Save Gary's life (or at least his teeth)
gfa...@savvy.com
> I think we need to make a donation fund for Gary's teeth.
> Gary, do you have a drop address you can give out?
> ( Now's not the time to be humble. )
I have an e-mail address I look at now and again, in my current .sig. I am
deeply, deeply, deeply, neurotic about issues of money and accepting
charity, but I do it when I have to, apparently having little other choice,
at considerable emotional cost and confusion and incoherence. I give a
snail mail address at times via e-mail. I also have been known to refuse,
and ignore, no matter the need, certain forms of offers, such as the one
that Keith Lynch arrived in my mailbox with, which make me issue a FOAD, and
a post here that made no sense absent reading that e-mail. Others I, with
great neurosis and mixed feelings, accept and hope to pay as forward as
back.
Um, lovely night out,isn't it? Look at all those beautiful leaves blowing
about. What colors!
--
Gary Farber New York
Temporary e-mail address: gfa...@my-deja.com
Susana Serras Pereira
<gfa...@savvy.com> wrote in message
news:8v1se0$3d14q$1...@ID-51877.news.dfncis.de...
> Guy <cyp...@punk.net> wrote:
> > I think we need to make a donation fund for Gary's teeth.
>
> > Gary, do you have a drop address you can give out?
>
> > ( Now's not the time to be humble. )
>
> I have an e-mail address I look at now and again, in my current .sig. I am
> deeply, deeply, deeply, neurotic about issues of money and accepting
> charity, but I do it when I have to, apparently having little other choice,
> at considerable emotional cost and confusion and incoherence. I give a
> snail mail address at times via e-mail. I also have been known to refuse,
> and ignore, no matter the need, certain forms of offers, such as the one
> that Keith Lynch arrived in my mailbox with, which make me issue a FOAD, and
<snip>
Falling Opossums Alert to Diners?
Fat Ornery Antonyms Data?
Fools Open Arms Disparagingly?
> Um, lovely night out,isn't it? Look at all those beautiful leaves blowing
> about. What colors!
Yes, it is, all clear and cold and shiny. But the leaves here just
shrivel and fall, and they get murky brown at best. They've lit the
Christmas lights, though, so there's a little sparkling family and a
star outside my window. I like it.
Susana, sending hopes of health and happiness
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .]
> Falling Opossums Alert to Diners?
> Fat Ornery Antonyms Data?
> Fools Open Arms Disparagingly?
Much more unpleasant. Sorry, it's a not uncommon Usnet, and elsewere
abreviation.
spoilers for what some folks consider offensive and obscene
shucks
darn
drat
dagnabit.
FOAD is
Fuck off and die.
I've been through a number of evil liberal jackbooted thug-run governmental
beauracracies without being asked anything resembling the number or type of
intrusive and rude personal questions Keith asked me. Probably because the
laws protect me from that. Evil liberal leftist laws. Nor have I ever
experienced from a governmental employee any sort of the nonsense of the
sort that he sent me explaining why mice shouldn't exist, Apples shouldn't
exist, Windows shouldn't exist, etc, and that obviously anyone using any of
them was as stupid in understanding the true nature of the universe as was
anyone who needs charity.
As a result, I concluded he should FOAD. At the end of his natural
lifespan, of course, and I hope it's entirely pleasant, since I'm an, I
hope, not unreasonable fellow. I just think he fails to understand his
interconnections with his fellow human beings.
>> Um, lovely night out,isn't it? Look at all those beautiful leaves blowing
>> about. What colors!
> Yes, it is, all clear and cold and shiny. But the leaves here just
> shrivel and fall, and they get murky brown at best. They've lit the
> Christmas lights, though, so there's a little sparkling family and a
> star outside my window. I like it.
> Susana, sending hopes of health and happiness
Thanks. I can't give details on my mouth, because they're gross, but the
sum is that it's better at this time, and that I love the crispness outside,
and the delicious roughness of the bark of the trees and the remaining
colors in what leaves we continue to see.
And the wind! The wind is wonderful.
It caresses us.
Lucy Kemnitzer
<ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>>, which make me issue a FOAD, and
>
><snip>
>
>Falling Opossums Alert to Diners?
>
>Fat Ornery Antonyms Data?
>
>Fools Open Arms Disparagingly?
Oh lovely woman! Oh follower of my same star! Oh fellow
traveler!
I am alone no more.
>
>
>> Um, lovely night out,isn't it? Look at all those beautiful leaves blowing
>> about. What colors!
>
>Yes, it is, all clear and cold and shiny. But the leaves here just
>shrivel and fall, and they get murky brown at best. They've lit the
>Christmas lights, though, so there's a little sparkling family and a
>star outside my window. I like it.
>
The grass has already begun to grow. It is quite green on the
hills. Winter is all wet and slimy and slippery and alive.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Marilee J. Layman
<ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>
><gfa...@savvy.com> wrote in message
>news:8v1se0$3d14q$1...@ID-51877.news.dfncis.de...
>> Guy <cyp...@punk.net> wrote:
>> > I think we need to make a donation fund for Gary's teeth.
>>
>> > Gary, do you have a drop address you can give out?
>>
>> > ( Now's not the time to be humble. )
>>
>> I have an e-mail address I look at now and again, in my current .sig. I am
>> deeply, deeply, deeply, neurotic about issues of money and accepting
>> charity, but I do it when I have to, apparently having little other choice,
>> at considerable emotional cost and confusion and incoherence. I give a
>> snail mail address at times via e-mail. I also have been known to refuse,
>> and ignore, no matter the need, certain forms of offers, such as the one
>> that Keith Lynch arrived in my mailbox with, which make me issue a FOAD, and
> ^^^^
><snip>
>
>Falling Opossums Alert to Diners?
>
>Fat Ornery Antonyms Data?
>
>Fools Open Arms Disparagingly?
Don't take this personally:
Fuck Off and Die
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .]
> Don't take this personally:
> Fuck Off and Die
I'd like to be clear, for the record and the world, that any FOAD I issue
(not a term I invented) has as a D only as a metaphoric meaning.
I wish, for instance, Keith Lynch to have a long and healthy life. But,as
some will, when sufficiently provoked -- and it mostly takes a lot -- I'll
cast forth the FOAD metaphor curse, knowing it will not actually injure
anyone's physical form or lifespan.
David Owen-Cruise
rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
> The grass has already begun to grow. It is quite green on the
> hills. Winter is all wet and slimy and slippery and alive.
>
Sounds like Spring to me. I fear an extended stay in California might
throw my sense of the seasons thoroughly out of whack.
My beloved has threatened to move us to what she considers a rational
climate, and storing me in a walk-in freezer for a week or two in
January. I think she's kidding.
--
David Owen-Cruise
dowen...@juno.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lucy Kemnitzer
<dowen...@juno.com> wrote:
>In article <3a14c661...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
>
>> The grass has already begun to grow. It is quite green on the
>> hills. Winter is all wet and slimy and slippery and alive.
>>
>Sounds like Spring to me. I fear an extended stay in California might
>throw my sense of the seasons thoroughly out of whack.
>
>My beloved has threatened to move us to what she considers a rational
>climate, and storing me in a walk-in freezer for a week or two in
>January. I think she's kidding.
>
No, this is how it is. Winter is when it gets wet and slimy and
green, and the good fungus happens (so does the bad fungus).
Mosses and lichens fruit. Predatory birds, large food fish, and
cetaceans are abundant. Also monarch butterflies.
Spring is flowers. And wind. And baby things.
The division point is when the baby elephant seals happen: then
you know the flowers are coming.
That's the difference.
I agree with your beloved, that this is a rational climate. I
think lethal weather is nuts.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Lucy Kemnitzer
wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:25:40 GMT,
>Lucy Kemnitzer <rit...@cruzio.com> scripsit:
>>I agree with your beloved, that this is a rational climate. I
>>think lethal weather is nuts.
>
>It encourages community; it can't be _entirely_ crazy.
>
Community can also be encouraged by dancing in the street in a
light sweater on New Year's Eve: dire is not the only way.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Randolph Fritz
>On 18 Nov 2000 08:23:21 GMT, gra...@dsl.ca (Graydon Saunders)
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 01:25:40 GMT,
>>Lucy Kemnitzer <rit...@cruzio.com> scripsit:
>>>think lethal weather is nuts.
>>
>>
>
>Community can also be encouraged by dancing in the street in a
>light sweater on New Year's Eve: dire is not the only way.
>
Now, here in Eugene, we dance in the street in the rain on New Years Eve. :)
Randolph
Susana Serras Pereira
"Lucy Kemnitzer" <rit...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:3a14c661...@enews.newsguy.com...
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:00:26 -0000, "Susana Serras Pereira"
> <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>
> >>, which make me issue a FOAD, and
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >Falling Opossums Alert to Diners?
> >
> >Fat Ornery Antonyms Data?
> >
> >Fools Open Arms Disparagingly?
>
>
> Oh lovely woman! Oh follower of my same star! Oh fellow
> traveler!
Heh. The truly horrible thing about TLA's (that's Terrifying Little
Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
nor work.
Coupled with an erratic memory, this produces a constant low background
buzz of "how did that game go?", "what was that line about Paris in _The
Moderns_?", "what's with Opossum and Oporto?", "Three Letter Abbreviations
can't be right, there's four in FOAD... Falling, Faltering, Fallutin',
Fedora...", which is somewhat entertaining (well, people who hear me
mumble stuff like this find it amusing anyway) and sometimes leads to
happy discoveries (shiny new words, silly new theories, sweet new turns
of phrase) but mostly unnerving, especially when the buzzing ups in
volume and complexity, and turns into white noise and prevents me from
working, reading, writing or existing right here and now, where the steam
rises out of tea mugs and the rain washes the windows.
>
> I am alone no more.
Together, we shall go forth and break apart the capital letters of
rassef, and erect words where once stood noises, and meaning where
once was naught!
>
> The grass has already begun to grow. It is quite green on the
> hills. Winter is all wet and slimy and slippery and alive.
It's definitely Fall here, full of new wine, and persimmons, and
falling leaves. And the aloes are flowering all along the coast,
and the chestnuts are fat and sweet this year, which is enough for
me to forgive the rain for being too weak to clean the cobblestones
properly, and the cold for being too hard and withering the buds off
the gardenia.
I still wish we had trees that turned red and yellow, though. And,
turning up the heater, I wish houses were built for cold.
Susana, with happy heater-sitting cats
Keith F. Lynch
<gfa...@savvy.com> wrote:
> I've been through a number of evil liberal jackbooted thug-run
> governmental beauracracies without being asked anything resembling
> the number or type of intrusive and rude personal questions Keith
> asked me.
Sigh. That's what comes from trying to be helpful. I should have
simply ignored your original message, even though it had my name
in it.
But since you are accusing me, I feel compelled to respond. Here is
the sum total of all the "intrusive and rude personal questions" I
asked.
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:01:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
To: gfa...@my-deja.com
Subject: your offer
How much would it take to make a difference? Do you need enough to
tide you over until, say, December, or is this a bottomless pit?
I'm puzzled as to how you got into this state. My understanding is
that the job market is wide open for anyone who can write clearly, as
you can. If nothing else, surely you can get work as a typist.
Also, how are you paying the rent if you can't afford food? Here in
Virginia, rent costs so much more than food that food costs are lost
in the noise. (My latest annual rent INCREASE was more per month than
I spend on food in TWO months.) And rents are much higher in New York
than here in Virginia, while food costs are about the same.
My financial situation? In a word, intensely paranoid. Ever since I
was falsely convicted of a serious crime 23 years ago when I could not
afford a lawyer, I have saved about half my after-tax salary. And
have kept most of it in forms that can't be traced to me, lest it be
seized just when I need it most.
Unfortunately, that also means I've typically received little if
any return on investment. In fact, after inflation, I've taken a
considerable loss, as the dollars I saved twenty years ago have
lost more than half their value.
I hope your toothache is over. I know from personal experience that
even untreated toothaches eventually end. (In prison, the only thing
the state-provided dentist could do was extractions. I declined.
And I still have those teeth today.)
Since I didn't hear from you in time, I didn't mention your plight
at the WSFA meeting. Ed Kramer's situation was mentioned there, and
there is a move afoot to help him out. I can't speak for anyone else,
but I know I'd much rather be in your situation than his. As I've
said before, the one thing that really scares me is state power.
> Thank you again for your kind offer.
You're welcome. I think you'll find that libertarians aren't stingy.
We just don't think that the lack of charity should be punished with
fines and jail, as liberals do. Especially when what's being punished
usually isn't even a lack of charity, but rather wishing to choose for
oneself where one's money will do the most good, rather than leaving
it to bureaucrats in Washington (who usually decide that the most
deserving are themselves).
Gary never replied to this message, so I figured his financial
situation had improved. It never occured to me that he would take
offense at my friendly inquiry. Unlike government bureaucrats, I
didn't ask him for a detailed listing of his current income and
assets. I didn't ask him for his social security number, his age, his
drug use history, whether he had ever been convicted of a crime, or
his marital status. Nor did I ask for access to his medical records.
Nor did I ask to see government-issued picture ID, and proof of US
citizenship. Neither did I place any conditions on my help. (Unlike,
say, section 8 housing which forbids otherwise perfectly legal
possession of firearms.)
> Probably because the laws protect me from that.
We still have free speech in this country.
> Nor have I ever experienced from a governmental employee any sort
> of the nonsense of the sort that he sent me explaining why mice
> shouldn't exist, Apples shouldn't exist, Windows shouldn't exist,
> etc, and that obviously anyone using any of them was as stupid in
> understanding the true nature of the universe as was anyone who
> needs charity.
I have never said any of those things.
I was the beneficiary of charity myself, during and after my false
imprisonment, and I remain very grateful. Never did I criticize
anyone, whether or not they loaned me money, for asking me how I had
managed to get into such a situation, or how long it I thought it
was likely to last. I would have thought it strange if anyone who
supposedly cared about me WASN'T curious.
> As a result, I concluded he should FOAD.
I begin to understand how Gary got into his current situation.
I wonder if he realizes that he just told the newsgroup "if you offer
to help me, I will curse you," and if will be puzzled as to why few
people offer any help.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected
addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP.
Dave Locke
> How much would it take to make a difference? Do you need enough to
> tide you over until, say, December, or is this a bottomless pit?
What does history tell you on this?
> I'm puzzled as to how you got into this state. My understanding is
> that the job market is wide open for anyone who can write clearly,
> as you can. If nothing else, surely you can get work as a typist.
When would there be the time to look?
> I have never said any of those things.
There's history on that kind of thing, too.
> I was the beneficiary of charity myself, during and after my false
> imprisonment, and I remain very grateful. Never did I criticize
> anyone, whether or not they loaned me money, for asking me how I had
> managed to get into such a situation, or how long I thought it
> was likely to last. I would have thought it strange if anyone who
> supposedly cared about me WASN'T curious.
That is the way it works. Somewhere around here I've a Gilliland
cartoon of a guy standing at the final judgement, where he's being
read a question he made about the agricultural policy of a starving
nation. "I wanted to know whether I was feeding them now, or
forever."
--
Dave | dave...@fan.net | "In America anyone can become president.
That's one of the risks we take." -- Adlai Stevenson
Lucy Kemnitzer
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>In article <8v2c6j$369bs$1...@ID-51877.news.dfncis.de>,
><gfa...@savvy.com> wrote:
>> I've been through a number of evil liberal jackbooted thug-run
>> governmental beauracracies without being asked anything resembling
>> the number or type of intrusive and rude personal questions Keith
>> asked me.
>
>Sigh. That's what comes from trying to be helpful. I should have
>simply ignored your original message, even though it had my name
>in it.
>
>But since you are accusing me, I feel compelled to respond. Here is
>the sum total of all the "intrusive and rude personal questions" I
>asked.
<snip>
I can tell you meant well, but, Keith, I would have been offended
too.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Lucy Kemnitzer
<ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>
>"Lucy Kemnitzer" <rit...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:3a14c661...@enews.newsguy.com...
>> On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 04:00:26 -0000, "Susana Serras Pereira"
>> <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>>
>> >>, which make me issue a FOAD, and
>> >
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >Falling Opossums Alert to Diners?
>> >
>> >Fat Ornery Antonyms Data?
>> >
>> >Fools Open Arms Disparagingly?
>>
>>
>> Oh lovely woman! Oh follower of my same star! Oh fellow
>> traveler!
>
>Heh. The truly horrible thing about TLA's (that's Terrifying Little
>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
>nor work.
>
>Coupled with an erratic memory, this produces a constant low background
>buzz of "how did that game go?", "what was that line about Paris in _The
>Moderns_?", "what's with Opossum and Oporto?", "Three Letter Abbreviations
>can't be right, there's four in FOAD... Falling, Faltering, Fallutin',
>Fedora...", which is somewhat entertaining (well, people who hear me
>mumble stuff like this find it amusing anyway) and sometimes leads to
>happy discoveries (shiny new words, silly new theories, sweet new turns
>of phrase) but mostly unnerving, especially when the buzzing ups in
>volume and complexity, and turns into white noise and prevents me from
>working, reading, writing or existing right here and now, where the steam
>rises out of tea mugs and the rain washes the windows.
>>
>> I am alone no more.
>
>Together, we shall go forth and break apart the capital letters of
>rassef, and erect words where once stood noises, and meaning where
>once was naught!
>
You see that, people? No obfuscation is safe now! We're a
movement!
Lucy Kemnitzer
Elisabeth Carey
news:8v9ffb$4eq$1...@saltmine.radix.net...
I understand that you meant well, but your phrasing of several of those
"friendly qestions" is not felicitous, is indeed somewhat offensive, and
would certainly seem more offensive to someone reading them under any
significant degree of stress.
For instance, "...or is this a bottomless pit?" is not a polite finish to a
question concerning how much money someone needs. Questions about why
someone has chosen to spend their limited resources on one absolutely vital
need (shelter in the northeastern US when winter approaches) rather than
another absolutely vital need (food), phrased in a way that presumes that
the decisions that person has made are wrong, are not polite.
Explanations of why your political preference is more virtuous than some
other political preference, especially when that other political preference
happens to be shared by the person you're addressing, have no place in a
missive intended to be sympathetic. "Not polite" does not begin to be strong
enough as a description of including such.
Telling someone who is in genuine and significant distress that someone else
is worse off than they are is rarely helpful. The best that can ordinarily
be hoped for it is that it will be a complete irrelevance; most often, it
will be received as extremely offensive. When I'm having an asthma attack, I
don't wish ill on anyone else, but the fact that someone else is in worse
distress somewhere else doesn't alter in the slightest the fact that I.
Can't. Breathe.
Giving expression to the belief that, because there are lots of jobs in the
newspaper, anyone who is not employed must not be trying hard to get one,
will nearly always be just plain rude. I won't bother to address the flawed
assumptions underlying the belief itself.
And while the information that your untreated toothache eventually ended has
the potential to be useful and encouraging information, it needs both
greater context (what was the cause or what were the symptoms of your
toothache; was it similar enough to Gary's problem to make it likely that
the course of his problem will be similar?) and a more sympathetic setting
(i.e., not surrounded by all this other stuff which is unfortunately rather
offensive) in order to have a real chance of having that effect.
Expressions of sympathy and offers of assistance should nearly always be
limited to just that. And there's a reason I prefaced my suggestion to Gary
about finding a dental school clinic with "You've probably already thought
of this..." It's because he could very well have already thought of it, and
tried it, and had it not work out for some reason--and it's incredibly,
unbelievably stressful to keep getting, over and over again, Wonderful
Solutions that you've already tried without success, from people who claim
to think well of you and yet appear to assume that you don't have the brains
to think of these ideas that are so obvious to them.
--
Lis Carey
Copyright 2000 by Elisabeth Carey. Any hyperlinks present in the text of
this message were added without my permission.
Keith F. Lynch
Elisabeth Carey <lisc...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> I understand that you meant well, but your phrasing of several of
> those "friendly qestions" is not felicitous, is indeed somewhat
> offensive, and would certainly seem more offensive to someone
> reading them under any significant degree of stress.
Yes, I realize that now. I was treating Gary Farber with more
familiarity than was perhaps my due. I was talking to him as if we
were close friends.
Even though Usenet is an inherently two-way medium, the fact remains
that Gary posts a lot more than I do. (DejaNews says I've posted here
54 times since I got my current e-mail address this past spring, while
Gary has posted 763 times.) This gives me the illusion that I know
Gary better than I do. In fact, I'm nearly a stranger to him, though
I've met him a few times at cons.
On re-reading his original message, the one which appeared to be
asking me, by name, if I would loan him money, I now realize he was
not presuming on our (non-existant) friendship and seriously asking me
for a loan, but was simply twitting me for my libertarian politics,
since he (falsely) believes that libertarians aren't charitable.
> Questions about why someone has chosen to spend their limited
> resources on one absolutely vital need (shelter in the northeastern
> US when winter approaches) rather than another absolutely vital need
> (food), phrased in a way that presumes that the decisions that
> person has made are wrong, are not polite.
I was just puzzled, since rent costs about 30 times more than food (at
least around here, and I expect the ratio is higher in New York City)
how it was possible to afford the former but not the latter. It was
a roundabout way of asking whether he wanted me to pay for a month's
food or a month's rent. Or for two months, or three months, or what.
> Explanations of why your political preference is more virtuous than
> some other political preference, ...
I was just correcting his idea that libertarians aren't charitable.
> Telling someone who is in genuine and significant distress that
> someone else is worse off than they are is rarely helpful.
I had asked him if he wanted me to mention his situation at WSFA.
Since he didn't reply in time, I didn't. I mentioned the Ed Kramer
situation mainly to show that WSFA is also charitable to members of
fandom in need.
> ... and it's incredibly, unbelievably stressful to keep getting,
> over and over again, Wonderful Solutions that you've already tried
> without success, from people who claim to think well of you and yet
> appear to assume that you don't have the brains to think of these
> ideas that are so obvious to them.
That's why I didn't phrase anything as a suggestion.
Needless to say, I am very offended by being told to FOAD in response
to my offer to help and my friendly questions, even if, had I taken a
day or two to mull them over I could perhaps have phrased them better.
I will be directing my charity in other directions. I understand that
Gary is under stress, but I won't put up with that kind of abuse from
anyone. If my boss talked to me like that, I'd quit my job. If my
parents talked to me like that, I'd quit visiting them. Gary started
this by mentioning my name for no reason, and then telling me to
FOAD when I responded. Well, as far as I'm concerned, he can take
his toothache and go someplace warm.
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .[
> I wonder if he realizes that he just told the newsgroup "if you offer
> to help me, I will curse you," and if will be puzzled as to why few
> people offer any help.
As a very significant proportion of folks posting to this newsgroup, and
even a couple of lurkers, have offered, and given, me significant help, your
understanding is in grave error. I'm rather awed, as well as deeply
grateful, more than I am capable of saying, as to how many folks have helped
me.
And I thank all of them, and do *not* ask them to speak up here, please.
But if anyone, anyone at all, would like to testify in agreement with Keith
that I "cursed them," that I'd be interested to see. (I acknowledge that my
response to you, Keith, is fairly describable that way; it was entirely
ill-tempered, but, well, it would take more effort to explain at length why
I thought it not unjustified than I, frankly, care to make at this time.)
You are, in fact, the only person whose "offer" I've ever "rejected," Keith.
I don't care to go into this further, as I see little point to it. Suffice
it to say that your response, which entailed more than you posted, as you
amplified upon in a subsequent message, was unique.
gfa...@savvy.com
> not presuming on our (non-existant) friendship and seriously asking me
> for a loan, but was simply twitting me for my libertarian politics,
> since he (falsely) believes that libertarians aren't charitable.
I'd like to carefully state that you are making three more errors here: I
was neither presuming upon friendship, nor simply twitting you, nor do I in
the least believe that libertarians aren't capable of charity. I know
perfectly well that that last is untrue, and have never ever suggested
otherwise.
Incidentally, as regards your denial of having made the statements I
suggested you made about mice and operating systems, if you'd like to also
post your subsequent e-mail in which you engaged that subject, I certainly
would make no objection. I believe it will support my posted comments.
[. . .]
> I was just correcting his idea that libertarians aren't charitable.
I don't have, and do not hold, that idea.
>> Telling someone who is in genuine and significant distress that
>> someone else is worse off than they are is rarely helpful.
> I had asked him if he wanted me to mention his situation at WSFA.
> Since he didn't reply in time, I didn't.
I suppose I could most charitably take this as a case of respecting my
privacy, or something, somehow, if I really stretched my mind around it.
I'm an sf fan, I guess I can manage it. Somehow.
[. . .]
> Needless to say, I am very offended by being told to FOAD in response
> to my offer to help and my friendly questions, even if, had I taken a
> day or two to mull them over I could perhaps have phrased them better.
Yes, offense at a FOAD is entirely reasonable. I make no complaint at you
for such a reaction. But, no, I didn't take your questions, and e-mails in
toto, which I did indeed not respond to, and took days to reconsider my
intemperate response to, as particularly friendly. It was because of my
feelings upon reading your response that I refrained from responding, and
took days to consider and reconsider how I continued to think and feel about
your communications.
For the record, and the possibility that we might at some point in the
future, wish to be more friendly at each other, I will emphasize that your
continued notion that it is reasonable to insist that I should have
responded to your e-mails as nothing more than "friendly questions" is,
perhaps, not entirely reasonable or objective.
I expose a great deal of myself on rasseff. I expose a great deal of myself
to fandom. I enjoy, up to a point, engaging in fandom in that very personal
way. I did, after all, grow up in fandom in the days of the *deeply*
intimate personalzines, in which people Confessed All about their most
personal views and feelings, their sex lives, their most intimate thoughts.
To interpret that as an understanding that I have no personal barriers, no
interest in any way for any form of privacy, no wish to not engage in public
explanations of all of my flaws, failures, problems, or lacks, is an error.
People will like me, or not. They'll judge me as they will. And I'll live,
or not, with that. But I do have limits, and sensitivities, and
vulnerabilities. If I feel sufficiently poked, I will most certainly jump.
I don't take your response as at all *intentionally* offensive, Keith; not
at all; I'm entirely confident that you do, in fact, believe you were
utterly inoffensive and entirely "friendly," but I do think you made a
severe boundary error. I can, in fact, understand making that sort of error
*extremely* well; it's very fan-like, and it's very understandable in light
of the way interactions in such as rasseff function. I can, in fact,
imagine making that sort of error myself under various circumstances. I
don't hold it against you as some sort of inherent moral or personality
flaw. But it was, simply, no more or less than an error. From my point of
view, anyway.
> I will be directing my charity in other directions. I understand that
> Gary is under stress, but I won't put up with that kind of abuse from
> anyone. If my boss talked to me like that, I'd quit my job. If my
> parents talked to me like that, I'd quit visiting them. Gary started
> this by mentioning my name for no reason, and then telling me to
> FOAD when I responded. Well, as far as I'm concerned, he can take
> his toothache and go someplace warm.
I'm sure I could have handled this better. But I'm also sure you could have
as well. Perhaps I should have instead quietly written you back and
attempted to privately explain to you why I was unhappy with what you said;
probably that would have been wiser, and I know it would have been more
temperate. But I was intemperate, and publically snarled at you instead.
As ever, that's a strike against my karma. I hope we both go on to be well.
David Goldfarb
>It's definitely Fall here, full of new wine, and persimmons, and
>falling leaves. And the aloes are flowering all along the coast,
>and the chestnuts are fat and sweet this year, which is enough for
>me to forgive the rain for being too weak to clean the cobblestones
>properly, and the cold for being too hard and withering the buds off
>the gardenia.
Susana, you are an ornament to this group. Please stay a while. :-)
One of Katie's bread machine recipe books had a Portuguese sweet bread
in it, which we tried out because you'd mentioned that. It was nicely
puffy and lemony.
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "Oh no, foolish Jed, you have let out
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | the verbal gerbils!"
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- _Sandman_ #11
aste...@slip.net |
David Owen-Cruise
rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 18:14:54 GMT, David Owen-Cruise
> <dowen...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <3a14c661...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> > rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
> >
> >> The grass has already begun to grow. It is quite green on the
> >> hills. Winter is all wet and slimy and slippery and alive.
> >>
> >Sounds like Spring to me. I fear an extended stay in California
> >might throw my sense of the seasons thoroughly out of whack.
> >
> >My beloved has threatened to move us to what she considers a rational
> >climate, and storing me in a walk-in freezer for a week or two in
> >January. I think she's kidding.
> >
>
> No, this is how it is. Winter is when it gets wet and slimy and
> green, and the good fungus happens (so does the bad fungus).
> Mosses and lichens fruit. Predatory birds, large food fish, and
> cetaceans are abundant. Also monarch butterflies.
>
things are about to get seriously wet and slimy. We make a pilgrimage
every year down towards Winona looking for the eagles pacing the edge of
the ice up the Mississipi.
> Spring is flowers. And wind. And baby things.
>
The transformation of the wet slimy ground into green and flowers and
baby things is the magic of Spring. That and the fact that the wind no
longer slices right through you.
> The division point is when the baby elephant seals happen: then
> you know the flowers are coming.
>
Eh, the flowers come when the flowers come. Sometimes the daffodils
pop through the snow. That's usually a sign that Spring will last about
two days, at the most, and we'll swing right into Summer.
> That's the difference.
>
> I agree with your beloved, that this is a rational climate. I
> think lethal weather is nuts.
>
She's British, so she thinks your climate is too dry. She's eyeballing
the territory from Point Reyes on up towards Victoria Island.
A lethal winter is Mother Nature's way of annually reminding us that she
is tougher and more persistent than we are. Earthquakes and droughts
make the same point, but less predictably.
David Owen-Cruise
rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:22:03 -0000, "Susana Serras Pereira"
> <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
[snip]
> >Together, we shall go forth and break apart the capital letters of
> >rassef, and erect words where once stood noises, and meaning where
> >once was naught!
> >
>
> You see that, people? No obfuscation is safe now! We're a
> movement!
>
Mind you, they do tend to obfuscate with complete words, not acronyms.
Rob Wynne
>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
>nor work.
I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
Rob
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
The best original science-fiction and fantasy on the web:
Aphelion Webzine: http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Gafilk 2001: Jan 5-7, 2001, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org
Here among the madness, don't forget it's all for dragons and stars.
--Maureen O'Brien
Erik V. Olson
>Susana Serras Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
>>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
>>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
>>nor work.
>
>I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
>The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
>months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
>privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
>
It is the ETLAs you have to watch out for.
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
David G. Bell
<Z%cS5.1192$xb1....@eagle.america.net> d...@america.net
"Rob Wynne" wrote:
> Susana Serras Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
> >Heh. The truly horrible thing about TLA's (that's Terrifying Little
> >Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
> >pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
> >and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
> >nor work.
>
> I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
> The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
> months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
> privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
All Kittens Increase Cats In Fandom
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
We suffer as a society and a culture when we don't pay the true value of
goods and services delivered. We create a lack of production. Less good
music is recorded if we remove the incentive to create it. -- Courtney Love
Dave Weingart
>Community can also be encouraged by dancing in the street in a
>light sweater on New Year's Eve: dire is not the only way.
Dancing on the streets in a light sweater on New Year's Eve around these
parts is likely to be pretty dire.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Consonance 2001! Urban Tapestry!
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Mike Stein! Oh, yeah, and some guy
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux named Dave Wein-something-or-other.
ICQ 57055207 http://www.consonance.org
Keith F. Lynch
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> You're an example of a kind of Libertarian I find baffling, (Zev's
> another) a good-hearted individual who has no belief in community as
> a good thing.
Uh, no. (Flabbergasted.)
I think community is a very good thing. Fandom, for instance. I
can't think of any libertarians who disagree.
> It depends on the toothache. An untreated abscess can kill you,
> really, it's septic and it's right in your mouth, you can get blood
> poisoning It's one of the things a dentist can (and will) prescribe
> antibiotics for.
When I finally got dental care in 1996, I was told I had an old
untreated abscess.
It *can* kill you, but is very unlikely to. Like crossing the street.
Even before widespread dentistry, this was never a major cause of death.
Pain, yes. Death, very seldom.
Susana Serras Pereira
"David Goldfarb" <gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:8vauvc$6tk$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
> Susana, you are an ornament to this group.
Thank you. I am a blushing little ornament on the great festooned
branches of rassef.
> Please stay a while. :-)
I'm planning to. I like it here, a lot.
> One of Katie's bread machine recipe books had a Portuguese sweet bread
> in it, which we tried out because you'd mentioned that. It was nicely
> puffy and lemony.
Puffy, I know, but lemony? I don't think I've ever met a lemony
Portuguese sweet bread. I have to go dig through the cookbooks now.
If I don't resurface, remember, it's all your fault.
Could you tell me more about this bread?
I don't have any bread machine recipes, as I don't have (nor hope to
have) a bread machine: I like kneading, and the object of my
superfluous kitchen gadgetry lust is an ice-cream machine. But I can
send you a couple of my favorite Portuguese bread recipes, if you'd
like them -- I gather there are conversions that can be made.
Susana, wondering what kind of a tree rassef would be
Susana Serras Pereira
"Erik V. Olson" <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote in message
news:slrn91ion9...@calcium.physiciansedge.com...
> >>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
> >>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
> >>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
> >>nor work.
> >
> >I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
> >The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
> >months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
> >privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
> >
>
AAARGH!
(Aaaaargh, Aaaaargh, Aaaaaargh, Grrr, Hurumph !)
Susana, extra-territorial, elfin teenage, enormous tities...
Scott Taylor
Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
> "Erik V. Olson" <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote in message
> news:slrn91ion9...@calcium.physiciansedge.com...
> > On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:16:41 GMT, Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
> > >Susana Serras Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
> > >>Heh. The truly horrible thing about TLA's (that's Terrifying Little
> > >>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
> > >>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
> > >>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
> > >>nor work.
> > >
> > >I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
> > >The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
> > >months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
> > >privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
> > >
> >
> > It is the ETLAs you have to watch out for.
>
> AAARGH!
> (Aaaaargh, Aaaaargh, Aaaaaargh, Grrr, Hurumph !)
>
>
> Susana, extra-territorial, elfin teenage, enormous tities...
(izzy decides to have a moment of charity and good niceness and stuff,
and saves Susana's life in the process...).
Extended Three Letter Acronyms
:-)
--
Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Powerbook, Will Travel
Ray Radlein
>
> rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
> >
> > You see that, people? No obfuscation is safe now! We're a
> > movement!
> >
> If you take obfuscation away from Ray and Kip, they're gonna
> pout. Mind you, they do tend to obfuscate with complete words,
> not acronyms.
A camel is more likely to be found wearing boxer shorts than a fish
is; that doesn't mean it will look any better.
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Monday, May 7. The weather was warm. I was working the day watch
out of Robbery-Homicide with my partner, Frank Gannon. The Boss
had just complimented me, and my nipples crinkled with delight."
-- Robert A. Heinlein's "Dragnet"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Katie Schwarz
>> in it, which we tried out because you'd mentioned that. It was nicely
>> puffy and lemony.
>
>Puffy, I know, but lemony? I don't think I've ever met a lemony
>Portuguese sweet bread. I have to go dig through the cookbooks now.
>If I don't resurface, remember, it's all your fault.
>
>Could you tell me more about this bread?
The cookbook said:
2 eggs
1/3 cup milk
1 tsp vanilla
1/2 tsp salt
2 tsp grated lemon rind
3 T sugar
2 cups flour
1 1/2 tsp yeast
This was very sweet, like a lemon muffin. Is this inauthentic? We'll
just have to do it over again correctly, then, won't we.
--
Katie Schwarz
"There's no need to look for a Chimera, or a cat with three legs."
-- Jorge Luis Borges, "Death and the Compass"
David Goldfarb
>>> in it, which we tried out because you'd mentioned that. It was nicely
>>> puffy and lemony.
>>
>>Puffy, I know, but lemony? I don't think I've ever met a lemony
>>Portuguese sweet bread. I have to go dig through the cookbooks now.
>>If I don't resurface, remember, it's all your fault.
>>
>>Could you tell me more about this bread?
>
>2 eggs
>1/3 cup milk
>1 tsp vanilla
>1/2 tsp salt
>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>3 T sugar
>2 cups flour
>1 1/2 tsp yeast
>
>This was very sweet, like a lemon muffin. Is this inauthentic? We'll
>just have to do it over again correctly, then, won't we.
Yes, what she said. Do please send along those recipes.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"To the general public "calories" are not units
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |of measurement but evil creatures that live in
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |tasty food and make people fat."
aste...@slip.net | -- Bill Jennings on rec.arts.comics.misc
Thomas Womack
> > It is the ETLAs you have to watch out for.
>
> AAARGH!
> (Aaaaargh, Aaaaargh, Aaaaaargh, Grrr, Hurumph !)
Extended Three-Letter Acronym.
Extended in that it has more than three letters.
I'm not quite sure why three letters is the standard length for acronyms,
and am not on-line at the moment so cannot check in the Jargon File.
Tom
David Goldfarb
Thomas Womack <t...@womack.net> wrote:
>I'm not quite sure why three letters is the standard length for acronyms,
>and am not on-line at the moment so cannot check in the Jargon File.
Cue Allen Sherman:
Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila,
Oh, the day they met.
Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila,
No one will forget.
Harvey's a CPA.
He works for IBM.
He went to MIT and got his PhD.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | Private .sig -- please do not read.
aste...@slip.net |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
Goldfarb) wrote:
>In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>Susana Serras Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>>>"David Goldfarb" <gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> One of Katie's bread machine recipe books had a Portuguese sweet bread
>>>> in it, which we tried out because you'd mentioned that. It was nicely
>>>> puffy and lemony.
>>>
>>>Puffy, I know, but lemony? I don't think I've ever met a lemony
>>>Portuguese sweet bread. I have to go dig through the cookbooks now.
>>>If I don't resurface, remember, it's all your fault.
>>>
>>>Could you tell me more about this bread?
>>
>>The cookbook said:
>>2 eggs
>>1/3 cup milk
>>1 tsp vanilla
>>1/2 tsp salt
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>>3 T sugar
>>2 cups flour
>>1 1/2 tsp yeast
>>
>>This was very sweet, like a lemon muffin. Is this inauthentic? We'll
>>just have to do it over again correctly, then, won't we.
>
>Yes, what she said. Do please send along those recipes.
And send them *here*.
vlatko
--
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
Mike Kozlowski
>2 tsp grated lemon rind
As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
the outside, and then throw it away.
(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
--
Mike Kozlowski
http://www.klio.org/mlk/
Irina Rempt
> As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> lemon rind?
Dutch supermarkets sell lemon rind with sugar in a jar. If you're
going to put sugar in whatever you need the lemon rind for anyway,
you can use a little less sugar and put in the lemon stuff instead.
Irina
--
ir...@valdyas.org http://www.valdyas.org/irina
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| When all other means of communication fail, try words. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Weingart
>Allen Sherman? I have a vague recollection of such in
>my parents record collection when I was wee.
>
>Was that the, "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda" album?
No, same singer, but different album. "Harvey and Shiela" is on either
"My Son the Celebrity" or "My Son the Folk Singer"
Hello Muddah, Hello Faddah is on...umm....damn, brain fart, the album with
the nuts on the cover.
Alison Hopkins
Mike Kozlowski wrote in message <7m1ev8...@muse.klio.org>...
>In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
>the outside, and then throw it away.
>
>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>
I've seen small jars of dried lemon rind for sale in the US. You can
substitute a really good lemon oil, imo.
Ali
Lori Coulson
: In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
: Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
: >2 tsp grated lemon rind
: As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
: lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
: the outside, and then throw it away.
: (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
Lemon rind can be obtained from the spice section of your local grocery
store. (Orange rind, too, and I'm not talking about the glace peel that
is used for fruitcakes.) You can also get the expressed oil of lemon or
orange peel, which gives your baked goods a heavier citrus taste...Yum.
Lori Coulson
--
*****************************************************
...Or do you still wait for me, Dream Giver...
Just around the riverbend? Pocahontas
*****************************************************
Mary Kay Kare
> One day in Teletubbyland, Guy <cyp...@punk.net> said:
> >Allen Sherman? I have a vague recollection of such in
> >my parents record collection when I was wee.
> >
> >Was that the, "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda" album?
>
> No, same singer, but different album. "Harvey and Shiela" is on either
> "My Son the Celebrity" or "My Son the Folk Singer"
>
> Hello Muddah, Hello Faddah is on...umm....damn, brain fart, the album with
> the nuts on the cover.
>
That would be My Son the Nut. We owned that album and I still know most
of the songs by heart. Hmm. I wonder if these are available on CD.
MKK
--
Stamp out tin toys!
Mary Kay Kare
> In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
> >2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
> As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
> the outside, and then throw it away.
Not really, though I suppose you could try using a *very* small amount of
lemon oil--not extract. Or use up the lemon in tea, or lemonade, or lemon
curd.
>
> (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>
Okay, hand it over and I will. I love them with salt.
Mike Kozlowski
Mary Kay Kare <ka...@sirius.com> wrote:
>In article <7m1ev8...@muse.klio.org>, m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski) wrote:
[Lemons]
>> (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>>
>Okay, hand it over and I will. I love them with salt.
My tongue hurts just thinking about that...
Jacque Marshall
>In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
>the outside, and then throw it away.
>
>
From: jac...@UNSPAM.olagrande.net (Jacque)
Reply-To: jac...@UNSPAM.olagrande.net
--jm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacque Marshall jac...@UNSPAM.olagrande.net http://www.eskimo.com/~jacquem
Jacque
Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
>
>Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
>the outside, and then throw it away.
>
>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
Bake a fish to go with, perhaps?
Keith Thompson
> In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
> >2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
> As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
> the outside, and then throw it away.
>
> (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
If life hands you lemons ...
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) k...@cts.com <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://www.sdsc.edu/~kst>
Welcome to the last year of the 20th century.
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .]
> Allen Sherman? I have a vague recollection of such in
> my parents record collection when I was wee.
> Was that the, "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda" album?
Probably. Sherman was also somewhat famous for his autobiography, _The Gift
of Laughter_, which was a best-seller after he killed himself. A classic
version of the story of Jewish comedy-writing in America in the
mid-Twentieth.
--
Gary Farber New York
Temporary e-mail address: gfa...@my-deja.com
gfa...@savvy.com
> In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
> As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
> the outside, and then throw it away.
> (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
There's a cliche here about lemonade, you know.
Vicki Rosenzweig
>In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
>the outside, and then throw it away.
>
>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
There are plenty of uses for lemon juice, though: cooking of
all sorts, lemonade, or in tea.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Vicki Rosenzweig
>Susana Serras Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>>Heh. The truly horrible thing about TLA's (that's Terrifying Little
>>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
>>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
>>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
>>nor work.
>
>I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
>The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
>months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
>privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
>
Didn't I put that in the FAQ? If not, I must remedy this.
Mike Kozlowski
Vicki Rosenzweig <v...@redbird.org> wrote:
>Quoth m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski) on Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:43:19 -0600:
>>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
>>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
>>the outside, and then throw it away.
>>
>>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>
>There are plenty of uses for lemon juice, though: cooking of
>all sorts, lemonade, or in tea.
Yeah. But the thing about cooking is, I tend to do it about once every,
oh, three months or so; so I don't really keep around all these
"ingredients" because they'd go bad -- I buy things to make whatever
particular recipe I've decided to make, and then whatever's left over sits
and rots until I finally throw it away. Which bugs me, so I tend to only
make recipes that use up whole units of whatever perishables they require.
The worst is when I feel the urge to make cookies, because they only
require a bit of milk and a couple of eggs, so I end up throwing away
bunches of both.
Mike Kozlowski
Lucy Kemnitzer <rit...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:57:05 -0600, m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski)
>wrote:
>>Yeah. But the thing about cooking is, I tend to do it about once every,
>>oh, three months or so;
>
>Mike, I know I'm getting too personal here, but what do you eat in
>the meantime?
Things that require few discrete ingredients, few dishes, and almost no
steps beyond "remove from packaging; insert into cooking device; heat for
x minutes; remove and eat." Frozen pizzas are big; frozen anything,
really, because I can just go to the grocery store once a month, buy all I
need, and not have to worry about it rotting on me. (Lately, I've been
eating a lot of ham and cheese sandwiches, which are tasty and easy to
make, but have the disadvantage of requiring ingredients which are prone
to going bad.)
I understand why a lot of people enjoy cooking, and when I'm in the mood
for it every so often, I enjoy it too. But on a more regular basis,
spending time and effort making food (and doing the dishes associated with
that) is just a chore that I want to avoid. Yes, this means that I miss
some culinary pleasures, and that I'm not getting an especially healthy
diet (although canned vegetables are easy to store and heat, so I do eat
those regularly), but there's just no way I'll ever summon the desire to
spend hours slaving away at a stove and a sink.
This is actually one of the petty annoyances of being a single person
living alone. Cooking is a task that scales reasonably well -- it's not
much harder to make whatever for five people than it is to make it for
one, and ingredients often come in sizes more appropriate to families.
Plus, cooking an elaborate sit-down meal when I'm the only person who'll
know or care seems like a colossal waste of effort. I try not to conform
to bachelor stereotypes, but in some areas, it just makes logistical
sense.
Kip Williams
>
> David Owen-Cruise wrote:
> >
> > rit...@cruzio.com (Lucy Kemnitzer) wrote:
> > >
> > > You see that, people? No obfuscation is safe now! We're a
> > > movement!
> > >
> > If you take obfuscation away from Ray and Kip, they're gonna
> > pout. Mind you, they do tend to obfuscate with complete words,
> > not acronyms.
>
> A camel is more likely to be found wearing boxer shorts than a fish
> is; that doesn't mean it will look any better.
Apples and Oranges, say the bells of Saint Something-or-other's.
--
--Kip (Williams)
amusing the world at http://members.home.net/kipw/
Kip Williams
>
> In article <kare-21110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>,
> Mary Kay Kare <ka...@sirius.com> wrote:
> >In article <7m1ev8...@muse.klio.org>, m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski) wrote:
>
> [Lemons]
>
> >>
>
> My tongue hurts just thinking about that...
Lemon tree, very pretty
And the lemon flower is sweet
But the fruit of the poor lemon
Is impossible to eat.
Kip Williams
>
> In article <8vdcvt$t0u$2...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Thomas Womack <t...@womack.net> wrote:
> >I'm not quite sure why three letters is the standard length for acronyms,
> >and am not on-line at the moment so cannot check in the Jargon File.
>
> Cue Allen Sherman:
> Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila,
> Oh, the day they met.
> Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila, Harvey and Sheila,
> No one will forget.
> Harvey's a CPA.
> He works for IBM.
> He went to MIT and got his PhD.
Down on Fourth Street, U.S.A.?
Mary Kay Kare
> Mike Kozlowski wrote:
> >
> > In article <kare-21110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>,
> > Mary Kay Kare <ka...@sirius.com> wrote:
> > >In article <7m1ev8...@muse.klio.org>, m...@klio.org (Mike
Kozlowski) wrote:
> >
> > [Lemons]
> >
> > >> (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
> > >>
> > >Okay, hand it over and I will. I love them with salt.
> >
> > My tongue hurts just thinking about that...
>
> Lemon tree, very pretty
> And the lemon flower is sweet
> But the fruit of the poor lemon
> Is impossible to eat.
>
That line always has annoyed me since I eat lemons regularly. Though less
often than I used to since I have GRD. I have always liked sour, salty,
and bitter things.
Janice Gelb
>One day in Teletubbyland, Guy <cyp...@punk.net> said:
>>my parents record collection when I was wee.
>>
>>Was that the, "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda" album?
>
>"My Son the Celebrity" or "My Son the Folk Singer"
>
>Hello Muddah, Hello Faddah is on...umm....damn, brain fart, the album with
>the nuts on the cover.
>
"Harvey and Sheila" is on "My Son, the Celebrity"
"Hello Mudduh, Hello Fadduh" is on "My Son, the Nut"
Rhino has released on CD "My Son, the Greatest: The Best of
Allan Sherman" which contains both songs, along with other
classics such as "Shake Hands with Your Uncle Max" and
"Sarah Jackman."
***********************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@marvin.eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
"Politics is show business for ugly people" -- James Carville
Kip Williams
Well, it always seemed silly to me, as a kid. I knew that people eat
lemons. Sheesh...
Erik V. Olson
>Quoth Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> on Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:16:41 GMT:
>
>>Susana Serras Pereira <ni...@netzero.pt> wrote:
>>>Heh. The truly horrible thing about TLA's (that's Terrifying Little
>>>Acronyms to me) is that, cat person though I be, I am the owner of a
>>>pitbull terrier-like brain, that seizes on life's smallest mysteries,
>>>and never, ever unclenches from their necks, not for rest nor nutrition
>>>nor work.
>>
>>I have the same affliction. I can usually puzzle them out from context.
>>The one that gave me fits when i first resumed lurking in here a few
>>months ago was AKICIF, which I finally had to break down and ask someone
>>privately. (Thanks, Dave.)
>>
>Didn't I put that in the FAQ? If not, I must remedy this.
Q. AKICIF?
A. Pretty much so, though we still haven't found a away to stop Jordin from
punning in public.
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
Lucy Kemnitzer
wrote:
>In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
>Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
>>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
>the outside, and then throw it away.
>
>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
You can buy dried grated lemon rind in the spice section of your
local store, if you really can't think of any use for a lemon.
I have had to find uses for a thousand lemons at a time, and I am
proud to say I did.
(giving them away promiscously counts as finding a use)
Lucy Kemnitzer
Lucy Kemnitzer
wrote:
>In article <dg8m1t8kr2m05amlk...@4ax.com>,
>Vicki Rosenzweig <v...@redbird.org> wrote:
>>Quoth m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski) on Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:43:19 -0600:
>
>>>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
>>>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
>>>the outside, and then throw it away.
>>>
>>>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>>
>>There are plenty of uses for lemon juice, though: cooking of
>>all sorts, lemonade, or in tea.
>
>Yeah. But the thing about cooking is, I tend to do it about once every,
>oh, three months or so; so I don't really keep around all these
>"ingredients" because they'd go bad -- I buy things to make whatever
>particular recipe I've decided to make, and then whatever's left over sits
>and rots until I finally throw it away. Which bugs me, so I tend to only
>make recipes that use up whole units of whatever perishables they require.
>
>The worst is when I feel the urge to make cookies, because they only
>require a bit of milk and a couple of eggs, so I end up throwing away
>bunches of both.
Mike, I know I'm getting too personal here, but what do you eat in
the meantime?
Lucy Kemnitzer
Mary Kay Kare
> In article <dg8m1t8kr2m05amlk...@4ax.com>,
> Vicki Rosenzweig <v...@redbird.org> wrote:
> >Quoth m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski) on Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:43:19 -0600:
>
> >>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> >>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
> >>the outside, and then throw it away.
> >>
> >>(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
> >
> >There are plenty of uses for lemon juice, though: cooking of
> >all sorts, lemonade, or in tea.
>
> Yeah. But the thing about cooking is, I tend to do it about once every,
> oh, three months or so; so I don't really keep around all these
> "ingredients" because they'd go bad -- I buy things to make whatever
> particular recipe I've decided to make, and then whatever's left over sits
> and rots until I finally throw it away. Which bugs me, so I tend to only
> make recipes that use up whole units of whatever perishables they require.
>
> The worst is when I feel the urge to make cookies, because they only
> require a bit of milk and a couple of eggs, so I end up throwing away
> bunches of both.
>
Make enough batches to use them all and freeze the cookie dough for
another day. Note: It isn't wise to double the cookie recipe--cookie
dough is generally quite stiff and even my heavy duty Kitchen Aid made
heavy work of a double batch of chocolate chip cookies. And of course,
you can buy milk in quite small quantities--or even keep powdered milk on
hand to reconstitute as needed. This is what I used to do before I
started living with Jordin who drinks milk so there's always some around.
The smallest number of eggs I can usually buy is 6 though.
Mary Kay Kare
Kemnitzer) wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:43:19 -0600, m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> >Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> >
> >>2 tsp grated lemon rind
> >
> >As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> >lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
> >the outside, and then throw it away.
> >
> >(And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>
>
> You can buy dried grated lemon rind in the spice section of your
> local store, if you really can't think of any use for a lemon.
However, drying tends to take the oil out of the rind and since that's
what gives it the taste, the whole exercise is sort of pointless.
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .]
> Mike, I know I'm getting too personal here, but what do you eat in
> the meantime?
Scrabbles for nuts. Just don't ask where he hides them, or the best sources
for berries.
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .]
> This is actually one of the petty annoyances of being a single person
> living alone. Cooking is a task that scales reasonably well -- it's not
> much harder to make whatever for five people than it is to make it for
> one, and ingredients often come in sizes more appropriate to families.
> Plus, cooking an elaborate sit-down meal when I'm the only person who'll
> know or care seems like a colossal waste of effort. I try not to conform
> to bachelor stereotypes, but in some areas, it just makes logistical
> sense.
A very large number of dishes can be made in very large batches, and then
frozen in meal-size proportions; this has the advantage of being vastly
cheaper than buying store-bought, and may taste far better, but I do
entirely appreciate your cost-benefit ratio. My fondness for cooking for
its own sake is on the limited side, myself. That is, I can actually enjoy
doing it, but I tend to far more enjoy doing a lot of other things I could
be doing in that time, and so I tend to feel a bit impatient with time spent
cooking.
Ray Radlein
>
> Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
> >
> > Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>
> >>2 tsp grated lemon rind
>
> > As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy
> > substitute for lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of
> > a lemon to buy it just for the outside, and then throw it away.
>
> > (And I'm sure not going to eat it straight up, either.)
>
Ah, yes. "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man lemonade."
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Monday, May 7. The weather was warm. I was working the day watch
out of Robbery-Homicide with my partner, Frank Gannon. The Boss
had just complimented me, and my nipples crinkled with delight."
-- Robert A. Heinlein's "Dragnet"
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
>My fondness for cooking for
>its own sake is on the limited side, myself. That is, I can actually enjoy
>doing it, but I tend to far more enjoy doing a lot of other things I could
>be doing in that time, and so I tend to feel a bit impatient with time spent
>cooking.
Visit Heather-Darkhawk's Web page. She has a section called "For
writers who forget eating." A lot of dishes done very quickly (15-20
minutes) and, generally, very cheaply.
vlatko (the only thing I don't mind the time spent on is cakes)
--
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
Thanks for the recipe.
>If you don't have any ounces, only cups, it says here that 2 oz is a
>quarter of a cup... but that can't be because flour and sugar take up
>very different volumes in my measuring cylinder.
It says here, in a cookbook produced for Australia, 1 cup - 250ml -
8fl oz. With dry things, 1 cup flour (plain or self-raising) - 125g -
4 oz. So your measure of 60g or 2 oz is just a smidgen less than half
a cup of flour. No sugar, but if I remember correctly, the volume is
something like -> flour:sugar=1:1.25. So, 2 oz of sugar would be like
.60 of a cup, if I'm not wrong.
BTW, what's the difference between caster and icing sugar?
Is anybody still collecting the recipes for flour-less chocolate
cakes? I have one here that sounds tasty.
vlatko
--
vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr
Mary Kay Kare
>
> If you don't have any ounces, only cups, it says here that 2 oz is a
> quarter of a cup... but that can't be because flour and sugar take up
> very different volumes in my measuring cylinder. This is a British
> recipe and won't work with cups. I suggest you acquire some ounces, or
> gms would be fine. If you have gms, 2 oz is close enough to 60 gms
> that the fiddly difference doesn't matter at all.
Kitchen scales are easily available in the US and I recommend them. Mike,
as a non-cliched, bachelor isn't likely to have one, but lots of us do.
> Put cake cases in patty tins.
Umm. Does this translate to put paper cupcake thingies in the muffin
tin? Can somebody tell me? How thick are these cakelets we're making?
> (Maybe I should write a recipe book and call it _Jo's Opinionated Recipe
> Book_. :)
Well, I'd buy it; but I have 3 cases of cookbooks...
Mike Kozlowski
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <h59fv8...@muse.klio.org> m...@klio.org "Mike Kozlowski" writes:
>
>> The worst is when I feel the urge to make cookies, because they only
>> require a bit of milk and a couple of eggs, so I end up throwing away
>> bunches of both.
>
I probably should have mentioned that I'm allergic to both milk and eggs
taken straight. Much less so these days than I used to be -- I'm
informed that as an infant, my skin would get a rash if milk was spilled
on it -- but enough so that the more conventional uses of both ingredients
aren't feasible.
>Milk freezes.
Does it really? And unfreezes usefully?
>Cookie dough freezes. You could make twice as much as you need
>and freeze half for next time. Also you could use the other two eggs to make
>muffins or cakelets while you're cooking, and freeze those.
Yes, I suppose I could. That had never really occurred to me before -- I
have a mental association between actual cooking and fresh ingredients --
but yes, that would be feasible, I think.
[Interesting, but perhaps overly complicated, recipe noted and saved for
potential further use.]
Avram Grumer
> If you don't have any ounces, only cups, it says here that 2 oz is a
> quarter of a cup... but that can't be because flour and sugar take up
> very different volumes in my measuring cylinder. This is a British
> recipe and won't work with cups. I suggest you acquire some ounces, or
> gms would be fine. If you have gms, 2 oz is close enough to 60 gms
> that the fiddly difference doesn't matter at all.
I had noticed before that in the world of cooking, weight and volume seem
to be interchangeable.
--
Avram Grumer | av...@grumer.org | http://www.PigsAndFishes.org
"The American people have now spoken, but it's going to take
a little while to figure out exactly what they said."
-- Bill Clinton, 7 Nov. 2000
Alison Hopkins
Avram Grumer wrote in message ...
>In article <974886...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>> If you don't have any ounces, only cups, it says here that 2 oz is a
>> quarter of a cup... but that can't be because flour and sugar take up
>> very different volumes in my measuring cylinder. This is a British
>> recipe and won't work with cups. I suggest you acquire some ounces, or
>> gms would be fine. If you have gms, 2 oz is close enough to 60 gms
>> that the fiddly difference doesn't matter at all.
>
>I had noticed before that in the world of cooking, weight and volume seem
>to be interchangeable.
Ah, but in this case, they're both weights.
Ali
Mike Kozlowski
Heather Anne Nicoll
> On 22 Nov 2000 04:53:18 GMT, gfa...@savvy.com wrote:
> >its own sake is on the limited side, myself. That is, I can actually enjoy
> >doing it, but I tend to far more enjoy doing a lot of other things I could
> >be doing in that time, and so I tend to feel a bit impatient with time spent
> >cooking.
> writers who forget eating." A lot of dishes done very quickly (15-20
> minutes) and, generally, very cheaply.
*warm fuzzy feeling*
*sigh* I need to update that -- I'm way behind on submissions.
- Darkhawk, feeling referenced
--
Heather Nicoll - Darkhawk - http://aelfhame.net/~darkhawk/
My life is burning -- could you read by the light?
- Savatage, "Symmetry"
Alison Hopkins
Jo Walton wrote in message <974918...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>...
>In article <0hnn1tovss9m9t3en...@news.cis.dfn.de>
> vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr "Vlatko Juric-Kokic" writes:
>
>> BTW, what's the difference between caster and icing sugar?
>
>is powder, as fine as flour.
>
>There is no need to bother with caster sugar, IMO, you may as well just
>use ordinary sugar.
>
I'd not quite agree on that; in my experience, if you are making a light
sponge or Madeira cake, then caster works much better. Having said that, I
don't know what the preceding posts said here! :)
Ali
Alison Hopkins
Mike Kozlowski wrote in message <2u5hv8...@muse.klio.org>...
No, I meant ounces and grammes, which was the way I read Avram's comment, if
you see what I mean?
Ali
Lucy Kemnitzer
Walton) wrote:
>In article <kare-22110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
> ka...@sirius.com "Mary Kay Kare" writes:
>
>> In article <974886...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> > Put cake cases in patty tins.
>>
>> Umm. Does this translate to put paper cupcake thingies in the muffin
>> tin? Can somebody tell me? How thick are these cakelets we're making?
>
>Smaller than muffins. Twelve of them fit in one patty tin which goes on
>a shelf of a standard size oven. About the size of... (quickly runs through
>things that size and dismisses many of them as not available in the US,
>including mince pies)... satsumas.
Do you mean tangerines or plums?
Lucy Kemnitzer
Alison Hopkins
Lucy Kemnitzer wrote in message <3a1c32c7...@enews.newsguy.com>...
Satsumas are akin to tangerines and clementines, and are a traditional
British Christmas thing, to boot.
Ali
Keith Thompson
[...]
> >Milk freezes.
>
> Does it really? And unfreezes usefully?
Yes. I regularly freeze 1-quart cartons of milk. It tends to
separate when it thaws, so be sure to shake it afterwards.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) k...@cts.com <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://www.sdsc.edu/~kst>
Welcome to the last year of the 20th century.
Avram Grumer
> In article <kare-22110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
> ka...@sirius.com "Mary Kay Kare" writes:
>
> > In article <974886...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Put cake cases in patty tins.
> >
> > Umm. Does this translate to put paper cupcake thingies in the muffin
> > tin? Can somebody tell me? How thick are these cakelets we're making?
>
> Smaller than muffins. Twelve of them fit in one patty tin which goes on
> a shelf of a standard size oven. About the size of... (quickly runs
> through things that size and dismisses many of them as not available in
> the US, including mince pies)... satsumas.
Until I looked the word up, I wasn't sure if a satsuma was supposed to be
the size of a cakelet, of the tin, or the standard oven. Now that's I've
looked it up (Satsuma: A former province in Kyushu, Japan; a fruit-bearing
tree; the fruit of that tree -- I'm betting you meant the third of those
definitions), I figure it's probably the size of a cakelet, but I still
don't know what that is. I do know how to convert centimeters into
inches, if that's not taking all the fun out of it.
This reminds me of the episode of _M*A*S*H_ in which Hawkeye is trying to
specify a certain size of arterial graft using macaroni types, and the
Japanese/Hawaiian nurse asks for "ethnic measurements I can understand."
Del Cotter
I've been down on my luck in the past, and I never thought much of
people offering me what amounted to an application form for charity, on
the understanding that it might be forthcoming at a later date if they
approved of the answers I gave them.
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, in rec.arts.sf.fandom,
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>I will be directing my charity in other directions. I understand that
>Gary is under stress, but I won't put up with that kind of abuse from
>anyone. If my boss talked to me like that, I'd quit my job.
I don't know if you've noticed this, Keith, but you never actually *did*
direct your charity in this case.
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:IainBanksWhit:DorothyDunnettTheGameOfKings:SMStirlingAgainstTheTide
OfYears:HBeamPiperSpaceViking:JoWaltonTheKingsPeace:StephenBaxterSilverhair:
ToRead:KSRobinsonTheGoldCoast:IainMBanksLookToWindward:JackWomackAmbient:Dod
Del Cotter
Mike Kozlowski (Millennium Hand and Shrimp) wrote:
>Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Milk freezes.
>
>Does it really? And unfreezes usefully?
Half fat does, full fat doesn't, IME. In my trips to the supermarket, I
buy a litre of full fat to drink straight away and a litre of half fat
to put in the freezer for when the other container has run out.
Alyson L. Abramowitz
> > > Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > >>2 tsp grated lemon rind
> >
> > > As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy
> > > substitute for lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of
> > > a lemon to buy it just for the outside, and then throw it away.
You can buy lemon peel in the supermarket in the baking spice section. This
will last for a looong time. Not quite as good as the fresh stuff but no
one will notice the difference in most recipes.
Best,
Alyson
Alyson L. Abramowitz
> I
> The worst is when I feel the urge to make cookies, because they only
> require a bit of milk and a couple of eggs, so I end up throwing away
> bunches of both.
Now that folks have solved your milk problem, the eggs are fairly easy. You can
get egg substitutes (e.g., Egg Beaters) in the frozen food or the egg section of
the supermarket. These can be frozen and the proper amount unthawed for use.
They'll work for anything that calls for a whole egg that isn't dominated by an
egg taste. I've noticed frozen egg whites in the same section but haven't tried
them. The powered egg whites work fine if you need them in a recipe. Since
they are boxed they'll keep for a long time.
Best,
Alyson
[who normally has fresh eggs and milk in the house but dried lemon peel]
Thomas Womack
> vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr "Vlatko Juric-Kokic" writes:
>
> > BTW, what's the difference between caster and icing sugar?
>
> Caster sugar is just a bit finer than granulated cane sugar. Icing sugar
> is powder, as fine as flour.
>
> There is no need to bother with caster sugar, IMO, you may as well just
> use ordinary sugar.
Inadvertently, I conducted the controlled experiment last summer, when I was
asked to make four Victoria sponge cakes for Dad's birthday.
The one made with granulated sugar, before Mum came in and wondered why on
Earth I'd thought granulated sugar could be substituted for caster sugar in
this context, came out considerably flatter and chewier.
Tom
Thomas Womack
> Kitchen scales are easily available in the US and I recommend them. Mike,
> as a non-cliched, bachelor isn't likely to have one, but lots of us do.
They are very useful and cost four pounds. Though at the moment I can't
convince myself to cook at all, even chocolate cakes, and so the bowl of my
kitchen scale is currently an abode of spiders.
Tom
Avedon Carol
wrote:
>Until I looked the word up, I wasn't sure if a satsuma was supposed to be
>the size of a cakelet, of the tin, or the standard oven. Now that's I've
>looked it up (Satsuma: A former province in Kyushu, Japan; a fruit-bearing
>tree; the fruit of that tree -- I'm betting you meant the third of those
>definitions), I figure it's probably the size of a cakelet, but I still
>don't know what that is. I do know how to convert centimeters into
>inches, if that's not taking all the fun out of it.
A satsuma is a small orange, similar in size to a mandarin, and also
very sweet. i love them, even though the citrus makes my tongue burn.
gfa...@savvy.com
[. . .]
> A satsuma is a small orange, similar in size to a mandarin, and also
> very sweet. i love them, even though the citrus makes my tongue burn.
Satsummas are very common in America (though my unscientific impression is
that they're more closely related to tangerines). The thing is, satsumma
plums are not uncommon, either.
Lucy Kemnitzer
<fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>Lucy Kemnitzer wrote in message <3a1c32c7...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>>On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:47:16 GMT, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk (Jo
>>Walton) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <kare-22110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
>>> ka...@sirius.com "Mary Kay Kare" writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <974886...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Put cake cases in patty tins.
>>>>
>>>> Umm. Does this translate to put paper cupcake thingies in the muffin
>>>> tin? Can somebody tell me? How thick are these cakelets we're making?
>>>
>>>Smaller than muffins. Twelve of them fit in one patty tin which goes on
>>>a shelf of a standard size oven. About the size of... (quickly runs
>through
>>>things that size and dismisses many of them as not available in the US,
>>>including mince pies)... satsumas.
>>
>>Do you mean tangerines or plums?
>
>Satsumas are akin to tangerines and clementines, and are a traditional
>British Christmas thing, to boot.
Oh. "Satsuma" here is attached to tangerines, and to plums -- I
have a Satsuma plum in my yard -- and I saw a seed catalog once
with "Satsuma" attached to a whole raft of things: radishes, for
one.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Mary Kay Kare
> In article <kare-22110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
> ka...@sirius.com "Mary Kay Kare" writes:
>
> > In article <974886...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > > Put cake cases in patty tins.
> >
> > Umm. Does this translate to put paper cupcake thingies in the muffin
> > tin? Can somebody tell me? How thick are these cakelets we're making?
>
> Smaller than muffins. Twelve of them fit in one patty tin which goes on
> a shelf of a standard size oven. About the size of... (quickly runs through
> things that size and dismisses many of them as not available in the US,
> including mince pies)... satsumas.
>
Ah. I was translating patty tin as something else. I think I got it now.
Keith F. Lynch
Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't know if you've noticed this, Keith, but you never actually
> *did* direct your charity in this case.
I asked him how much he needed, and I asked him for his street address
so I'd know where to send it. He never answered either question.
Instead he told me to FOAD.
Obviously, this is entirely my fault, and proves I am an evil and
uncharitable person.
Can we let this thread die yet?
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected
addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP.
Marilee J. Layman
>In article <kare-22110...@c797629-a.plstn1.sfba.home.com>
> ka...@sirius.com "Mary Kay Kare" writes:
>
>> In article <974886...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> > Put cake cases in patty tins.
>>
>> Umm. Does this translate to put paper cupcake thingies in the muffin
>> tin? Can somebody tell me? How thick are these cakelets we're making?
>
>Smaller than muffins. Twelve of them fit in one patty tin which goes on
>a shelf of a standard size oven. About the size of... (quickly runs through
>things that size and dismisses many of them as not available in the US,
>including mince pies)... satsumas.
I have a standard size oven, and a standard 12-cup muffin tin fits in
fine.
--
Marilee J. Layman The Other*Worlds*Cafe
HOSTE...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group.
AOL Keyword: OWC http://www.webmoose.com/owc
Thomas Womack
> It's worth considering that there are also lots of meals you can make
> enough for five people from fresh ingredients and then freeze in single
> portions.
This is advice I consistently get when complaining egocentrically about the
irritations of cooking for one. It does require quite a large freezer,
though, particularly since really you want to make large batches of each of
five things to avoid "on Monday, spaghetti bolognese. On Tuesday, bolognese
with spaghetti. On Wednesday, boiled beans with bolognese sauce. On
Thursday, pasta spirals with bolognese sauce. On Friday, bolognese sauce
with mashed potato on top".
The shared houses I've been in have tended to have the tiny freezer cabinet
of a rather small fridge shared among four people; not what I'd do were I a
landlord, but I think the position I'd take on comfort and accessories would
make me a pleasant but bankrupt landlord.
Tom
Vicki Rosenzweig
-0000:
>"Jo Walton" <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
>> It's worth considering that there are also lots of meals you can make
>> enough for five people from fresh ingredients and then freeze in single
>> portions.
>
>This is advice I consistently get when complaining egocentrically about the
>irritations of cooking for one. It does require quite a large freezer,
>though, particularly since really you want to make large batches of each of
>five things to avoid "on Monday, spaghetti bolognese. On Tuesday, bolognese
>with spaghetti. On Wednesday, boiled beans with bolognese sauce. On
>Thursday, pasta spirals with bolognese sauce. On Friday, bolognese sauce
>with mashed potato on top".
The compromise is to freeze, say, a bunch of bolognese sauce and do
"On Monday the 1st, spaghetti bolognese. On Tuesday, pizza. On Wednesday,
cheese sandwiches...on the ninth, spaghetti bolognese,..."
Even if you don't wind up with home-cooked stuff every night, you're
still getting good home-cooked food some of the time. It's like making
and freezing pesto: you don't then eat pasta with pesto for two weeks
solid, you eat it on and off for a few months.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>In article <3a1c32c7...@enews.newsguy.com>
> rit...@cruzio.com "Lucy Kemnitzer" writes:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:47:16 GMT, J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk (Jo
>> Walton) wrote:
>>
>> >Smaller than muffins. Twelve of them fit in one patty tin which goes on
>> >a shelf of a standard size oven. About the size of... (quickly runs through
>> >things that size and dismisses many of them as not available in the US,
>> >including mince pies)... satsumas.
>>
>> Do you mean tangerines or plums?
>
>Tangerines. There exist such a thing as satsuma _plums_?
>
>There's glory for you.
>
>Cakelets are - what do you want me to do, go in the kitchen with a ruler
>and measure the patty tins? - about 2.5-3 inches in diameter at the top.
Yep, that's a muffin (or cupcake) tin.
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
My kitchen scale currently resides in my workroom. I have a lovely
little electronic scale for the silver, legal for trade, but I use the
kitchen scale to weigh for postage.
Susana Serras Pereira
"Mike Kozlowski" <m...@klio.org> wrote in message
news:h59fv8...@muse.klio.org...
> In article <dg8m1t8kr2m05amlk...@4ax.com>,
> Vicki Rosenzweig <v...@redbird.org> wrote:
> >Quoth m...@klio.org (Mike Kozlowski) on Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:43:19 -0600:
>
> >>As a general cooking question, is there some kind of easy substitute for
> >>lemon rind? It seems like such a wild waste of a lemon to buy it just for
> >>the outside, and then throw it away.
> >>
> >
> >There are plenty of uses for lemon juice, though: cooking of
> >all sorts, lemonade, or in tea.
>
> Yeah. But the thing about cooking is, I tend to do it about once every,
> oh, three months or so; so I don't really keep around all these
> "ingredients" because they'd go bad -- I buy things to make whatever
> particular recipe I've decided to make, and then whatever's left over sits
> and rots until I finally throw it away. Which bugs me, so I tend to only
> make recipes that use up whole units of whatever perishables they require.
>
> The worst is when I feel the urge to make cookies, because they only
> require a bit of milk and a couple of eggs, so I end up throwing away
> bunches of both.
You could squeeze the lemon and pour the juice into ice-cube molds,
so you could have lemonade when you felt like it, or lemon juice
for cooking already squeezed. I do this often with all kinds of
fruits, not because I cook infrequently but because I have a big
juicer and a little kitchen, and that way I can make mess-free
fruit milkshakes, and blackberry shakes after their all too short
season is over.
And that way, you could still fill up the kitchen with the luscious
smell of lemon zest, which is one of the best rewards of cooking.
Susana, not able to smell much of anything at the
moment, due to yet another bout of flu
Susana Serras Pereira
be a bit tired of thinking about his teeth, hoping the threading
will keep)
"Vlatko Juric-Kokic" <vlatko.ju...@zg.tel.hr> wrote in message
news:5mgk1tk72jg15honc...@news.tel.hr...
> On 21 Nov 2000 08:47:24 GMT, gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (David
> Goldfarb) wrote:
>
> >In article <8vdbc8$inm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
> >Katie Schwarz <k...@socrates.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Could you tell me more about this bread?
> >>
> >>The cookbook said:
<snip recipe>
> >>
> >>This was very sweet, like a lemon muffin. Is this inauthentic? We'll
> >>just have to do it over again correctly, then, won't we.
That looks like "pão de leite" (milk bread), but more lemony than is
usual. Pão de leite is cafe-food, not typical homemade fare. It's
a favorite of little kids, because it's sweet and has no discernible
crust, and it's used for sandwiches.
So no, it wouldn't be inauthentic, but it's certainly not traditional,
and it's probably an adaptation of a French recipe: a lot of cafe-food
is, especially the pastries.
> >
> >Yes, what she said. Do please send along those recipes.
>
> And send them *here*.
Ok, I'll do that, just as soon as I am back home with my recipe-books.
At the moment, I'm being nursed and spoiled back to health by my mother,
whose serious doubts about computer-use as relaxation I finally managed
to overcome just now.
Oh, but I can give you the recipe for the cake I made this afternoon,
I can make it with my eyes closed. It's a *very* easy and quick recipe
which I see downthread someone was looking for, and it never ever goes
wrong. Aside from the eggs (3), nothing in it spoils for months.
It's one of my favorite startling ingredient recipes (along with Mayo-
chocolate cake), and it looks really yucky as you make it, and needs
no electric beater, so it's perfect for cooking with people in the
kitchen.
It's authentically Andaluzian, I've had something like it in Granada,
but I think I got the recipe from a British cookbook. So I guess that
makes it authentically well-traveled.
----Magical Mystical *Addictive* Moscatel cake from Al-Andaluz----
Stuff:
-170gr (6oz) flour
-2tsp baking powder
-1/2 tsp salt
-200ml (7 fluid oz) olive oil, extra virgin, low acid
-170 gr (6 oz) sugar, caster or extra-fine is best, but not compulsory
-3 eggs
-8oz (more like ten) Moscatel (de Valencia, originally, but I use
Portuguese -- Favaios, and any generous wine will do, a dry white
port is nice, so is half rum, half brandy, though very different)
-oil, shortening or margarine, for greasing the pan.
-parchment or other greaseproof paper for lining the pan
-the pan, any small pan (I use an eight " square) the important thing
is it should be fairly shallow, not a loaf pan.
-Two mixing bowls, medium.
-One whisk.
-Skewer, chopstick or knitting needle.
-More sugar.
-An oven, preheated to 180 C (300 F).
Directions:
Grease pan, then line with parchment.
Dump flour, baking powder and salt into bowl, mix vigorously with
whisk.
In another bowl, whisk together the olive oil, sugar and eggs. This
will look truly nasty and slimy and green. Fold in the flour until you
have a fairly smooth batter.
Pour into pan, bake 35 minutes, check by pressing thumb lightly to see
if it springs back, decide test is not providing sufficient data, prick
with toothpick, watch it come out all slimy, leave in for 10 more
minutes, then keep checking until toothpick comes out dry.
As soon as its out of the oven, spike it with a skewer (or a chopstick,
or a knitting needle), then pour on the moscatel slowly. Breathe in the
vapors at your own risk. Leave cake to cool in the pan, pop out onto
dish, sprinkle with more sugar to make it shimmery, slice, serve.
Grapes, moscatel if you can get them, are nice on the side.
The rum variation goes nicely with apple slices, lightly sautéed in
butter with a bit of cinnamon and a splash of rum.
Total time, two hours, actual cooking and preparing time, twenty
minutes. And a velvety crumble and an unidentifiable soft perfume.
Susana, typing with sugary fingers, but supposing voice-
recognition would not be helpful for posting and
eating, it would come out li-scrunch-ke yummmthis
Thomas Womack
> You could squeeze the lemon and pour the juice into ice-cube molds,
> so you could have lemonade when you felt like it, or lemon juice
> for cooking already squeezed. I do this often with all kinds of
> fruits, not because I cook infrequently but because I have a big
> juicer and a little kitchen, and that way I can make mess-free
> fruit milkshakes, and blackberry shakes after their all too short
> season is over.
I vigorously envy you your co-ordination, if you can describe something
involving pouring perfectly purple blackberry juice into ice-cube molds as
"mess-free" ...
I have enough trouble just ensuring that ice cubes turn out as ice cubes,
rather than as thin layer of ice adding to the Glacier at the Bottom of the
Freezer Compartment.
Tom