two or three degrees...
FitchDonS
[This is being sent to the TimeBinders' List, as well as posted
to rasff.]
Of peripheral interest to fanhistorians:
The current (11 Jan '99) issue of _The New Yorker_ contains an
article by Malcolm Gladwell, titled "Six Degrees of Lois
Weisberg". She's the 73-year-old Commissioner of Cultural
Affairs for the City of Chicago... and also one of those people
who "knows everyone" -- those who are within a maximum of three
steps of removal (rather than the usual/average six steps) from
something like 90 percent of the people in the world. Gladwell
writes not so much about her as about this broader phenomenon,
and about the probability that most of the beneficial things
that happen in human society hinge directly on a very small
number of people like this -- people who move in more than just
one or two distinct interest-circles, know many hundreds (or
several thousands) of people, are _interested_ in people and
what they do, and who interconnect those individuals. This
article is high-level Journalism, by today's standards, and
reminds me of how good I think the New Yorker _used_ to be.
Some pertinent quotes:
|Once, in the mid-fifties, on a whim, Lois took the train to New
|York to attend the World Science Fiction Convention and there
|she met a young writer by the name of Arthur C. Clarke. Clarke
|took a shine to Lois, and the next time he was in Chicago he
|called her up. "He was at a pay phone," Lois recalls. "He
|said, 'Is there anyone in Chicago I should meet?' I told him
|to come over to my house." [...] "I called [someone, and
|asked]". "He said, 'Yeah, Isaac Asimov is in town. And this
|guy Robert, Robert... Robert Heinlein.' So they all came over
|and sat in my study." [...]
------
That would've been NYcon II, in 1956, I suppose... and now I'm
wondering who I know who might've been there, so I'd be only 3
steps removed from all the people Lois Weisberg knows.
[I should mention out that Gladwell makes a point of indicating
that Lois is _not_ a name-dropper or a lion/celebrity-hunter --
her life simply revolves largely around people who do things,
and he's merely picked out names he thought the readers would
recognize (and certainly all literate/literary & sophisticated
people today are familiar with "Clarke", "Asimov", &
"Heinlein"). Apparently she's always had money, and lived in
large houses where she could (and did) invite people to live for
a while -- including the young Lenny Bruce (whose stage act she
didn't much like because of his coarse language), Nichelle
Nichols, and dozens of others, including some people whose names
she never did learn.]
To carry the Gladwell/Milgram/Granovetter considerations of the
networks of social relationships further (or closer to home),
I'd suggest that fandom has contained an unusually large number
of such "nexus people" (I can't, at the moment, think of a
better description), with Bjo Trimble being the primary one in
my experience (but also Dean Dickensheet, Mike Gunderloy, Geri
Sullivan, and others), but also _groups_ which perform the same
function -- the participants in the _Cry of The Nameless Ones_
Letter Column (or even the FOSFAX one), for example, and the
FAPA & other APAs, and more recently the newsgroup
rec.arts.sf.fandom. Indeed, it's not (I think) far-fetched to
suggest that Fandom itself performs this yenta/catalytic/cross-
pollination function. We all have something (ineffable and
impossible to pin down precisely, perhaps) in common, yet most
of us also live in other, different, worlds, and bring aspects,
ideas, and people, from them into this one, enriching the lives
and expanding the horizons of all concerned.
Don Fitch,
who seems to be getting a bit carried away by the use of commas.
--
Mitch Wagner
fitc...@aol.com says...
> yet most
> of us also live in other, different, worlds, and bring aspects,
> ideas, and people, from them into this one, enriching the lives
> and expanding the horizons of all concerned.
To what extent is that true, though?
Disclaimer: My only significant fannish activity is what you're looking
at right here - online fandom - although I've been to a couple of cons
and liked them just fine I haven't been to very many, and I don't filk,
or get involved in costuming, or APAs, or hardcopy fanzines, or gaming,
etc. etc. etc.
Anyway, so I'm something of an outsider to fandom, and when I read rasff
and other online forums, I am struck by the number of people who say that
all, or most, of their significant personal relationships are with other
fans. See the recent thread on finding boyfriends and girlfriends, for
instance.
Although it does occur to me that perhaps I'm mistaking a vocal minority
for the vast majority.
--
mitch w. thri...@sff.net
http://www.sff.net/people/mitchw
"If the critics unanimously take exception to one particular scene it
is advisable to move that scene to a more conspicuous place in the
program." -- Noel Coward
Mitch Wagner
> In article <19990110223701...@ng54.aol.com>,
> fitc...@aol.com says...
>
> > yet most
> > of us also live in other, different, worlds, and bring aspects,
> > ideas, and people, from them into this one, enriching the lives
> > and expanding the horizons of all concerned.
>
> To what extent is that true, though?
>
< . . . >
> Anyway, so I'm something of an outsider to fandom, and when I read rasff
> and other online forums, I am struck by the number of people who say that
> all, or most, of their significant personal relationships are with other
> fans. See the recent thread on finding boyfriends and girlfriends, for
> instance.
>
> Although it does occur to me that perhaps I'm mistaking a vocal minority
> for the vast majority.
... and it also occurs to me that perhaps I'm reading too far into the
point.
Fandom is the one community that I'm involved in whose members come from
a great many social and economic classes, religious beliefs, careers, and
nations. So if you're an sf fan in Los Angeles and looking to find a guy
in Madrid, Spain, chances are that someone you know from fandom will at
least know somebody in Spain, and that's a start. And maybe that was the
only point that Don Fitch was trying to make.
(My view of con-going fandom is colored by the widely divergent
experiences I've had at the few cons I've attended--I've been to some
where I was greeted like a long-lost brother, and others where I was
greeted like a tax assessor. Of course I realize that both I and fandom
are unique in this regard--nobody else ever has any hobbies where they
have a great time sometimes, and other times they have a lousy time.
Like golf for instance.)(But seriously, it does seem that my experiences
at sf conventions have been more prone to extremes than other
activities.)
Aahz Maruch
FitchDonS <fitc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>The current (11 Jan '99) issue of _The New Yorker_ contains an article
>by Malcolm Gladwell, titled "Six Degrees of Lois Weisberg". She's
>the 73-year-old Commissioner of Cultural Affairs for the City of
>Chicago... and also one of those people who "knows everyone" -- those
>who are within a maximum of three steps of removal (rather than the
>usual/average six steps) from something like 90 percent of the people
>in the world.
The interesting thing is that if one knows a Lois Weisberg, one is then
a maximum of four degrees from everyone else. If one knows two
Weisbergs, chances are pretty good that you've just dropped your typical
to two or three.
For example, I know that I'm two degrees from Bill Gates, so that puts
me within three degrees of a large number of powerful and/or influential
people. That means many of the people reading this post are at most
three degrees from those people.
The cross-connections within fandom are broad, and the vast majority of
fannish people have at least a few connections outside fandom. I think
that anyone who's active in fandom almost certainly has a maximum of
four degrees, and many of us are at the three degree level.
That's not even talking about the ability everyone reading this post has
to send random e-mail to any identifiable person with a known e-mail
address. (Which reminded me to send e-mail to David Gerrold, but that's
another story. ;-)
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> -=> http://www.rahul.net/aahz
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
"Perhaps God rewards martyrs, but life seldom does..." --Ulrika O'Brien
Alison Hopkins
Aahz Maruch wrote in message ...
>That's not even talking about the ability everyone reading this post has
>to send random e-mail to any identifiable person with a known e-mail
>address. (Which reminded me to send e-mail to David Gerrold, but that's
>another story. ;-)
>--
That's odd, I just did that same thing. This means you and I are only one
connection apart, hm?
Ali
Aahz Maruch
Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch wrote in message ...
>>
>>That's not even talking about the ability everyone reading this post has
>>to send random e-mail to any identifiable person with a known e-mail
>>address. (Which reminded me to send e-mail to David Gerrold, but that's
>>another story. ;-)
>
>connection apart, hm?
Depends whether degrees are one-based or zero-based; I've always assumed
they were one-based, so our connection through David Gerrold is two
degrees. Of course, we know each other directly through rasseff, so
that's just one degree.
Alter S. Reiss
> >
> >The current (11 Jan '99) issue of _The New Yorker_ contains an article
> >by Malcolm Gladwell, titled "Six Degrees of Lois Weisberg". She's
> >the 73-year-old Commissioner of Cultural Affairs for the City of
> >Chicago... and also one of those people who "knows everyone" -- those
> >who are within a maximum of three steps of removal (rather than the
> >usual/average six steps) from something like 90 percent of the people
> >in the world.
[lost original post]
I just want to note that I very much doubt that anyone is within
three steps of 90 percent of the people in the world; while she may know
someone who knows someone who knows a potter in Bangladesh, or a rice
farmer in Rangoon, the chances of knowing most of the people in Hunan
province by one or two or five degrees seem low; most of the people on the
planet. . . Well, China, India, and throw in Indonesia makes more than
half the world population. Most of the people in those countries have
really local social nets, and the chances of penetrating more than half of
those nets by three degrees seem rather low.
--
Alter S. Reiss --- www.geocities.com/Area51/2129 --- asr...@ymail.yu.edu
"Allright, I think I've figured it out. It can go up
or down, but not side-to-side or backwards in time."
Alison Hopkins
Aahz Maruch wrote in message ...
>Depends whether degrees are one-based or zero-based; I've always assumed
>they were one-based, so our connection through David Gerrold is two
>degrees. Of course, we know each other directly through rasseff, so
>that's just one degree.
>--
True, I hadn't thought of that. I think if you tried to start diagramming
all these connections, my brain would turn to mush. <g>
Ali
David Goldfarb
Alter S. Reiss <asr...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
)> FitchDonS <fitc...@aol.com> wrote:
)> >
)> >The current (11 Jan '99) issue of _The New Yorker_ contains an article
)> >by Malcolm Gladwell, titled "Six Degrees of Lois Weisberg". She's
)> >the 73-year-old Commissioner of Cultural Affairs for the City of
)> >Chicago... and also one of those people who "knows everyone" -- those
)> >who are within a maximum of three steps of removal (rather than the
)> >usual/average six steps) from something like 90 percent of the people
)> >in the world.
)
)[lost original post]
)
) I just want to note that I very much doubt that anyone is within
)three steps of 90 percent of the people in the world[...]
If memory serves, the original "six degrees" was within the US
only. To get to "anyone in the world" increased the steps to something
like eight or ten.
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | Laugh hard, it's a long way to the bank."
gold...@UCBOCF.BITNET |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- TMBG
FitchDonS
On 11 Jan, in message <MPG.11044aabdeb833d39897de@news>,
Mitch Wagner wrote:
<snip citing himself citing me>
>>>yet most of us also live in other, different, worlds, and
>>>bring aspects, ideas, and people, from them into this one,
>>>enriching the lives and expanding the horizons of all
>>>concerned.
>>
>>To what extent is that true, though?
>>
>
>< . . . >
>
>>Anyway, so I'm something of an outsider to fandom, and when I
>>read rasff and other online forums, I am struck by the number
>>of people who say that all, or most, of their significant
>>personal relationships are with other fans. See the recent
>>thread on finding boyfriends and girlfriends, for instance.
>>
>>Although it does occur to me that perhaps I'm mistaking a
>>vocal minority for the vast majority.
>
>
>... and it also occurs to me that perhaps I'm reading too far
>into the point.
>
>Fandom is the one community that I'm involved in whose members
>come from a great many social and economic classes, religious
>beliefs, careers, and nations.
>[...]
That's the aspect I had in mind. It may be true of more than
just a small vocal minority (or of "Fandom is a Way of Life"
fans) that we tend, over the years, to form most of our closest
personal relationships with other fans, but I think the vast
majority of us do maintain substantial intellectual & social
contact with at least _some_ other interest groups -- and a wide
range of them, at that. There are, for a few examples, fans (or
ex-fans known to me or many fans I know) who are (or once were)
active in the fields of professional s-f writing, physics,
train-spotting, computerism (including the internet not-a-
Cabal), Gilbert & Sullivan fandom, Sherlock Holmes fandom,
popular music, the SCA, various historical & battle-recreation
groups, publishing, antiquarian book-collecting, &cet, _ad
omniumque_, almost.
I agree, however, with the major doubt some have expressed;
there are probably enormously many people in the world who know,
at the most, one or two people who've met anyone who has had
contacts with anyone living more than 50 miles or so from where
they were born.
Indeed, the most recent presentations of the "6 Degrees" thing
I've seen all mention an _average_ of that many steps (& I'm not
certain if it starts with 0 or 1). Also germane is the point of
how "know" is to be defined. Been introduced to..., exchanged a
few words with..., know well enough to ask a favor of... shaken
hands with... have all, at various times, been included.
E.g.: my mother, when a young woman, "met" (was introduced to)
Samuel L. Clemens/Mark Twain, which puts me 3 steps from most of
the major US (& some other countries') literary figures and
political leaders of an earlier era. I've met fan & pop music
critic Paul Williams, who's interviewed or knows many people in
the music field, including the Beatles, who met the Queen of
England and at least one President of the US, both of whom met
many people, including....
It's an interesting conceit, but I don't think it's wise to
carry the idea that "meet" or "know", in this context, so far as
to suggest real & significant _communication_, certainly not
with the vast majority of people in say, China, India, & Africa.
I find much more interesting & useful the theory (in the New
Yorker article by Gladwell) that a few people who "know
everyone" are the real movers & shakers in the operation of a
society.
Don Fitch.
who thinks that most "active fans" know (for some flavor of that
word) at least five times as many people as the average
individual does, and that these represent a much greater variety
of background, culture, and social status than are incorporated
in most people's acquaintanceships.
--
Ed Dravecky III
<snipped for sapce>
> I've met fan & pop music critic Paul Williams, who's
> interviewed or knows many people in the music field, including
> the Beatles, who met the Queen of England and at least one
> President of the US, both of whom met many people, including....
When I was first introduced to this game, the object was to
think of a way to get a note passed to the President of the
United States. This meant you couldn't use a famous person
you'd met only in passing but people (or at least one person)
you *knew* well enough to accept the note and the mission.
I was stunned to realize that I could, if pressed, do this via
the assistant scoutmaster of my Boy Scout troop. His wife was a
top-level person in the Democratic Party for Madison County and
had frequent contact with (then) Senator Howell Heflin (D, AL).
From there, I presumed, that the Senator could get to the White
House and deliver this hypothetical note.
The trick to the whole thing is not who you know but knowing who
the people that you know actually know.
--
Ed Dravecky III <*> dshe...@netcom.com
"Due South" fans, please visit http://www.rcw139.org/
David G. Bell
Isn't that an element in a Poul Anderson story?
Once upon a time, I knew a girl who studied martial arts under a sensei
who had an hereditary right of access to the Emperor of Japan.
I suppose that British filkers also have a collective channel to the UN,
though not to the Security Council.
And, in England at least, there is a fairly short chain via the parish
Anglican priest, through the Bishop and Archbishop. That's a pretty
solid chain too, as it's all within a single hierarchy.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
Kathy Routliffe
FitchDonS wrote:
>
> [This is being sent to the TimeBinders' List, as well as posted
> to rasff.]
>
> Of peripheral interest to fanhistorians:
>
> The current (11 Jan '99) issue of _The New Yorker_ contains an
> article by Malcolm Gladwell, titled "Six Degrees of Lois
> Weisberg". She's the 73-year-old Commissioner of Cultural
> Affairs for the City of Chicago... and also one of those people
> who "knows everyone" -- those who are within a maximum of three
> steps of removal (rather than the usual/average six steps) from
> something like 90 percent of the people in the world. Gladwell
> writes not so much about her as about this broader phenomenon,
> and about the probability that most of the beneficial things
> that happen in human society hinge directly on a very small
> number of people like this -- people who move in more than just
> one or two distinct interest-circles, know many hundreds (or
> several thousands) of people, are _interested_ in people and
> what they do, and who interconnect those individuals. This
> article is high-level Journalism, by today's standards, and
> reminds me of how good I think the New Yorker _used_ to be.
>
> Some pertinent quotes:
>
> |Once, in the mid-fifties, on a whim, Lois took the train to New
> |York to attend the World Science Fiction Convention and there
> |she met a young writer by the name of Arthur C. Clarke. Clarke
> |took a shine to Lois, and the next time he was in Chicago he
> |called her up. "He was at a pay phone," Lois recalls. "He
> |said, 'Is there anyone in Chicago I should meet?' I told him
> |to come over to my house." [...] "I called [someone, and
> |asked]". "He said, 'Yeah, Isaac Asimov is in town. And this
> |guy Robert, Robert... Robert Heinlein.' So they all came over
> |and sat in my study." [...]
Lois Weisberg? Wow! Fandom contains all things and people! And here I
thought I was interested in her only because of what she helps me enjoy
in Chicago.
Way cool!
(snip some more)
> To carry the Gladwell/Milgram/Granovetter considerations of the
> networks of social relationships further (or closer to home),
> I'd suggest that fandom has contained an unusually large number
> of such "nexus people" (I can't, at the moment, think of a
> better description), with Bjo Trimble being the primary one in
> my experience (but also Dean Dickensheet, Mike Gunderloy, Geri
> Sullivan, and others), but also _groups_ which perform the same
> function -- the participants in the _Cry of The Nameless Ones_
> Letter Column (or even the FOSFAX one), for example, and the
> FAPA & other APAs, and more recently the newsgroup
> rec.arts.sf.fandom. Indeed, it's not (I think) far-fetched to
> suggest that Fandom itself performs this yenta/catalytic/cross-
> pollination function. We all have something (ineffable and
> impossible to pin down precisely, perhaps) in common, yet most
> of us also live in other, different, worlds, and bring aspects,
> ideas, and people, from them into this one, enriching the lives
> and expanding the horizons of all concerned.
I like this idea. And I like your use of commas. Fandom as nexus people,
hmm? Nexans? Nexites?
Kathy
--
Now that you mention it, it *is* a great day!
Marilee J. Layman
III) wrote:
>When I was first introduced to this game, the object was to
>think of a way to get a note passed to the President of the
>United States. This meant you couldn't use a famous person
>you'd met only in passing but people (or at least one person)
>you *knew* well enough to accept the note and the mission.
This wouldn't be very hard in the DC area. I know a deputy
under-secretary of State, for example (he frequents our chat room and
we've met in person for pizza and movies). And I know the retired
general who was the head of the POW-MIA section for a while (our
families were friends many years and his daughter is one of my best
long-distance friends still). I know Lynn Martin (her right-hand
person's daughter was one of my special kids when I worked with teens)
-- she brought me a mirror from Japan (which I still have on my
vanity). If I thought more, I'd probably find more.
--
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
relm...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
Web site: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/
AOL keyword: BOOKs > Books Community > The Other*Worlds*Cafe (listbox)
Loren Joseph MacGregor
: In <dsheldonF...@netcom.com>, dshe...@netcom.com (Ed Dravecky
: III) wrote:
: >When I was first introduced to this game, the object was to
: >think of a way to get a note passed to the President of the
: >United States. This meant you couldn't use a famous person
: >you'd met only in passing but people (or at least one person)
: >you *knew* well enough to accept the note and the mission.
: This wouldn't be very hard in the DC area. I know a deputy
: under-secretary of State, for example (he frequents our chat room and
: we've met in person for pizza and movies). And I know the retired
: general who was the head of the POW-MIA section for a while (our
: families were friends many years and his daughter is one of my best
: long-distance friends still). I know Lynn Martin (her right-hand
: person's daughter was one of my special kids when I worked with teens)
: -- she brought me a mirror from Japan (which I still have on my
: vanity). If I thought more, I'd probably find more.
But then, many people on rec.arts.sf.fandom know Jon Singer, and
the whole issue is solved right there.
-- LJM
Rob Hansen
Goldfarb) wrote:
>In article <Pine.A41.4.05.990114...@acis.mc.yu.edu>,
>Alter S. Reiss <asr...@ymail.yu.edu> wrote:
>)> FitchDonS <fitc...@aol.com> wrote:
>)> >
>)> >The current (11 Jan '99) issue of _The New Yorker_ contains an article
>)> >by Malcolm Gladwell, titled "Six Degrees of Lois Weisberg". She's
>)> >the 73-year-old Commissioner of Cultural Affairs for the City of
>)> >Chicago... and also one of those people who "knows everyone" -- those
>)> >who are within a maximum of three steps of removal (rather than the
>)> >usual/average six steps) from something like 90 percent of the people
>)> >in the world.
>)
>)[lost original post]
>)
>) I just want to note that I very much doubt that anyone is within
>)three steps of 90 percent of the people in the world[...]
>
> If memory serves, the original "six degrees" was within the US
>only. To get to "anyone in the world" increased the steps to something
>like eight or ten.
It may well be only six in most of fandom, too. F'rinstance, I'm only
four handshakes away from Hitler, but I'm sure there are people on
this ng who are only three, and possibly even two, handshakes away.
This is how it goes:
me -> Vince Clarke -> Arthur C.Clarke -> Werner von Braun -> Hitler
Rob Hansen
================================================
My Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
Feminists Against Censorship:
http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/
Ed Dravecky III
> It may well be only six in most of fandom, too. F'rinstance, I'm only
> four handshakes away from Hitler, but I'm sure there are people on
> this ng who are only three, and possibly even two, handshakes away.
> This is how it goes:
> me -> Vince Clarke -> Arthur C.Clarke -> Werner von Braun -> Hitler
Eep. I knew Conrad Dannenberg (sp?) and a couple other members
of Von Braun's team from the L5 society when I was growing up in
Huntsville, Alabama. (We'd founded a "junior" chapter, the von
Braun chapter, and he was one of our adult leaders.)
Alter S. Reiss
> It may well be only six in most of fandom, too. F'rinstance, I'm only
> four handshakes away from Hitler, but I'm sure there are people on
> this ng who are only three, and possibly even two, handshakes away.
> This is how it goes:
>
> me -> Vince Clarke -> Arthur C.Clarke -> Werner von Braun -> Hitler
Well, in my case, it would probably go:
me -> My Grandfather -> his brother, Col. Sampson Reiss -> Stalin ->
Hitler.
Of course, Hitler's easy. A lot of people shook hands with
Hitler. Finding a connection to a specific barber in Kuala Lampur is a
bit trickier.
--
Alter S. Reiss --- www.geocities.com/Area51/2129 --- asr...@ymail.yu.edu
"And this time, try not to tell the assistant undertaker
that the deceased had contagious leprosy."
Doug Wickstrom
modulated the bit stream to say:
>But then, many people on rec.arts.sf.fandom know Jon Singer, and
>the whole issue is solved right there.
There _are_, of course, people who have never met him--me,
f'rinstance.
It does seem that everyone whom _I_ know knows him, though.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Tsuyu to ochi, tsuyu to kienishi. Waga mi ka na?
Naniwa no koto mo, yume mo matayume." --Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Mark Bernstein
>I think the vast
>majority of us do maintain substantial intellectual & social
>contact with at least _some_ other interest groups -- and a wide
>range of them, at that.
Indeed. One of the reasons I'm looking forward to the party we'll be
hosting next month is that it will, for the first time, mix my fannish
(and filkish) friends with my friends from community theater. Should
be a whole lot of fun.
Mark Bernstein
markbe...@hotmail.com
Ann Arbor, MI
Janice Gelb
Should be a good mix. I hung around with theatre people
before discovering fandom (both my dad and brother being
actors) and the two groups share a lot in terms of offbeat
personalities.
*********************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
1999 DUFF CANDIDATE: Ballot and writing samples available at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
Doug Wickstrom
<asr...@ymail.yu.edu> modulated the bit stream to say:
>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Rob Hansen wrote:
>
>> It may well be only six in most of fandom, too. F'rinstance, I'm only
>> four handshakes away from Hitler, but I'm sure there are people on
>> this ng who are only three, and possibly even two, handshakes away.
>> This is how it goes:
>>
>> me -> Vince Clarke -> Arthur C.Clarke -> Werner von Braun -> Hitler
>
> Well, in my case, it would probably go:
>
> me -> My Grandfather -> his brother, Col. Sampson Reiss -> Stalin ->
>Hitler.
>
> Of course, Hitler's easy. A lot of people shook hands with
>Hitler. Finding a connection to a specific barber in Kuala Lampur is a
>bit trickier.
Maybe. If this hypothetical barber has a name, there is some chance
that Phil Chee might know someone who knows someone, etc.
There was a period towards the end of my service career during which I
was serendipitously separated from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by
but a single link (which I never used, but probably should have, at
least once).
I opened up "Airman" magazine to an article about the new CoS, in
which there was a snapshot of him as a young sergeant standing in
front of a tent at Ft. Polk, Louisiana during early 1941. Next to him
was another young sergeant, unidentified.
It was an interesting experience to see my father staring back at me,
young enough to be my son.
Geri Sullivan
>
> >the whole issue is solved right there.
>
> There _are_, of course, people who have never met him--me,
> f'rinstance.
>
> It does seem that everyone whom _I_ know knows him, though.
Does this mean you also missed the blue mashed potatoes at Minicon 32?
Let's hope we can correct these deficiencies in the near future. If not
this year, perhaps next? Though knowing Jon, it's likely to be something
other than blue mashed potatoes....
Geri
--
Geri Sullivan g...@toad-hall.com
Doug Wickstrom
set electrons adance worldwide by saying:
>Doug Wickstrom wrote:
>>
>> On 17 Jan 1999 21:25:59 GMT, Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org>
>> modulated the bit stream to say:
>>
>> >But then, many people on rec.arts.sf.fandom know Jon Singer, and
>> >the whole issue is solved right there.
>>
>> There _are_, of course, people who have never met him--me,
>> f'rinstance.
>>
>> It does seem that everyone whom _I_ know knows him, though.
>
>Does this mean you also missed the blue mashed potatoes at Minicon 32?
I missed lots of things at M32, as I was doing the Ops thing during
prime socializing hours Th-Fr-Sa. OTOH, I spent several hours
shmoozing with the GOH one-on-one on Sa and Su. This is when _I_
decided that Minicon needed fixing. Out of 3,000 members, you'd think
there'd have been more interest in the opportunity to spend quality
time with one of the more brilliant and charming people I've ever met.
You have to remember that I didn't know a soul in Mpls fandom before
M32, and those few I knew elsewhere were all via electronic
correspondence. In fact, I may be the only active Mn-Stfer to have
been formally introduced to the Executive VP ico Executions by CJ
Cherryh, and it was on CJ's recommendation that I attended Minicon in
the first place. I didn't join Mn-Stf until several months after M32,
despite having worked on the convention pre-con (again on CJ's advice,
as a way of meeting people). Hmm. Come to think of it, CJ introduced
me to Dave Wixon and Ann Chancellor at the same time as to Steve.
--
Doug Wickstrom
"Soul of the age,
The applause, delight, the wonder of our stage,
My Shakespeare, rise! I will not lodge thee by
Chaucer or Spenser, or bid Beaumont lie
A little further, to make thee a room." --Ben Jonson
Philip Chee
>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:34:22 -0500, "Alter S. Reiss"
>> Of course, Hitler's easy. A lot of people shook hands with
>>Hitler. Finding a connection to a specific barber in Kuala Lampur is a
>>bit trickier.
>Maybe. If this hypothetical barber has a name, there is some chance
>that Phil Chee might know someone who knows someone, etc.
Actually since most barbers are members of their trade association, the
guys at my local barber might easily know or be able to contact their
colleagues in Kuala Lumpur!
Phil
---=====================================================================---
Philip Chee: Tasek Corporation Berhad, P.O.Box 254, 30908 Ipoh, MALAYSIA
e-mail: phi...@aleytys.pc.my Voice:+60-5-545-1011 Fax:+60-5-547-3932
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
---
ž 10043.26 ž A friend: someone who likes you even after they know you.
Rob Hansen
>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Rob Hansen wrote:
>
>> It may well be only six in most of fandom, too. F'rinstance, I'm only
>> four handshakes away from Hitler, but I'm sure there are people on
>> this ng who are only three, and possibly even two, handshakes away.
>> This is how it goes:
>>
>> me -> Vince Clarke -> Arthur C.Clarke -> Werner von Braun -> Hitler
>
> Well, in my case, it would probably go:
>
> me -> My Grandfather -> his brother, Col. Sampson Reiss -> Stalin ->
>Hitler.
>
> Of course, Hitler's easy. A lot of people shook hands with
>Hitler. Finding a connection to a specific barber in Kuala Lampur is a
>bit trickier.
Well, the trick is to get up to a world leader in as few steps as
possible. They've mostly all met, which gets you to any country you
want, then you get to the individual concerned in as few steps as
possible. Even without fandom, I'm probably within six degrees of
everyone on this ng. I've met my MP, who's met Tony Blair, who knows
Bill Clinton, etc....
Loren Joseph MacGregor
: Doug Wickstrom wrote:
: >
: > On 17 Jan 1999 21:25:59 GMT, Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org>
: >
: > >But then, many people on rec.arts.sf.fandom know Jon Singer, and
: > >the whole issue is solved right there.
: >
: > There _are_, of course, people who have never met him--me,
: > f'rinstance.
: >
: > It does seem that everyone whom _I_ know knows him, though.
: Does this mean you also missed the blue mashed potatoes at Minicon 32?
: Let's hope we can correct these deficiencies in the near future. If not
: this year, perhaps next? Though knowing Jon, it's likely to be something
: other than blue mashed potatoes....
We brought dinner to a local couple yesterday, which included a
hearty soup Lauryn made and a fresh-baked loaf of bread, part of the
batch intended for the tea sandwiches at the Tiptree Bakesale.
The bread was bright, emerald green. Bruce commented, "Oh, look!
It's made from leprechauns," to which there is, of course, only
one reply. "Certainly," I said. "They're magically delicious."
Not everyone has a spouse who makes bright green bread ... on purpose.
-- LJM
Leah Zeldes Smith
> Well, the trick is to get up to a world leader in as few steps as
> possible. They've mostly all met, which gets you to any country you
> want, then you get to the individual concerned in as few steps as
> possible. Even without fandom, I'm probably within six degrees of
> everyone on this ng. I've met my MP, who's met Tony Blair, who knows
> Bill Clinton, etc....
Between my job and fandom, I've met a fair number of
reasonably famous people (mainly cooks, politicians,
writers and entertainers). As it happens, I'm within
two degrees of Bill Clinton. I worked on Paul Simon's
erstwhile presidential campaign, so I met him, and I
imagine he knows the president, and I've met the mayor
of Chicago, ditto.
But beyond a few of the people I've interviewed and
written about at length, and the people I know through
fandom, I'd doubt if any of these celebrities has the
slightest recollection of me (though I expect I'm in a
Farley file at City Hall and Daley will do his best to
pretend to know who I am on the next official occasion
that I meet him), so the fact that I've met them is
pretty meaningless.
The criterion of "knowing well enough to ask a favor of"
is probably of more significance. I could probably get
to Bill Clinton that way, too, though it would take more
steps. And it would almost certainly start with a fan.
Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it
would be much more interesting to find out who here
connects to him on a Langdon chart.
Leah Zeldes Smith
Aahz Maruch
Leah Zeldes Smith <la...@enteract.com> wrote:
>
>Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it would be much
>more interesting to find out who here connects to him on a Langdon
>chart.
If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> -=> http://www.rahul.net/aahz
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
There may or may not be a smiley above.
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Rob Hansen wrote:
>> It may well be only six in most of fandom, too. F'rinstance, I'm only
>> four handshakes away from Hitler, but I'm sure there are people on
>> this ng who are only three, and possibly even two, handshakes away.
>> This is how it goes:
>>
>> me -> Vince Clarke -> Arthur C.Clarke -> Werner von Braun -> Hitler
> Well, in my case, it would probably go:
> me -> My Grandfather -> his brother, Col. Sampson Reiss -> Stalin ->
>Hitler.
I might be able to shorten it a bit for myself:
me -> my uncle Mark Zemansky -> Von Braun -> Hitler.
As for American presidents, I'd say I have 2 degree links in one or
two cases:
me -> my cousin who did an auditing project for the gov't -> Ronald Reagan
me -> my late congressman Ted Weiss -> Ford, Carter.
> Of course, Hitler's easy. A lot of people shook hands with
>Hitler. Finding a connection to a specific barber in Kuala Lampur is a
>bit trickier.
My grandfather had some friends in the Thai royal family who had gone
to City College; that might link me in to various East Asian countries.
--
Jonathan Baker | Why does Tebeth have 29 days?
jjb...@panix.com | No A"Z: we don't have a Lama in Tibet.
Loren Joseph MacGregor
Um ... I know the woman who manages the "Coffee Corner" up the block
from work.
-- LJM
Tim Illingworth
r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk "Rob Hansen" writes:
>Well, the trick is to get up to a world leader in as few steps as
>possible. They've mostly all met, which gets you to any country you
>want, then you get to the individual concerned in as few steps as
>possible. Even without fandom, I'm probably within six degrees of
>everyone on this ng. I've met my MP, who's met Tony Blair, who knows
>Bill Clinton, etc....
I was commenting on this subthread to Marcia, and she said, "Oh, I
know Al Gore." They were both active in the Democratic Party in
Tennessee some time ago. Next question: does Al Gore know Bill
Clinton?
For Republicans, it's easier to go via my mother-in-law, who was
similarly active in that party.
All the Best,
Tim
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Illingworth t...@smof.demon.co.uk Go not to Usenet for advice, for
Chessington, tim...@compuserve.com they will say both 'No' and 'Yes'
Surrey, UK 10014...@compuserve.com and 'Try Another Newsgroup'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David G. Bell
> In article <36A446C3...@enteract.com>,
> Leah Zeldes Smith <la...@enteract.com> wrote:
> >
> >Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it would be much
> >more interesting to find out who here connects to him on a Langdon
> >chart.
>
> If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
> good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
What _is_ a Langdon chart?
I saw Leah's initial reference, and was inclined to dirty sniggering,
but I don't think that many of us have connected with Monica...
Janice Gelb
>In article <aahzF5t...@netcom.com> aa...@netcom.com "Aahz Maruch" writes:
>
>> In article <36A446C3...@enteract.com>,
>> Leah Zeldes Smith <la...@enteract.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it would be much
>> >more interesting to find out who here connects to him on a Langdon
>> >chart.
>>
>> If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
>> good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
>
>What _is_ a Langdon chart?
>
>I saw Leah's initial reference, and was inclined to dirty sniggering,
>
Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
Ah, the 60s and 70s...
Aahz Maruch
David G. Bell <db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <aahzF5t...@netcom.com> aa...@netcom.com "Aahz Maruch" writes:
>> In article <36A446C3...@enteract.com>,
>> Leah Zeldes Smith <la...@enteract.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it would be much
>>>more interesting to find out who here connects to him on a Langdon
>>>chart.
>>
>> If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
>> good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
>
>What _is_ a Langdon chart?
It's a graph that starts with one node of a single person, with each
edge being a current or historical sexual relationship (your pick, but
usually the latter), and each new node having the process repeated on
it. Keep recursing until you've filled in the graph or discovered a
connection to a particular person (depending on your goal).
I don't make this mistake in writing, but I often *say* "Langston chart"
by accident.
>I saw Leah's initial reference, and was inclined to dirty sniggering,
>but I don't think that many of us have connected with Monica...
All it takes is one of us.
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 <*> -=> http://www.rahul.net/aahz
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het
"..., and some of you may regard all women as evil traps that exist
only to tease, torture, and suck out your very soul." --DrMax
Aahz Maruch
Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
>
>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
<blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
Bob Webber
...
: Well, the trick is to get up to a world leader in as few steps as
: possible. They've mostly all met, which gets you to any country you
: want, then you get to the individual concerned in as few steps as
: possible. Even without fandom, I'm probably within six degrees of
: everyone on this ng. I've met my MP, who's met Tony Blair, who knows
: Bill Clinton, etc....
Do former "world leaders" count? I've been two handshakes from
Idi Amin: used to work with a man named Barlowe who had been Deputy
Chief Inspector of Police in Uganda. IIRC (and if he told me the
truth at the time) he was in office before Amin took power, and
was forced to flee for his life some time afterwards.
In fact, I saw him on a TV news show after Amin was overthrown, and
he was then identified as the Chief Inspector at that later time.
I don't know how he fared in the subsequent rounds of trouble and
murder in Uganda's government.
Jonathan J. Baker
> r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk "Rob Hansen" writes:
>>Well, the trick is to get up to a world leader in as few steps as
>>possible. They've mostly all met, which gets you to any country you
>>want, then you get to the individual concerned in as few steps as
>>possible. Even without fandom, I'm probably within six degrees of
>>everyone on this ng. I've met my MP, who's met Tony Blair, who knows
>>Bill Clinton, etc....
>I was commenting on this subthread to Marcia, and she said, "Oh, I
>know Al Gore." They were both active in the Democratic Party in
>Tennessee some time ago. Next question: does Al Gore know Bill
>Clinton?
Hmm. My f-i-l (Arthur K.) met Al Gore at a funeral; the decedent
was Gore's college roommate, and the son of my f-i-l's then-biggest
accounting client (the business has since been shut down, the owner
no longer having a child to whom to leave it).
If it came to passing notes, Arthur K. could probably pass one to
the father, who could pass it to Gore, who could pass it to the
Prexy. 4 degrees. My brother's college roommate might be a closer
link; I don't know whom he knows in the White House, but odds are
he knows someone, as he's chief of staff for the new NYS Atty Gen'l.
Churnworks Writing and Design
>
> On 19 Jan 1999 20:11:04 GMT, Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Um ... I know the woman who manages the "Coffee Corner" up the block
> >from work.
>
> folks at the fishmonger, but I don't know their names, or they mine.
Lynn Adams, on the Potlatch 8 committee, knows people at a local
bakery well enough that they'll be supplying some bagels for
Potlatch.
-- LJM
--
________
| | Loren MacGregor / The Churn Works
| email:--> churn...@uswest.net
|________| lmac...@efn.org
Vicki Rosenzweig
wrote:
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Jonathan J. Baker <jjb...@panix.com> wrote:
>Um ... I know the woman who manages the "Coffee Corner" up the block
>from work.
>
>-- LJM
Now that's a *useful* connection. I'm on chatting terms with the
folks at the fishmonger, but I don't know their names, or they mine.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig
v...@interport.net | http://www.users.interport.net/~vr/
The color blue is underrated.
Mark Bernstein
>
>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group.
One of them is also the subject of one of my favorite Nate Bucklin
songs.
"La-de-da, la-de-oh, I've got no place to go
'Cause the edge of the paper's too near
I got mad, I got rude, yes I came half unglued
But unscrewed is beyond me, I fear"
(Nate's flying in for Confusion this weekend. I expect that, as
usual, there'll be some wonderful jamming going on.)
Dan Goodman
Some fanhistorical nitpicking follows: "Langdon chart" is a conflation of
two different things.
First there was the Langdon Diagram. Kevin Langdon tried to chart who in
fandom had had "real sex" (my phrase, not his) with whom, and connect them
all up. I believe this was in the 50's, when fandom was a lot smaller.
Then there was the LASFS Chart -- a more modest effort, which attempted to
do this only for members of LASFS. (LASFS was also rather smaller then.)
Kevin Langdon went on to design board games. And then to start an
organization for people with really high IQ's -- not mere MENSAns.
--
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
Graydon
>In article <7832dl$d09$1...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,
>>
>>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
>>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
>>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
>>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
>
><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
Chris has slept with Pat, Robin, and Sam.
Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
--
"But how powerful, how stimulating to the very faculty which produced
it, was the invention of the adjective: no spell or incantation in
Faerie is more potent." -- "On Fairy-Stories", J.R.R. Tolkien
Aahz Maruch
>In article <aahzF5t...@netcom.com>, Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>In article <7832dl$d09$1...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,
>>Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>>>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
>>>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
>>>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
>>>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
>>>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
>>
>><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
>
>Chris has slept with Pat, Robin, and Sam.
>
>Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
>pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
Yes, but Pat, Robin, and Sam have also slept with Chris; now what color
should the pipe cleaners be?
Janice Gelb
>In article <7832dl$d09$1...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,
>Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
>>
>>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
>>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
>>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
>>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
>>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
>
><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
>
First of all, let me correct a previous error: it was the
styrofoam balls that were pink or blue, not the pipe cleaners.
However, there *were* no edges -- it was a free-form 3D
sculpture of styrofoam balls and pipe cleaners.
Brenda Daverin
Baker) wrote:
> Hmm. My f-i-l (Arthur K.) met Al Gore at a funeral; the decedent
> was Gore's college roommate, and the son of my f-i-l's then-biggest
> accounting client (the business has since been shut down, the owner
> no longer having a child to whom to leave it).
>
> If it came to passing notes, Arthur K. could probably pass one to
> the father, who could pass it to Gore, who could pass it to the
> Prexy. 4 degrees. My brother's college roommate might be a closer
> link; I don't know whom he knows in the White House, but odds are
> he knows someone, as he's chief of staff for the new NYS Atty Gen'l.
I was trying to come up with my note-passing pattern, and it finally came
to me. I have an ex-coworker who is friends with the Secretary of the
Treasury (he used to date her daughter). I'm still in contact with him
despite multiple job changes. Three degrees.
--
Brenda Daverin bdav...@best.com
The Unravelled Ferret - http://members.aol.com/lysana/
"Usenet is just email with witnesses." -- Rob Hansen
Pat Brimhall
>
>
> Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
> pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
I still don't get it. Suppose you have two styrofoam balls,
representing person A and person B, connected by a pink pipe cleaner.
Does this indicate that: 1) A is female, 2) B is female, 3) both are
female, or 4) you're out of blue pipe cleaners?
It seems to me that you would need blue and pink styrofoam balls, but
maybe I'm missing something.
Pat B.
Daniel Blum
> In article <aahzF5t...@netcom.com>, Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
> >Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
> >>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
> >>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
> >>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
> >>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
> >>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
> >
> Chris has slept with Pat, Robin, and Sam.
> Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
> pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
But suppose, for the sake of argument, that Chris and Pat are of different
genders - what color is their pipe cleaner? Or does one use two pipe cleaners
in this case?
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum to...@mcs.net
"Friends, we have passed a night in hell; but now the sun is shining, the
birds are singing, and the radiant form of the dentist consoles the world."
Aahz Maruch
Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
>In article F...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>>Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>>>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
>>>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
>>>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
>>>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
>>>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
>>
>><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
>
>balls that were pink or blue, not the pipe cleaners.
Thank you; that makes it clearer.
>However, there *were* no edges -- it was a free-form 3D sculpture of
>styrofoam balls and pipe cleaners.
Yes, there were. I was using "edge" with its technical graph theory (or
geometry) definition. (I.e. "nodes & edges" or "vertices & edges")
Graydon
>In article <785283$f00$1...@lara.on.ca>, Graydon <gra...@lara.on.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
>>pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
>
>should the pipe cleaners be?
The thing's not a bidirectional graph, though, is it? Unidirectional
seems to be the only way to go, if it's bidirectional I don't think
you could reliably phsyically build one.
So I understood the 'start with someone' directions, anwyay.
David G. Bell
> In article <aahzF5t...@netcom.com>, Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
> >In article <7832dl$d09$1...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,
> >Janice Gelb <jan...@eng.sun.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
> >>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
> >>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
> >>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
> >>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
> >>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
> >
> ><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
>
> Chris has slept with Pat, Robin, and Sam.
>
> Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
> pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
And which of those four are male and which female?
Presumably, since you know your own gender, you can figure out that the
pipe cleaners of the contrary colour represent heterosexual
relationships, but the others are ambiguous.
Graydon
Pat Brimhall <eus.e...@memousa.ericcson.se> wrote:
>I still don't get it. Suppose you have two styrofoam balls,
>representing person A and person B, connected by a pink pipe cleaner.
>Does this indicate that: 1) A is female, 2) B is female, 3) both are
>female, or 4) you're out of blue pipe cleaners?
If the graph started at A, B is female. If the graph started with B
in a mad fit of torture-the-onlookers on the part of the graph maker,
A is female.
>It seems to me that you would need blue and pink styrofoam balls, but
>maybe I'm missing something.
I _think_, from the description, that it's a unidirection graph.
Mary Kay Kare
>
> Hmm. My f-i-l (Arthur K.) met Al Gore at a funeral; the decedent
> was Gore's college roommate, and the son of my f-i-l's then-biggest
> accounting client (the business has since been shut down, the owner
> no longer having a child to whom to leave it).
>
> If it came to passing notes, Arthur K. could probably pass one to
> the father, who could pass it to Gore, who could pass it to the
> Prexy. 4 degrees. My brother's college roommate might be a closer
> link; I don't know whom he knows in the White House, but odds are
> he knows someone, as he's chief of staff for the new NYS Atty Gen'l.
Jordin's former boss is Lowell Wood who certainly knows Gore; they are
well known to cordially loathe each other, but you gotta know him to hate
him, right? Jordin also knows people like Edward Teller and Freeman Dyson
relatively well. My guess would be that puts us a step or two away from
*lots* of powerful and interesting people. Also, Jordin's sister Susan
was on the original Mac design team and is now a freelance gui designer.
I know she knows Jobs well and Gates at least slightly so there's some
more connections. Say, this is fun...
MK
--
Mary Kay Kare
Abandon hope all ye who
Press Enter Here.
Morris M. Keesan
wrote:
>Well, the trick is to get up to a world leader in as few steps as
>possible. They've mostly all met, which gets you to any country you
>want, then you get to the individual concerned in as few steps as
>possible. Even without fandom, I'm probably within six degrees of
>everyone on this ng. I've met my MP, who's met Tony Blair, who knows
>Bill Clinton, etc....
And I used to work in the Massachusetts State Government, in the office
of Secretary of Human Services Lucy Wilson Benson, who later became some
sort of advisor to Jimmy Carter.
I'm not sure whether it's the current Emperor of Japan, or the Crown
Prince, that I'm two steps from. Someone who gave one of the
orientation lectures to our group before my first trip to Japan, in
1989, had on an earlier occasion, and with little advance notice, taken
charge of the young son of the prince, and shown him around Boston,
while prince and princess were busy with more formal events.
And I almost met Bill Rehnquist, who would have been at my
brother-in-law's wedding if some Supreme Court business hadn't
intervened. He went to law school with the father of the bride.
--
Morris M. Keesan -- kee...@world.std.com
--
Beth Friedman
<36a55a21...@news.arbortext.com>...
> >
> >Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
> >sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group.
>
> songs.
>
> "La-de-da, la-de-oh, I've got no place to go
> 'Cause the edge of the paper's too near
> I got mad, I got rude, yes I came half unglued
> But unscrewed is beyond me, I fear"
Argh! I've had that song going through my head ever since I started
reading this thread. Nate has a lot to answer for.
"At a Worldcon I met her
I'll never forget her
She needed a cheap place to crash
We were real short on space
But I found her a place
Near my suitcase, the desk, and the trash
I was zonked and half-dead
When she came to my bed
And she gave me her touch and her heart
But my roommate walked in
And he found us in sin
And it seems that I'm now on the chart"
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Graydon
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom Graydon <gra...@lara.on.ca> wrote:
>
>> Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
>> pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
>
>genders - what color is their pipe cleaner? Or does one use two pipe cleaners
>in this case?
What I understood to be going on -- and I've since found out this is
not the case, it's the styrofoam balls that are coloured -- was that
it was a unidirectional graph that started with Chris; the pipe
cleaners would be the colours of the genders of Pat, Robin, and Sam.
You really have to know where a graph like that starts.
--
graydon@ | Twenty hundred years of teaching, give to each his legacy:
lara.on.ca | Plato, Buddha, Christ, or Lenin -- twenty tons of TNT.
-- Flanders and Swann, "Twenty Tons of TNT"
C R Harris
Er, I once saluted Surgeon Rear Admiral Collinson who, shortly
afterwards, was knighted by H M King Goerge V1, but there was no bodily
contact (Honest!) so I don't suppose this counts.
I guess I/m just a nonentity.
Chuck
C.R.Harris
Avedon Carol
>In article <36A446C3...@enteract.com>,
>Leah Zeldes Smith <la...@enteract.com> wrote:
>>
>>Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it would be much
>>more interesting to find out who here connects to him on a Langdon
>>chart.
>
>If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
>good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
Weirdly, my connection to Clinton is through someone he shared a house
with when he was at Oxford, Mandy Merck, a well-known lesbian activist
in these parts. She says Bill was the first person she ever came out
to. She does not connect to him on a Langdon Chart, however.
Avedon (cix.co.uk)
"PG-13 (contains scenes of desperate stupidity and political posturing
which may be inexplicable to the more sensitive members of the viewing
audience)"
Aahz Maruch
In article <785ih9$iga$1...@lara.on.ca>, Graydon <gra...@lara.on.ca> wrote:
>In article <aahzF5v...@netcom.com>, Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>In article <785283$f00$1...@lara.on.ca>, Graydon <gra...@lara.on.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
>>>
>>>Chris has slept with Pat, Robin, and Sam.
>>>
>>>Chris' styrofoam ball has three pipe cleaners coming out of it; the
>>>pipe cleaners can be pink or blue as appropriate.
>>
>>Yes, but Pat, Robin, and Sam have also slept with Chris; now what color
>>should the pipe cleaners be?
>
>The thing's not a bidirectional graph, though, is it? Unidirectional
>seems to be the only way to go, if it's bidirectional I don't think
>you could reliably phsyically build one.
<blink><blink> again. If you've built a physical model for which any
person represented by a node in that model might randomly show up, I
don't see how it could be anything *but* bidirectional.
BTW, I'd prefer it if you didn't snip any attributions.
Berni Phillips
> Jordin's former boss is Lowell Wood who certainly knows Gore; they are
> well known to cordially loathe each other, but you gotta know him to hate
> him, right? Jordin also knows people like Edward Teller and Freeman Dyson
> relatively well. My guess would be that puts us a step or two away from
> *lots* of powerful and interesting people. Also, Jordin's sister Susan
> was on the original Mac design team and is now a freelance gui designer.
> I know she knows Jobs well and Gates at least slightly so there's some
> more connections. Say, this is fun...
Yup. Last Sunday, we got a call that a friend of the family, David
Belin, had died. He was the husband of my mother-in-law's best friend;
his sons were friends with my husband and his brothers, and one of the
boys had attended our wedding. When I read his obituary, I found out he
was lead lawyer or something like that on the Warren Commission.
Berni Phillips
Julie Stampnitzky
> If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
> good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
Fancy that, 80% of us. My, my. (Does "us" mean rasseff posters?)
Well, I know that I'm not so connected.
--
Julie Stampnitzky Rehovot, Israel
http://www.yucs.org/~jules http://neskaya.darkover.org
We are not the first addicted and we will not be the last! -Jorik Hastur
Ailsa Murphy
Julie Stampnitzky <ju...@yucsREMOVETHIS.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:44:36 GMT, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
> > If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
> > good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
>
> Fancy that, 80% of us. My, my. (Does "us" mean rasseff posters?)
> Well, I know that I'm not so connected.
Is a Langdon chart one that connects lovers & ex-lovers & such? If so, no
idea. At least one of my exes is a nexus. It wouldn't surprise me to find I
am only two steps removed from someone here.
-Ailsa
--
But to explicitly advocate cultural relativism ailsa....@tfn.com
on the grounds that it promotes tolerance is to Ailsa N.T. Murphy
implicitly assume that tolerance is an absolute value. If there are any
absolute values, however, cultural relativism is false. -Theodore Schick
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jonathan J. Baker
>In article F...@netcom.com, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>>>Your inclination was correct. A Langdon chart is a chart showing the
>>>sexual interconnectedness of a given fan group. The OE of one of my
>>>former apas, LASFAPA, had a three-dimensional Langdon chart for the apa
>>>featuring pipe cleaners (pink for boys, blue for girls) and styrofoam
>>>balls -- the OE would only tell you which styrofoam ball was yours and
>>>you had to figure the rest out for yourself.
>><blink><blink> How does pink/blue work for the *edges*???
>First of all, let me correct a previous error: it was the
>styrofoam balls that were pink or blue, not the pipe cleaners.
>However, there *were* no edges -- it was a free-form 3D
>sculpture of styrofoam balls and pipe cleaners.
The sculpture was a 3D rendering of an undirected graph with nodes
(persons) and edges (sex relations), no? How else would it
represent the connections between people?
--
Jonathan Baker | Is it Shevat Na or Shvat Nach?
jjb...@panix.com |
Jonathan J. Baker
>In article <>, jjb...@panix.com (Jonathan J. >Baker) wrote:
>> If it came to passing notes, Arthur K. could probably pass one to
>> the father, who could pass it to Gore, who could pass it to the
>> Prexy. 4 degrees. My brother's college roommate might be a closer
>> link; I don't know whom he knows in the White House, but odds are
>> he knows someone, as he's chief of staff for the new NYS Atty Gen'l.
>Jordin's former boss is Lowell Wood who certainly knows Gore; they are
>well known to cordially loathe each other, but you gotta know him to hate
>him, right? Jordin also knows people like Edward Teller and Freeman Dyson
>relatively well. My guess would be that puts us a step or two away from
>*lots* of powerful and interesting people. Also, Jordin's sister Susan
Hmm. If it comes to major physicists, my cousin Herb Zeman worked for
Bob Hofstadter for 20 years at Stanford, and his father, Mark Zemansky,
did some minor work on The Bomb, although he was booted early for asking
the wrong questions about the Jews in Europe.
Avedon Carol
wrote:
>>On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:44:36 GMT, aa...@netcom.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <36A446C3...@enteract.com>,
>>>Leah Zeldes Smith <la...@enteract.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Of course, if the object is to get to Bill Clinton, it would be much
>>>>more interesting to find out who here connects to him on a Langdon
>>>>chart.
>>>
>>>If one of us connects to Bill Clinton via a Langdon chart, chances are
>>>good that at least 80% of us are so connected.
>>
>>Weirdly, my connection to Clinton is through someone he shared a house
>>with when he was at Oxford, Mandy Merck, a well-known lesbian activist
>>in these parts. She says Bill was the first person she ever came out
>>to. She does not connect to him on a Langdon Chart, however.
>
>Why do I suspect that she told him to put him off?
Dunno, why do you? /Her/ version is that he was the first person she
trusted to tell. Strange but true....
Janice Gelb
For every connection, you have two styrofoam balls and a
pipe cleaner between them. I'm afraid I was thinking of
"edge" in the physical sense rather than the mathematical/
graph sense some people were. The thing was a dense tangle
of styrofoam balls and pipe cleaners and I don't really
think I'd describe the outer parts of it as "the edges."
Seth Breidbart
Avedon Carol <ave...@thirdworld.uk> wrote:
>On 24 Jan 1999 00:25:43 GMT, xnims...@aol.com (Doug Wickstrom)
>wrote:
>>>Weirdly, my connection to Clinton is through someone he shared a house
>>>with when he was at Oxford, Mandy Merck, a well-known lesbian activist
>>>in these parts. She says Bill was the first person she ever came out
>>>to. She does not connect to him on a Langdon Chart, however.
>>Why do I suspect that she told him to put him off?
>Dunno, why do you? /Her/ version is that he was the first person she
>trusted to tell. Strange but true....
I can believe that. Clinton is very good at faking trustworthy.
Seth
P Nielsen Hayden
Moreover, it's axiomatic that, on the subject of Clinton's personal
trustworthiness, we're to believe a fannish computer programmer who's never
met Bill Clinton and disagrees with his politics, over someone who knew him
personally.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
Further, as far as we can tell by this story, Clinton _was_ trustworthy enough
not to out her, since he didn't.
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210
===============================================================================
Cally Soukup
> In article <36b57f4f....@news.demon.co.uk>,
> Avedon Carol <ave...@thirdworld.uk> wrote:
>>On 24 Jan 1999 00:25:43 GMT, xnims...@aol.com (Doug Wickstrom)
>>wrote:
>>>>Weirdly, my connection to Clinton is through someone he shared a house
>>>>with when he was at Oxford, Mandy Merck, a well-known lesbian activist
>>>>in these parts. She says Bill was the first person she ever came out
>>>>to. She does not connect to him on a Langdon Chart, however.
>>>Why do I suspect that she told him to put him off?
>>Dunno, why do you? /Her/ version is that he was the first person she
>>trusted to tell. Strange but true....
> I can believe that. Clinton is very good at faking trustworthy.
Gee, and I always thought not "kissing and telling" was a sign of
being both trustworthy and a gentleman.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Sea
gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (David Goldfarb) has stated:
> If memory serves, the original "six degrees" was within the US
>only. To get to "anyone in the world" increased the steps to something
>like eight or ten.
Anyone here in this discussion seen the six degrees web site? It's
trying to link everyone to everyone, but with the fatal flaw that it
overlooks a) people having to be online and b) people knowing of the
sites existence. It tries to make a community of people you know and
the people they know... but it's a bit odd. It's not as if you
*actually* know those in your second degree and it's hard to know what
to say to any of them. Consequently I'm signed up but don't use it
much.
Lydia Nickerson
>Gee, and I always thought not "kissing and telling" was a sign of
>being both trustworthy and a gentleman.
Paraphrasing Molly Ivins: "That boy has good manners. I want to thank
his momma."
The fact that he was forced into telling as much as he did seems to me to
be one of the great tragedies of our time. It has become demonstrably
impossible to be a decent human being and a president of the US at the
same time.
--
----
Lydia Nickerson ly...@ddb.com
Gary Farber
: Cally Soukup <sou...@pobox.com> writes:
:>Gee, and I always thought not "kissing and telling" was a sign of
:>being both trustworthy and a gentleman.
: Paraphrasing Molly Ivins: "That boy has good manners. I want to thank
: his momma."
But for those who have seen PRIMARY COLORS (which is pretty good, and
well-nuanced): don't let him get into a momma-thon.
[. . . .]
--
Copyright 1999 by Gary Farber; Web Researcher; Nonfiction Writer,
Fiction and Nonfiction Editor; gfa...@panix.com; B'klyn, NYC, US
P Nielsen Hayden
>By the way, the Guardian claims they've improved their site lately, so
>maybe they have the Gabriel Garcia Marquez article from the Weekend
>section, in which he is somewhat scathing on the subject of the
>Republican jihad. His take on Bill's bad behavior is a bit different
>from the usual, too.
Huh. I just read that same Garcia Marquez piece--it's pretty interesting--
on Salon. http://www.salonmagazine.com.
Avedon Carol
>In <790tg2$1id$1...@panix3.panix.com> se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>>>Dunno, why do you? /Her/ version is that he was the first person she
>>>trusted to tell. Strange but true....
>>
>>I can believe that. Clinton is very good at faking trustworthy.
>
>Moreover, it's axiomatic that, on the subject of Clinton's personal
>trustworthiness, we're to believe a fannish computer programmer who's never
>met Bill Clinton and disagrees with his politics, over someone who knew him
>personally.
By the way, the Guardian claims they've improved their site lately, so
maybe they have the Gabriel Garcia Marquez article from the Weekend
section, in which he is somewhat scathing on the subject of the
Republican jihad. His take on Bill's bad behavior is a bit different
from the usual, too.
"Because puritanism is an insatiable vice that feeds off
its own shit.
"The entire impeachment process has been a sinister plot
by fanatics for the personal destruction of a political
adversary whose grandeur they could not bear. The method
chosen was the criminal abuse of the justice system by a
fundamentalist public prosecutor named Kenneth Starr, whose
inflamed and salacious examination of witnesses seemed to
excite him to the point of orgasm."
(I don't know why this made me think of D. West.)
Ailsa Murphy
> >maybe they have the Gabriel Garcia Marquez article from the Weekend
> >section, in which he is somewhat scathing on the subject of the
> >Republican jihad. His take on Bill's bad behavior is a bit different
> >from the usual, too.
>
> on Salon. http://www.salonmagazine.com.
>
Great piece. The opinions are about the same as mine anyway, but the report
of the dinner was quite something. I printed off that page as something to
add to my list of books to try to read.
I know a beautiful young woman gifted with the ability to make you think that
there is nothing she wanted more in the whole world at this moment than to be
talking to you. In my opinion, it's a wonderful thing to be able to do.
B. Vermo
|
|The fact that he was forced into telling as much as he did seems to me to
|be one of the great tragedies of our time. It has become demonstrably
|impossible to be a decent human being and a president of the US at the
|same time.
The general opinion here is that his biggest fault was not to tell Starr
that no gentleman would answer that question and no honourable person
would have asked it.
If he had been impeached for that, it would at least be for a worthy cause.
Kevin J. Maroney
>The general opinion here is that his biggest fault was not to tell Starr
>that no gentleman would answer that question and no honourable person
>would have asked it.
>
>If he had been impeached for that, it would at least be for a worthy cause.
Unfortunately, the first offense, the one for which the perjury
investigation was started, was not one in which Clinton was answering
questions from Starr, and that response was explicitly disallowed. He
could, I suppose, have exposed himself to contempt of court charges
instead of giving the answer he did.
In the grand jury testimony, most of his answers to direct questions
about his inappropriate contact with Monica basically *did* boil down
to, "Sir, a gentleman does not answer such questions." The House
Managers' impeachment case hinges upon *other* questions, such as what
he arranged with Monica and Betty Currie vis-a-vis the gifts.
Kevin Maroney | kmar...@crossover.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor
The New York Review of Science Fiction
http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html
Avedon Carol
wrote:
>In article <795la6$bsl$1...@panix7.panix.com>,
> p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>> >By the way, the Guardian claims they've improved their site lately, so
>> >maybe they have the Gabriel Garcia Marquez article from the Weekend
>> >section, in which he is somewhat scathing on the subject of the
>> >Republican jihad. His take on Bill's bad behavior is a bit different
>> >from the usual, too.
>>
>> Huh. I just read that same Garcia Marquez piece--it's pretty interesting--
>> on Salon. http://www.salonmagazine.com.
>>
>
>Great piece. The opinions are about the same as mine anyway, but the report
>of the dinner was quite something. I printed off that page as something to
>add to my list of books to try to read.
I couldn't help wondering whether there was any intended irony in the
fact that he talked about how interested Clinton was in his opinion -
on topics where his opinion was very much different from the policies
this administration has had in practice.