If you could travel to anywhere in the sci-fi film and TV universe,where would you visit ?
Trevor
or scifi fantasy
universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
Halmyre
I'd visit the original Death Star and put "MIND YOUR HEAD" notices
above the doors.
--
Halmyre
Ken from Chicago
"Trevor" <trevor....@joinme.com> wrote in message
news:3076e91d-efb2-421b...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
It's close between:
1) Star Trek: TNG, given its high level of technology, space travel, virtual
reality and replicator technology (a person with a replicator module and
warp-capable shuttle could live pert near anywhere in the quadrant).
2) But it's edged out by Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth, shown in his
duology PANDORA'S STAR and JUDAS UNCHAINED, given its advanced technology,
particularly its rejuvenation tech (every 60 years you can "reboot" your
body back to age 20), space travel (imaging huge STARGATE SG-1 style
stargates big enough for giant trains that can run 24/7 connecting worlds
and able to open wormholes in space without a stargate at the other end),
cybernetics and virtual reality.
-- Ken from Chicago (who hasn't started in on Hamilton's TEMPORAL VOID, set
a millennia after JUDAS UNCHAINED)
Mac Breck
1. Babylon 5, to see and maybe converse with some of my favorite
characters.
2. The Excalibur (of the TV series "Crusade"). I'd love to have been
involved and help out on their continuing adventures.
3. The TARDIS ("Doctor Who" - the remake, Season 1). To take a spin
around the universe to some far off places, events and times.
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999) - "War Zone"
Galen (to Gideon): "I've been penalized before for helping other
people. I've been trying to decide whether or not I should risk it
again."
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Probably one of my own works, especially the world of Grand Central
Arena (forthcoming, April 2010). As the Author, even if I didn't have
special POWERS, I have special knowledge which would be very advantageous.
What other universes I might choose would depend on the conditions of
transfer -- visit for a day, a month, etc., do I get to bring things
back with me if it's a visit?
If it's a permanent transfer, am I stuck exactly the way I am? Do I get
any special status, any money or resources so I'm not a total bum, or what?
For instance, I might like to visit the Lensman universe, but I'm not
MANLY enough to live there. Many universes might be fun to visit or even
live in, but only if you've got what it takes to do well there.
Most fiction, after all, isn't about making the characters comfortable
and safe.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Howard Brazee
My favorite works of fiction are way to "interesting" for me want to
risk being stuck there.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Ilya2
wrote:
> "Trevor" <trevor.ander...@joinme.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3076e91d-efb2-421b...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> > or scifi fantasy
> > universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> > to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
> It's close between:
> 1) Star Trek: TNG, given its high level of technology, space travel, virtual
> reality and replicator technology (a person with a replicator module and
> warp-capable shuttle could live pert near anywhere in the quadrant).
> 2) But it's edged out by Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth, shown in his
> duology PANDORA'S STAR and JUDAS UNCHAINED, given its advanced technology,
> particularly its rejuvenation tech (every 60 years you can "reboot" your
> body back to age 20), space travel (imaging huge STARGATE SG-1 style
> stargates big enough for giant trains that can run 24/7 connecting worlds
> and able to open wormholes in space without a stargate at the other end),
> cybernetics and virtual reality.
Seconded on Commonwealth of "Pandora's Star". There's a universe you
can spend eternity exploring and never run out of surprises, yet is
reasonably safe (except during war with Primes, of course).
I would not want to live in Star Trek Federation because, frankly, it
looks too good to be true. IMO the only way the society can function
as depicted is with very thorough suppression of all dissent.
Ken Arromdee
Mac Breck <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>1. Babylon 5, to see and maybe converse with some of my favorite
>characters.
>2. The Excalibur (of the TV series "Crusade"). I'd love to have been
>involved and help out on their continuing adventures.
>3. The TARDIS ("Doctor Who" - the remake, Season 1). To take a spin
>around the universe to some far off places, events and times.
Questions like this always need a followup: "Do you get to be a main
character, an average on-screen character, or an average character in
the world"?
Babylon 5 and Doctor Who are generally bad ideas if you don't get to be
a main character (and Babylon 5 possibly even if you do). Star Trek is
much better if you get to be an average character in the world (an average
on-screen character is likely to make you a redshirt).
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
Obi-wan Kenobi: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no 'try'."
Halmyre
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:39:51 -0700 (PDT), Trevor
>
> >If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> >or scifi fantasy
> >universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> >to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
> My favorite works of fiction are way to "interesting" for me want to
> risk being stuck there.
>
I wouldn't want to live in Alastair Reynold's "Revelation Space"
universe, but I would be perfectly happy in Iain M Banks' "Culture"
universe.
--
Halmyre
Will in New Haven
By restricting it to TV and film you have reduced fantasy and SF to a
very small part of their scope. Still there are a few places I would
want to go.
Cheif among them is the nameless countryside around the nameless city
(at least I don't remember their naming it) and the city itself in
"Ladyhawk." The landscape is beautiful and the people and horses are
beautiful. It seems more than vaguely Catalonian, so the food is
probably good.
Of course, who would not want to visit Gondor and see her white walls
at sunrise. Going to visit the Elves in the West might be
problematical but it would be great if one could.
The mean streets of "Bladerunner" have a certain appeal. It looks like
a place one could adapt to as it is not _hugely_ different from the
here and now.
--
Will in New Haven
Stephen Allcroft
Now that would be the best as an average person, provided you were an
average culture person....
art...@yahoo.com
The vacation planet in "The Fifth Element"
Or perhaps I could take in a weekend in Stepford.
Robert Carnegie
The holodeck. What reason? All of them. (Okay, not Worf's reason.)
If I have sufficient credit, is the Ferengi holoparlour available?
No, I just wondered. Their special programs -
Ilya2
> at sunrise. Going to visit the Elves in the West might be
> problematical but it would be great if one could.
IMO, Middle Earth is not a kind of place you'd want to be an average
joe. Or even to be at all. Life is hard and dull unless you are
someone important, and if you ARE important, you can be killed at any
moment. For that matter, average joes can also get killed at any
moment.
Actually, this describes most sword-and-sorcery fantasy, and for a
good reason -- it is based on the period in European history when life
was exactly like that.
I recall someone saying they'd like to live in Xanth. Evidently they
did not think things through. Unless you have Magician-class talent,
Xanth is an insanely dangerous place, even by fantasy standards.
Humans live in what amounts to fortified cities (fortified by magic
rather than walls), and anyone venturing outside is basically holding
up an "Eat me!" sign.
Will in New Haven
> > Of course, who would not want to visit Gondor and see her white walls
> > at sunrise. Going to visit the Elves in the West might be
> > problematical but it would be great if one could.
>
> IMO, Middle Earth is not a kind of place you'd want to be an average
> joe. Or even to be at all. Life is hard and dull unless you are
> someone important, and if you ARE important, you can be killed at any
> moment. For that matter, average joes can also get killed at any
> moment.
I was thinking of it as a place to visit, actually.
--
Will in New Haven
>
Mike Van Pelt
Stephen Allcroft <stephen...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
>On 21 Oct, 15:30, Halmyre <flashgordonreced...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > My favorite works of fiction are way to "interesting"
>> > for me want to risk being stuck there.
>>
>> I wouldn't want to live in Alastair Reynold's "Revelation
>> Space" universe, but I would be perfectly happy in Iain M
>> Banks' "Culture" universe.
>
>you were an average culture person....
... and could choose time and place, so as to avoid being there
when the Idrians are getting uppity, or where you'd have any
contact whatsoever with The Affront...
I haven't read much of Banks, so I'm sure there are other
very "interesting" things going on indeed, but these come
to mind right off based on my limited exposure.
--
Mike Van Pelt "If they're going to talk about
mvp.at.calweb.com Camelot, then we get to talk about
KE6BVH The Lady in the Lake." - ?
hielan' laddie
(in article
<62e93495-be93-4a98...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>):
So what you're saying is that Xanth is Australia, only tidied up?
Steven L.
The Ringworld.
Just to see that thing from space.
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Jack Tingle
Regards,
Jack Tingle
Scott Lurndal
I was under the possibly mistaken assumption that books are
a family of the order media?
scott
Thanatos
<e74b2fab-47a3-45fc...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
> I would not want to live in Star Trek Federation because, frankly, it
> looks too good to be true. IMO the only way the society can function
> as depicted is with very thorough suppression of all dissent.
But life is so wonderful in the Federation, there is no dissent to
suppress!
David Oberman
I could be a great athlete named George.
Howard Brazee
Written SF has lots off utopias that ignore human nature. Star Trek
has a lot of that nature.
Anybody have a Twilight Zone episode that would be good in this
thread?
Keith F. Lynch
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi
> where would you most like to go and please say why, for anywhere
> named.
A parallel world in which crossposting had never been invented. And in
which people paid more attention to books than to movies or TV shows.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
William December Starr
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> said:
> By restricting it to TV and film you have reduced fantasy and SF
> to a very small part of their scope. Still there are a few places
> I would want to go.
>
> Cheif among them is the nameless countryside around the nameless
> city (at least I don't remember their naming it) and the city
> itself in "Ladyhawk." The landscape is beautiful and the people
> and horses are beautiful.
And the people are stupid. (Not sure about the horses.)
Eclipse, you fucking morons. E-clipse.
-- wds
Will in New Haven
> In article <11408829-12cd-46a9-b5b1-f30969b22...@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
> Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> said:
>
> > By restricting it to TV and film you have reduced fantasy and SF
> > to a very small part of their scope. Still there are a few places
> > I would want to go.
>
> > Cheif among them is the nameless countryside around the nameless
> > city (at least I don't remember their naming it) and the city
> > itself in "Ladyhawk." The landscape is beautiful and the people
> > and horses are beautiful.
>
> And the people are stupid. (Not sure about the horses.)
> Eclipse, you fucking morons. E-clipse.
At the time I didn't care that Michelle was playing a stupid
character. And I still don't.
TBerk
'Ringworld'.
It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
berk
TBerk
Yeah, yeah, yeah- we are just going to ignore the constraint (and lack
of OP's imagination?) in his query.
berk
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Oh, yeah, take along some serious telescope and camera if so
inclined. Those things don't happen every day.
Anim8rFSK
<f714a0c6-40b6-4c31...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
TBerk <bayar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
count.
I'd sure like the magig autodoc.
--
Stargate Universe SGU: It puts the "U" in "SUCKS"!
It's the show 'Defiling Gravity' would be if DG had more regulars,
fewer abortions, worse writers, and no budget for lighting.
Remember, you can't spell "disgust" without SGU!
Steven L.
> In article
> <f714a0c6-40b6-4c31...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> TBerk <bayar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> 'Ringworld'.
>>
>> It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
>>
>>
>> maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
>>
>>
>> berk
>
> Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
> count.
"Ringworld" is just crying out for a Star Trek adaptation:
Louis Wu ==> James Kirk
Puppeteer ==> Mr. Spock
Kzin ==> Klingon Commander Kor
J.J. Abrams, are you listening?
Zoltan Somogyi
>Cheif among them is the nameless countryside around the nameless city
>(at least I don't remember their naming it) and the city itself in
>"Ladyhawk."
Aquila.
Zoltan Somogyi <z...@cs.mu.OZ.AU> http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~zs/
Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering, Univ. of Melbourne
TBerk
> In article
> <f714a0c6-40b6-4c31-9651-b26fdb2a1...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>
> TBerk <bayareab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 'Ringworld'.
>
> > It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
>
> > maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
>
> > berk
>
> Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
> count.
>
>
> --
Hence my disregard of the constrains imposed by "...anywhere in the
sci-fi film and TV universe...".
I pick from the proper (to me) and much larger Superset of Science
Fiction. By default it's print, film, TV, etc, but surely we aren't
going to ignore all those wonderful books just because the OP doesn't
read. <--- That's not my problem.
berk
TBerk
> Anim8rFSK wrote:
> > In article
> > <f714a0c6-40b6-4c31-9651-b26fdb2a1...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> 'Ringworld'.
>
> >> It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
>
> >> maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
>
> >> berk
>
> > Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
> > count.
>
> "Ringworld" is just crying out for a Star Trek adaptation:
>
> Louis Wu ==> James Kirk
> Puppeteer ==> Mr. Spock
> Kzin ==> Klingon Commander Kor
>
> J.J. Abrams, are you listening?
>
Niven in General needs the film treatment. His stuff, if done with
attention to core and spirit, could be a whole Star Wars, Star Trek
level of 'Universe'.
berk
btw- you _do_ remember the Star Trek Animated Series versions of
Niven's stories, right?
Ken from Chicago
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:hbmsge$1gf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Trevor wrote:
>> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
>> or scifi fantasy
>> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
>> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>>
>
> (forthcoming, April 2010). As the Author, even if I didn't have special
> POWERS, I have special knowledge which would be very advantageous.
Leave it to the WRITER to see the big picture and suss out the best
advantage long-term.
> What other universes I might choose would depend on the conditions of
> transfer -- visit for a day, a month, etc., do I get to bring things back
> with me if it's a visit?
>
> If it's a permanent transfer, am I stuck exactly the way I am? Do I get
> any special status, any money or resources so I'm not a total bum, or
> what?
>
> For instance, I might like to visit the Lensman universe, but I'm not
> MANLY enough to live there. Many universes might be fun to visit or even
> live in, but only if you've got what it takes to do well there.
>
> Most fiction, after all, isn't about making the characters comfortable and
> safe.
Part of the reason why writers are evil. The better the writer the worst
they are.
> --
> Sea Wasp
> /^\
> ;;; Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:11408829-12cd-46a9...@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 21, 4:39 am, Trevor <trevor.ander...@joinme.com> wrote:
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> or scifi fantasy
> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
~By restricting it to TV and film you have reduced fantasy and SF to a
~very small part of their scope. Still there are a few places I would
~want to go.
<snip>
Seeing how it was cross-posted to rec.arts.sf.WRITTEN, I ignored that
restriction and included literary SF.
-- Ken from Chicago
Steven L.
> On Oct 21, 8:01 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Anim8rFSK wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <f714a0c6-40b6-4c31-9651-b26fdb2a1...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>>> TBerk <bayareab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 'Ringworld'.
>>>> It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
>>>> maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
>>>> berk
>>> Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
>>> count.
>> "Ringworld" is just crying out for a Star Trek adaptation:
>>
>> Louis Wu ==> James Kirk
>> Puppeteer ==> Mr. Spock
>> Kzin ==> Klingon Commander Kor
>>
>> J.J. Abrams, are you listening?
>>
>
> Niven in General needs the film treatment. His stuff, if done with
> attention to core and spirit, could be a whole Star Wars, Star Trek
> level of 'Universe'.
The problem is, there's not enough action in Niven's stories to create a
big-budget blockbuster. Not after the Star Wars series with hundreds of
space ships battling each other, Death Stars, etc.
In "Ringworld," Niven's "motley crew" goes to explore the Ringworld,
they meet up with some natives, they do some things to figure out how to
get off the Ringworld again, that's it. As a novel, that's interesting.
But as a movie, it would be pretty boring.
Even Asimov's "Foundation" trilogy had more action in it.
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Is there more to _Land of the Lost_?
Heck, _Alien_ had more to it than just an alien monster eating people
one by one. It had characters.
And if you think Niven doesn't have characters than you tanjing well
put characters in.
Steven L.
What "Alien" had was tension and suspense. As well as terror. It was a
horror movie in space.
I never got the feeling of suspense or tension from the Ringworld
stories either. The first novel had a real sense of wonder, because the
Ringworld was such a stunning concept. But that sense of wonder
dissipated in the subsequent novels.
trag
> In article
> <f714a0c6-40b6-4c31-9651-b26fdb2a1...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > 'Ringworld'.
>
> > It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
>
> > maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
>
> > berk
>
> Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
> count.
>
> I'd sure like the magig autodoc.
Yeah, I was thinking I'd like to go somewhere I could get an
affordable and permanent immortality treatment without any of the
classic blunders. Classic blunders including, requires ingredient
sapped from some poor victim, or leaves you with the physique of a
centenarian, unable to reproduce, must suck human blood from living,
wipes some component of your identity, etc.
I'd also like to go somewhere they could correct my vision (we can do
the near-sightedness here and now, but I'm old enough to need my close
vision fixed now too.), and generally make all the parts work as well
as they did when I was in my 20s.
I'm not sure where that'd be in movies and TV though. I'd have to
research it a bit.
Part of me would like to see some of Niven's (and/or Niven/Pournelle)
stuff filmed and part of me cringes at the ways they could sap the joy
and life from it if they did.
Ilya2
> affordable and permanent immortality treatment without any of the
> classic blunders. Classic blunders including, requires ingredient
> sapped from some poor victim, or leaves you with the physique of a
> centenarian, unable to reproduce, must suck human blood from living,
> wipes some component of your identity, etc.
>
> I'd also like to go somewhere they could correct my vision (we can do
> the near-sightedness here and now, but I'm old enough to need my close
> vision fixed now too.), and generally make all the parts work as well
> as they did when I was in my 20s.
>
> I'm not sure where that'd be in movies and TV though. I'd have to
> research it a bit.
I don't think you will find anything like that in movies and TV, at
least American ones (in Japanese movies, possibly). The idea of
physical immortality as a good and positive thing, without any
Faustian bargains, is still too radical for American movie audience.
(Or at least for movie executives.)
Walter Bushell
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Anim8rFSK wrote:
> > In article
> > <f714a0c6-40b6-4c31...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> > TBerk <bayar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> 'Ringworld'.
> >>
> >> It might be dangerous, but it's be one Hell of an Adventure.
> >>
> >>
> >> maybe I'd get to keep the ship when we're done. ;])
> >>
> >>
> >> berk
> >
> > Problem is, pretty much nothing of Niven has been filmed, so it doesn't
> > count.
>
> "Ringworld" is just crying out for a Star Trek adaptation:
>
> Louis Wu ==> James Kirk
> Puppeteer ==> Mr. Spock
> Kzin ==> Klingon Commander Kor
>
> J.J. Abrams, are you listening?
With the ringworld full of moties!
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Franco
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> or scifi fantasy
> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
The Commonwealth of Silverlock.
Anim8rFSK
<c89392f9-7669-4f87...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
TBerk <bayar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> btw- you do remember the Star Trek Animated Series versions of
> Niven's stories, right?
I recall THE SLAVER WEAPON becoming THE SOFT WEAPON, yes.
TBerk
Go back and read the whole 'It's Louis Wu's Birthday and he is keeping
ahead of the Sunrise' thing all over again. The description of the
Future in that book, 'World of P'Tavvs' and 'Protector' is enough to
hang a film based franchise on.
> Even Asimov's "Foundation" trilogy had more action in it.
>
> --
> Steven L.
I love Asimov but never cared for 'Foundation', et al.
berk
Keith F. Lynch
> The idea of physical immortality as a good and positive thing,
> without any Faustian bargains, is still too radical for American
> movie audience. (Or at least for movie executives.)
I've long viewed it as following the fantasy/science fiction divide.
In fantasy, immortality is always a bad thing. In science fiction
it's almost always good, though there may be undesirable side effects.
Keith F. Lynch
> I'd also like to go somewhere they could correct my vision (we can
> do the near-sightedness here and now, but I'm old enough to need my
> close vision fixed now too.), and generally make all the parts work
> as well as they did when I was in my 20s.
If you have immortality and perpetual youth, you obviously won't
have presbyopia.
> Part of me would like to see some of Niven's (and/or Niven/
> Pournelle) stuff filmed and part of me cringes at the ways they
> could sap the joy and life from it if they did.
Indeed. The only good thing about movies from my favorite books is
that the books are still there, unchanged.
I'm cringing at what ABC is doing to Sawyer's _Flashforward_. If I
wanted to watch a police procedural, I'd tune in CSI.
Ken from Chicago
"Thanatos" <atr...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-51AE56...@news.giganews.com...
> In article
> <e74b2fab-47a3-45fc...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
> Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>> I would not want to live in Star Trek Federation because, frankly, it
>> looks too good to be true. IMO the only way the society can function
>> as depicted is with very thorough suppression of all dissent.
>
> But life is so wonderful in the Federation, there is no dissent to
> suppress!
On Earth.
The Federation extends beyond Earth.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:6s9vd5p6j2iu2qkej...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:51:05 -0400, Thanatos <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>In article
>><e74b2fab-47a3-45fc...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
>> Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would not want to live in Star Trek Federation because, frankly, it
>>> looks too good to be true. IMO the only way the society can function
>>> as depicted is with very thorough suppression of all dissent.
>>
>>But life is so wonderful in the Federation, there is no dissent to
>>suppress!
>
> has a lot of that nature.
>
> Anybody have a Twilight Zone episode that would be good in this
> thread?
None, they are prone to a nasty surprise ending.
Altho the "Kick the Can" one might be nice--but backwards technologically.
-- Ken from Chicago
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> I was thinking I'd like to go somewhere I could get an
> affordable and permanent immortality treatment without any of the
> classic blunders. Classic blunders including, requires ingredient
> sapped from some poor victim, or leaves you with the physique of a
> centenarian, unable to reproduce, must suck human blood from living,
> wipes some component of your identity, etc.
>
> I'd also like to go somewhere they could correct my vision (we can do
> the near-sightedness here and now, but I'm old enough to need my close
> vision fixed now too.), and generally make all the parts work as well
> as they did when I was in my 20s.
>
> I'm not sure where that'd be in movies and TV though. I'd have to
> research it a bit.
Use the Force, duke. Unless you consider looking like Yoda a "classic
blunder". He's so old - but I think we assume he was born looking
like that. Most of us are. (Professional photo studios do a lot of
airbrushing of new-baby portraits.) And... is it just aliens who have
trouble with English grammar, in that setting? He ain't no struldbrug
is what I'm saying.
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
wrote:> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:51:05 -0400, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>In article
> >><e74b2fab-47a3-45fc-9e4d-26f1d8df5...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I would not want to live in Star Trek Federation because, frankly, it
> >>> looks too good to be true. IMO the only way the society can function
> >>> as depicted is with very thorough suppression of all dissent.
>
> >>But life is so wonderful in the Federation, there is no dissent to
> >>suppress!
>
> > Written SF has lots off utopias that ignore human nature. Star Trek
> > has a lot of that nature.
>
> > Anybody have a Twilight Zone episode that would be good in this
> > thread?
>
> None, they are prone to a nasty surprise ending.
>
> Altho the "Kick the Can" one might be nice--but backwards technologically.
Nothing wrong with that... How about "It's a Good Life"? Providing
you get to be one particular character, of course.
Mike Van Pelt
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc. or�g <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>How about "It's a Good Life"? Providing
>you get to be one particular character, of course.
How dare you suggest it isn't wonderful for everyone?
To the cornfield with you!
--
Mike Van Pelt "If they're going to talk about
mvp.at.calweb.com Camelot, then we get to talk about
KE6BVH The Lady in the Lake." - ?
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> In article <b18c477f-fb1d-4b8a...@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc. or�g <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> >How about "It's a Good Life"? Providing
> >you get to be one particular character, of course.
>
> How dare you suggest it isn't wonderful for everyone?
>
> To the cornfield with you!
I think you proved my point! ;-)
> Mike Van Pelt "If they're going to talk about
> mvp.at.calweb.com Camelot, then we get to talk about
> KE6BVH The Lady in the Lake." - ?
I forget, is that a Kennedy family reference?
(And can you spell "Chappaquiddick" without looking at how I spelled
it just now?)
Paul Dormer
<b52d82f5-a4bd-4666...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc. () wrote:
>
> (And can you spell "Chappaquiddick" without looking at how I spelled
> it just now?)
There was a much loved sitcom in the eighties called Brass, about a
Yorkshire mill owner and his family and workers, set in the thirties and
forties. One episode, set in WWII, involved a reception for the US
ambassador and one of the characters finds himself sitting next to the
ambassador's young son. At this point, the character sees a friend
called Richard from whom he wishes to borrow some money.
"You wouldn't like to lend a chap a quid, Dick?" he asks.
Ken from Chicago
"Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.or�g"
news:b18c477f-fb1d-4b8a...@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 23, 2:30 am, "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1b_nos...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> "Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>
> news:6s9vd5p6j2iu2qkej...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:51:05 -0400, Thanatos <atro...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >>In article
> >><e74b2fab-47a3-45fc-9e4d-26f1d8df5...@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I would not want to live in Star Trek Federation because, frankly, it
> >>> looks too good to be true. IMO the only way the society can function
> >>> as depicted is with very thorough suppression of all dissent.
>
> >>But life is so wonderful in the Federation, there is no dissent to
> >>suppress!
>
> > Written SF has lots off utopias that ignore human nature. Star Trek
> > has a lot of that nature.
>
> > Anybody have a Twilight Zone episode that would be good in this
> > thread?
>
> None, they are prone to a nasty surprise ending.
>
> Altho the "Kick the Can" one might be nice--but backwards technologically.
~Nothing wrong with that... How about "It's a Good Life"? Providing
~you get to be one particular character, of course.
Too much pressure to run everything and everyone. You can't even trust your
so-called friends.
-- Ken from Chicago
FoggyTown
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> or scifi fantasy
> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
WestWorld - but without the computer virus!
Karl Johanson
> Ilya2 <il...@rcn.com> wrote:
>> The idea of physical immortality as a good and positive thing,
>> without any Faustian bargains, is still too radical for American
>> movie audience. (Or at least for movie executives.)
>
> I've long viewed it as following the fantasy/science fiction divide.
> In fantasy, immortality is always a bad thing. In science fiction
> it's almost always good, though there may be undesirable side effects.
Do you have some examples?
Karl Johanson
Howard S Shubs
<3076e91d-efb2-421b...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Trevor <trevor....@joinme.com> wrote:
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> or scifi fantasy
> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
Has to be film or TV, not books? Hm, that's rough. Maybe Babylon 5, if
I could be a Psycop.
Oh wait, you did allow books. Much easier. I'd like to go to Barrayar
and SOME other planets (Beta!) in the Vorkoverse. I'd like to check out
Challion while I'm at it too, for a little while. Most of all, I'd like
to meet Manny and Lazarus Long! Oh yes. I'd be interested in meeting
Calahan and visiting his Place, though I'd probably not stay long.
I could see visiting a number of sf stories from alt.sex as well, oh
definitely!
--
Don't bother with piddly crap like "gun control".
Life is 100% fatal. Ban it.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article
> <3076e91d-efb2-421b...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> Trevor <trevor....@joinme.com> wrote:
>
>> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
>> or scifi fantasy
>> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
>> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
> Has to be film or TV, not books? Hm, that's rough. Maybe Babylon 5, if
> I could be a Psycop.
>
You would want to be a Psicop? Given the state of the Psi Corps, this
means you either want to be a conscienceless mind-controlling bastard, a
clueless innocent being USED by mind-controlling bastards, or a
desperate soul who'd like nothing better than to get OUT of the Corps,
except there IS no way out.
Babylon 5 would be interesting to visit, but I'd want a guarantee of
returning intact (mind and body). Or else get to borrow the powers of a
Vorlon for the duration. (I don't want to BE a Vorlon. The mysterious
answering I can handle, but most of them seemed to be total dicks)
Howard S Shubs
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> You would want to be a Psicop? Given the state of the Psi Corps, this
> means you either want to be a conscienceless mind-controlling bastard,
That the idea, yep!
> a clueless innocent being USED by mind-controlling bastards, or a
> desperate soul who'd like nothing better than to get OUT of the
> Corps, except there IS no way out.
*I* think Straczyski told a biased story when he talked about the
Psycorp. Equal time is needed!!!11!!eleven
> Babylon 5 would be interesting to visit, but I'd want a guarantee of
> returning intact (mind and body). Or else get to borrow the powers of a
> Vorlon for the duration. (I don't want to BE a Vorlon. The mysterious
> answering I can handle, but most of them seemed to be total dicks)
You can't be sure of that in any universe, even ours. Granted, some are
worse than others, so if I go to B5, I want to be a Psicop 'cause
they're on top. If I go to the Vorkoverse, I do NOT want to visit
Jackson's Hole, for instance. And the Arisia/Bosconian universe is
right out. So is any place Lovecraft wrote about.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <hc1gaf$u3a$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> You would want to be a Psicop? Given the state of the Psi Corps, this
>> means you either want to be a conscienceless mind-controlling bastard,
>
> That the idea, yep!
I'll make sure to have an airlock open for you at the appropriate time,
then.
>
>> a clueless innocent being USED by mind-controlling bastards, or a
>> desperate soul who'd like nothing better than to get OUT of the
>> Corps, except there IS no way out.
>
> *I* think Straczyski told a biased story when he talked about the
> Psycorp. Equal time is needed!!!11!!eleven
The Corps is a Mother.
>
>
>> Babylon 5 would be interesting to visit, but I'd want a guarantee of
>> returning intact (mind and body). Or else get to borrow the powers of a
>> Vorlon for the duration. (I don't want to BE a Vorlon. The mysterious
>> answering I can handle, but most of them seemed to be total dicks)
>
> You can't be sure of that in any universe, even ours.
No, but if I'm going to some other universe, I want guarantees. Here,
well, I didn't get the opportunity to demand the proper warranty.
Granted, some are
> worse than others, so if I go to B5, I want to be a Psicop 'cause
> they're on top.
Um... not so much. They WANT to be on top, but sometimes they get their
butts whipped. Bester only lived because his opposition made the (I
think sometimes incorrect) judgment that he'd be *just barely* more
useful alive than dead.
If I go to the Vorkoverse, I do NOT want to visit
> Jackson's Hole, for instance. And the Arisia/Bosconian universe is
> right out.
Actually, for the vast majority of the people in Civilization life was
very good and comfortable. We just get to watch the most "exciting" bits
in the books. Remember how very little of Civilization's GNP was devoted
to the war effort; for most people, most of the time, the War was far
away and not terribly important on their day-to-day lives.
If I was going to see any of the "exciting" bits, well, I want
assurance that my mind is of at least the Third Stage of development, so
that minor inconveniences like the planet I'm on blowing up will not
seriously impede me.
> So is any place Lovecraft wrote about.
>
Certainly as long as it keeps operating under the Rule of Gloom, yeah.
Will in New Haven
> In article
> <3076e91d-efb2-421b-b90a-90d5d459a...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Trevor <trevor.ander...@joinme.com> wrote:
> > If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> > or scifi fantasy
> > universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> > to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
> Has to be film or TV, not books? Hm, that's rough. Maybe Babylon 5, if
> I could be a Psycop.
>
> Oh wait, you did allow books. Much easier.
I didn't see him do that. But I was going to ignore his dictate and
name some places found in the books eventually. Might as well be now.
I don't subscribe to the idea that I should prefer, among the places
of great adventure and danger that I like to read about, a place of
relative safety and comfort. Secondly, I am going to assume that the
odds may be against me but that I will be the equivalent of myself
when I was young and active. In my current situation, I ain't going
anywhere.
I think Lankhmar would be fine and Adrilankha would be even better;
the best restaurant in the worlds makes that a great choice. Star's
court, from _Glory Road_ sounds pretty good, although Oscar eventually
found it dull. Beta Colony would be interesting. If I hung out in the
Shire, at least I could feel tall.
--
Will in New Haven
Mac Breck
> Howard S Shubs wrote:
>> In article
>> <3076e91d-efb2-421b...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>> Trevor <trevor....@joinme.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi
>>> and/ or scifi fantasy
>>> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
>>> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>>
>> Has to be film or TV, not books? Hm, that's rough. Maybe Babylon
>> 5, if I could be a Psycop.
>>
>
> You would want to be a Psicop? Given the state of the Psi Corps, this
> means you either want to be a conscienceless mind-controlling
> bastard, a clueless innocent being USED by mind-controlling bastards,
> or a desperate soul who'd like nothing better than to get OUT of the
> Corps, except there IS no way out.
>
> Babylon 5 would be interesting to visit, but I'd want a guarantee of
> returning intact (mind and body). Or else get to borrow the powers of
> a Vorlon for the duration. (I don't want to BE a Vorlon.
No, BE a Vorlon along the lines of Kosh Naranek. ;-)
>The
> mysterious answering I can handle, but most of them seemed to be
> total dicks)
Kosh Naranek wasn't.
--
Mac Breck ( *KoshN* )
-------------------------------
"Babylon 5: Crusade" (1999) - "War Zone"
Galen (to Gideon): "I've been penalized before for helping other
people. I've been trying to decide whether or not I should risk it
again."
Howard S Shubs
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> I'll make sure to have an airlock open for you at the appropriate
> time, then.
But since I'll know, and as you say, the Corp is Mother/Father, even if
you're too far away from me, someone ELSE will know, you're likely to go
out it yourself. So sad. :-D
> > You can't be sure of that in any universe, even ours.
>
> No, but if I'm going to some other universe, I want guarantees. Here,
> well, I didn't get the opportunity to demand the proper warranty.
Better pick an appropriate part in that universe, then. Being an
underling for the wrong Baron on Jackson's Hole won't get you a very fun
trip.
> Um... not so much. They WANT to be on top, but sometimes they get their
> butts whipped. Bester only lived because his opposition made the (I
> think sometimes incorrect) judgment that he'd be *just barely* more
> useful alive than dead.
They just want you to think that. Any group actually on top is less
scary if you think *you're* really on top. :-) Just ask the US
government. :-| Anyway, which ep was THAT in? Keep in mind that he
can take over the mind of anyone nearby, so it's kinda hard to say that
Sheridan ever had the upper hand in a physical way. If Bester had ever
actually wanted Sheridan to walk out an airlock, Sheridan would've been
toast, flash-frozen, and freeze-dried. And no one would've remembered
Bester had been aboard.
> Actually, for the vast majority of the people in Civilization life was
> very good and comfortable. We just get to watch the most "exciting" bits
> in the books. Remember how very little of Civilization's GNP was devoted
> to the war effort; for most people, most of the time, the War was far
> away and not terribly important on their day-to-day lives.
I don't know anything about the Civilization games. I made very
specific references. In the middle ages, most people were surfs, end of
story. They didn't get any option for upward mobility. In the USA,
most people are wage slaves to their creditors. Not much has changed.
> If I was going to see any of the "exciting" bits, well, I want
> assurance that my mind is of at least the Third Stage of development, so
> that minor inconveniences like the planet I'm on blowing up will not
> seriously impede me.
Then you better stick to the books/videos in *this* world. The
authors/writers tell us about the interesting (in the Chinese sense)
bits. By far, most of any world/universe is gonna be mundane. If you
want to watch Miles Vorkosigan go through his "interesting" times,
you're most likely going to have to be either a grunt in the close
vicinity (with the appropriate hazards), or some kind of ghost in the
works who can't interact in any way, and we've already got that last bit
as readers. Even if you manage to be in the close vicinity of such a
major character, you have to accept that the author/writer tunes the
story to make what *could* seem boring much less so.
Written from another angle of view, MV is not so much fun. Would you
like to follow him through most of his classes? How about from the POV
of an Impsec analyst cooped up in their main building for years? Or
even from the POV of Gregor, his emperor? Telling that shit in a way to
make it *readable* let alone *interesting* is fucking difficult!
Or everyone would do it. And Lois would write faster. :-D Write, Lois,
write!
(cutting back on the cross-posts)
Howard S Shubs
<74af6865-ce2a-47ff...@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 1:17�am, Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <3076e91d-efb2-421b-b90a-90d5d459a...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > �Trevor <trevor.ander...@joinme.com> wrote:
> > > If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> > > or scifi fantasy
> > > universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> > > to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
> > Oh wait, you did allow books. �Much easier.
>
> I didn't see him do that.
He also said "or scifi fantasy universe" without specifying a medium.
> But I was going to ignore his dictate and name some places found in
> the books eventually. Might as well be now. I don't subscribe to the
> idea that I should prefer, among the places of great adventure and
> danger that I like to read about, a place of relative safety and
> comfort. Secondly, I am going to assume that the odds may be against
> me but that I will be the equivalent of myself when I was young and
> active. In my current situation, I ain't going anywhere.
Suddenly, you find yourself chained up in the dungeons of Barad-d�r.
Now what? I hope you have a way out!
> I think Lankhmar would be fine and Adrilankha would be even better;
> the best restaurant in the worlds makes that a great choice. Star's
> court, from _Glory Road_ sounds pretty good, although Oscar eventually
> found it dull. Beta Colony would be interesting. If I hung out in the
> Shire, at least I could feel tall.
...unless you were cast in a relevant part. If you're a tourist (carted
'round in buses and drinking Watneys Red Barrel) you might not see as
much.
(cutting back on the cross-posts)
--
Mac Breck
> In article <hc1r5n$ofl$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll make sure to have an airlock open for you at the appropriate
>> time, then.
>
> But since I'll know, and as you say, the Corp is Mother/Father, even
> if you're too far away from me, someone ELSE will know, you're likely
> to go out it yourself. So sad. :-D
....unless a certain Vorlon convinces the PsiCop that the door is not an
airlock at all, and then the PsiCop walks willingly out the airlock. ;-)
>> Um... not so much. They WANT to be on top, but sometimes they get
>> their butts whipped. Bester only lived because his opposition made
>> the (I think sometimes incorrect) judgment that he'd be *just
>> barely* more useful alive than dead.
>
> They just want you to think that. Any group actually on top is less
> scary if you think *you're* really on top. :-) Just ask the US
> government. :-| Anyway, which ep was THAT in? Keep in mind that he
> can take over the mind of anyone nearby,
...except a Vorlon, or anyone protected by a Vorlon or Lyta. Remember
when Bester, Lyta, Sheridan and Sheridan's inner circle were at the
conference table, Bester tried to scan everybody, and Lyta mentally
knocked him right back on his heels?
--
Mac Breck (KoshN)
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Howard S Shubs wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <3076e91d-efb2-421b...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Trevor <trevor....@joinme.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi
>>>> and/ or scifi fantasy
>>>> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
>>>> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>>> Has to be film or TV, not books? Hm, that's rough. Maybe Babylon
>>> 5, if I could be a Psycop.
>>>
>> You would want to be a Psicop? Given the state of the Psi Corps, this
>> means you either want to be a conscienceless mind-controlling
>> bastard, a clueless innocent being USED by mind-controlling bastards,
>> or a desperate soul who'd like nothing better than to get OUT of the
>> Corps, except there IS no way out.
>>
>> Babylon 5 would be interesting to visit, but I'd want a guarantee of
>> returning intact (mind and body). Or else get to borrow the powers of
>> a Vorlon for the duration. (I don't want to BE a Vorlon.
>
> No, BE a Vorlon along the lines of Kosh Naranek. ;-)
Well, he seemed to be unique. And I wouldn't want to take Kosh's place.
He was cool.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <hc1r5n$ofl$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll make sure to have an airlock open for you at the appropriate
>> time, then.
>
> But since I'll know, and as you say, the Corp is Mother/Father, even if
> you're too far away from me, someone ELSE will know, you're likely to go
> out it yourself. So sad. :-D
Ahh, youth. You make the assumption that your simple telepathy would be
effective against a mind stable at the second level of stress or greater.
And I said "The Corps is A Mother", a rather different meaning.
>
>
>>> You can't be sure of that in any universe, even ours.
>> No, but if I'm going to some other universe, I want guarantees. Here,
>> well, I didn't get the opportunity to demand the proper warranty.
>
> Better pick an appropriate part in that universe, then. Being an
> underling for the wrong Baron on Jackson's Hole won't get you a very fun
> trip.
>
>
>> Um... not so much. They WANT to be on top, but sometimes they get their
>> butts whipped. Bester only lived because his opposition made the (I
>> think sometimes incorrect) judgment that he'd be *just barely* more
>> useful alive than dead.
>
> They just want you to think that. Any group actually on top is less
> scary if you think *you're* really on top. :-) Just ask the US
> government. :-| Anyway, which ep was THAT in? Keep in mind that he
> can take over the mind of anyone nearby, so it's kinda hard to say that
> Sheridan ever had the upper hand in a physical way. If Bester had ever
> actually wanted Sheridan to walk out an airlock, Sheridan would've been
> toast, flash-frozen, and freeze-dried. And no one would've remembered
> Bester had been aboard.
>
He can't affect those that he can't see. Line of sight. Remote death is
easily arranged; Garibaldi could have killed him several times.
B5 psionics is actually rather limited compared to many others. Bester
VS Telzey Amberdon would not end well for Bester, for instance.
>
>> Actually, for the vast majority of the people in Civilization life was
>> very good and comfortable. We just get to watch the most "exciting" bits
>> in the books. Remember how very little of Civilization's GNP was devoted
>> to the war effort; for most people, most of the time, the War was far
>> away and not terribly important on their day-to-day lives.
>
> I don't know anything about the Civilization games.
Civilization is the Lensman Universe's "good guys" side.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Howard S Shubs wrote:
>> In article <hc1r5n$ofl$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll make sure to have an airlock open for you at the appropriate
>>> time, then.
>> But since I'll know, and as you say, the Corp is Mother/Father, even
>> if you're too far away from me, someone ELSE will know, you're likely
>> to go out it yourself. So sad. :-D
>
> ....unless a certain Vorlon convinces the PsiCop that the door is not an
> airlock at all, and then the PsiCop walks willingly out the airlock. ;-)
>
>
>>> Um... not so much. They WANT to be on top, but sometimes they get
>>> their butts whipped. Bester only lived because his opposition made
>>> the (I think sometimes incorrect) judgment that he'd be *just
>>> barely* more useful alive than dead.
>> They just want you to think that. Any group actually on top is less
>> scary if you think *you're* really on top. :-) Just ask the US
>> government. :-| Anyway, which ep was THAT in? Keep in mind that he
>> can take over the mind of anyone nearby,
>
> ...except a Vorlon, or anyone protected by a Vorlon or Lyta. Remember
> when Bester, Lyta, Sheridan and Sheridan's inner circle were at the
> conference table, Bester tried to scan everybody, and Lyta mentally
> knocked him right back on his heels?
>
I suspect that Bester would be unwise to screw around with Elric, either.
Mac Breck
...or Galen circa 2260.... [SPOILERS for The Passing of the Technomages]
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
....as buildings on Thenothk (destroyed by Galen from low orbit), Anna
Sheridan's Shadow Battlecrab, Tilar, Elizar, Razeel, and *many* Drakh
and Shadow Sentients found out. The Spell of Destruction can *really*
ruin your day.
darwinist
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> or scifi fantasy
> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
I'd have choose luxury over excitement. Banks' "Culture" would be
tempting, or some city that's safe in the heart of the Federation of
Planets.
We never see much of the internal workings of the federation. It's all
contact and conlict with other cultures.
Maybe it's really a horrible dystopia on the inside and the star-trek
series are just military propaganda aimed at the cardassians,
romuluns, etc to get them to surrender and join the federation.
Will in New Haven
> On Oct 21, 7:39 pm, Trevor <trevor.ander...@joinme.com> wrote:
>
> > If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> > or scifi fantasy
> > universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> > to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
> I'd have choose luxury over excitement.
I think most of us are choosing that but I wonder at this. Most of us
in the modern western world _have_ by any reasonable standards,
luxury. We have, most of us, a fair amount of safety. Why bother going
to an SF environment just for that? Or rather, why choose one
primarily for that? Obviously, "luxury" could include longevity and a
return to youth but I don't think of showing up in Lankhmar or in the
Qeng Ho fleet around the OnOff Star as an old man anyway.
I _read_ the books I read for the adventure and the people and the
different locales, not in order to find a retirement home. So I take
the same approach to this question. Although an occasional meal at
Valabar's was an influence in one of my choices.
--
Will in New Haven
David DeLaney
>> But since I'll know, and as you say, the Corp is Mother/Father, even if
>> you're too far away from me, someone ELSE will know, you're likely to go
>> out it yourself. So sad. :-D
>
> Ahh, youth. You make the assumption that your simple telepathy would be
>effective against a mind stable at the second level of stress or greater.
So clearly I cannot choose the airlock in front of _you_!
> And I said "The Corps is A Mother", a rather different meaning.
The Shadow is mother
the Shadow is death
the Shadow falls forever
on the children of darkness
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>> Secondly, I am going to assume that the odds may be against
>> me but that I will be the equivalent of myself when I was young and
>> active. In my current situation, I ain't going anywhere.
>
>Suddenly, you find yourself chained up in the dungeons of Barad-d�r.
>Now what? I hope you have a way out!
Why ... I think ... I'll _SING!_
Dave "Stop that! stop that!" DeLaney
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> or scifi fantasy
> universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
Did anyone propose _Tron_ yet? You live in a computer and you get to
play video games for a living.
In more papery science fiction, _The Annals of the Heechee_, if that's
the correct title.
Howard Brazee
pleasant.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> Howard S Shubs wrote:
>>> But since I'll know, and as you say, the Corp is Mother/Father, even if
>>> you're too far away from me, someone ELSE will know, you're likely to go
>>> out it yourself. So sad. :-D
>> Ahh, youth. You make the assumption that your simple telepathy would be
>> effective against a mind stable at the second level of stress or greater.
>
> So clearly I cannot choose the airlock in front of _you_!
Don't make one of the classic blunders!
>
>> And I said "The Corps is A Mother", a rather different meaning.
>
> The Shadow is mother
> the Shadow is death
> the Shadow falls forever
> on the children of darkness
>
The Shadow knows....
(PsiCop VS The Shadow...)
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
>>> Secondly, I am going to assume that the odds may be against
>>> me but that I will be the equivalent of myself when I was young and
>>> active. In my current situation, I ain't going anywhere.
>> Suddenly, you find yourself chained up in the dungeons of Barad-d�r.
>> Now what? I hope you have a way out!
>
> Why ... I think ... I'll _SING!_
>
> Dave "Stop that! stop that!" DeLaney
"I love you... you love me..."
Keith F. Lynch
> We never see much of the internal workings of the federation.
> It's all contact and conlict with other cultures.
> Maybe it's really a horrible dystopia on the inside and the
> star-trek series are just military propaganda aimed at the
> cardassians, romuluns, etc to get them to surrender and join
> the federation.
I've heard it suggested that Star Trek is the future of an alternate
history in which the Soviet Union won the Cold War.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Keith F. Lynch
>> divide. In fantasy, immortality is always a bad thing. In science
>> fiction it's almost always good, though there may be undesirable
>> side effects.
> Do you have some examples?
Immortality is depicted as good in several works of Greg Egan, Stephen
Baxter, Fred Pohl, Charlie Stross, S.M. Stirling, James Hogan, and
numerous other SF authors. (Okay, the immortal I'm thinking of in
Stirling's _Drakon_ was thoroughly evil, but her immortality was good
for *her*, though not for the rest of us.)
Immortality is depicted as bad for the immortal in traditional
fantasies, whose moral seems to be that we should be thankful we're
not immortal. It's also depicted as bad in Tolkien and in Swift's
_Gulliver's Travels_.
Anim8rFSK
<cbd6cc54-1da2-400a...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.or�g
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> Trevor wrote:
> > If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> > or scifi fantasy
> > universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> > to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
> Did anyone propose _Tron_ yet? You live in a computer and you get to
> play video games for a living.
with Lacy Underall.
>
> In more papery science fiction, _The Annals of the Heechee_, if that's
> the correct title.
--
Stargate Universe SGU: It puts the "U" in "SUCKS"!
It's the show 'Defiling Gravity' would be if DG had more regulars,
fewer abortions, worse writers, and no budget for lighting.
Remember, you can't spell "disgust" without SGU!
David Goldfarb
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>Immortality is depicted as good in several works of Greg Egan, Stephen
>Baxter, Fred Pohl, Charlie Stross, S.M. Stirling, James Hogan, and
>numerous other SF authors. (Okay, the immortal I'm thinking of in
>Stirling's _Drakon_ was thoroughly evil, but her immortality was good
>for *her*, though not for the rest of us.)
It's depicted as bad in at least one episode of _Doctor Who_, but
it could be argued that that's fantasy with SF trappings.
>Immortality is depicted as bad for the immortal in traditional
>fantasies, whose moral seems to be that we should be thankful we're
>not immortal. It's also depicted as bad in Tolkien and in Swift's
>_Gulliver's Travels_.
How is it depicted as bad in Tolkien? It's bad for humans, because
we're made by God to be mortal, but it's natural and good for elves
and angels.
--
David Goldfarb |"It doesn't matter. Don't you see? Nothing matters!"
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Fredric Brown, "Come and Go Mad"
Howard S Shubs
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Ahh, youth. You make the assumption that your simple telepathy would be
> effective against a mind stable at the second level of stress or greater.
>
> And I said "The Corps is A Mother", a rather different meaning.
I took the liberty of fixing your error. Simple telepathy is not what a
Psycop has. They can do more.
> He can't affect those that he can't see. Line of sight. Remote death is
> easily arranged; Garibaldi could have killed him several times.
Are You Sure? :-D
> Civilization is the Lensman Universe's "good guys" side.
<shrug> Haven't finished that series.
Howard S Shubs
"Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ....unless a certain Vorlon convinces the PsiCop that the door is not an
> airlock at all, and then the PsiCop walks willingly out the airlock. ;-)
I can't argue with that, especially since the Vorlons gave that ability
to Humans in the first place. But he said he didn't want to be a
Vorlon. :-)
> ...except a Vorlon, or anyone protected by a Vorlon or Lyta. Remember
> when Bester, Lyta, Sheridan and Sheridan's inner circle were at the
> conference table, Bester tried to scan everybody, and Lyta mentally
> knocked him right back on his heels?
What I said above about Vorlons holds in this case. Lyta was
specifically boosted.
Howard S Shubs
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
> Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
> >> Secondly, I am going to assume that the odds may be against
> >> me but that I will be the equivalent of myself when I was young and
> >> active. In my current situation, I ain't going anywhere.
> >
> >Suddenly, you find yourself chained up in the dungeons of Barad-d�r.
> >Now what? I hope you have a way out!
>
> Why ... I think ... I'll _SING!_
nooooooooo!
Howard S Shubs
"Mac Breck" <macthe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No, BE a Vorlon along the lines of Kosh Naranek. ;-)
What, the *one* Vorlon who got killed, you mean? Try again? :-D
Howard S Shubs
<cbd6cc54-1da2-400a...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.or�g
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> Did anyone propose _Tron_ yet? You live in a computer and you get to
> play video games for a living.
Have you seen the trailer for Tron 2 yet? I don't think that's a nice
place either.
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> In article <5MmdnV71vpSvGHnXnZ2dnUVZ_omdn...@supernews.com>,
> "Mac Breck" <macthevor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > No, BE a Vorlon along the lines of Kosh Naranek. ;-)
>
> What, the *one* Vorlon who got killed, you mean? Try again? :-D
Would you rather that or have John Sheridan get mad at your entire
species?
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
> Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-orig...@moderators.isc.org
>
> <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> > Did anyone propose _Tron_ yet? You live in a computer and you get to
> > play video games for a living.
>
> Have you seen the trailer for Tron 2 yet? I don't think that's a nice
> place either.
Yeah, but 21-27 good-time years later!
Also by the end of the first movie, you found out about sex! (Well,
kissing, but you have 20-some years to work out what comes next!)
Wait though... are you also up against Bruce Boxleitner? Or /are/ you
Bruce Boxleitner? If the first, see preceding post.
PV
>If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
>or scifi fantasy
>universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
>to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
Tertius. I hear they're open to visitors from other universes, and you
can't beat the health care. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
Tim McDaniel
David Goldfarb <gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <hc330t$2jp$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>Immortality is depicted as bad for the immortal in traditional
>>fantasies, whose moral seems to be that we should be thankful we're
>>not immortal. It's also depicted as bad in Tolkien and in Swift's
>>_Gulliver's Travels_.
>
>How is it depicted as bad in Tolkien? It's bad for humans, because
>we're made by God to be mortal, but it's natural and good for elves
>and angels.
It's shown as bad for humans when Numenorians (and ring-bearers, I
guess) began to lust after longer life, leaving life when witless and
decrepit, making temples of tombs, and eventually being a factor
driving the invasion of Valinor.
It's shown as bad for elves because they were bound to the circles of
the Earth whether they wanted it or not. Only one Elf wearied so much
of life that she was apparently able to die. Even if you were killed
or committed suicide, you would wander the Halls of Mandos, which
probably wasn't so pleasant, and then (with the exception of Feanor)
would be reborn as an Elf. (A worse factor was that they were REALLY
tied to the circles of the Earth. It had been promised that the
humans would be in the chorus of Illuvatar after the end of the world,
but no such promise had been given the Elves -- so, for millennia, the
Elves knew that there would be a prophesied end of the world, and knew
that there was no guarantee that they would survive it. They might be
mostly been wishing for non-existance when it comes.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Dorothy J Heydt
Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <Ks3vA...@kithrup.com>,
>David Goldfarb <gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>In article <hc330t$2jp$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>>Immortality is depicted as bad for the immortal in traditional
>>>fantasies, whose moral seems to be that we should be thankful we're
>>>not immortal. It's also depicted as bad in Tolkien and in Swift's
>>>_Gulliver's Travels_.
>>
>>How is it depicted as bad in Tolkien? It's bad for humans, because
>>we're made by God to be mortal, but it's natural and good for elves
>>and angels.
And yet (grass greener on other side of fence phenomenon) humans
are haunted by tales of the Escape from Death, and elves by tales
of Escape from Deathlessness.
>
>It's shown as bad for humans when Numenorians (and ring-bearers, I
>guess) began to lust after longer life, leaving life when witless and
>decrepit, making temples of tombs, and eventually being a factor
>driving the invasion of Valinor.
>
>It's shown as bad for elves because they were bound to the circles of
>the Earth whether they wanted it or not. Only one Elf wearied so much
>of life that she was apparently able to die.
If you're talking about Luthien, she chose to be mortal so that
she could go with Beren, wherever he went.
Even if you were killed
>or committed suicide, you would wander the Halls of Mandos, which
>probably wasn't so pleasant,
Where do you get that? It's a place of rest. It might annoy you
to be there if you wanted to be out and doing, but not otherwise.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Kay Shapero
sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com says...
> David DeLaney wrote:
> > Howard S Shubs <how...@shubs.net> wrote:
> >>> Secondly, I am going to assume that the odds may be against
> >>> me but that I will be the equivalent of myself when I was young and
> >>> active. In my current situation, I ain't going anywhere.
> >> Suddenly, you find yourself chained up in the dungeons of Barad-d�r.
> >> Now what? I hope you have a way out!
> >
> > Why ... I think ... I'll _SING!_
> >
> > Dave "Stop that! stop that!" DeLaney
>
> "I love you... you love me..."
>
>
>
Orcs pick THAT up as a marching song... and the Nazgul join in... and
ulmately, Sauron himself finds himself singing along....
--
Kay Shapero
address munged, email kay at following domain
http://www.kayshapero.net
Tim McDaniel
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <hc543m$scj$2...@reader1.panix.com>,
>Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
>>It's shown as bad for elves because they were bound to the circles
>>of the Earth whether they wanted it or not. Only one Elf wearied so
>>much of life that she was apparently able to die.
>
>If you're talking about Luthien, she chose to be mortal so that
>she could go with Beren, wherever he went.
Help me, Encyclopedia of Arda ... M{i'}riel Serind{e:}, mother of
F{e:}anor, <http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/miriel.html>
At least I don't think she was ever reborn: I think she just laid
herself down to sleep in L{o'}rien and never woke up.
>>Even if you were killed or committed suicide, you would wander the
>>Halls of Mandos, which probably wasn't so pleasant,
>
>Where do you get that? It's a place of rest. It might annoy you
>to be there if you wanted to be out and doing, but not otherwise.
<http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/hallsofmandos.html> says "The name
comes from two Elvish words meaning 'prison' and 'fortress'".
<http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/hallsofwaiting.html> says "This gift
[of rebirth] was withheld from some, and their spirits will remain
within Mandos' Halls while the World lasts: F{e:}anor was one of
these." I don't know who the others are.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com
Howard S Shubs
<c0fd2df6-79fb-4965...@z29g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.or�g
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> Would you rather that or have John Sheridan get mad at your entire
> species?
Oh, I'm so threatened. The "broccoli" scene was always bullshit.
Howard S Shubs
<b5dbc796-bdd1-4b54...@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-o...@moderators.isc.or�g
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> Wait though... are you also up against Bruce Boxleitner? Or /are/ you
> Bruce Boxleitner? If the first, see preceding post.
If I'm Bruce Boxleitner, I'd much rather go with Tracy Scoggins, thanks.
Howard S Shubs
pv+u...@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
> Tertius. I hear they're open to visitors from other universes, and you
> can't beat the health care. *
Keep in mind what you pay for the healthcare, and how fast they say they
pay off end-of-life benefits. RAH was very clear on that one.
darwinist
<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 6:16 pm, darwinist <darwin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 21, 7:39 pm, Trevor <trevor.ander...@joinme.com> wrote:
>
> > > If it was possible for you to go anywhere in the film or TV sci-fi and/
> > > or scifi fantasy
> > > universe that you love and greatly admire, where would you most like
> > > to go and please say why, for anywhere named.
>
>
> I think most of us are choosing that but I wonder at this. Most of us
> in the modern western world _have_ by any reasonable standards,
> luxury. We have, most of us, a fair amount of safety. Why bother going
> to an SF environment just for that? Or rather, why choose one
> primarily for that? Obviously, "luxury" could include longevity and a
> return to youth but I don't think of showing up in Lankhmar or in the
> Qeng Ho fleet around the OnOff Star as an old man anyway.
>
> I _read_ the books I read for the adventure and the people and the
> different locales, not in order to find a retirement home. So I take
> the same approach to this question. Although an occasional meal at
> Valabar's was an influence in one of my choices.
That's interesting as I feel the opposite way. Most of the places I
enjoy observing the most in fiction are places I would least like to
live (although it might be nice to visit if I could be reasonably
confident of safety). Dangerous nests of vipers filled with spies,
treason, violence, organised crime, etc, floating through space or out
in some random corner of it.
Similarly in tv series: "Deadwood", the mean streets of Baltimore (in
"The Wire"), the island in "Lost". I would be reluctant to move to
these places.
Deep Space Nine, I would seriously consider. Most of the danger is of
no concern to the normal inhabitants. You have to be a mysterious
visitor, spy or military official to get in trouble. In fact I think
living there would be safer than visiting, somehow.
> --
> Will in New Haven
>
> Banks' "Culture" would be
>
> > tempting, or some city that's safe in the heart of the Federation of
> > Planets.
Will in New Haven
One place I left off, which is odd because it is my first choice, is
Bordertown. Compared to some I would like, it is less hazardous. It
reminds me of some areas of New Haven in the Seventies and early
Eighties, although not as wierd. Lots of great music and the
possibility of something exotic around every corner. Of course, that
aspect of life in a big city is still around but I'm old.
Chicago in John M. Ford's _The Last Hot Time_ is another 'interesting'
place with only a somewhat increased hazard level. I need to see the
next book after _Territory_ before I decide if Emma Bull's Tombstone
would be interesting.