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MT VOID, 08/18/17 -- Vol. 36, No. 7, Whole Number 1976
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ele...@optonline.net
Aug 22, 2017, 8:51:19 AM8/22/17
to
THE MT VOID
Mt. Holz Science Fiction Society
08/18/17 -- Vol. 36, No. 7, Whole Number 1976
Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mle...@optonline.net
Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, ele...@optonline.net
All material is copyrighted by author unless otherwise noted.
All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
inclusion unless otherwise noted.
To subscribe, send mail to mtvoid-s...@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe, send mail to mtvoid-un...@yahoogroups.com
The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at
<http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.
Topics:
Hugo Award Winners 2017
Insurance Catch-17 (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
by Mark R. Leeper)
Hugo Awards Rules Changes (Again!)
HIDDEN FIGURES and Hugo Eligibility (comments
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
Relativity (comments by Gregory Frederick)
AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL (film review by Art Stadlin)
THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE by James Bryce (book review
by Gregory Frederick)
This Week's Reading (THE MARTIAN) (book and film comments
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
===================================================================
TOPIC: Hugo Award Winners 2017 and Worldcon 75
Best Novel: THE OBELISK GATE, by N. K. Jemisin
Best Novella: EVERY HEART A DOORWAY, by Seanan McGuire
Best Novelette: "The Tomato Thief", by Ursula Vernon
Best Short Story: "Seasons of Glass and Iron", by Amal El-Mohtar
Best Related Work: Words Are My Matter: Writings About Life and
Books, 2000-2016, by Ursula K. Le Guin
Best Graphic Story: Monstress, Volume 1: Awakening, written by
Marjorie Liu, illustrated by Sana Takeda
Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form: ARRIVAL
Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form: THE EXPANSE: "Leviathan
Wakes"
Best Editor, Short Form: Ellen Datlow
Best Editor, Long Form: Liz Gorinsky
Best Professional Artist: Julie Dillon
Best Semiprozine: Uncanny Magazine
Best Fanzine: Lady Business
Best Fan Writer: Abigail Nussbaum
Best Fan Artist: Elizabeth Leggett
Best Series: The Vorkosigan Saga, by Lois McMaster Bujold
The John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer: Ada Palmer
Video recordings were made of many of the events and panels at
Worldcon 75 in Helsinki and can be found at
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT_U7RhKFr-If4pusZY6g8A/videos>.
===================================================================
TOPIC: Insurance Catch-17 (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
You should not get insurance against reincarnation in New Jersey.
When you go to collect having past lives is automatically
considered a pre-existing condition. [-mrl]
===================================================================
TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
by Mark R. Leeper)
As is probably not very surprising, this year has a disappointing
one for the major studios. They continue to follow the same
pattern of making chapters in major franchises and spending more
and more on visual effects. Then they expect they can draw on a
big domestic and a big foreign market. It is easy to make a
chapter of a franchise. Most of the creative work can be done for
the producer. You write a story that is different but not too
different from the previous films in the franchise. You outsource
the creation of special effects. Maybe you even get the same
writers. But you need only limited creativity. People will come
for your visual effects, but only for so many chapters. But
franchises only draw on just so many people. Eventually you
probably have more people jumping off than jumping on.
China is a big market for American film for now, but they have
their own culture. They grew up with Sun Wukong, not Spider-Man.
Spider-Man does have exotic appeal in some markets like China, but
that goes only so far. Just like African Americans wanted to see
more of their own people, the Chinese probably want to see people
they can identify with on the screen.
Meanwhile Disney has bought the Marvel Comics set of franchises and
the Lucasfilm "Star Wars" films. (Well, George Lucas used to claim
that when he made the first "Star Wars" film he "wanted to make a
children's movie, to go the Disney route." It looks like he
finally did in a roundabout way.) These films are written in their
own universe. There is a "Star Wars" universe. There is also a
Godzilla "Monsterverse" universe.
The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
that, but I am not sure where. This is the strangest of film
franchises. What are they going to do? Will they turn Dracula and
Lawrence Talbot into crime fighters? And as their flagship film
they have made THE MUMMY as an action film starring Tom Cruise. It
sounds like they were out of good ideas before they even got
started. They intended to build a loyal audience for the their
series of films with a film that got a 15% critical approval on
Rotten Tomatoes. That is not a very good start. For those who
know the ratings systems the IMDB's aggregate rating was 5.7/10 and
Rotten Tomatoes saw it get a fast 16 percent. That is not the most
auspicious start.
The American film industry, which is the most powerful film
industry in the world, is having serious problems. Their budgets
keep growing and they need new international markets. A franchise
is just does not stay a good way to go. Once you have seen how the
Incredible Hulk smashes things seven different ways, do you really
have some desire to see the new film where he does it an eighth
way?
You have a younger generation who is living on their iPhones and
who do not have the patience to watch a comic book on the screen.
And you have an older generation who are getting too old to have
much interest in comic book films. And tying them together there
is a weak economy. It used to be that a special effects
extravaganza would bring in crowds. That has been going on since
the days of silent films or KING KONG (1933). But budgets today
are outpacing grosses. And the one thing that will really improve
a film, good writing, is getting harder for the studios to
recognize or harder to trust. Studios do not want to be too
demanding on audiences. The good writers are abandoning the
studios and going to video of one form or another.
So what is to be done? I love cinema too much to declare that it
is a dying medium. But the film industry has been ready for
several years for a big shake up. It may be that video or some new
medium will steal their audience. Cinema had a similar problem in
1969. Then Hollywood had to re-discover the small film. That year
the small film that led the way was EASY RIDER. I am hoping that
Hollywood will come to respect small films with good writing.
Otherwise we will have a bunch of empty theaters with passersby
watching video off their iPhones. [-mrl]
===================================================================
TOPIC: Hugo Awards Rules Changes (Again!) (comments by Evelyn
C. Leeper)
A summary of the changes; I did not try to explain the items that
failed.
C.1. Best Series (as amended by C.1.1. RATIFIED, 51-39.
C.2. December is Good Enough: RATIFIED. [You must be a member by
December 31 of the previous year to nominate.]
C.3. Two Years is Enough: RATIFIED (but includes grandfather clause
that effectively means it does not apply until 2019 Worldcon.
[Only members of the current or previous Worldcons are
eligible to nominate for the Hugo. This removes nominating
privileges for members of the succeeding Worldcon.]
C.4. Three Stage Voting (3SV): FAILED, 45-41.
C.5. Motion to Suspend E Pluribus Hugo for one year: FAILED
C.6. EPH+: FAILED
C.7. Defining North America: RATIFIED
C.8. Retrospective Improvement Pt. 1. RATIFIED [detail on Retro
Hugos]
C.9. Retrospective Improvement Pt. 2. RATIFIED [detail on Retro
Hugos]
C.10. Universal Suffrage. RATIFIED [A Worldcon cannot sell an
Attending Membership without voting rights, or any membership
with voting rights for less than a Supporting Membership.]
C.11. Young Adult Award. Blank award name and provision related to
it struck out of the proposal. The new award RATIFIED 65-27
and will be first presented (as the "Award for Best Young
Adult Book" without a further specific name) in 2018. Naming
the YA Award. "Lodestar Award for Best Young Adult Book"
PASSED and sent to 2018 for ratification. The new YA category
is not currently named "Lodestar." If this proposal is
ratified next year, future YA Awards will be called
"Lodestar.")
===================================================================
TOPIC: HIDDEN FIGURES and Hugo Eligibility (comments by Evelyn
C. Leeper)
The Hugo Administrators issued the following statement as part of
the Hugo Awards press release:
"The eligibility of HIDDEN FIGURES in this category was queried; it
was suggested that as "non-fiction", it belonged rather to Best
Related Work. We determined that this is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the first place, HIDDEN FIGURES is not a non-fictional
documentary, but a dramatised reconstruction of historical events,
as have been many other Best Dramatic Presentation finalists
through the years-most recently, two finalists for Short Form in
2014 were about the production of "Doctor Who", one of them
similarly a dramatised reconstruction of historical events (the
other briefly featuring this year 's Hugo Administrator in a crowd
scene).
In the second place, even if HIDDEN FIGURES had been a non-
fictional documentary, it would still have been eligible in this
category. A non-fiction finalist won the Hugo for Best Dramatic
Presentation in 1970 (the TV coverage of Apollo 11) and there was a
non-fiction finalist in Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form as
recently as 2012 (The Drink Tank 's Hugo acceptance speech).
We noticed some references to "the Apollo 13 exception", as if some
special allowance had been made in that and other cases. There was
and is no special allowance, just implementation of the rules as
they are written"
[In my opinion, they made the right decision for the wrong reason.
The description of eligibility is "Any theatrical feature or other
production, with a complete running time of more than 90 minutes,
in any medium of dramatized science fiction, fantasy or related
subjects ..." Space travel/exploration is clearly a related
subject. The whole purpose of amending the definition to include
related subjects was make films such as THE RIGHT STUFF, APOLLO 13,
and HIDDEN FIGURES explicitly eligible. -ecl]
===================================================================
TOPIC: Relativity (comments by Gregory Frederick)
As you probably know; Einstein became world famous in the early
1900's due to observations made by an astronomer during a solar
eclipse proving that light from a star was deflected by the
gravitational well of the Sun. This was only possible because you
can only see stars near the Sun's edge during a solar eclipse.
Astronomers in this country plan to repeat that type of observation
during the upcoming eclipse. They want to use the modern equipment
of today to get the best accuracy possible of this deflection. But
an even more extreme version of was studied recently by European
astronomers who observed this happening to three stars near the
immense gravity well of a black hole. The link to this recent
study on space.com is <https://tinyurl.com/void-eclipse-einstein>.
[-gf]
===================================================================
TOPIC: AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL (film review by Art Stadlin)
Yesterday we went to the movie house to see AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL:
TRUTH TO POWER. Let me start with the obvious: If you saw Al
Gore's first movie, and hated it, you won't like this one either.
If you liked the first movie, you may like this one better.
The production qualities, such as the beautiful outdoor shots in
Greenland, the camera angles, music, and so forth were very well
done. This is not some jerky-camera home movie.
The story is very easy to follow, with fewer graphs and charts than
I remember in the first movie. In some ways this is a movie as
much about Al Gore the man as it is about global warming and
climate change. There's Al Gore the Senator's son. Al Gore the
college kid. Al Gore the Congressman. Al Gore the Presidential
candidate. And Al Gore the climate activist.
It was interesting, I thought, that this movie is *not* overtly
political. It's much more about the reality of the impact of
global warming. Yet, politics creeps in. After all, climate
change is a political hot potato, regardless of what consensus
there is in scientific circles. A prime point of this movie is the
question, Why? Why so much push back on the data that the earth is
warming, and sea levels are rising?
As Gore points out, the victims worldwide are primarily the poor.
The poor have no big money to support their cause. Big money has
warped the political process in Washington.
I won't spoil anything that might surprise you. There was one
particular event during the W. Bush years that surprised me. And
then there's Trump. To those who deeply believe in the cause of
saving the planet, there is nothing flattering in this movie about
Bush and Trump. Enough said.
Al Gore is 71. (My wife looked it up.) I got the feeling this
movie could be his capstone or tribute for generations to remember
him by. Despite the Bush and Trump set-backs, the movie portrays
Gore as an even-tempered man-with-a-mission who takes each setback
as a challenge to do more than before for the cause.
As documentary-style movies go, I'd rate this one very high. [-as]
===================================================================
TOPIC: THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE by James Bryce (book review by Gregory
Frederick)
This book delves into the history of Germany and Italy from the
fall of the Western Roman Empire to the early 20th Century. The
author originally wrote this book in 1864 and it was reprinted with
corrections in 1906. Later reprintings occurred as recently as
1968. Therefore, the author's viewpoint is from the past. The
details of why Germany and Italy did not become nation states until
the late 1800's is examined. England, France and Spain were nation
states long before Germany and Italy gained this national status.
The Holy Roman Empire is responsible in large part for the late
emergence of Germany and Italy as nations. After the Roman Empire
in the West fell in the late 400's Rome was plagued by frequent
attacks by the Lombards. The Pope in Rome could not get any
military assistance from the Eastern Roman Empire also known as the
Byzantine Empire so he turned to Charlemagne, king of the Franks in
Germany for help. Charlemagne defeated the Lombards and was
crowned by the Pope as the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Holy
Roman Empire territory at the time of Charlemagne and for some
years after consisted roughly of present day Germany and the
northern part of present day Italy. This Holy Roman Empire existed
from 800 to 1806 but as time progressed its emperors eventually
lost real power over their territory as rebellions in Italy and
other parts of Germany kept them occupied. Also, the emperors were
chosen by a group of electors who tended to select weak rulers.
The electors were seeking more power and control of their own local
territories in Germany and preferred weaker candidates for the role
as emperor. The continual fracturing of the Empire and weakness of
the emperors allowed for the princes and dukes to divide Germany
and Italy into small domains that would not easily coalesce into a
nation state. Additionally, the Pope in Rome created his own papal
states. Interesting and valuable information about the formation
of modern day Europe is provided in this book but it is not an easy
read. The author uses some words from a bygone era and therefore
it takes a real effort to understand the text. [-gf]
===================================================================
TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
We recently watched THE MARTIAN and read THE MARTIAN by Andy Weir
(ISBN 978-0-553-41802-6) for our book-and-film group. While I have
commented before on the book several times now, I found interesting
some of the questions about the film from people who had not read
the book.
For example: Rich Purnell (who develops a new strategy for saving
Mark Watney). In the book, he is developed enough as a character
that we understand that he is on the autism spectrum. His behavior
in the film makes sense if you know this, but without foreknowledge
of it (or unless you are a good guesser), his character makes no
sense.
There was also some discussion of the ethnic backgrounds of the
characters. Venkat Kapoor (definitely an Indian name) became
Vincent Kapoor (and half Indian and half African, because he was
played by Chiwetel Ejiotor). Mindy Park was read by most people
(including Weir) as Korean, but definitely was not Korean in the
film. Weir himself says he never specified their ethnicities.
Annie Montrose is also considerably less strident in the film
version (probably because the filmmakers had to clean up the
language to get a PG-13). And a lot was omitted from the film: the
second dust storm (and indeed most of the journey), the loss of
communications, the equipping of the rovers, etc. The rover
(singular) in the film had no airlock, and instead of a second
rover, there seemed to be something more like a flatbed trailer.
The hab airlock is much larger than in the book, in which Watney
complained about how little dirt he could bring in at any one time,
and also described as the size of a phone booth. (How does Watney
even know what a phone booth is by the time THE MARTIAN takes
place.) His shovels are also larger, and the mission goes a few
days longer on Mars before they abort (for no reason I can tell).
The retrieval plays out differently, and the film adds a final
sequence taking place several years after the rest of the story.
[-ecl]
===================================================================
Mark Leeper
mle...@optonline.net
Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand,
water is water. And east is east and west is west and
if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce
they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.
Now you tell me what you know.
--Groucho Marx
Mt. Holz Science Fiction Society
08/18/17 -- Vol. 36, No. 7, Whole Number 1976
Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mle...@optonline.net
Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, ele...@optonline.net
All material is copyrighted by author unless otherwise noted.
All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
inclusion unless otherwise noted.
To subscribe, send mail to mtvoid-s...@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe, send mail to mtvoid-un...@yahoogroups.com
The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at
<http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.
Topics:
Hugo Award Winners 2017
Insurance Catch-17 (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
by Mark R. Leeper)
Hugo Awards Rules Changes (Again!)
HIDDEN FIGURES and Hugo Eligibility (comments
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
Relativity (comments by Gregory Frederick)
AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL (film review by Art Stadlin)
THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE by James Bryce (book review
by Gregory Frederick)
This Week's Reading (THE MARTIAN) (book and film comments
by Evelyn C. Leeper)
===================================================================
TOPIC: Hugo Award Winners 2017 and Worldcon 75
Best Novel: THE OBELISK GATE, by N. K. Jemisin
Best Novella: EVERY HEART A DOORWAY, by Seanan McGuire
Best Novelette: "The Tomato Thief", by Ursula Vernon
Best Short Story: "Seasons of Glass and Iron", by Amal El-Mohtar
Best Related Work: Words Are My Matter: Writings About Life and
Books, 2000-2016, by Ursula K. Le Guin
Best Graphic Story: Monstress, Volume 1: Awakening, written by
Marjorie Liu, illustrated by Sana Takeda
Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form: ARRIVAL
Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form: THE EXPANSE: "Leviathan
Wakes"
Best Editor, Short Form: Ellen Datlow
Best Editor, Long Form: Liz Gorinsky
Best Professional Artist: Julie Dillon
Best Semiprozine: Uncanny Magazine
Best Fanzine: Lady Business
Best Fan Writer: Abigail Nussbaum
Best Fan Artist: Elizabeth Leggett
Best Series: The Vorkosigan Saga, by Lois McMaster Bujold
The John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer: Ada Palmer
Video recordings were made of many of the events and panels at
Worldcon 75 in Helsinki and can be found at
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT_U7RhKFr-If4pusZY6g8A/videos>.
===================================================================
TOPIC: Insurance Catch-17 (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
You should not get insurance against reincarnation in New Jersey.
When you go to collect having past lives is automatically
considered a pre-existing condition. [-mrl]
===================================================================
TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
by Mark R. Leeper)
As is probably not very surprising, this year has a disappointing
one for the major studios. They continue to follow the same
pattern of making chapters in major franchises and spending more
and more on visual effects. Then they expect they can draw on a
big domestic and a big foreign market. It is easy to make a
chapter of a franchise. Most of the creative work can be done for
the producer. You write a story that is different but not too
different from the previous films in the franchise. You outsource
the creation of special effects. Maybe you even get the same
writers. But you need only limited creativity. People will come
for your visual effects, but only for so many chapters. But
franchises only draw on just so many people. Eventually you
probably have more people jumping off than jumping on.
China is a big market for American film for now, but they have
their own culture. They grew up with Sun Wukong, not Spider-Man.
Spider-Man does have exotic appeal in some markets like China, but
that goes only so far. Just like African Americans wanted to see
more of their own people, the Chinese probably want to see people
they can identify with on the screen.
Meanwhile Disney has bought the Marvel Comics set of franchises and
the Lucasfilm "Star Wars" films. (Well, George Lucas used to claim
that when he made the first "Star Wars" film he "wanted to make a
children's movie, to go the Disney route." It looks like he
finally did in a roundabout way.) These films are written in their
own universe. There is a "Star Wars" universe. There is also a
Godzilla "Monsterverse" universe.
The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
that, but I am not sure where. This is the strangest of film
franchises. What are they going to do? Will they turn Dracula and
Lawrence Talbot into crime fighters? And as their flagship film
they have made THE MUMMY as an action film starring Tom Cruise. It
sounds like they were out of good ideas before they even got
started. They intended to build a loyal audience for the their
series of films with a film that got a 15% critical approval on
Rotten Tomatoes. That is not a very good start. For those who
know the ratings systems the IMDB's aggregate rating was 5.7/10 and
Rotten Tomatoes saw it get a fast 16 percent. That is not the most
auspicious start.
The American film industry, which is the most powerful film
industry in the world, is having serious problems. Their budgets
keep growing and they need new international markets. A franchise
is just does not stay a good way to go. Once you have seen how the
Incredible Hulk smashes things seven different ways, do you really
have some desire to see the new film where he does it an eighth
way?
You have a younger generation who is living on their iPhones and
who do not have the patience to watch a comic book on the screen.
And you have an older generation who are getting too old to have
much interest in comic book films. And tying them together there
is a weak economy. It used to be that a special effects
extravaganza would bring in crowds. That has been going on since
the days of silent films or KING KONG (1933). But budgets today
are outpacing grosses. And the one thing that will really improve
a film, good writing, is getting harder for the studios to
recognize or harder to trust. Studios do not want to be too
demanding on audiences. The good writers are abandoning the
studios and going to video of one form or another.
So what is to be done? I love cinema too much to declare that it
is a dying medium. But the film industry has been ready for
several years for a big shake up. It may be that video or some new
medium will steal their audience. Cinema had a similar problem in
1969. Then Hollywood had to re-discover the small film. That year
the small film that led the way was EASY RIDER. I am hoping that
Hollywood will come to respect small films with good writing.
Otherwise we will have a bunch of empty theaters with passersby
watching video off their iPhones. [-mrl]
===================================================================
TOPIC: Hugo Awards Rules Changes (Again!) (comments by Evelyn
C. Leeper)
A summary of the changes; I did not try to explain the items that
failed.
C.1. Best Series (as amended by C.1.1. RATIFIED, 51-39.
C.2. December is Good Enough: RATIFIED. [You must be a member by
December 31 of the previous year to nominate.]
C.3. Two Years is Enough: RATIFIED (but includes grandfather clause
that effectively means it does not apply until 2019 Worldcon.
[Only members of the current or previous Worldcons are
eligible to nominate for the Hugo. This removes nominating
privileges for members of the succeeding Worldcon.]
C.4. Three Stage Voting (3SV): FAILED, 45-41.
C.5. Motion to Suspend E Pluribus Hugo for one year: FAILED
C.6. EPH+: FAILED
C.7. Defining North America: RATIFIED
C.8. Retrospective Improvement Pt. 1. RATIFIED [detail on Retro
Hugos]
C.9. Retrospective Improvement Pt. 2. RATIFIED [detail on Retro
Hugos]
C.10. Universal Suffrage. RATIFIED [A Worldcon cannot sell an
Attending Membership without voting rights, or any membership
with voting rights for less than a Supporting Membership.]
C.11. Young Adult Award. Blank award name and provision related to
it struck out of the proposal. The new award RATIFIED 65-27
and will be first presented (as the "Award for Best Young
Adult Book" without a further specific name) in 2018. Naming
the YA Award. "Lodestar Award for Best Young Adult Book"
PASSED and sent to 2018 for ratification. The new YA category
is not currently named "Lodestar." If this proposal is
ratified next year, future YA Awards will be called
"Lodestar.")
===================================================================
TOPIC: HIDDEN FIGURES and Hugo Eligibility (comments by Evelyn
C. Leeper)
The Hugo Administrators issued the following statement as part of
the Hugo Awards press release:
"The eligibility of HIDDEN FIGURES in this category was queried; it
was suggested that as "non-fiction", it belonged rather to Best
Related Work. We determined that this is, frankly, ridiculous.
In the first place, HIDDEN FIGURES is not a non-fictional
documentary, but a dramatised reconstruction of historical events,
as have been many other Best Dramatic Presentation finalists
through the years-most recently, two finalists for Short Form in
2014 were about the production of "Doctor Who", one of them
similarly a dramatised reconstruction of historical events (the
other briefly featuring this year 's Hugo Administrator in a crowd
scene).
In the second place, even if HIDDEN FIGURES had been a non-
fictional documentary, it would still have been eligible in this
category. A non-fiction finalist won the Hugo for Best Dramatic
Presentation in 1970 (the TV coverage of Apollo 11) and there was a
non-fiction finalist in Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form as
recently as 2012 (The Drink Tank 's Hugo acceptance speech).
We noticed some references to "the Apollo 13 exception", as if some
special allowance had been made in that and other cases. There was
and is no special allowance, just implementation of the rules as
they are written"
[In my opinion, they made the right decision for the wrong reason.
The description of eligibility is "Any theatrical feature or other
production, with a complete running time of more than 90 minutes,
in any medium of dramatized science fiction, fantasy or related
subjects ..." Space travel/exploration is clearly a related
subject. The whole purpose of amending the definition to include
related subjects was make films such as THE RIGHT STUFF, APOLLO 13,
and HIDDEN FIGURES explicitly eligible. -ecl]
===================================================================
TOPIC: Relativity (comments by Gregory Frederick)
As you probably know; Einstein became world famous in the early
1900's due to observations made by an astronomer during a solar
eclipse proving that light from a star was deflected by the
gravitational well of the Sun. This was only possible because you
can only see stars near the Sun's edge during a solar eclipse.
Astronomers in this country plan to repeat that type of observation
during the upcoming eclipse. They want to use the modern equipment
of today to get the best accuracy possible of this deflection. But
an even more extreme version of was studied recently by European
astronomers who observed this happening to three stars near the
immense gravity well of a black hole. The link to this recent
study on space.com is <https://tinyurl.com/void-eclipse-einstein>.
[-gf]
===================================================================
TOPIC: AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL (film review by Art Stadlin)
Yesterday we went to the movie house to see AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL:
TRUTH TO POWER. Let me start with the obvious: If you saw Al
Gore's first movie, and hated it, you won't like this one either.
If you liked the first movie, you may like this one better.
The production qualities, such as the beautiful outdoor shots in
Greenland, the camera angles, music, and so forth were very well
done. This is not some jerky-camera home movie.
The story is very easy to follow, with fewer graphs and charts than
I remember in the first movie. In some ways this is a movie as
much about Al Gore the man as it is about global warming and
climate change. There's Al Gore the Senator's son. Al Gore the
college kid. Al Gore the Congressman. Al Gore the Presidential
candidate. And Al Gore the climate activist.
It was interesting, I thought, that this movie is *not* overtly
political. It's much more about the reality of the impact of
global warming. Yet, politics creeps in. After all, climate
change is a political hot potato, regardless of what consensus
there is in scientific circles. A prime point of this movie is the
question, Why? Why so much push back on the data that the earth is
warming, and sea levels are rising?
As Gore points out, the victims worldwide are primarily the poor.
The poor have no big money to support their cause. Big money has
warped the political process in Washington.
I won't spoil anything that might surprise you. There was one
particular event during the W. Bush years that surprised me. And
then there's Trump. To those who deeply believe in the cause of
saving the planet, there is nothing flattering in this movie about
Bush and Trump. Enough said.
Al Gore is 71. (My wife looked it up.) I got the feeling this
movie could be his capstone or tribute for generations to remember
him by. Despite the Bush and Trump set-backs, the movie portrays
Gore as an even-tempered man-with-a-mission who takes each setback
as a challenge to do more than before for the cause.
As documentary-style movies go, I'd rate this one very high. [-as]
===================================================================
TOPIC: THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE by James Bryce (book review by Gregory
Frederick)
This book delves into the history of Germany and Italy from the
fall of the Western Roman Empire to the early 20th Century. The
author originally wrote this book in 1864 and it was reprinted with
corrections in 1906. Later reprintings occurred as recently as
1968. Therefore, the author's viewpoint is from the past. The
details of why Germany and Italy did not become nation states until
the late 1800's is examined. England, France and Spain were nation
states long before Germany and Italy gained this national status.
The Holy Roman Empire is responsible in large part for the late
emergence of Germany and Italy as nations. After the Roman Empire
in the West fell in the late 400's Rome was plagued by frequent
attacks by the Lombards. The Pope in Rome could not get any
military assistance from the Eastern Roman Empire also known as the
Byzantine Empire so he turned to Charlemagne, king of the Franks in
Germany for help. Charlemagne defeated the Lombards and was
crowned by the Pope as the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Holy
Roman Empire territory at the time of Charlemagne and for some
years after consisted roughly of present day Germany and the
northern part of present day Italy. This Holy Roman Empire existed
from 800 to 1806 but as time progressed its emperors eventually
lost real power over their territory as rebellions in Italy and
other parts of Germany kept them occupied. Also, the emperors were
chosen by a group of electors who tended to select weak rulers.
The electors were seeking more power and control of their own local
territories in Germany and preferred weaker candidates for the role
as emperor. The continual fracturing of the Empire and weakness of
the emperors allowed for the princes and dukes to divide Germany
and Italy into small domains that would not easily coalesce into a
nation state. Additionally, the Pope in Rome created his own papal
states. Interesting and valuable information about the formation
of modern day Europe is provided in this book but it is not an easy
read. The author uses some words from a bygone era and therefore
it takes a real effort to understand the text. [-gf]
===================================================================
TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
We recently watched THE MARTIAN and read THE MARTIAN by Andy Weir
(ISBN 978-0-553-41802-6) for our book-and-film group. While I have
commented before on the book several times now, I found interesting
some of the questions about the film from people who had not read
the book.
For example: Rich Purnell (who develops a new strategy for saving
Mark Watney). In the book, he is developed enough as a character
that we understand that he is on the autism spectrum. His behavior
in the film makes sense if you know this, but without foreknowledge
of it (or unless you are a good guesser), his character makes no
sense.
There was also some discussion of the ethnic backgrounds of the
characters. Venkat Kapoor (definitely an Indian name) became
Vincent Kapoor (and half Indian and half African, because he was
played by Chiwetel Ejiotor). Mindy Park was read by most people
(including Weir) as Korean, but definitely was not Korean in the
film. Weir himself says he never specified their ethnicities.
Annie Montrose is also considerably less strident in the film
version (probably because the filmmakers had to clean up the
language to get a PG-13). And a lot was omitted from the film: the
second dust storm (and indeed most of the journey), the loss of
communications, the equipping of the rovers, etc. The rover
(singular) in the film had no airlock, and instead of a second
rover, there seemed to be something more like a flatbed trailer.
The hab airlock is much larger than in the book, in which Watney
complained about how little dirt he could bring in at any one time,
and also described as the size of a phone booth. (How does Watney
even know what a phone booth is by the time THE MARTIAN takes
place.) His shovels are also larger, and the mission goes a few
days longer on Mars before they abort (for no reason I can tell).
The retrieval plays out differently, and the film adds a final
sequence taking place several years after the rest of the story.
[-ecl]
===================================================================
Mark Leeper
mle...@optonline.net
Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand,
water is water. And east is east and west is west and
if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce
they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.
Now you tell me what you know.
--Groucho Marx
Paul Dormer
Aug 22, 2017, 12:15:42 PM8/22/17
to
In article <0ba0be44-6cad-463a...@googlegroups.com>,
And for those of you who don't know what C.1.1 was, it changed
occurrences of "volume" in the text to "installment".
And for those of you who don't know what C.1.1 was, it changed
occurrences of "volume" in the text to "installment".
Kevrob
Aug 22, 2017, 12:39:35 PM8/22/17
to
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 8:51:19 AM UTC-4, ele...@optonline.net wrote:
> THE MT VOID
>
> TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
> by Mark R. Leeper)
.....
> The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
> 1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
> become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
> appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
> that, but I am not sure where.
DELL COMICS, after it split with Western Publishing, which
continued publishing what Dell had as "Gold Key," tried the
"monsters as super-hero" idea in the 1960s.
It did not go well.
[/understatement]
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula_(Dell_Comics)
http://www.toonopedia.com/dracdell.htm
They did FRANKENSTEIN (not to be confused with Dick Briefer's
wonderful work for PRIZE COMICS) and WEREWOLF.
Horrible, in the wrong way. Film studios, do not repeat this!
> ===================================================================
>
> TOPIC: AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL (film review by Art Stadlin)
>
> Yesterday we went to the movie house to see AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL:
> TRUTH TO POWER. Let me start with the obvious: If you saw Al
> Gore's first movie, and hated it, you won't like this one either.
> If you liked the first movie, you may like this one better.
>
The idea that the need to save the environment justifies statism
is the irritant among free marketers, though I know of social
conservatives of the James Watt variety who have the "use the
Earth up, we won't need it when Jesus comes back" mindset.
Gauchely quoting himself.....
Ever read "After Communism" by Robert Heilbroner?
The New Yorker, September 10, 1990 P. 91
[quote]
Socialism may not continue as an important force now that Communism is
finished. But another way of looking at socialism is as the society that
must emerge if humanity is to cope with the ecological burden that economic growth is placing on the environment.
[/quote]
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1990/09/10/after-communism
IOW, using environmentalism to sneak a planned economy back in after it
failed so massively. The watermelon strategy. Green on the outside...
Heilbroner was nor right wing nut.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Heilbroner
[quote]
Published in 1953, The Worldly Philosophers has sold nearly four million copies, making it the second-best-selling economics text of all time (the first being Paul Samuelson's Economics, a highly popular university textbook).[citation needed] The seventh edition of the book, published in 1999, included a new final chapter entitled "The End of Worldly Philosophy?", which included both a grim view on the current state of economics as well as a hopeful vision for a "reborn worldly philosophy" that incorporated social aspects of capitalism.
He also came up with a way of classifying economies, as either Traditional (primarily agriculturally based, perhaps subsistence economy), Command (centrally planned economy, often involving the state), Market (capitalism), or Mixed.
Though an outspoken socialist for nearly his entire career, Heilbroner famously wrote in a 1989 New Yorker article prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Less than 75 years after it officially began, the contest between capitalism and socialism is over: capitalism has won...Capitalism organizes the material affairs of humankind more satisfactorily than socialism.
[/quote]
He was someone who could see that the side he used to carry the banner for
had lost. He also knew what bolt hole the communists and fellow travelers
would make for: a coat of green over the red.
Now, this isn't to say they aren't authentic enviros, honestly concerned
about the future of the planet. But their are power-lusting statists
among them, so I reserve the right to be suspicious of them.
...........
Note: I accept that average temps are up, and I accept that human
activity probably is contributing to it. That doesn't change the fact
that, as the USSR was collapsing, statists of "the left" - for whatever
value of "left" we are talking about - reached for ecology as a life ring
to keep their control-freak fetishes afloat. Hence, the suspicion.
[/rant]
> We recently watched THE MARTIAN and read THE MARTIAN by Andy Weir
>.... (How does Watney
I saw movies with crank-style phones, and the ones with the
earpiece on a cable and the mike on the main part of the device.
Maybe Watney saw some old media with phone booths, or it just
survived as an idiom, like "the whole 9 yards?"
Kevin R
> THE MT VOID
>
> TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
> by Mark R. Leeper)
> The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
> 1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
> become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
> appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
> that, but I am not sure where.
continued publishing what Dell had as "Gold Key," tried the
"monsters as super-hero" idea in the 1960s.
It did not go well.
[/understatement]
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula_(Dell_Comics)
http://www.toonopedia.com/dracdell.htm
They did FRANKENSTEIN (not to be confused with Dick Briefer's
wonderful work for PRIZE COMICS) and WEREWOLF.
Horrible, in the wrong way. Film studios, do not repeat this!
> ===================================================================
>
> TOPIC: AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL (film review by Art Stadlin)
>
> Yesterday we went to the movie house to see AN INCONVENIENT SEQUEL:
> TRUTH TO POWER. Let me start with the obvious: If you saw Al
> Gore's first movie, and hated it, you won't like this one either.
> If you liked the first movie, you may like this one better.
>
is the irritant among free marketers, though I know of social
conservatives of the James Watt variety who have the "use the
Earth up, we won't need it when Jesus comes back" mindset.
Gauchely quoting himself.....
Ever read "After Communism" by Robert Heilbroner?
The New Yorker, September 10, 1990 P. 91
[quote]
Socialism may not continue as an important force now that Communism is
finished. But another way of looking at socialism is as the society that
must emerge if humanity is to cope with the ecological burden that economic growth is placing on the environment.
[/quote]
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1990/09/10/after-communism
IOW, using environmentalism to sneak a planned economy back in after it
failed so massively. The watermelon strategy. Green on the outside...
Heilbroner was nor right wing nut.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Heilbroner
[quote]
Published in 1953, The Worldly Philosophers has sold nearly four million copies, making it the second-best-selling economics text of all time (the first being Paul Samuelson's Economics, a highly popular university textbook).[citation needed] The seventh edition of the book, published in 1999, included a new final chapter entitled "The End of Worldly Philosophy?", which included both a grim view on the current state of economics as well as a hopeful vision for a "reborn worldly philosophy" that incorporated social aspects of capitalism.
He also came up with a way of classifying economies, as either Traditional (primarily agriculturally based, perhaps subsistence economy), Command (centrally planned economy, often involving the state), Market (capitalism), or Mixed.
Though an outspoken socialist for nearly his entire career, Heilbroner famously wrote in a 1989 New Yorker article prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Less than 75 years after it officially began, the contest between capitalism and socialism is over: capitalism has won...Capitalism organizes the material affairs of humankind more satisfactorily than socialism.
[/quote]
He was someone who could see that the side he used to carry the banner for
had lost. He also knew what bolt hole the communists and fellow travelers
would make for: a coat of green over the red.
Now, this isn't to say they aren't authentic enviros, honestly concerned
about the future of the planet. But their are power-lusting statists
among them, so I reserve the right to be suspicious of them.
...........
Note: I accept that average temps are up, and I accept that human
activity probably is contributing to it. That doesn't change the fact
that, as the USSR was collapsing, statists of "the left" - for whatever
value of "left" we are talking about - reached for ecology as a life ring
to keep their control-freak fetishes afloat. Hence, the suspicion.
[/rant]
> We recently watched THE MARTIAN and read THE MARTIAN by Andy Weir
> even know what a phone booth is by the time THE MARTIAN takes
> place.) His shovels are also larger, and the mission goes a few
> days longer on Mars before they abort (for no reason I can tell).
>
I'm old enough to remember phone booths, but when I was a kid
> place.) His shovels are also larger, and the mission goes a few
> days longer on Mars before they abort (for no reason I can tell).
>
I saw movies with crank-style phones, and the ones with the
earpiece on a cable and the mike on the main part of the device.
Maybe Watney saw some old media with phone booths, or it just
survived as an idiom, like "the whole 9 yards?"
Kevin R
Keith F. Lynch
Aug 22, 2017, 9:44:20 PM8/22/17
to
Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> The idea that the need to save the environment justifies statism
> is the irritant among free marketers, ....
> The idea that the need to save the environment justifies statism
Ironic, since the USSR wasn't exactly known for their environmental
stewardship. They were perhaps the least green nation that ever
existed.
Much of the skepticism about climate change is probably due to how
statists seem downright gleeful, as if it was the best news they'd
heard in years. "At last, an excuse to...."
> Ever read "After Communism" by Robert Heilbroner?
> The New Yorker, September 10, 1990 P. 91
> [quote]
> Socialism may not continue as an important force now that Communism
> is finished. But another way of looking at socialism is as the
> society that must emerge if humanity is to cope with the ecological
> burden that economic growth is placing on the environment.
> [/quote]
> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1990/09/10/after-communism
> IOW, using environmentalism to sneak a planned economy back in after it
> failed so massively. The watermelon strategy. Green on the outside...
is becoming at least 2% wealthier every year. I just don't find
that plausible. Except for things relating to electronics and
communications, almost every category of goods and services is less
affordable to the typical American than it was half a century ago.
I think it's an illusion, partly due to inflation rates being
underestimated, and partly due to GDP being a junk number. GDP counts
not just positive goods or work, but also telemarketing, spamming,
casinos, cigarettes, prosecutors convicting the innocent, defense
attorneys acquitting the guilty, insurance policies that people buy
only because they're required to, etc.
Or maybe the growth is only happening in other countries. It would
hardly be fair of the US, EU, etc., to say that the environment can
only afford a few advanced countries, and the rest of the world will
have to remain primitive. No more draining swamps. No more building
nuclear reactors. Crocodiles have to eat someone or they'll starve,
and Americans certainly aren't about to volunteer to be eaten.
>> .... (How does Watney even know what a phone booth is by the time
>> THE MARTIAN takes place.)
> I'm old enough to remember phone booths, but when I was a kid I saw
> movies with crank-style phones, and the ones with the earpiece on a
> cable and the mike on the main part of the device. Maybe Watney saw
> some old media with phone booths, or it just survived as an idiom,
> like "the whole 9 yards?"
According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> movies with crank-style phones, and the ones with the earpiece on a
> cable and the mike on the main part of the device. Maybe Watney saw
> some old media with phone booths, or it just survived as an idiom,
> like "the whole 9 yards?"
already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Kevrob
Aug 22, 2017, 11:38:35 PM8/22/17
to
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 9:44:20 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
> --
Full-height, enclosed phone booths are rare out here in the
> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
> --
`burbs. The Big Apple still has some;
http://www.payphone-project.com/2017/nyc-phone-booth-roundup.html
Still.... "Superman" 1978
This clip. Skip to 2:24
The "payphone kiosk" had made such inroads against the
phone that it made this joke possible.
Kevin R
Philip Chee
Aug 23, 2017, 2:10:04 AM8/23/17
to
Phil
--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
Scott Dorsey
Aug 23, 2017, 8:55:02 AM8/23/17
to
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>I'm skeptical of economic growth. We keep hearing about how the US
>is becoming at least 2% wealthier every year. I just don't find
>that plausible. Except for things relating to electronics and
>communications, almost every category of goods and services is less
>affordable to the typical American than it was half a century ago.
There is no connection between these two statements. They are sadly both
>
>I'm skeptical of economic growth. We keep hearing about how the US
>is becoming at least 2% wealthier every year. I just don't find
>that plausible. Except for things relating to electronics and
>communications, almost every category of goods and services is less
>affordable to the typical American than it was half a century ago.
true. The US is becoming 2% wealthier every year, but the people on the
bottom of the pyramid are less and less able to afford things.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Gary McGath
Aug 23, 2017, 2:19:49 PM8/23/17
to
eating a rapidly growing part of most people's income. Salaries are
stagnating while health insurance paid by the employer rises. Thus our
"total compensation" is increasing, but it does us little good.
I don't know if this is true, but it's plausible.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
Scott Dorsey
Aug 23, 2017, 2:30:25 PM8/23/17
to
Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>On 8/23/17 8:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm skeptical of economic growth. We keep hearing about how the US
>>> is becoming at least 2% wealthier every year. I just don't find
>>> that plausible. Except for things relating to electronics and
>>> communications, almost every category of goods and services is less
>>> affordable to the typical American than it was half a century ago.
>>
>> There is no connection between these two statements. They are sadly both
>> true. The US is becoming 2% wealthier every year, but the people on the
>> bottom of the pyramid are less and less able to afford things.
>
>On 8/23/17 8:55 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm skeptical of economic growth. We keep hearing about how the US
>>> is becoming at least 2% wealthier every year. I just don't find
>>> that plausible. Except for things relating to electronics and
>>> communications, almost every category of goods and services is less
>>> affordable to the typical American than it was half a century ago.
>>
>> There is no connection between these two statements. They are sadly both
>> true. The US is becoming 2% wealthier every year, but the people on the
>> bottom of the pyramid are less and less able to afford things.
>
>An article in the latest Reason said that health insurance costs are
>eating a rapidly growing part of most people's income. Salaries are
>stagnating while health insurance paid by the employer rises. Thus our
>"total compensation" is increasing, but it does us little good.
>
>I don't know if this is true, but it's plausible.
It's true. It's certainly not the only problem and certainly not the only
>eating a rapidly growing part of most people's income. Salaries are
>stagnating while health insurance paid by the employer rises. Thus our
>"total compensation" is increasing, but it does us little good.
>
>I don't know if this is true, but it's plausible.
reason for the issue Keith describes, but it's on the list.
Keith F. Lynch
Aug 23, 2017, 8:16:47 PM8/23/17
to
Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
the middle.
If it is true that all the gains are going to the one percent, that's
not good for the rest of us, but it's great for the environment, since
even a billionaire can only drive one car at a time, etc.
Al Gore, for instance, is allegedly very non-green in his personal
lifestyle, but on the planetary scale that's irrelevant. It's what
billions of people do that's relevant.
> An article in the latest Reason said that health insurance costs are
> eating a rapidly growing part of most people's income. Salaries are
> stagnating while health insurance paid by the employer rises. Thus
> our "total compensation" is increasing, but it does us little good.
That's certainly a large part of it. Most people would rather have
a job with no medical insurance than have no job with no medical
insurance, but Obama stole that choice from us. No wonder the guy
who promised to repeal Obamacare won the election.
However, medical insurance is far from the only thing whose price
has been increasing much faster than the official inflation rate.
Housing, medical care, nursing homes, child care, college, and
lawyers, for instance.
Also construction. The new Yankee Stadium cost a thousand (!) times
what the old one did, took three times longer to build, isn't expected
to last as long, and seats fewer spectators. The National Air & Space
Museum cost about $40 million in the 1970s. It needs to be refurbished
at an estimated cost of $1 billion, or replaced at a cost of $2 billion.
(And if recent history is any guide, the true cost will be at least
double the estimate.)
And, of course, the federal debt. As soon as interest rates return
to historic norms, all the federal tax revenues won't suffice to pay
interest on that debt, even if no tax money is spent on anything else
whatsoever. Then the federal debt will start doubling every year
until the whole economy totally crashes. Welcome to Venezuela.
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> There is no connection between these two statements. They are
>> sadly both true. The US is becoming 2% wealthier every year, but
>> the people on the bottom of the pyramid are less and less able to
>> afford things.
I wasn't speaking about people on the bottom, but about people in
>> There is no connection between these two statements. They are
>> sadly both true. The US is becoming 2% wealthier every year, but
>> the people on the bottom of the pyramid are less and less able to
>> afford things.
the middle.
If it is true that all the gains are going to the one percent, that's
not good for the rest of us, but it's great for the environment, since
even a billionaire can only drive one car at a time, etc.
Al Gore, for instance, is allegedly very non-green in his personal
lifestyle, but on the planetary scale that's irrelevant. It's what
billions of people do that's relevant.
> An article in the latest Reason said that health insurance costs are
> eating a rapidly growing part of most people's income. Salaries are
> stagnating while health insurance paid by the employer rises. Thus
> our "total compensation" is increasing, but it does us little good.
a job with no medical insurance than have no job with no medical
insurance, but Obama stole that choice from us. No wonder the guy
who promised to repeal Obamacare won the election.
However, medical insurance is far from the only thing whose price
has been increasing much faster than the official inflation rate.
Housing, medical care, nursing homes, child care, college, and
lawyers, for instance.
Also construction. The new Yankee Stadium cost a thousand (!) times
what the old one did, took three times longer to build, isn't expected
to last as long, and seats fewer spectators. The National Air & Space
Museum cost about $40 million in the 1970s. It needs to be refurbished
at an estimated cost of $1 billion, or replaced at a cost of $2 billion.
(And if recent history is any guide, the true cost will be at least
double the estimate.)
And, of course, the federal debt. As soon as interest rates return
to historic norms, all the federal tax revenues won't suffice to pay
interest on that debt, even if no tax money is spent on anything else
whatsoever. Then the federal debt will start doubling every year
until the whole economy totally crashes. Welcome to Venezuela.
Keith F. Lynch
Aug 23, 2017, 10:50:02 PM8/23/17
to
Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
>> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
>> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
> Full-height, enclosed phone booths are rare out here in the `burbs.
> The Big Apple still has some; ....
It would be interesting to give US millennials (people born in the
1990s or later) a quiz on retrocultural literacy. What famous names,
obsolete inventions, old movies, old music, old TV shows, old toys,
etc., could they identify? I'll restrict it to the 20th century.
Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit). The
Beatles. Janis Joplin. Scott Joplin. The Three Stooges (name at
least four). Laurel and Hardy. Watergate. The Dictaphone. The
Instamatic. The Walkman. All in the Family. Lost in Space. Neil
Armstrong. Louis Armstrong. Edwin Armstrong. Jack Armstrong. John
Galt. Uncle Milty. The Beverly Hillbillies. The Titanic. The
Hindenburg. The Bonus Army. Father Coughlin. The fall of Saigon.
M.A.S.H. Roots. The Day After. Casablanca (the movie). Citizen
Kane. Ayn Rand. John Williams. Alfred Hitchcock. Usenet. ARPAnet.
Fidonet. The TRS-80. The rotary dial telephone. The Hula Hoop.
Rubik's Cube. Fallout shelters. The Apple II. FORTRAN. The Spanish
Flu. The Andy Griffith Show. John Glenn. Will Rogers. Roy Rogers
(the restaurant). Roy Rogers (the actor/singer). Virginia Woolf.
Charles Lingbergh. The Lingbergh baby. Babe Ruth. Howard Johnson's.
The World Trade Center bombing (not to be confused with 9/11). Elian
Gonzalez. COBOL. Robert Heinlein. Isaac Asimov. Emmett Till.
Liberace. Rosa Parks. The Waco siege. Ruby Ridge. The Watts riot.
Leon Czolgosz. O.J. Simpson. The decade without any executions.
The spirograph. The Berlin Wall. The Berlin Airlift. Ross Perot.
Polaroids. Answering machines. Dial-up modems. Fax machines.
LaserDiscs. Floppy disks. Pacman. Howard Hughes. Marian Anderson.
Leave it to Beaver. Arnold Palmer. Czechoslovakia. Yugoslavia.
The USSR. The KGB. John Pershing. Alvin York. The Twilight Zone.
Back to the Future. Humphrey Bogart. J.R.R. Tolkien. Airplane (the
movie). Cabbage Patch Kids. G.I. Joe. Etch-a-Sketch. Sputnik.
I think I'd do pretty well, even though much of the above was from
before I was born. But then I was the one making the list, so it's
hardly a fair test. Please add to it. 20th Century only, nobody
and nothing that is still regularly in the news or being shown on
TV (e.g. The Simpsons). No presidents. Nothing involving the
ever-popular WWII.
Also, keep in mind that lives are (usually) fairly long. Just because
an adult is living in the 2030s doesn't mean they have no memories or
knowledge of earlier decades, or that everything they own or use was
built in the 2030s. For instance I'm more than a quarter as old as
the United States, so fully a quarter of US history I learned from the
current news, not from history books. And of course I've also read
plenty of history books. And other books, many of them old.
Gary McGath
Aug 24, 2017, 6:32:01 AM8/24/17
to
On 8/23/17 8:16 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> If it is true that all the gains are going to the one percent, that's
> not good for the rest of us, but it's great for the environment, since
> even a billionaire can only drive one car at a time, etc.
>
> Al Gore, for instance, is allegedly very non-green in his personal
> lifestyle, but on the planetary scale that's irrelevant. It's what
> billions of people do that's relevant.
People having less effective disposable income doesn't generally help
> If it is true that all the gains are going to the one percent, that's
> not good for the rest of us, but it's great for the environment, since
> even a billionaire can only drive one car at a time, etc.
>
> Al Gore, for instance, is allegedly very non-green in his personal
> lifestyle, but on the planetary scale that's irrelevant. It's what
> billions of people do that's relevant.
the environment. Poor countries are among the worst polluters, because
industries can't afford to upgrade to cleaner technology. In the extreme
case, if people use horses and mules because they can't afford cars,
that makes the cities much dirtier.
Kevrob
Aug 24, 2017, 11:17:46 AM8/24/17
to
On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 10:50:02 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> >> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
>
> > Full-height, enclosed phone booths are rare out here in the `burbs.
> > The Big Apple still has some; ....
>
> It would be interesting to give US millennials (people born in the
> 1990s or later) a quiz on retrocultural literacy. What famous names,
> obsolete inventions, old movies, old music, old TV shows, old toys,
> etc., could they identify? I'll restrict it to the 20th century.
>
> Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit). The
> Beatles. Janis Joplin. Scott Joplin. .....
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> >> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
>
> > Full-height, enclosed phone booths are rare out here in the `burbs.
> > The Big Apple still has some; ....
>
> It would be interesting to give US millennials (people born in the
> 1990s or later) a quiz on retrocultural literacy. What famous names,
> obsolete inventions, old movies, old music, old TV shows, old toys,
> etc., could they identify? I'll restrict it to the 20th century.
>
> Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit). The
If I had the time, and could be bothered, I'd try to match
the list up to Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire."
I know there's at least one Harry Potter filk based on this.
I wouldn't be surprised if there are others.
Oh, look!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeDidntStartTheBillyJoelParodies
Kevin R
Kevrob
Aug 24, 2017, 11:20:28 AM8/24/17
to
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 11:17:46 AM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:
Even more, "Oh, Look!"
> Oh, look!
>
> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeDidntStartTheBillyJoelParodies
The page mentions Gary McGath's book!
Kevin R
Even more, "Oh, Look!"
> Oh, look!
>
> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeDidntStartTheBillyJoelParodies
The page mentions Gary McGath's book!
Kevin R
Keith F. Lynch
Aug 24, 2017, 10:05:48 PM8/24/17
to
Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit).
>> The Beatles. Janis Joplin. Scott Joplin. .....
> If I had the time, and could be bothered, I'd try to match
> the list up to Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire."
Interesting. Liberace, Sputnik, Hula Hoops, John Glenn, and Watergate
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit).
>> The Beatles. Janis Joplin. Scott Joplin. .....
> If I had the time, and could be bothered, I'd try to match
> the list up to Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire."
are in both lists. And, at a stretch, I could match Psycho to
Hitchcock, and homeless vets to the Bonus March.
He wasn't doing quite the same thing. His list was 1949-1989 (so I
guess the Bonus March is out); mine was 1901-2000. And I exclude
things that I think are still well known by all age groups, and
include things that were well known but probably never made the
headlines, such as the inspiration for this thread, phone booths.
Kevrob
Aug 24, 2017, 10:54:21 PM8/24/17
to
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:05:48 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >> Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit).
> >> The Beatles. Janis Joplin. Scott Joplin. .....
>
> > If I had the time, and could be bothered, I'd try to match
> > the list up to Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire."
>
> Interesting. Liberace, Sputnik, Hula Hoops, John Glenn, and Watergate
> are in both lists. And, at a stretch, I could match Psycho to
> Hitchcock, and homeless vets to the Bonus March.
>
> He wasn't doing quite the same thing. His list was 1949-1989 (so I
> guess the Bonus March is out); mine was 1901-2000. And I exclude
> things that I think are still well known by all age groups, and
> include things that were well known but probably never made the
> headlines, such as the inspiration for this thread, phone booths.
> --
I was thinking of matching your list to the tune.
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> >> Futurama (the TV show). Futurama (the World's Fair exhibit).
> >> The Beatles. Janis Joplin. Scott Joplin. .....
>
> > If I had the time, and could be bothered, I'd try to match
> > the list up to Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire."
>
> Interesting. Liberace, Sputnik, Hula Hoops, John Glenn, and Watergate
> are in both lists. And, at a stretch, I could match Psycho to
> Hitchcock, and homeless vets to the Bonus March.
>
> He wasn't doing quite the same thing. His list was 1949-1989 (so I
> guess the Bonus March is out); mine was 1901-2000. And I exclude
> things that I think are still well known by all age groups, and
> include things that were well known but probably never made the
> headlines, such as the inspiration for this thread, phone booths.
> --
That there was some crossover doesn't surprise.
Proposed filk with all the omissions and
additions to Tolkien by Peter Jackson;
"He Didn't Scour The Shire"
Kevin R
Joy Beeson
Aug 31, 2017, 1:50:49 AM8/31/17
to
On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:44:19 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
With pay phones, perhaps, but actual phone booths had all been
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
replaced by semi-naked phones with acoustic wings by the turn of the
century.
While looking for something else, I learned that "kiosk" is now the
term for what the last pay phones were: A small roof, perhaps
sheltering or decorating a sign, sometimes large enough that a person
can stand under it while reading the sign. The roofs of the last pay
phones sheltered only the phone.
(a few decades ago, a "kiosk" was a small island store in the walkway
inside a mall, and before that it meant news-stands and the like.)
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Paul Dormer
Aug 31, 2017, 5:21:16 AM8/31/17
to
In article <h35fqctt400p7phmm...@4ax.com>,
not necessarily a standalone construction, often the type of shop where
there is no door but a counter onto the street.
I think I saw the term used in Finland for such a shop.
jbe...@invalid.net.invalid (Joy Beeson) wrote:
>
> (a few decades ago, a "kiosk" was a small island store in the walkway
> inside a mall, and before that it meant news-stands and the like.)
In Europe, kiosk still means a small shop, usually in the street, but
>
> (a few decades ago, a "kiosk" was a small island store in the walkway
> inside a mall, and before that it meant news-stands and the like.)
not necessarily a standalone construction, often the type of shop where
there is no door but a counter onto the street.
I think I saw the term used in Finland for such a shop.
Kevrob
Aug 31, 2017, 7:25:22 AM8/31/17
to
or providing info, often automated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiosk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-service_kiosk
Interesting etymology.
See also: booth.
Kevin R
Scott Dorsey
Aug 31, 2017, 9:16:51 AM8/31/17
to
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:44:19 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
>> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
>
>With pay phones, perhaps, but actual phone booths had all been
>replaced by semi-naked phones with acoustic wings by the turn of the
>century.
This has been a terrible thing for Superman. You never see him around
>On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:44:19 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
>> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
>
>With pay phones, perhaps, but actual phone booths had all been
>replaced by semi-naked phones with acoustic wings by the turn of the
>century.
any more. It's no wonder that criminals are running rampant on our
streets.
>While looking for something else, I learned that "kiosk" is now the
>term for what the last pay phones were: A small roof, perhaps
>sheltering or decorating a sign, sometimes large enough that a person
>can stand under it while reading the sign. The roofs of the last pay
>phones sheltered only the phone.
about the state of palaces in Iran.
pete...@gmail.com
Aug 31, 2017, 9:46:29 AM8/31/17
to
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 9:16:51 AM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> >On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:44:19 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
> ><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >
> >> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> >> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
> >
> >With pay phones, perhaps, but actual phone booths had all been
> >replaced by semi-naked phones with acoustic wings by the turn of the
> >century.
>
> This has been a terrible thing for Superman. You never see him around
> any more. It's no wonder that criminals are running rampant on our
> streets.
This problem was lampshaded in one of the Superman movies.
> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> >On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:44:19 +0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
> ><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >
> >> According to "The Martian Wikia," Watney was born in 1994. He's
> >> already in his 20s. He grew up with phone booths.
> >
> >With pay phones, perhaps, but actual phone booths had all been
> >replaced by semi-naked phones with acoustic wings by the turn of the
> >century.
>
> This has been a terrible thing for Superman. You never see him around
> any more. It's no wonder that criminals are running rampant on our
> streets.
pt
Tim Merrigan
Aug 31, 2017, 6:38:44 PM8/31/17
to
things, too.
--
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation, from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings.
Tim Merrigan
Tim Merrigan
Aug 31, 2017, 6:43:16 PM8/31/17
to
out as, ironic. This tiny niche in the side of the building is this
merchant's palace.
Paul Dormer
Sep 1, 2017, 5:27:44 AM9/1/17
to
In article <524hqc5dn46l2e0ic...@4ax.com>, tp...@ca.rr.com
pavilion, not so much a palace as a palace's garden shed.
As, I see, did the Wikipedia article cited earlier.
(Tim Merrigan) wrote:
>
> I suspect when applied to very small businesses it's, or it started
> out as, ironic. This tiny niche in the side of the building is this
> merchant's palace.
Chambers dictionary says the word originally meant an Eastern garden
>
> I suspect when applied to very small businesses it's, or it started
> out as, ironic. This tiny niche in the side of the building is this
> merchant's palace.
pavilion, not so much a palace as a palace's garden shed.
As, I see, did the Wikipedia article cited earlier.
Joy Beeson
Sep 1, 2017, 1:40:32 PM9/1/17
to
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:43:17 -0700, Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com>
wrote:
[re "kiosk" meaning "palace"]
> I suspect when applied to very small businesses it's, or it started
> out as, ironic. This tiny niche in the side of the building is this
> merchant's palace.
I suspect "kiosk" underwent the same process that led to "muslin"
changing from "extra-fine, very expensive fabric that rich people wear
on special occasions" to "cheap coarse cotton fabric" in the U.S. and
"cleaning-rag gauze" in the U.K.
wrote:
[re "kiosk" meaning "palace"]
> I suspect when applied to very small businesses it's, or it started
> out as, ironic. This tiny niche in the side of the building is this
> merchant's palace.
changing from "extra-fine, very expensive fabric that rich people wear
on special occasions" to "cheap coarse cotton fabric" in the U.S. and
"cleaning-rag gauze" in the U.K.
Keith F. Lynch
Sep 2, 2017, 3:19:29 PM9/2/17
to
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> I suspect "kiosk" underwent the same process that led to "muslin"
> changing from "extra-fine, very expensive fabric that rich people
> wear on special occasions" to "cheap coarse cotton fabric" in the
> U.S. and "cleaning-rag gauze" in the U.K.
Changes in word meaning are awful, amusing, pompous, and artificial.
> I suspect "kiosk" underwent the same process that led to "muslin"
> changing from "extra-fine, very expensive fabric that rich people
> wear on special occasions" to "cheap coarse cotton fabric" in the
> U.S. and "cleaning-rag gauze" in the U.K.
T Guy
Sep 15, 2017, 9:34:46 AM9/15/17
to
On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 5:39:35 PM UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 8:51:19 AM UTC-4, ele...@optonline.net wrote:
> > THE MT VOID
>
> >
> > TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
> > by Mark R. Leeper)
>
> .....
>
> > The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
> > 1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
> > become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
> > appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
> > that, but I am not sure where.
>
> DELL COMICS, after it split with Western Publishing, which
> continued publishing what Dell had as "Gold Key," tried the
> "monsters as super-hero" idea in the 1960s.
>
> It did not go well.
>
> [/understatement]
>
> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula_(Dell_Comics)
>
> http://www.toonopedia.com/dracdell.htm
>
> They did FRANKENSTEIN (not to be confused with Dick Briefer's
> wonderful work for PRIZE COMICS) and WEREWOLF.
They did complete the Hat Trick with a Dracula series(Cite: https://www.comics.org/series/1497/covers/).
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 8:51:19 AM UTC-4, ele...@optonline.net wrote:
> > THE MT VOID
>
> >
> > TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
> > by Mark R. Leeper)
>
> .....
>
> > The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
> > 1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
> > become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
> > appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
> > that, but I am not sure where.
>
> DELL COMICS, after it split with Western Publishing, which
> continued publishing what Dell had as "Gold Key," tried the
> "monsters as super-hero" idea in the 1960s.
>
> It did not go well.
>
> [/understatement]
>
> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula_(Dell_Comics)
>
> http://www.toonopedia.com/dracdell.htm
>
> They did FRANKENSTEIN (not to be confused with Dick Briefer's
> wonderful work for PRIZE COMICS) and WEREWOLF.
If memory serves, all three began as on-off film adaptations, then turned into series.
And now Archie's Shadow series has come to mind...
Kevrob
Sep 15, 2017, 12:28:32 PM9/15/17
to
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 9:34:46 AM UTC-4, T Guy wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 5:39:35 PM UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 8:51:19 AM UTC-4, ele...@optonline.net wrote:
> > > THE MT VOID
> >
> > >
> > > TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
> > > by Mark R. Leeper)
> >
> > .....
> >
> > > The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
> > > 1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
> > > become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
> > > appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
> > > that, but I am not sure where.
> >
> > DELL COMICS, after it split with Western Publishing, which
> > continued publishing what Dell had as "Gold Key," tried the
> > "monsters as super-hero" idea in the 1960s.
> >
> > It did not go well.
> >
> > [/understatement]
> >
> > See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula_(Dell_Comics)
> >
> > http://www.toonopedia.com/dracdell.htm
> >
> > They did FRANKENSTEIN (not to be confused with Dick Briefer's
> > wonderful work for PRIZE COMICS) and WEREWOLF.
>
> They did complete the Hat Trick with a Dracula series(Cite: https://www.comics.org/series/1497/covers/).
>
See my my links, above, for that.
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 5:39:35 PM UTC+1, Kevrob wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 8:51:19 AM UTC-4, ele...@optonline.net wrote:
> > > THE MT VOID
> >
> > >
> > > TOPIC: What is Happening to the Mainstream Film Industry? (comments
> > > by Mark R. Leeper)
> >
> > .....
> >
> > > The oddest entry in this race is Universal turning its 1930s and
> > > 1940s horror films into some kind of universe where the monsters
> > > become superheroes together. It will not be just all the monsters
> > > appear in one place like HOUSE OF FRANKENSIEIN. It will go beyond
> > > that, but I am not sure where.
> >
> > DELL COMICS, after it split with Western Publishing, which
> > continued publishing what Dell had as "Gold Key," tried the
> > "monsters as super-hero" idea in the 1960s.
> >
> > It did not go well.
> >
> > [/understatement]
> >
> > See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula_(Dell_Comics)
> >
> > http://www.toonopedia.com/dracdell.htm
> >
> > They did FRANKENSTEIN (not to be confused with Dick Briefer's
> > wonderful work for PRIZE COMICS) and WEREWOLF.
>
> They did complete the Hat Trick with a Dracula series(Cite: https://www.comics.org/series/1497/covers/).
>
> If memory serves, all three began as on-off film adaptations, then turned into series.
>
> And now Archie's Shadow series has come to mind...
This is turning into "Bad Comics" with your host,
Leonard Pinth-Garnell
See:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/BadTinyURL OR
https://tinyurl.com/BadTinyURL which resolves to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurring_Saturday_Night_Live_characters_and_sketches_introduced_1976%E2%80%931977#Leonard_Pinth-Garnell.2C_host_of_.22Bad_Performances.22
On a sadder note, Len Wein has passed away.
He wrote the first SWAMP THING stories, and much more for
US comics publishers such as DC and MARVEL.
http://www.newsfromme.com/2017/09/10/len-wein-r-p/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/arts/design/len-wein-influential-comic-book-writer-dies-at-69.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Wein
We lost his SWAMP THING co-creator, artist Bernie Wrightson this
year, too.
http://www.newsfromme.com/2017/03/19/bernie-wrightson-r-p/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/arts/design/bernie-wrightson-dead-comic-book-artist.html?mcubz=1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Wrightson
I can well remember when these guys, young enough to be
my older brothers, were the exciting tyros elevated from comics
fandom into filthy pro-dom!
If I didn't already have reasons to feel my own mortality....
Well, this just adds to that.
Kevin R
Philip Chee
Sep 15, 2017, 1:43:02 PM9/15/17
to
On 2017-09-15 21:34, T Guy wrote:
> And now Archie's Shadow series has come to mind...
Ah? Archie Andrews as The Shadow? Boggle!
> And now Archie's Shadow series has come to mind...
Kevrob
Sep 15, 2017, 1:53:15 PM9/15/17
to
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 1:43:02 PM UTC-4, Philip Chee wrote:
> On 2017-09-15 21:34, T Guy wrote:
>
> > And now Archie's Shadow series has come to mind...
>
> Ah? Archie Andrews as The Shadow? Boggle!
>
>
Nah, AA was Pureheart The Powerful.
> On 2017-09-15 21:34, T Guy wrote:
>
> > And now Archie's Shadow series has come to mind...
>
> Ah? Archie Andrews as The Shadow? Boggle!
>
>
Now, Archie Goodwin would probably have written a great SHADOW.
The Archie Adventure series Shadow wasn't quite right.
Issue #1 started off promising:
https://www.comics.org/issue/18521/cover/4/
...but almost immediately he'd been morphed into a pretty
standard long-underwear character:
https://www.comics.org/issue/18996/cover/4/
Purple tights, green trunks, cape and boots, and a mask
that didn't cover his hair. No hat!
We know about plans that make you lose your hat!
By the middle of the run, Jerry (SUPERMAN) Siegel was
scripting, and it was a baaaaaaddd fit. Jerry S was desperate
for work in those days.
Kevin R
Philip Chee
Sep 15, 2017, 3:33:34 PM9/15/17
to
On 2017-09-16 01:53, Kevrob wrote:
> Issue #1 started off promising:
>
> https://www.comics.org/issue/18521/cover/4/
>
> ...but almost immediately he'd been morphed into a pretty standard
> long-underwear character:
>
> https://www.comics.org/issue/18996/cover/4/
OMG! OMG! my eyes!
> Issue #1 started off promising:
>
> https://www.comics.org/issue/18521/cover/4/
>
> ...but almost immediately he'd been morphed into a pretty standard
> long-underwear character:
>
> https://www.comics.org/issue/18996/cover/4/
> Purple tights, green trunks, cape and boots, and a mask that didn't
> cover his hair. No hat!
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