Police And Conventions
D. 'krikket' Krick
item that set this all off, but here is a short guideline that I've founds that
WORKS... Use it or not as you will. (MY experience is limied to working
Security for a Living, plus helping ConCom a recent Con, and it's predecessor.
And of course some working at the Rocky Horror Picture Show....)
1> TELL the Police in ADVANCE that you will be having a Con, what kind of
problems you may run into and how you plan on dealing with them! (READ: Tell
them we have on-site "Security" or "Troubleshooters"...)
This will quiet a LOT of police right from the starting point. IT tells them
that you are willing to work WITH them IF nessesary, and therefore puts you in
a miuch better light. Also, when you mention that you have people working
security/troubleshooting, odds are muchg greater they WON'T stop by unless YOU
(pr the hotel) call them! (Hell, at DucKon I, I was suspected of helping
"conributing to the deliquency of a monor" (I was heading the security dept!)
and we hgad to call the police on the HOTEL STAFF! But they were always
expremely polite, nice, and didn't hang around and cause problems after thge
origional problem was rooted out...)
2> TELL the hotel in advance that you'll be running sec./troubleshooters, and
try to cooridinate with the hotel in advance. This can also stop a bunch of
troubles from happening. (If we had to deal with a bunch os skinny dippers, I
knew of 1 person on the hotel staff who would have helped us pout, and
interceded on our behalf if nessesary...)
And of course COMMUMICATE WITH YOURSELVES! Get 2 WAY RADIOS of possible! It's
amazing what kind of problems can be headed off if everyone knows EXACTLY what
is happening...
Krikket ! kri...@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick ! Team Star Charter Member ! Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers> ! Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
Jim Mann
> And of course COMMUMICATE WITH YOURSELVES! Get 2 WAY RADIOS of
possible! It's
> amazing what kind of problems can be headed off if everyone knows
EXACTLY what
> is happening...
>
I'm afraid I have to disagree here (I had agreed with much of what
you had said up till this point). For years, at Boskone we
had an "Operations" department that included floor walkers with
beepers and/or radios. This resulted in a number of problems:
1. The existence of an Operations group that was handling
"security" created an "it's their job" attitude on the
committee. Committee members would see something wrong
and call Operations rather than ever responding themselves.
When we changed Operations to Services, a big part of the
change was telling all the committee that "Services does not
roam the halls. You do, while you are doing other things. If
you see something wrong, do the right thing. We can help
if you need it. If it is bad, we can call the hotel
security staff. But it is not our job to come by to tell
a group of kids to stop sliding down the bannisters. You
can tell them this."
2. Radios (at Boskone and at almost every other convention
I've seen) contribute to a rather officious attitude among
those who have them. I find it hard to keep from giggling
every time I see one of them stop, look very serious,
and call into their radio "Rover one to base, Rover one to
base. All clear in the hall next to the ballroom. Over."
A related problem is that folks walking around looking for
trouble often find it. Traditional con security often
gets involved in things that are either not a problem or
not OUR problem (that is, they are a hotel problem and
are best handled by telling hotel security about them).
3. Radios and beepers are usually not needed. There are, after
all, hotel phones all over the place.
At the last Boskone that had Operations (and lots of beepers
and radios) (this was in the mid-eighties somewhere), the
head of Ops tried to insist that a) Program department must
have a beeper and 2) they had to be able to talk to the
HEAD of program. It took the head of program that year to
say that a) he would dump the beeper in a water glass if
it were left in the Green Room, since the Green Room had a
phone and program could always be reached there and b) whoever
was running the Green Room was in charge of program. They
wouldn't be there if they weren't capable of making reasonable
decisions, and the program head did not have to be contacted
directly for all program related decisions.
Now that I've said this, I will agree that there are exceptions.
Worldcons, which are spread between several hotels and a convention
center, often can make good use of radios and beepers. However,
each person using one should justify this use and not get one
simply because he/she is a department head or because beepers
have become status symbols.
--
Jim Mann
Stratus Computer jm...@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Brad Woodcock
several more. The cons that I have actually worked security, the security
team consisted of at most 3 people (and some badgers). The thing
that I found most important is that the security people don't take
themselves too seriously. If you don't act like an officious, overbearing
asshole most people will treat you reasonably well and even sometimes
listen to you. The thing I have seen most cons do wrong is that they
get many more people than are needed to do security and they don't pay
close enough attention to getting people that are efficient and won't
go totally power crazed. Uniforms for cons security are completely out
of the question. At best it makes them look like SS members and at worst
it makes them a joke. All in all, the uniforms just make the people wearing
them take themselves entirely too seriously. Radios are fine, as long as
people use them correctly. You don't need to do all that call sign
and reporting in bull unless you are using radios that are FCC restricted
to such things.
.
ZZ
--
Brad Woodcock The Trolls Guild
wood...@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu "We're here to make you
brad-...@nova.novanet.org appreciate normal people."
(217)344-0363
Steve E Schendel
You bring up good points about walkie talkies at cons. I always have some fun
tuning my ham handy talkie on con security frequencies. Most of 'em get real
upset
that someone else "unauthorized person" has access to "their" communications.
In other words, someone else has a toy just like mine, and I wanted to be the
big shit with the only one.
At Marcon here in Columbus, I was asked to take the radio away (which I didnt'
do). Back in another city I lived, I was actually booted from the con.
The point is you really don't need radios at a con. If you have them, the
security people get an "attitude". Phones are private, realiable (no
batteries), and cheaper.
Evelyn C. Leeper
And then of course there are those of us attendees who want to use
walkie-talkies. Mark and I were labeled "techno-dweebs" by a friend of
ours who found us using walkie-talkies in the Dealers Room at Noreascon
to converse while separated by most of the room. "Did you want a copy
of ACCOUNTANTS OF GOR?" "No, but if they have LIBRARIANS OF GOR, I'm
still looking for that one." Or, "Where are you? I'm by the north
door and it's time to leave."
And so on. At a small con they're not really necessary; in a worldcon
dealers room they're practically a necessity (okay, I exaggerate.) We
don't stay on them constantly, but having the con committee try to say
we can't use them is a good way to annoy me. (I will make exceptions;
if they are using walkie-talkies to do crowd-control for the Hugos or
such, and ask me to refrain, I will.)
Evelyn C. Leeper | +1 908 957 2070 | att!mtgzy!ecl or e...@mtgzy.att.com
--
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
-- Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
Grig Larson
>In article <krikke...@meltdown.chi.il.us>
>kri...@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>> And of course COMMUMICATE WITH YOURSELVES! Get 2 WAY RADIOS of
>possible! It's
>> amazing what kind of problems can be headed off if everyone knows
>EXACTLY what
>> is happening...
>>
>
>I'm afraid I have to disagree here (I had agreed with much of what
>you had said up till this point). For years, at Boskone we
>had an "Operations" department that included floor walkers with
>beepers and/or radios. This resulted in a number of problems:
>
>1. The existence of an Operations group that was handling
> "security" created an "it's their job" attitude on the
> committee. Committee members would see something wrong
> and call Operations rather than ever responding themselves.
>
> When we changed Operations to Services, a big part of the
> change was telling all the committee that "Services does not
> roam the halls. You do, while you are doing other things. If
> you see something wrong, do the right thing. We can help
> if you need it. If it is bad, we can call the hotel
> security staff. But it is not our job to come by to tell
> a group of kids to stop sliding down the bannisters. You
> can tell them this."
I am going to have some disagreements here, but let me add that in some
cases, all of this is true. FanTek (EveCon and CastleCon) runs security
as a subgroup within the main group. IE, everyone who needs to be contacted
at a moment's notice will carry a headset or radio. Intolerance from regist-
ration or another subgroup is very uncommon. I guess everyone on staff is
on security in that way, but it isn't a huge gestapo convention.
>2. Radios (at Boskone and at almost every other convention
> I've seen) contribute to a rather officious attitude among
> those who have them. I find it hard to keep from giggling
> every time I see one of them stop, look very serious,
> and call into their radio "Rover one to base, Rover one to
> base. All clear in the hall next to the ballroom. Over."
>
> A related problem is that folks walking around looking for
> trouble often find it. Traditional con security often
> gets involved in things that are either not a problem or
> not OUR problem (that is, they are a hotel problem and
> are best handled by telling hotel security about them).
That is a personal problem. We have had some people get all high and mighty
on us from time to time, and we simply "retire" these people or give them
"special assignments," like guarding the Parking Garage elevator lobby if
their attitude is a problem. You may giggle when you see security, but our
security has nipped about 6 or 7 things in the bud before they became total
calamities. Sure, we get some real winners who look like they just came
here to be away from mom, but all in all, our security has been very success-
ful at getting things done without all this officiousness that other people
have.
>3. Radios and beepers are usually not needed. There are, after
> all, hotel phones all over the place.
>
> At the last Boskone that had Operations (and lots of beepers
> and radios) (this was in the mid-eighties somewhere), the
> head of Ops tried to insist that a) Program department must
> have a beeper and 2) they had to be able to talk to the
> HEAD of program. It took the head of program that year to
> say that a) he would dump the beeper in a water glass if
> it were left in the Green Room, since the Green Room had a
> phone and program could always be reached there and b) whoever
> was running the Green Room was in charge of program. They
> wouldn't be there if they weren't capable of making reasonable
> decisions, and the program head did not have to be contacted
> directly for all program related decisions.
Uh, you have never been in many hotels, have you? Sometimes we are lucky just
to get a phone at security! Although nowadays we are at bigger hotels, a
majority of conventions are at some motor lodge with a ballroom. Low budget
and little frills. Radios are sometimes the only way you can find your
guest!
>Now that I've said this, I will agree that there are exceptions.
>Worldcons, which are spread between several hotels and a convention
>center, often can make good use of radios and beepers. However,
>each person using one should justify this use and not get one
>simply because he/she is a department head or because beepers
>have become status symbols.
>
>--
>Jim Mann
>Stratus Computer jm...@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
All in all, I guess to have a good security force, you need to:
a: work with locals
b: work with hotel staff
c: work with fen
d: not take anything too seriously
=================<<< < < < *Punk Walrus* > > > >>>=================
[ \||/ | --------------------------------------- | \||/ ]
[ (o-) | "It might be in the || wal...@bessel.umd.edu | (o-) ]
[ /\ | basement, I'll go up- || Punk Walrus on the | /\ ]
[ Punkus | stairs and check..." || FanTek BBS 301-203-9582 | It's ]
[ Walrus | -- M.C. Escher -- || SF&F Author Extrordinare| Punkie!]
=========================================================================
Official EveCon 10 Representative for the InterNet Entertainment System.
John Charles Fiala
and Balticon. Usually, when going around with someone else, we get
a mike, and are expected to use it as little as possible. I generally
don't see any problems on the level of those mentioned earlier, although
part of it could be from a few of those using one channel to get in touch
with department heads, and a separate channel for the security folks.
About the most constant problem I've ever had to worry about when
walking halls is people smoking in non-smoking corridors.
See ya in the con suite...
-john
"Yes, [AIDS] is probably a message from God. It's God trying
to show us how mean a healthy man can be to a sick man."
jf...@andrew.cmu.edu -- Joe Bob Briggs
FRANK NEY
re: Cons giving other radio licensees trouble
If you are using 'shared use' or 'itinerant' frequencies along with
the convention whatever, that is *exactly* what they are. Any action
on the part of the convention to declare the frequency their exclusive
property is a violation of FCC rules and can cause the convention to
lose their license or the privledge of using rental licenses.
Besides which, any group using a shared or itinerant without at least
a PL tone deserves what they get for stupidity.
BTW, booting someone who has a ham license is quite possibly a
violation of FCC and may definitely be a violation of local law. A
convention that does this to me will *definitely* feel the heat,
because my next stop will be the local magistrate.
Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
Ninth Amendment: The right to be left alone!
--
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
John 'Fast-Eddie/FuzzFace' McMahon
In article <1992Aug12.1...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ssc...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve E Schendel) writes:
=
=You bring up good points about walkie talkies at cons. I always have some fun
=tuning my ham handy talkie on con security frequencies. Most of 'em get real
=upset
=that someone else "unauthorized person" has access to "their" communications.
Typically the more "in the know" people are about radios, the more likely
they are to understand that they are unsecure (use the phones!) and potentially
monitored. Radios are good for communications of a general nature, or
when picking up a phone is a big problem.
There was one con where I was glad we had the radios, most of the house phones
had been trashed by con attendees who get their kicks from that sort of thing.
=At Marcon here in Columbus, I was asked to take the radio away (which I didnt'
=do). Back in another city I lived, I was actually booted from the con.
That's downright silly (that it happened). Whenever I use a radio (be it
at a professional convention, worldcon or your average sci-fi convention)
I assume someone is listening, but then again a good number of friends of
mine are hams. One of these days I'll become a ham, when I find the time.
The only time I asked anyone to put their radios away was when they were
transmitting on our frequencies and disrupting our work. That seemed
reasonable.
=The point is you really don't need radios at a con.
I disagree, they can be a useful tool. But they have to remain a tool,
not a status symbol or badge of power. That's not a function of what
equipment you use, it's a function of the leadership (or lack therof)
of your security people.
=Phones are private, realiable (no
=batteries), and cheaper.
True, but radios allow easier conferencing. They also allow you to
communicate in "non-phone" areas. They are also mobile, and most
con committee folks are pretty mobile. :-)
--
John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon ()
TGV, Incorporated () "Any networking problem can be solved by
603 Mission Street () the application of 33 miles of Unshielded
Santa Cruz, California 95060 () Twisted Pair (UTP)"
408-427-4366 or 800-TGV-3440 () [InterOp Spring 1992]
E-Mail: MCM...@TGV.COM ()
Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow
> [ security with radios ]
I used to carry my scanner around alot at Baycon, Timecon, Sillicon, in
the Bay area. At these (what I consider mid-large) cons, 4-5k people max,
the security detail here (F.L.A.R.E.) is somewhat "officious" with their
radios, but most, if not all of them are ex-con goers. They all understand
what it is to party, have fun, and whatnot. They generally only do light
patrols, crowd control for Masquerade, tracking down guests and staffers,
peacebonding weapons, and that's really about it. parties on the party
floor are first handled by FLARE, and in general, loud rooms (non-party
floor) are "reported" in by adjoining rooms, and usu the hotel security
takes care of them.
Of course, there was always the incident of "The Hotel Rules From Hell"
last year at Timecon (?).
- Kevin Wang
...And now, for your local station identification, on the hour, every hour...
kw...@hermes.calpoly.edu or kw...@gauss.elee.calpoly.edu
---
Why I Can't Go Out With You: "I'd LOVE to, but..."
I've got a Friends of the Lowly Rutabaga meeting.
Willie Smith
>In article <1992Aug12.1...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>ssc...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve E Schendel) writes:
>> You bring up good points about walkie talkies at cons. I always have some fun
>> tuning my ham handy talkie on con security frequencies. Most of 'em get real
>> upset
>And then of course there are those of us attendees who want to use
>walkie-talkies.
Not everyone with a radio is con security, either. There are a few
hams around, Tech Crew is on 450 business band, the hotel folks
probably have radios, CB walkie talkies, cellphones, etc. Anyone know
what frequencies con security is on? :+)
Be wareful of having walkie-talkies (or as us ham radio folks call em
- HTs), you may get mistaken for someone who cares! I was chatting
with my wife at Chicon V on our 2-meter rigs when I was accosted by a
fan who was seriously upset about what I had done to 'his' weapons
policy, spoke at me at great length, refused to let me get a word in
edgewise, and only after explaining the whole sordid story to me did
he allow me to explain that I was a ham, not a con security type
looking to haul him away. Good for a chuckle anyway.
Speaking of HTs, they are a _great_ way to keep track of each other
and actually find each other again if you have differing panel
interests. This business of "I'll meet you at _place_ at exactly
_time_" is so confining. Propagation at ChiCon V was pretty spotty
(too many sub-basements), but I'm told the Orlando area is pretty
good (no basements in the swamp!)
Any other hams going to be there? Should we pick a simplex frequency
(natl' simplex on 2-M?). What's a good local repeater?
Willie Smith
wp...@pictel.com
D. 'krikket' Krick
(Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.1...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>ssc...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve E Schendel) writes:
>> You bring up good points about walkie talkies at cons. I always have some
fun
>
>> tuning my ham handy talkie on con security frequencies. Most of 'em get
>> real
>> upset
>> that someone else "unauthorized person" has access to "their"
>> communications.
>> In other words, someone else has a toy just like mine, and I wanted to be
>> the
>> big shit with the only one.
>> At Marcon here in Columbus, I was asked to take the radio away (which I
>> didnt'
>> do). Back in another city I lived, I was actually booted from the con.
>> The point is you really don't need radios at a con. If you have them, the
>> security people get an "attitude". Phones are private, realiable (no
>> batteries), and cheaper.
If you're going to use radios, expect people to occasionally crash the
frequency. Unfortunately, not all ConComs realize this. So you get radios
that can handle multiple frequencies, and have sideband capabilities. (This
goes a LONG way to block out people you don't want to hear, and from hearing
you.) To do less is simply foolish on the ConComs part...
(Then again, there was the incident where I was stupid enough to sell the
ConCom on Radio Shack 49 megahertz radios to use for security... Not only
could you not hear between floord and were therefore next to useless...)
>And then of course there are those of us attendees who want to use
>walkie-talkies. Mark and I were labeled "techno-dweebs" by a friend of
>ours who found us using walkie-talkies in the Dealers Room at Noreascon
>to converse while separated by most of the room. "Did you want a copy
>of ACCOUNTANTS OF GOR?" "No, but if they have LIBRARIANS OF GOR, I'm
>still looking for that one." Or, "Where are you? I'm by the north
>door and it's time to leave."
>
>And so on. At a small con they're not really necessary; in a worldcon
>dealers room they're practically a necessity (okay, I exaggerate.) We
>don't stay on them constantly, but having the con committee try to say
>we can't use them is a good way to annoy me. (I will make exceptions;
>if they are using walkie-talkies to do crowd-control for the Hugos or
>such, and ask me to refrain, I will.)
The last con I worked, we had a radio channel picked out, and then had to
change it TWICE because Fen decided to use that channel while going shopping,
etc... A minor annoyance, but that's about all..
D. 'krikket' Krick
Mann) writes:
>In article <krikke...@meltdown.chi.il.us>
>kri...@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>> possible! It's amazing what kind of problems can be headed off if everyone
>> knows EXACTLY what is happening...
>I'm afraid I have to disagree here (I had agreed with much of what
>you had said up till this point). For years, at Boskone we
>had an "Operations" department that included floor walkers with
>beepers and/or radios. This resulted in a number of problems:
We are allowed to disagree ya' know...
>1. The existence of an Operations group that was handling
> "security" created an "it's their job" attitude on the
> committee. Committee members would see something wrong
> and call Operations rather than ever responding themselves.
>
> When we changed Operations to Services, a big part of the
> change was telling all the committee that "Services does not
> roam the halls. You do, while you are doing other things. If
> you see something wrong, do the right thing. We can help
> if you need it. If it is bad, we can call the hotel
> security staff. But it is not our job to come by to tell
> a group of kids to stop sliding down the bannisters. You
> can tell them this."
I'll agree in saying that a psuedo-security/troubleshooting dept. is just
asking for trouble, and no dept. except for a sexurity/troubleshooting dept.
should take on those responsililities... Sometimes it does come in handy to
have your own people wandering around to prevent trouble, and be always ready
to head off disasters before they happen. At each of the last 3 cons that I've
been at a security/troubleshooting dept. has justified it's existance (in my
humble opnion) by simply being ready to take on problems, and doing so
succesfully. (IE: Who has the time to get THAT taken care of? Or to head off
the skinnydippers THIS time? Or to GEES! Now we have a 7 year old kid who's
gone missing! Search party! You get the idea.)
>2. Radios (at Boskone and at almost every other convention
> I've seen) contribute to a rather officious attitude among
> those who have them. I find it hard to keep from giggling
> every time I see one of them stop, look very serious,
> and call into their radio "Rover one to base, Rover one to
> base. All clear in the hall next to the ballroom. Over."
Yeah, this does get kina silly sometimes. But then again, the only time I've
seen this was with a group of people who do this on a regular basis, not always
within fandom, and they already knew their call-numbers, etc. by heart and were
used to looking professional... But it does get silly to see a bunch of
regular fen doing it... Usually I simply use FIRST NAMES! (Also, something
you may not realize, often the group doews not have a FCC charter to use the
bandwidth, but as long as they sound "professional" on the radio, the FCC isn't
going to bitch...)
> A related problem is that folks walking around looking for
> trouble often find it. Traditional con security often
> gets involved in things that are either not a problem or
> not OUR problem (that is, they are a hotel problem and
> are best handled by telling hotel security about them).
Personally I'd RATHER see Con Security handle some of the incidents than the
hotel. And if they don't know which incidents to turn over to the hotel, it's
time to have a LONG talk with the head of con-security and maybe even the staff
(if they help out con after con...)
>3. Radios and beepers are usually not needed. There are, after
> all, hotel phones all over the place.
They are nice to call to a set location, but not to get a hold of someone who
is wandering around and you are almost guarenteed of not knowing which room the
person is in at any given moment...
> At the last Boskone that had Operations (and lots of beepers
> and radios) (this was in the mid-eighties somewhere), the
> head of Ops tried to insist that a) Program department must
> have a beeper and 2) they had to be able to talk to the
> HEAD of program. It took the head of program that year to
> say that a) he would dump the beeper in a water glass if
> it were left in the Green Room, since the Green Room had a
> phone and program could always be reached there and b) whoever
> was running the Green Room was in charge of program. They
> wouldn't be there if they weren't capable of making reasonable
> decisions, and the program head did not have to be contacted
> directly for all program related decisions.
So the head of programming didn't want to wear a beeper.... For 99% of the
time, I can't think of a reason why the head of programming would need to wear
one anyways!!! Give the radios/beepers to those who need 'em, not as status
symbols... (Unless the ConCom happens to LIKE that kind of symbol, and they
have the money to blow on it...)
>Now that I've said this, I will agree that there are exceptions.
>Worldcons, which are spread between several hotels and a convention
>center, often can make good use of radios and beepers. However,
>each person using one should justify this use and not get one
>simply because he/she is a department head or because beepers
>have become status symbols.
And I'm just offering my opnions. Your milage may vary.
D. 'krikket' Krick
Woodcock) writes:
>I have worked security for a couple of conventions, and helped with
>several more. The cons that I have actually worked security, the security
>team consisted of at most 3 people (and some badgers). The thing
>that I found most important is that the security people don't take
>themselves too seriously. If you don't act like an officious, overbearing
>asshole most people will treat you reasonably well and even sometimes
>listen to you.
Bravo!
> The thing I have seen most cons do wrong is that they
>get many more people than are needed to do security and they don't pay
>close enough attention to getting people that are efficient and won't
>go totally power crazed.
Bravo again!
> Uniforms for cons security are completely out
>of the question. At best it makes them look like SS members and at worst
>it makes them a joke. All in all, the uniforms just make the people wearing
>them take themselves entirely too seriously.
Uniforms are a joke.... As a rule, when heading a con security/troubleshooting
group, I've told 'em to wear whatever they want! (I did get one person in a
uniform, but it fannish garb none-the-less....)
> Radios are fine, as long as
>people use them correctly. You don't need to do all that call sign
>and reporting in bull unless you are using radios that are FCC restricted
>to such things.
Correction, it depends on the frequency you are using. For all business band
radios, yuou are required to use an FCC license by law. (In practice that
isn't nessisairly the case though, as long as you are curtious on the radio,
and don't waste too much bandwidth and start interfering with other
operations...)
But even having the FCC licence, all that you MIGHT be required to broadcast
are your call-letters once an hour...
FRANK NEY
Last week I got a letter from one of the other hams attending
MagicCon. Bring your dual-bander, if you have one. The best repeater
for the complex is on 440, and the control op has agreed to give those
attending MagicCon temporary voicemail accounts on it. Trouble is, I
left the letter at the office and can't give you the poop on it right
now.
I figur that 146.52, 146.55, and 446.0 will be our simplex freqs.
Also, the Animated Babbling Quacker will be available for those making
day trips to Disneyworld (147.300+ KB4ABQ/R Disney World ARC). Last
time I was in the area the club was threatening to install a repeater
voice ID using DD's voice. B-)
Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"...I am opposed to all attempts to license or restrict the arming of
individuals...I consider such laws a violation of civil liberty,
subversive of democratic political institutions, and self-defeating
in their purpose."
- Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
D. 'krikket' Krick
(Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
>Of course, there was always the incident of "The Hotel Rules From Hell"
>last year at Timecon (?).
Please do give details! Should be interesting to compare to NaziCon!
(CapriCon '88)...
Steve E Schendel
147.43?
Stephen J. Okay
>
>In article <1992Aug12.1...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ssc...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steve E Schendel) writes:
>There was one con where I was glad we had the radios, most of the house phones
>had been trashed by con attendees who get their kicks from that sort of thing.
I think I remember that one Fuzz....was that EveCon 7 at The Stouffers?
>=At Marcon here in Columbus, I was asked to take the radio away (which I didnt'
>=do). Back in another city I lived, I was actually booted from the con.
>The only time I asked anyone to put their radios away was when they were
>transmitting on our frequencies and disrupting our work. That seemed
>reasonable.
>
>=The point is you really don't need radios at a con.
>
>I disagree, they can be a useful tool. But they have to remain a tool,
>not a status symbol or badge of power. That's not a function of what
>equipment you use, it's a function of the leadership (or lack therof)
>of your security people.
I totally agree!. Having worked con security for about 3 or 4 years now
I know I wouldn't want to not have a radio. There is no way I would depend
on the intactness of house phones for communications with the ConCom.
---Steve
--
Stephen Okay so...@mitre.org
"Welcome to the Politically Correct States of America. Please turn your mind
in to the nearest oppressed minority pressure group. It will be returned to
you once we've decided what you can think"
Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow
>In article <1992Aug14.1...@zeus.calpoly.edu>, kw...@zeus.calpoly.edu
>(Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
>
>>Of course, there was always the incident of "The Hotel Rules From Hell"
>>last year at Timecon (?).
>
>Please do give details! Should be interesting to compare to NaziCon!
>(CapriCon '88)...
The following post was posted quite awhile back.
I don't remember who (was it you, eoin?) originally posted it,
but here it is...
----------8<-----cut here-----8<----------
{Yes, I know that I cross-posted this to four newsgroups. Notice that
the Follow-up line is set to alt.fandom.cons. Please respect this.}
Well, the last Timecon is over; as usual, it was a disaster as a
convention. The concom can't be accused of doing much *wrong*, exactly,
but it was certainly one of the most boring sets of panels I've ever
seen. However, there were major problems with the hotel.
Understand this, first of all: the Red Lion Inn next to San Jose
Airport has been far better than average as a venue for SF conventions.
The staff has been around a long time, and they're used to us; the
facilities are a bit spread out for my taste but otherwise excellent;
parking is easy; generally, just a pleasant place to be.
The background for what follows was this year's Baycon. I personally
did not see any of this, nor hear about it until I went to Timecon;
nevertheless, this is what I was told (my best compilation from several
sources [this is not a complete list]):
{Late update [8/6/91]: *None* of my friends appear to have seen or
heard anything about item 1 before Timecon}
1) There were three incidents of couples literally fucking in the halls.
This means fornication in public, not just a bit of making out.
2) There was a beer keg party, explicitly against hotel rules, which got
rather out of hand. (It's a lot easier to forgive a violation of rules
if it doesn't harm anyone)
3) Someone was wearing a shirt (shorts?) that said "Fuck you" in large
letters; this would not have been a problem had the con completely taken
over the hotel, but it hadn't.
4) The CEO of "a large company" was staying there; his sensibilities
offended, he left early and wrote a strong letter of complaint (I haven't
seen it, but no doubt someone who has can describe what it said).
The result of this was that the following rules were published in public
places, and handed out to many of the people who stayed in rooms there
(this is an exact copy, including typos):
#######
Red Lion Hotel
San Jose
2050 Gateway Place, San Jose, California 95110 (408) 453-4000
Additional con rules that go into effect starting July 24, 1991
for the Time-Con Convention:
1. All room parties are to be ended and vacated by all non-
registered guest by 2:00AM. Violation of this rule will be subject
to automatic eviction from guest room and the remaining guest in
the room will be escorted off property for the rest of the
convention.
2. On the first complaint of a party room, the room will be
evicted and all the occupants will be escorted off property.
3. At anytime that any guest rooms (Other than suites) have more
than four occupants, the room will be evicted to prevent fire and
safety violations. Maximum occupancy in a guest room is four.
4. After 2AM, any room found having more occupants in the room
than it is actually registered to have will be forced to pay for
the additional guest or be evicted from the hotel.
5. Any persons found sleeping anywhere in the hotel other then a
guest room will be escorted off preperty and not be allowed back
for the rest of the Con.
6. No physical contact other then holding hands, a quick hug or
kiss will be tolerated. Any further actions will result in the
subjects being asked to leave the property for the remaining time
of the Con.
7. All non registered guest in the hotel will be asked to leave
the property between the hours of 2AM-5AM.
8. A full dress code will go into effect requiring shoes and
shirts in all public areas except the pool. All violators will be
escorted off property for the remaining time of the con. Costumes
will be permitted.
9. No pranfanity gestures will be allowed on any part of the
clothing. Violators will be escorted off property for the
remainder of the Con.
10. There is to be absolutely nothing sold out of any guest room.
Violators will escorted off property for the remainder of the
Con.
{page break}
11. The pool, jacuzzi and weight room are for registered hotel
guest only. Violators found using our guest facilities will be
escorted off property for the rest of the Con.
12. No beer kegs or home stereo systems will be allowed in any
guest rooms. This is to assure that a party will not take place
in the room that might disturb other guest.
13. Objects thrown from balconies: Intentionally dropping,
throwing or projecting objects from room balconies is automatic
room eviction and escort off-property with No Refund.
14. Safety violations: Jumping or hopping from room balconies or
any other serious safety violation will result in removal from
hotel property and possible room eviction with NO REFUND.
15. Alcohol: Any minors consuming alcohol will be escorted off-
property. If minors are observed consuming alcohol in the guest
rooms, the guest will be evicted from the room and escorted off-
property with NO REFUND.
16. Vandalism: Any guest who vandalizes the hotel property or
other guest property will be held responsible for the damages.
Outside police may be involved depending on the severity of
damages. In all circumstance, the violator will be escorted off
property.
I have read the above San Jose Red Lion In House Rules that will
go into effect on July 25, 1991. I hereby agree to all the above
rules and realize that I or members of the convention may be
evicted from the hotel and escorted off property for the remaining
time of the Con if they violate any of the above rules.
{blank space deleted}
Signature: ____________________________________ Date: ____________
#######
As you can see, the majority of these rules fall under the simple
category of "safe and sane common sense". However, items 1, 2, 3,
5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 12 could be construed in ways that limit "normal"
con activity. Moreover, the tone of the letter is rather offensive
and insulting, made worse by the numerous syntactical and semantic
errors in it.
When I saw this, my initial reaction, based primarily on rule 6, was
that it had to be a joke. However, it *was* on Red Lion letterhead,
and I decided that it had to be checked out.
I went to see the General Manager, who told me (in no particular order):
A) that the hotel had indeed posted the previous letter.
B) the background I mentioned at the beginning of this post.
C) that he had been on vacation until just before Timecon, and had simply
passed it on when it appeared in the huge pile on his desk.
D) that the Red Lion Inn had had a continuous relationship with SF
conventions during his five years as manager that he was proud of.
E) that he was sorry that this whole situation was handled so poorly
(he apologized profusely), and that there was going to be a letter in
the afternoon update.
F) that he had had to evict already two rooms containing minors for
consuming alcohol and drugs, jumping across balconies.
I suggested that, in addition, he also post the apology in various public
places. This suggestion was not acted upon, but here is the letter that
appeared in Timecon Update 4 (Saturday evening, approximately 8 hours
after my conversation, *long* after complaints started registering):
#######
Received from Red Lion Executive Offices
Dear Timecon Fans,
During the past two days I have had an opportunity to visit with several
of you who have taken exception to the welcome letter and convention
policy that was presented at check-in.
Many of you have been insulted and confused by this and questioned
Red Lions welcome. On behalf of our entire team, please accept our
apology for this misinterpretation. It was our intent to simply focus
on the safety and comfort of all of our guests including Timecon.
Unfortunately, over the years a select few individuals have conducted
themselves in a fashion that has not been endorsed by the Con attendees,
other hotel quests, and of course, the hotel.
We have had the plesure to host a number of Cons in the past and are
proud of the relationship we have maintained with the attendees and the
committee members. It is our goal to continue this relationship in the
future and provide all of you with a excellent experience and stay.
Please accept my best wishes for a great Con and do not hesitate to
contact myself, Chris Ferrante, or our night manager Fred Trejo if we
can be of assistance.
Sincerely,
Norval Nelson
#######
By the time this came out, though, the damage had been done. Rule 6, in
particular, was a prime target. This Timecon was one of the most
physically affectionate cons I've ever been to. <grin> Many people
wore buttons that said "SIX OFFENDER", I wore a pair that said
"I BREAK RULE 6" and "PROMISCUOUS HUGGER", and one person wore one that
said "666 -- Menage a trois".
I heard that the posted rules were supposedly the standard house rules.
I find this difficult to believe, except in a very general sense; no
one can afford to look as silly as this letter made them look.
I'll just say that I personally believe that it was "just" a fuck-up
in internal communication that caused this to be posted. I don't
think the person who actually wrote this was a long-term employee of
Red Lion San Jose -- no one who knew anything about cons could have
written that.
There was some additional additional anonymous commentary circulated
through the con. This one is the "third page" of the rules:
#######
(Additional rules)
17. All pool animals must be leashed/muzzled or in carriers.
18. No throwing sex objects off balcony.
19. No obscene behavior with inflatable animals.
20. No levitation.
21. No more than 6 astral bodies in any room (except main lobby).
22. No new clothes allowed. All clothes must be _worn._ If shirt & shoes
are thoroughly worn, pants are optional.
23. Any clothing (excluding optional pants) caught making pranfane gestures
will be removed from its wearer and evicted. (Anyone able to define
"pranfane" gets a cigar.)
24. Physical contact of any duration between humans and extraterrestrials
is (of course) permitted, providing all parties are above the age of
consent and are not in direct violation of the Prime Directive.
25. On second complaint regarding parties, perpetrators will be thrown to
the Red Lions. (Assuming parties were able to continue party elsewhere
after their room was evicted.)
26. Anyone attempting to sell the beds, television, or other furnishings
from the guest rooms will be keelhauled. (Unless a suitable profit
was made and funds shared with appropriate authorities!)
27. Jumping or hopping _onto_ balconies from lower levels is strictly
prohibited without jumping or hopping license. (Jumping or hopping
to conclusions is, of course, permitted.)
28. If outside police are needed to assist with (indoor) vandalism, our
resident vandals will be sent to remedial vandalism classes at Hun &
Visigoth Voc Ed Center.
29. Any persons whose minds are wandering in galaxies far, far away
(except while sleeping in guest rooms) will have their fantasies
rudely shattered by the Fannish Inquisition.
30. Didn't expect the Fannish Inquisition, did you??
#######
And this is another sheet (handwritten):
#######
Time Con '91'
We interrupt this convention with a special bulletin. Timecon is now
under marshall law. All constitutional rights have been suspended.
_Stay_in_your_room_. Do not attempt to contact loved ones, insurance
agents or attournies. _SHUT_UP_!! Do not attempt to think or depression
may occur _STAY_IN_YOUR_ROOMS_! Curfew is in effect at 2:00 AM sharp!
Anyone caught outside of their subdivision sector after curfew _WILL_
_BE_SHOT_! _DO_NOT_PANIC_! _REMAIN_CALM_! Your security guard will be
by to collect urine samples in the morning. Anyone caught interfering
with the collection of urine samples _WILL_BE_SHOT_! _STAY_IN_YOUR_
_ROOMS_! _REMAIN_CALM_! The number one enemies of puritanism are
questions. Red Lion Inn security is more important than individual will.
All video broadcasts will proceed as planned. No more than four people
may gather together for conversation or otherwise without special
permission from Red Lion Inn security. Follow only the rules prescribed
by security personnel or Flare.
_SHUT_UP_!
_BE_HAPPY_! Obey all orders without question. The comfort you've
demanded is now mandatory. Be happy, at last everything is done for you.
#######
Looking back, I see a couple of important points:
1) The concom for any particular con needs to find out (and possibly
negotiate) the hotel rules and communicate them to the attendees. We fen
need to expend some effort at self-policing -- don't just let Flare
handle things.
2) If you see something you don't like, react to it, but don't
*over*react. Most of the people at Timecon made a point of overtly
breaking as many of the rules as they could, while still staying within
the boundaries of good taste and common sense.
For those of you who attended Timecon and still feel somewhat outraged,
I suggest you write a letter to the Red Lion management, and send a
copy to Conventions of Time (whatever their address is).
I've deliberately avoided turning this into an emotional report,
restricting myself mostly to the facts. I think it's more important
to look to the future, and see what can be done to prevent similar
incidents from occurring.
--
--- Aahz (aka Dan Bernstein)
@netcom.com
Be alert -- the world needs more lerts.
Carl P. Zwanzig
Here's my $.02
Operations/security folk need them. There's a reason that the hotel security
carry radios, in that you don't always have a phone when you need one.
Technicians need them. Trying to coordinate a large installation by voice
is difficult, and by phone is impossible.
Keeping the hotel honest. At a recent convention, I casually asked a hotel
electrician for their frequency, which he gave me. I later tuned my
commercial HT to that and left it in the room to listen to when I was there.
Later that evening, I was in the room talking with friends, and heard the
a conversation between the hotel security person and the front desk clerk.
"I wonder what they're doing arround the pool" (an open area) "They must
be sacrificing a virgin, or something". I called the front desk on the
phone, and, without identifying myself, disagreed with them (the people
were setting up to sing part of Handel's Massiah. I was also rudely grilled
for my name and room number. Over the radio,
"Better watch what you say, someone's listening to OUR channel"
Later that evening, the chair of the convention and I had a talk with the
manager on duty, and the next morning a talk with the GM of the hotel,
regarding this breach of professionalism and etiquite. I believe that if
I hadn't heard that conversation, the service that we received from the hotel
would not have been up to the level that other patrons get, and that annoys
me.
Radio is a broadcast medium. Anyone can listen to it, as long
as they don't devulge the information to others (communications act of 1934).
In commercial radio, call signs are not used with every transmission. Also,
on the itinerent frequencies, ALL users of that freq MUST attempt to avoid
interfering with other registered users. I can use the same channel for
talking to my friends (providing that I have a purpose commiserate with my
license) as the con security and the construction site down the road.
It can be a great tool, as long as it's not abused, and I count unlicensed
used as abuse.
Carl Zwanzig
zb...@digex.com
WNRL354 commercial
Jim Mann
> Additional con rules that go into effect starting July 24, 1991
> for the Time-Con Convention:
Later in the post Kevin says this, had the following paragraph,
which I move up front just to make commenting on the rules
a bit easier:
> As you can see, the majority of these rules fall under the simple
> category of "safe and sane common sense". However, items 1, 2, 3,
> 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 12 could be construed in ways that limit
"normal"
> con activity. Moreover, the tone of the letter is rather offensive
> and insulting, made worse by the numerous syntactical and semantic
> errors in it.
>
> 1. All room parties are to be ended and vacated by all non-
> registered guest by 2:00AM. Violation of this rule will be subject
> to automatic eviction from guest room and the remaining guest in
> the room will be escorted off property for the rest of the
> convention.
Sounds a tad harsh, unless "room party" means "open, loud room
party." I have no problem with the hotel saying that a 2am they
want the doors closed and the noise toned down so that their other
guests can sleep.
>
> 2. On the first complaint of a party room, the room will be
> evicted and all the occupants will be escorted off property.
Agreed, this is too harsh. However, if you replace first with
second, I don't have too much of a problem with it.
>
> 3. At anytime that any guest rooms (Other than suites) have
more
> than four occupants, the room will be evicted to prevent fire and
> safety violations. Maximum occupancy in a guest room is four.
I don't think this rule means visitors as in folks dropping
by during parties. This means that their biggest room is a quad,
and they don't want 10 people crashing there. This is a rule
at all hotels. Yes, fans break this rule once in a while (I did
myself a few times), but I see nothing wrong with the hotel
saying: "If you pay for a quad, 4 people can sleep in the room, not
10."
>
> 4. After 2AM, any room found having more occupants in the room
> than it is actually registered to have will be forced to pay for
> the additional guest or be evicted from the hotel.
This seems like an elaboration on number 3.
>
> 5. Any persons found sleeping anywhere in the hotel other then
a
> guest room will be escorted off preperty and not be allowed back
> for the rest of the Con.
Why is this unreasonable? I used to get annoyed at Disclaves where
you couldn't even go sit in the lobby in the morning because fans
were sleeping on the couches. The hotel makes money selling
sleeping rooms. It is not at all unreasonable for them to say:
"you want to sleep here? Then buy a room, don't sleep in the halls."
>
> 6. No physical contact other then holding hands, a quick hug or
> kiss will be tolerated. Any further actions will result in the
> subjects being asked to leave the property for the remaining time
> of the Con.
Sounds like an overreaction. However, they need to replace it
with a rule that does rule out sex or sexual foreplay in the
halls. It's a shame they any rule like this, but some folks
don't have common sense and thus need to be told that screwing
in the halls is bad manners. But certainly trying to forbid
hugging is nonsense.
>
> 7. All non registered guest in the hotel will be asked to leave
> the property between the hours of 2AM-5AM.
>
> 8. A full dress code will go into effect requiring shoes and
> shirts in all public areas except the pool. All violators will be
> escorted off property for the remaining time of the con. Costumes
> will be permitted.
All public areas is too much, but I'd have no problem with this
rule applying to restaurants and lobby.
>
> 9. No pranfanity gestures will be allowed on any part of the
> clothing. Violators will be escorted off property for the
> remainder of the Con.
Sounds like they were saying they didn't want the "Fuck you"
t-shirts in their hotel. Again, this sounds reasonable to
me. It offends a number of their guests. (But then again,
I've never understood why someone would want to wear something
whose main purpose is to try to offend someone else.)
>
> 10. There is to be absolutely nothing sold out of any guest
room.
> Violators will escorted off property for the remainder of the
> Con.
> 11. The pool, jacuzzi and weight room are for registered hotel
> guest only. Violators found using our guest facilities will be
> escorted off property for the rest of the Con.
>
> 12. No beer kegs or home stereo systems will be allowed in any
> guest rooms. This is to assure that a party will not take place
> in the room that might disturb other guest.
>
Most hotels don't allow alcohol of any sort to be brought to the
rooms. Most look the other way when what's involved is a few
six packs of beer or a bottle or two. Kegs seem rather
excessive. Also, I have a button that says "Boom Boxes Are
Weapons" so I can sympathize with the latter rule, though
think it should just say "stereo systems played loudly (and
we will define what we think is loud) are not permitted."
> 13. Objects thrown from balconies: Intentionally dropping,
> throwing or projecting objects from room balconies is automatic
> room eviction and escort off-property with No Refund.
>
> 14. Safety violations: Jumping or hopping from room balconies
or
> any other serious safety violation will result in removal from
> hotel property and possible room eviction with NO REFUND.
>
> 15. Alcohol: Any minors consuming alcohol will be escorted
off-
> property. If minors are observed consuming alcohol in the guest
> rooms, the guest will be evicted from the room and escorted off-
> property with NO REFUND.
>
> 16. Vandalism: Any guest who vandalizes the hotel property or
> other guest property will be held responsible for the damages.
> Outside police may be involved depending on the severity of
> damages. In all circumstance, the violator will be escorted off
> property.
>
> When I saw this, my initial reaction, based primarily on rule 6,
was
> that it had to be a joke. However, it *was* on Red Lion
letterhead,
> and I decided that it had to be checked out.
Given that you mentioned that they were reacting to people screwing
in the hallways, I don't know why you were surprised. Granted it's
an overreaction, but most people (hotels included) have a bad
habit of overreacting to try to fix problems.
>
> Looking back, I see a couple of important points:
>
> 1) The concom for any particular con needs to find out (and
possibly
> negotiate) the hotel rules and communicate them to the attendees.
We fen
> need to expend some effort at self-policing -- don't just let Flare
> handle things.
>
> 2) If you see something you don't like, react to it, but don't
> *over*react. Most of the people at Timecon made a point of overtly
> breaking as many of the rules as they could, while still staying
within
> the boundaries of good taste and common sense.
What the concom needs to do in a case like this is review a letter
like this with the hotel before the hotel gives it out (if they
can). Then they can ask questions like "Why rule 6?" and respond
with things like "We can see what you're getting at, but people
will react poorly to the phrasing. How about _______."
>
> For those of you who attended Timecon and still feel somewhat
outraged,
> I suggest you write a letter to the Red Lion management, and send a
> copy to Conventions of Time (whatever their address is).
>
> I've deliberately avoided turning this into an emotional report,
> restricting myself mostly to the facts. I think it's more
important
> to look to the future, and see what can be done to prevent similar
> incidents from occurring.
>
Easy. If people would, by and large, act with courtesy
and common sense (which means not having sex in the halls,
not blasting boom boxes in public areas or late at night,
not sleeping in the hallways, etc.), the hotels MOST OF THE
TIME will respond with courtesy. I say "most of the time"
because some hotels are nasty no matter what you do. The only
solution in such cases is to find a better hotel.
FRANK NEY
Hi Carl,
All true and correct, per the various FCC regs published.
Unfortunately, there are some concoms who can't read or can't be
bothered to read them.
One example that *really* bugs me: a Start-Trek con in Maryland
(SHORELEAVE) published this rule in their progam book:
"Anyone interfering with convention radios will be evicted with no
refund."
Legally shaky, considering they were using Part 15 headsets on
49.830MHz.
I wonder what the judge would say if the concom decided my FT-470 was
interfering with their toy radios?
And while I'm on the subject, there are a few hucksters that have
decided they can't be bothered, and have bought 2m ham HT from Radio
Shack and are using them simplex in the satellite subband. I report
them every time I see them.
Frank Ney Ham N4ZHG Commercial WNYG547
John F. Snyder
-> In rec.arts.sf.fandom kri...@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
-> >In article <1992Aug14.1...@zeus.calpoly.edu>, kw...@zeus.calpoly.ed
-> >(Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
-> >
-> >>Of course, there was always the incident of "The Hotel Rules From Hell"
-> >>last year at Timecon (?).
-> >
-> >Please do give details! Should be interesting to compare to NaziCon!
-> >(CapriCon '88)...
->
-> The following post was posted quite awhile back.
-> I don't remember who (was it you, eoin?) originally posted it,
-> but here it is...
<<TimeCon rules deleted>>
If you had the end of the posting you would have noticed that
it was originally posted by Aa...@netcom.com.
Not directly tied to that incident. This years convention (renamed
ConFused, for varied and confusing reasons, thus the name change.
Confused?) was the last convention to put on by Conventions of Time, Ltd.
So unless someone with deep pockets wants to run it, TimeCon/ConFused
is a dead convention, it has gone to meet it maker, it is deceased.
eo...@xocolatl.com | Practice Random Kindness /~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /
GEnie: J.Snyder18 | and < D A R W I N ><
CI$: 70313,3111 | Senseless Acts of Beauty \_____________/ \
Prodigy: NOT!!!! | _l _l _l _l
--------------------+ bounces? Try: eo...@eoin.net.netcom.com
D. 'krikket' Krick
(Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
>The following post was posted quite awhile back.
>I don't remember who (was it you, eoin?) originally posted it,
>but here it is...
This letter was also sent to me via Email. (WITH the header)... So I can say
that it was "aa...@netcom.COM (Mean Green Washing Machine)" (Besides the user
also signed the message with his Net Address!!!)
>----------8<-----cut here-----8<----------
<Massive amounts of the letter deleted>
>(Additional rules)
>
>17. All pool animals must be leashed/muzzled or in carriers.
>
>18. No throwing sex objects off balcony.
>
>19. No obscene behavior with inflatable animals.
>
>20. No levitation.
>
>21. No more than 6 astral bodies in any room (except main lobby).
>
>22. No new clothes allowed. All clothes must be _worn._ If shirt & shoes
> are thoroughly worn, pants are optional.
>
>23. Any clothing (excluding optional pants) caught making pranfane gestures
> will be removed from its wearer and evicted. (Anyone able to define
> "pranfane" gets a cigar.)
>
>24. Physical contact of any duration between humans and extraterrestrials
> is (of course) permitted, providing all parties are above the age of
> consent and are not in direct violation of the Prime Directive.
>
>25. On second complaint regarding parties, perpetrators will be thrown to
> the Red Lions. (Assuming parties were able to continue party elsewhere
> after their room was evicted.)
>
>26. Anyone attempting to sell the beds, television, or other furnishings
> from the guest rooms will be keelhauled. (Unless a suitable profit
> was made and funds shared with appropriate authorities!)
This actually happened at a Chicagoland area Con, if my understanding is
correct... The art-to-be-auctioned was kept in a motel room, and somone on the
ConCom made the STUPID mistake of thinking that the art hanging on the wall was
also to be auctioned, not part of the rooms furnishings... I'm told that the
hotel print made a nice profit on the auction-floor as well...
Has anyone else noticed that this is an almost-direct ripoff of a bit that
Jello Biafra does on one of his spoken albums?
Mean Green Dancing Machine
>In article <1992Aug19.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu>, kw...@zeus.calpoly.edu
>(Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
>>The following post was posted quite awhile back.
>>I don't remember who (was it you, eoin?) originally posted it,
>>but here it is...
>
>This letter was also sent to me via Email. (WITH the header)... So I can say
>that it was "aa...@netcom.COM (Mean Green Washing Machine)" (Besides the user
>also signed the message with his Net Address!!!)
Hmph. I resemble that remark.
--
--- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
@netcom.com
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
"I 'got a life'. Now what?"
Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow
>kw...@zeus.calpoly.edu (Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
>
>-> In rec.arts.sf.fandom kri...@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
>-> The following post was posted quite awhile back.
>-> I don't remember who (was it you, eoin?) originally posted it,
>-> but here it is...
>
><<TimeCon rules deleted>>
>
>If you had the end of the posting you would have noticed that
>it was originally posted by Aa...@netcom.com.
so it was 8> <SHEEPISH GRIN>
>Not directly tied to that incident. This years convention (renamed
>ConFused, for varied and confusing reasons, thus the name change.
>Confused?) was the last convention to put on by Conventions of Time, Ltd.
>So unless someone with deep pockets wants to run it, TimeCon/ConFused
>is a dead convention, it has gone to meet it maker, it is deceased.
the story I've heard (quite very reliable: registration head) was that
TimeCon was a "trademarked" name. The name needs to be re-registered every
couple of years (10?) and it expired sometime last year. The person who
used to hold the trademark didn't re-register it, so someone else jumped in
and claimed it. They wanted Conventions of Time to pay 10,000 some odd
dollars JUST so the con could be called "TimeCon" Somewhere else along the
line, he gave up, and re-offered full rights for a (gosh darn) whole dollar.
or was it someone that bought the TM from him?
I forget already, but that's reasonably close to the story...
- Kevin Wang
...And now, for your local station identification, on the hour, every hour...
kw...@hermes.calpoly.edu or kw...@gauss.elee.calpoly.edu
---
MURPHY'S LAWS OF COMBAT
20. Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder.
Aahzmandius
>
>>Not directly tied to that incident. This years convention (renamed
>>ConFused, for varied and confusing reasons, thus the name change.
>>Confused?) was the last convention to put on by Conventions of Time, Ltd.
>>So unless someone with deep pockets wants to run it, TimeCon/ConFused
>>is a dead convention, it has gone to meet it maker, it is deceased.
>
>the story I've heard (quite very reliable: registration head) was that
>TimeCon was a "trademarked" name. The name needs to be re-registered every
>couple of years (10?) and it expired sometime last year. The person who
>used to hold the trademark didn't re-register it, so someone else jumped in
>and claimed it. They wanted Conventions of Time to pay 10,000 some odd
>dollars JUST so the con could be called "TimeCon" Somewhere else along the
>line, he gave up, and re-offered full rights for a (gosh darn) whole dollar.
>or was it someone that bought the TM from him?
>
>I forget already, but that's reasonably close to the story...
Not really. Got the events right, but not the sequence:
The same person has held rights to "TimeCon" for several years, but this
year wanted $10k to allow the con to use the name. The concom refused,
obviously, and selected the name "ConFused" instead (with a stop at
"ConFusion" along the way). About two months before the con, Dave
Medinnus (sp?) was doing a name search for his new bookstore (geez, my
memory's really fading, can't remember the name of that, either), and
decided to look up "TimeCon". He discovered that it had expired,
snapped up the rights, and offered it to the concom for $10 (or maybe it
was even $1 ;-).
By that point, though, too much literature had been printed with
"ConFused", so that name was kept. Now, of course, the convention (by
whatever name) is *dead*. End of story.
--
--- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
@netcom.com
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
So much Astroglide. So little time.
Some call me...Drew
>So unless someone with deep pockets wants to run it, TimeCon/ConFused
>is a dead convention, it has gone to meet it maker, it is deceased.
...this is an ex-con!
Well, maybe not.
--
"Me and you, a two man crew,
side by side we are united,
we will never be divided...."
Au revoir, mon cherie.
Aahzmandius
>In article <1992Aug19.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu>
>kw...@zeus.calpoly.edu (Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
>> Additional con rules that go into effect starting July 24, 1991
>> for the Time-Con Convention:
>
>Later in the post Kevin says this, had the following paragraph,
>which I move up front just to make commenting on the rules
>a bit easier:
>
>> As you can see, the majority of these rules fall under the simple
>> category of "safe and sane common sense". However, items 1, 2, 3,
>> 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 12 could be construed in ways that limit
>"normal"
>> con activity. Moreover, the tone of the letter is rather offensive
>> and insulting, made worse by the numerous syntactical and semantic
>> errors in it.
I don't really have time to do your post justice, but I have to wonder
why you made your point-by-point rebuttal. The point to be made here is
that the Red Lion's rules were worse than the sum of the individual
parts.
>Given that you mentioned that they were reacting to people screwing
>in the hallways, I don't know why you were surprised. Granted it's
>an overreaction, but most people (hotels included) have a bad
>habit of overreacting to try to fix problems.
As the original post said (and you are omitting), neither I nor anyone
else I talked to had heard about any screwing at Baycon. I have no
reason to doubt the truth of what the manager told me; nevertheless, I
*am* surprised that no one seems to have heard about it before these
infamous rules were distributed at Timecon.
>What the concom needs to do in a case like this is review a letter
>like this with the hotel before the hotel gives it out (if they
>can). Then they can ask questions like "Why rule 6?" and respond
>with things like "We can see what you're getting at, but people
>will react poorly to the phrasing. How about _______."
I keep hearing conflicting reports on this one. My personal opinion is
that the hotel liaison was asleep on the job.
LaMont Jones
: In article <56...@transfer.stratus.com> jm...@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
: >In article <1992Aug19.0...@zeus.calpoly.edu>
: >kw...@zeus.calpoly.edu (Kevin Wang aka The Scarecrow) writes:
: >Given that you mentioned that they were reacting to people screwing
: >in the hallways, I don't know why you were surprised. Granted it's
: >an overreaction, but most people (hotels included) have a bad
: >habit of overreacting to try to fix problems.
:
: As the original post said (and you are omitting), neither I nor anyone
: else I talked to had heard about any screwing at Baycon. I have no
: reason to doubt the truth of what the manager told me; nevertheless, I
: *am* surprised that no one seems to have heard about it before these
: infamous rules were distributed at Timecon.
There are generally stories circulating from reliable sources of incidents
of this nature at nearly every convention I have been to. Some people have
urges, and don't have money for a room... The incidents usually don't get
publcized, probably for fear of giving people ideas?
: >What the concom needs to do in a case like this is review a letter
: >like this with the hotel before the hotel gives it out (if they
: >can). Then they can ask questions like "Why rule 6?" and respond
: >with things like "We can see what you're getting at, but people
: >will react poorly to the phrasing. How about _______."
: I keep hearing conflicting reports on this one. My personal opinion is
: that the hotel liaison was asleep on the job.
The rules were a rough draft that should never have been distributed. I
don't remember if this was an official statement of the hotel, but several
members of the senior management either expressed or agreed with it.
The good side was that they got through to the crowd that needed them.
The bad side is they pissed off the rest of us. I'll pass on critiquing
the concom's handling of the situation. I was just there throwing a
reasonably well behaved room party for Silicon 91. You probably wouldn't
be surprised to learn that the nearly constant topic of discussion was
a certain set of rules...
lamont
Seth Breidbart
(Jim Mann) writes:
>> 2. On the first complaint of a party room, the room will be
>> evicted and all the occupants will be escorted off property.
>
>Agreed, this is too harsh. However, if you replace first with
>second, I don't have too much of a problem with it.
Closing the party on the second complaint is reasonable. Evicting the
occupants is not, and is probably illegal.
>> 3. At anytime that any guest rooms (Other than suites) have
>more
>> than four occupants, the room will be evicted to prevent fire and
>> safety violations. Maximum occupancy in a guest room is four.
>
>I don't think this rule means visitors as in folks dropping
>by during parties. This means that their biggest room is a quad,
>and they don't want 10 people crashing there. This is a rule
>at all hotels.
What do you think the signs in the ballrooms that say "Occupancy by
more than 350 people prohibited by law" mean?
>> 4. After 2AM, any room found having more occupants in the room
>> than it is actually registered to have will be forced to pay for
>> the additional guest or be evicted from the hotel.
>
>This seems like an elaboration on number 3.
No, number 3 applied to more than 4 people physically present "at any
time"; this prohibits (e.g.) 2 people in a single.
>Sounds like an overreaction. However, they need to replace it
>with a rule that does rule out sex or sexual foreplay in the
>halls.
Define "sexual foreplay". And don't try to tell me "I know it when I
see it." You don't. People are weird. And fans are weirder.
> (But then again,
>I've never understood why someone would want to wear something
>whose main purpose is to try to offend someone else.)
I remember the LACon II t-shirt with the quotes from 1984 on the back
("War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Shit is
Shinola.")
>> 11. The pool, jacuzzi and weight room are for registered hotel
>> guest only. Violators found using our guest facilities will be
>> escorted off property for the rest of the Con.
Notice that you must wear shoes and shirt in the jacuzzi. (Oops, I
deleted that paragraph. Well, it said anyplace other than the pool.)
Seth se...@fid.morgan.com