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Keith F. Lynch

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Aug 19, 2021, 11:53:09 PMAug 19
to
I just got an email. It wasn't stopped by my spam filter, so it must
not be spam.

> I am MacK William UN, a senior officer at John F. Willians
> International Airport (JFK) New York.

I never knew that that's who JFK airport was named for. But
it makes perfect sense. If K can stand for potassium, it can
certainly stand for Willians. And we all remember the tragic
assasination of John F. Willians by Lee Harvey Armold.

> I have contacted you regarding an abandoned diplomatic ATM Card.
> The x-ray scan report of the ATM Card revealed some US dollar bill
> in it which could be approximately 5Million dollars and the official
> paper of the ATM MASTER CARD indicates your contact details.

I never knew that dollar bills were actually hidden inside ATM cards.
I foolishly thought that they came out of the machine I insert them
into. I guess I'll skip my next trip to the ATM, and just get the
money out of the card with tweezers and a magnifying glass without
ever leaving my room.

The largest bill I've seen is $100. I've heard of larger ones, but
never seen them. I wonder whose picture is on the 5 million dollar
bill. Maybe Sanford Wallace's? It's especially clever of the
government to make bills readable by x-ray.

> For your information, the ATM Master Card was abandoned by the
> diplomat agent who was on transit to your city because he was not
> able to pay the (JFK) clearance fee

Yes, that happens to me all the time. I keep forgetting to pay the
fee to transport my ATM card, so I have to just toss it on the floor
at the airport for a UN official to pick up. Also, the airlines keep
refusing to "transit" me to "my city." They keep insisting that I say
which city. I told them: *My* city.

> you will and sum of $100 USD to the FedEx Delivery Department being
> have to pay a payment for the Insurance Fee of the FedEx Company.

I'm trying to figure out what language this is in. The words look
like English, but the syntax, not so much.

> Yours Sincerely.
> MACK WILLIANM

I've never seen William spelled with an N before. Especially not when
it was spelled without the N earlier in the same message. Maybe his
(her?) name is actually Willia, and she's from New Mexico.

Email [redacted]@gmail.com

Of course all UN officials use Gmail for their official business, and
also have UN as their last name.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Aug 20, 2021, 12:45:01 AMAug 20
to
In article <sfn8v4$efj$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
I got a scam last week from somebody who knew my name, my phone
number, my street address, AND my Medicare account number. He
wanted to send me a DNA test kit so they could add it to their
database on the relationship between cancer and heart trouble,
and they were going to send it. He actually sounded genuine.

But when the kit arrived, it was from a lab in *Pennsylvania,*
and said the tests had been ordered by a certain doctor whom I'd
never heard of, but I googled him and he's an oncologist, all
right-- in Tennessee. At this point I emailed my endocrinogist
with the details.

About that time somebody (different person, a woman) phoned me to
see if the kit arrived, and I said Yes it did, and what was this
testing lab in Pennsylvania about, and who was the oncologist in
Tennessee (where I have never been)? She started to hem and haw,
and I said, "If you don't know, can you transfer me to somebody
who does?" and she hung up.

I then got mail back from my endocrinologist, beginning, "Yikes!"
and giving me a .gov site to report it to. I haven't done it yet
(problems with a broken tooth, which got extracted today), but I
shall.

It is unnerving that the first guy was able to sound so genuine
AND had my Medicare number! Fortunately, the form they sent me
was obviously phony and the joke was over.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Charles Packer

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Aug 20, 2021, 3:59:32 AMAug 20
to
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 04:35:49 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

>
> I got a scam last week from somebody who knew my name, my phone number,
> my street address, AND my Medicare account number. He wanted to send me
> a DNA test kit so they could add it to their database on the
> relationship between cancer and heart trouble, and they were going to
> send it. He actually sounded genuine.
>
> But when the kit arrived, it was from a lab in *Pennsylvania,* and said
> the tests had been ordered by a certain doctor whom I'd never heard of,
> but I googled him and he's an oncologist, all right-- in Tennessee. At
> this point I emailed my endocrinogist with the details.
>
> About that time somebody (different person, a woman) phoned me to see if
> the kit arrived, and I said Yes it did, and what was this testing lab in
> Pennsylvania about, and who was the oncologist in Tennessee (where I
> have never been)? She started to hem and haw,
> and I said, "If you don't know, can you transfer me to somebody who
> does?" and she hung up.

> I then got mail back from my endocrinologist, beginning, "Yikes!"
> and giving me a .gov site to report it to. I haven't done it yet
> (problems with a broken tooth, which got extracted today), but I shall.
>
> It is unnerving that the first guy was able to sound so genuine AND had
> my Medicare number! Fortunately, the form they sent me was obviously
> phony and the joke was over.


Unlike the email sent to Keith, which was obvious spam because it
didn't begin "Dear Mr. Lynch," whoever was working you was doing it
because you, uniquely, must be important to somebody, for some
reason.


Gary McGath

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Aug 20, 2021, 5:17:01 AMAug 20
to
On 8/20/21 12:35 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> It is unnerving that the first guy was able to sound so genuine
> AND had my Medicare number! Fortunately, the form they sent me
> was obviously phony and the joke was over.

If a scammer could put together that much information on you, the "joke"
may be far from over. I'd check every bank and credit statement very
carefully for the next couple of months.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Paul Dormer

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Aug 20, 2021, 7:07:23 AMAug 20
to
In article <sfn8v4$efj$1...@reader1.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.
Lynch) wrote:

>
> I just got an email. It wasn't stopped by my spam filter, so it must
> not be spam.

A few years ago, I got a spam that looked ever so genuine, until right at
the bottom where there was a button containing the text "Logine".

Gary McGath

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Aug 20, 2021, 8:57:06 AMAug 20
to
I view my email as plain text whenever possible. Then there are no
buttons with hidden URLs to worry about. Unfortunately, some legitimate
lists I'm on make the plain text mail as unreadable as they can.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Aug 20, 2021, 9:20:01 AMAug 20
to
In article <ChJTI.26706$tv2....@fx45.iad>,
Oh, no. Somebody had gotten hold of a lot of Medicare
information that *should* have been private. They would not have
done all that falsification for just one person.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 9:25:01 AMAug 20
to
In article <sfnrub$oo6$1...@dont-email.me>,
Well, I checked my bank balance yesterday (had to transfer eight
hundred bucks to pay the oral surgeon; I *hope* my insurance will
reimburse some of it), and Hal watches the credit card balance
like a hawk; it's paid down to nothing at the moment and he likes
to keep it that way.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

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Aug 20, 2021, 11:54:04 AMAug 20
to
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote in
news:memo.20210820...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk:
The one I got yesterday was "You have a new voicemail," with a link
that (according to Google) leands to a link, which leads to a link,
which leads to a fake login for either Gmail or Microsoft's
equivalent, which (after it harvests your credentials) actually logs
you into your account (where there's no voicemail). The screen shots
looke pretty good. If the entire idea hadn't been so ridiculous, I'm
have Googled it to find out if it was fake, rather than out of
curiosity as to which kind of scam it was.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Charles Packer

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Aug 20, 2021, 11:54:17 AMAug 20
to
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 13:10:44 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> In article <ChJTI.26706$tv2....@fx45.iad>,
> Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org> wrote:
>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 04:35:49 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I got a scam last week from somebody who knew my name, my phone
>>> number, my street address, AND my Medicare account number. He wanted
>>...


>>Unlike the email sent to Keith, which was obvious spam because it didn't
>>begin "Dear Mr. Lynch," whoever was working you was doing it because
>>you, uniquely, must be important to somebody, for some reason.
>
> Oh, no. Somebody had gotten hold of a lot of Medicare information that
> *should* have been private. They would not have done all that
> falsification for just one person.


It's my guess that if you gave us the name of the Pennsylvania
lab and the Tennessee oncologist, one or more of us could,
with a little online research, suss out the deception.












Paul Dormer

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Aug 20, 2021, 12:06:11 PMAug 20
to
In article <qy53D...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

> Well, I checked my bank balance yesterday (had to transfer eight
> hundred bucks to pay the oral surgeon; I *hope* my insurance will
> reimburse some of it),

Is an oral surgeon the same as a dentist? I've just had root canal work
done and that was nearly a thousand quid, and there are no National
Health dentists in Guildford, that I've been able to find.

Paul Dormer

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Aug 20, 2021, 12:06:11 PMAug 20
to
In article <sfo8r0$bvu$1...@dont-email.me>, ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com
(Gary McGath) wrote:

>
> I view my email as plain text whenever possible. Then there are no
> buttons with hidden URLs to worry about. Unfortunately, some
> legitimate
> lists I'm on make the plain text mail as unreadable as they can.

I tend to when using my desktop computer, but I use Thunderbird as well,
especially when I'm away. Also, PayPal notifications are totally
unreadable in text only. (Sometimes, the text is even in German, for
some reason.)

Alan Woodford

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Aug 20, 2021, 2:43:21 PMAug 20
to
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 08:54:02 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>The one I got yesterday was "You have a new voicemail," with a link
>that (according to Google) leands to a link, which leads to a link,
>which leads to a fake login for either Gmail or Microsoft's
>equivalent, which (after it harvests your credentials) actually logs
>you into your account (where there's no voicemail). The screen shots
>looke pretty good. If the entire idea hadn't been so ridiculous, I'm
>have Googled it to find out if it was fake, rather than out of
>curiosity as to which kind of scam it was.

(tempting fate mode)

I must have upset someone, somewhere...

I hardly ever seem to get dodgy emails, despite not running a spam filter!

(/tempting fate mode)

But I do get a lot of the ""You have missed a call from your internet
provider. Your account will be disconnected in 24 hours due to illegal
activity, press 1 to speak to an account adviser" phone calls...

Since I'm NOT going to press 1, they aren't half so much fun as the "This is
your internet provider. There seems to be a problem with your router" calls.

No-one is surprised that I can keep them on the line for ages, are they,
although they do seem to hang up faster nowadays if they realise they are
talking to someone who can recognise a clue -before- it bites them.

Example

Scammer "There sees to be a problem with your internet connection."

Bearded Fan "Which one?"

S. "The one you use to connect to the internet"

BF. "Which one, I've got four different internet connections?"

S. "Liar, you are just wasting my time you (Expletive in a foreign language, I
presume)"

S. slams phone down in disgust.

The scammer was 50% right - I was trying to waste his time, but I do have four
separate internet connections - the home broadband, my smartphone, a Mi-Fi
unit, and there is a WiFi hotspot built into the car. :-)

Alan "easily amused, sometimes" Woodford
The Greying Lensman

Tim Merrigan

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Aug 20, 2021, 2:48:40 PMAug 20
to
I don't know about in the UK but here, dentists do things like oral
examinations and filling cavities (and provide office space for oral
hygienists), while oral surgeons do things like root canals, dental
implants, and denture fittings.
--

Qualified immuninity = vertual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Tim Merrigan

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Aug 20, 2021, 2:56:57 PMAug 20
to
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:48:37 -0700, Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:06 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul
>Dormer) wrote:
>
>>In article <qy53D...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I checked my bank balance yesterday (had to transfer eight
>>> hundred bucks to pay the oral surgeon; I *hope* my insurance will
>>> reimburse some of it),
>>
>>Is an oral surgeon the same as a dentist? I've just had root canal work
>>done and that was nearly a thousand quid, and there are no National
>>Health dentists in Guildford, that I've been able to find.
>
>I don't know about in the UK but here, dentists do things like oral
>examinations and filling cavities (and provide office space for oral
>hygienists), while oral surgeons do things like root canals, dental
>implants, and denture fittings.

Kind of like the difference between optometrists and ophthalmologists.

rksh...@rosettacondot.com

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Aug 20, 2021, 3:03:03 PMAug 20
to
Oral surgeons are specialists while dentists are the equivalent of general
practitioners. It's typical to see a dentist for checkups and basic treatment
and get a referral to an oral surgeon for more complex procedures.
Without going to far into the insanity that is the US medical system, dental
and medical insurance have only slight overlap but oral surgery is one of
places where they potentially do. Which policy/company pays and how much can
be the subject of much debate with the patient being the primary loser.

Robert
--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 3:40:01 PMAug 20
to
In article <HeQTI.23092$Lv3....@fx08.iad>,
Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 13:10:44 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> In article <ChJTI.26706$tv2....@fx45.iad>,
>> Charles Packer <mai...@cpacker.org> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 04:35:49 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I got a scam last week from somebody who knew my name, my phone
>>>> number, my street address, AND my Medicare account number. He wanted
>>>...
>
>
>>>Unlike the email sent to Keith, which was obvious spam because it didn't
>>>begin "Dear Mr. Lynch," whoever was working you was doing it because
>>>you, uniquely, must be important to somebody, for some reason.
>>
>> Oh, no. Somebody had gotten hold of a lot of Medicare information that
>> *should* have been private. They would not have done all that
>> falsification for just one person.
>
>
>It's my guess that if you gave us the name of the Pennsylvania
>lab and the Tennessee oncologist, one or more of us could,
>with a little online research, suss out the deception.
>
My endocrinologis sent me a site to report it to, and I really
need to quit stalling and do that. Googling the name of the lab
yielded only an online article on a different scam whose scammers
knock on the doors of elderly people and *ask them* for their
Medicare IDs! And get them, sometimes! May I be dead and buried
befor I get that dim.

The oncologist is apparently for real; whether he's actually
involved in the scam or is being used by the scammers without his
knowledge or consent, I don't know and it's not my place to find
out.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 3:45:01 PMAug 20
to
In article <memo.20210820...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <qy53D...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>> Well, I checked my bank balance yesterday (had to transfer eight
>> hundred bucks to pay the oral surgeon; I *hope* my insurance will
>> reimburse some of it),
>
>Is an oral surgeon the same as a dentist?

Mine is both a DDS and an MD. So was his partner, now retired,
and so is his current partner.

> I've just had root canal work
>done and that was nearly a thousand quid, and there are no National
>Health dentists in Guildford, that I've been able to find.

Ouch! IIRC I had at least one root canal done by my (then)
dentist, but the extractions were done by an oral surgeon.
And this latest one cost me $850.00, but I am hoping that Blue
Shield and/or Medicare will reimburse some of it.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 3:45:01 PMAug 20
to
In article <btsvhg5krfdjq2vr4...@4ax.com>,
Bravo!

Gary McGath

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Aug 20, 2021, 5:23:05 PMAug 20
to
On 8/20/21 2:48 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:06 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul
> Dormer) wrote:

>> Is an oral surgeon the same as a dentist? I've just had root canal work
>> done and that was nearly a thousand quid, and there are no National
>> Health dentists in Guildford, that I've been able to find.
>
> I don't know about in the UK but here, dentists do things like oral
> examinations and filling cavities (and provide office space for oral
> hygienists), while oral surgeons do things like root canals, dental
> implants, and denture fittings.
>

In my experience, I've had dentists do fillings, their assistants do
X-rays and cleanings, endodontists do root canals, and an oral surgeon
extract wisdom teeth.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

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Aug 20, 2021, 7:37:34 PMAug 20
to
Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote in
news:4huvhgdv7ihigg33r...@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:48:37 -0700, Tim Merrigan
> <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:06 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk
>>(Paul Dormer) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <qy53D...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com
>>>(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, I checked my bank balance yesterday (had to transfer
>>>> eight hundred bucks to pay the oral surgeon; I *hope* my
>>>> insurance will reimburse some of it),
>>>
>>>Is an oral surgeon the same as a dentist? I've just had root
>>>canal work done and that was nearly a thousand quid, and there
>>>are no National Health dentists in Guildford, that I've been
>>>able to find.
>>
>>I don't know about in the UK but here, dentists do things like
>>oral examinations and filling cavities (and provide office space
>>for oral hygienists), while oral surgeons do things like root
>>canals, dental implants, and denture fittings.
>
> Kind of like the difference between optometrists and
> ophthalmologists.

Not really, no. Dentists and oral surgeons are both medical doctors,
and is an opthamologist. And optometrist is a technician. Many have
some medical training, but are *far* from doctors.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 8:20:01 PMAug 20
to
In article <XnsAD8CA91EEA3...@85.12.62.245>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote in
>news:4huvhgdv7ihigg33r...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:48:37 -0700, Tim Merrigan
>> <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:06 +0100 (BST), p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk
>>>(Paul Dormer) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <qy53D...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com
>>>>(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I checked my bank balance yesterday (had to transfer
>>>>> eight hundred bucks to pay the oral surgeon; I *hope* my
>>>>> insurance will reimburse some of it),
>>>>
>>>>Is an oral surgeon the same as a dentist? I've just had root
>>>>canal work done and that was nearly a thousand quid, and there
>>>>are no National Health dentists in Guildford, that I've been
>>>>able to find.
>>>
>>>I don't know about in the UK but here, dentists do things like
>>>oral examinations and filling cavities (and provide office space
>>>for oral hygienists), while oral surgeons do things like root
>>>canals, dental implants, and denture fittings.
>>
>> Kind of like the difference between optometrists and
>> ophthalmologists.
>
>Not really, no. Dentists and oral surgeons are both medical doctors,
>and so is an opthamologist. An optometrist is a technician. Many have
>some medical training, but are *far* from doctors.
>
Correct.

(My aunt was one of the first female ophthalmologists in the US.
Years and years later, when a much younger female ophthalmologist
asked me who had given me my first pair of glasses, I named my
aunt, and the young woman said, "YOU KNEW DOROTHY MACDONALD!?!?"
So she had a certain degree of fame among her colleagues.)

Scott Dorsey

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Aug 20, 2021, 8:32:59 PMAug 20
to
<rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>
>Oral surgeons are specialists while dentists are the equivalent of general
>practitioners. It's typical to see a dentist for checkups and basic treatment
>and get a referral to an oral surgeon for more complex procedures.
>Without going to far into the insanity that is the US medical system, dental
>and medical insurance have only slight overlap but oral surgery is one of
>places where they potentially do. Which policy/company pays and how much can
>be the subject of much debate with the patient being the primary loser.

Indeed. Oral surgeons have an MD, dentists have a DDS.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 10:20:01 PMAug 20
to
In article <sfphjr$jk4$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
The three or four oral surgeons I've known have both the MD and
the DDS.

Kevrob

unread,
Aug 20, 2021, 11:26:18 PMAug 20
to
On Friday, August 20, 2021 at 10:20:01 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <sfphjr$jk4$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:
> > <rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Oral surgeons are specialists while dentists are the equivalent of general
> >>practitioners. It's typical to see a dentist for checkups and basic treatment
> >>and get a referral to an oral surgeon for more complex procedures.
> >>Without going to far into the insanity that is the US medical system, dental
> >>and medical insurance have only slight overlap but oral surgery is one of
> >>places where they potentially do. Which policy/company pays and how much can
> >>be the subject of much debate with the patient being the primary loser.
> >
> >Indeed. Oral surgeons have an MD, dentists have a DDS.
> The three or four oral surgeons I've known have both the MD and
> the DDS.
> --

"My friend Harold said D.D.S. meant "Dey Died Screaming."

- Sam Levenson in "Everything But Money" (1966)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Levenson

--
Kevin R

Paul Dormer

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Aug 21, 2021, 7:37:37 AMAug 21
to
In article <4huvhgdv7ihigg33r...@4ax.com>, tp...@ca.rr.com
(Tim Merrigan) wrote:

>
> Kind of like the difference between optometrists and
> ophthalmologists.

In the UK I think we usually just call them opticians.

Paul Dormer

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 7:37:38 AMAug 21
to
In article <qy5Kx...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>
> Ouch! IIRC I had at least one root canal done by my (then)
> dentist, but the extractions were done by an oral surgeon.
> And this latest one cost me $850.00, but I am hoping that Blue
> Shield and/or Medicare will reimburse some of it.

As I recall, even National Health dentists charge, just less than private
ones. There was a scandal a few years ago about dentists doing
unnecessary work, just so they could charge the NHS.

Paul Dormer

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 7:37:38 AMAug 21
to
In article <4vtvhg9qkto60m9og...@4ax.com>, tp...@ca.rr.com
(Tim Merrigan) wrote:

>
> I don't know about in the UK but here, dentists do things like oral
> examinations and filling cavities (and provide office space for oral
> hygienists), while oral surgeons do things like root canals, dental
> implants, and denture fittings.

The person who did my root canal work is the same guy who does my
six-monthly check-up, and various fillings over the years. I just call
him the dentist.

Now, back in 1982 when I had my wisdom teeth removed, I was referred to
the dentist at the local hospital, presumably to big a job for my dentist.
(I usually joke I had my wisdom teeth removed during the Falklands War,
which was in the news at the time.)

Charles Packer

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 10:37:58 AMAug 21
to
On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 19:28:06 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> My endocrinologis sent me a site to report it to, and I really need to
> quit stalling and do that. Googling the name of the lab yielded only an
> online article on a different scam whose scammers knock on the doors of
> elderly people and *ask them* for their Medicare IDs! And get them,
> sometimes! May I be dead and buried befor I get that dim.
>
> The oncologist is apparently for real; whether he's actually involved in
> the scam or is being used by the scammers without his knowledge or
> consent, I don't know and it's not my place to find out.

So it looks like the scammer succeeded in one sense -- putting a brain-
lock on you that prevents you from both reporting to the authorities and
sharing data with would-be detectives.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 11:25:01 AMAug 21
to
In article <8d8UI.16013$dl5....@fx04.iad>,
Oh, no, it's just elderly inertia. I'll try to get it done
today.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 3:07:39 PMAug 21
to
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> Alan Woodford <al...@thewoodfords.uk> wrote:
>> Scammer "There sees to be a problem with your internet connection."
>> Bearded Fan "Which one?"
>> S. "The one you use to connect to the internet"
>> BF. "Which one, I've got four different internet connections?"
>> ....

> Bravo!

I often get calls telling me my car insurance is expiring. When I'm
asked to verify the make and model, I say, okay, go ahead, I'll tell
you if you're correct. They hang up. (I don't have a car.)

Then there's the "I've been trying to reach you..." scam, which calls
once or twice a day. It's entirely robotic, and there's no way to
reach a person.

Over the past week, whenever I get a scam call from someone with an
Indian accent, I ask them if they really think it's a good idea to
make the whole world think of India as a nation of scammers, given
that the Taliban are rampaging nearby.

I've never understood why any scammer calls the same number multiple
times per day. Do they think anyone will agree to give them money
just to make the calls stop? If so, given that nobody is enforcing
laws against those scum, why don't they just come out and say that,
instead of wasting everyone's time touting an imaginary product?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 3:30:46 PMAug 21
to
Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> I view my email as plain text whenever possible. Then there are
> no buttons with hidden URLs to worry about.

Likewise. Except replace "whenever possible" with "always."

> Unfortunately, some legitimate lists I'm on make the plain text mail
> as unreadable as they can.

Some lists have even retreated behind the base64 event horizon. I had
to write a base64 decoder that's compatible with procmail to silently
and automatically undo that damage.

I've recently received some emails with xlsx attachments. Any idea
how to decode those?

Chicon sends me HTML emails with a login link whenever I want to see
if they've received my check yet. The login link is buried amongst
numerous other links. And it's both MIME-mangled and much too long
to either cut and paste or retype. Not to mention that it's run by
"Mailchimp," an email marketing company, so I had of course long since
blocked all Mailchimp emails as spam.

I've found that the best way to deal with it is to locate the login
link, discard the rest of it, manually un-MIME it, turn it into a
proper web page, upload it to my public website, and then load it from
a graphical browser. Neither convenient nor secure.

The good news is that they finally received my check, 32 days after
I mailed it. That's an average of less than one mile per hour. It
would have been faster for me to walk the whole way from Virginia to
Chicago, hand it to them, then walk home. I wonder how the Post Awful
carried the letter. No train, plane, automobile, bicycle, pack animal,
or pedestrian is that slow. Maybe they had a turtle carry it.

rksh...@rosettacondot.com

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 4:03:03 PMAug 21
to
Keith F. Lynch <k...@keithlynch.net> wrote:
> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> I view my email as plain text whenever possible. Then there are
>> no buttons with hidden URLs to worry about.
>
> Likewise. Except replace "whenever possible" with "always."
>
>> Unfortunately, some legitimate lists I'm on make the plain text mail
>> as unreadable as they can.
>
> Some lists have even retreated behind the base64 event horizon. I had
> to write a base64 decoder that's compatible with procmail to silently
> and automatically undo that damage.
>
> I've recently received some emails with xlsx attachments. Any idea
> how to decode those?

It's the extension for a "new" (2007) format Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. If
you're not expecting one, it most likely (a) is not that format and
(b) contains malware. If you're interested in opening it, OpenOffice versions
later than 3.0 will read Excel spreadsheets and might even be able to execute
the malware :-)

> Chicon sends me HTML emails with a login link whenever I want to see
> if they've received my check yet. The login link is buried amongst
> numerous other links. And it's both MIME-mangled and much too long
> to either cut and paste or retype. Not to mention that it's run by
> "Mailchimp," an email marketing company, so I had of course long since
> blocked all Mailchimp emails as spam.
>
> I've found that the best way to deal with it is to locate the login
> link, discard the rest of it, manually un-MIME it, turn it into a
> proper web page, upload it to my public website, and then load it from
> a graphical browser. Neither convenient nor secure.
>
> The good news is that they finally received my check, 32 days after
> I mailed it. That's an average of less than one mile per hour. It
> would have been faster for me to walk the whole way from Virginia to
> Chicago, hand it to them, then walk home. I wonder how the Post Awful
> carried the letter. No train, plane, automobile, bicycle, pack animal,
> or pedestrian is that slow. Maybe they had a turtle carry it.

I would say s/received/processed/ unless you sent the check return receipt
requested. How much of that 32 days is transit through the postal system and
how much is sitting ignored at the destination?

Tim Merrigan

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 4:18:21 PMAug 21
to
For the last few years I've been letting all calls on my land line go
straight to my answering machine. Most of the calls that are long
enough to get through (they make it though the outgoing message before
they disconnect) are blank.

Fortunately my pharmacy's robocall reminder messages are long enough
for me to catch the tail end, so I know they've called, but not what
about.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 4:28:09 PMAug 21
to
Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> Fortunately my pharmacy's robocall reminder messages are long enough
> for me to catch the tail end, so I know they've called, but not what
> about.

Speaking of pharmacies, I was required to give an email address to get
my covid vaccine at CVS. Since then they've been spamming me almost
every day, with giant HTML emails. The first couple I laboriously
decoded, in case they were warning me about a vaccine recall. Nope.
They're just trying to sell me stuff. Of course I discontinued the
disposable email address I gave them, so all their emails will be
blocked. And also made a mental note never to shop there again, and
to get my covid boosters or delta vaccine elsewhere.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 5:10:01 PMAug 21
to
In article <sfrlt9$crlm$1...@memoryalpha.rosettacon.com>,
<rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>
>> The good news is that they finally received my check, 32 days after
>> I mailed it. That's an average of less than one mile per hour. It
>> would have been faster for me to walk the whole way from Virginia to
>> Chicago, hand it to them, then walk home. I wonder how the Post Awful
>> carried the letter. No train, plane, automobile, bicycle, pack animal,
>> or pedestrian is that slow. Maybe they had a turtle carry it.

I don't know about turtles, but we've had several packages sent
from wherever they started to a central office fairly near where
we are, only to be forwarded to ANOTHER central office further
away, and sit there for a week or two till they finally get sent
somewhere nearby and then get delivered in the next day or two.

Maybe they had the turtle assigning the delivery schedule?
rurtles aren't all that bright.

>I would say s/received/processed/ unless you sent the check return receipt
>requested. How much of that 32 days is transit through the postal system and
>how much is sitting ignored at the destination?

Or somewhere.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 5:15:01 PMAug 21
to
In article <rdn2ig1qsu3gn1r4t...@4ax.com>,
Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 19:07:37 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've never understood why any scammer calls the same number multiple
>>times per day. Do they think anyone will agree to give them money
>>just to make the calls stop? If so, given that nobody is enforcing
>>laws against those scum, why don't they just come out and say that,
>>instead of wasting everyone's time touting an imaginary product?

The only scammer calls I get that frequently are from a bunch of
guys who want me to support the local police force financially.
I get them two or three times a week. I have a stock answer for
them: "We've already set up our donation budget for this year."

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 11:07:27 PMAug 21
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:qy7Js...@kithrup.com:

> In article <sfrlt9$crlm$1...@memoryalpha.rosettacon.com>,
> <rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The good news is that they finally received my check, 32 days
>>> after I mailed it. That's an average of less than one mile
>>> per hour. It would have been faster for me to walk the whole
>>> way from Virginia to Chicago, hand it to them, then walk home.
>>> I wonder how the Post Awful carried the letter. No train,
>>> plane, automobile, bicycle, pack animal, or pedestrian is that
>>> slow. Maybe they had a turtle carry it.
>
> I don't know about turtles, but we've had several packages sent
> from wherever they started to a central office fairly near where
> we are, only to be forwarded to ANOTHER central office further
> away, and sit there for a week or two till they finally get sent
> somewhere nearby and then get delivered in the next day or two.
>
USPS has struggled a lot in the last 18 months. They lost a rent
check of mine a few months back. That was inconvenient. (When I
hand delivered the money order on the day it was due, I told the
manager "you have bills to pay, too" and I though she was going to
cry.)

But USPS isn't the only shipper that does stupid things. I ordered
a printer for one of our stores in Davis. The FedEx tracking
information showed it in Sacramento a couple of days later, 10
miles from the store. The next entry shows it being delivered to a
business with a completely different name - in Virginia. (The
shipper was very cooprative about reshipping it.)

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration


"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,
Aug 21, 2021, 11:09:48 PMAug 21
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:qy7Jx...@kithrup.com:

> In article <rdn2ig1qsu3gn1r4t...@4ax.com>,
> Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 19:07:37 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
>><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I've never understood why any scammer calls the same number
>>>multiple times per day. Do they think anyone will agree to
>>>give them money just to make the calls stop? If so, given that
>>>nobody is enforcing laws against those scum, why don't they
>>>just come out and say that, instead of wasting everyone's time
>>>touting an imaginary product?
>
> The only scammer calls I get that frequently are from a bunch of
> guys who want me to support the local police force financially.
> I get them two or three times a week. I have a stock answer for
> them: "We've already set up our donation budget for this year."
>
My normal answer for those is "Every police department in the United
States has issued press releases saying, 'We do not - ever - solicit
donations over the phone. If you get a phone call claiming to be from
us, please report this as a criminal scam. What was your name again?"

I don't get many of those these days.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 12:10:01 AMAug 22
to
In article <XnsAD8DCD197AB8F...@85.12.62.245>,
Ninapenda Jibini <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>news:qy7Jx...@kithrup.com:
>
>> In article <rdn2ig1qsu3gn1r4t...@4ax.com>,
>> Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 19:07:37 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
>>><k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I've never understood why any scammer calls the same number
>>>>multiple times per day. Do they think anyone will agree to
>>>>give them money just to make the calls stop? If so, given that
>>>>nobody is enforcing laws against those scum, why don't they
>>>>just come out and say that, instead of wasting everyone's time
>>>>touting an imaginary product?
>>
>> The only scammer calls I get that frequently are from a bunch of
>> guys who want me to support the local police force financially.
>> I get them two or three times a week. I have a stock answer for
>> them: "We've already set up our donation budget for this year."
>>
>My normal answer for those is "Every police department in the United
>States has issued press releases saying, 'We do not - ever - solicit
>donations over the phone. If you get a phone call claiming to be from
>us, please report this as a criminal scam. What was your name again?"
>
>I don't get many of those these days.
>
Ooooh! Bookmarked!

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 2:31:41 AMAug 22
to
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:qy831...@kithrup.com:
It has the advantage of being pretty close to true, too. Call your
local PD public affairs office and ask about it, and they'll tell
you that nobody who has any official connection to the department
*ever* solicits with cold calls - because of the scammers.

Scott Dorsey

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 7:14:21 AMAug 22
to
Ninapenda Jibini <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>But USPS isn't the only shipper that does stupid things. I ordered
>a printer for one of our stores in Davis. The FedEx tracking
>information showed it in Sacramento a couple of days later, 10
>miles from the store. The next entry shows it being delivered to a
>business with a completely different name - in Virginia. (The
>shipper was very cooprative about reshipping it.)

My experience on the whole is that stuff goes wrong all over. When stuff
goes wrong, UPS doesn't pay on their insurance until you sue them, but
Fedex pays promptly. USPS's insurance has traditionally been very expensive
and completely useless.

But USPS isn't the same USPS that it was a couple years ago. It's even more
strapped for cash with a lot of facilities stripped down, but on the other
hand they finally have implemented active end-to-end tracking. (The website
is awful and doesn't show you more than a tiny fraction of the actual scans,
but there's a terminal at every postoffice that can get actual scan data).
There's even limited internal tracking on letter mail these days.

rksh...@rosettacondot.com

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 9:38:03 AMAug 22
to
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <sfrlt9$crlm$1...@memoryalpha.rosettacon.com>,
> <rksh...@rosettacondot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The good news is that they finally received my check, 32 days after
>>> I mailed it. That's an average of less than one mile per hour. It
>>> would have been faster for me to walk the whole way from Virginia to
>>> Chicago, hand it to them, then walk home. I wonder how the Post Awful
>>> carried the letter. No train, plane, automobile, bicycle, pack animal,
>>> or pedestrian is that slow. Maybe they had a turtle carry it.
>
> I don't know about turtles, but we've had several packages sent
> from wherever they started to a central office fairly near where
> we are, only to be forwarded to ANOTHER central office further
> away, and sit there for a week or two till they finally get sent
> somewhere nearby and then get delivered in the next day or two.

FedEx used to be really bad about this. I remember a shipper on the west
side of Dallas sending me a package. I live on the northeast edge but the
package went to, IIRC, Memphis before coming to me.
UPS' trick was to hold packages for a few days to make sure that local "ground"
shipments didn't get cheap overnight delivery.

> Maybe they had the turtle assigning the delivery schedule?
> rurtles aren't all that bright.
>
>>I would say s/received/processed/ unless you sent the check return receipt
>>requested. How much of that 32 days is transit through the postal system and
>>how much is sitting ignored at the destination?
>
> Or somewhere.

We get occasional off-by-ones...neighbors' mail showing up in our box and
(presumably) vice versa. I can usually tell when it happens to us...the
image shows up in the Informed Delivery email and the letter shows up a day
or two later sometime in the evening.

Dorothy J Heydt

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 10:35:01 AMAug 22
to
In article <XnsAD8DEF53680Ft...@85.12.62.245>,
Doubly cool.

Paul Dormer

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 10:57:11 AMAug 22
to
In article <sfritp$ifo$1...@reader1.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.
Lynch) wrote:

> I've never understood why any scammer calls the same number multiple
> times per day.

About ten years ago, I got a phone call just as I was getting up from
someone claiming to be with a company dealing with a blocked drain in my
street. They said they'd be leaving equipment on my property and I'd
have to pay a deposit, payable by bank transfer, quite a large amount, as
I recall. They then proceeded to phone me several times asking for the
money. Someone even phoned me claiming to be the owner of the property
that was flooded. They even gave me the street number of the person
involved, who I knew and he denied it. (They gave a different number
when I pointed this out.) I had just returned from holiday and I found
several blank calls on my answer machine the day before. Finally I
phoned the police who told me not to pay them (which I wasn't intending
to do). I heard the "someone trying to call you" beep several times
during this call and, sure enough, they called again when I hung up.
They were most indignant when I told them I'd phoned the police but they
didn't phone again after that.

Some months later I saw a news item about someone in court for running
this scam all over south-east England.

On the matter of not having a car, a few weeks ago I was asked to come
into the local hospital for an echo cardiogram. They asked me to come in
on a Sunday as it would be easier to park. Well, even if I had a car, it
would be quicker for me to walk across the road to the hospital.
Apparently, when I was in hospital back in January, people were telling
my family I'd be driving again in six weeks, to which they replied, "No
he won't."

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 1:35:27 PMAug 22
to
Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
> About ten years ago, I got a phone call just as I was getting up
> from someone claiming to be with a company dealing with a blocked
> drain in my street. They said they'd be leaving equipment on my
> property and I'd have to pay a deposit, payable by bank transfer,
> quite a large amount, as I recall.

It's hard to imagine such a claim would get any response except
"HELL NO! When you want to use my property, you pay me, not
vice versa!" I wonder what the scammers were thinking.

> On the matter of not having a car, a few weeks ago I was asked to
> come into the local hospital for an echo cardiogram. They asked me
> to come in on a Sunday as it would be easier to park. Well, even if
> I had a car, it would be quicker for me to walk across the road to
> the hospital.

I've never lived that close to a hospital, but I can see Fairfax Inova
Hospital out my bedroom window, just barely, and only when trees are
bare. It's perhaps best known for giving former VP Dick Cheney a
heart transplant. They did so after my mother died, which happened
after they refused to let me donate a lung to her, claiming that they
never do organ transplants into people over 65, as such transplants
just don't work. It's amazing how rapidly medical progress advances,
given that it was just three weeks after my mother's death that they
successfully transplanted a heart into a 71-year-old Dick.

I've never been a patient there, but I've visited patients there
(on foot). Several times I visited my mother and Marilee Layman in
the same visit.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 2:05:53 PMAug 22
to
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> The only scammer calls I get that frequently are from a bunch of
> guys who want me to support the local police force financially.

Unlike most scams, that might actually work. Not because anyone
actually supports the police anymore, but because they might feel
intimidated into donating. Not many people want to risk their whole
family being massacred in yet another "wrong address" midnight SWAT
team raid. A hundred dollars or two each year is a small amount to
prevent such a "terrible mistake."

They're probably scammers who have nothing to do with the police, but
why risk it?

Tim Merrigan

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 4:05:27 PMAug 22
to
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 18:05:52 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>> The only scammer calls I get that frequently are from a bunch of
>> guys who want me to support the local police force financially.
>
>Unlike most scams, that might actually work. Not because anyone
>actually supports the police anymore, but because they might feel
>intimidated into donating. Not many people want to risk their whole
>family being massacred in yet another "wrong address" midnight SWAT
>team raid. A hundred dollars or two each year is a small amount to
>prevent such a "terrible mistake."
>
>They're probably scammers who have nothing to do with the police, but
>why risk it?

Police Departments => State supported protection rackets.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 4:31:12 PMAug 22
to
Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> Police Departments => State supported protection rackets.

Indeed. Not all cops are killers, but they're all liars. Lying is a
job requirement. Such lies do enormous legal and psychological damage
to innocent defendants who totally trust the police. Fortunately,
this problem is self-correcting in the long run, as there are fewer
and fewer people that gullible every year.

In the long run, the damage is to the reputation of the police
themselves. The Supreme Court ruled that police are allowed to lie.
But they couldn't rule that people must forever remain magically
ignorant of this fact. So now police are crying about how nobody
trusts them anymore, and about how juries are often completely
disregarding all police testimony. I can't tell you how much I
empathize -- since prefixes only go down to yocto, meaning 10^-24
of a unit.

Tragically, the suicide rate for cops in the US is 17 per 100,000, the
highest of any profession. (The tragedy is that it isn't even higher.)

Nothing in the above is intended to minimize the culpability of free-
lance criminals. But they're a much smaller problem. For instance
all free-lance thieves put together steal less than cops steal via
civil forfeiture.

Gary McGath

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 5:14:58 PMAug 22
to
On 8/22/21 4:31 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> Police Departments => State supported protection rackets.
>
> Indeed. Not all cops are killers, but they're all liars. Lying is a
> job requirement. Such lies do enormous legal and psychological damage
> to innocent defendants who totally trust the police. Fortunately,
> this problem is self-correcting in the long run, as there are fewer
> and fewer people that gullible every year.

Illinois has passed a law invalidating confessions by minors that were
obtained through willful deception by the police. They can still do it
to adults, but it's a small gain.


--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 5:59:09 PMAug 22
to
Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
> Illinois has passed a law invalidating confessions by minors that
> were obtained through willful deception by the police. They can
> still do it to adults, but it's a small gain.

Good. But unless it's matched to a requirement that the police record
all interrogations from the beginning, and that "the dog ate my tapes"
not be accepted as an excuse, it's worthless, since otherwise nothing
would keep the cops from lying to the court about whether they lied to
the suspect.

Tim Merrigan

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 6:34:29 PMAug 22
to
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 21:59:08 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
<k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> Illinois has passed a law invalidating confessions by minors that
>> were obtained through willful deception by the police. They can
>> still do it to adults, but it's a small gain.
>
>Good. But unless it's matched to a requirement that the police record
>all interrogations from the beginning, and that "the dog ate my tapes"
>not be accepted as an excuse, it's worthless, since otherwise nothing
>would keep the cops from lying to the court about whether they lied to
>the suspect.

IMHO any time one is in police custody (including being stopped on the
street, even if it's only to be asked directions) whether as a
witness, a victim, or a suspect, one is under arrest, and is subject
to all rights and protections (such as they are, e.g. Miranda rights,
and them explaining why one is being detained).

I've noticed that in some cop shows (the Law & Order franchise comes
to mind) the detectives seem to think the phrase "this is a murder
investigation" trumps the requirement for warrants.

Jay E. Morris

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 8:22:50 PMAug 22
to
On 8/22/2021 5:34 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 21:59:08 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
> <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>> Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>>> Illinois has passed a law invalidating confessions by minors that
>>> were obtained through willful deception by the police. They can
>>> still do it to adults, but it's a small gain.
>>
>> Good. But unless it's matched to a requirement that the police record
>> all interrogations from the beginning, and that "the dog ate my tapes"
>> not be accepted as an excuse, it's worthless, since otherwise nothing
>> would keep the cops from lying to the court about whether they lied to
>> the suspect.
>
> IMHO any time one is in police custody (including being stopped on the
> street, even if it's only to be asked directions) whether as a
> witness, a victim, or a suspect, one is under arrest, and is subject
> to all rights and protections (such as they are, e.g. Miranda rights,
> and them explaining why one is being detained).
>
> I've noticed that in some cop shows (the Law & Order franchise comes
> to mind) the detectives seem to think the phrase "this is a murder
> investigation" trumps the requirement for warrants.
>

I don't think I've ever seen a cop show that sometime in the series or
movie doesn't use questionable, or even outright illegal, methods but
since we're the good guys it's really ok.

Keith F. Lynch

unread,
Aug 22, 2021, 11:30:23 PMAug 22
to
Tim Merrigan <tp...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> IMHO any time one is in police custody (including being stopped on
> the street, even if it's only to be asked directions) whether as a
> witness, a victim, or a suspect, one is under arrest,

No. For instance look up "Terry stop."

> and is subject to all rights and protections (such as they are, e.g.
> Miranda rights, and them explaining why one is being detained).

You always have the right not to talk to the police, whether or not
you are being detained. (There are rare exceptions for "mandatory
reporters," e.g. if you're a doctor or a teacher and you believe
a child is being abused, you're required to call the cops and
tell them.)

The Miranda warning is only required if you are being questioned and
are in police custody. Police custody includes arrest, Terry stops,
psychiatric holds, protective custody, and any other time you're not
free to go. Always answer any question with "Am I free to go?" And
respond to anything they say in response other than yes or no by
repeating that question.

Police love to intimidate you into thinking you aren't free to go,
then later claim in court that it was a friendly conversation and you
were always free to go. Make them commit to one or the other. If
they answer yes, then go without saying another word. If they answer
no, then say nothing except that you will say nothing without your
lawyer.

> I've noticed that in some cop shows (the Law & Order franchise comes
> to mind) the detectives seem to think the phrase "this is a murder
> investigation" trumps the requirement for warrants.

They don't need a warrant to question you. They usually need a
warrant to either arrest or search you, but there are numerous
exceptions. Whether they have a warrant or not, you never have to
answer their questions, except possibly giving your name and address,
and I'd strongly recommend never answering their questions, even if
they claim you're not a suspect.

Anyone who thinks they can talk their way out of trouble just because
they're innocent should watch the 46-minute "Don't Talk to the Police"
YouTube video, made by a law professor talking to his class. People
have been convicted of drug sales just because they correctly answered
the question as to how many grams are in an ounce.

Paul Dormer

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Aug 23, 2021, 6:21:38 AMAug 23
to
In article <sfu1st$iqf$1...@reader1.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.
Lynch) wrote:

> > I had a car, it would be quicker for me to walk across the road to
> > the hospital.
>
> I've never lived that close to a hospital, but I can see Fairfax Inova
> Hospital out my bedroom window, just barely,

I can't actually see the hospital from my bedroom window as there are
trees in the way. Also a supermarket. The road in question is the A3, a
major road from London to Portsmouth. The safest way to cross it is to
use a subway (in the UK sense of the word).

It takes me about five minutes to walk to the supermarket and maybe a
couple more minutes to continue to the hospital. When I had my prostate
operation ten years ago, they wouldn't let me walk home afterwards and
insisted in calling my brother out of a meeting in London to drive here
to collect me. Of course, once I got home, the first thing I had to do
was visit the supermarket.

Gary McGath

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Aug 23, 2021, 7:18:04 AMAug 23
to
I've watched some episodes of the German cop show "Mord mit Aussicht"
(murder with a view). Often I wonder how much German police authority
differs from the US, and how much is the writers making stuff up.

For example, in one episode the cops dug up the grave of a pet on the
suspect's property without getting a warrant or anything like it. The
purpose was to establish that the pet had been poisoned, which was a
link to a human victim having been poisoned. In the US that search would
be illegal, which doesn't guarantee cops wouldn't do it. Is it legal to
dig up someone's property in Germany on suspicion without a warrant? I
don't know.

In another episode, the crime took place just on the other side of a
state line, so the regular characters had to bring in cops from that
state. At least that much is the same.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Aug 23, 2021, 9:15:01 AMAug 23
to
In article <sg005a$urk$1...@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <ga...@REMOVEmcgathREMOVE.com> wrote:
>On 8/22/21 8:22 PM, Jay E. Morris wrote:
>> On 8/22/2021 5:34 PM, Tim Merrigan wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 21:59:08 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
>>> <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>
>
>>> I've noticed that in some cop shows (the Law & Order franchise comes
>>> to mind) the detectives seem to think the phrase "this is a murder
>>> investigation" trumps the requirement for warrants.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think I've ever seen a cop show that sometime in the series or
>> movie doesn't use questionable, or even outright illegal, methods but
>> since we're the good guys it's really ok.
>
>I've watched some episodes of the German cop show "Mord mit Aussicht"
>(murder with a view). Often I wonder how much German police authority
>differs from the US, and how much is the writers making stuff up.
>
>For example, in one episode the cops dug up the grave of a pet on the
>suspect's property without getting a warrant or anything like it. The
>purpose was to establish that the pet had been poisoned, which was a
>link to a human victim having been poisoned. In the US that search would
>be illegal, which doesn't guarantee cops wouldn't do it. Is it legal to
>dig up someone's property in Germany on suspicion without a warrant? I
>don't know.

There's a series of murder mysteries by Catherine Aird, set in England,
featuring a detective inspector and his hapless assistant, a
sergeant with boundless enthusiasm and an incomplete
understanding of the procedural rules. He's always digging into
suspects garbage bins, e.g., and finding out something
interesting that cannot be brought as evidence in court, but
which provides useful information that the inspector can follow
up by more appropriate means.

For example, an old woman, living alone with her cat, is murdered
in the course of a robbery. The feckless sergeant notices the
cat cleaning his paws, and takes samples of the blood under
its claws. Purely by accident, I'm sure, he manages to do this
in such a way that the blood is legitimate evidence.

Later on, a man is diagnosed with cat-scratch fever, with
infected lacerations on his legs; the blood matches and they get
a conviction. (The cat, meanwhile, has been adopted by the old
woman's niece, and is seen calmly sunning itself on a windowsill,
unable to give verbal evidence because it's a cat. As Peter
Beagle once put it, no cat has ever given anyone a straight
answer.)

Keith F. Lynch

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Aug 23, 2021, 9:41:32 PMAug 23
to
Paul Dormer <p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
> I can't actually see the hospital from my bedroom window as there
> are trees in the way.

Likewise, but they're only in the way in summer.

> The road in question is the A3, a major road from London to
> Portsmouth. The safest way to cross it is to use a subway
> (in the UK sense of the word).

Likewise, except the road the hospital and I are both on is Gallows
Road, and the hospital is about 1.3 miles (2.1 km) away, not directly
across. Directly across from me is a facility where very large dump
trucks bang their tailgates as loudly as possible, unfortunately.
At least they only do so all day. They used to also do so all night.
(I'm not quite directly on Gallows, but it's only 150 ft (50 m) from
my bedroom window.) But yes, I'd have to cross the road to get to
the hospital.

Directly across Gallows from Inova Fairfax Hospital is what used
to be the Exxon/Mobil headquarters but is now the Inova Center for
Personalized Health. (Ever since Obamacare put its thumb on the
scale, more and more of the US economy is devoted to medical care.
If current trends continue, by the 22nd century every building in
the US will be a Starbucks, a medical facility, or a Starbucks in
a medical facility.)

> It takes me about five minutes to walk to the supermarket and maybe
> a couple more minutes to continue to the hospital.

The closest two supermarkets, an H-Mart and a Lidl, are both about
1000 ft (300 m) away. A Target is slightly further. But it takes me
more than five minutes as there are busy roads in the way, with no
pedestrian underpasses or overpasses.

> When I had my prostate operation ten years ago, they wouldn't let
> me walk home afterwards and insisted in calling my brother out of
> a meeting in London to drive here to collect me. Of course, once
> I got home, the first thing I had to do was visit the supermarket.

What could they have done had you walked home anyway?

Around here, supposedy every hospital patient is free to leave against
medical advice (AMA), unless they're under arrest or in a locked psych
ward. (Leaving AMA may cause your insurance to refuse to pay, however.)

But five years ago cops shot and killed a released patient at a bus stop
next to that hospital. Supposedly the patient was threatening them.

Paul Dormer

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Aug 24, 2021, 5:59:45 AMAug 24
to
In article <sg1iob$112$1...@reader2.panix.com>, k...@KeithLynch.net (Keith F.
Lynch) wrote:

> If current trends continue, by the 22nd century every building in
> the US will be a Starbucks, a medical facility,