Worst Novels
Genius821
I just thought that I would say the worst novels from Bantam have
got to be the "Ambush at Corellia" cycle. I hated that shit.
Oh yeah and if anybody can explain to me the concept in ESB when the
Imperial task force comes out of light speed. Vader said that they came
out to close to the system. What I don't realize is that why would
coming out farther help any? I mean wouldn't the ships be detected as
they came closer? Well thats all.
usher
geni...@aol.com (Genius821) wrote:
> I just thought that I would say the worst novels from Bantam
>have got to be the "Ambush at Corellia" cycle. I hated that shit.
They may not be the best, but they're better than The Crystal Star.
> Oh yeah and if anybody can explain to me the concept in ESB when
>the Imperial task force comes out of light speed. Vader said that
>they came out to close to the system. What I don't realize is that
>why would coming out farther help any? I mean wouldn't the ships be
>detected as they came closer?
Had they come out of hyperspace outside the system, they could have
calculated a mini-jump and popped in after they were at battle
readiness and taken the Rebels by surprise instead of giving them a
half-hour's warning. It wouldn't have prevented them from hardening
the shield, however.
usher
Rambling Old Jedi Engineer
Awarded the HNTC Award for Valor during the Debacle at Hallifax
The only dumb question is the unasked one.
Multiple Flame War Survivor - Awarded the "Finger" for my efforts
Survived Sith WarI 1996 with my ship intact.
Author of stuff.
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<*> http://members.tripod.com/~Melosh/swlinks.html
Bryan Guinn
AND, the rebel's would not have had time to evacuate as quickly...
IMHO: ALL novels written by those other than GL are trash.
Timothy Applegate
In <19961213161...@ladder01.news.aol.com> geni...@aol.com
(Genius821) writes:
>
> I just thought that I would say the worst novels from Bantam
have
>got to be the "Ambush at Corellia" cycle. I hated that shit.
the
>Imperial task force comes out of light speed. Vader said that they
came
>out to close to the system. What I don't realize is that why would
>coming out farther help any? I mean wouldn't the ships be detected as
If they had come out farther out, they could have launched TIEs, SHUs,
and TRNs (forgive my game-speak) as a blockade around the planet. They
could have launched further probots to determine the exact location of
L. Skywalker, etc.
(Actually, it was just a reason to show Vader choking someone and wake
up the sleeping audiences.)
Chris
Steve Osmanski
>In <19961213161...@ladder01.news.aol.com> geni...@aol.com
>(Genius821) writes:
>> Oh yeah and if anybody can explain to me the concept in ESB when
>the
>>Imperial task force comes out of light speed. Vader said that they
>came
>>out to close to the system. What I don't realize is that why would
>>coming out farther help any? I mean wouldn't the ships be detected as
>>they came closer? Well thats all.
>tap...@ix.netcom.com(Timothy Applegate) wrote:
>
>If they had come out farther out, they could have launched TIEs, SHUs,
>and TRNs (forgive my game-speak) as a blockade around the planet. They
>could have launched further probots to determine the exact location of
>L. Skywalker, etc.
>(Actually, it was just a reason to show Vader choking someone and wake
>up the sleeping audiences.)
>
>Chris
Actually, I suspect that Vader wanted to come out of hyperspace so far
out of the system that the Rebels wouldn't detect the Imperial fleet
at all. Then perhaps the Imps could try to sneak up on Hoth, or set up
a better blockade, as Chris suggests.
Rich Handley
This is a non-sequitor -- NONE of the novels have been written by George Lucas. :)
Later!
Rich Handley (Card...@unix.asb.com)
Visit "The Exhaustive Guide to Star Wars Comics"
at http://www.asb.com/usr/cardsafe/intro.htm
(I don't use any profanity in my sig, but I have
no problem with it, either...)
Michael Kube-McDowell
On 13 Dec 96 20:00:58 -0800, BRYAN...@msn.com (Bryan Guinn) wrote:
>AND, the rebel's would not have had time to evacuate as quickly...
>
>IMHO: ALL novels written by those other than GL are trash.
Eh--which novels is GL supposed to have written?
Look, you can't approach this from the standpoint that there's One
True Narrator. Every historian, every biographer, approaches his
subject(s) with a slightly different perspective, a slightly different
set of tools, and a slightly different set of "facts." The end result
is that the readers get to see things from different angles--a sort of
literary triangulation. If it takes three views just to show the shape
of a solid object, how many must it take to definitively describe all
the facets of a person, much less an epoch of history?
Besides which, my mama's son don't write no trash.
Best,
K-Mac
---] Michael Paul McDowell, writing as Michael P. Kube-McDowell [---
---] Author of THE QUIET POOLS and STAR WARS: BEFORE THE STORM [---
---] For more info: http://www.sff.net/people/K-Mac [---
---] *** NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: K-...@sff.net *** [---
Gary M. Bies
Genius821 wrote:
>
> I just thought that I would say the worst novels from Bantam have
> got to be the "Ambush at Corellia" cycle. I hated that shit.
> Imperial task force comes out of light speed. Vader said that they came
> out to close to the system. What I don't realize is that why would
> coming out farther help any? I mean wouldn't the ships be detected as
soldier or reservist will tell you that recon, ELINT, the element of
surprise, and preparation are the keys to any battle (next to sheer
numbers).
Wayne White
Rich Handley wrote:
>
> BRYAN...@msn.com (Bryan Guinn) wrote:
> >IMHO: ALL novels written by those other than GL are trash.
>
originally called) was written by GL.
Bronwen Krimmel
No, actually the novelization of ANH was ghost-written by somebody else.
I think it was Alan Dean Foster, but I could be wrong--my memory is
failing me thanks to finals.
--Bronwen the Occasionally Sane
*******************************************************************************
"Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall."
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.ratatosk.org/~bronz
*******************************************************************************
The Cheshire Cat
Wayne White wrote:
>
> Rich Handley wrote:
> >
> > BRYAN...@msn.com (Bryan Guinn) wrote:
> > >IMHO: ALL novels written by those other than GL are trash.
> >
> > This is a non-sequitor -- NONE of the novels have been written by George Lucas. :)
> No, that's not true. "A New Hope" (or just "Star Wars" as it was
> originally called) was written by GL.
Nope. the ANH novel was ghost-writain by Alan Dean Foster, author of
SotME and ten thousand other media-based novels. Read SotME and notice
the simularities... except ANH was EONS better, of course. <G>
The worst novel? The JA trilogy, hands down, with CotF the worst of the
bunch. Unoriginal, childish, and annoying.
CS wasn't a bad *novel*, just a bad *SW* novel. At least it's easily
ignored in the Bantam continuty.
Dunc
Andrew Toth
Wayne White <wrw...@nr.infi.net> wrote:
{+}Rich Handley wrote:
{+}>
{+}> BRYAN...@msn.com (Bryan Guinn) wrote:
{+}> >IMHO: ALL novels written by those other than GL are trash.
{+}>
{+}> This is a non-sequitor -- NONE of the novels have been written by
George Lucas. :)
{+}No, that's not true. "A New Hope" (or just "Star Wars" as it was
{+}originally called) was written by GL.
Twasn't a novel, it was just a script.
Beyowulf
Beyo...@pipeline.com
Steely Blue Dragon Of The -==UDIC==-
Awarded the HNTC Award For Valor During The Battle Of Hallifax
S. A. Wilson
Does anyone have an extra Princess Leia Action Figure --
from the new series of action figures -- that they would
be willing to sell or trade for some other Power of the
Force action figure -- I have a few duplicates? If so can
you email.
Thanks,
Sally A. Wilson
--
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Through me you enter among the lost.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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=========================================
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=========================================
Matthew Ashford Homepage:
http://remarque.berkeley.edu/~sally/Matt.html
Maida Vivian C Sy
Michael Kube-McDowell (7374...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: Look, you can't approach this from the standpoint that there's One
: True Narrator. Every historian, every biographer, approaches his
: subject(s) with a slightly different perspective, a slightly different
But there is such a thing as historical error...!?! And I think that's what
some of the novels are. BTW, I haven't read Black Fleet Crisis yet, so I
can't say anything about it.
I'm surprised you can post here and not be afraid of getting flamed to death
by folks who aren't too crazy about your books.
Regards,
Maida
happ...@aol.com
In article <32b2549d...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
7374...@compuserve.com (Michael Kube-McDowell) writes:
>Look, you can't approach this from the standpoint that there's One
>True Narrator. Every historian, every biographer, approaches his
>subject(s) with a slightly different perspective, a slightly different
>set of tools, and a slightly different set of "facts." The end result
>is that the readers get to see things from different angles--a sort of
>literary triangulation. If it takes three views just to show the shape
>of a solid object, how many must it take to definitively describe all
>the facets of a person, much less an epoch of history?
>
>Besides which, my mama's son don't write no trash.
>
>Best,
>
> K-Mac
>
>
BANG!
that hit the nail square on the head.
- General Sai
(Happy)
another Official RASSM Cool Person.
and THE head of the JTFC's shock troops.
"He said it in HUTTESE!! Everyone is supposed to know Huttese!!!"
- an angry George
Lucas
Jeremy Kwiecien
Maida Vivian C Sy wrote:
>
> Michael Kube-McDowell (7374...@compuserve.com) wrote:
> : Look, you can't approach this from the standpoint that there's One
> : True Narrator. Every historian, every biographer, approaches his
> : subject(s) with a slightly different perspective, a slightly different
>
> some of the novels are. BTW, I haven't read Black Fleet Crisis yet, so I
> can't say anything about it.
>
> I'm surprised you can post here and not be afraid of getting flamed to death
> by folks who aren't too crazy about your books.
>
> Regards,
> Maida
>
I assume this refers to Mr Kube-McDowell?
In that case, I assume that he is professional enough to accept genuine
criticism, and ignore unstructured attacks.
Also, I'm under the impression that he finds some of the things on this
newsgroup to be inspirational. I know if I were to write any fiction
(not too likely...), I would want to know what the fans want, and
monitoring a newsgroup seems to be the most efficient way to do that
now-a-days.
--
Jer
"There are, I have discovered, two kinds of people in this
world, those who long to be understood and those who long
to be misunderstood. It is the irony of life that neither
is gratified." -- Carl Van Vechten.
Rich Handley
Wayne White <wrw...@nr.infi.net> wrote:
>Rich Handley wrote:
>This is a non-sequitor -- NONE of the novels have been written by George Lucas. :)
>No, that's not true. "A New Hope" (or just "Star Wars" as it was
>originally called) was written by GL.
Nope -- it was written by Alan Dean Foster, but he was well-paid by Lucas to act as a ghost-writer.
The Cheshire Cat
Michael Kube-McDowell wrote:
>
> On 13 Dec 96 20:00:58 -0800, BRYAN...@msn.com (Bryan Guinn) wrote:
>
> >AND, the rebel's would not have had time to evacuate as quickly...
> >
>
>
> True Narrator. Every historian, every biographer, approaches his
> subject(s) with a slightly different perspective, a slightly different
> is that the readers get to see things from different angles--a sort of
> literary triangulation. If it takes three views just to show the shape
> of a solid object, how many must it take to definitively describe all
> the facets of a person, much less an epoch of history?
>
> Besides which, my mama's son don't write no trash.
>
> Best,
>
> K-Mac
>
Go K-Mac! Listen to him, he's shown intelligence in his writing. <G>
As for the "trash" -- you don't like it, don't read. I don't like KJA,
and although I buy the YJK for practical purposes, I don't read them
anymore. It's done wonders.
WHY are they trash, anyway?
Dunc
Maida Vivian C Sy
Jeremy Kwiecien (kwie...@achilles.net) wrote:
: I assume this refers to Mr Kube-McDowell?
: In that case, I assume that he is professional enough to accept genuine
: criticism, and ignore unstructured attacks.
: Also, I'm under the impression that he finds some of the things on this
: newsgroup to be inspirational. I know if I were to write any fiction
: (not too likely...), I would want to know what the fans want, and
: monitoring a newsgroup seems to be the most efficient way to do that
: now-a-days.
Well, there was one other author who tried that and got flamed horribly by
some very nasty fans. I guess some of the input here must be valuable enough
to risk that. :)
Bryan A Texan! Need I say more?
Those other authors seem to have a problem with consistency. For
instance: Han Solo tell's the 'kid' not to get all jittery--as they
are approaching the SSD Executor in the shuttle Tyderium in
ESB--because there are HUNDREDS of command ships out there. Did Zahn
purposely ignore this? How is the Empire to be defeated almost
totally in five short years? The list goes on and on (Planetary
repulsors?)...
--Bryan
Bryan A Texan! Need I say more?
Has GL backed any novels after ROTJ <besides SOTE>? Nope, he, in
effect, shot them down! Which is EXACTLY what I choose to do.
--Bryan (A purist)
Matthew Barber
This doesn't make much sense. Lucas didn't even write the screenplays
for ESB and ROTJ, but you have no problem accepting those, while you
shoot down the books, not written by Lucas either. Personally, I'm
happier with some of the books (i.e. The New Rebellion, Dark Empire)
than I am with ROTJ. And while I'll grant you that some of the new books
suck, I think that you need to read the introduction that Lucas wrote
for Splinter of the Mind's Eye to accept these new stories.
Can you honestly believe that Lucas (obsessive, compulisve, controlling
Lucas) would let anything go on in the SW universe that he didn't
approve of?
Paul
Michael Kube-McDowell
On 16 Dec 96 04:35:08 -0800, Bry...@msn.com (Bryan A Texan! Need I
say more?) wrote:
>Has GL backed any novels after ROTJ <besides SOTE>? Nope, he, in
>effect, shot them down! Which is EXACTLY what I choose to do.
George Lucas personally read and approved the outline for the Black
Fleet Crisis trilogy. It's my understanding that that's been the
procedure for the other Bantam novels as well. I don't know if that
counts as "backing" in your scheme of things, but it does in mine.
Best wishes,
Michael Kube-McDowell
>I assume this refers to Mr Kube-McDowell?
>In that case, I assume that he is professional enough to accept genuine
>criticism, and ignore unstructured attacks.
I'm not particularly thick-skinned, but you always have to consider
the source. The flamers tend to discredit themselves; the thoughtful
readers stand out. But I'll answer anyone who isn't personally
abusive, and give them my slant on the issue at hand.
>Also, I'm under the impression that he finds some of the things on this
>newsgroup to be inspirational. I know if I were to write any fiction
>(not too likely...), I would want to know what the fans want, and
>monitoring a newsgroup seems to be the most efficient way to do that
>now-a-days.
Well, the time frame isn't quite right for that to have happened--I
didn't start tracking this newsgroup daily until this spring, after
two of the three Black Fleet books were already finished. I _will_ say
that what I read here last fall heightened my awareness of the fans'
feelings about the proliferation of superweapons, and made me aware
of how widely despised the holiday special and Wookiee storybook were.
And, you see--no superweapons (contrary to certain predictions here
regarding the Teljkon vagabond), and a bit of revisionist history to
reclaim and (hopefully!) redeem the storybook.
But, really, the STAR WARS fan I consulted most was...me. Left to
their own devices, most writers try to write the kind of stories they
like to read, and explore the kinds fo conflicts and questions they
find interesting. That's where The Black Fleet Crisis really came
from.
Best,
Michael Kube-McDowell
On 15 Dec 1996 02:24:49 GMT, m...@cs.uml.edu (Maida Vivian C Sy) wrote:
>But there is such a thing as historical error...!?! And I think that's what
>some of the novels are. BTW, I haven't read Black Fleet Crisis yet, so I
>can't say anything about it.
It's often hard to say exactly what the truth is where history's
concerned. It tends to be written by the winners, to begin with--which
introduces a pretty significant bias. Beyond that, significant events
often leave little documentation and few witnesses--leaving both
events and motives open to interpretation, and historical persons
permanently open to reexamination in the face of new evidence.
>I'm surprised you can post here and not be afraid of getting flamed to death
>by folks who aren't too crazy about your books.
I took a chance, and it's worked out fine so far. The books have been
well received, for one thing--most people are giving them a fair read,
and being more than civil with me, even when they take issue with some
aspect or another. And most of _them_ have been willing to listen to
my POV, and some have even come around to seeing things my way. But
you can't please everyone--tastes and expectations vary across too
wide a spectrum. I tried to write about real people, not movie heroes,
grappling with real issues, not technobabble and one-dimensional evil
adversaries. I tried to respect the many-dimensioned wholeness of
Luke, Leia, Chewbacca, and the others, and look in on them as they
were facing problems that mattered in a world where failures and
mistakes have consequences. That was my way of honoring the phenomenon
that is STAR WARS--by taking it as seriously as I did any other book
I've written.
But after that, you have to be philosophical. Every reader has a
different experience with, through and of a given book. Where my books
are concerned, I'm just glad a lot of them turned out to be good ones.
Ian
Yeah, it is inconsistent, but I think Han said that there are a LOT of
command ships, not hundreds. Also, Zahn used a lot of material from the
WEG source books, which specifically state that there were only 4 SSD's
built up until Endor, and several more after. Han may have been making a
general statement about the number of Imperial flagships, not just
Super-class vessels. Having said that, I feel Zahn's trilogy is amongst
the best SW literature available...
McBrides trilogy was interesting in that alien technology was brought up
and explored, but it was disapointing in that it was just a bigger
version of something already in the SW universe. And those damn kids...
It looks like Anakin Solo may turn into the Wesley Crusher (tm) of the
SW universe...
Later, Ian
Rich Handley
Bry...@msn.com (Bryan A Texan! Need I say more?) wrote:
>Has GL backed any novels after ROTJ <besides SOTE>? Nope, he, in
>effect, shot them down! Which is EXACTLY what I choose to do.
Shot them down? What are you talking about? That's just silly. He's never shot any of the novels
down.
Rich Handley
Thanks, Michael, for providing a solid rebuttal to BryKing -- he doesn't know what he's talking
about.
7374...@compuserve.com (Michael Kube-McDowell) wrote:
>On 16 Dec 96 04:35:08 -0800, Bry...@msn.com (Bryan A Texan! Need I
>say more?) wrote:
>Has GL backed any novels after ROTJ <besides SOTE>? Nope, he, in
>effect, shot them down! Which is EXACTLY what I choose to do.
>George Lucas personally read and approved the outline for the Black
>Fleet Crisis trilogy. It's my understanding that that's been the
>procedure for the other Bantam novels as well. I don't know if that
>counts as "backing" in your scheme of things, but it does in mine.
>Best wishes,
> K-Mac
Doug Vince
Hi Michael,
PMFJI, but I have a question <g>.
Is Tyrant's Test the last book of the Black Fleet Crisis ?
Thanks,
Doug
Michael Kube-McDowell <7374...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
<32b608cc...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
Ian
Michael Kube-McDowell wrote:
> Well, the time frame isn't quite right for that to have happened--I
> didn't start tracking this newsgroup daily until this spring, after
> two of the three Black Fleet books were already finished. I _will_ say
> that what I read here last fall heightened my awareness of the fans'
> feelings about the proliferation of superweapons, and made me aware
> of how widely despised the holiday special and Wookiee storybook were.
> And, you see--no superweapons (contrary to certain predictions here
> regarding the Teljkon vagabond), and a bit of revisionist history to
> reclaim and (hopefully!) redeem the storybook.
>
> But, really, the STAR WARS fan I consulted most was...me. Left to
> their own devices, most writers try to write the kind of stories they
> like to read, and explore the kinds fo conflicts and questions they
> find interesting. That's where The Black Fleet Crisis really came
> from.
>
> Best,
>
I suppose it is a matter of striking a balance between what the audience
wants and what the writer wants to express.
I actually just picked up 'Tyrant's Test' in town and am looking forward
to a good read tonight. (I certainly expect one if it is as good as the
previous two).
I would like to see more SW authors in this ng, if not actually posting
(and thus opening themselves up to some very personal insults), then
lurking to gain a feel for what fans believe are the strong and weak
points of the various novels. The 'proliferation of superweapons' is a
particular sore point, and I won't particularly miss their absence in
any future novels.
Anyway, congratulations on your fine novels, and fingers crossed you
want to/get the opportunity to write SW again.
Later, Ian
Bryan A Texan! Need I say more?
Oh yeah, he did. He said that he could totally ignore anything
created in those novels, the exception being SOTE--which is a serious
folly in my opinion. If he says he MAY ignore them, then so do I! If
he ever says that he plans to incorporate idea's from such and such
novel into a movie, then I'll read it.
He IS the master!
--Bryan
Rich Handley
Then, with all due respect, you're not only completely missing the point he was making, you're also
shutting yourself off from a lot of good stories as well. That's your choice, of course, but it's a
shame, especially since you've misunderstood what his comment meant about leaving himself free to
contradict the novels -- it meant he wasn't holding himself to them for future movies, NOT that the
books should be completely ignored. It has been made clear that the movies, novelizations, and
radio shows are the primary level of canon, with the other novels and the comics as the secondary
level of canon. That said, Mara Jade is in the ROTJ radio show, so if you're going to treat a
second-rate novel like SOTE as canon because the Outrider appears in the SE, then you need to afford
the same status to the Zahn books. However, again, the whole canon issue is a moot one, since NONE
of it happened. What ever happened to enjoying a story just because it was written?
Robb Bresciani
K-Mak,
Your being on here has done something else. It's made me curious enough to go
out and purchase the 1st book in your series. I've been avoiding the massive
flood of books because of my disappointment with the Jedi Academy series. (not
flaming the author, whoever s/he is, just didn't like 'em) I loved the Zahn
books, and haven't found anything that I felt was worthy since... But hearing
what you have to say and what everyopne else has to say about your books has
convinced me to give them a try! So there's at least $1.35 (or however much you
make per book <g>) going your way :).
Thanks for listening to us.
Robb
Robb Bresciani
-Snip-
>It looks like Anakin Solo may turn into the Wesley Crusher (tm) of the
>SW universe...
>
up if that's what GL has planned for him! Smother him in his sleep! It's much
kinder this way!
Robb
John Baker
In article <58sg9e$j...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
tap...@ix.netcom.com(Timothy Applegate) wrote:
> In <19961213161...@ladder01.news.aol.com> geni...@aol.com
> (Genius821) writes:
> > Oh yeah and if anybody can explain to me the concept in ESB when
> the
> >Imperial task force comes out of light speed. Vader said that they
> came
> >out to close to the system. What I don't realize is that why would
> >coming out farther help any? I mean wouldn't the ships be detected as
> >they came closer? Well thats all.
>
> If they had come out farther out, they could have launched TIEs, SHUs,
> and TRNs (forgive my game-speak) as a blockade around the planet. They
> could have launched further probots to determine the exact location of
> L. Skywalker, etc.
> (Actually, it was just a reason to show Vader choking someone and wake
> up the sleeping audiences.)
>
> Chris
I have always been bothered by the same thing
Maagic
I think it isn't about proximity to the system as a tactical advantage,
but about an Vader telling his officer "Come out of light speed THIS far
from the system" but he didn't, therefore Vader got pissed, and gave him
the old telepathic Vulcan death grip :)
--
My web page! You won't believe it! http://www.geocities.com/Area51/1766
National Computer Outlet http://www.geocities.com/Area51/1766/nco.htm
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Eplicon
> I think it isn't about proximity to the system as a tactical
> advantage, but about an Vader telling his officer "Come out
> of light speed THIS far from the system" but he didn't,
> therefore Vader got pissed, and gave him the old telepathic
> Vulcan death grip :)
Sounds good to me. I figured a gradual approach to the Hoth system would
have been more conspicuous, which would allow time for the Empire's strike
force to penetrate the planet. Ozzel's blunder was like a door slamming
to the Rebels' sensors, hence they were alerted quite quickly.
"You have failed me for the >last< time, Admiral..."
/-Jack
jed...@aol.com
Vader had a bombardment planned for the Rebel base. Ozzel blew that by
coming out of lightspeed too close to the system, thereby alerting the
Rebels. The Rebels cranked up their shield, making Vader's plan unusable,
forcing him to go to plan B, which was sending a ground assault force.
My thinking is that the Imperials would have been able to launch a major
bombardment of the Hoth base before the Rebels would have been able to get
their energy shield up to protect it.
JEDI AL