Wizard of Earthsea

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Karen Lofstrom

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Dec 14, 2004, 3:12:56 AM12/14/04
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I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the Wizard
of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!

--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
--------------------------------------------------
"A man could not be in two places at the same time
unless he were a bird!" -- Sir Boyle Roche

Sea Wasp

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Dec 14, 2004, 5:59:10 AM12/14/04
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Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the Wizard
> of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!
>

The advertisements were enough to make me not dare switch it on, for
fear that I would have to spork my eyeballs out.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

Arwen

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Dec 14, 2004, 6:23:16 AM12/14/04
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:12:56 -0000, lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom)
wrote:

>I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the Wizard
>of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!

You know there are going to be difficulties when they can't even get
Sparrowhawk's real Name figured out. I winced when, in the opening
minutes, his gal pal called him Ged. (It's been years since I read the
series, but wasn't he Duny before leaving Ten Alders?) Atuan just felt
entirely wrong. The Gebbeth wasn't scary enough. And where was Hoeg?
Must go reread to get the bad taste out of my brain.

-Arwen

Chris Malme

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Dec 14, 2004, 8:36:42 AM12/14/04
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Sea Wasp <seaobvi...@sgeobviousinc.com> wrote in
news:41BEC78F...@sgeobviousinc.com:

> Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> > I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the
> > Wizard of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!
> >
>
> The advertisements were enough to make me not dare switch it on,
> for fear that I would have to spork my eyeballs out.

I've just had a look at the website. Aren't the characters a little old?
It's a long time since I read the books, but I remember Ged and Tenar as
being adolescents. By what I can see of the show, it isn't even a case of
adults playing younger than their age. Vetch is a contempory of Ged, but on
the website he looks more like "old letch" than "young Vetch".

--
Chris
Minstrel's Hall of Filk - http://www.filklore.com/
Filklore Music Store - http://www.filklore.co.uk/
To contact me, please use form at http://www.filklore.com/contact.phtml

Dave Weingart

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Dec 14, 2004, 10:32:17 AM12/14/04
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One day in Teletubbyland, "czar...@aol.com" <czar...@aol.com> said:
>Is it that bad? Did LeGuin have any over sight of the project or
>she just gave her approval?

It's been reported that she was REALLY unhappy with it.
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Loyalty oaths. Secret searches. No-fly
mailto:phyd...@liii.com lists. Detention without legal recourse.
http://www.weingart.net/ Who won the cold war, again?
ICQ 57055207 -- www.cafepress.com/Politicklers

JERAKAUF

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Dec 14, 2004, 11:43:44 AM12/14/04
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>It's been reported that she was REALLY >unhappy with it, said Dave Wingart.

And truly so. Read what she says at her website:
http://www.ursulakleguin.com/UKL_info.html#News

Jerry Kaufman


Matt Austern

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Dec 14, 2004, 11:43:04 AM12/14/04
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lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) writes:

> I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the Wizard
> of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!

A link to comments by someone who had no connection with the making of
this film: http://www.ursulakleguin.com/UKL_Info.html#earthsea

Andrew Plotkin

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Dec 14, 2004, 12:15:17 PM12/14/04
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Here, Dave Weingart <phyd...@liii.com> wrote:
> One day in Teletubbyland, "czar...@aol.com" <czar...@aol.com> said:
> >Is it that bad? Did LeGuin have any over sight of the project or
> >she just gave her approval?
>
> It's been reported that she was REALLY unhappy with it.

Funny, I don't like what she's done with the series either.

As to the TV production -- if you try to watch it as a version of
LeGuin's story, it's a moldering disaster. Everything is wrong.

If you watch it as a standalone fantasy movie, it actually isn't so
awful. I think. (I have trouble filtering out the expectations.)
However, the writing is dead lame (fantasy dialogue central, how many
pounds of screenplay do you need?), the world has no thought in it,
and the visual design is only occasionally interesting. I wouldn't
recommend it to anyone even if I'd never heard of Earthsea.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.

James A. Donald

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Dec 14, 2004, 1:09:54 PM12/14/04
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Watching the film, the only connection to the books is that the
POV character has the same name and somewhat similar
personality, set in the same locale, with a somewhat similar
system of magic, based on true names.

But he did *look* like Ged, look like I thought Ged would look
about halfway through the books.

Marilee J. Layman

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Dec 14, 2004, 5:57:33 PM12/14/04
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:12:56 -0000, lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom)
wrote:

>I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the Wizard

>of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!

I'm taping all four hours together tonight. The WashPost critic
panned it for being derivative -- derivative of movies made after the
Earthsea books were published.

--
Marilee J. Layman

Marilee J. Layman

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Dec 14, 2004, 5:59:51 PM12/14/04
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Yikes!

--
Marilee J. Layman

Mark Atwood

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Dec 14, 2004, 6:13:01 PM12/14/04
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Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> writes:
>
> I'm taping all four hours together tonight. The WashPost critic
> panned it for being derivative -- derivative of movies made after the
> Earthsea books were published.

This is not actually oxymoronic.

Panning the Earthsea *books* for being derivative of the books that
came after that were inspired by them, that's stupid. But a media
change, is a big enough change, that the critics charge can have
some elements of truth.

--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
ma...@atwood.name | you've done anything at all.
http://mark.atwood.name/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus

Mike Van Pelt

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Dec 14, 2004, 4:54:38 PM12/14/04
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In article <20041214114344...@mb-m14.aol.com>,

Ay, this was the unkindest cut of all:

"I wonder if the people who made the film of The Lord of the
Rings had ended it with Frodo putting on the Ring and ruling
happily ever after, and then claimed that that was what
Tolkien "intended..." would people think they'd been "very,
very honest to the books"?" -- Ursula K. LeGuin.

I don't remember a whole lot about the books, so I don't
suppose I would overly notice untrueness to the books,
but I hadn't planned to make any effort to watch it, either.

--
Yes, I am the last man to have walked on the moon, | Mike Van Pelt
and that's a very dubious and disappointing honor. | mvp.at.calweb.com
It's been far too long. -- Gene Cernan | KE6BVH

Dale Ratner

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Dec 14, 2004, 7:31:27 PM12/14/04
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Andrew Plotkin wrote:
> Here, Dave Weingart <phyd...@liii.com> wrote:
>
>>One day in Teletubbyland, "czar...@aol.com" <czar...@aol.com> said:
>>
>>>Is it that bad? Did LeGuin have any over sight of the project or
>>>she just gave her approval?
>>
>>It's been reported that she was REALLY unhappy with it.
>
>
> Funny, I don't like what she's done with the series either.
>
> As to the TV production -- if you try to watch it as a version of
> LeGuin's story, it's a moldering disaster. Everything is wrong.
>
> If you watch it as a standalone fantasy movie, it actually isn't so
> awful. I think. (I have trouble filtering out the expectations.)
> However, the writing is dead lame (fantasy dialogue central, how many
> pounds of screenplay do you need?), the world has no thought in it,
> and the visual design is only occasionally interesting. I wouldn't
> recommend it to anyone even if I'd never heard of Earthsea.
>
> --Z

As a director I can tell you that Ron Libermann, who directed Earthsea
is a true hack. I have never heard of him before but after 30 minutes I
could tell he was a no talent. Or if he has talent he did not use any on
this job and took it solely for cash. The acting was wooden and he had
some good actors in the cast. There was no coherent or clear storyline,
everything was mashed together without any thought.

Andrew Plotkin

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Dec 14, 2004, 7:42:35 PM12/14/04
to
Here, Mark Atwood <ma...@atwood.name> wrote:
> Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> writes:
> >
> > I'm taping all four hours together tonight. The WashPost critic
> > panned it for being derivative -- derivative of movies made after the
> > Earthsea books were published.
>
> This is not actually oxymoronic.

Makes sense to me. The Harry Potter chapter is not exactly subtle.
There's a bunch of Empire Strikes Back, too, now that I think about
it.

Joel Polowin

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Dec 14, 2004, 7:50:41 PM12/14/04
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James A. Donald wrote:
> But he did *look* like Ged, look like I thought Ged would look
> about halfway through the books.

Apart from the skin colour, that is..?

--
Joel Polowin jpolow...@sympatico.ca but delete "XYZZy" from address
"If you show trophy fish in first act, then by third act you must
show that it is only red herring." -- Pavel Chekov

Dan Goodman

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Dec 14, 2004, 11:33:44 PM12/14/04
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From the reviews I've seen, EVERYTHING that was distinctive about the
Earthsea books seems to have been carefully kept out of the movie.

And it does sound godawful derivative.

--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood
Predictions and Politics http://dsgood.blogspot.com
All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.

mike weber

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Dec 15, 2004, 5:06:25 AM12/15/04
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:31:27 -0500, Dale Ratner <Shado...@aol.com>
typed

>As a director I can tell you that Ron Libermann, who directed Earthsea
>is a true hack. I have never heard of him before but after 30 minutes I
>could tell he was a no talent. Or if he has talent he did not use any on
>this job and took it solely for cash. The acting was wooden and he had
>some good actors in the cast. There was no coherent or clear storyline,
>everything was mashed together without any thought.

Lieberman's credits from IMDB:

Director:

"Legend of Earthsea" (2004) (mini) TV Series
"Jake 2.0" (2003) TV Series (pilot)
Jake 2.0: The Tech (2003) (TV)
Second String (2002) (TV)
The Dead Zone (2002) (V)
Red Skies (2002) (TV)
"The Dead Zone" (2002) TV Series
... aka Stephen King's Dead Zone (USA)
"Strong Medicine" (2000) TV Series (episode "Pilot")
"Once and Again" (1999) TV Series
NetForce (1999) (TV)
Rag and Bone (1997) (TV)
Titanic (1996) (TV)
D3: The Mighty Ducks (1996)
"Moloney" (1996) TV Series
"Medicine Ball" (1995) TV Series
"Under Suspicion" (1994) TV Series
"Harts of the West" (1993) TV Series
"The X Files" (1993) TV Series (episode 7.05 "Rush")
... aka The X-Files (USA)
Fire in the Sky (1993)
All I Want for Christmas (1991)
To Save a Child (1991) (TV)
... aka The Craft (USA)
"Gabriel's Fire" (1990) TV Series (episode "'Tis the Season") (episode
"Gabriel's Fire") (episode "Money Walks") (episode "A Prayer for the
Goldsteins")
"The Young Riders" (1989) TV Series
"Dream Street" (1989) TV Series
"thirtysomething" (1987) TV Series
Table for Five (1983)
Will: The Autobiography of G. Gordon Liddy (1982) (TV)
Fighting Back (1980) (TV)
... aka Fighting Back: The Story of Rocky Bleier
Gaucho (1978) (TV)
A Home Run for Love (1978) (TV)
... aka Thank You, Jackie Robinson (USA: video title)

Producer:

"The Casino" (2004) TV Series (executive producer)
"Jake 2.0" (2003) TV Series (executive producer)
Jake 2.0: The Tech (2003) (TV) (executive producer)
"The Dead Zone" (2002) TV Series (executive producer)
... aka Stephen King's Dead Zone (USA)
"Strong Medicine" (2000) TV Series (executive producer)
Rag and Bone (1997) (TV) (executive producer)
"Moloney" (1996) TV Series (executive producer)
Abandoned and Deceived (1995) (TV) (executive producer) (as Rob
Lieberman)
"Medicine Ball" (1995) TV Series (executive producer)
"Marilu" (1994) TV Series (executive producer)
"Under Suspicion" (1994) TV Series (executive producer)
"Harts of the West" (1993) TV Series (executive producer)
To Save a Child (1991) (TV) (executive producer)
... aka The Craft (USA)
"Gabriel's Fire" (1990) TV Series (executive producer)
"Dream Street" (1989) TV Series (executive producer)

--
=============================================================
"They put manure in his well and they made him talk to lawyers!"
-- Cat Ballou
mike weber <mike....@electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com

Ron Henry

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Dec 15, 2004, 11:39:48 AM12/15/04
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"Marilee J. Layman" <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:itrur0l9jfraiu2sr...@4ax.com...

> The WashPost critic
> panned it for being derivative -- derivative of movies made after the
> Earthsea books were published.

Heh. Reminiscent of movie reviewers who criticized Arrakis in the movie
version of Dune for being derivative of Star Wars' Tatooine.

Ron Henry


Danny Low

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Dec 15, 2004, 2:23:32 PM12/15/04
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On 14 Dec 2004 13:36:42 GMT, Chris Malme
<see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:

>I've just had a look at the website. Aren't the characters a little old?
>It's a long time since I read the books, but I remember Ged and Tenar as
>being adolescents. By what I can see of the show, it isn't even a case of
>adults playing younger than their age. Vetch is a contempory of Ged, but on
>the website he looks more like "old letch" than "young Vetch".

Getting actors that look like the character is expensive as it
involves a lot more time auditioning and delays start of filming.
Jeremy Brett does not look anything like the drawings of Sherlock
Holmes in the original stories but he is best Holmes of them all. Sean
Connery looks nothing like the Bond that is described in the books but
he is still one of the best Bonds around.

So sometimes it is better to go with someone who can act the role even
if he does not look the role. And when you have a tight budget as any
TV series will have, you do not even need someone who would be the
definitive Ged. Especially as the child labor laws would kill the
budget if you got people who really are the right age.

Danny
Don't question authority. What makes you think they
know anything? (Remove the first dot for a valid e-mail
address)

czar...@aol.com

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Dec 14, 2004, 6:13:02 AM12/14/04
to

Sea Wasp wrote:
> Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> > I'm watching something that purports to be a dramatization of the
Wizard
> > of Earthsea trilogy on the Sci-Fi channel. Oh, the humanity!
> >
>
> The advertisements were enough to make me not dare switch it on, for

> fear that I would have to spork my eyeballs out.
>

Is it that bad? Did LeGuin have any over sight of the project or

Dan Goodman

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Dec 15, 2004, 6:39:55 PM12/15/04
to

Perhaps it was.

The _written_ version wasn't; that doesn't mean the _movie_ version wasn't.

Chris Malme

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Dec 15, 2004, 7:00:03 PM12/15/04
to
Danny Low <dann...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:e531s0pie6k344vfl...@4ax.com:

> On 14 Dec 2004 13:36:42 GMT, Chris Malme
> <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I've just had a look at the website. Aren't the characters a little
> >old? It's a long time since I read the books, but I remember Ged and
> >Tenar as being adolescents. By what I can see of the show, it isn't
> >even a case of adults playing younger than their age. Vetch is a
> >contempory of Ged, but on the website he looks more like "old letch"
> >than "young Vetch".
>
> Getting actors that look like the character is expensive as it
> involves a lot more time auditioning and delays start of filming.

That is not what I was suggesting. I was talking about casting actors who
are either about the right age or can look and act roughly the right age.
Generally it is quite acceptable for the actors to be a few years older
that the part they are playing, provided they give a convincing
performance. The two characters I mentioned are (if I recollect
correctly) in their teens, and yet one seems to have mutton chop
whiskers, and the other a three day growth of beard.

Yes, kids *can* have facial hair. But if you are casting a 20-something
actor to play a mid-teen character, it is far more believable if they are
moderately clean-shaven.

For example, compare James McAvoy in Children of Dune with Shawn Ashmore
in Earthsea. They are the same age, but McAvoy is far more successful in
playing a role younger than himself. Look at Michael J Fox, who was in
his early 20's when he played a 16 year old in Family Ties, and 3-8 years
older when still playing a high-school kid in the Back to the Future
movies. Look at the Buffy cast.

> Jeremy Brett does not look anything like the drawings of Sherlock
> Holmes in the original stories but he is best Holmes of them all. Sean
> Connery looks nothing like the Bond that is described in the books but
> he is still one of the best Bonds around.

Yes, but neither of them were playing an adolescent boy.

mike weber

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Dec 15, 2004, 7:40:47 PM12/15/04
to
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:39:48 -0500, "Ron Henry"
<ron....@blahblahblah.gmail.com> typed

Or the people who see "Dark Star" and claim it's derivative of "Star
Wars", when actually it's somewhat the other way around...

Marilee J. Layman

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Dec 15, 2004, 8:18:52 PM12/15/04
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:06:25 GMT, mike weber
<kras...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:31:27 -0500, Dale Ratner <Shado...@aol.com>
>typed
>
>>As a director I can tell you that Ron Libermann, who directed Earthsea
>>is a true hack. I have never heard of him before but after 30 minutes I
>>could tell he was a no talent. Or if he has talent he did not use any on
>>this job and took it solely for cash. The acting was wooden and he had
>>some good actors in the cast. There was no coherent or clear storyline,
>>everything was mashed together without any thought.
>
>Lieberman's credits from IMDB:
>
>Director:
>
>"Legend of Earthsea" (2004) (mini) TV Series
>"Jake 2.0" (2003) TV Series (pilot)
>Jake 2.0: The Tech (2003) (TV)

This was an interesting series that had big holes in the plot. The
actor is now playing a much better role in Medical Investigation.

>Second String (2002) (TV)
>The Dead Zone (2002) (V)
>Red Skies (2002) (TV)
>"The Dead Zone" (2002) TV Series
>... aka Stephen King's Dead Zone (USA)

I like this show, I watch most of the eps.

>"Strong Medicine" (2000) TV Series (episode "Pilot")

I don't remember this ep, but I've seen all of them.

--
Marilee J. Layman

Marilee J. Layman

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Dec 15, 2004, 8:19:43 PM12/15/04
to

Having seen Andrew opine that even if you ignore Earthsea, it's a
*bad* fantasy movie, I didn't bother taping it.

--
Marilee J. Layman

Dale Ratner

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Dec 15, 2004, 8:51:00 PM12/15/04
to
Chris Malme wrote:
> Danny Low <dann...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:e531s0pie6k344vfl...@4ax.com:

>

> For example, compare James McAvoy in Children of Dune with Shawn Ashmore
> in Earthsea. They are the same age, but McAvoy is far more successful in
> playing a role younger than himself. Look at Michael J Fox, who was in
> his early 20's when he played a 16 year old in Family Ties, and 3-8 years
> older when still playing a high-school kid in the Back to the Future
> movies. Look at the Buffy cast.
>

>Michael J. Fox is a good example but I think the Buffy cast is not. I
thought that the only cast member who was able to realistically pass as
a teenager for a while was Allyson Hannegan and that was only for the
first two seasons. The other cast members always looked like they were
in their mid-20s or older to me. I understood why they wanted older
actors to play the parts because they would not have to bother with
hiring tutors and other reasons. However the actors on Buffy looked too old.

I will admit that as a director I give less leeway to actors in the ages
they can play. Any actor will be able to tell you their age range, which
is basically the span of roles they can play. Actors usually like to
give big age ranges. Men will usually give a ten to twelve year span
(e.g. a 30 year old actor will say his age range is 25 to 37.) Women
will give a five to seven year age span, maybe more if they are in
really good shape. I know an actress in her late 30s but could probably
pass for someone in her late 20s. As a director I prefer to only use
actors in a 3 to 4 year age span especially for younger roles. For
example if am directing something with a 16 year old character, I really
try to avoid casting someone over 20.

Keith F. Lynch

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Dec 15, 2004, 10:21:32 PM12/15/04
to
Dale Ratner <Shado...@aol.com> wrote:
> Actors usually like to give big age ranges. Men will usually give a
> ten to twelve year span (e.g. a 30 year old actor will say his age
> range is 25 to 37.) Women will give a five to seven year age span,
> maybe more if they are in really good shape.

Maybe I'm just not as good as others at estimating ages, but it seems
to be that the ranges ought to be much wider. Often I see women
playing mother and daughter, and I can't tell which one is supposed to
be older.

Some of it is just Hollywood -- movie stars get facelifts, etc., that
make them look younger than most people of their age in real life. It
seems to be that if a character is intended to be sixty years old, and
not both vain and wealthy, they should be played by someone who looks
like they are sixty, not by a sixty-year-old who has spent lots of
money on looking younger. Hollywood obviously disagrees.

ObSeasonal: Henry Winkler was 33 when he played an elderly Scrooge.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Mark_R...@hotmail.com

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Dec 15, 2004, 10:38:23 PM12/15/04
to
Dale Ratner wrote:
> >Michael J. Fox is a good example but I think the Buffy cast is not.
I
> thought that the only cast member who was able to realistically pass
as
> a teenager for a while was Allyson Hannegan and that was only for the

> first two seasons. The other cast members always looked like they
were
> in their mid-20s or older to me. I understood why they wanted older
> actors to play the parts because they would not have to bother with
> hiring tutors and other reasons. However the actors on Buffy looked
too old.

Geller was 18 at the start of the series.

James A. Donald

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Dec 16, 2004, 12:06:46 AM12/16/04
to
On 16 Dec 2004 00:00:03 GMT, Chris Malme
> Yes, kids *can* have facial hair. But if you are casting a 20-something
> actor to play a mid-teen character, it is far more believable if they are
> moderately clean-shaven.

In the books, Ged ages considerably. So you cast someone who is much
too old for the early part of the story, and much too young for the
latter part of the story - though in the end they so thoroughly
ditched the original story that it scarcely matters.

Chris Malme

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Dec 16, 2004, 7:30:53 AM12/16/04
to
Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in
news:kdo1s0lasgr5ahdpe...@4ax.com:

> >"The Dead Zone" (2002) TV Series
> >... aka Stephen King's Dead Zone (USA)
>
> I like this show, I watch most of the eps.

This is being shown in the UK now - I don't watch it regularly, but the
episodes I have seen have been entertaining.

The thing that struck me about this series is was how similar in general
appearance and mannerisms Anthony Michael Hall was to Christopher Walken,
who played the same part in the movie. Complete with high forehead above
similar eyes, back-combed hair, and hesitant speech. This is not a
criticism, as it made the part quite compelling to watch.

The last time I was really aware of Anthony Michael Hall was with his role
in The Breakfast Club. He is somewhat different now.

Dave Weingart

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Dec 16, 2004, 9:55:09 AM12/16/04
to

How old was the actress who played Dawn?

--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Loyalty oaths. Secret searches. No-fly
mailto:phyd...@liii.com lists. Detention without legal recourse.
http://www.weingart.net/ Who won the cold war, again?
ICQ 57055207 -- www.cafepress.com/Politicklers

Danny Low

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Dec 16, 2004, 2:50:26 PM12/16/04
to
On 16 Dec 2004 00:00:03 GMT, Chris Malme
<see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:

> I was talking about casting actors who
>are either about the right age or can look and act roughly the right age.
>Generally it is quite acceptable for the actors to be a few years older
>that the part they are playing, provided they give a convincing
>performance. The two characters I mentioned are (if I recollect
>correctly) in their teens, and yet one seems to have mutton chop
>whiskers, and the other a three day growth of beard.

The problem here is young actors are usually not good actors. It is
the biggest reason while child actors rarely make the transition to
adult actors. When you are young, all you have to do is be cute but
when you grow up, you actually have to act. Ged undergoes a major
transformation from callow youth to mature adult. It would take a
remarkable young actor of the proper age range to make that
transformation. An older and more experienced actor is much easier to
find. So this is one of those criticism that I do not consider valid
simply because of the impracticality of finding an actor of the right
age who can do the job. There are limits to how close a resemblance
you can get to the character with real people.

Danny Low

unread,
Dec 16, 2004, 2:53:56 PM12/16/04
to
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:55:09 +0000 (UTC), phyd...@liii.com (Dave
Weingart) wrote:

>>Geller was 18 at the start of the series.
>How old was the actress who played Dawn?

The same age as her character, 15. You could see her adolescent growth
spurt happen in the 3 seasons she was on the series.

Danny Low

unread,
Dec 16, 2004, 2:58:36 PM12/16/04
to
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:06:46 -0800, James A. Donald
<jam...@echeque.com> wrote:

>In the books, Ged ages considerably. So you cast someone who is much
>too old for the early part of the story, and much too young for the
>latter part of the story - though in the end they so thoroughly
>ditched the original story that it scarcely matters.

The length of the events in the series required a major re-write for
TV. However the script did retain the essence of the story, namely
Ged's transformation from reckless egotistical youth to mature wise
adult. That was the main story arc in the series.

Ron Henry

unread,
Dec 16, 2004, 4:28:16 PM12/16/04
to

"Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:k11ogr0qgkvu.o...@40tude.net...

> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:39:48 -0500, Ron Henry wrote:
>
> > "Marilee J. Layman" <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in message
> > news:itrur0l9jfraiu2sr...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> The WashPost critic
> >> panned it for being derivative -- derivative of movies made after
the
> >> Earthsea books were published.
> >
> > Heh. Reminiscent of movie reviewers who criticized Arrakis in the
movie
> > version of Dune for being derivative of Star Wars' Tatooine.
>
> Perhaps it was.
>
> The _written_ version wasn't; that doesn't mean the _movie_ version
wasn't.

I should have been more specific. I recall reviews of Lynch's _Dune_
that took the attitude, "Pshaw, a desert planet -- Star Wars already
_did_ that, not to mention the skeleton of a huge worm in the desert...
couldn't Dune think of something original?"

Shrug; made me chuckle at the time...

Ron


Marilee J. Layman

unread,
Dec 16, 2004, 6:57:57 PM12/16/04
to
On 16 Dec 2004 12:30:53 GMT, Chris Malme
<see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:

>Marilee J. Layman <mjla...@erols.com> wrote in
>news:kdo1s0lasgr5ahdpe...@4ax.com:
>
>> >"The Dead Zone" (2002) TV Series
>> >... aka Stephen King's Dead Zone (USA)
>>
>> I like this show, I watch most of the eps.
>
>This is being shown in the UK now - I don't watch it regularly, but the
>episodes I have seen have been entertaining.
>
>The thing that struck me about this series is was how similar in general
>appearance and mannerisms Anthony Michael Hall was to Christopher Walken,
>who played the same part in the movie. Complete with high forehead above
>similar eyes, back-combed hair, and hesitant speech. This is not a
>criticism, as it made the part quite compelling to watch.
>
>The last time I was really aware of Anthony Michael Hall was with his role
>in The Breakfast Club. He is somewhat different now.

Yes, I missed the first couple of eps because I couldn't imagine Hall
in that role, but he has certainly grown up, if not become a better
actor.

--
Marilee J. Layman

Daniel R. Reitman

unread,
Dec 17, 2004, 1:45:03 AM12/17/04
to
On 16 Dec 2004 12:30:53 GMT, Chris Malme
<see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:

>. . . .

>The thing that struck me about this series is was how similar in general
>appearance and mannerisms Anthony Michael Hall was to Christopher Walken,
>who played the same part in the movie. Complete with high forehead above
>similar eyes, back-combed hair, and hesitant speech. This is not a
>criticism, as it made the part quite compelling to watch.

>The last time I was really aware of Anthony Michael Hall was with his role
>in The Breakfast Club. He is somewhat different now.

The first big departure I saw in AMH from the TBC style was in Edward
Scissorhands.

Dan, ad nauseam

David Goldfarb

unread,
Dec 16, 2004, 5:38:22 AM12/16/04
to
In article <1103168303.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Mark_R...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Geller was 18 at the start of the series.

According to the IMDB, she was born on 14 April 1977. Since "Buffy"
made its debut in January 1997, that means she was somewhat over 19.

--
David Goldfarb |"To the general public "calories" are not units
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |of measurement but evil creatures that live in
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |tasty food and make people fat."
| -- Bill Jennings on rec.arts.comics.misc

Chris Malme

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Dec 17, 2004, 4:07:02 AM12/17/04
to
Daniel R. Reitman <drei...@spiritone.com> wrote in
news:e205s0p7nnr88o35o...@4ax.com:

To my shame, I know Edward Scissorhands, and hadn't recognised him in it.

I must rewatch it sometime.

Mark Atwood

unread,
Dec 17, 2004, 9:09:10 AM12/17/04
to
Chris Malme <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> writes:
>
> The last time I was really aware of Anthony Michael Hall was with his role
> in The Breakfast Club. He is somewhat different now.

Much more attractive, for one.

--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
ma...@atwood.name | you've done anything at all.
http://mark.atwood.name/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus

mike weber

unread,
Dec 17, 2004, 6:56:16 PM12/17/04
to
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:38:22 +0000 (UTC), gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
(David Goldfarb) typed

>In article <1103168303.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> <Mark_R...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Geller was 18 at the start of the series.
>
>According to the IMDB, she was born on 14 April 1977. Since "Buffy"
>made its debut in January 1997, that means she was somewhat over 19.

How long was the series in pre-production and shooting before its
debut?

Marilee J. Layman

unread,
Dec 17, 2004, 7:01:29 PM12/17/04
to
On 17 Dec 2004 09:07:02 GMT, Chris Malme
<see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:

>Daniel R. Reitman <drei...@spiritone.com> wrote in
>news:e205s0p7nnr88o35o...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 16 Dec 2004 12:30:53 GMT, Chris Malme
>> <see_si...@filklore.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >. . . .
>>
>> >The thing that struck me about this series is was how similar in
>> >general appearance and mannerisms Anthony Michael Hall was to
>> >Christopher Walken, who played the same part in the movie. Complete
>> >with high forehead above similar eyes, back-combed hair, and hesitant
>> >speech. This is not a criticism, as it made the part quite compelling
>> >to watch.
>>
>> >The last time I was really aware of Anthony Michael Hall was with his
>> >role in The Breakfast Club. He is somewhat different now.
>>
>> The first big departure I saw in AMH from the TBC style was in Edward
>> Scissorhands.
>
>To my shame, I know Edward Scissorhands, and hadn't recognised him in it.

I was just thinking the same thing. I have a copy here, I'll have to
look. (Although tonight I'm watching El Mariachi and Desperado and
tomorrow Once Upon a Time in Mexico.)

>I must rewatch it sometime.

--
Marilee J. Layman

Vlatko Juric-Kokic

unread,
Dec 18, 2004, 5:42:55 AM12/18/04
to
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:09:54 -0800, James A. Donald
<jam...@echeque.com> wrote:

>the only connection to the books is ...
(...)
>set in the same locale

If the maps on the site are any reference, the series has no idea
about the locale.

My five-year old nephew could make soemthing more faithful to the
books with the program they used.

Not to mention myself.:-)

So, is the FX so bad in the series? It looks like somebody paid them
to do it.

vlatko
--
vlatko.ju...@zg.htnet.hr

David Goldfarb

unread,
Dec 21, 2004, 2:57:18 AM12/21/04
to
In article <5gs6s01ugc1fbqgbd...@4ax.com>,

mike weber <mike.weber.electronictiger.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:38:22 +0000 (UTC), gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
>(David Goldfarb) typed
>
>>In article <1103168303.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> <Mark_R...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Geller was 18 at the start of the series.
>>
>>According to the IMDB, she was born on 14 April 1977. Since "Buffy"
>>made its debut in January 1997, that means she was somewhat over 19.
>
>How long was the series in pre-production and shooting before its
>debut?

I don't know. I wouldn't think it would all *that* long, but on the
other hand they did shoot the entire first season of 13 episodes before
any of it aired. (Which I know because Joss Whedon said so on the
commentary track of "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and "The Harvest" on DVD.)

--
David Goldfarb |"Thanks for the Dadaist pep talk. I feel
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | much more abstract now."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Danny Low

unread,
Dec 21, 2004, 2:02:46 PM12/21/04
to
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:57:18 +0000 (UTC), gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU
(David Goldfarb) wrote:

>>>According to the IMDB, she was born on 14 April 1977. Since "Buffy"
>>>made its debut in January 1997, that means she was somewhat over 19.
>>How long was the series in pre-production and shooting before its
>>debut?
>I don't know. I wouldn't think it would all *that* long, but on the
>other hand they did shoot the entire first season of 13 episodes before
>any of it aired. (Which I know because Joss Whedon said so on the
>commentary track of "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and "The Harvest" on DVD.)

Which would make Geller only 3 years older than her character. This is
hardly a major difference especially as most people's adolescent
growth spurt is largely over by 16. So Buffy at 16 would largely look
like Geller at 19.

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