> grossly underrated, are obviously a little too cute, and the movie
> suffers from occasionally biting off more than it can chew. Fans tend
> to forget, however, that ANH and ESB aren't flawless either, and that
> Jedi quite simply features some of the things the others lack. In
> fact, that's way the films work so well as a trilogy.
Argh! Kill Ewoks! (sorry Amy) They are to cute, a little less cute and a
little more dying and I wouldn't have minded at all. As it is, it gets
to me a little.
<snip>
> But only pity them for a moment, for the rest of the time should be
> spent cheering over ROTJ's greatness, and biting nails in anticipation
> of the re-release of the StarWars trilogy's phenomenal conclusion.
RotJ has the greatest set pieces of the movies, from Vader's Shuttle as
it arrives at the Death Star, the increadible skiff battle, the speeder
chase, the final space battle. Wow!
> Now can I get an AMEN?
Amen Gerthein!
Only problem is now I'm watching it again and by the time I finish Red
Dwarf will be on, and I've got work to do and a nine A.M. lecture...
JamesG,
no willpower...
--
Official rassm Organiser.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/2843
(-o-) <*>
Rick Ridgway
Atsushi Kanamori wrote:
>
> >
> >I have the same problem. ROTJ has always been my favorite, but people
> >say I'm stupid for liking it. I think everyone loved Jedi when they
> >times i went outside and reinacted the "Sarlacc" scene. Me being Luke
> >of course. but when we get older we look at things too hard, we see too
> >many little flaws. I don't know why people hate Jedi,
>
> ROTJ could have been a bit more daring, dontcha think? Lucas
> took a pretty big risk making ESB such a dark film with an
> unresolved ending; and it did cost him some box office dollars
> but once you get past that, ESB comes across as seminal in its
> own way as ANH. ROTJ seemed too copycat in comparison; what with
> another Death Star, another critter-fest display, the cut-and-paste
> soundtrack and big celebration-ending.
I know. If they repair John Williams' original Jedi scores, I think
it'll do a lot to redeem the film from kiddie-land.
>
> Which made for a great first viewing, but once the nostalgia rush
> passes, it's easy to see that ANH and ESB did all the foundation work and
> ROTJ was largely a workmanlike tieup of the hornet's nest created by
> the first two movies.
Mark Hamill thought the same thing when they made it,
or so I've seen in interviews.
>
> 'Hate' is too strong a word to apply, though, in my case. I just don't
> have the respect for it that I do for the first two films.
Let's go see what happens next week. And, I agree with the
other posters on this topic. It has good moments in it.
Let's just hope they tighten it up.
>
> (btw, I think Boba Fett is completely overrated.)
Or underwritten, anyway. They had always led us to
believe he'd be a major character.
later,
Rick Ridgway
(rid...@world-access.com)
JamesG
Gerthein Boersma wrote:
> I've defended Jedi more than enough, but okay, here I go again. This
> is my final word on it until I've seen ROTJ:SE, though. Here goes.
<sigh> And we still haven't had ANH yet... Bummer.
<Snip>
> Jedi has some undeniable strong suits: First off, design is
> incredible, with the Lamba-class shuttle and the imperial Royal Guards
> looking beautifully sleek, and the Rancor, the Ewok-tree village and
> the Scout Troopers also having a nice and appropriate look. Admiral
> Ackbar and Jabba the Hutt also deserve a mention as great new
> characters.
Totally agree on the design, I'd also add the A-wings and B-wings, the
Mon-Cal cruisers, the surface of the Death Star and the tunnel...
<snip>
> ROTJ has, I feel, also more depth than it's contractors would have you
> believe. With Luke truly becoming a Jedi and Vader's beautiful
> redemption, it certainly is more 'wholesome' than ANH, although it
> can't match ESB's level of drama. It does bring back the enormous
> scale of ANH though, with this time the fate of the galaxy hanging
> firmly in the balance, and of course this is ultimatly what space
> opera is all about. In fact, this is one of the things ESB, my
> favorite movie of the trilogy, lacked when compared to the other two,
> and that Jedi managed to bring it back to this level while still
> maintaining at least some degree of ESB's depth is much to it's merit.
A little problem I have with RotJ is that we don't see 'the rest of the
galaxy' that is in the previous films, the bustle of Mos Eisley and
Cloud City, that there is life outside the main characters.
> Of course, ROTJ is not flawless. The Ewoks, although in my opinion
> grossly underrated, are obviously a little too cute, and the movie
> suffers from occasionally biting off more than it can chew. Fans tend
> to forget, however, that ANH and ESB aren't flawless either, and that
> Jedi quite simply features some of the things the others lack. In
> fact, that's way the films work so well as a trilogy.
Argh! Kill Ewoks! (sorry Amy) They are to cute, a little less cute and a
little more dying and I wouldn't have minded at all. As it is, it gets
to me a little.
<snip>
> But only pity them for a moment, for the rest of the time should be
> spent cheering over ROTJ's greatness, and biting nails in anticipation
> of the re-release of the StarWars trilogy's phenomenal conclusion.
RotJ has the greatest set pieces of the movies, from Vader's Shuttle as
it arrives at the Death Star, the increadible skiff battle, the speeder
chase, the final space battle. Wow!
> Now can I get an AMEN?
Amen Gerthein!
Only problem is now I'm watching it again and by the time I finish Red
Dwarf will be on, and I've got work to do and a nine A.M. lecture
tommorow...
Thomas Brenndorfer
>
> I have the same problem. ROTJ has always been my favorite, but people
> say I'm stupid for liking it. I think everyone loved Jedi when they
> were little because of the action, i can't even recall the number of
> times i went outside and reinacted the "Sarlacc" scene. Me being Luke
> of course. but when we get older we look at things too hard, we see too
> Boba Fett dies........
>
I remember when Jedi came out, the overwhelming important thing was the
conflict between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor (and on that score, the film
still delivers). The Tatooine and Endor sequences were just filler,
whetting our appetites, and they didn't seem to be the places where we
>>should<< expect any big payoff (why upstage the more important
moments??). Many of the complaints seem to be centered on the staging and
storylines as they occur on Tatooine and Endor, with some grumbling about
Leia's and Han's place in the film.
So be it. I can't really see how the film could have turned out
substantially different. If the Ewoks had been Wookiees, I'm sure enough
people would have still found fault with that (a bunch of Neanderthals
defeating a legion of stormtroopers -- come on, get real!!). The Ewoks are
an interesting group of creatures that keep the young ones involved with
the film while darker and weightier matters have to be resolved. And Ewoks
are not out of step with great fantasy novels. Consider how the cute and
resourceful hobbits in The Lord of the Rings bring down a mighty sorcerer,
while the forces of good are swamped on the larger battlefield. No reader
I've come across has complained about that.
Tom Brenndorfer
tho...@msn.com
Glen Schroeder
"Victory A. Marasigan" <vma...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
>minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
>well into my teenage years.
>Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
>and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
>flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
>movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
>Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
>tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
>Opinions?
>Victory A. Marasigan
My experience is similiar, too, although I would say that I was 'very
dissappointed' with the film and didn't outright hate it. My reasons
for disliking this film are so numerous I could write pages and pages
about it. A number of these reasons have been mentioned by others in
this thread. In a nutshell, I think it comes down to: bland
scripting, bland directing/cinematic storytelling, bland acting and
some dubious aesthetic choices (i.e. ewoks, etc.). I can only think
of a couple of aspects of this film that actually worked for me: the
bike-speeder sequence and some of the throne room sequence.
I don't take any particular joy in pointing out the faults in this
movie, but I wonder if it would be a good idea to compile a list of
these "failings" (IMHO) in light of the fact that Lucas and company
are now deep in pre-production for the prequels. I think it would be
good for there to be a loud and clear voice from the fans as what
*not* to do in the prequels. I think there's a lot of lessons to be
learned from Jedi that could help assure that the new movies are the
best ones possible.
Comments anyone?
Just a krazy kanuck,
Glen
Scott Padulsky
On Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:40:05 -0500, "Victory A. Marasigan"
<vma...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>
>I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
>minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
>well into my teenage years.
>
>Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
>and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
>flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
>movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
>
>Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
>tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
>
>Opinions?
>
>Victory A. Marasigan
>
I agree. As a kid, it was the best movie I had ever seen. It just
didn't age as well as the others. On the other hand, I saw the
original versions of the movies on a big screen a few years ago and
enjoyed RotJ then much more then when I see it on video, so maybe my
opinions will change.
Scott
Murcura
Victory A. Marasigan (vma...@gl.umbc.edu) wrote:
:
: I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
: minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
: well into my teenage years.
:
: Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the
film,
I may repeat some of what's been said in this thread, but I'd like to add
my 2c. I was 15 when ROTJ came out and loved it -- though even at the time
there were things that bugged me. While ESB has always remained my
favorite -- and ROTJ has dropped below SW -- this is as good a time as any
to point out why ROTJ is still an enjoyable film, and not, as is
frequently voiced here, "crap," "horrible," "stinkier than a wookiee in
August," etc.
WHAT'S TO LIKE IN ROTJ:
1) "Star Wars Revisited": We go back to Tatooine. The Han/Jabba
mini-storyline is resolved in grand style. We get "Cantina II", if you
will, in Jabba's palace. The unfinished Death Star was exciting and
terrifying.
2) Luke's maturation: When Luke enters the film, wearing his Jedi robes,
fully in control of himself and the Force, it was thrilling. I didn't care
then (nor do I now) about continuity questions ("When did he finish his
training?" etc.); the point was that Luke's journey was nearly complete,
and that was satisfying.
3) The slave girl outfit. (Sorry, but I *was* 15 at the time...)
4) Vader's entrance into the film was his most menacing yet -- and then
they throw in *his* boss, the Emperor! The stage was set for a battle
befitting the third chapter of a story.
5) Luke's struggle with the Emperor/Dark Side and Anakin's redemption.
When Vader punted the Emperor to save Luke's life, it made my heart jump.
WHAT'S TO *DISLIKE* ("Don't give in to hate!!") ABOUT ROTJ:
1) Ewoks. Let's face it, just about everyone hates (erm, *dislikes*) the
Ewoks. They're cute and cuddly, not to mention blatant merchandising
ploys. But although there are legitimate reasons for these feelings, *all*
the negativity about ROTJ can't be pinned on them. Let's spread some blame
to...
2) Hokiness. Even as a 15-year-old, parts of ROTJ had my eyes rolling.
Luke finding out Leia was his sister had "soap opera" written all over it
-- though after finding out it was part of the grand design it wasn't so
bad. Threepio as a deity? Tee-hee. Vader's death scene was a bit *too*
heart-tugging for my tastes. (I half-expect ROTJ:SE to have an added line
before Anakin dies -- "I love you, maaan!") The "Happy Happy Ewok"
celebration at the end is straight from "Barney Goes To Endor", and the
ghosts of the three dead Jedis laughing and waving borders on sickening.
And let's not forget to mention...
3) Boring Story. Most of my enjoyment of ROTJ revolves around Luke; the
others, after the battle on Jabba's barge, aren't given much new to do.
And I only just recently realized a fairly obvious detail: Han never
pilots the Falcon in ROTJ, and Chewie is stuck with former-traitor Lando,
who gets all the cool battle victories! This sucks, frankly.
That said, I will still see ROTJ:SE on opening night, I will still enjoy
what I've always enjoyed about it, and I probably won't cringe at the
cringeworthy parts because I'll be there to revel in the experience, not
criticize it. I'll still watch ESB more on video, but next Friday should
be a time for ROTJ's detractors to set aside their (valid) complaints and
enjoy the film the way they (we) did in 1983.
[For what it's worth, IMHO, ROTJ would have been miles better (and more
resonant within the whole saga) if the Ewoks had been Wookiees, as
originally planned (if that's true). Their battle victories would have
been more believable, and the audience could have shared in thier uprising
against the Empire -- particularly in light of their enslavement, which
may or may not be part of the prequels. Oh well. Thanks for reading.]
*****************************
Sean Murdock
mur...@aol.com
Mitchell Ting
On 10 Mar 1997, Murcura wrote:
> WHAT'S TO LIKE IN ROTJ:
>
> 1) "Star Wars Revisited": We go back to Tatooine. The Han/Jabba
> mini-storyline is resolved in grand style. We get "Cantina II", if you
> will, in Jabba's palace. The unfinished Death Star was exciting and
> terrifying.
I don't know about "the unfinished Death Star" being exciting and
terrifying, but I'd definitely give a nod to the space drama in and around
the half-completed Death Star.
> 3) The slave girl outfit. (Sorry, but I *was* 15 at the time...)
I don't blame you. That was one helluva outfit.
> 4) Vader's entrance into the film was his most menacing yet -- and then
> they throw in *his* boss, the Emperor! The stage was set for a battle
> befitting the third chapter of a story.
The duel rematch between Vader and Luke was a nice touch. But I thought
the scenes of a dying Vader with Luke and the burning of Vader's body were
stronger.
> WHAT'S TO *DISLIKE* ("Don't give in to hate!!") ABOUT ROTJ:
>
> 2) Hokiness. Even as a 15-year-old, parts of ROTJ had my eyes rolling.
> Luke finding out Leia was his sister had "soap opera" written all over it
> -- though after finding out it was part of the grand design it wasn't so
> bad. Threepio as a deity? Tee-hee. Vader's death scene was a bit *too*
> heart-tugging for my tastes. (I half-expect ROTJ:SE to have an added line
> before Anakin dies -- "I love you, maaan!") The "Happy Happy Ewok"
> celebration at the end is straight from "Barney Goes To Endor", and the
Actually, I thought the sibling discovery was a nice twist. Who would've
thought from ANH that those two were related. The celebration at the end
definitely did not go well with me. Somebody please pass me the barf bag.
> 3) Boring Story. Most of my enjoyment of ROTJ revolves around Luke; the
> others, after the battle on Jabba's barge, aren't given much new to do.
As I've said before, ROTJ is pure escapism ... it's ANH on steroids. With
the exception of a few notable moments, the movie runs like a typical
summer no-brainer big-budgeted action movie. Hence, the obvious weak story
development.
--Mitch
Jay Majer
In article <19970310055...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mur...@aol.com (Murcura) writes:
>[For what it's worth, IMHO, ROTJ would have been miles better (and more
>resonant within the whole saga) if the Ewoks had been Wookiees, as
>originally planned (if that's true). Their battle victories would have
>been more believable, and the audience could have shared in thier uprising
>against the Empire -- particularly in light of their enslavement, which
>may or may not be part of the prequels. Oh well. Thanks for reading.]
I like ROTJ as well, but I also agree about the Ewoks-should-have-been
-Wookiees thing. Also, if they were really going to do the Leia-is-
Luke's-sister thing, then they should have followed through with it by
having Leia start her Jedi training. It would have been pretty neat to see
her handling a lightsabre. (Perhaps Lucas could even have had Luke and
Leia >both< go together to confront Vader and the Emperor.)
________________________________________________________________________
Jay Majer This message "Shut up, brain, or I'll
zi...@netcom.com presented in stab you with a Q-tip!"
jma...@ucla.edu ( ( ( ((T H X)) ) ) ) -Homer Simpson
________________________________________________________________________
Edward Lee
I mentioned this a few weeks ago, but I'll bring it up again,
since it's relevant. My main problem with Jedi is the (IMO) loss of Han's
smarmy lines and the totally undeveloped character potential of Leia. The
Luke/Leia line could've been developed way more and I would've liked to
have seen Leia be a much more stronger character. ("But these are my
friends!" Ug. "Luke, run away! Run far away! I wish I could go with
you." Double ug). I also think Han and Lando's friendship, betrayal and
subsequent reconciliation could've been much more interesting. I mean,
Han must'be _hated_ Lando, then all of a sudden, Han is saving Lando from
the Sarlacc. This is only hinted at when Han is about to shoot the
Sarlacc tentacle and Lando says, "Higher, just a little higher!" (as if
Han was intentionally aiming at Lando). It might've been cool to see Boba
Fett corner Han (while he's blind and unarmed) and then have Lando come
and whack Boba from behind.
As for the Ewoks, I really didn't have too much of a problem with
them. Sure, they're cute, but would you really have liked to have seen an
army of Ugnaughts save Han and Co.? I think the Vader vs. Luke story is
done very well (I'm still moved when Vader says, "It's too late for me,
son." while they're on Endor and, of course, when the incredibly powerful
rendition of the Force/Ben's theme plays when Vader chucks Palpatine down
the Death Star shaft. Can you imagine? For the first time, Vader's SON
is begging his father for help. It's so simple, but I think it really
works. *sniff, sniff!*). Of course, the space battle is amazing. All in
all, I think Jedi is still an amazing film, but I think it had the
potential to be the best of the trilogy (IMO, the best is Empire, followed
by ANH). Thanks for reading.
--
Mitchell Ting
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Jay Majer wrote:
> I like ROTJ as well, but I also agree about the Ewoks-should-have-been
> -Wookiees thing. Also, if they were really going to do the Leia-is-
> Luke's-sister thing, then they should have followed through with it by
> having Leia start her Jedi training. It would have been pretty neat to see
> her handling a lightsabre. (Perhaps Lucas could even have had Luke and
> Leia >both< go together to confront Vader and the Emperor.)
It would seem irrelevant to have Luke and Leia train, then eventually
confront Vader and the Emperor. If Luke failed, then it would be Leia's
turn to understand the ways of the force, etc. I think the situation
between Luke and Leia was done nicely with the added twist.
--Mitch
Casper
Tom Brenndorfer wrote:
> still delivers). The Tatooine and Endor sequences were just filler,
> whetting our appetites, and they didn't seem to be the places where we
> >>should<< expect any big payoff (why upstage the more important
> moments??).
What??? You weren't just thrilled by the Land Speeder scenes???
THE MIGHTY CASPER
SKUMM
>I like ROTJ as well, but I also agree about the Ewoks-should-have-been
>-Wookiees thing. Also, if they were really going to do the Leia-is-
>Luke's-sister thing, then they should have followed through with it by
>having Leia start her Jedi training. It would have been pretty neat to
>see her handling a lightsabre. (Perhaps Lucas could even have had Luke
>and Leia >both< go together to confront Vader and the Emperor.)
The leia thing would have added an hour to the movie though no?
A big thing that should have gone into ROTJ, was coruscant. When the
masses see this unamed city celebrating at the end of the SE there will
be a collective 'what the fuck is that place?' Plus the Mquarrie
drawings of Vader and the unamed companion looked kinda cool.
What's the difference between Kashyyk and endor anyway?
SKUMM
SKUMM
SKUMM
SKUMM
SKUMM
Kentaro P Maeda
so what you're saying is, the leia thing would add another hour to
the movie?
Ken
Patrick H.
On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Daniel wrote:
> Victory A. Marasigan wrote:
> >
> > I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
> > minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
> > well into my teenage years.
> >
> > Now, as an adult, I find myself feeling less enthusiastic about the film,
> > and I'm not sure why. Is it because I grew up and started to see ROTJ's
> > flaws? Or is it because I've heard so many negative opinions about the
> > movie from people who didn't like it to begin with?
> >
> > Either way, it makes me sad that such a happy time in my life has been
> > tarnished by newfound negative feelings about this movie.
> >
> > Opinions?
> >
> > Victory A. Marasigan
> When's the last time you actually watched it? It's a lot better than you
> give it credit for. Just overlook such things like burping frogs and
> Chewbacca yelling like Tarzan. Stop looking for what you don't like
> about the movie and enjoy what you like about it- hmm. that sounds
> kinda' Yoda-like. I myself have always found it to be the most
> atmospheric of the movies and at times the most moving- i.e- the burning
> of Vader.
>
Hey! The burping frog is the best part.
Patrick H.
prha...@uiuc.edu
Life Sciences
Matthew Lee
Mitchell Ting <mkt...@uci.edu> writes:
>On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Phil Mahoney wrote:
>> Same story here. After waiting 3 years to resolve the cliffhanger, seeing
>> Jedi that first night was the greatest movie theater experinence in my life.
>> But I also have seen flaws since I've become a film
>> geek/buff/snob/student/critic/cricket:
>>
>> The Ewoks suck. If I want to see that I'll watch the Care Bears.
>I've heard a lot about the Ewoks. Now, aside from the fact that they do
>seem too "likable", I personally don't see how they could be such a flaw
>in the movie. Maybe I don't analyze and criticize the movie in every
>little aspect, but hey it's still one helluva entertaining ride.
Come on man....From A new Hope where a troop of Stormtroopers kicks complete
ass against the rebels on the Correlian ship to getting their asses whipped
by a bunch of furballs?? Plus they have those walker things too.
Who are you kidding? The ewoks are a bit unbelievable, although, I suppose
they knew the terrain and there were heaps of the little buggers.
Still, the decline of the Stormtrooper from ANH and ESB to ROTJ is quite
remarkable. These guys are supposed to be the ass kickers of the galaxy.
>> The Emperor on the whole is cool, but he gets repetitive and ends up looking
>> like an evil cartoon.
>He didn't seem as sinister and menacing as ... say, Darth Vader.
>> Other than the above 3 complaints, it's still my favourite of the three. The
>> first half hour, the rescue of Han Solo is the greatest half hour in film
>> history. And now that Jedi Rocks has replaced the dreadful Lapti Nek, it'll
>> be even better.
>For pure escapism, I would have to give that to ROTJ ... that movie's like
>ANH on steriods. I was never a big fan of ESB ... I thought it felt too
>slow in some parts.
>--Mitch
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James A. Ureel
Chuck Fullerton wrote:
>
> "Victory A. Marasigan" <vma...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
> >
> >I'm one of those people who saw Jedi as a kid and absolutely loved every
> >minute of it. It was the BEST of the trilogy, and I touted it as such
> >well into my teenage years.
>
> in 1983 it felt like a trip to Disneyworld. Now I look at Han behaving
> like a dork and just shake my head. Lucas and Kasdan should have come
> up with something more original than another Death Star. Someone on this
> group suggested a raid on Coruscant, and I think that would have been
> great.
>
> -Chuck
I too agree. As a kid, I loved Jedi because it was eye candy. Neat
creatures and big effects. As an adult I love Star wars for the
simplicity of it's story and Empire for it's darkness and courage to
leave the story unfinished. Jedi is just to easy. It's my least
favorite of the movies.
Just my $.02
->aj
Kentaro P Maeda
> As an adult I love Star wars for the
> simplicity of it's story and Empire for it's darkness and courage to
> leave the story unfinished. Jedi is just to easy. It's my least
> favorite of the movies.
oh, come on, because empire was dark and had a cliffhanger ending, that
makes it the best? what about story, character development? jedi had its
dark moments, but everyone always looks past that. maybe if jabba was
psychotic and bloodthirsty, the ewoks were big, buff, steroid-pumping,
machine gun-toting wolfmen, all with an open ending (again?), you'd like
jedi better? looking at what today's comic books are like, that might
satisfy the general public more nowadays?
Ken