WorldCon / Dragon*Con the pros and cons of Cons
Jerri
Folks *here* have been to Dragon*Con and WorldCon. Is there really a
compelling reason to choose WorldCon over Dragon*Con if one is trying to
network and sell the fantasy books one has written?
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Joel Rosenberg
news:7O5l7.7680$IP6.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Yes and no. You're not going to sell books by networking, regardless; you
may, conceivably, slightly speed up the process thereby, if you can do it
deftly (as opposed to "if you think you can do it deftly, but are wrong").
You can easily shoot yourself in the foot, at least socially and possibly
professionally, by trying. Realistically, the best way to sell your books
is by the less interesting but more reliable way of submitting them to SF
publishers via mail, following the usual conventions of not including a
stupid cover letter, including a mailing label with return postage,
following manuscript formatting conventions, etc. A very good summation of
how to submit a manuscript to Tor can be found at
http://www.tor.com/torfaq.html#tor_submissions_guidelines -- and, by and
large, it's a good outline for how to submit a book to any publisher.
(It's their ballpark, and their rules, otherwise I'd caution against
submitting a synopsis, as that puts you in the position of being able to
shoot yourself in the foot by writing a bad synopsis. That said, it's not
unlikely that an engaging first three chapters will cause the editor to ask
to see the rest of the book, even if the synopsis sucks rocks.)
(Don't, by the way, submit your book by fax. You must trust me on this,
young Jedi.)
That said, if against all good advice, you insist on trying to go to a
convention to sell your books via networking, you are more likely, so I
understand, to find more editors at Worldcon than at DragonCon. Worldcon
and World Fantasy are, among other things, the closest SF equivalents of
trade shows, and pretty much every publisher is represented at both. World
Fantasy typically has a larger editor-to-noneditor ratio than Worldcon does,
as well.
Good luck.
Jerri
> "Jerri" <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > Okey dokey.
> > Folks *here* have been to Dragon*Con and WorldCon.
> > Is there really a compelling reason to choose WorldCon
> > over Dragon*Con if one is trying to network and sell the
> > fantasy books one has written?
> Yes and no. You're not going to sell books by networking,
> regardless; you may, conceivably, slightly speed up the
> process thereby, if you can do it deftly (as opposed to
> "if you think you can do it deftly, but are wrong").
[snipping here]
> That said, if against all good advice, you insist on trying
> to go to a convention to sell your books via networking,
> you are more likely, so I understand, to find more editors
> at Worldcon than at DragonCon. Worldcon and World
> Fantasy are, among other things, the closest SF equivalents
> of trade shows, and pretty much every publisher is represented
> at both. World Fantasy typically has a larger editor-to-noneditor
> ratio than Worldcon does, as well.
> Good luck.
Thank you for your advice. It was actually a senior editor from a SF
publishing house that *told* me I should go to WorlldCon [to network] when
she read I was planning to attend Dragon*Con [for fun] in 2002. Personally,
I think the idea of meetin' & greetin' in person to try and sell my stuff is
akin to volunteering to have my guts turned into yoyo string, sheerly for
the entertainment value it might afford bystanders. That's why I was asking
the question. Do I want to drag my sorry self to San Jose because she told
me it would be to my advantage, or go to Dragon*Con and enjoy myself. The
editor in question attended both cons this past weekend, after warning folks
not to ask how she managed it.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Ulrika O'Brien
> Folks *here* have been to Dragon*Con and WorldCon. Is there really a
> compelling reason to choose WorldCon over Dragon*Con if one is trying to
> network and sell the fantasy books one has written?
The Worldcon has the Hugos. And it's the annual gathering of the tribe.
DragonCon is not primarily a litcon. From these facts it follows that
far more authors and editors will be at Worldcon than DragonCon. In
fact there's a heterodyning effect. Earlier in the summer I was talking
to a local BNF fanzine fan who also happens to be a major author. He
doesn't go to many cons these days, having plenty to do in physics,
but he was going to Worldcon just precisely because it is such a
networking con for pros. So, yeah, in my estimation if professional
networking is what you want out of a convention, Worldcon is going to
be a much better choice than DragonCon. Two other better choices,
I would think, would be World Fantasy Con, and the Nebula Weekend.
--Ulrika
Terry Pratchett
Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> writes
>Thank you for your advice. It was actually a senior editor from a SF
>publishing house that *told* me I should go to WorlldCon [to network] when
>she read I was planning to attend Dragon*Con [for fun] in 2002. Personally,
>I think the idea of meetin' & greetin' in person to try and sell my stuff is
>akin to volunteering to have my guts turned into yoyo string, sheerly for
>the entertainment value it might afford bystanders.
Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only twice bought
stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't heard of; he'd seen their
work in fanzines or semi-prozines, had met them at cons and had in very
ways become aware of their presence in the fan community . If you're
not a jerk and know how to talk to people, then a certain amount of
careful meeting and greeting (much easier in the UK, owing to the bar
generally being the default state of existence) won't do you any harm at
all.
--
Terry Pratchett
Jerri
> "Jerri" <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > Okey dokey. Folks *here* have been to Dragon*Con
> > and WorldCon. Is there really a compelling reason to
> > choose WorldCon over Dragon*Con if one is trying to
> > network and sell the fantasy books one has written?
> The Worldcon has the Hugos. And it's the annual gathering of the tribe.
> DragonCon is not primarily a litcon. From these facts it follows that
> far more authors and editors will be at Worldcon than DragonCon. In
> fact there's a heterodyning effect. Earlier in the summer I was talking
> to a local BNF fanzine fan who also happens to be a major author. He
> doesn't go to many cons these days, having plenty to do in physics,
> but he was going to Worldcon just precisely because it is such a
> networking con for pros. So, yeah, in my estimation if professional
> networking is what you want out of a convention, Worldcon is going to
> be a much better choice than DragonCon. Two other better choices,
> I would think, would be World Fantasy Con, and the Nebula Weekend.
Thank you. World Fantasy Con and the Nebula Weekend just went on the list,
too ... any other suggestions? Anyone? Anyone?
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Jerri
> Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only
> twice bought stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't
> heard of; he'd seen their work in fanzines or semi-prozines,
> had met them at cons and had in very ways become aware
>of their presence in the fan community . If you're not a jerk
> and know how to talk to people, then a certain amount of
> careful meeting and greeting (much easier in the UK, owing
> to the bar generally being the default state of existence) won't
> do you any harm at all.
Yeah, I understand that UK cons are quite liquid in nature. Unhappily, I
usually fall into a stupor after a mere 2 G&Ts, which doesn't make me the
most lively proponent for my own stuff.
The editor who suggested that I attend WorldCon said she'd once bought a
first novel from a guy who gave her a foot massage there. Since I have a
whole year before the next WorldCon, I think I'll be going the
query-rejection route like a madwoman, just to avoid looking at the feet of
perfect strangers.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Kate Schaefer
An important point to keep in mind when you're networking at conventions
is that that's all you're doing. You're not selling your stories at
conventions. It can happen that an editor will ask you to submit a story
(through normal channels -- mail or e-mail, as appropriate) after talking
to you at a convention, but it's not the standard thing.
After you've met an editor at a convention, it's perfectly all right to
refer to that meeting in future cover letters with submissions. If you've
made a pleasant personal impression, the editor may read the submission
personally, rather than depending on a preliminary reader.
Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)
> any other suggestions? Anyone? Anyone?
Heh. The publishing industry people I know I met on usenet.
One of them even solicited me for material for a (nonfiction) book. Of
course, this was part of a vast "Contact everyone on the newsgroup who
can spell and reason and we'll assemble a book," but I at least
impressed him as someone who could spell and reason. (And I got to
carry the book around at Boskone this year, where he gave me my copies,
muttering, "It's a real book! With pages and everything!")
Those that I've met in person I met, after meeting them online, at
Arisia or Boskone, the Boston-area SF conventions. I wouldn't have had
the nerve to say hi if I hadn't known them already, but I'm a raving
introvert anyway.
I went to D*C this year, and utterly failed to find _anyone_, frequently
including the people I was there with, so I can't imagine it would be
useful for meeting people one doesn't know at least passingly and
networking at all. I have no idea if Worldcon would be any better; I
get the impression that it's a little more focused, but just as
gods-be-feathered gigantic.
- Darkhawk, muttering "TDFM" over and over
--
Heather Anne Nicoll - Darkhawk - http://aelfhame.net/~darkhawk/
I'll take your invitation // You take all of me. . . .
- Lifehouse, "Hanging by a Moment"
Joel Rosenberg
Okay, I'll put it more bluntly: any time you spend networking that you
could be writing is recreational time. I'm not opposed to recreation -- in
fact, I'm in favor of more of it for many people, myself included -- but
it's not a shortcut.
That said, sure -- World Fantasy would be my top choice for the place to
network. I tend to have more fun at Worldcon -- there's people I see there
that I rarely see other places -- but in terms of meeting-and-greeting,
World Fantasy is probably the best deal around.
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>Realistically, the best way to sell your books
>is by the less interesting but more reliable way of submitting them to SF
>publishers via mail, following the usual conventions of not including a
>stupid cover letter, including a mailing label with return postage,
>following manuscript formatting conventions, etc. A very good summation of
>how to submit a manuscript to Tor can be found at
>http://www.tor.com/torfaq.html#tor_submissions_guidelines -- and, by and
>large, it's a good outline for how to submit a book to any publisher.
Ah, it's boring.
<shameless plug>
Take a look at www.michaelswanwick.com/evrel/advansw.html :-)
</sp>
vlatko
--
_Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/nrnm/eng/index.htm
vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>Do I want to drag my sorry self to San Jose because she told
>me it would be to my advantage, or go to Dragon*Con and enjoy myself.
What prevents you from going to San Jose and enjoying yourself?
Joel Rosenberg
"Vlatko Juric-Kokic" <vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote in message
news:qeoaptsh9ega5ibcu...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:42:53 GMT, "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Realistically, the best way to sell your books
> >is by the less interesting but more reliable way of submitting them to SF
> >publishers via mail, following the usual conventions of not including a
> >stupid cover letter, including a mailing label with return postage,
> >following manuscript formatting conventions, etc. A very good summation
of
> >how to submit a manuscript to Tor can be found at
> >http://www.tor.com/torfaq.html#tor_submissions_guidelines -- and, by and
> >large, it's a good outline for how to submit a book to any publisher.
>
> Ah, it's boring.
Yeah, it is that.
Jerri
> Okay, I'll put it more bluntly: any time you spend
> networking that you could be writing is recreational
> time. I'm not opposed to recreation -- in fact, I'm
> in favor of more of it for many people, myself
> included -- but it's not a shortcut.
I've done the writing. I've done the prescribed querying and waiting and
being rejected, and I'll be doing more writing and rewriting and querying
and waiting and [no doubt] being rejected. But I likes cons and I'm going to
continue going to cons, and I'd like at least one con to be a con which
might possibly be beneficial to me in some fashion at some future date. For
me *fun* is Dragon*Con, but someone suggested WorldCon as being of potential
benefit. I just hope it's fun. It sounds kind of dull, to be perfectly
blunt.
> That said, sure -- World Fantasy would be my top choice
> for the place to network. I tend to have more fun at
>Worldcon -- there's people I see there that I rarely see other
> places -- but in terms of meeting-and-greeting,
> World Fantasy is probably the best deal around.
So I'll look into World Fantasy. If it has an URL, I'll find it and
investigate. It's on the list.
Thank you.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
>
>
Jerri
> <shameless plug>
> Take a look at www.michaelswanwick.com/evrel/advansw.html :-)
> </sp>
Very funny. I started reading it, then bookmarked it. I shall take all
advice as seriously as possible. Thank you.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Jerri
>"Jerri" <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >Do I want to drag my sorry self to San Jose because
> > she told me it would be to my advantage, or go to
> > Dragon*Con and enjoy myself.
> What prevents you from going to San Jose and
> enjoying yourself?
Absolutely nothing! [Excuse me while I make a hasty offering at the shrine
of the gods of Chaos to atone for having had one single moment of optimism.]
Whew! That was close.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Andrew Stephenson
tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk "Terry Pratchett" writes:
> Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only
> twice bought stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't heard
> of; [...]
And many of them have prodigious memories. My personal record is
the late Lou Stathis, who read my first novel circa 1978 and made
the name connection some 20 years later when we met by chance. I
am not exactly prolific, so it's not as if his memory was getting
refreshed often. (Some people can _really_ nurse a grudge. <g!>)
--
Andrew Stephenson
Michael J. Lowrey
>
> Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > any other suggestions? Anyone? Anyone?
> Heh. The publishing industry people I know I met on usenet.
>
> One of them even solicited me for material for a (nonfiction) book. Of
> course, this was part of a vast "Contact everyone on the newsgroup who
> can spell and reason and we'll assemble a book," but I at least
> impressed him as someone who could spell and reason. (And I got to
> carry the book around at Boskone this year, where he gave me my copies,
> muttering, "It's a real book! With pages and everything!")
What was the book?
--
Michael J. Lowrey, Editor-in-Chief
Sunrise Book Reviews
Michael J. Lowrey
> Thank you. World Fantasy Con and the Nebula Weekend just went on the list,
> too ... any other suggestions? Anyone? Anyone?
The text-oriented conventions, ReaderCon and WisCon, of
course; maybe Potlatch.
--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
Lucy Kemnitzer
wrote:
I certainly hope that this is not the point of meeting editors -- to
give them foot massages and so forth. I hope the idea is that we get
an idea of what's going on over there on the other side of the desk,
and we are more equipped to present material in a usable way, and
maybe we've even become objects of attention. But. Ick. Foot
massages is not the bargain I would want to make to have my manuscript
taken seriously.
Conversations like this regularly erupt in rasfc, where I believe the
consensus is that you really don't _have_ to shill your work beyond
doing the correct manuscript format and sending it to the right person
in the right protocol, all of which information is right out there,
but that it's nice to be known.
But if it's a hardship to go to conventions because they are far away
and expensive, and the only reason you're going to them is to be known
to editors, I don't think I would recommend doing it. I don't think
that the editors who go to conventions are especially flattered by
people fluttering around them for the sole purpose of being known as
aspiring writers: I think the whole situation is fraught with the
peril of being exceedingly uncomfortable for everybody.
_But_ if you are the sort of person who enjoys conventions, and you're
just tailoring an activity you'd be doing anyway, that's different.
Still. I'd go to the convention I was more likely to have fun at and
to see the people I wanted to hang out with, if I were a convention
goer.
Lucy Kemnitzer
Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)
> "Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)" wrote:
> > One of them even solicited me for material for a (nonfiction) book. Of
> > course, this was part of a vast "Contact everyone on the newsgroup who
> > can spell and reason and we'll assemble a book," but I at least
> > impressed him as someone who could spell and reason. (And I got to
> > carry the book around at Boskone this year, where he gave me my copies,
> > muttering, "It's a real book! With pages and everything!")
>
> What was the book?
_The Red Sox Fan Handbook: Everything You Need to Know to Be A Red Sox
Fan . . . or to Marry One_. Written by the regulars of
alt.sports.baseball.bos-redsox. Edited by Leigh Grossman. Published by
Swordsmith Books.
I wrote about four or five percent of it by page count estimation.
Including the introduction to one chapter ("The Fenway Experience"),
which was a sort of pastiche of my visits to the ballpark.
- Darkhawk, shameless plugging
Ulrika O'Brien
2ive0as.dialup.mindspring.com>, dark...@mailandnews.com says...
> I went to D*C this year, and utterly failed to find _anyone_, frequently
> including the people I was there with, so I can't imagine it would be
> useful for meeting people one doesn't know at least passingly and
> networking at all. I have no idea if Worldcon would be any better; I
> get the impression that it's a little more focused, but just as
> gods-be-feathered gigantic.
Well, ish. Worldcons are maybe half the size of a DragonCon, if
that. Still bogglingly big. Still plenty big enough to not be able
to find even the people you know, or are with, even for days on end,
if you don't use the available technologies and some proven
strategies to track each other. But if the layout is at all well
designed and compact, there are work-arounds for finding the people
you want in human-sized environments.
--
Why, yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.
P Nielsen Hayden
People do remember your work. I had lunch with Jim Frenkel at
Worldcon, and quite unprompted he wondered what had become of you and
said he wished you'd write more. I agreed.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Weblog: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/electrolite.html
Anthologies: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/anthologies.html
Music: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/trouble.html
Lis Carey
<5fcl7.8810$ln4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
Depending on where you live, Boskone and/or Readercon (both in
Massachusetts) could be good choices.
--
Lis Carey
Re-elect Gore in '04
Marilee J. Layman
Haven't been to the Philadelphia Convention Center, have you.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Ray Radlein
>
> I went to D*C this year, and utterly failed to find _anyone_,
> frequently including the people I was there with, so I can't
> imagine it would be useful for meeting people one doesn't know
> at least passingly and networking at all.
But at least we got to listen to each other's melifluous and dulcet
tones over our cell phones and voice mail.
Or maybe that was just static. :-)
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"Well, before my sword can pass all the way through your neck, it has
to pass *half way* through your neck. But before it can do *that*, it
has to first pass *one-fourth* of the way through your neck. And
before it can do *that*...." - Zeno, Warrior Princess
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Ray Radlein
>
> Thank you for your advice. It was actually a senior editor from a
> SF publishing house that *told* me I should go to WorlldCon [to
> network] when she read I was planning to attend Dragon*Con [for
> fun] in 2002. Personally, I think the idea of meetin' & greetin'
> in person to try and sell my stuff is akin to volunteering to have
> my guts turned into yoyo string, sheerly for the entertainment
> value it might afford bystanders. That's why I was asking the
> question. Do I want to drag my sorry self to San Jose because she
> told me it would be to my advantage, or go to Dragon*Con and enjoy
> myself.
It seems to me that if you are not enjoying yourself, your ability to
"network" will be severely compromised.
Clearly, Worldcon is a better place to meet editors (with the possible
exception of horror and dark fantasy editors, who seem to have a decent
presence at D*C), and this is even more the case now that D*C has been
forced to the Labor Day weekend for the next few years. But if you are
viewing the glad-handing as a chore, then I'm not sure you will make as
good an impression as if you are in a more relaxed (for you)
environment.
> The editor in question attended both cons this past weekend, after
> warning folks not to ask how she managed it.
I hear tell that they have large metallic contrivances which are
capable of navigating the airy reaches in these days of modern times.
Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)
> "Darkhawk (H. Nicoll)" wrote:
> >
> > I went to D*C this year, and utterly failed to find _anyone_,
> > frequently including the people I was there with, so I can't
> > imagine it would be useful for meeting people one doesn't know
> > at least passingly and networking at all.
>
> But at least we got to listen to each other's melifluous and dulcet
> tones over our cell phones and voice mail.
There is that. :}
> Or maybe that was just static. :-)
I think the static was maybe the dead zone in the gaming room. . . .
- Darkhawk, who got some weird new games and a
sinus infection at D*C this year
James Nicoll
Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>The editor who suggested that I attend WorldCon said she'd once bought a
>first novel from a guy who gave her a foot massage there.
Ah. For reasons related to a hideous injury, I am quite good
at foot massages. Hmmmmm.
James Nicoll
James Nicoll
P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:15:16 GMT,
> Andrew Stephenson <am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <oXezHIAL...@unseen.demon.co.uk>
>> tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk "Terry Pratchett" writes:
>>
>>> Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only
>>> twice bought stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't heard
>>> of; [...]
>>
>>And many of them have prodigious memories. My personal record is
>>the late Lou Stathis, who read my first novel circa 1978 and made
>>the name connection some 20 years later when we met by chance. I
>>am not exactly prolific, so it's not as if his memory was getting
>>refreshed often. (Some people can _really_ nurse a grudge. <g!>)
>
>
>People do remember your work. I had lunch with Jim Frenkel at
>Worldcon, and quite unprompted he wondered what had become of you and
>said he wished you'd write more. I agreed.
>
both _Wall of Years_ and _Nightwatch_ in the stack in Hay-on-Wye
when I discovered my bank had given me non-negotiable twenty pound
notes and both of those books went home with me when others did
not.
In fact, I did a review of _Nightwatch_ for my Lost Voices
reviews, number thirteen I think. Well before I discovered the inherent
flaw in that series of reviews, anyway.
James Nicoll
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> But if it's a hardship to go to conventions because they are far away
> and expensive, and the only reason you're going to them is to be known
> to editors, I don't think I would recommend doing it. I don't think
> that the editors who go to conventions are especially flattered by
> people fluttering around them for the sole purpose of being known as
> aspiring writers: I think the whole situation is fraught with the
> peril of being exceedingly uncomfortable for everybody.
Being _known_ is not always a plus point. You may be remembered as the
one who publicily said that he didn't care for the books somebody had
written, or you can be seen by somebody else as their bitterest enemies.
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
substitute tin for nit to mail me
http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
"Hello, my name is Anna, and I write trilogies." -- Anna Mazzoldi
Andrew Stephenson
p...@panix.com "P Nielsen Hayden" writes:
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 01:15:16 GMT,
> Andrew Stephenson <am...@deltrak.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <oXezHIAL...@unseen.demon.co.uk>
> > tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk "Terry Pratchett" writes:
> >
> >> Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only
> >> twice bought stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't heard
> >> of; [...]
> >
> >And many of them have prodigious memories. My personal record is
> >the late Lou Stathis, who read my first novel circa 1978 and made
> >the name connection some 20 years later when we met by chance. I
> >am not exactly prolific, so it's not as if his memory was getting
> >refreshed often. (Some people can _really_ nurse a grudge. <g!>)
>
> People do remember your work. I had lunch with Jim Frenkel at
> Worldcon, and quite unprompted he wondered what had become of you and
> said he wished you'd write more. I agreed.
Oh boy, next time we meet, let me buy you and Jim a drink.
There's an irony here but I can't quite name it. Something along
the lines of my point being made, by the two of you being players
in The Great Game. You maybe take such abilities as unremarkable
or so fundamental to the trade as to be beyond comment; but those
of us who have difficulty remembering what we called a character,
back in Chapter Two, find it no trifle _and_ somewhat disturbing.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Andrew Stephenson
jdni...@panix.com "James Nicoll" writes:
> [ tale of a man in foreign parts spending his money to help
> unclutter the second-hand book market ]
All right, you get a drink too. But that's _it_. No one else.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>"Vlatko Juric-Kokic" <vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr> wrote
>
>> <shameless plug>
>> Take a look at www.michaelswanwick.com/evrel/advansw.html :-)
>> </sp>
>
>Very funny. I started reading it, then bookmarked it. I shall take all
>advice as seriously as possible. Thank you.
Even the one about changing your sexual orientation? :-)
Keith F. Lynch
> and the Nebula Weekend.
Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Thank you. World Fantasy Con and the Nebula Weekend just went on the
> list, too ... any other suggestions?
I strongly recommend the World Fantasy Con in 2003. Though I'm not
supposed to say why. Ask me in two months.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected
addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP.
Keith F. Lynch
> I went to D*C this year, and utterly failed to find _anyone_,
> frequently including the people I was there with,
I have heard that DragonCon has about 20,000 people, most of whom are
not really into SF or SF fandom at all.
It sounds about as productive as running into SF fans and/or authors
in the subway system. (Which I actually have done several times, but
not as a regular thing.)
> I have no idea if Worldcon would be any better; I get the impression
> that it's a little more focused, but just as gods-be-feathered
> gigantic.
There are typically between 4000 and 7000 people at a Worldcon in the
US. I don't think I've ever failed to meet someone whom I wanted to.
Usually several times during the con.
I recognized about half the people at MilPhil, and know about half of
that half by name and location.
Keith F. Lynch
> bogglingly big. Still plenty big enough to not be able to find even
> the people you know, or are with, even for days on end, if you don't
> use the available technologies and some proven strategies to track
> each other.
That's not my experience. Especially not with a layout such as
MilPhil, where most everything was arranged along a (not very
straight) line, mostly on one floor, extending from the dealer room,
past the art show and various exhibits, past the fan tables (including
ConJose, which Mary Kay was at, and Capclave which I spent some time
at), past the information desk, freebie boards, voodoo message board,
party board, through a long wide hallway that many of the panels
were in rooms off of, through an immense cavernous empty marble hall
containing bizarre decorations near the ceiling which looked almost
but not quite entirely unlike miniature roller coasters and other less
identifiable things, past the door saying "Marriott" (which distracted
many people who were foolish enough who thought it went to the
Marriott. In fact it went to a *different* Marriott. Fortunately, it
was usually locked, which prevented people from entering, wandering
around, and getting thoroughly confused.), over a skybridge, and down
a long narrow hall in the Marriott which lead to an obscure and even
narrower side hall which finally terminated in the two con suites.
Almost everyone at the con walked most or all of this course multiple
times every day.
Unless someone spent the whole con in one of the few areas I didn't
go to (movie room, video room, SFWA suite, closed parties, con ops,
babysitting, Camp Franklin, and smoking areas), we saw each other
multiple times during the con. Usually multiple times every day.
Keith F. Lynch
> Being _known_ is not always a plus point. You may be remembered
> as the one who publicily said that he didn't care for the books
> somebody had written, or you can be seen by somebody else as their
> bitterest enemies.
True. I lit into one editor at MilPhil for selling my name and
address. I handed over a sheet of what was meant to look like
embossed notarized parchment that had told me that I had already won
over a million dollars, which I had received in the snail a few months
ago. I told the editor to keep the sheet, and any money that I had
won. I could tell what magazine had sold my name to the con artist,
since they had misspelled it in a unique way. I said that for the
first time in over twenty years, I would not be renewing, as I am
fed up with being treated as a commodity to be bought and sold.
Especially if I am sold to an organization that insults my intelligence.
Similarly, I don't shop at grocery stores which charge more to people
who don't carry privacy-invading "loyalty" or "membership" cards.
And at least one chain has dropped them, while others boast of never
having had them in the first place, so this activism does have a
real effect.
It later occurred to me that I may have shot myself in the foot if I
ever decide to write and submit a story to that editor.
(I'm not saying who the editor was, except that it was not Gardner
Dozois. If it had been, I would have waited until I saw him at a con
at which he was not a guest of honor.)
Jerri
> I strongly recommend the World Fantasy Con
> in 2003. Though I'm not
> supposed to say why. Ask me in two months.
Can you remind me? I forgot my dog's birthday last week and am currently
doubting both my mental acuity and my mental stability.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Jerri
> >> <shameless plug>
> >> Take a look at www.michaelswanwick.com/evrel/advansw.html :-)
> >> </sp>
> >Very funny. I started reading it, then bookmarked it. I shall take all
> >advice as seriously as possible. Thank you.
> Even the one about changing your sexual orientation? :-)
Well, yeah! Whatever works, ya know? A girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta
do.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Keith F. Lynch
> Can you remind me? I forgot my dog's birthday last week and am
> currently doubting both my mental acuity and my mental stability.
If I were you, I'd doubt it more if you believe that your dog
remembered its own birthday.
Ulrika O'Brien
mjla...@erols.com says...
Indeed, I haven't, but I'm not sure how I should take this
observation.
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote
>
>> I strongly recommend the World Fantasy Con
>> in 2003. Though I'm not
>> supposed to say why. Ask me in two months.
>
>Can you remind me? I forgot my dog's birthday last week and am currently
>doubting both my mental acuity and my mental stability.
Now, Giorgio's birthday is 3/3, Spirit's is 3/6, and since Smudge is
roughly the same age, I declare his birthday between theirs. And then
the next week is mine. We get all the birthdays over in a week.
Ulrika O'Brien
says...
> Ulrika O'Brien <uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Worldcons are maybe half the size of a DragonCon, if that. Still
> > bogglingly big. Still plenty big enough to not be able to find even
> > the people you know, or are with, even for days on end, if you don't
> > use the available technologies and some proven strategies to track
> > each other.
>
> That's not my experience. Especially not with a layout such as
> MilPhil, where most everything was arranged along a (not very
> straight) line,
Well, that's spiff, but it is, alas, something of a special case. I
didn't actually experience much of the effect I'm talking about at
Chicon, but that's a pretty concentrated venue. I still had the
very weird lost-all-my-roommates runaround for about 24 hours. I did
often feel lost in a sea of strangers at both LA Con II & III
though, certainly at NolaCon II, certainly at Bucky, though at Bucky
I didn't have nearly as much of it as I could have, and felt damn'
lucky. I know Maureen had an afternoon of not being able to find a
soul, and she was the TAFF winner. Once you get several spatially
separated centers where people might plausibly be at any given time,
it's dead easy to miss people for days, especially if you haven't
learned to do things like stay put when you're looking for someone,
or to use the message board, or to head for the fan lounge when you
have spare time, or to organize at least some of your meal
companions in advance.
Jerri
> > Can you remind me? I forgot my dog's birthday
> > last week and am currently doubting both my
> > mental acuity and my mental stability.
> If I were you, I'd doubt it more if you believe
> that your dog remembered its own birthday.
Dogs and children sometimes have to be reminded of their birthdays, also
cars.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Jerri
> >> I strongly recommend the World Fantasy Con
> >> in 2003. Though I'm not
> >> supposed to say why. Ask me in two months.
> >Can you remind me? I forgot my dog's birthday last
> > week and am currently
> >doubting both my mental acuity and my mental stability.
> Now, Giorgio's birthday is 3/3, Spirit's is 3/6, and since
> Smudge is roughly the same age, I declare his birthday
> between theirs. And then the next week is mine. We
> get all the birthdays over in a week.
Oh, you're lucky. Brandy was 8/31, Stormy is sometime in December, Misty is
October, and Heidi is May 11. I'm in July and Rosie II the Jeep is January.
I keep lists. Sometimes, I just don't *read* the list on the correct day.
[sigh]
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Mary Kay Kare
uaob...@uci.edu (Ulrika O'Brien) wrote:
> "Jerri" <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<7O5l7.7680$IP6.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> > Okey dokey.
> > Folks *here* have been to Dragon*Con and WorldCon. Is there really a
> > compelling reason to choose WorldCon over Dragon*Con if one is trying to
> > network and sell the fantasy books one has written?
>
> The Worldcon has the Hugos. And it's the annual gathering of the tribe.
> DragonCon is not primarily a litcon. From these facts it follows that
> far more authors and editors will be at Worldcon than DragonCon. In
> fact there's a heterodyning effect. Earlier in the summer I was talking
> to a local BNF fanzine fan who also happens to be a major author. He
> doesn't go to many cons these days, having plenty to do in physics,
> but he was going to Worldcon just precisely because it is such a
> networking con for pros.
And if it's who I think it is, he was networking physics too. At least
that's why Jordin and I sat with him in the bar for a couple of hours.
MKK
--
Lassitude: Scottish version of grrl power
Marilee J. Layman
<uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>In article <75bbpt4rojs6jlcmn...@4ax.com>,
>mjla...@erols.com says...
>> On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 02:53:29 GMT, Ulrika O'Brien
>> <uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <1ez844e.j64a5gye5ekN@user-
>> >2ive0as.dialup.mindspring.com>, dark...@mailandnews.com says...
>> >
>> >> I went to D*C this year, and utterly failed to find _anyone_, frequently
>> >> including the people I was there with, so I can't imagine it would be
>> >> useful for meeting people one doesn't know at least passingly and
>> >> networking at all. I have no idea if Worldcon would be any better; I
>> >> get the impression that it's a little more focused, but just as
>> >> gods-be-feathered gigantic.
>> >
>> >Well, ish. Worldcons are maybe half the size of a DragonCon, if
>> >that. Still bogglingly big. Still plenty big enough to not be able
>> >to find even the people you know, or are with, even for days on end,
>> >if you don't use the available technologies and some proven
>> >strategies to track each other. But if the layout is at all well
>> >designed and compact, there are work-arounds for finding the people
>> >you want in human-sized environments.
>>
>> Haven't been to the Philadelphia Convention Center, have you.
>
>Indeed, I haven't, but I'm not sure how I should take this
>observation.
Well, it's not well-designed and not compact. It used to be a train
station and there's all these big gaps where the lines were. When
they say the Marriott is connected to the convention center, they mean
by two blocks over a market. I was so exhausted by just the walking
required for the volunteering I did (the actual volunteering being in
one room), I never signed in on the voodoo message boards and ran into
people later surprised I was there. Even healthy people were
complaining.
P Nielsen Hayden
I liked it. The programmming stuff was mostly close together, the
Reading Terminal Market was superb, and you could get just about
anywhere without going out of doors.
Compared to San Antonio or (in particular) Baltimore, it was a
doddle. Really, most facilities big enough for a Worldcon entail some
long hikes; this was one of the better ones I've seen lately.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Weblog: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/electrolite.html
Anthologies: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/anthologies.html
Music: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/trouble.html
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604
I agree. And note that a lot of that was on one level. If the
weather had been worse, it would have shown up even better.
I was cold during most of the convention, since I neglected to bring a
sweater or sweatshirt, and didn't think of buying one for a few days.
73, doug
Keith F. Lynch
> doddle. Really, most facilities big enough for a Worldcon entail
> some long hikes; this was one of the better ones I've seen lately.
Or Glasgow, some of whose facilities were further from others than
some cons I've been to were from my home. Fortunately, I had my bike
with my at the Glasgow Worldcon. I needed it.
Andrew Stephenson
jerla...@earthlink.net "Jerri" writes:
> Dogs and children sometimes have to be reminded of their
> birthdays, also cars.
Er, could you parse that "..., also cars" for me, please? If the
cars in question belong to the dogs and children, the rule about
reminding them seems sound: at any age, both exhibit vagueness re
ownership and property. But, if the cars are also having to be
reminded of their age, I'd say leave well enough alone: mine has
been convinced it's a geriatric, ever since its warranty expired.
--
Andrew Stephenson
Jerri
> jerla...@earthlink.net "Jerri" writes:
> > Dogs and children sometimes have to be reminded of their
> > birthdays, also cars.
> Er, could you parse that "..., also cars" for me, please? If the
> cars in question belong to the dogs and children, the rule about
> reminding them seems sound: at any age, both exhibit vagueness re
> ownership and property. But, if the cars are also having to be
> reminded of their age, I'd say leave well enough alone: mine has
> been convinced it's a geriatric, ever since its warranty expired.
Sorry to have been unclear. Cars must *also* sometimes have to be reminded
of their birthday. However, I choose to sing Happy Birthday to my car as she
clears another 1000 miles. This is long tradition and not to be trifled
with. Since beginning this tradition, at least 3 cars ago, I have never been
stranded by an unruly car. Each car has gloried in my affection and
soldiered onward until we could reach help. Rosie the Jeep was a young
187,000 miles when she was stolen by foul miscreants and rendered inoperable
forever. Rosie II the Jeep is now at 126,000 miles [I bought her at 123,000
miles] and is also performing very well. Fury the Jeep was purchased at
126,000 miles and disintegrated immediately upon leaving the dealer's lot.
[RIP] No song was sung.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
JPSyms
<jerla...@earthlink.net> writes:
>I've done the writing. I've done the prescribed querying and waiting and
>being rejected, and I'll be doing more writing and rewriting and querying
>and waiting and [no doubt] being rejected. But I likes cons and I'm going to
>continue going to cons, and I'd like at least one con to be a con which
>might possibly be beneficial to me in some fashion at some future date. For
>me *fun* is Dragon*Con, but someone suggested WorldCon as being of potential
>benefit. I just hope it's fun. It sounds kind of dull, to be perfectly
>blunt.
>
Just out of sheer curiosity, what do you find "fun" about Dragon*Con and what
about Worldcon makes it sound dull?
John Syms
Jo Walton
> In article <O38l7.8331$ln4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> writes
> >Thank you for your advice. It was actually a senior editor from a SF
> >publishing house that *told* me I should go to WorlldCon [to network] when
> >she read I was planning to attend Dragon*Con [for fun] in 2002. Personally,
> >I think the idea of meetin' & greetin' in person to try and sell my stuff is
> >akin to volunteering to have my guts turned into yoyo string, sheerly for
> >the entertainment value it might afford bystanders.
>
> Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only twice bought
> stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't heard of; he'd seen their
> work in fanzines or semi-prozines, had met them at cons and had in very
> ways become aware of their presence in the fan community . If you're
> not a jerk and know how to talk to people, then a certain amount of
> careful meeting and greeting (much easier in the UK, owing to the bar
> generally being the default state of existence) won't do you any harm at
> all.
There's a definition of happiness which says it's something that's best
achieved as a side-effect of doing other things, rather than sought as
a goal.
I think networking and making connections with people is another thing
like that -- it's actually much harder to do if you are trying to do it,
rather than just having it happen while you're just getting on with
life.
--
Jo J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
I kissed a kif at Kefk
*THE KING'S PEACE* out now *THE KING'S NAME* out in November from Tor.
Sample Chapters, Map, Poems, & stuff at http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
Jerri
"Jerri" <jerla...@earthlink.net> writes:
Since you asked, Dragon*Con is wide open. Anything goes. People are
perfectly free to let their freak flag fly and they take every opportunity
to do so. I enjoy that sort of atmosphere. I don't take advantage of it
myself. My own freak flag is more of an interior thang than an urge to
display, but I love watching people who do take advantage of it. I was
certainly never bored while I was at Dragon*Con, and I drank deep of what
was offered. Fun.
WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
"network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Andrew Plotkin
> WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
> I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
> "network".
Wasn't that the purpose you set forth for yourself in your original
question?
> Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
> promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
> networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
> rigid and unfriendly.
Really, I thought people were advising you to avoid business promotion
at Worldcon because it wouldn't be a fun thing to do. And might annoy
the editors, publishers, etc who are at Worldcon to have fun.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Kevin J. Maroney
>WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
>I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
>"network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
>promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
>networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
>rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
If you go to a convention with the idea of "networking" and "forcing"
your "work" "down" the "throats" "of" editor"s", you run the risk of
alienating those editors. This is true regardless of the convention.
That said, I can't think of anything fannish that I'd want to do that
I couldn't do at WorldCon. And the idea that one can't let one's freak
flag fly at WorldCon is, to use a favorite word hereabouts, risible.
--
Kevin Maroney | kmar...@ungames.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor, The New York Review of Science Fiction
<http://www.nyrsf.com>
Michael J. Lowrey
>
> "JPSyms" <jps...@aol.com> wrote
> > Just out of sheer curiosity, what do you find "fun" about
> > Dragon*Con and what about Worldcon makes it sound dull?
>
> Since you asked, Dragon*Con is wide open. Anything goes. People are
> perfectly free to let their freak flag fly and they take every opportunity
> to do so. I enjoy that sort of atmosphere. I don't take advantage of it
> myself. My own freak flag is more of an interior thang than an urge to
> display, but I love watching people who do take advantage of it. I was
> certainly never bored while I was at Dragon*Con, and I drank deep of what
> was offered. Fun.
That's one of the things D*C borrowed from fannish
conventions: letting one's freak flag fly, indeed, is one
of the great joys of any SF convention worth attending,
since Forry Ackerman wore the first hall costume at the
first WorldCon.
> WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
> I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
> "network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
> promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
> networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
> rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
I guess what folks were trying to tell you was that a
WorldCon or a good regional written-SF con is a place to
have fun AND to make those contacts, albeit in a non-brazen
manner. We're trying to help you find that happy middle
ground where you may do both with pleasure, and create
lasting memories doing it. (The well-intentioned, if a
trifle ham-handed, emphasis by some of us on "written SF" is
because we understood you wrote books and stories, and would
want to meet people who appreciate _that_, as opposed to
dead TV shows and superhero comics.)
--
Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
been going to cons since 1975
first got laid in the aftermath of one
married at one (20 years now)
takes his daughter to 2-4/year
see speech transcript at
http://www.fanac.org/Other_Cons/ICon/i25-goh.html
Jerri
> Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Really, I thought people were advising you to avoid
> business promotion at Worldcon because it wouldn't
> be a fun thing to do. And might annoy the editors,
> publishers, etc who are at Worldcon to have fun.
Exactly! I was asked *why* I thought WorldCon sounded dull ... so I
answered. It sounds dull because I was advised to go there for a *dull*
reason and I was also advised that going there for that reason would be
*wrong*. So far, I'm not sensing a reason to go to WorldCon. Fine by me.
If I'm going for *fun*, I may as well go to Dragon*Con. My question has been
answered. Thank you.
--
Jerri
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
Andrew Plotkin
> "Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote
>> Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Really, I thought people were advising you to avoid
>> business promotion at Worldcon because it wouldn't
>> be a fun thing to do. And might annoy the editors,
>> publishers, etc who are at Worldcon to have fun.
> Exactly! I was asked *why* I thought WorldCon sounded dull ... so I
> answered. It sounds dull because I was advised to go there for a *dull*
> reason
As I just said, you asked about those reasons specifically:
Jerri, a few days ago, wrote:
> Is there really a compelling reason to choose WorldCon over
> Dragon*Con if one is trying to network and sell the fantasy books one
> has written?
And all the subsequent discussion has been *about* that. I hope you
aren't blaming us for sticking to the topic...
If you'd asked "Is there a compelling reason to choose WorldCon if one
is trying to have a great time?", for heavens' sake, people could have
answered *that* question.
I've never been to a Dragoncon. I went to Worldcon to have a good
time, and succeeded most excellently. I also bought books.
> and I was also advised that going there for that reason would be
> *wrong*.
"Not the best reason to go to Worldcon", I would say.
P Nielsen Hayden
Well, the main point of Worldcon, and of most fan-run cons, isn't to
provide a venue for professional networking; it's to have fun.
People who give a strong impression of being there just to promote
their professional effort are often regarded as bores.
Of course, people who show up and are Not Boring often find they've
done their professional efforts a great deal of good.
But we're not just there to be huckstered to. We, too, are more
interested in "letting our freak flag fly," even if fewer of us do so
with the visual extravagance often seen at a Dragoncon. (Fewer of us,
but hardly none of us; the SF costume scene _began_ at Worldcons.)
P Nielsen Hayden
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <oXezHIAL...@unseen.demon.co.uk>
> tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk "Terry Pratchett" writes:
>
>> In article <O38l7.8331$ln4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>> Jerri <jerla...@earthlink.net> writes
>> >Thank you for your advice. It was actually a senior editor from a SF
>> >publishing house that *told* me I should go to WorlldCon [to network] when
>> >she read I was planning to attend Dragon*Con [for fun] in 2002. Personally,
>> >I think the idea of meetin' & greetin' in person to try and sell my stuff is
>> >akin to volunteering to have my guts turned into yoyo string, sheerly for
>> >the entertainment value it might afford bystanders.
>>
>> Some years back, a senior sf editor told me that he'd only twice bought
>> stuff from people he didn't know or hadn't heard of; he'd seen their
>> work in fanzines or semi-prozines, had met them at cons and had in very
>> ways become aware of their presence in the fan community . If you're
>> not a jerk and know how to talk to people, then a certain amount of
>> careful meeting and greeting (much easier in the UK, owing to the bar
>> generally being the default state of existence) won't do you any harm at
>> all.
>
>There's a definition of happiness which says it's something that's best
>achieved as a side-effect of doing other things, rather than sought as
>a goal.
"Yours is the action for its own sake; the fruit of the action is not
yours." --The Bhagavad-Gita
In other words, going to SF cons because you enjoy doing so is a great
reason to go to SF cons. Going to SF cons only because you have a
vague notion that they're how to "promote" yourself is a recipe for
disappointment.
>I think networking and making connections with people is another thing
>like that -- it's actually much harder to do if you are trying to do it,
>rather than just having it happen while you're just getting on with
>life.
I think this is remarkably wise.
Alison Hopkins
Jerri wrote in message ...
I've been committee or helper or attendee on media, mixed cons, SF cons and
a Worldcon. Worldcons are, imo, just like the best of *any* con, if they are
run well. You can Have Fun, honest. The Worldcon that I was insane enough to
help run, despite the 36 hour days, was an absolute blast. (I have this
creepy feeling that if Gytha is involved in 2005, I'll get a phone call....
:)
Ali
Kevin J. Maroney
>And all the subsequent discussion has been *about* that. I hope you
>aren't blaming us for sticking to the topic...
Well, that's a first!
Eloise Beltz-Decker
>
> WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
> I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
> "network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
> promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
> networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
> rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
Sure, if you're only going to a con for business and are going to
try to stay focussed on meeting 'the Good people' all weekend, it's
boring. But you can go to WorldCon and have five days straight of
filking, or comic panels, or lit panels, or mad science panels. Worldcon
has EVERYTHING, including cosplay in the halls and lots of stuff going on.
--
Eloise Beltz-Decker + elo...@ripco.com + http://www.ripco.com/~eloise
Like most members of "Mustela putorius fero," known to laymen as
the domestic ferret, our inquisitive hero (about whom more we shall
shortly read) resembled a shrunken polar bear, toasted by a blowtorch,
suffixed by a tail, and stretched out like taffy while still hot.
- Tristan Davenport, via http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/
Arthur D. Hlavaty
wrote:
>Since you asked, Dragon*Con is wide open. Anything goes. People are
>perfectly free to let their freak flag fly and they take every opportunity
>to do so. I enjoy that sort of atmosphere. I don't take advantage of it
>myself. My own freak flag is more of an interior thang than an urge to
>display, but I love watching people who do take advantage of it. I was
>certainly never bored while I was at Dragon*Con, and I drank deep of what
>was offered. Fun.
This does not distinguish it from Worldcon.
--
Arthur D.Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius in Wile E. we trust
E-zine available on request
Jay Denebeim
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>(much easier in the UK, owing to the bar generally being the default
>state of existence)
That reminds me. The bar at Tropicon is also a place to meet all
sorts of interesting people. Not too many editors though.
Jay
--
* Jay Denebeim Moderator rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: b5...@deepthot.org *
* moderator contact address: b5mod-...@deepthot.org *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.org *
Nancy Lebovitz
Damn.
>interested in "letting our freak flag fly," even if fewer of us do so
>with the visual extravagance often seen at a Dragoncon. (Fewer of us,
>but hardly none of us; the SF costume scene _began_ at Worldcons.)
>
Just an impression, but it seemed to me that there was rather little
in the way of hall costumes at MilPhil. Was I just not noticing,
or was there really a shortage?
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
JPSyms
<jerla...@earthlink.net> writes:
>Exactly! I was asked *why* I thought WorldCon sounded dull ... so I
>answered. It sounds dull because I was advised to go there for a *dull*
>reason and I was also advised that going there for that reason would be
>*wrong*. So far, I'm not sensing a reason to go to WorldCon. Fine by me.
>If I'm going for *fun*, I may as well go to Dragon*Con. My question has been
>answered. Thank you.
>--
>Jerri
>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jerlapoint
>
I'm sorry that you feel that way, as you probably would enjoy WorldCon
thoroughly. The main reasons "I" go to worldcon is to see the friends that I
haven't been able to see at the Local Cons I am able to afford; The Masquerade
and Hall Costumes, either watching OR wearing; the Art Show, which would
usually put a museum to shame; and the Dealer's Room, where else can I indulge
my hobby of collecting obscure non-fiction about Science Fiction?
Let's not forget the Parties(Not one night of the Con had less than 10
advertised open parties, I believe that saturday had over 30).
So as you can see I find plenty of fun at WorldCon. There are plenty of
other things that I do not find interesting that you might, not to mention the
10-20 simultaneous tracks of programming.
John Syms
Ruth Sachter
wrote:
It seemed like a very low percentage of hall costumes to me, too, even
for a Worldcon. Since I don't get to many east coast cons these days
I wasn't sure if this was a current 'regional' difference or I was
just not noticing. I was also mostly in the exhibit hall when not
traipsing back to the Marriott or Hilton.
--
Ruth
ru...@spiritone.com
Ulrika O'Brien
jerla...@earthlink.net says...
Well, *that's* a nice way to set up a double bind. It's not as if
you asked for reasons why going to Worldcon would be fun.
You didn't ask whether the only good reason to go to Worldcon is to
network, (It isn't.) but now you're acting as if you did. You
didn't ask whether going to Worldcon for the exclusive reason of
networking was a good idea. (It isn't, and people were suggesting
that if that's what you meant to ask, it isn't a good idea.) You
asked if Worldcon would be a better networking convention than
Dragon*Con, which it is, that just isn't a sufficient reason to go.
But it's also possible that if Dragon*Con is your bag, Worldcon
wouldn't be. Worldcons are not usually my favorite cons, but
Dragon*Con doesn't appeal to me *at* *all*.
--
Why, yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.
Ulrika O'Brien
kmar...@ungames.com says...
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >And all the subsequent discussion has been *about* that. I hope you
> >aren't blaming us for sticking to the topic...
>
> Well, that's a first!
No, *Who's* on first.
mike weber
<elo...@ripco.com> typed
>On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Jerri wrote:
>>
>> WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
>> I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
>> "network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
>> promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
>> networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
>> rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
>
> Sure, if you're only going to a con for business and are going to
>try to stay focussed on meeting 'the Good people' all weekend, it's
>boring. But you can go to WorldCon and have five days straight of
>filking, or comic panels, or lit panels, or mad science panels. Worldcon
>has EVERYTHING, including cosplay in the halls and lots of stuff going on.
>
All three main hotels we were delaing with sent reps to help promote
the Atlanta '86 bid in LA When they did their presentations, they
were all formally dressed, very proper and businesslike.
Aside from the hotel presentations, i never saw two of them again.
However, the guy from (i think) the Hilton took about two looks
around, bought a membership, attended panels, bought stuff in the
Dealer's Room, and cruised room parties in cut-offs and t-shirt.
One can have fun almost anywhere if one has the right attitude...
--
"If you take in a starving dog from the street and feed him
and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the
principal difference between a dog and a man." Mark Twain
<mike weber> kras...@mindspring.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
Alison Hopkins
Ulrika O'Brien wrote in message ...
Nor me. I'd like some of the stuff, but the thought of 20K attendees is
absolutely horrid.
Ali
Vicki Rosenzweig
GMT:
It's more a matter of how you promote your stuff. For example, if you've
written a book, an autographing session is entirely reasonable promotion.
So is leaving flyers or even free copies around. Walking up to strangers
and saying "Hey, wanna see my manuscript?" works about as well at
Worldcon as it would anywhere.
Similarly, "networking" as in "what do you do? Would you like my card,
Mr./Ms. Editor" won't work, but hanging out and meeting people by talking
about anything and everything works quite well.
As it happens, I went to the Broad Universe tea party one afternoon,
mostly because I wanted tea, and stayed because they also had comfortable
chairs and some people I knew. And some of the people I knew assumed I
must be a writer, and at least one asked if I'd like to write/edit for
her new Website.
I also got to:
ask a somewhat technical question after a presentation about the
discovery of a new dinosaur fossil in the Sahara
eat interesting food with interesting people from two continents
look at a variety of interesting artwork
catch up with old friends (that doesn't usually work the first time,
except that a couple of those old friends were people I'd gone to
school with)
I didn't go to the Masquerade or the Regency Dance; both sound like
you might enjoy them
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Kip Williams
>
> Ulrika O'Brien wrote in message ...
> >wouldn't be. Worldcons are not usually my favorite cons, but
> >Dragon*Con doesn't appeal to me *at* *all*.
> >
>
> Nor me. I'd like some of the stuff, but the thought of 20K attendees is
> absolutely horrid.
Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at http://members.home.net/kipw/
"It's Robots versus Bunnies!" --Tom the Dancing Bug (by Ruben
Bolling)
Alison Hopkins
Kip Williams wrote in message <3B9A2005...@home.com>...
>Alison Hopkins wrote:
>>
>> Ulrika O'Brien wrote in message ...
>> >But it's also possible that if Dragon*Con is your bag, Worldcon
>> >wouldn't be. Worldcons are not usually my favorite cons, but
>> >Dragon*Con doesn't appeal to me *at* *all*.
>> >
>>
>> Nor me. I'd like some of the stuff, but the thought of 20K attendees is
>> absolutely horrid.
>
>Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
>successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
>seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
>Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
>
More like a Fan Stadium, with those numbers! :) Good strategy, thou'.
Ali
Rob Hansen
<uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Well, that's spiff, but it is, alas, something of a special case. I
>didn't actually experience much of the effect I'm talking about at
>Chicon, but that's a pretty concentrated venue. I still had the
>very weird lost-all-my-roommates runaround for about 24 hours. I did
>often feel lost in a sea of strangers at both LA Con II & III
>though, certainly at NolaCon II, certainly at Bucky, though at Bucky
>I didn't have nearly as much of it as I could have, and felt damn'
>lucky. I know Maureen had an afternoon of not being able to find a
>soul, and she was the TAFF winner.
I was the TAFF winner at L.A.CON II and there was certainly a period
of some hours there where I experienced the same thing. I wasn't au
fait with how the whole party thing then worked at Worldcons and was
fortunate to eventually chance on someone I knew who was able to clue
me in.
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004.
Avedon Carol
wrote:
>WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
>I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
>"network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
>promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
>networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
>rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
Um, I think you're missing the point. We go to things like the
Worldcon chiefly to have fun. As a result, I know that if I ever
wanted to sell a science fiction story, the first person I'd mention
it to would be one of those people I have fun with.
--
Avedon
"At holiday parties, Republican political operatives boasted freely about
their success in snaring the White House. A common refrain, told in a
joking style, was: 'We stole the election fair and square.'" (Robert Parry)
Ulrika O'Brien
> Alison Hopkins wrote:
> >
> > Ulrika O'Brien wrote in message ...
> > >But it's also possible that if Dragon*Con is your bag, Worldcon
> > >wouldn't be. Worldcons are not usually my favorite cons, but
> > >Dragon*Con doesn't appeal to me *at* *all*.
> > >
> >
> > Nor me. I'd like some of the stuff, but the thought of 20K attendees is
> > absolutely horrid.
>
> Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
> successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
> seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
> Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
I doubt it very much. And you're assuming that any significant
number of the people I would want to see at a Labor Day convention
would in fact be there. I'm thinking this might not be a good
assumption.
Joel Rosenberg
"Jerri" <jerla...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uf8m7.2795$5r.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
I think that you're missing the point. You asked, very specifically, about
going to Worldcon to "network" so that you could sell your fantasy novels --
it's fairly silly for you to claim that the responses didn't deal with the
better question, because you didn't ask the better question: "what might be
good about going to a Worldcon?" (Although, reading back up this thread,
that's been answered quite well by several people) or "what's the best way
for me to sell my fantasy novels?" (Ditto.)
I'm not sure who advised you to go to Worldcon for the "*dull*" reason of
trying to "network" so that you could sell your fantasy novels, but I think
he or she gave you bum advice, particularly if the "networking" in and of
itself doesn't sound like fun to you.
It's sort of like asking, "should I buy a Leatherman Wave so that I can
change the oil in my car?" The Leatherman Wave is a neat pocket tool, and
well worth having, and you probably can use it to change the oil in your
car, although it would be awkward -- but if what you really want to do is
change the oil in your car, you're better off with the right wrench.
If you like a five-plus ring circus sort of convention -- I certainly do, at
times -- it sounds to me like you'd have a lot of fun at any good, large
convention.
Joel Rosenberg
"Ulrika O'Brien" <uaob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1603e887b...@news.earthlink.net...
I think you're right; if the people you want to see are, say, rassfarians,
that would be a bad assumption -- Worldcon is likely to have a much larger
number and proportion of them. Then again, with 20K people at Dragocon,
there's likely to be more folks who you would, if you met them, find that
you were happy to have done so, than you would have time for -- assuming, of
course, that you and they could find each other.
Nancy Lebovitz
>>wouldn't be. Worldcons are not usually my favorite cons, but
>>Dragon*Con doesn't appeal to me *at* *all*.
>
>Nor me. I'd like some of the stuff, but the thought of 20K attendees is
>absolutely horrid.
>
to do a couple of things which made it not especially fun for me--
I hate being crowded, and the dealers room (NASFIC year) was a firetrap.
I also detest being thumped at, and there was substantial leakage from
the rock music into the public spaces.
I would probably go anyway to huckster if D*Con wasn't opposite Worldcon,
but I didn't do very well and the tables were quite expensive. What's
more, there were only a few small book dealers, and they weren't getting
many customers (from what I could see--I can't remember whether I talked
business with them)--20K people is alright, but not unless they have
a higher proportion of readers. I've heard that there have been more
book dealers in recent years, and I'm curious about whether it's true.
Ulrika O'Brien
jo...@ellegon.com says...
Maybe, maybe not. But the thing is, I don't *want* to go to a
gigantic convention to try to meet new people. Gigantic conventions
are a *terrible* place to try to meet new people, at least in the
way that I meet new people, which is usually slowly, by a series of
conversations, over time. I go to conventions to be with my
friends. I'm open to meeting new people, but that isn't the primary
reason I go to conventions. Going to a very large convention where
I know almost no one, and of those I know, I don't know many of them
by sight, and where there isn't something like a RASFF party or a
fan lounge for me to at least get a concentration of people I know
or am likely to have something in common to talk about, sounds like
one of my ideas of hell. I would expect to be quite lonely, and
most likely would get out of the con entirely and go to Callanwolde
or something.
For the most part, my friends aren't going to be at Dragon*Con, with
the possible exception of some of my Atlanta friends, but most of
them are going to be too busy with the ARTC production while they're
there to be available for socializing. If I want to hang with them,
I'll go to an Atomicon, instead -- that way there won't be 10,000
other people getting in the way of picking up last night's
conversation.
Ray Radlein
>
> I'm not horrified at the idea of 20K attendees, but DragonCon
> managed to do a couple of things which made it not especially fun
> for me-- I hate being crowded, and the dealers room (NASFIC year)
> was a firetrap.
It was pretty crowded, all right. My sister's table was one row over
and a few spaces down from yours, IIRC, and the only time I could
actually *see* you from there was during tear down at the end of the
con. :-)
> I also detest being thumped at, and there was substantial leakage
> from the rock music into the public spaces.
Interestingly enough, for the first time in years, GWAR wasn't there,
leaving the dealer's room a lot quieter, and smelling a lot less like
sweaty rubber and latex.
I figured that they obviously must have decided to go to Worldcon,
instead.
> I would probably go anyway to huckster if D*Con wasn't opposite
> Worldcon, but I didn't do very well and the tables were quite
> expensive. What's more, there were only a few small book dealers,
> and they weren't getting many customers (from what I could see--I
> can't remember whether I talked business with them)--20K people is
> alright, but not unless they have a higher proportion of readers.
I remember doing a rundown of all the dealers in the room over the last
couple of years, and coming up with there being as many book dealers as
any other kind of dealers. Maybe not as many as at a serious lit-SF
con, but not realy all that shabby, either.
> I've heard that there have been more book dealers in recent years,
> and I'm curious about whether it's true.
Up until this year, yeah, I think so. This year, howver, the book
dealer presence was *very* small (Atlanta's SF & Mystery Book Store,
and *perhaps* one used bbok dealer, and that was it); I *strongly*
suspect that it was due to Worldcon.
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"Well, before my sword can pass all the way through your neck, it has
to pass *half way* through your neck. But before it can do *that*, it
has to first pass *one-fourth* of the way through your neck. And
before it can do *that*...." - Zeno, Warrior Princess
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Kate Schaefer
[...]
> Maybe, maybe not. But the thing is, I don't *want* to go to a
> gigantic convention to try to meet new people. Gigantic conventions
> are a *terrible* place to try to meet new people, at least in the
> way that I meet new people, which is usually slowly, by a series of
> conversations, over time. I go to conventions to be with my
> friends. I'm open to meeting new people, but that isn't the primary
> reason I go to conventions. Going to a very large convention where
> I know almost no one, and of those I know, I don't know many of them
> by sight, and where there isn't something like a RASFF party or a
> fan lounge for me to at least get a concentration of people I know
> or am likely to have something in common to talk about, sounds like
> one of my ideas of hell. I would expect to be quite lonely, and
> most likely would get out of the con entirely and go to Callanwolde
> or something.
[...]
Tangentially, giant conventions can be a great place to meet new people,
using the strategy I employed utterly by accident when I went to my first
worldcon: volunteer, and then spend the nearly entire convention working.
The people one meets using this strategy tend to be people who work on
really big conventions (hi, Ben) and people who need help doing
something-or-other. If one volunteers for something at which one is
competent, nearly everyone with whom one comes into contact during the
convention will feel grateful and friendly during the convention and for
many years to come.
One may also imprint on the need to work every waking minute of every
large convention you ever go to, of course, which is one of the reasons I
no longer go to very large conventions. The adrenaline rush from working
on those things isn't worth the exhaustion afterward. It did come close,
when I was young.
Now I go to small conventions where I am likely to see large numbers of
people I already know. Yale Eideken (now there's someone I haven't
thought of in years) once told me it would be like that eventually. Just
like bridge conventions, he said, except I wouldn't be playing bridge. He
was, when he said that, but he knew I wouldn't be (he said) because I
wasn't then.
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there because
> I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts". I could
> "network". Since starting this topic, I've been warned against trying to
> promote my stuff, and against ruining my reputation with clumsy attempts at
> networking. Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
> rigid and unfriendly. Since you asked.
Well... let's say that somebody said, in public, that coming to one of
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan's famous barbecues is useful because one can
promote oneself and do networking there. And let's say that other
people, who had been at my barbecues, would start saying "Well, hum, er,
you know, really... most of us goes there because it's a party, not to
gain some sort of professional advantage."
Would that sound rigid and unfriendly to you?
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
substitute tin for nit to mail me
http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
"Hello, my name is Anna, and I write trilogies." -- Anna Mazzoldi
Irv Koch
<snip and loss of attributions>
> > Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
> > successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
> > seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
> > Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
>
> I doubt it very much. And you're assuming that any significant
> number of the people I would want to see at a Labor Day convention
> would in fact be there. I'm thinking this might not be a good
> assumption.
Might not be. However, in your personal case you COULD simply find the
ARTC (Atlanta Radio Theatre Company) table and hang out with a batch of
people you know from an APA (amatuer press association/club) you're in.
Not disagreeing with any of your posts -- just pointing out the one
loophole.
Ulrika O'Brien
irv...@sprintmail.com says...
As indicated elsewhere, I'm aware of it, it just isn't my idea of a
good patch, given that folks working the table or getting ready for
the performance are, presumably, you know, working the table and
getting ready for the performance. In other words, busy. As I said
in my other posts, for hanging out with Myriadans, going to Atomicon
seems like a much better use of the time and travel costs -- that
way nobody is there for anything but enjoying the con, and there
aren't a lot of extraneous distractions like 10,000 other folks in
the way.
Keith F. Lynch
> Since you asked, Dragon*Con is wide open. Anything goes. People
> are perfectly free to let their freak flag fly and they take every
> opportunity to do so.
Same at the Worldcon.
Other things I like about the Worldcon:
* Interesting and knowledgable people. It's possible to
intelligtently discuss anything. Electronics, history, computers,
linguistics, math, literature, nutrition, music, astronomy, quantum
physics, the DMCA, general relativity, the Internet, cryonics,
movies, Extropianism, religion, sex, Objectivism, chocolate, games,
psychology, art, and sometimes even Science Fiction.
* Friendly and honest people. I've never had anything stolen at a
Worldcon, even when I left my bags out in the open for hours, nor
when I shared a sleeping room with strangers. Nor can I think of
anyone else who has had anything stolen. Neither have I ever been
made to feel like I didn't belong.
* It's in a different city every year, so we get a different mix of
people and ideas. The people running it are different every year,
too.
I've never been to DragonCon, but from what I've heard from people who
attended the '95 NASFiC, I would not enjoy it. Twenty thousand people
under one roof, most with little interest in written SF or books?
I'd do better trying to find people interested in SF while riding the
subway. Sure, they're there, but buried in crowds of people whose
life revolves around collecting comic books, or watching TV, and doing
nothing else.
> WorldCon? I've never been there, but I was told I *should* go there
> because I would meet the non-media types. I could make "contacts".
> I could "network".
You were the one who suggested networking and making contacts. Others
said yes, you can do that, if you try not to come across like a
spammer and annoy everyone, but that you'd do better just to sit back,
relax, and have fun, as most people at the Worldcon do.
> Gee. Sounds like a whole tonna fun, yes? Hardly. Sounds kind of
> rigid and unfriendly.
Your mental image of the Worldcon is diametrically opposite any of
the thirteen Worldcons I've experienced.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected
addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP.
mike weber
>Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
>successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
>seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
>Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
>
D*Con is spread out over about three hotels and a trade center, and i
think different sub-groups (like gamers, various media groups, etc.)
tend to be localised to the individual sites.
I'm not sure if there's a Fan Lounge as such -- it's been a few years
since i've attended.
mike weber
<uaob...@earthlink.net> typed
>
>I doubt it very much. And you're assuming that any significant
>number of the people I would want to see at a Labor Day convention
>would in fact be there. I'm thinking this might not be a good
>assumption.
>
A lot of the MYRIAD crew make D*Con every year...
Nancy Lebovitz
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>* Friendly and honest people. I've never had anything stolen at a
> Worldcon, even when I left my bags out in the open for hours, nor
> when I shared a sleeping room with strangers. Nor can I think of
> anyone else who has had anything stolen. Neither have I ever been
I have--but considering the number of conventions I go to, it's still
very good odds.
> made to feel like I didn't belong.
Ray Radlein
>
> Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> typed:
>
> >Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
> >successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
> >seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
> >Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
> >
> D*Con is spread out over about three hotels and a trade center, and
> i think different sub-groups (like gamers, various media groups,
> etc.) tend to be localised to the individual sites.
D*C has changed locations at least slightly every couple of years for
the last decade or so, but for now the entire convention is located in
two adjacent (does across the street from each other count as
adjacent?) hotels: The Hyatt and Mariott. Almost all of the programming
and events are in the Hyatt, as is the gaming; the art show and
dealer's rooms are in the Mariott.
By sitting by the foot of the escallator in the Hyatt, between the
Centennial and Regency ballrooms, you could pretty much see everyone
who was crossing from one building to the other, at least. Ironically,
the ARTC table is only a few yards away from this point. :-)
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> Tangentially, giant conventions can be a great place to meet new people,
> using the strategy I employed utterly by accident when I went to my first
> worldcon: volunteer, and then spend the nearly entire convention working.
I did that at Glasgow, mostly to lose an unwanted admirer that had been
pestering me for the fortnight preceding the WorldCon (we took the
opportunity to travel around Scotland) and that, having given no sign of
having any interest in SF, promptly paid for attendance in reaching the
con. I groaned and took the first job they threw at me. The suitor got
bored very soon, I met lots of interesting people, and I've got the
t-shirt to boast of.
Allright, so the t-shirt was a large and I fit in there twice, and
people here boggle and ask me "You paid 100£ and then _worked_ for the
guys", but I'm happy all the same.
I didn't land any great responsability, but I was polite to people at
badge control, art-show check-in, and registration (for a short while).
I was intensely proud. :-)
Alison Hopkins
ket...@seemysig.com wrote in message ...
>I loved the embroidered denim jacket that the merchandise booth had on
>display--BUT the supply never got to the con, AND apparently it only comes
>in XL and bigger. Come on, some of us just swim in that size. There are
>women buying jackets, too! Not that there were even any XL to be had. And
>the price--$160?? That's more than I paid on ebay for an authentic B5 crew
>jacket! Are these things hand stitched by blind nuns living in a Himalayan
>temple?
>
Was that a B5 crew jacket as owned by one of the crew or cast? I ask because
I own a crew jacket that was Stephen Furst's, sad beggar that I am.
Ali
Marilee J. Layman
>I will note that someday I will die, and if I am not good, I will be sent
>to a place where they play a tape of piano music 24 hours a day, just like
>the Marriott did. It behooves me therefore to be good for I would go mad
>if I had to endure more than a weekend of that.
At MilPhil, the Courtyards at Marriott ran a tape of screechy tinny
orchestra music all the time. When Doug Wickstrom came in with me to
carry Minicon party stuff out to the van, he said it was probably the
speakers, but whatever it was, I can't imagine having to listen to
that all day.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
mike weber
<r...@learnlink.emory.edu> typed
>mike weber wrote:
>>
>> Kip Williams <ki...@home.com> typed:
>>
>> >Although with that many people, you might be able to use a fairly
>> >successful worldcon strategy of picking a place, staying in it, and
>> >seeing enough of the people you wanted to see as they come through.
>> >Does Dragon*Con have a Fan Lounge?
>> >
>> D*Con is spread out over about three hotels and a trade center, and
>> i think different sub-groups (like gamers, various media groups,
>> etc.) tend to be localised to the individual sites.
>
>D*C has changed locations at least slightly every couple of years for
>the last decade or so, but for now the entire convention is located in
>two adjacent (does across the street from each other count as
>adjacent?) hotels: The Hyatt and Mariott. Almost all of the programming
>and events are in the Hyatt, as is the gaming; the art show and
>dealer's rooms are in the Mariott.
Ah -- sorry. I thought i heard that they were still using the Hilton
for something; it's been a couple years since i was there and they
were using the Merchandise Mart (? trade center across the street;
suddenly that name looks wrong) quite heavily, and i couuldn't imagine
them *not* needing the space again.
>
>By sitting by the foot of the escallator in the Hyatt, between the
>Centennial and Regency ballrooms, you could pretty much see everyone
>who was crossing from one building to the other, at least. Ironically,
>the ARTC table is only a few yards away from this point. :-)
>
Yah -- that was a good spoting post for the WorldCon, too.
mike weber
>On Sun, 09 Sep 2001 08:05:35 GMT, Ray Radlein wrote:
>
>>D*C has changed locations at least slightly every couple of years for
>>the last decade or so, but for now the entire convention is located in
>>two adjacent (does across the street from each other count as
>>adjacent?) hotels: The Hyatt and Mariott. Almost all of the programming
>
>Yes, I would say so, as the street in question is rather narrow. They post
>guards to keep people from jaywalking most of the time, but it's a very
>short walk to the corner and across and into the other hotel.
>
A lot of people nicknamed that street "Blood Alley" in '86, i'm told
-- in those days, i believe it was rather busier (they've done
extensive work on downtown Atlanta traffic flows, if only because of
the Olympics) and there weren't any guards -- also it was raining a
lot of the time, encouraging one to spend as little time as possible
crossing from one hotel to the other.