Things I learned from the X-files: Fight the Future

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

It had to be done, yes? But before we begin I'd just like to make a comment
on something that I noticed in this movie: Scully is almost always The
Standard Woman in Jeopardy. Mulder always needs to turn back for Scully or
save Scully or cure Scully. It's damn near insulting that Mulder has to
constantly save this woman who has a medical degree. And a gun. And such a
smashingly utilitarian wardrobe (for similar lists I've written on
everything from B5 to Jurassic Park go to
http://gpgod.home.mindspring.com/things.html)

1. You know that point in every horror movie you've ever seen where the guy
starts down that long, dark alley and you say, "Don't do it you big
stupid!" but they don't listen? Yeah, well, that particular moment has been
with us since 35,000 BC.

2. The inhabitants of North Central Texas haven't changed much in the last
35,000 years

3. The conspiracy uses big digital timers for ease of use on all their
explosives

4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the
middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.

5. While Africanized bees are reputed to be more hostile than their
American cousins what is rarely publicized is their deep sense of ironic
timing.

5b. Strangely enough, taking a jog through millions of these bees which
have just been released from confinement is perfectly safe and a
recommended activity

6. There's nothing like a meaningful glance... every 5 minutes to hammer
across that there's something really friggin weird going on around here.
Give and receive these glances whenever possible. Dramatic tension? Who
needs that? We've got people LOOKING at each other

7. When searching for people who have just bullied there way into a
government installation don't actually search. Too time consuming. Just
walk into the center of a room with dripping cadavers, stand there and
leave.

7b. Most cell phones won't work if they're in a metal room in a big
building. Scully's not only works inside of a freezer in the morgue in a
Naval hospital but does so with a crystal clear reception.

7c. Mulder and Scully, never having heard of the vibrate setting, will
install extra loud ringers in their cell phones should they go deaf while
being shot at by the people tipped off as to their presence by their cell
phones

8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years in the
form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well it's
really big and looks like oil

9. While I was under the impression that vaccines prevented disease it
appears I and the dictionary are way off base. See what they actually do is
retro-actively cure disease. It's a fact. Scully's a doctor and it worked
on her

10. Military gynecologists are among the best informed, most insightful
people in the world with long standing knowledge of government
conspiracies. (While I have precious little experience with OB/GYNs I'm
forced to speculate that his special skills was indispensable as his
specialty was mentioned many, many times.)

11. How many of your family photo albums feature prominent pictures of
people you don't remember?

12. After making clear that you want someone kept alive immediately shoot
them in the head. While this may not make sense to you and I neither does
having an ambulance waiting somewhere for Scully to get stung by a bee that
she picked up in Texas

13. Aliens have a knack for infesting Scully with... whatever strikes their
fancy

14. The alien mothership features standard bad guy security in that it is
completely ineffective at actually securing much of anything. Mulder
manages to not only sneak onboard but leave with Scully

15. When you're an alien for whom cold slows the spawning process.. move to
Antarctica. This makes it easier to administer history's first retroactive
vaccinate

16. Did you know that suspended animation can be undone by simply breaking
the ice entombing the suspendee? Neither did I but I know now. Silly, huh?
Those wacky conspiratorial aliens and their crazy contrapitionations.

17. Antarctica has an international airport(with a Budget Rent-a-Car no
less) for the traveler who needs to get across the barren wastes to...
nowhere in particular

18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
Officials...

19. Corn, for some as yet inexplicable reason, is key to the future of the
human species (I ventured the theory that the reason the Brain has failed
to take over the world thus far is that few, if any, of his schemes have
involved actual corn on the cob)

Look, other than "The Truman Show" and "Out of Sight", which was DAMN GOOD
btw, this is one of the best movies I've seen all year. That is so very,
very sad.

P&SC
...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying

[@asan.com Lord Kinbote]

spoilers

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message <6n5m89>

>1. You know that point in every horror movie you've ever seen where the guy
>starts down that long, dark alley and you say, "Don't do it you big
>stupid!" but they don't listen? Yeah, well, that particular moment has been
>with us since 35,000 BC.

They went into the cave for the purpose of killing the creature. You can
see that they are following tracks in the snow. They knew the moster was
there, they just weren't strong enough to survive it.

>4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the
>middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
>anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.

Yeah, I agree that that really doesn't make too much sense.

>5. While Africanized bees are reputed to be more hostile than their
>American cousins what is rarely publicized is their deep sense of ironic
>timing.

>5b. Strangely enough, taking a jog through millions of these bees which
>have just been released from confinement is perfectly safe and a
>recommended activity

The bee seemed to be homing in on the chip in Scully's neck. The chip was
never mentioned in the movie, so if you look at the movie "in a vacuum" it
makes less sense.

>7. When searching for people who have just bullied there way into a
>government installation don't actually search. Too time consuming. Just
>walk into the center of a room with dripping cadavers, stand there and
>leave.

To tell you the truth, that bothered me too. Even after they left the room,
how did Scully get past the guards?

>8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years in the
>form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well it's
>really big and looks like oil

The virus wasn't the oil itself, the virus was IN the oil. The oil was the
natural petroleum that is underground in Texas. You can see an oil drill in
the background when the boy falls into the cave. The bees carry the virus
after it has been separated from the oil. That's why Scully's eyes never
filled with oil, like everyone else infected by the virus.

In the season finale, Mulder speculates that all humans have been
genetically altered in the distant past. I don't think the virus contains
the monster. The virus is the trigger for the altered DNA that is within
each person. Again, this wasn't stated in the movie, so it's harder to
understand if you look at the movie in a vacuum.

>9. While I was under the impression that vaccines prevented disease it
>appears I and the dictionary are way off base. See what they actually do is
>retro-actively cure disease. It's a fact. Scully's a doctor and it worked
>on her

I may be wrong, but some vaccines, like rabies vaccines, are given after
someone is already infected.

>10. Military gynecologists are among the best informed, most insightful
>people in the world with long standing knowledge of government
>conspiracies. (While I have precious little experience with OB/GYNs I'm
>forced to speculate that his special skills was indispensable as his
>specialty was mentioned many, many times.)

Well, if a major part of your conspiracy was to create alien-human hybrids,
then the answer is yes. See the episode "Memento Mori." Alien-human
hybrids weren't mentioned in the movie, but they can't just come out and
explain everything for you, can they?

>11. How many of your family photo albums feature prominent pictures of
>people you don't remember?

You must have a much better memory than I do. Can YOU really go through an
old family album and instantly name everyone shown in a prominent picture?
Try it sometime.

>12. After making clear that you want someone kept alive immediately shoot
>them in the head. While this may not make sense to you and I neither does
>having an ambulance waiting somewhere for Scully to get stung by a bee that
>she picked up in Texas

Again, Scully had the chip in her neck, so it was only a matter of time
until she was stung.

>15. When you're an alien for whom cold slows the spawning process.. move to
>Antarctica. This makes it easier to administer history's first retroactive
>vaccinate

That was the point! The alien colonists didn't want the humans to know
that, at higher than average temperatures, an infected human will become a
"digestable" for the new biological weapon. The Conspiracy thought that the
humans were just going to be mindless slaves to be shipped off planet.

>16. Did you know that suspended animation can be undone by simply breaking
>the ice entombing the suspendee? Neither did I but I know now. Silly, huh?
>Those wacky conspiratorial aliens and their crazy contrapitionations.

Scully didn't wake up when Mulder broke the ice, she woke up when she was
given the injection. The alien monsters only form at high temperatures.
When the aliens realized that Mulder was on the ship (I agree that alien
ship security is always a joke in the movies) they increased the temperature
of the infected humans on board. This caused the "biological weapon"
monsters to form, and break through the ice.

>18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
>obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
>but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
>out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
>Officials...

It wasn't much, but it was the only hard evidence they had. Skinner had
already know that there was a secret project involving bees from "Zero Sum,"
and he hated the fact that CSM had forced him to cover it up. Seeing the
bee was enough to convince him to work hard to get the X-files reopened, if
only to get back at CSM.

>19. Corn, for some as yet inexplicable reason, is key to the future of the
>human species (I ventured the theory that the reason the Brain has failed
>to take over the world thus far is that few, if any, of his schemes have
>involved actual corn on the cob)

The corn pollen contained the virus extracted from the oil, the bees touch
the pollen and get infected with the virus. From one of the episodes this
season, we know that the "process" is supposed to start sometime in the next
15 years.

Kinbote

[J]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message

<6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
>
>[great list snipped]

>
>18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
>obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
>but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
>out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
>Officials...
>

I guess I was comfortably numb by this point in the film, because I never
did ask myself "Where did she get that bee?" Scully got stung in/near
Washington, D.C. and was stripped, put in cold storage, and drop shipped to
Antartica where she was packed in her own or something else's juices. Her
clothes disappeared during her preparation, and presumably the dead bee
would have been in her clothes. So, the Syndicate/Illumanati/Free Masons
would've had the bee, right?

This makes either of the following scenes possible in the director's cut of
_XF:FTF_:
1> Before she succumbed to the bee's virus (giving a tear-jerking,
West-like, "If - I - could only - get - to my - utility belt" rendition of
her symptoms as she collapsed) and while Moulder called Jiffy Ambulances,
Inc., she hid the bee somewhere on her, ahem, person to be later, ahem,
retrieved;
2> Moulder grabbed Scully's ankles, held her upside-down, and shook her
until the bee corpse fell out of her clothes where he then preserved the bee
in a spare specimen jar he had lying around his apartment.

>19. Corn, for some as yet inexplicable reason, is key to the future of the
>human species (I ventured the theory that the reason the Brain has failed
>to take over the world thus far is that few, if any, of his schemes have
>involved actual corn on the cob)
>
>Look, other than "The Truman Show" and "Out of Sight", which was DAMN GOOD
>btw, this is one of the best movies I've seen all year. That is so very,
>very sad.
>

I agree with the "very, very sad".

>P&SC
>...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying
>
>

Really? What's George Clooney's head oscillation factor (in
bobs-per-minute)?

J
sali...@no-spam.primary.net
(for sending E-mail - which one of these is not like the other?)

[Anne Marsden]

>9. While I was under the impression that vaccines prevented disease it
>appears I and the dictionary are way off base. See what they actually
do is
>retro-actively cure disease. It's a fact. Scully's a doctor and it
worked
>on her

Much as I am loath to play a doctor on the Internet with respect to
fictional extraterrestrial viruses, your point 9. is not always true.
For instance, Rabies is treated with post-exposure vaccine. Hepatitis B
exposure is treated with post-exposure vaccine. The WMM did make a
tremendous fuss about it only being efficacious in the first 96 hours,
which sounds like a reasonable time period for vaccination.

Of course, these vaccines are given concurrently with immune globulin.
IG is also given for many viral infections post-exposure where vaccines
are not effective. WMM did not offer Mulder any BOIG (Black Oil Immune
Globulin). I don't know why - if I were the consortium, Marita would be
hooked up to a plasmapheresis machine and providing liters of BOIG. (For
those who don't watch the show - Marita was infected and vaccinated
several months ago but remains in a coma.)

Anne M

[Poke...@my-dejanews.com]

In article <6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>,

Damn!! If you're gonna be so funny you might at least want to post a
warning in the subject title first. I haven't laughed so hard in weeks.

Strangely enough, none of this struck me as weird or implausible when I
first saw the film. Suspension of disbelief is a wonderful thing.

Molly Malone

****************************
Fight the Gherkins! Visit pickle power
my 100% dill website.
http://members.tripod.com/~Pokernose/index.html

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

[Anne Marsden]

>I guess I was comfortably numb by this point in the film, because I
never
>did ask myself "Where did she get that bee?" Scully got stung in/near
>Washington, D.C. and was stripped, put in cold storage, and drop
shipped to
>Antartica where she was packed in her own or something else's juices.
Her
>clothes disappeared during her preparation, and presumably the dead bee
>would have been in her clothes. So, the Syndicate/Illumanati/Free
Masons
>would've had the bee, right?
>

The Lone Gunmen (called the Cowardly Lion, the Scarecrow and
something-else in the movie just to fool movie-only people) intercepted
the cellphone 911 call. (As did Jiffy Ambulance - they weren't the real
emergency services, but a waiting transportation system for
Stung!Scully.) They went to Mulder's and picked up the bee in the
corridor. They say as much in Mulder's hospital room, if you saw the
print of the movie that has that scene intact. The Lone Gunmen are
Mulder's 'friends', not the conspiracy.

Anne M

[Ed Dravecky III]

J (sali...@no-spam.primary.net) wrote:
> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
<SNIP!>

> >...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying
>

> Really? What's George Clooney's head oscillation factor (in
> bobs-per-minute)?

ZERO. He doesn't do the head-bob thing at ALL in this flick.
I'm heartily recommendingg this film to all my friends and it
should wind up on my Ten Best list for the year. (3.5 stars!)
--
Ed Dravecky III <*>
dshe...@netcom.com

[virgilio villacorta]

>4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the
>middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
>anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.
>

I don't know if you caught this from the movie, but only ONE person who was
actually in the Dallas building when it blew up was Special Agent Michaurd
(sp?). The other bodies were no where near the explosion; after all, when
Scully examines the bodies, one of her first remarks was that the bodies
weren't burned at all.

BTW the bodies were eventually incinerated, sometime after Scully gets a
look at them. Remember that, when CSM was examining the gestate at the
North Dallas site, he remarks something along the lines of, "incinerate him,
like the others."

virgilio villacorta

[sawr...@smartt.com]

Loved it! It is sad that this movie can be picked apart so much, but
is still one of the more entertaining movies out there. I guess
entertainment doesn't have to make logical sense anymore!

>"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:

[Meg Thompson]

virgilio villacorta (vvill...@email.msn.com) wrote:

> >4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the
> >middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
> >anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.
> >

> I don't know if you caught this from the movie, but only ONE person who was

> actually in the Dallas building when it blew up was Special Agent Michaurd
> (sp?). The other bodies were no where near the explosion; after all, when
> Scully examines the bodies, one of her first remarks was that the bodies
> weren't burned at all.

Right--the bodies were supposed to be "found" as a plausible explanation
to their deaths. I doubt their families were allowed to view the gooey
corpses.

-=Megasus

[tfre...@cgaus.com]

In article <6n5s4b$n9p$1...@supernews.com>,

"Lord Kinbote" <kahlil @asan.com> wrote:
>
> spoilers
>
> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message <6n5m89>

[snippage]

> >8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years in the
> >form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well it's
> >really big and looks like oil
>
> The virus wasn't the oil itself, the virus was IN the oil. The oil was the
> natural petroleum that is underground in Texas.

What's your proof for this statement? Just because the substance has been
referred to as 'black oil', does not mean that it is actually petroleum.

> You can see an oil drill in the background when the boy falls into the cave.

Which means absolutely nothing if you ever been to Texas. You see rigs, beam
pumping units (for those of you ignorant of such things, a pumping unit is a
mechanical contraption used to pump oil and water up a wellbore--it's up/down
motion is reminscient of a hobby horse), and tanks farms all over the place!

[snip]

> >11. How many of your family photo albums feature prominent pictures of
> >people you don't remember?
>
> You must have a much better memory than I do. Can YOU really go through an
> old family album and instantly name everyone shown in a prominent picture?
> Try it sometime.

Mulder ought to investigate everyone that appears in his old photos, though.
It seems as if he's got pictures of most of the conspirators!

> >12. After making clear that you want someone kept alive immediately shoot
> >them in the head. While this may not make sense to you and I neither does
> >having an ambulance waiting somewhere for Scully to get stung by a bee that
> >she picked up in Texas
>
> Again, Scully had the chip in her neck, so it was only a matter of time
> until she was stung.

So, the cabal had ambulances following Scully just waiting for the bee to
strike??? What a plan!

> >16. Did you know that suspended animation can be undone by simply breaking
> >the ice entombing the suspendee? Neither did I but I know now. Silly, huh?
> >Those wacky conspiratorial aliens and their crazy contrapitionations.
>
> Scully didn't wake up when Mulder broke the ice, she woke up when she was
> given the injection. The alien monsters only form at high temperatures.
> When the aliens realized that Mulder was on the ship (I agree that alien
> ship security is always a joke in the movies) they increased the temperature
> of the infected humans on board. This caused the "biological weapon"
> monsters to form, and break through the ice.

So, you are suggesting that the gestation only began after Mulder introduced
the vaccine to their system? I think you are confused. At least some of the
people were in cold storage because the process had already begun and the cold
temperatures were the only way to prevent more of the Alien-esque creatures
from bursting out into the world.

> >18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
> >obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
> >but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
> >out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
> >Officials...

...including Gwyneth Paltrow's mom, Blythe Danner. Not much of a role for an
accomplished actress like her. Perhaps she's going to appear next season.

Tracy Freeling

[Matthew Powell]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message

<6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...

>2. The inhabitants of North Central Texas haven't changed much in the
last
>35,000 years

Hey! I mean, ughh -oofer-ungawa...

[Lizard]

A few more things I learned:

a)The Antartic is, overall, about as cold as, say, New York City
during a mild winter. It's painless to climb a frozen cliff with no
gloves and with your hood down.

b)If you fall down a fifty foot ice shaft and have no climbing tools,
you can still get out easily.

c)If you are stuck on an Antarctic ice field, and are wanted by a
shadowny conspiracy that has tried to kill you many times, you can
STILL somehow leave the Antarctic and return to Washington.

d)A mile-wide, mile-deep pit in the Antarctic that wasn't there a day
before isn't 'proof' of anything out of the ordinary happening.

e)You can fall down an ice shaft, and then into the heart of the alien
mothership, without risking breaking a fragile glass vial.

*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice;
Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue:AuH20
http://www.mrlizard.com

[@asan.com Lord Kinbote]

tfre...@cgaus.com wrote in message

>[snippage]

>> >8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years in
the
>> >form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well it's
>> >really big and looks like oil
>>
>> The virus wasn't the oil itself, the virus was IN the oil. The oil was
the
>> natural petroleum that is underground in Texas.
>

>What's your proof for this statement? Just because the substance has been
>referred to as 'black oil', does not mean that it is actually petroleum.

I can't say that I have any "proof" of anything, but there is some evidence.
I don't remember "Piper Maru" in too much detail, but others have posted
that the oil left behind by the alien was tested and found to be synthetic
petroleum. If the oil was synthetic, then the alien must have come into the
oil after it was manufactured. Of course, I'm making the assumption that
that "oilien" is similar to the Black Oil from Tunguska/FTF. Anyway, Scully
was stung by a bee infected with the virus, but her eyes never turned black,
because there was no "oil" in the bee

>> You can see an oil drill in the background when the boy falls into the
cave.
>

>Which means absolutely nothing if you ever been to Texas. You see rigs,
beam
>pumping units (for those of you ignorant of such things, a pumping unit is
a
>mechanical contraption used to pump oil and water up a wellbore--it's
up/down
>motion is reminscient of a hobby horse), and tanks farms all over the
place!

Yes, that's what was in the background. One of those "hobby horse" pumping
unit things. It isn't "proof," but the two bee farms were located in places
where there is a lot of natural oil, one in Texas, and one in the Middle
East. The earlier bee farm (from Herrenvolk) was located somewhere in
Canada. I don't know if there is oil in real life in that part of Canada,
but *those* bees were used to carry Smallpox, not the Black Oil virus.

>>
>> Scully didn't wake up when Mulder broke the ice, she woke up when she was
>> given the injection. The alien monsters only form at high temperatures.
>> When the aliens realized that Mulder was on the ship (I agree that alien
>> ship security is always a joke in the movies) they increased the
temperature
>> of the infected humans on board. This caused the "biological weapon"
>> monsters to form, and break through the ice.
>

>So, you are suggesting that the gestation only began after Mulder
introduced
>the vaccine to their system? I think you are confused. At least some of
the
>people were in cold storage because the process had already begun and the
cold
>temperatures were the only way to prevent more of the Alien-esque creatures
>from bursting out into the world.

I think that the gestation happed really, really fast. About as fast as
"Leonard Betts" produced a new version of himself in the episode of the same
name. It may not seem "realistic," but since we're talking about the
X-files here, and we've already seen similar stuff happen really fast. The
only reason why the fireman's alien took so long to gestate was because he
was kept at sub-freezing temperatures (-2C), yet the alien still gestated
and was able to break free. I still think that, as far as the Conspiracy
knew, that was just a slave ship.

Kinbote

[Jun Yan]

> >4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the
> >middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
> >anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.

And after a huge explosion, the bodies that were intended to be destroyed
were still as good as new!! So what exactly did the act of bombing
accomplish other than attract attention and investigation plus reminding
me of the opening scene of "Lethal Weapon 3"?

> >8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years in the
> >form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well it's
> >really big and looks like oil

Actually, it is true. A virus is something that cannot be define as a
"life form". It can crystalize without being "dead". If you dump a virus
on Mars or the moon, it will "hibernate", until one day it can find a host
to get itself start replicating again. A virus "dies" when it loses its
ability to replicating itself and it only "lives" when it replicate itself
using the host's machinary (DNA, RNA, ribosome, enzymes). It doesn't do
anything else, nor does it just out of the dark and tear out your guts.

However, it is fairly obvious that Mr. Carter does not have the faintest
idea what a virus really is, or he would not define the extraterrestrial
life as a "virus". A virus does not grow into a huge organism resembling
that in "Alien", and a virus does not "mutate" into a, say, mammal-like or
insect-like organism. It's obvious Mr. Carter needs to be lectured on
what "muations" are too.

> >9. While I was under the impression that vaccines prevented disease it
> >appears I and the dictionary are way off base. See what they actually do is
> >retro-actively cure disease. It's a fact. Scully's a doctor and it worked
> >on her

There we go with definitions again.

Some other things I feel like mentioning --

In a huge explosion that tears down half a building, you would expect all
the windows within 5 miles are shattered for sure, yet did you notice that
the leaves on the trees nearby did not even move? That is one contained
explosion.

The aliens are smart enough to fly over half a universe to invade the
earth, yet are not able to wipe out a few billion backward creatures, that
they have to hide in nowhere land and conspire with weasels like the
Well-Manicured Man and co. Very impressive.

A couple of years ago, an interesting elderly lady professor taught us
microbiology. She said on screen microbiologists always amused her,
because they would like into the microscrope and say "A-Ha! That's
streptococcus infection (or Samonella etc.)." while in real life no such
determination can be made so quickly. You have to grow it, stain it, look
at it, and do some guess work. It hard enought to ID earthly bacteria
(one cannot see virus through usual microscope), I guess Scully must be a
genius to ID an alien virus.

C.K. Chesterton (sp?) once said in a mystery story that the best way of
hiding a corpse is to hide it in a thousand corpse on a battle field.
Well, same principle apply to hiding anything. If you want to hide a
corn field, where do you hide it? In the middle of the desert where
everyone would become suspicious for its purpose? I cannot believe the
stupidity when they moved the corn field into Sahara or something or that
sort. Even if American journalists would not find out, don't you think
the Russian satellites would find it a bit strange? Not to mention the
local people. If I were the aliens, I would definitely not conspire with
a bunch of morons like this.

jun

[jenroses]

The gestation did not happen quickly. The humans on the first level
Mulder saw were primatives. The heat activated already "mostly done"
aliens.

Get the novelization. It's dry, but explains a lot.

Lord Kinbote > wrote in message <6n6im6$hs7$1...@supernews.com>...

>
>tfre...@cgaus.com wrote in message
>
>
>>[snippage]

>>> >8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years
in
>the
>>> >form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well
it's
>>> >really big and looks like oil
>>>
>>> The virus wasn't the oil itself, the virus was IN the oil. The oil
was
>the
>>> natural petroleum that is underground in Texas.
>>

>>What's your proof for this statement? Just because the substance has
been
>>referred to as 'black oil', does not mean that it is actually
petroleum.
>
>
>I can't say that I have any "proof" of anything, but there is some
evidence.
>I don't remember "Piper Maru" in too much detail, but others have
posted
>that the oil left behind by the alien was tested and found to be
synthetic
>petroleum. If the oil was synthetic, then the alien must have come
into the
>oil after it was manufactured. Of course, I'm making the assumption
that
>that "oilien" is similar to the Black Oil from Tunguska/FTF. Anyway,
Scully
>was stung by a bee infected with the virus, but her eyes never turned
black,
>because there was no "oil" in the bee
>

>>> You can see an oil drill in the background when the boy falls into
the
>cave.
>>

>>Which means absolutely nothing if you ever been to Texas. You see
rigs,
>beam
>>pumping units (for those of you ignorant of such things, a pumping
unit is
>a
>>mechanical contraption used to pump oil and water up a wellbore--it's
>up/down
>>motion is reminscient of a hobby horse), and tanks farms all over the
>place!
>
>
>Yes, that's what was in the background. One of those "hobby horse"
pumping
>unit things. It isn't "proof," but the two bee farms were located in
places
>where there is a lot of natural oil, one in Texas, and one in the
Middle
>East. The earlier bee farm (from Herrenvolk) was located somewhere in
>Canada. I don't know if there is oil in real life in that part of
Canada,
>but *those* bees were used to carry Smallpox, not the Black Oil virus.
>
>>>

>>> Scully didn't wake up when Mulder broke the ice, she woke up when
she was
>>> given the injection. The alien monsters only form at high
temperatures.
>>> When the aliens realized that Mulder was on the ship (I agree that
alien
>>> ship security is always a joke in the movies) they increased the
>temperature
>>> of the infected humans on board. This caused the "biological
weapon"
>>> monsters to form, and break through the ice.
>>

[jenroses]

sawr...@smartt.com wrote in message
<6n63lu$3u7$1...@newsfeed.smartt.com>...

>Loved it! It is sad that this movie can be picked apart so much, but
>is still one of the more entertaining movies out there. I guess
>entertainment doesn't have to make logical sense anymore!
>
>
>>"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:

<snip>

SINCE WHEN IS THE X-FILES ABOUT LOGICAL SENSE???????

<whew>

I feel much better now.

JenRose - Haven
The X-Philes Storytelling Forum
http://www.dejanews.com/group/dejanews.members.arts.jenrose.xphiles-stor
ytelling
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_________________________________________________________________

"Complex systems thrive at the thin edge of chaos."
__________________________________________________________________

Any discussion of conversational tactics can be elaborated at:

http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html

[jenroses]

Watch the movie again.

The bee was in the hallway. The Lone Gunmen found it, showed it to
Mulder in the hospital.

Presumably, they gave it to Scully when our dynamic duo was rescued.

J wrote in message <35967...@news.primary.net>...

>
>Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
><6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
>>

>>[great list snipped]

>>
>>18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
>>obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing
here
>>but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the
shit
>>out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
>>Officials...
>>
>

>I guess I was comfortably numb by this point in the film, because I
never
>did ask myself "Where did she get that bee?" Scully got stung in/near
>Washington, D.C. and was stripped, put in cold storage, and drop
shipped to
>Antartica where she was packed in her own or something else's juices.
Her
>clothes disappeared during her preparation, and presumably the dead bee
>would have been in her clothes. So, the Syndicate/Illumanati/Free
Masons
>would've had the bee, right?
>

>This makes either of the following scenes possible in the director's
cut of
>_XF:FTF_:
>1> Before she succumbed to the bee's virus (giving a tear-jerking,
>West-like, "If - I - could only - get - to my - utility belt" rendition
of
>her symptoms as she collapsed) and while Moulder called Jiffy
Ambulances,
>Inc., she hid the bee somewhere on her, ahem, person to be later, ahem,
>retrieved;
>2> Moulder grabbed Scully's ankles, held her upside-down, and shook
her
>until the bee corpse fell out of her clothes where he then preserved
the bee
>in a spare specimen jar he had lying around his apartment.
>

>>19. Corn, for some as yet inexplicable reason, is key to the future of
the
>>human species (I ventured the theory that the reason the Brain has
failed
>>to take over the world thus far is that few, if any, of his schemes
have
>>involved actual corn on the cob)
>>
>>Look, other than "The Truman Show" and "Out of Sight", which was DAMN
GOOD
>>btw, this is one of the best movies I've seen all year. That is so
very,
>>very sad.
>>
>

>I agree with the "very, very sad".
>

>>P&SC
>>...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying
>>
>>
>

>Really? What's George Clooney's head oscillation factor (in
>bobs-per-minute)?
>

[jenroses]

Jun Yan wrote in message ...

>> >4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in
the
>> >middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate
them or
>> >anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.
>

>And after a huge explosion, the bodies that were intended to be
destroyed
>were still as good as new!! So what exactly did the act of bombing
>accomplish other than attract attention and investigation plus
reminding
>me of the opening scene of "Lethal Weapon 3"?

The FEMA temporary quarantine site was "not near the blast center". They
did not intend for the bodies to be destroyed completely in the blast,
because they wanted to be seen dragging body bags out. Coverup. Doesn't
do any good to blow up a building to cover up the fact that someone died
somewhere else if they aren't found intact enough for it to be plausible
that they could be identified by someone.

In the novelization, it is a little more clear that the body is not
completely intact. It is missing an arm and has a big hole in the
stomach. The hole, I presume, is from the removal of the gestating
alien, which was then burned before the body was put in the buildiing.
One presumes that the body isn't contageous, only the baby!alien.

>
>> >8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years
in the
>> >form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well
it's
>> >really big and looks like oil
>

>Actually, it is true. A virus is something that cannot be define as a
>"life form". It can crystalize without being "dead". If you dump a
virus
>on Mars or the moon, it will "hibernate", until one day it can find a
host
>to get itself start replicating again. A virus "dies" when it loses
its
>ability to replicating itself and it only "lives" when it replicate
itself
>using the host's machinary (DNA, RNA, ribosome, enzymes). It doesn't
do
>anything else, nor does it just out of the dark and tear out your guts.
>
>However, it is fairly obvious that Mr. Carter does not have the
faintest
>idea what a virus really is, or he would not define the
extraterrestrial
>life as a "virus". A virus does not grow into a huge organism
resembling
>that in "Alien", and a virus does not "mutate" into a, say, mammal-like
or
>insect-like organism. It's obvious Mr. Carter needs to be lectured on
>what "muations" are too.
>

A virus *could*, however, trigger reactions in the human body,
systemically. And it has been implied that humanity has been genetically
altered sometime long, long ago.

As to the mutation, the Syndicate had it wrong due to incomplete
information. They did not know that the same virus existed in
essentially the same form 37,000 years ago (remember to add 2,000 to the
BC date).

The virus did not "become the gestating alien", it triggered the
formation of the gestating alien.
<snip>

>The aliens are smart enough to fly over half a universe to invade the
>earth, yet are not able to wipe out a few billion backward creatures,
that
>they have to hide in nowhere land and conspire with weasels like the
>Well-Manicured Man and co. Very impressive.
>

The implication is that the oiliens aren't the only "players". Methinks
that the oiliens act surreptitiously because there are other forces in
the universe (not us) which force them to do so. I'm thinking prime
directive type stuff, here, only less polite.
<snip>.

>
>C.K. Chesterton (sp?) once said in a mystery story that the best way of
>hiding a corpse is to hide it in a thousand corpse on a battle field.
>Well, same principle apply to hiding anything. If you want to hide a
>corn field, where do you hide it? In the middle of the desert where
>everyone would become suspicious for its purpose? I cannot believe the
>stupidity when they moved the corn field into Sahara or something or
that
>sort. Even if American journalists would not find out, don't you think
>the Russian satellites would find it a bit strange? Not to mention the
>local people. If I were the aliens, I would definitely not conspire
with
>a bunch of morons like this.

Okay... first of all, there's an excellent reason for putting a
contagious crop and killer bees in the middle of the desert rather than
with food crops, and if you think about it, it will be very obvious.
Second of all, the Russians are in on it too. If I had highly contagious
alien virus grown into my corn, I'd want to keep it where I could
control it as much as possible, away from civilization and somewhere
where the climate would keep my bees from wanting to leave.

Second of all, I don't get the impression that anyone thinks they have
very much choice in The X-Files.

[Robert St. James]

Jun Yan wrote in message ...

:> >4. To prevent a plague
<...>
:C.K. Chesterton (sp?) once said in a mystery story that the best way of

:hiding a corpse is to hide it in a thousand corpse on a battle field.
:Well, same principle apply to hiding anything. If you want to hide a
:corn field, where do you hide it? In the middle of the desert where
:everyone would become suspicious for its purpose? I cannot believe the
:stupidity when they moved the corn field into Sahara or something or that
:sort. Even if American journalists would not find out, don't you think
:the Russian satellites would find it a bit strange? Not to mention the
:local people. If I were the aliens, I would definitely not conspire with
:a bunch of morons like this.

:
:jun

No sh*t. The final Tunisia scene cracked me up too. I liked it, because
it was so completely ridiculous that it made perfect sense. Let's see,
where, oh where in the world can we hide this big ol f*cking spaceship...
I know, right out in the middle of the Tunisian Desert where it will stick
out like a nun in a whorehouse! Oh, and on top of that, let's dress Strughold
up like one of the Nazi's from Indiana Jones while we're at it and try to frighten
him with a telegram saying the X-Files have been reopened. But I think CC
was winking at us with this one, by calling the place "Tatoouine" which is,
in addition to being a city in Tunisia, also a location in Star Wars

"Tatooine is a desert planet on the galactic frontier, home to Tusken Raiders, Jawas, and
many alien species who stop through the remote spaceports on their way through Outer Rim
hyperspace trade routes. Tatooine's few cities house a variety of galactic flotsam, and offer
both refuge and danger to visitors from outside. "

http://www.starwars.com/locations/tatooine/

Robert St. James
(american singer, american songwriter)
http://www.rjames.com

[Robert St. James]

jenroses wrote in message ...
:
<..>
:The FEMA temporary quarantine site was "not near the blast center". They

:did not intend for the bodies to be destroyed completely in the blast,
:because they wanted to be seen dragging body bags out. Coverup. Doesn't
:do any good to blow up a building to cover up the fact that someone died
:somewhere else if they aren't found intact enough for it to be plausible
:that they could be identified by someone.

:SINCE WHEN IS THE X-FILES ABOUT LOGICAL SENSE???????
:
:<whew>

Heh.

Sorry, but the irony was too rich.

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Lord Kinbote wrote

>They went into the cave for the purpose of killing the creature. You can
>see that they are following tracks in the snow. They knew the moster was
>there, they just weren't strong enough to survive it.

I don't care if they went in their with the intention of selling Mary Kay
products at a fabulous discount that everyone should have, smart people
don't charge, shuffle or allow themselves to be dragged into dank, musty
caves that evil creatures regularly reside in. It's a rule.

>The bee seemed to be homing in on the chip in Scully's neck. The chip was
>never mentioned in the movie, so if you look at the movie "in a vacuum" it
>makes less sense.

So this bee homed in on Scully's chip... and waited. And waited. And waited
some more. It then felt the arousal rising within her and decided, "This
just won't do." and stung her then. Is that what you're saying? It's so
simple! How could I have missed it!?

>The virus wasn't the oil itself, the virus was IN the oil. The oil was
the
>natural petroleum that is underground in Texas. You can see an oil drill
in
>the background when the boy falls into the cave. The bees carry the virus
>after it has been separated from the oil. That's why Scully's eyes never
>filled with oil, like everyone else infected by the virus.

Oh. I see. So how did the virus move the oil? Virus Psychic Powers? It
seemed to move like single celled critters... with pseudopodia. So how did
this virus manage to use the oil as a means of locomotion? Internal
combustion? Or, a better question, just how did the Virus move the oil
through people's skin?

>In the season finale, Mulder speculates that all humans have been
>genetically altered in the distant past. I don't think the virus contains
>the monster. The virus is the trigger for the altered DNA that is within
>each person. Again, this wasn't stated in the movie, so it's harder to
>understand if you look at the movie in a vacuum.

So the virus is exactly the opposite of what that English Guy said it was.
It's in fact like the obelisk in 2001 and it makes us into Dave Bowman-like
star children only they're really ugly star children who enjoy slicing
people up.

>I may be wrong, but some vaccines, like rabies vaccines, are given after
>someone is already infected.

They are. However they do no immediately cure someone and make them well
and happy and skippy and jumpy within seconds.

>Well, if a major part of your conspiracy was to create alien-human
hybrids,
>then the answer is yes. See the episode "Memento Mori." Alien-human
>hybrids weren't mentioned in the movie, but they can't just come out and
>explain everything for you, can they?

No, now that you mention it. I don't think I really want to know.

>You must have a much better memory than I do. Can YOU really go through
an
>old family album and instantly name everyone shown in a prominent picture?
>Try it sometime.

Yes, I can. Old friends, new friends. But especially my mom or dad's best
buddies. They're real easy to spot as they usually appear more than once.

>Again, Scully had the chip in her neck, so it was only a matter of time
>until she was stung.

So the Ambulance was creeping along the street waiting for her to get
stung? They followed her from Texas to Washington, D.C. in an ambulance.
Hung out a few blocks from Mulder's.

Does Mulder have a chip in his head that deflected the bullet?

>That was the point! The alien colonists didn't want the humans to know
>that, at higher than average temperatures, an infected human will become a
>"digestable" for the new biological weapon. The Conspiracy thought that
the
>humans were just going to be mindless slaves to be shipped off planet.

Huh. They STILL thought this in spite of all the evidence gathered to the
contrary down in Blackwood, Texas? Really. Do you honestly believe that
after losing that scientist they didn't have the slightest clue? They still
shipped Scully out and that was AFTER they would appear to have known.

>Scully didn't wake up when Mulder broke the ice, she woke up when she was
>given the injection.

Ah, so suspended animation can be alleviated through the administration of
a vaccine. That makes soo much mooore sense!

> The alien monsters only form at high temperatures.

That's not true. The guy in the cave was kept near freezing and the monster
still formed. Cold only retarded the process.

>When the aliens realized that Mulder was on the ship (I agree that alien
>ship security is always a joke in the movies) they increased the
temperature
>of the infected humans on board.

Doing absolutely nothing.

This caused the "biological weapon"
>monsters to form, and break through the ice.

Ah, I see.

>>18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
>>obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
>>but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
>>out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
>>Officials...
>
>
>It wasn't much, but it was the only hard evidence they had. Skinner had
>already know that there was a secret project involving bees from "Zero
Sum,"
>and he hated the fact that CSM had forced him to cover it up. Seeing the
>bee was enough to convince him to work hard to get the X-files reopened,
if
>only to get back at CSM.

But it could have been ANY bee. That's all that happened. Scully charged up
to the desk and said, "You don't have an investigative wahzewhozits to look
into this." She shows them the bee. They looked shocked and Skinner gives
that lady an itoldyouso look. Scully meets Mulder. Okay. So what have we
learned from this? The FBI is incapable of investigating bee stings and the
heads of the FBI reopened to X-files to remedy this.

>The corn pollen contained the virus extracted from the oil, the bees touch
>the pollen and get infected with the virus. From one of the episodes this
>season, we know that the "process" is supposed to start sometime in the
next
>15 years.

Oh. I see now. So, in order to people the Conspiracy infects bees by
infecting corn. Instead of just having people eat the corn or get stung by
the bees they need both to insure that the bees get virus from the corn as
there are no other sources.

P&SC
....what could I have been thinking to question Carter's genius?

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

J wrote

>I guess I was comfortably numb by this point in the film, because I never
>did ask myself "Where did she get that bee?"

I did. In fact it was a question on my list but I took it off. Why you
might ask. Well before you can I'll tell you: Clearly they had bees in
their
shoes from when they ran out of the big breast shaped domes. Those were
waiting to strike as well but Mulder 'got' them and jarred'em up.

<snipped speculation>

Next time watch more carefully okay. I've recently been informed that the
movie isn't a vacuum and that's why I didn't get it.

>>Look, other than "The Truman Show" and "Out of Sight", which was DAMN
GOOD
>>btw, this is one of the best movies I've seen all year. That is so very,
>>very sad.
>>
>

>I agree with the "very, very sad".

Indeed.

>>P&SC
>>...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying
>>
>>
>

>Really? What's George Clooney's head oscillation factor (in
>bobs-per-minute)?

I count two or three times in the whole movie. It is one of the most
genuinely funny movies in a long while and much better on all counts than
X-files. The only other movie that I hope might be better is "Avengers" It
looks to be the only actioner worth my time this summer.

But I'm gonna see Armageddon any way. I caught your list, by the way. It
was incomplete but the spider sense comment later in the thread had me
laughing for nearly 15 minutes

P&SC
...I support Michael Bay! He's the next Joel Schumaker

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

virgilio villacorta wrote

>I don't know if you caught this from the movie, but only ONE person who
was
>actually in the Dallas building when it blew up was Special Agent Michaurd
>(sp?). The other bodies were no where near the explosion; after all, when
>Scully examines the bodies, one of her first remarks was that the bodies
>weren't burned at all.

Ah. Then the bodies were found down the street and the logical conclusion
was that they thrown there by the explosion. Or the bodies were brought
into the morgue by some guy who said, "I found these at the bomb sight." It
was announced that these people died in the building but they weren't
actually in the building. There's still no good reason to blow up that
building other than to spend most of the fx budget early on. So, after
evacuating the building of everyone, five people, including a fire man and
a kid from over a 100 miles away, were found and no one was suspicious.
Mulder and Scully wouldn't even have gotten involved if they hadn't blown
the building to hell.

>BTW the bodies were eventually incinerated, sometime after Scully gets a
>look at them. Remember that, when CSM was examining the gestate at the
>North Dallas site, he remarks something along the lines of, "incinerate
him,
>like the others."

Why later? Why not immediately? Why put them anywhere near people? People
won't notice when bodies go missing after one of the largest incidents of
domestic terrorism but they will notice if some nobodies in North Texas
disappear? Didn't anyone notice that the firemen were from a county a
fairways from the building? Kind of suspicious, yes?

P&SC

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Jun Yan wrote

>C.K. Chesterton (sp?) once said in a mystery story that the best way of

>hiding a corpse is to hide it in a thousand corpse on a battle field.
>Well, same principle apply to hiding anything.

Yes it does. It does work here. You do not blow up a building to hide the
death of five people and kill only one other person. Only 6 people died in
that explosion. You can't hide people among six. It's mathematically
impossible.

If you want to hide a
>corn field, where do you hide it?

In Iowa, with the rest of the corn.

P&SC

[@asan.com Lord Kinbote]

Robert St. James wrote in message <6n6tas$4p4$1...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>...
>
>>
spoilers

>No sh*t. The final Tunisia scene cracked me up too. I liked it, because
>it was so completely ridiculous that it made perfect sense. Let's see,
>where, oh where in the world can we hide this big ol f*cking spaceship...
>I know, right out in the middle of the Tunisian Desert where it will stick
>out like a nun in a whorehouse!

[snip]

Spaceship? What spaceship? Maybe it "stuck out like a nun in a whorehouse"
in the version of the film YOU saw, but I sure didn't see it. There were
lots of bee tents and corn fields, but there weren't any spaceships.
Strughold's base in Tunesia had been mentioned previously in the film, so
this had been going on long before the ship in Anarctica took off.

Kinbote

[Robert St. James]

Lord Kinbote > wrote in message <6n6vff$3c8$1...@supernews.com>...
:
:Robert St. James wrote in message <6n6tas$4p4$1...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>...
:>
:>>
:spoilers
:
:
:
:

:Spaceship? What spaceship? Maybe it "stuck out like a nun in a whorehouse"

:in the version of the film YOU saw, but I sure didn't see it. There were
:lots of bee tents and corn fields, but there weren't any spaceships.
:Strughold's base in Tunesia had been mentioned previously in the film, so
:this had been going on long before the ship in Anarctica took off.
:
:Kinbote

Ok, so there's no spaceship. It just flew off into space. Even better. I hope
it doesn't come back.

Seriously, though, I was lead to believe that the spacecraft had gone to Tunisia
since this was the next seen after that Antarctica business. I don't have proof,
of course, because CSM erased my memory as I walked out of the theater.

[jenroses]

Robert St. James wrote in message

<6n6thd$4ro$1...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>...

>
>jenroses wrote in message ...
>:
><..>
>:The FEMA temporary quarantine site was "not near the blast center".
They
>:did not intend for the bodies to be destroyed completely in the blast,
>:because they wanted to be seen dragging body bags out. Coverup.
Doesn't
>:do any good to blow up a building to cover up the fact that someone
died
>:somewhere else if they aren't found intact enough for it to be
plausible
>:that they could be identified by someone.
>
>
>:SINCE WHEN IS THE X-FILES ABOUT LOGICAL SENSE???????
>:
>:<whew>
>
>Heh.
>
>Sorry, but the irony was too rich.
>

ROFL!

Ya got me.... I've been saying the same thing all day, while trying to
explain to people that it actually did mostly make sense if you can get
your mind on the same track as CC.

JenRose - Haven
The X-Philes Storytelling Forum
http://www.dejanews.com/group/dejanews.members.arts.jenrose.xphiles-stor
ytelling
If the line wraps, make sure you copy the whole thing to your browser or
it won't work.

<http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jenrose/shirt.htm>

[Bryant Frazer]

In rec.arts.movies.current-films Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> expounded thusly:

: Yes it does. It does work here. You do not blow up a building to hide the

: death of five people and kill only one other person. Only 6 people died in
: that explosion. You can't hide people among six. It's mathematically
: impossible.

Since I'm following this thread, I should point out in defense of the
Conspiracy that the explosion was obviously meant to kill many more than
six people -- that's why the bomb threat was called in to the *wrong*
building. Right? (Of course, it does sort of beg the question of why a
bomb threat was called in in the first place.)

And help me out here, people. Am I just being a crank when I wonder why
the Conspiracy hasn't tried a little harder to rub out our friend Spooky
over the last few years? Is there a reason why they've decided to let him
live, or is this just one of the questions we don't ask in order to
preserve the series? (This is not a sarcastic question -- I'm really
curious if, as an occasional viewer, I'm missing something about his
relationship to the Conspiracy.)

-bf-
DEEP FOCUS (Movie Reviews)
http://www.panix.com/~bfrazer/flicker/
"We can't stop here -- this is bat country!"

[Scott Mendelson]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:

>
> So this bee homed in on Scully's chip... and waited. And waited. And waited
> some more. It then felt the arousal rising within her and decided, "This
> just won't do." and stung her then. Is that what you're saying? It's so
> simple! How could I have missed it!?
>

Exactly, because the bee was not only a virus-carrier, but he was a fan
of the show. Thus, when he realized that the five-year abstantince was
about to end, thus ruining the show for millions of other fans, both
human and non, he took action. And, three cheers for him!

Scott Mendelson

[Liv]

On 29 Jun 1998 03:42:46 GMT, Bryant Frazer <bfr...@panix.com> wrote:
(snip)

>And help me out here, people. Am I just being a crank when I wonder why
>the Conspiracy hasn't tried a little harder to rub out our friend Spooky
>over the last few years? Is there a reason why they've decided to let him
>live, or is this just one of the questions we don't ask in order to
>preserve the series? (This is not a sarcastic question -- I'm really
>curious if, as an occasional viewer, I'm missing something about his
>relationship to the Conspiracy.)

--------------------------------
My impression is because he is supposed to be useful...he serves as a
focus for investigations that otherwise might take place in
secret...and he seems nutsy enough to make others think that
conspiracy theories are crazy. Remember, he not only buys into their
shit, he seems quite willing to believe in fairies and vampires, too.
He is disinformation. But not everyone in the conspiracy agrees with
this, hence the attempts.

Liv
garba...@Ziplink.net
take out the garbage to reply

If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing...

[Luis Ramirez]

virgilio villacorta wrote:
>
SUPER SNIPS

> >
>
> I don't know if you caught this from the movie, but only ONE person who was
> actually in the Dallas building when it blew up was Special Agent Michaurd
> (sp?). The other bodies were no where near the explosion; after all, when
> Scully examines the bodies, one of her first remarks was that the bodies
> weren't burned at all.
>

> BTW the bodies were eventually incinerated, sometime after Scully gets a
> look at them. Remember that, when CSM was examining the gestate at the
> North Dallas site, he remarks something along the lines of, "incinerate him,
> like the others."
>

Firstly, Hey all! This is my first post in this NG(well to all of these
NG's)!

Okay, onto business. When CSM said "incinerate him, like the others." I
interpreted that comment differently than what you percieved.

I thought he meant, "Incinerate that body, like we've done in the past
with other bodies which we've infected with the black oil in order to
find a vaccine for the oil." I didn't think he was reffereing to,
"Incinerate that body, like we did with the Dallas bodies."

Interesting though. Because wasn't the Syndicate trying to find a
vaccine for the black oil. So they've been infecting people on purpose
and giving them vacinnes to see if they could find a cure. Right?

Hrmph.

Luis.

[lois...@mcione.com]

In article <35967...@news.primary.net>,

"J" <sali...@no-spam.primary.net> wrote:
>
>
> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
> <6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
> >
> >[great list snipped]
> >

> >18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
> >obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
> >but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
> >out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
> >Officials...
> >
>

> I guess I was comfortably numb by this point in the film, because I never

> did ask myself "Where did she get that bee?" Scully got stung in/near
> Washington, D.C. and was stripped, put in cold storage, and drop shipped to
> Antartica where she was packed in her own or something else's juices. Her
> clothes disappeared during her preparation, and presumably the dead bee
> would have been in her clothes. So, the Syndicate/Illumanati/Free Masons
> would've had the bee, right?
>
> This makes either of the following scenes possible in the director's cut of
> _XF:FTF_:
> 1> Before she succumbed to the bee's virus (giving a tear-jerking,
> West-like, "If - I - could only - get - to my - utility belt" rendition of
> her symptoms as she collapsed) and while Moulder called Jiffy Ambulances,
> Inc., she hid the bee somewhere on her, ahem, person to be later, ahem,
> retrieved;
> 2> Moulder grabbed Scully's ankles, held her upside-down, and shook her
> until the bee corpse fell out of her clothes where he then preserved the bee
> in a spare specimen jar he had lying around his apartment.
>

No, actually, when the bee stung, Scully went sorta AUGH and then felt around
the back of her neck and the shot of the bee was shown [i think]. Then after
Mulder was shot and in the hospital, the three guys in the room talking with
Mulder said how they found the bee in the hallway. And as for why the bee
would be such a huge thing, I think it's because the bee gave Scully the alien
virus thing and I guess was considered evidence. I dunno much about bees. Can
you tell what's in their stinger??

-lOiS laNe
If there's a point, Mulder, feel free to come to it.

[lois...@mcione.com]

In article <6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>,

"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>
> It had to be done, yes? But before we begin I'd just like to make a comment
> on something that I noticed in this movie: Scully is almost always The
> Standard Woman in Jeopardy. Mulder always needs to turn back for Scully or
> save Scully or cure Scully. It's damn near insulting that Mulder has to
> constantly save this woman who has a medical degree. And a gun. And such a
> smashingly utilitarian wardrobe

First off, I'd like to say WOW that you actually saw the movie, because in
earlier posts you said you walked out of the theater and were intending to
stay as far away as possible from FTF. Second, damn right!! Why on earth
doesn Scully always hafta be the damsel in distress?? And I thought her
clothes were very nice :)

>
> 1. You know that point in every horror movie you've ever seen where the guy
> starts down that long, dark alley and you say, "Don't do it you big
> stupid!" but they don't listen? Yeah, well, that particular moment has been
> with us since 35,000 BC.

LOL. I think those Neanderthals dudes were intending to kill the aliens; it
looked like they were following some sort of tracks leading into the caves.
It doesn't make them exactly smart or anything, but they were fighting an
enemy [shrug]

[snip a bit]

>
> 4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the
> middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
> anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.

Yah, I thought that was a little -too- way over the top for me. I figured the
same thing you did:why not throw them in a little fire to reduce into little
ashes not make a huge fire and produce huge ashes.

> 5. While Africanized bees are reputed to be more hostile than their
> American cousins what is rarely publicized is their deep sense of ironic
> timing.

I honestly think that the bee was somehow programmed. DOn't asked me how but
I think those people in the black suits [the Syndicate] were somehow
programming everything since they were talking about how to delay Mulder,
etc. That's how come the 911 phone call was intercepted and that's how they
knew when the ambulances should arrive.

> 5b. Strangely enough, taking a jog through millions of these bees which
> have just been released from confinement is perfectly safe and a
> recommended activity

Hehehe what also struck me as strange when they got back from their
bee-running was that none of them -- even Scully, a MD -- checked their
clothes for bees or check their legs or hands and neck for bee stings. I
woulda thought that one of them would have taken a shower or something.

>
> 7. When searching for people who have just bullied there way into a
> government installation don't actually search. Too time consuming. Just
> walk into the center of a room with dripping cadavers, stand there and
> leave.

I don't think that guy who was bullied was smart enough to check under the
thing Scully was hiding under. He was stupid enough to let them through,
wasn't he?

>
> 7b. Most cell phones won't work if they're in a metal room in a big
> building. Scully's not only works inside of a freezer in the morgue in a
> Naval hospital but does so with a crystal clear reception.

FBI cell phones are made of special stuff [grin]

> 8. Did you know it's possible to hibernate for like a billion years in the
> form of a virus? It's true. And this virus... well it.. ummm well it's
> really big and looks like oil

Actually, I think the virus was IN the oil. It's some weird alien thing.

>
> 9. While I was under the impression that vaccines prevented disease it
> appears I and the dictionary are way off base. See what they actually do is
> retro-actively cure disease. It's a fact. Scully's a doctor and it worked
> on her

Hm. Don't they have stuff like that for rabies? Not to sure, but i think
that's what I learned in Bio last year.

> 11. How many of your family photo albums feature prominent pictures of
> people you don't remember?

A LOT of them. ALl my mom and dad's friends...unless they gave me a good
present, I have no friggin clue of who they are.

>
> 12. After making clear that you want someone kept alive immediately shoot
> them in the head. While this may not make sense to you and I neither does
> having an ambulance waiting somewhere for Scully to get stung by a bee that
> she picked up in Texas

Ok, I thought about this one too. I think the whole point was to DELAY
Mulder rather than kill him. Because if they did want to kill him, the guy
must've been a better shot than THAT. Mulder's a point blank range and
all..can't miss.

>
> 13. Aliens have a knack for infesting Scully with... whatever strikes their
> fancy

Yah, with their alien goo.

> 14. The alien mothership features standard bad guy security in that it is
> completely ineffective at actually securing much of anything. Mulder
> manages to not only sneak onboard but leave with Scully

Mulder is a talented man ;) And Scully's in trouble as usual [sigh]

>
> 18. Handing someone a dead bee in a jar has deep meaning beyond the
> obvious, "Hey! I killed a bee! And put it in this jar!" I'm guessing here
> but as far as can be told that bee saved the X-files by scaring the shit
> out of grown people who are ostensibly top ranking Justice Department
> Officials...

I think i responded to this already, but I the bee i think has some sort of
evidence of the alien virus. i think.

>
> Look, other than "The Truman Show" and "Out of Sight", which was DAMN GOOD
> btw, this is one of the best movies I've seen all year. That is so very,
> very sad.
>

> P&SC
> ...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying
>
>

I thought this movie [the x-files] was really cooool. Huge plot holes that any
die-hard Phile like me can see, but it certainly was entertaining. For me,
anyway. well worth my triple trip to the theater :)

-lOiS lAnE
trust no one

[Robert St. James]

jenroses wrote in message ...

:>:SINCE WHEN IS THE X-FILES ABOUT LOGICAL SENSE???????

:>:
:>:<whew>
:>
:>Heh.
:>
:>Sorry, but the irony was too rich.
:>
:ROFL!
:
:Ya got me.... I've been saying the same thing all day, while trying to
:explain to people that it actually did mostly make sense if you can get
:your mind on the same track as CC.
:JenRose - Haven

Heh.

Actually, I find the best approach is to completely suspend my disbelief and
just enjoy it as pure entertainment the first time around. Then we see if it can
stand up to analysis. The plot holes don't bother me. The central "aliens" premise
does. Much as I try to figure out why CC has abandoned the central ambiguity
of the X-Files (do aliens exist...whoa, I guess so) I just don't get it. From here,
it looks like he's sacrificed a very good character-based drama for a very average
Science Fiction show. So I was disappointed.

But somebody has got to fight the nit-pickers who assume they understand the
plot better than the creator so gimme a slop-bucket of black oil and I'll start splattering
people!

Starting with this damned Bees/Chips thing which is growing to truly ridiculous proportions.

[jenroses]

I'm working on a fairly lengthy post right now (will probably post
tomorrow) titled "The Price of Realism".

Fundamental theory: all our new special effects possiblities and
information gathering has sapped us of the ability to simply sit back
and enjoy a *story* in it's own right, without trying to apply the
outside "rules" to it.

Fairy tales fall apart if you try to nitpick them. So do fables. Myths
are decidedly "paranormal", and legends are hyperbole archetyped.

But...

THEY ARE STILL GOOD STORIES.

So I try to put on my "tell me a story!" ears (can you tell I have a 5
year old?) for things like The X-Files, which is not about reality and
never has been. Somehow in its lack of reality it hits closer to home
than NYPD Blue ever will.

JenRose - Haven
The X-Philes Storytelling Forum
http://www.dejanews.com/group/dejanews.members.arts.jenrose.xphiles-stor
ytelling
If the line wraps, make sure you copy the whole thing to your browser or
it won't work.

<http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jenrose/shirt.htm>
_________________________________________________________________

"Complex systems thrive at the thin edge of chaos."
__________________________________________________________________

Any discussion of conversational tactics can be elaborated at:

http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html

Robert St. James wrote in message

<6n7eb6$e6n$1...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>...

[Fred G. Sanford]

> c)If you are stuck on an Antarctic ice field, and are wanted by a
> shadowny conspiracy that has tried to kill you many times, you can
> STILL somehow leave the Antarctic and return to Washington.

The Sydicate didnt try to kill Mulder many times. Theyve continously kept
him alive, even saved his ailing mother in "Herrenvolk".

[Fred G. Sanford]

> And help me out here, people. Am I just being a crank when I wonder why
> the Conspiracy hasn't tried a little harder to rub out our friend Spooky
> over the last few years? Is there a reason why they've decided to let him
> live, or is this just one of the questions we don't ask in order to
> preserve the series? (This is not a sarcastic question -- I'm really
> curious if, as an occasional viewer, I'm missing something about his
> relationship to the Conspiracy.)

WMM says in the movie "Kill Mulder, and we risk turning one man's quest into a crusade." Also CSM
claims to be Samantha's father and could be Mulder's as well, There's a longer answer but I'm tired
right now, maybe Ill post tomorrow.

[Fred G. Sanford]

Scott Mendelson wrote:

> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> >
> > So this bee homed in on Scully's chip... and waited. And waited. And waited
> > some more. It then felt the arousal rising within her and decided, "This
> > just won't do." and stung her then. Is that what you're saying? It's so
> > simple! How could I have missed it!?
> >

The bee could have been robotic, like the robot cockroaches in the episode "War of
the Coprophages."

[Robert St. James]

jenroses wrote in message ...

:I'm working on a fairly lengthy post right now (will probably post

:tomorrow) titled "The Price of Realism".

Should be interesting. Thomas Wolfe once commented that
all great American novels are in essence, works of realism.
At least I think it was Thomas Wolfe. You could extend his
comment to American works of art in general, which the X-Files
certainly is.

:Fundamental theory: all our new special effects possiblities and

:information gathering has sapped us of the ability to simply sit back
:and enjoy a *story* in it's own right, without trying to apply the
:outside "rules" to it.

I think you'll find this a difficult position to argue. Star Wars, for
example was pretty screwy and had one very large plot hole in the
side of the Death Star. Didn't detract from my enjoying the movie.
I think the nit-picking is a necessary process *from within the framework
of the X-Files*. Most of the complaints I've read have to do with internal
inconsistencies rather than lack of Real World credulity. And FTF did
have a lot of continuity problems.

:
:Fairy tales fall apart if you try to nitpick them. So do fables. Myths

:are decidedly "paranormal", and legends are hyperbole archetyped.

Actually, the good ones don't. Shakespeare's Mid-Summer Night's Dream
is a prime example of a fairy tale which has been analyzed in unbelievable
depth. The final verdict: it's a pretty damn good story. Likewise the mythology
of the Bible has been nit-picked by generations of nit-pickers. The verdict:
for all its contradictions and inconsistencies, it's still pretty inspiring and often
soars to literary heights that few writers in our own age of Realism will ever reach.
Good works of art don't distintegrate on second viewing: they grow stronger.

:But...

:
:THEY ARE STILL GOOD STORIES.

But this is the fundamental problem with FTF, and one which is fair game
for criticism. This is not a very good story. Not terrible, but not as good
as PX/Red and Black. I know that you're trying to stand up for your show,
and I think that the Realism has robbed us of our imagination is a valid argument,
especially in the days of newspaper-article experts and spot analysis of complex
subjects. I just wish the movie had been better in order to make a stronger case.
You're going at it from the point of view that it was a good movie that's being unfairly
ripped whereas I see it as a so-so movie that's getting worked for its failings *as
a story.*

:
:So I try to put on my "tell me a story!" ears (can you tell I have a 5

:year old?) for things like The X-Files, which is not about reality and
:never has been. Somehow in its lack of reality it hits closer to home
:than NYPD Blue ever will.
:
:JenRose - Haven

One of the reasons I really got into the early eps of S1-3 (via videotape) was because
some of the aspects of the Conspiracy didn't seem so far-fetched, that these were
eps about a very near, very possible future, albeit more than a little bit paranoid, but hey,
if a secret government were planning on eradicating the Earth's population via genetic
warfare, I'd be pretty paranoid too. The X-Files presented an alternate reality which was
not only compelling, but also very plausible. I feel like there's been a break with that plausibility
in favor of pure sci-fi fantasy, some of which doesn't appear to be logically consistent with
the established X-Universe.

Phew. Damn, that was a lot of typing. Anyway, good luck on the essay and its been
fun to argue this with you. There's times I want to put on my "tell me a story" ears too.

[Brian John Wright]

: >4. To prevent a plague from highly contagious corpses put them in the

: >middles of a population center then blow them up. Don't incinerate them or
: >anything. That would leave no evidence of any kind.

It's my understanding that the building demolition was to
disguise the deaths of the five (well, four) dead by making it
appear that they died from the building collapsing on them (I mean,
if you find a corpse in said building's ruins, how many questions
are people going to ask about just how it died?).

Surely, there had to be better ways to go about it, though.

-Brian J. Wright

"There's a fine line between clever and stupid."
-Spinal Tap

http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3957/brian.html

[Brian John Wright]

Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:

: I don't care if they went in their with the intention of selling Mary Kay

: products at a fabulous discount that everyone should have, smart people
: don't charge, shuffle or allow themselves to be dragged into dank, musty
: caves that evil creatures regularly reside in. It's a rule.

Uh...there's a reason why the terms "Neanderthal" and "Cro-
Magnon" are used as insults to mock one's intellectual capacity :)

--

[Franklin Hummel]

In article <OzjB#gvo9GA.166@upnetnews05>,
jenroses <jenr...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
>Get the novelization. It's dry, but explains a lot.

A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.

-- Franklin Hummel [ hum...@world.std.com ]
--
====================================================================
* NecronomiCon, 4th Edition: The Cthulhu Mythos Convention *
August 1999, Providence, RI * Guests: Fred Chappell & T.E.D. Klein
Visit our web site at: http://www.necropress.com/necronomicom

[Ed Dravecky III]

Franklin Hummel (hum...@world.std.com) wrote:
> jenroses <jenr...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >Get the novelization. It's dry, but explains a lot.
>
> A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.

Well, except "2001: A Space Odyssey"...
--
Ed Dravecky III <*>
dshe...@netcom.com

[tfre...@cgaus.com]

In article <6n6im6$hs7$1...@supernews.com>,
"Lord Kinbote" <kahlil @asan.com> wrote:
>
>
> tfre...@cgaus.com wrote in message

[snippage]

> >So, you are suggesting that the gestation only began after Mulder introduced
> >the vaccine to their system? I think you are confused. At least some of the
> >people were in cold storage because the process had already begun and the
> >cold temperatures were the only way to prevent more of the Alien-esque
> >creatures from bursting out into the world.
>
> I think that the gestation happed really, really fast. About as fast as
> "Leonard Betts" produced a new version of himself in the episode of the same
> name. It may not seem "realistic," but since we're talking about the
> X-files here, and we've already seen similar stuff happen really fast. The
> only reason why the fireman's alien took so long to gestate was because he
> was kept at sub-freezing temperatures (-2C), yet the alien still gestated
> and was able to break free. I still think that, as far as the Conspiracy
> knew, that was just a slave ship.

And the people held in suspended animation were kept at warmer temps?

I don't think so. At least some of those folks were already infected and
gestation was occurring before Mulder introduced the vaccine.

Tracy Freeling

[steven daniel hilberg]

"Robert St. James" <stj...@mail.rjames.com> writes:
>No sh*t. The final Tunisia scene cracked me up too. I liked it, because
>it was so completely ridiculous that it made perfect sense. Let's see,
>where, oh where in the world can we hide this big ol f*cking spaceship...
>I know, right out in the middle of the Tunisian Desert where it will stick

>out like a nun in a whorehouse! Oh, and on top of that, let's dress Strughold
>up like one of the Nazi's from Indiana Jones while we're at it and try to frighten
>him with a telegram saying the X-Files have been reopened. But I think CC
>was winking at us with this one, by calling the place "Tatoouine" which is,
>in addition to being a city in Tunisia, also a location in Star Wars

> "Tatooine is a desert planet on the galactic frontier, home to Tusken Raiders, Jawas, and
>many alien species who stop through the remote spaceports on their way through Outer Rim
>hyperspace trade routes. Tatooine's few cities house a variety of galactic flotsam, and offer
>both refuge and danger to visitors from outside. "

>http://www.starwars.com/locations/tatooine/

Actually, it is the other way around. Tattooine was named after the place in
the Tunisian desert where Lucas filmed the shots for Star Wars.

--
Steve Hilberg <Necromancer> Professional Writer-in-Training
<hil...@students.uiuc.edu> CCSO Site Consultant
<JustinM...@battle.net> If I spoke for CCSO, I would be making
more than five bucks an hour, get it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And if He ever suffered, it was me who did His crying...."
-- Concrete Blonde, "Tomorrow Wendy"

[steven daniel hilberg]

"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> writes:
>Jun Yan wrote
>>C.K. Chesterton (sp?) once said in a mystery story that the best way of
>>hiding a corpse is to hide it in a thousand corpse on a battle field.
>>Well, same principle apply to hiding anything.

>Yes it does. It does work here. You do not blow up a building to hide the
>death of five people and kill only one other person. Only 6 people died in
>that explosion. You can't hide people among six. It's mathematically
>impossible.

> If you want to hide a
>>corn field, where do you hide it?
>In Iowa, with the rest of the corn.

I think the problem is that they wanted the corn isolated from other fields so
that the 'virus' would not spread into the general food supply. Since the
fields we saw were all in the middle of nowhere, that would seem to support
that idea....hence also why you couldn't put them in Iowa.

[ste...@access.digex.net]

IIRC, Lizard once noted that "The Pointy-Haired Man" sounds like a nom de
guerre of one of the Consortium leaders. That would explain why it's so hard
to discern the logic behind their actions.... :-)

[James Nicoll]

In article <6n7r88$j...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,

Brian John Wright <bjwr...@acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>Plain and Simple Cronan (cro...@DeathsDoor.com) wrote:
>
>: I don't care if they went in their with the intention of selling Mary Kay
>: products at a fabulous discount that everyone should have, smart people
>: don't charge, shuffle or allow themselves to be dragged into dank, musty
>: caves that evil creatures regularly reside in. It's a rule.
>
> Uh...there's a reason why the terms "Neanderthal" and "Cro-
>Magnon" are used as insults to mock one's intellectual capacity :)

Which is odd, given that Neandertals had a better EQ than modern
humans and Cro Magnons are very similar to modern humans.

Since it took 10's of millenia for us to wipe out Neandertals
(Unlike the Beotuk or the Tasmanians, who were the same species as us
but with grossly inferior toolkits and immune systems) any advantage
we had over them must have been marginal. That's if we *did* wipe
them out, as opposed to climate change doing them in.

Where those Neandertals in Texas? What the hell were Neandertals
doing in the New World? I thought they didn't go much further east than
the closer bits of Asia.

James Nicoll
--
"That wasn't a come-up. *This* is a come-on."
"Ew. Ew, yuck."
"Sorry, it wasn't supposed to involve so much saliva."

[gal...@hotmail.com]

In article <6n5m89$mgi$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>,
"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>
> 2. The inhabitants of North Central Texas haven't changed much in the last
> 35,000 years

Oh yes.

100. Rather than destroying evidence completely, cause a huge explosion which
attracts a lot of attention and does not completely destroy the evidence.

101. So now the black oil doesn't even need an bodily orface to get in? It
just goes through the pores in the soles of the feet? Have they lowered the
SAE 10W40 rating?

102. When using military helicopters to search for personnel DO NOT USE the
Heat Sensitive IR Camera if the plot of the movie requires the search to fail
(also do not search for nearby parked cars).

103. Alien-trained honey bee's can be taught to seek out specific prey and
then hide and wait for the proper dramatic moment.

104. The shadowy conspirators such as the well-manicured man know that Mulder
can't be killed because he's got a popular tv series on Fox.

105. Being killed and eaten from the inside out is much worse than simply
being turned into a mindless drone for the rest of your life. Heck, you
wouldn't want that for your kids.

106. Alien ships have drain and vent pipes that you can crawl through when
necessary.

107. Huge slobbering carnivorous aliens with huge teeth and claws are very
useful for something. We just don't know what.

108. When the gestation time of a parasitic alien lifeform is unknown, just
keep it cool and check on it occasionally.

109. Rather than waiting for someone to kill you, just get in your car and
blow yourself up.

110. Beware the newly introduced bottles of corn oil on your grociers shelves.

111. Mulder had a satellite-cell phone in the SnowCat.

[John R Stobo]

On 29 Jun 1998, James Nicoll wrote:
>
> Where those Neandertals in Texas? What the hell were Neandertals
> doing in the New World? I thought they didn't go much further east than
> the closer bits of Asia.
>
> James Nicoll

I watched that scene closely because of the date and it looked to
me as if they were Indians/Native Americans, wearing a lot of fur and long
hair, although the poor lighting helped obscure them.
The interesting thing here is that by *most* recent historical
accounts humans didn't reach the Americas for another 20,000 years,
although there are some pre-historians and archeologists who cling to an
older date of settlement. In 35K BC they'd still be living in mid-Siberia.
But then the joke involving the switch between the two time periods would
be lost as well as the symmetry between beginning and ending the movie in
snow.

----jack----

[jenroses]

Robert St. James wrote in message

<6n7k5e$h5k$1...@news0-alterdial.uu.net>...

>jenroses wrote in message ...
>:I'm working on a fairly lengthy post right now (will probably post
>:tomorrow) titled "The Price of Realism".
>
>Should be interesting. Thomas Wolfe once commented that
>all great American novels are in essence, works of realism.
>At least I think it was Thomas Wolfe. You could extend his
>comment to American works of art in general, which the X-Files
>certainly is.

Since I haven't read Wolfe, I think I'll stick to my own thoughts on the
subject..<G>

>
>:Fundamental theory: all our new special effects possiblities and
>:information gathering has sapped us of the ability to simply sit back
>:and enjoy a *story* in it's own right, without trying to apply the
>:outside "rules" to it.
>
>I think you'll find this a difficult position to argue. Star Wars, for
>example was pretty screwy and had one very large plot hole in the
>side of the Death Star. Didn't detract from my enjoying the movie.
>I think the nit-picking is a necessary process *from within the
framework
>of the X-Files*. Most of the complaints I've read have to do with
internal
>inconsistencies rather than lack of Real World credulity. And FTF did
>have a lot of continuity problems.
>

See, this is the thing... I see some internal inconsistancies, but the
most significant gripes tend to do with "That couldn't happen in the
real world" arguments.

>:
>:Fairy tales fall apart if you try to nitpick them. So do fables. Myths
>:are decidedly "paranormal", and legends are hyperbole archetyped.
>
>Actually, the good ones don't. Shakespeare's Mid-Summer Night's Dream
>is a prime example of a fairy tale which has been analyzed in
unbelievable
>depth. The final verdict: it's a pretty damn good story. Likewise the
mythology
>of the Bible has been nit-picked by generations of nit-pickers. The
verdict:
>for all its contradictions and inconsistencies, it's still pretty
inspiring and often
>soars to literary heights that few writers in our own age of Realism
will ever reach.
>Good works of art don't distintegrate on second viewing: they grow
stronger.
>

MY POINT....... My second viewing of FTF was a lot more enjoyable than
the first one. To tell you the truth, out of the five times I've seen
it, my absolute fave was the fourth one. Didn't matter that I'd seen it
three times already, I still enjoyed the heck out of it. I was watching
it for different things in the fifth viewing, deliberately pulling back
from enjoying the story to look at nipicks... guess what? I still ended
up absorbed, and still jumped when Mulder fell through the ice. The more
I see the movie, read the book, etc... the more I enjoy this movie.

>:But...
>:
>:THEY ARE STILL GOOD STORIES.
>
>But this is the fundamental problem with FTF, and one which is fair
game
>for criticism. This is not a very good story. Not terrible, but not as
good
>as PX/Red and Black. I know that you're trying to stand up for your
show,
>and I think that the Realism has robbed us of our imagination is a
valid argument,
>especially in the days of newspaper-article experts and spot analysis
of complex
>subjects. I just wish the movie had been better in order to make a
stronger case.
>You're going at it from the point of view that it was a good movie
that's being unfairly
>ripped whereas I see it as a so-so movie that's getting worked for its
failings *as
>a story.*
>

That's just it.... I'm NOT trying to "just stand up for my show."
Schitzogeny sucked, and I'll be the first to admit it. I'd say that the
X-Files makes it for me about 70% of the time. I've paid to see FTF five
times because I *want* to see the story again. There are very few
episodes that I'll watch five times, and they're free.

The reason I'm "defending" the movie is becuase many people judge it
after the first viewing to be "poor". I say it gets better after repeat
veiwings, because there are so many things that people just don't see on
the first viewing, and most people enter the first viewing with a lot of
preconceptions and expectations.

This movie was NOT what I expected.... and that made the first viewing
hard. The second time there were no "expectations" and I enjoyed it very
much, so much that I have gone back many times.

If I'd only bought my ticket for one showing, I never would have bought
the second ticket. I'm so glad that the way it worked out, I bought them
at the same time, because I would have missed the fact that this movie
gets so much better the second time out.

It was not what I expected. It was different, and once I let go of my
attachments to my expectations, it was better than I expected. (One of
the biggest blocks to my enjoying the first viewing was the fact that I
kept trying to figure out when the trailer sequences were, and the fact
that I'd been spoiled more than I wanted to be, and was crabby about
that. The second viewing, neither of those barriers were relevant.)

<tipping my hat> Thanks.

JenRose - Haven
The X-Philes Storytelling Forum
http://www.dejanews.com/group/dejanews.members.arts.jenrose.xphiles-stor
ytelling

If the line wraps, make sure you copy the whole URL to your browser. IF
you end up at x-philes-sto
there won't be any messages.
__________________________
The Shirts Are Online

[jenroses]

I don't need the novelization to explain the movie. I enjoyed the movie
before I had the novelization.

HOWEVER.... A lot of people seem to need things spelled out for them,
and the novelization does that more than the movie does.

Franklin Hummel wrote in message ...
>In article <OzjB#gvo9GA.166@upnetnews05>,

>jenroses <jenr...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>Get the novelization. It's dry, but explains a lot.
>
>
> A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.
>
>

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Fred G. Sanford wrote

>WMM says in the movie "Kill Mulder, and we risk turning one man's quest
>into a crusade." Also CSM claims to be Samantha's father and could be
>Mulder's as well, There's a longer answer but I'm tired right now, maybe
>Ill post tomorrow.

Brain dead's more like it.

But hey, you may be onto something, Fred. Don't kill him because all his
friends who don't have access to his resources or familial connections will
of course bring down the conspiracy but DO blow up a major metropolitan
building in downtown Dallas, killing 200 or so people. That won't attract
attention at all... Maybe he's really a robot...yeah. That's it, Mulder and
the bees are BOTH robots... and neither can sting Scully.

P&SC
...this gets simpler and more sensible all the time...

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Fred G. Sanford wrote

>The bee could have been robotic, like the robot cockroaches in the episode
>"War of the Coprophages."

That would make much more sense. They're growing the corn to feed its
pollen to the ROBOTIC BEES!!!

Damn it, No wonder the Conspiracy has stayed hidden so long. Their plots
come straight from old episodes of Jose and the Pussycats.

It's so simple I should be slapped for not seeing it in the first place.

P&SC

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

lois...@mcione.com wrote

>First off, I'd like to say WOW that you actually saw the movie, because in
>earlier posts you said you walked out of the theater and were intending to
>stay as far away as possible from FTF. Second, damn right!! Why on earth
>doesn Scully always hafta be the damsel in distress?? And I thought her
>clothes were very nice :)

Nah. But I only paid to see one. I didn't actually walk out of the movie
early. And I still recommend Mulan.

And my sister recommends Dr. Dolittle.

P&SC

[Tim Norton]

jenroses wrote in message <#EXN8B5o9GA.264@upnetnews05>...

>I don't need the novelization to explain the movie. I enjoyed the movie
>before I had the novelization.

I hope so if you've seen it five times. I bet on the sixth viewing you will
no longer jump when Mulder falls through the ice.

>
>HOWEVER.... A lot of people seem to need things spelled out for them,
>and the novelization does that more than the movie does.

So, let's insult those people who have never watched the X-Files before, or
those fans who are a bit younger.

Many of us didn't require multiple viewing to get it or enjoy the film. No
reason to imply one is superior to another because they have questions.

If the book is a bit clearer and nonfans didn't get the entire
film...perhaps the movie needed to be a bit more like the book. It is a
pretty intricate tale and the movie just skimmed over many of the details
that fans are familiar with and nonfans have know clue about. Heck, the guy
sitting next to me kept asking his wife who all of these characters where.
Any chance they could have explained the three geeks (the Lone Gunmen to you
and me) to the audience? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film. So, no
"I'm a bigger fan than you because....." responses.

Tim

[Tim Norton]

[Tim Norton]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
<6n8vk3$92u$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
>Brian John Wright wrote

>>: I don't care if they went in their with the intention of selling Mary
>>: Kay products at a fabulous discount that everyone should have, smart
>>: people don't charge, shuffle or allow themselves to be dragged into
>dank,
>>: musty caves that evil creatures regularly reside in. It's a rule.
>>
>> Uh...there's a reason why the terms "Neanderthal" and "Cro-
>>Magnon" are used as insults to mock one's intellectual capacity :)
>
>

>Only humans are stupid. Animals, even to a limited extent other higher
>primates, cannot be stupid. They act and react on instinct. Instinct very
>rarely leads one into situation for which there is no positive tangible
>benefit.

Unless it is a trap.

[Tim Norton]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message

<6n901f$bb5$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...

Talk about cliched flicks. Disney has the cornerstone. Where was it
written that a hero needed two smart assed sidekicks? It was nice animation
and had great moments. The story, however, was repetitive of about a dozen
Disney films before it. It would have been more daring if they attempted it
as a nonmusical. Disney is all formulary.

>
>And my sister recommends Dr. Dolittle.

How old is she? Does she really enjoy flatulance jokes? Eddie has a thing
for the butt...which is not only seen in this film, but also reflected in
his recent arrest. Both films have Eddie connected to them...might see a
trend here. So, if X was brought back and played by Eddie Murphy making
obscure Jesse Jackson references and many fart/sticking things in his butt
jokes....the X-Files would shoot to the top of your list?

Tim

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Tim Norton wrote

>>Nah. But I only paid to see one. I didn't actually walk out of the movie
>>early. And I still recommend Mulan.
>
>
>Talk about cliched flicks.

The "X-files"?

Disney has the cornerstone. Where was it
>written that a hero needed two smart assed sidekicks?

When you're making an animated film for kids.

It was nice animation
>and had great moments. The story, however, was repetitive of about a
dozen
>Disney films before it.

Not really. The only thing that can be honestly said about it and the other
spat of Disney movies is that it has a heroine who saves her world from
destruction. Beyond that it's certainly the best Disney movie in a long
while.

It would have been more daring if they attempted it
>as a nonmusical. Disney is all formulary.

The musical numbers were dry and unimaginative. So? They made up but a
fraction of the movie. On the whole it was well-written and well played
out.

>>And my sister recommends Dr. Dolittle.
>
>How old is she?

8

Does she really enjoy flatulance jokes? Eddie has a thing
>for the butt...which is not only seen in this film, but also reflected in
>his recent arrest. Both films have Eddie connected to them...might see a
>trend here. So, if X was brought back and played by Eddie Murphy making
>obscure Jesse Jackson references and many fart/sticking things in his butt
>jokes....the X-Files would shoot to the top of your list?

Eddie Murphy was easily my favorite part of Mulan. That's irrelevant,
however. I haven't seen "Dr. Dolittle." As I said. My sister, a startlingly
intelligent young lady, enjoyed the film immensely and she has always hated
'children's films'. For the most part she, having grown up in house
dominated by her three older brothers, has taken a liking to scifi action
movies. So when she says she likes Dolittle I not only take her at her word
but will see it myself at the earliest opportunity.

Now, I'm not sure where you're going with the Eddie Murphy in X-files
question. If you mean it humorously, fine. (It certainly strikes me as a
thing no sane person would ask lest they meant it in jest.) If you mean it
seriously, well, let's just say that Murphy is a much better actor than
David D. He proved that a while back. That, coupled with his superior Box
Office drawing power would certainly have insured the movie did better than
it's current pathetic drop off.

P&SC
...and my sister got more of the in jokes in "Mars Attacks" than I did

[J]

[Please excuse my format mangling]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message

<6n6u2j$ki8$1...@camel25.mindspring.com>...
>
> [snip]
>
>>In the season finale, Mulder speculates that all humans have >>been
genetically altered in the distant past.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> I don't think the virus contains
>>the monster. The virus is the trigger for the altered DNA that is within
>>each person. Again, this wasn't stated in the movie, so it's harder to
>>understand if you look at the movie in a vacuum.
>

"Why, it's a simple German head cold, any English school boy could catch
it!"

In other words, I speculate thusly and again: Chris Carter is leading up to
the alien virus as a/the source of human civilization ala _2001_. Speaking
of _2001_ . . .

BTW, how can a film with so many plot holes have a vacuum?

>So the virus is exactly the opposite of what that English Guy said it was.
>It's in fact like the obelisk in 2001 and it makes us into Dave Bowman-like
>star children only
>they're really ugly star children who enjoy slicing people up.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

Sooo, the aliens are all Todd Bridges' clones? Man, you are out there, Mr.
Cronan.

>
> [snip]
>
>P&SC
>....what could I have been thinking to question Carter's genius?
>
>

Indeed. :)

J
sali...@no-spam.primary.net
(for sending E-mail - which one of these is not like the other?)

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Ed Dravecky III wrote

>> A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.
>

>Well, except "2001: A Space Odyssey"...

I think the movie holds up extremely well on its own. The movie and the
book were written concurrently so I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps
you could explain?

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

J wrote

>"Why, it's a simple German head cold, any English school boy could catch
>it!"

I LOVE THIS LINE! Where did it come from?

>In other words, I speculate thusly and again: Chris Carter is leading up
to
>the alien virus as a/the source of human civilization ala _2001_.
Speaking
>of _2001_ . . .

It's deep in a 'I watched this movie once and it was good. I think I'll do
that" sort of way.

>BTW, how can a film with so many plot holes have a vacuum?

In space, no one can hear you scream, "You are so full of shit!"

>>So the virus is exactly the opposite of what that English Guy said it
was.
>>It's in fact like the obelisk in 2001 and it makes us into Dave
Bowman-like
>>star children only
>>they're really ugly star children who enjoy slicing people up.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>
>Sooo, the aliens are all Todd Bridges' clones? Man, you are out there,
Mr.
>Cronan.

Let me see if I can go slightly further: I think the whole "Trust No One"
thing isn't actually a reference to the conspiracy. I believe it's in
reference to the fact that no one knows what the hell they're talking
about. Especially OB/GYNs who sneak up on FBI agents and pee in alleys with
them.

>>P&SC
>>....what could I have been thinking to question Carter's genius?
>
>Indeed. :)

It's scary how foolish I was.

[Fred G. Sanford]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:

> Fred G. Sanford wrote
>
> >WMM says in the movie "Kill Mulder, and we risk turning one man's quest
> >into a crusade." Also CSM claims to be Samantha's father and could be
> >Mulder's as well, There's a longer answer but I'm tired right now, maybe
> >Ill post tomorrow.
>
> Brain dead's more like it.
>
> But hey, you may be onto something, Fred. Don't kill him because all his
> friends who don't have access to his resources or familial connections will
> of course bring down the conspiracy

There are plenty of people who do. Most important is Skinner. Remember that
in "Paper Clip" he saw to it that a hundred Navajo indians knew the contents
of that digital tape which had all of the documents concerning the government's
plan to conceal the existence of E.T.'s. If Mulder were to be killed, all he
had to do was release the documents to the press and thats it: the conspiracy
is leaked and the truth is revealed. Got it Cronan?

--
Remove "SPAM" from e-mail address
for a successful reply.

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Fred G. Sanford wrote

> There are plenty of people who do. Most important is Skinner.

Kill him too. Slowly. Using untracable poison. Anyone feel bad about that?
Kill them too. The conspiracy was planning to blow up a building killing
hundreds, Kill 20 people to eliminate the threat in the FBI would end it.

Remember that
>in "Paper Clip" he saw to it that a hundred Navajo indians knew the
contents
>of that digital tape which had all of the documents concerning the
government's
>plan to conceal the existence of E.T.'s. If Mulder were to be killed, all
he
>had to do was release the documents to the press and thats it: the
conspiracy
>is leaked and the truth is revealed. Got it Cronan?

No. And neither do you. It's all ready been established that the conspiracy
can wipe a guys memory. They can pretty much control the media and anyone
who doesn't feel like standing up for the American Way will give in under
threat of evisceration. So there's no really good reason not to wipe out
all these threats. Blow up part of the FBI building. Burn down their
houses. Kill the Lone Gunmen. If they've left any information around,
threaten and cajole he people who have it. They're not fanatics like
Mulder. They'll give. Point to Mulder and say, "Look what happened to him.
And he was better lookin'." By the time you're done, over the course of a
year or two of course, there's no one left. Simple huh? A few explosives
here, a gunshot here, some poison there and the conspiracy is safely
anonymous again. WHOOPEE

But that's how I'd do it. Thank GOD Mulder doesn't have to face off against
me or anyone else with the brains god gave most rodents or the X-files
would have been closed quite some time ago.

P&SC
...spooky Mulder's already be a spook if I had my way
...thank goodness I don't or you'd have nothing to latch onto!

[Tim Norton]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
<6n949b$nrp$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...

>
>Tim Norton wrote
>>>Nah. But I only paid to see one. I didn't actually walk out of the movie
>>>early. And I still recommend Mulan.
>>
>>
>>Talk about cliched flicks.
>
>The "X-files"?

How so? Is it the show or the movie you dislike?

>
> Disney has the cornerstone. Where was it
>>written that a hero needed two smart assed sidekicks?
>
>When you're making an animated film for kids.

I don't know. I tend to give kids more credit.

>
> It was nice animation
>>and had great moments. The story, however, was repetitive of about a
>dozen
>>Disney films before it.
>
>Not really. The only thing that can be honestly said about it and the other
>spat of Disney movies is that it has a heroine who saves her world from
>destruction. Beyond that it's certainly the best Disney movie in a long
>while.

Depends on your tastes. It was traditional Disney. They will not stray far
from the formula as long as it keeps making money. Sure, their films are
"cute", but I hope that Disney decides to start taking some risks. The
success of shows like The Simpsons, South Park and King of the Hill prove
that there is a market for adult oriented cartoons.

>
> It would have been more daring if they attempted it
>>as a nonmusical. Disney is all formulary.
>
>
>The musical numbers were dry and unimaginative. So?

So, that is boring. For adults and children alike.

They made up but a
>fraction of the movie.

Seemed like more.

On the whole it was well-written and well played
>out.

I'm not criticizing Disney's Mulan. It is excellent children's fodder and
some adults will chuckle here and there (I said before it had some excellent
sequences.)
X-Files on the other hand, is for a more sophisticated and mature audience.

>
>>>And my sister recommends Dr. Dolittle.
>>
>>How old is she?
>
>8

As, I assume, most of the audience who will enjoy this film. No insults.
When I was 8 I enjoyed poo poo jokes too.

>
> Does she really enjoy flatulance jokes? Eddie has a thing
>>for the butt...which is not only seen in this film, but also reflected in
>>his recent arrest. Both films have Eddie connected to them...might see a
>>trend here. So, if X was brought back and played by Eddie Murphy making
>>obscure Jesse Jackson references and many fart/sticking things in his butt
>>jokes....the X-Files would shoot to the top of your list?
>
>
>Eddie Murphy was easily my favorite part of Mulan. That's irrelevant,
>however. I haven't seen "Dr. Dolittle."

The reviews have been lack luster.

As I said. My sister, a startlingly
>intelligent young lady, enjoyed the film immensely and she has always hated
>'children's films'.

Not questioning your sister's maturity. An 8 year old is expected to find a
rat farting funny.

For the most part she, having grown up in house
>dominated by her three older brothers, has taken a liking to scifi action
>movies.

Not so unusual for an child.

So when she says she likes Dolittle I not only take her at her word
>but will see it myself at the earliest opportunity.

Great. Me, I will stear clear based on the fact that I find Eddie's butt
humor sophmoric at best. Oh, what a laugh riot when two sheep enter his
office saying their "butt's hurt". Great humor for 8 year olds.

I counted last time the commercial for Doolittle came on....8 butt
references in a 30 second spot.

>
>Now, I'm not sure where you're going with the Eddie Murphy in X-files
>question. If you mean it humorously, fine. (It certainly strikes me as a
>thing no sane person would ask lest they meant it in jest.)

Sorry not to include smiley faces. I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

If you mean it
>seriously, well, let's just say that Murphy is a much better actor than
>David D. He proved that a while back.

With such outstanding performances in Beverly Hills Cop 3, The Golden Child
and Metro (just a few highlights in his carrer.) He might be a better
comedic actor, but as far dramatic acting goes, he has yet to prove himself.

That, coupled with his superior Box
>Office drawing power

Hmmmm...this is questionable. Maybe in 1985. His "comeback" did not occur
until after "The Nutty Professor". A remake.

would certainly have insured the movie did better than
>it's current pathetic drop off.

And, the amount a movie makes establishes its quality?

>...and my sister got more of the in jokes in "Mars Attacks" than I did

Another rotten movie, IMO. I found myself feeling sorry for the actors
involved. As sorry as one can feel for somebody making 1 million plus.

Tim

[J]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message

<6n94pr$qou$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...

>
>J wrote
>
>>"Why, it's a simple German head cold, any English school boy could catch
>>it!"
>
>I LOVE THIS LINE! Where did it come from?
>

The Firesign Theater's "The Giant Rat of Sumatra" (a hard-to-find item from
a unique group - I don't even own a copy of this one)

>
> [regretably, some snippage]

>
>Let me see if I can go slightly further: I think the
>whole "Trust No One"
>thing isn't actually a reference to the conspiracy.
>I believe it's in
>reference to the fact that no one knows what the hell they're >talking
about.

I think Leland Palmer is the Well-Manicured Man, but that's just me.

> Especially OB/GYNs who sneak up on FBI agents and pee in >alleys with
them.
>

And am I the only one who, when Martin Landau finally revealed his purpose
(so to speak) in coming out to the alley to initially talk with Mulder,
Landau's lines from other (better) films he's been in came flooding back
into my mind [paraphrasing]:
"'Don't get too close to people, you'll catch their oileans.'"
"The Cigarette-Smoking Man isn't worthy to smell my shit!"
[North by Northwest] "Sometimes the truth does taste like a mouthful of . .
." well, anyway. . .

Landau was also in _The Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island_, so maybe
I'm reading too much into this.

>>>P&SC
>>>....what could I have been thinking to question Carter's genius?
>>
>>Indeed. :)
>
>
>It's scary how foolish I was.
>
>

J

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Tim Norton wrote

>>When you're making an animated film for kids.
>
>I don't know. I tend to give kids more credit.

Smart ass sidekicks do give kids credit. They often make cultural
references that are the heart and soul of Disney's better fair. Like the
Genie in Aladdin. That's their job. To be comic relief. Like Scully.

>>Not really. The only thing that can be honestly said about it and the
other
>>spat of Disney movies is that it has a heroine who saves her world from
>>destruction. Beyond that it's certainly the best Disney movie in a long
>>while.
>
>Depends on your tastes. It was traditional Disney. They will not stray
far
>from the formula as long as it keeps making money.

So you preferred "Pocahontas", "Hunchback of Notre Dame" and "Hercules"? As
I just said, it wasn't particularly formulaic and you rebut this by saying,
"Yes it was so there!" Huh? Why was it formulaic? You've a heroine, a
villain and her winning in the end. I could say this is the same formula
X-files followed. Be more specific.

Sure, their films are
>"cute", but I hope that Disney decides to start taking some risks. The
>success of shows like The Simpsons, South Park and King of the Hill prove
>that there is a market for adult oriented cartoons.

No they don't. They prove that their is a market for cartoons that appeal
to both children and adults. South Park and The Simpsons, while having
substantial adult followings are still primarily kids shows. South Park may
be raunchy but most of the people watching it are early to late teens. I've
yet to actual see an adult oriented cartoon on American television other
than the animes on the Scifi Channel and Heavy Metal on cable.

>>The musical numbers were dry and unimaginative. So?
>
>So, that is boring. For adults and children alike.

And you have a point I assume?

>They made up but a
>>fraction of the movie.
>
>Seemed like more.

Again I ask you: so?
<snipped>

>X-Files on the other hand, is for a more sophisticated and mature
audience.

Any mature, sophisticated audience spent their time in the X-files movie
laughing rather heartily at it. Same with the TV series. Mature and
sophisticated are two of the last things the X-files will ever be. 'Out of
Sight' was fairly mature and made an attempt at something other than
convolution to simulate sophistry. (Notice the difference in the way the
two
movies handled the romantic story elements. One with class and a fair
amount of emotional involvement the other pandered to fans with silly
little teasers of what maybe. Guess which was which. To suggest that the
X-files, because is somehow more mature than Mulan just because Mulan has a
song here instead of bizarre conspiracies that make no real sense is the
height of fanboy lunacy.)

>>8
>
>As, I assume, most of the audience who will enjoy this film. No insults.
>When I was 8 I enjoyed poo poo jokes too.

Considering that the movie seems to be doing well across the board your
implication that it is nothing but poopoo jokes are seem baseless. And
you've not seen the film. You're basing your opinion on those of anonymous
reviewers.

>>Eddie Murphy was easily my favorite part of Mulan. That's irrelevant,
>>however. I haven't seen "Dr. Dolittle."
>
>The reviews have been lack luster.

And? So? I could give two shits what Siskel & Ebert think. They're reviews
almost always consist of quotes from the press packages.

>As I said. My sister, a startlingly
>>intelligent young lady, enjoyed the film immensely and she has always
hated
>>'children's films'.
>
>Not questioning your sister's maturity. An 8 year old is expected to find
>a rat farting funny.

Sometimes it is. The right actor can make anything funny.

>For the most part she, having grown up in house
>>dominated by her three older brothers, has taken a liking to scifi action
>>movies.
>
>Not so unusual for an child.

I'm assuming that somewhere in here you are going to reach an actual point.
I'd greatly appreciate it.

>So when she says she likes Dolittle I not only take her at her word
>>but will see it myself at the earliest opportunity.
>

>Great. Me, I will steer clear based on the fact that I find Eddie's butt

>humor sophmoric at best. Oh, what a laugh riot when two sheep enter his
>office saying their "butt's hurt". Great humor for 8 year olds.

You've repeated this point several times as though appealing to a younger
audience is somehow criminal and an immediate condemnation of the highest
order.

<snipped for space>

>If you mean it
>>seriously, well, let's just say that Murphy is a much better actor than
>>David D. He proved that a while back.
>
>With such outstanding performances in Beverly Hills Cop 3, The Golden
>Child and Metro (just a few highlights in his carrer.) He might be a
>better comedic actor, but as far dramatic acting goes, he has yet to
>prove himself.

With such outstanding performances as 48 Hours, which he made in his early
20's, The Nutty Professor, which several people suggested was Oscar worthy
simply because of the sheer number of characters he played effectively,
"The first two Beverly Hills Cop films and a few others. While David D. may
be a fangirl heart throb he's never been in anything that remotely
resembles a hit. Particularly the much hyped, poorly reviewed movies such
as "Playing God" and "Kalifornia".

>That, coupled with his superior Box
>>Office drawing power
>
>Hmmmm...this is questionable. Maybe in 1985. His "comeback" did not
>occur until after "The Nutty Professor". A remake.

Question it then. He simply has more Box Office appeal than David. Here,
let's compare the grosses of their last 4 films.

Metro: $45m
The Nutty Proffesor: $244.3m
Vampire in Brooklyn: 59.9m
Beverly Hills Cop 3: 75m
(worldwide grosses)

Playing God: 4m
Kalifornia: 2m
Ruby: 919,286
Beethoven: 59m(he was in this for 5 seconds, right?)

Now, Murphy's drawing power at the Box Office is better. And I'm not sure
what you mean by a comeback. He never really went away. Some of his best
films, "The Distinguished Gentleman" and "Harlem Nights" were way after
1985(a year in which he didn't make any movies that I know of, BTW) So go
ahead and question.

>would certainly have insured the movie did better than
>>it's current pathetic drop off.
>
>And, the amount a movie makes establishes its quality?

No. I simply said that Murphy playing Mulder would have made a lot more
money as evidenced by the X-files relatively poor showing.

>Another rotten movie, IMO. I found myself feeling sorry for the actors
>involved. As sorry as one can feel for somebody making 1 million plus.

"Mars Attacks" was an excellent satire/parody. And had one of the greatest
scenes in movie history(when those kids pick up the guns and kick ass for
the Secret Service. Hugely funny. Tim Burton has a certain genius that
requires
perversion to be fully appreciated..

P&SC
...where the hell is this going?

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Franklin Hummel wrote
>>Eddie Murphy was easily my favorite part of Mulan. [ text deleted ]
>
>
> I find it rather ironic Mr. Murphy has a voice role in a Disney
>movie about a transvestite. But, hey, that's me.

Hey, Frank. I had no idea you were funny.

P&SC
...really, I've always more thought of you as caustic and pithy

[deering]

Tim Norton (tno...@oklahoma.net) wrote:

: jenroses wrote in message <#EXN8B5o9GA.264@upnetnews05>...

: >I don't need the novelization to explain the movie. I enjoyed the movie
: >before I had the novelization.

: >HOWEVER.... A lot of people seem to need things spelled out for them,

: >and the novelization does that more than the movie does.

: So, let's insult those people who have never watched the X-Files before, or
: those fans who are a bit younger.

(sigh) Homes, around here that's been standard operating procedure for
longer than I care to remember. If someone
critcizes major plot holes or suggests that the
conspiracy stuff doesn't make sense, you can bet your last dollar that any
number of rabid ng folks will pull that "Oh, you just aren't smart enough
to get it," or "You don't understand artistic ambiguity," or some
snotty mess like that. People who spout attitudes like this are one of the
reasons XF fans have gotten a reputation for
being intolerant, as well as laughably gullible to anything Carter hands
out.

: Many of us didn't require multiple viewing to get it or enjoy the film. No

: reason to imply one is superior to another because they have questions.

One would think so. . .:PPPPP

: If the book is a bit clearer and nonfans didn't get the entire

: film...perhaps the movie needed to be a bit more like the book. It is a
: pretty intricate tale and the movie just skimmed over many of the details
: that fans are familiar with and nonfans have know clue about. Heck, the guy
: sitting next to me kept asking his wife who all of these characters where.
: Any chance they could have explained the three geeks (the Lone Gunmen to you
: and me) to the audience? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film. So, no
: "I'm a bigger fan than you because....." responses.

Oh, _no_, not the "I'm a bigger/more loyal/more discerning/more
appreciative fan than you" response!!! Arrrghghghghghghghghghgh!!!

C.
**

[jenroses]

Tim Norton wrote in message <6n90aa$78c$1...@supernews.com>...

>
>jenroses wrote in message <#EXN8B5o9GA.264@upnetnews05>...
>>I don't need the novelization to explain the movie. I enjoyed the
movie
>>before I had the novelization.
>

>I hope so if you've seen it five times. I bet on the sixth viewing you
will
>no longer jump when Mulder falls through the ice.
>
>>

>>HOWEVER.... A lot of people seem to need things spelled out for them,
>>and the novelization does that more than the movie does.
>
>
>So, let's insult those people who have never watched the X-Files
before, or
>those fans who are a bit younger.
>

>Many of us didn't require multiple viewing to get it or enjoy the film.
No
>reason to imply one is superior to another because they have questions.
>

I did not imply that. I have no problem with people having questions. In
fact, I'm working on an FAQ for the movie right now. And I didn't
suggest that people couldn't enjoy the film after only one veiwing. I
simply said that I enjoyed it more the second time around, suggesting
that people who *didn't* enjoy it because it left unanswered questions
might find it more enjoyable if they watched it again, and that those
who really want to know more than the movie tells might benefit from the
information the novelization provides.

<snip>

>and me) to the audience? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film. So,
no
>"I'm a bigger fan than you because....." responses.
>

>Tim

I'm not sure where you got that from. It's not what I intended, and I
don't think it's what I said.

[Franklin Hummel]

In article <6n949b$nrp$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>,

Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>
>Eddie Murphy was easily my favorite part of Mulan. [ text deleted ]

I find it rather ironic Mr. Murphy has a voice role in a Disney
movie about a transvestite. But, hey, that's me.

[lois...@mcione.com]

In article <6n901f$bb5$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>,

"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>

> lois...@mcione.com wrote
> >First off, I'd like to say WOW that you actually saw the movie, because in
> >earlier posts you said you walked out of the theater and were intending to
> >stay as far away as possible from FTF. Second, damn right!! Why on earth
> >doesn Scully always hafta be the damsel in distress?? And I thought her
> >clothes were very nice :)
>

> Nah. But I only paid to see one. I didn't actually walk out of the movie
> early. And I still recommend Mulan.
>

> And my sister recommends Dr. Dolittle.
>

> P&SC
>

Well that clears things up then ;)
Mulan was very good..better than disney's last coupla movies..

-lOiS laNe
The Truth Is Out There.

[mjohn...@yahoo.com]

In article <35974F61...@SPAM.yahoo.com>,
"Fred G. Sanford" <tra...@SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> > c)If you are stuck on an Antarctic ice field, and are wanted by a
> > shadowny conspiracy that has tried to kill you many times, you can
> > STILL somehow leave the Antarctic and return to Washington.
>
> The Sydicate didnt try to kill Mulder many times. Theyve continously kept
> him alive, even saved his ailing mother in "Herrenvolk".

We're talking about the movie here. They tried to kill Mulder twice before
the Antarctic. WMM told Mulder he'd been sent to kill him and Marin Landau's
character. And also when that ambulence driver SHOT MULDER IN THE HEAD. Pretty
obvious attempts, really.

Matt Johnson

[mjohn...@yahoo.com]

In article <35981AD4...@SPAM.yahoo.com>,

"Fred G. Sanford" <tra...@SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>

> Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> > Fred G. Sanford wrote
> >
> > >WMM says in the movie "Kill Mulder, and we risk turning one man's quest
> > >into a crusade." Also CSM claims to be Samantha's father and could be
> > >Mulder's as well, There's a longer answer but I'm tired right now, maybe
> > >Ill post tomorrow.
> >
> > Brain dead's more like it.
> >
> > But hey, you may be onto something, Fred. Don't kill him because all his
> > friends who don't have access to his resources or familial connections will
> > of course bring down the conspiracy
>

> There are plenty of people who do. Most important is Skinner. Remember that

> in "Paper Clip" he saw to it that a hundred Navajo indians knew the contents
> of that digital tape which had all of the documents concerning the government's
> plan to conceal the existence of E.T.'s. If Mulder were to be killed, all he
> had to do was release the documents to the press and thats it: the conspiracy
> is leaked and the truth is revealed. Got it Cronan?

Except that those documents didn't reveal anything of substance. If they had,
Mulder would have much more to go on in his investigations of the conspiracy.
But the documents were never even mentioned again, so they can't have been
too important... except as yet another excuse to keep Mulder alive.

[mjohn...@yahoo.com]

In article <6n6u51$krj$1...@camel25.mindspring.com>,

"Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>

> J wrote
>
> >>P&SC
> >>...go see "Out of Sight", George Clooney isn't annoying
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Really? What's George Clooney's head oscillation factor (in
> >bobs-per-minute)?
>
> I count two or three times in the whole movie. It is one of the most
> genuinely funny movies in a long while and much better on all counts than
> X-files.

I agree; "Out of Sight" was a damn good movie. Elmore Leonard's books make
great movies. (Remember "Get Shorty"?)

> The only other movie that I hope might be better is "Avengers" It
> looks to be the only actioner worth my time this summer.

I thought "The Mask of Zorro" looked promising, myself.

[Gareth Wilson]

James Nicoll wrote:
> Where those Neandertals in Texas? What the hell were Neandertals
> doing in the New World? I thought they didn't go much further east than
> the closer bits of Asia.

That's what they want you to think...:)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gareth Wilson
Christchurch
New Zealand

"Evil will triumph because Good is dumb."
-Cronan Thompson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[DB]

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:33:09 GMT, hum...@world.std.com (Franklin
Hummel) wrote:

>In article <OzjB#gvo9GA.166@upnetnews05>,
>jenroses <jenr...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>Get the novelization. It's dry, but explains a lot.

>
>
> A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.

The novel doesn't explain the movie. The movie explains itself quiet
well. In fact, the novel is nothing more than the script in novel
form.

[James Keivom]

Having watched X-Files for several seasons, I have to admit I didn't
understand many of the plot holes in the movie. Many of the people here
give reasons as to why things happened in the movie(eg. fly waits for the
perfect moment) but as Roger Ebert once said, you have to use material
that is provided in the movie to back up your statement.

i still have many questions but people have already beat me to the punch.

In article <6n90aa$78c$1...@supernews.com>,

Tim Norton <tno...@oklahoma.net> wrote:
>
>jenroses wrote in message <#EXN8B5o9GA.264@upnetnews05>...
>>I don't need the novelization to explain the movie. I enjoyed the movie
>>before I had the novelization.
>
>I hope so if you've seen it five times. I bet on the sixth viewing you will
>no longer jump when Mulder falls through the ice.
>
>>
>>HOWEVER.... A lot of people seem to need things spelled out for them,
>>and the novelization does that more than the movie does.
>
>
>So, let's insult those people who have never watched the X-Files before, or
>those fans who are a bit younger.
>
>Many of us didn't require multiple viewing to get it or enjoy the film. No
>reason to imply one is superior to another because they have questions.
>

>If the book is a bit clearer and nonfans didn't get the entire
>film...perhaps the movie needed to be a bit more like the book. It is a
>pretty intricate tale and the movie just skimmed over many of the details
>that fans are familiar with and nonfans have know clue about. Heck, the guy
>sitting next to me kept asking his wife who all of these characters where.
>Any chance they could have explained the three geeks (the Lone Gunmen to you

[Bryan Lambert]

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:31:53 -0500, "Tim Norton" <tno...@oklahoma.net> wrote:

Regarding Mulan
>
>Talk about cliched flicks. Disney has the cornerstone. Where was it
>written that a hero needed two smart assed sidekicks? It was nice animation

>and had great moments. The story, however, was repetitive of about a dozen

>Disney films before it. It would have been more daring if they attempted it

>as a nonmusical. Disney is all formulary.

Yet, somehow, Mulan managed to fuck with its parent corporation's dominant
paradigm a lot more than X-Files did with ITS universe's. For Disney, and this
is important, here, FOR DISNEY, Mulan was fairly groundbreaking and innovative
in its treatment of a female hero and the roles of the sidekicks.

X-Files, on the other hand, followed its dominant paradigm to a T, where it
wasn't backtracking. The cell-phones, the aged back-alley informants who are
killed before revealing much of significance, vague hearings, mutterings by the
old men, and the entire plot device of "close the X-Files, mope, adventure,
reopen the X-Files" that they used in a previous season finale/opener.

">>" is Cronan, BTW.

>>And my sister recommends Dr. Dolittle.
>

>How old is she? Does she really enjoy flatulance jokes? Eddie has a thing

>for the butt...which is not only seen in this film, but also reflected in
>his recent arrest.

First, you're confusing transvestitism with homosexuality, and you're confusing
homosexuality with anal sex. Second, this is shaping up to be one of the saddest
ad hominems in the history of this newsgroup (rec.arts.sf.tv, that is).

>Both films have Eddie connected to them...might see a
>trend here. So, if X was brought back and played by Eddie Murphy making
>obscure Jesse Jackson references and many fart/sticking things in his butt
>jokes....the X-Files would shoot to the top of your list?

Such a keen, analytical mind leaping to the defense of the X-Files, here. Why
don't you back off, Tim, and let people represent X-Files fans who -aren't-
rabid, foaming, mercury-drinkers. I disagree with them, too, but at least we can
have a semi-civilized discussion without dragging asses into it by the fourth
post.

Bryan Lambert <bryn...@minn.net>, RATMM's Official Biggest Wuss!
Keeper: "Modern Space Ghost FAQ"
See my "And Speaking Of" toy column on rec.toys.action-figures.discuss
Visit my spiff web site, The Messy Canvas, at http://www1.minn.net/~bryncthy
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Think I'm the only one who noticed that the most guy moment of
the year, the winning of the World Series, consists of a bunch of
men running around kissing and hugging, grabbing each other's
butts, and crying while Queen's "We Are The Champions" plays in
the background?"-Chad Van Wagner

[Tim Norton]

jenroses wrote in message <#j51tx#o9GA.169@upnetnews05>...

>
>Tim Norton wrote in message <6n90aa$78c$1...@supernews.com>...
>>

>>jenroses wrote in message <#EXN8B5o9GA.264@upnetnews05>...
>>>I don't need the novelization to explain the movie. I enjoyed the
>movie
>>>before I had the novelization.
>>
>>I hope so if you've seen it five times. I bet on the sixth viewing you
>will
>>no longer jump when Mulder falls through the ice.
>>
>>>
>>>HOWEVER.... A lot of people seem to need things spelled out for them,
>>>and the novelization does that more than the movie does.
>>
>>
>>So, let's insult those people who have never watched the X-Files
>before, or
>>those fans who are a bit younger.
>>
>>Many of us didn't require multiple viewing to get it or enjoy the film.
>No
>>reason to imply one is superior to another because they have questions.
>>
>

>I did not imply that. I have no problem with people having questions. In
>fact, I'm working on an FAQ for the movie right now. And I didn't
>suggest that people couldn't enjoy the film after only one veiwing. I
>simply said that I enjoyed it more the second time around, suggesting
>that people who *didn't* enjoy it because it left unanswered questions
>might find it more enjoyable if they watched it again, and that those
>who really want to know more than the movie tells might benefit from the
>information the novelization provides.

Wow, I obviously read your post wrong. Sorry. Sounds like good solid
advice.

>
>
><snip>

>>and me) to the audience? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the film. So,
>no
>>"I'm a bigger fan than you because....." responses.
>>
>>Tim
>

>I'm not sure where you got that from. It's not what I intended, and I
>don't think it's what I said.

I was reading things into your response. Sorry if I got them wrong. I
guess I needed a FAQ to help me through your post : )

Tim

[Tim Norton]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
<6n9k9g$k03$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>...

>Tim Norton wrote
>>>When you're making an animated film for kids.
>>
>>I don't know. I tend to give kids more credit.
>
>Smart ass sidekicks do give kids credit. They often make cultural
>references that are the heart and soul of Disney's better fair. Like the
>Genie in Aladdin. That's their job. To be comic relief. Like Scully.

I think you missed the point of my comment. It was giving an example of
the routine formula Disney uses in their films. I understand the concept of
a sidekick, but I pointed out that Disney always requires the hero to have
"two" sidekicks. One cute and one a smartass. I'm not going to even get
into the misplaced "cultural references" that Eddie Murphy's dragon adds to
a film set in ancient China. I don't see how these give kid's any credit or
add anything to children's understanding of another culture.

>
>>>Not really. The only thing that can be honestly said about it and the
>other
>>>spat of Disney movies is that it has a heroine who saves her world from
>>>destruction. Beyond that it's certainly the best Disney movie in a long
>>>while.
>>
>>Depends on your tastes. It was traditional Disney. They will not stray
>far
>>from the formula as long as it keeps making money.
>
>So you preferred "Pocahontas", "Hunchback of Notre Dame" and "Hercules"? As
>I just said, it wasn't particularly formulaic and you rebut this by saying,
>"Yes it was so there!" Huh?

Sure. Point made. I agreed. Why is that hard to understand.

Why was it formulaic? You've a heroine, a
>villain and her winning in the end.

I think you answered your own question. No doubt Disney makes pretty
movies. The stories, IMO, need work.

I could say this is the same formula
>X-files followed. Be more specific.

If you thought this was the same plot as X-Files, you must not have seen the
film. The "heroes" in X-Files did not "win" in the end. The villians in
the film may be humanity's only hope. True, the film was a bit of
traditional sci fi, but it had enough twists to make it stand above most of
the recent films in this genre.

>
> Sure, their films are
>>"cute", but I hope that Disney decides to start taking some risks. The
>>success of shows like The Simpsons, South Park and King of the Hill prove
>>that there is a market for adult oriented cartoons.
>
>No they don't. They prove that their is a market for cartoons that appeal
>to both children and adults.

That's the point. I don't see many adults being thrilled by Mulan or
beating a path to the theaters to see it. Any path beaten is from kids who
have been exposed to too many McDonald's commericals.

South Park and The Simpsons, while having
>substantial adult followings are still primarily kids shows.

Hmmmm...I find the material centers around adult themes.

South Park may
>be raunchy but most of the people watching it are early to late teens. I've
>yet to actual see an adult oriented cartoon on American television other
>than the animes on the Scifi Channel and Heavy Metal on cable.

There is a local bar that has watch parties for SP. No one in there under
21 and it is a packed house. I'd be curious where you got your stats on the
target audience for SP and the Simpsons.

>
>>>The musical numbers were dry and unimaginative. So?
>>
>>So, that is boring. For adults and children alike.
>
>
>And you have a point I assume?

Gee, how much more do you need things spelled out for you? No wonder you
hate the X-Files.

>
>>They made up but a
>>>fraction of the movie.
>>
>>Seemed like more.
>
>
>Again I ask you: so?

Gee, this kind of rebuttle could go on forever.

><snipped>
>>X-Files on the other hand, is for a more sophisticated and mature
>audience.
>
>Any mature, sophisticated audience spent their time in the X-files movie
>laughing rather heartily at it. Same with the TV series. Mature and
>sophisticated are two of the last things the X-files will ever be. '

And, you must be the epitomy of maturity. Why respond to X-Files posts if
you dislike the series so much. So, you hate it. Great. I'd be hard
pressed to agree with you that Mulan or Dr. Doolittle are more sophisticated
fare.

Out of
>Sight' was fairly mature and made an attempt at something other than
>convolution to simulate sophistry. (Notice the difference in the way the
>two
>movies handled the romantic story elements. One with class and a fair
>amount of emotional involvement the other pandered to fans with silly
>little teasers of what maybe. Guess which was which.

Well, since you said "Out of Sight" was fairly mature, yadda, yadda,
yadda....you're not providing us with a mystery on how you feel.

To suggest that the
>X-files, because is somehow more mature than Mulan just because Mulan has a
>song here instead of bizarre conspiracies that make no real sense is the
>height of fanboy lunacy.)

So, let me understand what you're saying. You are a Mulan fanboy.

I'm sorry you find "dry and unimaginative" (your words) songs more appealing
than "bizarre conspiracies". You must really hate sci fi in general. The
best stuff is always based on bizarre concepts.

>
>>>8
>>
>>As, I assume, most of the audience who will enjoy this film. No insults.
>>When I was 8 I enjoyed poo poo jokes too.
>
>Considering that the movie seems to be doing well across the board your
>implication that it is nothing but poopoo jokes are seem baseless.

No, just means that a lot of folks must enjoy poo poo jokes. A sad
reflection on the general public. Just not my tastes. Which is what we are
really debating.

And
>you've not seen the film. You're basing your opinion on those of anonymous
>reviewers.

Nope. Based on the film's commericals, previews and Murphy's past work.

>
>>>Eddie Murphy was easily my favorite part of Mulan. That's irrelevant,
>>>however. I haven't seen "Dr. Dolittle."
>>
>>The reviews have been lack luster.
>
>And? So? I could give two shits what Siskel & Ebert think.

How many "shits" does it take?

They're reviews
>almost always consist of quotes from the press packages.

Perhaps, but I've found that the reviews in Newsweek, the New York Times,
Time, and our local "art" magazine are usually quite insightful and fair.
I don't necessarily use them to decide which films to see, but I'm
interested in hearing what people who have studied film think.

>
>>As I said. My sister, a startlingly
>>>intelligent young lady, enjoyed the film immensely and she has always
>hated
>>>'children's films'.
>>
>>Not questioning your sister's maturity. An 8 year old is expected to find
>>a rat farting funny.
>
>Sometimes it is. The right actor can make anything funny.

Yeah, I know. It is so hard to find a rat who can act and fart on cue.

>
>>For the most part she, having grown up in house
>>>dominated by her three older brothers, has taken a liking to scifi action
>>>movies.
>>
>>Not so unusual for an child.
>
>I'm assuming that somewhere in here you are going to reach an actual point.
>I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm sure you would. It is called a REBUTTAL. Rebut, v., refute;
contradict; disprove. I feel my comments are legit and carry as much weight
as yours. Perhaps that means I don't have a point.

>
>>So when she says she likes Dolittle I not only take her at her word
>>>but will see it myself at the earliest opportunity.
>>
>>Great. Me, I will steer clear based on the fact that I find Eddie's butt
>>humor sophmoric at best. Oh, what a laugh riot when two sheep enter his
>>office saying their "butt's hurt". Great humor for 8 year olds.
>
>You've repeated this point several times as though appealing to a younger
>audience is somehow criminal and an immediate condemnation of the highest
>order.

Nope. But, I believe you were saying that X-Files was below the standards
of such immature fare. I disagree. I've stated why. Get it?

>
><snipped for space>
>>If you mean it
>>>seriously, well, let's just say that Murphy is a much better actor than
>>>David D. He proved that a while back.
>>
>>With such outstanding performances in Beverly Hills Cop 3, The Golden
>>Child and Metro (just a few highlights in his carrer.) He might be a
>>better comedic actor, but as far dramatic acting goes, he has yet to
>>prove himself.
>
>With such outstanding performances as 48 Hours, which he made in his early
>20's,

Yes, his successes are mostly during this time.

>he Nutty Professor, which several people suggested was Oscar worthy

I thought you could give "two shits what Siskel and Ebert think". Why
should you care what critics say is Oscar worthy.

>simply because of the sheer number of characters he played effectively,

I saw a film where the lead hid behind lots of make-up. I think the orginal
Nutty Professor was much more innovative.

>"The first two Beverly Hills Cop films and a few others.

I'll give you one. Two was far from being a good film.

While David D. may
>be a fangirl heart throb he's never been in anything that remotely
>resembles a hit. Particularly the much hyped, poorly reviewed movies such
>as "Playing God" and "Kalifornia".

You just said reviews don't matter. Why should a "hit"? A "hit" doesn't
mean one actor is better than another. There are many bad movie actors out
there who have been in several "hits".

>
>>That, coupled with his superior Box
>>>Office drawing power
>>
>>Hmmmm...this is questionable. Maybe in 1985. His "comeback" did not
>>occur until after "The Nutty Professor". A remake.
>
>Question it then. He simply has more Box Office appeal than David. Here,
>let's compare the grosses of their last 4 films.
>
>Metro: $45m
>The Nutty Proffesor: $244.3m
>Vampire in Brooklyn: 59.9m
>Beverly Hills Cop 3: 75m
>(worldwide grosses)
>
>Playing God: 4m

Certainly wasn't hyped as much as say...Metro.

>Kalifornia: 2m

That's why they call them low budget or independent films. I'd venture to
say Kalifornia was a superior film to both BHC3, Vampire and Metro.

>Ruby: 919,286
>Beethoven: 59m(he was in this for 5 seconds, right?)

Sure, both were his first films. So, you are going to count this as one of
his lead projects?

What did you do, break out your box office gross book? You don't care for
reviews (which you contradict to support your arguments) and I could care
less for how much a movie makes. It shouldn't mean anything to anyone but
the bean counters. If you're saying Eddie has more box office appeal
perhaps....I doubt for long. But, that is really beside the point.

>
>
>Now, Murphy's drawing power at the Box Office is better. And I'm not sure
>what you mean by a comeback.

He was no longer a box office draw...based on your own numbers...until his
comeback in Nutty Professor.

>He never really went away.

One can hope.

Some of his best
>films, "The Distinguished Gentleman"

Eh. That would be according to your tastes. Tastes are subjective you
know.

>and "Harlem Nights"

Wow, the "he shot my pinky toe off" scene. IMO, not his best stuff.

were way after
>1985(a year in which he didn't make any movies that I know of, BTW)

Let's see...what I feel are Eddie's highlights. Trading Places, 48 Hours,
BHC....all made before 1985. Cop may have been 86...I forget.

I did laugh at his exploits when he was busted with a transvestite hooker.
Now that was funny TV. Get it? TV...hee, hee...oh forget it.

So go
>ahead and question.

I will. One of the reasons I enjoy the X-Files and sci fi in general.

>
>>would certainly have insured the movie did better than
>>>it's current pathetic drop off.
>>
>>And, the amount a movie makes establishes its quality?
>
>No. I simply said that Murphy playing Mulder would have made a lot more
>money as evidenced by the X-files relatively poor showing.

LOL. Talk about ludicrous statements. And, I restate....the film would
certainly contain more fart jokes with Eddie at the helm. Would Gillian's
character then be replaced by a man in drag?

Wow, there is a connection to David and Eddie. David once played a
transvestite on Twin Peaks and Eddie tried to score with one.

>
>>Another rotten movie, IMO. I found myself feeling sorry for the actors
>>involved. As sorry as one can feel for somebody making 1 million plus.
>
>"Mars Attacks" was an excellent satire/parody.

Heh. Care to explain?

And had one of the greatest
>scenes in movie history(when those kids pick up the guns and kick ass for
>the Secret Service. Hugely funny.

Hugely funny? Is that possible? I found myself looking at my watch and
yawning.

Tim Burton has a certain genius that
>requires
>perversion to be fully appreciated..

Huh. So, you don't like one flm by a director and you can no longer
appreciate him. Oh, I'd say I enjoyed Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands,
Batman and the classic Ed Wood. Mars Attacks fell flat for me.

>...where the hell is this going?

Actually, did you even see the X-Files movie and if you did....why? You
said earlier that you hate the series. I know that I don't enjoy Murphy's
humor so I will steer clear of his film, but I don't understand why you
would see a film based on a series you hate. If you didn't see the
film....then, no, this debate has no foundation or point. Which makes one
wonder why you would be so adamant and respond to an X-Files thread in the
first place.

Tim

[Tim Norton]

Bryan Lambert wrote in message <3598f305...@news2.minn.net>...

>On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:31:53 -0500, "Tim Norton" <tno...@oklahoma.net>
wrote:

>First, you're confusing transvestitism with homosexuality, and you're

confusing
>homosexuality with anal sex. Second, this is shaping up to be one of the
saddest
>ad hominems in the history of this newsgroup (rec.arts.sf.tv, that is).

Perhaps you'd like to educate us.

>
>>Both films have Eddie connected to them...might see a
>>trend here. So, if X was brought back and played by Eddie Murphy making
>>obscure Jesse Jackson references and many fart/sticking things in his butt
>>jokes....the X-Files would shoot to the top of your list?
>
>Such a keen, analytical mind leaping to the defense of the X-Files, here.

And your opinions added what to the mix? Notta.

Why
>don't you back off, Tim,

And, thanks for the unnecessary assesment of our debate. If anyone is
trying to incorporate aggresion and needs to "back off" it is you.

and let people represent X-Files fans who -aren't-
>rabid, foaming, mercury-drinkers.

And, what are you, the 400 pound, greasy beared, comic shop lurking, Batman
t-shirt wearing fanboy? I'm so YOU are the one to represnt the fans of X.

I disagree with them, too, but at least we can
>have a semi-civilized discussion without dragging asses into it by the
fourth
>post.

Apparantly, Bryan. You did not read my entire post or in what context we
were discussing "asses". I noticed it only took you one post to bring it up
and hurl troll like insults. Thanks for sharing though.

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

mjohn...@yahoo.com wrote

>I thought "The Mask of Zorro" looked promising, myself.

I'd forgotten that one.

P&SC

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

DB wrote

>> A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.
>
>The novel doesn't explain the movie. The movie explains itself quiet
>well. In fact, the novel is nothing more than the script in novel
>form.

I'm sure that we, who paid our money and don't have your obsessive fanboy
brain to fill in the gaps, are rather curious as to how aliens hibernate in
virus form. Was a reel missing in the version of the movie I saw? The part
where they explained that they called it virus but it was really a liquid
egg?

P&SC
...your scientific illiteracy astounds even one who has spent time in the
Star Trek tech group

[Wayne Throop]

: "Plain and Simple Cronan" <cro...@DeathsDoor.com>
: Only humans are stupid. Animals, even to a limited extent other
: higher primates, cannot be stupid. They act and react on instinct.
: Instinct very rarely leads one into situation for which there is no
: positive tangible benefit.

I can only conclude PaSC hasn't known many animals personally.

In my experience (cats and dogs mostly, but observation of
yardcritters such as racoon, fox, deer and such also), some have
quite a large behavioral repitoire and are quite responsive to
their environment, and others of the same species are
dumber than a sack of hammers.

There are cats that bat at thrown nerf balls, and cats that have thrown
nerf balls bounce off their heads, and look puzzled. Dogs, too.
Yardcritter equivalent situations too.

One can suppose that this is all "instinct" if it's an animal;
but some of the behaviors are clearly not pre-programmed, IMO.
For one example, a kitten of my aquaintance who would carefully
choose where to fold a piece of string so that, by dragging it at
the fold, it would stay just barely out of reach ahead while running
around objects. I find it hard to suppose that the surveying of
the proposed chase circuit, the laying out of the string for length
consideration, and choice of grabpoint are instinctive behaviors.
Tailchasing may be instinctive, but tuning prosthetic tails
for length is much less likely instinctive.

And further, even if you decide to classify all animal behavior
as "reaction on instinct", with the builtin programs being better
or worse depending on inheritance, then I'd rate the equivalent
claim about people equally reasonable, based on my experience.

Some people are to a witticism as a puzzled cat is to a nerfball.

But maybe that's just me.
--
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

--
I'm reminded of an animal-cruel joke I heard ; attribution unknown.

A chrysler engineer hears that volvo spot-tests their cars for airtightness
by putting a cat inside, closing all doors and windows and such, and
checking 24 hours later. If the cat is dead of suffocation (the cruel part)
then the car passes the test.

Some chrysler workers decide to try this test. They take a car fresh
off the assembly line, put a cat in it, close all the openings,
and come back 24 hours later. The cat was gone. (hurrah!)

Not really relevant as such, but I was reminded of it, so there it is.

[bryn...@minn.net]

In article <6nb1e8$858$1...@supernews.com>,

"Tim Norton" <tno...@oklahoma.net> wrote:
> Bryan Lambert wrote in message <3598f305...@news2.minn.net>...
> >On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:31:53 -0500, "Tim Norton" <tno...@oklahoma.net>
> wrote:
>
>>First, you're confusing transvestitism with homosexuality, and you're
>>confusing homosexuality with anal sex. Second, this is shaping up to be one of
>>the saddest ad hominems in the history of this newsgroup (rec.arts.sf.tv, that
>>is).
>
> Perhaps you'd like to educate us.

Certainly. I present to you, your own words:

"Eddie has a thing for the butt...which is not only seen in this film, but
also reflected in his recent arrest."

Eddie Murphy was arrested for having a transvestite prostitute in his car.
His side of the story was that he was giving her a ride home. Even assuming
that he paid the transvestite for sex (worst case scenario), transvestites
are not necessarily homosexual, the sex was not necessarily anal, and Eddie
Murphy may or may not have a "thing for butts".

Feeling educated yet? Let's continue.

"Both films have Eddie connected to them...might see a
trend here. So, if X was brought back and played by Eddie Murphy making
obscure Jesse Jackson references and many fart/sticking things in his butt
jokes....the X-Files would shoot to the top of your list?"

In other words, you're saying here that Cronan's filmic preferences are based
exclusively on the quantity of butt jokes (and, apparently, Jesse Jackson
references, although to my recollection, Mulan contained none of the latter,
and few of the former). That's (a) incorrect, based on the evidence from
Cronan's posting history, and (b) a (weak, IMHO) ad-hominem attack.

> >Such a keen, analytical mind leaping to the defense of the X-Files, here.
>
> And your opinions added what to the mix? Notta.

And what of my opinions of the relative amounts X-Files and Mulan broke out of
their respective formats, that you snipped from this reply and didn't address?
Did those add anything more to the mix?

>> Why don't you back off, Tim,
>
> And, thanks for the unnecessary assesment of our debate. If anyone is
> trying to incorporate aggresion and needs to "back off" it is you.

I'm not the one who went after Cronan's opinions of Mulan and his eight-year
old sister's opinion of Dr. Doolittle with accusations of ass-fixation. OTOH,
I am reacting somewhat aggressively to your lowering of the quality of the
overall debate regarding the X-Files movie, which, outside of this subthread,
has actually been rather interesting and engaging.

> >and let people represent X-Files fans who -aren't-
> >rabid, foaming, mercury-drinkers.
>
> And, what are you, the 400 pound, greasy beared, comic shop lurking, Batman
> t-shirt wearing fanboy? I'm so YOU are the one to represnt the fans of X.

I don't represent the fans of X-Files. I'm not a fan of X-Files. I enjoy the
show on occasion, when they're doing interesting, self-contained storylines
(preferably written by Darin Morgan) and would enjoy the series, and the
movie, much more, if the grander, arc aspects of the show were to actually
move forward and create change and resolution.

Who I was suggesting represent "X-Files Fans" in the debate over the worth of
the movie is the other people in these threads, who, for the most part, are
making fairly cogent, comprehensible points that I can at the very least
agree to disagree with, instead of casting about vague accusations of rectal
fixation and homosexuality towards posters, posters' sisters, and cast
members of movies being compared to "Fight The Future".

And for your records: 185 lbs (6'1" frame), I don't own a bear; if you meant
greasy-haired, that's incorrect, and if you mean greasy-bearded, my face is
typically cleanshaven. I make it to the local comic shop approximately once
every three months, and the last "Batman" T-Shirt I owned wore out
approximately 8 years ago, and featured a shot from Frank Miller's "The Dark
Knight Returns".

> I disagree with them, too, but at least we can
> >have a semi-civilized discussion without dragging asses into it by the
> fourth
> >post.
>
> Apparantly, Bryan. You did not read my entire post or in what context we
> were discussing "asses". I noticed it only took you one post to bring it up
> and hurl troll like insults. Thanks for sharing though.

Please explain how your discussion of "asses" contributed to the discussion of
the relative merits of "Mulan" and "X-Files".

Bryan Lambert
HOME: <bryn...@minn.net>
WEB: <http://www1.minn.net/%7Ebryncthy>

In the interest of striking while the iron is hot, this article was

[Tom Thatcher]

In article <6n911r$hss$2...@supernews.com>,

Tim Norton <tno...@oklahoma.net> wrote:
>
>Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message

><6n8vk3$92u$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...

>>Only humans are stupid. Animals, even to a limited extent other higher
>>primates, cannot be stupid. They act and react on instinct. Instinct very
>>rarely leads one into situation for which there is no positive tangible
>>benefit.
>
>

>Unless it is a trap.

But there is positive tangible benefit--food (bait). How likely is
it that a cat would walk into a dark place that had no food, did not
smell like there was food, in which there had never been food before,
but which smelled as though there was a bear inside?

--
Tom Thatcher | You can give a PC to a Homo habilis,
University of Rochester Cancer Center | and he'll use it, but he'll use it
tt...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu | to crack nuts.

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Wayne Throop wrote

<snipped some stuff>

>Some people are to a witticism as a puzzled cat is to a nerfball.
>
>But maybe that's just me.

I hereby retract my statement.

[Tim Norton]

Tom Thatcher wrote in message <6nbibl$ca...@biko.cc.rochester.edu>...

>In article <6n911r$hss$2...@supernews.com>,
>Tim Norton <tno...@oklahoma.net> wrote:
>>
>>Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
>><6n8vk3$92u$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>...
>
>>>Only humans are stupid. Animals, even to a limited extent other higher
>>>primates, cannot be stupid. They act and react on instinct. Instinct very
>>>rarely leads one into situation for which there is no positive tangible
>>>benefit.
>>
>>
>>Unless it is a trap.
>
>But there is positive tangible benefit--food (bait). How likely is
>it that a cat would walk into a dark place that had no food, did not
>smell like there was food, in which there had never been food before,
>but which smelled as though there was a bear inside?

Okie dokie...you earned your honorary degree in animal husbandry.

However, I forgot the original question. Was it, Mulder is as smart as a
fox, or Gillian is a fox, or instinct is the best unless you are being
suckered into a trap, or that cats hate bears, or was the point that you
have to be smart in order to be stupid?

Tim

[Ron Christian]

In article <6n94pr$qou$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>,

Plain and Simple Cronan <cro...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote:
>
>J wrote
>
>>"Why, it's a simple German head cold, any English school boy could catch
>>it!"
>
>I LOVE THIS LINE! Where did it come from?

It's a tad misquoted. If you don't say "German head code", you miss
most of the joke. "I think I've got it. Achoo." "Let's see, a b is
a b and a d is a d..." From The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra by
the Firesign Theater. By far their best work. Last I checked it was
on CD, but it might be out of print.

"Aha!" "What is it?" "I sat on my pipe!"

Ron
--
"I wonder if the people who pontificate endlessly about banning 'evil guns'
realize they're just another kind of gun nut." -- Oliver

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Tim Norton wrote an astoundingly long message for no apparent reason. I've
snipped away as much is possible in a vain attempt to make it remotely
readable by those who wish to move onto other things with more
entertainment or informative value:

>I think you missed the point of my comment.

No. I think your comment was without a point.

It was giving an example of
>the routine formula Disney uses in their films. I understand the concept
>of a sidekick, but I pointed out that Disney always requires the hero to
>have "two" sidekicks. One cute and one a smartass.

'Wise-cracking sidekicks' does not qualify as a formula. It is a commonly
used(in both live action and animation) story element that be part of a
formula. So far it is the closest you have come to defining Disney's formula
other than, "it makes money." I could apply your criteria to the Files by
saying Scully is the cute sidekick and the lone gunmen are the wiseacres.
How's that? Vague as you are, try and be more specific.

I'm not going to even get
>into the misplaced "cultural references" that Eddie Murphy's dragon adds
>to a film set in ancient China. I don't see how these give kid's any
>credit or add anything to children's understanding of another culture.

People who take their children to the movies for lessons in cultural
diversity are... well a lot like you.

>>So you preferred "Pocahontas", "Hunchback of Notre Dame" and "Hercules"?
>>As I just said, it wasn't particularly formulaic and you rebut this by
>>saying, "Yes it was so there!" Huh?
>
>Sure. Point made. I agreed. Why is that hard to understand.

Okay. Let me detail the evolution of this point to make a separate one:

I say: Mulan wasn't particularly formulaic other than in the most vague
terms
You say: Yes it was. It had side kicks
I say: You can't just say, "X is true" and back it up with big empty
statement
You say: Sure. Point made. I agreed. Why is that hard to understand.

This is a FQA if I've ever seen one. The separate point is this: you're not
really going anywhere. You're intent is defend the X-files; all other
arguments are secondary too this overwhelming goal.

>I think you answered your own question. No doubt Disney makes pretty
>movies. The stories, IMO, need work.

You've got a train of thought running on rusted, rotting rails.

>If you thought this was the same plot as X-Files, you must not have seen
>the film. The "heroes" in X-Files did not "win" in the end.

They certainly got what they, wanted, yes? They postponed the invasion and
colonization of Earth. They got their jobs back investigating the truth and
are certainly better off than they were are the beginning. So Mulder and
Scully did win.

<snipped some praise for the X-files movie>

>That's the point. I don't see many adults being thrilled by Mulan or
>beating a path to the theaters to see it.

I do. That's why it made more than the X-files this weekend. That's why
it'll make more than the X-files next week end and make more in the final
summation. Kids go. But adults have to take them and unless you appeal to
both your movie makes no money. Witness "Quest for Camelot"'s failure.

Any path beaten is from kids who

>have been exposed to too many McDonald's commercials.

Wrong.

>South Park and The Simpsons, while having
>>substantial adult followings are still primarily kids shows.
>
>Hmmmm...I find the material centers around adult themes.

That's because you're hopelessly immature.

>There is a local bar that has watch parties for SP. No one in there
>under 21 and it is a packed house. I'd be curious where you got your
>stats on the target audience for SP and the Simpsons.

So? I could hold a 'no one under 21 party for "The Batman/Superman
Adventures" or "ReBoot" or "Pinky and the Brain." All of those have
significant adult followings. Doesn't change their target audience. Cartoons
are still kids stuff in America.

<snipped>

>Gee, this kind of rebuttle could go on forever.

I'm not rebutting you. I can't fight your obsessive single-minded X-phile
devotion any more than Mulder can fight the future.

>>Any mature, sophisticated audience spent their time in the X-files movie
>>laughing rather heartily at it. Same with the TV series. Mature and
>>sophisticated are two of the last things the X-files will ever be. '
>
>And, you must be the epitomy of maturity. Why respond to X-Files posts
>if you dislike the series so much. So, you hate it. Great. I'd be
>hard pressed to agree with you that Mulan or Dr. Doolittle are more
>sophisticated fare.

Here, let me try to explain what the X-files is to you: It is a show that
gainfully substitutes mature relationships with paranoia and delusional
ranting. It supplements rare grace and complexity with clumsy convolution and
in the process mocks itself more than I could ever hope to. The X-files
succeeds by justifying the increasing paranoia and gullibility of people
around the world while weaving together a poorly planned narrative with poor
characters who fall through plot holes only to find themselves on the cushion
of writer fiat. Clear?

<snipped>

>No, just means that a lot of folks must enjoy poo poo jokes. A sad
>reflection on the general public. Just not my tastes. Which is what we
>are really debating.

No, we aren't. You aren't debating anything. You're in this to Defend the
Files and tear apart one of its detractors. That would be me. So far you've
insulted my sister, you've insulted me and insulted everyone who enjoyed Dr.
Dolittle but doesn't care for the X-files. A series of unremarkable
accomplishments.

>Nope. Based on the film's commericals, previews and Murphy's past work.

Huh. So, you haven't seen the film, you've seen advertisements of one form
or another and completely unrelated films and dubbed Dolittle a horrendous
feature. Well. How am I to rebut one who openly admits to being ignorant?
Answer: I can't.

>>And? So? I could give two shits what Siskel & Ebert think.
>
>How many "shits" does it take?

With cool, dry wit like that you should be an action movie hero

<snipped more stuff>

>>Sometimes it is. The right actor can make anything funny.
>
>Yeah, I know. It is so hard to find a rat who can act and fart on cue.

I found you, did I not?

>I'm sure you would. It is called a REBUTTAL. Rebut, v., refute;
>contradict; disprove.

Which you've not done. When I say my sister enjoyed a movie you judge her
without knowing her or having seen the movie. That ain't a rebuttal. It's a
poorly disguised flame.

I feel my comments are legit and carry as much weight
>as yours.

Yours carry the weight of compressed ignorance. This allows you to force
your way by any inconvenient points through startling lapses in logic and
common sense.

>Perhaps that means I don't have a point.

Yes, it does.

>Nope. But, I believe you were saying that X-Files was below the
>standards of such immature fare. I disagree. I've stated why. Get it?

Your statements of why the X-files is superior, and attacks on those who
disagree, are far more immature than any themes evidenced in Mulan. What
you've done is repeat yourself saying, "X-files is mature and sophisticated."
You've not said why they were so other than they are and Mulan/Dolittle are
not as though by holding these two films, of which you've not seen one and
seemed to miss most of the other, in contempt your opinion on the Files is
confirmed..

>>With such outstanding performances as 48 Hours, which he made in his
early
>>20's,
>
>Yes, his successes are mostly during this time.

Err... no. After 48 HRS. he didn't make another film for two years.

>I thought you could give "two shits what Siskel and Ebert think". Why
>should you care what critics say is Oscar worthy.

You're the one that gave value to their comments. If you value something
and I've access to it becomes of some value to me. As in it can be used
against you. [I'd appreciate it if you could properly punctuate your
questions, BTW]

>I saw a film where the lead hid behind lots of make-up. I think the
>orginal Nutty Professor was much more innovative.

I see a film where the lead played several diverse characters, giving them
all personalities. Where as in the original Lewis played TWO characters,
Murphy played 6. And played them all extremely well. He was aided by FX
make-up. I'd ask you what difference this makes and why the hell this is
important to The "X-files" but I'm afraid you'd answer.

This is what I mean when I say you have no point. I start out rebutting
your assertion and you divert the topic completely.

>I'll give you one. Two was far from being a good film.

You've nothing to give if your posts thus far have been any indication.

>You just said reviews don't matter.

And you said they did. Make up your mind.

>Why should a "hit"?

You're not very good at this whole Usenet Discussion Thingie are you?

A "hit" doesn't
>mean one actor is better than another. There are many bad movie actors
>out there who have been in several "hits".

No, they don't. But this began when I said the X-files would do better at
the Box Office(and have been a better film) if Mulder were played by
Murphy.

>>Question it then. He simply has more Box Office appeal than David. Here,
>>let's compare the grosses of their last 4 films.
>>
>>Metro: $45m

>>The Nutty Professor: $244.3m

>>Vampire in Brooklyn: 59.9m
>>Beverly Hills Cop 3: 75m
>>(worldwide grosses)
>>
>>Playing God: 4m
>
>Certainly wasn't hyped as much as say...Metro.

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. Playing God was HEAVILY hyped. Commercials ran WAY
too often. There were even posts several of the more comedy themed newsgroups
about them. Over and over and over. That one like from the commercial is
burned into my memory for ever and ever.

>>Kalifornia: 2m
>
>That's why they call them low budget or independent films. I'd venture >to
say Kalifornia was a superior film to both BHC3, Vampire and Metro.

So? We're talking Box Office drawing power here.

>Sure, both were his first films. So, you are going to count this as one
>of his lead projects?

Well since his only lead projects has been DISMAL failures I had to look
somewhere, right?

>What did you do, break out your box office gross book?

Do all those mumbers make your wittle bwain hurt?

You don't care for
>reviews (which you contradict to support your arguments) and I could care
>less for how much a movie makes.

You've determined the value of reviews. You brought them up. I used them
against you. Deal with it.

>It shouldn't mean anything to anyone but the bean counters.

Which was the point. I said, "Eddie Murphy has superior Box Office drawing
power." You said that was questionable. I proved otherwise.

If you're saying Eddie has more box office appeal
>perhaps....I doubt for long. But, that is really beside the point.

No, it isn't. I challenge you to make the argument that DD will, using as
cogent an argument as you can manage, somehow acquire more Box Office
drawing power than Murphy. Please.

>He was no longer a box office draw...based on your own numbers...until
>his comeback in Nutty Professor.

Please show this, based upon my numbers. His fortunes vary. Just like every
other actor. Was Air Force One a comeback for Harrison Ford? Occasionally
actors just make a few flops or underperformers. It happens.

>Wow, the "he shot my pinky toe off" scene. IMO, not his best stuff.

The value of your opinion is considerably lower than that of your average
salt-sprinkled garden slug.

>were way after
>>1985(a year in which he didn't make any movies that I know of, BTW)
>
>Let's see...what I feel are Eddie's highlights. Trading Places, 48 Hours,
>BHC....all made before 1985. Cop may have been 86...I forget.

Your feelings on the matter are highly suspect. You've made clear your
intention by this point: Defend the Files from all aggressors. At this moment
Murphy is a point you feel can help bolster the X-files in some way.

>I will. One of the reasons I enjoy the X-Files and sci fi in general.

By making ridiculous statements that are contradicted by... well
everything?

>>No. I simply said that Murphy playing Mulder would have made a lot more
>>money as evidenced by the X-files relatively poor showing.
>
>
>LOL. Talk about ludicrous statements. And, I restate....the film would
>certainly contain more fart jokes with Eddie at the helm. Would
>Gillian's character then be replaced by a man in drag?
>
>Wow, there is a connection to David and Eddie. David once played a
>transvestite on Twin Peaks and Eddie tried to score with one.

So now, having been reminded by Franklin Hummel's post of Murphy's past
sexual run ins and having found yourself unable to actually DEFEND your
ludicrous statements.... you've decided to attack someone about whom your
know nothing. Perfect. An X-phile through and through.

<snipped>

>Actually, did you even see the X-Files movie and if you did....why?

Huh? did actually read the first post in this thread?

You
>said earlier that you hate the series. I know that I don't enjoy
>Murphy's humor so I will steer clear of his film, but I don't understand
>why you would see a film based on a series you hate.

Because I saw it for free and I also paid to see "Lost in Space". Wrote a
list about it too.

If you didn't see the
>film....then, no, this debate has no foundation or point. Which makes >one
wonder why you would be so adamant and respond to an X-Files thread
>in the first place.

I started the damn thread you... delightful little man.

P&SC
...I think this thread should be NULLED

[DB]

On 30 Jun 1998 07:06:39 GMT, kei...@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (James
Keivom) wrote:

>Having watched X-Files for several seasons, I have to admit I didn't
>understand many of the plot holes in the movie. Many of the people here
>give reasons as to why things happened in the movie(eg. fly waits for the
>perfect moment) but as Roger Ebert once said, you have to use material
>that is provided in the movie to back up your statement.

It was a bee not a fly.

[sk8m...@my-dejanews.com]

I think I should point out that butt jokes are an *OLD* Disney tradition,
going all the way back to the days of Uncle Walt himself. Apparently his
sense of humor had its low slapstick spots.

Maven

[Robert St. James]

jenroses wrote in message ...
:<...>
*. Most of the complaints I've read have to do with
:internal
:>inconsistencies rather than lack of Real World credulity. And FTF did
:>have a lot of continuity problems.
:>
:See, this is the thing... I see some internal inconsistancies, but the
:most significant gripes tend to do with "That couldn't happen in the
:real world" arguments.

Yeah, I know. Funny how everyone suddenly becomes an expert
on FBI procedure, isn't it?

<...>
:>Good works of art don't distintegrate on second viewing: they grow
:stronger.
:>
:MY POINT....... My second viewing of FTF was a lot more enjoyable than
:the first one. To tell you the truth, out of the five times I've seen
:it, my absolute fave was the fourth one. Didn't matter that I'd seen it
:three times already, I still enjoyed the heck out of it. I was watching
:it for different things in the fifth viewing, deliberately pulling back
:from enjoying the story to look at nipicks... guess what? I still ended
:up absorbed, and still jumped when Mulder fell through the ice. The more
:I see the movie, read the book, etc... the more I enjoy this movie.

I guess you're luckier than some people in that you can skip over the weak
story line. I wasn't impressed enough the first time to want to see it again.
It really seemed like another haphazard S5 Conspiracy ep which started
off well, but then couldn't follow through.

<...>

:That's just it.... I'm NOT trying to "just stand up for my show."
:Schitzogeny sucked, and I'll be the first to admit it. I'd say that the
:X-Files makes it for me about 70% of the time. I've paid to see FTF five
:times because I *want* to see the story again. There are very few
:episodes that I'll watch five times, and they're free.

There are a lot of episodes which make the movie look like what it is:
a C+ ep from S5. When I want great files, I go to One Breath, Anasazi,
Nisei, and the other great arcs. This movie just didn't measure up to
them because the storyline wasn't as interesting. Mulder and Scully
battle plot to colonize earth with aliens. Eh, ok.

<...>

:This movie was NOT what I expected.... and that made the first viewing
:hard. The second time there were no "expectations" and I enjoyed it very
:much, so much that I have gone back many times.

Unfortunately this movie was *exactly* what I expected: a muddled story
about an alien takeover with very little continuity with the last five seasons
of the show. Sometimes I wonder if CC really does want to break away
from the X-Files of the past.

<...>
:<tipping my hat> Thanks.

<laugh> Go see the movie again and try to find out why 1013 thinks aliens
are going to be more interesting than Samantha.

Robert St. James
(american singer, american songwriter)
http://www.rjames.com

[Robert St. James]

:Fred G. Sanford wrote
:>The bee could have been robotic, like the robot cockroaches in the episode
:>"War of the Coprophages."

And that might have made sense if they hadn't analyzed those bees in Zero
Sum. And it might have been interesting if CC *had* referred back to previous
eps in anything other than the most token ways. The Files has a long and rich
history. Why wasn't more of it used to make the film (hint: Samantha. Remember
her?)

[jc]

the new
http://nuweb.nu
need sites about D.Barrymore
thanks
jc

[Plain and Simple Cronan]

Robert St. James wrote

>Yeah, I know. Funny how everyone suddenly becomes an expert
>on FBI procedure, isn't it?

Please explain the part of FBI procedure that allows a single agent to
commandre transport to Antartica.

P&SC

[Fred G. Sanford]

Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:

> DB wrote
> >> A movie should NOT need a novelization to explain it.
> >
> >The novel doesn't explain the movie. The movie explains itself quiet
> >well. In fact, the novel is nothing more than the script in novel
> >form.
>
> I'm sure that we, who paid our money and don't have your obsessive fanboy
> brain to fill in the gaps, are rather curious as to how aliens hibernate in
> virus form. Was a reel missing in the version of the movie I saw? The part
> where they explained that they called it virus but it was really a liquid
> egg?
>

See "Piper Maru."

> P&SC
> ...your scientific illiteracy astounds even one who has spent time in the
> Star Trek tech group

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