MT VOID, 10/02/20 -- Vol. 39, No. 14, Whole Number 2139

[evelynchim...@gmail.com]

THE MT VOID
Mt. Holz Science Fiction Society
10/02/20 -- Vol. 39, No. 14, Whole Number 2139

Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mle...@optonline.net
Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, ele...@optonline.net
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Topics:
The Speckled Clue (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON and the MT VOID (letter
of comment by Guy Lillian)
Translation (letter of comment by Gary Labowitz)
This Week's Reading (THE INVISIBLE LIFE OF ADDIE LARUE)
(book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

===================================================================

TOPIC: The Speckled Clue (comments by Mark R. Leeper)

Mark Leeper's Journal. November 19, 1999

Frequently the sacred cows of our society do not bear close
scrutiny, particularly in works of art. In art the same criteria
we apply to newer works of art if applied to the classics would
show them to be flawed in the same way. There are two film
versions of NOSFERATU. One is a classic of German cinema directed
by F. W. Murnau in 1922, one is a nearly identical remake made
almost as a silent film in 1979. The former is one of the most
chilling films ever made. The latter is and intentionally close
recreation using almost all of the same techniques and style is
ponderous and dull. The only major difference is that the remake
is in color. But watching it one knows it could have been made
with modern techniques so you are less likely to be impressed.
When you see a silent film you make allowances for its age. The
difference is not that the first is done so much better but that
one knows it is not a classic so one can be critical in the way one
would not be with the original. (Or one should. I do not know
what a young audience would make of the original NOSFERATU.)

I am listening to a radio adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's
story "The Speckled Band." By the way, SPOILER WARNING: IF YOU
HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE STORY AND DON'T KNOW THE ENDING
AND DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE END, GO AWAY. I would be spoiling it
for you. Anyway this was what Doyle himself considered to be one
of his very best Sherlock Holmes stories. One of his best, mind
you. And most of his fans agree. If you remember Holmes's client
tells him about a woman who had spent a night alone in a particular
room. In the middle of the night the woman had screamed, staggered
from her room, gasped cryptically "the speckled band," and died.
The whole story is about Holmes trying to figure out the meaning of
these last words. These days most of us know that the murder
weapon is and title refers to a deadly swamp adder.

Now this is a classic, but it occurs to me that this story is
really a prime example of what is frequently called "the idiot
plot." That is a story where if one person did the logical thing,
the whole plot would fall apart. The plot works only because the
people are behaving like idiots. They are unrealistically doing it
as well. Now I am not going to try to second-guess the great
Sherlock Holmes. I will assume it was a brilliant piece of
deduction to figure out that the clues pointed to the murder weapon
being a deadly reptile. Even the clue that there was an indiscrete
saucer of milk left hanging around. How that points to swamp adder
I have no idea, because adders, being reptiles, are not partial to
dairy products. There are few swamps where any self-respecting
adder would get a taste for milk. But what is really foolish in
the plotting is the behavior of the victim. What kind of person
would feel herself dying, find a sympathetic sister, and say
something stupid like "the speckled band." And people in the story
think the words mean a speckled band of gypsies. Her last words
are poetic. They are picturesque language. But under the
circumstances it really is not the way the woman would express
herself. Does it not only seem more natural and at the same time
more intelligent for her to yell in the loudest voice she can
muster, "SNAKE!!"? [-mrl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON and the MT VOID (letter of
comment by Guy Lillian)

In response to the MT VOID in general and Mark's comments on
CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON in the 09/18/20 issue of the MT VOID
in particular, Guy Lillian writes in ZINE DUMP #50:

Every week a new edition of MT Void appears in subscribers'
inboxes, and I strongly, strongly recommend readers join their
number. The Leepers are excellent writers with broad interests
within the field, and fill their zine with entertaining and
readable--and varied--content. In this particular issue from late
September, for instance, Mark mulls THE CREATURE FROM THE BLACK
LAGOON and Evelyn visits Jean Cocteau's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST. Both
films strike vivid memories for me. I was terrified of the Black
Lagoon trailer as a whelp, awed by its 3-D effects when I finally
viewed it in its intended form, amused when it inspired THE SHAPE
OF WATER, an Oscar-winning film. I first saw BELLE ET BETE at the
1976 Rivercon/DeepSouthCon, one of fandom's great events for me (I
mean, Muhammed Ali was at the hotel). The lettercol looks back at
a previous topic, Infomercials, which issue also covered this
year's NASFiC and THE AFRICAN QUEEN (the actual boat is on view in
the Florida Keys, and can be rented out). A contributor's long
review of the TV series DARK graces an issue from August; Mark
talked about kosher food earlier that month. What's next?
Subscribe and we'll both know! [-gl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: Translation (letter of comment by Gary Labowitz)

In response to various comments on translation in the 09/25/20
issue of the MT VOID, Gary Labowitz writes:

When I worked the IBM exhibit at the 1964 World's Fair in New York
we had a display on "Mechanical Translation" which was a big deal
back then. It was computerized to do word (and I think some
phrases) lookup in dictionaries and produce a "translation." The
reports we got was that a sample translation, from Russian, no
less, was an input of "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is
weak" came out as "The vodka is good, but the meat is spoiled." I
doubt this was true, but we handed it out anyway.

One of my favorite jokes (which my wife will confirm that I have
told ad nauseam) goes as follows:

A British man is touring the USA by car. He is going through
Nebraska when he sees a local at a fence around a huge farm of corn
plants as far as he could see. He pulls over and asks the farmer
there, "What on earth do you do with all this corn?" The farmer
answers, "Well, we eat what we can, and what we can't, we can."
The Brit laughs, with a comment of "very good!" and gets back into
his car and drives off. When he returns to England he is telling a
group of his friends about his trip. He explains, "At one point I
stopped and asked a farmer there, "What do you do with these vast
quantities of corn? He gave me a most humourous reply." The
groups presses him with, "Oh, do tell us Clarence ... and "Yes,
do." and so forth. "Ah," Clarence says, "he replied to my question
by saying, "We eat what we're able, and what we're not, we put up
in tins." They all chuckle at this.

It's a clear case of mistranslation which in this case is a valid
translation but misses the "flavor" of the reply.

I could never figure out why they found any of this exchange
amusing. [-gl]

===================================================================

TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

THE INVISIBLE LIFE OF ADDIE LARUE by V. E. Schwab (Tor, ISBN 978-0-
765-38756-1) is invisible because Addie has sold her soul for
freedom. But she discovers to her dismay that this freedom seems
to be more "freedom from" than "freedom to"--she leaves no trace
behind, not even memory.

The basic idea seems to be the same as a novel (novella? I seem to
think it was half of an Ace Double) in which the main character is
so non-descript that people simply don't see him. If he grabs
someone by the arm, they will see his hand and follow his arm up to
where they do see him, but as soon as he lets go, he fades from
their sight (and memory). (I don't think it is A GIFT FROM EARTH
by Larry Niven, which has a very similar idea.) Addie has to learn
to negotiate her way through life with this handicap, so though the
book is fantasy, it also has some of the feel of science fiction,
taking one premise and then examining all the ramifications of it.
As such, it has appeal for both fantasy and science fiction fans.
[-ecl]

===================================================================

Mark Leeper
mle...@optonline.net


A saleslady holds up an ugly dress and says,
'This looks much better on.' On what? On fire?
--Rita Rudner

[Paul Dormer]

In article <d580ef9d-35ba-4f76...@googlegroups.com>,

evelynchim...@gmail.com () wrote:

>
> It's a clear case of mistranslation which in this case is a valid
> translation but misses the "flavor" of the reply.

There are lots of stories like that. There's that line in Pratchett
where one of the witches tells her favourite joke, "Give me an alligator
sandwich as fast as possible." (For those that don't know the line, they
can work out what it was supposed to be.)

And I'm also reminded of the street clown interviewed in Mayhew's London
Labour and the London Poor. His favourite joke:

Why is Rome like a candle wick?

For it is in the middle of Greece/grease.

Despite prompting by Mayhew, he insisted that was the correct line.

I remember a friend of my sister's back in the seventies saying she was
trying to tell a joke when she was on holiday. It was a joke to do with
the Last Supper and Chinese take-away food. The punch line was Judas's
carryout, a carryout being a take-away food place and in her northern
accent it did sound like Judas Iscariot.

Trouble was, she was trying to tell the joke in French.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <memo.20201004...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,

Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <d580ef9d-35ba-4f76...@googlegroups.com>,
>evelynchim...@gmail.com () wrote:
>
>>
>> It's a clear case of mistranslation which in this case is a valid
>> translation but misses the "flavor" of the reply.
>
>There are lots of stories like that. There's that line in Pratchett
>where one of the witches tells her favourite joke, "Give me an alligator
>sandwich as fast as possible." (For those that don't know the line, they
>can work out what it was supposed to be.)

Well, I can't. Is it because I'm a Yank and frequently don't get
British humo[u]r?

Or is it because the alligator is still alive and it's a race to
see who will eat, and who will be eaten?

>And I'm also reminded of the street clown interviewed in Mayhew's London
>Labour and the London Poor. His favourite joke:
>
>Why is Rome like a candle wick?
>
>For it is in the middle of Greece/grease.
>
>Despite prompting by Mayhew, he insisted that was the correct line.

Hm. In Rome's heyday, Greece was in the middle of the Roman
Empire.

So what was the correct line (vide supra, Yank) ?

>
>I remember a friend of my sister's back in the seventies saying she was
>trying to tell a joke when she was on holiday. It was a joke to do with
>the Last Supper and Chinese take-away food. The punch line was Judas's
>carryout, a carryout being a take-away food place and in her northern
>accent it did sound like Judas Iscariot.
>
>Trouble was, she was trying to tell the joke in French.

Traduttore, tradittore.

(Italian proverb: a translator is a traitor.)

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

[garabik-ne...@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk]

ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am listening to a radio adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's
> story "The Speckled Band." By the way, SPOILER WARNING: IF YOU
> HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE STORY AND DON'T KNOW THE ENDING
> AND DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE END, GO AWAY. I would be spoiling it
> for you. Anyway this was what Doyle himself considered to be one
> of his very best Sherlock Holmes stories. One of his best, mind
> you. And most of his fans agree. If you remember Holmes's client
> tells him about a woman who had spent a night alone in a particular
> room. In the middle of the night the woman had screamed, staggered
> from her room, gasped cryptically "the speckled band," and died.
> The whole story is about Holmes trying to figure out the meaning of
> these last words. These days most of us know that the murder
> weapon is and title refers to a deadly swamp adder.
>

> How that points to swamp adder I have no idea, because adders, being reptiles, are not partial to
> dairy products.


> There are few swamps where any self-respecting
> adder would get a taste for milk.

It was (and still is) widely believed that snakes like milk. Was it
already known to be a myth at that time?

> But what is really foolish in
> the plotting is the behavior of the victim. What kind of person
> would feel herself dying, find a sympathetic sister, and say
> something stupid like "the speckled band." And people in the story
> think the words mean a speckled band of gypsies.

That's quite untranslatable, because "band" as the "group of people" and
"band" as the "thin long piece of cloth" are usually two different
words.
In the Slovak translation, the "cloth" meaning has been selected by the
translator, and people in the story considered multicolo(u)red headbands
the gypsies usually wear to point out to the gypsies.


ObSF: While flipping through TV channels yesterday, I watched a few
minutes of Golden Eye, dubbed into Slovak. They talked about an
Electromagnetic pulse, and something to the effect that "in its path it
destroys everything by the mean of electronic equipment". Now, in
Slovak, it is a matter of putting the noun phrase into instrumental, so
the intended sentence is not *that* syntactically different, but
still... another example of glaring incompetence in translation.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabík http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!

[Paul Dormer]

In article <qHoy0...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>
> >
> >There are lots of stories like that. There's that line in Pratchett
> >where one of the witches tells her favourite joke, "Give me an
alligator
> >sandwich as fast as possible." (For those that don't know the line,
they
> >can work out what it was supposed to be.)
>
> Well, I can't. Is it because I'm a Yank and frequently don't get
> British humo[u]r?
>
> Or is it because the alligator is still alive and it's a race to
> see who will eat, and who will be eaten?

The original line is, "Give me an alligator sandwich and make it snappy."

>

> >
> >Why is Rome like a candle wick?
> >
> >For it is in the middle of Greece/grease.
> >
> >Despite prompting by Mayhew, he insisted that was the correct line.
>
> Hm. In Rome's heyday, Greece was in the middle of the Roman
> Empire.
>
> So what was the correct line (vide supra, Yank) ?

Well, I guess it was something like, "Why is Athens like a candle wick?".

I must admit I've never read Mayhem, although I have an abridged version
sitting on my to be read pile (purchased at the Museum of London), but I
saw a TV documentary about it a few years ago introduced by Jonathan
Miller, with dramatised extracts, including the street clown, a most
melancholy fellow, apparently.

And there was the pure collector, a sixty-something widow who collected
buckets of dog shit to sell to the tanneries in London. Sixpence a
bucket, she could most days get enough to buy a crust of bread. It was
better than going to the workhouse.

[Gary McGath]

On 10/5/20 4:19 AM, garabik-ne...@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
>> But what is really foolish in
>> the plotting is the behavior of the victim. What kind of person
>> would feel herself dying, find a sympathetic sister, and say
>> something stupid like "the speckled band." And people in the story
>> think the words mean a speckled band of gypsies.
> That's quite untranslatable, because "band" as the "group of people" and
> "band" as the "thin long piece of cloth" are usually two different
> words.
> In the Slovak translation, the "cloth" meaning has been selected by the
> translator, and people in the story considered multicolo(u)red headbands
> the gypsies usually wear to point out to the gypsies.

Surely at some time or other, a musically inclined group of mystery
writers must have dubbed themselves "the Speckled Band."

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
The Magic Battery: A tale of magic and change in Reformation Germany
https://garymcgath.com/TMB

[Paul Dormer]

In article <rleuj8$lje$1...@dont-email.me>, ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com

(Gary McGath) wrote:

>
> Surely at some time or other, a musically inclined group of mystery
> writers must have dubbed themselves "the Speckled Band."

Reminds me of a skit on a radio comedy show back in the seventies. There
was a big band, a sort of Glenn Miller tribute act as we'd now say, led
by Syd Lawrence.

Watson: Syd Lawrence has phoned to say that someone has splatter his
orchestra with paint.

Holmes: It's the speckled band again.

(Why I remember this stuff after nearly fifty years, I don't know.)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <memo.20201005...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,

Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>
>And there was the pure collector, a sixty-something widow who collected
>buckets of dog shit to sell to the tanneries in London. Sixpence a
>bucket, she could most days get enough to buy a crust of bread. It was
>better than going to the workhouse.

Yes. I've just finished reading _The Ghost Map_ by Steven
Johnson, about the great cholera epidemic of London in 1854. It
begins by describing the horribly insanitary situation,
including the hordes of people who made their livings by
collecting various kinds of garbage, including "pure" (what cynic
gave it that name, I've no idea). Well worth reading.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <rleuj8$lje$1...@dont-email.me>,

Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>On 10/5/20 4:19 AM, garabik-ne...@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
>>> But what is really foolish in
>>> the plotting is the behavior of the victim. What kind of person
>>> would feel herself dying, find a sympathetic sister, and say
>>> something stupid like "the speckled band." And people in the story
>>> think the words mean a speckled band of gypsies.
>> That's quite untranslatable, because "band" as the "group of people" and
>> "band" as the "thin long piece of cloth" are usually two different
>> words.
>> In the Slovak translation, the "cloth" meaning has been selected by the
>> translator, and people in the story considered multicolo(u)red headbands
>> the gypsies usually wear to point out to the gypsies.
>
>Surely at some time or other, a musically inclined group of mystery
>writers must have dubbed themselves "the Speckled Band."
>

I wouldn't know, but I have noted that the Mystery Writers of
America has this motto on their letterhead: "Crime doesn't pay
... enough."

[Tim Illingworth]

On 10/5/2020 7:04 AM, Gary McGath wrote:
> Surely at some time or other, a musically inclined group of mystery
> writers must have dubbed themselves "the Speckled Band."
>

I don't know about musically inclined, but the Boston MA branch of the
Baker Street Irregulars is the Speckled Band of Boston.

https://fourthgarrideb.com/2015/07/10/the-speckled-band-of-boston-celebrates-75th-anniversary/

Tim

[Paul Dormer]

In article <qHoy0...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>

> So what was the correct line (vide supra, Yank) ?
> >

Incidentally, I've just remembered another case of someone telling a joke
without understanding it, almost certainly apocryphal in this case.

Back in the seventies during a political crisis, the prime minister,
James Callaghan was pictured in a paper and the caption said something
along the lines of he'd appeared like Moses to make a pronouncement.

Margaret Thatcher, then leader of the opposition, made a speech that
ended, "All I can say to Moses is 'Keep taking the tablets'".

It is alleged that when her speech-writer presented the speech to her,
she wanted to change the last line to "Keep taking the pills", which she
thought sounded better.

(Now, I assume that it is universal that "Keep taking the tablets" is the
supposed stock response of any doctor to a patient. And everyone knows
that in the Bible, Moses appeared carrying tablets of stone giving the
ten commandments.)

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Mon, 05 Oct 2020 11:44:00 GMT, p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer)
wrote:

Sounds like 'Hello, Cheeky'



--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Paul Dormer]

In article <XnsAC4DC17C98...@144.76.35.198>,
nots...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd,John) wrote:

>
> Sounds like 'Hello, Cheeky'

I think it was.

[Scott Dorsey]

ele...@optonline.net <evelynchim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are two film
>versions of NOSFERATU. One is a classic of German cinema directed
>by F. W. Murnau in 1922, one is a nearly identical remake made
>almost as a silent film in 1979. The former is one of the most
>chilling films ever made. The latter is and intentionally close
>recreation using almost all of the same techniques and style is
>ponderous and dull. The only major difference is that the remake
>is in color. But watching it one knows it could have been made
>with modern techniques so you are less likely to be impressed.
>When you see a silent film you make allowances for its age. The
>difference is not that the first is done so much better but that
>one knows it is not a classic so one can be critical in the way one
>would not be with the original. (Or one should. I do not know
>what a young audience would make of the original NOSFERATU.)

With a silent film, the movie itself is only half of the presentation.
The musical score has a whole lot to do with how the movie comes across,
for one thing. Additionally, when these films were first presented they
were usually projected at varying speeds depending on the projectionist.
By the time Nosferatu was made, constant speed changes during the
presentation no longer existed, but there is still a great argument today
over how the film should be run.

If you run the film at 24 fps (modern sound speed) it is clearly much too
fast. If you run it at 16 fps, the action speeds look realistic, but the
pacing is all wrong. The film is much better-paced at 20 fps in spite of
the slight speedup of motion.

I have never seen Nosferatu with the original orchestral score, although
that score was unearthed around 2015 and there is now an available
recording of it. The vast majority of performances of the film have been
done with improvised scores, and as is the nature of improvisations some
of them have been excellent and amazing and some have not. The difference
in effect is staggering.

I have run Nosferatu at Arisia a couple of times and it went over well with
the children, I think. A couple of things don't work anymore, for example
the overcranked scene of the coach rushing down to the village. Overcranking
today has become a signal to the audience of humor (thanks mostly to Mack
Sennett) and its use as any other effect has to be done very subtly or
comedy is invoked.

At Arisia we always ran the film too fast, because we didn't have the correct
belt and pulleys to run at 20 fps. I think we ran at 22 fps which is noticeably
a touch fast but not offensive.

Note also that the original prints were tinted; some scenes were subtly green,
others subtly red. Since none of the original prints that remained after the
legally-mandated destruction of the film are tinted, and we don't have timing
sheets for the film, nobody really knows what the tinting was like. So that
is another bit of the original presentation that is lost today.

And of course every version of Nosferatu today is kind of contrasty and
dirty, owing to being so many generations down from the original. The
original negative was burned and so what you're seeing today is much less
sharp with much poorer mid-tone greys than the original would have been,
although recent digital processing has improved that quite a bit.

I think a modern audience does very well with silent films if they are
well-presented, but they very seldom are. Often owing to the condition
of the original elements, they can't be.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Gary McGath]

On 10/11/20 1:29 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> I think a modern audience does very well with silent films if they are
> well-presented, but they very seldom are. Often owing to the condition
> of the original elements, they can't be.

The Kino restorations are good, but they can be expensive to show. Kino
can charge license fees because their restorations are copyrightable.

On one occasion Boskone showed a Kino version of a silent movie (I think
it was _The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari_, but I'm not sure) with my live
accompaniment. The fee amounted to more than $4 per person viewing, and
we all agreed that was too expensive to do again.