BucCONeer Hotels
FitchDonS
By the time I unprocrastinated and started making concrete plans
to attend this WorldCon (and spend a week or so in Baltimore on
the side, eating far more crab-cakes than would be good for me),
news of the Convention Bureau's hotel placement problems had been
bruited about. I'm getting too old & cranky to cope with the
complicated arrangements that would obviously be necessary (not to
mention getting too deaf to handle any of them by telephone, which
seems to be a necessary medium for transacting such business
arrangement nowadays), so I'm solving the Problem by not going.
Note that this does _not_ mean that my Attending Membership is for
sale. I want to vote for the Hugo, and get the Membership Packet
(including the Badge, if only to see whether this Con has done
them right), and I figure that this money (and my absence) will in
some small way help out the ConCom, which is surely going to be
grievously stressed by The Hotels Problem.
It's been my experience that getting hotel accommodations through
a Convention/Tourist Bureau has about a 50 percent likelihood of
resulting in a foul-up (though rarely so monumental as this
current one), so I rather wish the bidders for future cons would
announce in advance whether they're going to do this. That could
at least be _a_ factor in deciding which bid to vote against.
Unfortunately, the ConComs probably can't know this as far in
advance as the site selection, so this wish is likely to remain
wistful.
Now I'm trying to decide whether to go somewhere else that week or
remain glued to the Computer and attend whatever Virtual Vicarious
WorldCon it provides OnLine.
Don Fitch
--
Mary Kay Kare
In article <199805170803...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
fitc...@aol.com (FitchDonS) wrote:
> By the time I unprocrastinated and started making concrete plans
> to attend this WorldCon (and spend a week or so in Baltimore on
> the side, eating far more crab-cakes than would be good for me),
> news of the Convention Bureau's hotel placement problems had been
> bruited about. I'm getting too old & cranky to cope with the
> complicated arrangements that would obviously be necessary (not to
> mention getting too deaf to handle any of them by telephone, which
> seems to be a necessary medium for transacting such business
> arrangement nowadays), so I'm solving the Problem by not going.
Oh, no! Don't let that stop you. I've been assured by one of Bucky's
Division heads that they're taking lots of trouble themselves to
straighten things out. She told me to go ahead and fax my reservation
asap. I did and haven't heard back yet, but it's been less than a week.
Look at it this way, if you fax in a reservation and don't get what you
want first go 'round, you can still not go. And if you do get it, you can
come have a wonderful time with the rest of us.
MK
--
Mary Kay Kare
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
FitchDonS
Mary Kay Kare (ka...@sirius.com), in message
<kare-17059...@ppp-asok04--174.sirius.net>, Posted:
<snip cite to my posting>
>Look at it this way, if you fax in a reservation and don't get
>what you want first go 'round, you can still not go. And if you
>do get it, you can come have a wonderful time with the rest of
>us.
You're right, of course... and Vicky Rosenzweig has offered a lead
to another, reasonably close, hotel. But my posting was so brief
(for me) as to be misleading. The Hotels Problem is only a straw
(though the most recent and last, I've decided) on the camel's
load. My hearing is getting so poor that panels, &cet. are of no
benefit, nor, for the most part, are fannish conversations at good
(i.e., small/inimate) parties, and even 1:1 conversations are a
strain (both for me and for the other person). And I seem to be
moving into Hermit Mode, increasingly uncomfortable in large
crowds. Stingy Mode, too maybe -- I still feed (vampire-like) on
the Good Vibes of lots of people havin' fun, but am increasingly
questioning whether an expensive trip to a distant con is worth
the money. Moreover, I'm planning on (and saving for) a month-
long trip to next year's WorldCon... and perhaps one to the UK (&
NovaCon?) as well (though maybe that'll be the following year).
It's a very close call, with which I'm certainly not delighted,
and I'm sure to greatly regret not being there, but....
Don Fitch,
who thinks he rarely does anything for just _one_ reason.
--
SBV...@aol.com
In article <199805220743...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
fitc...@aol.com (FitchDonS) wrote:
> offered a lead to another, reasonably close, hotel.
Eight miles out of downtown, by the airport, is the Courtyard Marriot.
AAA rate is $71.10. No problems making reservations and can be
made online. That's where I'm staying for one night, since Days Inn
Inner Harbor was uncooperative about letting me show up early.
Eight miles isn't walking distance, but it's better than no place at all.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Marilee J. Layman
In <199805220743...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
fitc...@aol.com (FitchDonS) wrote:
>My hearing is getting so poor that panels, &cet. are of no
>benefit,
Hey, I was gonna bring the RGB cable for my notebook for you!
Seriously, I haven't heard from anybody at Bucky whether they still
want me to do this, so I spose I should look up an email address to
find out. I'm bringing the notebook anyway (we'll have enough hosts
there that some of us will have to host from the con).
--
Marilee J. Layman Co-Leader, The Other*Worlds*Cafe
RELM Mu...@aol.com A Science Fiction Discussion Group
*New* Web site: http://www.webmoose.com/owc/
AOL keyword: BKCOM > The Other*Worlds*Cafe (listbox)
Perrianne Lurie
The following is a message from Peggy Rae Pavlat concerning the
current hotel situation for BucCONeer:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Bucconeer Members:
This is an update on our efforts to solve the problems our members are
having getting hotel reservations for Bucconeer. Last week Peggy Rae
Pavlat (Bucconeer Chair), Marty Gear (Facilities Director), Mike
Mannes (Facilities Deputy Director) and Ann Zembala (Facilities
Manager) met with representatives of the Baltimore Hotels, the
Maryland State Office of Tourism Development, the Baltimore Area
Convention and Visitors Association (BACVA), and BioSpherics, the
housing bureau's contractor who has made such a hash of things.
We listened to the hotels' explanation of the problems that they have
encountered not only with our bookings but also with those for several
other conventions that are scheduled prior to ours. We learned that
the state and BACVA and the General Managers of the downtown hotels
have formed a working group, and have been meeting to resolve this
problem as rapidly as possible. We heard what actions BioSpherics has
taken to correct the problems. We and the hotel representatives
suggested additional ways to fix these problems. We believe that some
of these suggestions are being followed.
We made very clear our displeasure with the mishandling of our
reservations and, clearly stated that to a certain extent, they are
still being mishandled. We also gave them some facts and figures
regarding the size and "hospitality clout" of the science-fiction
community, and stressed the fact that this problem was affecting
people's vacations as well as the ability to book flights
(international as well as domestic), arrange leave, etc., and
was giving Baltimore and the State of Maryland a "black eye" which
could do incalculable damage to the Maryland convention/tourism
industry reaching far beyond the s-f community.
Finally we were able to get a handle on the actual magnitude of the
problem. The short version is that we need an additional 327 rooms for
Tuesday, August 4th, and an additional 423 rooms for Wednesday August
5th to accommodate those requests that are currently "in house". We
asked the hotels to give us those rooms and do so at the agreed upon
convention rates. We are pretty sure that we will get some of these
rooms, but we are also certain that we will not get all of them. Some
of this apparent need for additional rooms is the result of apparent
double bookings in the records of the Housing Bureau and should be
reduced once BioSpherics has culled its listing for duplications and
cancellations as well as improving the annotation to be more useful to
and useable by the hotels. (We do not have figures on the results of
BioSpherics researching their records.) We have been assured that
within thirty days after the hotels receive these listings they will
put actual confirmations in the mail.
We are actively working to obtain additional hotel rooms at the
airport and at other hotels within the city. We have added the
following rooms have been as a result of our meeting.
Saturday 5 additional rooms
Sunday 15 additional rooms
Monday 100 additional rooms
Tuesday 135 additional rooms
Wednesday 155 additional rooms
Thursday 150 additional rooms
Friday 85 additional rooms
Saturday 85 additional rooms
Sunday 100 additional rooms
Monday 20 additional rooms
In addition, the Tremont hotel has asked that our members with
reservations call them directly and that they will extend the days of
the stay.
That is where we sit currently. The following is what we need from
you:
1. CONFIRMATION. For the most part, the hotels have not mailed out
confirmations because they have been dealing with the other, earlier
conventions whose hotel reservations were also messed up. If you have
received a CV letter from BioSpherics but no confirmation from the
actual hotel, DO NOT PANIC! We expect the hotels will begin sending
out confirmations at the end of next week. They have promised to move
our confirmations up in the queue, but they still have the other
groups to deal with. If you have received an acknowledgment form
(CV####) then you have booked a room at the hotel shown for the days
shown; it probably just hasn't been entered into the hotel's system
yet.
2. NEED MORE DAYS. If you requested more days than you have been
given, DO NOT ABANDON ALL HOPE! BioSpherics has kept a "waiting list"
showing when the reservation request was received. As we obtain
additional rooms from the hotels, we will assign them based upon the
date of the original request. We will also try to straighten out
those few reservations that were "missing" a day in the middle.
However, if you have confirmations for duplicate date(s), or have
requested rooms starting earlier but have decided not to come in
before Wednesday, please email us giving up your claim on those room
dates so that we can assign them to someone who needs to arrive early.
Also, if you are scheduled into more than one hotel, we will attempt
to solve that problem.
3. HANDLING ERRORS. If the name on the CV letter bears absolutely no
resemblance to your name or that of any of your roommates, or the
rates shown are for the Fireman's Convention in July, then you do have
a problem and should notify us. On the other hand, if the CV letter
misspelled your first name or messed up your zip code or transposed
digits on your credit card or listed one of your room mates at your
address, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT! This type of error won't mess up your
reservation.
4. HOTEL CHOICE. If you have received an acknowledgment for an
acceptable hotel, even if it wasn't your top choice, then we probably
can't do anything to change your hotel. If the hotel assigned to you
is totally unacceptable, then please let us know why, but be aware
that we can make no promises other than to try to find someone that
you can swap reservations with.
5. PASS THE WORD. We are working on this problem and it appears that
we are having some success. Not enough and not soon enough to satisfy
either ourselves or our members whose plans have been left in
jeopardy, but this situation does appear to be getting better. We
still encourage those people who can to stay at an outlying hotel,
stay with a friend, share a room with a friend, or even stay at a very
expensive "4 Star" hotel.
This message is being sent on May 22, 1998. Thank you for your time
and patience, I look forward to seeing you at Bucconeer.
Peggy Rae Pavlat
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perrianne Lurie
BucCONeer, the 56-th World Science Fiction Convention
August 5-9, 1998, Baltimore, Maryland, USA
P.O. Box 314, Annapolis Junction, MD 20701
bucc...@bucconeer.worldcon.org
http://www.bucconeer.worldcon.org
Personal E-mail: bucc...@pipeline.com
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
Thank you for the update, the details and what the con is doing about it.
It is appreciated.
After all this is over, it would be interesting to read why BioSpherics was
chosen for the task of doling out reservations.
Particularly if we read all about it in a multipart investigative series in
the Baltimore Sun.
--
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
"Gadzooks!", quoth I, "But here's a saucy bawd!"
I, Libertine
by Fredrick R. Ewing
Perrianne Lurie
c...@NOSPAMgis.net (Rev. Jihad Frenzy) wrote:
>After all this is over, it would be interesting to read why BioSpherics was
>chosen for the task of doling out reservations.
AFAICT, they were the low bidder.
Marilee J. Layman
In <6k9b8s$tej$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>, bucc...@pipeline.com
(Perrianne Lurie) wrote:
>c...@NOSPAMgis.net (Rev. Jihad Frenzy) wrote:
>
>>After all this is over, it would be interesting to read why BioSpherics was
>>chosen for the task of doling out reservations.
>
>AFAICT, they were the low bidder.
And sometimes you get what you pay for.
mike weber
mjla...@erols.com (Marilee J. Layman) wrote:
>In <6k9b8s$tej$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>, bucc...@pipeline.com
>(Perrianne Lurie) wrote:
>
>>c...@NOSPAMgis.net (Rev. Jihad Frenzy) wrote:
>>
>>>After all this is over, it would be interesting to read why BioSpherics was
>>>chosen for the task of doling out reservations.
>>
>>AFAICT, they were the low bidder.
>
>And sometimes you get what you pay for.
>
The story goes that Gus Grissom was making the last stop of a NASA
publicity tour, being interviewed on a Florida radio station. Long
trip, hot summer, bored out of his tree, getting the same questions at
every stop, every interview.
And the air guy asked That Question: "What do you think of while
you're waiting for the countdown to finish?"
And, instead of the inconsequential answers he'd been giving to this
one through the tour, Gug Gus said: "That there are hundreds of
thousands of parts in that big rocket, and that every one of them was
made by thelowest competitive bidder."
As John D. McDonald tells the story in one of the McGee novels, the
interview aired once, live, and before the next hourly newscast, some
nice gentlemen from NASA's Public Relations Department showed up and
confiscated the tape...
--
<mike weber> <emsh...@aol.com>
History doesn't always repeat itself -- sometimes it
just screams "Why don't you listen to what I'm telling
you?" and lets fly with a club. -- JWCjr
Irv Koch
mike weber wrote:
> >>AFAICT, they were the low bidder.
> >
> >And sometimes you get what you pay for.
> >
> The story goes that Gus Grissom was making the last stop of a NASA
> publicity tour, being interviewed on a Florida radio station. Long
> trip, hot summer, bored out of his tree, getting the same questions at
> every stop, every interview.
>
> And the air guy asked That Question: "What do you think of while
> you're waiting for the countdown to finish?"
>
> And, instead of the inconsequential answers he'd been giving to this
> one through the tour, Gug Gus said: "That there are hundreds of
> thousands of parts in that big rocket, and that every one of them was
> made by thelowest competitive bidder."
>
> As John D. McDonald tells the story in one of the McGee novels, the
> interview aired once, live, and before the next hourly newscast, some
> nice gentlemen from NASA's Public Relations Department showed up and
> confiscated the tape...
I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape. OTOH, Grissom
was almost certainly WRONG. Federal Government contracting practice for
at least 15 years has often, but not always, to award contracts to the
winner on a point system. Low bid is only one of the factors.
Demonstration that they can and will actually do the job bid on is often
another.
However, if it's a big contract, no matter what the contracting officer
does, it often goes to whoever wins the lawsuit thereafter <sigh> ...
and the government often gets it done by both the highest and WORST
bidder despite it's best efforts.
Of course I expect the Baltimore outfit that contracted out the housing
bureau went with whomever had the most local political pull ....
Ulrika
In article <356B4E...@sprintmail.com>, Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmail.com>
writes:
>I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape.
>OTOH, Grissom was almost certainly WRONG. Federal
>Government contracting practice for at least 15 years has
>often, but not always, to award contracts to the
>winner on a point system.
Um, I'm having a reality disconnect here. Fifteen years ago
was 1980, which I have a feeling was a little after Gus Grissom's
last publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion
has to do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
"Yes, indeed, the Lord is a shoving leopard." -- Rev. W.A. Spooner
** Ulrika O'Brien-...@aol.com**
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
: In article <356B4E...@sprintmail.com>, Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmail.com>
: writes:
: >I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape.
: >OTOH, Grissom was almost certainly WRONG. Federal
: >Government contracting practice for at least 15 years has
: >often, but not always, to award contracts to the
: >winner on a point system.
: Um, I'm having a reality disconnect here. Fifteen years ago
: was 1980, which I have a feeling was a little after Gus Grissom's
: last publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion
: has to do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
I had a previous reality disconnect on the subject, because, as
I recall, the original comment about the ships being built by
the lowest bidder came about from a note Wally Schirra posted
in the cockpit while doing the final equipment check before
the crew came on board.
-- LJM
mike weber
Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape. OTOH, Grissom
>was almost certainly WRONG. Federal Government contracting practice for
>at least 15 years has often, but not always, to award contracts to the
>winner on a point system. Low bid is only one of the factors.
>Demonstration that they can and will actually do the job bid on is often
>another.
>
Yeah. Tell that to the grunts who died because Hercules Powder was
the low bidder.
>However, if it's a big contract, no matter what the contracting officer
>does, it often goes to whoever wins the lawsuit thereafter <sigh> ...
>and the government often gets it done by both the highest and WORST
>bidder despite it's best efforts.
>
About fifteen or twenty years ago they caught a metals company here in
the Atlanta area selling "high-tensile" steel with faked
documentations to Electric Boat.
Right.
For pressure hulls.
mike weber
ulr...@aol.com (Ulrika) wrote:
>In article <356B4E...@sprintmail.com>, Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmail.com>
>writes:
>
>>I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape.
>>OTOH, Grissom was almost certainly WRONG. Federal
>>Government contracting practice for at least 15 years has
>>often, but not always, to award contracts to the
>>winner on a point system.
>
>Um, I'm having a reality disconnect here. Fifteen years ago
>was 1980, which I have a feeling was a little after Gus Grissom's
>last publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion
>has to do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
>
I would like, at this point, to state that, while i quoted the story
about Grissom, i have no idea if it is actually true. McDonald quoted
it in one of the McGees, it's fairly circumstantial though
non-specific, and it's plausible and in line with what i recall about
Guss Gus's personality.
((And, though Memorial Day is over, i'd like to take a moment to
remember and to honour Grissom and his crewmates on Apollo 1... and,
of course, the Seven...))
--
<mike weber> <emsh...@aol.com>
The history of exploration is mostly the history of finding
new ways to die unexpectedly -- JWCjr, on the Apollo 1 fire
mike weber
Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
>I had a previous reality disconnect on the subject, because, as
>I recall, the original comment about the ships being built by
>the lowest bidder came about from a note Wally Schirra posted
>in the cockpit while doing the final equipment check before
>the crew came on board.
>
As i said, that's how the story was presented when i first encountered
it -- in one of McDonald's McGee novels, Trav tells the story to the
widow of a test-pilot who was in astronaut training when he augured
in, and she guesses Grissom, which McGee confirms.
If it happened that way, it may well be that Grissom was quoting
Schirra...
P Nielsen Hayden
>Um, I'm having a reality disconnect here. Fifteen years ago
>was 1980, which I have a feeling was a little after Gus Grissom's
>last publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion
>has to do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
I'm having a reality disconnect here myself. Here in the alternate universe
where Superman lives in Metropolis, fifteen years ago was 1983, not 1980.
On the other hand, perhaps Usenet postings from AOL propagate -really- slowly.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
David G. Bell
In article <356bbc1b...@news.mindspring.com>
emsh...@aol.com "mike weber" writes:
> Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
>
>
> >I had a previous reality disconnect on the subject, because, as
> >I recall, the original comment about the ships being built by
> >the lowest bidder came about from a note Wally Schirra posted
> >in the cockpit while doing the final equipment check before
> >the crew came on board.
> >
> As i said, that's how the story was presented when i first encountered
> it -- in one of McDonald's McGee novels, Trav tells the story to the
> widow of a test-pilot who was in astronaut training when he augured
> in, and she guesses Grissom, which McGee confirms.
>
> If it happened that way, it may well be that Grissom was quoting
> Schirra...
It seems possible that the line goes back a long way in test-pilot
circles.
--
Cheap Food \
Safe Food > Pick any two of three.
Healthy Food /
Mary Creasey
Irv Koch wrote:
>
> mike weber wrote:
> > >>AFAICT, they were the low bidder.
> > >
> > >And sometimes you get what you pay for.
> > >
> > The story goes that Gus Grissom was making the last stop of a NASA
> > publicity tour, being interviewed on a Florida radio station. Long
> > trip, hot summer, bored out of his tree, getting the same questions at
> > every stop, every interview.
> >
> > And the air guy asked That Question: "What do you think of while
> > you're waiting for the countdown to finish?"
> >
> > And, instead of the inconsequential answers he'd been giving to this
> > one through the tour, Gug Gus said: "That there are hundreds of
> > thousands of parts in that big rocket, and that every one of them was
> > made by thelowest competitive bidder."
> >
> > As John D. McDonald tells the story in one of the McGee novels, the
> > interview aired once, live, and before the next hourly newscast, some
> > nice gentlemen from NASA's Public Relations Department showed up and
> > confiscated the tape...
>
I've heard that same story, but about Alan Sheperd, and that NASA, after
that, made sure the astronauts didn't see the press alone.
> I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape. OTOH, Grissom
> was almost certainly WRONG. Federal Government contracting practice for
> at least 15 years has often, but not always, to award contracts to the
> winner on a point system. Low bid is only one of the factors.
> Demonstration that they can and will actually do the job bid on is often
> another.
True--my husband's company lost a bid to the company which had dumped
all their folks (which is why his company exists--enough folks to
form one). He told me that the winning bidder will lose money on
the deal, because they can't do the work at the price quoted without
losing money. They must've wanted the contract REALLY bad....
> However, if it's a big contract, no matter what the contracting officer
> does, it often goes to whoever wins the lawsuit thereafter <sigh> ...
> and the government often gets it done by both the highest and WORST
> bidder despite it's best efforts.
Is this Murphy's Law in action again? <sigh> I've worked for the Postal
Service for 25 years, 15 as a mechanic/technician, and I have yet to
see Murphy's Law DISproved...
Mary the Filker
>
>
Ed Dravecky III
Ulrika (ulr...@aol.com) wrote:
> Um, I'm having a reality disconnect here. Fifteen years ago
> was 1980, which I have a feeling was a little after Gus Grissom's
> last publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion
> has to do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
I like the phrase "last publicity tour for NASA" so much I might
just have to steal that as my new favorite eupehemism for death.
For those of you playing at home, Virgil I. "Gus" Grissom died
in the "Apollo 1" fire along with Roger B. Chaffee and Ed White
in January, 1967. A rather horrifying version of this fire can
be seen in the opening moments of the movie "Apollo 13".
BTW, as soon as I can find my copy of Bill Easterling's "The
Light Stuff" (a must have reference/comedy book for space
program enthusiasts) I can confirm/deny the exact circumstances
under which Gus Grissom aired those concerns. (It *was* Gus
although the thought may not have been original with him...)
--
Ed Dravecky <+> Dallas
dsheldon(at)netcom.com
Chris Croughton
Ulrika wrote:
> O, curse! O, spite! Somebody noticed. Now I will have to be
> translated back to homeworld and construct a whole new
> false persona. Next time, I'm holding out for the tendrils -and-
> the shoulder dragon.
I wanted to translate you back to Swedish, but the closest I could get
was to translate you into German and then into French:
O, Fluch! O, Bosheit! Jemand beachtete. Jetzt muß ich zurück zu
homeworld übersetzt werden und ein vollständiges neues falsches persona
konstruieren. Folgendes Mal, halte ich heraus für die tendrils -und-
Schulterdrache an.
O, malédiction! O, Bosheit! Quelqu'un a considéré Maintenant je dois
être trop en arrière traduit homeworld et être conçu un nouveau persona
faux complet. La marque, la notion I dehors pour des tendrils - et la
vengeance suivantes de la terre de Schult.
(I'm not certain about the 'vengeance' and the "earth of the Schult",
but the rest isn't bad for a mechanical translator. Since it's better
than I am at translating it passes at least part of the Turing test. I
particularly like the "O, malédiction!"...)
[Courtesy of the Altavista Language Transmogrifier at
http://www.archive.org/~art/babelphone.html, which uses the Babelfish
translator at http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com]
> More like, temporal awareness propagates -really- slowly across
> some people's synaptic gaps. I'm also still 22, you know.
Is someone disputing it? The vile calumnous knave, to so impugn a
lady's honour!
Chris C, who once had the years go backwards...
Doug Wickstrom
On Wed, 27 May 1998 07:11:21 GMT, emsh...@aol.com (mike weber)
modulated the bit stream to say:
>Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
>
>
>>I had a previous reality disconnect on the subject, because, as
>>I recall, the original comment about the ships being built by
>>the lowest bidder came about from a note Wally Schirra posted
>>in the cockpit while doing the final equipment check before
>>the crew came on board.
>>
>As i said, that's how the story was presented when i first encountered
>it -- in one of McDonald's McGee novels, Trav tells the story to the
>widow of a test-pilot who was in astronaut training when he augured
>in, and she guesses Grissom, which McGee confirms.
>
>If it happened that way, it may well be that Grissom was quoting
>Schirra...
Who might well have been quoting "Murphy's Laws of Combat," which
points out that everything a soldier carries was produced by the
lowest bidder. Parts of MLOC goback to at least WWII.
--
Doug Wickstrom
E-mail replies go to a seldom checked mailbox. To ensure a
timely response, remove "X" and replace "aol.com" with
worldnet.att.net. AOLers reply to nimshubur. Mail from "Free"
e-mail domains goes straight to the bit bucket.
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, mike weber <emsh...@aol.com> wrote:
: ((And, though Memorial Day is over, i'd like to take a moment to
: remember and to honour Grissom and his crewmates on Apollo 1... and,
: of course, the Seven...))
Getting on a rocket that hasn't been known to explode is an act
of bravery. Getting on a rocket when you know a previous generation
of the same rocket has gone up in flames ... I'm not sure I could
have done it.
I had a fairly grim Memorial Day this year, more so than usual.
I couldn't help thinking that the local veterans had enough on
their plates without the added burden of sharing the day with
a funeral for a high school student shot by a lunatic.
There didn't seem to be any way to parse the day in any way that
came out with a positive message.
-- LJM
Gary J. Ehrlich
Perrianne Lurie wrote:
> Convention and Visitors Association (BACVA), and BioSpherics, the
> housing bureau's contractor who has made such a hash of things.
That's interesting...I thought Biospherics had a pretty well-reputed
Information Services department...they run a bunch of telephone
hotlines, among other things.
-- Gary
--
"Gorgeous" Gary Ehrlich
Visit Electro's Hideaway!!
http://www.access.digex.net/~electro/electro.html
"Life is a bowl of Oreo cookies" -- Urban Tapestry
aRJay
In an article using recycled electrons Ulrika wrote :-
>In article <6kgs3r$f...@news1.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
>writes:
>
>>I'm having a reality disconnect here myself. Here in the alternate >universe
>where Superman lives in Metropolis, fifteen years ago
>>was 1983, not 1980.
>
>O, curse! O, spite! Somebody noticed. Now I will have to be
>translated back to homeworld and construct a whole new
>false persona. Next time, I'm holding out for the tendrils -and-
>the shoulder dragon.
>
>>On the other hand, perhaps Usenet postings from AOL propagate >-really-
>slowly.
>
>More like, temporal awareness propagates -really- slowly across
>some people's synaptic gaps. I'm also still 22, you know.
>
Your that old!!!
--
aRJay (Who realy ought to stop eating so many of those Atomic Fire Balls you
sold him at Intuition)
mike weber
Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom, mike weber <emsh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>: ((And, though Memorial Day is over, i'd like to take a moment to
>: remember and to honour Grissom and his crewmates on Apollo 1... and,
>: of course, the Seven...))
>
>Getting on a rocket that hasn't been known to explode is an act
>of bravery. Getting on a rocket when you know a previous generation
>of the same rocket has gone up in flames ... I'm not sure I could
>have done it.
>
As i've quoted before, Bertrand Brinley's -Amateur Rocket Manual-
says: "A rocket is a bomb with a hole in one end."
>I had a fairly grim Memorial Day this year, more so than usual.
>I couldn't help thinking that the local veterans had enough on
>their plates without the added burden of sharing the day with
>a funeral for a high school student shot by a lunatic.
>
>There didn't seem to be any way to parse the day in any way that
>came out with a positive message.
How about "So far as i know, we're not currently creating any more
names to honour on Memorial Day"?
Ray Radlein
Loren Joseph MacGregor wrote:
>
> Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
> : Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmail.com> writes:
>
> : >I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape. OTOH,
> : >practice for at least 15 years has often, but not always, to award
> : >contracts to the winner on a point system.
>
> : publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion has to
> : do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
>
> recall, the original comment about the ships being built by the
> lowest bidder came about from a note Wally Schirra posted in the
> cockpit while doing the final equipment check before the crew came
> on board.
Actually, it's an Ancient Chinese Saying.
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Yes, orphan," Merlin said to Arthur, "you are now a True King; and it
is yourself that has made you so, as it must be. And now you realize
the second great truth -- that this is indeed the Magic Sword [...]
FOR THE MAGIC SWORD IS THE ONE WITH A TRUE KING AT THE HILT."
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
Loren Joseph MacGregor
: >In rec.arts.sf.fandom, mike weber <emsh...@aol.com> wrote:
: >
: >: ((And, though Memorial Day is over, i'd like to take a moment to
: >: remember and to honour Grissom and his crewmates on Apollo 1... and,
: >: of course, the Seven...))
: >
: >Getting on a rocket that hasn't been known to explode is an act
: >of bravery. Getting on a rocket when you know a previous generation
: >of the same rocket has gone up in flames ... I'm not sure I could
: >have done it.
: >
: As i've quoted before, Bertrand Brinley's -Amateur Rocket Manual-
: says: "A rocket is a bomb with a hole in one end."
: >I had a fairly grim Memorial Day this year, more so than usual.
: >I couldn't help thinking that the local veterans had enough on
: >their plates without the added burden of sharing the day with
: >a funeral for a high school student shot by a lunatic.
: >
: >There didn't seem to be any way to parse the day in any way that
: >came out with a positive message.
: How about "So far as i know, we're not currently creating any more
: names to honour on Memorial Day"?
At the same time that the shouting was going on in Thurston High
School, another school in Oregon was locked down because of a
warning that a student was known to be in possession of guns he
had stolen from the home of a police official, and was rumored
to be at or heading towards the school. There was a brief snippet
about this on the local news, but the story quickly submerged
into the larger and more tragic event. I spoke with one woman
whose husband was a teacher at the school. She said, "Someone
complained that the officials were unnecessarily harsh, ordering
people to stay put. She was referring to my husband, who would
not excuse her from class to go to the bathroom."
And then two other students, apparently copycats, were arrested
before any damage was done, in Grants Pass and Klamath Falls.
And the predictable fight has come to the fore, between those who
don't want anyone to have guns of any kind, and those who seem
to want everyone to be armed.
And people are supporting reductions in personal liberties because
it is necessary to ensure that "no more Thurstons" take place.
But you're right, there is no immediate memorial, and although
there are military personnel scattered around the world, no -major-
war looks as if it will need a Memorial Day in the near future.
Sorry; I'm just a bit depressed right at the moment. I'll get
better soon.
-- LJM
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Ray Radlein <r...@learnlink.emory.edu> wrote:
: Loren Joseph MacGregor wrote:
: >
: > Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
: > : Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmail.com> writes:
: >
: > : >I wouldn't be too surprised either way about the tape. OTOH,
: > : >Grissom was almost certainly WRONG. Federal Government contracting
: > : >practice for at least 15 years has often, but not always, to award
: > : >contracts to the winner on a point system.
: >
: > : Um, I'm having a reality disconnect here. Fifteen years ago was
: > : 1980, which I have a feeling was a little after Gus Grissom's last
: > : publicity tour for NASA, so I'm not sure what your assertion has to
: > : do with Grissom being right or wrong at the time.
: >
: > I had a previous reality disconnect on the subject, because, as I
: > recall, the original comment about the ships being built by the
: > lowest bidder came about from a note Wally Schirra posted in the
: > cockpit while doing the final equipment check before the crew came
: > on board.
: Actually, it's an Ancient Chinese Saying.
Is that the Ancient Chinese Saying that originated in Greece, or
the Welsh Ancient Chinese Saying? I keep getting them confused.
One of them, I'm pretty sure, has wovels.
-- LJM
Chris Croughton
I had one but the wovels fell off...
Chris C
Rob Hansen
On 28 May 1998 05:39:58 GMT, Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org>
wrote:
>At the same time that the shouting was going on in Thurston High
>School, another school in Oregon was locked down because of a
>warning that a student was known to be in possession of guns he
>had stolen from the home of a police official, and was rumored
>to be at or heading towards the school. There was a brief snippet
>about this on the local news, but the story quickly submerged
>into the larger and more tragic event. I spoke with one woman
>whose husband was a teacher at the school. She said, "Someone
>complained that the officials were unnecessarily harsh, ordering
>people to stay put. She was referring to my husband, who would
>not excuse her from class to go to the bathroom."
>
>And then two other students, apparently copycats, were arrested
>before any damage was done, in Grants Pass and Klamath Falls.
>
>And the predictable fight has come to the fore, between those who
>don't want anyone to have guns of any kind, and those who seem
>to want everyone to be armed.
With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
inevitably has consequences.
Rob Hansen
================================================
My Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
Feminists Against Censorship:
http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/
Beth Friedman
Ed Dravecky III <dshe...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<dsheldonE...@netcom.com>...
> BTW, as soon as I can find my copy of Bill Easterling's "The
> Light Stuff" (a must have reference/comedy book for space
> program enthusiasts) I can confirm/deny the exact circumstances
> under which Gus Grissom aired those concerns. (It *was* Gus
> although the thought may not have been original with him...)
The other "must have" book of that genre is A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE
WAY TO THE MOON, author and title unknown, because I lent it out and never
got it back.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Beth Friedman
Beth Friedman <b...@wavefront.com> wrote in article
<01bd8a69$45114200$93d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>...
> The other "must have" book of that genre is A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON
> THE WAY TO THE MOON, author and title unknown, because I lent it out and
> never got it back.
Let's try that again, shall we?
Author and publisher unknown.
--
Beth Friedman
b...@wavefront.com
Evelyn C. Leeper
In article <01bd8a69$c273a580$93d0...@bjf.wavefront.com>,
Lois C. Philmus, Books Inc., 1966. There is a copy listed in
bibliofind for $25.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper | ele...@lucent.com
+1 732 957 2070 | http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4824
"What has the study of biology taught you about the Creator, Dr. Haldane?"
"I'm not sure, but He seems to be inordinately fond of beetles."
Linda Krawecke
In article <357a1de9....@news.demon.co.uk>, Rob Hansen
<r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
>. This is a
>choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
>inevitably has consequences.
>
Well, gee, Rob...I've a part of that society and I didn't have any damn
choice.
--
Linda Krawecke
Gary Farber
In <357a1de9....@news.demon.co.uk>
Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[. . .]
: With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
This is a considerably exaggerated notion, unless you're talking about
paying thousands of dollars to violate the law and own an illegal weapon,
which one can do in Britain just the same. Most large US cities do not,
in fact, allow casual ownership of guns; if I want to carry a gun in NYC,
I'd have to prove a work-related need, apply for several permits, etc. At
present, of course, I wouldn't be able to prove any such need (only a rare
number of people can), and am thus not legally entitled to carry a
handgun; nor do I have a permit to own one. But why let this fact get in
the way of a good stereotype?
State gun laws, and city laws, vary dramatically.
OTOH, this bears alarming signs of being a thread that should go where
gun-threads properly go: r.a.sf.w.
[. . . .]
--
Copyright 1998 by Gary Farber; Web Researcher; Nonfiction Writer,
Fiction and Nonfiction Editor; gfa...@panix.com; B'klyn, NYC, US
John Dallman
In article <356CA7...@access.digex.net>, ele...@access.digex.net (Gary
J. Ehrlich) wrote:
> That's interesting...I thought Biospherics had a pretty well-reputed
> Information Services department...
Not any more. Not round here, anyway. I think they've achieved the same
status at Concorde Service did for Intersection, the '95 worldcon. Running
another con in the same city and using the same company for room bookings
means you're a loosing bid. No matter what else.
---
John Dallman j...@cix.co.uk
Joel Rosenberg
Gary Farber wrote in message <6kkgja$p...@news1.panix.com>...
>In <357a1de9....@news.demon.co.uk>
>Rob Hansen <r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[. . .]
>
>: With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
>
>This is a considerably exaggerated notion, unless you're talking about
>paying thousands of dollars to violate the law and own an illegal weapon,
>which one can do in Britain just the same. Most large US cities do not,
>in fact, allow casual ownership of guns; if I want to carry a gun in NYC,
>I'd have to prove a work-related need, apply for several permits, etc
I'm fairly sure one could purchase an handgun (illegally, of course) in NYC
for an order of magnitude less than thousands of dollars, given that the
last time I heard about reporters going out to do just that to demonstrate
how easy it was, they were easily able to get guns for between $200 and
$300. (How many ATM muggings is that? I honestly don't know, but it can't
be a lot.)
As a reality check, $300 was apparently the going rate out here for the
"straw man" purchases that the Feds did a Nerf sting on. (The top jail
sentence went to a fellow that they had, cold, for 50 such purchases -- each
one of which is worth ten years. He got 41 months.)
Assuming you're willing to violate the law (and given the sentences and the
low likelihood of being caught in the first place, there's not much
deterrance), there's no particular reason for a lowlife not to buy a gun
every week or so for, say, $100 (there's enough cheap stuff out there) and
sell it to one's friendly neighborhood drug dealer for, say, $300.
Probably a lot less than an hour's work involved, and $200/hour is good
money.
John Boston
In article <357a1de9....@news.demon.co.uk>, r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk
says...
>With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
>something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
>inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
>they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
>committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
>have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
>preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
>as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
>is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
>choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
>inevitably has consequences.
You obviously do not understand the United States. Our choices do
not have consequences. Bad things happen because bad people do them. We
know how to solve these problems. If something bad happens, we just
identify the people who are bad and crack down on them. Like these rotten
kids: we'll prosecute them as adults and show them a thing or two. That'll
take care of the problem. If it doesn't work right away, we'll crack down
some more.
John Boston
Ray Radlein
Rob Hansen wrote:
>
> Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
> >
> >And the predictable fight has come to the fore, between those who
> >don't want anyone to have guns of any kind, and those who seem
> >to want everyone to be armed.
>
> something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
> inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
> they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
> committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
> have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
> preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
> as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
> is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
> choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
> inevitably has consequences.
I blames Heinlein, I does. I'm sure it must be all his fault somehow.
Peter Card
John Dallman sez ..
>> That's interesting...I thought Biospherics had a pretty well-reputed
>> Information Services department...
>Not any more. Not round here, anyway. I think they've achieved the same
>status at Concorde Service did for Intersection, the '95 worldcon.
The only problem with the Intersection housing operation that I recall
was with the room rates - there didn't seem to be much of discount for
convention rates, if any. There is also a cultural divide problem here,
as UK hotel rates are generally higher than US rates for the same class
of accommodation. However, they ~did~ get everyone a room. The other big
problem was really an unavoidable result of using the SECC - the hotels
were mostly a fair way from the Con ~ 15 minutes on foot. Then there was
the shower sensitive nuclear alert simulating fire alarm system in my
hotel, but you can't really blame the housing office for that. (no, it
wasn't me, but at least one guest failed to close their bathroom door
before showering, as clearly requested on the notice. The Glasgow fire
brigade were not pleased)
>Running another con in the same city and using the same company for room bookings
>means you're a loosing bid. No matter what else.
Que? I don't quite follow that.
--
----------------------------------------------------------
email Peter...@jet.uk || 10001...@compuserve.com
+++ ERROR AT ADDRESS: 11 Treacle St., Ankh-Morpork +++
+++ DIVIDE BY CUCUMBER ERROR. Reinstall Universe and Reboot
Elisabeth Carey
Rob Hansen wrote:
<snip>
> With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
> something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
> inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
> they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
> committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
> have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
> preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
> as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
> is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
> choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
> inevitably has consequences.
Even though I'm very much in favor of somewhat more rational gun laws
than we presently have, I do feel compelled to point out that guns
have been legal in the USA for a very long time, and several if not
_all_ of these recent incidents have been in places where gun
ownership not only is but has been common for a long time--yet the
incidents _are_ a recent spate, not something we've been enduring for
a long time.
I think we ought to be a lot more careful about who we let have a gun,
but it's not the guns that create the desire to go out and kill
people. If the only thing we do in response to this recent spate of
killings is take away the tools, we will be doing exactly _nothing_ to
address to the real causes, and saying it's just fine and dandy with
us if people are angry and miserable to the point of being homicidal,
just so long as they can't kill too many people when they finally
snap.
Of course, that latter _is_ a choice that the UK has made, in the
aftermath of Dunblane, right?
Lis Carey
Arthur Hlavaty
Ray Radlein (r...@learnlink.emory.edu) wrote:
: Rob Hansen wrote:
: >
: > Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
: > >
: > >And the predictable fight has come to the fore, between those who
: > >to want everyone to be armed.
: > With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
: > something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
: > inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
: > they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
: > committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
: > have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
: > preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
: > as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
: > is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
: > choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
: > inevitably has consequences.
: I blames Heinlein, I does. I'm sure it must be all his fault somehow.
Ed Anger. He was the one who suggested that the answer to child
molestation was to arm our nation's children.
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius In Wile E. We Trust
\\\ E-zine available on request. ///
David Power
John Dallman wrote:
>
> Not any more. Not round here, anyway. I think they've achieved the same
> another con in the same city and using the same company for room bookings
> means you're a loosing bid. No matter what else.
The problems with biospherics are several orders of magnitude worse than
the hassle with concorde services. Concorde did at least have the excuse
of having their comms etc damaged by the flooding that also effected the
rail line which should have been running regular services past the
convention center into down.
David Power.
Rob Hansen
On Fri, 29 May 1998 06:47:14 -0400, Elisabeth Carey
<lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Rob Hansen wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
>> something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
>> inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
>> they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
>> committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
>> have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
>> preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
>> as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
>> is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
>> choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
>> inevitably has consequences.
>
>Even though I'm very much in favor of somewhat more rational gun laws
>than we presently have, I do feel compelled to point out that guns
>have been legal in the USA for a very long time, and several if not
>_all_ of these recent incidents have been in places where gun
>ownership not only is but has been common for a long time--yet the
>incidents _are_ a recent spate, not something we've been enduring for
>a long time.
>
>I think we ought to be a lot more careful about who we let have a gun,
>but it's not the guns that create the desire to go out and kill
>people. If the only thing we do in response to this recent spate of
>killings is take away the tools, we will be doing exactly _nothing_ to
>address to the real causes, and saying it's just fine and dandy with
>us if people are angry and miserable to the point of being homicidal,
>just so long as they can't kill too many people when they finally
>snap.
>
>Of course, that latter _is_ a choice that the UK has made, in the
>aftermath of Dunblane, right?
Pretty much, yeah. Personally, I think our extreme - no guns for
anyone, even for members of gun sports clubs (which have all now had
to close down) - is as deranged as your extreme of having guns be so
ubiquitous that the recent spate of school massacres could result.
Ed Dravecky III
Rob Hansen (r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> Pretty much, yeah. Personally, I think our extreme - no guns for
> anyone, even for members of gun sports clubs (which have all now had
> to close down) - is as deranged as your extreme of having guns be so
> ubiquitous that the recent spate of school massacres could result.
This is patently unfair since the Jonesboro, Arkansas, shootings
were done with rifles stolen from a licensed animal control officer
who would have had these weapons even under the most thorough gun
control laws imaginable. I'm all for some form of gun control but
this thought that guns are "so ubiquitous" is just plain wrong.
I suppose the "ubiquitous" nature of genitalia causes all rape in
the UK? Or the "ubiquitous" nature of hands causes all fist
fights? Anybody proposing pre-emptive removals of these appendages
to prevent these crimes fro occuring? (I sure hope not...)
--
Ed Dravecky <+> Dallas
dsheldon(at)netcom.com
Mike Scott
On Fri, 29 May 1998 15:45:19 GMT, r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk (Rob Hansen)
wrote:
>Pretty much, yeah. Personally, I think our extreme - no guns for
>anyone, even for members of gun sports clubs (which have all now had
>to close down) - is as deranged as your extreme of having guns be so
>ubiquitous that the recent spate of school massacres could result.
That's no *hand*guns for anyone, and there are plenty of gun clubs still
going for people shooting rifles.
--
Mike Scott
mi...@moose.demon.co.uk
http://www.moose.demon.co.uk
Elisabeth Carey
Mike Scott wrote:
>
> On Fri, 29 May 1998 15:45:19 GMT, r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk (Rob Hansen)
> wrote:
>
> >Pretty much, yeah. Personally, I think our extreme - no guns for
> >anyone, even for members of gun sports clubs (which have all now had
> >to close down) - is as deranged as your extreme of having guns be so
> >ubiquitous that the recent spate of school massacres could result.
>
> That's no *hand*guns for anyone, and there are plenty of gun clubs > still
> going for people shooting rifles.
And the weapons used in the school shootings have been rifles, and the
rifles used in the Jonesboro shooting were stolen from an animal
control officer. So we can all see that, of course, the UK is
_completely safe_ from any repeat of Dunblane.
Lis Carey
P Nielsen Hayden
In article <356E9232...@mediaone.net>, Elisabeth Carey <lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Rob Hansen wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
>> something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
>> inevitable. Kids get no less alienated or pissed off over here, but
>> they don't have access to lethal ordnance so we don't have them
>> committing massacres. Seems to me that the recent schoolyard slayings
>> have to be seen as acceptable collateral damage if you want to
>> preserve the comprehensive right to bear arms you currently have, just
>> as high road-death rates are something most of the world has decided
>> is an acceptable price to pay for the right to drive cars. This is a
>> choice the US as a society has made and, as with all choices, it
>> inevitably has consequences.
>
>Even though I'm very much in favor of somewhat more rational gun laws
>than we presently have, I do feel compelled to point out that guns
>have been legal in the USA for a very long time, and several if not
>_all_ of these recent incidents have been in places where gun
>ownership not only is but has been common for a long time--yet the
>incidents _are_ a recent spate, not something we've been enduring for
>a long time.
I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by the speed
with which everyone wants to put their particularly spin on horrible events
like this. The blood isn't dry before the tragedy has been appropriated as
yet another counter in arguments about guns, permissiveness, violence on TV,
drugs, parenting, or whatever.
Sometimes terrible things happen. There is a tragic component in life. This
doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make sense of them. But out of the din of
everyone trying to make instance sense comes no sense at all.
-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
B. Vermo
In article <6kkgja$p...@news1.panix.com>,
Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com> wrote:
| ... Most large US cities do not,
|in fact, allow casual ownership of guns; if I want to carry a gun in NYC,
The issue is getting a bit foggy here. There is a major difference between
being allowed to own a gun and to be permitted to carry it around
ready to be used. It is also a certain difference between restrictions
on gun ownership in general and of certain types of gun which are
only useful for illegal purposes (like, in your case, handguns which
are designed for carrying).
So light some bonfires to spread the fog - can you buy a hunting
rifle in order to go moose-hunting, or a target gun?
It may well be that I can actually buy a gun much more easily than
you, or it may just be that your wording was inaccurate. I can buy
most kinds of gun I can afford. If I want a current handgun, I must
get a document from my pistol club stating that I am a member in
good standing and has been active there for at least six months.
If I want a non-automatic rifle, I just fill out a form myself. The
police will then give me a permit, since I have not commited any
violent crimes lately and have not been deemed unfit to own weapons.
If I want a historical weapon, there is no need for a permit. A
historical weapon is defined as one for which ammunition is no longer
manufactured commercially. Machineguns and artillery pieces are
quite OK, as for practical purposes they are not useable as weapons
without a supply of reasonably fresh ammunition.
On the other hand, if I want to carry a loaded handgun around I will
not get a permit to do so. Not even the police will get a permit for that.
They have to keep their guns in armored, sealed chests. Every time
the chief gives permission to break the seal, an inquiry will
automatically follow.
David E Romm
> I blames Heinlein, I does. I'm sure it must be all his fault somehow.
Hey, get with the 80s-Retro Movement. I blames Bill Casey.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact/Weirdness Unbound
http://www.visi.com/~romm
"You rest up. I will monitor the culture."
-- The Tick
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
: I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by the speed
: with which everyone wants to put their particularly spin on horrible events
: like this. The blood isn't dry before the tragedy has been appropriated as
: yet another counter in arguments about guns, permissiveness, violence on TV,
: drugs, parenting, or whatever.
: Sometimes terrible things happen. There is a tragic component in life. This
: doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make sense of them. But out of the din of
: everyone trying to make instance sense comes no sense at all.
This was what I was trying to get at in my original comment, to which
Rob responded -- and that response is also why I've kept quiet thereafter.
We have already had quite a lot of verbiage locally on the issue.
There is something awful about the face of tragedy becoming personal.
Lauryn, watching the news, saw one of the interviews with the girl
friend of the first boy shot and killed, and recognized her as
someone who visits her booth every Saturday, just to play with the
stuffed toads.
I spent quite a bit of today talking with someone at work. He is
thoughtful, intelligent, and well-read -- and believes implicitly
in every conspiracy theory about the government, and that every
left-wing organization is, by the nature of being a left-wing
organization, doing good work against The Forces Of Evil.
Finally, he asked me what it would take for him to convince me
that he was right about the CIA, and about a half-dozen other
topics we'd been discussing. All I could say was that often
the stories he'd read and heard and discussed about what the
CIA was doing, or what Reagan did, or what [name your own public
figure] had done were very likely correct, and that, even so,
those stories were only part of the total picture. There are
no simple answers, and the world is a lot larger and more complex
place than any of us know or can know.
I was reminded of why I like Edward Whittemore's books better
than I like those of Wilson and Shea. There ARE conspirators;
there ARE people who secretly plot the fate of the world -- and
they are as fallible as the rest of us, and their belief that
they understand what is going on is at best illusory.
In Eugene yesterday, there was an absolutely beautiful sunset,
wildflowers were blooming everywhere one looked, and no one
shot anyone else. It was a nice day.
-- LJM
P Nielsen Hayden
>Finally, he asked me what it would take for him to convince me
>that he was right about the CIA, and about a half-dozen other
>topics we'd been discussing. All I could say was that often
>the stories he'd read and heard and discussed about what the
>CIA was doing, or what Reagan did, or what [name your own public
>figure] had done were very likely correct, and that, even so,
>those stories were only part of the total picture. There are
>no simple answers, and the world is a lot larger and more complex
>place than any of us know or can know.
>
>I was reminded of why I like Edward Whittemore's books better
>than I like those of Wilson and Shea. There ARE conspirators;
>there ARE people who secretly plot the fate of the world -- and
>they are as fallible as the rest of us, and their belief that
>they understand what is going on is at best illusory.
I love Edward Whittemore's books, which I believe I actually first heard about
from you, Loren, so thank you. (Although I had to regretfully conclude that
the unpublished one was unpublishable.) But in fairness to Wilson and Shea,
that sense you describe is very much present in ILLUMINATUS! as well, albeit
in a more burlesque form.
P Nielsen Hayden
>Sometimes terrible things happen. There is a tragic component in life. This
>doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make sense of them. But out of the din of
>everyone trying to make instance sense comes no sense at all.
Homonyms will get you. I mean "instant sense," not "instance sense."
Gary Farber
In <romm-29059...@15-99.dynamic.visi.com>
David E Romm <ro...@visi.com> wrote:
:> I blames Heinlein, I does. I'm sure it must be all his fault somehow.
: Hey, get with the 80s-Retro Movement. I blames Bill Casey.
Pre or post brain tumor?
Gary, missing Barry Goldwater
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
: I love Edward Whittemore's books, which I believe I actually first
: heard about from you, Loren, so thank you. (Although I had to
: regretfully conclude that the unpublished one was unpublishable.)
: But in fairness to Wilson and Shea, that sense you describe is very
: much present in ILLUMINATUS! as well, albeit in a more burlesque form.
Really? Perhaps I should give them another try, then. When I
first read them, I found them a bit -too- burlesque for my taste,
but I may have been reacting to the rave reviews, which were
(as I recall) a Bit Much.
I never did succeed in convincing Hartwell to republish Simon
Raven's -The Roses of Picardie-, either.
-- LJM
Ulrika
>I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by
>the speed with which everyone wants to put their particularly
>spin on horrible events like this.
It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
would get his office the next day.
"Yes, indeed, the Lord is a shoving leopard." -- Rev. W.A. Spooner
** Ulrika O'Brien-...@aol.com**
Gary Farber
In <199805300449...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
: In article <6knhaf$r...@news1.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
: writes:
:>I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by
:>the speed with which everyone wants to put their particularly
:>spin on horrible events like this.
: It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
: when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
: would get his office the next day.
They have rent control, right?
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
: In article <6knhaf$r...@news1.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
: writes:
: >I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by
: >the speed with which everyone wants to put their particularly
: >spin on horrible events like this.
: It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
: when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
: would get his office the next day.
I've just reading "Tuva Or Bust!" again. My response to the above
is a witty phrase I just coined: "Hey, man, that really sucks."
-- LJM
Rob Hansen
On Fri, 29 May 1998 20:20:22 GMT, mi...@moose.demon.co.uk (Mike Scott)
wrote:
>On Fri, 29 May 1998 15:45:19 GMT, r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk (Rob Hansen)
>wrote:
>
>>Pretty much, yeah. Personally, I think our extreme - no guns for
>>anyone, even for members of gun sports clubs (which have all now had
>>to close down) - is as deranged as your extreme of having guns be so
>>ubiquitous that the recent spate of school massacres could result.
>
>That's no *hand*guns for anyone, and there are plenty of gun clubs still
>going for people shooting rifles.
Yes, I should've been clearer. I was thinking 'guns and rifles' rather
than 'guns' as the catch-all term. Apologies.
mike weber
Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
>In Eugene yesterday, there was an absolutely beautiful sunset,
>wildflowers were blooming everywhere one looked, and no one
>shot anyone else. It was a nice day.
>
Thank you.
--
<mike weber> <emsh...@aol.com>
History doesn't always repeat itself -- sometimes it
just screams "Why don't you listen to what I'm telling
you?" and lets fly with a club. -- JWCjr
Ulrika
In article <6ko3j5$3...@news1.panix.com>, Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com>
writes (quoting me):
>: It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
>: when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
>: would get his office the next day.
>
>They have rent control, right?
Well, not exactly, no. But for reasons inexplicable to me, A Great Deal was
made about office size and location in physics, in general. Unbeknownst to me
until later, there was a great deal of administrative disgruntlement over the
fact that the office I had then was, oh, I dunno,
maybe a couple of square feet larger than the ones above and below, due to an
accident of architecture. I was, you see, the least senior administrative type
there, and part-time at that. Oh the horror. Me, I would have been happy to
let someone else have the extra square footage, but since I was working for the
Exec. Officer of Physics, it seemed to make more sense that I should be next to
his office, rather than one floor up or one floor down.
Ulrika
In article <6ko77d$8ur$3...@haus.efn.org>, Loren Joseph MacGregor
<lmac...@efn.org> writes:
>: It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
>: when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
>: would get his office the next day.
>
>I've just reading "Tuva Or Bust!" again. My response to the above
>is a witty phrase I just coined: "Hey, man, that really sucks."
Yes. "That was a bad day. I was against it, myself."
Joel Rosenberg
Loren Joseph MacGregor wrote in message <6ko77d$8ur$3...@haus.efn.org>...
>In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote:
>: In article <6knhaf$r...@news1.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
>: writes:
>
>: >I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by
>: >the speed with which everyone wants to put their particularly
>: >spin on horrible events like this.
>
>: It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
>: when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
>: would get his office the next day.
>
>I've just reading "Tuva Or Bust!" again. My response to the above
>is a witty phrase I just coined: "Hey, man, that really sucks."
>
Each to his own. My response was a sad shake of the head and a murmurred,
"Life goes on."
Doug Wickstrom
On 30 May 1998 03:46:30 GMT, Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com>
modulated the bit stream to say:
>Gary, missing Barry Goldwater
Yeah.
ObAOL: Me too.
All my heroes are dying, and there don't seem to be any replacements.
--
Doug Wickstrom
E-mail replies go to a seldom checked mailbox. To ensure a
timely response, remove "X" and replace "aol.com" with
worldnet.att.net. AOLers reply to nimshubur. Mail from "Free"
e-mail domains goes straight to the bit bucket.
RSmith2678
In article <199805300449...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, ulr...@aol.com
(Ulrika) writes:
>It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
>when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
>would get his office the next day.
A few hours after the death of Senator Ed Zorinsky died, I had the
following conversation with one of our local politicos:
Me: "Did you hear about Ed Zorinsky?"
Politico: "No, what'd he do?"
Me: "He died. It was on the radio this morning."
Politico: Hey, maybe I should call the governor and remind her of all those
votes
I got for her."
--Randy Smith
RSmit...@aol.com or randy...@navix.net
--The Guy From Nebraska
John Lorentz
Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199805300449...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> In article <6knhaf$r...@news1.panix.com>, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden)
> writes:
>
> >I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by
> >the speed with which everyone wants to put their particularly
> >spin on horrible events like this.
>
> when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
> would get his office the next day.
>
the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was "Mckenzie,
Brackman...") dead in his office. As people rush to call for the
appropriate authorities, Arnie Becker (if my foggy memory is working
correctly) says "Dibs on his chair."
(Always liked that pilot. According to it, Arnie drove a car with the
plates "LITIG8R". I figure that a real lawyer somewhere in California got
a ton of money for the use of his license plate, because I can't imagine
that no one had thought of that plate previous to the show.)
--John
Gary Farber
In <01bd8d85$7d900840$caac...@LORENTZ1.PLANAR.COM>
John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
[. . .]
: Reminds me of the opening scene of the L.A. Law pilot movie. They discover
: the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was "Mckenzie,
: Brackman...")
Um, "Leland McKenzie" was played by John Dysart throughout the entire run
of the show, as the senior partner, quite alive.
[. . . .]
Elisabeth Carey
Mark Bernstein wrote:
>
> On 1 Jun 1998 18:31:17 GMT, Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In <01bd8d85$7d900840$caac...@LORENTZ1.PLANAR.COM>
> >John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> >[. . .]
> >: Reminds me of the opening scene of the L.A. Law pilot movie. They discover
> >: the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was "Mckenzie,
> >: Brackman...")
> >
> >Um, "Leland McKenzie" was played by John Dysart throughout the entire run
> >of the show, as the senior partner, quite alive.
> >
> name was McKenzie, Brackman, Cheney, and Kuzak, later expanded to
> McKenzie, Brackman, Cheney, Kuzak, and Becker.
>
> (There's something I've always wondered about in that. It's mentioned
> several times that Douglas Brackman *Sr.*, the late father of the
> Douglas Brackman character in the series, was a founding partner in
> the firm. That means that the Doug we knew never got his name on the
> door, despite being the managing partner. Why didn't he ever object
> to not being in the firm's name, when Kuzak and Becker were?)
A) Well, it would certainly have made a huge difference if they'd
replaced his father's name with his, right? For most practical,
everyday purposes, his name _was_ in the firm's name.
B) You're not really an old-line, distinguished law firm if your name
partners are still alive, so firms that are aiming for Old-Line and
Distinguished add new people to the firm name only when someone who is
very badly wanted as a partner cannot be placated with anything less.
Lis Carey
Mark Bernstein
>In <01bd8d85$7d900840$caac...@LORENTZ1.PLANAR.COM>
>John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>[. . .]
>: Reminds me of the opening scene of the L.A. Law pilot movie. They discover
>: the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was "Mckenzie,
>: Brackman...")
>
>Um, "Leland McKenzie" was played by John Dysart throughout the entire run
>of the show, as the senior partner, quite alive.
>
Quite right. The partner who died was Cheney (sp?). The firm's full
name was McKenzie, Brackman, Cheney, and Kuzak, later expanded to
McKenzie, Brackman, Cheney, Kuzak, and Becker.
(There's something I've always wondered about in that. It's mentioned
several times that Douglas Brackman *Sr.*, the late father of the
Douglas Brackman character in the series, was a founding partner in
the firm. That means that the Doug we knew never got his name on the
door, despite being the managing partner. Why didn't he ever object
to not being in the firm's name, when Kuzak and Becker were?)
Mark Bernstein
markbe...@hotmail.com
Ann Arbor, MI
Ray Radlein
John Lorentz wrote:
>
> Ulrika <ulr...@aol.com> wrote
> > p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) writes:
> >
> > >I'm with Lis on this. I'm actually feeling somewhat battered by
> > >the speed with which everyone wants to put their particularly
> > >spin on horrible events like this.
> >
> > It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
> > when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
> > would get his office the next day.
> >
> discover the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was
> working correctly) says "Dibs on his chair."
What I'm reminded of is Ed Regis' wonderfully titled "Who Got Einstein's
Office?"
I haven't read it, but I greatly enjoyed his even-better-titled book
"Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition."
- Ray R.
--
**********************************************************************
"Yes, orphan," Merlin said to Arthur, "you are now a True King; and it
is yourself that has made you so, as it must be. And now you realize
the second great truth -- that this is indeed the Magic Sword [...]
FOR THE MAGIC SWORD IS THE ONE WITH A TRUE KING AT THE HILT."
Ray Radlein - r...@learnlink.emory.edu
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
**********************************************************************
P Nielsen Hayden
>What I'm reminded of is Ed Regis' wonderfully titled "Who Got Einstein's
>Office?"
>
>I haven't read it, but I greatly enjoyed his even-better-titled book
>"Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition."
Second the recommendation. GREAT MAMBO CHICKEN AND THE TRANSHUMAN CONDITION
is a nonfiction look at transcendent, quasi-scientific movements like the
cryogenics folks, the Extropians, etc., all of which are a little too
credible to be entirely dismissed as nut cults, but a little too culty to be
taken entirely seriously. Regis examines them all with an impressively
nuanced balance of respect and humor. It's quite a performance.
John Lorentz
Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com> wrote in article
<6kus1l$4...@news1.panix.com>...
> In <01bd8d85$7d900840$caac...@LORENTZ1.PLANAR.COM>
> John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> [. . .]
discover
> : the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was "Mckenzie,
> : Brackman...")
>
> of the show, as the senior partner, quite alive.
>
Yup, you're right.
I haven't watched the show once in reruns since they aired the "final"
show. I'm surprised I remembered the opening scene...
(Now, if only someone--besides TV Land, which our cable company doesn't
carry--would just start rerunning St. Elsewhere...)
--John
Sterling Ranne
Just a note to say "Check your confirmations carefully." After reading
this I decided to dig mine out. (Made reservations in Feb.) Found two
major errors (address and date arriving. They said 5th I specified 4th).
Called up the number listed and (hopefully) corrected the problem. (I'll
know if I was successful later)
I faxed my convention housing form in so I know that the mistakes were not
mine. (I checked!)
Additionally, I noticed that in Feb of this year I was forced to my 5th
choice of hotels. Surely not. Were all the hospitality hotels already
REALLY full in 'Feb'?
Sterling
92.5% Pure
Morris M. Keesan
In article <357388...@learnlink.emory.edu>,<snip>
>> > It isn't quite in the same league, but I was working at Caltech
>> > when Dick Feynman died. There were queries about who
>> > would get his office the next day.
>> >
>> discover the senior partner ("McKenzie", I guess, since the firm was
>> for the appropriate authorities, Arnie Becker (if my foggy memory is
>> working correctly) says "Dibs on his chair."
>
>Office?"
And what I'm reminded of is the practice of auctioning a sailor's clothing
to the rest of the crew immediately after he's been lost at sea.
But I've been reading entirely too much Patrick O'Brian recently.
--
Morris M. Keesan -- kee...@world.std.com
Kathy Routliffe
> : with which everyone wants to put their particularly spin on horrible events
> : yet another counter in arguments about guns, permissiveness, violence on TV,
> : drugs, parenting, or whatever.
>
>
> I spent quite a bit of today talking with someone at work. He is
> thoughtful, intelligent, and well-read -- and believes implicitly
> in every conspiracy theory about the government, and that every
> left-wing organization is, by the nature of being a left-wing
> organization, doing good work against The Forces Of Evil.
(snip again)
>
> I was reminded of why I like Edward Whittemore's books better
> than I like those of Wilson and Shea. There ARE conspirators;
> there ARE people who secretly plot the fate of the world -- and
> they are as fallible as the rest of us, and their belief that
> they understand what is going on is at best illusory.
>
> In Eugene yesterday, there was an absolutely beautiful sunset,
> wildflowers were blooming everywhere one looked, and no one
> shot anyone else. It was a nice day.
>
I can't remember who first introduced me to Whittemore's books, but I'm
glad he or she did. Whittemore must be the blessed issue of an
incestuous marriage of fate and chance, maybe the elder brother of Tim
Powers. And he also writes with such compassion, sadness, anger and love
that I've been moved to tears by every book of his which I've read -
each and every time I've read them. I wasn't able to finish Quinn's
Shanghai Circus because the sadness was too much for me the time I first
opened it. One of these days, I'll try again.
Thanks for reminding us about wildflowers. We all need them.
Kathy R.
---------------------------
If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion
galaxies, you will not find another.
-- Carl Sagan
Seth Breidbart
In article <01bd8e52$340be860$0100007f@LocalHost>,
Sterling Ranne <sra...@hydroseal.com> wrote:
>Additionally, I noticed that in Feb of this year I was forced to my 5th
>choice of hotels. Surely not. Were all the hospitality hotels already
>REALLY full in 'Feb'?
No, the idiots at the Housing Bureau were ignoring the choice of
hotels on the form.
Seth
Seth Breidbart
In article <356E724F...@jet.uk>, Peter Card <Peter...@jet.uk> wrote:
>The only problem with the Intersection housing operation that I recall
>was with the room rates - there didn't seem to be much of discount for
>convention rates, if any.
They charged more than you could get a room for if you booked it
through another service (e.g. American Express). On the other hand,
they also provided less service. (The cheaper AmEx room came with
breakfast.)
>>Running another con in the same city and using the same company for room bookings
>>means you're a loosing bid. No matter what else.
>Que? I don't quite follow that.
Nobody would vote for them.
Seth
Alison Scott
kee...@world.std.com (Morris M. Keesan) wrote:
>And what I'm reminded of is the practice of auctioning a sailor's clothing
>to the rest of the crew immediately after he's been lost at sea.
>But I've been reading entirely too much Patrick O'Brian recently.
Not, I think, mentioned in O'Brian, but from other recent reading, was
the implication that other sailors would pay over the odds for these
effects, in the knowledge that the money would go to the next of kin.
Whether this is true or not I don't know (and possibly nobody does).
--
Alison Scott ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk
Rather typical homepage: www.fuggles.demon.co.uk
Cutting-edge fanzine: www.moose.demon.co.uk/plokta
Mark Bernstein
On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:30:53 -0400, Elisabeth Carey
<lis....@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Mark Bernstein wrote:
>>
>> [Re: L.A. Law]
>> (There's something I've always wondered about in that. It's mentioned
>> several times that Douglas Brackman *Sr.*, the late father of the
>> Douglas Brackman character in the series, was a founding partner in
>> the firm. That means that the Doug we knew never got his name on the
>> door, despite being the managing partner. Why didn't he ever object
>> to not being in the firm's name, when Kuzak and Becker were?)
>
>A) Well, it would certainly have made a huge difference if they'd
>replaced his father's name with his, right? For most practical,
>everyday purposes, his name _was_ in the firm's name.
>
>B) You're not really an old-line, distinguished law firm if your name
>partners are still alive, so firms that are aiming for Old-Line and
>Distinguished add new people to the firm name only when someone who is
>very badly wanted as a partner cannot be placated with anything less.
>
Both of those make sense, but it's a characterization thing. The Doug
Brackman I used to watch every week had sufficient ego that I think he
would have found A unconvincing, and would not have been "placated
with anything less", especially after Arnie bullied his way into the
firm's name.
Sterling Ranne
> >Additionally, I noticed that in Feb of this year I was forced to my 5th
> >choice of hotels. Surely not. Were all the hospitality hotels already
> >REALLY full in 'Feb'?
>
> No, the idiots at the Housing Bureau were ignoring the choice of
> hotels on the form.
Would it be possible to change at this late date or am I better off just
accepting it as a mistake I should have corrected early on, but missed?
Sterling
92.5% Pure
Seth Breidbart
In article <01bd8fe0$3a9484a0$0100007f@LocalHost>,
Sterling Ranne <sra...@hydroseal.com> wrote:
>Would it be possible to change at this late date or am I better off just
>accepting it as a mistake I should have corrected early on, but missed?
Phone them and complain, and see what happens (it's an 800 number,
which I don't have right here). Or post and see if somebody wants to
swap hotels with you.
Seth
Morris M. Keesan
On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:46:43 GMT, ali...@fuggles.demon.co.uk (Alison Scott)
wrote:
>kee...@world.std.com (Morris M. Keesan) wrote:
>
>>And what I'm reminded of is the practice of auctioning a sailor's clothing
>>to the rest of the crew immediately after he's been lost at sea.
>>But I've been reading entirely too much Patrick O'Brian recently.
>
>Not, I think, mentioned in O'Brian, but from other recent reading, was
>the implication that other sailors would pay over the odds for these
>effects, in the knowledge that the money would go to the next of kin.
>Whether this is true or not I don't know (and possibly nobody does).
Richard Henry Dana, in _Two_Years_Before_the_Mast_, writing from first-hand
experience, says, "the clothes are usually sold for more than they would be
worth on shore," but with no motivation implied.
--
Morris M. Keesan -- kee...@world.std.com
--
Perrianne Lurie
"Sterling Ranne" <sra...@hydroseal.com> wrote:
>> >Additionally, I noticed that in Feb of this year I was forced to my 5th
>> >choice of hotels. Surely not. Were all the hospitality hotels already
>> >REALLY full in 'Feb'?
>>
>> No, the idiots at the Housing Bureau were ignoring the choice of
>> hotels on the form.
>Would it be possible to change at this late date or am I better off just
>accepting it as a mistake I should have corrected early on, but missed?
Perhaps. In addition to contacting the Housing Bureau, please send a
copy of your original request (without your credit card #) and a
description of your problem to facil...@bucconeer.worldcon.org.
Perrianne Lurie
BucCONeer, the 56-th World Science Fiction Convention
August 5-9, 1998, Baltimore, Maryland, USA
P.O. Box 314, Annapolis Junction, MD 20701
bucc...@bucconeer.worldcon.org
http://www.bucconeer.worldcon.org
Personal E-mail: bucc...@pipeline.com
Shade
I think another valid question is this:
Have they fixed this problem? Or am I going to have the same problem since
I just sent away my housing form earlier in the week?
Shade
Perrianne Lurie <bucc...@pipeline.com> wrote in article
<6l8l59$7eb$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>...
> "Sterling Ranne" <sra...@hydroseal.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Additionally, I noticed that in Feb of this year I was forced to my
5th
> >> >choice of hotels. Surely not. Were all the hospitality hotels
already
> >> >REALLY full in 'Feb'?
> >>
> >> No, the idiots at the Housing Bureau were ignoring the choice of
> >> hotels on the form.
Zev Sero
On Thu, 28 May 1998 15:28:23 GMT, r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk (Rob Hansen)
wrote:
>With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
>something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
>inevitable.
Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
actually been heavily down for the past few years. See
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-05/26/089l-052698-idx.html
--
Zev Sero Programming: the art of debugging an empty text file
zs...@bigfoot.com
Zev Sero
On 30 May 1998 01:30:40 GMT, Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org>
wrote:
>I was reminded of why I like Edward Whittemore's books better
>than I like those of Wilson and Shea. There ARE conspirators;
>there ARE people who secretly plot the fate of the world -- and
>they are as fallible as the rest of us, and their belief that
>they understand what is going on is at best illusory.
Try Michael Flynn's _In The Country Of The Blind_
Elisabeth Carey
Zev Sero wrote:
>
> On Thu, 28 May 1998 15:28:23 GMT, r...@fiawol.demon.co.uk (Rob Hansen)
> wrote:
>
> >With almost anyone in the US who wants guns being able to have them,
> >something like the recent spate of kids going postal is pretty much
> >inevitable.
>
> Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
> actually been heavily down for the past few years. See
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-05/26/089l-052698-idx.html
Spoilsport.:)
Lis Carey
John Lorentz
Zev Sero <zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote in article
<3628612a....@news.idt.net>...
> Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
> actually been heavily down for the past few years.
Except, of course, in Springfield, Oregon...
--John (Thurston High, class of '70)
James Nicoll
In article <01bd9553$88960840$caac...@LORENTZ1.PLANAR.COM>,
bring the rates back down again.
James Nicoll
--
"Pigs are not a fruit."
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
: Zev Sero <zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote in article
: <3628612a....@news.idt.net>...
: > Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
: > actually been heavily down for the past few years.
: Except, of course, in Springfield, Oregon...
But, of course, now that Clinton will be here tomorrow to
Share Our Pain, things will be much better.
-- LJM
Gary Farber
In <6lpdga$9sc$1...@haus.efn.org>
Should he have avoided coming? Would that be a better thing?
Loren Joseph MacGregor
In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com> wrote:
: In <6lpdga$9sc$1...@haus.efn.org>
: : In rec.arts.sf.fandom, John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
: : : Zev Sero <zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote in article
: : : <3628612a....@news.idt.net>...
: : : > Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
: : : > actually been heavily down for the past few years.
: : : Except, of course, in Springfield, Oregon...
: : But, of course, now that Clinton will be here tomorrow to
: : Share Our Pain, things will be much better.
: Should he have avoided coming? Would that be a better thing?
Actually, I think so, yes. So, apparently, do most of the students
at the high school. I think it is a nice gesture, but I think it
would have been a nicer gesture three weeks ago. I think also
that there is a perception that Clinton is not visiting as a
gesture of support, but to distract attention from other events.
I don't believe this, but I think the perception may work against
him.
From a purely practical standpoint, one of the two major roads
into downtown Eugene is currently under construction, and putting
a presidential entourage on the other will cause a great deal
of stress and confusion, which I believe is unnecessary.
All, of course, IMHO.
-- LJM
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
In article <6lplpo$cu9$1...@haus.efn.org>, Loren Joseph MacGregor
<lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
Having the President in town is a major pain.
He was in Cambridge delivering an address.
Bloody Secret Service closed down the Harvard Bridge (on Massachusetts Ave,
the major artery to/from Boston/Cambridge) as well as the Longfellow
Bridge, another major artery.
Damned inconveninet.
--
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
"Gadzooks!", quoth I, "But here's a saucy bawd!"
I, Libertine
by Fredrick R. Ewing
<A HREF="HTTP://WWW.GIS.NET/~CHT"/A>
John Lorentz
> In <6lpdga$9sc$1...@haus.efn.org>
> : : Zev Sero <zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote in article
> : : <3628612a....@news.idt.net>...
> : : > Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
> : : > actually been heavily down for the past few years.
>
> : : Except, of course, in Springfield, Oregon...
>
> : But, of course, now that Clinton will be here tomorrow to
> : Share Our Pain, things will be much better.
>
> Should he have avoided coming? Would that be a better thing?
>
Several of the students, and some of the other folks, are sorta wishing he
wouldn't because they're trying to go on with their lives and start to put
this tragedy behind them. But other students are happy he's coming.
For him to visit Springfield is probably the right thing to do, even though
it does pick at the scab of the wound that's starting to heal over. (Jeez,
what a metaphor...)
The governor's staying out of this visit, because he's already visited
twice, and he knows that people would like to move on. (His background as
an emergency room physician is showing, I think.)
--John
Avram Grumer
In article <6lplpo$cu9$1...@haus.efn.org>, Loren Joseph MacGregor
<lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
> From a purely practical standpoint, one of the two major roads
> into downtown Eugene is currently under construction, and putting
> a presidential entourage on the other will cause a great deal
> of stress and confusion, which I believe is unnecessary.
I suspect that any presidential candidate who promised that, if elected,
he would refrain from visiting New York for the duration of his time in
office, would get the vote of every driver in the area.
--
Avram Grumer | av...@bigfoot.com | http://www.bigfoot.com/~avram/
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted."
-- Esther Dyson
David G. Bell
In article <01bd9591$999642c0$caac...@LORENTZ1.PLANAR.COM>
jlor...@spiritone.com "John Lorentz" writes:
> Gary Farber <gfa...@panix2.panix.com> wrote in article
> <6lpgvu$c...@news1.panix.com>...
> > In <6lpdga$9sc$1...@haus.efn.org>
> > Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@efn.org> wrote:
> > : In rec.arts.sf.fandom, John Lorentz <jlor...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> > : : Zev Sero <zs...@bigfoot.com> wrote in article
> > : : <3628612a....@news.idt.net>...
> > : : > Despite media-driven perceptions, violent crime by juveniles has
> > : : > actually been heavily down for the past few years.
> >
> > : : Except, of course, in Springfield, Oregon...
> >
> > : But, of course, now that Clinton will be here tomorrow to
> > : Share Our Pain, things will be much better.
> >
> > Should he have avoided coming? Would that be a better thing?
> >
> It's one of those mixed blessings.
>
> Several of the students, and some of the other folks, are sorta wishing he
> wouldn't because they're trying to go on with their lives and start to put
> this tragedy behind them. But other students are happy he's coming.
>
> For him to visit Springfield is probably the right thing to do, even though
> it does pick at the scab of the wound that's starting to heal over. (Jeez,
> what a metaphor...)
>
> The governor's staying out of this visit, because he's already visited
> twice, and he knows that people would like to move on. (His background as
> an emergency room physician is showing, I think.)
It always sounds a bit like political grandstanding when something like
this happens. And it's one thing when the politician is somebody who
represents the area, and quite another when the relationship between
electors and electee is as remote as it seems in this case (as if Tony
Blair came around here, trailing TV crews).
That's maybe the test. Would you expect to see the guy if the TV
companies stayed away?
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
Ken Walton
In article <cht-ya02408000R...@news.gis.net>, Rev. Jihad
Frenzy <c...@NOSPAMgis.net> writes
>Having the President in town is a major pain.
I'm reminded of a card I always used to carry in my wallet. At first
sight it looked like a kidney donor card, but upon closer inspection it
read "In the event of my being involved in an accident, I don't want Mrs
Thatcher to visit me."
--
Ken Walton http://www.kenjo.demon.co.uk
===============================================================
"Cricket - a game which the English, not being a spiritual
people, have invented in order to give themselves some concept
of eternity." - Lord Mancroft
Jo Walton
In article <i1iAZMAG...@kenjo.demon.co.uk>
K...@kenjo.demon.co.uk "Ken Walton" writes:
> In article <cht-ya02408000R...@news.gis.net>, Rev. Jihad
> Frenzy <c...@NOSPAMgis.net> writes
> >Having the President in town is a major pain.
>
> I'm reminded of a card I always used to carry in my wallet. At first
> sight it looked like a kidney donor card, but upon closer inspection it
> read "In the event of my being involved in an accident, I don't want Mrs
> Thatcher to visit me."
Didn't we get a matching pair of those as a wedding present?
--
Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk - Blood of Kings Poetry; rasfw FAQ;
Reviews; Interstichia; Momentum - a paying market for real poetry.
John Lorentz
Ken Walton <K...@kenjo.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<i1iAZMAG...@kenjo.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <cht-ya02408000R...@news.gis.net>, Rev. Jihad
> Frenzy <c...@NOSPAMgis.net> writes
> >Having the President in town is a major pain.
>
> I'm reminded of a card I always used to carry in my wallet. At first
> sight it looked like a kidney donor card, but upon closer inspection it
> read "In the event of my being involved in an accident, I don't want Mrs
> Thatcher to visit me."
>
Just the other day, I saw a new Oregon specialty plate (the idiots in the
legislature are approving them right & left--saves them from doing any real
work, I guess) for "Organ Donor Program". Ruth and I are trying to figure
out if this means that, should the occupants be in an accident, that
everyone in the car is automatically an organ donor...
--John