What has it got in it's pocketses?
Alan Woodford
in their pockets?
Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
leave the house.
Here's my list:
3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
3 MP3 players
2 Mobile phones
1 Sat Nav
1 PDA
1 Leatherman
3 Spare batteries
3 USB cables
1 Phone adapter cable
1 Torch
150ish GB of storage
2 Fountain pens
Plus wallet and keys.
That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
Alan Woodford
The Greying Lensman!
netcat
al...@bortas.demon.co.uk says...
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
> in their pockets?
>
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
> leave the house.
The shopping list, if I have one. And the memory stick, if this is where
I last left it. Also, a spare ponytail tie, especially if I'm going
swimming. I put nothing else in my pockets when I leave the house. When
I'm walking around the office, I'm liable to have the door cards in
them, and during the course of the day, I'll probably stuff a kleenex or
two in them.
> Here's my list:
>
> 3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
Are any of these incorporated into the phones you mention?
If not, why are you carrying 3 different cameras instead of the most
capable one? Ditto for the mp3 players and phones themselves. I can
somewhat understand carrying a compact and a SLR at the same time but no
one could stuff a SLR into their pocket.
rgds,
netcat
cryptoguy
Like netcat, I wonder if some of those devices are integrated, as in
camera/phone/mp3 player.
For me:
Back right: Grossly obese wallet. Really need to slim it down. Can't
be picked easily (even by me!).
Back left: Nothing much. Short term paper items - movie tickets, etc.
Front left: phone (currently razr, includes camera) and pda/mp3
player. I'd like to integrate those, get a good smartphone. Maybe this
Christmas.
Front right: Change, small bills, sometimes a pen, keychain. The
keychain includes car remote, house/work/lodge/guncase keys and 2 8GB
flash drives (needs upgrading).
That's about it, but I should note that I'm normally travelling with
my car, which carries a bunch more stuff, and is usually reasonably
handy.
pt
Paul Dormer
al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>
> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
What, no book/reading material?
I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than a quick
walk round the local shops.
Alan Woodford
I think most people would complain if I was reading while driving :-)
But there are usually a couple of e-books of some sort included, even
if the PDA is not much good for reading them.
David V. Loewe, Jr
<al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>in their pockets?
>
>Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>leave the house.
>
>Here's my list:
>
>3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
>3 MP3 players
>2 Mobile phones
>1 Sat Nav
>1 PDA
>1 Leatherman
>3 Spare batteries
>3 USB cables
>1 Phone adapter cable
>1 Torch
Doesn't that get quite hot? ;-)
>150ish GB of storage
>2 Fountain pens
>
>Plus wallet and keys.
>
>That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
That would depend on how many pockets you are using.
For example, if you are wearing carpenter's (or painter's) pants and a
shirt with pockets over both sides of the chest, then you might not be
too burdened. Wearing a no pockets shirt and sweats, you might well be.
My personal list:
Wallet
2 sets keys
change
--
"...you know, it seems to me you suffer from the problem of
wanting a tailored fit in an off the rack world."
Dennis Juds
Alan Woodford
<treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 30, 9:10�am, Alan Woodford <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>> in their pockets?
>>
>> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>> leave the house.
>>
>> Here's my list:
>>
>> 3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
>> 3 MP3 players
>> 2 Mobile phones
>> 1 Sat Nav
>> 1 PDA
>> 1 Leatherman
>> 3 Spare batteries
>> 3 USB cables
>> 1 Phone adapter cable
>> 1 Torch
>> 150ish GB of storage
>> 2 Fountain pens
>>
>> Plus wallet and keys.
>>
>> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>
>Like netcat, I wonder if some of those devices are integrated, as in
>camera/phone/mp3 player.
>
It's a fair cop, guv'nor!
There is an iPod Classic for mp3s; an HP iPAQ with a crap camera, an
mp3 player and Sat Nav, with Europe and North America maps that is
also a mobile phone; a Nokia 6233 that plays mp3s and has a better
camera than the iPAQ; and a Canon A590 compact camera.
Oh, and there is a small scientific calculator I forgot about, too.
As far as netcat's comment about SLR cameras goes, I took a backpack
full of SLR gear to worldcon, as my carry-on luggage, along with all
the other kit above :-)
>For me:
>Back right: Grossly obese wallet. Really need to slim it down. Can't
>be picked easily (even by me!).
>
>Back left: Nothing much. Short term paper items - movie tickets, etc.
>
>Front left: phone (currently razr, includes camera) and pda/mp3
>player. I'd like to integrate those, get a good smartphone. Maybe this
>Christmas.
>
>Front right: Change, small bills, sometimes a pen, keychain. The
>keychain includes car remote, house/work/lodge/guncase keys and 2 8GB
>flash drives (needs upgrading).
>
>That's about it, but I should note that I'm normally travelling with
>my car, which carries a bunch more stuff, and is usually reasonably
>handy.
>
I know what you mean!
cryptoguy
> In article <6pole5d0lt835p1dp2j5fdrdga4hb60...@4ax.com>,
>
> al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>
> > That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>
> What, no book/reading material?
>
> I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than a quick
> walk round the local shops.
The PDA has a bookreader, and I carry quite a bit or literature with
me. Current reading: Jurgen, by James Branch Cabell.
pt
Philip Chee
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
> in their pockets?
>
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
> leave the house.
I wonder what sort of stuff Bruce Wayne picks up without thinking
whenever he leaves the Batcave.
On the other hand we all know what MacGyver carries in his pockets don't we?
Phil
--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]I can't be wrong; my modem is error-correcting.
* TagZilla 0.066.6
Alan Woodford
<dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:10:35 +0000, Alan Woodford
><al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>>in their pockets?
>>
>>Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>>leave the house.
>>
>>Here's my list:
>>
>>3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
>>3 MP3 players
>>2 Mobile phones
>>1 Sat Nav
>>1 PDA
>>1 Leatherman
>>3 Spare batteries
>>3 USB cables
>>1 Phone adapter cable
>>1 Torch
>
>Doesn't that get quite hot? ;-)
>
Two countries, divided by a common language :-p
The torch is a Maglite Solitaire on my keyring.
>>150ish GB of storage
>>2 Fountain pens
>>
>>Plus wallet and keys.
>>
>>That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>
>That would depend on how many pockets you are using.
>
>For example, if you are wearing carpenter's (or painter's) pants and a
>shirt with pockets over both sides of the chest, then you might not be
>too burdened. Wearing a no pockets shirt and sweats, you might well be.
>
A sleeveless jacket with lots of pockets.
>My personal list:
>
>Wallet
>2 sets keys
>change
But what happens if.... :-)
Paul Dormer
al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>
> >What, no book/reading material?
> >
> >I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than
> >a quick walk round the local shops.
>
> I think most people would complain if I was reading while driving
> :-)
What I've wanted to know is those people who listen to music whilst
driving, how do they follow the score?
Jette Goldie
Uh, that would be considered too much junk in my - rather sizeable -
handbag.
the only thing that goes in my jacket/coat pocket is my bus-pass.
Sometimes my house or car keys, but only for short periods.
--
Jette Goldie
jette....@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfette/
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)
David Friedman
"David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> My personal list:
>
> Wallet
> 2 sets keys
> change
Mine:
Wallet
2 sets keys, one of which has a tiny flashlight and a tiny pill container
small knife
cell phone
change
--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.
David Friedman
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
He listed a PDA and 2 mobile phones, so could be carrying quite a lot of
book/reading material. My phone currently has at least fifteen books,
plus parts of others, on it.
And that's not counting the much larger number I could access off the
net.
David Friedman
<a7e84028-14bf-4d43...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oddly enough, that's one of the books on my cell phone, although I'm not
reading it currently.
David Friedman
netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> I can
> somewhat understand carrying a compact and a SLR at the same time but no
> one could stuff a SLR into their pocket.
Long ago, one of the companies made a 110 format SLR kit (I think it was
110), and I'm pretty sure the camera was small enough to stuff into a
pocket.
Lowell Gilbert
The same way as people who listen to sports while driving.
David V. Loewe, Jr
<al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>>al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>>
>>> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>>
>>What, no book/reading material?
>>
>>I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than a quick
>>walk round the local shops.
>
>I think most people would complain if I was reading while driving :-)
>
>But there are usually a couple of e-books of some sort included, even
>if the PDA is not much good for reading them.
Speaking of, how many of you have an e-book reader? If you do, which
one is it (are they)? Do you like it? Please give us a review.
--
"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind"
Hosea 8:7
David V. Loewe, Jr
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>
>> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>
>What, no book/reading material?
>
>I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than a quick
>walk round the local shops.
You've either got much bigger pockets or much smaller books than I do.
--
"Earth is the cradle of human kind, but one cannot live in a cradle
forever."
- Konstantin Tsiokovsky
Mike Van Pelt
Alan Woodford <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>in their pockets?
>Here's my list:
[hardware store inventory deleted]
Holy utility belts, Batman!
Hm...
Billfold
Keys with Photon light
"Smart key" for car in separate pocket
Chapstick
Swiss Army Knife with "Sendmail" logo
2GB Sandisk USB drive
Palm Treo
some change
--
Mike Van Pelt "If they're going to talk about
mvp.at.calweb.com Camelot, then we get to talk about
KE6BVH The Lady in the Lake." - ?
Paul Dormer
dave...@charter.net (David V. Loewe, Jr) wrote:
>
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>
> >al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
> >
> >> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
> >
> >What, no book/reading material?
> >
> >I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than
> >a quick walk round the local shops.
>
> You've either got much bigger pockets or much smaller books than I
> do.
A standard paperback book will easily fit in a jacket pocket. A couple
of weeks ago, I had no trouble fitting a hardback of Philip K. Dick's The
Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch in my pocket when going to the opera.
rksh...@rosettacondot.com
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>
>>al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>>
>>> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>>
>>What, no book/reading material?
>>
>>I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than a quick
>>walk round the local shops.
>
> You've either got much bigger pockets or much smaller books than I do.
They fit OK in the pockets of my jeans unless the author is, or was unduly
influenced by, Robert Jordan and as long as I'm walking rather than
sitting.
Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com
David Loewe, Jr.
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>dave...@charter.net (David V. Loewe, Jr) wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
>> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>> >al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
>> >
>> >> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>> >
>> >What, no book/reading material?
>> >
>> >I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than
>> >a quick walk round the local shops.
>>
>> You've either got much bigger pockets or much smaller books than I
>> do.
>
>A standard paperback book will easily fit in a jacket pocket. A couple
>of weeks ago, I had no trouble fitting a hardback of Philip K. Dick's The
>Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch in my pocket when going to the opera.
I can't always be counted on to be wearing a jacket.
--
"Try to learn something about everything and everything about
something."
- T.H. Huxley
Michael Stemper
If you're reading Dick at the opera, how do you follow the score?
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
COFFEE.SYS not found. Abort, Retry, Fail?
Jette Goldie
Depends on your jacket. I can barely get a bus pass and a couple of
tissues in my jacket pocket. I can get a pair of gloves in the pocket
of my winter coat, but even a small paperback book wouldn't fit.
I think we've mentioned that women's clothing tends to lack usable
pockets.
Will in New Haven
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
> in their pockets?
>
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
> leave the house.
>
> Plus wallet and keys.
>
> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
I carry my wallet and my keys and <checking> some tangerine Altoids, a
metal card-protector from the poker room at the Crown Casino in
Australia and some change.
Any books I have with me ride in my cloth bag. My cell phone would be
there also but I left it to starve in a drawer.
I don't like people being able to call me.
--
Will in New Haven
David Friedman
Alan Woodford <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
> in their pockets?
>
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
> leave the house.
>
> Here's my list:
>
> 3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
> 3 MP3 players
> 2 Mobile phones
> 1 Sat Nav
> 1 PDA
> 1 Leatherman
> 3 Spare batteries
> 3 USB cables
> 1 Phone adapter cable
> 1 Torch
> 150ish GB of storage
> 2 Fountain pens
Apropos of your confessing, I think, to counting one device in multiple
categories, this could be:
2 mobile phones, including in them 3 digital cameras (some phones have a
low resolution forward facing camera for video calls as well as a higher
resolution real camera), 2 MP3 players, 1 satellite navigation device, 1
PDA--a smart phone is a PDA--and a torch (you can use a cell phone as a
flashlight).
1 Leatherman, including in it a torch and a pen, but almost certainly a
ballpoint.
That leaves you with, in addition, the batteries, cables, small hard
drive, one more MP3 player, and a couple of fountain pens.
Not so hard to fit in.
Keith F. Lynch
> Any books I have with me ride in my cloth bag.
Not plastic? What if it rains?
> My cell phone would be there also but I left it to starve in a
> drawer. I don't like people being able to call me.
Then why do you have one?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Will in New Haven
> Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
> > Any books I have with me ride in my cloth bag.
>
> Not plastic? What if it rains?
>
> > My cell phone would be there also but I left it to starve in a
> > drawer. I don't like people being able to call me.
>
> Then why do you have one?
I thought I wanted it. It didn't cost much and I paid for the minutes
in advance. Not many minutes. I hated the thing from the moment I got
it. It might be useful in an emergency but I don't want to have any
emergencies.
Keith F. Lynch
> cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The PDA has a bookreader, and I carry quite a bit or literature
>> with me. Current reading: Jurgen, by James Branch Cabell.
> Oddly enough, that's one of the books on my cell phone, although I'm
> not reading it currently.
I'm curious whether either of you paid anything for that. You
shouldn't have had to, since it's in the public domain. I'm sure
there are free downloadable copies online.
David Friedman
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> David Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> wrote:
> > cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The PDA has a bookreader, and I carry quite a bit or literature
> >> with me. Current reading: Jurgen, by James Branch Cabell.
>
> > Oddly enough, that's one of the books on my cell phone, although I'm
> > not reading it currently.
>
> I'm curious whether either of you paid anything for that.
I didn't.
> You
> shouldn't have had to, since it's in the public domain. I'm sure
> there are free downloadable copies online.
Yes.
For that matter, my one published novel is available for free as text
(from Baen) and as podcasts (from my site).
Dorothy J Heydt
Hal has one. Nobody knows its number except the immediate
family. He uses it maybe once every couple of months for "I'm
here, where are you?" calls. Maybe not that often.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Keith F. Lynch
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally
> carry in their pockets?
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when
> you leave the house.
My key ring in my right front trouser pocket and cash in my left front
trouser pocket, always.
The cash is bills only, usually between $50 and $200, plus maybe one,
two, or three quarters if I have a surplus of those coins.
The key ring includes four keys to the apartment (top and bottom locks
on front and back door -- so I can get in and keep others out even if
any one lock fails open or fails closed), mailbox, and the padlock
that's sometimes on my bicycle sometimes on my hand truck. For a few
years I had a laundry room key, but the apartment complex went back to
leaving the laundry rooms unlocked. A prior workplace had a lock on
the men's room door, so I had a key for that.
For the past 11 months the key ring has also included a 4 gig thumb
drive, which contains *all* my files -- millions of emails, newsgroup
postings, BBS postings, blog postings, and web pages; work-related
files; financial files; a journal of where I've been, what I've done,
and what I ate for the past 30 years; all of WSFA's website as of when
I resigned as their webmaster; and much, much more.
If I'm going to take Metro, I also carry my SmarTrip RFID card in my
front right trouser pocket. I don't have to take it out of my pocket
to use it to enter and leave the system, or even to add value to the
card. (I do have to take it out to use it on a bus, rather than
on rail.)
If I'm going to use an ATM machine, I take my ATM card.
If I'm going to a social event, I take a comb.
If I'm going somewhere unfamiliar, I take a map, torn from an ADC
map book.
I often take pen and paper.
On Thursdays, I take a plastic bag, so that I can carry the latest
City Paper and Onion without getting my hands dirty.
If I'm going to a con, I take the receipt to prove I preregistered.
I may also take the "United Individualist" ID card that I made, in
case someone demands that I show ID.
If I'm going to a Worldcon, I take my string of Worldcon badges.
However, I haven't been to a Worldcon since 2004. I may attend
the 2012 Chicago Worldcon if it's in Chicago and in 2012.
If I'm epecting rain, I carry an umbrella, but not in my pocket.
I don't own a wallet, a cell phone, a PDA, an MP3 player, a digital
camera, or a film camera that uses a film size made in this century.
I own a flashlight, but I don't carry it outside as I don't need it.
It never gets really dark around here, not even during a massive
power failure.
I never carry a glasses case, as I never take off my glasses except
when I'm stationary, in which case I can set them down next to me
or (usually on Metro) put them, folded, on the front of my collar.
Kay Shapero
al...@bortas.demon.co.uk says...
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
> p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
>
> >al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
> >
> >
> >I always stuff a book in my pocket if I'm going out for more than a quick
> >walk round the local shops.
>
>
> But there are usually a couple of e-books of some sort included, even
> if the PDA is not much good for reading them.
>
>
for anything BUT reading), and an iPAQ Pocket PC. I read books on them
all the time.
The latter of the above is one of the things in my pocket, also keys and
a cell phone. When they're not in my purse anyway, which also has a Zen
mp3 player and earphones, cash, wallet, various medications, a packet of
polyhedral dice, a case for my hearing aids, safety pins, and whatever
else has wandered in.
That's the small purse - you don't want to know about the big one. :)
--
Kay Shapero
address munged, email kay at following domain
http://www.kayshapero.net
David Loewe, Jr.
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Alan Woodford <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally
>> carry in their pockets?
>
>> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when
>> you leave the house.
<snip>
>For the past 11 months the key ring has also included a 4 gig thumb
>drive, which contains *all* my files -- millions of emails, newsgroup
>postings, BBS postings, blog postings, and web pages; work-related
>files; financial files; a journal of where I've been, what I've done,
>and what I ate for the past 30 years; all of WSFA's website as of when
>I resigned as their webmaster; and much, much more.
I don't get this.
Why would want to have everything on you so that if someone mugs you,
your backup is gone?
If I had such a thing, I'd arrange to have at least two USB sticks. One
would be at an off-site location (aka a friend's house) and another
would be at home. I would update a stick periodically and swap the
sticks leaving the more up to date one at the off site location.
--
"Always remember that it is impossible to speak in such a way that
you cannot be misunderstood: there will always be some who
misunderstand you."
Sir Karl Popper
Kip Williams
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:09:24 -0500, "David V. Loewe, Jr"
> <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:10:35 +0000, Alan Woodford
>> <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>>> in their pockets?
>>>
>>> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>>> leave the house.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
>>> 3 MP3 players
>>> 2 Mobile phones
>>> 1 Sat Nav
>>> 1 PDA
>>> 1 Leatherman
>>> 3 Spare batteries
>>> 3 USB cables
>>> 1 Phone adapter cable
>>> 1 Torch
>
> Two countries, divided by a common language :-p
>
> The torch is a Maglite Solitaire on my keyring.
It was a jest, a jape, a jeux d'esprit.
Kip W
Dorothy J Heydt
In my purse, let's see. It has three compartments, one with some
sub-pockets.
First pocket: wallet, including checkbook and check register and
pockets for cash and things and cards.
Second pocket: Chap-stick in a subpocket, calculator in ditto,
pens in another. In the bottom of the pocket is a little
notebook for shopping lists and my keys, attacked to a small
flashlight. There's room for a paperback.
Third pocket: miscellaneous. Folding hat; lightweight scarf for
when the car windows are open; tube of aspirin; nail file;
handkerchief; two tea bags; tiny first aid kit; ummm ... and some
other stuff. I tidy it up occasionally, but not recently.
Paul Dormer
dlo...@mindspring.com (David Loewe, Jr.) wrote:
>
> >A standard paperback book will easily fit in a jacket pocket. A
couple
> >of weeks ago, I had no trouble fitting a hardback of Philip K. Dick's
> >The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch in my pocket when going to the
> >opera.
>
> I can't always be counted on to be wearing a jacket.
If I'm not wearing a jacket, I need to carry a shoulder bag to carry
wallet, phone, etc., and my shoulder bag can carry quite a large hardback
book.
Paul Dormer
mste...@walkabout.empros.com (Michael Stemper) wrote:
>
> >A standard paperback book will easily fit in a jacket pocket. A
couple
> >of weeks ago, I had no trouble fitting a hardback of Philip K. Dick's
> >The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch in my pocket when going to the
> >opera.
>
> If you're reading Dick at the opera, how do you follow the score?
Don't be silly, you don't follow the score at the opera, you read the
surtitles.
Kip Williams
Well, okay, but they frown on singing along.
Kip W
Paul Dormer
(Kip Williams) wrote:
>
> > Don't be silly, you don't follow the score at the opera, you read
> > the surtitles.
>
> Well, okay, but they frown on singing along.
>
:-)
There's a story I heard about the Delius work Brigg Fair. It's based on
a folk song of that name collected by Percy Grainger in the early part of
the twentieth century. The folk singer from whom Grainger collected it
was invited to the first performance. When the theme is heard (on cor
anglais, as I recall) the man stood up and started singing along.
Nobody had the heart to tell him he wasn't supposed to.
Keith F. Lynch
> There's a story I heard about the Delius work Brigg Fair. It's
> based on a folk song of that name collected by Percy Grainger in
> the early part of the twentieth century. The folk singer from whom
> Grainger collected it was invited to the first performance. When
> the theme is heard (on cor anglais, as I recall) the man stood up
> and started singing along.
> Nobody had the heart to tell him he wasn't supposed to.
Then there was the small child who was taken to a performance of Swan
Lake. He had been told the plot so he wouldn't ask questions during
the ballet. In the sad quiet part near the end, he loudly blurted
out, "Is that the dead duck?" The swan character then looked at him
and nodded yes.
I think I read that in Reader's Digest.
Morris Keesan
<al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> A sleeveless jacket with lots of pockets.
In the US, we would call that a vest. Wouldn't you call it a waistcoat?
The only thing I can think of that I would conceivably call a "sleeveless
jacket"
would be a jacket that had the sleeves removed. (Rebecca Pidgeon was
wearing one
of these in the original production of David Mamet's play "Oleanna"; it
looked
like a man's tailored sport jacket without sleeves.)
--
Morris Keesan -- mke...@post.harvard.edu
Alan Woodford
<mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:40:32 -0400, Alan Woodford
><al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> A sleeveless jacket with lots of pockets.
>
>In the US, we would call that a vest. Wouldn't you call it a waistcoat?
Possibly, but I tend to think of a waistcoat as something rather
smarter, worn with a smart shirt.
She Who Must Be Obeyed has been known to refer to it as my handbag :-)
>The only thing I can think of that I would conceivably call a "sleeveless
>jacket"
>would be a jacket that had the sleeves removed. (Rebecca Pidgeon was
>wearing one
>of these in the original production of David Mamet's play "Oleanna"; it
>looked
>like a man's tailored sport jacket without sleeves.)
See my recent post in the thread that spawned this one about my
fashion sense, or rather complete lack thereof.
Alan Woodford
The Greying Lensman!
Morris Keesan
<al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
> in their pockets?
I had been thinking of starting this exact same thread, with the same
subject (but with "its" spelled properly).
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
> leave the house.
When I'm dressed (but not if I'm just wearing sweatpants or a robe, with no
expectation of leaving the house) whether or not I'm leaving the house, I
have
my wallet and pocket knife in my left front trousers pocket, spare change
and
a box of AAA batteries in the opposite pocket, and a pocket watch in my
watch
pocket. Usually a handkerchief in my back left pocket. When leaving the
house,
the only things I pick up without thinking are my keys (keyring with two
keys:
house and car) and a hat, although I do think briefly about the weather
before
deciding what hat to wear. And since my new car key is so annoyingly bulky
with its embedded electronics, I have the keyring on a small
carabiner-clip,
and usually attach it to a belt loop instead of putting the keys in my
trousers pocket. I have two other keyrings with rarely-used keys,
Other things depend on weather, time of day, time of year, what I'm going
out for, etc. Most of the time I have one or two MP3 players, in my right
shirt pocket, right jacket pocket, or pants pocket, and a pencil and a few
pens in my left shirt pocket. If I'm wearing a pocketless shirt, I'll
often
slide a (.5mm mechanical) pencil in next to my wallet. If it's sunny out,
or
if I expect it to get sunny, I'll put my sunglasses in a pocket.
If I'm going out while my son is at school, or otherwse in the care of
others
who might need to contact me in an emergency, I'll take my mobile phone.
When I was driving a 20-year-old car I got in the habit of carrying the
phone
in case of breakdowns, but since replacing with a two-year-old car earlier
this
year, I'm not as likely to have the phone, and I often don't know where my
mobile
phone is.
My winter jackets all have at least one chapstick in one pocket, and
usually
a small packet of facial tissues, and a pair of lightweight silk glove
liners.
I also almost always have at least one book with me, and my reading-list
notebook
if I have a pocket large enough for it.
When going skiing, I leave the wallet in the house, and take just a credit
card,
drivers' license, health insurance card, some paper money, and house key;
if
we're driving somewhere to ski, the house key gets augmented with car key
and the
key to the ski rack. And, of course, ski waxes, cork, and scraper, for
rewaxing
on the trails if necessary, but those go in the back pockets of my ski
jacket.
David V. Loewe, Jr
<mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
I have a lightly insulated vest with several pockets that I used to wear
when it was cold enough to need a sweatshirt - which unlike my t-shirts
didn't have pockets.
--
"ue o muite arukou
namida ga kobore naiyouni
omoidasu harunohi
hitoribotchi no yoru"
Rokusuke Ei
Keith F. Lynch
> I had been thinking of starting this exact same thread, with the
> same subject (but with "its" spelled properly).
Thank you for correcting that. I have read your corrected
subject line.
And if you want me to also read the body of your message, perhaps
you could correct your alternating long and short lines. Thanks.
David V. Loewe, Jr
<mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
You've *got* to do something about your formatting, Morris. THAT was
brutal.
<snip eye searing formatting>
Marcus L. Rowland
<ddfr-2D8AEF.1...@newsfarm.phx.highwinds-media.com>, David
Friedman <dd...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> writes
>In article <MPG.2555205fd...@news.octanews.com>,
> netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>
>> I can
>> somewhat understand carrying a compact and a SLR at the same time but no
>> one could stuff a SLR into their pocket.
>
>Long ago, one of the companies made a 110 format SLR kit (I think it was
>110), and I'm pretty sure the camera was small enough to stuff into a
>pocket.
>
Pentax - it was tiny, you could easily get the camera and standard lens
into one pocket, and another lens or two in another. Or Minolta made one
with a zoom lens, not so small but it would fit into a pocket.
But there were serious problems with 110 film SLRs - most notably the
film plane rarely stayed completely flat and the negative was teeny -
and I'd personally prefer the Olympus Pen FT, a half-frame 35mm SLR with
a body that was about the same size as the original Leicas (not the much
bulkier M series), and had a wide angle lens that only protruded about
ten or twelve mm. That would easily fit in a moderately large pocket. Or
carry a rangefinder Leica or one of the Russian / Japanese clones, of
course.
--
Marcus L. Rowland http://www.forgottenfutures.com/
http://www.forgottenfutures.org/
LJ:ffutures http://www.forgottenfutures.co.uk/
Forgotten Futures - The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
Diana: Warrior Princess & Elvis: The Legendary Tours
The Original Flatland Role Playing Game
Marcus L. Rowland
<al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> writes
>So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>in their pockets?
>
>leave the house.
>
>
>3 Digital Cameras, 1.3 to 8 Megapixels.
>3 MP3 players
>2 Mobile phones
>1 Sat Nav
>1 PDA
>1 Leatherman
>3 Spare batteries
>3 USB cables
>1 Phone adapter cable
>1 Torch
>2 Fountain pens
>
>
>That isn't too much junk, is it? :-)
>
>The Greying Lensman!
My current list is:
Mobile phone (no memory, no camera, doesn't do anything except work as a
pay-as-you-go phone), usually switched off since it's for emergencies
only.
ID card for work
Travel card (rarely used, but if I need to use public transport
unexpectedly it has enough credit to get me to and from work a couple of
times)
Two bunches of keys
Wallet, coins, etc.
Two elastic straps for securing things to my motorbike (should be in my
bike panniers but they usually seem to end up in my jacket)
A memory stick if I think I'm going to need it, usually not.
Camera ditto.
I sometimes carry a pocket PC (HP Jornada 728) if I really think I'll
want to spend some time writing while I'm out and can't justify carrying
my laptop, but it isn't very often.
Robert Sneddon
>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:10:35 +0000, Alan Woodford
>>> <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>>>> in their pockets?
>>>>
>>>> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>>>> leave the house.
>>>>
>>>> Here's my list:
>>>> 3 Spare batteries
Are they for your tie?
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Alan Woodford
<fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:10:35 +0000, Alan Woodford
>>>> <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>>>>> in their pockets?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>>>>> leave the house.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my list:
>[Clip]
>>>>> 3 Spare batteries
>
> Are they for your tie?
NO!
I have got a couple of battery-powered ties, but they don't get worn
often enough for spare batteries :-)
David V. Loewe, Jr
<al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 12:39:24 +0000, Robert Sneddon
><fr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:10:35 +0000, Alan Woodford
>>>>> <al...@bortas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
>>>>>> in their pockets?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
>>>>>> leave the house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's my list:
>>[Clip]
>>>>>> 3 Spare batteries
>>
>> Are they for your tie?
>
>NO!
>
>I have got a couple of battery-powered ties, but they don't get worn
>often enough for spare batteries :-)
I have a battery powered hat.
--
"Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed."
-Lazarus Long
Keith F. Lynch
> I have got a couple of battery-powered ties, but they don't get worn
> often enough for spare batteries :-)
Batteries do have a finite shelf-life.
David Friedman
"Marcus L. Rowland" <forgotte...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> But there were serious problems with 110 film SLRs - most notably the
> film plane rarely stayed completely flat and the negative was teeny -
> and I'd personally prefer the Olympus Pen FT, a half-frame 35mm SLR with
> a body that was about the same size as the original Leicas (not the much
> bulkier M series), and had a wide angle lens that only protruded about
> ten or twelve mm.
I had an Olympus pen--a half-frame camera, although mine wasn't an SLR.
Keith F. Lynch
> a rangefinder Leica or one of the Russian / Japanese clones,
> of course.
And you could get a Russian pocket-sized camera for free. All you had
to do was promise to spy for them. :-)
Kip Williams
> Marcus L. Rowland <forgotte...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> That would easily fit in a moderately large pocket. Or carry
>> a rangefinder Leica or one of the Russian / Japanese clones,
>> of course.
>
> And you could get a Russian pocket-sized camera for free. All you had
> to do was promise to spy for them. :-)
A student in my 8th-grade photography class had one of those little 16mm
spy-type cameras. Very neat, though inconvenient in some ways. Since it
was often intended for photographing documents at a short distance, it
came with a small chain (or metal string; not exactly a wire) with a
couple of distances marked off on it, so the spy on the go could quickly
measure off the distance and snap those papers before catching the next
autogiro to Siam.
Kip W
j...@cix.compulink.co.uk
al...@bortas.demon.co.uk (Alan Woodford) wrote:
> "Morris Keesan" <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
> >Alan Woodford wrote:
> >> A sleeveless jacket with lots of pockets.
> > In the US, we would call that a vest. Wouldn't you call it a
> > waistcoat?
> Possibly, but I tend to think of a waistcoat as something rather
> smarter, worn with a smart shirt.
>
> She Who Must Be Obeyed has been known to refer to it as my handbag :-)
Me, I just admit I carry a handbag. It contains as of today:
Two string bags, a couple of plastic carrier bags, paper tissues, a
folding umbrella. Diary/address book, non-electronic. One of the books
I'm reading. My cellphone/pocket internet, if I haven't left it at home.
Pens, a sharpie, stomach medication. Bank books, spare comb. Dice,
pencils, rubber, micro-print RPG rules. A couple of USB keys. Craft
knife and spare blades. Swiss army knife, Leatherman, Maglite.
Anti-static wrist strap, pliers, chip puller. No, I don't fly regularly:
last time to date was Easter 2006.
My pockets, meanwhile, contain merely wallet, keys, change, a comb and a
security pass for work. If I try to keep more stuff than that in my
pockets I always seem to lose it, so I stopped.
Yes, the handbag is moderately heavy. But the incremental weight of the
things that don't get used often is quite small, and having the stuff is
often useful. The time my previous employer said "we're going to a
customer site, get in the car", and then when we were half-way there
"You're going to install a bunch of memory upgrades ... err ... do you
need any tools?" really left a mark, especially since they'd just
assumed I could do this, rather than asking.
--
John Dallman, j...@cix.co.uk, HTML mail is treated as probable spam.
Joy Beeson
<jgold...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I think we've mentioned that women's clothing tends to lack usable
> pockets.
Then there's the times when I wear two or three five-pocket cycling
jerseys with my eight-pocket jeans, and I want some small item in a
hurry . . . .
To the intent of the original post: what I carry in my pants pockets
to be sure I don't leave the house without them:
30 SPF invisible lipstick
small folding knife
"pocket bag" intended to summarize the contents of my wallet.
In the pocket bag:
a few coins
small amount of folding money
a paper table napkin, folded in eighths
golf pencil
nail clippers
half an emery board
half a pocket comb (coarse end)
four hairpins
pigtail holder
safety pins
sewing kit
In the sewing kit:
Name, address, phone number, e-mail address
(in large type for showing to people.
Assorted numbers
(small type, inside)
five needles
(*supposed* to be only one; kit has been used)
four pieces of thread: black and white, polyester and cotton
(assorted scraps of coarser thread wound around extra needles)
Single-edge razor blade in original wrapper
Band-Aid folded in thirds
To my surprise, my sewing kit has never been confiscated.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Dan Goodman
> So, following on from the other thread, what do people normally carry
> in their pockets?
>
> Nothing special, just the stuff you pick up without thinking when you
> leave the house.
Left pants pocket: wallet, electronic transit card
Right pocket: coin purse, keys, wristwatch
Externally:
Backpack: pills and bandaids, cell phone, transit schedules, two
golfballs
Small shoulder bag: notebook, pens, jackknife, checks,
most-likely-to-be-used transit schedules.
--
Dan Goodman
Journal at:
dsgood.livejournal.com
dsgood.dreamwidth.org
dsgood.insanejournal.com
cryptoguy
wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:53:14 -0400, "Morris Keesan"
>
>
> You've *got* to do something about your formatting, Morris. THAT was
> brutal.
>
> <snip eye searing formatting>
I used to have the same problem, but I solved it, after being bitched
at about it enough (largely by Keith). I post, I confess, through
Google Groups. GG seems to apply its own notions of proper line
length, and any lines that it thinks are too long it breaks at word
boundaries.
The problem is, GG's notion of 'proper line length' is pretty short,
and difficult to estimate when typing with a proportional font. Those
of us older users who are used to hitting 'return' tend to do so
somewhat past where GG asserts we should, which results in a pattern
of alternating long and short lines, which is what I think David L is
complaining about.
Morris uses Eternal September, not GG, but I wonder if he's posting
through a similar web interface. He might try what I'm doing, which is
type paragraphs without returns, and let the posting software do the
breaks.
pt
Keith F. Lynch
> I used to have the same problem, but I solved it, after being
> bitched at about it enough (largely by Keith).
I'm glad I've accomplished something useful here.
> I post, I confess, through Google Groups. GG seems to apply its own
> notions of proper line length, and any lines that it thinks are too
> long it breaks at word boundaries.
I wouldn't mind if it rewrapped whole paragraphs, using any reasonable
line length. But alternating long and short lines are just too
annoying to read. Usually I just skip all such messages. (I suspect
many others do too. No, I can't prove it. No, I don't have hard
numbers.) If it's something I *really* want to read, I save it to a
file, then edit that file with Emacs, so as to reformat it.
> The problem is, GG's notion of 'proper line length' is pretty short,
> and difficult to estimate when typing with a proportional font.
Why would you use a proportional font on Usenet?
If you compose your message in Emacs, or any other equally capable
text editor, after you finish typing each paragraph you can have
the editor wrap it for you at whatever line length you prefer.
(Presumably you'd first test Google Groups to find out what line
lengths it finds acceptable.)
I wrap at column 72, using Emacs. If the lines look a little ragged,
or if there's one short word alone on the last line, I may manually
tweak the formatting to make it more even.
I do the same with text I quote, unless the exact positions of the
line breaks in the quoted text is significant, which it seldom is.
T Guy
> I think we've mentioned that women's clothing tends to lack usable
> pockets.
(T Guy):
That would be because women's clothing separates the functions of the
jacket and the handbag.
T Guy
David V. Loewe, Jr
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I post, I confess, through Google Groups. GG seems to apply its own
>> notions of proper line length, and any lines that it thinks are too
>> long it breaks at word boundaries.
>
>I wouldn't mind if it rewrapped whole paragraphs, using any reasonable
>line length. But alternating long and short lines are just too
>annoying to read. Usually I just skip all such messages. (I suspect
>many others do too. No, I can't prove it. No, I don't have hard
>numbers.)
Well, I *try* and read them. Then again, I don't killfile people for
non-advertising content, either.
>If it's something I *really* want to read, I save it to a
>file, then edit that file with Emacs, so as to reformat it.
>
>> The problem is, GG's notion of 'proper line length' is pretty short,
>> and difficult to estimate when typing with a proportional font.
>
>Why would you use a proportional font on Usenet?
Why wouldn't you? It looks better. And, a decent up to date news
reader should allow you to switch between fixed and proportional fonts.
I know that Agent does.
>If you compose your message in Emacs, or any other equally capable
>text editor, after you finish typing each paragraph you can have
>the editor wrap it for you at whatever line length you prefer.
>(Presumably you'd first test Google Groups to find out what line
>lengths it finds acceptable.)
Why would anyone want to add in the use of another program when one
should suffice?
>I wrap at column 72, using Emacs. If the lines look a little ragged,
>or if there's one short word alone on the last line, I may manually
>tweak the formatting to make it more even.
And I wrap at column 72 - using Agent. No matter how ragged they look
in the composition window, I leave them - as quoting levels will take
u0p some of that if the message gets quoted much.
>I do the same with text I quote, unless the exact positions of the
>line breaks in the quoted text is significant, which it seldom is.
--
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
- Yogi Berra explaining how to get to his home
which can be reached regardless of which branch
of the fork you take
Ben Yalow
>cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I used to have the same problem, but I solved it, after being
>> bitched at about it enough (largely by Keith).
>I'm glad I've accomplished something useful here.
>> I post, I confess, through Google Groups. GG seems to apply its own
>> notions of proper line length, and any lines that it thinks are too
>> long it breaks at word boundaries.
>I wouldn't mind if it rewrapped whole paragraphs, using any reasonable
>line length. But alternating long and short lines are just too
>annoying to read. Usually I just skip all such messages. (I suspect
>many others do too. No, I can't prove it. No, I don't have hard
>numbers.) If it's something I *really* want to read, I save it to a
>file, then edit that file with Emacs, so as to reformat it.
>> The problem is, GG's notion of 'proper line length' is pretty short,
>> and difficult to estimate when typing with a proportional font.
>Why would you use a proportional font on Usenet?
Becuase proportional fonts are easier to read. And since they're no
harder to use than fixed pitch fonts, then why not save eyestrain?
>If you compose your message in Emacs, or any other equally capable
>text editor, after you finish typing each paragraph you can have
>the editor wrap it for you at whatever line length you prefer.
>(Presumably you'd first test Google Groups to find out what line
>lengths it finds acceptable.)
Why compose your posting offline? Just bring up the posting, and hit
followup, and type.
>I wrap at column 72, using Emacs. If the lines look a little ragged,
>or if there's one short word alone on the last line, I may manually
>tweak the formatting to make it more even.
>I do the same with text I quote, unless the exact positions of the
>line breaks in the quoted text is significant, which it seldom is.
>--
>Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
Michael Benveniste
<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>A student in my 8th-grade photography class had one of those little 16mm
>spy-type cameras. Very neat, though inconvenient in some ways.
About once a year, I run a cartridge of film through my Pentax 110
SLR. But since these days, everyone just assumes it's some sort of
odd digital camera, a bit of the fun has gone out of it.
--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
Don't succumb to the false authority of a tool or model. There
is no substitute for thinking.
Philip Chee
> In <hcl1bj$l16$1...@reader1.panix.com> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>>Why would you use a proportional font on Usenet?
>
> Becuase proportional fonts are easier to read. And since they're no
> harder to use than fixed pitch fonts, then why not save eyestrain?
Isn't this a personal preference? Some like me find monospaced courier
easier to read and hence less eyestrain.
> Why compose your posting offline? Just bring up the posting, and hit
> followup, and type.
Long standing habit from when I was on dialup and using an offline
newsreader.
Phil
--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]Life... don't talk to me about life.
* TagZilla 0.066.6
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 01:07:05 +0000 (UTC), Ben Yalow wrote:
>> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> writes:
>
>>>Why would you use a proportional font on Usenet?
>>
>> Becuase proportional fonts are easier to read. And since they're no
>> harder to use than fixed pitch fonts, then why not save eyestrain?
>
>Isn't this a personal preference? Some like me find monospaced courier
>easier to read and hence less eyestrain.
So why not use a news reader that lets *you* select - like Forte Agent
does?
>> Why compose your posting offline? Just bring up the posting, and hit
>> followup, and type.
>
>Long standing habit from when I was on dialup and using an offline
>newsreader.
What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
even when I had dial-up, used it online.
--
"We drank a toast to innocence, we drank a toast to time.
Reliving in our eloquence, another 'auld lang syne'......"
Dan Fogelberg
cryptoguy
> cryptoguy <treifam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I used to have the same problem, but I solved it, after being
> > bitched at about it enough (largely by Keith).
>
> I'm glad I've accomplished something useful here.
Yes, you did. I don't like GG's rewrapping of lines, but I can use it
in places where a real newsclient won't,.
> > I post, I confess, through Google Groups. GG seems to apply its own
> > notions of proper line length, and any lines that it thinks are too
> > long it breaks at word boundaries.
>
> I wouldn't mind if it rewrapped whole paragraphs, using any reasonable
> line length. But alternating long and short lines are just too
> annoying to read. Usually I just skip all such messages. (I suspect
> many others do too. No, I can't prove it. No, I don't have hard
> numbers.) If it's something I *really* want to read, I save it to a
> file, then edit that file with Emacs, so as to reformat it.
> > The problem is, GG's notion of 'proper line length' is pretty short,
> > and difficult to estimate when typing with a proportional font.
>
> Why would you use a proportional font on Usenet?
Easier to read - there's a reason why books and newspapers use
proportional text.
> If you compose your message in Emacs, or any other equally capable
> text editor, after you finish typing each paragraph you can have
> the editor wrap it for you at whatever line length you prefer.
> (Presumably you'd first test Google Groups to find out what line
> lengths it finds acceptable.)
>
> I wrap at column 72, using Emacs. If the lines look a little ragged,
> or if there's one short word alone on the last line, I may manually
> tweak the formatting to make it more even.
A little too OCDish for me, I'm afraid.
> I do the same with text I quote, unless the exact positions of the
> line breaks in the quoted text is significant, which it seldom is.
I sometimes go to some effort to fix the mangling GG visits on quoted
text, but only if I really want people to re-read it.
pt
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> I wrap at column 72, using Emacs. �If the lines look a little
>> ragged, or if there's one short word alone on the last line, I
>> may manually tweak the formatting to make it more even.
> A little too OCDish for me, I'm afraid.
It's simple courtesy to the readers, as is using correct grammar and
spelling. All else being equal, it makes your messages more likely
to be read.
> I sometimes go to some effort to fix the mangling GG visits on
> quoted text, but only if I really want people to re-read it.
If you don't, why not delete the quoted text?
Jay E. Morris
On 2-Nov-2009, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
> always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
> even when I had dial-up, used it online.
Offline:
I download all messages, disconnect, go somewhere for lunch, read the
messages and reply, come back, connect, and the messages go out.
Online only:
I disconnect, and well, that's it.
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
How does that work when you're always connected and you only download
the messages you want to read?
--
"I aim to misbehave."
Malcolm Reynolds
Morris Keesan
> Morris uses Eternal September, not GG, but I wonder if he's posting
> through a similar web interface.
Nope. When my previous computer went belly up a few years ago and I
replaced it with my current machine, I made a conscious decision not to
install a newsreader on the new computer, because Usenet is too much of
a potential timesink, and with my excellent work avoidance skills, I didn't
need the extra distraction while studying for a graduate degree.
Having graduated earlier this year, I've allowed myself back onto Usenet,
but I've been too lazy to get around to installing a real newsreader,
so I'm using the news client that's built into Opera.
> He might try what I'm doing, which is
> type paragraphs without returns, and let the posting software do the
> breaks.
I could do that, but I don't like giving up the control, and having grown
up using older technology (typewriters, model 33 teletypes, VT52s, VT100s,
etc., with software that didn't auto-wrap), I find it too hard to break
the habit of hitting the ENTER key at appropriate spots.
The problem is that Opera appears to insert line breaks, but I haven't
been able to find any documentation about this, including what its idea
of proper line length is, or how to configure it, or even any written
acknowledgment that it really does this. The specific problem with my
recent post (for which I apologize to everyone who got eyestrain trying
to read it) is that I guessed wrong, this time, about where in the line
Opera was going to wrap, and typed my lines slightly too long. My
solution for this, which seems to be working, has been to unmaximize the
message composition window, inside Opera's main window, and adjust it to
a width I like (which is shorter than Opera's default width), so as long as
I keep my lines shorter than the width of the window, I'm in control of
where the line breaks are, without having to guess, and Opera isn't
screwing up my formatting for me.
--
Morris Keesan -- mke...@post.harvard.edu
Morris Keesan
<dave...@charter.net> wrote:
...
> What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
> always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
> even when I had dial-up, used it online.
Agent can be used either way. When I was on dialup, I always downloaded
news articles, used Agent offline, and went back online to upload any of
my own posts, so that I wouldn't be tying up our only phone line.
But even then, I never used a separate editor for composing messages.
Newsreaders like rn and its descendants, which run from a Unix shell,
are inherently online. If you read news the way I suspect Keith does,
you need to be online and logged in to the host which has the newsgroups
on its disk (or remotely mounted). It's been a while since I used rn
that way, but I don't remember it having its own editor, so with that
kind of newsreader, it's natural to be using a separate editor program,
which gets invoked by the newsreader. This is the typical Unix way of
doing things: small programs which interact with each other and are each
good at their specialty, as opposed to the Windows model of huge bloated
programs that require vast amounts of system resources to run.
Jay E. Morris
Before my laptop I was always connected. But I didn't pick and choose, just
downloaded all message bodies but replies went right out.
Keith F. Lynch
> It's been a while since I used rn that way, but I don't remember it
> having its own editor, so with that kind of newsreader, it's natural
> to be using a separate editor program, which gets invoked by the
> newsreader.
Yes, I use Emacs to compose nesgroup messages, emails, and all other
text. For instance when I edit Wikipedia, escape-e invokes Emacs
from within Lynx.
I find the idea of every program having its own editor almost
incomprehensibly bizarre. I'd have to memorize several different
incompatible sets of editing commands? It would be like having a car
where the controls were swapped around depending on which road you
were on. And a good editor, unlike a car, has hundreds of controls.
David Loewe, Jr.
<mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:10:31 -0500, David V. Loewe, Jr
><dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>...
>> What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
>> always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
>> even when I had dial-up, used it online.
>
>Agent can be used either way. When I was on dialup, I always downloaded
>news articles, used Agent offline,
I notice that you post with Opera Mail. What prompted you to give Agent
up?
>and went back online to upload any of
>my own posts, so that I wouldn't be tying up our only phone line.
>But even then, I never used a separate editor for composing messages.
So, basically, an offline reader is more versatile? After all, it works
offline and it works even better online.
>Newsreaders like rn and its descendants, which run from a Unix shell,
>are inherently online. If you read news the way I suspect Keith does,
>you need to be online and logged in to the host which has the newsgroups
>on its disk (or remotely mounted). It's been a while since I used rn
>that way, but I don't remember it having its own editor, so with that
>kind of newsreader, it's natural to be using a separate editor program,
>which gets invoked by the newsreader. This is the typical Unix way of
>doing things: small programs which interact with each other and are each
>good at their specialty, as opposed to the Windows model of huge bloated
>programs that require vast amounts of system resources to run.
I would hate switching programs, I think.
--
"Nothing shocks me. I'm a scientist."
- Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones
Morris Keesan
wrote:
> Morris Keesan <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> It's been a while since I used rn that way, but I don't remember it
>> having its own editor, so with that kind of newsreader, it's natural
>> to be using a separate editor program, which gets invoked by the
>> newsreader.
>
> Yes, I use Emacs to compose nesgroup messages, emails, and all other
> text. For instance when I edit Wikipedia, escape-e invokes Emacs
> from within Lynx.
>
> I find the idea of every program having its own editor almost
> incomprehensibly bizarre. I'd have to memorize several different
> incompatible sets of editing commands?
No, the usual pattern is that all programs have the same small set of
editing
commands:
Click here to move the cursor here, or use arrow keys to move around.
Backspace to delete the character before the cursor, Delete to
delete the character before the cursor.
Highlight text with the mouse to select it.
Use the "Copy", "Cut", or "Paste" selections from the "Edit" menu,
or the standard (non-configurable) Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, and Ctrl-V
keyboard shortcuts.
and a few others.
Text editing in Windows nowhere near even the most basic functionality
that emacs users are used to.
Keith F. Lynch
> Text editing in Windows nowhere near even the most basic
> functionality that emacs users are used to.
Then it's just as well that I've never considered "upgrading" to
Windows. Maybe in 20 years it will have the functionality I was
accustumed to 20 years ago -- at least if I grow a third hand by
then: Two hands for the keyboard and one for the mouse.
No wonder Cryptoguy considers my formatting "OCDish." To do what
takes me seconds might take him hours.
David V. Loewe, Jr
wrote:
>On 2-Nov-2009, "David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 01:52:02 GMT, "Jay E. Morris" <mor...@epsilon3.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On 2-Nov-2009, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
>> >> always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
>> >> even when I had dial-up, used it online.
>> >
>> >Offline:
>> >I download all messages, disconnect, go somewhere for lunch, read the
>> >messages and reply, come back, connect, and the messages go out.
>> >
>> >Online only:
>> >I disconnect, and well, that's it.
>>
>> How does that work when you're always connected and you only download
>> the messages you want to read?
>
>Before my laptop I was always connected. But I didn't pick and choose, just
>downloaded all message bodies but replies went right out.
Why download all messages? Headers? Sure. But all messages
automatically? Seems excessive. Then again, I have a 6 year plus long
news spool...
--
"I want to know what became of the changes
We waited for love to bring.
Were they only the fitful dreams
Of some greater awakening?"
Clyde J. Browne
David Loewe, Jr.
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Morris Keesan <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> Text editing in Windows nowhere near even the most basic
>> functionality that emacs users are used to.
>
>Then it's just as well that I've never considered "upgrading" to
>Windows. Maybe in 20 years it will have the functionality I was
>accustumed to 20 years ago -- at least if I grow a third hand by
>then: Two hands for the keyboard and one for the mouse.
>
>No wonder Cryptoguy considers my formatting "OCDish." To do what
>takes me seconds might take him hours.
Now who is exaggerating?
When I do what you do, it takes seconds.
--
"Your national security advisor has just been executed.
He's a very good negotiator.
He bought you another half hour."
Egor Korshunov "Air Force One"
Morris Keesan
<dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:07:12 -0500, "Morris Keesan"
> <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:10:31 -0500, David V. Loewe, Jr
>> <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>> ...
>>> What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
>>> always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
>>> even when I had dial-up, used it online.
>>
>> Agent can be used either way. When I was on dialup, I always downloaded
>> news articles, used Agent offline,
>
> I notice that you post with Opera Mail. What prompted you to give Agent
> up?
Although it doesn't work as well for my usage style as Agent, Opera works
basically well enough, and I've just been too lazy to get around to
downloading and installing Free Agent (and, as I'm still being supported by
my wife, and not generating any income, I can't justify actually spending
money on a newsreader, so leaves out Agent, and the difference between
Opera and Free Agent is less than that between Opera and Agent).
>> and went back online to upload any of
>> my own posts, so that I wouldn't be tying up our only phone line.
>> But even then, I never used a separate editor for composing messages.
>
> So, basically, an offline reader is more versatile? After all, it works
> offline and it works even better online.
That's an overgeneralization. Some newsreaders can be used both online
and offline. That doesn't make them "offline newsreaders". And the
newsreader built into Opera, which is essentially an offline-or-online
newsreader, is definitely less versatile in some ways than an online
newsreader like rn (rn has much better filtering capabilities, and can
be operated entirely from the keyboard, etc.).
>
>> Newsreaders like rn and its descendants, which run from a Unix shell,
>> are inherently online. If you read news the way I suspect Keith does,
>> you need to be online and logged in to the host which has the newsgroups
>> on its disk (or remotely mounted). It's been a while since I used rn
>> that way, but I don't remember it having its own editor, so with that
>> kind of newsreader, it's natural to be using a separate editor program,
>> which gets invoked by the newsreader. This is the typical Unix way of
>> doing things: small programs which interact with each other and are each
>> good at their specialty, as opposed to the Windows model of huge bloated
>> programs that require vast amounts of system resources to run.
>
> I would hate switching programs, I think.
I don't think you would. In practice, one doesn't notice switching
programs.
When running a mail client, or a newsreader, when you start composing a
message the editor gets automatically started up, with appropriate content
(e.g. quoted text, signatures) inserted, just as if Agent had opened a
"compose message" window for you, and when you save and exit you're
automatically back where you should be. It feels seamless, and has the
advantages that for all applications, you have the identical editing
interface, and it's the editing interface of your choice, which you
control,
and if it's a powerful editor like emacs, it's an interface which is
highly configurable and customizable to your own usage style, and by the
simple expedient of copying your ".emacs" configuration file, you can have
this exact same editing interface on almost any machine and any operating
system. I edit text files the same way on Windows, Unix, and Mac, without
having to learn new key compbinations or menu choices.
Morris Keesan
<dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> Why download all messages? Headers? Sure. But all messages
> automatically? Seems excessive. Then again, I have a 6 year plus long
> news spool...
I download all messages, even though I remain online while using Usenet,
and even though I skip many messages unread.
The download happens in the background, while I'm doing other things, and
that means that when I open a message, the body is always there
immediately,
ready to be read, instead of having to be requested from the server.
David V. Loewe, Jr
With broadband, the download normally takes as near as instantaneously
as to not matter.
--
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail
fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
- John Paul Jones
David V. Loewe, Jr
<mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:29:49 -0500, David Loewe, Jr.
><dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:07:12 -0500, "Morris Keesan"
>> <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:10:31 -0500, David V. Loewe, Jr
>>> <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> What is the difference between an online and offline news reader? I've
>>>> always seen Agent listed as an offline news reader, but I have always,
>>>> even when I had dial-up, used it online.
>>>
>>> Agent can be used either way. When I was on dialup, I always downloaded
>>> news articles, used Agent offline,
>>
>> I notice that you post with Opera Mail. What prompted you to give Agent
>> up?
>
>Although it doesn't work as well for my usage style as Agent, Opera works
>basically well enough, and I've just been too lazy to get around to
>downloading and installing Free Agent (and, as I'm still being supported by
>my wife, and not generating any income, I can't justify actually spending
>money on a newsreader, so leaves out Agent, and the difference between
>Opera and Free Agent is less than that between Opera and Agent).
Do you still have your old Registration Code?
If so, I have the Agent install files for versions 4.20, 3.30. 3.10,
2.00 (builds 652 and 646), 1.93, 1.92 and 1.91. I'm sure it will work
on one of them and I can send you the file - no problem.
>>> and went back online to upload any of
>>> my own posts, so that I wouldn't be tying up our only phone line.
>>> But even then, I never used a separate editor for composing messages.
>>
>> So, basically, an offline reader is more versatile? After all, it works
>> offline and it works even better online.
>
>That's an overgeneralization. Some newsreaders can be used both online
>and offline. That doesn't make them "offline newsreaders". And the
>newsreader built into Opera, which is essentially an offline-or-online
>newsreader, is definitely less versatile in some ways than an online
>newsreader like rn (rn has much better filtering capabilities, and can
>be operated entirely from the keyboard, etc.).
I meant "all other things being equal."
>>> Newsreaders like rn and its descendants, which run from a Unix shell,
>>> are inherently online. If you read news the way I suspect Keith does,
>>> you need to be online and logged in to the host which has the newsgroups
>>> on its disk (or remotely mounted). It's been a while since I used rn
>>> that way, but I don't remember it having its own editor, so with that
>>> kind of newsreader, it's natural to be using a separate editor program,
>>> which gets invoked by the newsreader. This is the typical Unix way of
>>> doing things: small programs which interact with each other and are each
>>> good at their specialty, as opposed to the Windows model of huge bloated
>>> programs that require vast amounts of system resources to run.
>>
>> I would hate switching programs, I think.
>
>I don't think you would. In practice, one doesn't notice switching
>programs.
>When running a mail client, or a newsreader, when you start composing a
>message the editor gets automatically started up, with appropriate content
>(e.g. quoted text, signatures) inserted, just as if Agent had opened a
>"compose message" window for you, and when you save and exit you're
>automatically back where you should be. It feels seamless, and has the
>advantages that for all applications, you have the identical editing
>interface, and it's the editing interface of your choice, which you
>control,
I really only use two editors - Agent and Word (at least I think Outlook
edits e-mail replies in a Word interface).
>and if it's a powerful editor like emacs, it's an interface which is
>highly configurable and customizable to your own usage style, and by the
>simple expedient of copying your ".emacs" configuration file, you can have
>this exact same editing interface on almost any machine and any operating
>system. I edit text files the same way on Windows, Unix, and Mac, without
>having to learn new key compbinations or menu choices.
I only use Windows machines.
--
"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool
following it."
- Laurence VanCott Niven
Philip Chee
> With broadband, the download normally takes as near as instantaneously
> as to not matter.
Not if you live in a third world country.
cryptoguy
> cryptoguy <treifam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >> I wrap at column 72, using Emacs. If the lines look a little
> >> ragged, or if there's one short word alone on the last line, I
> >> may manually tweak the formatting to make it more even.
> > A little too OCDish for me, I'm afraid.
>
> It's simple courtesy to the readers, as is using correct grammar and
> spelling. All else being equal, it makes your messages more likely
> to be read.
>
> > I sometimes go to some effort to fix the mangling GG visits on
> > quoted text, but only if I really want people to re-read it.
>
> If you don't, why not delete the quoted text?
I often do - note the presence of [...] marks in many of my messages
to indicate deleted material.
Other times, I just don't see the need. Disk space is cheap, and GG
hides quoted text when I read the messages, unless I tell it not to.
Others leaving in quoted material doesn't affect me.
The drawback, as we've seen recently, is that I sometimes mis-remember
the context; of course, the same would happen if the others posting
deleted the material to start with.
pt
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:07:18 -0600, David V. Loewe, Jr wrote:
>
>> With broadband, the download normally takes as near as instantaneously
>> as to not matter.
>
>Not if you live in a third world country.
Meaningless to addressing *my* usage of the program (or Morris', for
that matter).
--
"I'll leave the anarchists alone since they usually shoot back.
The liberals wring their hands so much that they make easy
moving targets."
- Capt. Pat Carroll, USAF
Keith F. Lynch
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> If you don't, why not delete the quoted text?
> I often do - note the presence of [...] marks in many of my messages
> to indicate deleted material.
No need for ellipsis unless you're cutting individual sentences apart.
Quoting only part of the message you're replying to has always been
the norm.
> Other times, I just don't see the need. Disk space is cheap, and GG
> hides quoted text when I read the messages, unless I tell it not to.
> Others leaving in quoted material doesn't affect me.
Most people here aren't using Google Groups. And it's not disk space
that's a concern, but the reader's time and attention. Quote too
much, and the reader will just skip all quoted text, even when one
particular quoted sentence is essential to the point you're making.
Quoting everything is like soaking a textbook in highlighter ink -- it
completely misses the point.
Another way to look at it is that a newsgroup is basically an online
fanzine. Who ever heard of a letter in a fanzine quoting *all* of the
letter it's in reply to?
Jay E. Morris
On 2-Nov-2009, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:57:45 -0500, "Morris Keesan"
> <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:14:46 -0500, David V. Loewe, Jr
> ><dave...@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Why download all messages? Headers? Sure. But all messages
> >> automatically? Seems excessive. Then again, I have a 6 year plus long
> >> news spool...
> >
> >I download all messages, even though I remain online while using Usenet,
> >and even though I skip many messages unread.
> >The download happens in the background, while I'm doing other things, and
> >that means that when I open a message, the body is always there
> >immediately, ready to be read, instead of having to be requested from the
> >
> >server.
>
> With broadband, the download normally takes as near as instantaneously
> as to not matter.
And that's true for getting all message bodies. I click on "download all
new message bodies", go to the first new message and before I'm done reading
it all the messages are downloaded.
Jay E. Morris
On 3-Nov-2009, "David Loewe, Jr." <dlo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:01:23 +0800, Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:07:18 -0600, David V. Loewe, Jr wrote:
> >
> >> With broadband, the download normally takes as near as instantaneously
> >> as to not matter.
> >
> >Not if you live in a third world country.
>
> Meaningless to addressing *my* usage of the program (or Morris', for
> that matter).
This is starting to feel weird. My neighbor's first name is also Morris and
whenever she holler's for him I think "what have I done now?"
Being as my wife is prone to calling me by last name when I'm in trouble.
Keith F. Lynch
> Morris and whenever she holler's for him I think "what have I
> done now?"
I've noticed that you and Morris Keesan are among the few people who
have "Organization: A noiseless patient Spider" in the headers of
their posts.
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
>On 2-Nov-2009, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <dave...@charter.net> wrote:
But why clog up your hard drive with messages you may not care about and
may never read?
--
"It's a very sobering feeling to be up in space and realize that one's
safety factor was determined by the lowest bidder on a government
contract."
- Alan Shepherd
Jay E. Morris
I don't, because I'm not interested in keeping a history of Usenet, or even
the few newsgroups I read. Occasionally I delete messages over a week old
so I've never got more that a few thousand messages in the database. And in
rasff (let's not do that dance again) I usually touch every message, at
least for a glance.
Ben Yalow
>Morris Keesan <mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> It's been a while since I used rn that way, but I don't remember it
>> having its own editor, so with that kind of newsreader, it's natural
>> to be using a separate editor program, which gets invoked by the
>> newsreader.
>Yes, I use Emacs to compose nesgroup messages, emails, and all other
>text. For instance when I edit Wikipedia, escape-e invokes Emacs
>from within Lynx.
>I find the idea of every program having its own editor almost
>incomprehensibly bizarre. I'd have to memorize several different
>incompatible sets of editing commands? It would be like having a car
>where the controls were swapped around depending on which road you
>were on. And a good editor, unlike a car, has hundreds of controls.
Yes. But for basic editing, you just need the standard editing commands
(copy, paste, cursor movement, etc.) -- all of which follow the standard
Windows rules for every program. Or, on MacOS, the standard MacOS
conventions.
In those cases where you need something more powerful, then you use a tool
specialized for that.
>--
>Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
Ben Yalow
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:57:45 -0500, "Morris Keesan"
><mke...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:14:46 -0500, David V. Loewe, Jr
>><dave...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Why download all messages? Headers? Sure. But all messages
>>> automatically? Seems excessive. Then again, I have a 6 year plus long
>>> news spool...
>>
>>I download all messages, even though I remain online while using Usenet,
>>and even though I skip many messages unread.
>>The download happens in the background, while I'm doing other things, and
>>that means that when I open a message, the body is always there
>>immediately, ready to be read, instead of having to be requested from the
>>server.
>With broadband, the download normally takes as near as instantaneously
>as to not matter.
Certainly in the lightly used text groups like rasff. Not true for the
busier binaries groups, of course -- but they may have a few hundred
thousand postings in a day, and those won't load instantly.
David V. Loewe, Jr
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>cryptoguy <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>> If you don't, why not delete the quoted text?
>
>> I often do - note the presence of [...] marks in many of my messages
>> to indicate deleted material.
>
>No need for ellipsis unless you're cutting individual sentences apart.
>Quoting only part of the message you're replying to has always been
>the norm.
>
>> Other times, I just don't see the need. Disk space is cheap, and GG
>> hides quoted text when I read the messages, unless I tell it not to.
>> Others leaving in quoted material doesn't affect me.
>
>Most people here aren't using Google Groups. And it's not disk space
>that's a concern, but the reader's time and attention. Quote too
>much, and the reader will just skip all quoted text, even when one
>particular quoted sentence is essential to the point you're making.
But, if something in your new text raises a question, the reader does
not have to laboriously go back through previous messages to find the
relevant passage - it's right there *if you don't OVER edit*.
>Quoting everything is like soaking a textbook in highlighter ink
No. It isn't.
>-- it completely misses the point.
>
>Another way to look at it is that a newsgroup is basically an online
>fanzine.
No. It isn't. It is a discussion board.
You need to quote context. All too frequently, you cut away needed
context.
>Who ever heard of a letter in a fanzine quoting *all* of the
>letter it's in reply to?
--
David Loewe, Jr.
wrote:
I think you responded to the wrong post here. I was referring to
individual posts here and implicitly referring to text based discussion
groups. Jay was referring to the entire feed of new postings and I
believe he was also implicitly referring to text based discussion
groups.
--
"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone's right to
one minute of my life. Nor to any part of my energy. Nor to
any achievement of mine. No matter who makes the claim, how
large their number or how great their need."
- Howard Roark
Lowell Gilbert
I work in the Lowell, MA office of a large company.
That's caused several different flavors of confusion.
cryptoguy
Do people say 'No, I wanted Lawrence Gilbert."?
pt