Tron Legacy actually USES the uncanny valley!
Ken from Chicago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEbY9Q8dBE
-- Ken from Chicago
Mike Van Pelt
Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Finally someone actually deliberately uses the "uncanny valley" effect:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEbY9Q8dBE
"Star Trek: Enterprise" did a deliberate use of the "uncanny
valley" in the first episode... Dr. Phlox is bragging about
how perfectly he has learned to mimic human expressions, and
demonstrates his "smile". They did some CGIing on it, and
from normal Trek forehead-bump alien, *whoops*, we just did
a Brodie off the edge and went *splat* at the bottom of the
Uncanny Valley. Very effective. (And one of the few good
things about "Enterprise", at least, until Berman and Braga
were kicked out.)
--
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Dougie Roberts
news:AL2dnfOsCJpw8NTR...@giganews.com...
> Finally someone actually deliberately uses the "uncanny valley" effect:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEbY9Q8dBE
>
No kidding. If the "fakeness" of the CGI-rejuvenated Jeff Bridges looks so
obvious when watching on Youtube, how bad is it going to look on the big
screen? He's got "Beowulf-face".
And as usual, the dead giveaway is the unnatural mouth movements. It makes
him look animatronic.
Ken from Chicago
"Dougie Roberts" <dougie...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:uzO2o.9832$Z6.1570@edtnps82...
And that's the point: To make him look *computer* animated. Genius move on
their part.
-- Ken from Chicago
Dougie Roberts
But why does he look computer animated in the real world? Makes no sense.
Ken from Chicago
"Dougie Roberts" <dougie...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:u5P2o.9833$Z6.8471@edtnps82...
It was a flashback, ala Benjamin Buttons or Red Dragon or X-Men 3. They
couldn't make 70-year-old bearded Jeff Bridges look 40 years old and
clean-shaven. Or maybe it was supposed to be a trick of the mind that Sam
thinks of his dad as part machine.
-- Ken from Chicago
Alls Quiet
>
> "Star Trek: Enterprise" did a deliberate use of the "uncanny
> valley" in the first episode... Dr. Phlox is bragging about
> how perfectly he has learned to mimic human expressions, and
> demonstrates his "smile". They did some CGIing on it, and
> from normal Trek forehead-bump alien, *whoops*, we just did
> a Brodie off the edge and went *splat* at the bottom of the
> Uncanny Valley. Very effective. (And one of the few good
> things about "Enterprise", at least, until Berman and Braga
> were kicked out.)
A friend wrote an entire book about Next Generation's Data's uncanny
valley effect, but at the time of Enterprise's uber-ballyhooed
premiere (starting as early as 1994), I don't recall any mass outcry
against the first episode for this specific reason. I
John Reiher
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> It was a flashback, ala Benjamin Buttons or Red Dragon or X-Men 3. They
> couldn't make 70-year-old bearded Jeff Bridges look 40 years old and
> clean-shaven. Or maybe it was supposed to be a trick of the mind that Sam
> thinks of his dad as part machine.
It sounds like the ATRONacylpse Now scenario that Jeff Bridges mentioned
that he wanted to do if they did do a TRON sequel. Bridges is playing
Kurtz to Hedlund's Willard. We'll see how it goes.
--
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Flasherly
> In article <uYydnd6Y395evNHRnZ2dnUVZ_vmdn...@giganews.com>,
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nos...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > It was a flashback, ala Benjamin Buttons or Red Dragon or X-Men 3. They
> > couldn't make 70-year-old bearded Jeff Bridges look 40 years old and
> > clean-shaven. Or maybe it was supposed to be a trick of the mind that Sam
> > thinks of his dad as part machine.
>
> It sounds like the ATRONacylpse Now scenario that Jeff Bridges mentioned
> that he wanted to do if they did do a TRON sequel. Bridges is playing
> Kurtz to Hedlund's Willard. We'll see how it goes.
Hope so -- conceptually, strange stuff for back then...what do you
got, WestWorld;- and may as well just forget that by the time
Terminator takes over. Campy, but comparatively not in the underlying
slew at the vortex of a directory named cyberpunk gurgling down the
toilet bowl - Cherry 2000, Traci Lords then and now CircuitryMan,
RobotJocks, High Plains Invaders, et alia ad infinitum. Final Fantasy
is actually pretty swift for groundbreaking CGI over a hell of a long
time coming. Not so long for those wily Japanese, though, back in the
trenches and ready to get a foot onto the assembly line of CGI. Ekusu
makina -- Appleseed Saga: Ex Machina. They're not cutting any slack
for purely conceived CGI -- certainly none the worse aside Heinlein
and later Starship Pluto takes. Which I suspect may be genuinely
actual effort given predominately to scripting a storyline: that gets
out what's stuffed intoit;- The rubover from greasy conceptual
operators of styluspen art being a greater chance of being overlooked
if engrossed in a plot.
Bar none, there's a formidable steepness to French director Enki
Bilal's lucidly dimensional storytelling in Immortel Ad Vitam;- also
at the verge of toppling over into pure CGI, save for such 1992's Miss
France, Linda Hardy whose oh so sweet work of ass redeems sublimely
any fuller rendition CGI has purely to impart. I don't mean to come
off jaded or at to a prejudicial of eugenically predisposion, but meat
like hers is, well, oh so sweet.
Ken from Chicago
"John Reiher" <kedamo...@Narf.mac.com> wrote in message
news:kedamono.Poit-4B0...@text.giganews.com...
I love the smell of neon in the morning.
-- Ken from Chicago
Alex Andersson
wrote:
> "Dougie Roberts" <dougierobe...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:uzO2o.9832$Z6.1570@edtnps82...
>
> > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nos...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:AL2dnfOsCJpw8NTR...@giganews.com...
> >> Finally someone actually deliberately uses the "uncanny valley" effect:
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEbY9Q8dBE
>
> > No kidding. If the "fakeness" of the CGI-rejuvenated Jeff Bridges looks so
> > obvious when watching on Youtube, how bad is it going to look on the big
> > screen? He's got "Beowulf-face".
>
> > And as usual, the dead giveaway is the unnatural mouth movements. It makes
> > him look animatronic.
>
> And that's the point: To make him look *computer* animated. Genius move on
> their part.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
How is this 'computer animated' look supposed to be intentional when
all the other programs are real people? If the computer-generated
'look' was done on purpose, then ALL of the characters in the Tron
universe (ie: non-human) would be wearing digital faces. Yet this is
not the case. Only the Clu 2.0 program looks fake... all other
programs are real people.
This overlooked fact adds weight to the theory that what we are seeing
is unfinished or early 'untweaked' CG footage. Lot's of Hollywood
studios strive to improve digital CG characters right up until barely
weeks before opening day.
I'm sorry, but if all the characters had the same weirdness going on
then I'd believe this effect was intentional.
Ken from Chicago
"Alex Andersson" <radion...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3875181a-6936-41cd...@z15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
He's the LEAD villain. It's why the lead villain is the one person in an
army of helmeted soldiers who does NOT wear a helmet.
-- Ken from Chicago
Dougie Roberts
news:3875181a-6936-41cd...@z15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Exactly.
And just to drive one last nail through the "it's intentional" theory.... As
you can see in one of the Tron Legacy trailers, there are flashback
sequences where the CG-rejuvenated Jeff Bridges appears in the "real world".
Here, there is no reasonable reason to render a CG face that looks
intentionally fake. It should look realistic. But in fact, it does not. His
CG-face looks just as fake in the real world as in the virtual world. Again,
the most likely explanation is that the Tron effects team is not able to
render a rejuvenated face that looks realistic. Perhaps the technology is
just not up to the task yet.
Dougie Roberts
>
> He's the LEAD villain. It's why the lead villain is the one person in an
> army of helmeted soldiers who does NOT wear a helmet.
His face looks fake in the "real world" flashback scenes too. Can't be
intentional.
j...@xmission.com
Problem is, no matter what they do, it will still be Tron. Pity.
Janice
wrote:
> Finally someone actually deliberately uses the "uncanny valley" effect:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFEbY9Q8dBE
I'd never heard of this before, so thanks for Today's Lesson in
Robotic Science :)
The wiki article you point to included this info:
Roboticist Dario Floreano stated that the concept of the uncanny
valley is taken seriously by the film industry due to negative
audience reactions to the animated baby in Pixar's 1988 short film Tin
Toy. The 2004 CGI animated film The Polar Express was criticized by
reviewers who felt that the appearances of the characters were
"creepy" or "eerie".
I've always wondered why I did not like the Polar Express animation...
it was a complete turn-off. And that Pixar baby was very creepy
indeed.
~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Avoid normal situations.
[..]
> This overlooked fact adds weight to the theory that what we are seeing
> is unfinished or early 'untweaked' CG footage. Lot's of Hollywood
> studios strive to improve digital CG characters right up until barely
> weeks before opening day.
Similarly, many Usenet posters strive to improve their punctuation right up
until barely seconds before they hit the "send" button.
--
alt.flame Special Forces
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don't respect the law; I have a total irreverence for anything connected with
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summer." -- Brendan Behan