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Bernie Reger

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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I wonder if anyone can help me with a small problem. In reading many of
the StarWars novels out there (most by Bantam Books), the story makes
mention of a time when the Emperor came back as a clone of himself.
During this time, Luke turned over to the dark side if only for a brief
time.

Does any one know the name of this story? So many books make reference
to these events, and I'd like to read of them first hand.

Thanks.

-Bernie Reger

Darth Ewok

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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Its in the Dark Empire comics series.

--

Darth Ewok, Sith Lord

There is no weakness; there is power.
There is no mercy; there is strength.
There is no compassion; there is ruthlessness.
There is no hope; there is the Dark Side.

Bernie Reger wrote in message <37FE17EA...@nwu.edu>...

Mal Brigand

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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And they SUCK BIG TIME!!

--

Mal Brigand. "Sorry about the mess" ICQ#32607177
AFS Millennium Falcon. http://www.millenniumfalcon.f9.co.uk


Darth Ewok <Peter...@tesco.net> wrote in message
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policrat'

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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Bernie Reger <bre...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
news:37FE17EA...@nwu.edu...

> I wonder if anyone can help me with a small problem. In reading many of
> the StarWars novels out there (most by Bantam Books), the story makes
> mention of a time when the Emperor came back as a clone of himself.
> During this time, Luke turned over to the dark side if only for a brief
> time.
>
> Does any one know the name of this story? So many books make reference
> to these events, and I'd like to read of them first hand.

It wasn't in a novel: it was the 'Dark Empire' comic series, scripted by Tom
Veitch with art by Cam Kennedy, still available as a trade paperback. This
started off very promisingly - majestic, brooding art, intelligent,
well-thought-out script - but as it progressed, it went downhill. After the
success of the original six-issue 'Dark Empire' series, the one-shot
'Lightsider' was produced and an arc of three more six-comic series was
envisaged (IIRC). Someone at LucasFilm didn't like 'Lightsider', however, so
it's never been published. Then deadlines got in the way and the rest of the
arc, starting awkwardly where 'Lightsider' finishes, all ended up being
compressed into the 6-issue 'Dark Empire II' (DE2) and the two-issue
Empire's End (EE), and the rush shows in the increasingly dubious plotting
and sketchy art.

DE, DE2 and EE are shown in SW timelines, etc. as being set between 'The
Last Command" and "Jedi Search", but it has to be pointed out that they sits
somewhat awkwardly in the continuity. The first six pages (probably the best
bit of the whole series) date back to the mid-1980s, and the story was
originally supposed to be set only weeks or months after RotJ. This
time-frame was maintained in the original DE comic series, which got the
go-ahead about the same time as Zahn's trilogy, and thus conflicted
hideously with the continuity which had just been established. Although this
has been superficially corrected in the trade paperback with a new opening
crawl and some dialogue re-writing, the comics still basically comes in off
left field.

Of all Kevin J. Anderson's crimes, perhaps the worst was his decision to
incorporate DE and 'Lightsider' (which has *still* not seen the light of
day) into the continuity of the novels. This not only threw over the traces
on the promising setup for future novels left by Zahn, but also severely
constrained the room for plotline in DE2 and EE. Since then, various
attempts, most notably by Michael Stackpole and by the 'Crimson Empire'
team, not to mention the heroic fan-fiction efforts of Brendon Wahlberg,
have been made to knit the continuity together, but although DE is there to
stay, no-one's yet produced a convincing explanation of how everything gets
from the way it is at the end of TLC to the way it is at the start of DE.

On top of all this, some fans have never forgiven the comics for what they
did (the Emperor's return an inexplicable six years after his death, his
subesquent death, return, death, return, and death for hopefully the last
time; the vast variety of increasingly daft Imperial superweapons; the
mounting silliness) and Dark Empire should probably have been left out of
the continuity like Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Peter David's kids'
novels. In spite of *everything*, though, the original 6-comic DE series
itself is actually quite good. Most of the problems are because it doesn't
work at all as a sequel to Zahn.

Hope this helps,

Policraticus McEwok,
Unofficial RASSM Scotsman (Retd.)

Talya Noire

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Oct 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/8/99
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Mal Brigand wrote:

> And they SUCK BIG TIME!!
>
> --
>
> Mal Brigand. "Sorry about the mess" ICQ#32607177
> AFS Millennium Falcon. http://www.millenniumfalcon.f9.co.uk
>
> Darth Ewok <Peter...@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:7tl7a8$i6k$1...@epos.tesco.net...
> > Its in the Dark Empire comics series.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Darth Ewok, Sith Lord
> >
> > There is no weakness; there is power.
> > There is no mercy; there is strength.
> > There is no compassion; there is ruthlessness.
> > There is no hope; there is the Dark Side.
> >
> > Bernie Reger wrote in message <37FE17EA...@nwu.edu>...

> > >I wonder if anyone can help me with a small problem. In reading many of
> > >the StarWars novels out there (most by Bantam Books), the story makes
> > >mention of a time when the Emperor came back as a clone of himself.
> > >During this time, Luke turned over to the dark side if only for a brief
> > >time.
> > >
> > >Does any one know the name of this story? So many books make reference
> > >to these events, and I'd like to read of them first hand.
> > >

> > >Thanks.
> > >
> > > -Bernie Reger
> >
> >

Gee that was helpful, Mal!

Im sorry, Bernie...if I knew, Id tell you....
--
Talya, High Priestess of the Sith ICQ # 26250056
"The answer is out there, it's looking for you...
Ant it will find you..... if you want it to"

Galactic Empire TIE Fleet
http://www.kurikatafleet.pyar.com/

My homepage
http://pages.hotbot.com/diaries/princess1011/

Rich Handley

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
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Please read the FAQ. Thanks.


Bernie Reger <bre...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>I wonder if anyone can help me with a small problem. In reading many of
>the StarWars novels out there (most by Bantam Books), the story makes
>mention of a time when the Emperor came back as a clone of himself.
>During this time, Luke turned over to the dark side if only for a brief
>time.

>Does any one know the name of this story? So many books make reference
>to these events, and I'd like to read of them first hand.

>Thanks.

> -Bernie Reger

Sincerely,

Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)


Rich Handley

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
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"policrat'" <policraticus@@hotmail.com> wrote:
>It wasn't in a novel: it was the 'Dark Empire' comic series, scripted by Tom
>Veitch with art by Cam Kennedy, still available as a trade paperback. This
>started off very promisingly - majestic, brooding art, intelligent,
>well-thought-out script - but as it progressed, it went downhill. After the
>success of the original six-issue 'Dark Empire' series, the one-shot
>'Lightsider' was produced and an arc of three more six-comic series was
>envisaged (IIRC). Someone at LucasFilm didn't like 'Lightsider', however, so
>it's never been published.

Actually, it had nothing to with someone at LFL not liking it. There
were contractural problems that got in the way of its publication.
LFL liked it -- and having read it, I can tell you that it's the best
of the Dark Empire stories. However, things didn't quite go as
planned and so it never came out.

>Of all Kevin J. Anderson's crimes, perhaps the worst was his decision to
>incorporate DE and 'Lightsider' (which has *still* not seen the light of
>day) into the continuity of the novels.

I wouldn't really consider that a crime -- LFL considers the novels
and comics the same continuity, which is why Exar Kun has been in the
books and several of the novel characters have appeared in the X-wing
comics. I think the problem wasn't Kevin's -- in fact, I applaud him
for being one of the only authors to bother trying to work this piece
of continuity in -- it was that Dark Empire has never never included
on the novel timeline even though its events are integral to
understanding what Kevin is talking about. Simply acknowledging Tom's
work on the timeline would have solved this problem.

>On top of all this, some fans have never forgiven the comics for what they
>did (the Emperor's return an inexplicable six years after his death, his
>subesquent death, return, death, return, and death for hopefully the last
>time; the vast variety of increasingly daft Imperial superweapons; the
>mounting silliness) and Dark Empire should probably have been left out of
>the continuity like Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Peter David's kids'
>novels.

LOL! Okay... first, I can tell you with confidence that LFL considers
Splinter part of the current continuity. That's why Dark Horse was
allowed to do a comic adaptation. Second, Peter David didn't write
those books -- Paul and Hollace Davids did. Believe me, I doubt
you'll EVER see Peter David's name on something so poorly written. :)

>In spite of *everything*, though, the original 6-comic DE series
>itself is actually quite good. Most of the problems are because it doesn't
>work at all as a sequel to Zahn.

I agree 100% -- and that goes back to an unfortunate decision to move
the story's setting to after the Zahn books, as you so well explained
above. I've never understood some fans' dislike of it. Yes, I admit
Empire's End is rather weak, but I still rank DE in my "Dark Horse Top
Five" to this day, and DE II, while a bit redundant, is still a great
story as far as I'm concerned.

Sincerely,

Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)


Ricardo

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Oct 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/9/99
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Rich Handley <CardSaf...@unix.asb.com> wrote in message
news:SLGL3.1839$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net...

> I agree 100% -- and that goes back to an unfortunate decision to move
> the story's setting to after the Zahn books, as you so well explained
> above. I've never understood some fans' dislike of it. Yes, I admit
> Empire's End is rather weak, but I still rank DE in my "Dark Horse Top
> Five" to this day, and DE II, while a bit redundant, is still a great
> story as far as I'm concerned.
>


For me, DE has a lot of very good elements to it (the art, the Nal Hutta/Nar
Shadda sequences, the gritty battle sequences, etc.), and these parts of it
I like very much. Its downfall as far as I am concerned, though, is the
fact that the Emperor returned, and the fact that Luke went over to the dark
side. Yes, Vietch tried to provide a logical reason for the Emperor's
return, but I just didn't buy it. And, as I'm sure you can understand, if
you don't buy the fundamental premise of a story, you're not going to think
too much of it.

Boba Fett's return was a lot more believable (falling into the Sarlacc with
all that weaponry, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine him blowing his
way out of there); but the Emperor's return was more like demon possession,
transferring people's essences from one body to another, and a lot of
spiritual Force mumbo-jumbo (IMO) which I didn't care for.

Luke's turn to the dark side and subsequent return did not sit well with me
at all; it all just happened to quickly (in both directions).

Also, both of these elements (Emperor's return, Luke's turn to the dark
side) seem to completely nullify the victory at the end of ROTJ.

These things may not bother you, but they very much bother me (and, I'm
sure, many of the anti-DE'ers)-- which is why I despise, for the most part,
DE.

Ricardo

policrat'

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
to

Rich Handley <CardSaf...@unix.asb.com> wrote in message
news:SLGL3.1839$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
> "policrat'" <policraticus@@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >It wasn't in a novel: it was the 'Dark Empire' comic series, scripted by
Tom
> >Veitch with art by Cam Kennedy, still available as a trade paperback.
This
> >started off very promisingly - majestic, brooding art, intelligent,
> >well-thought-out script - but as it progressed, it went downhill. After
the
> >success of the original six-issue 'Dark Empire' series, the one-shot
> >'Lightsider' was produced and an arc of three more six-comic series was
> >envisaged (IIRC). Someone at LucasFilm didn't like 'Lightsider', however,
so
> >it's never been published.
>
> Actually, it had nothing to with someone at LFL not liking it. There
> were contractural problems that got in the way of its publication.
> LFL liked it -- and having read it, I can tell you that it's the best
> of the Dark Empire stories. However, things didn't quite go as
> planned and so it never came out.

OK. Sorry. Any way us poor mortals are ever going to see it? And speaking of
such things, what happened to the Tatooine-set novel that KJA mentions
someone (Dave Wolverton?) working on in the preface to the DE tp?

> >Of all Kevin J. Anderson's crimes, perhaps the worst was his decision to
> >incorporate DE and 'Lightsider' (which has *still* not seen the light of
> >day) into the continuity of the novels.
>
> I wouldn't really consider that a crime -- LFL considers the novels
> and comics the same continuity, which is why Exar Kun has been in the
> books and several of the novel characters have appeared in the X-wing
> comics. I think the problem wasn't Kevin's -- in fact, I applaud him
> for being one of the only authors to bother trying to work this piece
> of continuity in -- it was that Dark Empire has never never included
> on the novel timeline even though its events are integral to
> understanding what Kevin is talking about. Simply acknowledging Tom's
> work on the timeline would have solved this problem.

My problem with this isn't that KJA ought to have made things clearer. I
feel that the differences in continuity between Zahn's original trilogy and
DE were (and are) insurmountable, and that trying to put them together has
been bad for both. LFL didn't make KJA adopt DE into the novel continuity,
IIRC: he did it himself when he found out about it, which was, IMHO, a
mistake.

[passing A-wing pilot: "There's... too many acronyms!"]

I agree, by the way, that the LFL determination to maintain the continuity
is preferable to having a whole lot of contradictory novels a la Star Trek,
but then, it was their fault in the first place for not making Bantam and
Dark Horse (or more exactly, Zahn and Veitch) aware of each other.

> >On top of all this, some fans have never forgiven the comics for what
they
> >did (the Emperor's return an inexplicable six years after his death, his
> >subesquent death, return, death, return, and death for hopefully the last
> >time; the vast variety of increasingly daft Imperial superweapons; the
> >mounting silliness) and Dark Empire should probably have been left out of
> >the continuity like Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Peter David's kids'
> >novels.
>
> LOL! Okay... first, I can tell you with confidence that LFL considers
> Splinter part of the current continuity. That's why Dark Horse was
> allowed to do a comic adaptation.

Sorry. I assumed that it was invalidated by such refs. as Zahn's to how
Vader lost his arm.

> Second, Peter David didn't write
> those books -- Paul and Hollace Davids did. Believe me, I doubt
> you'll EVER see Peter David's name on something so poorly written. :)

Oops! I was misinformed there. (if in doubt, blame an anonymous source :)
*Has* he actually written anything SW before 'Skippy the Jedi Droid'?

> >In spite of *everything*, though, the original 6-comic DE series
> >itself is actually quite good. Most of the problems are because it
doesn't
> >work at all as a sequel to Zahn.
>

> I agree 100% -- and that goes back to an unfortunate decision to move
> the story's setting to after the Zahn books, as you so well explained
> above. I've never understood some fans' dislike of it. Yes, I admit
> Empire's End is rather weak, but I still rank DE in my "Dark Horse Top
> Five" to this day, and DE II, while a bit redundant, is still a great
> story as far as I'm concerned.

I feel (as I said) that KJA hamstrung DE2 rather badly, and it's only now,
after *years* of headscratching, that I've finally found a way to reconcile
EE with, say, the BFC. IMHO, it would have been *very* hard to tie DE and
The Thrawn Trilogy together even if they'd kept the original date of DE.
More *could* have been done, I suppose, if they'd let Tim and Tom know about
each other. But life's like that.

> Sincerely,
>
> Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)

Policrat'
Unofficial RASSM Scotsman (Retd.)

Dakin

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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Have you looked at the Dark Empire Sourcebook from WEG ?
If not, check it out as it goes along way IMO to provide all the continuity
info you need.

Dakin Lowe

policrat' <policraticus@@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7tom7r$5s8$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...

Humble Beginnings

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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Can anyone summarise "Lightsider" for until now I haven't heard of it.
I do have DE, DE2 and consider them outside the timeline as, having
been explained in an earlier post, they don't mesh well, even
considering Stackpole's rendition of the "massive cleaning droids"
which were repairing the the internecine Imperial fighting during DE.

I've pretty much ignored the comics since DE2, b/c of DE2, btw, except
the classic strips collections and the Tales of the Jedi stories. I
probably will get the X-Wing b/c of my love for Stackpole's work, but
the rest can sit on the shelf at the bookstore.

But there are other reasons some things don't fit into continuity.
None mention the half-droid/repulsorlift body Jedi - who's name
escapes me. And Kam Solusar is mentioned, but disappears. No one
mentions the lightsaber Vima-da-Boda gave Leia after Anderson.
There's just too much left out that the 3-part series put in. They'll
never be a regular part of continuity.

But it was Kevin J. Anderson's job as "continuity guy" and "timeline
monitor" and as Bantam's book editor that led him into making the
mistake of trying to incorporate the DE series. I agree with the
assertion that they should remain, like SoME and the Davids' books, a
separate "Elseworlds" type story.

On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:00:14 -0500, "Ricardo" <ric...@spam.com> wrote:

>Rich Handley <CardSaf...@unix.asb.com> wrote in message
>news:SLGL3.1839$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net...

>> I agree 100% -- and that goes back to an unfortunate decision to move
>> the story's setting to after the Zahn books, as you so well explained
>> above. I've never understood some fans' dislike of it. Yes, I admit
>> Empire's End is rather weak, but I still rank DE in my "Dark Horse Top
>> Five" to this day, and DE II, while a bit redundant, is still a great
>> story as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>
>

>For me, DE has a lot of very good elements to it (the art, the Nal Hutta/Nar
>Shadda sequences, the gritty battle sequences, etc.), and these parts of it
>I like very much. Its downfall as far as I am concerned, though, is the
>fact that the Emperor returned, and the fact that Luke went over to the dark
>side. Yes, Vietch tried to provide a logical reason for the Emperor's
>return, but I just didn't buy it. And, as I'm sure you can understand, if
>you don't buy the fundamental premise of a story, you're not going to think
>too much of it.
>
>Boba Fett's return was a lot more believable (falling into the Sarlacc with
>all that weaponry, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine him blowing his
>way out of there); but the Emperor's return was more like demon possession,
>transferring people's essences from one body to another, and a lot of
>spiritual Force mumbo-jumbo (IMO) which I didn't care for.
>
>Luke's turn to the dark side and subsequent return did not sit well with me
>at all; it all just happened to quickly (in both directions).
>
>Also, both of these elements (Emperor's return, Luke's turn to the dark
>side) seem to completely nullify the victory at the end of ROTJ.
>
>These things may not bother you, but they very much bother me (and, I'm
>sure, many of the anti-DE'ers)-- which is why I despise, for the most part,
>DE.
>
>Ricardo
>
>

--


"Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?
I always ask that of all my prey.
I just like the sound of it."

Humble Beginnings
ICQ: #4042534


Humble Beginnings

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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You know, I just realized IIRC=If I remember correctly.

Wish I'd known that aforehand.

--

policrat'

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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Dakin <LO...@uq.net.au> wrote in message
news:7tp5uq$7h3$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...

> Have you looked at the Dark Empire Sourcebook from WEG ?
> If not, check it out as it goes along way IMO to provide all the
continuity
> info you need.

Ah, right. The sudden emergence of the Imperial Inner Council after five
years of mysterious absence. Their successful conquest of Cour., surpassing
anything and everything Thrawn had achieved. The complete, sudden collapse
of the NR. Luke's self-promotion to the rank of Jedi Master. The
still-unexplained disappearance of Mara Jade. Luke and Lando's sudden
penchant for running around in Star Destroyers. Luke's sudden discovery,
when his ISD's been shot down on a hostile Cour., that Imperial Palace -
*his home for the past three years* - contains all this Dark Side archive
material. Wedge's unconsciencable abandonement of the Rogues and his amazing
promotion to *General* (Agh! NR fighter-pilots do *not* have US-style ranks
[admittedly, even Stack put his foot in the bantha-yad here]: (flight)
lieutenant; squadron leader; (wing) commander; etc. - RAF ranking system!).

It's possible to say 'well, that's what happens' (which I presume is what
WEG do), but it is neither pausible nor psychologically convincing. It fits
into the continuity like a Star Destroyer in a dustbin.

> Dakin Lowe

Policrat'
Unofficial RASSM Ewok (Retd.)

Rich Handley

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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"policrat'" <policraticus@@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Ah, right. The sudden emergence of the Imperial Inner Council after five
>years of mysterious absence. Their successful conquest of Cour., surpassing
>anything and everything Thrawn had achieved. The complete, sudden collapse
>of the NR. Luke's self-promotion to the rank of Jedi Master. The
>still-unexplained disappearance of Mara Jade. Luke and Lando's sudden
>penchant for running around in Star Destroyers.

Actually, Mara's whereabouts at that time has been shown in a couple
of Adventure Journal tales.


Sincerely,

Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)


Nathan Butler

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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"Can anyone summarise "Lightsider" for until now I haven't heard of
it."--Humble Beginnings

I'll leave the matter of referring to DE as an "Elseworlds" story and whatnot
alone. I've argued continuity levels far too many times here in the last year.

As for "Lightsider," it's a DH graphic novel that wound up getting cancelled.
It would've covered Luke happening upon Kam Salusar and turning him to the
Light Side. An abbreviated version of that event (though not quite as it
would've been portrayed in Lightsider) appears at the beginning of the
audiobook/audiodrama version of Dark Empire II (or at least the version that
appears in the Dark Empire audiobook CD set).

--Nathan Butler (jkth...@aol.com)
Star Wars Timeline Author

Every legend has its historian . . .

Subscribe to the SWT today.
http://www.angelfire.com/in/nbproductions/swtinfo.html

policrat'

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Oct 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/10/99
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Rich Handley <CardSaf...@unix.asb.com> wrote in message
news:A_%L3.2819$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net...

O...kay. Mara is helping co-ordinate the NR evacuation of Cour. That covers
her until, oh, half-way through the opening crawl. *Moreover* I can't see
P'alpy passing up the opportunities this presents to, firstly, use her link
to him to find out where the NR's withdrawing its forces to and drop a few
battlegroups on them, and secondly, capture her herself and use her in
corrupting Luke.

Of course, the former *could* explain why the NR got in such a mess, and it
*is* just possible that she was wandering arround 'off-camera' on Byss. I'd
just like a few more coherent references.

And none of the other problems have been tied up. I really hoped Isard was
going to steal the Lusankya at the end of IR, which would at least have
begun to make sense of where that huge great Imperial fleet that turned up
in the SWAJ and wiped itself out in the opening crawl of DE came from, but
no....

Lane Allen

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
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I have to say that this current thread on the novels (a surprisingly ON
topic Star Wars discussion) has been a refreshing change from what the
majority of this NG has degraded into these days:

off-topic discussions about Brittany Spear's breasts
fan-wank pissing matches about Star Trek vs. Star Wars
pointless statistical comparisons of Star Wars and Titanic
countless examples of cross-posting trolls and spammers

What the hell happened here? Just a few months ago this was an
interesting place to swap opinions and ideas....

Anncrispin

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
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>What the hell happened here? Just a few months ago this was an
>interesting place to swap opinions and ideas....
>

I'm afraid The Phantom Menace was what happened...

-Ann C. Crispin

Kwame

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
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Lane Allen <Lane_...@bah.com> wrote in message
news:38024F67...@bah.com...


>
> I have to say that this current thread on the novels (a surprisingly ON
> topic Star Wars discussion) has been a refreshing change from what the
> majority of this NG has degraded into these days:
>
> off-topic discussions about Brittany Spear's breasts

breasts are cool


Çheetah!

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
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No.. breasts are "dual", unless, of course you're Ann Gillian...


> -Çheetah!-

I know this is going to get me flamed.. so what?

Steve

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Oct 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/12/99
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On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:58:15 -0400, Lane Allen <Lane_...@bah.com>
wrote:

>
>I have to say that this current thread on the novels (a surprisingly ON
>topic Star Wars discussion) has been a refreshing change from what the
>majority of this NG has degraded into these days:

Just a quick question. Which newsgroup exactly are you referring to.
You posted this message to 2 of them.
rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc and alt.fan.starwars aren't the same group.

Steve O'Neil
http://www.oneil.com.au/steve/
Anti-spam
To send me an email, change the az in my address to au

Lane Allen

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to

> Just a quick question. Which newsgroup exactly are you referring to.
> You posted this message to 2 of them.
> rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc and alt.fan.starwars aren't the same group.

Sorry, you're right. I was talking about alt.fan.starwars. Right after
I hit send I realized that this thread had been crossposted. I've never
checked out rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc so I don't know if rassm has been
innundated with the same volume of moronic off-topis threads as afs
has....

Lane Allen

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Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to

> > > off-topic discussions about Brittany Spear's breasts
> >
> > breasts are cool
>
> No.. breasts are "dual", unless, of course you're Ann Gillian...

I rest my case...

Çheetah!

unread,
Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to

no, no, no.. it's "I breast my case..". <serious look>


> -Çheetah!-

Çheetah!

unread,
Oct 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/13/99
to

Where do you think they got started.. at least this NG shows a little
intellect & wit about it, though - as opposed to all those AFS'ers who
add the `©' character to their handles, as if that makes them important,
or something.. welcome to the fun group!


> -Çheetah!-

tayv...@my-deja.com

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Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99
to
In article <37FE17EA...@nwu.edu>,

Bernie Reger <bre...@nwu.edu> wrote:
> I wonder if anyone can help me with a small problem. In reading many
> of
> the StarWars novels out there (most by Bantam Books), the story makes
> mention of a time when the Emperor came back as a clone of himself.
> During this time, Luke turned over to the dark side if only for a
> brief
> time.

> Does any one know the name of this story? So many books make
reference
> to these events, and I'd like to read of them first hand.

Those references are, of course, to the sequel story-treatments
(episodes 7, 8, 9) that George Lucas sold to C20 Fox as part of
the "nine-movie-deal", due to some very unusual legal dealings the
ownership of said treatments has been in dispute ever since. This is
way Lucas now denies that those movies will ever happen.

Because of the legal problems the only known copy that exists is being
held by the legal firm of D.Whorce & D.Empyr who allowed KJA to ride
the treatments so his novels would remain incontinuity. It's all in
the AFS FAQ, but I don't think that RASSM are on-topic enough to talk
about Star Wars in their FAQ.

---
- Dug.
---


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

tayv...@my-deja.com

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Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99
to
In article <SLGL3.1839$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net>,

CardSaf...@unix.asb.com (Rich Handley) wrote:
> Second, Peter David didn't write
> those books -- Paul and Hollace Davids did. Believe me, I doubt
> you'll EVER see Peter David's name on something so poorly written. :)

Spoken like someone who's never seen any of his films... ;)

Dakin

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Oct 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/15/99
to

<tayv...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7u6ef3$t66$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <37FE17EA...@nwu.edu>,
> Bernie Reger <bre...@nwu.edu> wrote:
> > I wonder if anyone can help me with a small problem. In reading many
> > of
> > the StarWars novels out there (most by Bantam Books), the story makes
> > mention of a time when the Emperor came back as a clone of himself.
> > During this time, Luke turned over to the dark side if only for a
> > brief
> > time.
>
> > Does any one know the name of this story? So many books make
> reference
> > to these events, and I'd like to read of them first hand.
>
> Those references are, of course, to the sequel story-treatments
> (episodes 7, 8, 9) that George Lucas sold to C20 Fox as part of
> the "nine-movie-deal", due to some very unusual legal dealings the
> ownership of said treatments has been in dispute ever since. This is
> way Lucas now denies that those movies will ever happen.
>
> Because of the legal problems the only known copy that exists is being
> held by the legal firm of D.Whorce & D.Empyr who allowed KJA to ride
> the treatments so his novels would remain incontinuity. It's all in
> the AFS FAQ,

Well in that case, I've certainly been into alot of D.Whorce & D.Empyr law
firms here in Australia and seen that copy, called Dark Empire sitting in
what must have been their foyer, and I thought they were comic stores.
If this is in the AFS FAQ (wouldn't know, haven't read it all), I advise you
to delete the FAQ and ask each question and topic again to this and other
newsgroups to get your own answers.
They might be right about the problems concerning episodes 7,8,9 and Dark
Empire might have been based on them, but it is available out there along
with Dark Empire 2, Empire's End (?) which are all comics.

Dakin

>but I don't think that RASSM are on-topic enough to talk
> about Star Wars in their FAQ.
>

Rich Handley

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Oct 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/16/99
to
<<sputter giggle snort>>

Freakin' hilarious! :)


tayv...@my-deja.com wrote:
>Those references are, of course, to the sequel story-treatments
>(episodes 7, 8, 9) that George Lucas sold to C20 Fox as part of
>the "nine-movie-deal", due to some very unusual legal dealings the
>ownership of said treatments has been in dispute ever since. This is
>way Lucas now denies that those movies will ever happen.
>Because of the legal problems the only known copy that exists is being
>held by the legal firm of D.Whorce & D.Empyr who allowed KJA to ride
>the treatments so his novels would remain incontinuity. It's all in

>the AFS FAQ, but I don't think that RASSM are on-topic enough to talk


>about Star Wars in their FAQ.


Sincerely,

Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)


Rich Handley

unread,
Oct 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/16/99
to
tayv...@my-deja.com wrote:
>In article <SLGL3.1839$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net>,
> CardSaf...@unix.asb.com (Rich Handley) wrote:
>> Second, Peter David didn't write
>> those books -- Paul and Hollace Davids did. Believe me, I doubt
>> you'll EVER see Peter David's name on something so poorly written. :)
>Spoken like someone who's never seen any of his films... ;)

Oh.... good point. I'd forgotten about his films. Yah. Ugh.
Ummm... okay, I retract my former comment. :)

Sincerely,

Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)


tayv...@my-deja.com

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
In article <7u6ks7$eri$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,
"Dakin" <LO...@uq.net.au> wrote:

> > Because of the legal problems the only known copy that exists is
being
> > held by the legal firm of D.Whorce & D.Empyr who allowed KJA to ride
> > the treatments so his novels would remain incontinuity. It's all in
> > the AFS FAQ,

> Well in that case, I've certainly been into alot of D.Whorce &


> D.Empyr law
> firms here in Australia and seen that copy, called Dark Empire
> sitting in
> what must have been their foyer, and I thought they were comic stores.

D. Empire? Are you sure that's the spelling?

tayv...@my-deja.com

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
In article <M0NN3.1610$9%5.3...@dfw-read.news.verio.net>,

CardSaf...@unix.asb.com (Rich Handley) wrote:
> tayv...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >In article <SLGL3.1839$N64....@dfw-read.news.verio.net>,
> > CardSaf...@unix.asb.com (Rich Handley) wrote:

> >> Second, Peter David didn't write
> >> those books -- Paul and Hollace Davids did. Believe me, I doubt
> >> you'll EVER see Peter David's name on something so poorly
written. :)
> >Spoken like someone who's never seen any of his films... ;)

> Oh.... good point. I'd forgotten about his films. Yah. Ugh.
> Ummm... okay, I retract my former comment. :)

I had a spooky incident involving Peter A. David.

He shares my initials. Which is more coincidental than spooky.

But, as a kid, when playing spy-games, I used the "cover name" Peter
David. I did this because I thought I'd use my initials, and Peter and
David were common names. I always thought this was cute, once I
discovered Peter David's work.

But "Spy Boy" Peter's latest comic freaks me out.

tayv...@my-deja.com

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to

OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
comics, books, whatever...

What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
what would you re-jig to fit?

Dakin

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to

<tayv...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7ue5rm$rdk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <7u6ks7$eri$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,
> "Dakin" <LO...@uq.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > Because of the legal problems the only known copy that exists is
> being
> > > held by the legal firm of D.Whorce & D.Empyr who allowed KJA to ride
> > > the treatments so his novels would remain incontinuity. It's all in
> > > the AFS FAQ,
>
> > Well in that case, I've certainly been into alot of D.Whorce &
> > D.Empyr law
> > firms here in Australia and seen that copy, called Dark Empire
> > sitting in
> > what must have been their foyer, and I thought they were comic stores.
>
> D. Empire? Are you sure that's the spelling?

Are you refering to the "D.Empyr" or the Dark Empire part of my statement ?

If it's the first then I don't understand and it's not important as I was
refering to your previous statement (ie. it's your spelling).

If it's the second, then yes I'm sure the comic in question (as in the
original post) is definitely called Dark Empire, there are also two
'followup' comics called Dark Empire II (as in 2) and Empire's End. If you
are after definitive confirmation of what I'm saying, then I suggest you
look up Dark Horse's WEB site ( http://www.dhorse.com/ ).
There is also a Dark Empire Sourcebook produced by West End Games for use
with the Star Wars Roleplaying Game (which I have in front of me).

I hope that has answered you query and has been of some help.

Dakin

Simon H. Lee

unread,
Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
tayv...@my-deja.com choreographed a chorus
line of high-kicking electrons to spell out:

>
>
>OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
>series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
>comics, books, whatever...
>
>What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
>what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
>what would you re-jig to fit?

Rogue Squadron: The Animated Series. Sticking mostly to the
books and comics for the main plotline but with other original plotlines
thrown in every so often. It's a familiar premise and would probably be
easier than having to wrangle the rest of the novels around.

--
RASSM FAQ -- http://www.shavenwookie.com/rassmfaq.html
| __
| (__ * _ _ _ _ "The cinema is not a slice of life but
| __)|| | |(_)| \ a piece of cake." --Alfred Hitchcock
|__________________ <*> A L L D O N E ! B Y E B Y E ! (-o-)

Çheetah!

unread,
Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
tayv...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
> series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
> comics, books, whatever...
>
> What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
> what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
> what would you re-jig to fit?

I ould *definitely* go with the first Marvel comic series, on the
provision that the Marvel bigwigs (aka bean-counters, brown-nosers &
censor-playtoys) keep their slimey little mitts out of the production
details & just concentrate on copyright issues..

Even though I'm a Marvel fan thru & thru, I just can't stand ANY of
their animated series.. they can't even seem to get the voice
characterizations right.. much less remain canon to the issues they've
re-written for animation.. those old Marvel stories are fine without
having every cartoon script hack from Marvel dicking with `em..

(Imagine seeing an animated version of "the Stenax Shuffle"...<G>)

<salud> Here's to the Hoojib's!

> Çheetah!
. 8========#<^>#========8 8========#<^>#========8
`Virtual Dyslexia: http://www.primenet.com/~ccheetah/index.html
> StarWars Trivia: http://mercury.beseen.com/quizlet/r/17378/quizlet.js
> StarTrek Trivia: http://mercury.beseen.com/quizlet/m/30788/quizlet.js
> Tolkien! Trivia: http://mercury.beseen.com/quizlet/m/30784/quizlet.js
. 8========#<^>#========8 8========#<^>#========8

--- It's not so *easy* to catch the drunken god....
-- "The drunken man confuses Demons.. or something like that..."
- "The drunken Demon confuses Mankind.." [it made sense in context]

"Magic beads! we stole`em from a Demon, we did. ..lucky for us it was a
*stupid* Demon.."

Darth Bob

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
If you stay true to Lucas' past projects, an animated series would be about
the Gungans.

--
Visit my Website at:
www.freeyellow.com/members8/korra or
www.hotyellow98.com/bobschuster
Sith Lord defender of the Empire

remove nospam for e-mail


<tayv...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7ueeoj$om$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...


|
|
| OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
| series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
| comics, books, whatever...
|
| What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
| what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
| what would you re-jig to fit?
|

Squirk

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
I'd get Paul Dini and Bruce Timm to do a Jedi Academy kind of thing.

fmc

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Oct 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/18/99
to
Yeah! Rik, Dani, Chihdo, and Plif! Go marvel!

What about Hiro (sp?) and the Iskalonians? Man, from about issue 55 or so
til about...well, the end of ROJ, those were *great* comics. The Nagai
sucked, of course, as did the whatchamacalits that followed (fat beetle
pirates?!), but by then the art had passed into what I very politely call
'surreal'. Not to say, 'crap'.

Oh, it *was* good to see Rik Duel show up in the Ann Crispin books. Would be
cool to see some Zeltrons, though, in the books. Especially female ones...
Jonathan
(using my dad's email account--reply to chic...@hotmail.com)

Çheetah! wrote in message <380ACE2B...@hotmale.com>...

tayv...@my-deja.com

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Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to
In article <7ue8t5$1s0$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,

"Dakin" <LO...@uq.net.au> wrote:
> <tayv...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7ue5rm$rdk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <7u6ks7$eri$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,
> > "Dakin" <LO...@uq.net.au> wrote:

> > > > Because of the legal problems the only known copy that exists is
> > > > being
> > > > held by the legal firm of D.Whorce & D.Empyr who allowed KJA to
> > > > ride
> > > > the treatments so his novels would remain incontinuity. It's
> > > >all in
> > > > the AFS FAQ,
> > > Well in that case, I've certainly been into alot of D.Whorce &
> > > D.Empyr law
> > > firms here in Australia and seen that copy, called Dark Empire
> > > sitting in
> > > what must have been their foyer, and I thought they were comic
> > >stores.

> > D. Empire? Are you sure that's the spelling?

> Are you refering to the "D.Empyr" or the Dark Empire part of my
> statement ?

You really don't get the joke, do you?

Policraticus

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Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to

tayv...@my-deja.com wrote:

> OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
> series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
> comics, books, whatever...
>
> What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
> what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
> what would you re-jig to fit?

I wouldn't. Simple as that. A computer game based on the HttE trilogy,
perhaps. Or I'd string Lucas up by his toenails until he agreed to make
Epp.VII-IX.

Sincerely,

Rich Handley

unread,
Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to
tayv...@my-deja.com wrote:
>OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
>series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
>comics, books, whatever...
>What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
>what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
>what would you re-jig to fit?

I'd do a continuation of the X-wing comic series, which I consider the
high point of Dark Horse's turn at the reigns. Canceling X-wing, in
my opinion, was a grand mistake. The series is perfectly suited to
animation, though, so I'd almost prefer it come back in that format.
As for juggling continuty -- I'd try very hard not to.


Sincerely,

Rich Handley (Card...@NO-SPAMunix.asb.com)


Çheetah!

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Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to

Let's not forget the Lahsbees.. especially around puberty time..

And I definitely want an episode that tours Zeltros.. now *that* would
be bitchin'!!


> Çheetah!
. 8========#<^>#========8 8========#<^>#========8
`Virtual Dyslexia: http://www.primenet.com/~ccheetah/index.html
> StarWars Trivia: http://mercury.beseen.com/quizlet/r/17378/quizlet.js
> StarTrek Trivia: http://mercury.beseen.com/quizlet/m/30788/quizlet.js

JRRTolkien Trivia: http://mercury.beseen.com/quizlet/m/30784/quizlet.js


. 8========#<^>#========8 8========#<^>#========8

--- It's not so *easy* to catch the drunken god....
-- "The drunken man confuses Demons.. or something like that..."

- "The drunken Demon confuses Mankind.." [it makes sense in context]

Glenn Misztal

unread,
Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to
Okay, here's what I'd do, not based on if I was given run on an animated
series, but if I was asked to do a comic and a novel as well.

1) If I made an animated series I'd call it Star Wars : Bounty Hunters.
Boba Fett and a couple of others compete for bountys and it could have a one
shot on a specific bounty Hunter every week. Jabba could be in this as well.
It'd be very much like the X-Men animated series.

2) A comic called "Star Wars : Lady Vader" where a mystery Jedi woman is
wearing a prototype of Darth Vader's suit (without the helmet, but the mask
and long flowing hair and very curved - hubba hubba!) is assasinating New
Republic World representatives with a lightsaber. Mara and Leia accuse each
other of being this mystery woman, Mara because she used to be a Dark Jedi
and Leia because the Noghri used to give her that title.
In the end, the killer is revealed. (Kinda goofy, I know...)Who is it you
wonder??? Hmmmm....

3) Books? Once the new trilogy is written, I'd try to tie them into a new
novel post NJO. Knowing some idiot in the future he'll write a novel where
we see "Jar Jar Binks - last surviving Gungan". Grrrrr.... I'd also
definately make sure that the novels point out the difference between a Dark
Jedi and a Sith and piss off all those canon-anal people that don't care for
the novels or movies.

Anyway, now that you've seen my suggestions, please feel free to send flames
this way!! :)

- Glenn

x...@lsh.org

Darth Maul

unread,
Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to
The Thrawn Trilogy, there will(probably) be no Episode VII, VIII & IX on the
bigscreen, so why not make an animated series out of it.

tayv...@my-deja.com heeft geschreven in bericht
<7ueeoj$om$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...


>
>
>OK, let's pretend that you've been given the task of making an animated
>series, based mainly on existing material: movies, animated stuff,
>comics, books, whatever...
>
>What would you do... what continuity shuffling would you preform...
>what would you have to keep... what would you have to leave out... and
>what would you re-jig to fit?
>

Scott

unread,
Oct 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/19/99
to

Glenn Misztal wrote ...

> Okay, here's what I'd do, not based on if I was given run on an animated
> series, but if I was asked to do a comic and a novel as well.
>
> 2) A comic called "Star Wars : Lady Vader" where a mystery Jedi woman is
>