2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations

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John Lorentz

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Mar 21, 2006, 11:57:20 PM3/21/06
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2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations

Best Novel
(430 ballots cast)
Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)

Best Novella
(243 ballots cast)
Burn, James Patrick Kelly (Tachyon)
"Magic for Beginners", Kelly Link (Magic for Beginners, Small Beer
Press; F&SF September 2005)
"The Little Goddess", Ian McDonald (Asimov’s June 2005)
"Identity Theft", Robert J. Sawyer (Down These Dark Spaceways, SFBC)
"Inside Job", Connie Willis (Asimov’s January 2005)

Best Novelette
(207 ballots cast)
"The Calorie Man", Paolo Bacigalupi (F&SF October/November 2005)
"Two Hearts", Peter S. Beagle (F&SF October/November 2005)
"TelePresence", Michael A. Burstein (Analog July/August 2005)
"I, Robot”, Cory Doctorow (The Infinite Matrix February 15, 2005)
"The King of Where-I-Go", Howard Waldrop (SCI FICTION December 7,
2005)

Best Short Story
(278 ballots cast)
"Seventy-Five Years", Michael A. Burstein (Analog January/February
2005)
"The Clockwork Atom Bomb", Dominic Green (Interzone May/June 2005)
"Singing My Sister Down", Margo Lanagan (Black Juice, Allen & Unwin;
Eos)
"Tk’tk’tk", David D. Levine (Asimov’s March 2005)
"Down Memory Lane", Mike Resnick (Asimov’s April/May 2005)

Best RelatedBook
(197 ballots cast)
Transformations: The Story of the Science Fiction Magazines from 1950
to 1970, Mike Ashley (Liverpool)
The SEX Column and Other Misprints, David Langford(Cosmos)
Science Fiction Quotations edited, Gary Westfahl(Yale)
Storyteller: Writing Lessons and More from 27 Years of the Clarion
Writers' Workshop, Kate Wilhelm (Small Beer Press)
Soundings: Reviews 1992_1996, Gary K. Wolfe (Beccon)

Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form
(364 ballots cast)
Batman Begins Story, David S. Goyer. Screenplay, Christopher Nolan
and David S. Goyer. Based on the character created, Bob Kane.
Directed, Christopher Nolan. (Warner Bros.)
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
Screenplay, Ann Peacock and Andrew Adamson and Christopher Markus &
Stephen McFeely. Based on the novel, C.S. Lewis. Directed, Andrew
Adamson. (Walt Disney Pictures/Walden Media)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Screenplay, Steven Kloves. Based
on the novel, J.K. Rowling. Directed, Mike Newell. (Warner Bros.)
Serenity Written & Directed, Joss Whedon. (Universal Pictures/Mutant
Enemy, Inc.)
Wallace & Gromit in the Curse of the Were_Rabbit Screenplay, Steve Box
& Nick Park and Bob Baker and Mark Burton. Directed, Nick Park &
Steve Box. (Dreamworks Animation/Aardman Animation).

Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form
(261 ballots cast)
Battlestar Galactica “Pegasus” Written, Anne Cofell Saunders.
Directed, Michael Rymer. (NBC Universal/British Sky Broadcasting)
Doctor Who “Dalek” Written, Robert Shearman. Directed, Joe Ahearne.
(BBC Wales/BBC1)
Doctor Who “The Empty Child” & “The Doctor Dances” Written, Steven
Moffat. Directed, James Hawes. (BBC Wales/BBC1)
Doctor Who “Father’s Day” Written, Paul Cornell. Directed, Joe
Ahearne. (BBC Wales/BBC1)
Jack-Jack Attack Written & Directed, Brad Bird. (Walt Disney
Pictures/Pixar Animation)
Lucas Back in Anger Written, Phil Raines and Ian Sorensen. Directed,
Phil Raines. (Reductio Ad Absurdum Productions)
Prix Victor Hugo Awards Ceremony (Opening Speech and Framing
Sequences). Written and performed, Paul McAuley and Kim Newman.
Directed, Mike & Debby Moir. (Interaction Events)
(There are seven nominees due to a tie for fifth place)

Best Professional Editor
(293 ballots cast)
Ellen Datlow (SCI FICTION and anthologies)
David G. Hartwell (Tor Books; Year's Best SF)
Stanley Schmidt (Analog)
Gordon Van Gelder (F&SF)
Sheila Williams (Asimov’s)

Best Professional Artist
(230 ballots cast)
Jim Burns
Bob Eggleton
Donato Giancola
Stephan Martiniere
John Picacio
Michael Whelan
(There are six nominees due to a tie for fifth place)

Best Semiprozine
(219 ballots cast)
Ansible edited, Dave Langford
Emerald City edited, Cheryl Morgan
Interzone edited, Andy Cox
Locus edited, Charles N. Brown, Kirsten Gong_Wong, & Liza Groen Trombi
The New York Review of Science Fiction edited, Kathryn Cramer, David
G. Hartwell & Kevin J. Maroney

Best Fanzine
(176 ballots cast)
Banana Wings edited, Claire Brialey & Mark Plummer
Challenger edited, Guy H. Lillian III
Chunga edited, Andy Hooper, Randy Byers & carl juarez
File 770 edited, Mike Glyer
Plokta edited, Alison Scott, Steve Davies & Mike Scott

Best Fan Writer
(202 ballots cast)
Claire Brialey
John Hertz
Dave Langford
Cheryl Morgan
Steven H Silver

Best Fan Artist
(154 ballots cast)
Brad Foster
Teddy Harvia
Sue Mason
Steve Stiles
Frank Wu

John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer of 2004 or 2005
[Not a Hugo Sponsored, Dell Magazines]
(186 ballots cast)
K.J. Bishop (2nd year of eligibility)
Sarah Monette (2nd year of eligibility)
Chris Roberson (2nd year of eligibility)
Brandon Sanderson (1st year of eligibility)
John Scalzi (1st year of eligibility)
Steph Swainston (2nd year of eligibility)
(There are six nominees due to a tie for fifth place)


There were 533 valid nominating ballots received from L.A.con IV and
Interaction members (434 electronically; 99 by mail and fax).

The Best Interactive Video Game category, added to the nominating
ballot this year by the L.A.con IV Committee, has been dropped because
of a lack of interest (as per Section 3.6 of the WSFS Constitution).

This is the second year of the transition to the new Campbell
eligibility rules, where now all professional publications count
towards eligibility rather than just those with a print run of over
10,000 copies. During this time, nominees who were eligible either
under both the old or the new rules could be placed on the ballot even
if they had small press publications prior to 2004. Next year, only
writers eligible under the new rules will be allowed on the ballot.
(The initial press release listing the 2005 Campbell nominees
mistakenly said that K.J. Bishop and Chris Roberson were in their
second year of eligibility, when in fact it was their first year.)

htn963

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Mar 22, 2006, 12:44:21 AM3/22/06
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John Lorentz wrote:
> 2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
> Best Novel
> (430 ballots cast)
> Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
> A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
> Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
> Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
> Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)

Haven't read any of these, but Scalzi's _Old Man's War_ looked
interesting. From the Amazon reviews, it's his debut novel and already
he out-Heinleins Heinlein in his prime. Military-SF ranks near the
bottom of my preferences within this genre, but I might check out this
one.

Of course, in keeping with recent trend,_A Feast for Crows_ will
probably win since it is the only fantasy novel on this list.

<Snip lesser-"who cares" categories>

Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
is that next year? My vote would go to Knights of the Old Republic II
(not the first one), which contains many enjoyable and
thought-provoking dialogues, especially on the interactions and
ambiguities between the Light, Dark, and Null sides of the Force.

--
Ht

Blake Hyde

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Mar 22, 2006, 1:40:19 AM3/22/06
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On 2006-03-22, htn963 <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Of course, in keeping with recent trend,_A Feast for Crows_ will
> probably win since it is the only fantasy novel on this list.

_AFfC_ should not win. It was easily the worst of the series.

David Goldfarb

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Mar 22, 2006, 2:32:44 AM3/22/06
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In article <1143006260....@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

htn963 <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:
>John Lorentz wrote:
>> 2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>>
>> Best Novel
>> (430 ballots cast)
>> Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
>> A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
>> Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
>> Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
>> Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)

Hm...for once I have already read all of the novel nominees! Except
the Martin, which means I either spoil myself for the series by
reading volume 4 out of order, or else have more reading in front of
me than all the rest of the nominees put together. Sigh.

> Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
>is that next year?

If you'd read the rest of the article, you'd have seen that the
category was dropped due to lack of interest.

--
David Goldfarb |"Thanks for the Dadaist pep talk. I feel
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | much more abstract now."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Eden R

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Mar 22, 2006, 4:56:29 AM3/22/06
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> Best Novel
> (430 ballots cast)
> Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
> A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
> Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
> Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
> Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)
>
>Huge GRR/ASoIaF fan and so I hope he doesn't win for AFoC...though I liked
>it a lot
thats like saying that a crack addict kinda likes crack :)

Compared to the earlier works it is not as good and in some ways till
'Dragons' is released maybe impossible to judge as GRR has said he
essentially split one huge tome into two

I suspect I must start reading Stross as keep reading too many glowing
reviews.

Cheers
EdenR


Rich Horton

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Mar 22, 2006, 7:57:15 AM3/22/06
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On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:57:20 -0800, John Lorentz
<jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:

First I should say that on balance this is an EXCELLENT list of
fiction nominations. The only category that comes a bit short is short
story.

>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
>Best Novel
>(430 ballots cast)
>Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
>A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
>Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
>Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
>Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)
>

I've read three of these. They are all good. My order is:

Spin
Accelerando
Learning the World

My strong preference for a variety of reasons is that Spin win. Not
that my preferences matter in the wider world ...

(What reasons? I liked it better. It's more of an integrated novel
than a collection of (very good) stories. And (and this is entirely
unfair to Charlie, but it does enter my mind) Robert Charles Wilson
has done lots of Hugo worthy work before and never won, while Charlie,
who has ALSO done lots of Hugo worthy work, has won.)

I have no reason to doubt that the two books I haven't read aren't
also pretty worthy nominees, though I STRONGLY doubt they would crack
my top two, and not likely my top three.

>Best Novella
>(243 ballots cast)
>Burn, James Patrick Kelly (Tachyon)
>"Magic for Beginners", Kelly Link (Magic for Beginners, Small Beer
>Press; F&SF September 2005)
>"The Little Goddess", Ian McDonald (Asimov’s June 2005)
>"Identity Theft", Robert J. Sawyer (Down These Dark Spaceways, SFBC)
>"Inside Job", Connie Willis (Asimov’s January 2005)
>

I've read them all. Three are outstanding, possibly the best three
novellas of the year. The other two are both pretty enjoyable. So --
again a pretty good, really, an excellent nomination list.

My ballot:
"Magic for Beginners"
Burn
"The Little Goddess"
"Inside Job"
"Identity Theft"

>Best Novelette
>(207 ballots cast)
>"The Calorie Man", Paolo Bacigalupi (F&SF October/November 2005)
>"Two Hearts", Peter S. Beagle (F&SF October/November 2005)
>"TelePresence", Michael A. Burstein (Analog July/August 2005)
>"I, Robot”, Cory Doctorow (The Infinite Matrix February 15, 2005)
>"The King of Where-I-Go", Howard Waldrop (SCI FICTION December 7,
>2005)
>

Again an excellent list. Four of the stories were on my list of best
novelettes. And while I strongly wish the Analog bloc had chosen one
of the really good Analog novelettes last year (there were several, my
favorite being "The Policeman's Daughter" by Wil McCarthy, but others
included "Company Secrets" by Kyle Kirkland, "Netpuppets" by Richard
A. Lovett and Mark Niemann-Ross, "Search Engine" by Mary Rosenblum,
and "Acts of Conscience" by Shane Tourtellote), it must be said that
"TelePresence", while surely not Hugo-worthy, is a decent story, one
of Burstein's better efforts.

My votes are unsure here. I'm leaning:

"The King of Where-I-Go"
"I, Robot"
"Two Hearts"
"The Calorie Man"
"TelePresence"

But I could change my mind. (Except about "TelePresence".)

>Best Short Story
>(278 ballots cast)
>"Seventy-Five Years", Michael A. Burstein (Analog January/February
>2005)
>"The Clockwork Atom Bomb", Dominic Green (Interzone May/June 2005)
>"Singing My Sister Down", Margo Lanagan (Black Juice, Allen & Unwin;
>Eos)
>"Tk’tk’tk", David D. Levine (Asimov’s March 2005)
>"Down Memory Lane", Mike Resnick (Asimov’s April/May 2005)

And the nominator were doing so good! This is by far the weakest
ballot category among the fiction.

My votes:
"The Clockwork Atom Bomb"
"Singing My Sister Down"
"Tk'tk'tk"
No Award

My nominating ballot included, in alphabetical order by author:
"Bliss" by Leah Bobet (On Spec, Winter 2005)
"Pip and the Fairies" by Theodora Goss (Strange Horizons, October 3)
"Jane", Marc Laidlaw (Sci Fiction, February 16)
"Finished" by Robert Reed (Asimov's, September)
"Triceratops Summer" by Michael Swanwick (Amazon Shorts)

I am on balance rather pleased with the Dominic Green nomination,
partly because I've enjoyed his work for years and he hasn't gotten
much notice. (Mostly because he has been appearing almost exclusively
in the UK.) And "The Clockwork Atom Bomb" was definitely on my list of
stories to consider for a nomination. The Lanagan story is very well
written, emotionally wrenching, and it has next to no real SFnal or
Fantastical kick. I think it's good work, but I think the stories I
mention are slightly better, and MUCH more interesting on SF or
Fantasy terms. And that should come into consideration when voting for
an award.

I like Levine's work, and "Tk'tk'tk" was pretty decent, but for
whatever reason didn't really thrill me. I think I will give it a
reread -- lots of other people seem to like it a lot more than I do,
maybe I missed something.

As for the Burstein and Resnick stories, they are simply not that
good. The other three are fine, even very good, but there were better
choices.

jesper....@home.se

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Mar 22, 2006, 9:22:50 AM3/22/06
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Rich Horton wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:57:20 -0800, John Lorentz
> <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> >Best Short Story
> >(278 ballots cast)
> >"Seventy-Five Years", Michael A. Burstein (Analog January/February
> >2005)
> >"The Clockwork Atom Bomb", Dominic Green (Interzone May/June 2005)
> >"Singing My Sister Down", Margo Lanagan (Black Juice, Allen & Unwin;
> >Eos)
> >"Tk'tk'tk", David D. Levine (Asimov's March 2005)
> >"Down Memory Lane", Mike Resnick (Asimov's April/May 2005)

> I am on balance rather pleased with the Dominic Green nomination,


> partly because I've enjoyed his work for years and he hasn't gotten
> much notice. (Mostly because he has been appearing almost exclusively
> in the UK.) And "The Clockwork Atom Bomb" was definitely on my list of
> stories to consider for a nomination. The Lanagan story is very well
> written, emotionally wrenching, and it has next to no real SFnal or
> Fantastical kick. I think it's good work, but I think the stories I
> mention are slightly better, and MUCH more interesting on SF or
> Fantasy terms. And that should come into consideration when voting for
> an award.

I must say that I'm very surprised that "The Clockwork Atom Bomb" got
nominated. I didn't find it all that well written and I thought it was
the LEAST interesting story in a rather lacklustre issue of Interzone.
I haven't read all that much short fiction this year (Green's story is
actually the nomnated story that I've read), but if I were to pick my
favourite short story for the year, then it would probably be "When the
Great Days Came" by Gardner Dozois.


// Jesper

Evelyn C. Leeper

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Mar 22, 2006, 10:30:08 AM3/22/06
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John Lorentz wrote:

> Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form
> (364 ballots cast)
> Batman Begins

> The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

> Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

> Wallace & Gromit in the Curse of the Were_Rabbit

No KING KONG? Somewhat surprising, but there were obviously many films
with big fan bases.

> Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form
> (261 ballots cast)
> Battlestar Galactica “Pegasus”

> Doctor Who “Dalek”


> Doctor Who “The Empty Child” & “The Doctor Dances”

> Doctor Who “Father’s Day”

> Jack-Jack Attack
> Lucas Back in Anger (presented at Interaction)


> Prix Victor Hugo Awards Ceremony (Opening Speech and Framing Sequences).

1) For the first time since the 1970s, a non-film, non-television,
non-DVD item has made the list. Two, actually, both from Interaction.
Which leads to my second observation:

2) You can tell that Interaction members could nominate, because the
short form list is heavily British (though the DOCTOR WHOs will be
running here in the next few months on the Sci-Fi Channel). It will be
interesting to see how these nominees fare when voted on by only L.A.con
IV members. And also my third:

3) This should justify all that nit-picking by people who said that you
can't just have "DP-Film" and "DP-TV" Hugos.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
God grant me the company of those who seek the truth,
and God deliver me from those who have found it. -Isaac Newton

David Dyer-Bennet

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Mar 22, 2006, 10:58:44 AM3/22/06
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"htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> writes:

> Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
> is that next year?

Didn't read the message you're responding to again, eh? Going back
and quoting from it:

John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> writes:

> The Best Interactive Video Game category, added to the nominating
> ballot this year by the L.A.con IV Committee, has been dropped because
> of a lack of interest (as per Section 3.6 of the WSFS Constitution).

--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Paul Dormer

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Mar 22, 2006, 11:15:00 AM3/22/06
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In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
jlor...@spiritone.com (John Lorentz) wrote:

> Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)

Interesting that this made it on, as it seems to be a fix-up and several
of the installments had already made it on previous ballots. Was the
novel changed much from the individual stories? (I've read the novel, but
the stories.)

WSFS constitution:

3.2.6: Works appearing in a series are eligible as individual works, but
the series as a whole is not eligible. However, a work appearing in a
number of parts shall be eligible for the year of the final part.


htn963

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Mar 22, 2006, 11:17:41 AM3/22/06
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David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> > Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
> > is that next year?
>
> Didn't read the message you're responding to again, eh?

No, just not far enough, as I assumed everything else after the
Campbell nominations would pertain to the Campbell award, which I
wasn't interested in. This was the next to last paragraph. But I
thank you for pointing this out to me.

And since I'm in a good mood today, I'll assume you weren't being
snarky with that "again" qualifier.

--
Ht

David Dyer-Bennet

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Mar 22, 2006, 11:43:37 AM3/22/06
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"htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> writes:

> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> writes:
> >
> > > Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
> > > is that next year?
> >
> > Didn't read the message you're responding to again, eh?
>
> No, just not far enough, as I assumed everything else after the
> Campbell nominations would pertain to the Campbell award, which I
> wasn't interested in. This was the next to last paragraph. But I
> thank you for pointing this out to me.
>
> And since I'm in a good mood today, I'll assume you weren't being
> snarky with that "again" qualifier.

I'd have to plead guilty to snarking there. Hope it doesn't ruin your
good mood.

(Hmmm; now *that* looks snarky, and this time it's not what I
intended).

James Nicoll

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Mar 22, 2006, 12:28:52 PM3/22/06
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In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,

John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations

Here's an oddity of the Hugos:

>Best Novel
>(430 ballots cast)
>Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
>A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
>Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
>Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
>Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)

Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.

Now, let's look at

>Best Professional Editor
>(293 ballots cast)
>Ellen Datlow (SCI FICTION and anthologies)
>David G. Hartwell (Tor Books; Year's Best SF)
>Stanley Schmidt (Analog)
>Gordon Van Gelder (F&SF)
>Sheila Williams (Asimov’s)

There's something very peculiar about someone editing
_sixty percent_ of the Hugo nominated novels and not themselves
getting the nod for Best Editor. What's even odder is that the
magazines, judging by the subscription rates, seem to please
fewer and fewer people each year and yet magazine editors dominate
the Best Professional Editor award year after year.
--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll

John Lorentz

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Mar 22, 2006, 12:34:56 PM3/22/06
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On 21 Mar 2006 21:44:21 -0800, "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
>is that next year? My vote would go to Knights of the Old Republic II
>(not the first one), which contains many enjoyable and
>thought-provoking dialogues, especially on the interactions and
>ambiguities between the Light, Dark, and Null sides of the Force.

L.A.con IV added a "Best Interactive Video Game" category this year,
but it's been cancelled due to a very low turnout in the nomination
voting. It looks like it just wasn't the right time for this
category.

---
John Lorentz, L.A.on IV Hugo Administrator

David G. Bell

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Mar 22, 2006, 12:15:51 PM3/22/06
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tOn Tuesday, in article
<88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>
jlor...@spiritone.com "John Lorentz" wrote:

> 2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
> Best Novel
> (430 ballots cast)
> Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
> A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
> Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
> Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
> Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)

There is a free, legal, download of "Accelerando" at
www.accelerando.org/book/

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

Thomas Womack

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Mar 22, 2006, 3:02:18 PM3/22/06
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In article <r42322h21vlhmcq86...@4ax.com>,

John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>On 21 Mar 2006 21:44:21 -0800, "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
>>is that next year? My vote would go to Knights of the Old Republic II
>>(not the first one), which contains many enjoyable and
>>thought-provoking dialogues, especially on the interactions and
>>ambiguities between the Light, Dark, and Null sides of the Force.
>
>L.A.con IV added a "Best Interactive Video Game" category this year,
>but it's been cancelled due to a very low turnout in the nomination
>voting.

Those bits of the games industry that I've looked at (ie a small group
of self-selected blogs) are fairly unanimous that 2005 was an
unusually bad year for video games, thanks at least in part to market-
timing issues with a crop of new consoles appearing in 2006.

Tom

Evelyn C. Leeper

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Mar 22, 2006, 3:15:56 PM3/22/06
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John Lorentz wrote:

> 2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>

> ...

When are the final ballots due?

William George Ferguson

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Mar 22, 2006, 3:13:56 PM3/22/06
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On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:28:52 +0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
wrote:

The SF fan community is still locked in the 30s-50s mindset on editors.
Even the two 'book' editors above were almost certainly not nominated for
their 'book' editing, but for their anthologies, which is more equivalent
to magazine editors (and has their names right there on the cover, unlike
'book' editors like the Haydens). Heck, more often than not, the only
place you'll see the editor's name in a novel is in the author's 'thank
you' paragraph on the Acknowledgement page.

--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)

Blake Hyde

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 4:43:54 PM3/22/06
to
On 2006-03-22, Thomas Womack <two...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Those bits of the games industry that I've looked at (ie a small group
> of self-selected blogs) are fairly unanimous that 2005 was an
> unusually bad year for video games, thanks at least in part to market-
> timing issues with a crop of new consoles appearing in 2006.
>
> Tom

Actually, I disagree. Though there werent *many* good games released
last year, the good games that were released were pretty unanimously
seen as excellent. _Shadow of the Colossus_ on the PlayStation2.
_Civilization IV_ and _F.E.A.R._ on the PC. _Lumines_ on the PSP and
_Meteos_ on the Nintendo DS. _Resident Evil 4_ on the Gamecube.
_God of War_ on the PS2.

I think it's more likely that the gaming industry just cares more about
awards garnered from its own media outlets than from an arbitrary group
of people involved in another industry entirely, many of whom are wholly
ignorant of the intricacies of video games.

David G. Bell

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 5:08:57 PM3/22/06
to
On Wednesday, in article <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com>
jdni...@panix.com "James Nicoll" wrote:

It certainly seems odd, but consider this: how many non-anthology book
editors get their names in a prominent place in the book?

Ulrika O'Brien

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 5:21:58 PM3/22/06
to

I'm hoping the revision of the rules to divide the Best Editor category
into Best Editor, long form and Best Editor, short form, will do some
good in ameliorating the discrepancy you point at. But first it has to
pass another rules vote, in LA.

Bernard Peek

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 5:26:05 PM3/22/06
to
In message <20060322.22...@zhochaka.org.uk>, David G. Bell
<db...@zhochaka.org.uk> writes


>> There's something very peculiar about someone editing
>> _sixty percent_ of the Hugo nominated novels and not themselves
>> getting the nod for Best Editor. What's even odder is that the
>> magazines, judging by the subscription rates, seem to please
>> fewer and fewer people each year and yet magazine editors dominate
>> the Best Professional Editor award year after year.
>
>It certainly seems odd, but consider this: how many non-anthology book
>editors get their names in a prominent place in the book?

That's something that Tor addressed when they gave their editors the
option of having their names included. I don't think any other
publishers have gone down that route.

--
Once more in search of cognoscenti
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com

John Lorentz

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 5:52:36 PM3/22/06
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:15:56 -0500, "Evelyn C. Leeper"
<ele...@optonline.net> wrote:

>John Lorentz wrote:
>
>> 2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>>
> > ...
>
>When are the final ballots due?

July 31, 2006. (more info is on the ballot itself, going out in a
week or two in PR 4), and we'll have on-line voting (used by more than
80% of the nominators) available on the L.A.con IV web site at
http://www.laconiv.org

--
John Lorentz, L.A.con IV Hugo Administrator

BGibbons

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 6:19:57 PM3/22/06
to
John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote in
news:88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com:

> This is the second year of the transition to the new Campbell
> eligibility rules, where now all professional publications count
> towards eligibility rather than just those with a print run of over
> 10,000 copies.

Not being aware of what goes on behind the scenes, I'm perplexed as to this
change.

I've always thought one of the flaws of the Campbell award is how early an
author can lose eligibility, forcing voters to decide the award on what is
sometimes a pretty thin volume of work.

In my mind, I would have thought the natural step would be to make the
eligibility requirements stricter (e.g., have the clock start ticking with
the first novel) rather than looser.

Anyone able to enlighten me?

--
Brian Gibbons.

Seth Breidbart

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 6:58:22 PM3/22/06
to
In article <slrne23hoa...@hyth.jusgladii.com>,
Blake Hyde <syr...@themailserviceofferedbygoogle.com> wrote:

>I think it's more likely that the gaming industry just cares more about
>awards garnered from its own media outlets than from an arbitrary group
>of people involved in another industry entirely, many of whom are wholly
>ignorant of the intricacies of video games.

The movie industry doesn't care all the much about the Hugos either,
but that doesn't stop them from releasing movies.

Seth

Marilee J. Layman

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 6:59:39 PM3/22/06
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:32:44 +0000 (UTC), gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
(David Goldfarb) wrote:

>In article <1143006260....@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>htn963 <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>John Lorentz wrote:
>>> 2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>>>
>>> Best Novel
>>> (430 ballots cast)
>>> Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
>>> A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
>>> Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
>>> Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
>>> Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)
>
>Hm...for once I have already read all of the novel nominees! Except
>the Martin, which means I either spoil myself for the series by
>reading volume 4 out of order, or else have more reading in front of
>me than all the rest of the nominees put together. Sigh.

I *own* all of those except the Martin. Have read the Stross &
Wilson, but I'm not voting anyway.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com/

John Pelan

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 8:25:42 PM3/22/06
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:57:15 GMT, Rich Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:57:20 -0800, John Lorentz
><jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>
>First I should say that on balance this is an EXCELLENT list of
>fiction nominations. The only category that comes a bit short is short
>story.
>
>>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>>
>>Best Novel
>>(430 ballots cast)
>>Learning the World, Ken MacLeod (Orbit; Tor)
>>A Feast for Crows, George R.R. Martin (Voyager; Bantam Spectra)
>>Old Man's War, John Scalzi (Tor)
>>Accelerando, Charles Stross (Ace; Orbit)
>>Spin, Robert Charles Wilson (Tor)
>>
>
>I've read three of these. They are all good. My order is:
>
>Spin
>Accelerando
>Learning the World
>
>My strong preference for a variety of reasons is that Spin win. Not
>that my preferences matter in the wider world ...
>
>(What reasons? I liked it better. It's more of an integrated novel
>than a collection of (very good) stories. And (and this is entirely
>unfair to Charlie, but it does enter my mind) Robert Charles Wilson
>has done lots of Hugo worthy work before and never won, while Charlie,
>who has ALSO done lots of Hugo worthy work, has won.)

Odd how much we think alike... I have to admit that much of the reason
for wanting SPIN to win is that Wilson has been snubbed (often
unjustly) and really deserves it. Charlie has won and will no doubt do
so again, and I've no no doubt that Ken will win plenty of awards
before he's done. It's probably not fair to either Ken or Charlie,
but I'm confident that they'll be back for more Hugos and I have a
feeling that this may be Wilson's best (and perhaps only) shot.

Cheers,

John

Rich Horton

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 9:35:01 PM3/22/06
to
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:26:05 +0000, Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com>
wrote:

Their names are still not PROMINENTLY placed, however. Basically, very
few people know who "edited"* a given novel.

(*and this too can be a complex question. Acquiring editor? Editor who
worked most with the author? Editor in the UK who bought it for
publication there? Editor of the magazine that published the short
stories from which the book was cobbled together?

I do concede that it's pretty likely that the bulk of what we are
probably attempting to give awards to with this category is
represented by the editor listed in a Tor book.)

Karl Johanson

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 9:37:10 PM3/22/06
to
"John Pelan" <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote in message

>>My strong preference for a variety of reasons is that Spin win. Not
>>that my preferences matter in the wider world ...
>>
>>(What reasons? I liked it better. It's more of an integrated novel
>>than a collection of (very good) stories. And (and this is entirely
>>unfair to Charlie, but it does enter my mind) Robert Charles Wilson
>>has done lots of Hugo worthy work before and never won, while Charlie,
>>who has ALSO done lots of Hugo worthy work, has won.)
>
> Odd how much we think alike... I have to admit that much of the reason
> for wanting SPIN to win is that Wilson has been snubbed (often
> unjustly) and really deserves it.

Not nominating or voting for a given story or author (etc.) isn't
'snubbing', it's expressing an opinion. I haven't read Spin myself, but
I quite enjoyed the section from it he read when he was in Victoria last
March.

Karl Johanson


Rich Horton

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 9:40:16 PM3/22/06
to

It's a fixup with significant revisions, which makes it a new work for
Hugo purposes.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 9:52:35 PM3/22/06
to
Ulrika O'Brien <ulr...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> I'm hoping the revision of the rules to divide the Best Editor
> category into Best Editor, long form and Best Editor, short form,
> will do some good in ameliorating the discrepancy you point at.
> But first it has to pass another rules vote, in LA.

If the problem is that most people don't know who edits their favorite
novels, this category will get few nominating votes, and will promptly
be dropped.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 9:55:59 PM3/22/06
to
Blake Hyde <syr...@themailserviceofferedbygoogle.com> wrote:
> I think it's more likely that the gaming industry just cares more
> about awards garnered from its own media outlets than from an
> arbitrary group of people involved in another industry entirely,
> many of whom are wholly ignorant of the intricacies of video games.

Maybe so, but that doesn't explain why games got few nominations.
That depends on what fans are interested in, not on what awards game
companies are interested in.

I'll admit that I'm one of the Hugo nominators who left that section
blank. I haven't played any videogames or computer games since Doom.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 10:02:40 PM3/22/06
to
John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> L.A.con IV added a "Best Interactive Video Game" category this year,
> but it's been cancelled due to a very low turnout in the nomination
> voting. It looks like it just wasn't the right time for this category.

Please tell us how many nominations were received. I know this
information is usually embargoed until after the Hugo ceremony, but
since there's no way the information on this category can bias the
voting, there's no good reason not to reveal it immediately. Thanks.

John Pelan

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 10:38:04 PM3/22/06
to

Not to split hairs, but I use "snubbed" in the context of being
overlooked/ignored. By no means do I imply malice on the part of the
readership; it's simply that Wilson has produced a string of very
impressive novels (and short stories) that have been accorded the
publicity budget and advertising push that you would normally
associate with the reprint of an obscure 1960s novel.

Do take a look at the number of times he's been a finalist for a major
award and not won. I won't say that in all cases he should have, but
he does seem to have an almost Silverbergian track record of being on
th efinal ballot and coming up short. I think if you read all of
Wilson's work, you'll agree that he's definitely one of our very best.


Cheers,

John

Rich Horton

unread,
Mar 22, 2006, 11:13:42 PM3/22/06
to
On 22 Mar 2006 21:55:59 -0500, "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
wrote:

>Blake Hyde <syr...@themailserviceofferedbygoogle.com> wrote:
>> I think it's more likely that the gaming industry just cares more
>> about awards garnered from its own media outlets than from an
>> arbitrary group of people involved in another industry entirely,
>> many of whom are wholly ignorant of the intricacies of video games.
>
>Maybe so, but that doesn't explain why games got few nominations.
>That depends on what fans are interested in, not on what awards game
>companies are interested in.
>
>I'll admit that I'm one of the Hugo nominators who left that section
>blank. I haven't played any videogames or computer games since Doom.

Certainly I left it blank.

I've basically never played a video game, unless Asteroids counts.
This doesn't mean I look down on people who do. But it does mean I
DON"T GIVE A BLEEPING DAMN about the category. And I really truly
don't think it's a sensible Hugo category. Sensible for some group to
give awards? Sure. But not us.

Evelyn C. Leeper

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 12:00:51 AM3/23/06
to
Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Blake Hyde <syr...@themailserviceofferedbygoogle.com> wrote:
>
>>I think it's more likely that the gaming industry just cares more
>>about awards garnered from its own media outlets than from an
>>arbitrary group of people involved in another industry entirely,
>>many of whom are wholly ignorant of the intricacies of video games.
>
> Maybe so, but that doesn't explain why games got few nominations.
> That depends on what fans are interested in, not on what awards game
> companies are interested in.

It could be that gaming fans don't nominate for Hugos, particularly
since up until now there has been no gaming category. Adding one for
one year won't change that behavior overnight.

Karl Johanson

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 12:35:22 AM3/23/06
to
"John Pelan" <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote in message

> Not to split hairs, but I use "snubbed" in the context of being


> overlooked/ignored. By no means do I imply malice on the part of the
> readership; it's simply that Wilson has produced a string of very
> impressive novels (and short stories) that have been accorded the
> publicity budget and advertising push that you would normally
> associate with the reprint of an obscure 1960s novel.
>
> Do take a look at the number of times he's been a finalist for a major
> award and not won. I won't say that in all cases he should have, but
> he does seem to have an almost Silverbergian track record of being on
> th efinal ballot and coming up short. I think if you read all of
> Wilson's work, you'll agree that he's definitely one of our very best.

I interviewed Robert Charles Wilson for Under the Ozone Hole in 1992.
For some reason I neglected to actually forget to send him a copy of the
issue the interview was in. It completely escaped my mind, until I saw
the listing for him & Robert Sawyer doing readings in Victoria last
year. I brought a copy for him to the reading and he had a great laugh.
New meanings to RSN.

Karl Johanson


Blake Hyde

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 12:56:14 AM3/23/06
to
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.arts.sf.written.]

On 2006-03-23, Evelyn C. Leeper <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> Blake Hyde <syr...@themailserviceofferedbygoogle.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I think it's more likely that the gaming industry just cares more
>>>about awards garnered from its own media outlets than from an
>>>arbitrary group of people involved in another industry entirely,
>>>many of whom are wholly ignorant of the intricacies of video games.
>>
>> Maybe so, but that doesn't explain why games got few nominations.
>> That depends on what fans are interested in, not on what awards game
>> companies are interested in.
>
> It could be that gaming fans don't nominate for Hugos, particularly
> since up until now there has been no gaming category. Adding one for
> one year won't change that behavior overnight.
>
Well, there's really a glut of gaming-specific awards as is. There are
some significant pre-publication awards (E3 "Best of Show" awards tend
to be rated highly), as well as some magazines' high ratings and other
awards. PC Gamers' Game of the Year Award is pretty prestigious, for
example, and so on.

Mike Schilling

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 1:21:31 AM3/23/06
to

"Rich Horton" <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:297422hud2er3a449...@4ax.com...

> I've basically never played a video game, unless Asteroids counts.
> This doesn't mean I look down on people who do. But it does mean I
> DON"T GIVE A BLEEPING DAMN about the category. And I really truly
> don't think it's a sensible Hugo category. Sensible for some group to
> give awards? Sure. But not us.

You're less of a snob than I am. If there's a Hugo for best bleeping video
game, why not for best futuristic car commercial, or best fast-food
marketing tie-in with an SF movie?


Blake Hyde

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 1:23:37 AM3/23/06
to
["Followup-To:" header set to rec.arts.sf.written.]
It's a bit odd to be "snobbish" over speculative fiction. There are
great video games with strong narratives and interesting locations;
it's not all Madden 2006, Grand Theft Auto, and "The Guy Game." Do
you think Half-Life 2 is somehow less valid because of its medium than
a potboiler SF novel?

Kevin Standlee

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 1:37:27 AM3/23/06
to

The simplest version of the revised rules is that the Award Sponsor (the
publisher of ANALOG, and specifically the editor of that magazine)
wanted the definition of "professional" expanded. Remember that the JWC
is not a Hugo Award and its rules are not legislated by WSFS, but are
administered by the Worldcon in conjunction with the Hugo Awards. The
Hugo Awards Administrators these past several years have worked with
Stan Schmidt to work out how an expressed desire to make certainly types
of work that were may have heretofore been classed as "semi-pro" as
"professional."

The 10,000-copy rule was getting increasingly unworkable anyway, due to
changes in the way fiction is distributed. I note that the proposed
split of Best Professional Editor eliminates the "10,000 copy" wording
entirely and leaves the definition of "professional" to the judgment of
the voters.

--
---
Kevin Standlee
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kevin_standlee/

htn963

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 6:16:00 AM3/23/06
to

Mike Schilling wrote:
> "Rich Horton" <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:297422hud2er3a449...@4ax.com...
>
> > I've basically never played a video game, unless Asteroids counts.
> > This doesn't mean I look down on people who do. But it does mean I
> > DON"T GIVE A BLEEPING DAMN about the category. And I really truly
> > don't think it's a sensible Hugo category. Sensible for some group to
> > give awards? Sure. But not us.

Heh. When I read this, I couldn't help but think how it sounded
like: "Why I'm not prejudiced. In fact, some of my best friends
are..."

> You're less of a snob than I am. If there's a Hugo for best bleeping video
> game, why not for best futuristic car commercial, or best fast-food
> marketing tie-in with an SF movie?

You two disappoint me. Snobbery is tiresome enough, but to be a
snob in a subject on which one has practically no knowledge or
experience.

The video game industry rakes in more bucks now than movies, TV
and books combined. The majority of its titles have SF and/or fantasy
elements. Sturgeon's Law does apply with greater force in video games
than books since the medium has only taken off within the last two
decades, but already there have been many titles whole length, visual
designs, and dialog quantity and quality rivals most SF movies and
dramatic presentations, unless you wish to dismiss those Hugo
categories too.

May I suggest, Mr. Horton, that you take just .01% of the time you
spend now per year to read those thousands of short stories and
hundreds of books and invest it in the better video games, and you just
might be suprised how much your horizon as an SF reviewer has expanded.

(And BTW, Mr. Schilling, you may be interested to know that this
April 1, there will be an official anouncement of a video game
adaptation of "The Mountains of Mourning". It will feature interactive,
multi-threaded dialogs as Miles goes about to solve a murder mystery,
rather like the format of the Gabriel Knight adventure games. There is
a bonus option for Miles to grow taller and become less irritating as
he picks up bonus boosters scattered in the mountainous landscape along
the way.)

--
Ht

htn963

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 6:41:53 AM3/23/06
to

John Lorentz wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2006 21:44:21 -0800, "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Didn't I hear the Hugo just added a category for video games? Or
> >is that next year? My vote would go to Knights of the Old Republic II
> >(not the first one), which contains many enjoyable and
> >thought-provoking dialogues, especially on the interactions and
> >ambiguities between the Light, Dark, and Null sides of the Force.

>
> L.A.con IV added a "Best Interactive Video Game" category this year,
> but it's been cancelled due to a very low turnout in the nomination
> voting.

I recall seeing many enthusiastic comments from video gamers
(especially at gamespot.com) who were glad to see that this medium has
finally been recognized and validated as a viable art form by a major
award. But I suppose they only have themselves to blame for not
turning out in greater force to support this award category.

>It looks like it just wasn't the right time for this category.

Ironically, I can't help but suspect that if this category had
been set up *sooner*, during the big years of Halo or Knight of the Old
Republic One (a superior Star Wars work to the last three movies), it
would have taken off.

--
Ht

Rich Horton

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 7:23:38 AM3/23/06
to
On 23 Mar 2006 03:16:00 -0800, "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:

> You two disappoint me. Snobbery is tiresome enough, but to be a
>snob in a subject on which one has practically no knowledge or
>experience.

I am not being a snob.

Read what I wrote.

Try to comprehend.

I am saying, very simply, "I have practically no knowledge or
experience of the subject. Therefore, I DON'T CARE, and I DON'T THINK
I SHOULD decide on awards for it. And, in fact, I don't think it's
appropriate to give it a Hugo, mainly because I think it's
fundamentally a different (not better or worse) thing than what Hugo's
should be given for."

Where oh where in anything I wrote is there the merest HINT of
snobbery on this subject?

Jeez.

tstidm

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 9:07:53 AM3/23/06
to

Evelyn,

I agree with your thoughts on this matter. If there was an
Animation category, it wouldn't make me more likely to vote for the
Hugos as a whole. I am going to vote in a couple of categories since I
am a LA Con IV Associate Member. I would like to find the short
stories and read them before I vote. Where can I find the short story
category nominees? Is there a website where I can read the short story
nominees?

Evelyn C. Leeper

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 9:23:24 AM3/23/06
to
tstidm wrote:
>
> I agree with your thoughts on this matter. If there was an
> Animation category, it wouldn't make me more likely to vote for the
> Hugos as a whole. I am going to vote in a couple of categories since I
> am a LA Con IV Associate Member. I would like to find the short
> stories and read them before I vote. Where can I find the short story
> category nominees? Is there a website where I can read the short story
> nominees?

Check back on the L.A.con IV website in a few weeks. Usually all (or
almost all) of the Hugo-nominated short fiction (short stories,
novelettes, and novellas) shows up on-line for the voters' convenience,
and the Worldcon site usually provides links to them (as well as to
fanzine sites, artists' sites, etc.) (The reason it's almost all is
that each author gets to decide and some are more protective/worried
than others. Last year I think the only one not available free was
available as a $2.50 electronic download.)

However, I can tell you that every piece that did not appear in F&SF,
Asimov's, or Interzone is already on-line free somewhere--I found them
all by googling individually. (I get those three magazines, so I wanted
to check if I could get the other pieces.) For example, Michael
Burstein has his two stories posted on his web site, the Waldrop is in
the SciFiction archive, and so on. I suspect some of the others are up
as well, but I haven't looked.

(I just bought SPIN at a booksale the day before the nominations were
announced, which is a sort of synchronicity. And my library system
actually has all five novels in any case.)

Wayne Throop

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 10:57:30 AM3/23/06
to
: Rich Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net>
: I am saying, very simply, "I have practically no knowledge or

: experience of the subject. Therefore, I DON'T CARE, and I DON'T THINK
: I SHOULD decide on awards for it. And, in fact, I don't think it's
: appropriate to give it a Hugo, mainly because I think it's
: fundamentally a different (not better or worse) thing than what Hugo's
: should be given for."
:
: Where oh where in anything I wrote is there the merest HINT of
: snobbery on this subject?

Well, you see, since science fiction is the *best* category of things
to be, saying that video games don't really fall into the category
is an insult to video games, based on snobbish elitism.

Um. I guess.


Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

Mike Schilling

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 10:59:06 AM3/23/06
to

"htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1143112560.3...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

> The video game industry rakes in more bucks now than movies, TV
> and books combined.

Then the order must be:

1. Video games
2. TV
3. Movies
4. Books

What does this suggest about relative quality?

> (And BTW, Mr. Schilling, you may be interested to know that this
> April 1, there will be an official anouncement of a video game
> adaptation of "The Mountains of Mourning". It will feature interactive,
> multi-threaded dialogs as Miles goes about to solve a murder mystery,
> rather like the format of the Gabriel Knight adventure games. There is
> a bonus option for Miles to grow taller and become less irritating as
> he picks up bonus boosters scattered in the mountainous landscape along
> the way.)

Heh.


Dan Kimmel

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 11:05:43 AM3/23/06
to

"Evelyn C. Leeper" <ele...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ubyUf.64$Za5...@fe11.lga...

> However, I can tell you that every piece that did not appear in F&SF,
> Asimov's, or Interzone is already on-line free somewhere--I found them
> all by googling individually. (I get those three magazines, so I wanted
> to check if I could get the other pieces.) For example, Michael
> Burstein has his two stories posted on his web site, the Waldrop is in
> the SciFiction archive, and so on. I suspect some of the others are up
> as well, but I haven't looked.
>
> (I just bought SPIN at a booksale the day before the nominations were
> announced, which is a sort of synchronicity. And my library system
> actually has all five novels in any case.)

And some of the other stuff (examples of artists' works, fanzines) turn up
as well.

I try to read the short fiction when I vote and usually read all the
nominees. (If I'm halfway through a novella and hate it, I assume the other
half isn't going to change my mind.)

With the novels, though, I try to track down a copy of each one and see if
it's something I'd actually consider reading. Some years it gets me to read
things I might not otherwise have, and I'm glad the nominations of, say,
"China Mountain Zhang" and "Mother of Storms" introduced me to new authors
to follow. But if I pick up a book and see that it's something I wouldn't
read even if you paid me (i.e., I'd even turn down the opportunity to review
it professionally) then it being on the Hugo ballot isn't going to make me
read it.

I'll have to see if any of the five are things that interest me. I hope
they do, but I find the Hugos increasingly useless as a guide as to what I
will like in SF.


Alexander Kay

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 12:19:41 PM3/23/06
to
In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

>In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,


>John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations

> Here's an oddity of the Hugos:

[snip]

> Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
>published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
>by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.

How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
of that last sentence? You know because you're in personal (virtual)
contact with PNH through various web-logs. But (as insular as fandom
sometimes seems), lots of Hugo voters are not in such close contact
with the book-publishing industry.

Note that I am definitely *not* saying that he is unworthy of a Hugo;
I think he ccertainly is worthy of at least a nomination. But it's
fundamentally an information-management problem. Few people *know*
what a good job he's doing.

Alexx


Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employers.
alexx@carolingiaSPAMBL@CK.org http://www.panix.com/~alexx
Those who dance are thought mad by those who hear not the music.
[Seen on a Nancy Button, www.nancybuttons.com]

Dan Kimmel

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 12:35:00 PM3/23/06
to

"Alexander Kay" <al...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dvulbd$im8$1...@reader2.panix.com...

> In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
writes:
>
> >In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
> >John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> >>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
> > Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
> >published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
> >by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
>
> How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
> of that last sentence? You know because you're in personal (virtual)
> contact with PNH through various web-logs. But (as insular as fandom
> sometimes seems), lots of Hugo voters are not in such close contact
> with the book-publishing industry.
>
> Note that I am definitely *not* saying that he is unworthy of a Hugo;
> I think he ccertainly is worthy of at least a nomination. But it's
> fundamentally an information-management problem. Few people *know*
> what a good job he's doing.
>

I'd take it one step further, although there is no hope of this view ever
being adopted at the World Con Business Meeting: I think few Hugo voters are
in a position to JUDGE what sort of job he -- or any other editor for that
matter -- is doing.

It's a de facto award that translates to: "my favorite magazine" or "my
favorite anthology."


David Friedman

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 12:50:10 PM3/23/06
to
In article <dvulbd$im8$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
Alexander Kay <al...@panix.com> wrote:

> In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
> >In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
> >John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> >>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
> > Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
> >published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
> >by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
>
> How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
> of that last sentence? You know because you're in personal (virtual)
> contact with PNH through various web-logs. But (as insular as fandom
> sometimes seems), lots of Hugo voters are not in such close contact
> with the book-publishing industry.
>
> Note that I am definitely *not* saying that he is unworthy of a Hugo;
> I think he ccertainly is worthy of at least a nomination. But it's
> fundamentally an information-management problem. Few people *know*
> what a good job he's doing.

Is the category "Best Editor" either intended as, or widely viewed as,
meaning "best magazine editor"? Has it commonly gone to book editors in
the past?

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores in April 2006.

Jenn Ridley

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 1:29:49 PM3/23/06
to
Alexander Kay <al...@panix.com> wrote:

>In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>>In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
>>John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>>>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
>> Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>
>[snip]
>
>> Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
>>published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
>>by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
>
>How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
>of that last sentence?

Because it says so in the book?

I've run across more than a few books which have "edited by: " on the
back of the title page. I don't know if that's a decision made by the
editor or the publisher, but *if* the Best Editor division passes, I
would expect that more publishers and editors would put that
information in the book.

jenn
--
Jenn Ridley : jri...@chartermi.net

James Nicoll

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 2:03:02 PM3/23/06
to
In article <o0q522h5t2q56svh1...@4ax.com>,

Jenn Ridley <jri...@chartermi.net> wrote:
>Alexander Kay <al...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>>
>>>In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
>>>John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>>>>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>>
>>> Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
>>>published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
>>>by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.

This is slightly wrong: pnh acquired all three but tnh saw
SPIN through to publication.

>>How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
>>of that last sentence?
>
>Because it says so in the book?

And for most imprints, there's only one or two editors:
Jim Baen is over at Baen (which is a rather handy coincidence of
names), Betsy Wollheim and Shiela Gilbert are at DAW, Ginjer
Buchanan is at Ace, Ellen Asher and Andrew Wheeler are at SFBC,
and so on. Tor is an odd case, employing a vast and shadowy
horde of editors.

If I suffered a terrible stroke and suddenly became
convince that good things could happen from me being involved
in a Worldcon, I would agitate for the con website to list every
editor in the business.

>I've run across more than a few books which have "edited by: " on the
>back of the title page. I don't know if that's a decision made by the
>editor or the publisher, but *if* the Best Editor division passes, I
>would expect that more publishers and editors would put that
>information in the book.
>
>jenn
>--
>Jenn Ridley : jri...@chartermi.net


--
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll

David Dyer-Bennet

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 2:10:32 PM3/23/06
to
Alexander Kay <al...@panix.com> writes:

> In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
> >In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
> >John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> >>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
> > Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
> >published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
> >by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
>
> How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
> of that last sentence?

Look inside the books. Tor gives editors the option of being credited
as the editor on all the books they edit, or not (at least those were
the terms of the choice when I last good first-hand info on it). So
if you look inside the particular books mentioned, you'll see it
credits Patrick.

The broader question, for any arbitrary book, there is no easy answer
to. One argument against the split could be that it could be viewed
as a "Best Tor Editor" Hugo.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd...@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

Joe Bernstein

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 6:03:18 PM3/23/06
to
In article <873bh9y...@gw.dd-b.net>, David Dyer-Bennet
<dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:

> Alexander Kay <al...@panix.com> writes:

> > In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
> > writes:

> > > All of the books
> > >published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
> > >by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.

> > How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
> > of that last sentence?

> Look inside the books. Tor gives editors the option of being credited

> The broader question, for any arbitrary book, there is no easy answer
> to. One argument against the split could be that it could be viewed
> as a "Best Tor Editor" Hugo.

Only until other publishers started imitating Tor. A Hugo that was
always won by Tor because of something like this strikes me as a good
incentive... Gee, maybe *now* I can see a reason to spend money on
Worldcon memberships.

On the one hand, I admit this is a mildly selfish thing for me to
want them to do. It would be helpful to me in picking books if I
could correlate editors' tastes, and it would be *very* helpful to me
as an ostensible historian to have access to this sort of info without
needing to dig into proprietary files. (Though who knows how reliable
it'd be... Do we have substantial confirming/disproving info on the
Tor sample?)

On the other hand, it's not like it's a huge burden or that likely
to be used only by me. Surely there are other people who look at
copyright pages already. And those pages already often credit
people like artists.

In fact I wish they did more of that. Some years ago I was in the
middle of a reading project on Greco-Roman history, and posted a
review of the book I'd picked about Alexander. The biggest thing
I remember about that book is that it had maps to die for. Since
then, I've paid some attention to who does what mapmaking in books
in general, and come to the firm conclusion that maps in fantasy
novels should either be signed or be credited on the copyright
page, so I could know who to blame, or in rarer cases know on whose
behalf to write to multiple publishers saying "Hire *her* please!!!"

Joe Bernstein

--
Joe Bernstein, writer j...@sfbooks.com
<http://www.panix.com/~josephb/> "She suited my mood, Sarah Mondleigh
did - it was like having a kitten in the room, like a vote for unreason."
<Glass Mountain>, Cynthia Voigt

Marilee J. Layman

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 7:04:11 PM3/23/06
to
On 23 Mar 2006 03:41:53 -0800, "htn963" <htn...@verizon.net> wrote:

Re: Gaming

> Ironically, I can't help but suspect that if this category had
>been set up *sooner*, during the big years of Halo or Knight of the Old
>Republic One (a superior Star Wars work to the last three movies), it
>would have taken off.

Damning with faint praise.
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com/

Marilee J. Layman

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 7:07:37 PM3/23/06
to
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:19:41 +0000 (UTC), Alexander Kay
<al...@panix.com> wrote:

>In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>>In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
>>John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>>>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>
>> Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>
>[snip]
>
>> Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
>>published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
>>by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
>
>How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
>of that last sentence? You know because you're in personal (virtual)
>contact with PNH through various web-logs. But (as insular as fandom
>sometimes seems), lots of Hugo voters are not in such close contact
>with the book-publishing industry.

TNH edited _Spin_. I started Bova's _Jupiter_ last night and on the
copyright page, it says "Edited by Patrick Nielsen Hayden."

>Note that I am definitely *not* saying that he is unworthy of a Hugo;
>I think he ccertainly is worthy of at least a nomination. But it's
>fundamentally an information-management problem. Few people *know*
>what a good job he's doing.
>
>Alexx
>
>
>Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employers.
>alexx@carolingiaSPAMBL@CK.org http://www.panix.com/~alexx
>Those who dance are thought mad by those who hear not the music.
> [Seen on a Nancy Button, www.nancybuttons.com]

Marilee J. Layman

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 7:11:21 PM3/23/06
to
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:23:24 -0500, "Evelyn C. Leeper"
<ele...@optonline.net> wrote:

>the Waldrop is in
>the SciFiction archive

It's also half of the Capclave 2005 chapbook.

John Lorentz

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 6:56:00 PM3/23/06
to
On 22 Mar 2006 22:02:40 -0500, "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
wrote:

>John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>> L.A.con IV added a "Best Interactive Video Game" category this year,
>> but it's been cancelled due to a very low turnout in the nomination

>> voting. It looks like it just wasn't the right time for this category.
>
>Please tell us how many nominations were received. I know this
>information is usually embargoed until after the Hugo ceremony, but
>since there's no way the information on this category can bias the
>voting, there's no good reason not to reveal it immediately. Thanks.

Actually, no--that info is traditionally included on the ballot (which
will be going out in a week or two in PR #4).

Looking at the numbers in the ballot here on my computer:

We received 533 valid nominating ballots.

Of those ballots, 58 (roughly 11%) nominated at least one game (98
nominations total).

The next lowest categorey was Fan Artst, with 158 people (30%) listing
at least one nomination (352 nominations total).

The highest number was for Novel, with 430 ballots listing at least
one nomination (1376 nominations total).


(Just as an FYI: Section 3.11.2 says that any category on the Final
ballot that receives votes on less that 25% of the ballots is an
automatic "No Award." That doesn't come into play here--we used
Section 3.6--but it is a useful comparison.)

---
John
(L.A. con IV Hugo COunter)

Ben Yalow

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 7:32:39 PM3/23/06
to

>In article <dvulbd$im8$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
> Alexander Kay <al...@panix.com> wrote:

>> In <dvs1gk$d70$1...@reader2.panix.com> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>>
>> >In article <88m122dme8plr6lsr...@4ax.com>,
>> >John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>> >>2006 Hugo & Campbell Awards Nominations
>>
>> > Here's an oddity of the Hugos:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > Three of these were published by Tor. All of the books
>> >published by Tor that were nominated for the Hugo were edited
>> >by Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
>>
>> How would the average Hugo voter have any way of knowing the facts
>> of that last sentence? You know because you're in personal (virtual)
>> contact with PNH through various web-logs. But (as insular as fandom
>> sometimes seems), lots of Hugo voters are not in such close contact
>> with the book-publishing industry.
>>
>> Note that I am definitely *not* saying that he is unworthy of a Hugo;
>> I think he ccertainly is worthy of at least a nomination. But it's
>> fundamentally an information-management problem. Few people *know*
>> what a good job he's doing.

>Is the category "Best Editor" either intended as, or widely viewed as,
>meaning "best magazine editor"? Has it commonly gone to book editors in
>the past?

It was specifically *not* intended as being "best magazine editor". It
came out of the old "Best Magazine" category, but the rules were
explicitly changed to include book editors, and the name changed to delete
the word "Magazine" from the category name. This was done at the Business
Meeting at LAcon (1972).

There was a later change to the category, to put a copy count of 10,000 as
the line between professional and non-professional publication, which came
in as part of the fanzine/semi-prozine split at Chicon IV (1982) (ratified
Constellation, 1983). But that didn't affect the 1972 change -- the
category stopped being Best Magazine in 1973.

However, it has pretty much gone to magazine editors, almost except when
book editors die. It went to Ben Bova (Analog) in 1973-77. Then George
Scithers (Asimov), then Bova again, then Scithers again, then Ed Ferman
(F&SF) in 1981-83. SHawna McCarthy (Asimov) got it in 1984. Then the two
anomalies -- Terry Carr in 1985, and Judy Lynn Del Rey in 1986 (Lester Del
Rey rejected the award at the ceremony, on the grounds that Judy Lynn had
died recently, and would have objected to a sympathy Hugo, which he said
she would have felt this was). And Carr won it again in 1987, the year
that *he* died.

In 1988, Dozois (Asimov) started his string (1988-2004), which was
interrupted only by Kris Rusch (F&SF) in 1994, and Ellen Datlow in 2002.
Datlow, in 2002, was editor of the Year's Best Fantasy anthology. SHe'd
also been the SF editor at Omni in the 90s, and Event Horizon (an online
magazine) in the late 90s. In 2002, she was editor at scifi.com, the
online web site for the SCIFI Channel.

So, with very few exceptions, it's been won by magazine editors. But it's
*not* restricted to them, and the wording of the category has been
Professional Editor since 1973.


>--
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
> Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
> Published by Baen, in bookstores in April 2006.

Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody

Evelyn C. Leeper

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 9:12:30 PM3/23/06
to
Marilee J. Layman wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:23:24 -0500, "Evelyn C. Leeper"
> <ele...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>>the Waldrop is in
>>the SciFiction archive
>
>
> It's also half of the Capclave 2005 chapbook.

Of course, that's even less accesible to most fans than the Web.

Still, I'm always happy to see Waldrop available more places.

David Friedman

unread,
Mar 23, 2006, 9:42:15 PM3/23/06
to
In article <dvv9fm$7bl$1...@reader2.panix.com>,
Joe Bernstein <j...@sfbooks.com> wrote:

> Since
> then, I've paid some attention to who does what mapmaking in books
> in general, and come to the firm conclusion that maps in fantasy
> novels should either be signed or be credited on the copyright
> page, so I could know who to blame, or in rarer cases know on whose
> behalf to write to multiple publishers saying "Hire *her* please!!!"

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/harald/Kaerlia-large.jpg

The artist is Chris Porter, to whom I am very grateful.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.

Published by Baen, in bookstores now