Smoking on Apollo 13
David Kendall
that I noticed:
1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
filter.
BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
*always* have a happy ending.
--
David Kendall
ken...@io.org
DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are just views.
snopes
> I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
> that I noticed:
> 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
> 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
So was using a mouse with their on-board computer, but they probably
didn't want to confuse modern-day audiences with obscure technical
detail.
- snopes
-------------------------------
My other .sig is a famous quote.
DW
Kendall) writes:
>
>I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few
errors
>that I noticed:
>
>1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
>
>2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
>
butts
>off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>filter.
>
Yeah, I noticed the tape record too. You think Lovell would of said,
"hey Ron, those weren't around then.."
Nyrath the nearly wise
: I don't recall cigarettes? Lots of "vapor" to indicate freezing conditions
: and breadth condensation, and maybe some sort of smoke was used for
: enhanced effect, but if a cigarette was shown it was probably an
: inadvertant film-making faux pas, with the cigarette used for phony
: breadth condensation supplimentation, since smoking in the capsule would
According to the "Making of Apollo 13" book, no cigarette smoke was used.
Crazy Ronnie Howard contracted a maker of industrial refrigeration units,
and had them plunge an *entire sound stage* to below freezing.
Turn on the sprinklers, and you have instant breath condensation.
Ronnie also shot the "cold capsule" scenes in order, so as the actors
got cold and haggard, the scene would call for them being more haggard
than the previous scene.
--
___
<(*)> Nyrath
D. Stanley
> > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
> Calculaters were around - HP's first extremely pricy models showed up as
> consumer products somewhere in that period, desktop versions were earlier
> (I used them in the late sixties), and the space program would have
> pre-production models available.
Calculators were around in the early 70's, but they were LED, not LCD.
I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't say which one they had.
David Mears
> > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
> Calculaters were around - HP's first extremely pricy models showed up as
> consumer products somewhere in that period, desktop versions were earlier
> (I used them in the late sixties), and the space program would have
> pre-production models available.
I bought an HP-45 calculator during my senior year in high school,
which would have been 73/74. It's predecessor, the HP-35, which was
HP's first hand held calculator, had come out about a year before
that. (I was planning to buy the 35, but the 45 came out just at
that time so I went for the newer model.) Both of those had LED
displays, not LCD. It was a few years more before HP switched to
LCD displays in their calculators.
David B. Mears
Hewlett-Packard
Cupertino CA
me...@cup.hp.com
Mr. Jerry Deichert
In article <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99> ken...@io.org (David Kendall) writes:
>From: ken...@io.org (David Kendall)
>Subject: Smoking on Apollo 13
>Date: 10 Jul 1995 14:04:47 GMT
>I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>that I noticed:
>1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
I disagree. I have a videotape of a PBS Apollo 13 documentary showing Jim
Lovell's TV broadcast before the explosion during which he plays music from
a hand-held cassette recorder. They might not have been widely available
at K-Mart in 1970, but apparently NASA had at least one.
>2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
I didn't notice an LCD calculator, but if so you're probably right.
>3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
>off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>filter.
BOOM! Smoking would probably have done a lot more in there than jam up the
CO2 filter, as evidenced by what a single spark did to Apollo 1. They
were not smoking either on the actual flight or in the movie; they were
breathing. Water vapor exhaled at 35 degrees farenheit may look like
smoke.
>BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
>*always* have a happy ending.
I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, too, since the story is well-
known to 99 percent of the people who see the movie before they even go. It
turned out the same in the movie as it did in Lost Moon, Jim Lovell's
account of the experience, on which the movie is based.
Ron Kritzman
: Yeah, I noticed the tape record too. You think Lovell would of said,
: "hey Ron, those weren't around then.."
I was working for Superscope (Sony's exclusive importer of tape recorders
back then) in 1972. On one wall of the shop was a big poster of a print
ad, featuring the model TC-50 superimposed on a background of an Appolo
capsule circling the moon. The caption read something about the cassette
recorder that went to the moon. I have not seen the film, but the TC-50
was indeed a hand held unit, with an all metal case. Very small by
'60s/'70s standards, it was also quite finicky and tended to get out of
adjustment quickly. It was soon replaced by the slightly larger and less
delicate TC-60. The TC-50 did contain some really cool stuff.
Counterrotating capstain flywheels, and the motor spun a little
generator whose output frequency provided speed control. Too high and it
slows down, too low and it speeds up.
I realize that the Appollo 13 incident took place in 1970 and my
employment with Sony's distributor was in 1972. However in '72 the TC-50
was already an obsolete model.
In any case - the presence of the recorder is not an anacronism.
Jelane K. Johnson
Just in case you weren't joking with this statement, Apollo 13
is based on real life facts. It really happened and it really had
a happy ending.
Jelane Johnson
>
Stuff Snipped
>
>BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American
>movies *always* have a happy ending.
>
>--
>David Kendall
>ken...@io.org
>DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are just views.
>
==================================================
Reasonable, open-minded discourse is a thing
to be treasured. It enhances all participants in
any discussion.
Stevens R. Miller
>BOOM! Smoking would probably have done a lot more in there than jam up the
>CO2 filter, as evidenced by what a single spark did to Apollo 1.
Probably not. One of the reasons the Apollo I fire was so bad was that the CM
was filled with pure O2. After the investigation that followed, subsequent
flights used a nitrogen-oxygen mix. They could have smoked, but...
>They were not smoking either on the actual flight or in the movie; they were
>breathing. Water vapor exhaled at 35 degrees farenheit may look like smoke.
This is correct.
--
Stevens R. Miller http://www.interport.net/~lex/
Brian Eirik Coe
Mr. Jerry Deichert <deic...@unomaha.edu> wrote:
>
>In article <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99> ken...@io.org (David Kendall) writes:
>>From: ken...@io.org (David Kendall)
>>off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>>filter.
>
>breathing. Water vapor exhaled at 35 degrees farenheit may look like
>smoke.
A minor point of clarification. The atmosphere of the Apollo spacecraft
was changed following Apollo 1. Up to that time, all of the spacecraft
had used pressurized oxygen, the Mercurys and Geminis. After that, when
they finnaly realized that it was a bomb, a much less explosive
combination was used.
But they still did not smoke in the capsule. Even if it wasn't a
consideration for the air quality, disposing of tiny flying ash would
have probebly been impossible.
--
Brian Eirik Coe * "God himself couldn't sink this ship!"
Optometrist-in-Training * --White Star Line employee at launch of Titanic
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" -The Brain, Animaniacs
"It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, ST:TNG
anthony shipman
>
> BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
> *always* have a happy ending.
Or maybe it's because the guys on the real-life Appolo 13 survived -- DUH!
Sean C. Cunningham
: 3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
: off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
: filter.
'scuse me? I don't recall seeing any of them light up.
: BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
: *always* have a happy ending.
Would you rather have had us rewrite history so that you could "enjoy" an
unhappy ending?
--
Digital Domain: sean.cu...@d2.com | <BANG!> "I'm sorry, did I break
N e t c o m: poc...@netcom.com | your concentration?"
R e a l World: Sean C. Cunningham | -Samuel L. Jackson
LAL
Kendall) wrote:
> I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
> that I noticed:
>
> 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
new but people were experimenting with cassettes for portable music
already - beat 8-tracks (low fidelity though - cassette tapes didn't take
off as a media until the advent (sic) of Dolby). I recall people
experimenting with strap-on carriers so they could listen to tapes while
skiing. Rock and Roll forever. Hi tech types like the astronauts would
have the latest gadgets. It may be true that the model used in the film
was achronistic; I didn't pay close attention.
>
> 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
consumer products somewhere in that period, desktop versions were earlier
(I used them in the late sixties), and the space program would have
pre-production models available.
>
> off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
> filter.
and breadth condensation, and maybe some sort of smoke was used for
enhanced effect, but if a cigarette was shown it was probably an
inadvertant film-making faux pas, with the cigarette used for phony
breadth condensation supplimentation, since smoking in the capsule would
the previous year. BTW, wasn't it interesting how old-fashioned all the
ground-side smoking made the characters seem. Used to be Hollywood showed
smoking as "up-to-date" - now they use it to illustrate how ancient the
characters are.
But I didn't pay close attention, again. If I had known there would be a
test, I would have taken notes.
--
Standard disclaimers apply. Nobody here ever agrees with me on anything.
DaveHatunen
anthony shipman <ashi...@ingr.com> wrote:
>ken...@io.org (David Kendall) wrote:
>>
>
>> BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
>> *always* have a happy ending.
>
Kendall is catching a lot more with that hook than I would have thought
possible. Sometimes the simplest bait is the best.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California: almost San Francisco *
* but with parking and lower car insurance rates *
*******************************************************
Barry Margolin
>In article <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99>, ken...@io.org (David
>Calculaters were around - HP's first extremely pricy models showed up as
>consumer products somewhere in that period, desktop versions were earlier
>(I used them in the late sixties), and the space program would have
>pre-production models available.
I got a Bowmar Brain as a Bar Mitzvah present in 1974. I believe this was
one of the first consumer hand-held calculators. But I'm willing to
believe that NASA was able to get some earlier than that, since they had
bigger budgets than my friends and relatives in those days.
However, all the calculators in those days were either LED, Nixie tube, or
printing. LCD didn't come until the late 70's.
--
Barry Margolin
BBN Planet Corporation, Cambridge, MA
bar...@bbnplanet.com
Phone (617) 873-3126 - Fax (617) 873-5124
DaveHatunen
>> I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>> that I noticed:
>>
>> 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
>Not a recorder - lo-fi tape player. I believe similar things were around -
[...]
> Hi tech types like the astronauts would
>have the latest gadgets. It may be true that the model used in the film
>was achronistic; I didn't pay close attention.
From early summer 1957 to early spring 1958 I was a service technician
in Youngstown Ohio for the Dictaphone Corporation. One of the marvels I
got to see and play with was a handheld dictating machine that used a
cassette tape. Both the machine and the cassette were made of magnesium
to keep the weight down. I was told that the cassette was invented by
Phillips, so I presume it was a magnesium version of today's plastic
cassettes. The device itself was about half again the dimensions of a
walkman (l.c. intentional). It was a remarkable technical achievement
in an era when transistors were still discrete.
[...]
Robert Dempsey - Faraway, So Close
>
> 3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
> off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
> filter.
>
Methinks you are confused. There was no smoking shown in the movie. You could
see their breath in the cold, is that what you are thinking of? Cigs are not
allowed on a space mission because it explosion/fire hazard and they did not
throw them in for drama. They weren't there.
____________________________________________________________________________
Robert C Dempsey (410) 338-1334
STScI-OPUS 3700 San Martin Dr.
Baltimore, MD 21218
Flying is the second greatest thrill there is - landing is first!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim_...@transarc.com
> I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
> that I noticed:
> 3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
> off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
> filter.
I don't remember any such scene. Are you sure that you didn't somehow
mistake the scenes where you can see their breath for smoking?
******************************************************************
Jim Mann jm...@transarc.com
Transarc Corporation
The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 (412) 338-4442
WWW Homepage: http://www.transarc.com/~jmann/Home.html
Andrew E. Stein
>snopes (sno...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: David Kendall (ken...@io.org) wrote:
>
>: > I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>: > that I noticed:
>
>: > 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
>: > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
>
>: So was using a mouse with their on-board computer, but they probably
>: detail.
>
>: - snopes
>
>: -------------------------------
>: My other .sig is a famous quote.
>
>If this is a troll, it isn't a very good one.
It has been a blatant troll from the start, and I have yet to see
a "good one", much less a "very good one".
These are the same kind of people who delighted for hours as kids
with "Hey, pull my finger".
Regards, Andrew
st...@mmd.com
Andrew Boyd
On 10 Jul 1995, David Mears wrote:
(snip)
> I bought an HP-45 calculator during my senior year in high school,
> which would have been 73/74. It's predecessor, the HP-35, which was
> HP's first hand held calculator, had come out about a year before
> that. (I was planning to buy the 35, but the 45 came out just at
> that time so I went for the newer model.) Both of those had LED
> displays, not LCD. It was a few years more before HP switched to
> LCD displays in their calculators.
My dear old Dad had one of these suckers with the red LED display. Holy
rusted metal, Batman! Was it really that long ago? This would have been
- I think - more like 1976-79. The mongrel thing used RPN, too, which I
never seemed to work out at the time, but I do now.
Heck, is this off-topic or what?
Regards, Andrew Boyd
(ab...@pcug.org.au)
Douglas A. Tricarico
|> that I noticed:
|>
|> 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
|>
|> 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
|>
|> off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
|> filter.
|>
|> *always* have a happy ending.
|>
Will someone PLEASE keep this guy from reproducing??
True story, accurate recreation of the time, and try going outside when
it's cold... just once.
Oh, and someone keep this guy away from kids... influence is as bad as
any progeny.
Rich Travsky
>ken...@io.org (David Kendall) wrote:
>> I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>> that I noticed:
>> 3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
>> off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>> filter.
>and breadth condensation, and maybe some sort of smoke was used for
>enhanced effect, but if a cigarette was shown it was probably an
>inadvertant film-making faux pas, with the cigarette used for phony
>breadth condensation supplimentation, since smoking in the capsule would
>have been a definate no-no. Grissom et al just got burned up in a capsule
>the previous year. BTW, wasn't it interesting how old-fashioned all the
>ground-side smoking made the characters seem. Used to be Hollywood showed
>smoking as "up-to-date" - now they use it to illustrate how ancient the
>characters are.
flight. I _think_ that was '67. A year of redesign and soul searching
followed before Apollo 7's earth orbiting flight.
> [...]
Rich
Pathetic Earthlings....hurling your bodies out into the net... - Ming
Barbara Hamel
: Would you rather have had us rewrite history so that you could "enjoy" an
: unhappy ending?
Why not? It's what the industry did with Pocahontus.
ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
Barbara "writing herstory" Hamel
--
Barbara Hamel | The story goes that if you hack the machines
bha...@fas.harvard.edu | and you're caught, you're either expelled
| from Trinity College Dublin or taken on as
| a sys-admin. - Kevin O'Donovan
Rick Hawkins
Andrew E. Stein <st...@mmd.com> wrote:
>It has been a blatant troll from the start, and I have yet to see
>a "good one", much less a "very good one".
>These are the same kind of people who delighted for hours as kids
>with "Hey, pull my finger".
Those who trolled the troller . . . have been trolled . . .
[for the utterly anal-retentive, apologies to monty python]
oh, and i have a list of 100 ftp sites with nude trollups :)
--
R E HAWKINS
rhaw...@iastate.edu
Brian Eirik Coe
Barbara Hamel <bha...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>Sean C. Cunningham (poc...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: Would you rather have had us rewrite history so that you could "enjoy" an
>: unhappy ending?
>
>Why not? It's what the industry did with Pocahontus.
And that makes it right? I have the feeling that Disney just made life
more difficult for history teachers by altering the true history.
However, there is a difference. Apollo 13 was tring to tell the true
story in as much detail as possible. The director and actors all wanted
as realistic a movie as possible.
Disney was going for a cutesy, feel-good movie. A musical that fit in
with the rest of the Disney movie cataloug.
Apollo 13 should be praised with trying to tell the story as it was
originally played out. Few movies make this attempt, or succeed.
>
>ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
I guess then I should discount the actions of Cathrine the Great, Queen
Elizabeth, Madam Curie, Joan of Arc and other great women I leaned about
in my "His Story" classes (taught by men, oddly)
>Barbara "writing herstory" Hamel
--
Michael Crawford
: >*always* have a happy ending.
I also thought it was obvious how it'd turn out, since it was a TRUE STORY.
ps. They did have the small tape recorder...I wondered when I saw the movie
but saw one in a documentary about the mission...
--
-------------------
Michael A. Crawford
mac...@nr.infi.net
Daniel Drumm
: David Kendall (ken...@io.org) wrote:
: > I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
: > that I noticed:
: > 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
: > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
: So was using a mouse with their on-board computer, but they probably
: didn't want to confuse modern-day audiences with obscure technical
: detail.
: - snopes
: -------------------------------
: My other .sig is a famous quote.
I haven't seen the movie. Did the really use a mouse?
If this is a troll, it isn't a very good one.
--
-
Daniel Glenn Drumm CK ID: -xx-
dr...@tezcat.com
Finger for PGP Public Key "The past is a finite resource."
http://www.tezcat.com/~drmm -Douglas Coupland
Gardner S Trask
>In article <3tuamr$b...@decaxp.harvard.edu>,
>>Why not? It's what the industry did with Pocahontus.
>And that makes it right? I have the feeling that Disney just made life
>more difficult for history teachers by altering the true history.
And I suppose you would bitch out Longfellow for his "version" of the
Midnight Ride of Paul Revere, or the painter who did "Washington crossing
the Deleware", or School House Rock for convincing a generation of
Americans that the Preamble to the Constitution should be SUNG!!!!!
Hop off that high hobby horse. Very few history teachers teach "true"
history. Mostly they teach white-bread, politically correct pasterized, "we
are the victors and rightous for it", the ends-justify-the means horse hooey.
We are Disney. We made it up. So sue us.
Gard "Charter member of the flat earth society" Trask
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Gardner S. Trask III MPower the people tr...@world.std.com
alt.culture.gard-trask
"First .cultured man on the Internet"
Jeffrey Kaplan
>3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
>off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>filter.
They weren't smoking. It was so cold that was their own breath we
were seeing. I live in the Snow Belt, so seeing one's breath condence
when it's cold is common.
>BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
>*always* have a happy ending.
Uhh... That was a TRUE story. I knew how it would end because it
really did happen that way. (duh!)
ttul8r,
Jeffrey Kaplan "Think of it as evolution in action."
Internet Email: <gor...@tiac.net> Fidonet Netmail: <1:101/245>
PGP Key available at: <http://www.tiac.net/users/gordol>
Tom Salyers
In a previous article, bha...@fas.harvard.edu (Barbara Hamel) says:
>ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
>Barbara "writing herstory" Hamel
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's bullshit. The (Greek, I
believe) root word that "history" comes from has absolutely nothing to do with
gender.
--
Tom Salyers "Now is the Windows of our disk contents
IRCnick: Aqualung made glorious SimEarth by this Sun of Zork."
Denver, CO ---Richard v3.0
Alan Barclay
Yep, January 27, 1967 for the Apollo 1 fire, compared to April 11 to 17, 1970
for 13.
Unknown
>==========LAL, 7/10/95==========
>I don't recall cigarettes? Lots of "vapor" to indicate freezing conditions
>and breadth condensation, and maybe some sort of smoke was used for
>enhanced effect, but if a cigarette was shown it was probably an
>inadvertant film-making faux pas, with the cigarette used for phony
>have been a definate no-no. Grissom et al just got burned up in a capsule
>the previous year. BTW, wasn't it interesting how old-fashioned all the
>smoking as "up-to-date" - now they use it to illustrate how ancient the
>characters are.
>
>test, I would have taken notes.
>--
>Standard disclaimers apply. Nobody here ever agrees with me on anything.
>
That's not true. I think you're absolutely right!
John Druitt
"A mind is like a parachute - it only works when its open."
Mark Eaton
(Barbara Hamel) wrote:
>
> ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
>
Really? Thats a fact?
Alan Barclay
DW <wede...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99> ken...@io.org (David
>Kendall) writes:
>>
>>I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few
>errors
>>that I noticed:
>>
>
>"hey Ron, those weren't around then.."
From Apollo 13 (Jim Lovell's book, previously titled Lost Moon,
and rereleased due to the film), page 283 'Among the few personal
items the crew had brought aboard was a small tape player and a
handful of cassettes containing songs chosen by the astronauts.
... the opening chords of "The Age of Aquarius", one of the first
songs the astronauts had requested when they made up their
playlist.'
Brian Eirik Coe
Gardner S Trask <tr...@world.std.com> wrote:
>bc...@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu (Brian Eirik Coe) writes:
>
>>In article <3tuamr$b...@decaxp.harvard.edu>,
>
>>>Why not? It's what the industry did with Pocahontus.
>
>>And that makes it right? I have the feeling that Disney just made life
>>more difficult for history teachers by altering the true history.
>
>
>And I suppose you would bitch out Longfellow for his "version" of the
>Midnight Ride of Paul Revere, or the painter who did "Washington crossing
>the Deleware", or School House Rock for convincing a generation of
>Americans that the Preamble to the Constitution should be SUNG!!!!!
I guess this is my fault, since I neglected to put a couple sentences
in. I don't think that it is intrinsically wrong for Disney to have
altered the original history. In movies, books, plays and musicals it
happens all the time. I happen to beleive, however, that altering the
story to fit the popular perception is not a neccesity. In cases like
Apollo 13, Gettysburg and other movies, the original material is highly
dramatic without adding uneccisary story, or altering the
beginning/middle/ending. People should be VERY careful about getting
their facts from entertainment movies. (That includes films like Apollo
13, which at least are unable to show the full story, no matter how
accuarte they are)
Just a side note, I was taught that Revere was one of at least three
riders and he made it the least far before his capture, and that
Washington would have fallen out of his boat had he stood. As for
singing the Constitution, it has a nice mix, but I can't dance to it.
>
>Hop off that high hobby horse. Very few history teachers teach "true"
>history. Mostly they teach white-bread, politically correct pasterized, "we
>are the victors and rightous for it", the ends-justify-the means horse hooey.
True, the victors invariably write the history. It has been my personal
expericence, however, that teachers of history have made an effort to go
beyond the textbook and see the tradgey of our history. Of everyones
history. Perhaps others have not been so lucky.
Stevens R. Miller
>ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
Actual fact: "History" is from the Middle English, "historie," from the Latin,
"historia," from the Greek, "histori'a," meaning, "learning or knowing by
inquiry."
Try it, Barbara.
--
Stevens R. Miller http://www.interport.net/~lex/
Kevin D. Quitt
>I guess this is my fault, since I neglected to put a couple sentences
>in. I don't think that it is intrinsically wrong for Disney to have
>altered the original history. In movies, books, plays and musicals it
>happens all the time. I happen to beleive, however, that altering the
>story to fit the popular perception is not a neccesity. In cases like
>Apollo 13, Gettysburg and other movies, the original material is highly
>dramatic without adding uneccisary story, or altering the
>beginning/middle/ending. People should be VERY careful about getting
>their facts from entertainment movies. (That includes films like Apollo
>13, which at least are unable to show the full story, no matter how
>accuarte they are)
It is worth noting that John Smith's story of being saved is almost
certainly false, even though he told the story himself. Another explorer
(in Flordia) WAS saved by an Indian girl, and ol' JS probably thought
it just sounded good.
--
#include <standard.disclaimer>
_
Kevin D Quitt USA 91351-4454 96.37% of all statistics are made up
Kevin D. Quitt
>Of course there was that scene with all of those engineers using those
>two sticks with numbers on them which slid back and forth to perform
>calculations. Rumor has it that those items were called 'slide rules'
>and used before calculators to do math. But it's just a rumor. ;)
Well, really three sticks. And the best ones were two circles. (And
*is* there a hypehn in anal-retentive?)
Kelly Fitzpatrick
: In article <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99> ken...@io.org (David Kendall) writes:
: >From: ken...@io.org (David Kendall)
: >Subject: Smoking on Apollo 13
: >Date: 10 Jul 1995 14:04:47 GMT
: BOOM! Smoking would probably have done a lot more in there than jam up the
: CO2 filter, as evidenced by what a single spark did to Apollo 1. They
: were not smoking either on the actual flight or in the movie; they were
: breathing. Water vapor exhaled at 35 degrees farenheit may look like
: smoke.
KF>>> Naaah! The cabin atmosphere was *not* pure o2. It was air. The near
fatal explosion took place inside the o2 *tank*.
: >BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
: >*always* have a happy ending.
KF>>> Yeah, and true, historically accurate stories are pretty predictable,
too. *DUH*!
--
Kelly Fitzpatrick
kmf...@kuentos.guam.net
"eschew obfuscation"
damage INCORPORATED
>BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
>*always* have a happy ending.
>
>
Seen any INDEPENDENT american films recently? Pulp Fiction &
Reservoir Dogs stand out as successful, independent and
WITHOUTSOPPYENDINGS.
][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][
"The mutilation of the human race, is set on course. Protest and survive. It's up
to us, to change the couse" -=/aNTHRaX | PRoTeST aND SuRViVE\=-
][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][
Tom Salyers
In a previous article, ma...@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) says:
>In article <3tuamr$b...@decaxp.harvard.edu>, bha...@fas.harvard.edu
>(Barbara Hamel) wrote:
>>
>> ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
>
>Really? Thats a fact?
No.
Jim_...@transarc.com
>ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
Perhaps they should start teaching more about the roots of words at
Harvard. "History" is from the Greek "historia," meaning inquiry.
APIC...@aba.com
While smoking was common during the 60's and 70's, as depicted in
Mission Control, NASA would never allow smoking in the LEM or the
Command Module. It was vapor.
Very early and expensive versions of tape players and calculators
were around in 1970. Some calculators cost around $400.00. NASA
could afford them but most likely you and I could not.
American movies always have happy endings? Maybe so but in this
case the movie is based on actual events. Check out documentaries of
that time or Jim Lovell's novel "Lost Moon".
Even though I knew the story, I remember watching it on TV, I thought
it was a great movie.
Ben Huset
>
>Even though I knew the story, I remember watching it on TV, I thought
>it was a great movie.
>
Yes, even though EVERYBODY in the audience knows before hand the ending
to all the Shakespeare plays they still go to see them.
Harry MF Teasley
>Actual fact: "History" is from the Middle English, "historie," from the Latin,
>"historia," from the Greek, "histori'a," meaning, "learning or knowing by
>inquiry."
>Try it, Barbara.
Actual fact: "Barbara" comes from the French "barbarie," itself a mutation
of the Italian "barbarino," which, ironically, came from the French
"bartendre," which comes from the Norwegian "lutefisk," and means, "blonde
bimbette who could skewer you without batting an eye."
Harry "Hack Etymologist" Teasley
--
"It's an example of my new maturity." -David Levy
Chris Fishel
> In article <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99>, ken...@io.org (David Kendall) writes:
> > I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
> > that I noticed:
> >
> > off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
> > filter.
>
> it's cold... just once.
So you're saying that the scenes of Jim Lovell et al smoking had
them stepping outside of the capsule for a puff? I never would've
thought that nicotine fiends that desperate for a fix could possibly
be in good enough shape to pass the astronauts' physical. Still, I
guess that explains why they weren't worrying about the CO2 filters
*inside* the capsule jamming. So how accurate were their depictions
of the scenes outside of the capsule? Did they limit the astronauts'
time outside to no more than 10 minutes, the maximum time before they'd
have exploded (since they would've had their helmets off to smoke)? Did
they include the dull roar of distant explosions on the sun echoing
through the luminous ether of space?
Chris "In space, no one can hear you troll" Fishel
Mike Czaplinski
>
> snopes (sno...@netcom.com) wrote:
> : David Kendall (ken...@io.org) wrote:
>
> : > that I noticed:
>
> : > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
>
> : So was using a mouse with their on-board computer, but they probably
> : didn't want to confuse modern-day audiences with obscure technical
> : detail.
>
> : - snopes
>
> : -------------------------------
> : My other .sig is a famous quote.
>
> I haven't seen the movie. Did the really use a mouse?
> If this is a troll, it isn't a very good one.
snopes: How can you sleep at night?
Mike "Yes, Daniel, it was a troll..." Czaplinski
mike.cz...@washingtondc.attgis.com
Brian Leibowitz
Rick Hawkins <rhaw...@iastate.edu> wrote:
...
>
>[for the utterly anal-retentive, apologies to monty python]
>
Rick Hawkins
And you know where you can put the hyphen to find out, don't you? :)
but still rofl
Michael Crawford
: Actual fact: "Barbara" comes from the French "barbarie," itself a mutation
: of the Italian "barbarino," which, ironically, came from the French
: "bartendre," which comes from the Norwegian "lutefisk," and means, "blonde
: bimbette who could skewer you without batting an eye."
Haha! But you only need to trace it as far as "Barbarino" to connect it to
John Travolta. Maybe she just needs a royale with cheese.
Rob Leitman
Mark Eaton <ma...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>In article <3tuamr$b...@decaxp.harvard.edu>, bha...@fas.harvard.edu
>
>> ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
>
Yes. You can look it up on rec.history.moderated.
Rob Leitman
Michael Crawford
: In a previous article, bha...@fas.harvard.edu (Barbara Hamel) says:
: >ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
: >Barbara "writing herstory" Hamel
: Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's bullshit. The (Greek, I
: believe) root word that "history" comes from has absolutely nothing to do with
: gender.
Thank you for so concisely summing up my beliefs. Barbara "herstory" Hamel
needs to seek therapy for her bitterness.
snopes
>> I haven't seen the movie. Did the really use a mouse?
>> If this is a troll, it isn't a very good one.
> snopes: How can you sleep at night?
This isn't so outrageous a troll. If you watch carefully during the
Mission Control scenes (the ones filmed at the real Mission Control, not
on the movie set), you can spot some modern-day mouse-driven computers
(such as Digital AXP Workstations).
- snopes
M. Wes Breazeale
: >BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
: >*always* have a happy ending.
Hmmm, lets see, why would they want to make the ending turn out the way
it did?
Perhaps, and this is just a guess, but perhaps it was because THAT WAS
THE WAY IT REALLY HAPPENED!!! The movie is fact based, not fictional.
--
Wes Breazeale
Lewis & Clark College
brea...@lclark.edu
Alan Braggins
> > I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
> > that I noticed:
>
> > 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
> > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
>
Some real ones - (at least I assume they are - I haven't seen the film)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, folks, just what you've been waiting for!
Live! from the Johnson Space Center, the
Top Ten TECHNICAL ERRORS/ANACHRONISMS in the movie "Apollo 13"
- compiled by a bunch of genuine NASA dweebs who actually noticed these
things.
(Reading this list is guaranteed not to give the story away, but reading this
next sentence will: They make it back safely.)
=========================================================
10. The NASA "worm" logo appears on a glass door. The logo was not
developed until 1976.
9. One engineer checks an astronaut's addition using a slide rule. Slide
rules are not used for addition.
8. Jim Lovell's license plate is new.
7. The astronauts point out the Sea of Tranquility while on the dark side of
the moon. It is on the other side.
6. A technician at the cape is wearing a Rockwell International logo on his
coveralls. The Apollo capsule was built by North American, which did not
become Rockwell International until after the Apollo program.
5. The gantry arms for the Saturn V are released in unison, not one at a
time.
4. During entry, the spacecraft is shown hurling directly at the earth.
At that angle, it would punch a brief but fiery hole through the atmosphere.
It should be aiming towards the horizon.
3. The paint pattern on the Saturn V is for the test configuration, not the
launch configuration.
2. The astronauts look at their intended landing site while on the dark
side of the moon. It is a good thing they didn't land - no communications
with Earth, it's dark and very cold.
AND THE NUMBER ONE TECHNICAL ERROR/ANACHRONISM in APOLLO 13 is:
1. In space, from outside the capsule, propulsion jets do not make any noise.
- Christopher Land
Notes: 1) Any errors on this list are the responsibility of the reader. If
you point them out we may sue, so watch it. 2) Heretofore notwithstanding
and nevertheless hereby contraindicating the previous sentence, any additions
and corrections should be passed back to me and I promise to care. Deeply.
Hank Driskill
: Did anyone else notice that the priest, played by Ron Howard's father,
: was wearing a gold wedding band on his left ring finger? The priest is
: in the scene where Marilyn and the kids are watching TV toward the end.
: (I won't specify what they are watching, as I don't want to spoil the
: movie for those who have somehow managed to avoid hearing what happens.)
If you check out the book, you'll find that the "priest" was an
Episcopal minister...
Hank.
--
==============================================================================
Hank Driskill dris...@d2.com
Digital Domain (310) 314-2997
__-----_________________{]__________________________________________________
{&&&&&&&#%%&#%&%&%&%&%#%&|]__________________________________________________\
{]
Fighting to survive, in a world with the darkest powers...
==============================================================================
Chris Sonnack
>
>> I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>> that I noticed:
>>
>> 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
(Me suspect troll, but am hungry for bait...)
PBS aired a 90-minute documentary about Apollo 13 last night, and I was
amazed at how //close// the movie was to the actual event. In the PBS
show was the same scene with the little tape recorder which, in the real
event, had "the theme from 2001" (not SPIRIT IN THE SKY as in the film).
And that tape deck looked just the same as in the film.
And Gene Kranz looks a //lot// like Ed Harris (amazingly so).
(And Apollo 13 gets my vote for best film of the year, hands down!)
--
Chris Sonnack | 3M/Information Technology/Engineering Info Svcs
cjso...@mmm.com | 3M Center, Bld 42-6E-01, St.Paul, MN, 55144-1000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it."
Douglas A. Tricarico
If it was NOT a troll, Kendall is a moron. If it was, he's an a**hole.
Tough choice, eh, bud?
Personally I prefer we all play nice. But I'm willling to throw down, too.
In article <DBM7...@ranger.daytonoh.attgis.com>, Mike Czaplinski <mike.cz...@washingtondc.attgis.com> writes:
|> dr...@tezcat.com (Daniel Drumm) wrote:
|> >
|> > snopes (sno...@netcom.com) wrote:
|> > : David Kendall (ken...@io.org) wrote:
|> >
|> > : > I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
|> > : > that I noticed:
|> >
|> > : > 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
|> > : > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
|> >
|> > : So was using a mouse with their on-board computer, but they probably
|> > : didn't want to confuse modern-day audiences with obscure technical
|> > : detail.
|> >
|> > : - snopes
|> >
|> > : -------------------------------
|> > : My other .sig is a famous quote.
|> >
|> > I haven't seen the movie. Did the really use a mouse?
|> > If this is a troll, it isn't a very good one.
|>
|> snopes: How can you sleep at night?
|>
Matthew Crosby
Charles Shannon Hendrix <shen...@widomaker.com> wrote:
>b...@netcom.com (Brian Leibowitz) writes:
>
>>In article <3tuhcu$p...@news.iastate.edu>,
>>Rick Hawkins <rhaw...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>[for the utterly anal-retentive, apologies to monty python]
>>>
>>Is there a hyphen in "anal-retentive" ?
>What the heck do you think that is? :-)
>--
>csh
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>shen...@escape.widomaker.com | Linux 1.2.8 / BSD 2.0 / Anything fun
^^^^^^^
I presume you mean NetBSD or FreeBSD or BSDI 2.0 (no idea what the current
versions for these are). BSD 2.0 ran on the PDP-11, and if you where into
that you would probably be up to BSD 2.11 (Based on BSD 4.3)
--
Matthew Crosby cro...@cs.colorado.edu
Disclaimer: It was another country, and besides, the wench is dead.
snopes
>> Why not? It's what the industry did with Pocahontas.
> And that makes it right? I have the feeling that Disney just made life
> more difficult for history teachers by altering the true history.
Yes, it's right, because Disney was going to be criticized no matter which
way they chose to end the film. When Disney first came out with the
"Davy Crockett" series, they received plenty of irate letters from viewers
who didn't like the writers' choice of an ending (i.e., killing Davy off
at the Alamo).
- snopes
Timothy D. Shoppa
>Did anyone else notice that the priest, played by Ron Howard's father,
>was wearing a gold wedding band on his left ring finger?
Are you sure? I don't remember seeing Andy Griffith in this movie.
grea...@corp.hp.com
> >ObFact: "History" is man-talk for "his story."
> Actual fact: "History" is from the Middle English, "historie," from the Latin,
> "historia," from the Greek, "histori'a," meaning, "learning or knowing by
> inquiry."
> Try it, Barbara.
Nice catch, Babs - and now I feel like a character on Tiny Toons. (Although I
have met a few folks who tried to convince me that it's the truth).
Rob "although I think I could go for the term herstory" Greanias
Philip Chien
ken...@io.org writes:
>I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>that I noticed:
>
>1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
>
>2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
>
>off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>filter.
>
movies
>*always* have a happy ending.
Please tell me this was a troll. Please tell me this was a troll.
In case anybody has any doubts.
1. No. They had handheld tape recorders back then. Really. Honest.
2. What LCD calculator? The computer consoles used various lit-up
displays which may have superficially *appeared* to be calculator
displays, but were actually very good duplicates of the actual command
and lunar module computers - in fact at least one was an actual DSKY
display which flew aboard the Apollo 13 mission!
Of course there was that scene with all of those engineers using those
two sticks with numbers on them which slid back and forth to perform
calculations. Rumor has it that those items were called 'slide rules'
and used before calculators to do math. But it's just a rumor. ;)
3. Sorry - no smoking in space. That was 'steam' (more scientifically
water vapor) because the sets were refrigerated to simulate the
temperature and condition of the lunar module on the way back to Earth.
But the smoking in Mission Control was accurate - a very high percentage
of flight controllers smoked.
And yeah, the movie did sort of have a happy ending. Even if one of the
byproducts of the emergency in space was the cancellation of the Apollo
18 and 19 missions.
Somebody else mentioned in this thread the change of atmospheres in the
spacecraft after the Apollo 1 fire. For the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo
1 spacecraft the crew cabins were pressurized to about 17 psi of pure
oxygen before launch. The higher than atmopsheric pressure kept
contamination outside the spacecraft. After launch the pressure bled
down to 5 psi pure oxygen, the atmosphere in orbit. After Apollo 1 the
prelaunch atmosphere was changed to an oxygen-nitrogen mix, but still
above ambient pressure. But once in orbit the Apollo spacecraft used a
pure oxygen 5 psi atmosphere. It would have been too expensive to modify
the spacecraft, environmental systems, structure, and spacesuits to
accomodate a multi-gas atmosphere while still retaining the goal of
beating the Soviets to the moon.
The space shuttle uses a 21% oxygen 79% nitrogen 14.7 psi atmosphere,
except astronauts on spacewalks who breathe 5 psi pure oxygen.
And the word "history" is from the ancient greek author Herodotus in the
5th century BC. His book "History" describes the Greek Persian wars and
was the first organized documentation of historic events. The word
"historiai" is from the Greek word for inquiries.
And for most of recorded history the accepted History has been written by
those in power, usually white males. Hence the complaints about
"History" vs. "Herstory".
Philip Chien, Earth News - space writer and consultant PCH...@IDS.NET
__ __^__ __________
| \ +---/ \---+ (=========
|____\___________ +---\_____/---+ //
>____)| | \__ \ \______//___
>/ |________| \ [ _____\
>|____________________\ \_______/
Roger, go at throttle up CHR$(32) the final frontier
Andrea Louise Coutu
in the scene where Marilyn and the kids are watching TV toward the end.
(I won't specify what they are watching, as I don't want to spoil the
movie for those who have somehow managed to avoid hearing what happens.)
--
Andrea Coutu | "If at first you don't succeed...
co...@sfu.ca | apply for a Canada Council Grant."
Simon Fraser University | - W.P. Kinsella
Charles Shannon Hendrix
>In article <3tuhcu$p...@news.iastate.edu>,
>Rick Hawkins <rhaw...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>...
>>
>>[for the utterly anal-retentive, apologies to monty python]
>>
>Is there a hyphen in "anal-retentive" ?
^
What the heck do you think that is? :-)
--
csh
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
shen...@escape.widomaker.com | Linux 1.2.8 / BSD 2.0 / Anything fun
http://www.widomaker.com/~shendrix | <<<< UNDER CONSTRUCTION >>>
David H. Kime
>
> >>Why not? It's what the industry did with Pocahontus.
someone else wrote:
> >And that makes it right? I have the feeling that Disney just made life
> >more difficult for history teachers by altering the true history.
Well, maybe it would help if we actually knew the real history. From what
I have read, our most complete source is John Smith's account which was
written on his death bed. Modern historians believe that other accounts
and archaeological evidence shows that much of what Smith wrote is false,
so it is impossible to tell what parts are true.
If historians can't truly tell us what happened, then the story is legend
not history. Disney has adapted legends for years. Some for the better,
some for the worse. Disney gets in trouble with Pocahontas because this
particular legend is closer to history than most legends. Children do
learn about John Smith in school. I think Disney would have been better
off making a movie about a generic british adventurer who meets a generic
native princess, then they could have told any story they wanted without
any problems. Or, if they wanted to do a native princess story, why not
choose the Lewis & Clark expedition. You could cover many of the same
European vs. Native issues, the ecological issues, the impressive vistas
would have been real (instead of showing 1000 foot high cliffs in VA's
tidewater), and the actual history is better known.
--
"You do not know me, human. I am evil. That means I'm lonely. I'm just
the evil, lonely ... drummer for Pearl Jam"
--Zorak from Space Ghost Coast to Coast
David H. Kime
dh...@cornell.edu
ha...@ansoft.com
>snopes (sno...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: David Kendall (ken...@io.org) wrote:
>
>: > that I noticed:
>
>: > 1. The hand-held tape recorder was a little ahead of its time.
>: > 2. Ditto for the LCD calculator.
>
>: didn't want to confuse modern-day audiences with obscure technical
>: detail.
>
>: - snopes
>
>: -------------------------------
>: My other .sig is a famous quote.
>
>I haven't seen the movie. Did the really use a mouse?
>If this is a troll, it isn't a very good one.
>
>
>-
>Daniel Glenn Drumm CK ID: -xx-
>dr...@tezcat.com
>Finger for PGP Public Key "The past is a finite resource."
>http://www.tezcat.com/~drmm -Douglas Coupland
Now i'm curious about the mouse too -- time to go see it again. The other guy
is off on thinking that small recorders and calculaters didn't exist though...
those are factually possible.
DaveHatunen
M. Wes Breazeale <brea...@sun.lclark.edu> wrote:
>: In article <kendall-1007...@47.169.8.99>, ken...@io.org (David Kendall) says:
>: >*always* have a happy ending.
>Hmmm, lets see, why would they want to make the ending turn out the way
>it did?
>
>Perhaps, and this is just a guess, but perhaps it was because THAT WAS
>THE WAY IT REALLY HAPPENED!!!
Wow. What a concept! Is this something new for Hollywood?
I took the seven-year old to see "Pocahantas" over the weekend. Glad
to know Hollywood uses "THE WAY IT REALLY HAPPENED" nowadays. Poor
Pocahantas. Guess she stayed an old maid. Sure would like to know where
that talking tree is, though.
>The movie is fact based, not fictional.
So was "Pocahantas".
So was the first, William Bendix, "Babe Ruth Story".
So was....
Oh well.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California: almost San Francisco *
* but with parking and lower car insurance rates *
*******************************************************
Daniel Kian Mc Kiernan
> Is there a hyphen in "anal-retentive" ?
I'm trying to get at an answer to that question. I've been working
on identifying any and all dictionaries that include "anal
retentive" or "anal-retentive". (There's no need to include "or both
here" in that the English "or" may be inclusive if not coordinated
with "either", and I can show you some references on that, if need
be.) Anyway, I'm hoping to this this list assembled, and then to
create a database which of course will include which form or forms
were used, the date of assembly of the dictionary, the dates of
various print-runs, the place of publication, statistics on
distribution, and information on the editors. In this last
category, one naturally thinks of things such as the age and sex of
the editors, and there i$
rally!#$ orking on more than onfgh
ca...@netcom.com
: In article <coutu.8...@sfu.ca>, co...@malibu.sfu.ca (Andrea Louise Coutu) writes...
: >Did anyone else notice that the priest, played by Ron Howard's father,
: Are you sure? I don't remember seeing Andy Griffith in this movie.
: Tim. (sho...@altair.krl.caltech.edu)
Actually, I believe that Jim Lovell is an Episcopalian, and Episcopal
priests do marry.
--
David Kendall
utr...@dsdprod.meaddata.com (Douglas A. Tricarico) wrote:
> Trolling. Interesting.
>
> If it was NOT a troll, Kendall is a moron. If it was, he's an a**hole.
> Tough choice, eh, bud?
>
> Personally I prefer we all play nice. But I'm willling to throw down, too.
I think you're mean. Why do you have to call me names just because I made
a mistake and I thought those tape recorders were not around back then in
1969. It's not fair. You are supposed to encourage young people to use
computers. I am only 12. The people on this BBS are not very friendly.
--
David Kendall
ken...@io.org
Kristin & Tom
bc...@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu (Brian Eirik Coe) wrote:
> A minor point of clarification. The atmosphere of the Apollo spacecraft
> was changed following Apollo 1. Up to that time, all of the spacecraft
> had used pressurized oxygen, the Mercurys and Geminis. After that, when
> they finnaly realized that it was a bomb, a much less explosive
> combination was used.
>
> But they still did not smoke in the capsule. Even if it wasn't a
> consideration for the air quality, disposing of tiny flying ash would
> have probebly been impossible.
>
>
A further clarification: the breathing gases WERE changed after the Apollo
1 fire. ON THE LAUNCHPAD, the cabin had a mixed gas environment at a near
sea level pressure, but this transitioned to a pure oxygen environment @
4-5 psi once they were in space, which simplifies spacewalking and negates
the need to bring along another breathing gas (nitrogen. On the shuttle,
which uses oxygen/nitrogen @ 14psi, an astronaut has to bre-breathe pure
oxygen (from a mask) for HOURS prior to spacewalking, to wash all the
nitrogen from his body in order to avoid the bends in a 3.5 psi
pure-oxygen spacesuit.
Colin Rosenthal
: 2. The astronauts look at their intended landing site while on the dark
: side of the moon. It is a good thing they didn't land - no communications
: with Earth, it's dark and very cold.
There is no dark side of the moon. There is a far side, but it's no
darker or colder than the near side.
--
--Colin Rosenthal | ``Don't smell the flowers -
--rose...@obs.aau.dk | They're an evil drug -
--http://bigcat.obs.aau.dk/~rosentha | To make you lose your mind''-
--Aarhus University, Denmark | Ronnie James Dio, 1983 -
DaveHatunen
>Some real ones - (at least I assume they are - I haven't seen the film)
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Well, folks, just what you've been waiting for!
>
>Live! from the Johnson Space Center, the
>
>Top Ten TECHNICAL ERRORS/ANACHRONISMS in the movie "Apollo 13"
>
>- compiled by a bunch of genuine NASA dweebs who actually noticed these
>things.
>
>(Reading this list is guaranteed not to give the story away, but reading this
>next sentence will: They make it back safely.)
>
>=========================================================
[...]
>8. Jim Lovell's license plate is new.
New 1970 or new 1995?
>7. The astronauts point out the Sea of Tranquility while on the dark side of
>the moon. It is on the other side.
Um. Um. "The dark side of the moon"???? "Other side"??? That does it.
This can't be from NASA dweebs, unless they're trolling. It is
perfectly possible for the Sea of Tranquility to be on the dark side of
the moon. In fact, about once a month it is on the dark side of the
moon.
[...]
>5. The gantry arms for the Saturn V are released in unison, not one at a
>time.
I thought it was real historic footage for the liftoff itself.
[...]
>3. The paint pattern on the Saturn V is for the test configuration, not the
>launch configuration.
Wrong historical footage?
>2. The astronauts look at their intended landing site while on the dark
>side of the moon. It is a good thing they didn't land - no communications
>with Earth, it's dark and very cold.
Bullshit. Communications with the earth is quite possible from the dark
side of the moon when the side facing the Earth is the dark side.
Given the fact that light can't transmit when it's cold, of course it's
dark.
>AND THE NUMBER ONE TECHNICAL ERROR/ANACHRONISM in APOLLO 13 is:
>
>1. In space, from outside the capsule, propulsion jets do not make any noise.
How do you know? How does anyone know? After all, even someone on an EVA is
inside a space suit and probably couldn't hear the jets.
Bruce Tindall
>Actually, I believe that Jim Lovell is an Episcopalian, and Episcopal
>priests do marry.
And (though this is irrelevant to the movie) it's even possible
to be married and to be a Roman Catholic priest under certain
circumstances, as we concluded on AFU a while back (e.g. married
Episcopal priest converts to Catholicism). The subject of married
RC priests was treated in an article in TIME magazine sometime in
the past three years or so, too.
David Kendall
(Cindy Kandolf) wrote:
[...]
>
> -Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
> ci...@nvg.unit.no Trondheim, Norway
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A cow orker told me that in Trondheim, Norway, y'all hold an annual folk
festival where people hit old women on the head. He said it's called the
"Trondheim Hammer Dance". Is this true?
--
David Kendall
ken...@io.org
Brian Eirik Coe
DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <7z20vvu...@setanta.setanta.demon.co.uk>,
>
>>5. The gantry arms for the Saturn V are released in unison, not one at a
>>time.
>I thought it was real historic footage for the liftoff itself.
>>launch configuration.
>Wrong historical footage?
Uh, no. The producers of the movie have made the point to say that there
was not a single frame of NASA stock footage used. The only stock
footage used in the film was the newscasts and Armstrongs first steps on
the moon.
>
>>2. The astronauts look at their intended landing site while on the dark
>>side of the moon. It is a good thing they didn't land - no communications
>>with Earth, it's dark and very cold.
>
>Bullshit. Communications with the earth is quite possible from the dark
>side of the moon when the side facing the Earth is the dark side.
>
>Given the fact that light can't transmit when it's cold, of course it's
>dark.
Light can't transmit in the cold?? The reason there in a dark side of
the moon has nothing to do with the temp, but the fact that the moon is
in the way....
>>1. In space, from outside the capsule, propulsion jets do not make any noise.
>
>How do you know? How does anyone know? After all, even someone on an EVA is
>inside a space suit and probably couldn't hear the jets.
This is known because the method of sound transmission is well known.
You can even simulate it on Earth. You can evacuate the air from a
container and run a tape player. If the vacum is complete, you won't
here a thing.
--
Brian Eirik Coe * "God himself couldn't sink this ship!"
Optometrist-in-Training * --White Star Line employee at launch of Titanic
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" -The Brain, Animaniacs
"It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent." -Q, ST:TNG
Articulate Mandible
>It is worth noting that John Smith's story of being saved is almost
>certainly false, even though he told the story himself. Another explorer
>(in Flordia) WAS saved by an Indian girl, and ol' JS probably thought
>it just sounded good.
Last week I heard a report on Enpiyar's "All Things Considered" that
discussed the fillum's debut in Central Park, Noo Yawk. One
segment of the report had an interview with a folklorist/mythologist
who said that the saving of Smith may have been a ceremony in which
Pocahontas' (not her real name, by the way) tribe adopted Smith. She
said that his recounting of the event had all the markings of an
acceptable publishable version of such a ceremony.
I wish I could remember the details - I was on the road again, and
didn't dare try to write down the pertinent poop while driving, talking
on a cell phone, applying my makeup, eating a burrito, and holding
a covered, scalding cup of coffee between my thighs. I hope you'll
forgive me.
--
Artie the Hinged Jaw
Stop Casting Porosity
rdou...@hoasys.isd1.tafensw.edu.au
> And lo, ken...@io.org (David Kendall) spake thusly:
>
>>3. The astronauts smoking cigarettes while they were freezing their butts
>>off on the return journey. This would *really* have jammed up the CO2
>>filter.
>
> were seeing. I live in the Snow Belt, so seeing one's breath condence
> when it's cold is common.
>
>>BTW, I thought it was obvious how it would turn out, since American movies
>>*always* have a happy ending.
>
> really did happen that way. (duh!)
>
> ttul8r,
> Jeffrey Kaplan "Think of it as evolution in action."
This one gets my vote as Catch of the Month. What a whopper!
Roger
=====
Articulate Mandible
>Philip Chien <Pch...@ids.net> wrote:
>>Of course there was that scene with all of those engineers using those
>>two sticks with numbers on them which slid back and forth to perform
>>calculations. Rumor has it that those items were called 'slide rules'
>>and used before calculators to do math. But it's just a rumor. ;)
>Well, really three sticks. And the best ones were two circles. (And
>*is* there a hypehn in anal-retentive?)
Agreed. I sorely miss my circular Pickett. Lost the booger in a move
some fifteen or twenty years ago, I did. I remember when four function
calculators got small enough to fit in a briefcase, days when I could
outcalculate keyboard jocks to four significant figs.
Dave Palmer
There is no dark side of the moon.
"... it's all dark, really."
"you have to eat your meat! you can't have any pudding if you don't
eat your meat!"
--dave
--
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom."
William Blake
"Without full satiation of the senses, we are pathetic objects!"
Barrington J. Bayley
Robert Alpert
: Now i'm curious about the mouse too -- time to go see it again. The other guy
: is off on thinking that small recorders and calculaters didn't exist though...
: those are factually possible.
There was a program on Apollo 13 on PBS recently with original footage
from the mission. The pocket tape recorder used in the movie looks
pretty much like the real thing. (The music played in the movie was
different, though.)
You whippersnappers who were not alive (or old enough to be aware) in
1970 might be surprised to discover that it was was not the stone age,
and there were many electronic products that were transistorized.
--
Bob Alpert
alp...@netaxs.com
Timothy D. Shoppa
>In article <hatunenD...@netcom.com>,
>DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>In article <7z20vvu...@setanta.setanta.demon.co.uk>,
>>
>>>5. The gantry arms for the Saturn V are released in unison, not one at a
>>>time.
>>I thought it was real historic footage for the liftoff itself.
>>>3. The paint pattern on the Saturn V is for the test configuration, not the
>>>launch configuration.
>>Wrong historical footage?
>
>Uh, no. The producers of the movie have made the point to say that there
>was not a single frame of NASA stock footage used. The only stock
>footage used in the film was the newscasts and Armstrongs first steps on
>the moon.
In a Boston accent: "By the end of this decade, we will land a
piece of stock footage on the moon!"
>This is known because the method of sound transmission is well known.
>You can even simulate it on Earth. You can evacuate the air from a
>container and run a tape player. If the vacum is complete, you won't
>here a thing.
Seen on a Caltech undergrad's T-shirt:
In Hilbert space, no one can hear you scream.
LAL
Mandible) wrote:
> Agreed. I sorely miss my circular Pickett. Lost the booger in a move
> some fifteen or twenty years ago, I did.
Still got mine. Nyah Nyah Nyah. And, sure, there's a hyphen in A-R.
In fact I've still got several of those analog calculators. Never can tell
when civilization will collapse, all electric power disappear, and all the
batteries drain out. Gotta be prepared.
The plastic ones will work underwater, too. I wonder what Kevin uses in
Waterworld?
--
Standard disclaimers apply. Nobody here ever agrees with me on anything.
Eric J. Korpela
In article <7z20vvu...@setanta.setanta.demon.co.uk>,
Alan Braggins <ar...@setanta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <snopesDB...@netcom.com> sno...@netcom.com (snopes) writes:
>
>Top Ten TECHNICAL ERRORS/ANACHRONISMS in the movie "Apollo 13"
[Supposedly compiled by NASA geeks]
>
>7. The astronauts point out the Sea of Tranquility while on the dark side of
>the moon. It is on the other side.
These NASA geeks don't know much. The Sea of Tranquility is on the dark side
of the moon for half of each month.
One problem I had with the film is that Loss of Signal when they pass behind
the moon occurs at the same instant they pass into darkness. Given where
the moon was at the time, they should have hit darkness before loss of signal.
Another problem occurs when they show the mating of two stages in the VAB.
The mating goes very quickly with no guidance and there is a large clang.
My guess is that if there was a noise, both of the stages would have been
destroyed. I'd also hazard a guess that mating two stages of a Saturn V would
take the better part of a work day, if not longer.
>2. The astronauts look at their intended landing site while on the dark
>side of the moon. It is a good thing they didn't land - no communications
>with Earth, it's dark and very cold.
Here's another problem with the brains of your NASA geek friends. The dark
side of the moon is not the same as the far side! (If I had a nickel for
every time I had explained this. :() Landing in the dark is a bad idea, but
it doesn't necessarily mean no communications.
Eric
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--
Eric Korpela | A day without meetings is like
kor...@ssl.berkeley.edu | work.
<a href="http://www.cs.indiana.edu/finger/mofo.ssl.berkeley.edu/korpela/w">Click here for more info.</a>
kei...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
>> > I just saw the movie Apollo 13 this weekend, and there were a few errors
>> > that I noticed:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Well, folks, just what you've been waiting for!
>
> Live! from the Johnson Space Center, the
>
> Top Ten TECHNICAL ERRORS/ANACHRONISMS in the movie "Apollo 13"
>
> - compiled by a bunch of genuine NASA dweebs who actually noticed these
> things.
> [...]
> 2. The astronauts look at their intended landing site while on the dark
> side of the moon. It is a good thing they didn't land - no communications
> with Earth, it's dark and very cold.
Nice going, NASA dweebs! The "dark side of the moon" is literally
dark only half the time, just like the light side. It is true that
you cannot communicate directly with Earth from there, but its
temperature and light characteristics are just the same as those of
the visible side.
> AND THE NUMBER ONE TECHNICAL ERROR/ANACHRONISM in APOLLO 13 is:
>
> 1. In space, from outside the capsule, propulsion jets do not make any noise.
The discussion on rec.movies.current-films, and my own reading of it
when I saw the movie, was that the sound is contiguous across the
internal/external shots of the jet-firing scenes. That is, that you
are hearing what the astronauts inside the capsule are hearing the
whole time, even when the visual perspective shifts to an external
shot. I can't remember now if their conversations and other
in-capsule noise continue through those shots, but the sound didn't
bother me when I watched it.
Kevin "it was the barfing scene that bothered me" T. Keith
Articulate Mandible
>Harry MF Teasley (he...@crash.cts.com) wrote:
>: Actual fact: "Barbara" comes from the French "barbarie," itself a mutation
>: of the Italian "barbarino," which, ironically, came from the French
>: "bartendre," which comes from the Norwegian "lutefisk," and means, "blonde
>: bimbette who could skewer you without batting an eye."
>Haha! But you only need to trace it as far as "Barbarino" to connect it to
>John Travolta. Maybe she just needs a royale with cheese.
I have met La Barbara - she is indeed Royale, but there's not a bit
of cheese about her. Let's not cast aspersions *or* porosity around
here.
Lon Stowell
>I think you're mean. Why do you have to call me names just because I made
>a mistake and I thought those tape recorders were not around back then in
>1969. It's not fair. You are supposed to encourage young people to use
>computers. I am only 12. The people on this BBS are not very friendly.
We DO encourage young people to use computers. ELSEWHERE, on other
networks.
12? That qualifies you as a Unix Wizard.
The people on this "BBS" are not paid to be friendly.
Oh yes. >:-) if you need it.
DaveHatunen
Brian Eirik Coe <bc...@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>In article <hatunenD...@netcom.com>,
>DaveHatunen <hat...@netcom.com> wrote:
[...]
>>Given the fact that light can't transmit when it's cold, of course it's
>>dark.
>
>Light can't transmit in the cold??
Of course not. That's why it's dark at the North Pole in the winter.
>The reason there in a dark side of
>the moon has nothing to do with the temp, but the fact that the moon is
>in the way....
Huh? In the way of what? You've been listening to too much Pink Floyd.
>>How do you know? How does anyone know? After all, even someone on an EVA is
>>inside a space suit and probably couldn't hear the jets.
>
>This is known because the method of sound transmission is well known.
>You can even simulate it on Earth. You can evacuate the air from a
>container and run a tape player. If the vacum is complete, you won't
>here a thing.
You show me a complete vacuum, and maybe I'll believe you.
Dan Day
>
>PBS aired a 90-minute documentary about Apollo 13 last night, and I was
>amazed at how //close// the movie was to the actual event. In the PBS
>show was the same scene with the little tape recorder which, in the real
>event, had "the theme from 2001" (not SPIRIT IN THE SKY as in the film).
Two guesses as to why they changed the music:
1. The rights to "Thus Spake Zarathustra" (sp?) were more expensive.
2. Ron Howard felt that using TSZ, even if historically accurate,
would have been considered too trite and unbelievable by most
of the audience.
--
"Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense." -- Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Dan Day
>
>(And *is* there a hypehn in anal-retentive?)
No, but there *is* a colon.
huge
>I'd chalk this one up to artistic license. The absence of sound
>effects would be a little distracting.
Not at all. Go and see '2001' again.
--
Regards,
Huge.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hugh J.E. Davies, Computer Consultant, Bedfordshire, England.
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
Kristin & Tom
ar...@setanta.demon.co.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> AND THE NUMBER ONE TECHNICAL ERROR/ANACHRONISM in APOLLO 13 is:
>
> 1. In space, from outside the capsule, propulsion jets do not make any noise.
>
>
> - Christopher Land
>
>
I've been waiting for YEARS to address this one! Sound is vibration
traveling through the air (ususally) that our microphones and ears
interpret. When one of the lunar missions lifted off from the moon, from
inside the Lunar Module the camera caught the American flag blowing around
(and falling over) from the ascent engine blast! I hold that if there had
been a microphone on the lunar surface pointed toward the LM, that that
same engine thrust would have VIBRATED the diaphram in the microphone,
causing a ROAR to be recorded! In space, the engine thrusters from the 2nd
Skylab crew arrival blew around the solar parasol erected by the first
crew. A microphone pointed at a thruster, even at a distance, would have
recorded the SOUND of the thruster firing.
In conventional movies, actors are often shown in an extreme long shot,
talking to each other, and we are allowed to hear their dialogue. No one
says, "We shouldn't be able to hear them!" We accept that the microphone
is closer to the actors than the camera is. I contend that if the
microphone was closer to the spacecraft, say, 10 feet out from the engine,
the thrust would vibrate the microphone. Or if the microphone were
attached to the SKIN of the spacecraft, engine firings would be heard the
way they are by the people inside the craft.
Of course we wouldn't hear rocket engines fire in space! We wouldn't have
our unprotected heads out in that vacuum listening! But a microphone out
there COULD record the sound. I've wanted to say this since Star Wars!
Thanks for letting me share this!
Tom Seiler
Tom Walsh
let...@llnl.gov (LAL) wrote:
[snip]
> In fact I've still got several of those analog calculators. Never can tell
> when civilization will collapse, all electric power disappear, and all the
> batteries drain out. Gotta be prepared.
>
> The plastic ones will work underwater, too. I wonder what Kevin uses in
> Waterworld?
Do the old plastic adding machines go to 9 places? If they don't, maybe that
explains the 200 million; he thought it was 20 million.
Tom
Tom Walsh
(Robert Alpert) wrote:
[snip]
>
> You whippersnappers who were not alive (or old enough to be aware) in
> 1970 might be surprised to discover that it was was not the stone age,
> and there were many electronic products that were transistorized.
>
You could even buy cassettes with pretaped music on them in 1970. My parents
still have a few. And the cases were soft plastic and wouldn't break if you
dropped them.
Tom
Tom Walsh
[snip]
>
> This makes sense. I had wondered what the pressure inside a spacesuit is. I
> suppose the atmosphere inside the Shuttle is oxygen/nitrogen to reduce the
> risk of fire? Or is it some other reason. Also, what was the atmosphere in
> Apollo 1 when it burned? Pure oxygen at 14 psi? Is oxygen at 4 psi as
From NASA SP-4214, "Where No Man Has Gone Before," it was pure O2 at 16.4 psi.
> safe as air at 14 psi? It seems that still has twice the partial pressure
[snip]
Tom
DaveHatunen
danny burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:
[...]
>Best place to get one these days: US Gov't Printing Office has this great
>book called "The Effects of Nucular Weapons"
>
>In addition to lots of great pictures and technical info, it also comes
>with a handy dandy circular sliderule in the back. Just dial in your
>megotonage and distance, and it lets you know how much radiation and
>blast impact you're getting.
Omigawd.
I may have, and have created, the original of that thing.
Back in the early 1960s, Uncle Sam did two noteworthy things: he
decided that I would make a better illustrator for the US Army than I
did a tool and fixture designer for Packard Electric Division of
General Motors, and he decided to create the Davy Crockett missile,
thereby giving every second lieutenant recently out of ROTC his own
nuclear weapons.
The Davy Crockett was a low-yield (maybe less than one kiloton) nuclear
device fired from a mount like a recoiless rifle or bazooka, which
could be freestanding or mounted on something like a jeep. The missile
itself looked like a bazooka shell with Marfan's Syndrome and a goiter
condition. It was to be used in tactical situations, where one company
of armor might toss one of these on the enemy, and then sweep quickly
through the blast area. Unfortunately, it was almost impossible for the
personnel firing the thing to escape the fallout and blast effects
themselves, so there was extensive trainging on how to wash down both
your tank and yourself.
I was stationed at the Army Field Printing Plant at the US Army Armor
School at Fort Knox, and us guys prepared the training manuals and
training aids, including tactical problem maps. I gotta tell you, the
US Army expected a whole lotta these little nukies to be set off at one
time. Overrunning one batallion of bad guys might call for twenty
detonations.
Anyway. One day a major comes in and he has rough sketches for a two
piece circular slide rule, and I get the job of preparing the
camera-ready artwork. On the front is a circular calculator for
determining the yield of a device by estimating the size of its
mushroom cloud. A second set of scales calculates how far downwind you
can expect fallout in one and two hours.
On the back is a diagram showing the spread of the fallout and a set of
instructions for using the thing. I've still got one somewhere amid my
yellowing art samples.
Fortunately for Germany (that's where the Davy Crockett was being
deployed), the Army actually managed to show some sense, and decided
that shavetail louies with nukes were a bum idea. I know I sure
wouldn't have wanted Lt Palmer from basic training to control any
nukes; he was such a clueless one that the DI had to ask the captain to
tell the lieutenant to stay away from the troops in the evening. We
really liked our DI.
Dave "Basic training was fun except for that red Kentucky clay that
made your feet look like snowshoes after a while" Hatunen
Bryn Rahm
|> In article <7z20vvu...@setanta.setanta.demon.co.uk>,
stuff deleted
|>
|> >7. The astronauts point out the Sea of Tranquility while on the dark side of
|> >the moon. It is on the other side.
|>
|> Um. Um. "The dark side of the moon"???? "Other side"??? That does it.
|> This can't be from NASA dweebs, unless they're trolling. It is
|> perfectly possible for the Sea of Tranquility to be on the dark side of
|> the moon. In fact, about once a month it is on the dark side of the
|> moon.
|>
'Dark side of the moon' refers to the side of the moon that does
not ever face the Earth. It is not the side that is experiencing night.
Thus it is not darker than the near side. Actually the dark side
gets slightly more direct sunlight since it is closer to the sun
during its day.
The Sea of Tranquility is on the side facing the Earth (the light side?).
Cheers,
Bryn
--
ra...@bnr.ca
The views expressed above do not necessarily represent those of BNR
snopes
> Two guesses as to why they changed the music:
> 1. The rights to "Thus Spake Zarathustra" (sp?) were more expensive.
Um, Mahler's been dead for 84 years. I don't think he's still collecting
royalties.
- snopes