FS: Luke/Wampa $85 shipped
Charles West
Isn't this the same slob that tried to sell it for $100 last week? I saw
these damn things selling for $120 at a show yesterday. Everybody will
have theirs in a week!
holli...@aol.com
In article <61aarl$gpa$1...@newsd-5.alma.webtv.net>,
Well heck, How are these people getting these Luke/Wampas so early
before us? I wish I knew a stocker at our local Target! Must be nice.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
wd1...@cnsvax.albany.edu
Sorry. We are going to continue to trash you scalpers. You are the
negative aspect of this hobby. So if you have nothing positive to add to
this hobby then GO AWAY!!!!
On 6 Oct 1997, KEBcoInc wrote:
> It appears that you only have negative replys to anyone's offer.
> It is getting boring to have to go through all your trash.
> If you have nothing positive to say then
> PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF !!!!
>
>
Bill Davis
wd1...@cnsvax.albany.edu
KEBcoInc
MRMIDGE1
Maybe that scalper should wipe away their tears with some greenbacks! Or
maybe they should use them on their ass?
sharon
Luke/Wampa for $85 shipped priority mail anywhere in the U.S. email if
interested.
Jedi Hush
Dont buy this. It just adds to the frustration of collecting.
If this person was selling it for 50$ then it would be alright.
But know one should have to pay extra for being a collector.
Michael J. Domark Jr.
sharon wrote:
>
> Luke/Wampa for $85 shipped priority mail anywhere in the U.S. email > if interested.
FUCK YOU YOU SCALPING BITCH!!!!!!
Ron Perovich
Jedi Hush <jedi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971012233...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> Dont buy this. It just adds to the frustration of collecting.
> If this person was selling it for 50$ then it would be alright.
> But know one should have to pay extra for being a collector.
No, that would not be alright. That's still a $5 mark up from Target's
price AND there will be shipping on top of that. If you took it off the
shelves for any reason other than for youself than you're part of the
problem. If somebody comes on here trying to sell the Target 2-pack for
$50 they are just as responsible for limiting the availability as the
people who sell it for $85.
MRMIDGE1
I agree with those remarks!!! MIDGET
DARK JEDI MASTER
I disagree! My experience is that SCALPERS buy most of the stuff around
here. I ALWAYS get extras when I can to help out friends and anyone else
who loves the art of collecting STAR WARS toys! I appreciate anyone else
who does the same! With shipping a Luke/Wampa will cost about $55 to send
properly in the US! That would not be UNREASONABLE!!
Michael Mierzwa
sharon wrote:
>
> Luke/Wampa for $85 shipped priority mail anywhere in the U.S. email if
> interested.
I'd be interested in what it cost at Target ... that is cost for those
of you who don't seem to understand this ... $45 this week or $50 before
that. I am not interested in seeing any scalping.
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
Ron Perovich wrote:
> If you took it off the
> shelves for any reason other than for youself than you're part of the
> problem.
Words of the week.
Michael Mierzwa
Brian Wright
On 10/12/97, "Ron Perovich" wrote:
>Jedi Hush <jedi...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19971012233...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>> If this person was selling it for 50$ then it would be alright.
>> But know one should have to pay extra for being a collector.
>No, that would not be alright. That's still a $5 mark up from
>Target's price AND there will be shipping on top of that. If you
>took it off
At $50, that extra $5 might not cover the box, packing peanuts, time
and gas you spent dealing with this item.
People, cost + shipping doesn't mean you (as the seller) should lose
money on the deal. I don't find anywhere between a $5 and $10 markup
unfair to someone doing you a favor. They did spend their time, gas
and energy to find this item for you. They're going to purchase a box
to place it in for shipping (at least, they have to ship it in
something and boxes and packing materials aren't free). They are
going to spend time packing, labeling and taping the box. They are
going to spend some gas to get it to the post office to ship it to
you. They already spent gas to get the item for you from the store.
You can't just expect that they already have boxes and materials. You
can't expect them to give up their time to pack and ship this. You
can't expect that they have a post office outside their front door to
avoid gas costs.
You don't think twice about giving a 15% tip to a waiter or waitress
or tipping a delivery person for a pizza. Think of this person as the
same thing. They deserve at least to break even and perhaps even $5
or so for their time and effort.
And no, you (as the buyer) shouldn't expect them (the seller) to pay
for the shipping costs. That should also be the buyer's
responsibility. By adding all these incidental costs up, the seller
could lose anywhere between $5 and $10 on incidental shipping costs
(not including postage). I, naively, fell into this trap at least
once. But, since I had already made the deal, I wasn't going to back
out of it. I took the loss and went on. But, I won't do it again.
This may also explain why few people will actually do cost + shipping
on items.
So, the next time you think cost + shipping, the seller shouldn't lose
money on the deal to get this item to you. However, the additional
cost is NOT incremental according to price. Meaning, the additional
fees should only amount to $5 to $10 no matter the cost of the item.
That is, unless the item is the size of an R2D2 Cooler. And then, an
exception should be made.
Now, this also means that the postage costs should be just that.
Postage costs. They should not be padded to include packing materials
along with raising the price of the item by $5 and $10. That is not a
fair deal. However, the seller should be compensated enough so they
are not out even 1 cent on the deal. To be even more fair, they should
be tipped for their generosity.
--
Brian Wright <wri...@dilbert.netcom.com> // NeXT and MIME Mail supported.
(c)1997 Brian C. Wright. Permission is given for this article to be freely
transmitted, received, read and archived. This article MAY NOT be used to
obtain my email address for purposes of unsolicited mailing lists or
advertisements.
Craig
On 15 Oct 1997 02:36:17 GMT, wri...@dilbert.netcom.com (Brian Wright)
wrote:
Brian I couldn't agree with you more!!
Craig
Dallas, Tx
Remove spamsucks if you wish to reply
Reid Worth
Brian Wright wrote:
> On 10/12/97, "Ron Perovich" wrote:
> >Jedi Hush <jedi...@aol.com> wrote in article
> ><19971012233...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> >> If this person was selling it for 50$ then it would be alright.
> >> But know one should have to pay extra for being a collector.
> >No, that would not be alright. That's still a $5 mark up from
> >Target's price AND there will be shipping on top of that. If you
> >took it off
> At $50, that extra $5 might not cover the box, packing peanuts, time
> and gas you spent dealing with this item.
> People, cost + shipping doesn't mean you (as the seller) should lose
> money on the deal. I don't find anywhere between a $5 and $10 markup
> unfair to someone doing you a favor. They did spend their time, gas
> and energy to find this item for you.
Bzzzzt! I still attest that the "charging for time, gas, and energy
(?!)"
argument is bologna. Say I offer to pick up something for someone..or
I buy something on a whim b/c I know of someone who needs it...the
key point here is..I'm already out there lookin' b/c I chose to. I
don't see why I should charge for this 'service' when I was gonna stop
by TRU anyway. If you're (not YOU specifically) running around buying
stuff solely to sell the next day and not looking for anything for
yourself...that ain't my problem. You need more things to occupy your
time.
>They're going to purchase a box
> to place it in for shipping (at least, they have to ship it in
> something and boxes and packing materials aren't free). They are
> going to spend time packing, labeling and taping the box. They are
> going to spend some gas to get it to the post office to ship it to
> you. They already spent gas to get the item for you from the store.
Really now..how much does a cardboard box run these days? Packing
materials aren't free? Save Sunday's newspaper..or the bubble wrap
from a package you received recently. I'm sorry, but I've never had
to cough up any money for a cardboard box (Eh..even before I got a
job in the receiving dept. of a hardware store)..or packing material.
Even if you do..we're talking chump change that can't even get you
a coke from a machine. And once again with the gas thing....nuh-uh.
For most people, I highly doubt the nearest post office is Sooooo
far away that the lost gas really becomes a factor (for me..maybe
4-5 miles off my regular daily route..s'about 1/5 of a gallon..like
I'm really going to tell the buyer.."Nah, man...that's $.20 in gas
money ya gotta pay.")
> You can't just expect that they already have boxes and materials. You
> can't expect them to give up their time to pack and ship this. You
> can't expect that they have a post office outside their front door to
> avoid gas costs.
Oh yeah...time spent packing it up? Please..I'm not a nationwide
distributor or something..it takes 5-10 minutes max to pack it
all up and put it by the door to take with you the next day..where
I'll proceed to spend that 20 cents to get to the PO. I can
pack it up and watch TV at the same time...gotten quite adept at it.
> You don't think twice about giving a 15% tip to a waiter or waitress
> or tipping a delivery person for a pizza.
That's because they get paid less than other lower wage peoples and that
tip is usually a significant part of their income. If this relaying of
merchandise from a retail store to someone in Nebraska is a significant
chunk of yer income..well..there's some term generally used to describe
such folk :P
>Think of this person as the
> same thing. They deserve at least to break even and perhaps even $5
> or so for their time and effort.
As I said..for the most part..it's time and effort I would be spending
on my behalf anyway..anything that wasn't, is negligible and is hardly
worth requesting money for.
> By adding all these incidental costs up, the seller
> could lose anywhere between $5 and $10 on incidental shipping costs
> (not including postage). I, naively, fell into this trap at least
> once. But, since I had already made the deal, I wasn't going to back
> out of it. I took the loss and went on. But, I won't do it again.
> This may also explain why few people will actually do cost + shipping
> on items.
Must've been one heck of a package. Surely that was kind of a rare
occurence, no? It certainly doesn't cost that much to send say..2-3
figures..one free PO Priority Mail box and the $3 takes care of that.
Even the coupla times I sent some major packages (some $100+ worth
of stuff inside), there were no humongoloid costs over and above the
postage.
> So, the next time you think cost + shipping, the seller shouldn't lose
> money on the deal to get this item to you. However, the additional
> cost is NOT incremental according to price. Meaning, the additional
> fees should only amount to $5 to $10 no matter the cost of the item.
> That is, unless the item is the size of an R2D2 Cooler. And then, an
> exception should be made.
Maybe not. Like I said..to ship a lil' package is going to 'cost' less
(beyond postage). Heck, if it's small enough..there are no added costs,
or at least, no reason for any. If it's a rather large shipment..then
mebbe a little extra for a sturdy box isn't unreasonable. Since this
is more'n likely an exception..unlike ya say below, I think it should
just be chalked up as shipping expenses..although...explain this
to the buyer, so he doesn't wonder why you charged $8 for shipping, but
the stamp on the box says $5.25.
> Now, this also means that the postage costs should be just that.
> Postage costs. They should not be padded to include packing materials
> along with raising the price of the item by $5 and $10. That is not a
> fair deal. However, the seller should be compensated enough so they
> are not out even 1 cent on the deal. To be even more fair, they should
> be tipped for their generosity.
Ah..but the waiters don't incorporate the tip into the price of the meal
on top of what you leave on the table. If there's to be a tip on the
part of the buyer, it should be a surprise to the seller..it most
certainly should not be requested by the seller. That's like a grocery
bagger carrying the old lady's bags to her car and proceeding to extend
his hand along with a small cough.
This ain't a personal attack or anything. But I've mailed somewhere near
a hundred packages (and probly received more ;P) and there's never been
any exorbitant costs beyond the postage. There's maybe a dime or quarter
lost somewhere, but..big deal. More often than anything, I've
underestimated
postage itself and eaten a dollar..but I don't really mind b/c it
happens just as often with stuff I have sent to me. Many times have I
paid say $3 in postage and the stamp on the box says $3.76 or something.
Reid Worth
[ ]
| |
/ \
{ }
| |
| |
| |
|_____|
absolut zero
Ron Peritore
Jayjammal wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
> I'd like to argue a point with you. If "you" the collector is looking for a 2
> pak (or any item for that matter) and you happen to find someone selling/
> trading for it then it is up to you to make the decision to go ahead with the
> deal. We are both agreed on that point. But when a sale/trade is made there
> are a few things that need to be taken into concideration. Tax for one. 2
> pak including tax came out to a little over 48$. Now thats not even
> concidering popcorn/box for shipment. So lets asume another 8-10$$ as thats
> what it cost me (I picked one up for a friend who didnt have a target around
> him...for cost I might add.)
$8-10 for popcorn and a box? Boxes are free at supermarkets. They'll
give you as many as you want and they have just about every size and
shape you can think of. Stuff it with crumpled newspaper or magazines
(i actually prefer this to popcorn, it keeps stuff from moving around
better). This isn't a flame, just trying to help you cut your shipping
costs. By the way where did you buy these packing materials that cost
so much money.
Ron
Michael Mierzwa
Jayjammal wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
I didn't see any references, so I'm not sure if you are talking to me or
anther person. I will go ahead and answer.
> I'd like to argue a point with you. If "you" the collector is looking for a 2
> pak (or any item for that matter) and you happen to find someone selling/
> trading for it then it is up to you to make the decision to go ahead with the
> deal. We are both agreed on that point. But when a sale/trade is made there
> are a few things that need to be taken into concideration. Tax for one.
Never had a problem with that. Do a dejanews check on my posts dating
last year about this time, and you will see that I never chases after
that. In fact, I don't care about rounding. Then again, I don't make
it my business to make it my business on trades.
> 2
> pak including tax came out to a little over 48$.
If you were lucky enough to buy it on sale, remember some people did buy
these at $50. So there is room for some 2 Packs to be traded 1 item =
$55 or so in cash. But not being an accountant I will just round it to
$55 as a reasonable max.
> Now thats not even
> concidering popcorn/box for shipment. So lets asume another 8-10$$ as thats
> what it cost me (I picked one up for a friend who didnt have a target around
> him...for cost I might add.) So even though there is a sticker price of say
> 45$ it isn't the total cost to sell/get it to someone.
Usually I reused popcorn from other deals or eat the cost, if it is a
friend, I'm willing to take a loss. But then again, I don't have 20
friends across the global who I am shipping things to, just a few. But
the more I read this, I think you are addressing somebody else's post.
> Not to mention (and
> ofcourse this is debatable, but I happen to agree with it) time and gas should
> be concidered.
Time and gas ... ?!?! Um, if my friends charged me for time and gas and
energy (remember the human body needs Twinkies and Jolts in order to
move around), then I would consider getting a new batch of friends. The
fact of the matter of gas and time is this, if you are making a special
trip at the *request* for a *friend*, then it really is a matter between
you two. But if you are already going to the stores, then your time is
really being spent on your stuff.
For example, when I drive to work in the morning, if my kid sister needs
a ride, I drop her off at the BART station. If she needs me to return
videos to the rental place, then I do it. Urban Air Quality Boards
consider this process, "multiple trips", to be good for the environment
and actually save you the driver money. Don't tell me that if you need
a Slave Leia, and on a trip for ONLY your 'friends' purchases that you
will not buy her for yourself. At the very worst you should proportion
out the cost of that item and then calculate the wear and tear on your
"single trip". I believe the IRS has numbers and figures for wear and
tear, but the IRS doesn't factor Big Macs or Slushies into the numbers.
(NOTE: I'm not trying to imply you eat these things, but I *am* trying
to make charging for time seem creepy and dirty.)
> Someone on the newsgroup mentioned tipping a waiter/ress after
> having a meal. Thats just common decency right??? And if service is really
> good then you might concider tipping a little more to show your appreciation.
> So why not "tip" someone for something you really want! or therefore for good
> service.
Actually for a few deals, I have thrown in packs of cards ... and I do
have plans for the future that reward people. But my accounts will
frown on this, because it incures additional costs ... or so they say.
;)
NOTE: I don't have accounts.
> It seems like we've all got caught up in this watch out for the
> scalper thing and have lost something along the way. We all need to sit back
> and really think about about what collecting means to us personaly. I dunno.
> There has been alot of negatism floating around on the NG and I'm not
> promoting scalping, but this NG is after all a place to post ads...no matter
> how silly they really are.
Actually you might read the group charter and such. This is not a place
to *just* post ads. There are marketplace groups for that, but this is
a *general* collecting group for the non-vintage toys.
BTW the vintage group is a much less negative than RASSCM. In fact,
notice that many of the older collectors would touch this group. It is
because of the negativism which is the result of vanheads which are
around because of the wild demand.
Personally, I think that buy educating the new readers on this group we
have our BEST hope of making RASSCM a more friendly environment. If you
really have a business and really are interesting in PROFIT, then there
is Toy Shop magazine (a nice magazine BTW).
> I'd much rather like to see some really good
> trades going on and less of this people bashing. From all ends. Funny thing
> is I was remembering back to when I was kid and I'd go in to check out the KB
> toy store and ofcourse would wind up looking at SW figures. Back then if a
> figure wasn't on the shelf then it wasn't on the shelf...and someday I'd find
> it. There was none of this "bastard scalper beat me to it" mentality and even
> today when I walk in to find nothing new I seldom think @ss holes beat me to
> it again.
Well, I don't remember as a kid watching older adults run through Target
or TRU to grab the new shipments of SW figures. We kids did, but we
also helped everybody pick through the pack. But I think the thing that
kept collecting in 1980 so much more civil was that kids back then
rarely had tons of $$$$ to buy every hot figure. Today as adults we do,
and some of these adults have realized that they can actually make a
profit by buying hot figures and reselling them to collectors.
But as this is not directed at me, perhaps I've rambled too long.
Michael Mierzwa
BTW I don't collect, to collect, I buy the stuff because I like it
Jayjammal
Hi Michael,
I'd like to argue a point with you. If "you" the collector is looking for a 2
pak (or any item for that matter) and you happen to find someone selling/
trading for it then it is up to you to make the decision to go ahead with the
deal. We are both agreed on that point. But when a sale/trade is made there
pak including tax came out to a little over 48$. Now thats not even
concidering popcorn/box for shipment. So lets asume another 8-10$$ as thats
what it cost me (I picked one up for a friend who didnt have a target around
him...for cost I might add.) So even though there is a sticker price of say
ofcourse this is debatable, but I happen to agree with it) time and gas should
having a meal. Thats just common decency right??? And if service is really
good then you might concider tipping a little more to show your appreciation.
So why not "tip" someone for something you really want! or therefore for good
scalper thing and have lost something along the way. We all need to sit back
and really think about about what collecting means to us personaly. I dunno.
There has been alot of negatism floating around on the NG and I'm not
promoting scalping, but this NG is after all a place to post ads...no matter
trades going on and less of this people bashing. From all ends. Funny thing
is I was remembering back to when I was kid and I'd go in to check out the KB
toy store and ofcourse would wind up looking at SW figures. Back then if a
figure wasn't on the shelf then it wasn't on the shelf...and someday I'd find
it. There was none of this "bastard scalper beat me to it" mentality and even
today when I walk in to find nothing new I seldom think @ss holes beat me to
Hunt? The rush of adrenaline after finding something you've been looking for.
Collecting doesnt come easy, it never has...well not to me anyways. It's a
hobbie and all of us need to remember that. Now ofcouse certain entropeneurs
are going to try and feed off our desire but that goes to be said for most
everything of value in this world...materialistically speaking that is.
Anyways thats about all I have to say.
~J~
Michael Mierzwa
Brian Wright wrote:
> On 10/12/97, "Ron Perovich" wrote:
> >> If this person was selling it for 50$ then it would be alright.
> >> But know one should have to pay extra for being a collector.
>
> >No, that would not be alright. That's still a $5 mark up from
> >Target's price AND there will be shipping on top of that. If you
> >took it off
>
> At $50, that extra $5 might not cover the box, packing peanuts, time
> and gas you spent dealing with this item.
Box ... well if you are having to buy these things for strangers ... why
do you go out of your way to buy a box (when free ones are lying around
at many stores ... just ask for them). And try using newspaper as Ron
suggested. I've been buying vintage figures for about 2 years now
through the internet, and I do repeat business with collectors who use
both peanuts and newspaper. In fact, they even recycle their boxes.
And time and gas!?!? If a friend of mine asked me to make a special
trip RIGHT THAT MINUTE (and I actually have made this request of a
friend of mine), then sure. (But I will add that this friend of mine
never charged me for gas or time or tax or heck ... the figures in some
cases ... but then again, we've been friends since 1980.) But if you
are going out to buy your OWN exclusive figure or make a trip in which
you are out to find your own stuff, then you are *already* out there.
You would have *already* spent time and gas. PS: for those of you who
are muscle car owners like myself, gasoline is nothing compared to the
mileage you put on your pride and joy, so if you are really
'account-like' then you should also:
Add a cost of tire mileage (these should be replaced every so often ...
we don't want SW Collectors getting into accidents);
Add the cost of motor oil (depending on your auto you should at least
change it once every several thousand miles);
Add the cost of filters (I personally have an in-line fuel filter, air
filter, oil filter, PVC valve, ... opps that is it);
Include the cost of brake fuild (I do have a leak in one of my cylinders
.... just haven't felt like changing it, because it is minor);
Add the cost of your own personal energy expenditure (BTW anybody else
notice that milk costs more per gallon than gasoline Hi-Test?).
OK, does the above seem petty and stupid ... if not silly? It does to
me, but if you are going to charge time and gas for something that you
appear to enjoy and something that you are going to do anyway, there is
a saying, "When in Roman, do as the Romans." Or pardon my French, but
if any "collector" is going to be so annal as to claim to charge for
this, they do it in style and charge for everything.
I am not suggesting that people are annal for doing this. But I *am*
suggesting that they are just as gullible as the people actually paying
more than cost for SW toys. Because, these are not some high priced
ticket into the Forbes Magazine. They are toys and if you are claiming
to help people, the BEST thing you can do is LEAVE THEM on the SHELF for
somebody else who will sell them AT OR BELOW COST (that is to say, I
have and others continue to buy HOT items and trade them WITHOUT nickle
and diming collectors).
No I 110% agree with Ron. If you are not going to sell at list, then
get out of the GOOD SAMARTIAN business, because it will only cause you
grief. You will end up spending your time trying to defend your
profiting off of trips to the toy store that you most likely would have
made anyways.
> People, cost + shipping doesn't mean you (as the seller) should lose
> money on the deal. I don't find anywhere between a $5 and $10 markup
> unfair to someone doing you a favor. They did spend their time, gas
> and energy to find this item for you. They're going to purchase a box
> to place it in for shipping (at least, they have to ship it in
> something and boxes and packing materials aren't free). They are
> going to spend time packing, labeling and taping the box. They are
> going to spend some gas to get it to the post office to ship it to
> you. They already spent gas to get the item for you from the store.
Then why on this EARTH do they get into doing this in the first
place??? If it is because they want to help, I assure you that there
are people who will do it at a loss. I have. People have for me. And
people do it all the time.
Now before replying, I hope you've read this far first, because on a $45
item, there is nothing wrong with rounding the cost to the nearest
dollar. Afterall, if I'm going to claim that people who charge for TIME
are ANNAL, then I would be just as bad if I did not endorse rounding
costs to the nearest dollar. If you do not think this happens, then I
will go as far as to suggest that you have not dealt with the "cool
collectors". By cool I mean the people who really are into SW because
they like it, and not the fair weather fans who jumped on board because
they wanted something for people to identify them with.
> You can't just expect that they already have boxes and materials. You
> can't expect them to give up their time to pack and ship this. You
> can't expect that they have a post office outside their front door to
> avoid gas costs.
If they have been trading on RASSCV, then they ought to have boxes. If
they are resourceful enough to find HOT toys, then they hopefully they
can take FREE boxes from local stores. In CA it is standard practice
for most stores (grocery, toys, and retail) to place boxes out back for
the community to RECYCLE, but that might be because CA has little rain
so the boxes don't melt. ;)
If somebody is selling something at cost, the first thing I do is ask
"WHY". They are either trying to help and helping includes spending
time or they are part of the problem.
> You don't think twice about giving a 15% tip to a waiter or waitress
> or tipping a delivery person for a pizza. Think of this person as the
> same thing. They deserve at least to break even and perhaps even $5
> or so for their time and effort.
Actually the difference is that at a resturant you are BUYING a pizza.
You went their just for that. In RASSCM and RASSCV people are often
trading or asking for help. If people want to buy new things the minute
they hit the shelves, then go to your local comic shop. They have
already itemized their costs. For example, a comic store I go to to buy
SW Galaxy Magazine (what a mag is this, trust me it has nothing to do
with only toys ... remember I *am* a SW fan first, and then a collector)
the store buys cases of figures. They cost more because they have added
in their costs.
> And no, you (as the buyer) shouldn't expect them (the seller) to pay
> for the shipping costs. That should also be the buyer's
> responsibility. By adding all these incidental costs up, the seller
> could lose anywhere between $5 and $10 on incidental shipping costs
> (not including postage). I, naively, fell into this trap at least
> once. But, since I had already made the deal, I wasn't going to back
> out of it. I took the loss and went on. But, I won't do it again.
> This may also explain why few people will actually do cost + shipping
> on items.
Funny, in a FREE MARKET shipping is negotitable. If the seller
continues to loose $5 to $10 per purchase, then maybe ... just maybe he
or she should let the retail warehouses sell this things. What it
honestly sounds like you continue to advocate is a justification for
MIDDLE-MEN.
It is really sad that in a day of government cut-backs and corporate
downsizing to see such arguements, because most second year business,
economic, or engineering students can tell you that in order to make
good money you need to provide a VALUABLE service. Not buying $10
packing and shipping materials, when your competitors are doing it for
FREE.
> Now, this also means that the postage costs should be just that.
> Postage costs. They should not be padded to include packing materials
> along with raising the price of the item by $5 and $10. That is not a
> fair deal. However, the seller should be compensated enough so they
> are not out even 1 cent on the deal. To be even more fair, they should
> be tipped for their generosity.
Do you tip the toll booth taker on your toll road? Did you ever tip
your High School teachers (they probably have provided the MOST valuable
service to you in your life)? Do you tip your local cable company? Do
you tip the grocery store stock boy (he did unpack and carry everything
to those shelves for you)? Do you tip your local firefighters, they are
there to save your very LIFE?
I think you might not. I'm sorry, but your post sounded more like a
justification for high prices and any question. It sounded like a
request for scalper welfare ...
Michael Mierzwa
Michael Mierzwa
Jayjammal wrote:
>
> I think time spent is more refering to time that the sender had to take out of
> his or her schedule to run around and ship the package.
OK, then the seller should not have offered his or her time. If I
thought it would put me out $10 to send an Ackbar to somebody needing
the fish, then I would never have offered.
It is simple, either people are interesting in profiting off of others
or they are willing to give them a hand. I have traded EXCLUSIVES to
people in places where they are almost impossible to find for PEG
WARMERS. I could have just sold at cost and $3 shipping (US POSTAL
SERVICE), but I like the idea of trading.
Why? Because if you look for the Michael Mierzwa Vanhead Corporation,
you will not find it. I do have a day job ... what you ask, I am a
researcher estimating the risk of drought and I recommend water
management practices given this risk. I *do* have a very good idea
about COST and BENEFIT. Anybody trying to get into any business, needs
to understand that the world will not stand still for them. People
*are* interested in the bottom dollar. And it sounds like some people
are still suggesting that people should be PAID for VOLUNTEERING to
help. Personally, I was brought up to believe that VOLUNTEERS don't get
paid anything and in fact they LOOSE time and money, hence it is called
Volunteer help.
> As for the shipping
> costs...I personally had got the box and popcorn for free, but had I needed to
> pick it up at the pst office then the box there ( i looked) would have run 3
> somthing and I dunno what popcorn of whatever costs. Probably very little.
> The point is that some shipments may cost more and that needs to be taken into
> concideration...The 8$ went to the actual shipping arrangement...1st class
> certified, insured, return reciept.
Now this *is* something that I dead on support! :)
If shipping is a service you have to purchase (not burn calories for)
and if both sides agree: 1st class, certified, insured, and signed by
Janet Reno (OK maybe her autographing the package is a bit much, but
some humor is needed, I've noticed that RASSCM is a very serious and
dull place) then $8 on top of the cost is something I can say that *I*
have never seen draw fire in RASSCM.
For the Target Exclusive that would bring this weeks price to $45 + $8
Shipping = $53. But the best advice I can offer new traders is when
posting in public if you wish to avoid public comments, then stipulate
the charges ... itemize.
When I trade, I explicted list what I have and its condition for this
reason ... well and because I wish to please the other parties in the
trade.
> Yah know...some people actually do this as a buisness...and not just in toys
> either. I don't personally thank god (what a pain in the ass it must be).
Well the truth about most small buisnesses is that they must fight an
upstream battle. If vanheads are claiming this is their lively hood,
then they should first apply for a dealers lisense and then they should
order from Kenner. And in doing this, they are no longer vanheads
(selling retail products from the back of their truck), but legit
dealers. I encourage this and will buy non-exclusives from legit
dealers (many of whom advertise in Toy Shop and othe mags).
Michael Mierzwa
Jayjammal
I think time spent is more refering to time that the sender had to take out of
costs...I personally had got the box and popcorn for free, but had I needed to
pick it up at the pst office then the box there ( i looked) would have run 3
somthing and I dunno what popcorn of whatever costs. Probably very little.
The point is that some shipments may cost more and that needs to be taken into
concideration...The 8$ went to the actual shipping arrangement...1st class
certified, insured, return reciept.
> If this relaying of
>merchandise from a retail store to someone in Nebraska is a significant
>chunk of yer income..well..there's some term generally used to describe
>such folk :P
Yah know...some people actually do this as a buisness...and not just in toys
John D. McCutcheon
Jay:
I like what you have to say and agree completely!
What we do and say about scalpers today is unbelievable! They are the
"unseen enemy", hiding behind bushes waiting to get all the goodies as
they come out. People are just hysterical and have to blame somebody. I
have posted on this topic before, but get few responses, it is just too
much thinking for the ave. SW collector (age 15), who sees things only in
black and white and feels that there has to be someone to blame for no SW
stuff on the shelves.
Happy Hunting!
John
Jayjammal <jayj...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971015224...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Michael Mierzwa
Brian Wright wrote:
>
> Look people, my original argument included ALL of time, gas, boxes AND
> packing materials (together, not any one of those items ALONE).
Brian did you read a word a said? Because I address just that. If you
would like, I can go back to dejanews and repost it for you???
> also said at the end of the post that they should only do it to break
> EVEN. Not to make a profit. If you choose to give someone a tip for
> doing a favor for you, then that is your right. It is NOT an
> obligation. However, you should at least consider it as they did do
> something generous for YOU. Not to mention, what did they get out of
> the deal (their money back)?
Again, it is very clear you did *not* read my post. If you are
interested in breaking even, then you are no collector, you are a
business minded person. But here is the catch, the retail stores can
underbid you everytime. So what do you as a small TAX paying business
person do, provide better service. Comic stores that charge $8 per peg
warmer do just this.
I'm not interested in that service, but I have NEVER complained about
it. In fact, I have *praised* it for a very long time.
> Charity is something you do because you want to do it, you shouldn't
> EXPECT anything back. However, you as the reciever of the charity
> shouldn't EXPECT to get it any more than the person giving it. Which
> means, if someone does something nice for you, you should at LEAST
> return the favor and do something nice for them. Not just grab it
> like some little bratty child and run away.
For the record, I have never been as lucky to recieve any hard to find
item. Although I was did win a C-3PO when he was a peg warmer. But
what are you driving at exactly with "if someone does something nice for
you, you should at LEAST return the favour and do something nice for
them." ????
Please explain e.x.a.c.t.l.y. what you mean.
> With rants like these, it's no WONDER there are few good samaritans
> out there. Why would ANYONE want to do a favor for all you people who
> simply want something for nothing?
You mean with rants like *ours* it is no WONDER that you see no good
samaritans. Because there are plenty. And if people trying to make a
buck on people would leave these high demand items on the shelves for
those of us (like myself) who do sell at cost (yes including a loss of
time, gasoline, food, and risk of exposure to the elements) then there
would be more good samaritans.
It is sad really that everybody thinks theirs is not the rant, but it is
the other guy's (and I did mean to say guy, because it seems the female
collectors have their act together, few of them preach and fewer
scalp). ;)
Brian, if you are going to charge for gas, that raises the cost of the
item. Are people emailing you personally or calling you on the phone to
make special early morning trips for them??? If so, just tell them, up
front that you will charge your friends gas and time money.
Otherwise, go on your special trips when you make your own toy runs.
This way you can cut your costs. HINT: you will increase your profits &
minimize your losses ... unless you don't collect at all. You have yet
to acknowledge this at all.
Michael Mierzwa
Brian Wright
On 10/15/97, Reid Worth wrote:
>> At $50, that extra $5 might not cover the box, packing peanuts,
>>time and gas you spent dealing with this item.
>> People, cost + shipping doesn't mean you (as the seller) should
>>lose money on the deal. I don't find anywhere between a $5 and $10
>>markup unfair to someone doing you a favor. They did spend their
>>time, gas and energy to find this item for you.
>Bzzzzt! I still attest that the "charging for time, gas, and energy
>(?!)" argument is bologna.
Duh. I never said they were "charging" for this alone. I also
included packing materials, packing time, labeling, etc etc. You
shouldn't simply shouldn't expect people to give up their time, gas
and energy for you (along with packing materials and boxes). Taking
this for granted is just plain bad. Simply put, you are expecting
something for nothing. Something which you should not be doing.
Simply because YOU can manage to find boxes and packing materials for
close to free doesn't mean everyone else can.
>Really now..how much does a cardboard box run these days? Packing
Anywhere between $2-$10 depending on size. I know, I've paid for them
before because I didn't have any. Packing peanuts, about $3-4 a bag.
Newspapers, about .50 daily, about $1.00 weekend. No, I do not take
the newspaper at all. I generally do not pack with newspaper because
of the inks that rub off on the toys and newspaper also leaves the
toys loose in the boxes.
Also, everyone does not have access to stores that give away their
boxes. I've gone to several stores and requested boxes. Either they
have none, they won't give them away or they've crushed them all.
Either that or whatever they bring out are half boxes, cut up or just
generally unsuited to being used for mailing.
I am very precautious when I mail. I want to make sure there are no
mishaps. I don't want to have to deal with a damaged item being
returned. And I would rather not have to deal with finding another of
the item to replace the damaged item.
>materials aren't free? Save Sunday's newspaper..or the bubble wrap
>from a package you received recently. I'm sorry, but I've never had
>to cough up any money for a cardboard box (Eh..even before I got a
>job in the receiving dept. of a hardware store)..or packing material.
You simply can't second guess what packaging or materials someone else
might have at any given time (i.e., you can't take this for granted).
You can't EXPECT someone to even have a box in their posession. By
doing so, you are simply expecting too much. Also, the Sunday paper
isn't free. You pay for that (at least, I hope you do). Since I
don't take the newspaper at all, I have to use my time and money to go
pick one up. I don't use it anyway for reasons I stated above.
>This ain't a personal attack or anything. But I've mailed somewhere
>near a hundred packages (and probly received more ;P) and there's
>never been any exorbitant costs beyond the postage. There's maybe a
>dime or quarter
If you like losing money, that's fine with me. But, I don't. And I
think you've been exceedingly lucky to not have to purchase boxes and
packing materials. Of course, you probably take the newspaper and I
don't. So, I don't always just have random boxes and packing
materials lying around. Sometimes I do after a trade; however, most
times the boxes aren't anywhere near the size I happen to need for the
next trade. For example, for me to trade a 2-pack, I'm going to have
to buy a box. There is no way around it. I simply do not have ANY
boxes large enough to fit the item and comfortably protect it. I also
can guarantee you that a box the size of the Luke/Wampa will cost at
LEAST $5. Not to mention packing materials.
Look people, it's very simple. These people selling you cost +
shipping are doing a favor for YOU! Not vice versa. You are not
doing them a favor by buying it from them at cost + shipping. The
seller gets NOTHING out of the deal other than lost time, lost gas,
lost boxes and lost merchandise. And what do they get in return?
They get cost back on the item, which is, in essence, nothing. If
they had to purchase a box and packing materials, then they lost
money. That's it. It's that simple. And you can't expect people
just to give freely of their money at your beck and call.
You should not EXPECT anyone to simply do all this for you without so
much as a "thank you". For their generosity, you should at least tip
them. I think the word here is parsimony.
> Reid Worth
Michael Mierzwa
Brian Wright wrote:
> On 10/15/97, Reid Worth wrote:
> >Bzzzzt! I still attest that the "charging for time, gas, and energy
> >(?!)" argument is bologna.
>
> Duh. I never said they were "charging" for this alone. I also
> included packing materials, packing time, labeling, etc etc. You
> shouldn't simply shouldn't expect people to give up their time, gas
> and energy for you (along with packing materials and boxes).
OK, for over a year several collectors like myself have offered to help
people. Case in point, just this week somebody was looking for an
Ackbar and 4-LOM. In my area these are uncommon, but during my trips I
find about 10 a day (compared to the 100+ Hoth Rebel Soliders, 2-1Bs
etc). I emailed him and said that I would be happy to send him an
Ackbar (which I was keeping carded for my Ackbar collection) for $5 +
shipping, but I recommended that he wait to find this at the store or
until somebody can promise a 4-LOM also. He found somebody with them
both. But let us analyze what my deal would have been:
SERVICE/ITEM My Cost My Offer
Ackbar (& store receipt from TRU) $5.35 $5.00
Box $0.00 $0.00
USPS Priority Mail $3.00 $3.00
60 seconds TRU time ($10/hour) $0.16 $0.00
Gasoline ($1.51 gallon for 0.1 gal) $0.15 $0.00
Peanuts for Box $0.00 $0.00
4 mins at Post Office ($10/hour) $0.66 $0.00
Tape for Box (made up price) $0.02 $0.00
TOTAL $9.52 $8.00
So I would have taken a $1.52 loss if I was annal and charged another
*collector* for these nickle and dime things.
Now for notes on this, I will spare us all the boring details.
The point is this, plenty of collectors are willing to eat this $1.52
without ever expecting any return (either in the form of money or
praise). I think Ron and Reid will agree with me, in addition to
_countless_ others.
> Taking
> this for granted is just plain bad. Simply put, you are expecting
> something for nothing. Something which you should not be doing.
> Simply because YOU can manage to find boxes and packing materials for
> close to free doesn't mean everyone else can.
No, it isn't, but life isn't fair and that is *why* I will take a $1.52
cent loss, where an account will nickle and dime fellow collectors to
death. And there is no way on Earth I want to marry an account, I can
see it now, "Last night I had to listen to you prattle on about this
Yoda guy, honey, I must charge you $1.66 2/3 for my time you wasted."
> >Really now..how much does a cardboard box run these days? Packing
>
> Anywhere between $2-$10 depending on size. I know, I've paid for them
> before because I didn't have any. Packing peanuts, about $3-4 a bag.
> Newspapers, about .50 daily, about $1.00 weekend. No, I do not take
> the newspaper at all. I generally do not pack with newspaper because
> of the inks that rub off on the toys and newspaper also leaves the
> toys loose in the boxes.
Brian is there a community college near you? No, there isn't, well then
were are you finding these figures? At Target or TRU, OK most TRU and
Target stores in the United States run Sunday Adds. And they keep
extras of these adds in the entrance of the store. If you are having to
buy the weekday paper (only a fool would buy the weekend just to wrap
something), then tell the store clerk that you are a good samaritarian,
but have no wish to doing anything above your personal cost (please keep
in mind that you can bill everybody for the time you waste having to
talk to a human being). I'm sure they will hand you over a stack of
FREE news ads which you can then give to a dog to chew up and crumple
.... I wouldn't advise you crumpling the papers yourself, because then
you will not be competitive. Crumpling requires the expenditure of
calories and time, something that you seem to not have any free time
(which of course begs the question are you planning on charging me for
proofreading this post). ;)
NOTE: I'm just kidding at your expense, laugh a little, because somehow
I don't get the feeling you are doing much laughing at your computer,
but reading your sig, I see a funny and intelligent guy watching the
screen! :)
> Also, everyone does not have access to stores that give away their
> boxes. I've gone to several stores and requested boxes. Either they
> have none, they won't give them away or they've crushed them all.
> Either that or whatever they bring out are half boxes, cut up or just
> generally unsuited to being used for mailing.
Again, try and look a bit harder. If you are buying your figs at:
Target, TRU, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Service Merchdise, or KB ... these stores
are all in locations in CA that have plenty of boxes in the Back of the
store ... outside, don't walk into the stocking area. ;)
> I am very precautious when I mail. I want to make sure there are no
> mishaps. I don't want to have to deal with a damaged item being
> returned. And I would rather not have to deal with finding another of
> the item to replace the damaged item.
Cool, then in your deals you should add an extra $5 postage. "J" said
he does this, and believe me, if both sides agree in advance, this is
something that I will defend your right to do so before the world! =)
> You simply can't second guess what packaging or materials someone else
> might have at any given time (i.e., you can't take this for granted).
> You can't EXPECT someone to even have a box in their posession. By
> doing so, you are simply expecting too much. Also, the Sunday paper
> isn't free. You pay for that (at least, I hope you do). Since I
> don't take the newspaper at all, I have to use my time and money to go
> pick one up. I don't use it anyway for reasons I stated above.
I'm sorry, but this is very unclear. Please repeat. State what you
think we are saying and then disprove it. Like this:
YOU STATE: I must charge for gasoline for driving to the store.
I COUNTER: But you are already going to go for yourself, right?
> >This ain't a personal attack or anything. But I've mailed somewhere
> >near a hundred packages (and probly received more ;P) and there's
> >never been any exorbitant costs beyond the postage. There's maybe a
> >dime or quarter
Clap, clap, clap. Reid you are a good samatiran! ;)
> If you like losing money, that's fine with me. But, I don't. And I
> think you've been exceedingly lucky to not have to purchase boxes and
> packing materials. Of course, you probably take the newspaper and I
> don't. So, I don't always just have random boxes and packing
> materials lying around. Sometimes I do after a trade; however, most
> times the boxes aren't anywhere near the size I happen to need for the
> next trade. For example, for me to trade a 2-pack, I'm going to have
> to buy a box. There is no way around it. I simply do not have ANY
> boxes large enough to fit the item and comfortably protect it. I also
> can guarantee you that a box the size of the Luke/Wampa will cost at
> LEAST $5. Not to mention packing materials.
If costs are SOOOO expensive for you, then why do you bother. What I am
begining to hear from you is this "I am a small business and need
special breaks to compete against you other collectors". I think this
is wrong, but this *is* what I am hearing. I will continue to ask you
*why* you even bother in the first place???
Are you suggesting "welfare" for collectors?
And why do you charge for time? How much do *you* think your free time
is worth?
(NOTE: This is a trick question, I *will* grab IRS figures if you pick
something ungodly ... most traffic planners think $10 - $15/hour are
fair numbers.)
> Look people, it's very simple. These people selling you cost +
> shipping are doing a favor for YOU! Not vice versa. You are not
> doing them a favor by buying it from them at cost + shipping.
Ah ha! This is where your logic is incorrect. In a market transaction,
where I have and will EAT $1.52 per figure just to help somebody out,
anybody dealing with the account is doing them a favor, they are
providing a form of "welfare" because there are below cost deals
available.
> seller gets NOTHING out of the deal other than lost time, lost gas,
> lost boxes and lost merchandise. And what do they get in return?
> They get cost back on the item, which is, in essence, nothing. If
> they had to purchase a box and packing materials, then they lost
> money. That's it. It's that simple. And you can't expect people
> just to give freely of their money at your beck and call.
If the seller can't sell at competitive rates, then they should take a
form of legitimate Welfare ----> small business loans. They should not
cry "oppression".
Life is not fair, but it sounds like you are complaining that you can't
find a newspaper (which is strecthing your position thin), that you
can't find a box (you are standing on a hair now), and for some reason
*your* time is worth repayment, but somehow ours is not ... or we are
foolish and have not released it (your position is sinking). So why are
we so foolish? Simple, it is a plot to drive all the vanheads under!
;)
> You should not EXPECT anyone to simply do all this for you without so
> much as a "thank you". For their generosity, you should at least tip
> them. I think the word here is parsimony.
Again I ask:
Do you tip the stocker at your "warehouse"?
Do you tip your old teachers?
Do you tip your firefighter?
Do you tip your police officers?
Do you tip toll booth takers?
Michael Mierzwa
I did not think so.
Brian Wright
Look people, my original argument included ALL of time, gas, boxes AND
EVEN. Not to make a profit. If you choose to give someone a tip for
doing a favor for you, then that is your right. It is NOT an
obligation. However, you should at least consider it as they did do
something generous for YOU. Not to mention, what did they get out of
the deal (their money back)?
Charity is something you do because you want to do it, you shouldn't
EXPECT anything back. However, you as the reciever of the charity
shouldn't EXPECT to get it any more than the person giving it. Which
means, if someone does something nice for you, you should at LEAST
return the favor and do something nice for them. Not just grab it
like some little bratty child and run away. That's all I have to say
about manners and etiquette.
With rants like these, it's no WONDER there are few good samaritans
out there. Why would ANYONE want to do a favor for all you people who
simply want something for nothing?
--
Michael Mierzwa
Brian Wright wrote:
> On 10/16/97, Michael Mierzwa wrote:
>
> [Since most of the above was just a rehash of everything that's
> already been stated about a hundred times and not even to the point
> I'm trying to make, it is discarded.]
>
> >Brian is there a community college near you? No, there isn't, well
> >then were are you finding these figures? At Target or TRU, OK most
>
> Uh, what does a community college and obtaining figures have to do
> with one another? I don't even remember ever mentioning college at
> all in my post or even seeing it in anyone else's post.
You did not, but in my post part snipped ... I was suggesting it as a
source of newspapers.
> >TRU and Target stores in the United States run Sunday Adds. And they
> >keep extras of these adds in the entrance of the store.
> > I'm sure they
> >will hand you over a stack of FREE news ads which you can then give
> >to a dog to chew up and crumple .....
>
> Again, printed materials with inks that can rub off. I choose NOT to
> pack with these materials. These circulars are printed on newsprint.
I've not noticed a problem with this, basically it sounds like you
choose only certain packing materials. Which is fine, but please don't
expect everybody to understand that this will drive up your costs,
because there are others who are lucky enough to be able to use cheaper
alternatives.
[snip]
> My original point is that you can do whatever you like with your time,
> your money and your posessions. However, you cannot take your ideals
> and values and place them onto others (which, BTW, you are doing).
You are right, to the same extent that you are as well. ;)
> Thus, you cannot possibly expect others to hold to your ideals and
> values. If you choose to lose $1.52 on every deal, then that is your
> right. If others choose to lose money, then that is their right.
[following your example I've snipped none issues directed only at me
now.]
> Also, simply because I choose not to lose money on my deals doesn't
> make me any more of a business or dealer than you who chooses to lose
> money on the deal. If anything, I'd consider someone who is willing
> to lose money (regardless of the amount) foolish.
And thought you might think that ...
That would be a mistake, because in fact I did not include the unseen
costs of all transactions. By increasing local Kenner sales and
exporting SW figures to say somewhere else, then the in the future my
local retailers will assume that they have additional demands to meet in
my area. So in a sense, I have made a very long term and selfish
decision to increase the visible sales in my region. And my cost is the
$1.52.
Additional hidden costs include:
The reduction of demand and hence I am indirectly making a $10 or even a
$8 figure seem like a worse deal. In fact, if you take a short course
in Economics you will see that in effect I am creating a monopoly of
collectors only (or in English I'm beating vanheads at their own game).
To me this is worth both the $1.52 and more importantly the minutes we
both have spent posting.
[snipped the rest to make this short]
I really want this to be productive, as this is our time spent here. I
like to think that you might be opened minded so I have some general
questions for you.
CONCLUSION/QUESTIONS:
You seem to argue that we should not be critical of the prices people
include on shipping and cost (almost to the point that we should waive
our Economic right as externalities to comment and affect/effect the
market transaction) correct?
You have also continued to ignore Reid's or my own comments about trips
made for your personal benefit should not be billed. As Reid nor I have
billed you for the time you have spent educating us, nor have you billed
us. Clearly this is something we all do on our own. Q: Is it not true
that if you collect SW and make at least one trip a month to find stuff,
that when you buy for others, you are in fact shopping for yourself.
Because if the answer to this last question is no, and that you make
special trips, then the nature of these trips many of us do call into
question. And rightly so, because according to market based economic
theory several important logical assumptions are made and must be
maintained for business ethics to apply.
Market theory states:
#1) The Market is composed of a large number of suppliers and a large
number of purchasers. Our internet market IMO is not that large, but
let us ignore that point and assume that this condition is met.
#2) The Market is all knowing. Both supplier and consumer understand
the supply and demand curves. This is not true, or we would not be
having this thread.
Even if this theory does not work, third parties are still directly
effected by all transactions. If Mr. Mint were to buy as many of the
AT-ATs as possible, and Kenner was to limit the production of these
AT-ATs, then we all would see a secondary market rise in price. We have
a right to influence Mr. Mints purchases. As some vanheads are now
aware, I choose to exercise my right by encouraging 1:1 trades. And I
have at times traded at a serve disadvantage.
Michael Mierzwa
I've said this before, and will again:
I collect not to collect, but buy because I like SW!
Brian Wright
On 10/16/97, Michael Mierzwa wrote:
Michael,
Please pay attention. I didn't quote your article. I didn't make
reference to it or in any way say that I was talking about YOUR
article other than following it up in thread. My comment was
generalized to EVERYONE who followed up my thread because everyone
(including you) was jumping to the same conclusions. This was
evidenced by the "Look people" phrase rather than a personalized
"Michael".
What that in mind, I will continue.
>Brian Wright wrote:
>Brian did you read a word a said? Because I address just that. If
>you would like, I can go back to dejanews and repost it for you???
No, that will not be necessary, please see above.
>Again, it is very clear you did *not* read my post. If you are
>interested in breaking even, then you are no collector, you are a
>business minded person. But here is the catch, the retail stores can
>underbid you everytime. So what do you as a small TAX paying
>business person do, provide better service. Comic stores that charge
>$8 per peg warmer do just this.
It is very clear to me that your stance is that everyone must simply
just pass everything on to you (or someone else) without thought of
cost or expenses. That in order to be a 'Collector' under your
ideals, you must lose money.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. If someone chooses to pass
on something at cost + shipping without losing money, they are still
doing you a service. You are still getting the item at very close to
retail price and they haven't lost any money in the process. I also
do not consider this person in any way, shape or form a scalper. They
are still benefitting the community at large by offering an item to
someone who might otherwise not have access to it. They are ALSO NOT
making any money off the deal. They also didn't lose money and can
(and probably will) help out again.
Now, if this same person decided to mark the item up by 50% and then
start offering this deal to people, I'd have something to say about
it.
>But what are you driving at exactly with "if someone does something
>nice for you, you should at LEAST return the favour and do something
>nice for them." ????
>
>Please explain e.x.a.c.t.l.y. what you mean.
Even the people who want to break even are doing YOU a favor by
selling you this item that you might otherwise not be able to obtain.
Yes, this is the definition of a favor. Which means that you should
consider this a nice gesture on their part. After all, they didn't
have to sell it to you in the first place. Especially considering
that the only thing they will have received out of it is their money
back (i.e., no profit). Leaving it in the store wouldn't have helped
you because chances are they live nowhere near you.
Since they used their time, materials, gas (yes, gas), whathaveyou, to
obtain this item for you, you should not be blind to this fact. To be
blind to this, simply means you have no feelings or compassion towards
the other person. You're simply using them for what they can get you.
Taking advantage of someone else simply because you can is wrong.
>You mean with rants like *ours* it is no WONDER that you see no good
>samaritans. Because there are plenty. And if people trying to make
>a buck on people would leave these high demand items on the shelves
>for those of us (like myself) who do sell at cost (yes including a
>loss of time, gasoline, food, and risk of exposure to the elements)
>then there would be more good samaritans.
Being a good samaritan has nothing to do with how much money you lose.
It has to do with providing help to someone in need. If someone
provides an item that someone needs (as in the case of collecting) at
very close to cost (no profit, no loss), they are no less of a good
samaritan than you. Simply because you choose to lose money on your
good deeds, doesn't mean that your values should apply to others (that
they should lose money too).
Again, you are applying your ideals and your values onto other
individuals and claiming it as fact. When, in fact, there is no set
rule about any of this.
My opinion is clear, I feel there is nothing wrong in a slight markup
on an item to cover incurred expenses as long as no profit is made.
Particularly in boxes and packaging (which covers the brunt of
expenses). The gas and time issue, is simply something that is a nice
gesture on your part if you choose to even acknowledge it.
It's clear that you have your opinions about the way cost + shipping
should be handled. I have mine. If you choose to disagree, then
that's fine. But, your opinion is also no more valid than mine. All
the people reading will have to make their own decisions when it comes
to cost + shipping and what it means to them. However, I see nothing
wrong in wanting to break even because of incurred expenses during
cost + shipping. Obviously other people don't see a problem with it
either, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten several "I agree" messages.
I also haven't said whether or not I collect because that has nothing
to do with this issue.
Since my stance on cost + shipping should be quite clear, this will be
my last post dealing with this thread. If you wish to continue to
post, that's fine. However, there is no way the two cost + shipping
camps will reach mutual agreement here. If you wish to take it to
email, I'll be glad to further discuss it.
>Michael Mierzwa
One last thing to think about, for those people out there watching
this thread, they will now KNOW you sell at a loss. They will also
now know that I don't.